August 8, 2025 • 39 mins
There is an ongoing effort to restore rent control in Massachusetts. Homes For All, a housing justice coalition in MA is pushing for a ballot initiative that would create a statewide “rent stabilization” program that would tie annual increases for most apartments to inflation, with a hard annual cap at 5 percent, but also include some exemptions. Are you for or against rent control? Why or why not?
*The Homes For All Massachusetts Coalition is not available to join this evening’s discussion*
*The Homes For All Massachusetts Coalition is not available to join this evening’s discussion*
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, rent control maybe back on the ballot here in
Massachusetts in twenty twenty six. It's been over thirty years
since it was available in Massachusetts because there was a
ballot initiative back in nineteen ninety four which by a
narrow margin banned rent control in Massachusetts. So there's a
(00:29):
lot of a lot of conversation about this. We just
had a candidate in New York, Zorn Mandami, who was
talking about rent control and free grocery stores, and he
won the Democratic primary for mayor. He may be the
(00:50):
next mayor or he may not. But either way, people
are thinking about it. And the reason they're thinking about
it is because, yes, rent is high. I am not
a renter Philosophically, I don't believe in the concept, but
we'll talk about that. We attempted to invite Carolyn Chow.
She is the spokesperson, I guess, the head of a
(01:12):
group called Homes for All Massachusetts. Sounds great. She was
unavailable tonight, so in her absence, we've kind of walked
over to the other side of the argument, and Greg
Vassel joins us. Greg is with the Greater Boston Real
Estate Board, Greg, how are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'm great, Dan, Thank you so much for giving him
the opportunity to be on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, as I say again, we'll probably have Carolyn on
at some point when she's available. Tell us explain to
us the group that you represent and exactly what your
position is with the group.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
The Greater Boston Real Estate Board is the oldest real
estate trade association in America. It was founded in eighteen
eighty nine by a group of individuals that were trying
to figure out how they could help Boston grow economically, because,
as you remember, Boston was a peninsula and the Board
was formed at a time after the back Bay had
been filled and we had all this new developable land.
(02:13):
Over time, we've grown through five divisions. We handle commercial
property ownership, development and management, multi family residential properties, big
apartment owners, some smaller medium size owners, and then brokerage
of all different kinds, and then financing lawyers, banks, life companies,
(02:34):
people that actually will invest capital in large commercial real
estate projects.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Okay, now let's talk about rent control. How tough is
it to rent in Boston? I mean, everybody wants to
rent in the city. Is there much stock apartments available.
This is the time of year when the students return
from all across the country to Massachusetts and will have
(03:04):
in a couple of weeks, we'll have several incidents of
people driving trucks into bridges on Storrow Drive. But above
and beyond that, I assume that the influx of the
students also increases the cost of rental properties in Boston.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It does. Renting in Boston is very difficult because supply
is not great. We've developed some properties over the past
several years, but there is just not enough to meet demands.
And when we look at the number of colleges and
universities that we have and many of these students live
off campus, it puts further demands on people who can't
(03:45):
live in those units because they're rented out to students.
So it's very difficult, and we understand and totally recognize
the fact that rents are very high and people struggle
and it's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Very frustrating, and that sort of builds up a call
for rent control. What advice do you have to people
who cannot afford to rent in Boston, but maybe you
work in Boston and for them it would be not
only a great convenience, but actually would help make their
(04:22):
life more simple. What you know, again, I realized that
you're not here to advocate for rent control and you
and your purpose is to advocate for the system as
it currently exists. But what advice would you give to
young people or families who are having trouble finding a
place to live in Boston at a price that they
(04:44):
can afford. Is it's simply going to be Hey, face
reality and look outside the city, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Dan, in a perfect world, we look at housing should
be a regional solution and not just a solution for
one community. When you look at housing starts, Boston has
done great work over the past fifteen years, and housing
starts the rest of the Commonwealth really hasn't. And if
you have a functioning public trans system, people should be
(05:14):
able to come into the city from not that far away.
The problem is because we have not done, as a
society a good enough job of changing the rules that
encourage development. We haven't had enough of that peripheral development
outside the city to meet the demands. And it's really
(05:34):
really hard, you know, I honestly, I have children and
they see the situation and they shake their head. I've
got one that's just moved back from DC and Washington,
d C is not cheap, but it's not Boston. So
it's really really difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So let's look at some of the cities. I know
the great Boston area pretty well. Now, there are cities
in towns or towns I should say, where there's scant
rental properties. I think at places like Wellesley and Weston,
not a lot. But there are other communities like Midford, Wooburn.
(06:20):
There are other communities Revere within some proximity to Boston
where there are a lot of new new buildings or
relatively new buildings. Is it just a function that that
the real estate industry cannot even keep up with the demand?
Is that what it comes down to.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
It has been, and then once inflation hit and the
cost of materials went up. One of the biggest things
that we struggle with as an industry is the fact that,
you know, everyone says we need to build a more
affordable product, and we absolutely agree. But when you look
at the cost of land, you look at the cost
(07:03):
of labor, and you look at the cost of materials,
when you go to rent that unit, it comes out
to a higher income level than what you really it
should be your target market. And that's why some of
the things, like you know, we looked at the Community
Preservation Act, which is money that can be used. Maybe
(07:24):
we need to look legislatively at changing the CPA a
little bit to help people in the middle so that
you can subsidize some of these projects a little bit
and get them to a price point that a working
family of four could actually go in and rent or
potentially even buy.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah. One of the things that I believe the real
estate industry was supportive of is the so called MBTA
Communities Act. Yes, I am not someone who likes that
idea because I think it takes away from smaller communities
their right to zone their community in the way in
(08:05):
which they see fit, as long as they don't deny
constitutional rights to individuals. Tell us why the real estate industry,
I think, worked with Governor Baker to make sure that
the MBTA Communities Act became law.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Actually, Dan, we didn't, okay, well, thank you. When the
housing bill that was signed by Governor Baker was going
through the process, we to get some of the zoning
changes that were needed to create housing. We had reached
an alliance with the mass Municipal Association and it's the
(08:45):
first time that that had been done in a long time.
And then this actually was an idea that came from
the legislature and almost fractured the coalition, and Baker went
ahead and signed the bill. So it's not something that we,
you know, were pushing through the process because we were
trying to keep the coalition together and keep the MMA
(09:05):
on board with us. And then when it came to
the end, we felt bad because you know, it had
been it was really historic that they embraced the idea
of more multifamily zoning in their communities. And then when
MBTA communities popped out, we were sort of like, hey,
we didn't have anything to do with this. I mean,
this is something that came from the legislature.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So why do you think Baker made that tactical error
or better question, who convinced Baker to pass the.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I think it's I think if you look at another
law like forty b home rule is great, but if
Massachusetts is going to be successful, you need to have
something that forces communities to do something more. And what
you saw were a lot of communities that didn't want
multifamily zoning they'd have you know, single family lots, acre zoning.
(10:01):
And it's difficult because how do you balance your land
use planning with a growing economy and a greater need
for housing. It's really difficult. I mean, Massachusetts only has
so much developable land, and it's very difficult, you know,
to make those decisions. Because we were founded on the
(10:22):
idea that communities have the right to govern themselves. We
fought this big battle in seventeen seventy five over that
to get away from the king and have all the
towns being able to govern themselves. But now we've gone
to a point where I think we have to start
looking at this a little bit differently. We also struggle
with this in terms of density. You know, a lot
(10:43):
of communities don't like the idea of density. But to
make the economics of housing work, sometimes you have to
build up because you can't build out and build more sprawl.
