April 28, 2025 • 41 mins
Read’s second trial for the murder of her boyfriend, former police officer John O’Keefe, began last week. Monday, a Cellebrite digital intelligence expert, Ian Whiffen, took the stand and testified that John O’Keefe’s phone stopped moving after he was dropped off at the Albert’s Canton home, that at “12:32 a.m., the device was unlocked and locked a final time, and there was no more activity on the phone until shortly after 6 a.m.” Whiffen went on to say that the temperature of O’Keefe’s phone battery dropped steadily throughout the night. We discussed the latest from the trial and how today’s testimony might impact the defense's argument.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody. Before we get back to
our topics, I just want to thank everyone who joined
us yesterday at the Neiroli Restaurant in Westwood. We had
a big crowd. A lot of people were there from
all over our Nightside audience in different different states. There
(00:29):
were one hundred and seventy eight people who made reservations
and I think most, if not all, showed up. We
had two seatings, one at noon and one at twelve thirty.
I want to thank Joanna Douglas from the Neiroli Restaurant,
and most of all, I want to thank the Winnaker
(00:49):
Band Bo and Bill Winnaker, as well as Cindy Gail
their song their Chantous I guess would be the way
their singer Neil Green on the piano, and also doctor
Dan Carp, a Bostonian by birth who graduated from Boston
Land School in nineteen sixty five and has had an
(01:11):
amazing career as an oncologist. He was there. He played
the piano a little bit for a little while as well.
There were lots of great people there. I met just
about everybody there spent three hours talking with nightside listeners.
Didn't eat lunch, didn't eat breakfast, didn't eat bunch, whatever
you want to call it, on Sunday between eleven and two.
But had a ball. And I believe that Marita has
(01:33):
posted a bunch of pictures on our Instagram account and
probably on Facebook as well. Check it out for sure.
Thank all of you so much. It has been It's
just was a wonderful day. It was a cold, windy,
late April day, a perfect day to be in a
(01:54):
nice restaurant in Westwood. It recommended highly and it was.
It was really a blast. So I just want to
say thanks to all who showed up, and maybe we'll
do it again, simple as that. All Right, We're talking
right now about the Karen Reid case, the Karen Reid
case that is now being in its sect, its second trial,
(02:17):
it's retrial, and I thought that today the prosecution had
a pretty effective presentation with this one witness, Ian Whitten,
who is a digital intelligence expert, who basically said that
the cell phone of the victim in this case, John O'Keefe,
(02:39):
was in the proximity of the front lawn for the
entirety from the moment that he left that vehicle until
his body was discovered around six o'clock. Left that vehicle
a little after twelve thirty, the vehicle driven by Karen Reid,
and it also there the digital forensics showed his least,
(03:00):
his examination of the cell phone showed that the temperature
of the battery dropped from eighty degrees down to thirty
seven degrees when his body was discovered. Now, make of
that what you want. I found it to be pretty effective. Obviously,
there's a lot of pieces of evidence and testimony that
(03:21):
this story's going to deal with, and who knows where
it ends up. I just think that the prosecution has
had a couple of pretty good days here and has
been more effective at the beginning of this trial than
it was at the beginning of the first trial. My
comments love to hear from you. Where we're going to
(03:41):
go next. Let's go to Mark in Cambridge has held over,
as has Amy and Lakeville and Alex and Millis. We'll
get to all of them, I promise. Let's go to
Mark in Cambridge. Mark your thoughts. If you had a
chance to review today some of the testimony that went
in from this this intel diligence digital intelligence expert.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Thank you, said effect Dan, how are you go?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right ahead? Mark, I feel like I might have surprised
you here. Welcome, welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say, yeah, Hank Gwenny
is good. I mean, I mean he put on a
good demonstration. I mean I didn't follow it one understand.
I know I have TV. I probably was sleeping anyway,
but I was just seeing clip. I'm sorry, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, the point, the point I made last hour, and
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, Mark, is
that I think we have all become conditioned. Even the
skeptics amongst us have said, hey, this forensic evidence thing,
whether it's d n A or you know, digital readings
of devices. Uh, you know, we all are familiar now,
(04:59):
I think with ways and those different items that can
tell you which way to turn in the parking lot
to get to where you want to get to, turn right,
turn left over the street. So I think it would
be and we watch CSI this and CSI that. I
watch Tracker on Sunday nights, which is the way I
(05:19):
end my weekend. So I think all of us have
kind of come to the conclusion Hey, this stuff has
some has some probate value.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Absolutely, I agree with you on that, Yes, it does.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I also want to say that.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
This is what I don't like about. I mean, I
told you this before. You know, I've been watching Karen
read from Eclipse, and she's always smirking and think of
I mean, in my opinion, she thinks it's a joke
because she's smirking and smiling and like it's a big show.
I mean, you know, I don't you know me personally,
I don't like that. I mean, you're facing a manslaughter case.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Someone, you're facing a second in the worst case scenario,
it's a second degree murder case. I mean, that's one
of the countries looking at She's looking at a second
degree murder, which is fifteen years before you're eligible for
parole in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's a long time.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Manslaughter as well as leaving to see of an accident.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And I also think that this is someone who she
at one point had a very you know, personal positive
relationship with and whatever the cause of his death, you
would think it would be something that that that she
might show a little more empathy, is what I'm trying
to say. I mean, certainly the interviews that she did,
(06:39):
the TV interviews that she did between the trials, I
don't think are going to help her with any jury
and that that evidently he's been at.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And also they say the police thinking this the big
cover up this, and I'm not I'm not buying that
theory because no law enforcement, at least the good offices,
no law enforcement office, is going to risk their career,
their houses and everything to plant evidence. I don't. I don't.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I'm not buying that, man. I'm just not buying that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know, well, I'm even taking it one step further
than you, Mark, and that is that if let us
say something happened in that house. If O'Keefe went into
that house and some sort of an argument ensued and
somehow some way someone pushed him or hit him, or
he fell down and he hit his head, and they
realized this guy's dead, well, the first thing to do
(07:26):
would be, I think, to call for e mts and
try to try.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
To help, right exactly right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And then even if they came to the conclusion there's
nothing we can do. He's dead. Do you plant him
on the front lawn? Do you just carry him out
of the house and put him on the front level.
I mean, what are the chances that that as you're carryed,
you know, he's he's you know, carrying him out down
the steps in a snowstorm, some some police cars going
(07:55):
to drive by, or any anyone's going to drive by way?
What are you doing there? Oh, friends, just had a
little bit too much to drink. We're just gonna put
him here at the front lawn to sober him up.
I don't know, Yeah, that's Harry.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, but you know, like I said, Man, I mean
so that judge, Judge Coloney, I don't know, she's just
she geta found guilty. I think I truly believe this
because she thinks even Judge Colony told her, oh you
think this is funny. I remember that, And I tell you.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That was that was a comment that the judge made. Yeah,
and I'm sure that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
He's gonna ha her.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
She's gonna hammer her.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I wouldn't be surprised she'd take him in the customer
right then and there. I tell you she's.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves here, so we'll just
we'll just continue to focus on today. Hey, Mark, appreciate
your call. We'll talk again.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Thank you much, thank you and Goo Celtics.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yes, I think they're doing pretty well. Thanks Mark, touch
you so good night. We got Amy and lake theyll
coming up. The only line that is open in six, seven, nine,
ten thirty. I don't want you to waste your time.
The other lines are full six one, seven, nine, three
one ten thirty. We will if we if we go
to eleven, we will change topics at eleven, I promise.
(09:13):
So you want to get your thoughts in, now's the
time to do it. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You're on night Side with Dan ray onell you Bzy
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Back to the phones we go, going to go to
Amy in Lakeville. Amy, appreciate your patience, Thanks for holding
through the news.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Go right ahead, Amy, no problem, Thank you so much. Dan.
