Courageous conversations and addressing blind spots are key for leaders to overcome challenges and unlock potential. In this episode, Adrian Koehler highlights authentic communication, emotional intelligence, and marketing strategies.
• The power of courageous conversations
• Overcoming leadership blind spots
• How the "law of deservingness" affects self-sabotage
• Genuine connection in coaching
• Standing out in digital marketing
• Aligning authenticity with audience engagement
• Coaching for true transformation
• Difficult discussions that drive growth
—--
Guest Contact Information:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/adriankoehler
- https://www.instagram.com/adrian.k
—----------
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host.
Matt Bertram, to continue ourseries of the movers and shakers
that are going on in theindustry, brought somebody no
better than a business coach.
Matt Bertram, to continue ourseries of the movers and shakers
that are going on in theindustry, brought somebody no
better than a business coach.
An executive coach worked withsome of the top brands Adrian
(00:37):
Kaler with Take New Ground dotcom.
He's worked with Nike,oppenheimer, broadcom, goldcorp
I mean the list goes on.
It's super impressive.
You've coached some of the topexecutives dealing with conflict
, all kinds of things, fromtransitions, exits, all over the
place.
So, adrian, just credentializeyourself real quick and we can
(01:07):
get into some of some of theseissues that maybe, uh, the
audience is dealing with.
We got a lot of, uh, otheragency owners that that listen
uh, as well as, um, uh, smallbusinesses and large businesses.
Uh, we're, we got a pretty uhwide variety of listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So that's great, matt .
Great to have me on.
Thank you.
Thank you really appreciate it.
I love what I do.
I get to help very ambitious,brilliant people generate
results that for some reason forlots of reasons there are
things in the way that theycan't see.
So I come in and just decodeall that and help them
understand what they're notseeing.
(01:38):
And it's a series of inquiries.
I've been doing this for a longtime 15 years.
I've been in the peoplebusiness forever and the through
line for my whole career isbeing with people in moments of
crisis and helping them takecourageous action.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I love that.
Take courageous action.
You know that's one of thebiggest things Like if you don't
step out there and really takemassive action in what you're
doing, you're not going to movethe needle.
Like you know, people are at akind of a point where you got to
get that momentum going.
You got to get the ball rollingon some stuff and you got to
(02:11):
break through different layers.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah Well, because people we can't, we don't know
what we don't know, right, weknow what we, we know what we
don't.
Sorry, we know what we don'tknow, we know what we know, but
we don't know what we don't know.
Does that?
make sense, so it's like thereare invisible things I was
saying earlier that are in theway for folks and we're like.
You know the whole old metaphorit's like the fish can't see
(02:34):
the water that they're swimmingin.
Because it's my perspective.
Humans don't often questiontheir own perspective because
they can't see it, because it'sso them.
They've had it forever.
I'm 44.
I've had my view of the worldfor 44 years.
(02:58):
I don't know other views of theworld unless I get really
curious about it and ask myselfcertain questions and then are
willing to insult my previouscertainty.
And we all have things we knoware true quote unquote know are
true.
That's our previous certaintyand that's what's in our way.
So you have to have someonethat's willing to offend you,
are willing to question you outof love.
Hopefully.
That's how.
That's the way we do it.
We call it fierce advocacy isthat we get really clear on the
future that the person or theteam or the company's committed
(03:19):
to, and then we get really soberabout reality and that's and
and the future they're committedto and the current reality are
not as close as they think.
It's much farther than theythink, which is offensive and
might even be despairing forfolks.
But if they've got the righttools in place and they build
(03:40):
the right culture, then that'sreally thrilling for folks.
But you know, we don't learnthis stuff in business school.
We don't learn this stuff, youknow, reading a book necessarily
, because that's just content.
We don't get connected to ourcontext and how we're seeing the
world.
So that's that usually is whatgenerates the breakthrough for
folks.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, I think that a lot of people do have
blinders on for whatever,whatever they're not seeing and
whatever's not happening, orwhatever is happening and why
it's happening right.
So you have those blinders andgetting that perspective on that
, I think it's good to say, hey,this is going to be a hard
conversation.
Before it's a hard conversation, I think calling it out is
(04:20):
really, really important so theycan brace themselves, I guess.
But you're not sugarcoating it.
How do you evaluate that?
When you start to work withsomebody to give them that
third-party perspective, I guessthey first have to accept it.
I need this.
How do you approach thatrelationship to get into that
(04:44):
place with somebody?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, that would be one of my specialties, I would
say, at least on my team, and itsets me apart, you know, in my
experience in the industry andhard to scale for folks.
But the principle there is thatif you can understand someone's
pain and put language to itbetter than they can, you win.
So we all have difficulties andas human beings we want less of
(05:12):
them.
And so there are things wechoose not to notice.
We don't know, we're choosingnot to notice.
It's almost subconscious for us.
It's just what we're avoiding,what we're omitting, what we're
just choosing not to see, andwe're definitely choosing not to
see the implications.
So, for example, let's sayyou're running an agency and
you've got five people that youwork with and you know in your
(05:36):
heart of hearts that the firstperson you hired, who's your
buddy, isn't doing it.
They're not delivering andprobably they can't, probably
the business has outgrown them.
But you're not saying okay, howmuch time and energy is this
costing me?
You know kind of carrying, youknow Todd around or whoever
works for you.
(05:56):
You know carrying him aroundand like paying him for really
not doing much.
How much time and energy isthis costing me over the next
five years.
Most folks don't ask themselvesthat question, but that's a lot
of pain, you know meaning.
Like that's bad, quote, unquotebad.
And if I consider that, then itprovokes me to have the
conversation that I'm unwillingto have with Todd or whatever
(06:18):
you know.
It's like I don't know if thisis a good fit.
I care about you, man, but thisis.
I think it's time, you know,and there's loving ways to have
tough conversations which Ialways, you know, commit to have
with folks because they they,they get it that I'm there for
them.
I'm not like pointing this outas a gotcha moment.
I understand that life's tough.
(06:40):
We all want to.
We have what we call foursurvival needs looking good,
feeling good, being right, beingin control.
Those are gravity for the humanbeing.
We all want to do those thingsat all times and it's a
different volume level fordifferent folks.
Some folks, you know, if you'relistening, you're thinking
about who in your life reallywants to look good, who in your
life really wants to feel good,who in your life really wants to
(07:00):
be right, who in your lifereally wants to be in control.
We all have those things, somepeople more than others.
So I know that when I'm talkingto somebody, so I know that
like a touchy quote, unquotetouchy conversation is going to
illuminate that.
But I I get that if I'm withthem in the fall, the fall is
easier.
(07:21):
The fall meaning like movingfrom out of ego and like how
they look and and they get thefact that it's like, yeah, man,
you're, you're really lying alot Like you're full of it.
It's okay, it's okay Now.
Do you want to sleep better atnight, is the question.
Do you want to be more proud?
Do you want to be more proud ofyourself?
Do you want to have actualtrust and connection on your
(07:41):
team?
Yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Then you got to be messier than you want to be.
Man.
Adrian, you're like going intothe wounds right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, I mean, for a lot of people that's like heavy
stuff.
For me it's.
It's liberation, man, if I can,if, uh, you know, uh, what did
Young say?
Carl Young, you know verypopular psychotherapist.
He said if you want yourbranches to go to heaven, your
roots must go to hell.
Which is like if you want theglory, you got to touch all the
(08:14):
stuff you don't want to touch.
But if we do, but we live insuch an honor shame conversation
like either I'm good or I'm bad, or it just is Like if we get
out of the assessment or get outof the like moralization of
what should be happening and howshould I be, and how do I make
my dad proud, blah, blah, blah.
Whatever your story is, get outof that.
Just befriend current reality.
(08:35):
It's okay, whatever's happeningis perfect.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So, adrian, I'm going to throw this out there and you
may not have heard of it.
This was like a PhD, liketherapist guy talked about
something called the law ofdeservingness.
Have you ever heard this?
Nope, okay.
So like, based upon whateveranybody thinks of themselves,
right, that once they get tothat certain place, they
(09:01):
self-sabotage because they andit's probably called something,
you probably have it, it'scalled something else, but but
essentially they self-sabotageto fall below that line because
they don't want to rise above it, because they have some, they
have some kind of internal fearthat it's literally they.
There's this law of deservenessand and you've got to break,
(09:23):
you've got to break some ofthose wounds to break, you got
to break some of those wounds,you got to address some of those
things to break out of itbecause you don't think you
deserve that much, right?
So, like, if you have this kindof success, you, you
self-sabotage.
I don't know yeah, what became?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
it became vogue, I don't know, 10 years ago, to
start talking about the impostersyndrome.
That's what became very popularand which is?
I call that a racket.
Racket meaning like atransaction I'm having with
reality, with myself, right, andit's under the table, right.
(09:59):
So if I say I can't surpassthis law of deservedness or I've
got the imposter syndrome, well, and people will complain about
that, like I don't want to haveit, but there's so many payoffs
, so many payoffs to like thislaw of deservedness or this
imposter syndrome.
This is why you know me and mybusiness partners.
We cut our teeth in the workingin the criminal justice system.
(10:22):
So you know I've been doingthis work with executives.
15 years before that, I workedwith murderers in prison and
that's when I hired a guy nameddan tacchini, who's my partner,
who's 70 years old, who'sbrilliant um, and he'd been
doing work in the criminaljustice system where if, if
someone had gone through histraining, the chances of that
(10:45):
person coming back to prisongoes from 98% down to 12%.