It's really difficult.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But it sounds to me like even though you folks
didn't support the NBADA Communities Act, that you're not unhappy
that it passed.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, remember, the industry, the business model is to create,
whether it's housing, whether it's commercial properties. So the idea
is if it creates the ability of people to perpetuate
their business, they'll and it's it's a definitely it's a rule.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
The one thing real estate developers really seek our clear,
definable rules so that they know what's expected, they know
what they have to do, they can come up with
a pro former and they can cost it out. So
with MBTA communities, it makes the rules a little clearer,
and it's coming from the state instead of local government,
and which can sort of change things and make things
(11:43):
a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, but there's a uniformity to it as well. I mean,
from that perspective, you're not dealing with a different set
of rules in every different community. But my guest is
Greg Vassel. He is with the Greater Boston Real Estate Board.
We're talking about the potential arrival of rent control. If
you love the idea of rent control, feel free to
(12:06):
enjoin the conversation. I think, morally, rent control is something
that you need to question because I just don't know
how a government has the or a group of people
have the moral right to say to a builder or
a developer, irrespective of what you spent in this property
(12:27):
to develop it and to provide housing. We now are
going to tell you how we're going to keep the
price of that housing down and not allow you to
make the profit that you feel you need to make.
I'm a big believer in the capitalist system, because if
you overprice a product, it will not sell. And if
you overprice housing, people will wait and it will sit
(12:49):
there and it will not be occupied. I compare it
to being going into a grocery store and saying to
the people who run the grocery store, you were charging
too much for that box of cookies. You were charging
too much for that gallon of milt, you were charging
too much for those cherries and that apple over there,
and now we're going to suppress those prices. I just
don't see from we're the moral clare for the moral
(13:12):
certainty springs, and we're that where that comes from. Who
has the right to tell someone else what they can
sell their products or their labor for. But that's philosophical.
If you want to talk about that, that's great. Six
one seven two ten thirty six one seven nine three
one ten thirty. As I say, we did try to
(13:33):
reach out today to a representative of a group that's
in favor of rent Control homes for all Massachusetts, and
we were unable to get Carolyn Shao to join us tonight.
We'll be more than happy to have give her an
opportunity next week. But right now we talk with Greg
Vallis Vassel from the Greater Boston Real Estate Board. If
(13:53):
you like to join the conversation, you have the numbers.
We'll be right back on night side.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
It's nice eye with Dan on Way Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
We're talking about rent control or potential rent control being
on the ballot in twenty twenty six as a voter
initiative petition. I also would love to find out from
some of you how bad is it, how tough is
it in the rental market. You can tell us where
you are renting and what you're paying now compared to
(14:25):
what you might have been paying a few years ago.
And for those of you who have found really good
deals and you'd like to share your good fortune with us,
six months either way, six one, seven, two, five, four
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. Greg,
let's let's get some phone calls going here and see
(14:45):
what people have to have to say about this. Let's
go next to Glenn joins us. Glenn, welcome back to
Night Side. You are on the air with my guest,
Greg Vassel of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Go ahead, Glen, Yeah, I'm going to shock my Republican
and libertarian campadres. I mean, I got a in nineteen
eighty seven, I got a housing vouchure. I couldn't rent otherwise,
and that was before me. I am because of the elderly.
I am in favor. In ninety four, I voted for
I am in favor of rent control.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So what do you pay for rent?
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Are you in a good situation, Glenn or now?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah? I pay three twenty four and the Boston Housing
Authority pays the rest. My rent is nine to seventy five.
My landlord grandfathered me. I'm in a shoe box. It's
a studio. It's not even a one bedroom apartment. It's
a studio. The bedroom is like it's a little alcohol
off the living room.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
What's what's the square footage? Approximately? Oh, dear, I don't.
You don't know how to use my team. Okay, what
floor are you on? What floor you on?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
That's why I'm lucky. I'm on an apartment one on
the first, okay, I don't have.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And so everybody you got a rent voucher going back
to what year nineteen eighty something?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Octob Brady seven. Okay, I've been here forty years. And
what if.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The if the rent right now is nine to seventy five?
What was it forty years ago? Forty years ago or ten.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Years we saved my grand I mean, my landlord was
nice enough to write me up as a charity case.
They're getting thousands of dialism. I mean everybody else is paying.
I don't know what it is, but okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you were a good tenant, and the and the landlord,
the person who owned the building, privately owned building.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
I assume, yes, I'm in private housing. My boucher is public,
but I love.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Private Greig, what do you think about that? I mean,
that's a good deal for Glenn. Glenn. Glenn also is blind.
I know that from other phone calls I've had with him.
So he has an accommodation which has worked pretty well.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
For him, you know. And Dan, that's exactly why some
of these subsidy programs are so vital. And as an organization,
we're really concerned because the Trump administration is looking at
potentially cutting some of those and for Glenn, it's vital
for him to survive, So I mean that's really important.
The difficulty is with this particular rent control proposal, it
(17:26):
is so punitive that that building owner, Glenn, the building
owner that owns your building, won't even be able to
handle his increase in property taxes every year from what
the city is going to be charging him. And we're
seeing this in New York already. You've got to give
property owners a little bit more room. This proposal ties
it to CPI. CPI doesn't include local property taxes, and
(17:50):
those buildings are starting to deteriorate, and it's it won't
take it so much longer before you know that your
living conditions are going to go start the downhill.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, but Greg, Glenn want to know what CPI stands
for Consumer Price index, which essentially is the inflation that
the owners are dealing with. So you know again you
have safe harbor. Glenn. I assume you have been grandfathered
in for however long you have, and you this is
(18:21):
going to be your forever home. I don't think you'll
find a deal like this anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
No, I won't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, so you're happy about that. Yeah, yes, And as
Greg indicated, if rent control passes, it might have an
adverse effect on your landlord. Your landlord might not change
your rent. Maybe he's grandfathered you in and you have
something of a commitment from him, so you're protected, but
(18:49):
he may not be able to do a lot of
the improvements in the building if he's not able to
increase the rent of rights in the building.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I will say one thing, and your guest defense, remember
the guidelines when they had it originally weren't drawn properly.
It wasn't designed to help the poor the meek. I
mean people in the media getting six figures were getting
rent control and some of yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
They were people who Greg, if you want to talk
about that, and just quickly, I remember there was one.
I think there was a state Supreme Court judge who
will remain anonymous, who had a lovely apartment in Cambridge,
I believe, right on the river for an extraordinarily low price.
She had first, I guess, rented the apartment as a
(19:32):
young lawyer and had stayed there for many years. So
she did it legally, don't get me wrong, but she
became sort of the example, if you will, of the
person who was not that she was gaming the system,
but who benefited it unnecessarily from the system. Do you
guys remember who without mentioning names what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, Glenn, you're absolutely right. And
we see this not only here in the example that
you just highlighted, but it happens across the country that
there are people that benefit froments that that don't or
shouldn't be and it and it's wrong. But but and
it's very hard to police because, as Dan said, they
they're they're legally, they get in and then they don't leave.
(20:17):
And that's the problem with rent control. There's no mobility.
So once people get in and there the rents are repressed,
they stay there forever. And now, in some situations you
need to be able to do that because people are
on fixed income. They don't have, you know, a high income.
