May 18, 2025 • 39 mins
Ted Ted DeBettencourt from Juvo Leads shares how human-powered chat services capture significantly more leads than AI alternatives for businesses with high-value customers. Data shows that human operators outperform chatbots by at least 200% in converting website visitors to qualified leads, particularly for law firms, elective medicine, home services, and retirement communities.
• Human-powered chat services capture 50-60% more leads compared to websites without chat functionality
• Businesses should consider chat services when they have 1,000+ monthly visitors, $2,000 in monthly ad spend, or $1,000+ customer lifetime value
• The "12-second rule" reveals that 40% of potential leads are lost when chat responses take longer than 12 seconds
• While AI bots excel at answering complex questions, humans significantly outperform in converting inquiries into leads
• Proactive chat (video or pop-up) generates substantially more engagement than reactive chat that requires visitor initiation
• For businesses in regulated industries, using AI to collect sensitive information may create legal vulnerabilities
• Human operators should communicate with prospects through their preferred channels rather than forcing them into specific communication methods
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Guest Contact Information:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/theodoremdebettencourt/
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Howdy, matt Bertram, here I have a podcast for you
today that, before we get intoit, I just wanted to kind of tee
up a few things that maybe wemissed in the conversation that
we had a great post conversationabout, and also let you know
that this was a longtimelistener that works in the
chatbot space and I was reallyasking more questions to kind of
(00:21):
process it live.
It maybe turned into a littlebit of a debate.
I think it ended really nicelyand we had a lot of positive
conversation.
After the fact, we all know AIis coming and we are starting to
leverage a lot of AI.
I think that AI is never goingto replace humans and I think
(00:42):
that there's a lot of greatvalue in this podcast.
Some of the things I want tohighlight is, if you're going to
be using a live chat service,one of the key components to
look for is a thousand visitorsa month or $2,000 in spend, so
that kind of equates to the sameand then an LTV lifetime value
(01:04):
of the customer of about athousand bucks.
So if the lifetime value isabout a thousand bucks and you
have a thousand visitors to yoursite and you're spending $2,000
a month, a chatbot is a greatcandidate for you, one of the
things that we also talked aboutin the podcast because, as you
(01:24):
know, I've been a heavyproponent of SEO.
What I'm seeing in the data nowis more of a broader marketing
funnel.
He would rather have a hot leadthat comes in through PPC and
he believes they perform a lotbetter.
And if you were a little birdieon the wall, if you like this
podcast, you would really likethe debate where he was talking
(01:49):
about an organic visitor versusa paid visitor.
I think what he was talkingabout was the paid visitor is
searching for a specific keywordright, and they click on that
ad based upon well, the metadescription would be the
equivalent of the ad to thelanding page, to the website.
I believe that a high qualitySEO lead that you're ranking for
(02:11):
the right quality keywords willgive you equal to or better
type of client, and I've seenthat with a lot of our clients.
The feedback that I've gottenis SEO produces a higher quality
lead than paid ads, and so ifyou're comparing organic to paid
(02:32):
, it's like apples to oranges.
But if you're comparing highgrowth organic to paid, I
haven't done that study, or Iknow people have.
If you've done that study.
Please reach out to me and letme know more.
I hope you all enjoy thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
My name is Matt Bertram.
I wanted to start theconversation by talking about
some of the new updates withGoogle.
I know that human interactionis important.
We're going to talk aboutchatbots everyone we're going to
talk about, well, chatbotsversus human interaction and why
(03:28):
connecting with somebody earlyon is so important.
So I decided to bring Ted DBetancourt on, who has Juvo
Leads, who actually runs a humanpowered chatbot service across
multiple mediums, and wanted himto talk about kind of what he's
seen in the space.
So, ted, thanks for coming on.
(03:49):
Yeah, matt, thanks for havingme on.
Pleasure to be here.
Yeah, so what's most topical toyou of kind of like all the new
changes in the space, becauseeverything's moving so quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Sure, well, I love the chatbot space because we
don't do chatbots, we dochatbots.
Our motto is butts in the seat,not bots in the cloud.
So, as more AI comes out andthere's more AI solutions out
there I love it because rightnow, none of them are as
effective in humans as beingable to convert a website
visitor into a lead.
There's a lot of solutions outthere and for the clientele that
(04:21):
we serve, we can outperform thebest of them by capturing at
least 200% more leads.
And we know this because we'redoing probably like right now,
with about 30 to 40 AB splittests, testing against ourselves
, different tags and differentways we open chats versus
testing the competitors.
And right now, the AI powerchat you can tell it's a robot
(04:43):
pretty quick, whereas whenyou're chatting with us, you can
tell it's a robot pretty quick,whereas when you're chatting
with us, you can tell it's ahuman pretty quick, and that
human connection really brings ameaningful difference in the
amount of leads we're able tocapture for our clients.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So how did you?
How did you get into this space?
Like I just want to know what,what kind of drives you?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Sure, Well, I was a digital marketer.
I ran an SEO PPC shop in Boston, did it for about eight, nine
years.
I had a fairly good, stable baseof clients.
And then I started using thedifferent chat products in the
market.
This was before AI, but thebots they were really just
if-then statements, the bots,the human powered ones and the
(05:21):
self-answering ones.
And when I used the ones thathad other people answering it
and they were 24-, were 24,seven, three, 65, I really liked
it because they got my clientsa lot more leads.
At the time I was working with alot of law firms, home service
businesses, elective medicine,think uh, you know, cosmetic,
dermatology, stuff like that,dentists and then a retirement
home.
So those were kind of theverticals I was serving and I
(05:44):
really liked what they weredoing for chat.
But I didn't like how they'reanswering some of the chats.
So I was using all the onesthat were on the market at the
time and some of them most ofthem are still around.
And I kept saying, hey guys,can you make some changes to the
scripts?
Like, say things a little bitdifferently, use the language
I'm giving you.
And they said, sure, ted, we'llmake those changes.
(06:20):
And lo and behold, they didn't.
So I got kind of frustrated.
I kept saying come on, guys,you got to make this change
Because my clients were yellingat me like Ted, they're saying
the wrong things.
I know you like it, but come on.
And the numbers were good.
But I was getting enough heatfrom my clients.
So it started as me.
Answering chats for 10businesses in Boston has now
turned into us as a companyanswering chats for about 1100
businesses around the country.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, wow, impressive .
So when people are taught,let's back up, okay, let's back
all the way up to one of the bigkind of data points that I see
is you have to hit people whenthey're in the mode to buy right
(06:53):
, like, and if, if you know,they fill out information, okay,
you try to get them on ameeting or whatever.
But until they're ready to comeback into that buy cycle,
they're they're not a prospectright, they're doing other stuff
, they're here or there, andwhat it does is it lengthens the
sales cycle right To close thedeal If you can get somebody
(07:13):
early on and you can move themfurther down your sales funnel.
So can you speak to that kindof concept specifically?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, I'll tell you we don't serve every vertical.
We don't touch B2B.
If you're in a B2B business,human power chat like a service
that you're hiring somebody elsefor might not be a great fit.
Here's why People come to a B2Bwebsite and they say tell me
about you.
Know they come to your site,matt, tell me about how you do
SEO and why PPC or why I shoulddo LSA ads or something like
(07:43):
that.
We'd say that's a greatquestion for Matt.
I'd love to set you up with atime to talk to him.
They say, no, I just want myquestion answered now.
So we don't serve every vertical.
We're very big in the legalspace the home services,
retirement homes and what's thelast one Elective medicine.
That's kind of the verticals weserve.
So I don't really know muchoutside of that.
When we try B2B, it's hit ormiss.
(08:05):
So, on the verticals that weserve, what we find is it's not
people coming to the site andsaying, hey, I want to get a
free consultation, I want to setup an appointment, I want to
learn about moving in.
It's people coming to thewebsite and saying, hey, I have
a question.
I think your business might beable to help me solve it.
Can I give you more informationand you tell me the answer?
So not all of our leads arestarting off saying like, hey, I
(08:26):
want to be a lead.
They're starting up with aquestion, we're giving them a
little bit of information,qualifying that person and then
turning their information.
Once we've built a little bitof trust and rapport with them
through having aperson-to-person communication,
then we're able to turn thatinto an actual lead for the
business.
And what we see is that whenbusinesses put us on a website,
they get at least 50% more leads.
(08:48):
And we know this because we doa lot of AB testing half the
traffic with chat, half thetraffic without chat.
After 30 days we give everyonea free trial.
After 30 days we just sit downwith the business owner Did you
get more leads?
How many did you get last month?
How many did you get this month?
If the answer isn't yes, theywalk away and they've paid $0.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, so have you done any A-B testing against AI
All the time?
