July 10, 2025 • 59 mins
Jason Moss shares the CEO Freedom Formula, a powerful roadmap for scaling businesses through identity shifts and strategic improvements. The formula merges internal mindset work with external business strategy to help entrepreneurs break through revenue plateaus and experience sustainable growth.
• CEO Identity: changing your self-perception to match your desired business level
• The business you have is a mirror reflecting who you are as an entrepreneur
• Eliminate before you delegate to avoid building systems around unnecessary tasks
• Optimizing marketing requires balancing personal connection with scalable systems
• The three levels of entrepreneurial consciousness: willful, intellectual, and intuitive
• Success comes from making decisions as the person who's already achieved their goals
• Marketing is fundamentally about human connection, not complicated technical systems
• Personal brand and authenticity are becoming more crucial as AI-generated content proliferates
Guest Contact Information:
- jasonmoss.com
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH-cra7oIvEzolvMP4otesw
- http://go.jasonmoss.com/scaling-guide?source=UnknownSecretsPodcast
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing,
your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Howdy.
Welcome to another fun-filledepisode of the Unknown Secrets
of Internet Marketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram.
Today we're going to talk aboutgrowing a business, and that's
a little bit outside of my scope.
Yes and no, because, well, Ican help you grow their
marketing, I can help generateleads, I can help make sales,
(00:40):
but there are a lot of differentcomponents of growing a
business.
Also, there's a lot of peopleout there that are listening,
that do have their own agency,that might need some coaching,
and I thought it would be a goodidea to bring in a well-known
personal coach, jason Moss, totalk about the CEO freedom
formula and how to basicallyhelp people unlock what's going
(01:05):
on with them so that they canscale and grow.
And, as a lot of you know, I amgoing to be launching my own
coaching program, group coachingprogram, and I said by the end
of this month, so we're gettingdown to the wire here on what we
need to do, and so you know wecould also, jason, as one of the
top coaches, treat this as alive coaching session for me,
(01:27):
because, well, I put it all outthere, I tell everybody where
it's at.
If they can take what I shareand use it.
I want them to be helpful.
There is so much abundance inthis world and I want everybody
to win, so welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, thank you so much for having me and I
appreciate it.
I just want to yourvulnerability and bringing
people into that journey.
So much of marketing today isabout that.
It's about storytelling, it'sabout sharing the uncomfortable
process and journey of whatyou're going through.
So it takes a lot of courage todo that and I really admire you
and respect you for bringingyour audience into that as
(02:02):
you're walking through thejourney yourself for bringing
your audience into that asyou're walking through the
journey yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, thank you.
I mean, it's all I got right,like I only know as much as I
know, and this process continuesto grow me every day and every
experience, and I think thatthat authenticity is what you
have to have and that's whypeople do business with people
they know I can trust, andpodcasting is a great way.
Long form content is a greatway for someone to connect with
you on those terms.
(02:32):
I was actually just on a callbefore this with a podcast
listener that was asking forsome marketing advice and was
happy to get on the call andhe's actually doing some awesome
stuff and really excited forhim, and I was like, hey, I'll,
I'll, I'll, hire you, we can, we, I can be your guinea pig,
right?
um, I'm definitely down to helppeople out and, um, you know, I
(02:54):
am where I am, so I'm here, andI'm here with jason moss, so, uh
, welcome well, thank you, Iappreciate it well, let's start
with the CEO Freedom Formula,because that's one of the ways
that I kind of had connected toyour stuff and I know you're
well known for that and I thinkit would help a lot of people to
(03:14):
hear you explain it, not I.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah for sure, we can definitely dive into that.
So the CEO Freedom Formula is aroadmap for scaling and growing
a business formula is a roadmapfor scaling and growing a
business and it's a roadmap thatI discovered through mentoring
and coaching and working withover a thousand entrepreneurs in
all different niches everyonefrom solopreneurs, coaches,
consultants to folks runninglarger businesses and I
(03:40):
discovered it mostly through alot of trial and error.
And I spent the first few yearsof my journey as a coach very
much focused on helping peoplewith the external aspects of
their business, which was themarketing strategy, the offers,
the niche, all the things thatmost people come to, folks like
you and me thinking that theyneed, and those things are very
important.
(04:00):
But what I started to see wasthat I would give two people the
same strategy and they wouldget very different results.
And one person would take thatstrategy and they'd go out and
they double or triple theirbusiness and one person would
take the same tools and they'dend up exactly where they are
today, you know, six monthslater, and it used to frustrate
(04:21):
me as a coach.
I you know, for years I was likewhat am I missing?
And what became clear to meover time and really studying
the success of entrepreneurs andseeing what it was about was
really this merging between theinternal journey of
entrepreneurship, mindset,identity, the internal side and
then the external side.
(04:42):
And so the CEO Freedom Formulais really about bringing those
two things together and it'sabout recognizing that a
business is partially abouthaving the right strategy and
partially about becoming thekind of person who can not only
execute on that strategy butalso to be able to really hold
the level of business that we'relooking to create.
(05:03):
So that's a high level of whatit is.
We can definitely dive into it.
But there are these threepillars or steps of the CEO
freedom formula, and you canthink of this again as a roadmap
that you can follow to be ableto grow and scale your business.
So I'll let you hop in and wecan dive in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Okay, Well, let's name the pillars right, Like CEO
identity, eliminate and createleverage and then optimize your
marketing.
So can you speak to all threeof those areas for me?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, let's do it.
So CEO identity is the first ofthese three steps, which I think
is the most important piece.
It's the piece that peoplearen't talking about enough
because it doesn't sell, it'snot sexy, it's not something you
put on a sales page and peoplego yes, I want to buy.
But the truth is and I'velearned this myself as someone
who has been building onlinebusinesses for close to 20 years
(05:55):
now there were periods in myown journey where it would feel
like I would really want toscale, like I would be making
six figures and I want to get tomultiple six or seven, and I
would have the desire to do itand I would go out and I'd find
the right strategy and I'd hirethe mentors.
But it would feel like I wouldtake one step forward and two
steps back and maybe I'd have areally great month revenue wise,
(06:19):
but then, two months or threemonths later, I'd be right back
where I was and what I realized,after years of kind of being in
this holding pattern, was thatwhat I was trying to do was I
was trying to build my nextlevel of business from the
previous self that got me towhere I was.
In other words, it was like Iwas trying to build a
seven-figure business from asix-figure identity.
And the beautiful thing aboutbusiness is that the business
(06:43):
that you have right now is aperfect reflection of who you
are, the clients you serve, theproblems you have, the level of
revenue that you create.
It's a mirror.
So most entrepreneurs sure, Imean most entrepreneurs spend
the majority of their timetrying to fix and change the
outside.
It's like you wake up in themorning one day and you go in
(07:04):
the bathroom.
You look at yourself in themirror and you're like I don't
really like what I see.
So you grab a rag and you startcleaning your mirror and you're
like, well, maybe the problemis the mirror.
I'm like, no, no, no, theproblem is not the mirror.
The mirror is just showing youa reflection of you.
So if you want what is in themirror to change, you have to
change yourself.
(07:24):
So what CEO identity is is it'staking this inside out view of
business growth.
And instead of asking thequestion first, what needs to
change in the business, thequestion becomes who I need to
become in order to hold thisnext level of revenue or this
next stage, or this next chapter.
And so one very specificquestion I'll ask folks and I
(07:46):
live in this question every dayis so, for example, you say,
let's say you want to build aseven-figure business, it's okay
.
Well, how would a seven-figurebusiness owner show up today and
you can ask that question everymorning as like a centering
exercise?
What decisions would aseven-figure business owner make
?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner make?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner approach the copy
(08:09):
on the sales page?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner lead this sales
call?
And you start living in thatidentity and making decisions
from that identity and that iswhat changes the outside and
that's what CEO identity isabout.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So let me add to that .
So I actually just read thisbook on the subconscious mind.
It's like one of those 1950s,1960 books that has the real
meat in it that everybody's kindof watered down over time.
And when I hear you talk, whatI can hear going on in some
people's heads and maybe it'sgone on in my head in the past
(08:44):
because, like you said, it'svery hard to explain but if
you're in, in what is it?
Um, uh, the law of attraction,all that kind of stuff, like I
think it.
I think it dances around that.
But what it's saying is, ifyou're in that mindset and
you're trying to solve the nextlevel of problems, you're going
(09:04):
to act differently than whatyou're trying to solve right now
.
And and I, I a hundred percentagree with that mirror concept.
And also I was, I read thiswhole book cover to cover,
highlighted it up, underlinedstuff the subconscious mind is
nine tenths of the individual.
So actually when we're awakeit's just grabbing new stimuli
(09:25):
and processing.
So when we go back to sleep ithelps to build that identity.
So live like we're living whatour subconscious mind is driving
, okay, and really what we'redoing is we're just collecting
all the stimuli to process whowe are and and it changes your
level of thinking.
When you talked about centering,if you know who you are and how
you're thinking, you solveproblems in a different way,
(09:49):
right, like you look at thingsin that next level of thinking
of where you need to be, notwhere you're at, and so putting
yourself around the right kindof mentors, the right kind of
mastermind groups, the rightkind of people that have that
kind of thinking, helps you.
You know, quote unquote operateon that wavelength, right, and
the more you can stay on thatwavelength, the more you're
(10:10):
going to continue to grow intothat identity, because you know
the whole like, attract, like,and we can go down that rabbit
hole.
But it is so powerful and Ithink it it is underserved, and
a lot of people that become ubersuccessful they know that
that's the most important thing,where they need to spend their
time and what they need to focuson is getting that right and
(10:35):
whether it's the mantras, theprayers, whatever it is that
they're doing to set thattonality, to help you accelerate
in the direction you want to go, and also understanding where
do you want to go.
That's why I like creatinggoals and listing goals.
Now you're orienting all youractions and behaviors to moving
towards that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I love that you said that and Ilove that.
What's the name of the book, bythe way?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'll dig it up after this.
We can grab it.
But it's old school and it wasrussell brunson, okay, I went to
one of his conferences and he'ssuper big on mindset and so, uh
, one of the speakers wastalking about it and I always
like to like write down thatstuff and I have a collection of
books and I I used to read likea book a day before I had kids,
um now, and I also didn't usedto drink coffee either, and
(11:23):
those have kind of reversed.
So not a book a day, sorry, abook a week I used to read about
a book a day.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
No, that's Tai Lopez, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Tai Lopez.
But no, I used to read about abook a week.
My wife now actually got reallyupset.
I was always carrying around abook and I'll try to optimize in
between, like anytime we waitedto read something and I would
highlight it up and then I wouldreread that stuff and I could
reference where it was in thebook Right, but I couldn't
remember what it said, and thenI would like go use it as a
(11:57):
dictionary in that regard.
And my first book, Build yourBrand Mania, which was all about
personal branding but I wasdoing SEO but I saw kind of
where the market was going isreally a compilation of probably
300 books that I've written andI was kind of putting together
a lot of those nuggets and, asit was applying to my life,
incorporating that into itsubconscious mind piece, I've
(12:28):
realized how important also thattemperament is when you're
going into a call, when you'recoming out of a call, the things
that take energy, the clientsthat take energy.
The one thing that I'm findingout and that I would recommend
to people is the Pareto law ofthe 80-20 rule is absolutely
incredibly true and there'smaybe one client that's taken up
all your time but it's notwhere your time should be going
(12:50):
and you've got to be able to getto a place and empower yourself
in the business to say I don'tneed that business, there's
better business out there for me.
I need to let that go.
And then that kind of leadsinto your next pillar of
eliminate and leverage.
Like I used to always say,automate, delegate, eliminate
and a guy that used to work forme definitely taught me that,
(13:10):
and we're big on the automationphase at this point in time at
our agency.
But I would love to hear yourdefinition from you in your own
words of eliminate and leverage.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, it was a beautiful segue into that.
