September 3, 2025 • 39 mins
Does it feel like more people you know are struggling with a mental health condition? Maybe you’re struggling or the parent of a child who is struggling and not sure why or how to help. According to the CDC as well as the American Psychological Association, kid’s mental health is in crisis. What’s contributing to or causing rising mental health issues? Former New Hampshire Chief Justice John Broderick has now devoted his life to speaking to middle and high school kids about their mental health struggles. After speaking with thousands of kids across New England about the societal and cultural forces impacting their mental well-being, Judge Broderick along with Jeffrey Levin, a former middle school teacher, therapist and now life coach, joined us on NightSide to discuss what’s harming kids’ mental health and what can be done about it.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z
Boston's radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This afternoon, I spent a little more than nineteen minutes
and I watched a Ted Talk Dead Talk that was
given by one of my guests tonight, the former Chief
Justice of the New Hampshire State Supreme Court, John Broderick,
who I have known for many years. I was a
reporter while he served on the bench as the Chief
(00:29):
Justice and also an Associate Justice. I hope the term
in New Hampshire is the same as in Washington and
in Massachusetts. And it was an extraordinary Ted Talk. If
you have a chance, not now, but when this program
is over, or you know, when we're off the air
at midnight, check out this Ted Talk by former Chief
(00:53):
Justice New Hampshire Chief Justice John Broderick. It's amazing. You're
going to hear a lot of it during this hour,
and I think you're going to learn a lot, because
I've learned a lot today with us. Also is a
colleague and a friend of the Chief Justice. First of all,
Chief Justice, welcome, welcome your honor tonight's side.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
How are you, Danker, A real pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, you told me today that you're a regular listener,
and right away my appreciation and the respect for you grew.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
But I get it. But but listen to you for years,
both on the radio and obviously on WBG television. So anyway,
it's a pleasure to talk to you and an honor
to be on with you tonight.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, thank you. It's an honor to have you with us,
as Jeffrey Levin, who is a colleague of yours in
this journey, and it's literally a journey figuratively and literally,
we're going to get to that. Jeffrey Levin, you are
a former middle school teacher, you're a therapist and a
life coach, and I guess that you and the Chief
(01:56):
Justice see the problem and the unfortunately the consequences of
the problem from a very similar perspective.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah, no question, and thanks to you again, Dan, I
too have been listening for many, many years, and John's
become a very good friend of mine and we really
appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I'm going to start with the Chief Justice because
he presented a magnificent Ted talk. This is the Chief Justice.
How long ago was this Ted Talk? I know it
was in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was two years ago Dan at the Music Hall
in Portsmouth and I was one of ten ted dofers
that day. But I appreciate the opportunity to talk really
to parents. That's my audience of choice these days, and
I'm not figured that was a good way to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well. You have also traveled tens of thousands of miles
speaking to an incredible number of students I guess throughout
northern New England primarily, but one hundred and twenty thousand
kids at three hundred and fifty schools over the last
seven years. Those are astonishing figures.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well they are. Maybe people are smarter than I am
and they wouldn't do that, but it has been down
the most rewarding work of my entire professional life, and
I don't say that lightly. I went on the road
to talk to kids in middle schools and high schools
about mental health awareness because of my own family's journey,
(03:38):
thinking that I might be able to educate them that
it wasn't just them, that it was a health issue,
and it maybe reached parents to let them know that
they had some obligations too, and I didn't want them
to fail their own child as I failed my own son.
And so with the help of Dardine's health and have
(04:00):
dinner without them. They allowed me to do that, and
I invited myself nowhere. So it's really extraordinary. It's not
about me, but it is about the topic of mental health.
And so I've visited three hundred and fifteen, three hundred
and seventy schools. I broke one hundred and twenty thousand kids.
I throw how many as one hundred and twenty thousand miles,
(04:23):
but more importantly, thousands of kids. Several thousand kids confided
in this grandfather they've never met after my talk, and
they opened up about what was going on in their
world and their lives. And it's really inspired me and
(04:45):
pasted my efforts. And in the course of that, I
met Jeff Levin, who's on tonight. I think the world
of Jeffrey Loven and he said, oh, well, I sure
that I don't, but his experience and training and dudes
tend to mesh. And so he and I presented jointly
where we can do that. We talked frequently about what
(05:07):
we're seeing and what we're most amazed at then is
that much of what Jeff and I are seeing can
be fixed and It doesn't need intense medication or intense therapy,
but it does need parents to look up in a
way and see that the world is moving too fast.
(05:27):
The kids are too organized, the kids are too competitive,
we're all moving too fast, and a lot of those generations.
But as they are living on their phones.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Let me if I can give you an opportunity. There
was a moment in your life, a very ugly moment
in your life in which you were the victim. But
you don't blame your son for what happened. I just
want you. I know the Globe did to peace and
they emphasized really the embarrassment that your family had to
(06:04):
go through. You were, at that point a justice of
the Supreme Court of New Hampshire. I don't want to
dwell on it, but I'd like you just to tell
the story and how it really I think got you
out the gate on this journey. Without that incident, this
journey never would have occurred.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
No, that's very true, Dan, Yeah, very briefly, when I
was serving on the Supreme Court, my adult son, I
had two adult sons. One of them assaulted me one night.
He had been drinking and his hall was pretty serious
(06:44):
and I went to the hospital and my son, Huila
Dearly went to prison. My family show was all over
the nurse for quite a while and it was very humbling,
and I blame my self in large part too, because
I was ignorant then. I didn't know what I was
(07:05):
looking at. My wife and I thought my son had
a drinking problem, and he did, but it was really
self medicating a mental health problem. And we were told
basically we had an alcoholic and that's what we had
to deal with, and so we made choices. They were
well intentioned, but they were dead wrong, and it took
(07:25):
my family on a journey I would wish on another
living soul. The only good news stand out of all
that is all of us came out hole. I loved
my son to death. He's a really smart, capable, master's
educated god and he had had a drop of alcohol
in nineteen years And as a result of that, I
(07:47):
wanted to do something because I knew I had been
adorant about mental igals. I'm a baby boom and most
of us were ignurant. I'm not ignorant now, and I
was given an opportunity about nine years ago to get
involved in a mental health campaign that dour mit. Health
was really behind and there as a consequence of that,
I went on the road and I would never advertise
(08:11):
that I was doing well. Once you went to one school,
an invitation another school would follow, and so on and
so on and over those years, almost nine years, then
I spent a good chance of my time on the
road and talking to kids. And I've learned so much
from kids and this generation, Dan, I mean, I love
(08:35):
these kids. It's smarter than I was, the the leite,
judgmental generation of Americans and the history of the country.
But anxiety and stress and depression are epidemic among these kids.
And even though the kids have the problems, then the
kids are not the problem. This is trying to deal with.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, this is This is a very clear message that
I took from the Ted Talk today. What I want
to do. I got to take a break. You guys
both listen to my gentlemen, both listen to my show.
