March 12, 2025 • 39 mins
Roughly five years ago the world shut down during the Covid-19 pandemic. Years later some are still struggling with what is called “Long Covid,” which is a collection of symptoms that last three months or longer after your first Covid symptoms. What is the prevalence and risk factors of Long Covid? What are some of the symptoms? Julie Sullivan, the Program Manager of the COVID Recovery Center at Brigham and Women’s Hospital joined us to discuss treatments, what you need to know and how to protect yourself against Long Covid!
Long Covid Recovery Center - 617-525-3665
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Long Covid Recovery Center - 617-525-3665
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Coostin's video. All right, Well,
a few nights ago, one of our listeners, regular listeners,
suggested that as we approach, were we really in the
fifth anniversary of the arrival of COVID in this country?
(00:22):
Very difficult to figure out exactly when COVID arrived, I
mean it arrived. It first appeared at a nursing home
I believe in the state of Washington in late January,
early February. Then you had that conference out at the
Long Whaff Marriott which a number of people contracted COVID,
and then all of a sudden it percolated up and
by this time in March of twenty and twenty, we
(00:47):
were all aware that something was going on. We didn't
know what it was happening. Remember we were we weren't
wear masked, not wear masked, all of that. And we
still don't know everything about it. And one of the
things that one of the great mysteries of COVID five
years later is what's called long COVID. And we are
(01:08):
joined again. About a year ago, we talked with my
guest Julie Sullivan. She's the program manager of the COVID
Recovery Center at Brigham and Women's Hospital. It works with
you know, what you would call pulmonary medicine, and Julie
is delighted, delightful to have you back. Thanks very much
for joining us on this fifth anniversary. It's not like
(01:32):
the day they signed the Declaration of Independence two hundred
and twenty three years ago that we can pinpoint when
it started. But you've been involved treating people with long
COVID for quite a while. Where do we stand at
this point? I think there's no question that long COVID
is real. It's not something that's psychological.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Correct, correct, Hi, Dan, I'm nice to be back. Yes,
you're right. This is definitely, definitely a physical condition. It's
a post viral condition, and we've seen things like this
in the past with chroduct fatigue syndrome and other conditions
that are autoimmune that were triggered by viruses. But COVID
has really shown a light on how dangerous post viral
(02:15):
conditions can be and how pervasive they can be.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You sent me some materials today which have had a
chance to look at, and some of these are frightening.
For example, I believe that you're convinced that about ten
to thirty percent of COVID nine nineteen cases. COVID cases
(02:40):
result in long COVID. I mean there were millions of
Americans who contracted COVID. Was there one strain of it
that made people more likely to have long COVID? Or
is that number of ten to thirty percent? I mean
that's a wide number because one one in ten to
(03:02):
three and ten. Just drill down on that for me
a little bit. What are you telling me there? Would
you send me that number?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? Definitely. And so when we talk about long COVID,
we talk about symptoms that persist beyond the usual infection period.
So when we say ten to thirty percent, that includes
people who had camble symptoms for six weeks, eight weeks,
two months in recovery, and so is anything that extends
beyond that period. It's hard to get exact numbers because
(03:30):
some people do recover and everyone's recovery rate is different.
We estimate that six to seven percent have ongoing chronic symptoms.
The first wave the pandemic was definitely the most dangerous,
and we didn't have any community.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, hold on, just want me show six to seven
percent of all US adults. That's that's what we're here,
That's what I believe, Okay, And with everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Knows someone with long COVID. You know, you can talk
to your friends and you'll find someone who says, yes,
I have long COVID, or someone who says, you know,
my breathing never has been the same since I had
COVID two years ago, or have never been able to
exercise to that point.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
By the way, Julie, I'm not challenging on any of
these statistics. I'm trying to re emphasize the seriousness of this.
I have friends, and I think I mentioned and he's
a pretty well known former tennis player, Cliff Richie, who
to this day deals with long COVID. And Cliff was
one of the healthiest individuals that I have ever known.
(04:35):
You know, he's a he's a little older, you know,
he's in his late seventies at this point. But there
are days when I'll call him on the phone and
he'll just say, Dan, I can't talk. I mean, and
he literally is, and he's it's just it's some people.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Some people are bet bound and homebound. It's that severe.
So just like when you contract COVID, there's a difference
in severity where some people you know, can go into
respiratory failure and die and other people have no symptoms.
There is also a range with long COVID, and it
is scary because every time you can tract COVID, you
increase your risk of developing long COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
WHOA now, now, real quick question here, and I want
to stay with the notes that you sent me are
which are just unbelievably scary. COVID is still around the
The Department of Health here in Massachusetts releases statistics every week.
It doesn't get into the written newspaper. I don't see
(05:40):
it in the globe of the Herald, but there's always
you know, seven, eight, ten people who pass away from
COVID and that's that's a lot of depths over the
course of a year in one state. Do we have
and I know this may get into not into your
area of expertise, What can you hear about the possibility
(06:02):
that you know, we've been told now it's always going
to be with us, like the flow, it's never gone away.
Is that is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think it is, although we're certainly not doing anything
to make COVID go away. You know the numbers I
think the reporting is still it's still underreported because people
are not testing for COVID and they're not treating COVID
when they have it and not preventing transmission of it,
and that perpetuates the matter as it continues to evolve
(06:30):
and it continues to make new variants to stay in
our systems, and that is scary because it can mutate
to get more dangerous, to be more contagious, and we've
seen that happen over the course of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do you think that at some point in the future
it's conceivable that we could be looking at a repeat
of twenty twenty or is that the worst of it,
and that it may come back in various income our nations,
but it's never going to come back with that intensity.
What's your thought on that?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, my thought is that we have more pandemics ahead
of us, maybe not COVID, but other viruses, you know,
the H one, N five and a lot of these
viruses that are pretty dangerous and circulating could transfer over
to humans and become pretty deadly to humans again, So
I think we always have to be very conscious of that.
I don't know that COVID itself would evolved to become
(07:28):
more dangerous. That there are other coronaviruses that certainly could
develop to become dangerous.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And the problem, I think is that when when COVID
really hit, and it hit with the intensity that that
those of us you know, who were around at that
time and over a certain age, I think if you
were over ten years old, you recognized that this was
this was a pandemic and that was a big word
(07:54):
that people were getting used to, an epidemic of international
proportions that that we kind of did rally and everybody
was a little more careful. But I feel that as
time goes by, we're getting sloppy again. Not that I
want everyone wearing masks or anything like that, but it
just seems to me that if it's not in the
(08:15):
forefront of our mind of our minds, that gives that
puts us at a collective disadvantage. And I don't use
the word collective a lot, because I'm not I'm not
a fan of that word. But if I don't take
care of myself and watch out, it might come back
to I might not get it, but maybe somehow I
(08:36):
will transmit it to you or to someone else. Am
I crazy?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
When I talk that way, No, I think you're right.
I think we have gotten really sloppy. We learned some
really important things during the early days of the pandemic
around washing our hands and avoiding crowds and not sanitizing
after you touch high contact surfaces, staying home when you're
sick to protect other people, and a lot of those
just basic respiratory egien and infection control practices we've really
(09:02):
slipped away from. And I think that's also why we
saw such surgeons of viruses in general this winter, with
flu A and flu B and RSV and the neurovirus.
