Email marketing still converts better than most digital channels, yet many businesses overlook this powerful tool because of misconceptions about its effectiveness or complexity.
• Email is definitely not dead – it's been generating millions in revenue for over a decade
• Design doesn't matter in email – focus on consistency and authenticity instead
• The sweet spot for email frequency is 2-4 times per month
• DNS records (SPF, DKIM, DMARC) are now essential for good deliverability
• Different platforms serve different needs – MailChimp for beginners, Active Campaign for automation, GoHighLevel for all-in-one
• Lead magnets should provide genuine value worth at least a couple hundred dollars
• Perfectionism kills results – "good enough to get it out there" is a winning philosophy
• Structure emails with curiosity in subject lines, a hook at the beginning, storytelling in the middle, and a clear CTA
• The 7-11-4 principle: prospects need 7 hours of content, seeing your message 11 times, across 4 channels
• Being "unapologetically authentic" builds stronger connections than polished marketing
-----
Guest Information:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
For any of you that arewatching, I'm at the office.
My internet just went downright before this, so I'm a
little disheveled, but I have agreat podcast guest for you
today.
Really, one of the things thatI've been talking about and
we've been working on internallyis email marketing and how
important newsletters are.
(00:36):
I have news for you.
At Brighton, SEO Ma spokeemails still convert the best,
and so I thought it'd be greatto bring on a guest that
specializes in okay, yes, gohigh levels, hot right now, but
go high level also activecampaign.
That's actually what we useinternally.
(00:57):
Email marketing is not dead andI can tell you let's get into a
little bit more in this podcast.
Just to let you know, coachingcourse is live at
MatthewBertramcom.
Go check it out.
If you get any value from thispodcast, please share, like,
follow.
Whatever.
We appreciate the engagement.
I am stepping out of the agencyas much as I can every month
(01:23):
because we have a team that cando it all, so I will be doing
more trainings and more content,so hit me up.
I want to now introduce JasonWright.
Jason, how are you doing,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm doing great man.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, so Jason's with internationallyinspirely
inspirelycom.
They do.
They focus on automatedmarketing, they focus on paid
ads.
You know just really what wewere talking about in the kind
of pre-interview and we can justpick up our conversation, jason
of like there's a lot of peopleout there that claim to be
(02:01):
internet marketing experts and Ican tell you that one of the
biggest challenges we deal withwhen we're interacting with new
clients they've been burned bysomebody in the past, right, so
they have this baggage thatthey're coming with and they're
like, hey, either it didn't workfor me or, man, like I just
can't trust anybody.
How do I find the right personto trust?
And so you know, I just wantedto kind of start it off there
(02:22):
what are your thoughts aroundkind of like email automation in
general?
Let's just kind of go thereLike has it died?
And then we can get into maybehow to select the right vendor
and we can maybe talk about somecase studies and some of the
things that you've seen reallyleverage email marketing to
convert clients and customers.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I appreciate the intro.
So when I started my company 10years ago, people were saying
email was dead then.
So I think it's an excusepeople throw out there so it
makes them feel better about notdoing anything with it.
But it's certainly not dead.
It works really well.
I've generated millions ofdollars online with email
marketing so it definitely works.
And I think one of the biggestproblems with it is people build
(03:06):
up this idea in their head ofwhat it needs to be.
And the number one thing thatpeople focus on too much is the
design.
The design doesn't matter atall.
No one's going to remember whatit looked like an hour from the
time they read it.
And the reason why is all of usget inundated with outbound all
day, every day and every pieceof our life.
So they will remember theyheard from you.
(03:27):
They're not gonna remember whatpictures or what colors you use
.
Nobody cares so, and that's notmeant to be negative.
It's just meant to say hey,stop making up excuses for not
doing it, just do it.
It's not hard, it doesn'trequire anything crazy.
So one thing that has changedwith email marketing is DNS
records used to be the exception.
Now it's definitely the rule.
So email deliverability hasbecome more challenging, but
(03:51):
it's not challenging.
Right, there's things you needto do with some of your DNS
records.
All the big providers tell youwhat to do and if you do that
you'll hit more inboxes and ifyou don't, you shouldn't even
waste your time trying to emailmarket, because it's just not
going to work out well, butemail marketing is, you know,
it's kind of the foundation ofwhat we build our business on.
(04:12):
I also really like textmarketing.
I think text marketing iseffective, you get higher
engagement.
Simple, but with all thesethings, man, you're basically
starting new conversations andkeeping them going Same thing we
do in real life.
So that is the simplest waythat I can break it down.