So they call that therecidivism rate, like if you get
out how much, what's thepercentage you'll come back.
Because prisons is a criminalfactory.
It's not like a rehabilitationcenter.
They train people how to becriminals because of the context
(11:05):
, and so we know.
I mean here's a saying in ourbecause of that work.
A saying in our, in our worktoday, is all of us are
criminals and some of us arejust more arrestable than others
.
So I know that if someone ishiding behind the law of
deservedness, they're lying tothemselves I either being
(11:27):
criminal and they're lying toother people.
Now a therapist will say oh,isn't that an excuse to not
write on whatever they want todo, and yeah, I mean a therapist
that believes in Freud will say, oh, isn't that hard, I'm so
sorry it's in that hard.
And I'll say, oh, you're fullof shit, man, it's okay.
You know, if you want to getpast it, let's just.
(11:50):
Let's act like the law ofdeservingness is bullshit, you
know.
Let's say that's what you useto justify your lack of action.
Is there anything worth puttingyourself at stake?
That'd be my question.
For the person let's say youfail, let's say, let's say
you're not worth it.
Who gives a shit?
Who decided that anyway?
Was that god?
Was that your family of origin?
(12:11):
Was that culture?
Who?
Who's running your life?
Man, you or other people?
Let's talk about it.
You know that, because that'sthe core conversation about
where they decide.
I mean, who gets to decide whatthey're worth?
You know.
So it's really odd, because Iwork with all business leaders,
but we go here because this isthe core of everything.
(12:33):
This is like human stuff and weact like business is
transactional and what's thestrategy and what's the plan?
That's cool, but it's always ahuman being behind what's
possible.
And I stand with folks toredefine what's possible, which
is risky, which will put peopleinto survival, which is if
people don't know how to managetheir own mentality, they're in
(12:54):
trouble.
It shuts down possibility forthem.
So I'm provoking what'spossible for them.
I mean, I'll often say topeople in a seminar or in a
one-on-one conversation I'll say, listen, you're going to fight
for what's not possible, I'mgoing to fight for what is
possible.
Who do you want to win?
(13:14):
Which is obviously an unfairgambit.
The answer is me.
But you know they show up andthey start to explore things and
then in detail, explore what'snecessary, what's's wanted,
needed to make that thing happen, which is usually conversations
.
They don't want to have actions, they don't want to take, you
(13:35):
know, responsibility.
They don't want to.
You know, uh, consider and uh,but if they do all those things,
man, things just open, wide upfascinating, fascinating,
(13:57):
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So can you give me some examples of like stories,
that that where you've addressedthese deep issues and it's just
unlocked, uh, like all?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
this potential, sure?
Well, the first one that comesto mind.
Obviously I'll leave names andcompany yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, you know, I got called in,let's see, had this work.
I was coaching a gal at Nike.
Her significant other wasworking at this company and and
worked for the COO of this.
(14:24):
Well, I guess the head ofoperations of this company.
She wasn't COO yet.
I coached her so she became COOand there was a new CEO at that
company and the CTO this is alittle bit complicated, I guess
who was also the founder wasreally struggling, if that makes
sense.
So there's a founder who's thesmartest one of the smartest
(14:46):
engineers in the world hadfounded this company.
There was a new CEO and we satdown together to talk about how
this guy was struggling.
Cool, so hear all that.
The next step is for me to talkto this guy.
I talked to this guy, brilliantguy, and he's very confessional
.
He's very buttoned up.
(15:07):
He's an engineer, right, sohe's like hyper left-brained.
But in my conversation with himwe get to the point where he's
in tears.
That's not the point to be intears, but he's like feeling the
fact that he's killing thething he's built.
And this is like a world-class,well-known company.
We connect, we started doingsome coaching work together.
(15:27):
Um, things open up for himEventually.
Maybe to your point earlier.
Eventually he actually wants torun the company but he hadn't
yet owned the fact that he coulddo it.
He was just kind of smart techguy and you know, eventually
helped him run the company and,you know, opened up that whole
conversation for him, ended upworking, you know, on multi
(15:50):
levels, multi layers, you know,to help this company be
successful, you know.
So that's kind of you know allstarts at a patio talking about
real stuff like what's reallygoing on, which even you know I
was a stranger to him when weshook hands.
But you know, 40 minutes laterwe're in the most vital, one of
the most vital conversations inhis life.
(16:12):
But most folks won't press intothat.
Most folks are going to liketalk about, you know org
structure and you know originstory all day long.
Instead of what someone'scommitted to, you know we are
annoyingly committed to thefuture at Take New Ground.
You know we just.
You know your history isinteresting to you, for sure,
and might be resourceful, butit's all about how you relate to
(16:33):
your history.
That makes it helpful, makes itresourceful.
Otherwise, your history is yourfavorite excuse, because who
cares what happened yesterdayexcept for you?
But how are you using yesterdayand what's the impact of that
on the future?
So we're annoyingly cut throughall the you know complexity or
you know complications.
(16:53):
I would call it more thancomplexity because things are
naturally complex, but they'recomplicated when human beings
get involved, because we throwour emotions into everything and
our significances andeverything and all that kind of
stuff.
So we will absorb thecomplexity but really diminish
the complications.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Why do you think these kind of conversations are
so hard for people to have likeday to day?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh, cause we don't want to die as human beings.
You know death, death is theultimate right.
Um, you know it's like we're.
We're all going to end up dying, matt, matt, you're going to
end up dying.
Everybody in our life's goingto end up dying.
My dog that's sitting next tome is going to die.
My kids are going to die.
All that's reality.
We're all going to die and wedon't want to face that.
(17:35):
And in the midst of all theselike transitions or you know
these, these moments in time, itis a reflection of the death,
of, like you know, and mostfolks don't believe in the power
of resurrection I do like dyingis actually the best thing.
Dying to a bad idea is the bestidea, but most folks want to
hold on for a long time to provethemselves right, and you can
(18:00):
either be right or be successful.
That's your call.
You know, if you're not, if youdon't believe that you are an
iterative process, and if youdon't believe that inside of
Adrian, inside of Matt, thereare several Matts, there's
several Adrian.
Some of them are awesome, someof them are productive, some of
them are generative andeffective, some of them aren't.
(18:22):
I know the versions of me thatdon't produce effective outcomes
.
And I know them, I can see themwhen they show up.
They show up as thinking and weare our ideas.
The ideas we have end upbecoming who we are.
So it's good to shine the lighton the versions of ourselves
that produce the futures wedon't want, and most folks don't
(18:46):
want to do that because theydon't want to.
I guess befriend the idea thatdying on a daily basis to our
bad ideas is the best idea.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So one of the quotes that you've said is most
coaching is bullshit.
Yeah.
Could you dig into that alittle bit more?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Everybody's listening knows exactly what I mean.
I mean you've probably metcoaches which are kind of like
guys in a really cheap suit.
You know that, worked at ibm orsomething and went to some
seminar somewhere and got somecertificate and can walk you
through a five-step process todo xyz, but they don't have any
guts, they won't take you whereyou're unwilling to go.
(19:31):
And so when I say most coachingis bullshit, it's because it
just treats symptoms or justadds ideas.
It's kind of like putting icingon a shit sandwich.
It's still a shit sandwich.
We got to take this thing apartand be brave enough to do the
harder work instead of trying tomake it seem better.
You know what I mean.
(19:51):
So it's like most folks treatsymptoms and that just.
You know that actuallysatisfied you could sell that
it's so great to sell, that youknow it's great to sell
solutions instead of getting tocausal issues.
That takes guts, that takestime, investment.
You know that.
You know that takes willingness, that takes courage and it's
(20:13):
easier not to.
You know, jump into thoseconversations.
I mean most coaches are greatpeople.
I mean I don't know many ofthem.
Um, I always get that questionabout hey, how many you know?
Question about other coaches.
I don't know any of thembecause they're just not my
people.
So most coaching is bullshitbecause it doesn't work.
And uh, you know, I've, I've,since I've been in this industry
(20:35):
for whatever 15 years.
Uh, back then it used to belike this distinction between
life coaches which, whateverthat is.
Yeah.
And, and you know executivecoaches, but most of them are
very you know what's the word Iwas going to say Paradigmatic.
I don't think that's a word,but they have some kind of
shtick that they do no matterwho walks into the room, instead
of dealing with what's thereand taking time and connecting
(20:58):
with the person and realizingevery person's background is
full of nuances that if youdon't know how to pay attention,
you won't catch it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
No, I, I, I do know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm not going to speak to it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Um, uh, yeah, I don't .
I I'm not going to speakdirectly to it, but I can tell
you that, um, my, uh, mybusiness partner was coached for
a number of years by a, abusiness coach that certainly
had a certain methodology that,no matter who walked into the
(21:37):
room, they that's they did thesame thing.
Yeah.
That's right, and and it was,you know it.
It worked for him, I guess.
I don't know, but it yeah, Ican tell you.
I went to one of the meetingsand I was pretty taken back by
uh, there was, there was nolevel of connection, there was
(21:58):
no customization.
It was kind of like a scriptthat just went down the list and
said, okay, okay, okay, okay,all right, cool, here's, here's
here's here here.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I flash.
I flash back to like 1986 maybe, when I'm six years old and
remember those like Play-Dohthings.
