The Mysteries of the Serial Killer Mind…

The Mysteries of the Serial Killer Mind… Have you ever questioned, what really makes a serial killer tick? Or how is a serial killer’s mind wired? Dr. Scott Bonn is a criminologist and expert on criminal behavior. Bonn has spent much of his career studying, interviewing, and corresponding with serial killers. Bonn joined us to explain why the majority of serial killers are either psychopaths or sociopaths, how the two differ, and the powerful influences of nature and nurture on the development of serial killers.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray wby Costs Radio. All Right, welcome
back everyone. A few days ago, uh and during our eight o'clock hour,
we had a very interesting guest onand I felt that we needed to
have him on uh and take somephone calls. Uh. His name is

(00:23):
doctor Scott bonn Uh he is.He's going to be speaking in Boston actually
coming up in the not too distantfuture at the Winery. I believe it's
next week, Scott Bond, doctorBond, welcome back to Nightside. How
are you, sir? I'm doingwell, Dan, thanks for having me
back. So you will be inBoston next week? Well we could.
We'll give that a plug towards theend of the uh the the hour,

(00:48):
But but you have your event iscoming up in Boston next week. Correct,
that is correct, June eleventh atthe City Winery. Good. Okay,
just want to make sure so,uh, you are a psychologist by
training, as I understand it,and also a criminologist. Many people who
are listening to us right now probablydid not hear you with me last week,

(01:08):
but tell us a little bit aboutyour background and how you got interested
in serial killers. Yeah? Absolutely, yes, I have a PhD in
criminology, and I also have amaster's degree in criminal justice, which is
more about the law and the actualapplication of justice the justice system. But

(01:30):
in addition, in addition to beinga criminologist, I have an interesting background
in that I actually spent twenty yearsin the media and entertainment field. I
was involved at NBC Television Network withthe launch of shows like Seinfeld, but
I was also very much involved withthe nightly news, marketing and promoting the
nightly news. And what I noticed. What I noticed is that you know,

(01:56):
there's an old journalistic term and itis when it bleeds, it leads.
And I noticed that with the mostsensationalized stories like the O. J.
Simpson murder trial I was at NBCduring that time, you know,
these things become iconic, sensationalized andhuge. And later after I got my
PhD in criminology and I started studyingstudying serial killers, I realized it occurred

(02:20):
to me that some of these individualsbecome truly like iconic and part of the
fabric of our popular culture. AndI'm talking about individuals like Ted Bundy,
like Jeffrey Dahmer, like BTK,Dennis Rader, buying torture killed. They
have become, you know, fixturesrepresenting almost symbolic of evil and the dark

(02:42):
side in our society. That fascinatedme, and so I really explored that
avenue and uh and it just itled me to developing this show that I
that I now tour the country with. Right, Well, that's a really
interesting background in terms of how youcame to this point. What I want
to do, Obviously, I wantto I don't want to discourage people.

(03:05):
I'm going to the show, butI want to pick your brain here a
little bit. I want to givepeople an opportunity to call in and ask
you questions. I'm going to startwith a very fundamental question is what determines
if someone is a serial killer?Is there a specific set of actions that
someone has to take. I mean, obviously there are people who have been

(03:28):
on killing spreeze, But what isit that actually classify someone as a serial
killer or is that an umbrella termthat can cover a wide variety of mass
murderers. Well, that's a fantasticquestion, Dan, and a great way
to start. And the answer isis that it has evolved over time,

(03:51):
and I want to take us backfor a second to the early nineteen seventies.
At that point, there was reallyvery under little understood about this type
of individual who would kill repeatedly,and in fact, they didn't even distinguish
them from a one time event whatwe consider now a mass shooting, a

(04:12):
mass publish shooting. They just calledall of these individuals mass murders. Well,
it turns out that the psychology ofsomeone who kills repeatedly is very different
than someone who goes out in oneexplosive, horrific act and kills a bunch
of people and dies at the scene. The psychology that is very different.
So the FBI formed their behavioral Scienceunit in the nineteen seventies early nineteen seventies,

