December 15, 2024 • 43 mins
AI is transforming influencer marketing and content creation, with platforms like Corbett Drummey’s LTX Studio leading the way. Generative AI surpasses traditional stock content, offering unique images and videos while addressing challenges like copyright and job displacement. Embracing tools like ChatGPT is essential for navigating the evolving marketing landscape, as AI enables brands to enhance safety protocols, vet creators, and elevate their strategies. User-friendly tools empower non-technical marketers, blending creativity and efficiency while underscoring the need for precision in automated content creation.
Influencers remain pivotal in the digital age, maintaining authenticity and trust in an AI-driven world. By integrating AI with strategies like SEO and email campaigns, marketers can extend influencers' reach without compromising their personal touch. Corbett Drummey highlights the power of collaboration, combining skilled editors with AI-enhanced tools to harmonize human creativity and technological advancements. Together, these elements reaffirm the indispensable role of influencers while showcasing AI as a complementary force in the marketing realm.
Guest Contact Information:
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/corbettdrummey/
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The Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing podcast is a podcast hosted by Internet marketing expert Matthew Bertram. The show provides insights and advice on digital marketing, SEO, and online business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
My name is Matt Bertram.
Today I have a special guestfor you, but before we get into
it, I just wanted to giveeverybody a quick update.
I know I hadn't done a podcastfor a minute.
I was at the Brighton SEOConference.
There was a lot of things goingon with all things related to
(00:38):
AI, with digital PR, with linkbuilding, and so went on and
found a great guest for you thatwe're going to be talking about
AI, influencer marketing andthat ecosystem and what's going
to impact it.
I know everybody's worriedabout AI.
Got a lot of really cool stuff.
I'm going to do a training in acouple of weeks as we move into
(01:02):
the new year.
Please go check outMatthewBertramcom if you're
interested in kind of coaching,EWR Digital if you're looking
for your business needsmarketing.
What I'm seeing in someenterprise level data is there's
not a lot of crossover betweenour agency and the podcast.
So I think a lot of podcastlisteners are not aware that
we've been running an agency for25 years and have clients,
(01:27):
small and large, and are good ateverything from search
marketing, web design etc.
So please go check that out,but let's just jump right into
it.
I got Corbett Drumming with metoday.
He's been involved in thisspace for a long time.
He's also part of WhiteCombinator.
Corbett, you were introduced tome from my network, somebody
(01:52):
that I should definitely connectwith.
I want you to introduceyourself I think you could do it
better than me to the audienceand then we can jump into it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Absolutely Well.
Great to meet you, matt.
I'm excited to talk throughthese things today.
And yeah, to start with a bitof background, I'm a startup
founder.
I had co -founded a companycalled Popular Pays, an
influencer and creator marketingplatform, about a decade ago,
and then two years ago we wereacquired by Lightrix, who a lot
of people know because of thepopular photo and video editing
(02:24):
apps they've made, such asFacetune, photoleap and
VideoLeap.
We were their first kind of B2Bproduct acquisition and then
since then in the last year,I've been focused on the AI
video platform called LTX Studio, so we've been building a
platform there, as well as anunderlying foundational video
model that powers it.
(02:45):
So there's a lot we can touchon, kind of where ai intersects
with content creation andinfluencer marketing.
But, yeah, happy to followwherever it might go, whatever
it might be interesting for youraudience yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
So to kind of tee it up, right.
Um, generative images right.
So if we start with generativeimages, which that's turned into
like generative video, right,right.
So if we start with generativeimages, which that's turned into
like generative video, right.
Listening to some of the Googlepeople out there talking about
AI stuff is, I mean, now there'scopyright issues and you know
(03:18):
that's going to be addressed ata bigger level from training the
AIs and that sort of thing.
But the images that are createdand the videos that are created
are unique, right.
So if we focus on SEO for aminute and understand how the
search engines are looking ateverything, they're looking at
this stuff as completely unique.
So, over even stock or stockvideo or something like that, AI
(03:41):
gets a win.
Right, it gets a win.
Also, the tools like MidJourneyand all the other things that
are going on are getting much,much better, right, and so
you've got completely uniquecontent.
You can start to kind of buildout themes.
There's ways to maximizeproductivity from a graphic
(04:02):
design standpoint to help brandsbuild.
You know, you're able to take,you know, blogs and turn them
into videos, like you know,Google released their kind of
podcast thing like there'sthere's so much going on and you
know, every podcast that I'velistened to or person I've
interacted with, they're allworried about AI, right, and you
(04:25):
know, I think that some peopleshould be right and one of the
stories that I actually sharedis I had a content manager
probably about the time ChatGVGcame around and she was like no
AI, right, no AI.
And there's a lot of companiesout that are are using um tools
(04:46):
and and they're like you know,enterprise level tools and
they're like if it's 99 humanwriting one percent ai, it's
like no, go back and then you'rehaving to play with the content
of like this was human written,but, um, you know, there there
are certain ways that arewriting happens.
That is going to show up as, asai is like kind of false
(05:06):
positives to to a certain degree, and I just don't think people
can get away from it.
And so, you know, theconversation started to become
okay, you're not going to bereplaced by AI immediately.
You're going to be replaced bypeople using AI, right, and that
was kind of the kind ofintersection of like hey, we're
going this direction and we'regoing to lean into it and we're
(05:29):
going to be cutting edge withwhat's going on and we're going
to certainly follow the Googleguidelines.
We're going to do all thesethings, but we need to embrace
this because the world'schanging, just kind of like
money's changing with crypto,whatever, like the world is
moving forward and you need tomove forward with it, because
you're going to be replaced bypeople that are leveraging.
Well, now there's this likeabsolute noise proliferation
(05:52):
bots.
I mean, what's real, what's not?
Like we're getting into a realmurky world and I think it's
caused anxiety for a lot ofpeople out there, think it's
caused anxiety for a lot ofpeople out there.
So I would love to just kind ofhear your perspective of the AI
kind of evolution within theinfluencer marketing ecosystem,
(06:13):
to kind of bring those together,and then that could spawn a
couple other questions andconversations.
But we got AI over here, we gotinfluence over here.
I mean these two things arecolliding.
What does that look like?
What are the things you'reseeing?
What are the things that you'reconcerned about?
Just to kind of set the tablefor everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Absolutely.
I mean, you touched on a lot ofgood points in terms of like.
One big topic is brand safetyand rights and usage for AI in
the industry.
Another is this collidingindustry, especially because one
thing I think is worth talkingabout is that, um, really what's
unique about marketing andcontent creation is ai has
impacted our space first andhardest, compared to almost
(06:54):
anything out there.
Yes, ai will change everything,ranging from finance,
healthcare, etc.
But the very first applicationswere in content creation.
So, um, we've had to deal withthat as an industry earlier and
like, harder than everyone elsehas, and so we've seen that this
can mean a few things.
Number one AI is changing howcontent is being created in the
(07:16):
first place.
So how, like the tools thatcreators use and marketers use.
That's one big pillar.
Another is, you know, thiselement of displacement, and
people are worried if it will.
You know, take what, take theirlivelihood, and that might be a
creator displaced, might be amarketer.
I do agree with you that ingeneral, I think you should be
worried more about people usingAI than just AI by itself, but I
(07:41):
, and then the a third part ofthat is rights usage and worries
around that whether that'screators worried about worrying
about their art and likelihood,livelihood or about, like brands
, wondering what is brand safeto use.
There's some huge pillars hereand interestingly we've had a
perspective across all of thembecause we make tools for
creators and marketers.
(08:01):
We've built foundational models.
We know we've been operatingindustry so we've kind of had a
front row seat to all thosedifferent pillars of topics so.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So one of the things that I thought was interesting
is like, um, I forgot thearticle I was reading.
I I'm not sure if it was chad,gbt or what, but it was clear
that something was trained onthe new york times as far as,
like, the response was right.
And also at Brighton there wasa lot of talk about.
Okay, I mean, there was a lotof different segments on the
(08:30):
tracks, on on AI, but it wasreally like what was the
language model trained on?
and it was really talking aboutkind of taking your own data,
creating those kind of subsetsand the human kind of quality of
creativity.
Now, I think images I've seenthe stuff that AI has done and
it blows me away Creativitystandpoint.
(08:52):
Now, on the content side ofthings, I mean, you've got to
still figure out well, what,what are people interested in,
what are people talking about?
Now, a lot of that's going tostart to get automated and
turned out and it's really likehow big is the inventory online
as far as like what, what you'retalking about?
But but I think that that's whyGoogle even added the to the
(09:14):
eat, the experience component,right.
So it's like yo, you talkingabout what you did and what your
experiences with, andinterjecting that human
component, uh, in that, I thinkis is really quite, quite
critical.
But I mean, what are, what areyou seeing?
If you're like you know peopleare using content.
I mean, certainly people weretalking about using it to create
(09:37):
topics, but now ais are aredoing the full boat, right, like
they're doing the heavy lifting, and then even you got stuff.
I I think it's interesting,like if I was in school today,
like how do you grade tests, howdo you figure out like
information, like it think it'sinteresting, like if I was in
school today.
Like how do you grade tests,how do you figure out?
like information, like it's it'spretty crazy in my eyes like
you know what world we live inand what's going to be available
(10:01):
.
I would even tell you me thecredit.
Or I had a big thing withcalculators, right.
Everybody, like put their stuffin the calculator, you put a
bunch of codes on the on theback end and all that.
But I was like I am going touse a calculator forever in the
future, forever, Like I willnever not have a calculator when
I'm doing math, so why do you?
I have to learn it now.
Like, okay, teach me how to doit, but if you're going to give
(10:23):
me a test, let's have a realworld application, right?