But it's it's you you end up with bad situations.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like that, and that that also was Glenn's situation, and
he's a fortunate, blessed whatever you want to say, to
be in the situation that that he can afford. Glenn,
I appreciate you calling in. It's a great call. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Sir, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We got to take a break here at the bottom
of the arm. I guess did Greg Vassel. He's with
the Greater Boston real Estate Board. Greater Boston real Estate
Board is a board that I think represents the interest
of real estate people who own real estate in Boston
very well. And again this that we will we are
probably going to be talking about this more going forward.
(21:15):
If you'd like to talk about rent control and advocate
for it or advocate against it six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten
thirty Again not a subject that we have talked about
a lot in recent years, because frankly, it has not
even been on anyone's agenda. But I can see that
(21:36):
agenda is starting to percolate now, and I assume that
Greg Vassel is concerned about it. I just want I
want people to think about it and understand that it
might not be as simple a question as the proponents
would suggest. Back on Night's side, I got wide open
lines here. I'd love to hear if you what your
circumstances are, if you are renting, if you're happy with
(21:59):
it with where you are, or if you are unhappy,
what have you been able to do about it. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
This is Nightside. My name is Dan Ray. It's a
Friday night and everybody needs some Saturday and Sunday coming
up this weekend.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're talking about rental housing stock in Greater Boston, but
it can apply to anywhere because there is an organization
which hopes to get the restoration of rent control on
the ballot here in Massachusetts. These tenant groups have launched
a bid to put rent caps on a statewide ballot
for voters to decide in twenty twenty six. And that
(22:46):
may seem like a long time from now, but it
is really only about fifteen months, believe it or not,
by time November of twenty twenty six comes around with me.
Is the chief executive of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board,
Greg Vassel. He's been a guest in his program previously,
known him very well, and he represents the interest of
(23:07):
the Greater Boston realtors extremely effectively. Greg. Just to put
this in contacts and again, I really we were talking
about I realized we're talking about Boston, and there's more
to it than certainly Boston. There's an entire state. Boston
represents probably, oh, I don't know, ten or twelve percent
of the population of the state. It's a fraction of
(23:29):
what Massachusetts represents. So in Boston, do you know off
he hand how many rent and I'm not trying to
test you here, do you know, if he and how
many rental units are available and what percentage of those?
Since rent control hasn't existed since nineteen ninety four in
(23:50):
Boston or anywhere else in Massachusetts for that matter, what
percentage of housing in Boston either is Glenn's I guess,
subsidized in some form of fashion versus apartments that are actually,
you know, on the free market rental real estate market.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't give you the exact number of rental units
in the city. The city would probably have the most
accurate number for that, but it's in the many hundreds
of thousands. And when you look at subsidized housing, you've
got a couple of different programs, Like in Glenn's case,
it sounds like he has a mobile voucher, so he's
in market rate his but his landlord takes probably a
(24:39):
Section eight voucher. There's other big projects that are all
subsidized that are financed through some of the agencies like
mass housing, mass development, or the Mass Housing Partnership. So,
I mean there's there are many, many different kinds of
multi family residential in the city of Boston that have subsidy.
(25:00):
This depends, you know, in much way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, there's a lot of where the developer goes in
and he will pledge that fifteen percent of the units
would be subsidized. Yeah, eighty five percent would be market rate.
So in theory, you could have someone who's paying a
market rate of let's say, I don't know, four thousand dollars.
What's the average rent in Boston. I mean, it's difficult
(25:22):
to put your arm around it, but is there an
average two bedroom rental price in Boston?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
If you're looking at one bedroom, you're going to definitely
depending on the age of the building, the condition, and
the amenities in the building. You know, there's a lot
of dan gone of the days when when you look
for just a good clean apartment. A lot of people
today want gyms, they want golf simulators, all kinds of stuff.
So you know, if you're looking at a building with
(25:50):
sort of some of the amenities in this marketplace people
are looking for, you're definitely north For a one bedroom,
you're definitely north of three thousand dollars a month. And
then if you're looking at two's, you're probably over four somewhere.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
But at least with four you can split it with
a roommate. Yeah it's a one bedroom. Uh, yeah, this
is it's a more complicated argument. I mean, everybody wants
to pay less for everything. Uh, And there's no bigger
monthly expense that anyone can have either a you know,
a mortgage when you own a property, or rent when
(26:29):
you are are leasing a property. I want to grab
another call or too, but I also want to ask
you about the possibility of as I see it as
a possibility, you have all of these commercial buildings which
are now underutilized in Boston. We'll come to this a
little bit later. What do you think the chances are
some of these underutilized commercial buildings actually can be adapted
(26:52):
and become a rental housing. We'll get to that in
a second. Let me in the meantime, go to Joe. Joe,
You and next on Nightside go ahead, Joe. You're in Lynn,
not in Boston, so.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Dan.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Yeah, I know Glenn, and I'm in mobile housing too,
and my rent is eighteen hundred. That's as high as
littill go. I want to move to Boston, even Glenn
wants me to move, but I.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Second. So your rent is eighteen hundred. How much do
you pay if you have some a subsidy, I.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Pay around over three hundred around that.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Well, you should know what your rent is. Is it
three hundred or is it three fifty?
Speaker 6 (27:30):
No, my portion is three hundred and twenty and housing
pays the rest.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Okay, and you get that because of what I'm what benefits.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I'm on the Section eight I've been on for years.
I've been here for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Okay, fine, Okay, So your income is not adequate to
get rent.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Now I only get thirteen hundred a month and I'm
on a mobile voucher.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Okay, So all of us in some way, so you
could take that voucher with you if you can find
another apartment that would accept you if you wanted to,
you would only have the requirement of three hundred and
twenty dollars a month. If you move sea And how
long is that three d and twenty dollars a month?
(28:17):
About your last is that ever increased or or decreased?
Or is it a flat?
Speaker 6 (28:23):
Voucher? Stays with me as long as I keep it.
If I give it up, it takes ten years to
get it back again. I don't think I'll give it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No way you want to give that up?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Greg.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
A quick question, how many folks we've had, Glenn and
Joe call here. How many folks have mobile vouchers in Massachusetts?
Is it a common you know benefit? And the other
question is how difficult is it these days to get
you know, Joe said, if he gave it up, it'd
be tough to get it back. How difficult does if
(28:54):
he get a mobile?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
There are many, many thousands of people across the state
with mobile vouchers, and he shouldn't give it up because
unless his income situation is going to change drastically, like
you said, it's it takes a long time to get
it back. And with what's you know, with the situation
in Washington today, some you know, there may be funds
(29:18):
that get cut and it will trickle down to the
state and you know it'll be really difficult, So he
should just hang on to what he has and just look.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You know, well, I'm sure he will. I'm sure both great.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
Can I say one thing. I'm looking at an apartment
in Watertown. It's simple. I'm going to see it next week.
No gym know anything. Twenty four hundred a month, I can't,
and my voucher won't pay for it. I think I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Why would you vouch you to not pay for it?
If you have a mobile voucher?
Speaker 6 (29:44):
On explain that they only pay up to eighteen hundred.
Can you help Greg, help me explain that the only
pays Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Usually it's calculated by the amount of the rents and
so like we're so and it's interesting Becau because his
because his voucher is very close to the amount that
Glenn's was. So you know, it's probably not unusual for
one bedrooms to see you know, you're in the three
twenty three, thirty three forty range, and when you jump
(30:13):
up as much as you know, and then in the
two thousands, you know, there's no way that they don't
have enough money to be able to satisfy and go
to those levels.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Okay, So, in other words, Glenn is whatever he I
think he said he was paying three seventy five for
a small unit in Brighton and that the balance was
being paid. I think it was his nine hundred dollars
or something, So that's a I guess a market value
of twelve hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
In Joe's situation, he has a good place, but he
wants to step it up a little bit. And unfortunately
for Joe, the mobile ucture that he has will not
help him. It will only help him a little bit
if somehow, Joe, you hit the lottery. Maybe no, we don't.