(04:39):
which has been immortalized in the mindHunter TV series on Netflix, developed
by a really good friend of mine. But in the nineteen seventies nineteen eighties
a definition evolved, and it's theclassic definition of a serial killer, which
is that an individual has to killthree people in separate events, in separate

(05:03):
crime scenes and events that are notlinked. And also here's the additional criteria
is that there has to be whatis known as an emotional cooling off period
in between those murders where they goback into their seemingly normal life and go
about their normal business until the urgeto kill rises up again. If the

(05:28):
killing happens in a truncated period,like some people may remember the DC snipers
the DC areas years ago, thatwas what's known as a spree killing because
they never came down from the highof killing. There was never a meaningful
separation or cooling off period between thekillings. They were shooting every few days.
That's called the spree killing. Now, I'll take it a step further.

(05:51):
A few years ago, actually,I think it was in two thousand
and five, the FBI said,you know what, for our purposes,
for the purposes of detection and apprehension, we're going to reduce that definition in
criteria to simply two individuals who aretwo victims in separate crime scenes. And

(06:12):
they even eliminated the cooling off period. So for their purposes, for the
purposes of the FBI, they thinkthat it really doesn't matter. I will
tell you, as a criminologist,someone who is very deeply involved in the
psychology and understanding the motivations, notso much. I you know, I
don't carry a gun. I'm notan FBI agent. I study the mind,
and for me, that classic classicdefinition of three separate killings, cooling

(06:36):
off period in between still resonates forme, and that's the definition I use.
Okay, I want to talk aboutsome cases, and I also want
people to feel free to join theconversation. So I'm just going to throw
the number out there are six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty, six one, seven, nine, ten thirty. Feel
free to join the conversation. Theearlier you call, the earlier we can

(06:59):
get you won, by the way, and we will have I can talk
to Scott Bond all night long tobe really honest with you, but I'd
like to hear from you. Iwant to talk about a couple of these
individuals who just to me have wereshocking. Okay, one that and again

(07:21):
some of it is the time inwhich they're caught. I think of this
guy, John Wayne Gacy, thisguy out of Chicago who who played this
role where he was Uh, hewas a clown. He had an interest
in kids, entertaining kids. Littledid we know that he was killing them.

(07:43):
Uh. And if I recall andmy memory on some of this stuff
is going to be a little foggy, and I know yours will be much
better. He buried them like underhis porch if I'm not mistaken, or
in his yard. Yeah. Yeah, Well John, you know John Wayne
Gacy, the so called killer clown, And I mean he's one of the
most you know, iconic of theserial killers. If if there was a

(08:05):
mount rushmore of serial killers, fourof them there, he would probably be
one of them. And okay,I'm glad I started off with him.
Then No, absolutely, and andand the you know, his his alter
ego, as you mentioned, wasPogo the Clown. Now this was not
this, this crown clown character wasnot part of his killing. It turns

(08:28):
out that when he was not killing, and when he was not going about
his normal life, he liked togo to children's hospitals dressed up as Pogo
the Clown and entertain the kids.And uh and and this was complete disconnect
from his killing. So he didn'the didn't prey upon the kids in the
hospital. This was just something heenjoyed doing. Okay, So now let
me ask you. I got tostart to ask you some medical questions here.