And I think the first thing, toyour point on Prado's principle
, the truth is, at least when Ilook at what and I've mentored
so many entrepreneurs what I seeis pretty common in almost
every entrepreneur out there is,when we look at their business,
probably 50 to 60% or more ofwhat they're doing in this
(13:43):
moment just doesn't need to bedone, and it's a very common
trap, and I've fallen into thismany times too, and I still,
every few months, I'll gothrough an exercise where I'll
just look at everything that I'mdoing and it's just amazing to
see how much clutter and howmuch complexity just builds up
over time because there's thisconstant pull towards more in a
(14:04):
business.
There's this constanttemptation to add more, add more
channels, add more complexity,funnels, marketing, and so the
first thing I think that becomesreally important in this stage
of the process is just to cutaway the things that are either
not producing results or, toyour point, are the 20% of the
(14:25):
80%, the things that are onlyproducing a small amount of
revenue but are taking up andsilently sucking the time.
This is simplification, it'scutting down the offer
structures, it's reducingcomplexity and bloat around
marketing channels.
You really don't need to be in10 different places at once.
It's choosing okay, what arethe two, three, four strategic
(14:48):
channels that I can show up onthat are going to generate the
most revenue in return?
So it's eliminate first, and Ithink the biggest mistake folks
make here and I've made thismistake too is we jump to
automation and delegation beforewe eliminate.
So we end up building team Like.
I'll give you a great example ofthis A couple months ago.
(15:10):
So we have a YouTube channel andI published a lot of YouTube
content and I had this idea andI've been paying video editors
for years to edit our videos,because my basic assumption was
okay, if we can create videosthat are really flashy and
really cut well and they havehigh retention time, youtube's
going to want to show them tomore people.
(15:31):
So I was paying thousands andthousands and thousands of
dollars to these video editors.
And then I had someone on myteam who I hired to actually
review all of the edits fromthis video editor, and so I had
two team members that I washiring to do all this work and I
never stepped back and askedmyself the question is it
actually true that highly editedvideos are performing better
(15:55):
than if I were to just record anuncut video and post it to my
channel.
So I did a little experimentand I recorded a couple of
videos that were just me, likethis, talking on the camera,
with no editing, just uncut, andI posted them to the channel
and what I found was theretention time was not only
exactly the same, it wasactually better on the uncut
(16:18):
videos.
They got more visibility,people watched them for longer.
So here was all thisunnecessary complexity in the
business, all this team, becauseI had jumped to delegation
instead of just stepping backand asking myself does this even
need to be done in the firstplace?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I totally agree with that.
I would we like to, as businessowners, I think throw money at
stuff and have it solve theproblem, without really
understanding or hiring somebodyto do something that I think
(16:57):
it's really important to.
Ok.
So, if you have all thesechannels right, and even if it's
for get really good at one,good at one, okay, and then
scale up, like you need toreally understand that channel
and how the algorithm works andhow it responds and what's going
on, because you can't base yourassumptions on data that you
don't know.
(17:18):
Right, and you're looking atyour business from the
perspective or your marketingfrom the perspective of the,
from the best seat.
Right, like you know the mostpotentially right If you're the
one that right, like you knowthe most potentially right If
you're the one that's the, the,the principle on whatever you're
doing.
And so, um, I have many times Ilike okay, I'll give you an
(17:41):
example.
So we need to.
This is an audio first podcast.
I'm not big.
We've done 700, 800, uhpodcasts and they're all on
iTunes, okay.
Or we're not big on YouTube.
I need to get big on YouTube,but we have been recording the
videos, even going back a longways when I used to.
I used to be a lot younger andI would always have a stick for
every podcast we do.
(18:02):
I had like a chicken on my headat one point, like a chicken
hat, like all kinds of crazystuff, right, and I would be in
that persona and had a co-hostuh that that founded the agency
I'm at and, uh, you know, ppcdoctor and I was like the PPC
doctor and I would respondeverything in that persona and
it was hilarious for me, like Idon't I don't know what
(18:22):
everybody else thought, but Itotally enjoyed it and it was a
ton of fun and um, but we haveall these videos and I uh hired
a uh offshore team and and put abunch of stuff together and
started having to cut stuff andthey make great cuts Okay, they
make great cuts, and it lookedflashy and everything, but the
content was like the other day Iread a book and that was it
(18:47):
Like and that was what was cut,like you know what I mean.
And so it was like the thestrategy piece needs to come
from you and you need to providethat direction and you need to
train the people to do that,because if you outsource your
brand or your business orwhatever to somebody else.
Right, like, I think even onsocial media I've done this.
(19:10):
I think it's a disservice tothe business to have somebody
else do your social media beforeyou do it.
I think you got to sweep thefloor, you got to you know, you
know clean, take out the trash,do all the stuff, know how to do
it, create an SOP and then giveit to somebody to do it.
And yeah, it might take longer,but you like you got to tone
(19:33):
out the noise, like you said,and do something right first and
get that down and then trainthat in the next person and hand
that off.
And always think, simplify thecomplexity, like just you know.
Like, like I was saying,automate, delegate, eliminate.
But if you don't train thatperson right, that person's
(19:53):
coming at everything from adifferent perspective and you've
outsourced your company or yourbrand to somebody else.
And I can tell you, when we asan agency, when we work with
clients, we really need thatclient involvement and what we
find a lot of times is thoseclients don't.
They've maybe got away fromtheir core values, right, like
(20:14):
it's maybe on their website, butthey don't live them anymore,
or the company's grown too muchand the brand has changed and so
like, I think, getting thatalignment going even back to the
first point, understanding thatalignment of who you are and
what you want to communicate tothe world, because you could
just communicate trash out thereand just create a bunch of
(20:35):
pollution of noise of what'sgoing out there.
There are people doing that andit's getting a lot noisier with
AI generated content and sothere's like a trust recession
and people are trying to figureout like who do I trust?
And I think, jason, to yourpoint, they knew it was all you
(20:59):
right and they wanted to connectwith you.
And I've seen tests where itjust it depends who you're
speaking to right and it dependslike who that target speaking
to Right and it's it spends likewho that target persona is and
and how you do it.
Um, uh, but the thing that thatI know about what you said is it
is you and because it's you,the people that have that have
(21:20):
gained that trust of of who youare and know I can trust.
You want that, want thatcontent like straight from the
horse's mouth, unedited from you, and I guess the data tells the
story that they saw that maybeI love that.
Okay, let's talk aboutoptimizing marketing.
How do you look at optimizingmarketing and how do you
(21:43):
approach it?
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yeah, I love so much of what you just said, by the
way.
I mean, there's so much wisdomin there.
There's just two pieces I wantto touch on before.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, do it, do it Absolutely Highlight back to
your, to your listeners.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I think there's a.
What you spoke to is thedifference between delegating
and abdicating, and I thinkthere's a really important
distinction there.
Delegating is I know how to dosomething myself.
We've been able to createsuccess internally and this is
no longer the highest leverageuse of our time.
So we're going to build anempowered team to be able to
(22:15):
take this thing off my plate soI can move up the value ladder.
Abdication is I don'tunderstand this, I haven't been
able to figure it out and I'mlooking for somebody else to
save me from something that Ihaven't figured out how to
master myself.
And that is a really importantdistinction.
Delegation useful as anentrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Abdication can get you in a lot of trouble, so I
love what you just said therebecause it's so, so spot on.
Yeah, I mean I, I, yeah, I getin trouble at home.
I'm like, uh, somebody else canmow the lawn Right, or like I
know how to mow the lawn and Iknow what is done right, if it's
good or not.
You've got to know what goodlooks like, and I think that's
really important.
But getting to the point whereyou're creating the most value
(22:58):
like how are you saying it upthe value ladder I think is
super important and I think thatI've seen a lot of companies
come to us and I've, I've I'vedone it personally.
Like I'll look in the mirrorand admit it.
Like there are, like digitalmarketing, if we talk about as
we get into optimizing marketing.
I'm not an expert at everything, okay, like I can't.
(23:20):
Like there are people out therethat are fantastic at email
automation.
Like I can touch it, I can gopretty deep.
I understand the concepts.
I actually think there's an oldtraining that I was doing on it
online, but there are peoplethat know so much more than me
about that.
Like I'm really good and deepin certain areas and and so I I
try to bring people around methat that have that experience.
(23:43):
But I can tell you in the past,if there's a problem and I've
seen it with a lot ofentrepreneurs or business owners
they they have a problem intheir business and they just
want to.
They just want you to fix it.
They just want to pay you tofix it and make the problem go
away with.
Not understanding that we'retreating potentially symptoms of
(24:05):
, like you're saying, of theroot issue.
Right, it's like, are youreally delegating it or are you
abdicating it?
Like what do you actually wantto happen?
What is the problem of why yourcustomer service is doing xyz?
Is it because what, like, is itlike?
I mean, I'm not saying it's abad product, like, but like you
know, like what is the symptomof whatever it is that you're
(24:28):
doing to cause these things tohappen?
You got to know what those areand I think knowing what good
looks like and then delegatingthat out is where it starts and,
you know, finding an expert tohelp assess that.
So I think people also want tomove quickly.
(24:48):
Right, they want to.
I need this fixed.
I need it fixed now.
And if you don't diagnose whatthat issue with the audit or
some kind of workshop orstrategy work and you just jump
into well, I just need to hireanother agency to do my
marketing right, because that'swhat we get.
We get a lot of calls.
People are calling hey, thisother agency doesn't.
(25:08):
Well, what are you doing?
What was their current strategy?
What was happening?
And if they're talking aboutSEO, I'm like I don't even see
any indication online of adigital footprint that SEO is
happening.
Is that truly what they'redoing?
They're doing so I'm like canyou explain to me, in your ad
campaign or whatever it was,what is happening to understand?
(25:36):
Can we pick it up and carry itforward?
Do we have to start over?
But I found a lot of businessesjust advocate their marketing
and then they go this is notworking.
And then they're like pickingup another agency and I'm like
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Let's figure out what'shappening first and then figure
out the right strategy, and thatstrategy might be more of the
same.
It might be more of the less.
I'll tell you one quick story.
Sorry, this is a greatconversation.
(25:57):
I'm looking in the mirror heremyself is I had a client that
was a big plumbing company andthey came to me for a PPC audit
and they brought in theirin-person agency and actually a
third-party agency and the owner.
And we sat down and we weredoing a PPC audit and halfway
through the audit like it was anin-person audit and I was like
(26:20):
you really need to rank SEO wisefor Plummer Houston because
you're in position seven andthat's where all your traffic's
going to come, and what you'respending on ads, like you just
need to focus on that.
And everybody's like, oh yeah,we need to do that.
I was like, well then, why don'tyou just do that?
And and that that actuallyturned into a opportunity for us
, that that was how much is itgoing to cost?
(26:40):
And he like wanted a number andso it was like kind of a pay
for performance deal, but.
And we hit it, but it's, welooked at where he was spending
his money.
And even I have another clientright now that's spending money
on paid ads and the PPC score isgetting so high.
I'm like we need to dobillboards, like I'm like we
(27:00):
need to do billboards, likeyou're spending enough, like we
need to get that brand out thereand get through the noise and
this industry's oversaturatedand you got to change.
Like you can't do more of thesame.
Um, so go ahead.
Sorry, I'm sorry, I'm just, uh,I'm, I'm flowing here on, uh, I
, I'm, I'm thinking out loud, soI love it I I love it and, and
(27:21):
I think, diagnosing the rootproblem.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
as albert einstein the one said, if you gave me an
hour to solve a problem, I wouldspend 50 minutes just defining
what the problem actually is and10 minutes solving it, whereas
most as entrepreneurs is like wewant to.
We want to jump to solutionsbefore we even understand the
problem.
So you mentioned optimizingyour marketing.
This is the third piece of theCEO freedom formula, because I
(27:46):
think for most entrepreneurs,marketing is the biggest
bottleneck.
So when we look at what itactually takes to scale a
business, it's how do we getmore leads in the door?
How do we make the most ofthose leads?
This is obviously what you doevery day.
So there's a couple differentpieces that I look at in this,
and I think, at its core, whatit's about is this tension and
this balance between leverageand intimacy in terms of
(28:07):
marketing.