We've had this conversation before. We don't have to go
(31:01):
into every physical alligate that you're dealing with, because everybody,
as they get older, mobility becomes more difficult, you know,
irrespect of who they are. So anyway, Joe, appreciate your
call as always, Thank you much. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six months, seven nine three one, ten thirty.
(31:22):
We'll take a quick break. We'll come right back with
Greg Vassel. If you're on the line, I'm going to
get to you. I promise. If you're not feel free.
We will be changing topics at ten o'clock and be
talking about talking with a well known attorney constitutional loss
scholar Alan Derschwitz about a really ugly incident that he
(31:45):
was subjected to uh in Martha's vineyard earlier. Well, not earlier.
I guess it's earlier this week and in the last
few days. We'll leave it like that. I haven't pinned
the date down yet. Back on night Side right after.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
This, you're with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We guess Greg Vassel, he's the chief executive officer at
the Great of Boston Real Estate Board, and we're talking
about the perhaps arrival of rent control, certainly the arrival
of it being a question in the ballot in twenty
twenty six here in Massachusetts. Let me go to New Hampshire,
I assume with New Hampshire. Tony, are you in Epping,
New Hampshire.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Yes, I am. Thank you for paking my call.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You're very welcome. Make it with some Greg Vassal, what's
your comment of question?
Speaker 7 (32:32):
So I'm just gonna kind of go back a little
bit to a time when I used to be a
broker in math, and I used to show some folks
in the communities, the different communities when they're up and
coming and being massively built left and right. I would
bring some folks in, I'd have to bring candidates, and
I'd have to pre screen them. Sometimes it'd be three
times a monthly income, or they might not say that,
(32:53):
but it would be something that would be articulated to
you for who you'd want to bring in for a
proper candidate, and there would be other things within it
needed to be a certain range of score. But I'll
tell you anytime that you had a section eight, you
had a voucher, you had some other assistance, and you
try to bring them into the communities, they would be
a daily rate change within moving date, and almost to
(33:15):
the point of I'm gonna I'm gonna just jump on
a cliff on this one a little bit because I
didn't see it, even though it's a dirty little seprint,
they would adjust the market rates daily to potentially intentionally
keep folks out that have vouchers. So I know that
for a fact. I was in it for quite some time.
And you know, just throw that up.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
How would they time that, Tony.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
What they do is they do they used to do anyway,
and let's say change it. They did a supply and
demand system within their computer systems to come up with
daily rental costs. So it might be twenty four to
twenty one on the first of next month, however, and
they go to twenty six eighty five on the fifteenth,
and then when you get to the seventeenth, that could
be twenty nine to ninety eight. It's just depending on
their move ins and move outs. But sometimes I would
(34:00):
see the price fixing or setting in several different settings
around Boston that would keep the rates above the Section
eight voucher. And it was at the time where they
really wouldn't pay anything about that. It was you know,
let's say, uh community at some place it was twenty
four to nine United the voutch are covered like twenty two.
They couldn't make up the difference at the time, so
they were priced out. And plus you weren't real the
(34:22):
dirty secret was you really weren't supposed to bring those
candidates in even though it's illegal to not take them,
you know.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So, Greg, I'm not sure if this is a practice
that you want to claim to want to.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
I'm glad that I want I'm glad that I walked
away from it, But I just wanted to give like
a little idea on some of the things that folks
are facing. And you know, if you only have so
much disposable income and you're renting it, it's three times.
Or you know the amount of the vouchser covers is
only so much. Sould they be rank control possibly, but
it is gonna uh, you're not gonna have certain things fixed.
(34:58):
You know, certain stuff is going to be pushed aside.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Okay, I want to get Greg to uh to at
least have an opportunity to defend UH realtors. Go ahead, Greg,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Well, the caller is right there. There are practices that
happen that are fair housing violations, and they're wrong and
they're abhorrent and they shouldn't happen. Not everybody does it,
but you know, there are situations where things do happen
and there is discrimination, and for people with Section eight vouchers,
it happens, you know, And I think if you probably
(35:31):
look at like you know, at the mc a D
or the AG's office, you'll see there's cases that they
bring against different organizations and different landlords four Section Section
eight abuses.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Okay, well, Tony, the only did you make your point,
but Greg, but Greg acknowledges that give me an idea.
How far up is Epping, New Hampshire, Tony.
Speaker 7 (35:54):
Oh, we're we're talking probably on the southern Hampshire and
Mouse border. Okay, some about maybe twenty minutes or so
from Hampton Beach by my uh, you know, born and
raised in Salisbury, mass So I have my roots there.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Okay, fair enough? So what does it cost for you know,
a good two bedroom apartment in Epping? Do you have housing?
Do you have rental stock in Epping?
Speaker 4 (36:17):
No? Not at all?
Speaker 7 (36:18):
I own, so I would think.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about does
I'm asking general? I misphrased that does rental stock exist
in Epping? And what would someone who was looking for
two bedroom pay in Epping, which is probably at least
an hour out of Boston to you know, to also
work in Boston. What's what's what's the two bedroom gonna
run you in Epping?
Speaker 7 (36:39):
Bas more more insanely priced than one would imagine for
the outskirts away from Boston and folks would commute to Boston.
I'll give you an estamate. I'd say some of the
rents around here for a two bedroom maybe twenty five
to twenty eight hundred and that is tough affordability for
some folks that have certain restrictions or not enough to
(37:00):
get in. Sometimes some folks will make it where it's
two times a monthly branded. There's little odd figures that
people can skew depending but yeah, the price point in
this region has gone up significantly. We're we're in there Exeter,
We're we're in there Portsmouth. So those those trading areas
have seen incremental growth lately in the housing markets, which
(37:21):
which has thus increased the rentals. You know, Soett it's
getting insane.
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Yeah, well again it's the population continues to grow, I guess,
and we we need to catch up with with housing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
In different areas or else people are going to start
to move to different parts of the country. Tony really
appreciate you call. I enjoyed it was very informative.
Speaker 7 (37:46):
Thank you, Yes, thank you Greg, and thank you Dan.
I appreciate it. That a good night, You're welcome, Thanky
all right, bye, Thank you boy.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
He's a well spoken guy, that is for sure. Great.
Thanks very much. If folks want to get more information
from the Greater Boston Real State Board, I assuming that
there must be a website that they can go and
look at.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, we have a website and then we have our
four divisions, I mean, excuse me, the five divisions that
we have which deal with brokerage, commercial, real estate, multi family, residential.
So yeah, you're more than happy if people have questions
to reach out to us, and we'll do what we
kind of answer them, and.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We will again reach back out to the rent control
advocate Caroline Chow from a group called Homes for All Massachusetts.
They intend to get this on the issue, on this
issue on the ballot in twenty twenty six. And I
assume that under no circumstances with the Greater Boston Real
(38:47):
Estate Board do anything other than oppose rent control statewide here.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You're absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Dan, right, great, Thanks as always, you're you're a great guest,
and I do appreciate the questions and the answers that
you provided. You answered a a lot of my a
lot of my concerns. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Well, thank you so much. Have a good night.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
YouTube. Will we get back when we be talking with
Alan Derschwitz. He was involved in a pretty ugly incident
in an area here in Massachusetts, Martha's Vineyard, which prides
itself on diversity except diversity of opinion and diversity of thought.