So I want to start off first by saying I'm
a Karen Reed supporter and I don't think that she's
going to be found guilty.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I did not work out in the way today, so
I didn't see the witnesses today, so I'm going to
be watching it tonight. Sure, but I think that once
all the other witnesses, just like in the first trial
go through. I think there's a lot of ah situations
that are going to.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Continue to raise the reasonable.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Doubt and they're not gonna be able to convict her,
meaning that you know, the everybody getting rid of their
cell phones, the dog was rehomed, the basement was redone,
So I believe he went into the house and like
a previous caller said, everyone was drinking and they might
have been joking around. There was a lot of jim
(10:25):
equipments there and I think he it was I think
it was a total accident in his head, you know,
sustained a skull fracture, and I think he was kind
of tossed out to the front lawn. And those bites
on his arm or those marks on his arm are
definitely dog bites. I'm a registered in the bergency department.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And give me, let me, let me gently challenge you
want it, okay, just for the fun of it. Uh,
there's a bunch of you know, police or police related
individuals there. You know, police are not dumb by putting
him out of the front lawn. What is accomplished by that?
(11:10):
I mean, did they think like he's going to disappear overnight?
I mean out of sight out of mind.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I don't know, but I think it's also suspect that
there was a retired chief across the street. There was
a retired Boston cop a thirty four fair View. I
think it's odd. I mean, when there's flashing lights on
my street, I'm like, what's going on? I'll look at
and I might go outside. Nobody came outside.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, they weren't flashing lights until.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
The morning, right, well until the morning until six o'clock
from the ambulance.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Right at that point, people came outside. But what I'm
saying is if the people in the house knew that
something horrible had happened, okay, and whether it was you know,
an intentional punch throwne or an in burtened, you know,
a push and a shove and somebody fell down the
flight of stairs and hit their head, which can happen, okay,
(12:03):
would they literally take the chance of, well, let's just
carry him and put him in the front lawn. I
would think that that if police were concerned, they either
would get a story together and say, look, you know,
he slipped and he fell, right, he slipped and fell.
Let's call the police and explain he slipped and fell
(12:25):
he'd been drinking whatever, or they would have taken him
somewhere to the Blue Hills at two o'clock in the
morning and he would have been found when when when
spring came. I don't know. I just I had this
in my mind. I wrestle with and I think to myself,
no matter how drunk people might have been, and I'm
(12:46):
not suggesting they were, but there was some pretty good
suggesting people had been drinking. No matter how drunk people
had been, would have that been the the option? I
don't know, would that?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I think there was also a kind of a contentious
relationship between the HTF agent Higgins and John O'Keeffe, and Higgins,
you know his relationship with Karen and the text. It's
I watched the first trial, almost all of it, you know,
I take it watched when at home. So I think
the witnesses that are going to be coming up, it's
(13:22):
interesting that they put this, this these witnesses out now
because you know that and I know the jury has
been made away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So so let me ask you this, This the the
witness who was on today, This this technical digital forensic expert.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Okay with it?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Did he testifying the first trial? Yes, Okay, And how
did the defense counter his testimony. I assume it was
the same today as it was in the first trial.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I'm trying to think back. It was so long ago.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Okay, Nope, I just didn't know. I found it to
be fairly. I found it to be a credible witness today.
And I also think that the public has now come
to accept the concept of forensics evidence. Forensic evidence, whether
it's you know, blood samples, DNA and that sort of thing,
or you know, digital markings, as I think we was
(14:22):
testifying today that the phone never never moved for that
five and a half hours. It was always pined in
the same location at various points in time. Uh. And
that uh, And that the temperature of the phone, the
battery went from eighty down to thirty seven. That would
have happened now you could you could argue, well, maybe
(14:44):
he he stumbled in and the phone fell out of
his pocket. Okay, I guess you could make that argument,
you know, I guess.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
But John's temperature was steady when he got to good Smaradan. Yeah,
it's very cold.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's pretty cold. So that would say that somebody was
outside for a while.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So is it more likely than not in your mind
that there was some sort of either an accident and
impact or he just got out of the car and
tripped and fell and hit his head and she didn't
see him and she drove off. But the third option
being he went in the house, got beat up, and
they planted him at the lawn, which one of those
is more likely in your mind.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
In my mind, it's the third option, because he suffered
a skull fracture and he had the they're called battle
eyes when you suffer a basil or skull fracture. That's
why his eyes were so swollen, black and blue.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Then you think that this group of police officers inside
the house said we got a great idea, let's put
him in the front lawn. You don't think anybody said, well,
but is that what police officers under pressure would do
with a body with a dead body?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Or the second option that he tripped and he fell,
Maybe he fell hit his head on the curb, and.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
That would be more credible to me. That would be
more credible to me than the idea that somehow, you know,
I would think that if this is just me, Okay,
I haven't covered this trial. So I would think that
if there were five or six police officers or whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
The number was too.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, well police professionals who were there, that they would
have said, look, put him in a car and get
him out of here. Let's kick him up to the
Blue Hills and put him carry him, you know, sixty
yards into the into the brush. And uh, I think,
I don't know, you think that they got you. You
you accept the fact that they just said, put him
(16:49):
on the front lawn. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
You know, maybe they'll say the cloud hit him and
I don't know, we'll see. I also think that the
investigation from the get go was you know, okay, okays, Oh,
I think you're right on.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That go to agree with you that one. That's from
everything that I've read, every oppression I have. Well, look,
thank you. I really do appreciate hearing from you, and
I hope you'll continue to follow this and if at
some point your mind changes, let me know I will.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I'm looking at you every day on the way home
from work. I get out very much.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And you work. You work obviously in the you work
as a.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Emergency in a community hospital.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, thank you. For what you do.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Thank you for thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
And I've seen my share of dog bites and they're
not they're not good.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
All right, thanks so much, talk soon, good bye, Okay,
good night. Here comes the news at the bottom of
the hour. We'll be back the only line right now,
six one, seven thirty, coming right back on Night Shot.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It's Night Side with Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We're getting reaction. We probably would do this at least
once a week, or more often if necessary, when they're
important witnesses. I was taken by the digital forensic testimony today.
Let's see what Alex and Millis has to say. Alex
here next to on Nightside. I hope you had a great
Greek Independence Day yesterday, Alex.
Speaker 7 (18:29):
It was.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
It was awesome. My son marched and we were, you know,
we had a lot of floats and I can my
hat's off to the City of Boston and the Boston police.
They really a couple of the police officers were holding
Greek flags. So that made me like really really, you know,
kind of uh, you know, so proud.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
All right, let's let's talk about the Karen Reid reads
while go ahead.
Speaker 8 (18:51):
Okay, you know what they say if you cannot say
anything nice about a person, don't say anything at all.
But I'm gonna my mother told me, you like that
that rule. Actually, she comes he and reminds me of
remember Pam Smart. She comes across as very arrogant, and
the way she prances or walks, you know, and her attitude.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
I mean, the juris are going to see this because
they look at the body language, don't they. I mean,
I feel bad for the woman, but you know, all
she's known for is you know, a night of heavy
drinking with her police officer boyfriend, you know. And what's
that tell you? You know, is that is that like
being irresponsible? Now she's she was a professional. She was,
(19:35):
you know, an educator or whatever you find now.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
She taught she taught business in college.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Yuh yeah. So if I'm on the jury and and
you know the way she she carries herself, it tells
me that she's kind of insensitive. I don't know, you know,
like you're not You're supposed to look at the facts.
But that's part of it too, you know, the body language.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I will tell you that. The headline in the
Boston Globe tomorrow will be expert testifies in Karen readtrial
that John O'Keefe's phone stopped moving soon after he was
dropped off at Canton home. That's by Travis Anderson's. That
will be their story tomorrow, I think in the globe,
so we'll say, I mean, you know, we can make
judgments and what different people see in demeanor. I just
(20:24):
had the thought I talked about demeanor tonight has nothing
to do with her physical appearance. A demeanor is the
way a person carries themselves, and then you have to
mix in with that some of the television interviews. I
don't understand why her lawyers allowed her to do TV interviews.
(20:45):
It seems to me that maybe they are convinced she's innocent.
You know, I believe there is a quote of public opinion.