Okay, can you share some of theresults, of kind of how you set
up the study and then what youdid and what the results were?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Sure, so there's not a lot of great AI in the market
for what we're doing.
Sure, so there's not a lot ofgreat AI in the market for what
we're doing Human powered chatfor law firms, elective medicine
, home retirement, retirementhomes and home services the ones
we have do.
What we do is we do a splittest.
So how that works is someonecomes to the website half the
time they see us, half the timethey see the AI chat.
After 30 days, we sit down withthe client and look at the data
(09:42):
.
We say who got you more leads,who got you more cases, jobs,
move-ins, appointments, and thenanytime we don't win, I've
never not beaten AI chat bygetting a business at least 200%
more leads.
Again, I'm not serving B2B.
I know AI and using the driftsand the what's the other one,
(10:03):
the drifts and the versions ofthat is great for B2B Intercom
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So I can tell you, you know, if you build a library
of information and someone asksa question, okay, and, and, and
you get like a AI agent, asemi-autonomous AI, to answer
that, if, if you trained it, itcan actually answer those
(10:29):
questions pretty effectively.
Now it can't say, it can't saySEO very well, okay, but we
actually have.
If you call us, you know you'll, you'll get to the right person
.
We can answer questions.
It's all AI and it's learnedand it's trained and there's a
lot of services out there andyou can use that and you know, I
think it's been prettyeffective and you know,
(10:52):
certainly like I would like to.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It's cost effective for sure.
If you take, if you took allthat and trained a person to do
it, you'd have a much highersuccess rate, because people
don't like talking to AI.
Yet If people still call thephone or chat, if they find out,
our most common questionnowadays is are you a robot or a
real person?
We say real, real person andthey do that.
When we don't do a good jobconvincing them, they just get
(11:15):
frustrated and leave.
We've tried, we've looked intothe phone answering side.
We'd like it, but for ourverticals where a lead, a case
is worth, you know, thousandsand thousands of dollars.
Saving a little bit of moneyusing AI isn't worth it if you
have 50% less leads.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
No, I, I I certainly agree with you in certain skill
sets or certain industries,right.
So certainly retirementcommunities you know people are
a little unsure have maybe, likeI wouldn't say they're the
Luddites, but like they'reunsure about technology, they
want to talk to a person.
I think that some of the peopleoutsourcing call answering
(11:53):
services to overseas, just kindof, you know, without great
training, people have their ownimpressions of that.
I do agree with, like lawyersor things like that, depending
on the case size, what it'sgoing to be like.
It depends what you're using itfor, and I think there's a
place for everything.
I also think that there's a wayto escalate things and so you
(12:16):
have a decision tree of comingin asking a question and so the
voices in AI, and again, I don'twant to necessarily make this
into a debate, because I thinkthat having ways to connect with
people and answer theirquestions effectively is what
it's about, and catchingsomebody in that bicycle, and
(12:38):
certainly the reason that thatthat I wanted to connect with
you is these things are becominga reality.
Let's talk about the Google.
Let's talk about the GoogleGoogle business profile update,
right when, where now there's achat function associated with
that and, um, you know it makesa lot of sense to be able to
(13:01):
connect with the real person andget something moving.
Uh is incredibly importanttoday, again, if you're catching
that person that is in thebicycle and they're trying to
make a decision, if you can'tanswer their question and move
there again.
Going back to what you weresaying, though, on training the
person, well, you know peoplewant to be able to answer their
(13:22):
question, and I can see on theb2b side.
But, again, if I think about, Ithink this through, you can
upload um into the library likea whole website.
Okay, with the ai and anythingthat's on the website.
If they've done a good jobthrough their web development
side of things, you can pull anyof that information.
So you have a large website, ahospital system, a retirement
(13:45):
community any of those questionsthat AI is going to be able to
answer that question more than ahuman.
Now, the report component of itis also not there when you're
in chat, unless it's voiceactivated.
Wait, I don't know.
I'm trying to discover this.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Let me say it a different way.
If you think of chat, if youhave a complex subject so a lot
of our clients do let's saythey're doing mass torts, so
it's a law firm that helpspeople if they have some
respiratory illness.
I know Camp Lejeune was a bigone for a while, so there's a
lot of caveats to what makes fora good Camp Lejeune case.
(14:23):
They'll come to there and theywant to find out if I have a
case or not.
When you use a robot to answerthose, you can always get the
right answer, or you have abetter job training that robot
to know the different answers toquestions, because you've seen
all the questions and you haveit, whereas you know you can
give upload thousands of FAQs,whereas we don't have that
(14:44):
ability to answer that manyquestions.
So if you think about it likethat, robots AI will do a better
job there.
If you're talking about thesales component, which is
converting a question into alead, right now humans
significantly outperform AI.
When it gets to the point wherethe pendulum switches shoot,
(15:07):
we'll be the first ones on theAI trine, but right now what we
see is when people are havingconversations.
They want to talk to a personand have an empathetic,
one-on-one conversation Our datasuggests and why we grew at
least 100% for the past fouryears.
What our data suggests is thatby having real people and having
empathetic conversations, we'renot getting the.
(15:27):
Oh, I just want to talk to aperson like a lot of our AI
counterparts get.
So, as of for now, we'renoticing and we're able to
convert a lot more leads from awebsite.
Are we able to have the amountof in-depth conversations and
can we answer 500 FAQs like anAI can?
Absolutely not.
So I still love chat supportwith AI.
I think you can do things thatare incredible with it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I can see that.
I can see that.
Now the way I'm starting tokind of process it in my head is
that you know, when you look atads on Google and you look at
SEO, okay, only about 20% ofpeople click on ads.
If you do a study and ask evenpeople not a lot of people click
(16:11):
on both, so they either skipthe ads, and that's why Google
tries to hide the way the adslook right, they're always
trying to change it up andpeople just keep skipping the
ads, and that's why Google triesto hide the way the ads look,
Right, they're always trying tochange it up and and people just
keep skipping the ads.
But the ads has produced them,like one of the largest
companies in the world and likeit's it's the majority of all
their revenue and, and so youknow ads are effective.
(16:33):
I believe in getting in front ofpeople and getting your
advertising and your brand outthere, but the more in-depth
stuff is answered through theresearch and the questions and
stuff like that, and so I seethat differential and I see
specific industries, certainthings working better than
others, vice versa.
Like, okay, you need a plumber.
(16:53):
Like immediately right, Likethere's a busted pipe or your
air conditioning is out, it's inthe summer, Like you need a.
You need a plumber, likeimmediately right.
Like there's a busted pipe oryour air condition is out, it's
in the summer, Like you needsomebody right now.
You're not going to do theresearch, right, so that if I
take that kind of like 80, 20, Ican, I can see that um in in
the human side of things, Um,and I would tell you I'm not
going to say which one's the 80and which one's the 20.
Um, cause I don't know, I don'thave enough data like that.
(17:16):
You're you're the, you're theexpert in that.
But but I do see, in certainindustries, specifically when
you're dealing with, when youneed to define what your target
audience is, who you'retargeting is audiences like the
older generation want to talk tosomebody.
The younger generation, youknow, depending on what you're
selling, uh, you don't want totalk to anybody.
(17:36):
Like you want to order pizza.
Yeah, like you don't want totalk to anybody.
Like people, right, like Ireally agree so.
So, like you're ordering food,like you're like I don't want to
talk to anybody, like I justwant.
I just want to get what I'mlooking for.
I want to get to answer myquestion.
You know we used to do likethis profiles, like different
type of people, certain peoplelike the chat, you chat, you
know.
Now, you know again, I do thinkthat the curve is exponential
(17:59):
because I can tell you, from asales standpoint, some of the
trained AIs Right so you're,you're training them, not just
like kind of like what, what thebase feed is like?
And and also capturing the data, like a Tesla car Right, so
you're, you're capturing all thedata of how to answer it, how
to answer it better.
I had a previous guest on andwe've actually implemented this
(18:23):
on all our sales calls how couldwe have done better?
Like, how do we improve that?
And then, eventually, withenough data of how we want to
process, it's going to learnthat and it's going to be able
to do that better and I thinkit's going to be able to do it
pretty quick process.
It's going to learn that andit's going to be able to do that
better, and I think it's goingto be able to do it pretty quick
, and so you know so.
So I think that there'sdefinitely people and I would
(18:45):
fall into this category too oflike I don't want to talk to a
call center overseas,necessarily.
I want someone that understandswhat I'm talking about and what
I'm saying and and what I'mdoing.
Let's dig into the industrieswhere you're seeing the biggest
success and where you've grownthe business the most.
Let's talk about case studiesin those areas, because there's
(19:07):
a lot of people from a lot ofdifferent industries that listen
to this.
