Maximizing Results When Website Traffic Falls: Expert Insights with Trevor Levine

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing,
your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host, Matt Bertram,so today I think it would be
great to bring in a guest thatspecializes in conversions
because, as we know, what'sgoing on with Google all that
traffic has just kind of leftthe site and now you're

(00:40):
optimizing off page and when youget somebody to your website
today, you absolutely 100% needto be laser focused on
conversions.
So I wanted to bring in alongtime expert.
Trevor Levin from MarketingExperts has been in the game a

(01:01):
long time.
He's helped REMAX agents driveweekend sales.
He's really good at high ticketfunnels, long form sales
letters.
He's worked with some of thetop brands like Aweber and
MyPoints to build squeeze pages,really leverage testimonials,
how to get you those conversions.

(01:21):
So I think that welcome to theshow, Char.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Thanks a lot.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm excited for you to be here because I think what
you do is so critical today witheverything that's going on.
A lot of the previous podcastshave been about LLMs and how to
rank, and what we're seeing inthe data on average is traffic
with AI overviews has dropped58.5% on average.
Okay, so I'm sure that there'sa range for different industries
.
We've seen all kinds of dropsfrom different news sources and

(01:58):
really high authority blog sites, where information that you
would usually discover on a pageis now being discovered in the
search bar or in the kind of AImode or the LLMs.
And so the selection process ishappening off page and so only
about half the traffic's comingto the website and if only half

(02:23):
the traffic's coming to thewebsite and they're very
transactional looking to buy yougot to be laser focused on
making the most out of thatcustomer and converting that
customer, and that's why Iwanted to bring you on.
Marketingsecretscom has beenaround for forever and I wanted
you to kind of help paint thepicture for people on what to

(02:45):
think about, because it's timeto reset, get back to the basics
and really focus on conversion,because there's been a lot of
other things going on.
If you're talking about thewebsite or you're running ads,
you got to be laser focused andfocus on conversions, and that's
why I brought you on and that'swhy I'm so excited for you to
be here.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Thanks, man, and that's why I brought you on and
that's why I'm so excited foryou to be here.
Thanks, man.
So are some of your listenersrunning paid ads, or are they
mostly all doing search engineoptimization?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I would say that there's a big mix.
So a lot of search enginemarketing is really like the
focus of what we do and what Italk about.
I've started to talk a lot moreabout automation and social
media because I'm seeing socialmedia actually start to fit into
the information architecture ofhow the LMs find content online

(03:36):
.
But primarily for 12 yearswe've been talking about SEO and
then leveraging SEO throughpaid ads and then certainly
there's opportunities of paidads in a search marketing
setting.
But, right, there's been a fanout of search and also on the
paid ads.

(03:56):
I believe in the 7-11-4framework, where seven hours of
content consumption of yourbrand, seeing your ad 11 times
or your logo 11 times onmultiple channels and SEO is
just one of those channels, andso you need to be collecting,

(04:18):
providing exposure and fishingin all these different ponds and
also you need to have thatmulti-touch attribution to bring
in there.
So that's kind of the frameworkin which we involve.
So we're kind of dabbling ineverything digital marketing or
internet marketing with a corebasis on SEO.
But I think paid absolutely hasa place and it can accelerate

(04:40):
the machine learning or theknowledge of getting the right
people there and so once theyget there, when they jump off to
that point.
Now, coming to your website, I'mseeing it even with our site.
The number one search for oursite today which hasn't always
been the case is our name, soour brand.
So all that research is beingdone before they get to our site

(05:01):
and now when they get there,you know they've all, they
already are pre pre-framed tothink whatever they're thinking
and are looking for something inparticular, you know.
Are they going to take action?
Are they going to convert?
Are they not?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
So for me to help your listeners the best, I want
to ask you a question the pagesthat they're mostly driving
traffic to, are they contentpages, or are they pages making
an offer for something that'sfor sale, or making an offer to
get on a phone call or Zoom call?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, I would tell you that I've seen with a lot of
at least our clients that cometo us are typically running paid
ads to like a service page orjust a branded page which
immediately say, hey, you shouldrun this to a service page, or
just a branded page whichimmediately say, hey, you should
run this to a landing page or asqueeze page.
I would love to get youropinion on, like a VSL sales

(05:53):
letter of like a downloadable,uh, versus like setting up a
call.
Um, what's the difference?
Like right, cause you got midfunnel, you got like here's the
big ask Are you putting both ofthose on one page or should you
run an offer to just adownloadable and then another
offer right, like a retargetingoffer to to scheduling?

(06:16):
So I would love to see what islike for the ideal state or the
frameworks that you've seen workthe best historically, like
across all industries, becausewe have a lot of different
listeners and web developers.
Like I can't tell youspecifically what everybody's
doing, but I can tell youhistorically what I've seen and
in the conversations I've had.

(06:37):
There are definitely some bestpractices or things that people
commonly do that we try to maybetweak that a little bit from
what they're currently doingbecause they're typically coming
to us, or when people aresubmitting questions is they're
trying to solve a problembecause something's not working.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, for sure, okay.
So let me jump in here Cause,as you've been explaining, I've
been having wanting to sharewhat I know.
Awesome wanting to share what Iknow Awesome.
So, first of all, there'scontent, like, if you're running
, if you're doing SEO and you'reusing long tail keyword phrases

(07:14):
to get somebody to a page, thatmight be mostly a content page,
right, because you want toteach them something about the
topic that you specialize in orwhatever.
What I specialize in just to beclear, so we can focus this is
on pages that either sellsomething or pages that invite

(07:37):
people to take an action, likejoining an email list or booking
a call or booking a meeting.
So what I want to do is focuson what I'm an expert on, which
is the conversion page.
It could be a video salesletter, it could be a long form
sales page, it could just be asqueeze page.
I recently helped a clientimprove the results for a summit

(08:01):
.
So the first part was a squeezepage, right, to just get people
to generate, uh, to join forfree.
And the second, thank you page,was where we offered the $67
package, right, with recordingsand transcripts and all that
stuff.
Um, you asked a minute ago whathave I found to be most
effective, like in terms ofbooking a call, versus videos or

(08:25):
downloads?
Is that what you want?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, like I think, like the big buckets that I
would put in and you candefinitely specialize and
provide clarity for me, becauseI'm not the expert in this and
that's why you're here is I lookat it like take an action, like
book a call, and then middle ofthe funnel is something of
value, a downloadable or awidget or you know some kind of