So it's been a messy winter for sure for viruses
and a lot of infections control and respiratory hygiene could
see people a lot of grief.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
My guest is Julie Sullivan. Julie has been on the
front lines of the COVID battle for many years, for
five years and probably realistically before that. Julie is currently
the manager of the COVID Recovery Center at Brigham and
Women's Hospital. You have dealt with a lot of people
over the last few years, without again identifying people, I
(09:49):
want to drill down in our next segment, what have
you been doing. How do you pull people out of
this pit of despair? And it is a pit of despair.
And if you do, you have any questions and you'd
like to talk with Julie, all you've got to do
is give us a call six one seven, two, five,
four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one
ten thirty. We'll get to phone calls for Julie Sullivan.
(10:11):
Your questions about COVID, about your situation. Feel free to
ask whatever ever questions you like. As I learned many
years ago in law school, the only dumb questions of
the questions you don't have the courage to ask, because
that's the one that's going to be in the midterm
or the final exam. Six one seven, five four ten thirty,
(10:32):
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. My name
is Dan Ray, Delighted to be joined by Julie Sullivan
on the topic of recovery from long COVID Back after
this Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
World night Side.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My guest is Julie Sullivan. She is an expert on
recovering from long COVID UH. She works at Brigham and
Women Hospital, in the COVID Recovery center, She's dealt with
lots of people over time. Julia Kinda, this may be
a question that is beyond your realm of expertise. I
(11:12):
suspect it isn't, but just in case.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
One of the things about COVID that has struck me
as curious, and that is, when you buy or you
get from the government COVID tests, they don't seem to
have a long life expectancy. And my suspicion is that
there's a lot of people listening to the program tonight
who have never checked the use by date on their
(11:39):
COVID test packets, and when they need to use them,
they're going to find that they are theoretically out of date.
How come, and this again maybe beyond your realm, how
come our government could not come up with a test
which which would maintain its capability for more than just
a few months.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's a good question that is beyond my realm of expertise, actually,
and I.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Don't know to me that that if for you, four
months from now or next September, something like COVID comes
roaring back, we're all going to go to our uh,
you know, to our medicine cabinets and pull out some
some tests. What you're gonna say, well, this expired, you know,
a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, well you could be like me and and replenish
your COVID tests and especially so before every search. So
that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's okay, solid advice. Let's uh, let's get some phone
calls and see what see what people have to say. Again,
if you've had an experience and you want to compare notes, uh,
if you want to talk or ask a question, you're
more than welcome. Let's go. First off to Steve and Lynz. Steve,
welcome your first ISS hour with Julie Sullivan talking about
long COVID.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yes, how you doing it?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Then?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I never got checked. I've never had the call. They
had the flu from a flu shot, and I got
COVID in twenty twenty one on our tour of fourteen
and I spent four months in the Mass General in
six weeks in a coma in five weeks. One how
to walk. I just don't want to bother everybody because
(13:17):
I know your phone is probably busy.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And so wait a second, so they gave me a Steve, Steve,
just pay with me for a second. You've thrown a
lot at us. Let's absorb it because your experience is
important to talk about. So you had never really been
someone who who contracted this stuff? Is what you? What
I think you said? Did? You were a pretty healthy individual?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Very very okay?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Ed?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Did you go ahead and get the COVID shots or no?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
In twenty one No, I didn't even know there was
anything out there that early.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Okay, so walk.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Available.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, Steve, just listen to what Julie's going to ask
you here, Okay, please. You know, I know you want
to get your story out, and I want to get
it out because I think it's going to be important.
But you just got to also give us a chance
to interact with you. Julie, you had a question or
a comment for Steve.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It sounds like Steve contracted COVID before all of the
vaccinations are readily available, and I'm so sorry that you
experienced that. It's not unusual, you know, people get very
stick with COVID, but there's just something that they don't
quite understand yet in our DNA or our immune system
that individual to each person that dictates how your body
(14:39):
responds to COVID. And so you had no reason to
think that this virus would affect you so badly. But
it's it's just a special kind of virus. And I'm
so sorry that you went through that, and you're continuing
to go through that.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I want to ask you a question, Steve. You said
that you contracted COVID in October of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah, October fourteenth. Even though I was sick, I had
double pneumonia, just like I had a problem breathing. Were
you passed out during I was going to the bathroomen,
I passed out and thank god somebody was there to
call me an ambulance.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Were you aware? Were you aware, Steve, that there were
COVID shots that by October of twenty twenty one were available?
Not really? Okay, so you don't remember.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I could have That's that's another thing that happened. My
memory is just my short term memories wiped out.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
How is this? Are you back to work or what's
your life like today?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I don't know. I'm disabled. It gave me neuropathy. My
legs swello up, my cap on, my knees down, they
swell up like four times the size of my normal's calf. Hey,
my sense of smells not back. Even nobody's from me
to be normal and.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Seeing Steve, are you seeing doctors or are you in any
sort of a program at all? Or no?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I have a doctors and I've been
checked by all cons of people. Plus i had ostio.
Its like a deal with that, but it made that
like three times as painful.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Let me ask you this question, Steve, if I could
ask how old are you?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I'm sick. I'm sixty to you right now.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Sixty three. So it's a pretty good chance you might
never work again.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh I can barely. I can't walk a couple of
hundred feet. I have to walk with a cane.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Now, okay, Julie, Is I assume you deal with folks
like Steve fairly frequently? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Is Steve you're your quintessential sort of patient or is
he an exceptionally impacted patient?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know what Stinus describing is what COVID does. It
causes an ongoing inflammatory and immune response, and that's why
he's continuing to suffer to this day. You know, if
it was a one and done and then you just
could heal from it, like a stroke or something like that,
that would be one thing, but the virus stays on
in your system and continues to recapog and that's what
(17:30):
makes recovery so challenging.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
What what advice would you have for Steve kN again?
Should he be someone who's calling your program or should
he be reaching out? Are there similar programs on the
North Shore that might be more convenient for him? What
can we do for him at this point?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, so I would recommend that. It sounds like, were
you connected with MATH general still? Is that where you're hospitalized? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
so it would be good to stay connected with them.
You know, when it comes to along COVID programs, there's.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Not a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
We were very fortunate to have three here in the
Boston area at Sigum and Women's and Beth Israel Deaconness
of Boston Medical Center. But one thing, and we can
talk a little bit more about this, is that what
we offer is an addition to medical support for people
experiencing long COVID and post hospital issues from COVID is
access to clinical trials and then a lot of community
(18:28):
support and the ability to connect with other people who
have long COVID and understand what you're going through and
so we have support groups and we do a lot
of community building, and we have presentations from experts and
the weekly newsletter to keep people updated on the latest
with COVID research because of this changing. So I think
it would be wonderful for you to be connected with
(18:50):
something like that and then also get to maintain hope.
You know, we really hope that in the next couple
of years they're going to develop some focused treatments for
COVID that will still up this ongoing effect that's having
on your body. And well, you may not, you know,
get back to one hundred percent, and it's likely you won't. Unfortunately,
you might be able to feel better than you do now,
(19:10):
and that's the hope that everybody can get at least
better than they are now with good treatments.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Julie, we're going to be able to give the number
of the phone number for your facility, So could Steve
call there and get some more specific guidance based upon
where he lives if he calls there sometime in the
next day or so.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, absolutely absolutely, And we see people from from across
the state and people out of state as well.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Great, Okay, Steve, we will give this number a couple
of times between now and the end of the show.