So I think that there's a lotof issues that I'm kind of
tapping into, but I think thething that people, what I want
to hear from you is okay, AI ishappening.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You know, AI is impacting stuff, like where does
the human fit into it?
Like how do you see that?
That's an excellent question,and you know.
By the way, one other thingworth noting is we recently
surveyed a thousand marketers toask them questions about their
usage, so we do have some gooddata on this, most like.
One interesting note, by theway, is that executives are
using it more often than entrylevel people, and I think it's
(11:03):
because the executives arerealizing that it will change
everything and they're trying toget ahead of it.
The executives are realizingthat it will change everything
and they're trying to get aheadof it, whereas sometimes it can
be rough around the edges andentry level folks are saying
that's not there yet, or youknow.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
But when you ask about like where do humans fit
in?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
the picture.
I think it has to do withleverage.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
OK, I think.
Well, I mean, I think that ifyou're, if you're an entry level
and also like, if you look atthe question of the data sets,
right, so if you look at thequestion of the data sets, right
, so, if you look at the datasets, a lot of people are just
playing around with it, right,they're not using it for
business.
If you look at, like, the totalset of searches, like it's four
percent, google was a littleconcerned about the growth rate,
but if you like, dig into thedata, you're just playing around
with it.
(11:42):
People are still using it.
Like you said, I think theexecutives, you know, are trying
to create impact of, okay, likea big proposal or, or this, or
I'm trying to communicate this,or I'm trying to translate that
they have things that that cancreate more value and more
impact, and so they can see AIas creating more leverage,
potentially based on theirvisibility of of what they can
(12:05):
impact individually and maybeentry-level people in their
specific job.
You know, depending on what thatis, might not be as impactful,
but I I do think, like knowledge, workers across the board are
certainly impacted andexecutives could could fall into
that category.
So, if you have any kind ofinformation, like you thought it
(12:25):
was going to impact, like thelower end people first, but it's
actually impacting, like thelawyers, it's impacting
healthcare, I mean, like all thethings that you learn that AI
can do.
Depending on what capacity, youcan create a lot of leverage to
do things that might might takesomeone very skilled that in
(12:47):
pattern, pattern recognition orsomething like that that other
people couldn't.
Maybe I don't know.
I know I kind of cut you off.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, no, it's all good and that's a good interest.
The thing is, we have the dataand the reasons underpinning it.
There's only hypotheticals, andthat's a good one.
One might be that the leverageis a good one.
One could be that, like as Isaid, we think that maybe
executives realize howfundamental of a shift is coming
and they're trying to get aheadof it.
(13:14):
But, as you mentioned, likewith almost every tech trend,
it's usually driven by theentry-level teammates first
adopting things and then therest of the organization, and
this is dramatically different.
However, it is definitely beingadopted as fast as like
anything we've ever seen.
90% of marketers are using itweekly.
(13:36):
A big percentage say it's likecrucial to the job already.
But when you ask about where dohumans fall in the loop, I
really think that I agree withyou around how the folks you
should be worried about arethose that are adopting and
leveraging AI versus AIoperating by itself.
Over time, we'll see more andmore of that.
Hopefully, it's things that theAI takes off our plate that are
more annoying, so we can focuson the bigger and more important
(13:57):
things, but we've alreadystarted to see a few examples of
where AI is taking the lead.
One standout example is inbrand safety.
There are some agencies wherewe've seen vet creators manually
and it takes like four to sixhours per creator, and now AI
can.
Like you know, we built sometools and played around here and
the tool we built, for example,can do it in like minutes and
(14:19):
look back for years, and that'sone where now, conclusively, I
think you can say, like AI isjust flat out better at brand
safety and flagging things.
However, you still want thehuman in the mix.
So I think what we'll see ispeople, whether it's an engineer
working with these codeassisting tools, co-pilot tools,
an agency person reviewingdrafts of things or reviewing
(14:41):
flags that AI has flagged fortargeting and or safety purposes
.
I think we're just going tohave our work scaled.
But then one other thing humanskind of being scaled by AI is
one theme still, I think we'rejust going to have our work
scaled and but then one otherthing like humans kind of being
scaled by AI is one theme.
And then one other theme ishumans becoming more technical.
For example, I'm not technicalbut I can use these tools to
rapidly draft content that Inever could have with like Adobe
before, but now I can get likesomething from my mind's eye
(15:03):
onto paper.
With tools like you know, midjourney or our LTX studio for
video stuff like that, you canget from concept to content and
it makes marketers technical now, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
So I think the interface has been a big part of
it right, like, even like theevolution of mid journey.
You know things like that.
I think that it was designed bycoders for kind of coders,
right, and now they're bringingmore people into.
I mean, you even look at, like,um, all the different ad
platforms, right, like how theywere structured, how they're set
up, like there's a little bitof pain around that, but they're
(15:37):
, they're, they're improvingthat, that process, and I think,
even prompting, like setting up, like prompts for people to to
achieve what they're wanting toachieve.
I think it unlocks a lot ofcreative potential for people
that aren't technical to dothings right, and I'm seeing
this with a lot of differentplatforms across the board, even
(15:57):
building websites, right, likeyou know, you got drag and drop
builders versus having codestuff.
I mean you just look at, likewhat WordPress or some of these
different platforms like Wix arereally doing, um, and then like
again that that patternrecognition or or AI detection,
um, you, you put in, you put inthose uh variables, like for
(16:18):
backlinks, for example, like youcan, you can, like you can
assess data.
I think, again, thoseapplications, even outside of uh
, uh, uh, marketing,specifically like, okay,
identifying this cancer oridentifying like these illnesses
, you run it through patternrecognition and you can like
pull a data set and then it cankind of spit out an answer, most
(16:40):
likely.
And so these applications canbe applied broadly and I like
that as far as, like you know,brand detection and you can set
up kind of different triggers tohave like automated things
happen.
Right.
And I think that the automationis what I'm scared about of
really.
You know, people are setting uplike content machines or you
(17:02):
know, like the AI bots that are.
Just you feed it a prompt andit just goes, goes, goes and
it's going 24, seven, yeah.
And then they're proliferating.
What is it?
The dead internet theory?
What?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
is your point on this Interesting thing?
One last note on the makingmarketers technical, before
going on to the proliferation ofbad content, sometimes because
that's fascinating too, but forfolks listening sometimes you'd
say this like oh, you can now betechnical even if you're a
marketer who wouldn't considerthemselves technical.
(17:32):
I would try two things.
One thing I use it for all thetime is spreadsheet manipulation
.
So, for example, like hey,upload a file to ChatGPT and use
this to combine first and lastname fields and make a new
column.
Or longer things like add a newcolumn and research all these
companies and add the industrythey're in.
Or like basic spreadsheetmanipulation.
That some of them you can do ifyou know Excel shortcuts really
(17:55):
well.
But if you don't, like youdon't even really have to learn
them now you can just promptChatGPT and then basic data
analysis you can do there too.
So that's one quick examplethat I use like every week,
because now, instead of manuallylooking up things, I'll have it
look them up for me and appenda new column.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Are you concerned about you know?
So chat, chat for everybodythat's listening.
Like, pay the extra 20 bucks,like?
I mean it's like one of the mostpowerful tools out there and,
yes, you can get it for free.
But if you're talking aboutuploading documents and stuff
like that, you've got to pay forit.
But if you're giving a bunch ofdata like this has always been
(18:33):
my opinion and I would love tohear your opinion you know, like
OK, if you're running ads andyou upload a bunch of stuff to
Facebook to like, hash, match,to say, hey, target these people
or build this lookalike list,right, yeah, people are like, oh
, this is our data, right, andthey're like this is our data, I
don't want to share it.
I'm like Google has everybody'sdata.
(18:54):
Facebook has got everybody'sdata.
We're just organizing that data.
There's nothing like there's onehalf of 1% that you might add
to the overall mix.
In my opinion, it's justorganization.
But if people are doing stuffand there's a lot of companies
that are limiting the use ofchat, tbt, especially from, okay
(19:15):
, this is, you know, maybe it'strader codes or you know
whatever, but what is your?
How do you do that?
If you're concerned about thedata set and just giving it out
to the public domain, that's agreat question.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'll answer it in two ways.
Like number one, you know, asan enterprise an enterprise, I
should say we use a businesstier for Lightrix, our parent
company.
We have 500 plus people.
We do use a business tierbecause then they guarantee
they're not using that data intraining.
However, I would say, if you'rea startup, do not worry about
it.
And, to be honest, I think thefears are overblown, even from a
(19:48):
traditional perspective.
Even from a traditionalperspective, you never know,
like, for I think that thereason there's the compliance
issues, the reason that theselike larger companies are
worried about it is that they'retrying to do their best to
comply with all these thingslike GDPR et cetera, and so they
need that contractual guaranteethat you're gonna handle my
data properly.
But from a practical point ofview, like, if you're a startup
(20:08):
and you're being like I justwould not, your biggest risk is
not growing and, um, usually youdon't have to worry about the
compliance things as much in thebeginning when you're just
getting started.
And I do think the fears areoverblown about, um, are they
going to use them in some otherway?
It's just really you're signingthe business contracts because
you are trying to get thecontractual guarantee, but
realistically I think you'd befine.
(20:29):
Um, the other part of that is,um, you know, uh, like we, yeah,
we use the um a business a tierto have like access to these
other features and things.
Um, but you know, if you areconcerned about it, even as a
person like, let's just sayyou're uploading something that
you personally are worried about, you can just do a temporary
chat which they say explicitlythey won't use, like that data
(20:49):
is deleted.
So there are, there are optionseven for, like your everyday
user, but 100%, probably thebest money you'll spend as a
business user is like the $20 amonth to access these higher
power models.
It's like a differentexperience.