(08:49):
free gift or something like thatas middle of the funnel.
And so you know, typically whenwe're setting up campaigns,
we're maybe running them to.
If we're running it to a blog,there might be a uh, a
downloadable on the blog, um, orthere might be that mid, mid
page and then bottom of the page, book a call, like let's try to

(09:12):
get their information and thenlet's go for the, you know,
let's go for the full win, umand and get them to book a call
with with this uh, content orasset.
I think that we built a numberand I have specialists on my
team that help people grow,consulting businesses or
different kind of e-commerceinfo products, where the funnel

(09:39):
is a little bit different.
Right, if you're selling acourse or something like that,
how would you break it up intolike those buckets, and then
maybe give like the basic layoutof each, and then people can
frame up for them where they fitand then what they should be
doing.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Okay.
So there's no one size fits all.
It depends on your price point,it depends on your type of
service.
Now, if you're a coach,consultant, something like that,
and you have a high ticketoffer, then it makes sense to
get people on a call or a Zoommeeting right large quantities,

(10:26):
like, let's say, you have a bookfor $17 and you're selling
hundreds of thousands every weekor every month, then you don't
want to make the sale on thewebsite so a lot of it has to do
with the price point.
Let me start with, perhaps, thevideo sales letter.
The reason video sales lettersbecame popular in certain
industries is that it'simpossible for the person

(10:47):
viewing it to scroll down thepage and quickly see the price.
Okay, so that's and that's animportant principle.
It's really important that youdo not provide a link to your
checkout page or reveal theprice too early in the sales
process.
Unless it's $17, $47, then it'snot a big deal.

(11:08):
But if it's more than that, youwant to make sure you really
establish the value, youovercome the objections, you
explain why your offer is, orwhat you're offering is more
valuable, why it's better anddifferent than all of the
competitors and why it's thebest solution, and what is the
cost or consequence of choosingthe wrong solution or not

(11:29):
choosing a solution at all.
All that has to be done beforeyou reveal the price.
So video sales letters are greatIf you have a higher ticket
product $1,000, $2,000, becausepeople cannot find out what the
price is.
They can't immediatelydisqualify it and say, oh,
that's too expensive.
They have to go through thewhole sales pitch or

(11:49):
presentation, so to speak, andhear the answers to their
objections, hear why youroffering is different and better
than your competitors, etcetera.
But if you have a lower pricething, then you could just do a
sales page that offers somethingfor $17, $47, maybe even $97.

(12:11):
And with a video on it embedded.
But the sales letter doing mostof the work.
Tell me where you want to gofrom here.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
So my business partner sells, like, healthcare
supplements.
Okay, and I'm not going to go,well, I'm not going to go into
too much detail.
I'm going to go into somedetail, but he like we.
So we started building thisbrand and started selling
supplements online, which is,you know, reoccurring I wouldn't
say it's a high ticket item,but it's, you know,

(12:43):
buildingoccurring, um, Iwouldn't say it's a high ticket
item, uh, but it's, you know,building a lifestyle coaching,
uh, health kind of like, uh,consumable.
And we did a summit Actually,we just did a summit, um, and
we're about to do another onethat was absolutely like
gangbusters.
Uh he, he uh started a podcast.
Um, uh has a book out, book outwith the co-host that has some

(13:06):
clout.
So he's making some inroads andhe's been going to a lot of
affiliate conferences and whathis focus is is to build a
funnel that works right.
And he's been working on thisfor a while and he's got he's

(13:35):
got some good funnels.
But the thing that shocked meand this is this is I don't know
exactly where his business attoday and we we don't always
talk about what's going on withthat, but he was telling me as
he started going to theaffiliate conferences, which
they're always selling items,that a break-even funnel is
actually tough to build andtypically you're trying to just
break even on the spend and thenyou make your money upselling,

(13:58):
like the big ticket items thatkind of move you over the top.
Now he doesn't have a bigticket item, so he's selling
reoccurring right?
He's selling the supplements,so it doesn't have a big ticket
item, so he's sellingreoccurring right, he's selling
the supplements.
So it was a little bit of achallenge for him to build a a
profitable funnel at a productunder a hundred bucks like uh,
based on, like the fluctuationin price and stuff like that, um

(14:18):
, I don't know.
I think that there's a lot ofpeople out there I I kind of
would have put it into a bucketof saying, if you're not selling
something like that's 500 bucksor more, running ads is pretty
difficult because you need tohave.
And so I said, like bundle itright, like bundle it or gift
card, or like him and hers, likethere's different ways to do it

(14:40):
.
I don't know what even thefundamental principles would be
like as an, as an expert of.
Okay, if someone wants to builda funnel, what are the
questions that they should beasking themselves?
Cause I can only imagine peopleare finding this podcast and,
from what I have heard fromChris, they've been building a

(15:01):
funnel or working on a funnelfor a long time and that funnel,
that funnel, is just notworking the way they want it to.
Like everybody's, like digitalmarketing is going to make you a
millionaire and you know, I'vebeen working on this funnel
forever Right.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Let me say a few things about that.
So, um, we're we're touching ona few points.
First of all, yeah, bundlinginviting people to get a better
deal for two or three orwhatever higher quantity is a
good technique, and we can talkabout little techniques that can
help, like, for example, atwo-step checkout page.
You know, you invite the personto just enter their name and

(15:35):
email to start before they go tothe page that asks for the
credit card, and that way, ifthey abandon the checkout page,
well, we can talk about how toimprove conversion on the
checkout page in a moment.
But if they abandon, you've gottheir email and you can send
them the follow-up series.
But let's take a step back.
This idea of bundling or havinga two-step checkout page.

(15:57):
These are little techniquesthat can help.
But before we get to that, wehave to convince the reader that
the supplement that's beingoffered is better and different
than anything else that wouldpotentially solve your problem.
So let's just say thesupplement is to help with joint
pain.
Okay, well, how can peoplesolve?

(16:19):
What are the differentsolutions for solving joint pain
?
There's supplements.
What are the differentsolutions for solving joint pain
?
There's supplements.
There's pharmaceuticals.
There might be meal plans ordietary changes, there might be
some movement or exerciseroutine right, there's a lot of
different ways that people couldpotentially solve joint pain.

(16:40):
So before you worry abouttrying to sell them a three or
one, you have to convince themthat this is the.
This is the best solution.
And that's and that's what Ispecialize in.
So, um, you can use this is onething that you can use AI for.
You can go into AI and says why, why are supplements better?

(17:02):
Or what are the advantages ofnutritional supplements for
joint pain versuspharmaceuticals, exercise
routines, dietary changes, etcetera?
Right, Physical therapy,whatever the others might be,
and it'll tell you the generaladvantages of supplements.
But what it doesn't know iswhat is different and better
about your supplement versus allthe other supplements.

