November 24, 2025 • 39 mins
There is an update in the investigation into the tragic Boston Public Schools school bus accident that killed 5-year-old Lens Joseph in Hyde Park back in April of this year. The Boston Globe reports that there is a video recording that was shown to them that shows the bus driver did not appear to be watching the boy and his cousin after they exited the bus and where they were going. The video also showed the driver appearing to look down at the dashboard, not straight ahead when the bus hit and ran over Lens Joseph. The family has sued the driver and bus company, alleging their negligence and recklessness resulted in Lens’s death.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w BZY Boston's
Meat Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
For those of you who are just joining us, we
have just spent an hour and we're going to continue
to talk about the same subject because I think it's important.
There's a piece that The Boston Globe cleared today on
digital at six point fifteen this morning. It will be
and I assume tomorrow morning's print edition of The Globe.
The Globe reporter did a great job. His name is
(00:27):
John Hilliard. I do not know John, but he did
a great job with his story. He has seen the
video that shows that the Boston Public School bus driver's
eyes were off the road when Hyde Park Kindy gardener,
five year old Lenz Arthur Joseph was struck and killed
(00:48):
in that April bus crash. The little guy, Lens Joseph
had just gotten off the bus in the company of
his eleven year old cousin, and there is video on
the bus which shows literally second by second, this boy
getting off the bus, getting off the bus, and then
(01:11):
the bus door closing and the driver almost immediately starting up.
The driver knew or should have known, that he had
dropped the little boy and his eleven year old cousin
on the wrong side of the Hyde Park Street earlier
in that bus ride. This driver allegedly has struck one
(01:32):
or two vehicles, depending upon which news report you believe,
and left the scene of that accident, which was his
fault because he struck parked vehicles. It wasn't as if
he was involved in a collision where someone might have
run into him. He struck vehicles, never left the scene
(01:52):
of an accident, did not report it to his company,
and the company, which is a French transportation company and
eleven billion dollar company, Transdev, is now involved in a
civil lawsuit with the family. But I'm concerned where is
the criminal activity. We have a district attorney who is
(02:14):
Mia Kevin Hayden. Kevin, if you're listening tonight, you want
to come on tomorrow night. We can talk about it.
You can tell me all the work that your great
office has been doing here to bring justice for Lens Joseph.
Simple as that. I don't think there's a lot of
facts here. Apparently the bus driver has been clear of
(02:34):
having any alcohol or drug intoxication. That's out there. But
the bottom line is that there is a vehicular homicide.
At a minimum, it should be vehicular homicide. This guy
was driving. His certificate as a bus driver had expired,
so there's a lot to work with here, and they
(02:56):
certainly could have done something early on, taking a passport,
held him on some form of bail, just to make
sure that he would appear. And this is gonna be
I'm troubled by it. I'm troubled because if this had
happened in the town in which Kevin Hayden the DA
grew up, which is Newton, or the town where he
(03:19):
went to high school in Denham, in Noble and Greno,
or any of the other really nice cities and towns
around the more affluent suburbs. Let me put it like that,
I don't think would be waiting six almost now seven
months to get word from the district attorney as to
(03:39):
what was happening. I kind of understand it. Maybe there's
an assistant DA out there who wants to tell me
I'm dead wrong, Fine, bring it on. I don't understand
why this will take so long. I don't want this
little boy his memory to be forgotten, and I will
continue to bring this up periodically in my I say
(03:59):
heads hats off to John Hilliard of the Boston Globe.
I hope he's listening. I'm a big fan. At this point,
he broke down, second by second. Also, the cameras on
the bus showed that the driver apparently was not paying
attention at critical moments, which could have contributed to him
running over this five year old child who had just
(04:22):
gotten off his bus. Let me go back to Steven Bridgewater. Steve,
I held you over. We're back. You go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
All right, Jan You know, I think you were answered
by question before I even asked it. I was gonna
ask what what ideas do you have as to why
it's taken this long? Like one of the first call
of it called said something about he thinks something's being
covered up. Do you have any idea, any ideas, dad
at all, as to what that could be.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, the only thing that I can say, and this
is mere speculation on my part, okay, is that if
the public has a very short attention span, Okay, I
hate to put it like that, but we're all on
our phones. We're looking at our phones, we're looking at TikTok,
we're looking at Instagram. I do the same thing. And
(05:14):
oh did you see that there was a picture of
the new There was a new gorilla or baby gorilla
born in a Knoxville zoo in Tennessee today. Oh, let
me send that to all my friends because I want
them to see this picture and I wanted I want
people to think I'm cool because I'm in part of this,
and I want a couple of the Patriots got hurt yesterday, Well,
let me let me send that out to my friend.
(05:34):
So we don't pay attention to the things that are
really important. What difference does it make to me that
a gorilla was born? Cute gorilla is a highlighted on
ABC News tonight. What difference does it make to me
that a couple of New England Patriots got banged up yesterday?
You know, look, I don't want anybody to get hurt, Patriots,
particularly Okay, I want them to go to the super Bowl.
(05:55):
But it doesn't mean anything to me. But this does
mean something to me because I went to the Boston
public schools. I wasn't going to Boston public schools when
I was in kindergarten. I never went to kindergarten. I
went to a Catholic school for eight years. I walked
to the school, never had a bus. So, but this
little kid's life is over because the bus driver, clearly
(06:18):
I don't think, intentionally went to hit him. And if
he hit him unintentionally, then the driver was negligent and
he might have potentially I'm not sure if the facts
would show he was reckless. But I can tell you
as a lawyer, you bring the charges. If you have
to increase the charges later on, so be it. But
(06:38):
you I think sometimes these public officials think, you know what,
don't forget about it. The public won't forget the public
will forget about it. I'm not going to forget about it.
I'm not gonna let my audience forget about it.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I feel I remember watching it on TV. I saw it.
I think it's not claim strong in my mind anymore, dear,
but I remember seeing it on the news.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, but what happens is, you know, ironically, we had
a granddaughter born the day before, and it kind of
was a connection that that made me. You know, look,
I grew up in Boston, I grew up in Reedville,
I grew up in Hyde Park. These were streets where
where I played sports and I knew and this kid
(07:29):
is struck by the bus that he got off two seconds. Literally, literally,
this is what this story will tell us tomorrow. Within
seconds of the moment that he got off the bus.
Where's the outrage? People should be calling Kevin Hayden's office
every day, twice a day. Hayden was like an absentee
(07:50):
DA he's unavailable. I almost don't want to waste my time,
but I'll say it right now, Kevin, I went to
you law school. You went to be you law school.
I went a few years ahead of you. But guess
what you're invited to want to come on this show
any night this week, any night next week and and
explain what's going on in this investigation? He should Why
(08:13):
the hell is it taking so long?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, you might never know again, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh no, no, no, no no no, let me tell you.
I will stay on this. We'll we'll, we'll revisit this
every month if we have to, and when Kevin is
up for election, we will remind the audience about this case.
Trust me on.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
That, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
All right, I'm gonna let you run. Steve has always
I appreciate your your interest in this case. It's it's
just tragic. This little boy is dead. He's never gonna
see Christmas. He's never gonna he's never gonna see another birthday.
And is anybody does anybody care? I care, and you care,
and everybody who's calling in cares.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So Dain, keep it alive, Just keep it alive.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Promise you I will.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You got Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It took me, It took me. It took me fifteen
years to find justice for Joe Silvadi. This will be easy.