So we have some ads we got to do here
we get back. I'm going to invite individuals who would
like to either ask questions or confide in both of
(09:15):
you that their experience may be, if not as drastic,
but similar or whatever. This is an opportunity for people
who maybe look back and say, gee, he's talking about
some of the mistakes that were made in the raising
of their children. This might be a good learning experience
(09:37):
for everyone from the talk show host to the guests
to the audience. Quick break. If you are familiar with
what Judge Broderick, Justice Broderick, Chief Justice Broderick has done,
stay with us. If you're not, please stay with us
because it's been an extraordinary journey. And Jeffrey Levin, we
will get you more involved here. But I wanted to
(09:58):
set the stage. The stage is set. We'll be back
on Nightside with I think a very important hour of programming.
We're reaching a lot of people in a lot of
places around the country. Uh, this is serious stuff. We'll
be back on night Side. The numbers six one, seven,
two four, ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one,
ten thirty. I'm not going to give those numbers a
lot because I don't think I'll have to back on
(10:19):
Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
My guest that the former Chief Justice of the New
Hampshiter Supreme Court, John Broderick, and Jeffrey Leven, a therapist
and life coach. In this TED talk that I watched today,
Justice Broderick, you talked about parents failing their children, that
anxiety and depression are epidemic today, and that we as
(10:47):
parents are shortening childhoods in America. Pressure pressure, pressure in you.
You talked about uh, the uh. The kids don't experience failure,
their days are overscheduled, and you made just so many
points that I think all of us can identify with.
(11:08):
You're pleased to stop the high speed film of everyday life.
See the child in front of you, not the child
that you hope that child necessarily to be. I know
that's what you said. I want to get Jeffrey Leffn
to comment on the wisdom of your TED talk, just
to get us going here.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Jeffrey, Yes, Thanks, Dan and John and I met some
five to six seven years ago, and I've gone to
see John present to kids in gymnasium and before I
address the TED talk. John is one of the finest
human beings I know, and a great speaker and feels
this to his core as I do. And you can
(11:51):
hear a pin drop when he addresses a gymnasium or
an auditorium full of high school kids because and getting
to the Ted Talk, because because no one is talking
to the kids about the kids have outcome fever Dan.
They attach their self worth and their value to how
they look on the phone and in the real world,
(12:12):
and how they do in grades and in sports. And
the Ted Talk is John and I have talked endlessly,
But the Ted Talk is an extremely riveting explication of
parents having got on a bus. I don't think they
bought a ticket for I know parents. My wife and
(12:33):
I are. We didn't have kids, but I've been working
with kids and families my whole career. I'm in people's
homes and the clock never stops on weeknights. We're driving
our thirteen year old daughter to gymnastics on a Wednesday night.
We don't eat meals together, and the thing has become
(12:53):
quite frenetic. So I've watched John's Ted Talk several times,
but I've had the honor and pleasure of of talking
endlessly to John. And the reason I'm so honestly gleeful
that and I grew up in Newton, mass and I've
been listening to WBS since I was old enough to
turn on a radio and I know our voices are
(13:15):
reaching a lot of people, and we want to start.
We want to change the conversation.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Dan.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
We're not here to blame parents. They got on this bush.
We're keeping up with Jones's. But I've I've I've been
talking to kids my whole career, and I wanted to,
I wanted to. I'll end with this little quote, uh
the and this wasn't attributed. This is from my new
(13:42):
friend Dan Chad Shept. It wasn't attributed to anybody. The
laughter of children is the song of the healthy society.
When it disappears, listen carefully, something is breaking. And I
think kids are are laughing a lot and playing a
lot till they get a phone. And it's consequent with
(14:05):
that time at ten or eleven or twelve or thirteen
where it's all about sports and achievement and pressure, pressure, pressure,
and we need to we need to let kids play.
And so again, Super please love to hear from any
people out there that want to be part of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Sounds great, Justice Broderick, it had to be extraordinarily difficult
and almost humiliating to as the chief Justice in the
State of New Hampshire to visit your son in prison,
as you did. I don't want to dwell on that,
(14:45):
but I want to give you the opportunity. We only
got a couple of minutes left here before the break
at the bottom of the hour to encapsulate your message
to parents tonight. Who is saying? Why is your message
so important not only to their children but to themselves?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
What's happened? Then again, no one's intended it. We're all
too preoccupied with tomorrow. Everyone's moving too fast, everyone's too
focused on the wrong things. I mean, my masters to
parents is what is the rush? Childhood has a purpose,
(15:32):
and we all remember childs and if you're a baby boy,
we have fond memories of being a kid. They weren't
all easy memories, but in hindsight they taught us a lot.
When I gave my Ted talk that night in Portsmouth,
I said, I remember the inefficient use of time as
instrumental to who I became. And I had to fail.
(15:54):
I had small successes. I learned from my friends. I
learned from my friends his parents. I'm a middle class kid.
I had dinners every night with my family, and life
just had a different rhythm, and I felt the sense
of security. And my parents obviously were interested in my
(16:15):
school works, but they weren't like we're managing it. They
post grades there. Now most schools in Massachusetts and otherwise
every day online teachers are putting grades up every day.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
What is that you.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Tiget to seventy two and the homeworkers on it? Do
you need to know that tonight? That's what I'm talking about.
Our focuses in the one place we prefery deefly Jeap
and I spoke one night to three students at a
very first jugious college, and this time woman who was
a pre med major at junior said the following in
(16:52):
response to no question. He said, every girl of this
campus PA has an exercise addiction or food addiction. And
that wasn't my college experience. These kids are so stressed
to achieve, achieve, achieved, As Jeff we were saying, they'll
(17:14):
do fine. Just let them breathe and don't overorganize them.
Let's bombinanity. Return to childhood, stop overorganizing it. Running around
the England every weekend for travel games. Most of those
kids that play sports that they want sports are really
important for growth, but they're not how to play pro
(17:35):
sports and Only two percent of those kids running around
these travel teams are ever going to get a college
scholarship associated with this sport, So what are we doing it?
That's my message to parents. Enjoy your children and their
childhood and don't stress about it. Don't try to make
them achieve. They'll get there with your support, but now
(17:58):
with your management. That's where we're going off the trash,
I think.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Can you, and again very briefly, because I got to
get to a quick newscast, here, was there a moment
in time, as you reflect back, not necessarily in your life,
but in the life of this society where it all changed.
Where not when we were growing up, you know, there
(18:24):
was some pressure you wanted to go to college. We've
found out subsequently that college is not for everyone. That's
a part of what we've learned that voke D and
technical schools are critical and understaffed, undershorted, underappreciated. But was
there a moment in time where all of a sudden
(18:46):
we went from a regular, you know, sixty beat a
minute heartbeat society to one hundred and eighty beats permitted
hot beat society where the kid has to be on
three different travel teams for the entire year. And if
you miss your hockey camp in summer and your baseball
(19:07):
camp in the winter, in the middle of winter, you're
going to fall behind. If you don't have the tutors
for you know, all those important subjects, you're not going
to get into your first choice college. Or was this
just something that was an evolutionary process? And I'd like
to get a quick comment from both of you on that.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Can I can I jump in, John? Oh, yeah, sure,
I think it's I think it's been the ladder, Dan.