(17:24):
Now, to differentiate yoursupplement from your competitors
within that category ofsolution, right, ai can't answer
that.
That's what I work on clientswith is developing their unique
selling proposition, helpingmake really clear to the reader

(17:44):
or the viewer what are theconsequences and costs of
choosing the wrong solution,which means any other solution
that what you're offering, right, why is this different?
Why is this better?
What are the results people aregetting?
A lot of people have kind oflukewarm testimonials that say A

(18:05):
lot of people have kind oflukewarm testimonials that say I
really liked this supplement.
You know it came on time andyou know it lasted 60 days and I
think it's higher quality thanwhat I used before.
But they don't describe beforeand after results.
And when you don't havetestimonies with before and
after results, the reader is notgoing to be as convinced.

(18:27):
So that's one of the things thatI help with is having
conversations with yourcustomers or clients so we can
collaborate on really greattestimonials.
So I would ask questions or youcould potentially email them
some questions if you want to doit that way.
So I would ask questions or youcould potentially email them
some questions if you want to doit that way, and, based on the

(18:48):
questions, form a testimonial,send it back to the customer for
their approval, or, of course,they're free to edit it if they
want to change anything, andthen what we get back covers all
the bases and winds up being areally wow testimonial that's
going to make people feelcompelled to buy this product.
So those are some of the ways,some of the things that we have

(19:12):
to do before we get to bundlingor a two-step checkout page or
whatever.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
What about going even further?
And let's talk about the ad.
If you're running an ad, isthat the main recommendation of
how people are getting people toa squeeze page is through some
type of ads.
Is that what you've seen?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
I mean you could do it through affiliates.
You can do it through ads.
You can do it organically,which might mean that you're
blogging or, in your case,podcasting, or doing SEO.
I mean, there's all kinds ofways to do it.
And that brings me back tosomething you said that it's
really hard to break even on afunnel.
Well, that's true if you'reusing paid advertising, but if

(19:54):
you're using affiliates, thatdoesn't have to be a problem,
right.
Yeah, there's no cost, or ifyou're doing, organic and you're
ranking high for your blogposts.
That doesn't have to be aproblem, right?
So obviously, if you're doing ablog, those types of articles,
then you can have a column onthe page with call to action
boxes, right, that invite peopleto get a free thing or invite

(20:15):
people to click through andsolve their problem all the way
right.
Or somewhere a few placeswithin the article you can say
you know, if you'd like to knowabout how we're breaking ground
in solving this problem withoutthe usual hassles, headaches,

(20:35):
you know, or inconveniences,whatever it might be, click here
, like if it's losing weight,well, what's the usual hassle,
headache or inconvenience?
It's having to forego foodsthat you like or having to
exercise, which takes time.
So if your offer is get thebenefit without the

(20:57):
inconvenience that you wouldexpect, of course they're going
to click through to see yoursales page.
Of course they're going toclick through to see your sales
page.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
So I think we're talking about like well, the
unique selling propositionbuilds on that, but the ad
should just be asking thequestion that's already going on
in people's heads.
That is like for AI.
I feel like, for AI, mostpeople are going I'm afraid it's
going to replace my job.

(21:24):
That's what I feel like mostpeople are going.
I'm afraid it's going toreplace my job, like that's what
I feel like most people arethinking.
So if someone was, you know,selling something related to AI,
I would think that if you wererunning an ad or uh, doing a
blog or talking on a podcast orwhatever, if you titled it with
the headline in some ways, uh,which I actually, so I wonder if

(21:45):
this worked.
I don't know.
I had a post that didn't do toowell on social media, like I can
usually tell in the first hour,and so I I changed the title
and I changed it to that and Isaid you know, are you worried
about AI taking your job?
I think it's probably going toget more engagement, cause I
think that that's, when I talkto people, what I hear in
people's heads.
So I'm just trying to likeproject that on any kind of

(22:09):
service.
What's that one question thatthey're asking, or the
frustration that they're having,like when you think about
crafting a call to action to getthem to the squeeze page.
So like before the squeeze page, like what should, what should
be the components in thatmessaging of that ad?
I guess that's my question.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Okay, for for the kinds of clients that I help
generally, we're sellingsomething.
So one of the components thatyou can, that you can flesh out
in the offer, which I help withand then and then use to make
your ad more effective is theguarantee.
So we don't just want to offermoney back because you know

(22:49):
that's what people expect anywayand it's not competitive.
You want to look for somethingbold, right, like you can send
the empty container back afteryou use the thing, with a photo
showing us you know that youused it and and you can still
get a refund, or you can keepall the bonuses.
You know, even if, even if thething you don't like the product

(23:11):
.
Yeah, yeah so either way, that'sa guaranteed gain, right,
that's what we want is is,whether they ask for a refund or
not, there's a guaranteed gain.
Now some some marketers thinkwell, I don't want to offer
something too bold like doubleyour money back right, or
something along those lines,because they're afraid that they

(23:33):
might lose money, but you cando that and tie it to a
conditional guarantee to protectyourself.
So what that means is, forexample, let's say that you have
a coaching program.
Are some of your listenerscoaches or consultants?
Yeah, or you're a consultantCould be either Okay, and you

(23:56):
have eight sessions with theclient and you're promising a
certain outcome.
So, for example, let's sayyou're a relationship coach and
you're promising, but by the endof eight weeks, um, people they
date will treat them withrespect.
Or you're promising, but by theend of six months they will be
in a loving relationship.
That's a pretty bold guarantee,but you can tie it to a

(24:19):
condition.
The condition is they have tosubmit homework by midnight
every Monday, every week, untilthe program is over, and they
also have to.
You could have other things.
They have to go on a date everyweek?
Right, they have to.
You can come up with your listof criteria.
If you're selling somethingthat helps them make money, then
the condition could be thatthey're spending a certain

(24:42):
amount that they document to youright On ads or whatever it
might be, so that, you right,they have to meet the condition
to qualify for the guarantee,and that helps protect you, but
it also helps to really wow yourlisteners, your viewers, your
readers, your visitors, becauseyou can put it in your headline.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
You'll be in a loving relationship in six months or
you don't pay.
That's pretty compelling.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Right, or yeah.
So then what you can do is youcan take it to your paid ad,
which is shorter, and you canmake that the headline or one of
the components in your ad.
Do you want to be in a lovingrelationship within six months?
You will be.
Or you won't pay, or it's orcost nothing.