And really you're emailing fortwo reasons from a really high
(04:35):
level.
One, you're emailing to getpeople on a call and I'm just
focused on high-ticket servicebusinesses, so I think about my
own business but you're workingto get people on a call.
Then, after the call, if theydon't buy the thing that you
offered, you're emailing themagain to nurture them and keep
the conversation going.
So if you think about that inyour business, you can see, by
(04:56):
removing that, you're reallymissing out on a lot of
opportunities, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So I want to circle back to something you said
previously that I really want tokey in on.
So I was actually on a RussellBrunson ClickFunnels conference,
right, and they brought on likeNapoleon Hill or not.
They didn't bring him on, butthey showed some videos of him
talking about it and one of hispartners Napoleon Hill's
(05:22):
partners made so much money frommindset and he kept saying do
it now, do it now.
And everybody that worked forhim I could forget who it was,
but it was like he said ahundred times a day do it now.
And he made everybody thatworked for him say do it now.
And then also there's a bookwritten by uh I just got back
from podfest um, uh called startugly, right, and so you just
(05:44):
got to get started, do something, get that initial inertia
moving and then you can perfectit.
And even with podcasting, likepeople fall off before seven
podcasts, right, like you justgot to start that process and
get moving on that.
And I think email is so critical.
Email is just like an addressthat someone has like for, like
(06:06):
mailers, that they don't changeemails for like eight years
typically.
And if the deliverability isgood and it doesn't go to like
spam, you're going to get rightin front of that person that
they're checking every day.
Now text, I think you know 99%like open rate on top of it,
even if it's spam like, why areyou not doing that of it?
(06:27):
Even if it's spam like, why areyou not doing that?
And I, I, I was in a trainingyears ago and it said what is
the relationship you want tohave with your customer, right,
so is it quarterly?
Like, oh, I know who thatperson is Like.
If you send stuff quarterly,you'll probably get put on a
spam list more than if you sendstuff daily, cause they don't
even know who you are, right,like, so it's based on that
relationship.
So, like you know, how close doyou want to be to them?
You know, really, weekly, Ithink, is really good, monthly
(06:50):
is okay.
You know daily if you're tryingto build that really close
rapport with them, like a bestfriend or a family member, like
you got to think about all thatand you got to think about a lot
of different things of howmaybe let's talk about that how
would you set up like a standardcampaign for you know, I don't
know e-commerce business andthen we'll say like a service
business or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's different pieces of it, right.
So for e-com, a lot of whenpeople are coming in is to get
the 15% off right To hear aboutthe sales or if it's a, it's a
shopping cart abandonment typething.
But the newsletters I like oncea week.
If you're emailing me more thanonce a week I don't want to be
your friend.
That's too much right.
But once a month I'm going toforget about you.
So I think the magic is and itdepends on your personality.
(07:32):
If you're authentically likeevery day feels good, do it.
Once a month is not enough.
But somewhere between two tofour times a month is a good
range.
And if you can do twice a monthfor six months, then step it up
, because some people reallystruggle with that commitment.
They make it this really bigdeal and it's not so.
The service-based business iskind of what I said before right
(07:54):
, they could come in through alead magnet or come in through a
program and get some value, butgetting them on that newsletter
list where they can kind of seewhat you're doing, and I urge
this to people all the time.
And I urge this to people allthe time and I'm not giving any
advice here or anywhere everthat I don't follow myself.
It's all based on actualexperience and never theory.
But be yourself, man.
(08:14):
Put your wins and, moreimportantly, your losses out
there, because people don't wantto connect with your brand,
they want to connect withMatthew, they want to connect
with Jason.
So put yourself out there.
Some of the best open rates youwill get on emails are emails
like.
You're not going to believethis massive failure I had.
People are sick man.
They love that stuff.
So why do you think reality TVis so popular?
(08:36):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
No, I just totally agree with you.
I think that really you've gotto think about what are you
trying to do with email?
You're trying to connect withsomebody one-to-one.
And if you're always puttingyour best foot forward, it's
like everybody can look good inan interview.
You know what I mean.
People want to know the realyou.
They want that authentic feel.
And also, if you're notpassionate about something or
(09:00):
you're doing something because,oh, I need to do this, because X
, y, z, but it's not inside you,you're not going to keep it up.
So, speaking to the once a day,like there's, there's things
ritualistically like that, likecertain kinds of news that I
look at, I could easily turnthat into a newsletter and just
share what I'm finding with it.
Right, like, so it's not.
(09:20):
It's not that hard to findsomething If you're passionate
about it, that you have a why toconnect with somebody on how to
do it.