(08:50):
Okay, this prompts at Yeah,yeah, is this is this somebody
who hasn't. Again, I'm alawyer, I'm not a medically trained But
is this someone who has such aserious split personality that on Monday he can
be Pogol the clown and really provideentertainment to children in hospitals, and on

(09:11):
Tuesday he can be John Wayne Gacy. Great question, Dan. The answer
is he was not mentally ill ina clinical or legal sense. And in
fact, one of the things thatI one of the things that I debunk
in my show is the myth thatserial killers are all mentally ill. It

(09:35):
turns out that about eighty percent ofthem clinically, according to the American Psychiatric
Association, would be considered either sociopathsor psychopaths, which are not considered clinical
mental illnesses. They're considered antisocial personalitydisorders for which there is no known cure.
And Gacy is a classic psychopath.He is an individual who was born

(10:03):
with a brain that simply doesn't worklike the normal brain, particularly when it
comes to impulse control. The frontallobe of the brain controls impulses. That's
what keeps us from just acting outon anything impulsively that we want to do.
In the case of a psychopath likeJaycy, that part of the brain
just doesn't work. It just doesn'tlight up. It really doesn't work.

(10:26):
Also classic factor related to a psychopath. They are biologically genetically inca capable of
forming a normal, empathetic emotional connectionwith another living thing. I like to
use the analogy of a hair dryerhere. If you have a hair dryer
with an electrical cord and you pullit out of the wall, you got

(10:48):
a useless hair dryer. Well,when it comes to empathetic connection, a
psychopath is disconnected. That empathy cordis simply pulled. They can't feel it.
They can't feel shame, remorse,killed, even fear, which is
why that they can They can hurtpeople with him impunity. Now Gacy you

(11:09):
mentioned you know, was he asplit personality? No? What they what
they have the ability to do andand Ted Bundy could do this, Gasey
could do this. Uh. DennisRaider bind torture kill who I got to
know extensively. He was classic atthis. They compartmentalized. It's a psychological
term that allows them to almost flipa switch and take on a different identity.

(11:37):
But it's not in it's not inthe split personality sense where they don't
know that that that this other uhuh. It's not like Sibyl with thirteen
personalities and the twelve other twelve don'tknow that Sibyl exists. No, he
fully recognizes that uh that that thatthat that Pogo is a different identity.

(11:58):
Pogo has a different purpose. Butwhen he's John Wayne Gacy the serial killer,
that's all he's able to focus on, That's all he's able to see.
But then he very effortlessly can flipthe switch and go back to John
Wayne Gacy the family man and father, or flip the switch again and become
Pogo of the Clown. Okay,we're going to take a quick break.
My guest is doctor Scott Bond.He is an expert psychologist, criminologist and

(12:26):
with an expertise in I think oneof the most fascinating studies that you could
have of sick sick people serial killers. We've finishing up here, when John
Wayne Gacy will come back, ifyou'd like to join the conversation, I
think you know the phone numbers werecoming back on night Side right after this
quick break. Now back to DanWay Live from the Window World Nice Sight

(12:50):
Studios on WBZ News Radio, myguest, doctor Scott Bond, and we
are talking about infamous serial killers.I want to wrap up John Gasey here
in one second. He literally murderedthey say, at least thirty three young
men in teenage boys at his homein Northwood Park, Illinois, torturing and

(13:11):
strangling them. What did this guydo for a living? Did he actually
have a job. Yes, yeah, he was a businessman. And in
fact, and this is not inconsistentwith this type of truly organized, meticulous,
psychopathic killer, he actually was awell respected businessman and even was the

(13:33):
jc Man of the Year one yearin the community. He was highly respected
and Gaysey falls into a category ofa serial killer that is known as a
power and control killer. Another myththat I wanted to bunk is the idea
that all serial killers that are thesame, that they're just motivated by sex.

(13:56):
It's not the case. In fact, serial killers come in every race,
ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation,IQ, socioeconomic status, you name
it. But the one thing thatthey have in common, they do have
a common denominator, and the commondenominator is that for them, killing represents

(14:18):
some deep seated psychological need that becomesa hunger over time, and it compels
them to kill. And in thecase of John Wayne Gacy, it was
the destruction of life and he targeted. It's very you know, his pathology
is really deep and complex because hepresented himself to the world as heterosexual.