Get heard that. Thank you?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh my god, Yeah, thank thank you.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Bout you soon.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Quick break, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Night Side with Dan Ray on ws Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We're gonna keep rolling here. You're gonna go next to
Eric and Attleborough. Eric, you're next on Nightsiger right ahead.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Oh yeah, hey Dan, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Just one of the.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Interject with something that I happen to know about trans debts.
All right. The company adopted, or I should say, entered
into something called the Tent Partnership for Refugees in twenty
twenty two. And I can tell you that, you know,
(09:58):
the Tent Partnership for Refugee he's you know, it's uh
it operates you know, worldwide with UH many of the
Fortune five hundred companies you know pretty much big a
pledge to hire a certain quota of said, you know, refugees.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Now, we have no idea, we have the reason that
may be true, but I can't well I'm specific, let
me finish, hold on, held on, Eric, I don't know
under what circumstances this gentleman, Jean Charles was hired. And
I don't want to draw a conclusion without you know,
(10:44):
some some substantial proof of that. I mean, I have.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
No Yeah, I'm not talking about that gentleman like the
the perpetrator specifically that I believe is you know, taking
a look around, especially the last you know, I would
say about fifteen years. Just the deprecation of the uniformity
of the application of you know, specific you know, due diligence.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right. But what I'm saying, we're talking about it. Here's
the problem, Eric, We're talking about a driver who was
certificate had expired. I don't know his nationality. I know
his name is Jean Charles. His certificate had expired. That's
what I know. I have no nor do I want
to link this to any sort of a de a
(11:31):
dei hire because that's I don't know.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah, that's that I don't I'm not trying.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
That guy could be. This guy could be as much
he could have been born in the country as well
as you and I are. I have nothing to to
know about that, So why we even bringing it up there?
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Because I just happen to know about the a specific
you know, segment of the population which is very active
online in the Twitter flash x you know sphere. Yeah,
if they ever calought windows of the company trans that
has a partnership with Michelle Wou, who you know, is
(12:09):
kind of known.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Why bring your name into it, Kevin, Kevin, do me
a favorite, don't, don't try to don't, don't try to
be cute with me. Okay, this is I think you're.
I think you're You're about ten feet off of first
base and I'm picking you off. Okay, it's as simple
as that. There's too much. All I want to know
is what happened. That's all I want to know. I'm
a lawyer, I'm a journalist. I stay on solid ground.
(12:34):
If we find out that there's more to this story,
I'll be the first to tell you about it. But
I'm not gonna go jump off a building without a parachute.
Simple as that, I appreciate your call, but I'll say
gonna say good night, have a great night. Eric, thank you.
Let me let me go next to James and Quincy. James,
appreciate your patience, your health through the news. Go right ahead, James.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
Yes, Dan, I am totally appalled at this situation. I'm
a CDL driver, I've driven for over fifty years.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Good for you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
This should have never got past first base.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
And I'm also totally disappointed in the community not being
on the ball and upset with it too, because, first
of all.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Thank you number one. And all I can do is
I throw it out that I didn't think we would
get an hour out of it. We're continuing to talk
about it. My audience decides what's important. I simply offer options,
and this one's really important. This little boy, five years old,
he walks off that bus in the company of his
(13:48):
eleven year old cousin. And I'm saying this. You know
the story, but just so for people who are tuning in.
People always tune in and tune out. He gets off
the bus within a matter of three or four seconds.
According to this article in The Boss Globe, he's hit
by the true hes hit by the bus.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
He just got off right.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Unheard of.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Yeah, no attentiveness to the road in either aspect of
traffic or anything. His eyes should have been on the
people that were getting off of the bus and successfully
reaching the other side, regardless of if he went and
(14:30):
let him off on the wrong side or on occurred.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But especially, but James, especially when you consider everything that's involved.
This guy had was involved in an accident where he
apparently sideswiped one or two vehicles in Mattapan just a
fast beforehand. Then he doesn't get this child to where
(14:56):
the child should be. Kyle is five years old. I mean, yeah,
I'm worried about a ten year old kid acrossing the street,
never mind a five year ox and he as opposed
to being absolutely certain that this child. So the hit
and run accident now pales in comparison. You know, the
side swiping of the car. Now we're talking about a
(15:18):
dead child. So if his folk, if he was distracted
by the side swiping of a car, which one gets
fixed for one thousand dollars two thousand dollars insurance company,
bad enough, leaving the scene of an accident, bad enough.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
But now exactly you have the death of.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
A child, Oh, which magnifies the whole situation.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Not in a world which you grew up you and
I grew up. James.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
Oh, and it's sad.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It's sad.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
It's very sad. Had it been my child, my grandchild,
or whatever, that guy would not be able to even
get home for the news.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Well, I understand, but I'm sure that you know that
we were what we're We are taught not to engage
in self help. That that's the term I learned in
law school many years ago. And we rely upon the
police and the public officials like the district attorney. The
public official here who I'm calling out is the District
(16:19):
Attorney of Suffolk County, Kevin Hayden. It's been almost seven
months since this tragedy, and we know except for the
story that you'll see in the Boston Globe tomorrow morning.
And my hat's up to John Hilliard and the Boston
Globe for putting this story out there. Kevin Hayden is
m I a missing in action right now?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah, which is which is another slap in the
face by the communities.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Yep, yes, sir, yeah, Well he got.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
He got voted in and there was a lot of
controversy around his election. He was appointed by Charlie Baker. Okay,
so I mean there was some cont diversary about the election.
Uh and there I think he actually paid an ethics fine.
I think it's a it's totally unrelated. But it was
not a cure as the driven snow political election, and
(17:15):
he ran against a guy who had some stuff swirling
around him. It wasn't much of a choice for Boston
for Boston residents, and he won. But on this case,
he has dropped the ball. They should have charged this
guy with something. You always can go back to the
grand jury and and increase the charges.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
You know, right exactly, but he was he was let
go with a handslap.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well hopefully.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And here's what my concern is, James. If there's no
charges pending against the driver, and I do not believe
there any Every story of Red says there are not.
What's going to prevent him from believe in the country,
you know, I mean, you you bring a charge whatever
the hicular homicide. If you're driving and you kill somebody,
(18:05):
you're going to be looking at the hicular homicide unless
the person jumped out in front of the car to
commit suicide. You know, they can always be an exception
to the rule. But if you hit someone and you're
not paying attention, you know, you get him on that
you make sure that his passport is If he has
a passport, it's removed in court motion motion in the
(18:27):
room to get the passport, so he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
But exactly, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
This one is frustrating, James.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Uh, It's it's ridiculous. It's it's more than frustrating.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I graduated
from the same law school as this guy. We both
graduate from Boston University. I graduated a little bit aheaven.
But I know what needs, what needs to, what needed
to be have to have been done by this point.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And that's why I'm calling it out. And I got
to tell you one of the things, James, I'm more
than will I will call him as I see him.
And if this guy doesn't like me, it doesn't want
to come on my show ever again, I could kill less.
If he's a man, if he has you know, if
he wants to, you know, man up and come on.
I'll treat him fairly and I'll ask him questions. And
if he's got good answers to my questions.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
With all of your callers, you give them so much
courtesy just to get your point across or to get
an opinion from the caller. And I truly give you
cohuesion about that because you've never you've never slapped anybody
(19:43):
in the face or been you know, indignant to them.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I appreciate that. Like you said, James, I'm up in
my newscast at the bottom of the hour. Please keep
calling this program. I need your voice and I need
a lot more voices on this one because if people
don't rise up and and when I when I raised
this issue, you know, the politicians will figure who cares.
You know, if if the Senate President and the Senate
(20:09):
UH president, and the and the House Speaker UH says
to the auditor, you're not going to audit us because
we're more powerful than you are. You know, we got
to support the state auditor there, simple, simple as that, James.