I haven't yet tried the new $200a month pro version but, to be
honest, like you don't need thepro version unless you're
actually pushing the boundariesof, like scientific literature.
(21:12):
I've I've used it for oneparticular thing.
I was trying to like stump itwith like it's if you're asking
questions about, like a sciencepaper or medical paper or
something like your day to dayusage, you probably are fine
with 4.0, just uploadingdocuments and things.
Maybe a one if you need somelike extra juice.
But, yeah, definitely try thepro as a marketer, it'll make
you technical.
(21:33):
And I want to give one moreexample.
With the provert like 20 amonth, for example, you might
think you're not technical, butreally to dispel that in like
five, no, dispel that in 60seconds, um, go into the version
, go to the new canvas, whichwas released yesterday, I think,
and just say like I want tocreate a working game of Pong,
and you can create it with oneprompt.
(21:54):
Double click it.
Say like save it as an HTMLfile.
Double click it, it opens yourbrowser and it will work right
out of the gate.
And then you can just say likein the cursor, say like well,
can you make the background blueand can you give me a button to
increase the sensitivity of thearrow keys?
You will be able to code withEnglish.
And so now I think it'simportant for marketers to
realize that these tools makeyou good enough and can help you
(22:14):
cross that chasm.
So where you are, you can betechnical.
And that will be a hard thingfor people to shake if they've
been in this space for a while,but people just entering it will
kind of grasp it intuitively.
But yeah, I'd say you should beworried about the marketer,
that's 10X-ing their owncapabilities by leaning on these
tools.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I would say that I think the pendulum swings back
to creativity right, like if youdon't have the foundational
knowledge right initially, youdon't even know what to ask
right.
Or how to kind of structure it,because it's a support tool in
that.
I mean, what are you seeing?
How is AI impacting theplatforms, the creators, the
brands, the audiences?
(22:53):
How would you-.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Man.
So I'd say there's definitelysome underlying anxiety, for
example, both on the creators aswell as people making the tools
, like us, because there'salways a new model, we're always
having to upgrade and stay ontop of it and it's moving faster
than ever.
And for creators, they'rehaving to learn new tools all
the time.
I think there's some anxietythat they might be replaced and
or taken advantage of because of, for example, the training data
(23:16):
and the training sets.
They're worried, you know, am Ias an artist or creator, is
this, you know, unfairly usingthat data?
And there's a lot of thingspending, like you said, like the
kind of a landmark.
The New York Times lawsuit is alandmark example of that.
So there is some anxiety aboutits IP issues in the creative
field.
But I think you also mentionedthis beginning.
(23:37):
It's just inevitable andinescapable that it is impacting
things and when you think backto artists of the day, they were
using the most up-to-date andlatest technology to make their
works.
The thing that we considered,like you know, kind of classical
art back then was reallypushing boundaries and the
things that we think, whetherit's music and old production
(23:59):
techniques, like they were, theywere pushing these, like tapes
and things to the limit and Ithink the like modern artists
using that and embracing it,we'll be able to build a lot
more interesting and amazingthings with it.
So it'll push the boundaries aswell.
So there's this element of likedemocratizing and making
everyone technical, whether acreator, engineer, whatever.
(24:21):
There's that element of anxietyabout, like, people wondering
about where their place is andpeople always having to adopt
the next thing or, for us, buildthe next thing.
But I do think it, I am anoptimist and I do think it opens
up possibilities more thananything else and we will have a
golden age of content creation.
I think you're right in thatthere is going to be this
proliferation of a thousandtimes more stuff.
That's bad, but with AI, youcan also surface the gems better
than ever before.
(24:41):
So there's a stat that's like,every two years, there's more
content created that year thanentire history of humankind
before that, and that willaccelerate.
I think it's inevitable andit'll hold true.
It'll continue to hold in true,but I think that, yes, there'll
be a lot of bland stuff createdwith AI, but we have the
technology to also surface thebest things for people to see.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I think that's a great, great point and that's
what I'm definitely seeing.
Right.
So a lot of content's beingcreated and Google stopped
indexing.
A'm definitely seeing right so,a lot of content's being
created and Google stoppedindexing.
A lot of content, right.
If it's low quality content,it's like we can't even keep
this in our directories of oursearch engines because it's just
not valuable, right?
So one, it goes away.
(25:25):
Right, if there's too muchinventory and then out of the
inventory there is, a lot ofpeople can answer the question.
They're trying to just keep youon Google's and say, hey,
here's the AI summary.
Like zero click, here you go,here's the answer.
So if you're going to beproducing content, it needs to
be like a couple of tiers abovethat.
(25:45):
And how many people do youreally have that are competing
on that level?
I've seen with like very bigcompanies versus startups.
One of the biggest things thatI remember when I was like
really heavily in that world was, okay, microsoft, where my mom
was like one of the firstemployees at Microsoft and you
know she would always tell me,yeah, we got like two people at
(26:06):
the whole company working onthis like one thing, right, you
know, or whatever.
And so you like, look at thiswhole company, you're like I
can't beat this whole company,but, depending on like whatever
the problem is you're trying tosolve, you know, like it was
like like just the analogy, Iwas like one person's really
working hard, so you'recompeting with that person.
One person's looking for theirnext job right, and they're like
whatever.
And then one person's likescrewing off, like, and so it's
(26:27):
like so, so, so you're, you'renot.
You're not at that big of adisadvantage.
Where you have the advantage isyou're more able to move quick,
right, like you don't haveapprovals, you don't have all
the red tape, like, you canpivot, you can figure stuff out.
So you're more agile, and Ithink that you know if you're
(26:48):
trying to be very narrow and youknow what you're solving for,
um, you know ai, whatever youhave, you have that leverage in,
like a reddit post.
Or you know um social media,like these algorithms, like okay
, you're producing stuff fortiktok, youtube, instagram,
whatever it's going to go viral,right, like one post could go
viral.
(27:09):
The game has changed, right?
I would love to hear your takeon like kind of lessons learned
as well as how is influencerright, like, how is it so they
get AI influencers.
You got like fake AI bots thatare posting stuff, generating
money, like you hear about a lotof that in the news.
(27:29):
But if you're an influencer,how do you leverage AI?
And also, like, where isinfluencer marketing fitting
into the broader scope of thedigital landscape, the marketing
mix, like when you're lookingat so kind of go big picture and
kind of narrow it down to AIand influencers.
I'd love to kind of see whatyou've learned there and that
kind of thing.
(27:50):
To start, there's two things.
I'd love to kind of see whatyou've learned there and that
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
To start, there's two things.
It ties into the question ofthis proliferation of content
and how can you make content andstand out in this world as a
creator, as a marketer, etcetera.
A few notes there, but, as youmentioned, there's still some
things that have to be shakenout.
But there's some emergentbusiness models, such as, like
Reddit, licensing their data topeople to train their models on
(28:14):
it, and you can definitely put apremium on new data.
So places that have that data,whether it's Twitter, x, reddit,
et cetera, new York Times withtopical new things these are all
still really valuable, sohopefully that the people
producing, like classicpublishers, creators, et cetera
I think there'll still be valuein that, but we still have to.
I think there's still morecards to be played and chips to
(28:38):
fall in terms of like.
Where are that all nets out?
As a creator, you might beworried that, like an AI,
influencer is going to take yourjob, because they can create
endless content and post it and,over time, just gets better and
better and better.
I have seen, though, like anoddly high durability of
(28:59):
influencers.
As someone who's been in thisspace for over a decade probably
12 years actually it isremarkable how robust
influencers as a channel are andI think will be even in the age
of AI.
Who knows if they'll get to apoint where I, as a creator, can
license my name and likenessand use models built on that to
(29:20):
easier, more easily createcontent or drive experiences et
cetera.
I think that's a way thatcreators can scale.
We don't see much of that today, but just the trust that people
have in those channels is ashigh as it's ever been.
I think we'll see a little bitof a resurgence of classical
channels with authoritativenessin an age of AI where nothing
can be really verified.
But people will be looking alsoto these creators that they
(29:43):
know and love and trust andfollow.
I actually am not as worried asothers might be that in AI there
will be AI influencers, but Idon't think that they're just
going to take over.
There's also not the emotionalconnection, like if I showed you
this like amazing impressionist, you know scene in France and
told you one was made by likeMatisse or something and the
(30:03):
others made by AI.
Humans are like, oh screw, thatother thing Like the Matisse
thing is brilliant, even if in ablind test they couldn't tell.
Once you know the providence ofsomething.
It just shifts somethingirreparably in your head, and so
I do think that, no matter what, like influencers have a big,
huge foothold in this medialandscape, and just simply the
providence of them being a realperson and this coming from them
(30:25):
and being curated by them, Ithink it will remain to be a
huge asset.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Man, I think that what you just said, they're so
powerful for everybody that thatdidn't hear what he said the
the providence of something like.
Like art, like people buy theart for the story that's behind
it, to show it off.
Yes, like they, they followpeople that they know, like and
trust like, okay, I got somebooks out there called that, but
, like the reality is it's true,right, like, it's absolutely
(30:52):
true.
I like, I've been talking aboutthis for forever because the
communities grow and it's likeyou don't trust anything and
there's so much information,you're looking for this person
to provide me the news, right,and, and I think that some of
the platform channels know, andthere was okay, we were.
(31:13):
You know we're limiting content, we're doing all this kind of
stuff.
Um, like they're not thesources of truth that that they
once were.
You're really looking ateverything like, is this real?
Like I mean, right now I don'tknow, but I'm I creep on twitter
.
I need need to get morepersonally on Twitter, but I can
tell you, I get so much greatinformation from it, but right
(31:36):
now there's UFO sightings allover the place and I'm like, so
someone posts it and I'm like,wow, but if I knew that person
and they posted it, I couldmessage that person or there
would be a level of like is thisAI generated?