Remember Play-Doh was like cooland you put the put the
Play-Doh in the thing and youjust squish it down.
It's just such like a, it's afactory.
It's like okay, here's mycontext, all right, so here's my
content, here's what I do.
Here's my formula for success,or whatever they'll call it to
sell it.
Here's my formula.
Let me just put you in this,and then here's the outcome.
(22:37):
Well it was a franchise.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So it was a franchise business coach.
So that's all I'm going to say.
Okay, so you've developed,probably some methodologies that
you use loosely right likethere's got to be a path,
there's got to be buoys sure youfollow.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Well, there are print , there are principles that
guide us.
There's principles that guideus.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yes, could you?
Could you kind of open, openthe door on that a little bit?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
sure?
Uh, it won't sound thatsophisticated in this context,
but I'll let you know theprinciples that guide us.
Let's see.
I mean, first thing isobviously the future, as I've
already talked about.
So we get the future crystalclear and if I'm asking
questions about the future, allof the BS is going to hit the
(23:28):
table immediately, because thereare not only there are gaps in
what's missing, but there's alsotons of reasons why there are
gaps, which is where all the BSis.
And when I say BS, I don'tjudge it, I just like it's just
so inauthentic and it's notproductive.
So even if we just get in areally authentic conversation
about what somebody wants and wejust call vision is a future
worth having.
(23:48):
So that's what vision is for us.
Like what do we really want?
Like not like what do you want?
But what do you like reallywant?
Like, not like.
I rarely talk about goals withmy clients because goals are
usually notions that would begreat, instead of something that
one is committed to, becausethere are things that they
really want that would requirecourage and would require them
(24:11):
to actually manage leadchallenge, maybe fire or
whatever ie risk.
There's like lots of dragons onthat quest that they might not
want to face.
So it's good to illuminate allthat and just put our arms
around all that.
You know it's like, just acceptall that, like yes, okay,
here's what I really want andhere's all the stuff I've told
myself up until now I shouldn'thave to deal with, which is how
(24:35):
most leaders talk about it, likeI just shouldn't have to
babysit these people.
They're professionals, I paythem a lot of money, blah, blah,
blah, and therefore I takemyself out of the responsibility
of being a leader, which is totransform people.
Most people think leadership isto get somewhere.
No, leadership is to generateresults through other people.
So their complications,whatever's going on for them, is
(24:56):
on you.
That's your job.
You got to illuminate that andknow how to navigate it.
Most folks don't know how tonavigate it, so they don't
illuminate it.
So first thing is we get thefuture really clear.
Second is we get currentreality really sober.
So what's happening now?
Not what you tell yourinvestors, not what you tell
your board, not what you tellyour wife at home what's really
(25:16):
going on?
And we think about it throughthis paradigm.
So let's see, if we were in aseminar, I'd draw on the board P
plus E, plus O over C.
Word p plus e, plus o over c.
(25:36):
So that is pat, p is thepatterns, because we're all
patterned people.
We all have ways in which wethink and do and behave and
result and all that kind ofthings.
Those are all patterns.
Most folks aren't aware ofthose things.
It's good to know them and Ican help folks see their
patterns.
Um, o, o is is omissions.
There are things and when we'recommunicating there are things
in which we don't share, andsome of them we're conscious of,
(26:01):
some of them we're unconsciousof.
My job is to turn the lights on.
Let's talk about it.
And how do we omit those things?
Because we emphasize the E isemphasis.
And how do we omit those things?
Because we emphasize the E isemphasis.
We emphasize on whatever thething is like, the quarterly
numbers or the market trends orthe blah, blah, blah, whatever
that we spend time.
It's kind of like look at thisand don't look at this.
There's always emphasis,there's always omission.
(26:23):
So we illuminated all that allover.
What makes that meaningful isall over context, meaning what
the aim is.
So once we've got the visionclear, I can understand not only
the current reality of thebusiness, but also the current
reality of the person, and thatwill illuminate the gap by which
we will then be venturing.
So that's kind of the, that'sthe conversational process.
(26:47):
That's what's happening.
They're not that aware of it asI am, but that's how I'm
listening.
When I'm on a phone call withsomebody or in a meeting with
somebody, I'm listening forthose things, because the
breakthroughs happen in thosemoments of revelation.
I guess I'd call it I'm notthere teaching stuff.
I could teach stuff all daylong, but it won't make a
difference.
Even though it might becompelling and very inspiring
(27:08):
and very impressive, it justwon't make a difference.
They have to come to their ownrevelation self-revelation yeah,
which is distinct from you know, learning or insight.
It's like, oh shit, I know this.
Now I can't go back fromknowing this.
You know, and that's what I'm.
That's what we're always goingfor is like epiphany level work
(27:28):
with people, with people's.
Why most coaching?
Because they do thatmechanistic thing that you're
describing.
There's no revelation in thereat all.
They're just maybe learningsomething which doesn't change a
human being.
Think about the book you read 10years ago.
You can't, because you don'teven know what it was, because
it didn't matter, it didn'tchange your life.
(27:50):
We're going for that.
So that's what we're up to, andit comes from a type of
listening.
So there's like three otherkind of principles always going
on behind the scenes for us,which the first one is that
people react to the worldaccording to the way the world
occurs to them.
People react to the worldaccording to the way the world
(28:10):
occurs to them.
People react to the worldaccording to the way the world
occurs to them.
So you know who?
Was it?
Benjamin Franklin or somebody?
Perceptions reality.
True, the way I see things.
I think that's the way that itis and we're not apt to question
ourselves, because that's theway we see things and this is
what I think, this is what Iwant, this is what I know, this
is what I need.
We just live in that paradigm.
(28:31):
So that's the first thing.
People react according to theway the world occurs for them.
Secondly, the world occurs forpeople in language.
So I am always in aconversation with a client,
potential client, whomever.
I'm listening to them in waysno one else probably has ever
listened to them.
I'm really paying attention,because their language will
(28:55):
reveal their paradigm, the waythe world occurs to them.
And there are things.
Always when I'm talking tosomebody, there are things that
aren't working or things thataren't happening that they say
they want to have happening.
So that's the second thing theworld happens for us in language
.
The third one's where the moneyis.
Future-based language createspresent state.
(29:16):
Right, future-based languagecreates present state.
So we live into the future thatwe see coming always.
So if I say this meeting isgoing to suck, trust me, my
brain will do its job.
My brain will make sure I'mright.
Or if I say this person is ashyster, I will be listening for
(29:37):
the way the person's a shysterand even if they're generous and
sweet and caring, I won't evennotice that because it doesn't
show up according to my agenda,my agenda, which we don't own.
It like that.
My agenda is to prove myselfright.
Like the brain is a passivewriter, it follows your
intention, either conscious orunconscious.
So people live into the futurethey see coming.
(29:59):
So those are some principlesbehind our conversations, and
then we always just jump infresh years.
I don't know this person, Idon't know this background, but
we're going to get to realitypretty quickly.
So that's kind of the process.
Obviously, we have a lot ofthings we do with companies
based on what's wanted andneeded, but that's always where
we're coming from and that'swhat makes us both dangerous and
(30:20):
a great investment.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
No, I just enjoy listening to you.
I'm sure someone listeningdefinitely needs this
conversation, or?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I love to talk to anybody you know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Can you maybe describe some different examples
where where you could come inand offer a lot of help?
I know, uh, on your website, uh, one area is transitions, right
, um, from pre to post mergers.
Uh, high staff churn, founderexits.
(30:55):
You also talk about KPIs.
Um, you know, breaking downsilos, uh, investor tensions.
Can you just maybe break downsome scenarios of areas where it
makes sense to engage you?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, so we love working with founder-driven
companies.
We've worked with big Fortune500, fortune 100 companies, but
our favorites are to work withfounder-driven companies because
I think entrepreneurs are thebest.
Yeah, they're also the messiest, which makes them great.
You know they're alwaysbrilliant and action oriented
and spirited and usually verydramatic.
It's always fun.
(31:30):
Founder driven companies arethe best and you know they are
usually the less structured andyou know there's a lot of work
to do.
So we love working with thosetypes of companies because there
are some natural patterns Iwould say that come through
those companies, right.
So somebody starts something.
A founder, a brilliant personstarts something and let's say
(31:52):
they're successful.
They usually actually don'twant to run the company.
They were quote unquotesuccessful in starting.
That's like their dirty secret.
It's like I actually don't wantto be a CEO quote successful
and starting.
That's like their dirty secret.
It's like I actually don't wantto be a ceo.
I.
I rarely meet a founder thatactually wants to be ceo.
They just are.
And there's a lot ofconversations baked in that,
several layers to that, butthat's usually a conversation
we'll get into right away.
(32:13):
Because they don't want tomanage people, they don't want
to run meetings, they don't wantto run a pnl, they don't want
to do all these things, theyjust wanted, wanted to start the
thing.
They're like a pioneer andthere's usually these dynamics
where the pioneer, even thoughthey started this thing that's
successful, end up stillpioneering.
You know why they're a pioneerthey like starting things.
So there's usually lots ofdynamics between there's a
(32:36):
pioneer that's out here andthere's a home base that's here
and there's not a lot ofproductive conversation between
the two and typically a ton ofresentment.
So that creates the need for atleast two major things.
One is some agreement from bothparties about what's wanted and
needed to make these thingsconnected.
(32:57):
Also mostly not dealt with byconsultant types is the
relational dynamic, meaning ifyou've got a group that's
decided to resent a founder,that's a big deal to get under
the hood.