I function in that in what I call the quote
of public opinion on behalf of Joseph Body and subsequently
Peter Lamoni, two men who were wrongfully and intentionally convicted
(21:07):
for crime they never had anything to do with. But
a lot of we had a lot of evidence on
that case that we described over time. A lot of
it was.
Speaker 8 (21:17):
With the saphone data. That kind of tells me, well,
you know, maybe he didn't go in the house because
the temperature remained constant on the phone.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You know, Well, the temperature didn't remain constant. The temperature,
that's what I thought. They said, No, No, the temperature
on the phone battery apparently dropped from eighty degrees to
as low as thirty seven degrees at the time that
his body was discovered, and that was that. Those are forensics.
(21:49):
Those are forensics from the phone. Unless the defense can
defeat those forensics, I think those are going to stick
in the mind of the jury. Alex again, glad you
had a great day yesterday. I got to keep rolling here.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Okayet your suits some by the time.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay, thank you much. Let me go to Lola in
San Diego. Lola is a big advocate for the innocence
of Karen Reid. Go right ahead, Lola.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
Well, yeah, hi Dan, So you know we could talk
to the Kyles come home. So it's four different website,
four different pages on Facebook supporting Karen Reid that people
can go look and read and discover what we're all
talking about. So one particular thing, Well, before.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You get to that, I'll give you a chance to
publicize Facebook, But did you get a chance to watch
the forensic testimony that I came in today.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
I did, I did.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
I listened to that gentleman that was on the stands.
So there's all kinds of thing with me.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
What was I'm just again as somebody that as someone
who believes in the innocence of Karen Reid, do you
think that that hurt her case? Do you think it's irrelevant?
How would you describe it?
Speaker 7 (23:04):
I'd say it's neutral. It's neutral because the phone temperature.
He could have dropped the phone when he walked in
the house and then they found it, and then they
brought it outside they couldn't. There's all kinds of speculation.
So you've got I don't know all the guy's names,
but there's a police officer who was an ATF guy.
(23:30):
He brought his phone to a military base and he
threw the phone in one dumpster, and he took the
simcat out and threw it in another dumpster. They destroyed.
They all the police officers that were there and the
people that were in that house, they all got new phones,
destroyed the phone. The dog went missing. They dug up
the floor. But this thing what I want to tell
(23:53):
you about, there's a picture of the SUV that was Karen's.
And there's a bump of god that sticks out so
you could, like, I guess, open and step in. There's
like a step thing that sticks out more, that sticks
out more than the tail light. So how could the
tail light hit him? The bumper the bumper thing would
(24:14):
have hit him first. He didn't have any injuries, like
at the lower extremities to say, well he got hit
from the from the bottom. But I'm loostening and I'm
reading all kinds of people's speculations and ideas, and so
remember it's reasonable doubt beyond a reasonable doubt. And so
(24:40):
Trooper Proctor getting he was the lead investigator and they
fired him. He was he was an officer that was
drinking and driving on the job. So you talk about
police and this and that this good police, there's bad police.
I also heard, and I'll just to shoot this that
(25:01):
John O'Keefe was investigating some kind of activity of people
doing some kind of trafficking. Because I don't have the details.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, well again without without without the detail. First of all,
if you had the details, I would be hesitant to
talk about details. And without details, no, I know that
I appreciate that. So let me ask you this. You're
convinced O'Keefe went in the house, some sort of a
fight ensued and they realized he's dead.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Right, yes, because somebody in that Again, hold.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
On, I'm just gonna ask you from what? From common sense? Okay?
So at some point someone said, what are you going
to do with this guy? Someone said, let's put him
on the front lawn. That's a good idea. Let's carry
him out to the front lawn. Is that how you
think happened.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
Yes, let me tell you why. It's just.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
The guy lucky.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
The plows of the street. He kept going around and
around and around, and he never saw anybody on the ground.
He was plowing all that night. Now, if anybody was
going to see a body, it would have been the
plow guy. You know how. I know that my dad plowed.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
That's that's fine. My question to you is this, I
don't know how many times he plowed that street. My
question to you is this, you believe the body was
carried out of the house or transported out of the
house by the inhabitants of the house, right.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Yes, yes, because it's not.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So my question then, is my question, then, is what
were they thinking. I mean, do you think one of
them said, well, you know what, do you think maybe
one of them said, you know, I got kind of
a funny suspicion. I'm gonna bet you that Karen Reid's
(26:53):
dropped him off, and she might have maybe her back
headlight is broken, I mean, think it.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
You know, I just told you why the headlight couldn't
be broken. It was crapped from something else.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So now if someone inside says let's put him on
the front lawn, they'll never find him there.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
I think. No, I don't think that's no. No, I
don't think that's what they were thinking. I don't think
they were thinking that's what I think they panicked. They
were all drinking. Everybody was drinking, everybody, and not one.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Of them seeing another cop on the ground. Who just
someone beat the heck out of it. That didn't sober
anybody up. Everybody everybody at that point said no, hey,
let's let's keep this party rolling. Here. I don't know,
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
Here's the thing. We don't we don't know. We're all
speculating based on the evidence, and we're just you know,
I'm rooting for this side. You can root for that side,
but I'm not room for anybody.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I'm not I gotta tell you, I'm not rooting for anybody.
I'm rooting that that we somehow figure out what happened
here because a guy, and it could have been a woman,
but a person. Yes, yes, that's all all right, all right, Lola,
I got to run here.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
Thanks you, thanks for covering the story. And go on
Facebook and find those pages. Just google on Facebook. Just
put in question Karen, read all the pages who come
out all right?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Thanks, thanks Lola, thank you much. Let's keep rolling here.
Going to go to Jim in Holliston, one of my
favorite communities in Massachusetts. Jim, You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Thanks Dan, Thank you ahead. I don't understand the commotion
and the coverage of this because you know, she's nobody.
He's obviously an important person. He was a clop for
sixteen years in Boston. I don't understand the coverage. You
think she was famous or Kadashian or somebody from Beacon
(28:52):
Hill with something. But it's just you know, every time
I hear it on TV, I turn it off. I
turn it off on the radio. I'm so sick of
listening to it, I find it, you know, ridiculous. Now,
the inside information I had back a while ago during
the first trial was that the cops one of their
(29:13):
sons was dealing drugs. And uh, the officer I can't
think of his first name.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
That got killed, well, John O'Keefe, do me a favorite.
Don't mention the name of an officer or the son
of an officer. So you think that that O'Keefe was
suspicious of someone dealing drugs, just leave it like that, please,
if you don't mind.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Right, they were suspicious dealing drugs, and he went and
reported it to the town. The town being the town
and being what it is, obviously covered itself. And whatever
actually happened at the party, I don't know, because obviously
no one does. But my understanding was that he was
(30:04):
beat up inside or the inside information that he had
given to the town.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So therefore, what you're telling me is an experienced Boston
police officer ratted someone out or gave a tip to
the town about a drug dealer, and then he went
into a house where there would be some people in
that house who were somehow related to this alleged drug dealers.
(30:34):
That's what you're telling me.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
That's what the inside information that I have.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, again, whenever someone classifies it as inside information, I'm
not trying to diminish.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Comes from the Boston. It comes from people.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Again, I'm not asking you to tell me who it
came from. Okay, I'm not asking tell me.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I don't spread rumors. Okay, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
There won't be any rumors at the trial. Let's see
what is presented in evidence at the trial. This is
now the second trial, and let's see if the result.
You know, a trial is like a scientific experiment when
you think about it. You know the type of scientific
experiments you did in high school in chemistry when you
were in a sophomore.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I've been to fifty of them. Yeah, my dad was
a trial lawyer for forty seven years.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Okay, great, Okay, great. So that's what I view it
as as a different jury can come back sometimes with
a different results. You hope that they are consistent, but
a different jury come back with different results. Jim, we'll
let it go with that. I got past my break.
I didn't want to have you wait through.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
The hold on second place. I don't think he's getting
the respect and the clarification that he should in this case.