I like it, which I've beenthinking a lot, quite a bit,
about lately in the conversationaround AI, leading a lot of
workshops around this andtalking about how AI is changing
marketing.
I'm sure this is somethingyou've been talking a lot about
too, and so we have a worldwhere anyone can go into chat,
gpt, churn out content at scaleand what's the thing that's
(28:28):
going to stand out?
It's personal brand, it'sstorytelling, it's vulnerability
, which is one of the reasonswhy I so deeply appreciate how
you've been bringing yourselfinto the narrative in this
podcast, because people want todo business with people they
know, like and trust, and so themore we can bring ourselves to
the table in marketing, the moreand the deeper those
(28:49):
connections are going to be.
So the days of just having thisfaceless company where you can
just churn out generic how totips content, those days are
behind us and the types ofbusinesses that are able to
integrate intimacy strategicallyand to me intimacy means it's a
combination of bringing youfully into your marketing.
(29:12):
So, rather than having thisfaceless personal thing or
impersonal thing, it's bringingthe personal brand fully to the
forefront of the business andletting people connect first
with who you are as a primarytouch point, and also
conversation and community, andthere's aspects of personal
(29:34):
one-to-one type stuff thatdoesn't scale that I think can
really provide a lot ofdifferentiation in your
marketing.
So this could be texting peopleone-to-one and reaching out to
them and in a very non-leveragedway like that, the part of you
that's going to be like, well, Ishouldn't be doing this because
it doesn't scale, like doingmore things.
That don't scale is is.
(29:55):
I've been having a lot ofconversations about that.
So that's on the intimacy sideof things, and I think it's
looking at how we canstrategically integrate intimacy
into the marketing model.
And, on the other hand hand,it's leverage, which is how do
we basically make it so that youcan communicate with more
people at once without being inthe weeds?
And this is the tension betweenthese two things is really what
(30:16):
marketing is about.
You know when I first gotstarted as a business coach and
what most people do when theyfirst start their businesses.
A lot of what drives theinitial sales is intimacy.
It's networking.
What drives the initial salesis intimacy, it's networking.
It's having one-to-oneconversations over the DMs.
It's all the stuff that peopletell you you're crazy to do when
you're scaling a businessbecause it doesn't scale.
(30:37):
So that stuff's important.
We don't want to lose that.
But it's being able tointegrate more leveraged forms
of communication so that you canscale your impact and your
reach through things likecontent, through things like
being able to communicate one tomany instead of one to one, and
being able to find the rightbalance and tension between
those two things is, I think,really what it, what it, what
(30:59):
optimizing marketing is about.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love that, the intimacy piece and the
personalization with theleverage.
I mean, I I am fearful thatwe're moving to a world where
you're going to ask chat GBT tosend me a pizza, right, and like
you want them to say, send me aDomino's pizza, you know, or
(31:22):
whatever, and and Gary, garyVaynerchuk has been talking a
lot about this Like you have tobuild that brand right or it's
going to change, right?
I think everything's changing.
I think the people also askthings to know.
The enriched search in Googleis something I deal a lot with
(31:45):
and I think those things arereally, really important, but
they don't even have to go toyour website to get those
answers, okay, they can just getin the AI overviews, right, and
I think, I think it's somethinglike 41% of traffic's down
today, okay.
So, like, if they'rereferencing, you want a citation
(32:05):
that you, your name or yourcompany, provided that
information, right, because nowyou can't track that, you don't
even know that people arelooking at it and so there,
there's a lot of that you haveto do uh with with, uh with your
marketing.
I, I think that thatpersonalization piece I think
people try to over optimize thatto your point because, like,
(32:30):
look at LinkedIn, linkedin'sreally noisy and like the
automations and thepersonalizations getting smarter
, but it's it's getting to thepoint where the one to many
needs to happen.
But there needs to be someauthenticity to it, right, and
you need to make sure it's good.
(32:50):
I think good marketing is whatneeds to happen.
I think the pendulum isswinging like fast marketing,
like get it out there, get getin front of it, optimize for it,
but, but you can't optimizesomething that's not good, right
, or you need to get back to thecore, and that's why I love
your ceo freedom format and whyit it resonated with me when I
(33:12):
heard it is it's bringing youback to the center.
You're really focused on.
Uh, what do you need to do inthat right frame of mind?
And and I and I love that Ithink that personalization and
the automation, it's that, it'sthat balance.
And I love that word tension.
I think it really speaks towhat people are doing.
(33:34):
So let's transition theconversation outside of that.
And why don't you share somecase studies or things that I
know?
You've helped a lot ofdifferent kind of coaches and
there's kind of different peoplethat are your target persona.
Let's speak to those peoplethat are listening on some of
the things you've done and maybeshare with them how you've
(33:55):
helped them.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, for sure I mean .
So I work mostly with coaches,consultants and service
providers that are runningonline businesses, folks who are
around that six figure mark andscaling, I think.
A client, megan, that I workedwith a while back.
Megan, when I first met her,she was running a successful
agency, actually as a virtualassistant agency, and she was
(34:19):
running a coaching business inaddition to that, like on the
side, and was working like 80hours a week.
Her coaching business was notgenerating much revenue and she
had been on like a hundred.
Her coaching business was notgenerating much revenue and she
had been on like 100 sales calls, I think at that point and
nothing was.
It was like what am I doinghere?
She hired some coaches.
Things weren't fully landingfor her.
(34:40):
We worked together for about ayear, first in a group program
that I was running a while backthat we are no longer actually
running, and then shetransitioned into one-to-one
with me and there were a coupleof different areas we worked on.
I think the first piece was froma marketing perspective.
A lot of it was to your pointon authenticity.
It's like how do we communicatein a way that feels human?
(35:03):
I think so much of.
Maybe you can relate to this,but so much of my journey
through marketing has beenunlearning all of these weird
ways of like things thatmarketers say you have to do
online, like when you're, whenyou're speaking to people.
It's like I, I I try toremember this when I communicate
.
I ask myself this question allthe time how would I say this If
(35:25):
I were talking to you in person?
That's the question that I useto guide everything that I
create, every email I write,every sales page I create.
And so one of the things we didwas we looked at her marketing
and we looked at all the weirdsalesy stuff that you would see
in some script online type ofcommunication but that it was
(35:48):
pulling her away from havingauthentic, real dialogue with
her audience and with her people.
And so we shifted that piece.
That really dramaticallychanged things for her.
And then, in addition to that,we moved her into a more
leveraged way, to the pointaround how do we create more
leverage?
She was doing mostly one-to-onecoaching at that time.
She launched a group program.
(36:09):
We transitioned into a moreleveraged way of delivery around
her offer so she could servemore clients without spending
more of her time.
She went from that place tomaking over $260,000 a year in
sales in about a little over ayear.
So this was like 20X growth orsomething, and she actually cut
her hours in half while doingthat.
(36:31):
And this is one of the reasonswhy I love this formula, because
it's not just about businessgrowth, but it's how do we do
this in a way that's sustainable, in a way that allows you to
enjoy your life and not feellike you're working 80 hours a
week?
So that's one example of manyclients we've worked with, but
hopefully should be cool to hearwhat's possible for folks who
(36:52):
are listening.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I think that that's dead on.
I came from the sales side ofthe business, right, so I was
always like a salesperson and Ihave absolutely seen that when
you speak to like through yourcopy to another person, right,
like you're not just puttingkind of marketing speak, but you
(37:14):
think of like okay, you knowI'm writing this for Matt or I'm
writing this for Jason, likethis is who I'm trying to reach
and imagine that as you'rewriting it and like you know,
when you read copy on a website,you're like they're talking to
me, right, this person's talkingto me and it's resonating with
me and I feel connected towhatever it is that's being said
(37:37):
.
That's the difference andthat's the magic right is that's
being said.
That's the difference andthat's the magic right Of the
internet is you can reach allthese people through that aspect
of it.
And the other point that youmade on the group coaching, like
I, I just don't think that it'sfeasible from a you know hourly
(37:58):
rate that that people could,like I'm watching the group
coaching to help the people thatcan't afford our services,
right, and so, um, not createlike another revenue stream in
that regard, but like our goalis to help one million
businesses grow, right, that'slike, oh, through, through, wow,
(38:18):
internet marketing.
That was like like our goal 26years ago, right, and, and so
that's why we started thepodcast is to, to, to help
people and to, to share stuffwith people.
And you know, there's a big gapthere between people listening
Right To what we're saying butthen, like, how does apply to me
(38:39):
, uh, and how does it apply tomy, my situation?
Um, and then like, done for you, services, sort of thing is
like the other end of it.
So I have, I have this big gapthere, that that that I would.
I think there's a need thereand I'd like to fill that for
for, uh, my audience, um, foryou listening, y'all are my
audience.
See, I'm not talking to you, I'mtalking to j, you, I'm talking
(39:01):
to Jason and I'm talking ingeneral and it's not connecting.
You see how important that is.
Like you got to talk to whoyou're speaking to, right, and
so we got it'd be great, jason,to have another like camera
facing, like, like another, likea group of people watching.
You know, like I feel like it'svery hard to do video
(39:23):
recordings, like you're talkingabout YouTube, when you don't
have somebody else on the otherline, Like I can talk to you and
we can have a conversation, butwhen I'm just talking to like a
cold microphone and trying tospeak to somebody, that that is
something.
When people start getting intocreating content that they don't
prepare you for, that you havethat's a learned skill right
there it is.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I always imagine, like the
camera's, a specific person andI just in my mind, I just
picture a person that I'mspeaking to, because it's true,
you're always having thebeautiful thing about even
podcasts is like this is a, thisis a small tweak that will
actually create a lot moreintimacy.
Sometimes folks in contentthey'll say they'll say you all,
(40:04):
or it's like we're talking aroom.
I'm like no, no, no, you.
It's like cause when you thinkabout the person listening to
this podcast right now.
You're listening to this LikeI'm speaking to you directly.
It's one person.
You and I are having aconversation Like there's one
person on the other side of theline.
So there's a certain level ofintimacy around being able to
communicate in that way, througha sales page or an email.
(40:25):
It's a one-to-one connectionwith somebody else and it
changes the way a message isperceived when it's not directed
to a room but it's directed toan individual.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
I love this wisdom.
So you got another case studyyou want to share of like
somebody you helped and likekind of walk through that.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, I'm thinking of a client, zach, actually.
So Zach is a super successfulmindset coach, working with like
high, high performance athletesand folks who are like CEOs,
folks who are like definitelytop of the game.
I met him when, when and Ithink he'd be okay with me
saying this I love you, zach, ifyou're listening.
(41:05):
So Zach, I would say, wasprobably in a very like willful
stage of business, and when Isay willful I mean more like
grind hustle kind of doing anddoing everything like, and
oftentimes what I feel like I'mdoing with entrepreneurs is how
can we transition out of thatwillful way?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
of operating David Goggins.
David Goggins.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
First it's the transition fromwillful to intellectual, which
is more of a strategic way ofoperating it's working smarter
rather than working harder andthen, on a deeper level, it's
actually strategic to intuitive,which is a more intuitively way
of running a business, whereit's not so intellectual, it's
(41:54):
more like what feels aligned inthis moment, what offer feels
right to be expressed in theworld.
So there are these moves thatentrepreneurs will often make
from willful to intellectual tointuitive as entrepreneurs
progress and grow, and so a lotof what we did on an internal
level was making that shift.
(42:15):
Externally, what happened wasthe business forexed in revenue
over the course of about a yearand he started.
What he would say is he startedworking with much more aligned
clients, like folks that hewould really enjoy working with
on a lot deeper level, and partof that was just folks being
able to experience his energymore, because he wasn't so much
(42:36):
in the grind that he was justpumping content out, and there's
a different energy to contentthat's expressed and created
from that deeper place thattends to magnetize clients
differently and attract clientsdifferently.
So we definitely go into thaton a deeper level, but those
were some of the shifts that wehelped out.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Could you go into those four areas a little bit
more?
I thought that was great.