(14:41):
He was actually married a couple oftimes, but yet he had homosexual desires.
And what he would do is hewould seduce young men, runaways,
you know, very young boys.He would seduce them into his home and
then after having sex with them,he, as you said, would torture

(15:03):
and strangle them. When he wasconfronted about why he did this and was
asked, right, you know,are you a homosexual? And he said,
absolutely not. These were just worthlessand I'm using I'm using his terms
an exact quote. They were worthlesslittle punks and queers who deserved to be
destroyed. Wow, Okay. Andhe buried some of them in his in

(15:28):
his under his porch or something.I remember this, twenty nine, twenty
nine of them. Actually, Imean, this is a case I'm you
know, yeah, And this wasin a normal neighborhood. He lived in
a little a suburb of Chicago,right Northwood Park, that's right, that's
right. And I'll tell you whathappened. I'll tell you. I'll tell
you exactly what happened is he wasunder the radar, or excuse me that
under the radar. He was onthe radar of law enforcement. And a

(15:54):
and a detective went over to hishouse and sat in his kitchen talking to
him without a search warrant. Butthis the cop smelled this horrific smell emanating
from the vents in the you know, the floorboards, and as a result,
he was able to come back witha warrant and they started excavating,

(16:17):
and they found twenty nine corpses underthe house. So he was buried there.
He was burying him in its cellars, what you tell him, in
a crawl space, a crawl spaceunder the house. But get this,
get this, As they were excavating, as they were digging under the house,
the house actually shook on its foundationvisibly as hundreds of millions of worms

(16:40):
were feeding on these bodies under thefoundation. And as they disrupted it,
the entire house shook. Oh mygod. Wow. Okay, let me
get a quick call in for beforewe get to the break, and then
we'll have more calls Bucking in Gloucester. Buck, welcome to night Side.
This is a pretty interesting guest wegot here. Go right ahead, bucktally
totally and a sickening subject. Also. Now, when I was recruited to

(17:04):
come to New York after college,it was seventy seven in New York and
Son of Sam had that whole city, that whole metro area just concerned,
especially women. What was the storyon him? And then I have another
question, go ahead, please sure, Okay, yep, you're talking about

(17:26):
the infamous Summer of Sam nineteen seventyseven when Berkawitz held the entire city in
a death grip, you know,eight million people in just total fear.
And yeah, and Berkowitz. Berkowitzis actually a character that I know extremely
well. I spend an entire daywith him in his maximum security prison a

(17:47):
few years ago. But basically he'sa different kind of serial killer. Berklewitz
truly believed that he was a discipleof Satan, and he he's what's known
as the visionary serial killer. Andthis is a serial killer who believed that
he's getting directions to kill from someexternal force. And that external force could

(18:10):
be God, it could be Satan. It could be the Man in the
Moon, it could be Ronald McDonald, but in for Berkowitz, it was
Satan. And so in seventy sixhe believed that Satan gave him his marching
orders. He bought himself that infamousbulldog forty four Remington Revolver, and shot
his way into legend and the historybooks and along the way, absolutely just

(18:33):
terrorized the city. He wrote lettersterrorized in the city, claiming that Papa
Sam Satan wanted him to kill Andyou're right where the fear just ratcheted up
to an unprecedented level was when lawenforcement realized and the media publicized the fact
that he was targeting young women withlong, dark hair, and women cut

(18:57):
their hair, they eyed their hair, they bought whigs, and by the
summer, by the summer Stam seventyseven, you couldn't even buy a wig
anymore in New York City. Amazing. Bernie was still alive. Gaisey was
executed, Thank goodness. He yeah, you know, just but so burk
Witz. Berkowitz is still alive.I guess they're going to study him for

(19:18):
the rest of his life. Ohyeah, yeah. He was just denied.
He was just denied parole for thetwelfth time. He's not an old
guy, you know, he's stillhe's seventy ish. I forget exactly his
able. He says he he wasborn in nineteen fifty three, so he's
probably what seventy seventy one. Yeah, I don't think he's seventy one yet.
I think he's exactly seventy. Butand he's in good shape. You