And I don't understand why everybody's spending their attention on
her and nothing on him. After you know, his his
brother's kids die, he took over, he took the net.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, that that will all. I'm sure that
that has all come in. That's been reported said. Okay, Jim,
hear that on the news.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
All you hear about.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, Jim, I got to run. I appreciate your call.
I took you before the break.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
I thank you for your appreciate your patience.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, thank you. Sometimes I do have patience. We'll be
back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Boy, these lines are full. Let's keep rolling here. Let's
go to j D and Leminster. JD you're next on Nightside,
Go right ahead. Okay, not ready, JD, you're ready, let's go.
What's I'm your mind?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Go ahead?
Speaker 9 (32:45):
And so I'm gonna talk about see your callers there
and you have been talking about. You don't believe that
they just you know, left them out there in the snow.
So my working theory is he'd go in there, where's
bad beef between all of them and the original plan
was to I believe that they didn't try to, you know,
kill him. I think that they just maybe that there
was a fight and he may become incapacitated to maybe
(33:07):
at a seizure, and they panicked and they think they
were going to bring him outside. And the plan originally
was they're going to bring him out, pock the car
there and have it blocked to view, and they're gonna
say in the morning that he was hit by a
plow and that would definitely explain the animal bites that
could look like abrasions from plow, and I could believe that,
and also with the head lacerations. And I think when
the car was moved, there was enough snow where they
(33:27):
could say he was hidden in the snow bank, and
that was an explanation. And I think in the morning,
when Karen Reid came and she might have said I
hit him because she was so scared, they mantally changed
their plans to say that that was much much easier.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Okay, well that's a little bit of a different spin,
all right. Appreciate that one, Jad, thank you much.
Speaker 9 (33:44):
The other thing, Dan, I get one more time, do so.
The other thing, too is I'm in industry of public safety,
and I've seen a lot of people hit by motor vehicles,
and when somebody hits a man of that size, even
at thirty miles per hour without breaking, there should be
a lot more damage to the vehicle, not just to
tell like the rear corner. The Papa should have been damaged,
you know, and not eat if he was you know,
maybe kneeling down and they're saying that, and his head
(34:05):
was at the level of the tail light. If she
would hit him, he wouldn't have fown back forty feet,
would have be un over and there were no car
marks on his body. And that's my opinion on this.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
All right, Thanks, Jad, appreciate your call. Thank you. Let
me go next to Matt and Florida. Matt Money, get
you in here before the eleven go ahead, and Matt.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
Dan, you got to carry this in the next hour. Dan,
I really feel I'm kind of annoyed with you on this.
Are you really are you being deliberately obtuse about this
about why did they put the body in the front yard,
Like you've been on that for like the whole trial,
the whole case since it started, Like, oh, they put
him out there because they didn't want him near the
(34:42):
what actually happen. That's why it's not a stupid thing
to do if you if you're them. What I want
to know is the girl who showed up with Karen
Reid in the morning, Jenn mc I won't say her name.
She was the sister in law of the people in
the house.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
If you your sister in law lives in.
Speaker 10 (35:01):
The house, aren't you gonna go knock on the door
and be like, hey, hey, you gotta come out here
and help. This guy's dead in your front lawn. She
never even went to the front door to wake them up.
Anyone in the universe is gonna go run to their sister.
It's her sister. It's her sister and her brother in
(35:21):
law's house, and she doesn't approach the house at all
or try to get their attention. I mean, what the
hell is going on? It's so obvious. You got to
watch watch some of these documentaries.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Dad.
Speaker 10 (35:32):
It's like, I just don't know how you can get up.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I'm trying to limit myself to what I see in court.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
Right, Okay, Well yeah, well you're not watching the case.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You gotta see it.
Speaker 10 (35:43):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I just look, I am not predicting the result. I
am not following. I have a belief that I really
haven't expressed as to what happened. I just find it incredible,
incredible that when let's assume the guy was in the
house and he got they beat him up. Okay, let's
(36:06):
assume that. Or let's assume someone threw a punch and
he hit his head and he he you know whatever.
Now you're telling me, at least the police that I know,
are going to say, what are we going to do
with this guy? We got a body here in our house.
What do we Let's put him in the front lawn.
That'll be a good idea. I don't think that would
(36:26):
have been the first thing they would have thought of.
Speaker 11 (36:28):
They probably would have said, let's get him out of here.
Let's let's let's get him put him in the woods
somewhere so that, you know, he whatever, and he'll be
found six months.
Speaker 10 (36:39):
Just say that part, Well, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
So my apologies on that.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
I didn't mean to come across that. You I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That I'm a big boy, Matt. I have friends, Matt,
you and I are friends. Okay, I want you to
express I love my best call, one of my best calls.
You're always yeah.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
Good guy made the point, look at the evidence. They're
saying they're all asleep in the house, Well, then why
did the why are they moving their car around at
three in the morning when they're supposed to be asleep.
But the plow driver testify he's saying, and this is
the evidence that the plow guy saw saw the one
of their cars uh moving around at three o'clock like
(37:23):
it's because they I think they were gonna let him
leave the house on his.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Own, on his own.
Speaker 10 (37:30):
And they eventually realize, holy crap, this guy's dead, Like,
we got to get him out of here. So they
moved them through the garage, they moved the car, uh,
and you know they're all lying there.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And then can I say one other thing real quick.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
Why hasn't a single person from that house come out
publicly and said, you keeople are all insane, we had
nothing to do with this, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
They've been so quiet.
Speaker 10 (37:50):
It's it's so suspicious to me that not a single
one of them have come out to the news to
talk about it or anything.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
It's so obvious these people buy it, got it.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I got it. I love your passion and uh, let's
they say. I'm not insulted by your call at all.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
I'm just no, no, you know, I'm just giving you.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The I listened today to this forensic expert who I
found to be credible. Did you happen to hear this
guy in the understand today or no?
Speaker 10 (38:18):
Well, I don't call him incredible because where was he
in the first trial. They just pulled this guy out
the right field, you know, like you.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I'm told, I'm told that he did testify in the
first trial. I'm here anything, okay, I gotta run. Thanks,
I appreciate it, all right, let me get one more
in here, rob what do I have? Do I have
two minutes? Two minutes? Great, Well, let's go to Kristin
and Franklin. Kristin, won't you won't make you wake through
the news? You go right ahead. What's your take?
Speaker 12 (38:44):
I can I'll be really quick. I talked to you
about a year ago to the day regarding this Keith. Yeah,
she did it. I'm getting stressed hearing all these fabricated
things people are saying. As you said, we've been testified
last year. People are not listening to the facts. Of
(39:06):
the case. They're on those Facebook pages. They're vile, they're
so much information that's been on your show tonight is
just not true. As you said, they're a bunch of
policemen there weren't don't even know how much everyone was drinking.
But Karen did they have cocktails and go out. Sure,
there's no conspiracy. This has been said by her prosecutors
(39:30):
for two years now, and I just can't even tell
you how much. It was a horrible accident and it's
just so hard to hear all this misinformation.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Well again, that's really hard. We entertained callers and that's
we talk about it. And just as these conversations are
going on in households across New England and across the country,
they're on Tonight or Nightside. I found the forensic testimony
today to be credible. I also believe that from a
(40:03):
from a societal point of view, this sort of testimony
is more credible today than it was twenty years ago.
People now are saying, okay, DNA testimony, We accept that,
and you know it's it has has a ring of
truth to it. But let's see, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 12 (40:23):
Brennan is going to continue to clean up the holes
that the prosecution had last trial. And I really think
people are going to open their eyes and you know,
see the fact that maybe it wasn't clean enough to
show as well.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Left We'll see. I think I think Brennan has had
a better start than Lonley did. Let's put it like that. Kristin,
I got a run. I got it.
Speaker 12 (40:43):
I'm not calling you in a year from now.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I hope to hear from you more often. Okay, thanks Kristin.