I think it's been a process. When I when I
reflect back to Columbine, believe it or not, that's twenty
six years ago. Then the economy, uh, then nine to
eleven Dan, and then the economy crash. You know, wait,
we call it the overwhelming tragedy list. There's just too
(19:48):
much bad news and people are overwrought. And then phones
come in about fifteen or eighteen years ago. So I
think it's been a gradual evolution. But it's it's it's
clear as day. It's just clear.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, let me let me get justice product. Do you
agree with its evolutionary or was there a moment in
time Obviously families mature at different level at different times.
But I know that as a parent, I felt a
lot of pressure for my kids to be successful, and
(20:20):
that then became you know, a lot of sports. Uh,
probably less family time as you you know. So I
fell into that trap too. I will admit to it.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, I think, I think, yeah, it's easy to fall
into the trap. And I think today a lot of
parents think good parenting is running, running, running, comparing, comparing, comparing.
So when I was in high school, give me an idea.
My home was a middle pass household. I didn't make
the I didn't make the National Honest with my best
(20:54):
friend from high school and I still laugh about it.
But anyway, we didn't make it. We came close, and
I can home and said to my mother, no, I
didn't make the National Honesty side, and my mother gave
me a smile. She said, you'll be fine. That's the
world I'm from, and I have been fine.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I didn't define my life by my GPA. My extra
courfnctivity is my resume. I defined my life by personal
growth and that didn't always come with structure. And that's
what we're doing. And I think parents are too busy
and I understand it now. The technology is going to
help us. So now we're busy twenty four hours a day.
(21:37):
My kids need to be busy because we're busy, and
we've overorganized them. I really believe it's no no more
complex and dress point about phones. Kids are spending day
and according to National Service, four to nine hours a
day looking at a screen, and that's nine hours are
not looking up. And my life has taught me that
(22:01):
social emotional growth, which really is what's most important on
all this comes eyeball. Eyeball naturally comes Trump, and there's
our shortcut. And so everyone thanks. Fallowings are wonderful and
they can be, but there should be a supplement to
your life, not a substitute for your life. And that's
(22:22):
what's happening in childhood.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
All right, we will take a break, uh if you'd
like to join the conversation six one seven four ten
thirty six one seven ninety. I will tell you this
that I think all of us, if we think about
our lives, we can only agree with my two guests.
(22:47):
The question is what are we going to do about it?
We're coming back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Working with the former Chief Justice of the State Supreme
Court in New Hampshire, John Broderick and an associate Jeffrey Levin,
who was a teacher in middle school, teachers, a therapist,
and life coach. Now like to ask both of you,
do you think that kids today both of you remember
your childhood as being substantially different, less stressful than what
(23:21):
kids are dealing with till today, both of you have
been successful in your lives after having enjoyed a childhood
that again had some moments of play, some inefficiency of time.
I think it's a phrase that I've heard Justice Broderick. Use,
(23:42):
do you think kids today, students today who you have
spoken to, Justice Broderick, do you think they understand your message?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I hate to understand that something's not right. I do
think that. I think these kids are so bright and touted,
but they do not have the ladder to have the
time to figure out who they are what they want
to do. So many of these kids down are chasing
rabbits of a catcher, living dreams and aren't their own.
(24:17):
I mean I see it everywhere. Ago go buy, for example,
go buy a playground in the summertime or a school
yard after school, there's any kids there anymore. Nobody does
that after a storm in my neighborhood. I never have
anybody come to my door and say, you want me
to shovel your walked. I made a pretty good living
(24:37):
in the winter as you kids, they walks and driveways.
I love snowstorms.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And he got some pretty good exercise too.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I did, and then I went bullying with my friends.
My life was not organized and structured. I played sports
as a kid did. I'm not on the Red Sox
as you know, but I was a pretty good little
league picture. I had an overprotective mother. I loved her.
She never came to a single little again, and I
never thought, why isn't my mother here? And my mother
(25:07):
would say, when I can on beak, you have fun.
My mother wouldn't have known it between a double and triple,
but she wanted me to have a childhood that was happy. Now,
as you know, it's sporting events. Parents are screaming at
the umpire something's wrong, and I think what we need
to do simply say that I defer to Jeff, who's
(25:29):
been doing this for years. We need to trust our
children and We need to take some of the stress
away from them and give them some free time and
some spare time and not organize every hour of their day.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Jeff, I want you to comment on what the judge,
what Judge Broderick you know, has said, you know the
stress that these kids feel. Do you think I've seen
the question asked on by Justice Broderick and students have
(26:05):
actually stood up in classrooms and said that they either
were stressed or they knew someone who was stressed. What
has been your experience, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Levin, Yeah, there's no question about it. Last fall, a
year ago, I was working with a D one Boston
Area college women's soccer team, and you ask, do the
kids understand it when you say to kids, you guys
have outcome fever? They look up, what's outcome fever? Miss eleven? Well,
that's when you cause your self esteem to depend on
(26:39):
how you look and how you do. They completely get
it when that term, which my wife came up with
one day, is used because it crystallizes their experience. And
this soccer team one day said Jeff, can we just
play a game? These young women are eighteen to twenty two,
And I said, I'm not huge on games. I said, Dan,
(27:00):
why don't we play Duck Duck goose? And they played
Duck Duck Goose for forty seven minutes. Because I looked
at my watch, I thought, certainly, college girls don't want
to play duck duck goose at all. But their childhood
effectively ends from the perspective of play and imagination. It
effectively ends when they get a phone. And then there's
(27:21):
the new parenting playbook bus that we seem to have
gotten on, and it's it's parenting is a scary job.
You have to let your kids go at age appropriate levels.
And we hear the stories of you know, law school
graduates bringing their parents to their first interview, and it's
becoming less and less uncommon, and it's scary to it's
(27:44):
kind of scary to let go. But you have to
let go, to let the kid, to let the kid
fall and dust him or herself off and find his
or her own voice. You have to do it, and
it's getting harder and harder.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I know
a lot of people have talked about is the idea
that everybody gets metals and everybody gets trophies, So you know,
there's everybody is. You know, there's a whole bunch of
things that have come into our society for good purpose
and good reason that may have reinforced some of the
(28:17):
things that you, both, gentlemen, both feel are are so destructive.
We're going to take a break. We're going to go
to phone calls. Right after the break six one seven
thirty six one seven ninety. I want to know if
you agree or disagree, and particularly if your parents, if
you'd like to fess up and say, hey, maybe we
(28:37):
could have maybe we could have allowed for some more playtime,
for less stress. I think that again, I'm guilty. I'm guilty.
I wish that I could do some things over. I
think all of us, if we're honest, if we have children,
we probably have been again we've tried to give them
(29:02):
things maybe that we didn't have as kids. I don't know.
There's probably a bunch of sociological factors in my first
phone call coming up as someone who's sociologist. So will
we'll piro it to that part of the story right
after this here on nightside. Feel free to light the
lines up. I'm willing to go a little bit longer.