I appreciate your time. Thank you, my friend. We'll talk soon.
Call mem any time anytime. Thank you. Quick break news
coming up. I got Joe on the other side. I
(20:31):
got Jake coming up in Roxbury. That'll be our first
caller from Boston. Jake, stay right there. I want to
get right to you right after the news.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
By the way, according to the Globe story tomorrow, Boston
police in the Suffolk County District Attorney's office declined to comment.
That's helpful. Huh, transparent? See it It's finest. Next up,
Joe and Lynn. Joe next on Nightside, Jacob you with me, Jake, Hey, Joe.
Speaker 9 (21:07):
Thank you very much. I want to say that oil
is just as bad. Well it's not, it's terrible, but
this is horrible. I mean, people do stupid things, but
this is crazy. This driver should have been If that
were you or I, we'd be removed. And maybe you
can call the district attorney wherever his name is and
ask him why he won't come on the show, or
try get him on. Maybe BEZ can hound him or something.
(21:29):
This is horrible, and I hope again.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Get people to come on the show. Joe. But one
of the things I learned is that sometimes you can
lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
And so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
There are several candidates or political leaders Elizabeth Warren at
the top of the list, who's never been on this show,
and she knows that I'm not a big fan of
hers and that I would ask her tough questions. I'm
not going to sit there and throw softballs at these people.
And I'm sure that Kevin Aiden's got is saying the
last show you want to go on right now is
Dan Ray because he's going to ask you questions to
(22:05):
which you have no answers.
Speaker 9 (22:07):
He should be ashamed of himself. If it happened to
his kid, it'd be a different story. You know, it
could happen to you and me. Anybody could get hit.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
A five year old boy who was dropped off on
the wrong side of the street, had to cross a
city street. I don't know what the traffic is like
on that street at this point during the day. I
don't know. I've never been there at you know, two
forty in the afternoon. But this child gets off the
bus and within seconds he's run over by the very
(22:35):
bus that he just got off.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
What about a monitor. Those buses should have monitors.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
There's just a whole slew of things. And I really
hope that they get that company out of Massachusetts, and
that company really gets clobbered because they deserve it. And
the driver shouldn't have ran away. He should have stayed,
admit his mistake, and that would he.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Stayed at the scene of the fatal accident. But the
fact of the matter is that when he i'd swapped
the vehicles in matt the vehicle or vehicles in Mattapan
earlier in the afternoon, he never stopped, never called in
and said, hey, I've had an accident. So this is
a guy who was pleased and his certificate had inspired
had expired in December of last year, meaning twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9 (23:19):
Oh, we shouldn't have been driving, no question, shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
These are all questions that the DA has. This DA
is m I a here, and that's why I'm called
him out. Joe.
Speaker 9 (23:30):
You know, one of the things I don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
You know, I do believe in one of my responsibilities
is to give people an opportunity to speak truth to power,
and and I really do believe that That that sounds corny,
but I really do believe that. Thanks Joe.
Speaker 9 (23:45):
I agree with you. Great, we may not agree, but
I agree with you on this. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Thanks, talk to you so let me go to Jake
and Roxbury. Jake, thank you for calling in. You're the
first person from Boston who has had the courage and
to pick up the phone and call in.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Thank you, Hey, Dan, thank you. I'm a little piece
of leather, but I'm well put together.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I like that. I like that.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, that was wing me a little while back on
another call.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
But anyway, I am a product obviously of Boston public schools.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I am too. You and I are the same.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
There we go.
Speaker 10 (24:19):
So I was one of those students that got bussed
out from Mission Hill to Brighton and went through all that.
And back in those days, we did have bus monitors.
I can't speak to why they didn't have a monitor
on this bus, because I've seen it. There's a big
company on the corner of Malina cass in Washington Street,
and they have the monitors there.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I mean, you're seeing them all the time in.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
Dunk and Dornuts early in the morning and they ride
out with those buses every morning. So I don't know
much about this company. However, I can say it is
a tragedy. I can see that the driver, you know,
many moons ago. My son is thirty, so thirty years ago,
I worked for a hotel chain that gives you fresh
hot cookies in the morning, and I drove their van.
(25:01):
So when I was hired a week later, the lady
came to me and told me that they'd been notified
by the R and V that my license was going
to expire in like three months. She said, you need
to get this done. And so forty years ago they
were notified. So there had to be some system in
place where the parent company notifies the let's say the
(25:21):
subcontract of the parent company yep, and says, hey, listen,
you have these guys whose certic fit's going to expire.
So the only ship is on that subcontractor to make
sure they ain't that guy at a certain point thirty
to sixty days prior to exploration, to make sure these
certic fits are done. And they had no plan in
place to take care of that. Obviously, there was some
(25:43):
system failure that let this guy continue to drive unbeknownst
to the company, or the company just ignored it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
No that this company apparently apparently this guy had been
hired need the Globe article in two thousand and twenty
three May of twenty and twenty three, so he worked
for the company for a couple of years. His certificate
(26:12):
had expired in December of twenty twenty four. Okay, so
he was he was driving illegally. The company had apparently
told him, Hey, you got to get your certificate. And
I'm not an expert, so I don't know exactly if
the certificate was a CDL or what they're talking about,
but they used they used, they used the word certificate,
(26:36):
and he did not when he was driving in April
twenty twenty eighth, at the time of the accident, he
had not renewed his certificate. And I don't know if
he had to take a driver's test, but clearly this guy, yeah,
he was a substitute teacher. He substitute, excuse me, a
substitute bus driver who had, disaccorded to the Globe story,
(27:00):
had never driven this route before, right.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Regardless of that, he knows the ownership is on him
to make sure all those paperwork is up to date.
The company knows the ownership is on them to make
sure anybody they put behind the wheel is actually competent
and certified to drive those vehicles. So there's no you know,
there's no beating around the bush on those two facts. However,
if he had an accident prior to that in the
(27:28):
same day, he probably was in you know, the anxiety
level was up for him. He already knew he was
in some type of problem. Unfortunately, that child was the
victim of his negligence. And that's all it can be called,
because technically he should have hit them lights turned off
that if he had no monitor and you got a
(27:48):
five year old, hit the lights, put it in pop,
turn it off and guide that child across the street.
You don't move until you see that child on the
sidewalk somewhere. And the story.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, the Globe article tomorrow morning says, at the time
of the deadly crash, Charles have been driving for BPS
with a state required certification that had expired in December.
Transdev this is the company. The French company alerted him
last year it was about to expire, but he did
not renew it. Officials have said. My question is if
(28:23):
he didn't renew it, why did they let him continue
to drive?
Speaker 10 (28:26):
Exactly, they should have had a stop drive order for
this guy at the you know, at the yard.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm with him totally.
Speaker 10 (28:34):
So, yeah, thirty to sixty days prior they should have
had to stop drive because you need to prove that
these cix fits have been renewed and you're in proper
you know, all your PaperWorks in proper order.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
End up story.
Speaker 10 (28:47):
There is liability all around outside of the fact of
his liability, which I would also say, you know, I
wouldn't what do we call that? Maybe I'm not the
lawyer type, but maybe just a manslaughter charge.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I don't know, but well, the minimum the minimum charge
without it would be vehicular homicide.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Now if you get, if you get and can prove
that you know he was inattentive and he was negligence.
If it gets to a higher level of negligence, then
you get it up to in voluntary manslaughter. The facts
of the case always drive the charge, and you don't
overcharge people. But vehicular homicide is a charge that is
(29:28):
absolutely appropriate in this case. And when you're charging with
the vehicular homicide, you take a passport away, you make
sure that he doesn't have a passport and you and
therefore you know where he is.