By the way, tonight the BBC is reporting that the
Liberal Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Corney's party will win
the election. Uh and certainly that is something that Donald
Trump is not looking to hear. We will continue to
talk about Karen Reid on the other side, you folks
decide the subject at hand. Coming back on night side
It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, welcome back everybody. Before we get back to
our topics, I just want to thank everyone who joined
us yesterday at the Neiroli Restaurant in Westwood. We had
a big crowd. A lot of people were there from
all over our Nightside audience in different different states. There
(00:29):
were one hundred and seventy eight people who made reservations
and I think most, if not all, showed up. We
had two seatings, one at noon and one at twelve thirty.
I want to thank Joanna Douglas from the Neiroli Restaurant,
and most of all, I want to thank the Winnaker
(00:49):
Band Bo and Bill Winnaker, as well as Cindy Gail
their song their Chantous I guess would be the way
their singer Neil Green on the piano, and also doctor
Dan Carp, a Bostonian by birth who graduated from Boston
Land School in nineteen sixty five and has had an
(01:11):
amazing career as an oncologist. He was there. He played
the piano a little bit for a little while as well.
There were lots of great people there. I met just
about everybody there spent three hours talking with nightside listeners.
Didn't eat lunch, didn't eat breakfast, didn't eat bunch, whatever
you want to call it, on Sunday between eleven and two.
But had a ball. And I believe that Marita has
(01:33):
posted a bunch of pictures on our Instagram account and
probably on Facebook as well. Check it out for sure.
Thank all of you so much. It has been It's
just was a wonderful day. It was a cold, windy,
late April day, a perfect day to be in a
(01:54):
nice restaurant in Westwood. It recommended highly and it was.
It was really a blast. So I just want to
say thanks to all who showed up, and maybe we'll
do it again, simple as that. All Right, We're talking
right now about the Karen Reid case, the Karen Reid
case that is now being in its sect, its second trial,
(02:17):
it's retrial, and I thought that today the prosecution had
a pretty effective presentation with this one witness, Ian Whitten,
who is a digital intelligence expert, who basically said that
the cell phone of the victim in this case, John O'Keefe,
(02:39):
was in the proximity of the front lawn for the
entirety from the moment that he left that vehicle until
his body was discovered around six o'clock. Left that vehicle
a little after twelve thirty, the vehicle driven by Karen Reid,
and it also there the digital forensics showed his least,
(03:00):
his examination of the cell phone showed that the temperature
of the battery dropped from eighty degrees down to thirty
seven degrees when his body was discovered. Now, make of
that what you want. I found it to be pretty effective. Obviously,
there's a lot of pieces of evidence and testimony that
(03:21):
this story's going to deal with, and who knows where
it ends up. I just think that the prosecution has
had a couple of pretty good days here and has
been more effective at the beginning of this trial than
it was at the beginning of the first trial. My
comments love to hear from you. Where we're going to
(03:41):
go next. Let's go to Mark in Cambridge has held over,
as has Amy and Lakeville and Alex and Millis. We'll
get to all of them, I promise. Let's go to
Mark in Cambridge. Mark your thoughts. If you had a
chance to review today some of the testimony that went
in from this this intel diligence digital intelligence expert.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Thank you, said effect Dan, how are you go?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right ahead? Mark, I feel like I might have surprised
you here. Welcome, welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say, yeah, Hank Gwenny
is good. I mean, I mean he put on a
good demonstration. I mean I didn't follow it one understand.
I know I have TV. I probably was sleeping anyway,
but I was just seeing clip. I'm sorry, you know.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, the point, the point I made last hour, and
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, Mark, is
that I think we have all become conditioned. Even the
skeptics amongst us have said, hey, this forensic evidence thing,
whether it's d n A or you know, digital readings
of devices. Uh, you know, we all are familiar now,
(04:59):
I think with ways and those different items that can
tell you which way to turn in the parking lot
to get to where you want to get to, turn right,
turn left over the street. So I think it would
be and we watch CSI this and CSI that. I
watch Tracker on Sunday nights, which is the way I
(05:19):
end my weekend. So I think all of us have
kind of come to the conclusion Hey, this stuff has
some has some probate value.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
Absolutely, I agree with you on that, Yes, it does.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I also want to say that.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
This is what I don't like about. I mean, I
told you this before. You know, I've been watching Karen
read from Eclipse, and she's always smirking and think of
I mean, in my opinion, she thinks it's a joke
because she's smirking and smiling and like it's a big show.
I mean, you know, I don't you know me personally,
I don't like that. I mean, you're facing a manslaughter case.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Someone, you're facing a second in the worst case scenario,
it's a second degree murder case. I mean, that's one
of the countries looking at She's looking at a second
degree murder, which is fifteen years before you're eligible for
parole in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's a long time.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Manslaughter as well as leaving to see of an accident.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And I also think that this is someone who she
at one point had a very you know, personal positive
relationship with and whatever the cause of his death, you
would think it would be something that that that she
might show a little more empathy, is what I'm trying
to say. I mean, certainly the interviews that she did,
(06:39):
the TV interviews that she did between the trials, I
don't think are going to help her with any jury
and that that evidently he's been at.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And also they say the police thinking this the big
cover up this, and I'm not I'm not buying that
theory because no law enforcement, at least the good offices,
no law enforcement office, is going to risk their career,
their houses and everything to plant evidence. I don't. I don't.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I'm not buying that, man. I'm just not buying that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
You know, well, I'm even taking it one step further
than you, Mark, and that is that if let us
say something happened in that house. If O'Keefe went into
that house and some sort of an argument ensued and
somehow some way someone pushed him or hit him, or
he fell down and he hit his head, and they
realized this guy's dead, well, the first thing to do
(07:26):
would be, I think, to call for e mts and
try to try.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
To help, right exactly right.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And then even if they came to the conclusion there's
nothing we can do. He's dead. Do you plant him
on the front lawn? Do you just carry him out
of the house and put him on the front level.
I mean, what are the chances that that as you're carryed,
you know, he's he's you know, carrying him out down
the steps in a snowstorm, some some police cars going
(07:55):
to drive by, or any anyone's going to drive by way?
What are you doing there? Oh, friends, just had a
little bit too much to drink. We're just gonna put
him here at the front lawn to sober him up.
I don't know, Yeah, that's Harry.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, but you know, like I said, Man, I mean
so that judge, Judge Coloney, I don't know, she's just
she geta found guilty. I think I truly believe this
because she thinks even Judge Colony told her, oh you
think this is funny. I remember that, And I tell you.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That was that was a comment that the judge made. Yeah,
and I'm sure that.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
He's gonna ha her.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
She's gonna hammer her.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I wouldn't be surprised she'd take him in the customer
right then and there. I tell you she's.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves here, so we'll just
we'll just continue to focus on today. Hey, Mark, appreciate
your call. We'll talk again.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Thank you much, thank you and Goo Celtics.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yes, I think they're doing pretty well. Thanks Mark, touch
you so good night. We got Amy and lake theyll
coming up. The only line that is open in six, seven, nine,
ten thirty. I don't want you to waste your time.
The other lines are full six one, seven, nine, three
one ten thirty. We will if we if we go
to eleven, we will change topics at eleven, I promise.
(09:13):
So you want to get your thoughts in, now's the
time to do it. Coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You're on night Side with Dan ray onell you Bzy
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Back to the phones we go, going to go to
Amy in Lakeville. Amy, appreciate your patience, Thanks for holding
through the news.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Go right ahead, Amy, no problem, Thank you so much. Dan.
So I want to start off first by saying I'm
a Karen Reed supporter and I don't think that she's
going to be found guilty.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I did not work out in the way today, so
I didn't see the witnesses today, so I'm going to
be watching it tonight. Sure, but I think that once
all the other witnesses, just like in the first trial
go through. I think there's a lot of ah situations
that are going to.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Continue to raise the reasonable.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Doubt and they're not gonna be able to convict her,
meaning that you know, the everybody getting rid of their
cell phones, the dog was rehomed, the basement was redone,
So I believe he went into the house and like
a previous caller said, everyone was drinking and they might
have been joking around. There was a lot of jim
(10:25):
equipments there and I think he it was I think
it was a total accident in his head, you know,
sustained a skull fracture, and I think he was kind
of tossed out to the front lawn. And those bites
on his arm or those marks on his arm are
definitely dog bites. I'm a registered in the bergency department.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
And give me, let me, let me gently challenge you
want it, okay, just for the fun of it. Uh,
there's a bunch of you know, police or police related
individuals there. You know, police are not dumb by putting
him out of the front lawn. What is accomplished by that?