They're trying to figure outhow to make their digital
marketing work, and so I agreethat you to capture their
information early.
If you can engage them early,move them further down the sales
process.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
You do it?
Do you build it?
It sounds like I'm kind ofconflicting with you.
It sounds like you build AIbots for your clients.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I have not ever built the AI bot for any clients.
No um no, I'm not.
I I'm not in the AI bot space.
That's something that I thinkis cool technology for sure.
Yeah, no, that's why I'm asking.
I mean, like, certainly, havinga live chat is is a huge
component to answer questions,but if it's to set up just a
(19:52):
call and and they're vettingsomebody on how to do it, I have
used a lot of different toolsand I'm just sharing with you my
experience of, like, if you'reasking qualifying questions,
you're being empathetic.
Like you know, you're answeringa few questions 80% of time.
That works.
I think that what you're doingcan work extremely effective
(20:17):
when you have the right targetaudience.
So that's why I want to diveinto what are those target
audiences?
And, yes, the AI bot can upsetpeople, just like answering
stuff overseas.
Like, if people don't like thator they're not trained good,
like they just bail Right, and Iabsolutely see that in a decent
(20:37):
sized segment.
And so I want to tell you, yes,that I agree with you on that.
And so let's double down onthat and go into those areas
where you've grown the most andseen the biggest success, like,
let's maybe talk about somedifferent specific case studies
that you've done in theretirement community space or
(20:59):
the law firms.
Tell me about home services Iknow it looks like you do.
Digital agencies and localbusinesses Can you talk about
maybe each segment specifically,what you've seen work well,
sure.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So let me tell you about probably about 65% of our
maybe 75% of our clients are lawfirms, so we do consumer side
law firms and the biggestconsumer side law firm in the
digital marketing space iscalled personal injury.
That means you know caraccident lawyers someone that's
been working Yep.
Yep, those types of claims.
So in that market the personalinjury space, the top 3000 PI
(21:35):
spaces in the market 85% of themuse human power chat.
So it's not we don't have 85%of the PI market, I'm sad to say
, but so it's not just us.
There's a lot of companiesdoing what we're doing.
So in those spaces they usehuman power chat.
It costs more money to usepeople than AI and it frankly
does like there's no way aroundit.
That's just a robot versus youknow, versus the AI.
(21:56):
Costs aren't that high.
People costs are higherTraining a team, keep them
updated on the chat scripts, therules for each particular firm.
That gets pretty complex.
But why that industry inparticular has adopted human
powered chat is because theyhave a lot of good marketing
people that measure the results.
So, for example, when we wentlive with a firm I'll say the
(22:17):
name's, firm name out inIllinois, pialetti Law what we
did is they said Ted, I like theidea of chat.
This is a guy named JoePialetti.
Ted, I like the idea of chat,but I don't think it's going to
get me more leads.
I said Joe, what do you mean?
He said Ted, I think you'regoing to steal my phone calls.
So what do you mean by that?
He's like well, if someonecomes to my site and they would
text or chat with you, theyprobably just would have called
(22:39):
you.
I'm like oh, I see what you'resaying.
So you're thinking that we'renot going to get you more leads,
we're just going to take awayyour phone calls?
He said yeah.
I said, all right, well, let'stest that hypothesis.
So what we did for Joe and we doit for literally every client
we work with is we give them a30-day trial.
So we typically just give themit free for 30 days and say how
many leads you get before, howmany leads you get after.
But what we did for Joe is wesplit all his traffic into two
(23:01):
groups.
Group A had chat on, group Bhad chat off.
We also can do call and formtracking so we can really
isolate chat as a variable.
So we did that for and I talkabout this story a lot we did
that test for 30 days and afterthe 30 day free trial the group
with chat on had 159 leads.
The group with chat off had 103.
(23:22):
So we're able to conclusivelyprove that because of chat and
chat alone, we got them aboutwhat's that 55, 60% more total
leads.
Because of chat, I'm fuzzy onthe numbers.
I'm used to, you know, lookingat a slide deck when I talk
about this.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No, no, I that's.
This is the kind of informationthat I'm looking for to to
understand, like data-driven ummarketing.
Um, I love that.
I now I'm looking at your siteright now Um, does it have any
kind of movement?
Does it, does it pop up?
Or people are um raising theirhand and they're choosing to
(23:59):
engage.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Good question and really, how you start chat
varies.
We have a million and a halfconfiguration options.
That's best for that business,but what we found is the two
main ways you do it.
You play a video of thebusiness owner to start the
conversation.
Build empathy.
Get the brand name for thebusiness owner out there.
Owner to start the conversation.
Build empathy.
Get the brand name for thebusiness owner out there and
then, using that, start aconversation short video 10, 20
(24:22):
seconds saying who you are, howyou hype your clients, and then
from there, amy pops up or Sallyor Steve or Jay and we have a
real conversation with them.
There's different pop-outs anddifferent layouts,
configurations.
We do, but we don't like towait for the.
We call it reactive chat If youhave a reactive chat meaning
someone has to click to start,versus something happening.
(24:43):
So we either play a video or wepop up and say, hey, how can I
help you?
Today, by having that proactivetalk, you're able to have a
much higher chat start rate and,like anything, the more swings
at the bat you get, the morehome runs you have.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, anything, the more swings at the bat you get,
the more home runs you have.
Yeah, I mean, I, I can see, uh,like in the affiliate marketing
space, um, you know, as, as wemoved into that with like
different kinds of products andstuff like that, uh, we, we have
a supplement company, um, andand essentially, uh, what I can
tell you is most people juststart bidding on your own name,
right, and the conversion rate.
And also a lot of agencies, thebigger agencies, that kind of
obscure.
What's going on?
Uh, and they're running youknow one account managers
(25:25):
running 80, you know a hundredsomething accounts.
Like I mean, they're trying tohit certain metrics and they're
making it look like a certainway in my and this has been my
opinion, this is just mypersonal experience that I'm um
speaking and this has been myopinion, this is just my
personal experience that I'mspeaking to when clients come to
us and when we, you know, tryto get access to the data, you
know certain things look reallygood, and so I can see how a law
(25:49):
firm would say, hey, you'rejust swapping.
You know, rob and Peter to payPaul here.
It's just a different format.
I also, I would agree with you,because different people like to
engage different ways.
Like I talked about that kindof disc profile.
You know, some people want totalk to somebody on the phone,
some people want to the oldschool call the 1-800 numbers,
right, like that's kind of like.
(26:09):
Some people want to watch avideo, some people want to chat.
Like I can tell you I don'ttext anymore.
Like I video chat or I, youknow, do a like a recorded video
where I'm talking.
Like I don't like typinganymore, like I've just decided
I don't like to do it.
Like will I do it, sure, ifthat's the only option.
But, like you're, you're tryingto reduce friction and I agree
(26:30):
with you that, no matter whatyou're doing, you're trying to
hit somebody in the right senseand you're to reduce that
friction as as quickly as youcan.
Um, okay, so um, I I agree withyou on on law firms.
Why do you think?
Um that?
Why do you think that thathappened that way?
Right, why do you?
(26:50):
What?
Like what you've?
You have enough of thesebusinesses.
You've scaled it.
You data, why?
Why is that chatbot workingbetter than um?
Like I mean, a lot of peoplerun the chatbots to.
Uh, if they're a smallerbusiness, cause you.
You deal with local businesses.
They'll just run it tothemselves or someone marketing
on their team.
(27:11):
Um, like, what's thedifferential if someone is going
hey, okay, uh, I'm going toweigh the AI chatbots, what's
the comparison?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
versus in-house Sure.
So what's the differencebetween an AI chatbot versus
doing it in-house?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
No, no, no.
So we don't need to go down therabbit hole of a live person
versus the chatbot.
Now I'm talking about, you know, if we're talking about law
firms or we're talking aboutbigger companies, they might
have somebody dedicated that'sanswering the phone.
Why don't they have that personanswering the chatbot as well?
Or like what are the scenarioswhere that would work?
(27:54):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So the analysis I said about the law firms, that's
true for any big home servicebusiness as well.
I'm not talking about the pestcontrol where you get a contract
it's maybe 300 bucks a year butthe roofing job, the plastic
surgeon, the cosmeticdermatology, the retirement home
, when a sale or lead is worthnorth of a thousand dollars, the
(28:15):
economics of human power chatpay off.
And so why shouldn't they do itin-house?
Well, if they can do itin-house, they should.
In my space there are a fewbusinesses that do it in-house
Morgan Morgan.
They have their own human powerchat team.
The reason why most firms, eventhe ones that have 200 lawyers
(28:36):
as opposed to 300.
If you have 200 lawyers and youhave 24-7 coverage so you can
answer every chat in 12 secondsor less, then you should do it
in house.