(19:44):
know, I saw him. Youknow he's healthy, despite the fact.
I don't know if you if youknow this. When he first went to
Attica back in nineteen seventy seven,they kept him in general population and another
inmate slashed him from ear to ear. He had sixty He almost bled to
death, but they sewed him backup. And let me tell you,
I don't I don't know who didthe sewing job. But it's like the

(20:07):
Frankenstein. I mean, the gashunder his neck is pretty ghastly to look
at. Buck. I hate todo this to you, but I'm up.
I'm up on the news. Ican hold you if you want,
but uh well, we'll take meright on the other side of the news
break. I'll take you quick breakfor some news at the bottom of the
hour with doctor Scott Bonn, apsychologist, criminologist and expert on serial killers.

(20:30):
If you have a question, wewill stick with doctor Bonne. He's
very generous with his time. Tonightuntil eleven o'clock, You're on Night Side
with Dan Ray Foston's News Radio.My guest the psychologists and criminologist, doctor
Scott Bonn. He has an expertiseand serial killers. We're talking with Buck

(20:51):
from Gloucester has a couple of morequestions, and Buck is specifically interested in
the case of David Berkowitz, whois still alive, currently imprisoned at a
correctional facility in New York. Anddoctor Bond has actually spent one day and
with David Berkowitz. I'll tell youit's a it's a it's it's got to

(21:12):
be an experience. Buck Gord,ahead, your your other question if you
like for doctor Thank you, DoctorBond, go ahead, thank you so
much. I just have one otherquestion, Dr Vaughan. Couldn't Adolf Hitler
be considered a serial killer? Well, no, war criminals? Certainly,

(21:34):
go ahead, yeah, yeah,definitely a war criminal, but not certainly
not based upon the FBI definition,which currently is you you committed the murder
your hand, by your hand intwo separate events. By this By this
definition, by the way, CharlesManson is often referred to as a serial

(21:59):
killer, but he was what hewas guilty of, his murdered by proxy.
He was sending out his minions inhis family to kill, kill at
his behest. So it really hasto be at your hand, and it
has to be in, you know, in separate events. Now, Hitler
definitely, I mean he would He'sa classic war criminal for sure, but
he would not be classified as aserial killer per se. But great questions.

(22:22):
Thank you as always for fuel.Thank you guys, that's a great
night. Let me keep going.He'm going to go to Allison from Portland,
Maine. Allison, you're on withdoctor Scott Bond. What's your question?
Oh yeah, Alison, Yeah,Hi. I grew up in the
Northwest and I was born in Seattle, in fact, long before it became
Gatesville and Besosberg and all that.Anyway, And I'm just wondering that two
most there might be some other competitors, but the two most prolistic serial killers

(22:45):
in the country Ted Bundy and GaryLeon Ridgeway. The Green Year of Killers
came from that area. I thinkBundy was actually born in Vermont, but
he lived in Seattle and took home, And so I was wondering, what
on earth is what was it aboutthat reason that could have caused that that
made it so so easy for themto be so prolific and in their depredations.
I've always wondered about that. Well, it's a great question, and

(23:10):
it's really an aberration. There's noif you look at the serial killers and
their actual numbers over the years,they are more of them than what many
people think. For example, inthe nineteen seventies, there were probably about
six hundred and fifty serial killers thatdecade, and in the nineteen eighties it

(23:33):
increased to more than eight hundred.Now since then it's precipitously dropped. I
mean, there's probably in this lastdecade only a couple of dozen serial killers
for all kinds of reasons, bettertechnology, policing, profiling, DNA,
better vigilance and awareness, and soforth. But what you're describing is really

(23:55):
it's an aberration. These are twoindividuals who just happened to become extremely high
profile, iconic in terms of theiruh, you know, prolific number of
killings. But there's nothing that Ican think of. There's nothing about the
region that would have suggested that itprovided an environment for these individuals. They

(24:18):
just they evolved there. It wasmore of an aberration than than anything else.
Sometimes Allison does coincidence. So forexample, I think there's a high
school outside in San Francisco where bothBarry Bonds a great baseball player, and
Tom Brady went to high School' toughto find another high school that had two
premier athletes of that caliber. Sometimesit's just coincidence. Yeah, coincidence.