(11:10):
I mean, did they think like he's going to disappear overnight?
I mean out of sight out of mind.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I don't know, but I think it's also suspect that
there was a retired chief across the street. There was
a retired Boston cop a thirty four fair View. I
think it's odd. I mean, when there's flashing lights on
my street, I'm like, what's going on? I'll look at
and I might go outside. Nobody came outside.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, they weren't flashing lights until.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
The morning, right, well until the morning until six o'clock
from the ambulance.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Right at that point, people came outside. But what I'm
saying is if the people in the house knew that
something horrible had happened, okay, and whether it was you know,
an intentional punch throwne or an in burtened, you know,
a push and a shove and somebody fell down the
flight of stairs and hit their head, which can happen, okay,
(12:03):
would they literally take the chance of, well, let's just
carry him and put him in the front lawn. I
would think that that if police were concerned, they either
would get a story together and say, look, you know,
he slipped and he fell, right, he slipped and fell.
Let's call the police and explain he slipped and fell
(12:25):
he'd been drinking whatever, or they would have taken him
somewhere to the Blue Hills at two o'clock in the
morning and he would have been found when when when
spring came. I don't know. I just I had this
in my mind. I wrestle with and I think to myself,
no matter how drunk people might have been, and I'm
(12:46):
not suggesting they were, but there was some pretty good
suggesting people had been drinking. No matter how drunk people
had been, would have that been the the option? I
don't know, would that?
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I think there was also a kind of a contentious
relationship between the HTF agent Higgins and John O'Keeffe, and Higgins,
you know his relationship with Karen and the text. It's
I watched the first trial, almost all of it, you know,
I take it watched when at home. So I think
the witnesses that are going to be coming up, it's
(13:22):
interesting that they put this, this these witnesses out now
because you know that and I know the jury has
been made away.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
So so let me ask you this, This the the
witness who was on today, This this technical digital forensic expert.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Okay with it?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Did he testifying the first trial? Yes, Okay, And how
did the defense counter his testimony. I assume it was
the same today as it was in the first trial.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
I'm trying to think back. It was so long ago.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Okay, Nope, I just didn't know. I found it to
be fairly. I found it to be a credible witness today.
And I also think that the public has now come
to accept the concept of forensics evidence. Forensic evidence, whether
it's you know, blood samples, DNA and that sort of thing,
or you know, digital markings, as I think we was
(14:22):
testifying today that the phone never never moved for that
five and a half hours. It was always pined in
the same location at various points in time. Uh. And
that uh, And that the temperature of the phone, the
battery went from eighty down to thirty seven. That would
have happened now you could you could argue, well, maybe
(14:44):
he he stumbled in and the phone fell out of
his pocket. Okay, I guess you could make that argument,
you know, I guess.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
But John's temperature was steady when he got to good Smaradan. Yeah,
it's very cold.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's pretty cold. So that would say that somebody was
outside for a while.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So is it more likely than not in your mind
that there was some sort of either an accident and
impact or he just got out of the car and
tripped and fell and hit his head and she didn't
see him and she drove off. But the third option
being he went in the house, got beat up, and
they planted him at the lawn, which one of those
is more likely in your mind.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
In my mind, it's the third option, because he suffered
a skull fracture and he had the they're called battle
eyes when you suffer a basil or skull fracture. That's
why his eyes were so swollen, black and blue.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Then you think that this group of police officers inside
the house said we got a great idea, let's put
him in the front lawn. You don't think anybody said, well,
but is that what police officers under pressure would do
with a body with a dead body?
Speaker 5 (16:01):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Or the second option that he tripped and he fell,
Maybe he fell hit his head on the curb, and.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
That would be more credible to me. That would be
more credible to me than the idea that somehow, you know,
I would think that if this is just me, Okay,
I haven't covered this trial. So I would think that
if there were five or six police officers or whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
The number was too.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, well police professionals who were there, that they would
have said, look, put him in a car and get
him out of here. Let's kick him up to the
Blue Hills and put him carry him, you know, sixty
yards into the into the brush. And uh, I think,
I don't know, you think that they got you. You
you accept the fact that they just said, put him
(16:49):
on the front lawn. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
You know, maybe they'll say the cloud hit him and
I don't know, we'll see. I also think that the
investigation from the get go was you know, okay, okays, Oh,
I think you're right on.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That go to agree with you that one. That's from
everything that I've read, every oppression I have. Well, look,
thank you. I really do appreciate hearing from you, and
I hope you'll continue to follow this and if at
some point your mind changes, let me know I will.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I'm looking at you every day on the way home
from work. I get out very much.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And you work. You work obviously in the you work
as a.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Emergency in a community hospital.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, thank you. For what you do.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Thank you for thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
And I've seen my share of dog bites and they're
not they're not good.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
All right, thanks so much, talk soon, good bye, Okay,
good night. Here comes the news at the bottom of
the hour. We'll be back the only line right now,
six one, seven thirty, coming right back on Night Shot.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It's Night Side with Ray, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
We're getting reaction. We probably would do this at least
once a week, or more often if necessary, when they're
important witnesses. I was taken by the digital forensic testimony today.
Let's see what Alex and Millis has to say. Alex
here next to on Nightside. I hope you had a great
Greek Independence Day yesterday, Alex.
Speaker 7 (18:29):
It was.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
It was awesome. My son marched and we were, you know,
we had a lot of floats and I can my
hat's off to the City of Boston and the Boston police.
They really a couple of the police officers were holding
Greek flags. So that made me like really really, you know,
kind of uh, you know, so proud.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
All right, let's let's talk about the Karen Reid reads
while go ahead.
Speaker 8 (18:51):
Okay, you know what they say if you cannot say
anything nice about a person, don't say anything at all.
But I'm gonna my mother told me, you like that
that rule. Actually, she comes he and reminds me of
remember Pam Smart. She comes across as very arrogant, and
the way she prances or walks, you know, and her attitude.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (19:13):
I mean, the juris are going to see this because
they look at the body language, don't they. I mean,
I feel bad for the woman, but you know, all
she's known for is you know, a night of heavy
drinking with her police officer boyfriend, you know. And what's
that tell you? You know, is that is that like
being irresponsible? Now she's she was a professional. She was,
(19:35):
you know, an educator or whatever you find now.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
She taught she taught business in college.
Speaker 8 (19:40):
Yuh yeah. So if I'm on the jury and and
you know the way she she carries herself, it tells
me that she's kind of insensitive. I don't know, you know,
like you're not You're supposed to look at the facts.
But that's part of it too, you know, the body language.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I will tell you that. The headline in the
Boston Globe tomorrow will be expert testifies in Karen readtrial
that John O'Keefe's phone stopped moving soon after he was
dropped off at Canton home. That's by Travis Anderson's. That
will be their story tomorrow, I think in the globe,
so we'll say, I mean, you know, we can make
judgments and what different people see in demeanor. I just
(20:24):
had the thought I talked about demeanor tonight has nothing
to do with her physical appearance. A demeanor is the
way a person carries themselves, and then you have to
mix in with that some of the television interviews. I
don't understand why her lawyers allowed her to do TV interviews.
(20:45):
It seems to me that maybe they are convinced she's innocent.
You know, I believe there is a quote of public opinion.
I function in that in what I call the quote
of public opinion on behalf of Joseph Body and subsequently
Peter Lamoni, two men who were wrongfully and intentionally convicted
(21:07):
for crime they never had anything to do with. But
a lot of we had a lot of evidence on
that case that we described over time. A lot of
it was.