I would love to learn moreabout those kind of four areas
and what someone might bethinking in each one of those
areas and how to make that step.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah.
So I'll say first, I've beenworking with a mentor of mine
his name's Scott Oldford for thelast few years.
This is his framework, so Iwanna give full credit to him.
But he talks about the threelevels of consciousness there's
willful, intellectual andintuitive.
There's so many applicationsfor this in marketing and sales.
(43:29):
It's been one of the mostuseful things I've ever
discovered.
So the basic premise I think tostart is we have these three
different ways of operating.
You can think of them as anddifferent people are in
different lanes, and sounderstanding where your ideal
clients are is one piece of this, which is like you know, when I
was in sales maybe you canrelate to this because I'm a
former director of sales we usedto do the DISC profile test.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Have you ever done that before?
Yeah, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
So for anyone who doesn't know DISC, it's
basically it's this personalityprofile and it would show you
there are these different waysthat people are wired.
And I remember when I wentthrough this for the first time,
I had this big aha momentbecause I realized not everybody
communicates the same way thatI do and if I want to meet
people where they are, I can'tbe like the hard driving because
I'm a high d.
(44:15):
That was.
That's the way I'm okay, I'm a.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I I'm a high eye.
Yeah, okay it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
You're say you were a former salesperson.
Yeah, so I I kind of have likea DI uh background and and my
partner is wired verydifferently.
She, she's a very low D and sosometimes we we'll get in
conflict because I can be alittle bit too direct and she,
she is more of an S, so shelikes to be communicated with
more softness and moregentleness.
(44:40):
So this is an extension of that.
There are these three differentmodes of operating, you could
say.
And so there's willful,intellectual and intuitive.
Willful is someone who is morein that grind get it done, make
(45:01):
it happen.
Energy.
There's a real emphasis on likehard work and hustle.
I would say, above all else,it's the.
I would say where Gary Vee waslike maybe five plus years ago,
you know the kind of likecelebration of the grind and the
hustle, it was emphasizing hardwork above, above really
thinking strategically.
(45:22):
It's the person that's going togo out and make like 200 sales
calls and they're just be likeI'm just going to put in the
work and do whatever it takesyeah, crush it.
That's a.
That's a word that you'll hearfrom folks in that, in that
energy, and none of these arewrong.
There's just different ways ofmodes of operating.
So willful is is is one of thethree.
Intellectual is the second.
(45:42):
This is the person who'sthinking in systems and strategy
.
They're more likely to stepback and say, okay, how can I
work smarter rather than workingharder.
They're the type of businessowner that's going to really
architect things with their mind.
They're going to think thingsthrough.
(46:02):
They're going to want casestudies and lots of facts and
information.
They're the person that's goingto ask you 5,000 questions on a
sales call because they'retrying to understand it all.
They want to learn how it allworks.
They're very intellectuallyoriented.
So that's intellectual.
And then there's intuitive, andthis is the person who does
(46:24):
things because they feel right.
This is the person who livesfrom a deeper place of intuition
, of inner wisdom.
They're less intellectual,they're more likely to say
things like I know it's rightwhen it feels good, and they're
the person who's going to tunein more so to energy and how a
(46:44):
conversation feels, and they'reless likely to respond to things
like case studies and morelikely to respond to the energy
of a conversation and the energyof a piece of content.
And so we've got these threedifferent levels willful,
intellectual and intuitive.
You could build a business fromall three.
(47:05):
There are challenges that you'llexperience in all of them and
also, I think, one useful thing,is.
You might ask yourself whereare my ideal clients, you know?
Am I working with people whoare primarily willful?
If so, your sales page is goingto need to include things like
deadline timers and countdowntimers and more external
scarcity and urgency to getsomebody to commit, because
(47:28):
that's what that person needs tosee.
You show that stuff to anintuitive person.
They're like as soon as I see acountdown timer.
I'm like screw this, this is notfor me.
So.
So there's a, there's a lot ofnuance here in terms of
understanding who your peopleare, being able to tailor your
message, and also on a personallevel.
(47:50):
I think it's understanding howyou're wired and and being able,
over time, to move move fromgenerally, from willful, to
intellectual, and then fromintellectual to a more intuitive
way of operating in thebusiness.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I think that's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Before we start to wrap up, Iwould love to hear from you
You've worked with so manydifferent entrepreneurs out
there of so many different kindsof businesses.
You probably see some kind ofpatterns right, and like, when
you're coming in to assess thesedifferent business owners, you
(48:28):
can kind of categorize them, andmaybe it is in the categories
that you just mentioned andmaybe there's like another
framework that you use to layeron top of that.
But, like, what are theproblems that most people have
when they come in?
And is there quick fixes likethat we could leave somebody
with something actionable on,like here's how you could solve
(48:50):
this Right, and I can tell, uh,jason, you're just such a a
deeper person that, um, there's,there's so much underneath
there and people need that kindof help and and a lot of people
are trying to self-diagnose alot of this stuff I think
there's kind of thedo-it-yourselfers and there's
(49:12):
the done for you, and thenthere's the like collaborative
component.
You know, I'm trying tounderstand, even for myself,
like okay, like I am clearlyhave procrastinated, if that's
the word, to not do this, to notstart this, and I guess you
(49:35):
know I actually have done.
I've coached two agencies sofar that were just kind of
beaten down my door and they'relike hey, I want you to coach us
.
And I didn't really have anoffer or framework and I was
like you could just buy somehours and just like a CMO kind
of infractional deal.
And it turned into like aneight month.
(49:57):
They kept asking me stuff but Ididn't have any kind of
methodology I was following.
I just would show up and theywould ask me questions and they
were like how do we deal withthis and how do I deal with that
?
And I just have, like I guess,a lot of experience because I've
done everything wrong to knowthe right way to do it.
I think, or at least like thething that tends to work for me
(50:17):
and then I can explain to peoplethis is how I do it thing that
tends to work for me, and then Ican explain to people this is
how I do it.
But like I didn't really have agoal of like where we were
trying to go or where we weretrying to follow.
I was just kind of like whatare your issues?
And then I was very you know itwasn't transactional, but it
was transactional in my thinkingof like.
Like, when my wife comes to me,like she doesn't want me to
(50:39):
solve the problem, like I'mtransactually I want to solve it
.
She wants to just hear me talkand like, think about it and
like all this stuff right, likeI'm just like here's the answer
right or, but is that answerright for them?
And you know, being morethoughtful and there's a lot of
like growth that's happened evenpersonally through those
experiences.
(51:00):
But like, how do you helppeople?
Right, like, what does thatlook like and what are those
common symptoms when people cometo you?
And maybe there's some quick,quick fixes for people that are
listening.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Yeah, well, there's so much there.
I mean part of me as a coach.
I'm like I just want to dive inright now and ask 10,000
questions.
If we were in a coachingconversation I would do that.
I don't think we have the timeto do that today, but I believe
(51:44):
that decisions and beliefs andactions in a business start with
who we are and who we believeourselves to be.
So, for example, let's justmake it super practical.
One common challenge that a lotof folks will come to me with
around that six figure level isthey feel like they're stretched
(52:04):
too thin because they'rehandling everything themselves
and they're operating in a waythat actually was really useful
when they first started theirbusiness, because they had to
get scrappy and figure thingsout, but now they're juggling
too many plates, they've gottheir hand in 10,000 different
things and that way of operatingis no longer sustainable to
(52:26):
help them break through to thatnext level.
And so you could look at thebusiness externally.
You could say, okay, well, youneed to get better at delegating
and you can need to get betterat it, and so many coaches or
mentors or business strategistswill do that and some people
will be able to make that shift,but it's the identity that's
creating those behaviors, and soif that person sees themselves
(52:49):
as a six figure entrepreneur,well, they're going to hang on
to control and even if they knowintellectually that they need
to delegate, they're not goingto do it Because their identity
is telling them well, it doesn'tmake sense for me to do this,
or I don't have the money to doit, or I want to hang on to
control so I can maintain thelevel of quality and the
standards that I have.
(53:10):
But if you just ask that person,if you just say I want you to
wake up every single morning andI want you to tell yourself I
am now a seven-figureentrepreneur, I lead my day as a
seven-figure entrepreneur, Imake decisions as a seven figure
entrepreneur, I lead my day asa seven figure entrepreneur, I
make decisions as a seven figureentrepreneur.
And you just do that for fiveminutes every single morning.
You just close your eyes andyou visualize what it's like to
move through your day as a sevenfigure entrepreneur.
(53:31):
Does a seven figureentrepreneur not have a team?
Does a seven figureentrepreneur hang on to 10,000
different things?
Does a seven figureentrepreneur not delegate?
No, all those things willnaturally fix themselves if that
person is just living from theidentity of the seven figure
entrepreneur.
So in business it's like we lookfor the point of highest
leverage.
(53:51):
It's like, okay, what's thelead domino that's going to
knock down 10,000 other dominoes?
If I can just press that onedomino down, you can spend all
day trying to fix things in theland of strategy, but if you
just give somebody a newidentity, those things will sort
themselves out.
So, to make it practical, Iwould ask yourself whoever's
listening, like wherever you arein your business okay, what's
(54:13):
my next level?
Where do I want to be next?
And then, who's the person whohas already created that success
?
And every single day, spendfive minutes imagining what it's
like to be that person, andyou'll find that the strategy
the external, things will sortthemselves out.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Man see, guys, you need to go check out Jason's
stuff.
You can tell he's just a gooddude, he's polished, he knows
what he's talking about, he'sgot some great frameworks.
No-transcript, just somethingwe've already talked about today
(55:09):
.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Um, but just in kind of like short form, tell me,
tell me what's one unknownsecret of internet marketing I
would say for me, the more I'veI've been doing this and I I
mean I've been doing internetmarketing for about 20 years now
the less I see it as internetmarketing and the more I see it
as just human connection.
(55:30):
That I used to see it asthere's something I need to do
to set up funnels and createthese systems and things.
Now I just see it as this isjust a simple act of connecting
with another human being.
And how do I do that using thismedium?
(55:55):
It's like if I wanted to have aconversation with you, matt, I
could call you up on the phone,I could send you a text message,
I could shoot you an email or Icould say, hey, let's go out to
coffee.
And it'd still be the sameconversation.
There's some nuances around howI might frame that.
I might use some emojis if I'msending you a text, but at the
end of the day, the substance ofthat conversation is not going
to change.
And so I think the big secretof internet marketing is, the
(56:19):
less that you see it as internetmarketing, the more that you
realize what you're actuallydoing, which is marketing, is
just a means to an end.
It's just how are wefacilitating these connections
and building trust andrelationships with people?
The more that I see it as thisvery human process, the simpler
it becomes, the more these toolsstart to feel less like these
(56:42):
big, complicated systems that Idon't understand and more as
just these tools, just like aphone or just like an email or
just like a text.
It's the same thing.
It's human connection, and Ithink that's the big unspoken
secret to internet marketing.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
I love that.
I couldn't say it better myself.
Guys, jason Moss, jason, ifpeople want to find out more
about you know you big onYouTube where else can they find
you?
Where can they connect with youand just have that genuine
connection?
Because I think you really comefrom a really centered place
and I think that that couldbenefit a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
Thank you, and thank you forthe opportunity again to get to
share with your audience.
There's a couple of places youcan connect with me on a deeper
level.
I would say go to Jason Mosscom.
Jasonmosscom, that's our huband you can link.
There's a link to our YouTubechannel where I post tons of
free trainings and resources.
There's a free guide there, ourseven figure scaling guide,
(57:44):
which is super useful.
It actually walks through theCEO freedom formula in a lot
more detail, so you can go checkthat out if you want to learn
more about that and shoot me amessage.
Let me know what resonated withyou.
I'd love to hear from you.
I love getting to connect withpeople one-to-one.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Awesome.
Well, everybody, that's JasonMoss.
Thank you for listening to theUnknown Secrets of Internet
Marketing.
I'm your host, matt Bertram.
If you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
valuable, powerful I don't evenknow how to say this anymore
tool on the planet, okay, theinternet.
Everything's changing.
Algorithms are everywhere.