(24:45):
And there's an interesting and there's anotherinteresting you know, just statistically, there's
a difference between correlation and cause,you know, two things can be highly
related, there can be significant relations, and yet the relationship in itself is
meaningless. And I'll give you anexample I used when I was teaching criminology.

(25:07):
I would tell my students, andI'm being facetious here, I would
ask them if they know about theice cream theory of crime. And they
would say, what are you talkingabout? And I would say, well,
if you look at if you lookat murder, murder, it hits
its peak during July and August ofevery year. Well, ice cream sales
also hit their peak during July andAugust of every year. So is there

(25:30):
a relationship there between, you know, between ice cream and murder. I
don't think so. It's called aspurious relationship. So, as Dan said,
some things are just you know,sort of aberrations. Alice a great,
great questions. They got to keeprolling. Okay, thank you so
much. Talk soon there She goesAlison from Portly May six months, six

(25:52):
one, seven, nine, tenthirty. I want to come. Uh,
we talked about Brokewitz. I gotto talk to you about Jeffrey Dahmer.
I mean, this guy that keptpeople's skulls in his refrigerator if I
if I'm not mistaken, Yeah,it was killed in prison. Ironically,
Burkerwitz, you know, never gotthe death penalty. Dahmer was killed in

(26:15):
prison, but wasn't killed by thedeath penalty. Again, how did these
guys function? How did Dahmer functionin society knowing that he was killing seventeen
men in them well over a decade, you know, Dahmer? If you
know, the cases that we're talkingabout here are the truly, you know,

(26:37):
some of the most iconic cases ofall time and Dahmer also would be
a psychopath, but he also wastroubled. He was an alcoholic, and
so that indicates at some level therewas, you know, there was some
there was some sense of that whathe was doing was perhaps not right.

(27:00):
He was he was a more ofa tormented soul acy had the gasey is
just without a soul. Nothing botheredhim. Killing was was meant nothing.
I think Dahmer it actually at somelevel there was, you know, some
sense of that this this is notright, but yet he was compelled to
do it. Dahmer uh is alsoan interesting character in that I mentioned upfront

(27:26):
that that there's various categories of serialkiller. Dahmer is what is known as
a hedonist lust killer. He isan individual who truly was compelled by sex,
lust and even love. He trulybelieved that that the seventeen young men

(27:47):
that he abducted, torture, killed, dismembered, and ate, that he
truly was in love with them,and the reason that he ate them,
the reason that he that he becamea cannibal, was his endeavor or to
keep them as part of him forever. He thought if he ingested these men,
that he ate them, that theywould somehow be assimilated into him and

(28:08):
his body and his soul, andthey would be with him forever. So,
in his incredibly perverted, twisted way, he actually believed that he loved
these men. Let me ask you, the three that we've talked about,
Berkowitz, Gacy, and now Damer, was there anything any commonality in their
childhood? I mean, you know, we talk about nature versus nurture here

(28:30):
a lot on this show, right, was there some commonality amongst these?
I mean, at some point thesehorrific, despicable human beings were two years
old, three years old, Andif you met them at that time and
you moved back in time, I'msure they were cute little kids. But

(28:52):
I understand your point. I understandyour point. Now. The thing about
Dahmer psychopath, Gasey psychopath, Berkowitz, No, Berkowitz, Actually I think
it would well hearing voices, butnot in the mentally ill sense. He

(29:17):
was not schizophrenic. He was not. He was he did not have bipolar
personality disorder. He did not havepsychotic delusions. It was an obsession.
It was more of an obsession thatthat that that that Satan wanted him to
kill. So It would be reallya a mistake to reduce him and just

(29:40):
say, well, he was mentallyill, because he was actually never he
was never found to be mentally ill. But was he obsessed? Was he
was? He compelled by this?Absolutely? Now your question, you know
your question, how did these youknow, how do you go off the
rails? Is it just something intheir heads? Is it comical imbalance?