Is this real Like?
I think there's probably ablend, but I don't know who to
(31:58):
trust.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I don't know if this information is good or not.
Like even Elon Musk just landeda rocket and he's like not CGI.
Like you know what I mean it'slike yeah Well, let me give you
an interesting like thoughtexperiment too.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Like I think, like I mean, it's like, here you go and
let me give you an interestingthought experiment too.
Like I think, like taste andcuration is going to be really
important.
You've mentioned this.
You earlier said like you thinkcreativity would be such an
important asset anddifferentiator, and I agree.
I think that curation and tastewill remain a differentiator,
since AI is democratizing forthe production of things and
really shrinking that gapbetween imagination and creation
(32:30):
, which is really like ourmission as a company, by the way
.
But if that's happening, thencreativity is that ultimate,
like final asset and taste isthe asset there where, if you
can imagine it, you can put itto paper now more and more every
day, but as a thoughtexperiment, like let's just say
that there is an account, orlike let's just say that, like
(32:50):
if, if I was an influencer, I'mnot very influential online, but
like people follow you, youmight just be curating images
generated by ai, but your, the,what you curate, still adds a
bit of the story to it, versusan account that's just spitting
them out, and so I think, eveneven if a creator is not created
themselves but curating, Istill think there's power in
that, and, and so I really thinkthat influencers as a channel
(33:13):
if you asked me years ago, Iwouldn't have guessed that
they'd be as durable as they are, but I think they have like a
really strong foothold, and so Ithink it's still worth
investing in.
I don't think creators should beas fearful as they might be and
I think they can take advantageof the media landscape and kind
of the lack of trust.
We'll see, I do think.
Actually, by the way, thebiggest problem with AI near
(33:35):
term, I think long term there'slike tons of opportunity and
tons of problems that will comeup, but near term it's
misinformation and creators,influencers posting like content
that's originating from themwill have a piece where people
can trust certain outlets andcreators.
There will be some that mightbe more known to rile up people,
(33:55):
but then that'll be attached tothem.
They'll have a low authenticityscore in the communities that
they're in because of that.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I love what you're saying right now.
I think this is super goldenfor anybody that's listening,
because curation is a lot ofwhat we did with our podcasts
over the last 12 years.
It's like, okay, someone wrotethis.
Like let's analyze this fromour eyes and share from real
world experience what we've seenand how this applies.
I love that the durabilitycomponent to that, because I
(34:27):
think a lot of creators are likehey, I've built this big
audience, like what's going tohappen?
So I think there's some concernabout that.
But, like, also, online, you'reexposed to so much information
and to your point, yeah, ifthere, if there's people that
are adding value, I follow them.
Right, if there's somebodythat's posting like and I go
(34:49):
check this outlandish comments,I remove because I don't, I
block them.
I'm like I don't, like I amtrying to get a truth feed here
of whatever I'm interested in orhave the curation to that
standpoint and and you can, youcan, you can, you can group that
together.
My last question for you I Ifeel like we've just kind of
(35:09):
started to unpack this really ishow do you influence?
Where do you see the bridgebetween influencers today and in
businesses?
Right, so you have a bigplatform that connects
influencers with brands, right,and so where is that business
opportunity?
Where are people missing out?
(35:31):
Like I think a lot of people arestill running a bunch of
Facebook ads, running a bunch ofyou know Google ads, right,
they haven't really branched outinto kind of the digital PR
landscape and maybe they'veheard about it, or they put a
little bit of money towards itand didn't see anything.
What are they missing?
What's the bridge?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's a great question.
It also differs a little bitwho you are as a business, and
so I'll answer it in a few ways.
Whether, let's say, you're astartup brand on Shopify or
maybe you're an enterprisecompany, it depends a little bit
.
Overall, creators are amazingat creating content and scaling
content, driving like awarenessto your product and
(36:13):
consideration and building acommunity.
But the Shopify type smallerbrands also excel at using them
for conversion and sales.
So I'll split it in a few ways.
At its most basic, if you're asmall to medium-sized business
or a startup or Shopify brand,something like that, you can use
creators as an engine to createa lot of content, start
(36:36):
building a community, likeseeding a community with your
product, et cetera, drivingthings like posts and even
reviews online.
And then, if you end up workingwith a lot of creators, one
thing I'd heavily, heavily callout is that if you're using them
for conversion, it follows apower law, not a bell curve.
(36:57):
So bell curve it's like.
The average is in the middle.
A power law means that 20% ofthe creators will drive 80% of
the results.
So really, what you shouldimagine them as is, if you
worked with like 100 creators,20 of them would drive most of
the sales and of that 20, a fewof them would drive the majority
of those.
So it's really a power curve.
And what I advise people workingwith creators if they're
(37:19):
working with creators forconversion, test and learn, try
a lot of things and then keepdoubling down with the ones that
are working and kind of usethem, work with them as brand
ambassadors.
The most successful people I'veseen on that side are almost
using them like an outbound,like a commission only
Salesforce and they're liketraining in, like having regular
talks and calls, even withthese group of creators, telling
(37:41):
them like, hey, here's what'sworking for the people, sharing
tips and tricks.
But that that's one thing.
On conversion side and as abigger brand, I would really
lean on creators as a way tostay as agile as possible,
creating content as quickly andscaled as possible, because you
need a ton of content for yourads and you can use them in like
your ad units.
So I'd say like the bigger yougo, the more we find our brands
using for content and just rawinfluencer posts.
(38:03):
Then when you go lower on thesize of the company, it's often
geared towards conversion.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, no, what I've seen and tell me what you think.
But if you mapped it out,certainly on the affiliate side,
and I think TikTok store isjust, I mean, people are driving
sales and commission sales,certainly for a lot of SaaS
products and all sorts of things.
But, like, when you look at itfrom a broader standpoint, I
(38:31):
work with some B2B companies B2C, but some big companies and
we're doing thought leadershipand we're creating influence and
it's not just about the bottomline, Right, and so you know
you're running the advertisingto just get the word out there,
to get your name out there, tokind of like, let people know
(38:52):
how you're positioned in themarketplace.
Then the influencers come in andthe PR comes in to help
position it.
So you're on someone's radarwith the advertising, but they
don't know what to think.
They don't know that.
That's where the reviews,that's where the trust comes in.
So the PR gets in their face oflike, okay, I've heard this
(39:12):
brand before, but thisinfluencer that I'm aware of,
like just mentioned it.
Like, ok, now it's on my radar,right, but I've seen you know
that fall off pretty quickly.
Right, you use an influencer,it's initial attention.
Right, like it gets someone'sattention.
But you've got to get them intoyour funnel.
Right, and you've got to haveyour strategy of your, your
content and and you need to behit in with SEO.
Like you need to, you need tobe email dripping.
(39:32):
I'm like you've got to, you'vegot to.
You've got to use theinfluencer to get them on your
list.
Right, and then and then andthen you've got to reel them in,
like the hook some.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And then you've got a real man.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I don't know that.
The influencer hooks them andthen you got a real man.
I don't know.
That's kind of the model, howI've kind of seen it fit in into
the broader perspective ofpeople are thinking about
influencer marketing.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, I would say also like to go off of that.
Like.
Influencers drive considerationbetter than almost any channel,
and then you can use that Like.
Let's say, you work with 20TikTokers to promote your
product.
You give them a basic brief,but they all do their own riff
on it.
One or two of those ads or oneor two of those posts will
perform better than the rest.
You can use that as like akernel for an ad.
(40:15):
That will be very successful.
And so something I'd recommendto everyone is, like we made
popular pace, for example, tomake it easy to like organize
your work there scaling creatorcampaigns.
But I'd also recommend thateveryone have like an editor
that they um you there's.
You can reach out to people onInstagram.
You can if you're just buyingone.
You don't even need to use aplatform like pop pays.
You can just like DM them.
But find an editor whose styleyou like and get a rate with
them so that when you have allthese um assets like if you have
(40:38):
a bunch of influencer poststhey can stitch them into ad
units and you can find you canfind editors online who can just
add a few motion graphics, text, et cetera, text overlay and
turn a really great influencerpost into probably your best
performing ad unit.
So that's one really tried andtrue playbook.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
We've seen All right, corbett, so okay.
So I think that that leads usinto the big question here,
right, and I think you kind oftipped at some stuff, so you
know what is like.
Maybe one or just you know.
However you want to kind offrame it up.
But what's one unknown secretof digital marketing that you
(41:16):
don't think people use enoughand they should be leveraging?
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I mean amazing question, and hence the premise
for the podcast I would saycurrent people to do is try,
using that new cursor on ChatGPTand make a quick pong game
(41:50):
online and you can do it in lessthan a minute.
Try, you know, like LTX Studio,to make a movie you've always
wanted to make in five minutes.
You can now do anything youwant to do, and so creativity is
really the only boundary andbarrier there.
But yeah, I would say that themain secret and trick is to
expand your idea of howtechnical you can be at anything
(42:12):
you want to learn.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Awesome, love it.
Okay, so you've mentioned someof your platforms.
Make sure to get those to meand we'll get those in the show
notes so people can check themout.
But if someone wanted to kindof find out more about what
you're, you know some of thetopics we've talked about.
More about you, more about yourbusinesses.
What's the best way for them?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
to reach out to you.
Since we covered so much ground.
I would say go to leiptrickscomwhere you can see our whole
roster of products, from popularpays, the creator and
influencer marketing platform,to LTX studio, our AI video
platform.
But that that one, that way youcan kind of direct to whatever
of the things I mentionedappeals most to you.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Awesome.
Well, of course, thank thankyou so much for for coming on.
Everyone.
Thank you for sticking with me.