You know we don't talk aboutconcepts like forgiveness and
(33:18):
business very often, but we needto because that's usually
what's holding a business backfrom new results is the
willingness to say what needs tobe said and then get off it
like forgive a person, startfresh.
So you know there can be awhole.
I mean, everybody that'slistening knows what it's like
(33:40):
to be in a company where there'sso many elephants in every
meeting that nobody's talkingabout.
They're not talking about inthe meeting, because that would
take some courage.
They're talking about the watercooler.
They're talking about an email.
They're talking about it inSlack.
They're just not talking aboutit when it matters, which when
the other person is there,because folks don't have
character, you know.
But we'll call folks to getreally honest, which requires
(34:02):
character and integrity andauthenticity, and this whole
idea of like living your word.
Like you know, do I speak thetruth or do I not speak the
truth?
I only speak the truth when itserves me.
I don't speak the truth whenI'm at risk and that's back to
being just human stuff.
So, you know, we like workingwith those types of companies
(34:22):
because it's the very commonpatterns.
We've seen it hundreds of times.
We know what to do.
I mean everybody's distinct,but there are patterns at play
that always happen there.
You know, we worked in the bigcompanies and we usually end up
having this type oftransformation inside divisions,
you know.
So I coached dozens of ofleaders at Nike and they end up.
(34:44):
You know, I, I.
There was a big franchise firmcalled Korn Ferry that was
coaching all of Nike.
But then there was me.
That was like everybody had toget special uh approval to work
with me because the Korn Ferryperson was like in a suit and
stupid and a lot cheaper than me.
I was a lot cheaper than me, Iwas a lot more expensive, but
the results were worth it.
(35:04):
Right?
So they kept signing up for allthese, for all these things,
because, uh, you know, I endedup having the conversations the
corn fairy folk, the corn fairyperson, was unwilling to have.
So we, we only work with folksthat have guts.
They don't have to have gutswhen they talk to us, but they
have to be willing to have acourageous conversation,
otherwise it's just not worth it.
We won't take the money.
(35:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love it Welland I'm just compelled to say,
just cause I've been kind of,you know, soapboxing here and
every conversation I have with aclient, I don't know anything
and I can be wrong all the time.
You know, it's like I can makean assertion, make an assumption
and I'm pretty intuitive andI've been doing this a long time
and whatever.
But I can be wrong, I don'tknow.
(35:51):
I don't know, you know, but I'mreally curious and if I'm wrong
, tell me.
You know we get tons offeedback from our clients.
I don't want to come offarrogant, just like you know we
can miss it and that happens allthe time.
But you know my commitment isto at least leave an Adrian size
hole in the wall.
We're going to get somethingdone and you know you're not
(36:12):
going to like wonder if I'm allin or not or if my team is all
in.
We're just all in and so ifyou've got some kind of yearning
and desire for some new results, we'll make something happen so
, adrian, I want to transitionthis a little bit as we kind of
start to wrap up to digitalmarketing.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
So, um, really, a lot of the listeners uh, look at
digital marketing as a way togenerate new business online.
Right, that's really what we'respecializing in is lead
generation, and you know thethings that come to mind when,
when you've been talking, whichyou really uh some deep thought,
(36:49):
right, like, as, as you'retalking, I'm thinking about
thinking about some things, but,like, uh, you know, being
genuine online, right, like,that's one of the things that,
like you know, people areattracted to.
People.
They know like and trust, right, and, and being authentic, and
you know saying what you feel,and you know you need to be what
(37:10):
is it?
You need to be hot or cold, not, not lukewarm, right, right,
like, as the Bible verse says,and I think that too many people
are lukewarm, uh, and, andtheir message gets lost.
And so, if, if you were to kindof transition what you know
into, uh, people that are in theonline world, what would be
(37:34):
like a tip or something youwould give them to to help them
in what they're trying to do,because it's a one to many-many
kind of marketing orcommunication online?
yeah, like when they're talkingto the masses or when they're
talking to potential clientswell, yeah, I mean I think that
those are two separate things,right, but I think from the
(37:56):
advertising or the marketingstandpoint first, so you're
trying to attract new customersAre there any kind of tips there
?
And then maybe okay, whenyou're interacting on the sales
side.
So I'm really thinking on themarketing side, but I'd love to
hear both.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah Well, I'll just share how we think about it.
I mean, the principle thatcomes to mind first is you know,
stand out, stand out, you know,and my I and my I'll relate to
my business.
I could, like sell people theirbest life.
People want to buy that all daylong.
Uh, but we don't sell that.
We sell, hey, let's clean upyour and.
(38:32):
And that means we're gonnaconnect with less people.
We know that because a lot offolks don't want to deal with
what they know they need to dealwith.
They'd rather, you know, buysomething that's shiny than deal
with the you know the dirt.
Feels good, that's right.
But if you can, you know, ifyou can connect into those kind
(38:58):
of philosophical challenges ofpeople, the stuff even private,
like things people don't talkabout and if you can build trust
, there you've got.
I mean, this is how we builtour business.
We haven't spent really anymoney on zero money on like
advertising.
I mean we've got a video on thewebsite.
We paid some money to get made,but it's pretty robust.
(39:20):
If anybody watches it, you'llhear our true message, which
will ostracize a lot of people,which is totally cool with us.
We don't care.
If you don't want to deal withthe shit, great, save us time.
I don't even want to talk toyou.
I say that kind of brashly.
I just mean, like that's thegame we're going to play, that's
where we're going.
(39:40):
Might as well, talk about itright now.
You know like I get the whole.
You know, sell them what theywant, give them what they need.
And trust me, when I'm like ina conversation with a potential
client, I'm like very sweet andvery, you know, loving, and I
don't come out of the box likethis.
I was trying to give you guysas much value as possible and
get down to brass tacks, butvery warm, very connected, hear
(40:03):
all the stories, listen to itall.
But then at some point in aconversation, a sales
conversation, they're going tosay something and I'm probably
going to say to them if you werelying, would you want to know?
And that's a gambit.
They say yes, and then I offera contrarian view, which most
(40:25):
people in a sales conversationare not going to have, because
they want to protect what theywould call rapport.
But I want to build rapport soI can break it and build trust.
There's a distinction betweenrapport and trust.
Trust is I'm here, no matterwhat Rapport is.
Do you like me?
Rapport and trust Trust is I'mhere, no matter what Rapport is.
(40:46):
Do you like me?
So anyway, I would just say tofolks like you know, get
courageous in your approach andset yourself apart.
Like, don't go for the masses,go for folks that want what you
want and I don't know what thatis for folks that are listening.
But think about your reallyideal client and the type of not
only type of business they have.
Most people talk about that,but they don't talk about the
type of attitude they have.
Like, we have a very specificattitude.
We're working, we're dealing,we're wanting to work with and
(41:08):
we have to really filter forthat attitude, because if that
attitude's not there, then wecan't even do the process
because they're not going tohave the willingness to like
walk through the fire.
We're going to ask them to walkthrough.
So that would be my main thing,with hopefully, some helpful
thoughts along the way about howto think about it.
But I decided to get daring andat least run some tests on.
(41:30):
You know what happens if Idecide to set myself apart,
because most people in theonline marketing just as a whole
, it's a lot of cookie cutterstuff.
You know it's a lot of likeclickbait stuff and it's not a
lot of human stuff.
It's not a lot of cookie cutterstuff.
You know.
It's a lot of like clickbaitstuff and it's not a lot of
human stuff.
It's not a lot of get to theget.
You know, cut to the quick.
And so if you set yourselfapart that way, you know you're
going to catch some eyeballs.
I mean, how many ads do we, youknow, flip off of?
(41:52):
Because we're like, I know whatthis is.
It's just so.
There's just so much stuffthat's just done all the time
instead of something that'sactually capturing and speaks to
the audience at a place thatmost people won't speak to.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Oh, I like that.
I like that.
Well, adrian, if people want tohear more and and you, you, you
have such a warm and generaldemeanor, like if people want to
connect with you, like how,how's the best way for them to
find you?
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Sure, they can easily find me on Instagram, adriank.
Love to talk with anybody.
You can email me.
I'm sure my email address is onthe website
adriantakenewgroundcom.
Hit me up and let's just have aconversation.
If anybody's interested in thistype of work, I guess on a
couple fronts.
One is if you've got like abusiness that you care about and
things aren't where you want itto be, I'd love to explore what
(42:42):
that is and see if we can help.
If we don't think it's theright fit, I promise you we'll
tell you If even just you, as aleader, maybe you don't want to
transform a business, maybe youjust you know that you're under,
that you're underperforming,given your own view.
We've got, you know, these fourday-sites called the Revenant
(43:03):
Process.
You can go to Take New Groundand go to public trainings.
It'll show the Revenant, allthose that are above.
Or we've got a very kind ofmore specific business
leadership training called theIntrepid, which happens over
three weekends and you can signup for that.
So either way, love to have aconversation, help you figure
out what's right for you.
So just hit me upadriantakingthegroundcom or
(43:29):
adriank on instagram.
Love to have a conversationwith anybody.
Nothing's a waste of time.
If you're listening to thispodcast, you're my, you're my
people awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, adrian, thank you so much for your
conversation.
Uh, everyone.
Uh, if you're looking to growyour business with the largest,
most powerful tool on the planet, which is the internet, reach
out to EWR for more revenue.