Speaker 8 (21:17):
With the saphone data. That kind of tells me, well,
you know, maybe he didn't go in the house because
the temperature remained constant on the phone.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You know, Well, the temperature didn't remain constant. The temperature,
that's what I thought. They said, No, No, the temperature
on the phone battery apparently dropped from eighty degrees to
as low as thirty seven degrees at the time that
his body was discovered, and that was that. Those are forensics.
(21:49):
Those are forensics from the phone. Unless the defense can
defeat those forensics, I think those are going to stick
in the mind of the jury. Alex again, glad you
had a great day yesterday. I got to keep rolling here.
Speaker 8 (22:02):
Okayet your suits some by the time.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay, thank you much. Let me go to Lola in
San Diego. Lola is a big advocate for the innocence
of Karen Reid. Go right ahead, Lola.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
Well, yeah, hi Dan, So you know we could talk
to the Kyles come home. So it's four different website,
four different pages on Facebook supporting Karen Reid that people
can go look and read and discover what we're all
talking about. So one particular thing, Well, before.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
You get to that, I'll give you a chance to
publicize Facebook, But did you get a chance to watch
the forensic testimony that I came in today.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
I did, I did.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
I listened to that gentleman that was on the stands.
So there's all kinds of thing with me.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
What was I'm just again as somebody that as someone
who believes in the innocence of Karen Reid, do you
think that that hurt her case? Do you think it's irrelevant?
How would you describe it?
Speaker 7 (23:04):
I'd say it's neutral. It's neutral because the phone temperature.
He could have dropped the phone when he walked in
the house and then they found it, and then they
brought it outside they couldn't. There's all kinds of speculation.
So you've got I don't know all the guy's names,
but there's a police officer who was an ATF guy.
(23:30):
He brought his phone to a military base and he
threw the phone in one dumpster, and he took the
simcat out and threw it in another dumpster. They destroyed.
They all the police officers that were there and the
people that were in that house, they all got new phones,
destroyed the phone. The dog went missing. They dug up
the floor. But this thing what I want to tell
(23:53):
you about, there's a picture of the SUV that was Karen's.
And there's a bump of god that sticks out so
you could, like, I guess, open and step in. There's
like a step thing that sticks out more, that sticks
out more than the tail light. So how could the
tail light hit him? The bumper the bumper thing would
(24:14):
have hit him first. He didn't have any injuries, like
at the lower extremities to say, well he got hit
from the from the bottom. But I'm loostening and I'm
reading all kinds of people's speculations and ideas, and so
remember it's reasonable doubt beyond a reasonable doubt. And so
(24:40):
Trooper Proctor getting he was the lead investigator and they
fired him. He was he was an officer that was
drinking and driving on the job. So you talk about
police and this and that this good police, there's bad police.
I also heard, and I'll just to shoot this that
(25:01):
John O'Keefe was investigating some kind of activity of people
doing some kind of trafficking. Because I don't have the details.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, well again without without without the detail. First of all,
if you had the details, I would be hesitant to
talk about details. And without details, no, I know that
I appreciate that. So let me ask you this. You're
convinced O'Keefe went in the house, some sort of a
fight ensued and they realized he's dead.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Right, yes, because somebody in that Again, hold.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
On, I'm just gonna ask you from what? From common sense? Okay?
So at some point someone said, what are you going
to do with this guy? Someone said, let's put him
on the front lawn. That's a good idea. Let's carry
him out to the front lawn. Is that how you
think happened.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
Yes, let me tell you why. It's just.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
The guy lucky.
Speaker 7 (25:57):
The plows of the street. He kept going around and
around and around, and he never saw anybody on the ground.
He was plowing all that night. Now, if anybody was
going to see a body, it would have been the
plow guy. You know how. I know that my dad plowed.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
That's that's fine. My question to you is this, I
don't know how many times he plowed that street. My
question to you is this, you believe the body was
carried out of the house or transported out of the
house by the inhabitants of the house, right.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Yes, yes, because it's not.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So my question then, is my question, then, is what
were they thinking. I mean, do you think one of
them said, well, you know what, do you think maybe
one of them said, you know, I got kind of
a funny suspicion. I'm gonna bet you that Karen Reid's
(26:53):
dropped him off, and she might have maybe her back
headlight is broken, I mean, think it.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
You know, I just told you why the headlight couldn't
be broken. It was crapped from something else.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So now if someone inside says let's put him on
the front lawn, they'll never find him there.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
I think. No, I don't think that's no. No, I
don't think that's what they were thinking. I don't think
they were thinking that's what I think they panicked. They
were all drinking. Everybody was drinking, everybody, and not one.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Of them seeing another cop on the ground. Who just
someone beat the heck out of it. That didn't sober
anybody up. Everybody everybody at that point said no, hey,
let's let's keep this party rolling. Here. I don't know,
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (27:39):
Here's the thing. We don't we don't know. We're all
speculating based on the evidence, and we're just you know,
I'm rooting for this side. You can root for that side,
but I'm not room for anybody.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I'm not I gotta tell you, I'm not rooting for anybody.
I'm rooting that that we somehow figure out what happened
here because a guy, and it could have been a woman,
but a person. Yes, yes, that's all all right, all right, Lola,
I got to run here.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
Thanks you, thanks for covering the story. And go on
Facebook and find those pages. Just google on Facebook. Just
put in question Karen, read all the pages who come
out all right?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Thanks, thanks Lola, thank you much. Let's keep rolling here.
Going to go to Jim in Holliston, one of my
favorite communities in Massachusetts. Jim, You're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Thanks Dan, Thank you ahead. I don't understand the commotion
and the coverage of this because you know, she's nobody.
He's obviously an important person. He was a clop for
sixteen years in Boston. I don't understand the coverage. You
think she was famous or Kadashian or somebody from Beacon
(28:52):
Hill with something. But it's just you know, every time
I hear it on TV, I turn it off. I
turn it off on the radio. I'm so sick of
listening to it, I find it, you know, ridiculous. Now,
the inside information I had back a while ago during
the first trial was that the cops one of their
(29:13):
sons was dealing drugs. And uh, the officer I can't
think of his first name.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
That got killed, well, John O'Keefe, do me a favorite.
Don't mention the name of an officer or the son
of an officer. So you think that that O'Keefe was
suspicious of someone dealing drugs, just leave it like that, please,
if you don't mind.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Right, they were suspicious dealing drugs, and he went and
reported it to the town. The town being the town
and being what it is, obviously covered itself. And whatever
actually happened at the party, I don't know, because obviously
no one does. But my understanding was that he was
(30:04):
beat up inside or the inside information that he had
given to the town.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So therefore, what you're telling me is an experienced Boston
police officer ratted someone out or gave a tip to
the town about a drug dealer, and then he went
into a house where there would be some people in
that house who were somehow related to this alleged drug dealers.
(30:34):
That's what you're telling me.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
That's what the inside information that I have.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Well, again, whenever someone classifies it as inside information, I'm
not trying to diminish.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Comes from the Boston. It comes from people.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Again, I'm not asking you to tell me who it
came from. Okay, I'm not asking tell me.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I don't spread rumors. Okay, let's do this.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
There won't be any rumors at the trial. Let's see
what is presented in evidence at the trial. This is
now the second trial, and let's see if the result.
You know, a trial is like a scientific experiment when
you think about it. You know the type of scientific
experiments you did in high school in chemistry when you
were in a sophomore.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
I've been to fifty of them. Yeah, my dad was
a trial lawyer for forty seven years.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Okay, great, Okay, great. So that's what I view it
as as a different jury can come back sometimes with
a different results. You hope that they are consistent, but
a different jury come back with different results. Jim, we'll
let it go with that. I got past my break.
I didn't want to have you wait through.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
The hold on second place. I don't think he's getting
the respect and the clarification that he should in this case.
And I don't understand why everybody's spending their attention on
her and nothing on him. After you know, his his
brother's kids die, he took over, he took the net.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, that that will all. I'm sure that
that has all come in. That's been reported said. Okay, Jim,
hear that on the news.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
All you hear about.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, Jim, I got to run. I appreciate your call.