So why don't you get yourself a pencil piece of
paper and we'll give the number that I would advise
you to give a call tomorrow and they may have
some some help for you.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Okay, right, I just I just pray to God that
nobody else goes for this because this is horror.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Okay, well, just again, at least we're going to get
you a contact number for you to call tomorrow and
make that your task of the day. Thanks Steve, hanging there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Okay, thank you very much for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You're welcome, Thank you for calling. We take a quick break.
My guest is Julie Sullivan. We're talking about long COVID.
Julie is associated with Brigham and Women's Hospital. She has
been dealing with this battle now for years. Your questions
are welcome. And Julie, why don't we give that number
out at least now, and then we'll give it out
(20:36):
a couple more times. How can people reach out to
the recovery group at Brigham and Women's and maybe get
referred on or maybe become a member of your greer.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, and I want to struss that if you if
you want to be in our program, you are in
our program. We don't have enrollment criteria. You don't have
to be seeing a doctor at Britain and Women's in
order to be in our program. We want everyone who
suffering effects of COVID to be part of our long
COVID community and have access to the resources that we have. Okay,
So I'll keep you.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
The phone number.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yep, yep at six yep five two five m three
six six five.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Okay, So six one seven five two five three six
sixty five and I assume that's a nine to five number.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It is, yeah, Okay, great, We'll.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Be back with Julie Sullivan talking about long COVID. Your calls,
your comments, your questions are welcome. We'll do this until
about ten o'clock and we're going to change topics at
ten o'clock. So get on the line right now. One
line at six one seven, two five four to ten thirty.
One line at six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
This is an opportunity to for you to ask questions
or maybe even like Steve, find some support, if not help.
(21:49):
Back on Night Side right after the news. We're a
little late for the news, but here it comes right now.
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WAZ Boston's
news Radio. All right, we're talking with Julie Sullivan. She
is the program manager for the COVID Recovery Center at
Brigaman Women's Hospital. We gave that number earlier six one seven,
(22:11):
five two five three, six sixty five. We will give
it a couple of more times between now and ten o'clock.
Let's keep rolling here, going to go to Larry out
of the Cape. Larry, you are involved in this matter
of fact. You are the person who suggested Julie join us.
Thank you for that suggestion, go right.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Ahead, Thank you for discussing this most important subject. And
thank you Julie for everything to do for our group.
I've been struggling since November of twenty twenty one. And
I was healthy. I'm an avid. I was an avid
mountain biker. I'd go out and do fifteen twenty miles.
And the problem that I'm dealing with is if you
don't if people that don't know anybody with long COVID,
(22:51):
they think it's just a virus, they don't bother testing,
and they look at me and they say jeez, Larry,
you look great, but they don't realize what I'm struggling with.
One of the it's a roll of coaster ride. So
my problem is yesterday I was on my favorite trails
down in Brewster and Howish mountain biking. I kept it
to half my normal distance. I felt really good. Today
I woke up and it's called a crash. My whole
(23:13):
body just shut down because I did too much. And
I have to learn to pace myself and the doctor.
The mainstream doctors, like Julie said, they don't know what
to do. And I'm fortunate enough to have a functional
medicine doctor that I'm dealing with, and I've been taking
some herbal supplements and I might gradually be getting better,
(23:35):
but it's a lot. It's been what four years now,
and it's been a tough battle.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Julie, I assume that you've heard that type of story before.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Correct, yes, yes, and you know. And Larry's a wonderful
advocate for people going through this condition. And what he
said is absolutely true is that it's an invisible condition.
People may look okay from the outside, but you don't
realize how much they're suffering and how limited they are.
And yes, what Larry's describing is called post exertional malaise,
(24:07):
and it's a systemic, whole body reaction when you push
yourself too far. It's not like your regular fatigue. If
you have a hard workout and you feel sore and
tired the other day. The next day, this is a
profound fatigue. People may run a fever. They see you're
very ill, and it can take a long time to
feel better, days and sometimes weeks to crawl out of
(24:28):
a crash.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's amazing at what you've described, you know, over the
years to us, and again thanks for suggesting. Uh, Julie,
she's She's clear and concise and right to the point.
Thank you so much, as all tomorrow. Hope you.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
We go next to Raise Up and Lowell Ray You
are next on Nice Ie with Julie Sullivan of the
Long covid SE, the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigaman
Women's Hospital in Boston.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Go ahead, right, Hi, Dan, Hi Dan, Hi, Julie.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Hey, yeah, hey, I just wanted to make a statement
and then ask a question and then I'll hang up
and listen to the response. If that's okay.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I make your statement, ask you a question, and don't
don't hang out.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Go ahead, okay. I was watching the show last night
on a station called day Star, and there's a show
that they have on there. I think this is really
important for your listener. And I was wondering what Julie
thought about this, Uh, this day Star network, and it's
(25:43):
there's a show on there called Joni Jo and I
Table Talk and they had a doctor on there.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
His name is Brian Artists a R D I S.
And he was dealing with this long COVID sence situation
and he bam on the show last night that there
are two studies, one I think he said, was in
Great Britain, one in France, and some entity is testing
(26:12):
this theory in the United States. But anyway, what he
claimed was he said with long COVID. He said, they
found in the France and the Great Britain study that
not ninety percent, not eight percent, but one hundred percent
of the people that did what I'm going to say
now recovered from long COVID. And he said, if they
(26:35):
put on a I think he said seven milligram nicotine
patch on their skin for six days that the long
COVID goes away, and he said the study was not
ninety nine percent effective, but was one hundred percent effective
with those tested. He has a book out and it's
called The Nineteen Myths of COVID, And again the doctor's
(26:59):
name is doctor Brian Artists. Aidis the question I had
is if Julie ever heard of him, and if he's
heard of this book, the nineteen Mess of COVID by
Brian Artist and the a of this nicotine patch study
along COVID suffers.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
So let's stay right here, stay right there. Let's let's
get a response from Julie and this this okay, this
sounds almost too good to be true.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Julie, I know what those Yeah, I know what those Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I haven't heard of Brian Artists, but I'm really interested now.
I will definitely look him up and look that book up.
I have heard of nicotine patches and that is being
used as a treatment. It's helping some people significantly with
fatigue and with brain fog. There are a few studies
that are going on right now testing it. What we
find this long COVID frustratingly is that we haven't found
(27:50):
one treatment that works for everyone, and there seem to
be different subtypes of COVID, and so for some people
a nicotine patch, which does certain things with the seat
of coline receptors, can really help their symptoms, and then
for other people it doesn't help. So it is being
studied and we are we are using it here as
(28:10):
well and suggesting it to certain patients. It comes with risks,
you know, you'd have to really clear it with your doctor.
It could increase your heart rate, and you want to
make sure that it's a healthy thing for you to do.
Some people who have tried the nicotine patch had to
discontinue it because it made them feel really sick. So
it's not a panacea, unfortunately, but it is one of
the treatments that's being used for long COVID.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And again I had one other quests and Dan, I
feel proment me.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I got to be quick, go ahead, rakes them up
my break or right ahead?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Okay, yeah, I understand, I understand. And he was a
big proponent of ivermectum. He said that it's not getting
the positivity that the international medical community has given and
he said it's not just what the people have claimed
in the past, but it was a horse tranquilize and
something like that. But anyway, doctor, I'm on the nineteen
(29:01):
miths of covid or something like that, and I just
wanted to bring that to your attention and the Jeweler's
attention and hopefully you can learn more about that than
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, thanks, Ray, I'm remex it something that's tossed around
quite a bit. I don't know if you want to
me to answer now or if you need to take
a break and come back to it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
No, I could take a quick answer again. I know
that there were some who suggested that, well, I think
that that the key the drug, that the treatment that
people have agreed upon is paxlovid. That if you get paxlovid.