And if you're dealing with someissues and you're not getting
there, reach out to Adrian.
Have a conversation with them.
Until the next time, everybody,my name is Matt Bertram.
(43:58):
Bye, bye-bye for now.
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
I am your host.
Matt Bertram, to continue ourseries of the movers and shakers
that are going on in theindustry, brought somebody no
better than a business coach.
Matt Bertram, to continue ourseries of the movers and shakers
that are going on in theindustry, brought somebody no
better than a business coach.
An executive coach worked withsome of the top brands Adrian
(00:37):
Kaler with Take New Ground dotcom.
He's worked with Nike,oppenheimer, broadcom, goldcorp
I mean the list goes on.
It's super impressive.
You've coached some of the topexecutives dealing with conflict
, all kinds of things, fromtransitions, exits, all over the
place.
So, adrian, just credentializeyourself real quick and we can
(01:07):
get into some of some of theseissues that maybe, uh, the
audience is dealing with.
We got a lot of, uh, otheragency owners that that listen
uh, as well as, um, uh, smallbusinesses and large businesses.
Uh, we're, we got a pretty uhwide variety of listeners.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So that's great, matt .
Great to have me on.
Thank you.
Thank you really appreciate it.
I love what I do.
I get to help very ambitious,brilliant people generate
results that for some reason forlots of reasons there are
things in the way that theycan't see.
So I come in and just decodeall that and help them
understand what they're notseeing.
(01:38):
And it's a series of inquiries.
I've been doing this for a longtime 15 years.
I've been in the peoplebusiness forever and the through
line for my whole career isbeing with people in moments of
crisis and helping them takecourageous action.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I love that.
Take courageous action.
You know that's one of thebiggest things Like if you don't
step out there and really takemassive action in what you're
doing, you're not going to movethe needle.
Like you know, people are at akind of a point where you got to
get that momentum going.
You got to get the ball rollingon some stuff and you got to
(02:11):
break through different layers.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah Well, because people we can't, we don't know
what we don't know, right, weknow what we, we know what we
don't.
Sorry, we know what we don'tknow, we know what we know, but
we don't know what we don't know.
Does that?
make sense, so it's like thereare invisible things I was
saying earlier that are in theway for folks and we're like.
You know the whole old metaphorit's like the fish can't see
(02:34):
the water that they're swimmingin.
Because it's my perspective.
Humans don't often questiontheir own perspective because
they can't see it, because it'sso them.
They've had it forever.
I'm 44.
I've had my view of the worldfor 44 years.
(02:58):
I don't know other views of theworld unless I get really
curious about it and ask myselfcertain questions and then are
willing to insult my previouscertainty.
And we all have things we knoware true quote unquote know are
true.
That's our previous certaintyand that's what's in our way.
So you have to have someonethat's willing to offend you,
are willing to question you outof love.
Hopefully.
That's how.
That's the way we do it.
We call it fierce advocacy isthat we get really clear on the
future that the person or theteam or the company's committed
(03:19):
to, and then we get really soberabout reality and that's and
and the future they're committedto and the current reality are
not as close as they think.
It's much farther than theythink, which is offensive and
might even be despairing forfolks.
But if they've got the righttools in place and they build
(03:40):
the right culture, then that'sreally thrilling for folks.
But you know, we don't learnthis stuff in business school.
We don't learn this stuff, youknow, reading a book necessarily
, because that's just content.
We don't get connected to ourcontext and how we're seeing the
world.
So that's that usually is whatgenerates the breakthrough for
folks.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, I think that a lot of people do have
blinders on for whatever,whatever they're not seeing and
whatever's not happening, orwhatever is happening and why
it's happening right.
So you have those blinders andgetting that perspective on that
, I think it's good to say, hey,this is going to be a hard
conversation.
Before it's a hard conversation, I think calling it out is
(04:20):
really, really important so theycan brace themselves, I guess.
But you're not sugarcoating it.
How do you evaluate that?
When you start to work withsomebody to give them that
third-party perspective, I guessthey first have to accept it.
I need this.
How do you approach thatrelationship to get into that
(04:44):
place with somebody?
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, that would be one of my specialties, I would
say, at least on my team, and itsets me apart, you know, in my
experience in the industry andhard to scale for folks.
But the principle there is thatif you can understand someone's
pain and put language to itbetter than they can, you win.
So we all have difficulties andas human beings we want less of
(05:12):
them.
And so there are things wechoose not to notice.
We don't know, we're choosingnot to notice.
It's almost subconscious for us.
It's just what we're avoiding,what we're omitting, what we're
just choosing not to see, andwe're definitely choosing not to
see the implications.
So, for example, let's sayyou're running an agency and
you've got five people that youwork with and you know in your
(05:36):
heart of hearts that the firstperson you hired, who's your
buddy, isn't doing it.
They're not delivering andprobably they can't, probably
the business has outgrown them.
But you're not saying okay, howmuch time and energy is this
costing me?
You know kind of carrying, youknow Todd around or whoever
works for you.
(05:56):
You know carrying him aroundand like paying him for really
not doing much.
How much time and energy isthis costing me over the next
five years.
Most folks don't ask themselvesthat question, but that's a lot
of pain, you know meaning.
Like that's bad, quote, unquotebad.
And if I consider that, then itprovokes me to have the
conversation that I'm unwillingto have with Todd or whatever
(06:18):
you know.
It's like I don't know if thisis a good fit.
I care about you, man, but thisis.
I think it's time, you know,and there's loving ways to have
tough conversations which Ialways, you know, commit to have
with folks because they they,they get it that I'm there for
them.
I'm not like pointing this outas a gotcha moment.
I understand that life's tough.
(06:40):
We all want to.
We have what we call foursurvival needs looking good,
feeling good, being right, beingin control.
Those are gravity for the humanbeing.
We all want to do those thingsat all times and it's a
different volume level fordifferent folks.
Some folks, you know, if you'relistening, you're thinking
about who in your life reallywants to look good, who in your
life really wants to feel good,who in your life really wants to
(07:00):
be right, who in your lifereally wants to be in control.
We all have those things, somepeople more than others.
So I know that when I'm talkingto somebody, so I know that
like a touchy quote, unquotetouchy conversation is going to
illuminate that.
But I I get that if I'm withthem in the fall, the fall is
easier.
(07:21):
The fall meaning like movingfrom out of ego and like how
they look and and they get thefact that it's like, yeah, man,
you're, you're really lying alot Like you're full of it.
It's okay, it's okay Now.
Do you want to sleep better atnight, is the question.
Do you want to be more proud?
Do you want to be more proud ofyourself?
Do you want to have actualtrust and connection on your
(07:41):
team?
Yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Then you got to be messier than you want to be.
Man.
Adrian, you're like going intothe wounds right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, I mean, for a lot of people that's like heavy
stuff.
For me it's.
It's liberation, man, if I can,if, uh, you know, uh, what did
Young say?
Carl Young, you know verypopular psychotherapist.
He said if you want yourbranches to go to heaven, your
roots must go to hell.
Which is like if you want theglory, you got to touch all the
(08:14):
stuff you don't want to touch.
But if we do, but we live insuch an honor shame conversation
like either I'm good or I'm bad, or it just is Like if we get
out of the assessment or get outof the like moralization of
what should be happening and howshould I be, and how do I make
my dad proud, blah, blah, blah.
Whatever your story is, get outof that.
Just befriend current reality.
(08:35):
It's okay, whatever's happeningis perfect.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So, adrian, I'm going to throw this out there and you
may not have heard of it.
This was like a PhD, liketherapist guy talked about
something called the law ofdeservingness.
Have you ever heard this?
Nope, okay.
So like, based upon whateveranybody thinks of themselves,
right, that once they get tothat certain place, they
(09:01):
self-sabotage because they andit's probably called something,
you probably have it, it'scalled something else, but but
essentially they self-sabotageto fall below that line because
they don't want to rise above it, because they have some, they
have some kind of internal fearthat it's literally they.
There's this law of deservenessand and you've got to break,
(09:23):
you've got to break some ofthose wounds to break, you got
to break some of those wounds,you got to address some of those
things to break out of itbecause you don't think you
deserve that much, right?
So, like, if you have this kindof success, you, you
self-sabotage.
I don't know yeah, what became?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
it became vogue, I don't know, 10 years ago, to
start talking about the impostersyndrome.
That's what became very popularand which is?
I call that a racket.
Racket meaning like atransaction I'm having with
reality, with myself, right, andit's under the table, right.
(09:59):
So if I say I can't surpassthis law of deservedness or I've
got the imposter syndrome, well, and people will complain about
that, like I don't want to haveit, but there's so many payoffs
, so many payoffs to like thislaw of deservedness or this
imposter syndrome.
This is why you know me and mybusiness partners.
We cut our teeth in the workingin the criminal justice system.
(10:22):
So you know I've been doingthis work with executives.
15 years before that, I workedwith murderers in prison and
that's when I hired a guy nameddan tacchini, who's my partner,
who's 70 years old, who'sbrilliant um, and he'd been
doing work in the criminaljustice system where if, if
someone had gone through histraining, the chances of that
(10:45):
person coming back to prisongoes from 98% down to 12%.
So they call that therecidivism rate, like if you get
out how much, what's thepercentage you'll come back.
Because prisons is a criminalfactory.
It's not like a rehabilitationcenter.