You got to optimize everywhere,reach people across the board.
(58:23):
We help you build those.
In the level two of what Jasonwas talking about the funnels,
the strategies, the digital PR,the SEO, all that stuff.
We have a great team.
We've been doing it for a longtime and if you have questions
about that and want to learnmore about how it applies to
your business, reach out to EWRfor more revenue in your
(58:45):
business.
Again, I am your host, mattBertram.
Until the next time, bye-byefor now.
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing,
your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Howdy.
Welcome to another fun-filledepisode of the Unknown Secrets
of Internet Marketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram.
Today we're going to talk aboutgrowing a business, and that's
a little bit outside of my scope.
Yes and no, because, well, Ican help you grow their
marketing, I can help generateleads, I can help make sales,
(00:40):
but there are a lot of differentcomponents of growing a
business.
Also, there's a lot of peopleout there that are listening,
that do have their own agency,that might need some coaching,
and I thought it would be a goodidea to bring in a well-known
personal coach, jason Moss, totalk about the CEO freedom
formula and how to basicallyhelp people unlock what's going
(01:05):
on with them so that they canscale and grow.
And, as a lot of you know, I amgoing to be launching my own
coaching program, group coachingprogram, and I said by the end
of this month, so we're gettingdown to the wire here on what we
need to do, and so you know wecould also, jason, as one of the
top coaches, treat this as alive coaching session for me,
(01:27):
because, well, I put it all outthere, I tell everybody where
it's at.
If they can take what I shareand use it.
I want them to be helpful.
There is so much abundance inthis world and I want everybody
to win, so welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, thank you so much for having me and I
appreciate it.
I just want to yourvulnerability and bringing
people into that journey.
So much of marketing today isabout that.
It's about storytelling, it'sabout sharing the uncomfortable
process and journey of whatyou're going through.
So it takes a lot of courage todo that and I really admire you
and respect you for bringingyour audience into that as
(02:02):
you're walking through thejourney yourself for bringing
your audience into that asyou're walking through the
journey yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well, thank you.
I mean, it's all I got right,like I only know as much as I
know, and this process continuesto grow me every day and every
experience, and I think thatthat authenticity is what you
have to have and that's whypeople do business with people
they know I can trust, andpodcasting is a great way.
Long form content is a greatway for someone to connect with
you on those terms.
(02:32):
I was actually just on a callbefore this with a podcast
listener that was asking forsome marketing advice and was
happy to get on the call andhe's actually doing some awesome
stuff and really excited forhim, and I was like, hey, I'll,
I'll, I'll, hire you, we can, we, I can be your guinea pig,
right?
um, I'm definitely down to helppeople out and, um, you know, I
(02:54):
am where I am, so I'm here, andI'm here with jason moss, so, uh
, welcome well, thank you, Iappreciate it well, let's start
with the CEO Freedom Formula,because that's one of the ways
that I kind of had connected toyour stuff and I know you're
well known for that and I thinkit would help a lot of people to
(03:14):
hear you explain it, not I.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah for sure, we can definitely dive into that.
So the CEO Freedom Formula is aroadmap for scaling and growing
a business formula is a roadmapfor scaling and growing a
business and it's a roadmap thatI discovered through mentoring
and coaching and working withover a thousand entrepreneurs in
all different niches everyonefrom solopreneurs, coaches,
consultants to folks runninglarger businesses and I
(03:40):
discovered it mostly through alot of trial and error.
And I spent the first few yearsof my journey as a coach very
much focused on helping peoplewith the external aspects of
their business, which was themarketing strategy, the offers,
the niche, all the things thatmost people come to, folks like
you and me thinking that theyneed, and those things are very
important.
(04:00):
But what I started to see wasthat I would give two people the
same strategy and they wouldget very different results.
And one person would take thatstrategy and they'd go out and
they double or triple theirbusiness and one person would
take the same tools and they'dend up exactly where they are
today, you know, six monthslater, and it used to frustrate
(04:21):
me as a coach.
I you know, for years I was likewhat am I missing?
And what became clear to meover time and really studying
the success of entrepreneurs andseeing what it was about was
really this merging between theinternal journey of
entrepreneurship, mindset,identity, the internal side and
then the external side.
(04:42):
And so the CEO Freedom Formulais really about bringing those
two things together and it'sabout recognizing that a
business is partially abouthaving the right strategy and
partially about becoming thekind of person who can not only
execute on that strategy butalso to be able to really hold
the level of business that we'relooking to create.
(05:03):
So that's a high level of whatit is.
We can definitely dive into it.
But there are these threepillars or steps of the CEO
freedom formula, and you canthink of this again as a roadmap
that you can follow to be ableto grow and scale your business.
So I'll let you hop in and wecan dive in a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Okay, Well, let's name the pillars right, Like CEO
identity, eliminate and createleverage and then optimize your
marketing.
So can you speak to all threeof those areas for me?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, let's do it.
So CEO identity is the first ofthese three steps, which I think
is the most important piece.
It's the piece that peoplearen't talking about enough
because it doesn't sell, it'snot sexy, it's not something you
put on a sales page and peoplego yes, I want to buy.
But the truth is and I'velearned this myself as someone
who has been building onlinebusinesses for close to 20 years
(05:55):
now there were periods in myown journey where it would feel
like I would really want toscale, like I would be making
six figures and I want to get tomultiple six or seven, and I
would have the desire to do itand I would go out and I'd find
the right strategy and I'd hirethe mentors.
But it would feel like I wouldtake one step forward and two
steps back and maybe I'd have areally great month revenue wise,
(06:19):
but then, two months or threemonths later, I'd be right back
where I was and what I realized,after years of kind of being in
this holding pattern, was thatwhat I was trying to do was I
was trying to build my nextlevel of business from the
previous self that got me towhere I was.
In other words, it was like Iwas trying to build a
seven-figure business from asix-figure identity.
And the beautiful thing aboutbusiness is that the business
(06:43):
that you have right now is aperfect reflection of who you
are, the clients you serve, theproblems you have, the level of
revenue that you create.
It's a mirror.
So most entrepreneurs sure, Imean most entrepreneurs spend
the majority of their timetrying to fix and change the
outside.
It's like you wake up in themorning one day and you go in
(07:04):
the bathroom.
You look at yourself in themirror and you're like I don't
really like what I see.
So you grab a rag and you startcleaning your mirror and you're
like, well, maybe the problemis the mirror.
I'm like, no, no, no, theproblem is not the mirror.
The mirror is just showing youa reflection of you.
So if you want what is in themirror to change, you have to
change yourself.
(07:24):
So what CEO identity is is it'staking this inside out view of
business growth.
And instead of asking thequestion first, what needs to
change in the business, thequestion becomes who I need to
become in order to hold thisnext level of revenue or this
next stage, or this next chapter.
And so one very specificquestion I'll ask folks and I
(07:46):
live in this question every dayis so, for example, you say,
let's say you want to build aseven-figure business, it's okay
.
Well, how would a seven-figurebusiness owner show up today and
you can ask that question everymorning as like a centering
exercise?
What decisions would aseven-figure business owner make
?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner make?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner approach the copy
(08:09):
on the sales page?
How would a seven-figurebusiness owner lead this sales
call?
And you start living in thatidentity and making decisions
from that identity and that iswhat changes the outside and
that's what CEO identity isabout.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So let me add to that .
So I actually just read thisbook on the subconscious mind.
It's like one of those 1950s,1960 books that has the real
meat in it that everybody's kindof watered down over time.
And when I hear you talk, whatI can hear going on in some
people's heads and maybe it'sgone on in my head in the past
(08:44):
because, like you said, it'svery hard to explain but if
you're in, in what is it?
Um, uh, the law of attraction,all that kind of stuff, like I
think it.
I think it dances around that.
But what it's saying is, ifyou're in that mindset and
you're trying to solve the nextlevel of problems, you're going
(09:04):
to act differently than whatyou're trying to solve right now
.
And and I, I a hundred percentagree with that mirror concept.
And also I was, I read thiswhole book cover to cover,
highlighted it up, underlinedstuff the subconscious mind is
nine tenths of the individual.
So actually when we're awakeit's just grabbing new stimuli
(09:25):
and processing.
So when we go back to sleep ithelps to build that identity.
So live like we're living whatour subconscious mind is driving
, okay, and really what we'redoing is we're just collecting
all the stimuli to process whowe are and and it changes your
level of thinking.
When you talked about centering,if you know who you are and how
you're thinking, you solveproblems in a different way,
(09:49):
right, like you look at thingsin that next level of thinking
of where you need to be, notwhere you're at, and so putting
yourself around the right kindof mentors, the right kind of
mastermind groups, the rightkind of people that have that
kind of thinking, helps you.
You know, quote unquote operateon that wavelength, right, and
the more you can stay on thatwavelength, the more you're
(10:10):
going to continue to grow intothat identity, because you know
the whole like, attract, like,and we can go down that rabbit
hole.
But it is so powerful and Ithink it it is underserved, and
a lot of people that become ubersuccessful they know that
that's the most important thing,where they need to spend their
time and what they need to focuson is getting that right and
(10:35):
whether it's the mantras, theprayers, whatever it is that
they're doing to set thattonality, to help you accelerate
in the direction you want to go, and also understanding where
do you want to go.
That's why I like creatinggoals and listing goals.
Now you're orienting all youractions and behaviors to moving
towards that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I love that you said that and Ilove that.
What's the name of the book, bythe way?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'll dig it up after this.
We can grab it.
But it's old school and it wasrussell brunson, okay, I went to
one of his conferences and he'ssuper big on mindset and so, uh
, one of the speakers wastalking about it and I always
like to like write down thatstuff and I have a collection of
books and I I used to read likea book a day before I had kids,
um now, and I also didn't usedto drink coffee either, and
(11:23):
those have kind of reversed.
So not a book a day, sorry, abook a week I used to read about
a book a day.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
No, that's Tai Lopez, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Tai Lopez.
But no, I used to read about abook a week.
My wife now actually got reallyupset.
I was always carrying around abook and I'll try to optimize in
between, like anytime we waitedto read something and I would
highlight it up and then I wouldreread that stuff and I could
reference where it was in thebook Right, but I couldn't
remember what it said, and thenI would like go use it as a
(11:57):
dictionary in that regard.
And my first book, Build yourBrand Mania, which was all about
personal branding but I wasdoing SEO but I saw kind of
where the market was going isreally a compilation of probably
300 books that I've written andI was kind of putting together
a lot of those nuggets and, asit was applying to my life,
incorporating that into itsubconscious mind piece, I've
(12:28):
realized how important also thattemperament is when you're
going into a call, when you'recoming out of a call, the things
that take energy, the clientsthat take energy.
The one thing that I'm findingout and that I would recommend
to people is the Pareto law ofthe 80-20 rule is absolutely
incredibly true and there'smaybe one client that's taken up
all your time but it's notwhere your time should be going
(12:50):
and you've got to be able to getto a place and empower yourself
in the business to say I don'tneed that business, there's
better business out there for me.
I need to let that go.
And then that kind of leadsinto your next pillar of
eliminate and leverage.
Like I used to always say,automate, delegate, eliminate
and a guy that used to work forme definitely taught me that,
(13:10):
and we're big on the automationphase at this point in time at
our agency.
But I would love to hear yourdefinition from you in your own
words of eliminate and leverage.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, it was a beautiful segue into that.
And I think the first thing, toyour point on Prado's principle
, the truth is, at least when Ilook at what and I've mentored
so many entrepreneurs what I seeis pretty common in almost
every entrepreneur out there is,when we look at their business,
probably 50 to 60% or more ofwhat they're doing in this
(13:43):
moment just doesn't need to bedone, and it's a very common
trap, and I've fallen into thismany times too, and I still,
every few months, I'll gothrough an exercise where I'll
just look at everything that I'mdoing and it's just amazing to
see how much clutter and howmuch complexity just builds up
over time because there's thisconstant pull towards more in a
(14:04):
business.