(25:31):
Now you can put it in the adand you don't have to explain
the conditions in the ad.
Right, You're using it to getpeople to come over to your
sales page or video sales letter, and that's where you know,
when you get to the guarantee,you can explain the conditions.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay.
So, trevor, what I'm hearing isthe two major components you
need for your offer of gettingthem to the squeeze page is a, a
, a wow kind of over the topoffer that's going to grab their
attention.
You want to have guarantees tomake sure that they're doing all
the things that would, uh, givethem a high likelihood of

(26:08):
having yes.
And then, um, you know, and theother one you were talking
about with the landing page,specifically like the
transformational before andafter, but on the ad you were
saying there was the.
Was it the unique sellingproposition or is it really the
offer that, or they leave,they're going to leave with

(26:31):
something better than they have,but that could be pulled
through the whole thing like if,oh, yeah I mean you can get.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
You can get to that in the sales page yeah, yeah,
the video sales letter is that?
is that, no matter what theydecide, there's a guaranteed
gain, like they keep all thebonuses, or they keep everything
they already downloaded right,or you know you can come up with
with what it's going to be.
Um, hang on.
I had a thought related to whatwe're just talking about, about
the guarantee.
There's another thing.

(26:59):
Let's say you're selling a highticket, something right, and
you have a bold guarantee, likeyou know you will.
We guarantee that you'll begrossing $10,000 a month,
$20,000 a month, whatever itmight be right, by the end of
this program.
Well, you can have criteria toqualify prospective clients, to

(27:20):
see if they qualify for thatguarantee.
So you can ask them well, howmuch are you spending on paid
advertising?
If they're spending less than Xdollars, they don't qualify for
the guarantee and you candownsell to a different
guarantee.
You can say, okay, well, youknow that guarantee is for
people that are spending Xdollars per month on advertising
.
Since you're not, you know wecan still work with you and

(27:42):
here's what we will guarantee.
And then you can downsell tosomething that's less bold.
But meanwhile you got them fromthe ad to your page, to the
call, because it's a boldguarantee.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
So yeah, so I just I, I'm in my head, I'm going, okay
, add, and then we'll talk aboutthe funnel next.
And, and just to kind of finishup on on the ad, what I'm
hearing is you need to make thatbold guarantee to be something
that's going to stop the scrollor whatever to get them to be
like, wow, I need to payattention to this and it it

(28:17):
really impresses them because itsolves their problem with that
guaranteed gain.
Is there any other kind ofautonomy?
Or like a structure autonomy,yeah, like, is there anything
else that needs to be in the ador the offer of bringing them

(28:38):
into the squeeze page?
Is there anything that you needto put out there in that
besides the bold?
After that you would say wouldbe like structure wise, that you
really need to focus on.
And then I would love to talkabout optimizing the landing
page next.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Sure, sure.
So, to be honest, people hireme mostly to optimize conversion
on their landing pages, salespages, video, sales letters,
although I do ads as well.
I have a much longer trackrecord of doing the landing
pages and sales pages, so I cangive you some things that have
worked.
But I also want to betransparent that my main

(29:16):
expertise is on converting themonce they hit your page.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
All right, well, tell me that, and then let's get to
what you've done that ton of,because I know there's some real
art to long form sales letters.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Let me also, just while we're on the topic of
making bold guarantees, if youcome to my website,
marketingexpertscom, it saysright in the headline that we'll
beat your conversion rate oryou don't pay.
So that's a good example ofmaking a bold guarantee.
But the client has to qualifyright.
So if they don't have splittesting software, if they don't
meet certain other obviousqualifications, then they're not

(29:53):
qualified for that guarantee.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I just wanted to let everybody know marketing secrets
.
If you didn't catch thebeginning marketingsecretscom, I
have it pulled up right here.
Absolutely, he's got thatguarantee right at the top and
you know it works if he's doingit so great.
Yeah, so I just wanted tohighlight that.
Yeah, so, just on the offer orad before they get to the page I

(30:20):
know we're really focused onmaybe a headline.
Is there anything else besidesthat bold offer that need to be
included?
And then let's talk about thelanding page.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Oh, yeah, there's a lot of components to a good
sales page.
I mean, obviously you want tohave a compelling headline, you
want to have.
So, let's see, you want tostart off by talking to the
person about the problem thatbrought them here, ok, and
agitate the pains and you wantto amplify how it's, what it's

(30:55):
costing them.
What are the costs, what arethe pains, what are the problems
?
And then what are the?
What's the domino effect?
So let's say, for example,you're talking about joint pain,
you know.
You can obviously start bysaying you know, isn't it
frustrating to walk through yourday?

(31:15):
You know, feeling pain in yourelbows or knees, hips, whatever.
But then you want to take itfurther.
Well, what are the consequencesof living with that beyond just
having pain in your body?
Are you frustrated because whenyou go to visit your grandkids,
you're confined to a chair andyou can't sit on the floor and
play with them like you used toSee.
That would be an example.
You used to see that would bean example.

(31:42):
Um, or you know, you can comeup with a list of other things
but you want to talk about howis it impacting their life in
other ways?
How is it making them feeldisconnected from their family,
right?
How is it limiting theirfreedom?
Maybe they can't go for a walkor go for a hike or go for a
bike ride, and so you know youwant to talk with them about not
only the obvious pain orproblem, but also the ripple

(32:03):
effect that's happening andreally amplify that.
That's the first step.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
That's the first step , like really just dig in on the
problem that they're feeling,that they're struggling with and
and really kind of address thatand blow that up.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah.
Or if you're selling to womenwho don't feel respected in
their relationships, you cantalk about do you feel
frustrated or do you feelconflicted about staying with
your partner when you're notrespected because you worry that
you might not find someonebetter?
and it's and it's usually thisway, and the next, the next guy

(32:45):
might just treat you the same,and yet you know you deserve
better and and you know it's itjust breaks your heart and and
you lie awake at night whenyou're not getting your needs
met.
So you know you want to amplifythe problem.
And then you know, depending onif you're selling, let's say,

(33:05):
particularly to middle-agedwomen, you could add you know
you're not getting any youngerand what's going to happen if
you stay with the man you'rewith now for another year, three
years, five years, right, andyou finally reach a breaking
point down the road five yearsfrom now.
Is that really going to bebetter than learning to command

(33:30):
love and respect right now?