Speaker 10 (29:46):
I think that the whole passport and the whole immigration piece,
I don't even consider that in this case, just because
what he did was absolutely wrong. So I think that
the court's automatically once they suspend your license, you know,
they let you know, you know, other if you're if
you're obviously not from him, you're you know, all these
other factors come in the place.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
They should automatically look at that and well, you know what.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
What what I'm saying, uh, Jake, is that if if
if you or I were ever involved tragically in a
situation like this and we were charged with the Hiculo homicide,
if there was any suspicion that you or I would
would flee the country, You're going to say, you know,
(30:30):
would make you know, we want to have his passport. Now,
I don't know you know how long this guy. I
know nothing about his background, But if you're facing a
vehicular homicide charge, that might be upgraded. You know, one
of the things you as a prosecutor, you're going to say,
what's his background, what are his family roots here? What
are the chances that he would you know, if he
(30:51):
turns out he's married, he's got a couple of kids here.
That's that's all of those facts drive your decisions as
a good prosecutor, Jake, I got a run man, great call,
you got to call more often, simplest everybody.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I will all right, quick.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Break, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But we go to the phone. It's going to go
to Florence and Groveland, Florence next time. Nice. I appreciate
you calling in your take on this tragedy Florence.
Speaker 11 (31:23):
Hello Dan.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
Dan.
Speaker 11 (31:25):
First of all, I want to thank you for pursuing
this case, my pleasure, and I hope, like you said,
you will every month we'll discuss it.
Speaker 9 (31:40):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Absolutely, I give you my word on that. I give
you my word.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (31:46):
The other thing is, Dan, this guy, this bus driver,
did not follow any of the legal procedures that go
along with being a school about strive.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
He allowed, as you know, he allowed his certificate to
drive to lapse and was told by the company to
renew it, and he didn't renew it.
Speaker 11 (32:11):
And he was not to let the child out of
the bus on the opposite side of the street. And
there's supposed to be for the drivers, whether it's the
large school bus or the private van buses that take
(32:33):
children to win Front school, that he is to see
that there's an adult there, a parent or a grandparent
to walk with the child to the house, and I
am shocked that we're not hearing that he was arrested.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
He being.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
No charge, is fied no charge of style, so he's.
Speaker 11 (33:03):
Not being held accountable for all his wrongdoing at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I don't want people to forget about it. Problem.
Speaker 11 (33:14):
Go get them, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Thank you, Florence, and I so much appreciate you joining
the conversation tonight. As always, you will talk soon. I
don't talk to you. Have a have a Thanksgiving, have a.
Speaker 11 (33:26):
Good thanks I wanted to issue a good one too,
and have a lot of fun with those little grandchildren
around the turkey time.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Okay, they keep them away from the turkey. That's what
I got to Thanks Florence, talk to you soon. Have
a great night. All right. Let me get Will in
Long Island. Will. I'm gonna get you here. But we're
getting up on getting close to the to the to
the witching hour of eleven o'clock, all right.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Ed, Will, I'm just I'm just extremely confused by this case, right,
I mean, not just the lack of criminal charges, because
to be honest with you, we know that you know
you're you're an attorney, you're a defense attorney. Actually, I'm
sure if you took the other angle and weren't as enraged,
you can find defense here somehow. You don't know why
his eyes weren't on the road. You don't know if
(34:14):
he was distracted by something.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I mean, well, you know, you know the case now.
I mean, I don't think there's much of a defense here.
You you you sideswipe another vehicle defense.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Well, I'm not making a defense for him because if
he had reported that my dad was a bus driver,
by the way, if he had reported that accident that
he had had when he sideswiped them, they would he
would have been probably removed from the route that was
not even his route to begin with. And then there's
really not there's really a lot of conflicting information about
(34:44):
this case actually, and there's really no information about the driver,
really very little except here's what's I don't because because
I see the civil cases of slam dunk. It's easy.
I was an insurance guy for many years. This is
there there. They're just wondering how much they're paying.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It's absolutely deep deep pocket French company, no problem.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
Talk of these accidents in the past month, just you know,
in one in New York one in Texas one and
one of them was actually run over by his own boss.
Actually twelve year old.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Kid, that's what happened here. But this is a five
year old to get off the bus within a matter
of a few secs.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
I live in New York where this has happened many
times over the years. Typically, you know, it's hard to prove,
and you know the attorneys, the the das don't like
taking cases that aren't slam, don't convictions for them. Right,
it's homicide case, well, a vehicular homicide case, though you
do know requires some degree of negligence. Right now, we
know that he did things if you.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Read the Global, if you read the Global article, which
would be in the paper and it's online.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Now, right, they did say that he took his eyes
off the road, but we don't know why he took
his eyes off the road, right, like before you brought
up and I'm sure you weren't assuming this that he
was on his phone, but you brought that off, right,
say that.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I never mentioned his phone.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
You said, we get distracted by things, not him, per se.
What I'm saying is, when you're on a bus full
of fifty kids, there's certainly plenty of distractions going on.
There is protocol that he's supposed to wait for them.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I'm talking to as a lawyer, now, I'm not a
talk show host. When this is as slam dunk a
case as you can have of vehicular homicide with all
of the exigen circumstances, this is a classic. The question
is do they get him from manslaughter. Has his negligence
(36:36):
risen to the to the degree of.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
I've looked at some of these cases that have happened.
Most of them don't actually have charges brought, and the
ones that even do, most of these vehicular manslaughter charges
get tled down to actually be in misdemeanors, wind up
with no jail time, and wind up with slaps on
the wrist. This is what happens in a lot of
these cases because they're so hard to really prove. There
(37:00):
is protocol for what he's supposed to do. He's supposed
to count how many kids got off the bus. He's
supposed to see where they are, and he's supposed to
see where they go. And there's a lot of other
even going there. And I'm not even going there with that.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I'm not even going there with that. What I'm saying
to you is in Massachusetts, if you're driving an automobile
and there's a collegease.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Don't think I'm defending them.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So I know that, I know that. But but if
there's a collision with an automobile and the individual dies, okay,
unless that person has literally, you know, has run into
the automobile or has driven a bicycle or a remotorbike
into the side of the automobile. If the automn there's
(37:42):
a there's a there's a heavy responsibility. If you're operating
a vehicle and it's it's you know, two thousand pounds,
it could kill people. And I'm just telling you that
my experience, and you may be may have more experience
than I do. I don't think so. But my experience
is that the hiculoh homicie is the minimum charge. This
guy should have been charged with within days of the accident, right,
(38:06):
and then.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
They can understand that perspective. And but from being in
the industry, I've been in an insurance for many, many years,
most of the times these things don't lead to that
and the negligence needed to prove even in vehicular manslaughter, Okay,
most of the times those charges are brought because of
ouys at DUIs. Very rarely are they brought in just
accidents where you know that because you're talking about driving
(38:28):
them all. How many times have you seen someone hit
someone with He has been effect.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Driving a school bus without a license. This is a tent, but.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
You know the certification, the certification that he needs to have,
which he obviously had at one point right when they
hired him in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, I'm up at the eleven. I gotta let you
run a good call.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Great, I'm not I'm not defending him. Please, he killed
the kid.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I'm suggesting you are. I'm not suggesting you are. Thank you,
good night. We're gonna stick with this. I got a
couple of lines six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty,
six one, seven, nine, three thirty the topic that we
were going to discuss. I'll explain on the other side
if we I want to stick with this, keep the
lines going.