There's this constanttemptation to add more, add more
channels, add more complexity,funnels, marketing, and so the
first thing I think that becomesreally important in this stage
of the process is just to cutaway the things that are either
not producing results or, toyour point, are the 20% of the
(14:25):
80%, the things that are onlyproducing a small amount of
revenue but are taking up andsilently sucking the time.
This is simplification, it'scutting down the offer
structures, it's reducingcomplexity and bloat around
marketing channels.
You really don't need to be in10 different places at once.
It's choosing okay, what arethe two, three, four strategic
(14:48):
channels that I can show up onthat are going to generate the
most revenue in return?
So it's eliminate first, and Ithink the biggest mistake folks
make here and I've made thismistake too is we jump to
automation and delegation beforewe eliminate.
So we end up building team Like.
I'll give you a great example ofthis A couple months ago.
(15:10):
So we have a YouTube channel andI published a lot of YouTube
content and I had this idea andI've been paying video editors
for years to edit our videos,because my basic assumption was
okay, if we can create videosthat are really flashy and
really cut well and they havehigh retention time, youtube's
going to want to show them tomore people.
(15:31):
So I was paying thousands andthousands and thousands of
dollars to these video editors.
And then I had someone on myteam who I hired to actually
review all of the edits fromthis video editor, and so I had
two team members that I washiring to do all this work and I
never stepped back and askedmyself the question is it
actually true that highly editedvideos are performing better
(15:55):
than if I were to just record anuncut video and post it to my
channel.
So I did a little experimentand I recorded a couple of
videos that were just me, likethis, talking on the camera,
with no editing, just uncut, andI posted them to the channel
and what I found was theretention time was not only
exactly the same, it wasactually better on the uncut
(16:18):
videos.
They got more visibility,people watched them for longer.
So here was all thisunnecessary complexity in the
business, all this team, becauseI had jumped to delegation
instead of just stepping backand asking myself does this even
need to be done in the firstplace?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I totally agree with that.
I would we like to, as businessowners, I think throw money at
stuff and have it solve theproblem, without really
understanding or hiring somebodyto do something that I think
(16:57):
it's really important to.
Ok.
So, if you have all thesechannels right, and even if it's
for get really good at one,good at one, okay, and then
scale up, like you need toreally understand that channel
and how the algorithm works andhow it responds and what's going
on, because you can't base yourassumptions on data that you
don't know.
(17:18):
Right, and you're looking atyour business from the
perspective or your marketingfrom the perspective of the,
from the best seat.
Right, like you know the mostpotentially right If you're the
one that right, like you knowthe most potentially right If
you're the one that's the, the,the principle on whatever you're
doing.
And so, um, I have many times Ilike okay, I'll give you an
(17:41):
example.
So we need to.
This is an audio first podcast.
I'm not big.
We've done 700, 800, uhpodcasts and they're all on
iTunes, okay.
Or we're not big on YouTube.
I need to get big on YouTube,but we have been recording the
videos, even going back a longways when I used to.
I used to be a lot younger andI would always have a stick for
every podcast we do.
(18:02):
I had like a chicken on my headat one point, like a chicken
hat, like all kinds of crazystuff, right, and I would be in
that persona and had a co-hostuh that that founded the agency
I'm at and, uh, you know, ppcdoctor and I was like the PPC
doctor and I would respondeverything in that persona and
it was hilarious for me, like Idon't I don't know what
(18:22):
everybody else thought, but Itotally enjoyed it and it was a
ton of fun and um, but we haveall these videos and I uh hired
a uh offshore team and and put abunch of stuff together and
started having to cut stuff andthey make great cuts Okay, they
make great cuts, and it lookedflashy and everything, but the
content was like the other day Iread a book and that was it
(18:47):
Like and that was what was cut,like you know what I mean.
And so it was like the thestrategy piece needs to come
from you and you need to providethat direction and you need to
train the people to do that,because if you outsource your
brand or your business orwhatever to somebody else.
Right, like, I think even onsocial media I've done this.
(19:10):
I think it's a disservice tothe business to have somebody
else do your social media beforeyou do it.
I think you got to sweep thefloor, you got to you know, you
know clean, take out the trash,do all the stuff, know how to do
it, create an SOP and then giveit to somebody to do it.
And yeah, it might take longer,but you like you got to tone
(19:33):
out the noise, like you said,and do something right first and
get that down and then trainthat in the next person and hand
that off.
And always think, simplify thecomplexity, like just you know.
Like, like I was saying,automate, delegate, eliminate.
But if you don't train thatperson right, that person's
(19:53):
coming at everything from adifferent perspective and you've
outsourced your company or yourbrand to somebody else.
And I can tell you, when we asan agency, when we work with
clients, we really need thatclient involvement and what we
find a lot of times is thoseclients don't.
They've maybe got away fromtheir core values, right, like
(20:14):
it's maybe on their website, butthey don't live them anymore,
or the company's grown too muchand the brand has changed and so
like, I think, getting thatalignment going even back to the
first point, understanding thatalignment of who you are and
what you want to communicate tothe world, because you could
just communicate trash out thereand just create a bunch of
(20:35):
pollution of noise of what'sgoing out there.
There are people doing that andit's getting a lot noisier with
AI generated content and sothere's like a trust recession
and people are trying to figureout like who do I trust?
And I think, jason, to yourpoint, they knew it was all you
(20:59):
right and they wanted to connectwith you.
And I've seen tests where itjust it depends who you're
speaking to right and it dependslike who that target speaking
to Right and it's it spends likewho that target persona is and
and how you do it.
Um, uh, but the thing that thatI know about what you said is it
is you and because it's you,the people that have that have
(21:20):
gained that trust of of who youare and know I can trust.
You want that, want thatcontent like straight from the
horse's mouth, unedited from you, and I guess the data tells the
story that they saw that maybeI love that.
Okay, let's talk aboutoptimizing marketing.
How do you look at optimizingmarketing and how do you
(21:43):
approach it?
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yeah, I love so much of what you just said, by the
way.
I mean, there's so much wisdomin there.
There's just two pieces I wantto touch on before.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, do it, do it Absolutely Highlight back to
your, to your listeners.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
I think there's a.
What you spoke to is thedifference between delegating
and abdicating, and I thinkthere's a really important
distinction there.
Delegating is I know how to dosomething myself.
We've been able to createsuccess internally and this is
no longer the highest leverageuse of our time.
So we're going to build anempowered team to be able to
(22:15):
take this thing off my plate soI can move up the value ladder.
Abdication is I don'tunderstand this, I haven't been
able to figure it out and I'mlooking for somebody else to
save me from something that Ihaven't figured out how to
master myself.
And that is a really importantdistinction.
Delegation useful as anentrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Abdication can get you in a lot of trouble, so I
love what you just said therebecause it's so, so spot on.
Yeah, I mean I, I, yeah, I getin trouble at home.
I'm like, uh, somebody else canmow the lawn Right, or like I
know how to mow the lawn and Iknow what is done right, if it's
good or not.
You've got to know what goodlooks like, and I think that's
really important.
But getting to the point whereyou're creating the most value
(22:58):
like how are you saying it upthe value ladder I think is
super important and I think thatI've seen a lot of companies
come to us and I've, I've I'vedone it personally.
Like I'll look in the mirrorand admit it.
Like there are, like digitalmarketing, if we talk about as
we get into optimizing marketing.
I'm not an expert at everything, okay, like I can't.
(23:20):
Like there are people out therethat are fantastic at email
automation.
Like I can touch it, I can gopretty deep.
I understand the concepts.
I actually think there's an oldtraining that I was doing on it
online, but there are peoplethat know so much more than me
about that.
Like I'm really good and deepin certain areas and and so I I
try to bring people around methat that have that experience.
(23:43):
But I can tell you in the past,if there's a problem and I've
seen it with a lot ofentrepreneurs or business owners
they they have a problem intheir business and they just
want to.
They just want you to fix it.
They just want to pay you tofix it and make the problem go
away with.
Not understanding that we'retreating potentially symptoms of
(24:05):
, like you're saying, of theroot issue.
Right, it's like, are youreally delegating it or are you
abdicating it?
Like what do you actually wantto happen?
What is the problem of why yourcustomer service is doing xyz?
Is it because what, like, is itlike?
I mean, I'm not saying it's abad product, like, but like you
know, like what is the symptomof whatever it is that you're
(24:28):
doing to cause these things tohappen?
You got to know what those areand I think knowing what good
looks like and then delegatingthat out is where it starts and,
you know, finding an expert tohelp assess that.
So I think people also want tomove quickly.
(24:48):
Right, they want to.
I need this fixed.
I need it fixed now.
And if you don't diagnose whatthat issue with the audit or
some kind of workshop orstrategy work and you just jump
into well, I just need to hireanother agency to do my
marketing right, because that'swhat we get.
We get a lot of calls.
People are calling hey, thisother agency doesn't.
(25:08):
Well, what are you doing?
What was their current strategy?
What was happening?
And if they're talking aboutSEO, I'm like I don't even see
any indication online of adigital footprint that SEO is
happening.
Is that truly what they'redoing?
They're doing so I'm like canyou explain to me, in your ad
campaign or whatever it was,what is happening to understand?
(25:36):
Can we pick it up and carry itforward?
Do we have to start over?
But I found a lot of businessesjust advocate their marketing
and then they go this is notworking.
And then they're like pickingup another agency and I'm like
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Let's figure out what'shappening first and then figure
out the right strategy, and thatstrategy might be more of the
same.
It might be more of the less.
I'll tell you one quick story.
Sorry, this is a greatconversation.
(25:57):
I'm looking in the mirror heremyself is I had a client that
was a big plumbing company andthey came to me for a PPC audit
and they brought in theirin-person agency and actually a
third-party agency and the owner.
And we sat down and we weredoing a PPC audit and halfway
through the audit like it was anin-person audit and I was like
(26:20):
you really need to rank SEO wisefor Plummer Houston because
you're in position seven andthat's where all your traffic's
going to come, and what you'respending on ads, like you just
need to focus on that.
And everybody's like, oh yeah,we need to do that.
I was like, well then, why don'tyou just do that?
And and that that actuallyturned into a opportunity for us
, that that was how much is itgoing to cost?
(26:40):
And he like wanted a number andso it was like kind of a pay
for performance deal, but.
And we hit it, but it's, welooked at where he was spending
his money.
And even I have another clientright now that's spending money
on paid ads and the PPC score isgetting so high.
I'm like we need to dobillboards, like I'm like we
(27:00):
need to do billboards, likeyou're spending enough, like we
need to get that brand out thereand get through the noise and
this industry's oversaturatedand you got to change.
Like you can't do more of thesame.
Um, so go ahead.
Sorry, I'm sorry, I'm just, uh,I'm, I'm flowing here on, uh, I
, I'm, I'm thinking out loud, soI love it I I love it and, and
(27:21):
I think, diagnosing the rootproblem.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
as albert einstein the one said, if you gave me an
hour to solve a problem, I wouldspend 50 minutes just defining
what the problem actually is and10 minutes solving it, whereas
most as entrepreneurs is like wewant to.
We want to jump to solutionsbefore we even understand the
problem.
So you mentioned optimizingyour marketing.
This is the third piece of theCEO freedom formula, because I
(27:46):
think for most entrepreneurs,marketing is the biggest
bottleneck.
So when we look at what itactually takes to scale a
business, it's how do we getmore leads in the door?
How do we make the most ofthose leads?
This is obviously what you doevery day.
So there's a couple differentpieces that I look at in this,
and I think, at its core, whatit's about is this tension and
this balance between leverageand intimacy in terms of
(28:07):
marketing.
I like it, which I've beenthinking a lot, quite a bit,
about lately in the conversationaround AI, leading a lot of
workshops around this andtalking about how AI is changing
marketing.
I'm sure this is somethingyou've been talking a lot about
too, and so we have a worldwhere anyone can go into chat,
gpt, churn out content at scaleand what's the thing that's
(28:28):
going to stand out?