We'll be back on Night's side right after the ten
o'clock news
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, rent control maybe back on the ballot here in
Massachusetts in twenty twenty six. It's been over thirty years
since it was available in Massachusetts because there was a
ballot initiative back in nineteen ninety four which by a
narrow margin banned rent control in Massachusetts. So there's a
(00:29):
lot of a lot of conversation about this. We just
had a candidate in New York, Zorn Mandami, who was
talking about rent control and free grocery stores, and he
won the Democratic primary for mayor. He may be the
(00:50):
next mayor or he may not. But either way, people
are thinking about it. And the reason they're thinking about
it is because, yes, rent is high. I am not
a renter Philosophically, I don't believe in the concept, but
we'll talk about that. We attempted to invite Carolyn Chow.
She is the spokesperson, I guess, the head of a
(01:12):
group called Homes for All Massachusetts. Sounds great. She was
unavailable tonight, so in her absence, we've kind of walked
over to the other side of the argument, and Greg
Vassel joins us. Greg is with the Greater Boston Real
Estate Board, Greg, how are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I'm great, Dan, Thank you so much for giving him
the opportunity to be on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, as I say again, we'll probably have Carolyn on
at some point when she's available. Tell us explain to
us the group that you represent and exactly what your
position is with the group.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
The Greater Boston Real Estate Board is the oldest real
estate trade association in America. It was founded in eighteen
eighty nine by a group of individuals that were trying
to figure out how they could help Boston grow economically, because,
as you remember, Boston was a peninsula and the Board
was formed at a time after the back Bay had
been filled and we had all this new developable land.
(02:13):
Over time, we've grown through five divisions. We handle commercial
property ownership, development and management, multi family residential properties, big
apartment owners, some smaller medium size owners, and then brokerage
of all different kinds, and then financing lawyers, banks, life companies,
(02:34):
people that actually will invest capital in large commercial real
estate projects.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Okay, now let's talk about rent control. How tough is
it to rent in Boston? I mean, everybody wants to
rent in the city. Is there much stock apartments available.
This is the time of year when the students return
from all across the country to Massachusetts and will have
(03:04):
in a couple of weeks, we'll have several incidents of
people driving trucks into bridges on Storrow Drive. But above
and beyond that, I assume that the influx of the
students also increases the cost of rental properties in Boston.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
It does. Renting in Boston is very difficult because supply
is not great. We've developed some properties over the past
several years, but there is just not enough to meet demands.
And when we look at the number of colleges and
universities that we have and many of these students live
off campus, it puts further demands on people who can't
(03:45):
live in those units because they're rented out to students.
So it's very difficult, and we understand and totally recognize
the fact that rents are very high and people struggle
and it's frustrating.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Very frustrating, and that sort of builds up a call
for rent control. What advice do you have to people
who cannot afford to rent in Boston, but maybe you
work in Boston and for them it would be not
only a great convenience, but actually would help make their
(04:22):
life more simple. What you know, again, I realized that
you're not here to advocate for rent control and you
and your purpose is to advocate for the system as
it currently exists. But what advice would you give to
young people or families who are having trouble finding a
place to live in Boston at a price that they
(04:44):
can afford. Is it's simply going to be Hey, face
reality and look outside the city, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Dan, in a perfect world, we look at housing should
be a regional solution and not just a solution for
one community. When you look at housing starts, Boston has
done great work over the past fifteen years, and housing
starts the rest of the Commonwealth really hasn't. And if
you have a functioning public trans system, people should be
(05:14):
able to come into the city from not that far away.
The problem is because we have not done, as a
society a good enough job of changing the rules that
encourage development. We haven't had enough of that peripheral development
outside the city to meet the demands. And it's really
(05:34):
really hard, you know, I honestly, I have children and
they see the situation and they shake their head. I've
got one that's just moved back from DC and Washington,
d C is not cheap, but it's not Boston. So
it's really really difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So let's look at some of the cities. I know
the great Boston area pretty well. Now, there are cities
in towns or towns I should say, where there's scant
rental properties. I think at places like Wellesley and Weston,
not a lot. But there are other communities like Midford, Wooburn.
(06:20):
There are other communities Revere within some proximity to Boston
where there are a lot of new new buildings or
relatively new buildings. Is it just a function that that
the real estate industry cannot even keep up with the demand?
Is that what it comes down to.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
It has been, and then once inflation hit and the
cost of materials went up. One of the biggest things
that we struggle with as an industry is the fact that,
you know, everyone says we need to build a more
affordable product, and we absolutely agree. But when you look
at the cost of land, you look at the cost
(07:03):
of labor, and you look at the cost of materials,
when you go to rent that unit, it comes out
to a higher income level than what you really it
should be your target market. And that's why some of
the things, like you know, we looked at the Community
Preservation Act, which is money that can be used. Maybe
(07:24):
we need to look legislatively at changing the CPA a
little bit to help people in the middle so that
you can subsidize some of these projects a little bit
and get them to a price point that a working
family of four could actually go in and rent or
potentially even buy.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah. One of the things that I believe the real
estate industry was supportive of is the so called MBTA
Communities Act. Yes, I am not someone who likes that
idea because I think it takes away from smaller communities
their right to zone their community in the way in
(08:05):
which they see fit, as long as they don't deny
constitutional rights to individuals. Tell us why the real estate industry,
I think, worked with Governor Baker to make sure that
the MBTA Communities Act became law.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Actually, Dan, we didn't, okay, well, thank you. When the
housing bill that was signed by Governor Baker was going
through the process, we to get some of the zoning
changes that were needed to create housing. We had reached
an alliance with the mass Municipal Association and it's the
(08:45):
first time that that had been done in a long time.
And then this actually was an idea that came from
the legislature and almost fractured the coalition, and Baker went
ahead and signed the bill. So it's not something that we,
you know, were pushing through the process because we were
trying to keep the coalition together and keep the MMA
(09:05):
on board with us. And then when it came to
the end, we felt bad because you know, it had
been it was really historic that they embraced the idea
of more multifamily zoning in their communities. And then when
MBTA communities popped out, we were sort of like, hey,
we didn't have anything to do with this. I mean,
this is something that came from the legislature.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
So why do you think Baker made that tactical error
or better question, who convinced Baker to pass the.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I think it's I think if you look at another
law like forty b home rule is great, but if
Massachusetts is going to be successful, you need to have
something that forces communities to do something more. And what
you saw were a lot of communities that didn't want
multifamily zoning they'd have you know, single family lots, acre zoning.
(10:01):
And it's difficult because how do you balance your land
use planning with a growing economy and a greater need
for housing. It's really difficult. I mean, Massachusetts only has
so much developable land, and it's very difficult, you know,
to make those decisions. Because we were founded on the
(10:22):
idea that communities have the right to govern themselves. We
fought this big battle in seventeen seventy five over that
to get away from the king and have all the
towns being able to govern themselves. But now we've gone
to a point where I think we have to start
looking at this a little bit differently. We also struggle
with this in terms of density. You know, a lot
(10:43):
of communities don't like the idea of density. But to
make the economics of housing work, sometimes you have to
build up because you can't build out and build more sprawl.