He's night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w BZY Boston's
Meat Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
For those of you who are just joining us, we
have just spent an hour and we're going to continue
to talk about the same subject because I think it's important.
There's a piece that The Boston Globe cleared today on
digital at six point fifteen this morning. It will be
and I assume tomorrow morning's print edition of The Globe.
The Globe reporter did a great job. His name is
(00:27):
John Hilliard. I do not know John, but he did
a great job with his story. He has seen the
video that shows that the Boston Public School bus driver's
eyes were off the road when Hyde Park Kindy gardener,
five year old Lenz Arthur Joseph was struck and killed
(00:48):
in that April bus crash. The little guy, Lens Joseph
had just gotten off the bus in the company of
his eleven year old cousin, and there is video on
the bus which shows literally second by second, this boy
getting off the bus, getting off the bus, and then
(01:11):
the bus door closing and the driver almost immediately starting up.
The driver knew or should have known, that he had
dropped the little boy and his eleven year old cousin
on the wrong side of the Hyde Park Street earlier
in that bus ride. This driver allegedly has struck one
(01:32):
or two vehicles, depending upon which news report you believe,
and left the scene of that accident, which was his
fault because he struck parked vehicles. It wasn't as if
he was involved in a collision where someone might have
run into him. He struck vehicles, never left the scene
(01:52):
of an accident, did not report it to his company,
and the company, which is a French transportation company and
eleven billion dollar company, Transdev, is now involved in a
civil lawsuit with the family. But I'm concerned where is
the criminal activity. We have a district attorney who is
(02:14):
Mia Kevin Hayden. Kevin, if you're listening tonight, you want
to come on tomorrow night. We can talk about it.
You can tell me all the work that your great
office has been doing here to bring justice for Lens Joseph.
Simple as that. I don't think there's a lot of
facts here. Apparently the bus driver has been clear of
(02:34):
having any alcohol or drug intoxication. That's out there. But
the bottom line is that there is a vehicular homicide.
At a minimum, it should be vehicular homicide. This guy
was driving. His certificate as a bus driver had expired,
so there's a lot to work with here, and they
(02:56):
certainly could have done something early on, taking a passport,
held him on some form of bail, just to make
sure that he would appear. And this is gonna be
I'm troubled by it. I'm troubled because if this had
happened in the town in which Kevin Hayden the DA
grew up, which is Newton, or the town where he
(03:19):
went to high school in Denham, in Noble and Greno,
or any of the other really nice cities and towns
around the more affluent suburbs. Let me put it like that,
I don't think would be waiting six almost now seven
months to get word from the district attorney as to
(03:39):
what was happening. I kind of understand it. Maybe there's
an assistant DA out there who wants to tell me
I'm dead wrong, Fine, bring it on. I don't understand
why this will take so long. I don't want this
little boy his memory to be forgotten, and I will
continue to bring this up periodically in my I say
(03:59):
heads hats off to John Hilliard of the Boston Globe.
I hope he's listening. I'm a big fan. At this point,
he broke down, second by second. Also, the cameras on
the bus showed that the driver apparently was not paying
attention at critical moments, which could have contributed to him
running over this five year old child who had just
(04:22):
gotten off his bus. Let me go back to Steven Bridgewater. Steve,
I held you over. We're back. You go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
All right, Jan You know, I think you were answered
by question before I even asked it. I was gonna
ask what what ideas do you have as to why
it's taken this long? Like one of the first call
of it called said something about he thinks something's being
covered up. Do you have any idea, any ideas, dad
at all, as to what that could be.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, the only thing that I can say, and this
is mere speculation on my part, okay, is that if
the public has a very short attention span, Okay, I
hate to put it like that, but we're all on
our phones. We're looking at our phones, we're looking at TikTok,
we're looking at Instagram. I do the same thing. And
(05:14):
oh did you see that there was a picture of
the new There was a new gorilla or baby gorilla
born in a Knoxville zoo in Tennessee today. Oh, let
me send that to all my friends because I want
them to see this picture and I wanted I want
people to think I'm cool because I'm in part of this,
and I want a couple of the Patriots got hurt yesterday, Well,
let me let me send that out to my friend.
(05:34):
So we don't pay attention to the things that are
really important. What difference does it make to me that
a gorilla was born? Cute gorilla is a highlighted on
ABC News tonight. What difference does it make to me
that a couple of New England Patriots got banged up yesterday?
You know, look, I don't want anybody to get hurt, Patriots,
particularly Okay, I want them to go to the super Bowl.
(05:55):
But it doesn't mean anything to me. But this does
mean something to me because I went to the Boston
public schools. I wasn't going to Boston public schools when
I was in kindergarten. I never went to kindergarten. I
went to a Catholic school for eight years. I walked
to the school, never had a bus. So, but this
little kid's life is over because the bus driver, clearly
(06:18):
I don't think, intentionally went to hit him. And if
he hit him unintentionally, then the driver was negligent and
he might have potentially I'm not sure if the facts
would show he was reckless. But I can tell you
as a lawyer, you bring the charges. If you have
to increase the charges later on, so be it. But
(06:38):
you I think sometimes these public officials think, you know what,
don't forget about it. The public won't forget the public
will forget about it. I'm not going to forget about it.
I'm not gonna let my audience forget about it.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I feel I remember watching it on TV. I saw it.
I think it's not claim strong in my mind anymore, dear,
but I remember seeing it on the news.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, but what happens is, you know, ironically, we had
a granddaughter born the day before, and it kind of
was a connection that that made me. You know, look,
I grew up in Boston, I grew up in Reedville,
I grew up in Hyde Park. These were streets where
where I played sports and I knew and this kid
(07:29):
is struck by the bus that he got off two seconds. Literally, literally,
this is what this story will tell us tomorrow. Within
seconds of the moment that he got off the bus.
Where's the outrage? People should be calling Kevin Hayden's office
every day, twice a day. Hayden was like an absentee
(07:50):
DA he's unavailable. I almost don't want to waste my time,
but I'll say it right now, Kevin, I went to
you law school. You went to be you law school.
I went a few years ahead of you. But guess
what you're invited to want to come on this show
any night this week, any night next week and and
explain what's going on in this investigation? He should Why
(08:13):
the hell is it taking so long?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah, you might never know again, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh no, no, no, no no no, let me tell you.
I will stay on this. We'll we'll, we'll revisit this
every month if we have to, and when Kevin is
up for election, we will remind the audience about this case.
Trust me on.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
That, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
All right, I'm gonna let you run. Steve has always
I appreciate your your interest in this case. It's it's
just tragic. This little boy is dead. He's never gonna
see Christmas. He's never gonna he's never gonna see another birthday.
And is anybody does anybody care? I care, and you care,
and everybody who's calling in cares.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So Dain, keep it alive, Just keep it alive.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Promise you I will.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
You got Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It took me, It took me. It took me fifteen
years to find justice for Joe Silvadi. This will be easy.
Get heard that. Thank you?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh my god, Yeah, thank thank you.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Bout you soon.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Quick break, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Night Side with Dan Ray on ws Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We're gonna keep rolling here. You're gonna go next to
Eric and Attleborough. Eric, you're next on Nightsiger right ahead.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Oh yeah, hey Dan, thank you for taking my call.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Just one of the.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Interject with something that I happen to know about trans debts.