The hard thing about chat is ifa chat comes in and my team
waits 20 seconds to answer it,I've lost 40% of the chats.
You have to answer chats in 12seconds or less or you lose the
(28:56):
chatter.
So when that firm with 12lawyers and four and five intake
specialists say hey, we'regoing to do this ourselves.
Sarah, michael and Jim aregoing to answer chats 24 for us
during the day.
You tried at night.
We say, okay, give it your bestshot.
If you don't like the resultsyou're seeing, try us.
So what happens is Mike takes asmoke break, sarah goes on
(29:18):
lunch, julie's on on holidaywe're busy doing other stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
They're busy running the business.
They're doing other things.
Someone needs to be dedicatedto to doing this exactly and
it's just that 12 seconds therule.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
When I tell people the 20 second rule, no one
believes me.
And then they start answeringtheir chats like they're like oh
I can't believe I this chat.
The amount of lost chats youget when you try to do it in
house is astronomical.
What we do is we literallygrade and score every chat by
how fast their team answers it.
So our agents are hired, fired,promoted, demoted and bonused
based on how well and how fastthey answer chats.
And it has to be fast or we getfired.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I like that.
So basically, there's on oneend, doing it yourself on the
other, and there's AI.
You're operating in that thatmiddle, certainly right now.
Um, uh, increasing the, theresponse rates, right, uh,
increases sales Absolutely.
Um, be able to understand thenuances where AI is going to get
, uh, tripped up, um, you know,in-house.
They may be able to understandthe nuances where AI is going to
get tripped up.
In-house, they may be able toanswer it better.
(30:21):
Or your team might not have allthe information, but if they're
not getting that person on thehook and not dedicated to that
conversation, they're not goingto answer it very well.
So I'm starting to think thatAI, support-powered human is
probably the best route to go.
Again, when you're talkingabout high powered or leads that
(30:45):
are worth a lot, right, um?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
yeah, if you can, if you can find a lot of the people
in my space are trying to dothe ai and then having a human
takeover and that's what we'reseeing a lot of a competition
doing.
We don't touch AI yet on thatfront yet because we're
dedicated to our bots, not bots,and we know there are legal
implications when you startgetting personal information via
(31:09):
AI that a lot of our clientsdon't want to deal with.
So if you're getting personalhealth information from a chat
bot, you're opening the door tolegal implications.
So you got to be careful and alot of the verticals we're in.
So you know law law, electivemedicine, retirement homes.
That's sensitive information.
Do we want to give that data tochat GPT?
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, I mean, a lot of these companies are are
basically carving it off.
So where they can use the,where they can use the code, but
they're using it in-house and Ithink that that's a
consideration.
Can you speak any more to the,your money, your life, kind of
areas where that information issensitive and people need to be
(31:50):
critically thinking or doublethinking about how they approach
that?
Right?
Sure, say that again.
So what are these legalimplications Like?
If someone's out there liketrying to consider these things
like you know they theydefinitely don't need to be just
a lot of these companies.
I think it depends what they'redoing.
(32:11):
You got to look at their termsof service, but where that
information is being fed to,because there are a lot of these
chatbots that are just bolt-onsor AI agents of ChatGPT and
that information flows up.
So how comfortable are you withtalking about some of the
specifics of the legal Well, I'mnot a lawyer, I'm not gonna.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
I have a law degree and I don't wanna give legal
advice.
I know, if I pretend to givelegal advice, that opens up the
window, but I'll say this thereare law firms that are getting
sued from using AI wrongfully.
What it is basically right noware there are people that find
out.
So, for example, one of thebiggest firms in the world used
an AI to write a brief and theydidn't check it.
(32:54):
The AI used a lot of fakecasers that didn't exist because
they call phantom answers.
They gave a bunch of phantomanswers.
The person submitted that.
The person that was for thatfirm found out it was a small
lawsuit, but they turned aroundand sued that law firm for using
their information illegally andnow they're on the hook for a
big settlement.
So there are ramifications forusing AI.
(33:17):
I don't know much about it.
I just know there are cases outthere.
I know it's something mycompetitors have to deal with
but honestly, in the human inthe chat space for sales, I
haven't.
I don't bump into it that muchbecause the businesses that I
deal with are the high that,like a sale is worth a lot, case
is worth a lot, move in.
So they know that AI isn'tthere yet for their space.
(33:38):
When it starts to be, it'sgoing to become more.
It's usually the smaller ticketitems and the smaller websites
that are looking for the nextshiny thing are the ones that
are playing with it.
In the chat side there's plentyof good use cases for AI, but I
haven't seen a competitor comeout and say, ted, we can get as
many leads as you.
I haven't seen anything closeyet any competitor come out and
say Ted we can get as many leadsas you like.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I haven't seen anything close yet.
Yeah, no, I think, uh, I thinkthat there's some delicate areas
, for sure, and there's uh pause, uh, people need to take pause
to, to consider all thoseramifications of of how that's
built out.
I mean, is there anything elsethat you're kind of seeing in
the future of live chat andtrends, uh, that are coming up
that you could speak to, or doyou just kind of have a feeling
(34:20):
that that's going to starthappening?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Sure, well, I mean, it's already happening.
It's just as it gets better.
It'll become more and more sowhat would probably happen will
be a hybrid approach kind of theapproach I talked about earlier
, where it starts with AI, thenmoves to human and then
eventually just kick human outof there, eventually fully.
But we're on the cutting edge.
We're paying attention to allthe competitors because we want
to see the minute someone can doit, to the point where we get a
(34:42):
little bit scared.
Then we start adopting thosepractices ourselves.
We haven't seen it.
What we have seen is wheneveryone's talking about AI more
, that means people areneglecting SMS.
So the better you can serveyour clients through talking to
them with the channel that theyuse their phone for the most
that's SMS the bigger advantageyou'll have.
So not only just answering thewebsite chats, but being able to
(35:02):
communicate with client viatext, being able to answer them
in the preferred method thattheir prospect reached out to
them.
So we're just seeing it everyyear, the percent of our leads
for our clients that come infrom text the text you know the
phone is increasing.
So the better we can, thebetter businesses like us can
serve that vertical or thatcommunication method, the better
(35:25):
we'll all do.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, no, I, I a hundred percent agree that.
You know you need to connectwith people immediately.
You know talking, connectingthrough the phone and SMS is
there you mentioned earlier.
There's there, you know.
So somebody now has listened tothis podcast and they're like,
okay, I need a solution for thisright.
(35:49):
How should someone look for aservice provider?
And then, what are some commonmistakes when they're trying to
set the business that they mightneed to keep an eye out for?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
If you're look for ones that we're not the only
ones that give a 30-day freetrial.
You know, try it before you buyit.
I get, you know, I get thesecalls from these, I get these
emails from these companies thatdo like a voice call, an
outbound call service.
You go on their website.
You can't even hear the callsand you're hearing me like, well
, that's not there yet.
It's kind of garbage.
Try everyone, before you buy it, make sure their goals are
(36:23):
aligned with yours from apricing structure perspective.
A flat rate price withoutknowing what you're going to get
doesn't make sense.
I would try to talk there's alot of companies that do per
lead models and per qualifiedlead models.
Talk to the vendor or theprovider to make sure it's a
model that fits for yourbusiness, that corresponds with
your goals.
If you're trying to getappointments, make sure you pay
(36:45):
for per appointment, not just aflat rate model.
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All right.
So what would you say?
This is a newer space to a lotof people.
This is something that peopleknow that they need to be doing.
They're starting to take thataction.
I mean, what in everything thatyou've learned because you're
in it and out of it every day?
What's one unknown secret ofinternet marketing?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Talk to clients in the channel in which they want
to talk to you.
Don't force them into yourpreferred communication method
just because it's easier for you.
If clients want to text you,you text them back.
If a client wants to call you,you call them back.
If a client wants to email you,you email them back.
Clients want to fill out a form.
Get back to them, however theysaid they want to be contacted.
Don't force prospects intocommunicating in a way that
(37:34):
they're not comfortable with.
Meet them where they are andthen, once you have their
business, then you can startyour SOP, your standing operator
procedure, but not beforeyou've won their trust.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I love that.
So, ted, if somebody wants tofind out more about human
engaged, human powered chats andget a free trial because I
think that's awesome how do theyget in touch with you?
What's your preferred method ofthem reaching out to you?
Get on your website and chat.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
yet that's exactly right.
Go to jubileadscom, go to thewebsite, start a conversation
and uh see if you like what yousee.
And uh, the main reasonbusinesses use us because they
want at least 50% more leads.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
We give you the 50% more lead guarantee.
If we work with you and youdon't get 50% more leads, you
walk away and you've spent $0.