(29:22):
I don't know if these gentlemen want to move into
the next hour as well, But I think this is
such a critically important topic. I'm really not I'm not
particularly interested in any other topic than this right now
because I think when having watched Judge this Broaderick's Ted
(29:42):
Talk today, it was nineteen minutes of powerful presentation and
self reflection. Back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You're on Nightstide with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Gentlemen, we have lots of calls. We're going to start
with Robin, who's calling from the state of Maryland. Robin,
welcome to Nightside. You were on with John Broderick, FULMA,
chief Justice of the Hampshire Supreme Court, and therapist, life
coach and Fuller Middle school teacher Jeffrey Levin. Go ahead, Robin, Hi, I.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
Was a counselor in a high school for forty years,
and as I heard you discussing this important topic, there
was one thing that kids used to come and tell
me all the time, and that was that their parents
never listened. And so I think that's an important piece
(30:36):
to start with.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, So the parents didn't listen about what their problems
or their schooling and what did they not listen about.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Jilly didn't want to talk to them. They weren't interested
in listening to what.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
They were doing in school, how they felt, and so
they were constantly coming to talk to me about what
your parents who are not doing at home.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Okay, let me.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Get Justice Broderick to comment on that. He's talked to
about one hundred and twenty thousand young people who appeared
before one hundred and twenty thousand young people in the
last seven years. Justice Broderick, you're with Robin from Maryland
had to say your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I did. First of all, she had a very hard job,
and so bless her for doing that. For all those years.
Of what I've heard from kids all over New England
is they were almost afraid to tell their parents about
their stress or anxiety or the depression because they self stigmatized.
(31:43):
I'll give you one example. I spoke one day after
my talk to a football player senior in high school.
Was a big guy, and he waited to talk to me. Now,
he's never met me, and when he came over to me,
he was crying, this big football guy. And I said,
and he said, I think I have pretty bad anxiety
and I may have depression, and I said, well, it's
(32:06):
not your fault. You know, that's a health issue. Have
you talked to you parents? He said, oh, I could
never tell my parents. And said, what if you injured,
you kne and you couldn't play in the game. I said,
would you tell them that? Oh, of course I tell
them that. I said, they're both health problems, and so
you need to see a counselor. That's what you need
to do. And so I direc couldn't do that. I
(32:29):
couldn't require it. And I was leaving the school that
day about an hour later and it's coming out of
the counseling office. He said, hey, judge, I made an
appointment and said, you're just as far as I thought
you were. Kids today Dan will talk to other kids.
Kids today will talk to Jeff Levin. I mean, I've
been at rooms with him. It's really impressive how kids
(32:51):
open to him, and they will do that. They want
to talk about it, but they don't want to tell
their parents, often because it's not something that's associated with success.
And there are a lot of bright students who are
doing it very well, as true, but who have anxiety
or depression, and we don't want to hear that, because
(33:11):
that might mean you're not going to beach.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Dan, can I jump in real quick? As a clinician
for twenty five years and a life coach, you know,
I was trained as a clinical social worker. The kids
have no other words. It's anxiety, it's depression, a lot
of it is outcome fever. And the devil's bargain that
we've made in families is we focus so much on achievement.
(33:35):
Justice Broderick mentioned the grades are posted every day. I mean,
I think Dan, Judge Broderick and Jeff if we got
a sixty five on a math desk, we you know,
stuck it in our backpack and studied harder if we
wanted to get a decent grade. These kids don't have
that opportunity. So when you when you feel like you're failing,
kids tell me constantly, I'm terrified to disappoint my parents.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I hear it.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I've worked a little bit two hundred athletic teams. I
was working with one tonight, so it's kind of a
devil's bargain that all.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Right, all right, Robin, thank you for the call. I
want to get one more in here before we have
to end the eleven o'clock hour. I'm going to see
both of you will stick with us a little bit
into the eleven o'clock hour. I don't know what your
midtimes are, but if possible, that would be great. Robin,
thank you for the call. Let me go to Jack
in Newton. Jack, you are a sociologist, if I recall correct.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Yeah, Jack Porter, I'm a sociologist. It's a great topic.
I remember thirty forty years ago in Luton the Highland's
Mario Bocabella restaurant tour, and I have to kind of
step in when kids were just hanging around, you know,
just talking smoking or whatever. I mean cigarettes. But the
(34:49):
business people and the police saw them as a threat.
So we talked to everybody and we said, hey, they
just made a place to hang out, and we know
where they are. They're not hiding out on the baseman
somewhere watching well back then on television and so so
that's one thing that we have to change the perception.
The second is a lot of people come up to
(35:11):
me and say, oh, how can I get into Harvard?
How can I get into college? And so you've got
to you're putting too much pressure on your kids, you know,
got to you know, relax. You know, not everyone's going
to get into Harvard or Yale. There's only one hundred
other great schools, so stop worrying. You know, maybe those
great schools aren't really the ones for you anyway, would
(35:33):
be much happier at a at a different kind of school,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So we have So what you have heard Justice Broderick
and and Jeff Levin talk about is you're right on
board with this, Jack, correct, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Why do you think, Jack, in your opinion, more people
don't follow that? Again, you call it sort of a
more lays fair lifestyle for a child to to to live.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
What I think? Yeah, I think that the parents are
very insecure they live offer their children are the you know,
I think that's one of the major problems. They're just
they're they're just over determining and over managing them because
they're kind of insecure, just letting them be and also
(36:28):
this pressure to achieve. You know, the only one they
can talk to are people like me, are and others.
They can't even talk to their own parents. All right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Let me let me get a quick comment. And I
got to be a quick comic because we only got
a couple of minutes left in the break to what
Jack had to say, Jeff, why don't you go first?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And then Jack is right? Then, But I think I
call it the overwhelming tragedy list, Callumbine nine to eleven,
crack economy, the random violence, phone of political absurdity. Is
just too much going on, and I often wonder why
have parents overmanaged what's going on. I think they're unconsciously afraid.
(37:11):
I think the world certainly feels like a more scary place,
and the human instinct is to overprotect your kids, and
that I think I would have done the same thing
had Miranda and I had kids.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Okay, that's what I think. Comment if you would, and
what Jack had to say, and if it's okay, I'd
love to hold both of you into the next hour
because we have other phone calls.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Sure, I'd love to do very quickly. I agree with
what you were saying about the way, and I would
say I just for the people listen to ask themselves
this question. Has anyone asked you after your first job,
how you did in high school, what courses you took,
(37:51):
what your GPA was. I went to law school. No
one's ever asked me, how did you do in law
school or nobody, but they if you judge you on
who you are, what skills you have with people, and
then solving problems, and some of those skills then happen
without guidance. It's called living life as a child, and
(38:13):
you need to have some of those experiences to learn
from life. It's a great teacher, and I agree with
Jeff Love and parents are frightened that the kids won't
make it in the global economy. So they're going to
help them, and they're going to decide for them, and
they're going to manage their academics, micromanage them. It's causing
kids enormous stress. And these kids are not finding time
(38:37):
to figure out who they are, what they really want
to do in life. I see it everywhere and go all.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, gentlemen, we got to take a pause here, and
no one can interrupt the eleven o'clock news. You get
about three, four or five minutes where you can get
up and stretch your legs, get a glass of water.