All right. The company adopted, or I should say, entered
into something called the Tent Partnership for Refugees in twenty
twenty two. And I can tell you that, you know,
(09:58):
the Tent Partnership for Refugee he's you know, it's uh
it operates you know, worldwide with UH many of the
Fortune five hundred companies you know pretty much big a
pledge to hire a certain quota of said, you know, refugees.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Now, we have no idea, we have the reason that
may be true, but I can't well I'm specific, let
me finish, hold on, held on, Eric, I don't know
under what circumstances this gentleman, Jean Charles was hired. And
I don't want to draw a conclusion without you know,
(10:44):
some some substantial proof of that. I mean, I have.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
No Yeah, I'm not talking about that gentleman like the
the perpetrator specifically that I believe is you know, taking
a look around, especially the last you know, I would
say about fifteen years. Just the deprecation of the uniformity
of the application of you know, specific you know, due diligence.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right. But what I'm saying, we're talking about it. Here's
the problem, Eric, We're talking about a driver who was
certificate had expired. I don't know his nationality. I know
his name is Jean Charles. His certificate had expired. That's
what I know. I have no nor do I want
to link this to any sort of a de a
(11:31):
dei hire because that's I don't know.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
Yeah, that's that I don't I'm not trying.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
That guy could be. This guy could be as much
he could have been born in the country as well
as you and I are. I have nothing to to
know about that, So why we even bringing it up there?
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Because I just happen to know about the a specific
you know, segment of the population which is very active
online in the Twitter flash x you know sphere. Yeah,
if they ever calought windows of the company trans that
has a partnership with Michelle Wou, who you know, is
(12:09):
kind of known.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Why bring your name into it, Kevin, Kevin, do me
a favorite, don't, don't try to don't, don't try to
be cute with me. Okay, this is I think you're.
I think you're You're about ten feet off of first
base and I'm picking you off. Okay, it's as simple
as that. There's too much. All I want to know
is what happened. That's all I want to know. I'm
a lawyer, I'm a journalist. I stay on solid ground.
(12:34):
If we find out that there's more to this story,
I'll be the first to tell you about it. But
I'm not gonna go jump off a building without a parachute.
Simple as that, I appreciate your call, but I'll say
gonna say good night, have a great night. Eric, thank you.
Let me let me go next to James and Quincy. James,
appreciate your patience, your health through the news. Go right ahead, James.
Speaker 7 (12:57):
Yes, Dan, I am totally appalled at this situation. I'm
a CDL driver, I've driven for over fifty years.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Good for you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
This should have never got past first base.
Speaker 7 (13:17):
And I'm also totally disappointed in the community not being
on the ball and upset with it too, because, first
of all.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Thank you number one. And all I can do is
I throw it out that I didn't think we would
get an hour out of it. We're continuing to talk
about it. My audience decides what's important. I simply offer options,
and this one's really important. This little boy, five years old,
he walks off that bus in the company of his
(13:48):
eleven year old cousin. And I'm saying this. You know
the story, but just so for people who are tuning in.
People always tune in and tune out. He gets off
the bus within a matter of three or four seconds.
According to this article in The Boss Globe, he's hit
by the true hes hit by the bus.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
He just got off right.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Unheard of.
Speaker 8 (14:08):
Yeah, no attentiveness to the road in either aspect of
traffic or anything. His eyes should have been on the
people that were getting off of the bus and successfully
reaching the other side, regardless of if he went and
(14:30):
let him off on the wrong side or on occurred.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
But especially, but James, especially when you consider everything that's involved.
This guy had was involved in an accident where he
apparently sideswiped one or two vehicles in Mattapan just a
fast beforehand. Then he doesn't get this child to where
(14:56):
the child should be. Kyle is five years old. I mean, yeah,
I'm worried about a ten year old kid acrossing the street,
never mind a five year ox and he as opposed
to being absolutely certain that this child. So the hit
and run accident now pales in comparison. You know, the
side swiping of the car. Now we're talking about a
(15:18):
dead child. So if his folk, if he was distracted
by the side swiping of a car, which one gets
fixed for one thousand dollars two thousand dollars insurance company,
bad enough, leaving the scene of an accident, bad enough.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
But now exactly you have the death of.
Speaker 7 (15:33):
A child, Oh, which magnifies the whole situation.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Not in a world which you grew up you and
I grew up. James.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
Oh, and it's sad.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
It's sad.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
It's very sad. Had it been my child, my grandchild,
or whatever, that guy would not be able to even
get home for the news.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Well, I understand, but I'm sure that you know that
we were what we're We are taught not to engage
in self help. That that's the term I learned in
law school many years ago. And we rely upon the
police and the public officials like the district attorney. The
public official here who I'm calling out is the District
(16:19):
Attorney of Suffolk County, Kevin Hayden. It's been almost seven
months since this tragedy, and we know except for the
story that you'll see in the Boston Globe tomorrow morning.
And my hat's up to John Hilliard and the Boston
Globe for putting this story out there. Kevin Hayden is
m I a missing in action right now?
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Yeah, yeah, which is which is another slap in the
face by the communities.
Speaker 5 (16:45):
Yep, yes, sir, yeah, Well he got.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
He got voted in and there was a lot of
controversy around his election. He was appointed by Charlie Baker. Okay,
so I mean there was some cont diversary about the election.
Uh and there I think he actually paid an ethics fine.
I think it's a it's totally unrelated. But it was
not a cure as the driven snow political election, and
(17:15):
he ran against a guy who had some stuff swirling
around him. It wasn't much of a choice for Boston
for Boston residents, and he won. But on this case,
he has dropped the ball. They should have charged this
guy with something. You always can go back to the
grand jury and and increase the charges.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
You know, right exactly, but he was he was let
go with a handslap.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well hopefully.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
And here's what my concern is, James. If there's no
charges pending against the driver, and I do not believe
there any Every story of Red says there are not.
What's going to prevent him from believe in the country,
you know, I mean, you you bring a charge whatever
the hicular homicide. If you're driving and you kill somebody,
(18:05):
you're going to be looking at the hicular homicide unless
the person jumped out in front of the car to
commit suicide. You know, they can always be an exception
to the rule. But if you hit someone and you're
not paying attention, you know, you get him on that
you make sure that his passport is If he has
a passport, it's removed in court motion motion in the
(18:27):
room to get the passport, so he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 7 (18:31):
But exactly, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
This one is frustrating, James.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Uh, It's it's ridiculous. It's it's more than frustrating.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I graduated
from the same law school as this guy. We both
graduate from Boston University. I graduated a little bit aheaven.
But I know what needs, what needs to, what needed
to be have to have been done by this point.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And that's why I'm calling it out. And I got
to tell you one of the things, James, I'm more
than will I will call him as I see him.
And if this guy doesn't like me, it doesn't want
to come on my show ever again, I could kill less.
If he's a man, if he has you know, if
he wants to, you know, man up and come on.
I'll treat him fairly and I'll ask him questions. And
if he's got good answers to my questions.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
With all of your callers, you give them so much
courtesy just to get your point across or to get
an opinion from the caller. And I truly give you
cohuesion about that because you've never you've never slapped anybody
(19:43):
in the face or been you know, indignant to them.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I appreciate that. Like you said, James, I'm up in
my newscast at the bottom of the hour. Please keep
calling this program. I need your voice and I need
a lot more voices on this one because if people
don't rise up and and when I when I raised
this issue, you know, the politicians will figure who cares.
You know, if if the Senate President and the Senate
(20:09):
UH president, and the and the House Speaker UH says
to the auditor, you're not going to audit us because
we're more powerful than you are. You know, we got
to support the state auditor there, simple, simple as that, James.
I appreciate your time. Thank you, my friend. We'll talk soon.