I know once when I had COVID, I got paxlovid early,
based upon my daughter's recommendation, and it really kept it
(29:44):
under control and knocked it out of my system quickly.
I'm not an expert, and I've a mcdeane or some
of the other drugs that have been bandied about.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
What's your thought on, Yeah, I think you want to
be wary of drugs that are being that are not
being recommended by scientists and researchers. You know, I remecon
this one that people talk about a lot. It also
has been really researched and found to be not effective
and not even halfway consistently effective, And so it's one
(30:13):
of those things that kind of perpetuates itself as a conspiracy,
but it's I really discourage people from expecting that to
help them and using that as a treatment instead of
an anti viral like you Like you mentioned, so there
are some good solid treatments for COVID, and that's what
we want to aim people too, is to go look
(30:33):
for the anti virals and look for anti the anti
inflammatories and some of the target medications that are specifically
for COVID.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well well, pack packslovid works really well, as I understand
that if you take it close to the onset of COVID,
the later you go, the less effective it is. Has
packed loa been investigated all for long COVID treatments or
is it ineffectual?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Funny you mentioned that, So packedlovid is being investigated for
long COVID and there's a big clinical trial that has
just wrapped up. We hope to have the results at
the end of April. It's an NIH study called recover Vital,
and they're using extended courses of pax slovid, so in
this case, fifteen day and twenty five day courses of
pax slovid to see if that can clear all of
(31:18):
the viral remnants and alleviate long COVID symptoms. And they're
using a very specific test that was developed at Harvard
and BWh that can detect the smallest viral proteins in
the blood because even those small viral proteins can trigger
your immune system and keep it as an activated inflammatory state.
(31:38):
So it's definitely being explored for that reason. It stops
the virus from replicating when you have active COVID, and
I highly recommend it for people if for some reason
you can't take paxxlovid because it does have some effects
on the kidneys and liver. There is there's lagrevo, which
is an alternative to paxloviad, not quite as effective, but
(31:59):
better than than nothing. So you want to stop that
virus from replicating as quickly as possible, get it out
of your system, because if you allow it to dig
in and make it self comfortable, that's when you run
into two real problems in long COVID.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
All right, well, take a quick break, my guess. Julie Sullivan,
program manager with the COVID Recovery Center at brigam And
Women's Hospital in Boston. The number that you can reach tomorrow. Uh,
you may not be able to get to Julie tomorrow.
You get to her between now at midnine if you call.
But tomorrow you can reach the recovery center at six
one seven five two five three six sixty five. I
(32:33):
surely hope that Steve, who did not seem to be
aware of the recovery center, takes an effort makes an
effort to make that phone call six one seven five
two five three six sixty five. If you like to
ask a question of Julie, make a comment six one
seven two five four ten thirty or six one seven
nine three one ten thirty. Back on Night Side with
(32:54):
a concluding segment with Julie Sullivan, program manager of the
COVID Recovery Center at brigam And Women's House Hospital. A
lot of great information that Julie has provided us and perspective,
and I think it's something that in this approximately the
five year anniversary of the arrival of COVID in the
United States with the full force and impact that it had,
(33:14):
which we must never forget. I think it's a timely
conversation and I appreciate those who have called back on
Nightside right after this. Now back to Dan Ray live
from the Window World Nightside Studios.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Back to the phones for Julie Sullivan, program manager of
the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigman Women's Hospital, the
Long COVID Recovery Center. Dawn and Kill remain down. Next
on Nightside, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
I wanted to call in because I have similar problems
as Steven talk to you about. I had brain fog
and malluch. I can't balance walking, you know, very Stroggs
struggle walking, okay, And I get this about a year
(34:08):
and a half ago, and I had all of had
all of shots and you know, the updates and everything.
But I got it, and then my doctor's here, I
can't seem to figure out what to do for me.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Well, I'm going to suggest, don even though you're in meane,
give this number tomorrow a call at the Long COVID
Recovery Center. It is it's a good group of people.
You can speak, talk to someone and get into more
specifics of your circumstances. But we've given the number a
couple of times. We'll give it again six one seven,
(34:47):
five two five three six sixty five, and we'll give
it one more time before we say good night to Julie.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Fair enough, Thank Don.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We have a lot of maners in our program, so
you'll find your your people with us.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
Help you, and they were never heard of that. It's
good as you program.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And I assume I assume that a lot of it
can be done remotely correct. You don't necessarily have to
physically come to Boston. Maybe you might want to, but
but you can do a lot remotely correct.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Joy correct.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, all of our the four troops are online and
the only thing you'd have to come down for is
medical appointments, but most most everything else is online and virtual.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
All right, Don hang in there and we'll get this
number one more time. Get ready to write it down. Okay, Okay, thanks,
don appreciate it. Let me go to ann and San Antonio,
Texas and like to get you in quickly. You've called late,
but I'll make an exception for you.
Speaker 7 (35:40):
Go ahead in Thank you real quick I've had some
long covids. This fatigue especially I had I never took
I had covidch wise, never took medicine for it, and
I just for information purposes, I had the unfortunate circumstance
(36:03):
of having to take a back lavier at a different
anti viral, and some of those symptoms have disappeared.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yes, so you probably just vals lavier, and that is
an antiviral that's also being studied for long COVID. There's
a big clinical trial going on right now. And a
lot of these viruses are related. And so the epstein
bar virus when losses mono and a lot of the
herpes viruses are all kind of part of the same family,
(36:34):
and COVID can kick up other viruses, can you can
reawaken ebstein bar and so some of the same anti
virals that work for the viruses can also help with
long kovid. So I'm so glad that's helping you.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All right, Thanks, I hope that helps a little bit.
We're going to give this number you can call them
from Texas to tomorrow as well.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, but thank you very much.
I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Thanks very much.
Speaker 7 (37:01):
Thank you, thank you, damn thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Okay here and talk to you soon. Let's go to
Michael and Medford. Michael, you're going to wrap the hour
for us.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I think go right ahead, Michael, Okay, I just yes,
I agree with very good. I'd recommend anyone to watch it.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I have no idea who you're talking about here, Michael,
if you want to publicize someone else, why are you
calling my show? I have a guest who's an expert here.
Do you have a question for Julie Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Also Hydrochael.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
We got about thirty seconds left if you want. If
you want to ask a question, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Hydroxy clorcoin Is that being used for long COVID or.
Speaker 7 (37:43):
Prevention?
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Still?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
No, that's also been really discounted by the researchers for COVID.
And you encourage people really to go towards the ones
that have been shown to work against the COVID virus specifically,
and those are things like the anti virals and sending
our things are prescribing out of Long COVID Center. So
we really encourage people to contact the Long COVID Center
(38:08):
if you're looking to get help, because we can really
help you focus and get the right treatments.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you for your call, Michael, Julie. Let me give
that number one more time. Folks write it down, Rob,
make a note of it in case anyone needs to
call you. Six one seven five two five three six
six five Julie Sullivan, As always, I appreciate your work
for you, it's a labor of love. Thank you for
doing it, and thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
As always, thanks for having me. Nice to see you,
Nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
All right, Julie, we'll talk soon when we come back.