I realized halfway through thisthat I didn't have my sound, so
hopefully I didn't have theright mic on my sound, so
hopefully that was okay.
Sometimes people leave mecomments about that, so
hopefully you stuck through it.
(43:11):
Really appreciate it.
If you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
powerful tool on the planet theinternet, all right, reach out
to EWR Digital for marketingyour business.
Check out MatthewBurchamcom.
We are launching a coachingprogram in January.
There's a lot of good trainingsand things that we're coming
out with, so, so please check itout and until the next time,
(43:34):
bye-bye for now.
Howdy.
Welcome back to anotherfun-filled episode of the
Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
My name is Matt Bertram.
Today I have a special guestfor you, but before we get into
it, I just wanted to giveeverybody a quick update.
I know I hadn't done a podcastfor a minute.
I was at the Brighton SEOConference.
There was a lot of things goingon with all things related to
(00:38):
AI, with digital PR, with linkbuilding, and so went on and
found a great guest for you thatwe're going to be talking about
AI, influencer marketing andthat ecosystem and what's going
to impact it.
I know everybody's worriedabout AI.
Got a lot of really cool stuff.
I'm going to do a training in acouple of weeks as we move into
(01:02):
the new year.
Please go check outMatthewBertramcom if you're
interested in kind of coaching,EWR Digital if you're looking
for your business needsmarketing.
What I'm seeing in someenterprise level data is there's
not a lot of crossover betweenour agency and the podcast.
So I think a lot of podcastlisteners are not aware that
we've been running an agency for25 years and have clients,
(01:27):
small and large, and are good ateverything from search
marketing, web design etc.
So please go check that out,but let's just jump right into
it.
I got Corbett Drumming with metoday.
He's been involved in thisspace for a long time.
He's also part of WhiteCombinator.
Corbett, you were introduced tome from my network, somebody
(01:52):
that I should definitely connectwith.
I want you to introduceyourself I think you could do it
better than me to the audienceand then we can jump into it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Absolutely Well.
Great to meet you, matt.
I'm excited to talk throughthese things today.
And yeah, to start with a bitof background, I'm a startup
founder.
I had co -founded a companycalled Popular Pays, an
influencer and creator marketingplatform, about a decade ago,
and then two years ago we wereacquired by Lightrix, who a lot
of people know because of thepopular photo and video editing
(02:24):
apps they've made, such asFacetune, photoleap and
VideoLeap.
We were their first kind of B2Bproduct acquisition and then
since then in the last year,I've been focused on the AI
video platform called LTX Studio, so we've been building a
platform there, as well as anunderlying foundational video
model that powers it.
(02:45):
So there's a lot we can touchon, kind of where ai intersects
with content creation andinfluencer marketing.
But, yeah, happy to followwherever it might go, whatever
it might be interesting for youraudience yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
So to kind of tee it up, right.
Um, generative images right.
So if we start with generativeimages, which that's turned into
like generative video, right,right.
So if we start with generativeimages, which that's turned into
like generative video, right.
Listening to some of the Googlepeople out there talking about
AI stuff is, I mean, now there'scopyright issues and you know
(03:18):
that's going to be addressed ata bigger level from training the
AIs and that sort of thing.
But the images that are createdand the videos that are created
are unique, right.
So if we focus on SEO for aminute and understand how the
search engines are looking ateverything, they're looking at
this stuff as completely unique.
So, over even stock or stockvideo or something like that, AI
(03:41):
gets a win.
Right, it gets a win.
Also, the tools like MidJourneyand all the other things that
are going on are getting much,much better, right, and so
you've got completely uniquecontent.
You can start to kind of buildout themes.
There's ways to maximizeproductivity from a graphic
(04:02):
design standpoint to help brandsbuild.
You know, you're able to take,you know, blogs and turn them
into videos, like you know,Google released their kind of
podcast thing like there'sthere's so much going on and you
know, every podcast that I'velistened to or person I've
interacted with, they're allworried about AI, right, and you
(04:25):
know, I think that some peopleshould be right and one of the
stories that I actually sharedis I had a content manager
probably about the time ChatGVGcame around and she was like no
AI, right, no AI.
And there's a lot of companiesout that are are using um tools
(04:46):
and and they're like you know,enterprise level tools and
they're like if it's 99 humanwriting one percent ai, it's
like no, go back and then you'rehaving to play with the content
of like this was human written,but, um, you know, there there
are certain ways that arewriting happens.
That is going to show up as, asai is like kind of false
(05:06):
positives to to a certain degree, and I just don't think people
can get away from it.
And so, you know, theconversation started to become
okay, you're not going to bereplaced by AI immediately.
You're going to be replaced bypeople using AI, right, and that
was kind of the kind ofintersection of like hey, we're
going this direction and we'regoing to lean into it and we're
(05:29):
going to be cutting edge withwhat's going on and we're going
to certainly follow the Googleguidelines.
We're going to do all thesethings, but we need to embrace
this because the world'schanging, just kind of like
money's changing with crypto,whatever, like the world is
moving forward and you need tomove forward with it, because
you're going to be replaced bypeople that are leveraging.
Well, now there's this likeabsolute noise proliferation
(05:52):
bots.
I mean, what's real, what's not?
Like we're getting into a realmurky world and I think it's
caused anxiety for a lot ofpeople out there, think it's
caused anxiety for a lot ofpeople out there.
So I would love to just kind ofhear your perspective of the AI
kind of evolution within theinfluencer marketing ecosystem,
(06:13):
to kind of bring those together,and then that could spawn a
couple other questions andconversations.
But we got AI over here, we gotinfluence over here.
I mean these two things arecolliding.
What does that look like?
What are the things you'reseeing?
What are the things that you'reconcerned about?
Just to kind of set the tablefor everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Absolutely.
I mean, you touched on a lot ofgood points in terms of like.
One big topic is brand safetyand rights and usage for AI in
the industry.
Another is this collidingindustry, especially because one
thing I think is worth talkingabout is that, um, really what's
unique about marketing andcontent creation is ai has
impacted our space first andhardest, compared to almost
(06:54):
anything out there.
Yes, ai will change everything,ranging from finance,
healthcare, etc.
But the very first applicationswere in content creation.
So, um, we've had to deal withthat as an industry earlier and
like, harder than everyone elsehas, and so we've seen that this
can mean a few things.
Number one AI is changing howcontent is being created in the
(07:16):
first place.
So how, like the tools thatcreators use and marketers use.
That's one big pillar.
Another is, you know, thiselement of displacement, and
people are worried if it will.
You know, take what, take theirlivelihood, and that might be a
creator displaced, might be amarketer.
I do agree with you that ingeneral, I think you should be
worried more about people usingAI than just AI by itself, but I
(07:41):
, and then the a third part ofthat is rights usage and worries
around that whether that'screators worried about worrying
about their art and likelihood,livelihood or about, like brands
, wondering what is brand safeto use.
There's some huge pillars hereand interestingly we've had a
perspective across all of thembecause we make tools for
creators and marketers.
(08:01):
We've built foundational models.
We know we've been operatingindustry so we've kind of had a
front row seat to all thosedifferent pillars of topics so.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So one of the things that I thought was interesting
is like, um, I forgot thearticle I was reading.
I I'm not sure if it was chad,gbt or what, but it was clear
that something was trained onthe new york times as far as,
like, the response was right.
And also at Brighton there wasa lot of talk about.
Okay, I mean, there was a lotof different segments on the
(08:30):
tracks, on on AI, but it wasreally like what was the
language model trained on?
and it was really talking aboutkind of taking your own data,
creating those kind of subsetsand the human kind of quality of
creativity.
Now, I think images I've seenthe stuff that AI has done and
it blows me away Creativitystandpoint.
(08:52):
Now, on the content side ofthings, I mean, you've got to
still figure out well, what,what are people interested in,
what are people talking about?
Now, a lot of that's going tostart to get automated and
turned out and it's really likehow big is the inventory online
as far as like what, what you'retalking about?
But but I think that that's whyGoogle even added the to the
(09:14):
eat, the experience component,right.
So it's like yo, you talkingabout what you did and what your
experiences with, andinterjecting that human
component, uh, in that, I thinkis is really quite, quite
critical.
But I mean, what are, what areyou seeing?
If you're like you know peopleare using content.
I mean, certainly people weretalking about using it to create
(09:37):
topics, but now ais are aredoing the full boat, right, like
they're doing the heavy lifting, and then even you got stuff.
I I think it's interesting,like if I was in school today,
like how do you grade tests, howdo you figure out like
information, like it think it'sinteresting, like if I was in
school today.
Like how do you grade tests,how do you figure out?
like information, like it's it'spretty crazy in my eyes like
you know what world we live inand what's going to be available
(10:01):
.
I would even tell you me thecredit.
Or I had a big thing withcalculators, right.
Everybody, like put their stuffin the calculator, you put a
bunch of codes on the on theback end and all that.
But I was like I am going touse a calculator forever in the
future, forever, Like I willnever not have a calculator when
I'm doing math, so why do you?
I have to learn it now.
Like, okay, teach me how to doit, but if you're going to give
(10:23):
me a test, let's have a realworld application, right?
So I think that there's a lotof issues that I'm kind of
tapping into, but I think thething that people, what I want
to hear from you is okay, AI ishappening.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
You know, AI is impacting stuff, like where does
the human fit into it?
Like how do you see that?
That's an excellent question,and you know.
By the way, one other thingworth noting is we recently
surveyed a thousand marketers toask them questions about their
usage, so we do have some gooddata on this, most like.
One interesting note, by theway, is that executives are
using it more often than entrylevel people, and I think it's
(11:03):
because the executives arerealizing that it will change
everything and they're trying toget ahead of it.