Hey, everyone, you can't beatthat.
So I would encourage you to gocheck it out.
Go check out what Ted's doing.
If you're looking to build somestrategy with your overall
marketing funnel, if you'rewilling to grow your business
with the largest, most powerfultool on the planet, the internet
, reach out to EWR Digital formore revenue in your business.
We work with all kinds ofvendors, and vendors like Ted
(38:47):
all the time.
Until the next time, my name isMatt Bertram.
Bye-bye for now, thank you.
Howdy, matt Bertram, here I have a podcast for you
today that, before we get intoit, I just wanted to kind of tee
up a few things that maybe wemissed in the conversation that
we had a great post conversationabout, and also let you know
that this was a longtimelistener that works in the
chatbot space and I was reallyasking more questions to kind of
(00:21):
process it live.
It maybe turned into a littlebit of a debate.
I think it ended really nicelyand we had a lot of positive
conversation.
After the fact, we all know AIis coming and we are starting to
leverage a lot of AI.
I think that AI is never goingto replace humans and I think
(00:42):
that there's a lot of greatvalue in this podcast.
Some of the things I want tohighlight is, if you're going to
be using a live chat service,one of the key components to
look for is a thousand visitorsa month or $2,000 in spend, so
that kind of equates to the sameand then an LTV lifetime value
(01:04):
of the customer of about athousand bucks.
So if the lifetime value isabout a thousand bucks and you
have a thousand visitors to yoursite and you're spending $2,000
a month, a chatbot is a greatcandidate for you, one of the
things that we also talked aboutin the podcast because, as you
(01:24):
know, I've been a heavyproponent of SEO.
What I'm seeing in the data nowis more of a broader marketing
funnel.
He would rather have a hot leadthat comes in through PPC and
he believes they perform a lotbetter.
And if you were a little birdieon the wall, if you like this
podcast, you would really likethe debate where he was talking
(01:49):
about an organic visitor versusa paid visitor.
I think what he was talkingabout was the paid visitor is
searching for a specific keywordright, and they click on that
ad based upon well, the metadescription would be the
equivalent of the ad to thelanding page, to the website.
I believe that a high qualitySEO lead that you're ranking for
(02:11):
the right quality keywords willgive you equal to or better
type of client, and I've seenthat with a lot of our clients.
The feedback that I've gottenis SEO produces a higher quality
lead than paid ads, and so ifyou're comparing organic to paid
(02:32):
, it's like apples to oranges.
But if you're comparing highgrowth organic to paid, I
haven't done that study, or Iknow people have.
If you've done that study.
Please reach out to me and letme know more.
I hope you all enjoy thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
My name is Matt Bertram.
I wanted to start theconversation by talking about
some of the new updates withGoogle.
I know that human interactionis important.
We're going to talk aboutchatbots everyone we're going to
talk about, well, chatbotsversus human interaction and why
(03:28):
connecting with somebody earlyon is so important.
So I decided to bring Ted DBetancourt on, who has Juvo
Leads, who actually runs a humanpowered chatbot service across
multiple mediums, and wanted himto talk about kind of what he's
seen in the space.
So, ted, thanks for coming on.
(03:49):
Yeah, matt, thanks for havingme on.
Pleasure to be here.
Yeah, so what's most topical toyou of kind of like all the new
changes in the space, becauseeverything's moving so quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Sure, well, I love the chatbot space because we
don't do chatbots, we dochatbots.
Our motto is butts in the seat,not bots in the cloud.
So, as more AI comes out andthere's more AI solutions out
there I love it because rightnow, none of them are as
effective in humans as beingable to convert a website
visitor into a lead.
There's a lot of solutions outthere and for the clientele that
(04:21):
we serve, we can outperform thebest of them by capturing at
least 200% more leads.
And we know this because we'redoing probably like right now,
with about 30 to 40 AB splittests, testing against ourselves
, different tags and differentways we open chats versus
testing the competitors.
And right now, the AI powerchat you can tell it's a robot
(04:43):
pretty quick, whereas whenyou're chatting with us, you can
tell it's a robot pretty quick,whereas when you're chatting
with us, you can tell it's ahuman pretty quick, and that
human connection really brings ameaningful difference in the
amount of leads we're able tocapture for our clients.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So how did you?
How did you get into this space?
Like I just want to know what,what kind of drives you?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Sure, Well, I was a digital marketer.
I ran an SEO PPC shop in Boston, did it for about eight, nine
years.
I had a fairly good, stable baseof clients.
And then I started using thedifferent chat products in the
market.
This was before AI, but thebots they were really just
if-then statements, the bots,the human powered ones and the
(05:21):
self-answering ones.
And when I used the ones thathad other people answering it
and they were 24-, were 24,seven, three, 65, I really liked
it because they got my clientsa lot more leads.
At the time I was working with alot of law firms, home service
businesses, elective medicine,think uh, you know, cosmetic,
dermatology, stuff like that,dentists and then a retirement
home.
So those were kind of theverticals I was serving and I
(05:44):
really liked what they weredoing for chat.
But I didn't like how they'reanswering some of the chats.
So I was using all the onesthat were on the market at the
time and some of them most ofthem are still around.
And I kept saying, hey guys,can you make some changes to the
scripts?
Like, say things a little bitdifferently, use the language
I'm giving you.
And they said, sure, ted, we'llmake those changes.
(06:20):
And lo and behold, they didn't.
So I got kind of frustrated.
I kept saying come on, guys,you got to make this change
Because my clients were yellingat me like Ted, they're saying
the wrong things.
I know you like it, but come on.
And the numbers were good.
But I was getting enough heatfrom my clients.
So it started as me.
Answering chats for 10businesses in Boston has now
turned into us as a companyanswering chats for about 1100
businesses around the country.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Okay, wow, impressive .
So when people are taught,let's back up, okay, let's back
all the way up to one of the bigkind of data points that I see
is you have to hit people whenthey're in the mode to buy right
(06:53):
, like, and if, if you know,they fill out information, okay,
you try to get them on ameeting or whatever.
But until they're ready to comeback into that buy cycle,
they're they're not a prospectright, they're doing other stuff
, they're here or there, andwhat it does is it lengthens the
sales cycle right To close thedeal If you can get somebody
(07:13):
early on and you can move themfurther down your sales funnel.
So can you speak to that kindof concept specifically?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, I'll tell you we don't serve every vertical.
We don't touch B2B.
If you're in a B2B business,human power chat like a service
that you're hiring somebody elsefor might not be a great fit.
Here's why People come to a B2Bwebsite and they say tell me
about you.
Know they come to your site,matt, tell me about how you do
SEO and why PPC or why I shoulddo LSA ads or something like
(07:43):
that.
We'd say that's a greatquestion for Matt.
I'd love to set you up with atime to talk to him.
They say, no, I just want myquestion answered now.
So we don't serve every vertical.
We're very big in the legalspace the home services,
retirement homes and what's thelast one Elective medicine.
That's kind of the verticals weserve.
So I don't really know muchoutside of that.
When we try B2B, it's hit ormiss.
(08:05):
So, on the verticals that weserve, what we find is it's not
people coming to the site andsaying, hey, I want to get a
free consultation, I want to setup an appointment, I want to
learn about moving in.
It's people coming to thewebsite and saying, hey, I have
a question.
I think your business might beable to help me solve it.
Can I give you more informationand you tell me the answer?
So not all of our leads arestarting off saying like, hey, I
(08:26):
want to be a lead.
They're starting up with aquestion, we're giving them a
little bit of information,qualifying that person and then
turning their information.
Once we've built a little bitof trust and rapport with them
through having aperson-to-person communication,
then we're able to turn thatinto an actual lead for the
business.
And what we see is that whenbusinesses put us on a website,
they get at least 50% more leads.
(08:48):
And we know this because we doa lot of AB testing half the
traffic with chat, half thetraffic without chat.
After 30 days we give everyonea free trial.
After 30 days we just sit downwith the business owner Did you
get more leads?
How many did you get last month?
How many did you get this month?
If the answer isn't yes, theywalk away and they've paid $0.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, so have you done any A-B testing against AI
All the time?
Okay, can you share some of theresults, of kind of how you set
up the study and then what youdid and what the results were?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Sure, so there's not a lot of great AI in the market
for what we're doing.
Sure, so there's not a lot ofgreat AI in the market for what
we're doing Human powered chatfor law firms, elective medicine
, home retirement, retirementhomes and home services the ones
we have do.
What we do is we do a splittest.
So how that works is someonecomes to the website half the
time they see us, half the timethey see the AI chat.
After 30 days, we sit down withthe client and look at the data
(09:42):
.