It's really difficult.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But it sounds to me like even though you folks
didn't support the NBADA Communities Act, that you're not unhappy
that it passed.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, remember, the industry, the business model is to create,
whether it's housing, whether it's commercial properties. So the idea
is if it creates the ability of people to perpetuate
their business, they'll and it's it's a definitely it's a rule.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
The one thing real estate developers really seek our clear,
definable rules so that they know what's expected, they know
what they have to do, they can come up with
a pro former and they can cost it out. So
with MBTA communities, it makes the rules a little clearer,
and it's coming from the state instead of local government,
and which can sort of change things and make things
(11:43):
a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, but there's a uniformity to it as well. I mean,
from that perspective, you're not dealing with a different set
of rules in every different community. But my guest is
Greg Vassel. He is with the Greater Boston Real Estate Board.
We're talking about the potential arrival of rent control. If
you love the idea of rent control, feel free to
(12:06):
enjoin the conversation. I think, morally, rent control is something
that you need to question because I just don't know
how a government has the or a group of people
have the moral right to say to a builder or
a developer, irrespective of what you spent in this property
(12:27):
to develop it and to provide housing. We now are
going to tell you how we're going to keep the
price of that housing down and not allow you to
make the profit that you feel you need to make.
I'm a big believer in the capitalist system, because if
you overprice a product, it will not sell. And if
you overprice housing, people will wait and it will sit
(12:49):
there and it will not be occupied. I compare it
to being going into a grocery store and saying to
the people who run the grocery store, you were charging
too much for that box of cookies. You were charging
too much for that gallon of milt, you were charging
too much for those cherries and that apple over there,
and now we're going to suppress those prices. I just
don't see from we're the moral clare for the moral
(13:12):
certainty springs, and we're that where that comes from. Who
has the right to tell someone else what they can
sell their products or their labor for. But that's philosophical.
If you want to talk about that, that's great. Six
one seven two ten thirty six one seven nine three
one ten thirty. As I say, we did try to
(13:33):
reach out today to a representative of a group that's
in favor of rent Control homes for all Massachusetts, and
we were unable to get Carolyn Shao to join us tonight.
We'll be more than happy to have give her an
opportunity next week. But right now we talk with Greg
Vallis Vassel from the Greater Boston Real Estate Board. If
(13:53):
you like to join the conversation, you have the numbers.
We'll be right back on night side.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
It's nice eye with Dan on Way Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
We're talking about rent control or potential rent control being
on the ballot in twenty twenty six as a voter
initiative petition. I also would love to find out from
some of you how bad is it, how tough is
it in the rental market. You can tell us where
you are renting and what you're paying now compared to
(14:25):
what you might have been paying a few years ago.
And for those of you who have found really good
deals and you'd like to share your good fortune with us,
six months either way, six one, seven, two, five, four
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. Greg,
let's let's get some phone calls going here and see
(14:45):
what people have to have to say about this. Let's
go next to Glenn joins us. Glenn, welcome back to
Night Side. You are on the air with my guest,
Greg Vassel of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Go ahead, Glen, Yeah, I'm going to shock my Republican
and libertarian campadres. I mean, I got a in nineteen
eighty seven, I got a housing vouchure. I couldn't rent otherwise,
and that was before me. I am because of the elderly.
I am in favor. In ninety four, I voted for
I am in favor of rent control.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
So what do you pay for rent?
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Are you in a good situation, Glenn or now?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah? I pay three twenty four and the Boston Housing
Authority pays the rest. My rent is nine to seventy five.
My landlord grandfathered me. I'm in a shoe box. It's
a studio. It's not even a one bedroom apartment. It's
a studio. The bedroom is like it's a little alcohol
off the living room.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
What's what's the square footage? Approximately? Oh, dear, I don't.
You don't know how to use my team. Okay, what
floor are you on? What floor you on?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
That's why I'm lucky. I'm on an apartment one on
the first, okay, I don't have.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And so everybody you got a rent voucher going back
to what year nineteen eighty something?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Octob Brady seven. Okay, I've been here forty years. And
what if.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The if the rent right now is nine to seventy five?
What was it forty years ago? Forty years ago or ten.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Years we saved my grand I mean, my landlord was
nice enough to write me up as a charity case.
They're getting thousands of dialism. I mean everybody else is paying.
I don't know what it is, but okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So you were a good tenant, and the and the landlord,
the person who owned the building, privately owned building.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
I assume, yes, I'm in private housing. My boucher is public,
but I love.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Private Greig, what do you think about that? I mean,
that's a good deal for Glenn. Glenn. Glenn also is blind.
I know that from other phone calls I've had with him.
So he has an accommodation which has worked pretty well.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
For him, you know. And Dan, that's exactly why some
of these subsidy programs are so vital. And as an organization,
we're really concerned because the Trump administration is looking at
potentially cutting some of those and for Glenn, it's vital
for him to survive, So I mean that's really important.
The difficulty is with this particular rent control proposal, it
(17:26):
is so punitive that that building owner, Glenn, the building
owner that owns your building, won't even be able to
handle his increase in property taxes every year from what
the city is going to be charging him. And we're
seeing this in New York already. You've got to give
property owners a little bit more room. This proposal ties
it to CPI. CPI doesn't include local property taxes, and
(17:50):
those buildings are starting to deteriorate, and it's it won't
take it so much longer before you know that your
living conditions are going to go start the downhill.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, but Greg, Glenn want to know what CPI stands
for Consumer Price index, which essentially is the inflation that
the owners are dealing with. So you know again you
have safe harbor. Glenn. I assume you have been grandfathered
in for however long you have, and you this is
(18:21):
going to be your forever home. I don't think you'll
find a deal like this anywhere else.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
No, I won't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, so you're happy about that. Yeah, yes, And as
Greg indicated, if rent control passes, it might have an
adverse effect on your landlord. Your landlord might not change
your rent. Maybe he's grandfathered you in and you have
something of a commitment from him, so you're protected, but
(18:49):
he may not be able to do a lot of
the improvements in the building if he's not able to
increase the rent of rights in the building.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I will say one thing, and your guest defense, remember
the guidelines when they had it originally weren't drawn properly.
It wasn't designed to help the poor the meek. I
mean people in the media getting six figures were getting
rent control and some of yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
They were people who Greg, if you want to talk
about that, and just quickly, I remember there was one.
I think there was a state Supreme Court judge who
will remain anonymous, who had a lovely apartment in Cambridge,
I believe, right on the river for an extraordinarily low price.
She had first, I guess, rented the apartment as a
(19:32):
young lawyer and had stayed there for many years. So
she did it legally, don't get me wrong, but she
became sort of the example, if you will, of the
person who was not that she was gaming the system,
but who benefited it unnecessarily from the system. Do you
guys remember who without mentioning names what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, Glenn, you're absolutely right. And
we see this not only here in the example that
you just highlighted, but it happens across the country that
there are people that benefit froments that that don't or
shouldn't be and it and it's wrong. But but and
it's very hard to police because, as Dan said, they
they're they're legally, they get in and then they don't leave.
(20:17):
And that's the problem with rent control. There's no mobility.
So once people get in and there the rents are repressed,
they stay there forever. And now, in some situations you
need to be able to do that because people are
on fixed income. They don't have, you know, a high income.
But it's it's you you end up with bad situations.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Like that, and that that also was Glenn's situation, and
he's a fortunate, blessed whatever you want to say, to
be in the situation that that he can afford. Glenn,
I appreciate you calling in. It's a great call. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Sir, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We got to take a break here at the bottom
of the arm. I guess did Greg Vassel. He's with
the Greater Boston real Estate Board. Greater Boston real Estate
Board is a board that I think represents the interest
of real estate people who own real estate in Boston
very well. And again this that we will we are
probably going to be talking about this more going forward.