Speaker 2 (33:32):
You just really twist it and get them to visualize it
.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, and talk about how they're losing sleep at
night, how their heart is inpain, how they feel hurt and
taken for granted.
So we really want to elaborateand amplify all the pains and
problems.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Elaborate and amplify all the pains and problems.
My question to you with that isif you're selling like a
service, like a service-basedbusiness or something like that,
how does that translate right?
So if you're not selling aproduct that has an outcome, but
you're selling like a service,I don't know like, just think of
any service that you have inyour head that you want to share
.
That this could be appliedeasily to what would that look

(34:21):
like if you're selling a serviceor even like let's talk B2B.
Right, you're selling somethingwhere maybe you're speaking to
a business owner, but maybeyou're speaking to a decision
maker a business owner, butmaybe you're speaking to a

(34:42):
decision maker.
Do you want to, on aprofessional website, talk about
all those insecurities on thepage?
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Well, okay, so to talk about B2B, one of my
projects was for a Remax agentand he decided he was going to
do a three-day superstar what doyou call it?
Superstar agent boot camp.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Right where he's going to teach people how he's
selling.
Like you know, 100 homes amonth Maybe it wasn't quite that
much, it was a lot of homes andhe had a whole system.
He had a whole team right whowas he was delegating stuff to
and all kinds of paidadvertising, so he had tons of
leads coming in and referralsanyhow.

(35:24):
So he he hired me to create amagalog which is like it's a
direct mail piece, it's like asales page, but it looks more
like a.
I'm sorry it's like a longsales letter, but it looks more
like a.
I'm sorry it's like a longsales letter, but it looks more
like a magazine, right, becausethere's so many images and
sideboards and things like that.
And the bootcamp was $2,000.

(35:45):
And, yeah, we absolutely talkedto the reader.
I mean, of course, real estateagents aren't like a CEO of a
big company, but they are smallbusiness owners and we talk to
them.
You know about the frustrationof, you know, taking calls
morning, noon and midnight right, even on weekends, right, when

(36:07):
they're constantly beingdistracted from family events
and kids baseball games or plays.
Right, because they feel theneed, they feel the desperation
and the need to always be oncall and they don't have a team
helping them, et cetera, etcetera.
So yeah, here too, we're notjust talking about make more
money selling more homes.
We're talking about the impacton their family life.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Okay, yeah, no, no, I see, I see that translated.
So okay, so let's go to thenext step.
So you've agitated them, andthen what do you want to hit
them with next?

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Okay, I feel maybe it's my ego, but I want to
mention that when he mailed thatmagalog within two days he sold
out the bootcamp and grossed$250,000.
So I'm pretty proud of that andhe repeated that obviously each
time he did the bootcamp andgrows $250,000.
Uh, so I'm pretty proud of thatand he repeated that obviously
each time he did the bootcamp.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
That's a great case study.
Yeah, um, uh, you got and ifyou go to marketingexpertscom
you can see it uh, the casestudy right there on the
homepage.
So pretty fun, phenomenalresults.
So thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, sure.
Um, I'm sorry, what was yourlast question?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Oh, just well yeah, what comes after you?
You've agitated the pain.
Now what do you do next?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Okay, so.
So next to you you talk, thenyou can introduce your solution,
and now you've got to explainwhy it's different and better
than any other solution theymight be considering.
So you know, give me a, give mean example.
Do you want to talk about asupplement?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
We can.
We can talk about like I, Ithink, like anything.
Anything you want to talk about, tell me.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Right.
So let's say, let's do this.
I used to take turmericsupplements and I actually, when
I I built a company, I built anonline school that was in the
health field and thensubsequently sold it.
But we were a joint venturepartner with a company that sold
turmeric supplements.
We, you know, we were anaffiliate for them and vice
versa.
So, um, I have a littleexperience, you know, promoting

(38:15):
this.
There are a lot of turmericsupplements on the market, right
, and usually people buy thembecause they have pain.
So why should they if they havepain?
First of all, you have to showthem why is turmeric better than
all the other ways that theycould address their pain?
Why is it better than ibuprofen?
Why is it better than coldpacks, right?
Why is it better than coldpacks, right?

(38:35):
Why is it better than otherpharmaceuticals?
Once you do that, which AI canhelp you with, then you've got
to explain, well, why is yourturmeric supplement different
and better than all the others,and what are the costs and
consequences of choosing adifferent one that doesn't do
what yours does?
So you know.
Now you've got to explainwhat's so unique about it, why

(38:58):
you know.
What do you do?
Do you?
Is it liposomal.
Does it have a higher potency,you know?
And if so, how?
How did you make that possible?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
So one of the things you said was the, the uh, if
they choose the other supplement, like, and not theirs, you need
to highlight what they'remissing.
Could you go into a little bitmore detail there?
That's interesting.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, actually, I'm working on a project right now
where I'm doing that.
It's for an air filter, and sothis air filter not only has a
well, it's better than HEPAfilter, which is what most
people sell, because it itcaptures particles up to 100
times smaller than a regularHEPA filter.
So that includes viruses,bacteria, smoke from wildfires,

(39:46):
vocs, which are volatile organiccompounds, and actually I
misspoke right there.
The reason it captures VOCs isit also has a layer of carbon,
and so the carbon captures thevocs.
Now what we say to differentiateit is is and this is true is
that most of the air filters onthe market claim to have a

(40:09):
carbon filter, but when you goin there, it's just like a piece
of fabric where they sprayedsome carbon.
It it's like super thin andalso a lot of them.
The actual filter that's insidethe unit has gaps around the
edges, so some of the air that'sbeing sucked in doesn't go
through the filter.
It goes through the edges andisn't really getting filtered.

(40:31):
And they're also just thestandard HEPA design, which,
which is good it capturesparticles down to a certain
degree.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
So you're calling these out, you're basically
calling out all these likedeficiencies, essentially in the
competition.
So you're maybe not naming themby name, but you're certainly
pointing out here's some of theissues with the other stuff on
the market and this is whymine's better out.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Here's some of the issues with the other stuff on
the market, and this is whymine's better.
Yeah, I mean, you could be.
You could be vulnerable if youbuy.
If you buy a different one, youyou are vulnerable to volatile
organic compounds.
You're vulnerable tooff-gassing from new
construction homes or evenfurniture or your bed that
you're sleeping in.
You're vulnerable to virusesand bacterias and pollution

(41:20):
coming from major roads orhighways within a mile of your
house.
And the reason is because theydon't have the things that this
filter has.
They don't have the filter thatremoves particles up to 100
times smaller.
They don't have the thickcarbon filter.
They don't have the interiorfilter with no gaps around it,