Jackie Newton is always Thank you very much, jack appreciate
your time, Appreciate your call. For those of you on
the line, stay there. If you're not six months, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty
(39:03):
And I'm wondering if any parents tonight want to join
the conversation and fess up to maybe maybe some behavior
that has been described in the last hour. I have
already fessed up. Maybe there's others out there who might
have the courage to join me back on nightside right
after this
He's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z
Boston's radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
This afternoon, I spent a little more than nineteen minutes
and I watched a Ted Talk Dead Talk that was
given by one of my guests tonight, the former Chief
Justice of the New Hampshire State Supreme Court, John Broderick,
who I have known for many years. I was a
reporter while he served on the bench as the Chief
(00:29):
Justice and also an Associate Justice. I hope the term
in New Hampshire is the same as in Washington and
in Massachusetts. And it was an extraordinary Ted Talk. If
you have a chance, not now, but when this program
is over, or you know, when we're off the air
at midnight, check out this Ted Talk by former Chief
(00:53):
Justice New Hampshire Chief Justice John Broderick. It's amazing. You're
going to hear a lot of it during this hour,
and I think you're going to learn a lot, because
I've learned a lot today with us. Also is a
colleague and a friend of the Chief Justice. First of all,
Chief Justice, welcome, welcome your honor tonight's side.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
How are you, Danker, A real pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, you told me today that you're a regular listener,
and right away my appreciation and the respect for you grew.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
But I get it. But but listen to you for years,
both on the radio and obviously on WBG television. So anyway,
it's a pleasure to talk to you and an honor
to be on with you tonight.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, thank you. It's an honor to have you with us,
as Jeffrey Levin, who is a colleague of yours in
this journey, and it's literally a journey figuratively and literally,
we're going to get to that. Jeffrey Levin, you are
a former middle school teacher, you're a therapist and a
life coach, and I guess that you and the Chief
(01:56):
Justice see the problem and the unfortunately the consequences of
the problem from a very similar perspective.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yeah, no question, and thanks to you again, Dan, I
too have been listening for many, many years, and John's
become a very good friend of mine and we really
appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I'm going to start with the Chief Justice because
he presented a magnificent Ted talk. This is the Chief Justice.
How long ago was this Ted Talk? I know it
was in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was two years ago Dan at the Music Hall
in Portsmouth and I was one of ten ted dofers
that day. But I appreciate the opportunity to talk really
to parents. That's my audience of choice these days, and
I'm not figured that was a good way to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well. You have also traveled tens of thousands of miles
speaking to an incredible number of students I guess throughout
northern New England primarily, but one hundred and twenty thousand
kids at three hundred and fifty schools over the last
seven years. Those are astonishing figures.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well they are. Maybe people are smarter than I am
and they wouldn't do that, but it has been down
the most rewarding work of my entire professional life, and
I don't say that lightly. I went on the road
to talk to kids in middle schools and high schools
about mental health awareness because of my own family's journey,
(03:38):
thinking that I might be able to educate them that
it wasn't just them, that it was a health issue,
and it maybe reached parents to let them know that
they had some obligations too, and I didn't want them
to fail their own child as I failed my own son.
And so with the help of Dardine's health and have
(04:00):
dinner without them. They allowed me to do that, and
I invited myself nowhere. So it's really extraordinary. It's not
about me, but it is about the topic of mental health.
And so I've visited three hundred and fifteen, three hundred
and seventy schools. I broke one hundred and twenty thousand kids.
I throw how many as one hundred and twenty thousand miles,
(04:23):
but more importantly, thousands of kids. Several thousand kids confided
in this grandfather they've never met after my talk, and
they opened up about what was going on in their
world and their lives. And it's really inspired me and
(04:45):
pasted my efforts. And in the course of that, I
met Jeff Levin, who's on tonight. I think the world
of Jeffrey Loven and he said, oh, well, I sure
that I don't, but his experience and training and dudes
tend to mesh. And so he and I presented jointly
where we can do that. We talked frequently about what
(05:07):
we're seeing and what we're most amazed at then is
that much of what Jeff and I are seeing can
be fixed and It doesn't need intense medication or intense therapy,
but it does need parents to look up in a
way and see that the world is moving too fast.
(05:27):
The kids are too organized, the kids are too competitive,
we're all moving too fast, and a lot of those generations.
But as they are living on their phones.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Let me if I can give you an opportunity. There
was a moment in your life, a very ugly moment
in your life in which you were the victim. But
you don't blame your son for what happened. I just
want you. I know the Globe did to peace and
they emphasized really the embarrassment that your family had to
(06:04):
go through. You were, at that point a justice of
the Supreme Court of New Hampshire. I don't want to
dwell on it, but I'd like you just to tell
the story and how it really I think got you
out the gate on this journey. Without that incident, this
journey never would have occurred.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
No, that's very true, Dan, Yeah, very briefly, when I
was serving on the Supreme Court, my adult son, I
had two adult sons. One of them assaulted me one night.
He had been drinking and his hall was pretty serious
(06:44):
and I went to the hospital and my son, Huila
Dearly went to prison. My family show was all over
the nurse for quite a while and it was very humbling,
and I blame my self in large part too, because
I was ignorant then. I didn't know what I was
(07:05):
looking at. My wife and I thought my son had
a drinking problem, and he did, but it was really
self medicating a mental health problem. And we were told
basically we had an alcoholic and that's what we had
to deal with, and so we made choices. They were
well intentioned, but they were dead wrong, and it took
(07:25):
my family on a journey I would wish on another
living soul. The only good news stand out of all
that is all of us came out hole. I loved
my son to death. He's a really smart, capable, master's
educated god and he had had a drop of alcohol
in nineteen years And as a result of that, I
(07:47):
wanted to do something because I knew I had been
adorant about mental igals. I'm a baby boom and most
of us were ignurant. I'm not ignorant now, and I
was given an opportunity about nine years ago to get
involved in a mental health campaign that dour mit. Health
was really behind and there as a consequence of that,
I went on the road and I would never advertise
(08:11):
that I was doing well. Once you went to one school,
an invitation another school would follow, and so on and
so on and over those years, almost nine years, then
I spent a good chance of my time on the
road and talking to kids. And I've learned so much
from kids and this generation, Dan, I mean, I love
(08:35):
these kids. It's smarter than I was, the the leite,
judgmental generation of Americans and the history of the country.
But anxiety and stress and depression are epidemic among these kids.
And even though the kids have the problems, then the
kids are not the problem. This is trying to deal with.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, this is This is a very clear message that
I took from the Ted Talk today. What I want
to do. I got to take a break. You guys
both listen to my gentlemen, both listen to my show.
So we have some ads we got to do here
we get back. I'm going to invite individuals who would
like to either ask questions or confide in both of
(09:15):
you that their experience may be, if not as drastic,
but similar or whatever. This is an opportunity for people
who maybe look back and say, gee, he's talking about
some of the mistakes that were made in the raising
of their children. This might be a good learning experience
(09:37):
for everyone from the talk show host to the guests
to the audience. Quick break. If you are familiar with
what Judge Broderick, Justice Broderick, Chief Justice Broderick has done,
stay with us. If you're not, please stay with us
because it's been an extraordinary journey. And Jeffrey Levin, we
will get you more involved here. But I wanted to
(09:58):
set the stage. The stage is set. We'll be back
on Nightside with I think a very important hour of programming.