(21:15):
If you'd like to talk about rent control and advocate
for it or advocate against it six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten
thirty Again not a subject that we have talked about
a lot in recent years, because frankly, it has not
even been on anyone's agenda. But I can see that
(21:36):
agenda is starting to percolate now, and I assume that
Greg Vassel is concerned about it. I just want I
want people to think about it and understand that it
might not be as simple a question as the proponents
would suggest. Back on Night's side, I got wide open
lines here. I'd love to hear if you what your
circumstances are, if you are renting, if you're happy with
(21:59):
it with where you are, or if you are unhappy,
what have you been able to do about it. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
This is Nightside. My name is Dan Ray. It's a
Friday night and everybody needs some Saturday and Sunday coming
up this weekend.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're talking about rental housing stock in Greater Boston, but
it can apply to anywhere because there is an organization
which hopes to get the restoration of rent control on
the ballot here in Massachusetts. These tenant groups have launched
a bid to put rent caps on a statewide ballot
for voters to decide in twenty twenty six. And that
(22:46):
may seem like a long time from now, but it
is really only about fifteen months, believe it or not,
by time November of twenty twenty six comes around with me.
Is the chief executive of the Greater Boston Real Estate Board,
Greg Vassel. He's been a guest in his program previously,
known him very well, and he represents the interest of
(23:07):
the Greater Boston realtors extremely effectively. Greg. Just to put
this in contacts and again, I really we were talking
about I realized we're talking about Boston, and there's more
to it than certainly Boston. There's an entire state. Boston
represents probably, oh, I don't know, ten or twelve percent
of the population of the state. It's a fraction of
(23:29):
what Massachusetts represents. So in Boston, do you know off
he hand how many rent and I'm not trying to
test you here, do you know, if he and how
many rental units are available and what percentage of those?
Since rent control hasn't existed since nineteen ninety four in
(23:50):
Boston or anywhere else in Massachusetts for that matter, what
percentage of housing in Boston either is Glenn's I guess,
subsidized in some form of fashion versus apartments that are actually,
you know, on the free market rental real estate market.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't give you the exact number of rental units
in the city. The city would probably have the most
accurate number for that, but it's in the many hundreds
of thousands. And when you look at subsidized housing, you've
got a couple of different programs, Like in Glenn's case,
it sounds like he has a mobile voucher, so he's
in market rate his but his landlord takes probably a
(24:39):
Section eight voucher. There's other big projects that are all
subsidized that are financed through some of the agencies like
mass housing, mass development, or the Mass Housing Partnership. So,
I mean there's there are many, many different kinds of
multi family residential in the city of Boston that have subsidy.
(25:00):
This depends, you know, in much way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, there's a lot of where the developer goes in
and he will pledge that fifteen percent of the units
would be subsidized. Yeah, eighty five percent would be market rate.
So in theory, you could have someone who's paying a
market rate of let's say, I don't know, four thousand dollars.
What's the average rent in Boston. I mean, it's difficult
(25:22):
to put your arm around it, but is there an
average two bedroom rental price in Boston?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
If you're looking at one bedroom, you're going to definitely
depending on the age of the building, the condition, and
the amenities in the building. You know, there's a lot
of dan gone of the days when when you look
for just a good clean apartment. A lot of people
today want gyms, they want golf simulators, all kinds of stuff.
So you know, if you're looking at a building with
(25:50):
sort of some of the amenities in this marketplace people
are looking for, you're definitely north For a one bedroom,
you're definitely north of three thousand dollars a month. And
then if you're looking at two's, you're probably over four somewhere.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
But at least with four you can split it with
a roommate. Yeah it's a one bedroom. Uh, yeah, this
is it's a more complicated argument. I mean, everybody wants
to pay less for everything. Uh, And there's no bigger
monthly expense that anyone can have either a you know,
a mortgage when you own a property, or rent when
(26:29):
you are are leasing a property. I want to grab
another call or too, but I also want to ask
you about the possibility of as I see it as
a possibility, you have all of these commercial buildings which
are now underutilized in Boston. We'll come to this a
little bit later. What do you think the chances are
some of these underutilized commercial buildings actually can be adapted
(26:52):
and become a rental housing. We'll get to that in
a second. Let me in the meantime, go to Joe. Joe,
You and next on Nightside go ahead, Joe. You're in Lynn,
not in Boston, so.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Go ahead, thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Dan.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
Yeah, I know Glenn, and I'm in mobile housing too,
and my rent is eighteen hundred. That's as high as
littill go. I want to move to Boston, even Glenn
wants me to move, but I.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Second. So your rent is eighteen hundred. How much do
you pay if you have some a subsidy, I.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Pay around over three hundred around that.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Well, you should know what your rent is. Is it
three hundred or is it three fifty?
Speaker 6 (27:30):
No, my portion is three hundred and twenty and housing
pays the rest.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Okay, and you get that because of what I'm what benefits.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
I'm on the Section eight I've been on for years.
I've been here for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Okay, fine, Okay, So your income is not adequate to
get rent.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Now I only get thirteen hundred a month and I'm
on a mobile voucher.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Okay, So all of us in some way, so you
could take that voucher with you if you can find
another apartment that would accept you if you wanted to,
you would only have the requirement of three hundred and
twenty dollars a month. If you move sea And how
long is that three d and twenty dollars a month?
(28:17):
About your last is that ever increased or or decreased?
Or is it a flat?
Speaker 6 (28:23):
Voucher? Stays with me as long as I keep it.
If I give it up, it takes ten years to
get it back again. I don't think I'll give it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No way you want to give that up?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Greg.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
A quick question, how many folks we've had, Glenn and
Joe call here. How many folks have mobile vouchers in Massachusetts?
Is it a common you know benefit? And the other
question is how difficult is it these days to get
you know, Joe said, if he gave it up, it'd
be tough to get it back. How difficult does if
(28:54):
he get a mobile?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
There are many, many thousands of people across the state
with mobile vouchers, and he shouldn't give it up because
unless his income situation is going to change drastically, like
you said, it's it takes a long time to get
it back. And with what's you know, with the situation
in Washington today, some you know, there may be funds
(29:18):
that get cut and it will trickle down to the
state and you know it'll be really difficult, So he
should just hang on to what he has and just look.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
You know, well, I'm sure he will. I'm sure both great.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
Can I say one thing. I'm looking at an apartment
in Watertown. It's simple. I'm going to see it next week.
No gym know anything. Twenty four hundred a month, I can't,
and my voucher won't pay for it. I think I'm stuck.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Why would you vouch you to not pay for it?
If you have a mobile voucher?
Speaker 6 (29:44):
On explain that they only pay up to eighteen hundred.
Can you help Greg, help me explain that the only
pays Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Usually it's calculated by the amount of the rents and
so like we're so and it's interesting Becau because his
because his voucher is very close to the amount that
Glenn's was. So you know, it's probably not unusual for
one bedrooms to see you know, you're in the three
twenty three, thirty three forty range, and when you jump
(30:13):
up as much as you know, and then in the
two thousands, you know, there's no way that they don't
have enough money to be able to satisfy and go
to those levels.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Okay, So, in other words, Glenn is whatever he I
think he said he was paying three seventy five for
a small unit in Brighton and that the balance was
being paid. I think it was his nine hundred dollars
or something, So that's a I guess a market value
of twelve hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
In Joe's situation, he has a good place, but he
wants to step it up a little bit. And unfortunately
for Joe, the mobile ucture that he has will not
help him. It will only help him a little bit
if somehow, Joe, you hit the lottery. Maybe no, we don't.