(41:44):
right, and so we're talking tothem about the costs and
consequences of choosing adifferent air filter.
And then, to make it evenbetter, we have some
testimonials from people whosaid I noticed a difference
within 24 hours, or I noticed adifference within three days.
I was able to breathe betterthan I ever did with my previous

(42:06):
air filter, so that really getsthe point across agitating it.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
then you're, you're, you're talking about your unique
selling profit, your uniqueselling proposition.
And then, um, maybe, uh, theguarantee or what, what they're
missing that if they go withsomebody else, like what they're
what, what they could be atrisk for.
And then, and the next, I guess, is testimonials, right, so
you're, you're blanketing reallyhigh quality testimonials,

(42:34):
which you alluded to at thebeginning of the pod, about you
know, they, they really need tosay the transformation, the
before and after what they did.
They need to be moredescriptive about the, the type
of review, and maybe about the,the product or service in
specifics, versus likegeneralities or like a general

(42:56):
like.
I think people use likecustomer service as as like a
default or a go-to, and they'relike we have good customer
service and it's like what doesthat mean?
If someone gives you atestimony for good coverage of
service, what does that actuallymean to?
You know, it means so manydifferent things.
That's not the main draw.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
The main draw is solving the problem.
So you've got to havetestimonials that describe
before and after results,showing the problem got solved.
Now one of the next steps is todevelop your offer.
So there's a big differencebetween just describing what you
sell and having an offer.

(43:34):
Describing what you selldoesn't create any urgency, so
they can read it all and thensay, okay, I'll think about it,
I'll see what else is on themarket, maybe I'll come back.
There's a variety of ways thatyou can create an offer,
depending on what you're selling, but here are some that we've
used successfully.
You can say that normally,let's say, you've got a course

(43:59):
or a high ticket program thatcosts a few hundred or a few
thousand dollars, but you'regoing to pull out some nugget,
some excerpt from that that'svaluable and allow people to buy
it for a low price, like as atripwire.
You familiar with that phrase.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I am Yep.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Okay, so the offer is , you know, for a limited time,
normally you would have to joinour you coaching program or our
whatever you know, whateverprogram uh to get thousands of
dollars to get this particularthing, or you would have to sign
up for our course, right, andpay a monthly fee for a year,

(44:38):
whatever it might be, but for alimited time.
We've pulled out this particularthing that our customers love
and gives them this result, andand we're letting you have it
for $7 or $19 or whatever.
When I built my company, we usethat technique successfully,
and I think I worked with RyanDice personally to develop this

(44:59):
tripwire offer.
We had a course that cost about$200 for the you know basic
version or 500 for thecertificate version with 50
lessons, and so what we did iswe pulled out one of the lessons
on omega-3s.
Our customers were mostlyvegans or vegetarians, and so

(45:21):
they wanted to make sure thatthey would thrive and not have
disease, but also not havedeficiencies, and one of the
things that can be harder to geton a plant-based diet is EPA
and DHA, which are types ofomega-3s.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
So Ryan Dice had another course outside of
digital marketing.
Is that kind of?
We pivoted a little bit.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Oh yeah, Ryan Dice had a lot of offerings.
I went to a bunch of hisconferences and then at one he
offered to work with youpersonally on a tripwire right
where he met with you like threetimes, and then there's also a
video course that you you watchthrough to get ideas for your
tripwire and then you know, buthe, he worked with me on the
offer cool that was.

(46:04):
That was within digital marker,that was not separate.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Okay okay, yeah, yeah , um, so, anyhow.
So what we did is we took thisout.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
We offered it for seven dollars.
That was within digital marker.
That was not separate.
Okay, okay, yeah, so, anyhow.
So what we did is we took thisout.
We offered it for $7.
We had a little video salesletter.
Oh, and this is a goodtechnique If you have a squeeze
page where you're offeringsomething for free, then the
thank you page is youropportunity to offer something
paid, right.
Don't squander that opportunity.
That's what we did.

(46:28):
We had our affiliates drivetraffic to a squeeze page and
then on the, let me think how wedid this, okay.
So the squeeze page said findout why you may be deficient in
EPA and DHA on a plant-baseddiet and what the solution is.
So that was the free offer.

(46:50):
So they opted.
In Next page, they saw a video.
The first approximately 10minutes of the video maybe five
to 10 minutes.
I sold the company in 2017.
But the first half of the videowas just informative and
educational and had value.
Right video was just informativeand educational and had value

(47:11):
right, explaining to them that alot of packaged foods,
processed foods and restaurantsfoods are high in omega-6s, and
that makes it hard for theirbody to turn the omega-3s that
they're getting, which arecalled ALA, into EPA and DHA,
and so it kind of left them withhey, if, if this was helpful to
you and you want to just stopeating restaurant foods and

(47:33):
packaged foods, great, you know,you're good to go and you know,
if you want to know, if youwant to know easier ways to
solve the problem, you know,keep listening, keep watching.
And then that's when we offeredthem the $7 excerpt from our
course and we let them know thatnormally you'd have to pay

(47:53):
about $200 or sign up formonthly fees to get this, but
we're pulling it out for alimited time, letting you have
it for $7.
And 9.1% of the people thatopted in bought the $7 thing,
and of course, those that boughtthe $7 thing were then offered
the $200 course right, and thosethat didn't buy the $200 course

(48:15):
right away, we got theopportunity to over-deliver and
show them the quality of ourcourse material, and so that
increased the percentage ofthose buyers who then went on to
buy the course.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Awesome.
So I'm on your website rightnow and looking at the direct
response advertising services.
Like your clients, like FrankKern, which I've read through a
lot of his content, interestingclients that sell software,
insurance courses, nutrition,real estate, big internet

(48:54):
marketing, business crisisbuilding, internet marketing
courses and membership for allof those that are listening, and
long form sales letters on yourservices.
Long form sales letters, vsls,decoy pricing.
You want to talk a little bitabout decoy pricing.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Yeah, sure, we use that again with my online school
.
So this is where you have threeprice points and you use one of
them to make another one seemlike a bargain.
Oh wait, yeah, yeah, you knowokay.
So in our case we had the pricepoints were $19.97 a month for
basic, $49.97 a month for goldand $59.97 a month for

(49:35):
certificate, and so what we didis we made obviously the
difference between $49 and $59 amonth.
It's not that big.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
But we gave so much more on the $59 a month program
than we did on 49.
So, for example, the biggestone was that after each of the
lessons they could take an openbook exam and after passing all
the 50 exams they could get acertificate of completion.
That would give them somecredibility if they wanted to be
a cooking class teacher orhealth coach or something like

(50:07):
that.
And so, um, hardly anybodybought the gold one because
they're they're like, you know,for ten dollars more I could
earn a certificate, and therewere other perks that we offer
with certificate right now.
I mean that we offered withcertificate back then as well to
really make it like twice asvaluable for only $10 a month

(50:29):
more.
So the gold wasn't really therebecause we cared about anybody
buying gold.
That was the decoy.
It was there so that peoplecould compare the most expensive
one and then see, wow, it getsso much more value that this is
actually more of a bargain, andthis is the one I should do.
That's how you use decoypricing.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I like that.
I my my brain was actuallygoing to the anchoring of like
you need like three differentchoices, and then everybody kind
of highlights the center.
One is like uh, this is themost preferred, and maybe you
anchor the top price really,really high, which some people
will buy it.
But it goes.
But it's going okay.