We're reaching a lot of people in a lot of
places around the country. Uh, this is serious stuff. We'll
be back on night Side. The numbers six one, seven,
two four, ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one,
ten thirty. I'm not going to give those numbers a
lot because I don't think I'll have to back on
(10:19):
Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
My guest that the former Chief Justice of the New
Hampshiter Supreme Court, John Broderick, and Jeffrey Leven, a therapist
and life coach. In this TED talk that I watched today,
Justice Broderick, you talked about parents failing their children, that
anxiety and depression are epidemic today, and that we as
(10:47):
parents are shortening childhoods in America. Pressure pressure, pressure in you.
You talked about uh, the uh. The kids don't experience failure,
their days are overscheduled, and you made just so many
points that I think all of us can identify with.
(11:08):
You're pleased to stop the high speed film of everyday life.
See the child in front of you, not the child
that you hope that child necessarily to be. I know
that's what you said. I want to get Jeffrey Leffn
to comment on the wisdom of your TED talk, just
to get us going here.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Jeffrey, Yes, Thanks, Dan and John and I met some
five to six seven years ago, and I've gone to
see John present to kids in gymnasium and before I
address the TED talk. John is one of the finest
human beings I know, and a great speaker and feels
this to his core as I do. And you can
(11:51):
hear a pin drop when he addresses a gymnasium or
an auditorium full of high school kids because and getting
to the Ted Talk, because because no one is talking
to the kids about the kids have outcome fever Dan.
They attach their self worth and their value to how
they look on the phone and in the real world,
(12:12):
and how they do in grades and in sports. And
the Ted Talk is John and I have talked endlessly,
But the Ted Talk is an extremely riveting explication of
parents having got on a bus. I don't think they
bought a ticket for I know parents. My wife and
(12:33):
I are. We didn't have kids, but I've been working
with kids and families my whole career. I'm in people's
homes and the clock never stops on weeknights. We're driving
our thirteen year old daughter to gymnastics on a Wednesday night.
We don't eat meals together, and the thing has become
(12:53):
quite frenetic. So I've watched John's Ted Talk several times,
but I've had the honor and pleasure of of talking
endlessly to John. And the reason I'm so honestly gleeful
that and I grew up in Newton, mass and I've
been listening to WBS since I was old enough to
turn on a radio and I know our voices are
(13:15):
reaching a lot of people, and we want to start.
We want to change the conversation.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
Dan.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
We're not here to blame parents. They got on this bush.
We're keeping up with Jones's. But I've I've I've been
talking to kids my whole career, and I wanted to,
I wanted to. I'll end with this little quote, uh
the and this wasn't attributed. This is from my new
(13:42):
friend Dan Chad Shept. It wasn't attributed to anybody. The
laughter of children is the song of the healthy society.
When it disappears, listen carefully, something is breaking. And I
think kids are are laughing a lot and playing a
lot till they get a phone. And it's consequent with
(14:05):
that time at ten or eleven or twelve or thirteen
where it's all about sports and achievement and pressure, pressure, pressure,
and we need to we need to let kids play.
And so again, Super please love to hear from any
people out there that want to be part of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Sounds great, Justice Broderick, it had to be extraordinarily difficult
and almost humiliating to as the chief Justice in the
State of New Hampshire to visit your son in prison,
as you did. I don't want to dwell on that,
(14:45):
but I want to give you the opportunity. We only
got a couple of minutes left here before the break
at the bottom of the hour to encapsulate your message
to parents tonight. Who is saying? Why is your message
so important not only to their children but to themselves?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
What's happened? Then again, no one's intended it. We're all
too preoccupied with tomorrow. Everyone's moving too fast, everyone's too
focused on the wrong things. I mean, my masters to
parents is what is the rush? Childhood has a purpose,
(15:32):
and we all remember childs and if you're a baby boy,
we have fond memories of being a kid. They weren't
all easy memories, but in hindsight they taught us a lot.
When I gave my Ted talk that night in Portsmouth,
I said, I remember the inefficient use of time as
instrumental to who I became. And I had to fail.
(15:54):
I had small successes. I learned from my friends. I
learned from my friends his parents. I'm a middle class kid.
I had dinners every night with my family, and life
just had a different rhythm, and I felt the sense
of security. And my parents obviously were interested in my
(16:15):
school works, but they weren't like we're managing it. They
post grades there. Now most schools in Massachusetts and otherwise
every day online teachers are putting grades up every day.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
What is that you.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Tiget to seventy two and the homeworkers on it? Do
you need to know that tonight? That's what I'm talking about.
Our focuses in the one place we prefery deefly Jeap
and I spoke one night to three students at a
very first jugious college, and this time woman who was
a pre med major at junior said the following in
(16:52):
response to no question. He said, every girl of this
campus PA has an exercise addiction or food addiction. And
that wasn't my college experience. These kids are so stressed
to achieve, achieve, achieved, As Jeff we were saying, they'll
(17:14):
do fine. Just let them breathe and don't overorganize them.
Let's bombinanity. Return to childhood, stop overorganizing it. Running around
the England every weekend for travel games. Most of those
kids that play sports that they want sports are really
important for growth, but they're not how to play pro
(17:35):
sports and Only two percent of those kids running around
these travel teams are ever going to get a college
scholarship associated with this sport, So what are we doing it?
That's my message to parents. Enjoy your children and their
childhood and don't stress about it. Don't try to make
them achieve. They'll get there with your support, but now
(17:58):
with your management. That's where we're going off the trash,
I think.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Can you, and again very briefly, because I got to
get to a quick newscast, here, was there a moment
in time, as you reflect back, not necessarily in your life,
but in the life of this society where it all changed.
Where not when we were growing up, you know, there
(18:24):
was some pressure you wanted to go to college. We've
found out subsequently that college is not for everyone. That's
a part of what we've learned that voke D and
technical schools are critical and understaffed, undershorted, underappreciated. But was
there a moment in time where all of a sudden
(18:46):
we went from a regular, you know, sixty beat a
minute heartbeat society to one hundred and eighty beats permitted
hot beat society where the kid has to be on
three different travel teams for the entire year. And if
you miss your hockey camp in summer and your baseball
(19:07):
camp in the winter, in the middle of winter, you're
going to fall behind. If you don't have the tutors
for you know, all those important subjects, you're not going
to get into your first choice college. Or was this
just something that was an evolutionary process? And I'd like
to get a quick comment from both of you on that.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Can I can I jump in, John? Oh, yeah, sure,
I think it's I think it's been the ladder, Dan.
I think it's been a process. When I when I
reflect back to Columbine, believe it or not, that's twenty
six years ago. Then the economy, uh, then nine to
eleven Dan, and then the economy crash. You know, wait,
we call it the overwhelming tragedy list. There's just too
(19:48):
much bad news and people are overwrought. And then phones
come in about fifteen or eighteen years ago. So I
think it's been a gradual evolution. But it's it's it's
clear as day. It's just clear.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Okay, let me let me get justice product. Do you
agree with its evolutionary or was there a moment in
time Obviously families mature at different level at different times.