We've had this conversation before. We don't have to go
(31:01):
into every physical alligate that you're dealing with, because everybody,
as they get older, mobility becomes more difficult, you know,
irrespect of who they are. So anyway, Joe, appreciate your
call as always, Thank you much. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six months, seven nine three one, ten thirty.
(31:22):
We'll take a quick break. We'll come right back with
Greg Vassel. If you're on the line, I'm going to
get to you. I promise. If you're not feel free.
We will be changing topics at ten o'clock and be
talking about talking with a well known attorney constitutional loss
scholar Alan Derschwitz about a really ugly incident that he
(31:45):
was subjected to uh in Martha's vineyard earlier. Well, not earlier.
I guess it's earlier this week and in the last
few days. We'll leave it like that. I haven't pinned
the date down yet. Back on night Side right after.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
This, you're with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We guess Greg Vassel, he's the chief executive officer at
the Great of Boston Real Estate Board, and we're talking
about the perhaps arrival of rent control, certainly the arrival
of it being a question in the ballot in twenty
twenty six here in Massachusetts. Let me go to New Hampshire,
I assume with New Hampshire. Tony, are you in Epping,
New Hampshire.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
Yes, I am. Thank you for paking my call.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You're very welcome. Make it with some Greg Vassal, what's
your comment of question?
Speaker 7 (32:32):
So I'm just gonna kind of go back a little
bit to a time when I used to be a
broker in math, and I used to show some folks
in the communities, the different communities when they're up and
coming and being massively built left and right. I would
bring some folks in, I'd have to bring candidates, and
I'd have to pre screen them. Sometimes it'd be three
times a monthly income, or they might not say that,
(32:53):
but it would be something that would be articulated to
you for who you'd want to bring in for a
proper candidate, and there would be other things within it
needed to be a certain range of score. But I'll
tell you anytime that you had a section eight, you
had a voucher, you had some other assistance, and you
try to bring them into the communities, they would be
a daily rate change within moving date, and almost to
(33:15):
the point of I'm gonna I'm gonna just jump on
a cliff on this one a little bit because I
didn't see it, even though it's a dirty little seprint,
they would adjust the market rates daily to potentially intentionally
keep folks out that have vouchers. So I know that
for a fact. I was in it for quite some time.
And you know, just throw that up.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
How would they time that, Tony.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
What they do is they do they used to do anyway,
and let's say change it. They did a supply and
demand system within their computer systems to come up with
daily rental costs. So it might be twenty four to
twenty one on the first of next month, however, and
they go to twenty six eighty five on the fifteenth,
and then when you get to the seventeenth, that could
be twenty nine to ninety eight. It's just depending on
their move ins and move outs. But sometimes I would
(34:00):
see the price fixing or setting in several different settings
around Boston that would keep the rates above the Section
eight voucher. And it was at the time where they
really wouldn't pay anything about that. It was you know,
let's say, uh community at some place it was twenty
four to nine United the voutch are covered like twenty two.
They couldn't make up the difference at the time, so
they were priced out. And plus you weren't real the
(34:22):
dirty secret was you really weren't supposed to bring those
candidates in even though it's illegal to not take them,
you know.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So, Greg, I'm not sure if this is a practice
that you want to claim to want to.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
I'm glad that I want I'm glad that I walked
away from it, But I just wanted to give like
a little idea on some of the things that folks
are facing. And you know, if you only have so
much disposable income and you're renting it, it's three times.
Or you know the amount of the vouchser covers is
only so much. Sould they be rank control possibly, but
it is gonna uh, you're not gonna have certain things fixed.
(34:58):
You know, certain stuff is going to be pushed aside.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Okay, I want to get Greg to uh to at
least have an opportunity to defend UH realtors. Go ahead, Greg,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Well, the caller is right there. There are practices that
happen that are fair housing violations, and they're wrong and
they're abhorrent and they shouldn't happen. Not everybody does it,
but you know, there are situations where things do happen
and there is discrimination, and for people with Section eight vouchers,
it happens, you know, And I think if you probably
(35:31):
look at like you know, at the mc a D
or the AG's office, you'll see there's cases that they
bring against different organizations and different landlords four Section Section
eight abuses.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Okay, well, Tony, the only did you make your point,
but Greg, but Greg acknowledges that give me an idea.
How far up is Epping, New Hampshire, Tony.
Speaker 7 (35:54):
Oh, we're we're talking probably on the southern Hampshire and
Mouse border. Okay, some about maybe twenty minutes or so
from Hampton Beach by my uh, you know, born and
raised in Salisbury, mass So I have my roots there.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Okay, fair enough? So what does it cost for you know,
a good two bedroom apartment in Epping? Do you have housing?
Do you have rental stock in Epping?
Speaker 4 (36:17):
No? Not at all?
Speaker 7 (36:18):
I own, so I would think.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about does
I'm asking general? I misphrased that does rental stock exist
in Epping? And what would someone who was looking for
two bedroom pay in Epping, which is probably at least
an hour out of Boston to you know, to also
work in Boston. What's what's what's the two bedroom gonna
run you in Epping?
Speaker 7 (36:39):
Bas more more insanely priced than one would imagine for
the outskirts away from Boston and folks would commute to Boston.
I'll give you an estamate. I'd say some of the
rents around here for a two bedroom maybe twenty five
to twenty eight hundred and that is tough affordability for
some folks that have certain restrictions or not enough to
(37:00):
get in. Sometimes some folks will make it where it's
two times a monthly branded. There's little odd figures that
people can skew depending but yeah, the price point in
this region has gone up significantly. We're we're in there Exeter,
We're we're in there Portsmouth. So those those trading areas
have seen incremental growth lately in the housing markets, which
(37:21):
which has thus increased the rentals. You know, Soett it's
getting insane.
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Yeah, well again it's the population continues to grow, I guess,
and we we need to catch up with with housing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
In different areas or else people are going to start
to move to different parts of the country. Tony really
appreciate you call. I enjoyed it was very informative.
Speaker 7 (37:46):
Thank you, Yes, thank you Greg, and thank you Dan.
I appreciate it. That a good night, You're welcome, Thanky
all right, bye, Thank you boy.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
He's a well spoken guy, that is for sure. Great.
Thanks very much. If folks want to get more information
from the Greater Boston Real State Board, I assuming that
there must be a website that they can go and
look at.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yes, we have a website and then we have our
four divisions, I mean, excuse me, the five divisions that
we have which deal with brokerage, commercial, real estate, multi family, residential.
So yeah, you're more than happy if people have questions
to reach out to us, and we'll do what we
kind of answer them, and.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We will again reach back out to the rent control
advocate Caroline Chow from a group called Homes for All Massachusetts.
They intend to get this on the issue, on this
issue on the ballot in twenty twenty six. And I
assume that under no circumstances with the Greater Boston Real
(38:47):
Estate Board do anything other than oppose rent control statewide here.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
You're absolutely correct.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Dan, right, great, Thanks as always, you're you're a great guest,
and I do appreciate the questions and the answers that
you provided. You answered a a lot of my a
lot of my concerns. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Well, thank you so much. Have a good night.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
YouTube. Will we get back when we be talking with
Alan Derschwitz. He was involved in a pretty ugly incident
in an area here in Massachusetts, Martha's Vineyard, which prides
itself on diversity except diversity of opinion and diversity of thought.
We'll be back on Night's side right after the ten
o'clock news
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