They train people how to becriminals because of the context
(11:05):
, and so we know.
I mean here's a saying in ourbecause of that work.
A saying in our, in our worktoday, is all of us are
criminals and some of us arejust more arrestable than others
.
So I know that if someone ishiding behind the law of
deservedness, they're lying tothemselves I either being
(11:27):
criminal and they're lying toother people.
Now a therapist will say oh,isn't that an excuse to not
write on whatever they want todo, and yeah, I mean a therapist
that believes in Freud will say, oh, isn't that hard, I'm so
sorry it's in that hard.
And I'll say, oh, you're fullof shit, man, it's okay.
You know, if you want to getpast it, let's just.
(11:50):
Let's act like the law ofdeservingness is bullshit, you
know.
Let's say that's what you useto justify your lack of action.
Is there anything worth puttingyourself at stake?
That'd be my question.
For the person let's say youfail, let's say, let's say
you're not worth it.
Who gives a shit?
Who decided that anyway?
Was that god?
Was that your family of origin?
(12:11):
Was that culture?
Who?
Who's running your life?
Man, you or other people?
Let's talk about it.
You know that, because that'sthe core conversation about
where they decide.
I mean, who gets to decide whatthey're worth?
You know.
So it's really odd, because Iwork with all business leaders,
but we go here because this isthe core of everything.
(12:33):
This is like human stuff and weact like business is
transactional and what's thestrategy and what's the plan?
That's cool, but it's always ahuman being behind what's
possible.
And I stand with folks toredefine what's possible, which
is risky, which will put peopleinto survival, which is if
people don't know how to managetheir own mentality, they're in
(12:54):
trouble.
It shuts down possibility forthem.
So I'm provoking what'spossible for them.
I mean, I'll often say topeople in a seminar or in a
one-on-one conversation I'll say, listen, you're going to fight
for what's not possible, I'mgoing to fight for what is
possible.
Who do you want to win?
(13:14):
Which is obviously an unfairgambit.
The answer is me.
But you know they show up andthey start to explore things and
then in detail, explore what'snecessary, what's's wanted,
needed to make that thing happen, which is usually conversations
.
They don't want to have actions, they don't want to take, you
(13:35):
know, responsibility.
They don't want to.
You know, uh, consider and uh,but if they do all those things,
man, things just open, wide upfascinating, fascinating,
(13:57):
fascinating.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So can you give me some examples of like stories,
that that where you've addressedthese deep issues and it's just
unlocked, uh, like all?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
this potential, sure?
Well, the first one that comesto mind.
Obviously I'll leave names andcompany yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah, you know, I got called in,let's see, had this work.
I was coaching a gal at Nike.
Her significant other wasworking at this company and and
worked for the COO of this.
(14:24):
Well, I guess the head ofoperations of this company.
She wasn't COO yet.
I coached her so she became COOand there was a new CEO at that
company and the CTO this is alittle bit complicated, I guess
who was also the founder wasreally struggling, if that makes
sense.
So there's a founder who's thesmartest one of the smartest
(14:46):
engineers in the world hadfounded this company.
There was a new CEO and we satdown together to talk about how
this guy was struggling.
Cool, so hear all that.
The next step is for me to talkto this guy.
I talked to this guy, brilliantguy, and he's very confessional
.
He's very buttoned up.
(15:07):
He's an engineer, right, sohe's like hyper left-brained.
But in my conversation with himwe get to the point where he's
in tears.
That's not the point to be intears, but he's like feeling the
fact that he's killing thething he's built.
And this is like a world-class,well-known company.
We connect, we started doingsome coaching work together.
(15:27):
Um, things open up for himEventually.
Maybe to your point earlier.
Eventually he actually wants torun the company but he hadn't
yet owned the fact that he coulddo it.
He was just kind of smart techguy and you know, eventually
helped him run the company and,you know, opened up that whole
conversation for him, ended upworking, you know, on multi
(15:50):
levels, multi layers, you know,to help this company be
successful, you know.
So that's kind of you know allstarts at a patio talking about
real stuff like what's reallygoing on, which even you know I
was a stranger to him when weshook hands.
But you know, 40 minutes laterwe're in the most vital, one of
the most vital conversations inhis life.
(16:12):
But most folks won't press intothat.
Most folks are going to liketalk about, you know org
structure and you know originstory all day long.
Instead of what someone'scommitted to, you know we are
annoyingly committed to thefuture at Take New Ground.
You know we just.
You know your history isinteresting to you, for sure,
and might be resourceful, butit's all about how you relate to
(16:33):
your history.
That makes it helpful, makes itresourceful.
Otherwise, your history is yourfavorite excuse, because who
cares what happened yesterdayexcept for you?
But how are you using yesterdayand what's the impact of that
on the future?
So we're annoyingly cut throughall the you know complexity or
you know complications.
(16:53):
I would call it more thancomplexity because things are
naturally complex, but they'recomplicated when human beings
get involved, because we throwour emotions into everything and
our significances andeverything and all that kind of
stuff.
So we will absorb thecomplexity but really diminish
the complications.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Why do you think these kind of conversations are
so hard for people to have likeday to day?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh, cause we don't want to die as human beings.
You know death, death is theultimate right.
Um, you know it's like we're.
We're all going to end up dying, matt, matt, you're going to
end up dying.
Everybody in our life's goingto end up dying.
My dog that's sitting next tome is going to die.
My kids are going to die.
All that's reality.
We're all going to die and wedon't want to face that.
(17:35):
And in the midst of all theselike transitions or you know
these, these moments in time, itis a reflection of the death,
of, like you know, and mostfolks don't believe in the power
of resurrection I do like dyingis actually the best thing.
Dying to a bad idea is the bestidea, but most folks want to
hold on for a long time to provethemselves right, and you can
(18:00):
either be right or be successful.
That's your call.
You know, if you're not, if youdon't believe that you are an
iterative process, and if youdon't believe that inside of
Adrian, inside of Matt, thereare several Matts, there's
several Adrian.
Some of them are awesome, someof them are productive, some of
them are generative andeffective, some of them aren't.
(18:22):
I know the versions of me thatdon't produce effective outcomes
.
And I know them, I can see themwhen they show up.
They show up as thinking and weare our ideas.
The ideas we have end upbecoming who we are.
So it's good to shine the lighton the versions of ourselves
that produce the futures wedon't want, and most folks don't
(18:46):
want to do that because theydon't want to.
I guess befriend the idea thatdying on a daily basis to our
bad ideas is the best idea.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So one of the quotes that you've said is most
coaching is bullshit.
Yeah.
Could you dig into that alittle bit more?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Everybody's listening knows exactly what I mean.
I mean you've probably metcoaches which are kind of like
guys in a really cheap suit.
You know that, worked at ibm orsomething and went to some
seminar somewhere and got somecertificate and can walk you
through a five-step process todo xyz, but they don't have any
guts, they won't take you whereyou're unwilling to go.
(19:31):
And so when I say most coachingis bullshit, it's because it
just treats symptoms or justadds ideas.
It's kind of like putting icingon a shit sandwich.
It's still a shit sandwich.
We got to take this thing apartand be brave enough to do the
harder work instead of trying tomake it seem better.
You know what I mean.
(19:51):
So it's like most folks treatsymptoms and that just.
You know that actuallysatisfied you could sell that
it's so great to sell, that youknow it's great to sell
solutions instead of getting tocausal issues.
That takes guts, that takestime, investment.
You know that.
You know that takes willingness, that takes courage and it's
(20:13):
easier not to.
You know, jump into thoseconversations.
I mean most coaches are greatpeople.
I mean I don't know many ofthem.
Um, I always get that questionabout hey, how many you know?
Question about other coaches.
I don't know any of thembecause they're just not my
people.
So most coaching is bullshitbecause it doesn't work.
And uh, you know, I've, I've,since I've been in this industry
(20:35):
for whatever 15 years.
Uh, back then it used to belike this distinction between
life coaches which, whateverthat is.
Yeah.
And, and you know executivecoaches, but most of them are
very you know what's the word Iwas going to say Paradigmatic.
I don't think that's a word,but they have some kind of
shtick that they do no matterwho walks into the room, instead
of dealing with what's thereand taking time and connecting
(20:58):
with the person and realizingevery person's background is
full of nuances that if youdon't know how to pay attention,
you won't catch it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
No, I, I, I do know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm not going to speak to it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Um, uh, yeah, I don't .
I I'm not going to speakdirectly to it, but I can tell
you that, um, my, uh, mybusiness partner was coached for
a number of years by a, abusiness coach that certainly
had a certain methodology that,no matter who walked into the
(21:37):
room, they that's they did thesame thing.
Yeah.
That's right, and and it was,you know it.
It worked for him, I guess.
I don't know, but it yeah, Ican tell you.
I went to one of the meetingsand I was pretty taken back by
uh, there was, there was nolevel of connection, there was
(21:58):
no customization.
It was kind of like a scriptthat just went down the list and
said, okay, okay, okay, okay,all right, cool, here's, here's
here's here here.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I flash.
I flash back to like 1986 maybe, when I'm six years old and
remember those like Play-Dohthings.
Remember Play-Doh was like cooland you put the put the
Play-Doh in the thing and youjust squish it down.
It's just such like a, it's afactory.
It's like okay, here's mycontext, all right, so here's my
content, here's what I do.
Here's my formula for success,or whatever they'll call it to
sell it.
Here's my formula.