But I know that as a parent, I felt a
lot of pressure for my kids to be successful, and
(20:20):
that then became you know, a lot of sports. Uh,
probably less family time as you you know. So I
fell into that trap too. I will admit to it.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well, I think, I think, yeah, it's easy to fall
into the trap. And I think today a lot of
parents think good parenting is running, running, running, comparing, comparing, comparing.
So when I was in high school, give me an idea.
My home was a middle pass household. I didn't make
the I didn't make the National Honest with my best
(20:54):
friend from high school and I still laugh about it.
But anyway, we didn't make it. We came close, and
I can home and said to my mother, no, I
didn't make the National Honesty side, and my mother gave
me a smile. She said, you'll be fine. That's the
world I'm from, and I have been fine.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
By the way.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I didn't define my life by my GPA. My extra
courfnctivity is my resume. I defined my life by personal
growth and that didn't always come with structure. And that's
what we're doing. And I think parents are too busy
and I understand it now. The technology is going to
help us. So now we're busy twenty four hours a day.
(21:37):
My kids need to be busy because we're busy, and
we've overorganized them. I really believe it's no no more
complex and dress point about phones. Kids are spending day
and according to National Service, four to nine hours a
day looking at a screen, and that's nine hours are
not looking up. And my life has taught me that
(22:01):
social emotional growth, which really is what's most important on
all this comes eyeball. Eyeball naturally comes Trump, and there's
our shortcut. And so everyone thanks. Fallowings are wonderful and
they can be, but there should be a supplement to
your life, not a substitute for your life. And that's
(22:22):
what's happening in childhood.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
All right, we will take a break, uh if you'd
like to join the conversation six one seven four ten
thirty six one seven ninety. I will tell you this
that I think all of us, if we think about
our lives, we can only agree with my two guests.
(22:47):
The question is what are we going to do about it?
We're coming back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Working with the former Chief Justice of the State Supreme
Court in New Hampshire, John Broderick and an associate Jeffrey Levin,
who was a teacher in middle school, teachers, a therapist,
and life coach. Now like to ask both of you,
do you think that kids today both of you remember
your childhood as being substantially different, less stressful than what
(23:21):
kids are dealing with till today, both of you have
been successful in your lives after having enjoyed a childhood
that again had some moments of play, some inefficiency of time.
I think it's a phrase that I've heard Justice Broderick. Use,
(23:42):
do you think kids today, students today who you have
spoken to, Justice Broderick, do you think they understand your message?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
I hate to understand that something's not right. I do
think that. I think these kids are so bright and touted,
but they do not have the ladder to have the
time to figure out who they are what they want
to do. So many of these kids down are chasing
rabbits of a catcher, living dreams and aren't their own.
(24:17):
I mean I see it everywhere. Ago go buy, for example,
go buy a playground in the summertime or a school
yard after school, there's any kids there anymore. Nobody does
that after a storm in my neighborhood. I never have
anybody come to my door and say, you want me
to shovel your walked. I made a pretty good living
(24:37):
in the winter as you kids, they walks and driveways.
I love snowstorms.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And he got some pretty good exercise too.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Well.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I did, and then I went bullying with my friends.
My life was not organized and structured. I played sports
as a kid did. I'm not on the Red Sox
as you know, but I was a pretty good little
league picture. I had an overprotective mother. I loved her.
She never came to a single little again, and I
never thought, why isn't my mother here? And my mother
(25:07):
would say, when I can on beak, you have fun.
My mother wouldn't have known it between a double and triple,
but she wanted me to have a childhood that was happy. Now,
as you know, it's sporting events. Parents are screaming at
the umpire something's wrong, and I think what we need
to do simply say that I defer to Jeff, who's
(25:29):
been doing this for years. We need to trust our
children and We need to take some of the stress
away from them and give them some free time and
some spare time and not organize every hour of their day.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Jeff, I want you to comment on what the judge,
what Judge Broderick you know, has said, you know the
stress that these kids feel. Do you think I've seen
the question asked on by Justice Broderick and students have
(26:05):
actually stood up in classrooms and said that they either
were stressed or they knew someone who was stressed. What
has been your experience, Jeff.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Levin, Yeah, there's no question about it. Last fall, a
year ago, I was working with a D one Boston
Area college women's soccer team, and you ask, do the
kids understand it when you say to kids, you guys
have outcome fever? They look up, what's outcome fever? Miss eleven? Well,
that's when you cause your self esteem to depend on
(26:39):
how you look and how you do. They completely get
it when that term, which my wife came up with
one day, is used because it crystallizes their experience. And
this soccer team one day said Jeff, can we just
play a game? These young women are eighteen to twenty two,
And I said, I'm not huge on games. I said, Dan,
(27:00):
why don't we play Duck Duck goose? And they played
Duck Duck Goose for forty seven minutes. Because I looked
at my watch, I thought, certainly, college girls don't want
to play duck duck goose at all. But their childhood
effectively ends from the perspective of play and imagination. It
effectively ends when they get a phone. And then there's
(27:21):
the new parenting playbook bus that we seem to have
gotten on, and it's it's parenting is a scary job.
You have to let your kids go at age appropriate levels.
And we hear the stories of you know, law school
graduates bringing their parents to their first interview, and it's
becoming less and less uncommon, and it's scary to it's
(27:44):
kind of scary to let go. But you have to
let go, to let the kid, to let the kid
fall and dust him or herself off and find his
or her own voice. You have to do it, and
it's getting harder and harder.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I know
a lot of people have talked about is the idea
that everybody gets metals and everybody gets trophies, So you know,
there's everybody is. You know, there's a whole bunch of
things that have come into our society for good purpose
and good reason that may have reinforced some of the
(28:17):
things that you, both, gentlemen, both feel are are so destructive.
We're going to take a break. We're going to go
to phone calls. Right after the break six one seven
thirty six one seven ninety. I want to know if
you agree or disagree, and particularly if your parents, if
you'd like to fess up and say, hey, maybe we
(28:37):
could have maybe we could have allowed for some more playtime,
for less stress. I think that again, I'm guilty. I'm guilty.
I wish that I could do some things over. I
think all of us, if we're honest, if we have children,
we probably have been again we've tried to give them
(29:02):
things maybe that we didn't have as kids. I don't know.
There's probably a bunch of sociological factors in my first
phone call coming up as someone who's sociologist. So will
we'll piro it to that part of the story right
after this here on nightside. Feel free to light the
lines up. I'm willing to go a little bit longer.
(29:22):
I don't know if these gentlemen want to move into
the next hour as well, But I think this is
such a critically important topic. I'm really not I'm not
particularly interested in any other topic than this right now
because I think when having watched Judge this Broaderick's Ted
(29:42):
Talk today, it was nineteen minutes of powerful presentation and
self reflection. Back on Nightside after this.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
You're on Nightstide with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Gentlemen, we have lots of calls. We're going to start
with Robin, who's calling from the state of Maryland. Robin,
welcome to Nightside. You were on with John Broderick, FULMA,
chief Justice of the Hampshire Supreme Court, and therapist, life
coach and Fuller Middle school teacher Jeffrey Levin. Go ahead, Robin, Hi, I.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
Was a counselor in a high school for forty years,
and as I heard you discussing this important topic, there
was one thing that kids used to come and tell
me all the time, and that was that their parents
never listened. And so I think that's an important piece
(30:36):
to start with.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay, So the parents didn't listen about what their problems
or their schooling and what did they not listen about.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Jilly didn't want to talk to them. They weren't interested
in listening to what.