Right after the ten o'clock news. I've got an announcement
that I think some of you might be very interested in.
I will explain, and we'll also talk about the New
Hampshire US Senate race. New Hampshire once again may become
a battleground state for control of the US Senate. Back
right after the tent
It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Coostin's video. All right, Well,
a few nights ago, one of our listeners, regular listeners,
suggested that as we approach, were we really in the
fifth anniversary of the arrival of COVID in this country?
(00:22):
Very difficult to figure out exactly when COVID arrived, I
mean it arrived. It first appeared at a nursing home
I believe in the state of Washington in late January,
early February. Then you had that conference out at the
Long Whaff Marriott which a number of people contracted COVID,
and then all of a sudden it percolated up and
by this time in March of twenty and twenty, we
(00:47):
were all aware that something was going on. We didn't
know what it was happening. Remember we were we weren't
wear masked, not wear masked, all of that. And we
still don't know everything about it. And one of the
things that one of the great mysteries of COVID five
years later is what's called long COVID. And we are
(01:08):
joined again. About a year ago, we talked with my
guest Julie Sullivan. She's the program manager of the COVID
Recovery Center at Brigham and Women's Hospital. It works with
you know, what you would call pulmonary medicine, and Julie
is delighted, delightful to have you back. Thanks very much
for joining us on this fifth anniversary. It's not like
(01:32):
the day they signed the Declaration of Independence two hundred
and twenty three years ago that we can pinpoint when
it started. But you've been involved treating people with long
COVID for quite a while. Where do we stand at
this point? I think there's no question that long COVID
is real. It's not something that's psychological.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Correct, correct, Hi, Dan, I'm nice to be back. Yes,
you're right. This is definitely, definitely a physical condition. It's
a post viral condition, and we've seen things like this
in the past with chroduct fatigue syndrome and other conditions
that are autoimmune that were triggered by viruses. But COVID
has really shown a light on how dangerous post viral
(02:15):
conditions can be and how pervasive they can be.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
You sent me some materials today which have had a
chance to look at, and some of these are frightening.
For example, I believe that you're convinced that about ten
to thirty percent of COVID nine nineteen cases. COVID cases
(02:40):
result in long COVID. I mean there were millions of
Americans who contracted COVID. Was there one strain of it
that made people more likely to have long COVID? Or
is that number of ten to thirty percent? I mean
that's a wide number because one one in ten to
(03:02):
three and ten. Just drill down on that for me
a little bit. What are you telling me there? Would
you send me that number?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah? Definitely. And so when we talk about long COVID,
we talk about symptoms that persist beyond the usual infection period.
So when we say ten to thirty percent, that includes
people who had camble symptoms for six weeks, eight weeks,
two months in recovery, and so is anything that extends
beyond that period. It's hard to get exact numbers because
(03:30):
some people do recover and everyone's recovery rate is different.
We estimate that six to seven percent have ongoing chronic symptoms.
The first wave the pandemic was definitely the most dangerous,
and we didn't have any community.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, hold on, just want me show six to seven
percent of all US adults. That's that's what we're here,
That's what I believe, Okay, And with everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Knows someone with long COVID. You know, you can talk
to your friends and you'll find someone who says, yes,
I have long COVID, or someone who says, you know,
my breathing never has been the same since I had
COVID two years ago, or have never been able to
exercise to that point.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
By the way, Julie, I'm not challenging on any of
these statistics. I'm trying to re emphasize the seriousness of this.
I have friends, and I think I mentioned and he's
a pretty well known former tennis player, Cliff Richie, who
to this day deals with long COVID. And Cliff was
one of the healthiest individuals that I have ever known.
(04:35):
You know, he's a he's a little older, you know,
he's in his late seventies at this point. But there
are days when I'll call him on the phone and
he'll just say, Dan, I can't talk. I mean, and
he literally is, and he's it's just it's some people.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Some people are bet bound and homebound. It's that severe.
So just like when you contract COVID, there's a difference
in severity where some people you know, can go into
respiratory failure and die and other people have no symptoms.
There is also a range with long COVID, and it
is scary because every time you can tract COVID, you
increase your risk of developing long COVID.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
WHOA now, now, real quick question here, and I want
to stay with the notes that you sent me are
which are just unbelievably scary. COVID is still around the
The Department of Health here in Massachusetts releases statistics every week.
It doesn't get into the written newspaper. I don't see
(05:40):
it in the globe of the Herald, but there's always
you know, seven, eight, ten people who pass away from
COVID and that's that's a lot of depths over the
course of a year in one state. Do we have
and I know this may get into not into your
area of expertise, What can you hear about the possibility
(06:02):
that you know, we've been told now it's always going
to be with us, like the flow, it's never gone away.
Is that is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think it is, although we're certainly not doing anything
to make COVID go away. You know the numbers I
think the reporting is still it's still underreported because people
are not testing for COVID and they're not treating COVID
when they have it and not preventing transmission of it,
and that perpetuates the matter as it continues to evolve
(06:30):
and it continues to make new variants to stay in
our systems, and that is scary because it can mutate
to get more dangerous, to be more contagious, and we've
seen that happen over the course of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Do you think that at some point in the future
it's conceivable that we could be looking at a repeat
of twenty twenty or is that the worst of it,
and that it may come back in various income our nations,
but it's never going to come back with that intensity.
What's your thought on that?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Well, my thought is that we have more pandemics ahead
of us, maybe not COVID, but other viruses, you know,
the H one, N five and a lot of these
viruses that are pretty dangerous and circulating could transfer over
to humans and become pretty deadly to humans again, So
I think we always have to be very conscious of that.
I don't know that COVID itself would evolved to become
(07:28):
more dangerous. That there are other coronaviruses that certainly could
develop to become dangerous.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And the problem, I think is that when when COVID
really hit, and it hit with the intensity that that
those of us you know, who were around at that
time and over a certain age, I think if you
were over ten years old, you recognized that this was
this was a pandemic and that was a big word
(07:54):
that people were getting used to, an epidemic of international
proportions that that we kind of did rally and everybody
was a little more careful. But I feel that as
time goes by, we're getting sloppy again. Not that I
want everyone wearing masks or anything like that, but it
just seems to me that if it's not in the
(08:15):
forefront of our mind of our minds, that gives that
puts us at a collective disadvantage. And I don't use
the word collective a lot, because I'm not I'm not
a fan of that word. But if I don't take
care of myself and watch out, it might come back
to I might not get it, but maybe somehow I
(08:36):
will transmit it to you or to someone else. Am
I crazy?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
When I talk that way, No, I think you're right.
I think we have gotten really sloppy. We learned some
really important things during the early days of the pandemic
around washing our hands and avoiding crowds and not sanitizing
after you touch high contact surfaces, staying home when you're
sick to protect other people, and a lot of those
just basic respiratory egien and infection control practices we've really
(09:02):
slipped away from. And I think that's also why we
saw such surgeons of viruses in general this winter, with
flu A and flu B and RSV and the neurovirus.
So it's been a messy winter for sure for viruses
and a lot of infections control and respiratory hygiene could
see people a lot of grief.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
My guest is Julie Sullivan. Julie has been on the
front lines of the COVID battle for many years, for
five years and probably realistically before that. Julie is currently
the manager of the COVID Recovery Center at Brigham and
Women's Hospital. You have dealt with a lot of people
over the last few years, without again identifying people, I
(09:49):
want to drill down in our next segment, what have
you been doing. How do you pull people out of
this pit of despair? And it is a pit of despair.