It's personal brand, it'sstorytelling, it's vulnerability
, which is one of the reasonswhy I so deeply appreciate how
you've been bringing yourselfinto the narrative in this
podcast, because people want todo business with people they
know, like and trust, and so themore we can bring ourselves to
the table in marketing, the moreand the deeper those
(28:49):
connections are going to be.
So the days of just having thisfaceless company where you can
just churn out generic how totips content, those days are
behind us and the types ofbusinesses that are able to
integrate intimacy strategicallyand to me intimacy means it's a
combination of bringing youfully into your marketing.
(29:12):
So, rather than having thisfaceless personal thing or
impersonal thing, it's bringingthe personal brand fully to the
forefront of the business andletting people connect first
with who you are as a primarytouch point, and also
conversation and community, andthere's aspects of personal
(29:34):
one-to-one type stuff thatdoesn't scale that I think can
really provide a lot ofdifferentiation in your
marketing.
So this could be texting peopleone-to-one and reaching out to
them and in a very non-leveragedway like that, the part of you
that's going to be like, well, Ishouldn't be doing this because
it doesn't scale, like doingmore things.
That don't scale is is.
(29:55):
I've been having a lot ofconversations about that.
So that's on the intimacy sideof things, and I think it's
looking at how we canstrategically integrate intimacy
into the marketing model.
And, on the other hand hand,it's leverage, which is how do
we basically make it so that youcan communicate with more
people at once without being inthe weeds?
And this is the tension betweenthese two things is really what
(30:16):
marketing is about.
You know when I first gotstarted as a business coach and
what most people do when theyfirst start their businesses.
A lot of what drives theinitial sales is intimacy.
It's networking.
What drives the initial salesis intimacy, it's networking.
It's having one-to-oneconversations over the DMs.
It's all the stuff that peopletell you you're crazy to do when
you're scaling a businessbecause it doesn't scale.
(30:37):
So that stuff's important.
We don't want to lose that.
But it's being able tointegrate more leveraged forms
of communication so that you canscale your impact and your
reach through things likecontent, through things like
being able to communicate one tomany instead of one to one, and
being able to find the rightbalance and tension between
those two things is, I think,really what it, what it, what
(30:59):
optimizing marketing is about.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I love that, the intimacy piece and the
personalization with theleverage.
I mean, I I am fearful thatwe're moving to a world where
you're going to ask chat GBT tosend me a pizza, right, and like
you want them to say, send me aDomino's pizza, you know, or
(31:22):
whatever, and and Gary, garyVaynerchuk has been talking a
lot about this Like you have tobuild that brand right or it's
going to change, right?
I think everything's changing.
I think the people also askthings to know.
The enriched search in Googleis something I deal a lot with
(31:45):
and I think those things arereally, really important, but
they don't even have to go toyour website to get those
answers, okay, they can just getin the AI overviews, right, and
I think, I think it's somethinglike 41% of traffic's down
today, okay.
So, like, if they'rereferencing, you want a citation
(32:05):
that you, your name or yourcompany, provided that
information, right, because nowyou can't track that, you don't
even know that people arelooking at it and so there,
there's a lot of that you haveto do uh with with, uh with your
marketing.
I, I think that thatpersonalization piece I think
people try to over optimize thatto your point because, like,
(32:30):
look at LinkedIn, linkedin'sreally noisy and like the
automations and thepersonalizations getting smarter
, but it's it's getting to thepoint where the one to many
needs to happen.
But there needs to be someauthenticity to it, right, and
you need to make sure it's good.
(32:50):
I think good marketing is whatneeds to happen.
I think the pendulum isswinging like fast marketing,
like get it out there, get getin front of it, optimize for it,
but, but you can't optimizesomething that's not good, right
, or you need to get back to thecore, and that's why I love
your ceo freedom format and whyit it resonated with me when I
(33:12):
heard it is it's bringing youback to the center.
You're really focused on.
Uh, what do you need to do inthat right frame of mind?
And and I and I love that Ithink that personalization and
the automation, it's that, it'sthat balance.
And I love that word tension.
I think it really speaks towhat people are doing.
(33:34):
So let's transition theconversation outside of that.
And why don't you share somecase studies or things that I
know?
You've helped a lot ofdifferent kind of coaches and
there's kind of different peoplethat are your target persona.
Let's speak to those peoplethat are listening on some of
the things you've done and maybeshare with them how you've
(33:55):
helped them.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Yeah, for sure I mean .
So I work mostly with coaches,consultants and service
providers that are runningonline businesses, folks who are
around that six figure mark andscaling, I think.
A client, megan, that I workedwith a while back.
Megan, when I first met her,she was running a successful
agency, actually as a virtualassistant agency, and she was
(34:19):
running a coaching business inaddition to that, like on the
side, and was working like 80hours a week.
Her coaching business was notgenerating much revenue and she
had been on like a hundred.
Her coaching business was notgenerating much revenue and she
had been on like 100 sales calls, I think at that point and
nothing was.
It was like what am I doinghere?
She hired some coaches.
Things weren't fully landingfor her.
(34:40):
We worked together for about ayear, first in a group program
that I was running a while backthat we are no longer actually
running, and then shetransitioned into one-to-one
with me and there were a coupleof different areas we worked on.
I think the first piece was froma marketing perspective.
A lot of it was to your pointon authenticity.
It's like how do we communicatein a way that feels human?
(35:03):
I think so much of.
Maybe you can relate to this,but so much of my journey
through marketing has beenunlearning all of these weird
ways of like things thatmarketers say you have to do
online, like when you're, whenyou're speaking to people.
It's like I, I I try toremember this when I communicate
.
I ask myself this question allthe time how would I say this If
(35:25):
I were talking to you in person?
That's the question that I useto guide everything that I
create, every email I write,every sales page I create.
And so one of the things we didwas we looked at her marketing
and we looked at all the weirdsalesy stuff that you would see
in some script online type ofcommunication but that it was
(35:48):
pulling her away from havingauthentic, real dialogue with
her audience and with her people.
And so we shifted that piece.
That really dramaticallychanged things for her.
And then, in addition to that,we moved her into a more
leveraged way, to the pointaround how do we create more
leverage?
She was doing mostly one-to-onecoaching at that time.
She launched a group program.
(36:09):
We transitioned into a moreleveraged way of delivery around
her offer so she could servemore clients without spending
more of her time.
She went from that place tomaking over $260,000 a year in
sales in about a little over ayear.
So this was like 20X growth orsomething, and she actually cut
her hours in half while doingthat.
(36:31):
And this is one of the reasonswhy I love this formula, because
it's not just about businessgrowth, but it's how do we do
this in a way that's sustainable, in a way that allows you to
enjoy your life and not feellike you're working 80 hours a
week?
So that's one example of manyclients we've worked with, but
hopefully should be cool to hearwhat's possible for folks who
(36:52):
are listening.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I think that that's dead on.
I came from the sales side ofthe business, right, so I was
always like a salesperson and Ihave absolutely seen that when
you speak to like through yourcopy to another person, right,
like you're not just puttingkind of marketing speak, but you
(37:14):
think of like okay, you knowI'm writing this for Matt or I'm
writing this for Jason, likethis is who I'm trying to reach
and imagine that as you'rewriting it and like you know,
when you read copy on a website,you're like they're talking to
me, right, this person's talkingto me and it's resonating with
me and I feel connected towhatever it is that's being said
(37:37):
.
That's the difference andthat's the magic right is that's
being said.
That's the difference andthat's the magic right Of the
internet is you can reach allthese people through that aspect
of it.
And the other point that youmade on the group coaching, like
I, I just don't think that it'sfeasible from a you know hourly
(37:58):
rate that that people could,like I'm watching the group
coaching to help the people thatcan't afford our services,
right, and so, um, not createlike another revenue stream in
that regard, but like our goalis to help one million
businesses grow, right, that'slike, oh, through, through, wow,
(38:18):
internet marketing.
That was like like our goal 26years ago, right, and, and so
that's why we started thepodcast is to, to, to help
people and to, to share stuffwith people.
And you know, there's a big gapthere between people listening
Right To what we're saying butthen, like, how does apply to me
(38:39):
, uh, and how does it apply tomy, my situation?
Um, and then like, done for you, services, sort of thing is
like the other end of it.
So I have, I have this big gapthere, that that that I would.
I think there's a need thereand I'd like to fill that for
for, uh, my audience, um, foryou listening, y'all are my
audience.
See, I'm not talking to you, I'mtalking to j, you, I'm talking
(39:01):
to Jason and I'm talking ingeneral and it's not connecting.
You see how important that is.
Like you got to talk to whoyou're speaking to, right, and
so we got it'd be great, jason,to have another like camera
facing, like, like another, likea group of people watching.
You know, like I feel like it'svery hard to do video
(39:23):
recordings, like you're talkingabout YouTube, when you don't
have somebody else on the otherline, Like I can talk to you and
we can have a conversation, butwhen I'm just talking to like a
cold microphone and trying tospeak to somebody, that that is
something.
When people start getting intocreating content that they don't
prepare you for, that you havethat's a learned skill right
there it is.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I always imagine, like the
camera's, a specific person andI just in my mind, I just
picture a person that I'mspeaking to, because it's true,
you're always having thebeautiful thing about even
podcasts is like this is a, thisis a small tweak that will
actually create a lot moreintimacy.
Sometimes folks in contentthey'll say they'll say you all,
(40:04):
or it's like we're talking aroom.
I'm like no, no, no, you.
It's like cause when you thinkabout the person listening to
this podcast right now.
You're listening to this LikeI'm speaking to you directly.
It's one person.
You and I are having aconversation Like there's one
person on the other side of theline.
So there's a certain level ofintimacy around being able to
communicate in that way, througha sales page or an email.
(40:25):
It's a one-to-one connectionwith somebody else and it
changes the way a message isperceived when it's not directed
to a room but it's directed toan individual.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
I love this wisdom.
So you got another case studyyou want to share of like
somebody you helped and likekind of walk through that.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, I'm thinking of a client, zach, actually.
So Zach is a super successfulmindset coach, working with like
high, high performance athletesand folks who are like CEOs,
folks who are like definitelytop of the game.
I met him when, when and Ithink he'd be okay with me
saying this I love you, zach, ifyou're listening.
(41:05):
So Zach, I would say, wasprobably in a very like willful
stage of business, and when Isay willful I mean more like
grind hustle kind of doing anddoing everything like, and
oftentimes what I feel like I'mdoing with entrepreneurs is how
can we transition out of thatwillful way?
Speaker 2 (41:25):
of operating David Goggins.
David Goggins.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
First it's the transition fromwillful to intellectual, which
is more of a strategic way ofoperating it's working smarter
rather than working harder andthen, on a deeper level, it's
actually strategic to intuitive,which is a more intuitively way
of running a business, whereit's not so intellectual, it's
(41:54):
more like what feels aligned inthis moment, what offer feels
right to be expressed in theworld.
So there are these moves thatentrepreneurs will often make
from willful to intellectual tointuitive as entrepreneurs
progress and grow, and so a lotof what we did on an internal
level was making that shift.
(42:15):
Externally, what happened wasthe business forexed in revenue
over the course of about a yearand he started.
What he would say is he startedworking with much more aligned
clients, like folks that hewould really enjoy working with
on a lot deeper level, and partof that was just folks being
able to experience his energymore, because he wasn't so much
(42:36):
in the grind that he was justpumping content out, and there's
a different energy to contentthat's expressed and created
from that deeper place thattends to magnetize clients
differently and attract clientsdifferently.
So we definitely go into thaton a deeper level, but those
were some of the shifts that wehelped out.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Could you go into those four areas a little bit
more?
I thought that was great.
I would love to learn moreabout those kind of four areas
and what someone might bethinking in each one of those
areas and how to make that step.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah.
So I'll say first, I've beenworking with a mentor of mine
his name's Scott Oldford for thelast few years.
This is his framework, so Iwanna give full credit to him.
But he talks about the threelevels of consciousness there's
willful, intellectual andintuitive.
There's so many applicationsfor this in marketing and sales.
(43:29):
It's been one of the mostuseful things I've ever
discovered.
So the basic premise I think tostart is we have these three
different ways of operating.