The executives are realizingthat it will change everything
and they're trying to get aheadof it, whereas sometimes it can
be rough around the edges andentry level folks are saying
that's not there yet, or youknow.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
But when you ask about like where do humans fit
in?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
the picture.
I think it has to do withleverage.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
OK, I think.
Well, I mean, I think that ifyou're, if you're an entry level
and also like, if you look atthe question of the data sets,
right, so if you look at thequestion of the data sets, right
, so, if you look at the datasets, a lot of people are just
playing around with it, right,they're not using it for
business.
If you look at, like, the totalset of searches, like it's four
percent, google was a littleconcerned about the growth rate,
but if you like, dig into thedata, you're just playing around
with it.
(11:42):
People are still using it.
Like you said, I think theexecutives, you know, are trying
to create impact of, okay, likea big proposal or, or this, or
I'm trying to communicate this,or I'm trying to translate that
they have things that that cancreate more value and more
impact, and so they can see AIas creating more leverage,
potentially based on theirvisibility of of what they can
(12:05):
impact individually and maybeentry-level people in their
specific job.
You know, depending on what thatis, might not be as impactful,
but I I do think, like knowledge, workers across the board are
certainly impacted andexecutives could could fall into
that category.
So, if you have any kind ofinformation, like you thought it
(12:25):
was going to impact, like thelower end people first, but it's
actually impacting, like thelawyers, it's impacting
healthcare, I mean, like all thethings that you learn that AI
can do.
Depending on what capacity, youcan create a lot of leverage to
do things that might might takesomeone very skilled that in
(12:47):
pattern, pattern recognition orsomething like that that other
people couldn't.
Maybe I don't know.
I know I kind of cut you off.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, no, it's all good and that's a good interest.
The thing is, we have the dataand the reasons underpinning it.
There's only hypotheticals, andthat's a good one.
One might be that the leverageis a good one.
One could be that, like as Isaid, we think that maybe
executives realize howfundamental of a shift is coming
and they're trying to get aheadof it.
(13:14):
But, as you mentioned, likewith almost every tech trend,
it's usually driven by theentry-level teammates first
adopting things and then therest of the organization, and
this is dramatically different.
However, it is definitely beingadopted as fast as like
anything we've ever seen.
90% of marketers are using itweekly.
(13:36):
A big percentage say it's likecrucial to the job already.
But when you ask about where dohumans fall in the loop, I
really think that I agree withyou around how the folks you
should be worried about arethose that are adopting and
leveraging AI versus AIoperating by itself.
Over time, we'll see more andmore of that.
Hopefully, it's things that theAI takes off our plate that are
more annoying, so we can focuson the bigger and more important
(13:57):
things, but we've alreadystarted to see a few examples of
where AI is taking the lead.
One standout example is inbrand safety.
There are some agencies wherewe've seen vet creators manually
and it takes like four to sixhours per creator, and now AI
can.
Like you know, we built sometools and played around here and
the tool we built, for example,can do it in like minutes and
(14:19):
look back for years, and that'sone where now, conclusively, I
think you can say, like AI isjust flat out better at brand
safety and flagging things.
However, you still want thehuman in the mix.
So I think what we'll see ispeople, whether it's an engineer
working with these codeassisting tools, co-pilot tools,
an agency person reviewingdrafts of things or reviewing
(14:41):
flags that AI has flagged fortargeting and or safety purposes
.
I think we're just going tohave our work scaled.
But then one other thing humanskind of being scaled by AI is
one theme still, I think we'rejust going to have our work
scaled and but then one otherthing like humans kind of being
scaled by AI is one theme.
And then one other theme ishumans becoming more technical.
For example, I'm not technicalbut I can use these tools to
rapidly draft content that Inever could have with like Adobe
before, but now I can get likesomething from my mind's eye
(15:03):
onto paper.
With tools like you know, midjourney or our LTX studio for
video stuff like that, you canget from concept to content and
it makes marketers technical now, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
So I think the interface has been a big part of
it right, like, even like theevolution of mid journey.
You know things like that.
I think that it was designed bycoders for kind of coders,
right, and now they're bringingmore people into.
I mean, you even look at, like,um, all the different ad
platforms, right, like how theywere structured, how they're set
up, like there's a little bitof pain around that, but they're
(15:37):
, they're, they're improvingthat, that process, and I think,
even prompting, like setting up, like prompts for people to to
achieve what they're wanting toachieve.
I think it unlocks a lot ofcreative potential for people
that aren't technical to dothings right, and I'm seeing
this with a lot of differentplatforms across the board, even
(15:57):
building websites, right, likeyou know, you got drag and drop
builders versus having codestuff.
I mean you just look at, likewhat WordPress or some of these
different platforms like Wix arereally doing, um, and then like
again that that patternrecognition or or AI detection,
um, you, you put in, you put inthose uh variables, like for
(16:18):
backlinks, for example, like youcan, you can, like you can
assess data.
I think, again, thoseapplications, even outside of uh
, uh, uh, marketing,specifically like, okay,
identifying this cancer oridentifying like these illnesses
, you run it through patternrecognition and you can like
pull a data set and then it cankind of spit out an answer, most
(16:40):
likely.
And so these applications canbe applied broadly and I like
that as far as, like you know,brand detection and you can set
up kind of different triggers tohave like automated things
happen.
Right.
And I think that the automationis what I'm scared about of
really.
You know, people are setting uplike content machines or you
(17:02):
know, like the AI bots that are.
Just you feed it a prompt andit just goes, goes, goes and
it's going 24, seven, yeah.
And then they're proliferating.
What is it?
The dead internet theory?
What?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
is your point on this Interesting thing?
One last note on the makingmarketers technical, before
going on to the proliferation ofbad content, sometimes because
that's fascinating too, but forfolks listening sometimes you'd
say this like oh, you can now betechnical even if you're a
marketer who wouldn't considerthemselves technical.
(17:32):
I would try two things.
One thing I use it for all thetime is spreadsheet manipulation
.
So, for example, like hey,upload a file to ChatGPT and use
this to combine first and lastname fields and make a new
column.
Or longer things like add a newcolumn and research all these
companies and add the industrythey're in.
Or like basic spreadsheetmanipulation.
That some of them you can do ifyou know Excel shortcuts really
(17:55):
well.
But if you don't, like youdon't even really have to learn
them now you can just promptChatGPT and then basic data
analysis you can do there too.
So that's one quick examplethat I use like every week,
because now, instead of manuallylooking up things, I'll have it
look them up for me and appenda new column.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Are you concerned about you know?
So chat, chat for everybodythat's listening.
Like, pay the extra 20 bucks,like?
I mean it's like one of the mostpowerful tools out there and,
yes, you can get it for free.
But if you're talking aboutuploading documents and stuff
like that, you've got to pay forit.
But if you're giving a bunch ofdata like this has always been
(18:33):
my opinion and I would love tohear your opinion you know, like
OK, if you're running ads andyou upload a bunch of stuff to
Facebook to like, hash, match,to say, hey, target these people
or build this lookalike list,right, yeah, people are like, oh
, this is our data, right, andthey're like this is our data, I
don't want to share it.
I'm like Google has everybody'sdata.
(18:54):
Facebook has got everybody'sdata.
We're just organizing that data.
There's nothing like there's onehalf of 1% that you might add
to the overall mix.
In my opinion, it's justorganization.
But if people are doing stuffand there's a lot of companies
that are limiting the use ofchat, tbt, especially from, okay
(19:15):
, this is, you know, maybe it'strader codes or you know
whatever, but what is your?
How do you do that?
If you're concerned about thedata set and just giving it out
to the public domain, that's agreat question.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'll answer it in two ways.
Like number one, you know, asan enterprise an enterprise, I
should say we use a businesstier for Lightrix, our parent
company.
We have 500 plus people.
We do use a business tierbecause then they guarantee
they're not using that data intraining.
However, I would say, if you'rea startup, do not worry about
it.
And, to be honest, I think thefears are overblown, even from a
(19:48):
traditional perspective.
Even from a traditionalperspective, you never know,
like, for I think that thereason there's the compliance
issues, the reason that theselike larger companies are
worried about it is that they'retrying to do their best to
comply with all these thingslike GDPR et cetera, and so they
need that contractual guaranteethat you're gonna handle my
data properly.
But from a practical point ofview, like, if you're a startup
(20:08):
and you're being like I justwould not, your biggest risk is
not growing and, um, usually youdon't have to worry about the
compliance things as much in thebeginning when you're just
getting started.
And I do think the fears areoverblown about, um, are they
going to use them in some otherway?
It's just really you're signingthe business contracts because
you are trying to get thecontractual guarantee, but
realistically I think you'd befine.
(20:29):
Um, the other part of that is,um, you know, uh, like we, yeah,
we use the um a business a tierto have like access to these
other features and things.
Um, but you know, if you areconcerned about it, even as a
person like, let's just sayyou're uploading something that
you personally are worried about, you can just do a temporary
chat which they say explicitlythey won't use, like that data
(20:49):
is deleted.
So there are, there are optionseven for, like your everyday
user, but 100%, probably thebest money you'll spend as a
business user is like the $20 amonth to access these higher
power models.
It's like a differentexperience.
I haven't yet tried the new $200a month pro version but, to be
honest, like you don't need thepro version unless you're
actually pushing the boundariesof, like scientific literature.
(21:12):
I've I've used it for oneparticular thing.
I was trying to like stump itwith like it's if you're asking
questions about, like a sciencepaper or medical paper or
something like your day to dayusage, you probably are fine
with 4.0, just uploadingdocuments and things.
Maybe a one if you need somelike extra juice.
But, yeah, definitely try thepro as a marketer, it'll make
you technical.
(21:33):
And I want to give one moreexample.