And if you do, you have any questions and you'd
like to talk with Julie, all you've got to do
is give us a call six one seven, two, five,
four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one
ten thirty. We'll get to phone calls for Julie Sullivan.
(10:11):
Your questions about COVID, about your situation. Feel free to
ask whatever ever questions you like. As I learned many
years ago in law school, the only dumb questions of
the questions you don't have the courage to ask, because
that's the one that's going to be in the midterm
or the final exam. Six one seven, five four ten thirty,
(10:32):
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. My name
is Dan Ray, Delighted to be joined by Julie Sullivan
on the topic of recovery from long COVID Back after
this Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
World night Side.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
My guest is Julie Sullivan. She is an expert on
recovering from long COVID UH. She works at Brigham and
Women Hospital, in the COVID Recovery center, She's dealt with
lots of people over time. Julia Kinda, this may be
a question that is beyond your realm of expertise. I
(11:12):
suspect it isn't, but just in case.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
One of the things about COVID that has struck me
as curious, and that is, when you buy or you
get from the government COVID tests, they don't seem to
have a long life expectancy. And my suspicion is that
there's a lot of people listening to the program tonight
who have never checked the use by date on their
(11:39):
COVID test packets, and when they need to use them,
they're going to find that they are theoretically out of date.
How come, and this again maybe beyond your realm, how
come our government could not come up with a test
which which would maintain its capability for more than just
a few months.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's a good question that is beyond my realm of expertise, actually,
and I.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Don't know to me that that if for you, four
months from now or next September, something like COVID comes
roaring back, we're all going to go to our uh,
you know, to our medicine cabinets and pull out some
some tests. What you're gonna say, well, this expired, you know,
a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, well you could be like me and and replenish
your COVID tests and especially so before every search. So
that's what I do.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's okay, solid advice. Let's uh, let's get some phone
calls and see what see what people have to say. Again,
if you've had an experience and you want to compare notes, uh,
if you want to talk or ask a question, you're
more than welcome. Let's go. First off to Steve and Lynz. Steve,
welcome your first ISS hour with Julie Sullivan talking about
long COVID.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yes, how you doing it?
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Then?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I never got checked. I've never had the call. They
had the flu from a flu shot, and I got
COVID in twenty twenty one on our tour of fourteen
and I spent four months in the Mass General in
six weeks in a coma in five weeks. One how
to walk. I just don't want to bother everybody because
(13:17):
I know your phone is probably busy.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
And so wait a second, so they gave me a Steve, Steve,
just pay with me for a second. You've thrown a
lot at us. Let's absorb it because your experience is
important to talk about. So you had never really been
someone who who contracted this stuff? Is what you? What
I think you said? Did? You were a pretty healthy individual?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Very very okay?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Ed?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Did you go ahead and get the COVID shots or no?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
In twenty one No, I didn't even know there was
anything out there that early.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Okay, so walk.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Available.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, Steve, just listen to what Julie's going to ask
you here, Okay, please. You know, I know you want
to get your story out, and I want to get
it out because I think it's going to be important.
But you just got to also give us a chance
to interact with you. Julie, you had a question or
a comment for Steve.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It sounds like Steve contracted COVID before all of the
vaccinations are readily available, and I'm so sorry that you
experienced that. It's not unusual, you know, people get very
stick with COVID, but there's just something that they don't
quite understand yet in our DNA or our immune system
that individual to each person that dictates how your body
(14:39):
responds to COVID. And so you had no reason to
think that this virus would affect you so badly. But
it's it's just a special kind of virus. And I'm
so sorry that you went through that, and you're continuing
to go through that.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
I want to ask you a question, Steve. You said
that you contracted COVID in October of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah, October fourteenth. Even though I was sick, I had
double pneumonia, just like I had a problem breathing. Were
you passed out during I was going to the bathroomen,
I passed out and thank god somebody was there to
call me an ambulance.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Were you aware? Were you aware, Steve, that there were
COVID shots that by October of twenty twenty one were available?
Not really? Okay, so you don't remember.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I could have That's that's another thing that happened. My
memory is just my short term memories wiped out.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
How is this? Are you back to work or what's
your life like today?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I don't know. I'm disabled. It gave me neuropathy. My
legs swello up, my cap on, my knees down, they
swell up like four times the size of my normal's calf. Hey,
my sense of smells not back. Even nobody's from me
to be normal and.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Seeing Steve, are you seeing doctors or are you in any
sort of a program at all? Or no?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I have a doctors and I've been
checked by all cons of people. Plus i had ostio.
Its like a deal with that, but it made that
like three times as painful.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Let me ask you this question, Steve, if I could
ask how old are you?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I'm sick. I'm sixty to you right now.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Sixty three. So it's a pretty good chance you might
never work again.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh I can barely. I can't walk a couple of
hundred feet. I have to walk with a cane.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Now, okay, Julie, Is I assume you deal with folks
like Steve fairly frequently? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Is Steve you're your quintessential sort of patient or is
he an exceptionally impacted patient?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know what Stinus describing is what COVID does. It
causes an ongoing inflammatory and immune response, and that's why
he's continuing to suffer to this day. You know, if
it was a one and done and then you just
could heal from it, like a stroke or something like that,
that would be one thing, but the virus stays on
in your system and continues to recapog and that's what
(17:30):
makes recovery so challenging.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
What what advice would you have for Steve kN again?
Should he be someone who's calling your program or should
he be reaching out? Are there similar programs on the
North Shore that might be more convenient for him? What
can we do for him at this point?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, so I would recommend that. It sounds like, were
you connected with MATH general still? Is that where you're hospitalized? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
so it would be good to stay connected with them.
You know, when it comes to along COVID programs, there's.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Not a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
We were very fortunate to have three here in the
Boston area at Sigum and Women's and Beth Israel Deaconness
of Boston Medical Center. But one thing, and we can
talk a little bit more about this, is that what
we offer is an addition to medical support for people
experiencing long COVID and post hospital issues from COVID is
access to clinical trials and then a lot of community
(18:28):
support and the ability to connect with other people who
have long COVID and understand what you're going through and
so we have support groups and we do a lot
of community building, and we have presentations from experts and
the weekly newsletter to keep people updated on the latest
with COVID research because of this changing. So I think
it would be wonderful for you to be connected with
(18:50):
something like that and then also get to maintain hope.
You know, we really hope that in the next couple
of years they're going to develop some focused treatments for
COVID that will still up this ongoing effect that's having
on your body. And well, you may not, you know,
get back to one hundred percent, and it's likely you won't. Unfortunately,
you might be able to feel better than you do now,
(19:10):
and that's the hope that everybody can get at least
better than they are now with good treatments.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Julie, we're going to be able to give the number
of the phone number for your facility, So could Steve
call there and get some more specific guidance based upon
where he lives if he calls there sometime in the
next day or so.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Oh, absolutely absolutely, And we see people from from across
the state and people out of state as well.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Great, Okay, Steve, we will give this number a couple
of times between now and the end of the show.
So why don't you get yourself a pencil piece of
paper and we'll give the number that I would advise
you to give a call tomorrow and they may have
some some help for you.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Okay, right, I just I just pray to God that
nobody else goes for this because this is horror.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Okay, well, just again, at least we're going to get
you a contact number for you to call tomorrow and
make that your task of the day. Thanks Steve, hanging there, buddy.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Okay, thank you very much for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You're welcome, Thank you for calling. We take a quick break.