Call mem any time anytime. Thank you. Quick break news
coming up. I got Joe on the other side. I
(20:31):
got Jake coming up in Roxbury. That'll be our first
caller from Boston. Jake, stay right there. I want to
get right to you right after the news.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
By the way, according to the Globe story tomorrow, Boston
police in the Suffolk County District Attorney's office declined to comment.
That's helpful. Huh, transparent? See it It's finest. Next up,
Joe and Lynn. Joe next on Nightside, Jacob you with me, Jake, Hey, Joe.
Speaker 9 (21:07):
Thank you very much. I want to say that oil
is just as bad. Well it's not, it's terrible, but
this is horrible. I mean, people do stupid things, but
this is crazy. This driver should have been If that
were you or I, we'd be removed. And maybe you
can call the district attorney wherever his name is and
ask him why he won't come on the show, or
try get him on. Maybe BEZ can hound him or something.
(21:29):
This is horrible, and I hope again.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Get people to come on the show. Joe. But one
of the things I learned is that sometimes you can
lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
And so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
There are several candidates or political leaders Elizabeth Warren at
the top of the list, who's never been on this show,
and she knows that I'm not a big fan of
hers and that I would ask her tough questions. I'm
not going to sit there and throw softballs at these people.
And I'm sure that Kevin Aiden's got is saying the
last show you want to go on right now is
Dan Ray because he's going to ask you questions to
(22:05):
which you have no answers.
Speaker 9 (22:07):
He should be ashamed of himself. If it happened to
his kid, it'd be a different story. You know, it
could happen to you and me. Anybody could get hit.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
A five year old boy who was dropped off on
the wrong side of the street, had to cross a
city street. I don't know what the traffic is like
on that street at this point during the day. I
don't know. I've never been there at you know, two
forty in the afternoon. But this child gets off the
bus and within seconds he's run over by the very
(22:35):
bus that he just got off.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
What about a monitor. Those buses should have monitors.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
There's just a whole slew of things. And I really
hope that they get that company out of Massachusetts, and
that company really gets clobbered because they deserve it. And
the driver shouldn't have ran away. He should have stayed,
admit his mistake, and that would he.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Stayed at the scene of the fatal accident. But the
fact of the matter is that when he i'd swapped
the vehicles in matt the vehicle or vehicles in Mattapan
earlier in the afternoon, he never stopped, never called in
and said, hey, I've had an accident. So this is
a guy who was pleased and his certificate had inspired
had expired in December of last year, meaning twenty twenty four.
Speaker 9 (23:19):
Oh, we shouldn't have been driving, no question, shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
These are all questions that the DA has. This DA
is m I a here, and that's why I'm called
him out. Joe.
Speaker 9 (23:30):
You know, one of the things I don't blame you.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
You know, I do believe in one of my responsibilities
is to give people an opportunity to speak truth to power,
and and I really do believe that That that sounds corny,
but I really do believe that. Thanks Joe.
Speaker 9 (23:45):
I agree with you. Great, we may not agree, but
I agree with you on this. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Thanks, talk to you so let me go to Jake
and Roxbury. Jake, thank you for calling in. You're the
first person from Boston who has had the courage and
to pick up the phone and call in.
Speaker 10 (23:59):
Thank you, Hey, Dan, thank you. I'm a little piece
of leather, but I'm well put together.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I like that. I like that.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, that was wing me a little while back on
another call.
Speaker 10 (24:11):
But anyway, I am a product obviously of Boston public schools.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I am too. You and I are the same.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
There we go.
Speaker 10 (24:19):
So I was one of those students that got bussed
out from Mission Hill to Brighton and went through all that.
And back in those days, we did have bus monitors.
I can't speak to why they didn't have a monitor
on this bus, because I've seen it. There's a big
company on the corner of Malina cass in Washington Street,
and they have the monitors there.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I mean, you're seeing them all the time in.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
Dunk and Dornuts early in the morning and they ride
out with those buses every morning. So I don't know
much about this company. However, I can say it is
a tragedy. I can see that the driver, you know,
many moons ago. My son is thirty, so thirty years ago,
I worked for a hotel chain that gives you fresh
hot cookies in the morning, and I drove their van.
(25:01):
So when I was hired a week later, the lady
came to me and told me that they'd been notified
by the R and V that my license was going
to expire in like three months. She said, you need
to get this done. And so forty years ago they
were notified. So there had to be some system in
place where the parent company notifies the let's say the
(25:21):
subcontract of the parent company yep, and says, hey, listen,
you have these guys whose certic fit's going to expire.
So the only ship is on that subcontractor to make
sure they ain't that guy at a certain point thirty
to sixty days prior to exploration, to make sure these
certic fits are done. And they had no plan in
place to take care of that. Obviously, there was some
(25:43):
system failure that let this guy continue to drive unbeknownst
to the company, or the company just ignored it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
No that this company apparently apparently this guy had been
hired need the Globe article in two thousand and twenty
three May of twenty and twenty three, so he worked
for the company for a couple of years. His certificate
(26:12):
had expired in December of twenty twenty four. Okay, so
he was he was driving illegally. The company had apparently
told him, Hey, you got to get your certificate. And
I'm not an expert, so I don't know exactly if
the certificate was a CDL or what they're talking about,
but they used they used, they used the word certificate,
(26:36):
and he did not when he was driving in April
twenty twenty eighth, at the time of the accident, he
had not renewed his certificate. And I don't know if
he had to take a driver's test, but clearly this guy, yeah,
he was a substitute teacher. He substitute, excuse me, a
substitute bus driver who had, disaccorded to the Globe story,
(27:00):
had never driven this route before, right.
Speaker 10 (27:07):
Regardless of that, he knows the ownership is on him
to make sure all those paperwork is up to date.
The company knows the ownership is on them to make
sure anybody they put behind the wheel is actually competent
and certified to drive those vehicles. So there's no you know,
there's no beating around the bush on those two facts. However,
if he had an accident prior to that in the
(27:28):
same day, he probably was in you know, the anxiety
level was up for him. He already knew he was
in some type of problem. Unfortunately, that child was the
victim of his negligence. And that's all it can be called,
because technically he should have hit them lights turned off
that if he had no monitor and you got a
(27:48):
five year old, hit the lights, put it in pop,
turn it off and guide that child across the street.
You don't move until you see that child on the
sidewalk somewhere. And the story.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, the Globe article tomorrow morning says, at the time
of the deadly crash, Charles have been driving for BPS
with a state required certification that had expired in December.
Transdev this is the company. The French company alerted him
last year it was about to expire, but he did
not renew it. Officials have said. My question is if
(28:23):
he didn't renew it, why did they let him continue
to drive?
Speaker 10 (28:26):
Exactly, they should have had a stop drive order for
this guy at the you know, at the yard.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I'm with him totally.
Speaker 10 (28:34):
So, yeah, thirty to sixty days prior they should have
had to stop drive because you need to prove that
these cix fits have been renewed and you're in proper
you know, all your PaperWorks in proper order.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
End up story.
Speaker 10 (28:47):
There is liability all around outside of the fact of
his liability, which I would also say, you know, I
wouldn't what do we call that? Maybe I'm not the
lawyer type, but maybe just a manslaughter charge.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I don't know, but well, the minimum the minimum charge
without it would be vehicular homicide.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Now if you get, if you get and can prove
that you know he was inattentive and he was negligence.
If it gets to a higher level of negligence, then
you get it up to in voluntary manslaughter. The facts
of the case always drive the charge, and you don't
overcharge people. But vehicular homicide is a charge that is
(29:28):
absolutely appropriate in this case. And when you're charging with
the vehicular homicide, you take a passport away, you make
sure that he doesn't have a passport and you and
therefore you know where he is.