(51:10):
Well, this is so expensive, Ican get this for a pretty good
deal.
So I was just looking at a, adifferent way to to anchor it.
But I, I like, I like also howyou did it, where you kind of
create a little bit of a, acliff for them to to step off to
the bigger one.
That's, that's really cool, um.
So then segmentation, um, youknow, that's like your, your,

(51:34):
your ICP, like your, your idealprospect, uh, funnel
optimization.
So you're looking at like thefull funnel from the ads to the
tripwires, to the landing page,to the, uh, the, the, the free
or the upsell at the end.
And I've seen, like uh, Iforget who it is, but as I've
like seen some reallyinteresting funnels where you

(51:56):
got like upsell and then like adownsell and then like an
additional downsell, like youcan't get out of the funnel.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
You know if it's all right.
You know, and I only shared oneof the ways to develop an offer
and there's several others Icould share.
Yeah, let's go through.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
You know what I only shared one of the ways to
develop an offer and there'sseveral others I could share.
Yeah, let's go through it.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Because nobody's going to make it to your upsells
or downsells if they don't buythe main thing.
So let's, for a minute, stayfocused on converting,
maximizing conversion of themain thing, right?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
I love that yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
So another way you can do it is say only the next
50 customers will get thisspecial discount or or this
special bonus package or we'llget to a free one if you buy two
Right.
So with a supplement example,you can say, for the next 50
customers you buy to get onefree, and have a countdown thing
, have some odd number, don'tmake it 50.
Like, we're down to 43.
We're down to 31, somethinglike that.
So bonuses that are limited aswell are good.

(52:59):
So you can have digitaldownloads.
You can have a freebreakthrough session where they
you know this is great forcoaches you sell the tripwire
for whatever $7, $17, $47.
And then as one of the bonuses,you offer a free breakthrough
session.
And that's your real purpose isto get them on that Zoom

(53:20):
meeting or that call right forthe breakthrough session, and
the product is just a leadgenerator from your standpoint.
For them it's an added value tobe able to have a one-on-one
call right with an expert.
So that's another way to do it.
You can have a trade-in offer.
So you mentioned largercompanies.
If they're selling physicalproducts, you can.

(53:42):
You know some of the phonecompanies do this Trade in your
old phone from other brands,right and and to buy a samsung
and then you know we'll give you200 off or whatever it might be
.
You can also widen the gapbetween the free thing and the
paid thing.
I just did this for a summit.
That's been it's been going for14 years.

(54:04):
So they have a lot ofaffiliates driving traffic to
the squeeze page where peopleregister for free for the summit
and then on the thank you page,of course, they offer a $67
package that includes recordingsand transcripts and other perks
like that.
So to improve the offer for thepaid thing, I came up with a

(54:29):
couple of ideas.
They had, like, a communityforum that would last only eight
days for people that registeredfor the eight-day summit.
And I said, well, why don't youoffer 60 days?
Like, have a separate forumthat's specifically for the
people who pay right, the VIPs,that last for 60 days, and that

(54:51):
way they feel like they're moreimportant, they're getting more
touch right, they're gettingspecial attention and they're
getting it for longer.
So the client did that.
The other thing we did I foundout that the client had recorded
a lot of video footage of allof the guest experts something
like 40 guest experts but theywere only using 20% of the video

(55:13):
content in the summit itself,because each day there would be
a certain amount of videocontent shared for eight days.
But when it was all said anddone, you only got to see 20% of
all of the video content thatwas collected, all of the
interviews.
So we made very explicit on thepage asking for $67 that when

(55:36):
you pay you don't just getlifetime access to the eight
episodes, but you also get theother 80% of the content, the
other 80% of the fascinatinginterviews, the other 80% of the
fascinating interviews with theexperts.
So that made a huge differencein widening the gap between free
and paid.
So that's another way that youcan improve your offer.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I love that.
Where would you like to go next?
I do have a question, but Iwant to make sure we're
following the flow in your head.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Yeah, do have a question, but I want to make
sure we're following the flow inyour head.
Yeah, well, one more thing youcan do to create urgency without
gimmicks or without atime-sensitive offer like a
limited bonus package orwhatever is.
You can talk about the naturalconsequences of waiting.
So let's say that who you'reselling to are people that are
in the process of writing theirfirst book and they really want

(56:30):
to write a book.
That's their aspiration, andyou know you're selling them
some kind of a coaching program,maybe a ghost writing program,
something that's going to helpthem get to the finish line,
right?
Well, what are the naturalconsequences of them waiting to
have someone like you or yourcompany helping them?
You could say imagine someoneelse beating you to the punch

(56:54):
and releasing a book that fillsthe exact same market niche as
you and theirs becomes abestseller.
How will you feel when theysteal your chance to become the
authority you deserve to be?
So you don't have to have alimited time offer for that
right.
That is a natural potentialconsequence of waiting.
If it's joint pain right, whatare the consequences of waiting

(57:19):
to solve this problem?
You know, if your joint painjust gets worse and worse, you
know it could be hard just toput on your socks in the morning
.
You're going to, you're goingto become a burden to your adult
children, asking them to comeover and help you put your
clothes on.
So those are some of thenatural consequences of of
waiting.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
I love that.
I love that.
That's actually a the book ideawas something that actually
happened to me.
Somebody that I knew I guess wewere operating on the same
wavelength came out with a bookthat was going to be titled what
I was going to title my book.
It was pretty wild, so thatlike totally happens right, yeah
.
What we're.