I took you before the break.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
I thank you for your appreciate your patience.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Okay, thank you. Sometimes I do have patience. We'll be
back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Boy, these lines are full. Let's keep rolling here. Let's
go to j D and Leminster. JD you're next on Nightside,
Go right ahead. Okay, not ready, JD, you're ready, let's go.
What's I'm your mind?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Go ahead?
Speaker 9 (32:45):
And so I'm gonna talk about see your callers there
and you have been talking about. You don't believe that
they just you know, left them out there in the snow.
So my working theory is he'd go in there, where's
bad beef between all of them and the original plan
was to I believe that they didn't try to, you know,
kill him. I think that they just maybe that there
was a fight and he may become incapacitated to maybe
(33:07):
at a seizure, and they panicked and they think they
were going to bring him outside. And the plan originally
was they're going to bring him out, pock the car
there and have it blocked to view, and they're gonna
say in the morning that he was hit by a
plow and that would definitely explain the animal bites that
could look like abrasions from plow, and I could believe that,
and also with the head lacerations. And I think when
the car was moved, there was enough snow where they
(33:27):
could say he was hidden in the snow bank, and
that was an explanation. And I think in the morning,
when Karen Reid came and she might have said I
hit him because she was so scared, they mantally changed
their plans to say that that was much much easier.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Okay, well that's a little bit of a different spin,
all right. Appreciate that one, Jad, thank you much.
Speaker 9 (33:44):
The other thing, Dan, I get one more time, do so.
The other thing, too is I'm in industry of public safety,
and I've seen a lot of people hit by motor vehicles,
and when somebody hits a man of that size, even
at thirty miles per hour without breaking, there should be
a lot more damage to the vehicle, not just to
tell like the rear corner. The Papa should have been damaged,
you know, and not eat if he was you know,
maybe kneeling down and they're saying that, and his head
(34:05):
was at the level of the tail light. If she
would hit him, he wouldn't have fown back forty feet,
would have be un over and there were no car
marks on his body. And that's my opinion on this.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
All right, Thanks, Jad, appreciate your call. Thank you. Let
me go next to Matt and Florida. Matt Money, get
you in here before the eleven go ahead, and Matt.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
Dan, you got to carry this in the next hour. Dan,
I really feel I'm kind of annoyed with you on this.
Are you really are you being deliberately obtuse about this
about why did they put the body in the front yard,
Like you've been on that for like the whole trial,
the whole case since it started, Like, oh, they put
him out there because they didn't want him near the
(34:42):
what actually happen. That's why it's not a stupid thing
to do if you if you're them. What I want
to know is the girl who showed up with Karen
Reid in the morning, Jenn mc I won't say her name.
She was the sister in law of the people in
the house.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
If you your sister in law lives in.
Speaker 10 (35:01):
The house, aren't you gonna go knock on the door
and be like, hey, hey, you gotta come out here
and help. This guy's dead in your front lawn. She
never even went to the front door to wake them up.
Anyone in the universe is gonna go run to their sister.
It's her sister. It's her sister and her brother in
(35:21):
law's house, and she doesn't approach the house at all
or try to get their attention. I mean, what the
hell is going on? It's so obvious. You got to
watch watch some of these documentaries.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Dad.
Speaker 10 (35:32):
It's like, I just don't know how you can get up.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I'm trying to limit myself to what I see in court.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
Right, Okay, Well yeah, well you're not watching the case.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You gotta see it.
Speaker 10 (35:43):
I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I just look, I am not predicting the result. I
am not following. I have a belief that I really
haven't expressed as to what happened. I just find it incredible,
incredible that when let's assume the guy was in the
house and he got they beat him up. Okay, let's
(36:06):
assume that. Or let's assume someone threw a punch and
he hit his head and he he you know whatever.
Now you're telling me, at least the police that I know,
are going to say, what are we going to do
with this guy? We got a body here in our house.
What do we Let's put him in the front lawn.
That'll be a good idea. I don't think that would
(36:26):
have been the first thing they would have thought of.
Speaker 11 (36:28):
They probably would have said, let's get him out of here.
Let's let's let's get him put him in the woods
somewhere so that, you know, he whatever, and he'll be
found six months.
Speaker 10 (36:39):
Just say that part, Well, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
So my apologies on that.
Speaker 10 (36:43):
I didn't mean to come across that. You I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That I'm a big boy, Matt. I have friends, Matt,
you and I are friends. Okay, I want you to
express I love my best call, one of my best calls.
You're always yeah.
Speaker 10 (36:59):
Good guy made the point, look at the evidence. They're
saying they're all asleep in the house, Well, then why
did the why are they moving their car around at
three in the morning when they're supposed to be asleep.
But the plow driver testify he's saying, and this is
the evidence that the plow guy saw saw the one
of their cars uh moving around at three o'clock like
(37:23):
it's because they I think they were gonna let him
leave the house on his.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Own, on his own.
Speaker 10 (37:30):
And they eventually realize, holy crap, this guy's dead, Like,
we got to get him out of here. So they
moved them through the garage, they moved the car, uh,
and you know they're all lying there.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And then can I say one other thing real quick.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
Why hasn't a single person from that house come out
publicly and said, you keeople are all insane, we had
nothing to do with this, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
They've been so quiet.
Speaker 10 (37:50):
It's it's so suspicious to me that not a single
one of them have come out to the news to
talk about it or anything.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
It's so obvious these people buy it, got it.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I got it. I love your passion and uh, let's
they say. I'm not insulted by your call at all.
Speaker 10 (38:05):
I'm just no, no, you know, I'm just giving you.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
The I listened today to this forensic expert who I
found to be credible. Did you happen to hear this
guy in the understand today or no?
Speaker 10 (38:18):
Well, I don't call him incredible because where was he
in the first trial. They just pulled this guy out
the right field, you know, like you.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I'm told, I'm told that he did testify in the
first trial. I'm here anything, okay, I gotta run. Thanks,
I appreciate it, all right, let me get one more
in here, rob what do I have? Do I have
two minutes? Two minutes? Great, Well, let's go to Kristin
and Franklin. Kristin, won't you won't make you wake through
the news? You go right ahead. What's your take?
Speaker 12 (38:44):
I can I'll be really quick. I talked to you
about a year ago to the day regarding this Keith. Yeah,
she did it. I'm getting stressed hearing all these fabricated
things people are saying. As you said, we've been testified
last year. People are not listening to the facts. Of
(39:06):
the case. They're on those Facebook pages. They're vile, they're
so much information that's been on your show tonight is
just not true. As you said, they're a bunch of
policemen there weren't don't even know how much everyone was drinking.
But Karen did they have cocktails and go out. Sure,
there's no conspiracy. This has been said by her prosecutors
(39:30):
for two years now, and I just can't even tell
you how much. It was a horrible accident and it's
just so hard to hear all this misinformation.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Well again, that's really hard. We entertained callers and that's
we talk about it. And just as these conversations are
going on in households across New England and across the country,
they're on Tonight or Nightside. I found the forensic testimony
today to be credible. I also believe that from a
(40:03):
from a societal point of view, this sort of testimony
is more credible today than it was twenty years ago.
People now are saying, okay, DNA testimony, We accept that,
and you know it's it has has a ring of
truth to it. But let's see, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 12 (40:23):
Brennan is going to continue to clean up the holes
that the prosecution had last trial. And I really think
people are going to open their eyes and you know,
see the fact that maybe it wasn't clean enough to
show as well.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Left We'll see. I think I think Brennan has had
a better start than Lonley did. Let's put it like that. Kristin,
I got a run. I got it.
Speaker 12 (40:43):
I'm not calling you in a year from now.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I hope to hear from you more often. Okay, thanks Kristin.
By the way, tonight the BBC is reporting that the
Liberal Prime Minister of Canada, Mark Corney's party will win
the election. Uh and certainly that is something that Donald
Trump is not looking to hear. We will continue to
talk about Karen Reid on the other side, you folks
decide the subject at hand. Coming back on night side
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