We say who got you more leads,who got you more cases, jobs,
move-ins, appointments, and thenanytime we don't win, I've
never not beaten AI chat bygetting a business at least 200%
more leads.
Again, I'm not serving B2B.
I know AI and using the driftsand the what's the other one,
(10:03):
the drifts and the versions ofthat is great for B2B Intercom
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So I can tell you, you know, if you build a library
of information and someone asksa question, okay, and, and, and
you get like a AI agent, asemi-autonomous AI, to answer
that, if, if you trained it, itcan actually answer those
(10:29):
questions pretty effectively.
Now it can't say, it can't saySEO very well, okay, but we
actually have.
If you call us, you know you'll, you'll get to the right person
.
We can answer questions.
It's all AI and it's learnedand it's trained and there's a
lot of services out there andyou can use that and you know, I
think it's been prettyeffective and you know,
(10:52):
certainly like I would like to.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
It's cost effective for sure.
If you take, if you took allthat and trained a person to do
it, you'd have a much highersuccess rate, because people
don't like talking to AI.
Yet If people still call thephone or chat, if they find out,
our most common questionnowadays is are you a robot or a
real person?
We say real, real person andthey do that.
When we don't do a good jobconvincing them, they just get
(11:15):
frustrated and leave.
We've tried, we've looked intothe phone answering side.
We'd like it, but for ourverticals where a lead, a case
is worth, you know, thousandsand thousands of dollars.
Saving a little bit of moneyusing AI isn't worth it if you
have 50% less leads.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
No, I, I I certainly agree with you in certain skill
sets or certain industries,right.
So certainly retirementcommunities you know people are
a little unsure have maybe, likeI wouldn't say they're the
Luddites, but like they'reunsure about technology, they
want to talk to a person.
I think that some of the peopleoutsourcing call answering
(11:53):
services to overseas, just kindof, you know, without great
training, people have their ownimpressions of that.
I do agree with, like lawyersor things like that, depending
on the case size, what it'sgoing to be like.
It depends what you're using itfor, and I think there's a
place for everything.
I also think that there's a wayto escalate things and so you
(12:16):
have a decision tree of comingin asking a question and so the
voices in AI, and again, I don'twant to necessarily make this
into a debate, because I thinkthat having ways to connect with
people and answer theirquestions effectively is what
it's about, and catchingsomebody in that bicycle, and
(12:38):
certainly the reason that thatthat I wanted to connect with
you is these things are becominga reality.
Let's talk about the Google.
Let's talk about the GoogleGoogle business profile update,
right when, where now there's achat function associated with
that and, um, you know it makesa lot of sense to be able to
(13:01):
connect with the real person andget something moving.
Uh is incredibly importanttoday, again, if you're catching
that person that is in thebicycle and they're trying to
make a decision, if you can'tanswer their question and move
there again.
Going back to what you weresaying, though, on training the
person, well, you know peoplewant to be able to answer their
(13:22):
question, and I can see on theb2b side.
But, again, if I think about, Ithink this through, you can
upload um into the library likea whole website.
Okay, with the ai and anythingthat's on the website.
If they've done a good jobthrough their web development
side of things, you can pull anyof that information.
So you have a large website, ahospital system, a retirement
(13:45):
community any of those questionsthat AI is going to be able to
answer that question more than ahuman.
Now, the report component of itis also not there when you're
in chat, unless it's voiceactivated.
Wait, I don't know.
I'm trying to discover this.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Let me say it a different way.
If you think of chat, if youhave a complex subject so a lot
of our clients do let's saythey're doing mass torts, so
it's a law firm that helpspeople if they have some
respiratory illness.
I know Camp Lejeune was a bigone for a while, so there's a
lot of caveats to what makes fora good Camp Lejeune case.
(14:23):
They'll come to there and theywant to find out if I have a
case or not.
When you use a robot to answerthose, you can always get the
right answer, or you have abetter job training that robot
to know the different answers toquestions, because you've seen
all the questions and you haveit, whereas you know you can
give upload thousands of FAQs,whereas we don't have that
(14:44):
ability to answer that manyquestions.
So if you think about it likethat, robots AI will do a better
job there.
If you're talking about thesales component, which is
converting a question into alead, right now humans
significantly outperform AI.
When it gets to the point wherethe pendulum switches shoot,
(15:07):
we'll be the first ones on theAI trine, but right now what we
see is when people are havingconversations.
They want to talk to a personand have an empathetic,
one-on-one conversation Our datasuggests and why we grew at
least 100% for the past fouryears.
What our data suggests is thatby having real people and having
empathetic conversations, we'renot getting the.
(15:27):
Oh, I just want to talk to aperson like a lot of our AI
counterparts get.
So, as of for now, we'renoticing and we're able to
convert a lot more leads from awebsite.
Are we able to have the amountof in-depth conversations and
can we answer 500 FAQs like anAI can?
Absolutely not.
So I still love chat supportwith AI.
I think you can do things thatare incredible with it.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I can see that.
I can see that.
Now the way I'm starting tokind of process it in my head is
that you know, when you look atads on Google and you look at
SEO, okay, only about 20% ofpeople click on ads.
If you do a study and ask evenpeople not a lot of people click
(16:11):
on both, so they either skipthe ads, and that's why Google
tries to hide the way the adslook right, they're always
trying to change it up andpeople just keep skipping the
ads, and that's why Google triesto hide the way the ads look,
Right, they're always trying tochange it up and and people just
keep skipping the ads.
But the ads has produced them,like one of the largest
companies in the world and likeit's it's the majority of all
their revenue and, and so youknow ads are effective.
(16:33):
I believe in getting in front ofpeople and getting your
advertising and your brand outthere, but the more in-depth
stuff is answered through theresearch and the questions and
stuff like that, and so I seethat differential and I see
specific industries, certainthings working better than
others, vice versa.
Like, okay, you need a plumber.
(16:53):
Like immediately right, Likethere's a busted pipe or your
air conditioning is out, it's inthe summer, Like you need a.
You need a plumber, likeimmediately right.
Like there's a busted pipe oryour air condition is out, it's
in the summer, Like you needsomebody right now.
You're not going to do theresearch, right, so that if I
take that kind of like 80, 20, Ican, I can see that um in in
the human side of things, Um,and I would tell you I'm not
going to say which one's the 80and which one's the 20.
Um, cause I don't know, I don'thave enough data like that.
(17:16):
You're you're the, you're theexpert in that.
But but I do see, in certainindustries, specifically when
you're dealing with, when youneed to define what your target
audience is, who you'retargeting is audiences like the
older generation want to talk tosomebody.
The younger generation, youknow, depending on what you're
selling, uh, you don't want totalk to anybody.
(17:36):
Like you want to order pizza.
Yeah, like you don't want totalk to anybody.
Like people, right, like Ireally agree so.
So, like you're ordering food,like you're like I don't want to
talk to anybody, like I justwant.
I just want to get what I'mlooking for.
I want to get to answer myquestion.
You know we used to do likethis profiles, like different
type of people, certain peoplelike the chat, you chat, you
know.
Now, you know again, I do thinkthat the curve is exponential
(17:59):
because I can tell you, from asales standpoint, some of the
trained AIs Right so you're,you're training them, not just
like kind of like what, what thebase feed is like?
And and also capturing the data, like a Tesla car Right, so
you're, you're capturing all thedata of how to answer it, how
to answer it better.
I had a previous guest on andwe've actually implemented this
(18:23):
on all our sales calls how couldwe have done better?
Like, how do we improve that?
And then, eventually, withenough data of how we want to
process, it's going to learnthat and it's going to be able
to do that better and I thinkit's going to be able to do it
pretty quick process.
It's going to learn that andit's going to be able to do that
better, and I think it's goingto be able to do it pretty quick
, and so you know so.
So I think that there'sdefinitely people and I would
(18:45):
fall into this category too oflike I don't want to talk to a
call center overseas,necessarily.
I want someone that understandswhat I'm talking about and what
I'm saying and and what I'mdoing.
Let's dig into the industrieswhere you're seeing the biggest
success and where you've grownthe business the most.
Let's talk about case studiesin those areas, because there's
(19:07):
a lot of people from a lot ofdifferent industries that listen
to this.
They're trying to figure outhow to make their digital
marketing work, and so I agreethat you to capture their
information early.
If you can engage them early,move them further down the sales
process.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
You do it?
Do you build it?
It sounds like I'm kind ofconflicting with you.
It sounds like you build AIbots for your clients.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I have not ever built the AI bot for any clients.
No um no, I'm not.
I I'm not in the AI bot space.
That's something that I thinkis cool technology for sure.
Yeah, no, that's why I'm asking.