With the provert like 20 amonth, for example, you might
think you're not technical, butreally to dispel that in like
five, no, dispel that in 60seconds, um, go into the version
, go to the new canvas, whichwas released yesterday, I think,
and just say like I want tocreate a working game of Pong,
and you can create it with oneprompt.
(21:54):
Double click it.
Say like save it as an HTMLfile.
Double click it, it opens yourbrowser and it will work right
out of the gate.
And then you can just say likein the cursor, say like well,
can you make the background blueand can you give me a button to
increase the sensitivity of thearrow keys?
You will be able to code withEnglish.
And so now I think it'simportant for marketers to
realize that these tools makeyou good enough and can help you
(22:14):
cross that chasm.
So where you are, you can betechnical.
And that will be a hard thingfor people to shake if they've
been in this space for a while,but people just entering it will
kind of grasp it intuitively.
But yeah, I'd say you should beworried about the marketer,
that's 10X-ing their owncapabilities by leaning on these
tools.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I would say that I think the pendulum swings back
to creativity right, like if youdon't have the foundational
knowledge right initially, youdon't even know what to ask
right.
Or how to kind of structure it,because it's a support tool in
that.
I mean, what are you seeing?
How is AI impacting theplatforms, the creators, the
brands, the audiences?
(22:53):
How would you-.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Man.
So I'd say there's definitelysome underlying anxiety, for
example, both on the creators aswell as people making the tools
, like us, because there'salways a new model, we're always
having to upgrade and stay ontop of it and it's moving faster
than ever.
And for creators, they'rehaving to learn new tools all
the time.
I think there's some anxietythat they might be replaced and
or taken advantage of because of, for example, the training data
(23:16):
and the training sets.
They're worried, you know, am Ias an artist or creator, is
this, you know, unfairly usingthat data?
And there's a lot of thingspending, like you said, like the
kind of a landmark.
The New York Times lawsuit is alandmark example of that.
So there is some anxiety aboutits IP issues in the creative
field.
But I think you also mentionedthis beginning.
(23:37):
It's just inevitable andinescapable that it is impacting
things and when you think backto artists of the day, they were
using the most up-to-date andlatest technology to make their
works.
The thing that we considered,like you know, kind of classical
art back then was reallypushing boundaries and the
things that we think, whetherit's music and old production
(23:59):
techniques, like they were, theywere pushing these, like tapes
and things to the limit and Ithink the like modern artists
using that and embracing it,we'll be able to build a lot
more interesting and amazingthings with it.
So it'll push the boundaries aswell.
So there's this element of likedemocratizing and making
everyone technical, whether acreator, engineer, whatever.
(24:21):
There's that element of anxietyabout, like, people wondering
about where their place is andpeople always having to adopt
the next thing or, for us, buildthe next thing.
But I do think it, I am anoptimist and I do think it opens
up possibilities more thananything else and we will have a
golden age of content creation.
I think you're right in thatthere is going to be this
proliferation of a thousandtimes more stuff.
That's bad, but with AI, youcan also surface the gems better
than ever before.
(24:41):
So there's a stat that's like,every two years, there's more
content created that year thanentire history of humankind
before that, and that willaccelerate.
I think it's inevitable andit'll hold true.
It'll continue to hold in true,but I think that, yes, there'll
be a lot of bland stuff createdwith AI, but we have the
technology to also surface thebest things for people to see.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So I think that's a great, great point and that's
what I'm definitely seeing.
Right.
So a lot of content's beingcreated and Google stopped
indexing.
A'm definitely seeing right so,a lot of content's being
created and Google stoppedindexing.
A lot of content, right.
If it's low quality content,it's like we can't even keep
this in our directories of oursearch engines because it's just
not valuable, right?
So one, it goes away.
(25:25):
Right, if there's too muchinventory and then out of the
inventory there is, a lot ofpeople can answer the question.
They're trying to just keep youon Google's and say, hey,
here's the AI summary.
Like zero click, here you go,here's the answer.
So if you're going to beproducing content, it needs to
be like a couple of tiers abovethat.
(25:45):
And how many people do youreally have that are competing
on that level?
I've seen with like very bigcompanies versus startups.
One of the biggest things thatI remember when I was like
really heavily in that world was, okay, microsoft, where my mom
was like one of the firstemployees at Microsoft and you
know she would always tell me,yeah, we got like two people at
(26:06):
the whole company working onthis like one thing, right, you
know, or whatever.
And so you like, look at thiswhole company, you're like I
can't beat this whole company,but, depending on like whatever
the problem is you're trying tosolve, you know, like it was
like like just the analogy, Iwas like one person's really
working hard, so you'recompeting with that person.
One person's looking for theirnext job right, and they're like
whatever.
And then one person's likescrewing off, like, and so it's
(26:27):
like so, so, so you're, you'renot.
You're not at that big of adisadvantage.
Where you have the advantage isyou're more able to move quick,
right, like you don't haveapprovals, you don't have all
the red tape, like, you canpivot, you can figure stuff out.
So you're more agile, and Ithink that you know if you're
(26:48):
trying to be very narrow and youknow what you're solving for,
um, you know ai, whatever youhave, you have that leverage in,
like a reddit post.
Or you know um social media,like these algorithms, like okay
, you're producing stuff fortiktok, youtube, instagram,
whatever it's going to go viral,right, like one post could go
viral.
(27:09):
The game has changed, right?
I would love to hear your takeon like kind of lessons learned
as well as how is influencerright, like, how is it so they
get AI influencers.
You got like fake AI bots thatare posting stuff, generating
money, like you hear about a lotof that in the news.
(27:29):
But if you're an influencer,how do you leverage AI?
And also, like, where isinfluencer marketing fitting
into the broader scope of thedigital landscape, the marketing
mix, like when you're lookingat so kind of go big picture and
kind of narrow it down to AIand influencers.
I'd love to kind of see whatyou've learned there and that
kind of thing.
(27:50):
To start, there's two things.
I'd love to kind of see whatyou've learned there and that
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
To start, there's two things.
It ties into the question ofthis proliferation of content
and how can you make content andstand out in this world as a
creator, as a marketer, etcetera.
A few notes there, but, as youmentioned, there's still some
things that have to be shakenout.
But there's some emergentbusiness models, such as, like
Reddit, licensing their data topeople to train their models on
(28:14):
it, and you can definitely put apremium on new data.
So places that have that data,whether it's Twitter, x, reddit,
et cetera, new York Times withtopical new things these are all
still really valuable, sohopefully that the people
producing, like classicpublishers, creators, et cetera
I think there'll still be valuein that, but we still have to.
I think there's still morecards to be played and chips to
(28:38):
fall in terms of like.
Where are that all nets out?
As a creator, you might beworried that, like an AI,
influencer is going to take yourjob, because they can create
endless content and post it and,over time, just gets better and
better and better.
I have seen, though, like anoddly high durability of
(28:59):
influencers.
As someone who's been in thisspace for over a decade probably
12 years actually it isremarkable how robust
influencers as a channel are andI think will be even in the age
of AI.
Who knows if they'll get to apoint where I, as a creator, can
license my name and likenessand use models built on that to
(29:20):
easier, more easily createcontent or drive experiences et
cetera.
I think that's a way thatcreators can scale.
We don't see much of that today, but just the trust that people
have in those channels is ashigh as it's ever been.
I think we'll see a little bitof a resurgence of classical
channels with authoritativenessin an age of AI where nothing
can be really verified.
But people will be looking alsoto these creators that they
(29:43):
know and love and trust andfollow.
I actually am not as worried asothers might be that in AI there
will be AI influencers, but Idon't think that they're just
going to take over.
There's also not the emotionalconnection, like if I showed you
this like amazing impressionist, you know scene in France and
told you one was made by likeMatisse or something and the
(30:03):
others made by AI.
Humans are like, oh screw, thatother thing Like the Matisse
thing is brilliant, even if in ablind test they couldn't tell.
Once you know the providence ofsomething.
It just shifts somethingirreparably in your head, and so
I do think that, no matter what, like influencers have a big,
huge foothold in this medialandscape, and just simply the
providence of them being a realperson and this coming from them
(30:25):
and being curated by them, Ithink it will remain to be a
huge asset.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Man, I think that what you just said, they're so
powerful for everybody that thatdidn't hear what he said the
the providence of something like.
Like art, like people buy theart for the story that's behind
it, to show it off.
Yes, like they, they followpeople that they know, like and
trust like, okay, I got somebooks out there called that, but
, like the reality is it's true,right, like, it's absolutely
(30:52):
true.
I like, I've been talking aboutthis for forever because the
communities grow and it's likeyou don't trust anything and
there's so much information,you're looking for this person
to provide me the news, right,and, and I think that some of
the platform channels know, andthere was okay, we were.
(31:13):
You know we're limiting content, we're doing all this kind of
stuff.
Um, like they're not thesources of truth that that they
once were.
You're really looking ateverything like, is this real?
Like I mean, right now I don'tknow, but I'm I creep on twitter
.
I need need to get morepersonally on Twitter, but I can
tell you, I get so much greatinformation from it, but right
(31:36):
now there's UFO sightings allover the place and I'm like, so
someone posts it and I'm like,wow, but if I knew that person
and they posted it, I couldmessage that person or there
would be a level of like is thisAI generated?
Is this real Like?
I think there's probably ablend, but I don't know who to
(31:58):
trust.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
And.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
I don't know if this information is good or not.
Like even Elon Musk just landeda rocket and he's like not CGI.
Like you know what I mean it'slike yeah Well, let me give you
an interesting like thoughtexperiment too.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Like I think, like I mean, it's like, here you go and
let me give you an interestingthought experiment too.
Like I think, like taste andcuration is going to be really
important.
You've mentioned this.
You earlier said like you thinkcreativity would be such an
important asset anddifferentiator, and I agree.