My guest is Julie Sullivan. We're talking about long COVID.
Julie is associated with Brigham and Women's Hospital. She has
been dealing with this battle now for years. Your questions
are welcome. And Julie, why don't we give that number
out at least now, and then we'll give it out
(20:36):
a couple more times. How can people reach out to
the recovery group at Brigham and Women's and maybe get
referred on or maybe become a member of your greer.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, and I want to struss that if you if
you want to be in our program, you are in
our program. We don't have enrollment criteria. You don't have
to be seeing a doctor at Britain and Women's in
order to be in our program. We want everyone who
suffering effects of COVID to be part of our long
COVID community and have access to the resources that we have. Okay,
So I'll keep you.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
The phone number.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yep, yep at six yep five two five m three
six six five.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Okay, So six one seven five two five three six
sixty five and I assume that's a nine to five number.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It is, yeah, Okay, great, We'll.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Be back with Julie Sullivan talking about long COVID. Your calls,
your comments, your questions are welcome. We'll do this until
about ten o'clock and we're going to change topics at
ten o'clock. So get on the line right now. One
line at six one seven, two five four to ten thirty.
One line at six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
This is an opportunity to for you to ask questions
or maybe even like Steve, find some support, if not help.
(21:49):
Back on Night Side right after the news. We're a
little late for the news, but here it comes right now.
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WAZ Boston's
news Radio. All right, we're talking with Julie Sullivan. She
is the program manager for the COVID Recovery Center at
Brigaman Women's Hospital. We gave that number earlier six one seven,
(22:11):
five two five three, six sixty five. We will give
it a couple of more times between now and ten o'clock.
Let's keep rolling here, going to go to Larry out
of the Cape. Larry, you are involved in this matter
of fact. You are the person who suggested Julie join us.
Thank you for that suggestion, go right.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Ahead, Thank you for discussing this most important subject. And
thank you Julie for everything to do for our group.
I've been struggling since November of twenty twenty one. And
I was healthy. I'm an avid. I was an avid
mountain biker. I'd go out and do fifteen twenty miles.
And the problem that I'm dealing with is if you
don't if people that don't know anybody with long COVID,
(22:51):
they think it's just a virus, they don't bother testing,
and they look at me and they say jeez, Larry,
you look great, but they don't realize what I'm struggling with.
One of the it's a roll of coaster ride. So
my problem is yesterday I was on my favorite trails
down in Brewster and Howish mountain biking. I kept it
to half my normal distance. I felt really good. Today
I woke up and it's called a crash. My whole
(23:13):
body just shut down because I did too much. And
I have to learn to pace myself and the doctor.
The mainstream doctors, like Julie said, they don't know what
to do. And I'm fortunate enough to have a functional
medicine doctor that I'm dealing with, and I've been taking
some herbal supplements and I might gradually be getting better,
(23:35):
but it's a lot. It's been what four years now,
and it's been a tough battle.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Julie, I assume that you've heard that type of story before.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Correct, yes, yes, and you know. And Larry's a wonderful
advocate for people going through this condition. And what he
said is absolutely true is that it's an invisible condition.
People may look okay from the outside, but you don't
realize how much they're suffering and how limited they are.
And yes, what Larry's describing is called post exertional malaise,
(24:07):
and it's a systemic, whole body reaction when you push
yourself too far. It's not like your regular fatigue. If
you have a hard workout and you feel sore and
tired the other day. The next day, this is a
profound fatigue. People may run a fever. They see you're
very ill, and it can take a long time to
feel better, days and sometimes weeks to crawl out of
(24:28):
a crash.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It's amazing at what you've described, you know, over the
years to us, and again thanks for suggesting. Uh, Julie,
she's She's clear and concise and right to the point.
Thank you so much, as all tomorrow. Hope you.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Bye bye.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
We go next to Raise Up and Lowell Ray You
are next on Nice Ie with Julie Sullivan of the
Long covid SE, the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigaman
Women's Hospital in Boston.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Go ahead, right, Hi, Dan, Hi Dan, Hi, Julie.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Hey, yeah, hey, I just wanted to make a statement
and then ask a question and then I'll hang up
and listen to the response. If that's okay.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I make your statement, ask you a question, and don't
don't hang out.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Go ahead, okay. I was watching the show last night
on a station called day Star, and there's a show
that they have on there. I think this is really
important for your listener. And I was wondering what Julie
thought about this, Uh, this day Star network, and it's
(25:43):
there's a show on there called Joni Jo and I
Table Talk and they had a doctor on there.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
His name is Brian Artists a R D I S.
And he was dealing with this long COVID sence situation
and he bam on the show last night that there
are two studies, one I think he said, was in
Great Britain, one in France, and some entity is testing
(26:12):
this theory in the United States. But anyway, what he
claimed was he said with long COVID. He said, they
found in the France and the Great Britain study that
not ninety percent, not eight percent, but one hundred percent
of the people that did what I'm going to say
now recovered from long COVID. And he said, if they
(26:35):
put on a I think he said seven milligram nicotine
patch on their skin for six days that the long
COVID goes away, and he said the study was not
ninety nine percent effective, but was one hundred percent effective
with those tested. He has a book out and it's
called The Nineteen Myths of COVID, And again the doctor's
(26:59):
name is doctor Brian Artists. Aidis the question I had
is if Julie ever heard of him, and if he's
heard of this book, the nineteen Mess of COVID by
Brian Artist and the a of this nicotine patch study
along COVID suffers.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
So let's stay right here, stay right there. Let's let's
get a response from Julie and this this okay, this
sounds almost too good to be true.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Julie, I know what those Yeah, I know what those Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I haven't heard of Brian Artists, but I'm really interested now.
I will definitely look him up and look that book up.
I have heard of nicotine patches and that is being
used as a treatment. It's helping some people significantly with
fatigue and with brain fog. There are a few studies
that are going on right now testing it. What we
find this long COVID frustratingly is that we haven't found
(27:50):
one treatment that works for everyone, and there seem to
be different subtypes of COVID, and so for some people
a nicotine patch, which does certain things with the seat
of coline receptors, can really help their symptoms, and then
for other people it doesn't help. So it is being
studied and we are we are using it here as
(28:10):
well and suggesting it to certain patients. It comes with risks,
you know, you'd have to really clear it with your doctor.
It could increase your heart rate, and you want to
make sure that it's a healthy thing for you to do.
Some people who have tried the nicotine patch had to
discontinue it because it made them feel really sick. So
it's not a panacea, unfortunately, but it is one of
the treatments that's being used for long COVID.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
And again I had one other quests and Dan, I
feel proment me.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I got to be quick, go ahead, rakes them up
my break or right ahead?
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Okay, yeah, I understand, I understand. And he was a
big proponent of ivermectum. He said that it's not getting
the positivity that the international medical community has given and
he said it's not just what the people have claimed
in the past, but it was a horse tranquilize and
something like that. But anyway, doctor, I'm on the nineteen
(29:01):
miths of covid or something like that, and I just
wanted to bring that to your attention and the Jeweler's
attention and hopefully you can learn more about that than
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, thanks, Ray, I'm remex it something that's tossed around
quite a bit. I don't know if you want to
me to answer now or if you need to take
a break and come back to it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
No, I could take a quick answer again. I know
that there were some who suggested that, well, I think
that that the key the drug, that the treatment that
people have agreed upon is paxlovid. That if you get paxlovid.