I mean, like, certainly, havinga live chat is is a huge
component to answer questions,but if it's to set up just a
(19:52):
call and and they're vettingsomebody on how to do it, I have
used a lot of different toolsand I'm just sharing with you my
experience of, like, if you'reasking qualifying questions,
you're being empathetic.
Like you know, you're answeringa few questions 80% of time.
That works.
I think that what you're doingcan work extremely effective
(20:17):
when you have the right targetaudience.
So that's why I want to diveinto what are those target
audiences?
And, yes, the AI bot can upsetpeople, just like answering
stuff overseas.
Like, if people don't like thator they're not trained good,
like they just bail Right, and Iabsolutely see that in a decent
(20:37):
sized segment.
And so I want to tell you, yes,that I agree with you on that.
And so let's double down onthat and go into those areas
where you've grown the most andseen the biggest success, like,
let's maybe talk about somedifferent specific case studies
that you've done in theretirement community space or
(20:59):
the law firms.
Tell me about home services Iknow it looks like you do.
Digital agencies and localbusinesses Can you talk about
maybe each segment specifically,what you've seen work well,
sure.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So let me tell you about probably about 65% of our
maybe 75% of our clients are lawfirms, so we do consumer side
law firms and the biggestconsumer side law firm in the
digital marketing space iscalled personal injury.
That means you know caraccident lawyers someone that's
been working Yep.
Yep, those types of claims.
So in that market the personalinjury space, the top 3000 PI
(21:35):
spaces in the market 85% of themuse human power chat.
So it's not we don't have 85%of the PI market, I'm sad to say
, but so it's not just us.
There's a lot of companiesdoing what we're doing.
So in those spaces they usehuman power chat.
It costs more money to usepeople than AI and it frankly
does like there's no way aroundit.
That's just a robot versus youknow, versus the AI.
(21:56):
Costs aren't that high.
People costs are higherTraining a team, keep them
updated on the chat scripts, therules for each particular firm.
That gets pretty complex.
But why that industry inparticular has adopted human
powered chat is because theyhave a lot of good marketing
people that measure the results.
So, for example, when we wentlive with a firm I'll say the
(22:17):
name's, firm name out inIllinois, pialetti Law what we
did is they said Ted, I like theidea of chat.
This is a guy named JoePialetti.
Ted, I like the idea of chat,but I don't think it's going to
get me more leads.
I said Joe, what do you mean?
He said Ted, I think you'regoing to steal my phone calls.
So what do you mean by that?
He's like well, if someonecomes to my site and they would
text or chat with you, theyprobably just would have called
(22:39):
you.
I'm like oh, I see what you'resaying.
So you're thinking that we'renot going to get you more leads,
we're just going to take awayyour phone calls?
He said yeah.
I said, all right, well, let'stest that hypothesis.
So what we did for Joe and we doit for literally every client
we work with is we give them a30-day trial.
So we typically just give themit free for 30 days and say how
many leads you get before, howmany leads you get after.
But what we did for Joe is wesplit all his traffic into two
(23:01):
groups.
Group A had chat on, group Bhad chat off.
We also can do call and formtracking so we can really
isolate chat as a variable.
So we did that for and I talkabout this story a lot we did
that test for 30 days and afterthe 30 day free trial the group
with chat on had 159 leads.
The group with chat off had 103.
(23:22):
So we're able to conclusivelyprove that because of chat and
chat alone, we got them aboutwhat's that 55, 60% more total
leads.
Because of chat, I'm fuzzy onthe numbers.
I'm used to, you know, lookingat a slide deck when I talk
about this.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No, no, I that's.
This is the kind of informationthat I'm looking for to to
understand, like data-driven ummarketing.
Um, I love that.
I now I'm looking at your siteright now Um, does it have any
kind of movement?
Does it, does it pop up?
Or people are um raising theirhand and they're choosing to
(23:59):
engage.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Good question and really, how you start chat
varies.
We have a million and a halfconfiguration options.
That's best for that business,but what we found is the two
main ways you do it.
You play a video of thebusiness owner to start the
conversation.
Build empathy.
Get the brand name for thebusiness owner out there.
Owner to start the conversation.
Build empathy.
Get the brand name for thebusiness owner out there and
then, using that, start aconversation short video 10, 20
(24:22):
seconds saying who you are, howyou hype your clients, and then
from there, amy pops up or Sallyor Steve or Jay and we have a
real conversation with them.
There's different pop-outs anddifferent layouts,
configurations.
We do, but we don't like towait for the.
We call it reactive chat If youhave a reactive chat meaning
someone has to click to start,versus something happening.
(24:43):
So we either play a video or wepop up and say, hey, how can I
help you?
Today, by having that proactivetalk, you're able to have a
much higher chat start rate and,like anything, the more swings
at the bat you get, the morehome runs you have.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, anything, the more swings at the bat you get,
the more home runs you have.
Yeah, I mean, I, I can see, uh,like in the affiliate marketing
space, um, you know, as, as wemoved into that with like
different kinds of products andstuff like that, uh, we, we have
a supplement company, um, andand essentially, uh, what I can
tell you is most people juststart bidding on your own name,
right, and the conversion rate.
And also a lot of agencies, thebigger agencies, that kind of
obscure.
What's going on?
Uh, and they're running youknow one account managers
(25:25):
running 80, you know a hundredsomething accounts.
Like I mean, they're trying tohit certain metrics and they're
making it look like a certainway in my and this has been my
opinion, this is just mypersonal experience that I'm um
speaking and this has been myopinion, this is just my
personal experience that I'mspeaking to when clients come to
us and when we, you know, tryto get access to the data, you
know certain things look reallygood, and so I can see how a law
(25:49):
firm would say, hey, you'rejust swapping.
You know, rob and Peter to payPaul here.
It's just a different format.
I also, I would agree with you,because different people like to
engage different ways.
Like I talked about that kindof disc profile.
You know, some people want totalk to somebody on the phone,
some people want to the oldschool call the 1-800 numbers,
right, like that's kind of like.
(26:09):
Some people want to watch avideo, some people want to chat.
Like I can tell you I don'ttext anymore.
Like I video chat or I, youknow, do a like a recorded video
where I'm talking.
Like I don't like typinganymore, like I've just decided
I don't like to do it.
Like will I do it, sure, ifthat's the only option.
But, like you're, you're tryingto reduce friction and I agree
(26:30):
with you that, no matter whatyou're doing, you're trying to
hit somebody in the right senseand you're to reduce that
friction as as quickly as youcan.
Um, okay, so um, I I agree withyou on on law firms.
Why do you think?
Um that?
Why do you think that thathappened that way?
Right, why do you?
(26:50):
What?
Like what you've?
You have enough of thesebusinesses.
You've scaled it.
You data, why?
Why is that chatbot workingbetter than um?
Like I mean, a lot of peoplerun the chatbots to.
Uh, if they're a smallerbusiness, cause you.
You deal with local businesses.
They'll just run it tothemselves or someone marketing
on their team.
(27:11):
Um, like, what's thedifferential if someone is going
hey, okay, uh, I'm going toweigh the AI chatbots, what's
the comparison?
Speaker 3 (27:25):
versus in-house Sure.
So what's the differencebetween an AI chatbot versus
doing it in-house?
Speaker 1 (27:30):
No, no, no.
So we don't need to go down therabbit hole of a live person
versus the chatbot.
Now I'm talking about, you know, if we're talking about law
firms or we're talking aboutbigger companies, they might
have somebody dedicated that'sanswering the phone.
Why don't they have that personanswering the chatbot as well?
Or like what are the scenarioswhere that would work?
(27:54):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So the analysis I said about the law firms, that's
true for any big home servicebusiness as well.
I'm not talking about the pestcontrol where you get a contract
it's maybe 300 bucks a year butthe roofing job, the plastic
surgeon, the cosmeticdermatology, the retirement home
, when a sale or lead is worthnorth of a thousand dollars, the
(28:15):
economics of human power chatpay off.
And so why shouldn't they do itin-house?
Well, if they can do itin-house, they should.
In my space there are a fewbusinesses that do it in-house
Morgan Morgan.
They have their own human powerchat team.
The reason why most firms, eventhe ones that have 200 lawyers
(28:36):
as opposed to 300.
If you have 200 lawyers and youhave 24-7 coverage so you can
answer every chat in 12 secondsor less, then you should do it
in house.
The hard thing about chat is ifa chat comes in and my team
waits 20 seconds to answer it,I've lost 40% of the chats.
You have to answer chats in 12seconds or less or you lose the
(28:56):
chatter.
So when that firm with 12lawyers and four and five intake
specialists say hey, we'regoing to do this ourselves.
Sarah, michael and Jim aregoing to answer chats 24 for us
during the day.
You tried at night.
We say, okay, give it your bestshot.
If you don't like the resultsyou're seeing, try us.