Speaker 10 (29:46):
I think that the whole passport and the whole immigration piece,
I don't even consider that in this case, just because
what he did was absolutely wrong. So I think that
the court's automatically once they suspend your license, you know,
they let you know, you know, other if you're if
you're obviously not from him, you're you know, all these
other factors come in the place.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
They should automatically look at that and well, you know what.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
What what I'm saying, uh, Jake, is that if if
if you or I were ever involved tragically in a
situation like this and we were charged with the Hiculo homicide,
if there was any suspicion that you or I would
would flee the country, You're going to say, you know,
(30:30):
would make you know, we want to have his passport. Now,
I don't know you know how long this guy. I
know nothing about his background, But if you're facing a
vehicular homicide charge, that might be upgraded. You know, one
of the things you as a prosecutor, you're going to say,
what's his background, what are his family roots here? What
are the chances that he would you know, if he
(30:51):
turns out he's married, he's got a couple of kids here.
That's that's all of those facts drive your decisions as
a good prosecutor, Jake, I got a run man, great call,
you got to call more often, simplest everybody.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I will all right, quick.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Break, coming right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
But we go to the phone. It's going to go
to Florence and Groveland, Florence next time. Nice. I appreciate
you calling in your take on this tragedy Florence.
Speaker 11 (31:23):
Hello Dan.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
Dan.
Speaker 11 (31:25):
First of all, I want to thank you for pursuing
this case, my pleasure, and I hope, like you said,
you will every month we'll discuss it.
Speaker 9 (31:40):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Absolutely, I give you my word on that. I give
you my word.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (31:46):
The other thing is, Dan, this guy, this bus driver,
did not follow any of the legal procedures that go
along with being a school about strive.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
He allowed, as you know, he allowed his certificate to
drive to lapse and was told by the company to
renew it, and he didn't renew it.
Speaker 11 (32:11):
And he was not to let the child out of
the bus on the opposite side of the street. And
there's supposed to be for the drivers, whether it's the
large school bus or the private van buses that take
(32:33):
children to win Front school, that he is to see
that there's an adult there, a parent or a grandparent
to walk with the child to the house, and I
am shocked that we're not hearing that he was arrested.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
He being.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
No charge, is fied no charge of style, so he's.
Speaker 11 (33:03):
Not being held accountable for all his wrongdoing at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And I don't want people to forget about it. Problem.
Speaker 11 (33:14):
Go get them, I promise you.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Thank you, Florence, and I so much appreciate you joining
the conversation tonight. As always, you will talk soon. I
don't talk to you. Have a have a Thanksgiving, have a.
Speaker 11 (33:26):
Good thanks I wanted to issue a good one too,
and have a lot of fun with those little grandchildren
around the turkey time.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Okay, they keep them away from the turkey. That's what
I got to Thanks Florence, talk to you soon. Have
a great night. All right. Let me get Will in
Long Island. Will. I'm gonna get you here. But we're
getting up on getting close to the to the to
the witching hour of eleven o'clock, all right.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
Ed, Will, I'm just I'm just extremely confused by this case, right,
I mean, not just the lack of criminal charges, because
to be honest with you, we know that you know
you're you're an attorney, you're a defense attorney. Actually, I'm
sure if you took the other angle and weren't as enraged,
you can find defense here somehow. You don't know why
his eyes weren't on the road. You don't know if
(34:14):
he was distracted by something.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I mean, well, you know, you know the case now.
I mean, I don't think there's much of a defense here.
You you you sideswipe another vehicle defense.
Speaker 5 (34:24):
Well, I'm not making a defense for him because if
he had reported that my dad was a bus driver,
by the way, if he had reported that accident that
he had had when he sideswiped them, they would he
would have been probably removed from the route that was
not even his route to begin with. And then there's
really not there's really a lot of conflicting information about
(34:44):
this case actually, and there's really no information about the driver,
really very little except here's what's I don't because because
I see the civil cases of slam dunk. It's easy.
I was an insurance guy for many years. This is
there there. They're just wondering how much they're paying.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It's absolutely deep deep pocket French company, no problem.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
Talk of these accidents in the past month, just you know,
in one in New York one in Texas one and
one of them was actually run over by his own boss.
Actually twelve year old.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Kid, that's what happened here. But this is a five
year old to get off the bus within a matter
of a few secs.
Speaker 5 (35:26):
I live in New York where this has happened many
times over the years. Typically, you know, it's hard to prove,
and you know the attorneys, the the das don't like
taking cases that aren't slam, don't convictions for them. Right,
it's homicide case, well, a vehicular homicide case, though you
do know requires some degree of negligence. Right now, we
know that he did things if you.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Read the Global, if you read the Global article, which
would be in the paper and it's online.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Now, right, they did say that he took his eyes
off the road, but we don't know why he took
his eyes off the road, right, like before you brought
up and I'm sure you weren't assuming this that he
was on his phone, but you brought that off, right,
say that.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I never mentioned his phone.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
You said, we get distracted by things, not him, per se.
What I'm saying is, when you're on a bus full
of fifty kids, there's certainly plenty of distractions going on.
There is protocol that he's supposed to wait for them.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I'm talking to as a lawyer, now, I'm not a
talk show host. When this is as slam dunk a
case as you can have of vehicular homicide with all
of the exigen circumstances, this is a classic. The question
is do they get him from manslaughter. Has his negligence
(36:36):
risen to the to the degree of.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
I've looked at some of these cases that have happened.
Most of them don't actually have charges brought, and the
ones that even do, most of these vehicular manslaughter charges
get tled down to actually be in misdemeanors, wind up
with no jail time, and wind up with slaps on
the wrist. This is what happens in a lot of
these cases because they're so hard to really prove. There
(37:00):
is protocol for what he's supposed to do. He's supposed
to count how many kids got off the bus. He's
supposed to see where they are, and he's supposed to
see where they go. And there's a lot of other
even going there. And I'm not even going there with that.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I'm not even going there with that. What I'm saying
to you is in Massachusetts, if you're driving an automobile
and there's a collegease.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Don't think I'm defending them.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So I know that, I know that. But but if
there's a collision with an automobile and the individual dies, okay,
unless that person has literally, you know, has run into
the automobile or has driven a bicycle or a remotorbike
into the side of the automobile. If the automn there's
(37:42):
a there's a there's a heavy responsibility. If you're operating
a vehicle and it's it's you know, two thousand pounds,
it could kill people. And I'm just telling you that
my experience, and you may be may have more experience
than I do. I don't think so. But my experience
is that the hiculoh homicie is the minimum charge. This
guy should have been charged with within days of the accident, right,
(38:06):
and then.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
They can understand that perspective. And but from being in
the industry, I've been in an insurance for many, many years,
most of the times these things don't lead to that
and the negligence needed to prove even in vehicular manslaughter, Okay,
most of the times those charges are brought because of
ouys at DUIs. Very rarely are they brought in just
accidents where you know that because you're talking about driving
(38:28):
them all. How many times have you seen someone hit
someone with He has been effect.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Driving a school bus without a license. This is a tent, but.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
You know the certification, the certification that he needs to have,
which he obviously had at one point right when they
hired him in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, I'm up at the eleven. I gotta let you
run a good call.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
Great, I'm not I'm not defending him. Please, he killed
the kid.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I'm suggesting you are. I'm not suggesting you are. Thank you,
good night. We're gonna stick with this. I got a
couple of lines six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty,
six one, seven, nine, three thirty the topic that we
were going to discuss. I'll explain on the other side
if we I want to stick with this, keep the
lines going.
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