Let me just put you in this,and then here's the outcome.
(22:37):
Well it was a franchise.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So it was a franchise business coach.
So that's all I'm going to say.
Okay, so you've developed,probably some methodologies that
you use loosely right likethere's got to be a path,
there's got to be buoys sure youfollow.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Well, there are print , there are principles that
guide us.
There's principles that guideus.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yes, could you?
Could you kind of open, openthe door on that a little bit?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
sure?
Uh, it won't sound thatsophisticated in this context,
but I'll let you know theprinciples that guide us.
Let's see.
I mean, first thing isobviously the future, as I've
already talked about.
So we get the future crystalclear and if I'm asking
questions about the future, allof the BS is going to hit the
(23:28):
table immediately, because thereare not only there are gaps in
what's missing, but there's alsotons of reasons why there are
gaps, which is where all the BSis.
And when I say BS, I don'tjudge it, I just like it's just
so inauthentic and it's notproductive.
So even if we just get in areally authentic conversation
about what somebody wants and wejust call vision is a future
worth having.
(23:48):
So that's what vision is for us.
Like what do we really want?
Like not like what do you want?
But what do you like reallywant?
Like, not like.
I rarely talk about goals withmy clients because goals are
usually notions that would begreat, instead of something that
one is committed to, becausethere are things that they
really want that would requirecourage and would require them
(24:11):
to actually manage leadchallenge, maybe fire or
whatever ie risk.
There's like lots of dragons onthat quest that they might not
want to face.
So it's good to illuminate allthat and just put our arms
around all that.
You know it's like, just acceptall that, like yes, okay,
here's what I really want andhere's all the stuff I've told
myself up until now I shouldn'thave to deal with, which is how
(24:35):
most leaders talk about it, likeI just shouldn't have to
babysit these people.
They're professionals, I paythem a lot of money, blah, blah,
blah, and therefore I takemyself out of the responsibility
of being a leader, which is totransform people.
Most people think leadership isto get somewhere.
No, leadership is to generateresults through other people.
So their complications,whatever's going on for them, is
(24:56):
on you.
That's your job.
You got to illuminate that andknow how to navigate it.
Most folks don't know how tonavigate it, so they don't
illuminate it.
So first thing is we get thefuture really clear.
Second is we get currentreality really sober.
So what's happening now?
Not what you tell yourinvestors, not what you tell
your board, not what you tellyour wife at home what's really
(25:16):
going on?
And we think about it throughthis paradigm.
So let's see, if we were in aseminar, I'd draw on the board P
plus E, plus O over C.
Word p plus e, plus o over c.
(25:36):
So that is pat, p is thepatterns, because we're all
patterned people.
We all have ways in which wethink and do and behave and
result and all that kind ofthings.
Those are all patterns.
Most folks aren't aware ofthose things.
It's good to know them and Ican help folks see their
patterns.
Um, o, o is is omissions.
There are things and when we'recommunicating there are things
in which we don't share, andsome of them we're conscious of,
(26:01):
some of them we're unconsciousof.
My job is to turn the lights on.
Let's talk about it.
And how do we omit those things?
Because we emphasize the E isemphasis.
And how do we omit those things?
Because we emphasize the E isemphasis.
We emphasize on whatever thething is like, the quarterly
numbers or the market trends orthe blah, blah, blah, whatever
that we spend time.
It's kind of like look at thisand don't look at this.
There's always emphasis,there's always omission.
(26:23):
So we illuminated all that allover.
What makes that meaningful isall over context, meaning what
the aim is.
So once we've got the visionclear, I can understand not only
the current reality of thebusiness, but also the current
reality of the person, and thatwill illuminate the gap by which
we will then be venturing.
So that's kind of the, that'sthe conversational process.
(26:47):
That's what's happening.
They're not that aware of it asI am, but that's how I'm
listening.
When I'm on a phone call withsomebody or in a meeting with
somebody, I'm listening forthose things, because the
breakthroughs happen in thosemoments of revelation.
I guess I'd call it I'm notthere teaching stuff.
I could teach stuff all daylong, but it won't make a
difference.
Even though it might becompelling and very inspiring
(27:08):
and very impressive, it justwon't make a difference.
They have to come to their ownrevelation self-revelation yeah,
which is distinct from you know, learning or insight.
It's like, oh shit, I know this.
Now I can't go back fromknowing this.
You know, and that's what I'm.
That's what we're always goingfor is like epiphany level work
(27:28):
with people, with people's.
Why most coaching?
Because they do thatmechanistic thing that you're
describing.
There's no revelation in thereat all.
They're just maybe learningsomething which doesn't change a
human being.
Think about the book you read 10years ago.
You can't, because you don'teven know what it was, because
it didn't matter, it didn'tchange your life.
(27:50):
We're going for that.
So that's what we're up to, andit comes from a type of
listening.
So there's like three otherkind of principles always going
on behind the scenes for us,which the first one is that
people react to the worldaccording to the way the world
occurs to them.
People react to the worldaccording to the way the world
(28:10):
occurs to them.
People react to the worldaccording to the way the world
occurs to them.
So you know who?
Was it?
Benjamin Franklin or somebody?
Perceptions reality.
True, the way I see things.
I think that's the way that itis and we're not apt to question
ourselves, because that's theway we see things and this is
what I think, this is what Iwant, this is what I know, this
is what I need.
We just live in that paradigm.
(28:31):
So that's the first thing.
People react according to theway the world occurs for them.
Secondly, the world occurs forpeople in language.
So I am always in aconversation with a client,
potential client, whomever.
I'm listening to them in waysno one else probably has ever
listened to them.
I'm really paying attention,because their language will
(28:55):
reveal their paradigm, the waythe world occurs to them.
And there are things.
Always when I'm talking tosomebody, there are things that
aren't working or things thataren't happening that they say
they want to have happening.
So that's the second thing theworld happens for us in language
.
The third one's where the moneyis.
Future-based language createspresent state.
(29:16):
Right, future-based languagecreates present state.
So we live into the future thatwe see coming always.
So if I say this meeting isgoing to suck, trust me, my
brain will do its job.
My brain will make sure I'mright.
Or if I say this person is ashyster, I will be listening for
(29:37):
the way the person's a shysterand even if they're generous and
sweet and caring, I won't evennotice that because it doesn't
show up according to my agenda,my agenda, which we don't own.
It like that.
My agenda is to prove myselfright.
Like the brain is a passivewriter, it follows your
intention, either conscious orunconscious.
So people live into the futurethey see coming.
(29:59):
So those are some principlesbehind our conversations, and
then we always just jump infresh years.
I don't know this person, Idon't know this background, but
we're going to get to realitypretty quickly.
So that's kind of the process.
Obviously, we have a lot ofthings we do with companies
based on what's wanted andneeded, but that's always where
we're coming from and that'swhat makes us both dangerous and
(30:20):
a great investment.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
No, I just enjoy listening to you.
I'm sure someone listeningdefinitely needs this
conversation, or?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
I love to talk to anybody you know.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Can you maybe describe some different examples
where where you could come inand offer a lot of help?
I know, uh, on your website, uh, one area is transitions, right
, um, from pre to post mergers.
Uh, high staff churn, founderexits.
(30:55):
You also talk about KPIs.
Um, you know, breaking downsilos, uh, investor tensions.
Can you just maybe break downsome scenarios of areas where it
makes sense to engage you?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, so we love working with founder-driven
companies.
We've worked with big Fortune500, fortune 100 companies, but
our favorites are to work withfounder-driven companies because
I think entrepreneurs are thebest.
Yeah, they're also the messiest, which makes them great.
You know they're alwaysbrilliant and action oriented
and spirited and usually verydramatic.
It's always fun.
(31:30):
Founder driven companies arethe best and you know they are
usually the less structured andyou know there's a lot of work
to do.
So we love working with thosetypes of companies because there
are some natural patterns Iwould say that come through
those companies, right.
So somebody starts something.
A founder, a brilliant personstarts something and let's say
(31:52):
they're successful.
They usually actually don'twant to run the company.
They were quote unquotesuccessful in starting.
That's like their dirty secret.
It's like I actually don't wantto be a CEO quote successful
and starting.
That's like their dirty secret.
It's like I actually don't wantto be a ceo.
I.
I rarely meet a founder thatactually wants to be ceo.
They just are.
And there's a lot ofconversations baked in that,
several layers to that, butthat's usually a conversation
we'll get into right away.
(32:13):
Because they don't want tomanage people, they don't want
to run meetings, they don't wantto run a pnl, they don't want
to do all these things, theyjust wanted, wanted to start the
thing.
They're like a pioneer andthere's usually these dynamics
where the pioneer, even thoughthey started this thing that's
successful, end up stillpioneering.
You know why they're a pioneerthey like starting things.
So there's usually lots ofdynamics between there's a
(32:36):
pioneer that's out here andthere's a home base that's here
and there's not a lot ofproductive conversation between
the two and typically a ton ofresentment.
So that creates the need for atleast two major things.
One is some agreement from bothparties about what's wanted and
needed to make these thingsconnected.
(32:57):
Also mostly not dealt with byconsultant types is the
relational dynamic, meaning ifyou've got a group that's
decided to resent a founder,that's a big deal to get under
the hood.
You know we don't talk aboutconcepts like forgiveness and
(33:18):
business very often, but we needto because that's usually
what's holding a business backfrom new results is the
willingness to say what needs tobe said and then get off it
like forgive a person, startfresh.