Speaker 7 (30:50):
They were doing in school, how they felt, and so
they were constantly coming to talk to me about what
your parents who are not doing at home.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Okay, let me.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Get Justice Broderick to comment on that. He's talked to
about one hundred and twenty thousand young people who appeared
before one hundred and twenty thousand young people in the
last seven years. Justice Broderick, you're with Robin from Maryland
had to say your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I did. First of all, she had a very hard job,
and so bless her for doing that. For all those years.
Of what I've heard from kids all over New England
is they were almost afraid to tell their parents about
their stress or anxiety or the depression because they self stigmatized.
(31:43):
I'll give you one example. I spoke one day after
my talk to a football player senior in high school.
Was a big guy, and he waited to talk to me. Now,
he's never met me, and when he came over to me,
he was crying, this big football guy. And I said,
and he said, I think I have pretty bad anxiety
and I may have depression, and I said, well, it's
(32:06):
not your fault. You know, that's a health issue. Have
you talked to you parents? He said, oh, I could
never tell my parents. And said, what if you injured,
you kne and you couldn't play in the game. I said,
would you tell them that? Oh, of course I tell
them that. I said, they're both health problems, and so
you need to see a counselor. That's what you need
to do. And so I direc couldn't do that. I
(32:29):
couldn't require it. And I was leaving the school that
day about an hour later and it's coming out of
the counseling office. He said, hey, judge, I made an
appointment and said, you're just as far as I thought
you were. Kids today Dan will talk to other kids.
Kids today will talk to Jeff Levin. I mean, I've
been at rooms with him. It's really impressive how kids
(32:51):
open to him, and they will do that. They want
to talk about it, but they don't want to tell
their parents, often because it's not something that's associated with success.
And there are a lot of bright students who are
doing it very well, as true, but who have anxiety
or depression, and we don't want to hear that, because
(33:11):
that might mean you're not going to beach.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Dan, can I jump in real quick? As a clinician
for twenty five years and a life coach, you know,
I was trained as a clinical social worker. The kids
have no other words. It's anxiety, it's depression, a lot
of it is outcome fever. And the devil's bargain that
we've made in families is we focus so much on achievement.
(33:35):
Justice Broderick mentioned the grades are posted every day. I mean,
I think Dan, Judge Broderick and Jeff if we got
a sixty five on a math desk, we you know,
stuck it in our backpack and studied harder if we
wanted to get a decent grade. These kids don't have
that opportunity. So when you when you feel like you're failing,
kids tell me constantly, I'm terrified to disappoint my parents.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I hear it.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I've worked a little bit two hundred athletic teams. I
was working with one tonight, so it's kind of a
devil's bargain that all.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Right, all right, Robin, thank you for the call. I
want to get one more in here before we have
to end the eleven o'clock hour. I'm going to see
both of you will stick with us a little bit
into the eleven o'clock hour. I don't know what your
midtimes are, but if possible, that would be great. Robin,
thank you for the call. Let me go to Jack
in Newton. Jack, you are a sociologist, if I recall correct.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Yeah, Jack Porter, I'm a sociologist. It's a great topic.
I remember thirty forty years ago in Luton the Highland's
Mario Bocabella restaurant tour, and I have to kind of
step in when kids were just hanging around, you know,
just talking smoking or whatever. I mean cigarettes. But the
(34:49):
business people and the police saw them as a threat.
So we talked to everybody and we said, hey, they
just made a place to hang out, and we know
where they are. They're not hiding out on the baseman
somewhere watching well back then on television and so so
that's one thing that we have to change the perception.
The second is a lot of people come up to
(35:11):
me and say, oh, how can I get into Harvard?
How can I get into college? And so you've got
to you're putting too much pressure on your kids, you know,
got to you know, relax. You know, not everyone's going
to get into Harvard or Yale. There's only one hundred
other great schools, so stop worrying. You know, maybe those
great schools aren't really the ones for you anyway, would
(35:33):
be much happier at a at a different kind of school,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
So we have So what you have heard Justice Broderick
and and Jeff Levin talk about is you're right on
board with this, Jack, correct, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Why do you think, Jack, in your opinion, more people
don't follow that? Again, you call it sort of a
more lays fair lifestyle for a child to to to live.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
What I think? Yeah, I think that the parents are
very insecure they live offer their children are the you know,
I think that's one of the major problems. They're just
they're they're just over determining and over managing them because
they're kind of insecure, just letting them be and also
(36:28):
this pressure to achieve. You know, the only one they
can talk to are people like me, are and others.
They can't even talk to their own parents. All right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Let me let me get a quick comment. And I
got to be a quick comic because we only got
a couple of minutes left in the break to what
Jack had to say, Jeff, why don't you go first?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And then Jack is right? Then, But I think I
call it the overwhelming tragedy list, Callumbine nine to eleven,
crack economy, the random violence, phone of political absurdity. Is
just too much going on, and I often wonder why
have parents overmanaged what's going on. I think they're unconsciously afraid.
(37:11):
I think the world certainly feels like a more scary place,
and the human instinct is to overprotect your kids, and
that I think I would have done the same thing
had Miranda and I had kids.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Okay, that's what I think. Comment if you would, and
what Jack had to say, and if it's okay, I'd
love to hold both of you into the next hour
because we have other phone calls.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Sure, I'd love to do very quickly. I agree with
what you were saying about the way, and I would
say I just for the people listen to ask themselves
this question. Has anyone asked you after your first job,
how you did in high school, what courses you took,
(37:51):
what your GPA was. I went to law school. No
one's ever asked me, how did you do in law
school or nobody, but they if you judge you on
who you are, what skills you have with people, and
then solving problems, and some of those skills then happen
without guidance. It's called living life as a child, and
(38:13):
you need to have some of those experiences to learn
from life. It's a great teacher, and I agree with
Jeff Love and parents are frightened that the kids won't
make it in the global economy. So they're going to
help them, and they're going to decide for them, and
they're going to manage their academics, micromanage them. It's causing
kids enormous stress. And these kids are not finding time
(38:37):
to figure out who they are, what they really want
to do in life. I see it everywhere and go all.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, gentlemen, we got to take a pause here, and
no one can interrupt the eleven o'clock news. You get
about three, four or five minutes where you can get
up and stretch your legs, get a glass of water.
Jackie Newton is always Thank you very much, jack appreciate
your time, Appreciate your call. For those of you on
the line, stay there. If you're not six months, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty
(39:03):
And I'm wondering if any parents tonight want to join
the conversation and fess up to maybe maybe some behavior
that has been described in the last hour. I have
already fessed up. Maybe there's others out there who might
have the courage to join me back on nightside right
after this
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