(58:01):
We're getting a little close totime.
I want to keep going.
I actually, as I was looking atyour services page, I wanted to
ask you a quick question.
I know we've jumped around alittle bit and I appreciate your
flexibility.
Check out page optimization.
I would love for you to kind ofspeak to conversion rates and

(58:22):
check out page optimization andany kind of you know best
practices you have around that.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
Sure I can.
Yeah, I've got some easy ones.
So the first thing is, assumingyou have a sales page that has
a link to your checkout page, donot provide that link too early
in your sales page.
Don't have a headline and thena link that says want it now?
Click here and then they go andfind out it's $497 and then they

(58:50):
abandon because they never readyour sales letter.
Okay, so make sure that you'vereally agitated their problems,
explain why your offer isdifferent and better and what
are the consequences and costsof choosing the wrong solution.
Overcome their objections andexplain your guarantee and risk
reversal before you provide thatlink to the checkout page.

(59:12):
So that's the first thing.
Also, don't assume that justbecause they saw testimonials
and read your guarantee and allthat stuff on the sales page,
that now when they go to thecheckout page they're going to
remember all that stuff and moveforward with the purchase.
They need to be reminded andreassured that this is the right

(59:33):
decision.
So you want to again recap yourrisk reversal or guarantee.
Again, show an image of whatthey're going to get.
So if it's like a course with abunch of bonuses, you know.
Have an image of what that isand put it there on the checkout
page.
Again, we talked about the riskreversal.

(59:53):
Again, put testimonials.
You might shorten some of yourbest testimonials.
Or you know, extract like thebest part of each one, not
shorten it, but you know,extract the most potent part of
each testimonial and put themagain on the checkout page with
the headshots, if you haveheadshots, that's something we
didn't even talk about is how tomake your testimonials more

(01:00:16):
effective.
So those are some ways that youcan increase conversion on the
checkout page.
Do you want to hear about howto make testimonials better?

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Is there time?
Okay, so the most believabletestimony.
So, first of all, don't assumethat people will believe that
your testimonials are real.
Some people are skeptical andif they just see a first name
and last initial and no headshot, they're going to be like did
you make that up?
You know how do I know that'sreal?
So the most believable ones arevideo testimonials and

(01:00:49):
screenshots of reviews that yougot on independent sites like
Trustpilot or Yelp or perhapsyour Facebook page, because you
can't edit those right.
So they know, and usually theyhave somebody's name or screen
name and perhaps their imagenext to it.
So that's, people know thatthat is a real review.

(01:01:10):
The challenge with those is thatyou don't get to interact with
those customers and coax them toask them questions to elicit
the best testimonial content,like what was the exact problem
you were experiencing beforehand?
How is it affecting your life?
You know how specifically hasour product or service or

(01:01:34):
program helped you and you knowwhat's changed in your life now.
So if you do that kind oftestimonial, which you know
tends to be more convincing, thebest would be to have a video
testimonial.
But if you can't have that,then at least show the person's
headshot, provide their fullname.
And then what also can make itmore believable if it's B2C is

(01:01:57):
to just put their city and state.
But if it's B2B, then you wantto have their title and their
company and so you know allthose things and obviously a
first and last name.
So all those things make itmore believable.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
I love that, so I do have a question, as we are
getting close to time here.
What are five common mistakesthat hurt conversion rates?

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
that hurt conversion rates?
Sure Okay.
So one is relying too much onadjectives instead of verbs.
So a lot of times when I seecopy or clients come to me with
their copy, it'll say this isthe most innovative,
groundbreaking method on themarket or on the planet.
Right, and that just soundslike bragging and hyperbole.
It doesn't really convincepeople.
So it would be better to focuson verbs instead of adjectives

(01:02:54):
like this Stop wasting time onminutia.
Automate 70% of your operations.
Spend more quality time withyour family instead of at your
office.
See, each one of those startswith a verb Stop wasting time,
automate, spend more time.
So that's one.

(01:03:15):
Another one is focusing too muchon the process or deliverables
that they're going to get.
So let's say you have some kindof a program with eight
sessions.
You don't want to focus toomuch on the number of sessions
and how long they last and thefact that there's a private
community or how many pdfsthey're going to get.
That's not.
That's really not thatcompelling.

(01:03:35):
You do mention it down lower inyour sales page, but it's much
more compelling to talk aboutthe result.
So, for example, earlier Imentioned in the case of a
relationship coach, the resultmight be be valued by people you
love, not frustrated,disappointed or taken for
granted.
You want to be focusing on theresults and benefits.

(01:03:58):
Another mistake is to talk toomuch about I and we.
So you know, if you're somekind of a health coach, a
mistake would be to lead with.
I believe in healingholistically and I have three
certifications.
Right, that's all about you.
That's not the benefit to theperson in it for them, and focus

(01:04:31):
on the word you and your.
So it could be.
Are you tired of living withjoint pain?
Be free of your pain withoutexpensive drugs or dangerous
side effects.
So we had the word you and theword you're in there.
Another one would be lack ofword pictures.
So instead of just telling you,know, you'll have less pain,
that's telling show, won't it begreat to keep gardening,

(01:04:52):
dancing and playing on the floorwith your grandkids when you're
80 years old, instead of beingconfined to a chair?
So those are the word pictures.
And the last one is notdescribing the negative ripple
effects of inaction or ofchoosing the wrong solution.

(01:05:13):
So the mistake would be justsaying, without this, you could
become deficient in vitamin B12.
Okay, well, that is a negativeeffect, but what are the ripple
effects.
What are the domino effects andthat would be?
Without this, you could loseyour memory or balance, you
could fall and break a hip,crippling you for the rest of
your life and making you aburden to your adult children.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
That's good.
I like that Well.
Thank you for sharing, Trevor.
Is there anything else that youwanted to make sure we covered
before we get out of here thatwe didn't cover, and kind of the
roundabout way that we workedthrough it today?

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Yeah, I just want to let your listeners know that
they can get a free critiquejust by coming to our website,
marketingexpertscom.
I know yours ismarketingsecretscom so they're
similar, but yeah, if you visitmarketingexpertscom, you can ask
for a free critique of any copythat you have.
There's no obligation, there'sno cost.
It's just a good way to findout how we can help you.

(01:06:16):
And even if you don't hire us,that's okay.
You know, I believe in payingit forward and you can run with
the suggestions we make andimprove your conversion rates.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Awesome.
Well, trevor, thank you so muchfor coming on.
It was really insightful.
I think a lot of people cantake away some actionable steps,
so thank you for sharing somuch.
I encourage everybody to go tomarketingexpertscom.
Trevor's been around in theindustry a long time.
He's one of the proven pillarsof the digital marketing space.

(01:06:46):
So, trevor, thank you so muchfor coming on and until the next
time, my name is Matt Bertram.
Bye-bye for now.

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