I know once when I had COVID, I got paxlovid early,
based upon my daughter's recommendation, and it really kept it
(29:44):
under control and knocked it out of my system quickly.
I'm not an expert, and I've a mcdeane or some
of the other drugs that have been bandied about.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
What's your thought on, Yeah, I think you want to
be wary of drugs that are being that are not
being recommended by scientists and researchers. You know, I remecon
this one that people talk about a lot. It also
has been really researched and found to be not effective
and not even halfway consistently effective, And so it's one
(30:13):
of those things that kind of perpetuates itself as a conspiracy,
but it's I really discourage people from expecting that to
help them and using that as a treatment instead of
an anti viral like you Like you mentioned, so there
are some good solid treatments for COVID, and that's what
we want to aim people too, is to go look
(30:33):
for the anti virals and look for anti the anti
inflammatories and some of the target medications that are specifically
for COVID.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well well, pack packslovid works really well, as I understand
that if you take it close to the onset of COVID,
the later you go, the less effective it is. Has
packed loa been investigated all for long COVID treatments or
is it ineffectual?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Funny you mentioned that, So packedlovid is being investigated for
long COVID and there's a big clinical trial that has
just wrapped up. We hope to have the results at
the end of April. It's an NIH study called recover Vital,
and they're using extended courses of pax slovid, so in
this case, fifteen day and twenty five day courses of
pax slovid to see if that can clear all of
(31:18):
the viral remnants and alleviate long COVID symptoms. And they're
using a very specific test that was developed at Harvard
and BWh that can detect the smallest viral proteins in
the blood because even those small viral proteins can trigger
your immune system and keep it as an activated inflammatory state.
(31:38):
So it's definitely being explored for that reason. It stops
the virus from replicating when you have active COVID, and
I highly recommend it for people if for some reason
you can't take paxxlovid because it does have some effects
on the kidneys and liver. There is there's lagrevo, which
is an alternative to paxloviad, not quite as effective, but
(31:59):
better than than nothing. So you want to stop that
virus from replicating as quickly as possible, get it out
of your system, because if you allow it to dig
in and make it self comfortable, that's when you run
into two real problems in long COVID.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
All right, well, take a quick break, my guess. Julie Sullivan,
program manager with the COVID Recovery Center at brigam And
Women's Hospital in Boston. The number that you can reach tomorrow. Uh,
you may not be able to get to Julie tomorrow.
You get to her between now at midnine if you call.
But tomorrow you can reach the recovery center at six
one seven five two five three six sixty five. I
(32:33):
surely hope that Steve, who did not seem to be
aware of the recovery center, takes an effort makes an
effort to make that phone call six one seven five
two five three six sixty five. If you like to
ask a question of Julie, make a comment six one
seven two five four ten thirty or six one seven
nine three one ten thirty. Back on Night Side with
(32:54):
a concluding segment with Julie Sullivan, program manager of the
COVID Recovery Center at brigam And Women's House Hospital. A
lot of great information that Julie has provided us and perspective,
and I think it's something that in this approximately the
five year anniversary of the arrival of COVID in the
United States with the full force and impact that it had,
(33:14):
which we must never forget. I think it's a timely
conversation and I appreciate those who have called back on
Nightside right after this. Now back to Dan Ray live
from the Window World Nightside Studios.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Back to the phones for Julie Sullivan, program manager of
the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigman Women's Hospital, the
Long COVID Recovery Center. Dawn and Kill remain down. Next
on Nightside, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
I wanted to call in because I have similar problems
as Steven talk to you about. I had brain fog
and malluch. I can't balance walking, you know, very Stroggs
struggle walking, okay, And I get this about a year
(34:08):
and a half ago, and I had all of had
all of shots and you know, the updates and everything.
But I got it, and then my doctor's here, I
can't seem to figure out what to do for me.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Well, I'm going to suggest, don even though you're in meane,
give this number tomorrow a call at the Long COVID
Recovery Center. It is it's a good group of people.
You can speak, talk to someone and get into more
specifics of your circumstances. But we've given the number a
couple of times. We'll give it again six one seven,
(34:47):
five two five three six sixty five, and we'll give
it one more time before we say good night to Julie.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Fair enough, Thank Don.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
We have a lot of maners in our program, so
you'll find your your people with us.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
Help you, and they were never heard of that. It's
good as you program.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
And I assume I assume that a lot of it
can be done remotely correct. You don't necessarily have to
physically come to Boston. Maybe you might want to, but
but you can do a lot remotely correct.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Joy correct.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, all of our the four troops are online and
the only thing you'd have to come down for is
medical appointments, but most most everything else is online and virtual.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
All right, Don hang in there and we'll get this
number one more time. Get ready to write it down. Okay, Okay, thanks,
don appreciate it. Let me go to ann and San Antonio,
Texas and like to get you in quickly. You've called late,
but I'll make an exception for you.
Speaker 7 (35:40):
Go ahead in Thank you real quick I've had some
long covids. This fatigue especially I had I never took
I had covidch wise, never took medicine for it, and
I just for information purposes, I had the unfortunate circumstance
(36:03):
of having to take a back lavier at a different
anti viral, and some of those symptoms have disappeared.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yes, so you probably just vals lavier, and that is
an antiviral that's also being studied for long COVID. There's
a big clinical trial going on right now. And a
lot of these viruses are related. And so the epstein
bar virus when losses mono and a lot of the
herpes viruses are all kind of part of the same family,
(36:34):
and COVID can kick up other viruses, can you can
reawaken ebstein bar and so some of the same anti
virals that work for the viruses can also help with
long kovid. So I'm so glad that's helping you.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All right, Thanks, I hope that helps a little bit.
We're going to give this number you can call them
from Texas to tomorrow as well.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, but thank you very much.
I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Thanks very much.
Speaker 7 (37:01):
Thank you, thank you, damn thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Okay here and talk to you soon. Let's go to
Michael and Medford. Michael, you're going to wrap the hour
for us.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I think go right ahead, Michael, Okay, I just yes,
I agree with very good. I'd recommend anyone to watch it.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I have no idea who you're talking about here, Michael,
if you want to publicize someone else, why are you
calling my show? I have a guest who's an expert here.
Do you have a question for Julie Sullivan?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Also Hydrochael.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
We got about thirty seconds left if you want. If
you want to ask a question, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Hydroxy clorcoin Is that being used for long COVID or.
Speaker 7 (37:43):
Prevention?
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Still?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
No, that's also been really discounted by the researchers for COVID.
And you encourage people really to go towards the ones
that have been shown to work against the COVID virus specifically,
and those are things like the anti virals and sending
our things are prescribing out of Long COVID Center. So
we really encourage people to contact the Long COVID Center
(38:08):
if you're looking to get help, because we can really
help you focus and get the right treatments.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Thank you for your call, Michael, Julie. Let me give
that number one more time. Folks write it down, Rob,
make a note of it in case anyone needs to
call you. Six one seven five two five three six
six five Julie Sullivan, As always, I appreciate your work
for you, it's a labor of love. Thank you for
doing it, and thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
As always, thanks for having me. Nice to see you,
Nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
All right, Julie, we'll talk soon when we come back.
Right after the ten o'clock news. I've got an announcement
that I think some of you might be very interested in.
I will explain, and we'll also talk about the New
Hampshire US Senate race. New Hampshire once again may become
a battleground state for control of the US Senate. Back
right after the tent
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