(30:00):
Uh? Is it's I just haveto assume that are there people who I'm
asking you probably a simple question thatthen you're going to say, Dan that
that's not a question. Are theresome people who are just born in their
destined to be horrific human beings?No? No, I think I think
that it is a combination of natureand nurture. And I'm going to give

(30:26):
you I'm going to give you aclassic example. I'm going to use Dennis
Raider, now betk torture kill.I'm probably more familiar with him than than
any other serial killer. Now,this is not this is not the absolute
blueprint for becoming a serial killer,but it is common. The story that

(30:47):
I'm about to tell you is it'svery similar to to Dahmer, and it's
very similar to Bundy, and it'salso very similar to the Long Island serial
killer case that you know it's inthe news that I've been very involved with
as well. Now here's what happenedwith rayder Okay. I believe that he
was born a classic psychopath, justdisconnected and emotionally incapable of forming a normal

(31:11):
relationship with other people. Now,at the age of ten, something was
awakened in him. And the waythat it became awakened was he was visiting
his grandmother's farm and grandma killed achicken, and as he watched the blood
squirt out of that decapitated chicken's neck, he became sexually aroused. But at

(31:32):
the age of ten, he didn'teven know what was happening, but he
sure knew he liked the sensation.He knew he liked the feeling. So
what happened was this became a mentalimage. It was burned into his psyche,
and it became a fantasy that hewould repeat and think, like a
loop that would repeat in his mind. And by the time he hit adolescence,

(31:53):
he was masturbating to this fantasy.And then he had a broaden it
out. He had to include women, he had to include bondage, fetishism,
all sorts of things, strangulation andmurder. It escalated. He would
masturbate to these thoughts. Then hebecame a peeping tom. Then he broke

(32:13):
into women's homes and stole their underwear. By adulthood, he was cruising around
Wichita, Kansas, peering in women'swindows, making notes, compiling potential victim
lists, like a catalog of victims. But it took all the way to
the age of twenty eight before hereached what I like to call a tipping
point where he could no longer liveand fantasize about this stuff. He had

(32:38):
to do it, and at theage of twenty eight he was compelled.
It became a hunger that he couldn'tcontrol and he had to kill. And
this guy, according to something I'mlooking at here, he actually corresponds from
prison. He's still alive, he'sserving well. Yeah, I corresponded with

(32:59):
him intensively for for years. Heis now very feeble. He's in a
wheelchair. He broke his hip,he had a he had a stroke.
He's he's really on his way out, but which you know, for the
betterment of yeah, yeah, we'renot We're not going to cry, no,

(33:21):
no, no, no, no, no, I got it.
We're not gonna cry, but Igotta take a quick break and I got
one of the caller on the otherside. This has been a fascinating hour,
h and I'm just, uh,really appreciative that we've done this because
there was so much more for usto learn. My guest is doctor Scott
Bond. We will talk about theevent that's going to occur here in Boston

(33:42):
at the Winery a little bit lateron, well early next week actually,
I think it's the eleventh, Tuesdaynight, the eleventh. We'll take a
quick break, we'll talk to Stevefrom Bridgewater, and then we will we
will bid you ado. But uh, I could have you on every night
of the week. You're a fascinatingguest, and I go through a lot
of guests, trust me on that, Doctor Scott Bond coming back on night
Side. Now back to Dan rightline from the window World night Side Studios