I think that curation and tastewill remain a differentiator,
since AI is democratizing forthe production of things and
really shrinking that gapbetween imagination and creation
(32:30):
, which is really like ourmission as a company, by the way
.
But if that's happening, thencreativity is that ultimate,
like final asset and taste isthe asset there where, if you
can imagine it, you can put itto paper now more and more every
day, but as a thoughtexperiment, like let's just say
that there is an account, orlike let's just say that, like
(32:50):
if, if I was an influencer, I'mnot very influential online, but
like people follow you, youmight just be curating images
generated by ai, but your, the,what you curate, still adds a
bit of the story to it, versusan account that's just spitting
them out, and so I think, eveneven if a creator is not created
themselves but curating, Istill think there's power in
that, and, and so I really thinkthat influencers as a channel
(33:13):
if you asked me years ago, Iwouldn't have guessed that
they'd be as durable as they are, but I think they have like a
really strong foothold, and so Ithink it's still worth
investing in.
I don't think creators should beas fearful as they might be and
I think they can take advantageof the media landscape and kind
of the lack of trust.
We'll see, I do think.
Actually, by the way, thebiggest problem with AI near
(33:35):
term, I think long term there'slike tons of opportunity and
tons of problems that will comeup, but near term it's
misinformation and creators,influencers posting like content
that's originating from themwill have a piece where people
can trust certain outlets andcreators.
There will be some that mightbe more known to rile up people,
(33:55):
but then that'll be attached tothem.
They'll have a low authenticityscore in the communities that
they're in because of that.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I love what you're saying right now.
I think this is super goldenfor anybody that's listening,
because curation is a lot ofwhat we did with our podcasts
over the last 12 years.
It's like, okay, someone wrotethis.
Like let's analyze this fromour eyes and share from real
world experience what we've seenand how this applies.
I love that the durabilitycomponent to that, because I
(34:27):
think a lot of creators are likehey, I've built this big
audience, like what's going tohappen?
So I think there's some concernabout that.
But, like, also, online, you'reexposed to so much information
and to your point, yeah, ifthere, if there's people that
are adding value, I follow them.
Right, if there's somebodythat's posting like and I go
(34:49):
check this outlandish comments,I remove because I don't, I
block them.
I'm like I don't, like I amtrying to get a truth feed here
of whatever I'm interested in orhave the curation to that
standpoint and and you can, youcan, you can, you can group that
together.
My last question for you I Ifeel like we've just kind of
(35:09):
started to unpack this really ishow do you influence?
Where do you see the bridgebetween influencers today and in
businesses?
Right, so you have a bigplatform that connects
influencers with brands, right,and so where is that business
opportunity?
Where are people missing out?
(35:31):
Like I think a lot of people arestill running a bunch of
Facebook ads, running a bunch ofyou know Google ads, right,
they haven't really branched outinto kind of the digital PR
landscape and maybe they'veheard about it, or they put a
little bit of money towards itand didn't see anything.
What are they missing?
What's the bridge?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's a great question.
It also differs a little bitwho you are as a business, and
so I'll answer it in a few ways.
Whether, let's say, you're astartup brand on Shopify or
maybe you're an enterprisecompany, it depends a little bit
.
Overall, creators are amazingat creating content and scaling
content, driving like awarenessto your product and
(36:13):
consideration and building acommunity.
But the Shopify type smallerbrands also excel at using them
for conversion and sales.
So I'll split it in a few ways.
At its most basic, if you're asmall to medium-sized business
or a startup or Shopify brand,something like that, you can use
creators as an engine to createa lot of content, start
(36:36):
building a community, likeseeding a community with your
product, et cetera, drivingthings like posts and even
reviews online.
And then, if you end up workingwith a lot of creators, one
thing I'd heavily, heavily callout is that if you're using them
for conversion, it follows apower law, not a bell curve.
(36:57):
So bell curve it's like.
The average is in the middle.
A power law means that 20% ofthe creators will drive 80% of
the results.
So really, what you shouldimagine them as is, if you
worked with like 100 creators,20 of them would drive most of
the sales and of that 20, a fewof them would drive the majority
of those.
So it's really a power curve.
And what I advise people workingwith creators if they're
(37:19):
working with creators forconversion, test and learn, try
a lot of things and then keepdoubling down with the ones that
are working and kind of usethem, work with them as brand
ambassadors.
The most successful people I'veseen on that side are almost
using them like an outbound,like a commission only
Salesforce and they're liketraining in, like having regular
talks and calls, even withthese group of creators, telling
(37:41):
them like, hey, here's what'sworking for the people, sharing
tips and tricks.
But that that's one thing.
On conversion side and as abigger brand, I would really
lean on creators as a way tostay as agile as possible,
creating content as quickly andscaled as possible, because you
need a ton of content for yourads and you can use them in like
your ad units.
So I'd say like the bigger yougo, the more we find our brands
using for content and just rawinfluencer posts.
(38:03):
Then when you go lower on thesize of the company, it's often
geared towards conversion.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, no, what I've seen and tell me what you think.
But if you mapped it out,certainly on the affiliate side,
and I think TikTok store isjust, I mean, people are driving
sales and commission sales,certainly for a lot of SaaS
products and all sorts of things.
But, like, when you look at itfrom a broader standpoint, I
(38:31):
work with some B2B companies B2C, but some big companies and
we're doing thought leadershipand we're creating influence and
it's not just about the bottomline, Right, and so you know
you're running the advertisingto just get the word out there,
to get your name out there, tokind of like, let people know
(38:52):
how you're positioned in themarketplace.
Then the influencers come in andthe PR comes in to help
position it.
So you're on someone's radarwith the advertising, but they
don't know what to think.
They don't know that.
That's where the reviews,that's where the trust comes in.
So the PR gets in their face oflike, okay, I've heard this
(39:12):
brand before, but thisinfluencer that I'm aware of,
like just mentioned it.
Like, ok, now it's on my radar,right, but I've seen you know
that fall off pretty quickly.
Right, you use an influencer,it's initial attention.
Right, like it gets someone'sattention.
But you've got to get them intoyour funnel.
Right, and you've got to haveyour strategy of your, your
content and and you need to behit in with SEO.
Like you need to, you need tobe email dripping.
(39:32):
I'm like you've got to, you'vegot to.
You've got to use theinfluencer to get them on your
list.
Right, and then and then andthen you've got to reel them in,
like the hook some.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And then you've got a real man.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
I don't know that.
The influencer hooks them andthen you got a real man.
I don't know.
That's kind of the model, howI've kind of seen it fit in into
the broader perspective ofpeople are thinking about
influencer marketing.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, I would say also like to go off of that.
Like.
Influencers drive considerationbetter than almost any channel,
and then you can use that Like.
Let's say, you work with 20TikTokers to promote your
product.
You give them a basic brief,but they all do their own riff
on it.
One or two of those ads or oneor two of those posts will
perform better than the rest.
You can use that as like akernel for an ad.
(40:15):
That will be very successful.
And so something I'd recommendto everyone is, like we made
popular pace, for example, tomake it easy to like organize
your work there scaling creatorcampaigns.
But I'd also recommend thateveryone have like an editor
that they um you there's.
You can reach out to people onInstagram.
You can if you're just buyingone.
You don't even need to use aplatform like pop pays.
You can just like DM them.
But find an editor whose styleyou like and get a rate with
them so that when you have allthese um assets like if you have
(40:38):
a bunch of influencer poststhey can stitch them into ad
units and you can find you canfind editors online who can just
add a few motion graphics, text, et cetera, text overlay and
turn a really great influencerpost into probably your best
performing ad unit.
So that's one really tried andtrue playbook.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
We've seen All right, corbett, so okay.
So I think that that leads usinto the big question here,
right, and I think you kind oftipped at some stuff, so you
know what is like.
Maybe one or just you know.
However you want to kind offrame it up.
But what's one unknown secretof digital marketing that you
(41:16):
don't think people use enoughand they should be leveraging?
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I mean amazing question, and hence the premise
for the podcast I would saycurrent people to do is try,
using that new cursor on ChatGPTand make a quick pong game
(41:50):
online and you can do it in lessthan a minute.
Try, you know, like LTX Studio,to make a movie you've always
wanted to make in five minutes.
You can now do anything youwant to do, and so creativity is
really the only boundary andbarrier there.
But yeah, I would say that themain secret and trick is to
expand your idea of howtechnical you can be at anything
(42:12):
you want to learn.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Awesome, love it.
Okay, so you've mentioned someof your platforms.
Make sure to get those to meand we'll get those in the show
notes so people can check themout.
But if someone wanted to kindof find out more about what
you're, you know some of thetopics we've talked about.
More about you, more about yourbusinesses.
What's the best way for them?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
to reach out to you.
Since we covered so much ground.
I would say go to leiptrickscomwhere you can see our whole
roster of products, from popularpays, the creator and
influencer marketing platform,to LTX studio, our AI video
platform.
But that that one, that way youcan kind of direct to whatever
of the things I mentionedappeals most to you.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Awesome.
Well, of course, thank thankyou so much for for coming on.
Everyone.
Thank you for sticking with me.
I realized halfway through thisthat I didn't have my sound, so
hopefully I didn't have theright mic on my sound, so
hopefully that was okay.
Sometimes people leave mecomments about that, so
hopefully you stuck through it.
(43:11):
Really appreciate it.
If you want to grow yourbusiness with the largest, most
powerful tool on the planet theinternet, all right, reach out
to EWR Digital for marketingyour business.
Check out MatthewBurchamcom.
We are launching a coachingprogram in January.
There's a lot of good trainingsand things that we're coming
out with, so, so please check itout and until the next time,
(43:34):
bye-bye for now.
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