So you know there can be awhole.
I mean, everybody that'slistening knows what it's like
(33:40):
to be in a company where there'sso many elephants in every
meeting that nobody's talkingabout.
They're not talking about inthe meeting, because that would
take some courage.
They're talking about the watercooler.
They're talking about an email.
They're talking about it inSlack.
They're just not talking aboutit when it matters, which when
the other person is there,because folks don't have
character, you know.
But we'll call folks to getreally honest, which requires
(34:02):
character and integrity andauthenticity, and this whole
idea of like living your word.
Like you know, do I speak thetruth or do I not speak the
truth?
I only speak the truth when itserves me.
I don't speak the truth whenI'm at risk and that's back to
being just human stuff.
So, you know, we like workingwith those types of companies
(34:22):
because it's the very commonpatterns.
We've seen it hundreds of times.
We know what to do.
I mean everybody's distinct,but there are patterns at play
that always happen there.
You know, we worked in the bigcompanies and we usually end up
having this type oftransformation inside divisions,
you know.
So I coached dozens of ofleaders at Nike and they end up.
(34:44):
You know, I, I.
There was a big franchise firmcalled Korn Ferry that was
coaching all of Nike.
But then there was me.
That was like everybody had toget special uh approval to work
with me because the Korn Ferryperson was like in a suit and
stupid and a lot cheaper than me.
I was a lot cheaper than me, Iwas a lot more expensive, but
the results were worth it.
(35:04):
Right?
So they kept signing up for allthese, for all these things,
because, uh, you know, I endedup having the conversations the
corn fairy folk, the corn fairyperson, was unwilling to have.
So we, we only work with folksthat have guts.
They don't have to have gutswhen they talk to us, but they
have to be willing to have acourageous conversation,
otherwise it's just not worth it.
We won't take the money.
(35:29):
Yeah, yeah, no, I love it Welland I'm just compelled to say,
just cause I've been kind of,you know, soapboxing here and
every conversation I have with aclient, I don't know anything
and I can be wrong all the time.
You know, it's like I can makean assertion, make an assumption
and I'm pretty intuitive andI've been doing this a long time
and whatever.
But I can be wrong, I don'tknow.
(35:51):
I don't know, you know, but I'mreally curious and if I'm wrong
, tell me.
You know we get tons offeedback from our clients.
I don't want to come offarrogant, just like you know we
can miss it and that happens allthe time.
But you know my commitment isto at least leave an Adrian size
hole in the wall.
We're going to get somethingdone and you know you're not
(36:12):
going to like wonder if I'm allin or not or if my team is all
in.
We're just all in and so ifyou've got some kind of yearning
and desire for some new results, we'll make something happen so
, adrian, I want to transitionthis a little bit as we kind of
start to wrap up to digitalmarketing.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
So, um, really, a lot of the listeners uh, look at
digital marketing as a way togenerate new business online.
Right, that's really what we'respecializing in is lead
generation, and you know thethings that come to mind when,
when you've been talking, whichyou really uh some deep thought,
(36:49):
right, like, as, as you'retalking, I'm thinking about
thinking about some things, but,like, uh, you know, being
genuine online, right, like,that's one of the things that,
like you know, people areattracted to.
People.
They know like and trust, right, and, and being authentic, and
you know saying what you feel,and you know you need to be what
(37:10):
is it?
You need to be hot or cold, not, not lukewarm, right, right,
like, as the Bible verse says,and I think that too many people
are lukewarm, uh, and, andtheir message gets lost.
And so, if, if you were to kindof transition what you know
into, uh, people that are in theonline world, what would be
(37:34):
like a tip or something youwould give them to to help them
in what they're trying to do,because it's a one to many-many
kind of marketing orcommunication online?
yeah, like when they're talkingto the masses or when they're
talking to potential clientswell, yeah, I mean I think that
those are two separate things,right, but I think from the
(37:56):
advertising or the marketingstandpoint first, so you're
trying to attract new customersAre there any kind of tips there
?
And then maybe okay, whenyou're interacting on the sales
side.
So I'm really thinking on themarketing side, but I'd love to
hear both.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah Well, I'll just share how we think about it.
I mean, the principle thatcomes to mind first is you know,
stand out, stand out, you know,and my I and my I'll relate to
my business.
I could, like sell people theirbest life.
People want to buy that all daylong.
Uh, but we don't sell that.
We sell, hey, let's clean upyour and.
(38:32):
And that means we're gonnaconnect with less people.
We know that because a lot offolks don't want to deal with
what they know they need to dealwith.
They'd rather, you know, buysomething that's shiny than deal
with the you know the dirt.
Feels good, that's right.
But if you can, you know, ifyou can connect into those kind
(38:58):
of philosophical challenges ofpeople, the stuff even private,
like things people don't talkabout and if you can build trust
, there you've got.
I mean, this is how we builtour business.
We haven't spent really anymoney on zero money on like
advertising.
I mean we've got a video on thewebsite.
We paid some money to get made,but it's pretty robust.
(39:20):
If anybody watches it, you'llhear our true message, which
will ostracize a lot of people,which is totally cool with us.
We don't care.
If you don't want to deal withthe shit, great, save us time.
I don't even want to talk toyou.
I say that kind of brashly.
I just mean, like that's thegame we're going to play, that's
where we're going.
(39:40):
Might as well, talk about itright now.
You know like I get the whole.
You know, sell them what theywant, give them what they need.
And trust me, when I'm like ina conversation with a potential
client, I'm like very sweet andvery, you know, loving, and I
don't come out of the box likethis.
I was trying to give you guysas much value as possible and
get down to brass tacks, butvery warm, very connected, hear
(40:03):
all the stories, listen to itall.
But then at some point in aconversation, a sales
conversation, they're going tosay something and I'm probably
going to say to them if you werelying, would you want to know?
And that's a gambit.
They say yes, and then I offera contrarian view, which most
(40:25):
people in a sales conversationare not going to have, because
they want to protect what theywould call rapport.
But I want to build rapport soI can break it and build trust.
There's a distinction betweenrapport and trust.
Trust is I'm here, no matterwhat Rapport is.
Do you like me?
Rapport and trust Trust is I'mhere, no matter what Rapport is.
(40:46):
Do you like me?
So anyway, I would just say tofolks like you know, get
courageous in your approach andset yourself apart.
Like, don't go for the masses,go for folks that want what you
want and I don't know what thatis for folks that are listening.
But think about your reallyideal client and the type of not
only type of business they have.
Most people talk about that,but they don't talk about the
type of attitude they have.
Like, we have a very specificattitude.
We're working, we're dealing,we're wanting to work with and
(41:08):
we have to really filter forthat attitude, because if that
attitude's not there, then wecan't even do the process
because they're not going tohave the willingness to like
walk through the fire.
We're going to ask them to walkthrough.
So that would be my main thing,with hopefully, some helpful
thoughts along the way about howto think about it.
But I decided to get daring andat least run some tests on.
(41:30):
You know what happens if Idecide to set myself apart,
because most people in theonline marketing just as a whole
, it's a lot of cookie cutterstuff.
You know it's a lot of likeclickbait stuff and it's not a
lot of human stuff.
It's not a lot of cookie cutterstuff.
You know.
It's a lot of like clickbaitstuff and it's not a lot of
human stuff.
It's not a lot of get to theget.
You know, cut to the quick.
And so if you set yourselfapart that way, you know you're
going to catch some eyeballs.
I mean, how many ads do we, youknow, flip off of?
(41:52):
Because we're like, I know whatthis is.
It's just so.
There's just so much stuffthat's just done all the time
instead of something that'sactually capturing and speaks to
the audience at a place thatmost people won't speak to.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Oh, I like that.
I like that.
Well, adrian, if people want tohear more and and you, you, you
have such a warm and generaldemeanor, like if people want to
connect with you, like how,how's the best way for them to
find you?
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Sure, they can easily find me on Instagram, adriank.
Love to talk with anybody.
You can email me.
I'm sure my email address is onthe website
adriantakenewgroundcom.
Hit me up and let's just have aconversation.
If anybody's interested in thistype of work, I guess on a
couple fronts.
One is if you've got like abusiness that you care about and
things aren't where you want itto be, I'd love to explore what
(42:42):
that is and see if we can help.
If we don't think it's theright fit, I promise you we'll
tell you If even just you, as aleader, maybe you don't want to
transform a business, maybe youjust you know that you're under,
that you're underperforming,given your own view.
We've got, you know, these fourday-sites called the Revenant
(43:03):
Process.
You can go to Take New Groundand go to public trainings.
It'll show the Revenant, allthose that are above.
Or we've got a very kind ofmore specific business
leadership training called theIntrepid, which happens over
three weekends and you can signup for that.
So either way, love to have aconversation, help you figure
out what's right for you.
So just hit me upadriantakingthegroundcom or
(43:29):
adriank on instagram.
Love to have a conversationwith anybody.
Nothing's a waste of time.
If you're listening to thispodcast, you're my, you're my
people awesome.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, adrian, thank you so much for your
conversation.
Uh, everyone.
Uh, if you're looking to growyour business with the largest,
most powerful tool on the planet, which is the internet, reach
out to EWR for more revenue.
And if you're dealing with someissues and you're not getting
there, reach out to Adrian.
Have a conversation with them.
Until the next time, everybody,my name is Matt Bertram.
(43:58):
Bye, bye-bye for now.
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