So what happens is Mike takes asmoke break, sarah goes on
(29:18):
lunch, julie's on on holidaywe're busy doing other stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
They're busy running the business.
They're doing other things.
Someone needs to be dedicatedto to doing this exactly and
it's just that 12 seconds therule.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
When I tell people the 20 second rule, no one
believes me.
And then they start answeringtheir chats like they're like oh
I can't believe I this chat.
The amount of lost chats youget when you try to do it in
house is astronomical.
What we do is we literallygrade and score every chat by
how fast their team answers it.
So our agents are hired, fired,promoted, demoted and bonused
based on how well and how fastthey answer chats.
And it has to be fast or we getfired.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
I like that.
So basically, there's on oneend, doing it yourself on the
other, and there's AI.
You're operating in that thatmiddle, certainly right now.
Um, uh, increasing the, theresponse rates, right, uh,
increases sales Absolutely.
Um, be able to understand thenuances where AI is going to get
, uh, tripped up, um, you know,in-house.
They may be able to understandthe nuances where AI is going to
get tripped up.
In-house, they may be able toanswer it better.
(30:21):
Or your team might not have allthe information, but if they're
not getting that person on thehook and not dedicated to that
conversation, they're not goingto answer it very well.
So I'm starting to think thatAI, support-powered human is
probably the best route to go.
Again, when you're talkingabout high powered or leads that
(30:45):
are worth a lot, right, um?
Speaker 3 (30:49):
yeah, if you can, if you can find a lot of the people
in my space are trying to dothe ai and then having a human
takeover and that's what we'reseeing a lot of a competition
doing.
We don't touch AI yet on thatfront yet because we're
dedicated to our bots, not bots,and we know there are legal
implications when you startgetting personal information via
(31:09):
AI that a lot of our clientsdon't want to deal with.
So if you're getting personalhealth information from a chat
bot, you're opening the door tolegal implications.
So you got to be careful and alot of the verticals we're in.
So you know law law, electivemedicine, retirement homes.
That's sensitive information.
Do we want to give that data tochat GPT?
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, I mean, a lot of these companies are are
basically carving it off.
So where they can use the,where they can use the code, but
they're using it in-house and Ithink that that's a
consideration.
Can you speak any more to the,your money, your life, kind of
areas where that information issensitive and people need to be
(31:50):
critically thinking or doublethinking about how they approach
that?
Right?
Sure, say that again.
So what are these legalimplications Like?
If someone's out there liketrying to consider these things
like you know they theydefinitely don't need to be just
a lot of these companies.
I think it depends what they'redoing.
(32:11):
You got to look at their termsof service, but where that
information is being fed to,because there are a lot of these
chatbots that are just bolt-onsor AI agents of ChatGPT and
that information flows up.
So how comfortable are you withtalking about some of the
specifics of the legal Well, I'mnot a lawyer, I'm not gonna.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
I have a law degree and I don't wanna give legal
advice.
I know, if I pretend to givelegal advice, that opens up the
window, but I'll say this thereare law firms that are getting
sued from using AI wrongfully.
What it is basically right noware there are people that find
out.
So, for example, one of thebiggest firms in the world used
an AI to write a brief and theydidn't check it.
(32:54):
The AI used a lot of fakecasers that didn't exist because
they call phantom answers.
They gave a bunch of phantomanswers.
The person submitted that.
The person that was for thatfirm found out it was a small
lawsuit, but they turned aroundand sued that law firm for using
their information illegally andnow they're on the hook for a
big settlement.
So there are ramifications forusing AI.
(33:17):
I don't know much about it.
I just know there are cases outthere.
I know it's something mycompetitors have to deal with
but honestly, in the human inthe chat space for sales, I
haven't.
I don't bump into it that muchbecause the businesses that I
deal with are the high that,like a sale is worth a lot, case
is worth a lot, move in.
So they know that AI isn'tthere yet for their space.
(33:38):
When it starts to be, it'sgoing to become more.
It's usually the smaller ticketitems and the smaller websites
that are looking for the nextshiny thing are the ones that
are playing with it.
In the chat side there's plentyof good use cases for AI, but I
haven't seen a competitor comeout and say, ted, we can get as
many leads as you.
I haven't seen anything closeyet any competitor come out and
say Ted we can get as many leadsas you like.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I haven't seen anything close yet.
Yeah, no, I think, uh, I thinkthat there's some delicate areas
, for sure, and there's uh pause, uh, people need to take pause
to, to consider all thoseramifications of of how that's
built out.
I mean, is there anything elsethat you're kind of seeing in
the future of live chat andtrends, uh, that are coming up
that you could speak to, or doyou just kind of have a feeling
(34:20):
that that's going to starthappening?
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Sure, well, I mean, it's already happening.
It's just as it gets better.
It'll become more and more sowhat would probably happen will
be a hybrid approach kind of theapproach I talked about earlier
, where it starts with AI, thenmoves to human and then
eventually just kick human outof there, eventually fully.
But we're on the cutting edge.
We're paying attention to allthe competitors because we want
to see the minute someone can doit, to the point where we get a
(34:42):
little bit scared.
Then we start adopting thosepractices ourselves.
We haven't seen it.
What we have seen is wheneveryone's talking about AI more
, that means people areneglecting SMS.
So the better you can serveyour clients through talking to
them with the channel that theyuse their phone for the most
that's SMS the bigger advantageyou'll have.
So not only just answering thewebsite chats, but being able to
(35:02):
communicate with client viatext, being able to answer them
in the preferred method thattheir prospect reached out to
them.
So we're just seeing it everyyear, the percent of our leads
for our clients that come infrom text the text you know the
phone is increasing.
So the better we can, thebetter businesses like us can
serve that vertical or thatcommunication method, the better
(35:25):
we'll all do.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, no, I, I a hundred percent agree that.
You know you need to connectwith people immediately.
You know talking, connectingthrough the phone and SMS is
there you mentioned earlier.
There's there, you know.
So somebody now has listened tothis podcast and they're like,
okay, I need a solution for thisright.
(35:49):
How should someone look for aservice provider?
And then, what are some commonmistakes when they're trying to
set the business that they mightneed to keep an eye out for?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
If you're look for ones that we're not the only
ones that give a 30-day freetrial.
You know, try it before you buyit.
I get, you know, I get thesecalls from these, I get these
emails from these companies thatdo like a voice call, an
outbound call service.
You go on their website.
You can't even hear the callsand you're hearing me like, well
, that's not there yet.
It's kind of garbage.
Try everyone, before you buy it, make sure their goals are
(36:23):
aligned with yours from apricing structure perspective.
A flat rate price withoutknowing what you're going to get
doesn't make sense.
I would try to talk there's alot of companies that do per
lead models and per qualifiedlead models.
Talk to the vendor or theprovider to make sure it's a
model that fits for yourbusiness, that corresponds with
your goals.
If you're trying to getappointments, make sure you pay
(36:45):
for per appointment, not just aflat rate model.
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All right.
So what would you say?
This is a newer space to a lotof people.
This is something that peopleknow that they need to be doing.
They're starting to take thataction.
I mean, what in everything thatyou've learned because you're
in it and out of it every day?
What's one unknown secret ofinternet marketing?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Talk to clients in the channel in which they want
to talk to you.
Don't force them into yourpreferred communication method
just because it's easier for you.
If clients want to text you,you text them back.
If a client wants to call you,you call them back.
If a client wants to email you,you email them back.
Clients want to fill out a form.
Get back to them, however theysaid they want to be contacted.
Don't force prospects intocommunicating in a way that
(37:34):
they're not comfortable with.
Meet them where they are andthen, once you have their
business, then you can startyour SOP, your standing operator
procedure, but not beforeyou've won their trust.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I love that.
So, ted, if somebody wants tofind out more about human
engaged, human powered chats andget a free trial because I
think that's awesome how do theyget in touch with you?
What's your preferred method ofthem reaching out to you?
Get on your website and chat.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
yet that's exactly right.
Go to jubileadscom, go to thewebsite, start a conversation
and uh see if you like what yousee.
And uh, the main reasonbusinesses use us because they
want at least 50% more leads.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
We give you the 50% more lead guarantee.
If we work with you and youdon't get 50% more leads, you
walk away and you've spent $0.
Hey, everyone, you can't beatthat.
So I would encourage you to gocheck it out.
Go check out what Ted's doing.
If you're looking to build somestrategy with your overall
marketing funnel, if you'rewilling to grow your business
with the largest, most powerfultool on the planet, the internet
, reach out to EWR Digital formore revenue in your business.
We work with all kinds ofvendors, and vendors like Ted
(38:47):
all the time.
Until the next time, my name isMatt Bertram.
Bye-bye for now, thank you.
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