You can think of them as anddifferent people are in
different lanes, and sounderstanding where your ideal
clients are is one piece of this, which is like you know, when I
was in sales maybe you canrelate to this because I'm a
former director of sales we usedto do the DISC profile test.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Have you ever done that before?
Yeah, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
So for anyone who doesn't know DISC, it's
basically it's this personalityprofile and it would show you
there are these different waysthat people are wired.
And I remember when I wentthrough this for the first time,
I had this big aha momentbecause I realized not everybody
communicates the same way thatI do and if I want to meet
people where they are, I can'tbe like the hard driving because
I'm a high d.
(44:15):
That was.
That's the way I'm okay, I'm a.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I I'm a high eye.
Yeah, okay it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
You're say you were a former salesperson.
Yeah, so I I kind of have likea DI uh background and and my
partner is wired verydifferently.
She, she's a very low D and sosometimes we we'll get in
conflict because I can be alittle bit too direct and she,
she is more of an S, so shelikes to be communicated with
more softness and moregentleness.
(44:40):
So this is an extension of that.
There are these three differentmodes of operating, you could
say.
And so there's willful,intellectual and intuitive.
Willful is someone who is morein that grind get it done, make
(45:01):
it happen.
Energy.
There's a real emphasis on likehard work and hustle.
I would say, above all else,it's the.
I would say where Gary Vee waslike maybe five plus years ago,
you know the kind of likecelebration of the grind and the
hustle, it was emphasizing hardwork above, above really
thinking strategically.
(45:22):
It's the person that's going togo out and make like 200 sales
calls and they're just be likeI'm just going to put in the
work and do whatever it takesyeah, crush it.
That's a.
That's a word that you'll hearfrom folks in that, in that
energy, and none of these arewrong.
There's just different ways ofmodes of operating.
So willful is is is one of thethree.
Intellectual is the second.
(45:42):
This is the person who'sthinking in systems and strategy
.
They're more likely to stepback and say, okay, how can I
work smarter rather than workingharder.
They're the type of businessowner that's going to really
architect things with their mind.
They're going to think thingsthrough.
(46:02):
They're going to want casestudies and lots of facts and
information.
They're the person that's goingto ask you 5,000 questions on a
sales call because they'retrying to understand it all.
They want to learn how it allworks.
They're very intellectuallyoriented.
So that's intellectual.
And then there's intuitive, andthis is the person who does
(46:24):
things because they feel right.
This is the person who livesfrom a deeper place of intuition
, of inner wisdom.
They're less intellectual,they're more likely to say
things like I know it's rightwhen it feels good, and they're
the person who's going to tunein more so to energy and how a
(46:44):
conversation feels, and they'reless likely to respond to things
like case studies and morelikely to respond to the energy
of a conversation and the energyof a piece of content.
And so we've got these threedifferent levels willful,
intellectual and intuitive.
You could build a business fromall three.
(47:05):
There are challenges that you'llexperience in all of them and
also, I think, one useful thing,is.
You might ask yourself whereare my ideal clients, you know?
Am I working with people whoare primarily willful?
If so, your sales page is goingto need to include things like
deadline timers and countdowntimers and more external
scarcity and urgency to getsomebody to commit, because
(47:28):
that's what that person needs tosee.
You show that stuff to anintuitive person.
They're like as soon as I see acountdown timer.
I'm like screw this, this is notfor me.
So.
So there's a, there's a lot ofnuance here in terms of
understanding who your peopleare, being able to tailor your
message, and also on a personallevel.
(47:50):
I think it's understanding howyou're wired and and being able,
over time, to move move fromgenerally, from willful, to
intellectual, and then fromintellectual to a more intuitive
way of operating in thebusiness.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I think that's so good.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
Before we start to wrap up, Iwould love to hear from you
You've worked with so manydifferent entrepreneurs out
there of so many different kindsof businesses.
You probably see some kind ofpatterns right, and like, when
you're coming in to assess thesedifferent business owners, you
(48:28):
can kind of categorize them, andmaybe it is in the categories
that you just mentioned andmaybe there's like another
framework that you use to layeron top of that.
But, like, what are theproblems that most people have
when they come in?
And is there quick fixes likethat we could leave somebody
with something actionable on,like here's how you could solve
(48:50):
this Right, and I can tell, uh,jason, you're just such a a
deeper person that, um, there's,there's so much underneath
there and people need that kindof help and and a lot of people
are trying to self-diagnose alot of this stuff I think
there's kind of thedo-it-yourselfers and there's
(49:12):
the done for you, and thenthere's the like collaborative
component.
You know, I'm trying tounderstand, even for myself,
like okay, like I am clearlyhave procrastinated, if that's
the word, to not do this, to notstart this, and I guess you
(49:35):
know I actually have done.
I've coached two agencies sofar that were just kind of
beaten down my door and they'relike hey, I want you to coach us
.
And I didn't really have anoffer or framework and I was
like you could just buy somehours and just like a CMO kind
of infractional deal.
And it turned into like aneight month.
(49:57):
They kept asking me stuff but Ididn't have any kind of
methodology I was following.
I just would show up and theywould ask me questions and they
were like how do we deal withthis and how do I deal with that
?
And I just have, like I guess,a lot of experience because I've
done everything wrong to knowthe right way to do it.
I think, or at least like thething that tends to work for me
(50:17):
and then I can explain to peoplethis is how I do it thing that
tends to work for me, and then Ican explain to people this is
how I do it.
But like I didn't really have agoal of like where we were
trying to go or where we weretrying to follow.
I was just kind of like whatare your issues?
And then I was very you know itwasn't transactional, but it
was transactional in my thinkingof like.
Like, when my wife comes to me,like she doesn't want me to
(50:39):
solve the problem, like I'mtransactually I want to solve it
.
She wants to just hear me talkand like, think about it and
like all this stuff right, likeI'm just like here's the answer
right or, but is that answerright for them?
And you know, being morethoughtful and there's a lot of
like growth that's happened evenpersonally through those
experiences.
(51:00):
But like, how do you helppeople?
Right, like, what does thatlook like and what are those
common symptoms when people cometo you?
And maybe there's some quick,quick fixes for people that are
listening.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
Yeah, well, there's so much there.
I mean part of me as a coach.
I'm like I just want to dive inright now and ask 10,000
questions.
If we were in a coachingconversation I would do that.
I don't think we have the timeto do that today, but I believe
(51:44):
that decisions and beliefs andactions in a business start with
who we are and who we believeourselves to be.
So, for example, let's justmake it super practical.
One common challenge that a lotof folks will come to me with
around that six figure level isthey feel like they're stretched
(52:04):
too thin because they'rehandling everything themselves
and they're operating in a waythat actually was really useful
when they first started theirbusiness, because they had to
get scrappy and figure thingsout, but now they're juggling
too many plates, they've gottheir hand in 10,000 different
things and that way of operatingis no longer sustainable to
(52:26):
help them break through to thatnext level.
And so you could look at thebusiness externally.
You could say, okay, well, youneed to get better at delegating
and you can need to get betterat it, and so many coaches or
mentors or business strategistswill do that and some people
will be able to make that shift,but it's the identity that's
creating those behaviors, and soif that person sees themselves
(52:49):
as a six figure entrepreneur,well, they're going to hang on
to control and even if they knowintellectually that they need
to delegate, they're not goingto do it Because their identity
is telling them well, it doesn'tmake sense for me to do this,
or I don't have the money to doit, or I want to hang on to
control so I can maintain thelevel of quality and the
standards that I have.
(53:10):
But if you just ask that person,if you just say I want you to
wake up every single morning andI want you to tell yourself I
am now a seven-figureentrepreneur, I lead my day as a
seven-figure entrepreneur, Imake decisions as a seven figure
entrepreneur, I lead my day asa seven figure entrepreneur, I
make decisions as a seven figureentrepreneur.
And you just do that for fiveminutes every single morning.
You just close your eyes andyou visualize what it's like to
move through your day as a sevenfigure entrepreneur.
(53:31):
Does a seven figureentrepreneur not have a team?
Does a seven figureentrepreneur hang on to 10,000
different things?
Does a seven figureentrepreneur not delegate?
No, all those things willnaturally fix themselves if that
person is just living from theidentity of the seven figure
entrepreneur.
So in business it's like we lookfor the point of highest
leverage.
(53:51):
It's like, okay, what's thelead domino that's going to
knock down 10,000 other dominoes?
If I can just press that onedomino down, you can spend all
day trying to fix things in theland of strategy, but if you
just give somebody a newidentity, those things will sort
themselves out.
So, to make it practical, Iwould ask yourself whoever's
listening, like wherever you arein your business okay, what's
(54:13):
my next level?
Where do I want to be next?
And then, who's the person whohas already created that success
?
And every single day, spendfive minutes imagining what it's
like to be that person, andyou'll find that the strategy
the external, things will sortthemselves out.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Man see, guys, you need to go check out Jason's
stuff.
You can tell he's just a gooddude, he's polished, he knows
what he's talking about, he'sgot some great frameworks.
No-transcript, just somethingwe've already talked about today
(55:09):
.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Um, but just in kind of like short form, tell me,
tell me what's one unknownsecret of internet marketing I
would say for me, the more I'veI've been doing this and I I
mean I've been doing internetmarketing for about 20 years now
the less I see it as internetmarketing and the more I see it
as just human connection.
(55:30):
That I used to see it asthere's something I need to do
to set up funnels and createthese systems and things.
Now I just see it as this isjust a simple act of connecting
with another human being.
And how do I do that using thismedium?
(55:55):
It's like if I wanted to have aconversation with you, matt, I
could call you up on the phone,I could send you a text message,
I could shoot you an email or Icould say, hey, let's go out to
coffee.
And it'd still be the sameconversation.
There's some nuances around howI might frame that.
I might use some emojis if I'msending you a text, but at the
end of the day, the substance ofthat conversation is not going
to change.
And so I think the big secretof internet marketing is, the
(56:19):
less that you see it as internetmarketing, the more that you
realize what you're actuallydoing, which is marketing, is
just a means to an end.
It's just how are wefacilitating these connections
and building trust andrelationships with people?
The more that I see it as thisvery human process, the simpler
it becomes, the more these toolsstart to feel less like these
(56:42):
big, complicated systems that Idon't understand and more as
just these tools, just like aphone or just like an email or
just like a text.
It's the same thing.
It's human connection, and Ithink that's the big unspoken
secret to internet marketing.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
I love that.
I couldn't say it better myself.
Guys, jason Moss, jason, ifpeople want to find out more
about you know you big onYouTube where else can they find
you?
Where can they connect with youand just have that genuine
connection?
Because I think you really comefrom a really centered place
and I think that that couldbenefit a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
Thank you, and thank you forthe opportunity again to get to
share with your audience.
There's a couple of places youcan connect with me on a deeper
level.
I would say go to Jason Mosscom.
Jasonmosscom, that's our huband you can link.
There's a link to our YouTubechannel where I post tons of
free trainings and resources.
There's a free guide there, ourseven figure scaling guide,
(57:44):
which is super useful.
It actually walks through theCEO freedom formula in a lot
more detail, so you can go checkthat out if you want to learn
more about that and shoot me amessage.
Let me know what resonated withyou.
I'd love to hear from you.
I love getting to connect withpeople one-to-one.
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Awesome.
Well, everybody, that's JasonMoss.
Thank you for listening to theUnknown Secrets of Internet
Marketing.
I'm your host, matt Bertram.
If you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
valuable, powerful I don't evenknow how to say this anymore
tool on the planet, okay, theinternet.
Everything's changing.
Algorithms are everywhere.
You got to optimize everywhere,reach people across the board.
(58:23):
We help you build those.
In the level two of what Jasonwas talking about the funnels,
the strategies, the digital PR,the SEO, all that stuff.
We have a great team.
We've been doing it for a longtime and if you have questions
about that and want to learnmore about how it applies to
your business, reach out to EWRfor more revenue in your
(58:45):
business.
Again, I am your host, mattBertram.
Until the next time, bye-byefor now.
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