(34:07):
on w b Z the news radio. All right, back to the call
as you go for doctor Scott Bond. And we've got a couple of folks
who are going to try to gethim. Both in. Let's go to
Steven Bridgewater. Steve next on nightside. Go right ahead, Yes, Hi
again. How are you doing tonight? You're doing great, Gotta be quick.
What's your question? No commient fordoctor Bond? Ye all right,

(34:28):
Yes, I got a question forthe doctor. I once saw this program
on TV about about serial murderers,and it seemed like to me they always
seem to lean toward one type ofsex either they did they murder men or
women? Not not a mixture ofboth. Is there is this some type
of connection there, That's what Iseem to notice. Interesting question, doctor

(34:52):
Bond. Uh. Many serial killersdo have a particular type and sometimes down
to even you know, a certainphysical characteristics. As I mentioned earlier in
the hour, David Berkowitz had aphysical type and that is young white females

(35:12):
with long, dark hair. Soyes, they sometimes do have, you
know, a sort of a victimology. And there are other types of serial
killers who actually believe that they havea mission to kill a certain type of
person. There have been serial killers, for example, who have decided to

(35:34):
give themselves the mission to kill homelesspeople. There was a guy in Stockton
not that long ago who was shootinghomeless men. So, as I mentioned,
serial killers are driven by different motives. But to answer your question,
yes, they do sometimes have aparticular type of a physical type of victim.
See a great question. I wantto give the next call a chance
to thank you great question. Letme go to Tom and Lil Tom.

(35:57):
We are very tight on time withdoctor Scott. You gotta have a quick
question, Tom, go ahead,Hello Dan, Hello doctor doctor. My
question is can you speak about doctorserial killers one who especially deal with the
elderly. Yes, yes, thatthat that's the type of serial killer that's

(36:17):
known as a comfort or gain killer. And and this typically is more of
a female type of serial killer.Men rarely that, although they're exceptions.
Men rarely kill for this purpose.Men are much more likely to kill out
of a lustful need or a powerand control need. But it's the women

(36:43):
who are often the uh you know, the the black widow killers and the
killers for insurance money and and uh. And there was Dorothea Puente out in
California with the rooming house killer.She would steal money from elderly people,
take their insurance money, and killthem and bury them in the backyard.
So, yes, it is aparticular type of killer, but it often

(37:05):
is is a female serial killer.I think there was also, was there
not? I believe a nurse outin Northampton, Massachusetts at one point.
Yeh see, I know the casethat you're talking about. I can't think
of me right either. Great question, Tom, Thank you, doctor Bond.
Fascinating hour. People are still callingin there a little late. I
gave them the warning. So you'reat the winery in Boston. How can

(37:30):
folks get followed you on information?How can they get tickets to the event
on Tuesday night? Well, thankyou so much for asking. And it's
it's the City Winery on Beverly andI think it's eighty Beverly Street, and
you can go to Citywinery dot com, slash Boston slash events and type in

(37:54):
serial killers it's Tuesday, June eleventhat seven thirty pm. And then another
way you can do it is youcan also go to my website. I
have a professional website which is docondot com and I'll spell it d O
C, B O N N dotcom And there you can just scroll down

(38:14):
on my tour page and click onCity Winery Boston and you can take you
to the same place to buy tickets. Well, i'd say if I wasn't
working next Tuesday night, I'd bethere in the front row. You are
fascinating guest, one of my topguests. Have you back. We haven't
even scratched the surface, but youexplain it so everybody can understand it.

(38:36):
And these people live amongst us,and look, all of us. None
of us are perfect, but theseare the most imperfect people I think that
I have ever heard of. AndI just want to say thanks for spending
the time with us, and thanksfor spending the time studying. Absolutely,
thank you so much, Dan,and my pleasure, and I'd be happy

(38:59):
to join you again any Thank youso much, doctor Scott Bond. It's
d o c b o n Nlike the city in Germany, d c
b o n N dot com andyou can go down and buy tickets.
He will be here in Boston onTuesday night. Fascinating, fascinating subjects.
All of us, I think,are interested in that subject.