And you know, I think minimumyou have to do it once a month.
Because if you do, if you don'tdo it once a month and you just
start sending emails later,that whole list is dead, I think
, because you're going to get somuch spam off it and and you're
(09:40):
really looking for engagement,right, so you want to constantly
stay in front of them.
Even if they don't even readthe email, they're still seeing
it.
Like, and I would even say likeon LinkedIn.
Linkedin's got a lot better andit's a LinkedIn's job to filter
out all that spam, becausemarketers, of course, ruin
everything.
But I'm going to tell you, evenif you sent that spam email in
LinkedIn, if those people arelocking into LinkedIn and
(10:02):
they're posting, they're goingto see your name, they're going
to see what you do and they'regoing to see that headline.
And when I, when I do emailmarketing which was, it's like
an add on service for for otherthings that we do Um, I, you
know, if I don't, if I don'tknow what the right thing to do
is, I just use the wholealphabet and I test.
You know, I'll set it up, orI'll set up like 26 different
(10:24):
titles and figure out what arepeople responding to.
And then that's the great magicabout internet marketing is you
can continue to optimize basedupon data.
You don't have to just guesslike in branding or traditional
marketing.
So I think it's super powerful.
And the email analytics I meanthat, that should that, and SEO.
(10:45):
In my opinion, that and SEO arekind of like the core of your
business, because peoplecontinuously organically find
you at all funnels of thechannel.
And then email should work fromnot just like cold email, but
nurture existing clients,keeping people up to date of
what's going on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So you said something earlier in the show I wanted to
touch on.
So you really were talkingabout just get started with
where you are.
So a phrase we use in ourbusiness and that I live by is
good enough to get it out there.
Right, just before this podcast, I launched a new Facebook ad.
It goes into active campaignand all that exists there is a
(11:24):
notification.
There's no email.
I'll get to it later today.
Right, I didn't have time tofinish it, but at least that
damn ad is out there andapproved and I'll get the rest
of it built.
I can't tell you the amount ofautomations where people have
hit an email and below it it'sblank.
And I know I have a three-daywait and I haven't even finished
it yet because so many peoplein business this is all parts of
business and in life right, yougot me up in this soapbox now.
(11:47):
So now you got to hear it theywant to wait till things are
perfect.
No one cares if it's perfectand they're not going to know if
it's perfect or not, becausethose are your rules you're
assigning to it, not somebodyelse's.
So if it's perfect and on theshelf, it doesn't have any value
.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's got to be in the game.
So so to even pile on moreright, a social media post on
average has a four hour lifespan.
Okay and like, even if you startlooking at, like all kinds of
like really interesting data,people are more concerned if you
meet somebody with how theyacted.
In that scenario, there's like20% memory in anything that you
even did.
So, unless you did somethingthat hit the um, you know really
(12:35):
bad, really good, you blendinto, like, you know you just,
you just blend into thebackground.
Obscurity is the word I waslooking for, but what I can tell
you is you want to make surewhatever your message is, boom,
you hit that message and thenall all that else that matters
is just that you're availableand you're following up and
you're, you're there, but peoplejust, yeah, I think that
(12:58):
there's uh, people freeze anddon't execute.
Um, now certainly you run an ador something like that and, uh,
the link doesn't work, like,you want to double check and
make sure, uh, but, but some ofthese platforms will protect you
in that.
But email marketing that email,you know, is going to be seen
by people for three seconds orseven seconds and then they're
probably not going to see itagain.
(13:19):
And so you know, would yourather create that touch point
or not?
Right, like, and so you, yougot to take massive action to uh
change like your trajectory aswell as like where you're
currently at.
Like, and that's what I think alot of people don't understand,
is how much action has to betaken to move the needle because
(13:41):
there's so much noise.
There's something like I don'teven know.
I at one point it was like 800messages a day, but it's gotta
be double that or triple thatnow that we get inundated with
it.
So how do you cut through theclutter?
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Inundated with it.
So how do you cut through?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
the clutter.
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Yeah, that's the key rightthere.
It's just like the weight room.
If you go to the weight roomand have the best workout of
your life once a month, you'renever going to see any change.
It's not going to happen Now.
If you do a C plus workout fivedays a week, you're going to
see a difference in three months, big time.
So it's not my opinion,important than anything.
What's?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
the secret to success .
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Be consistent with something right.
Well, I'm not seeing results.
Do it longer or try somethingdifferent, but nothing good
comes overnight.
Man, the hardest lesson.
I talked to somebody the otherday about this hardest lesson
I've had to learn as anentrepreneur.
I was not a patient person whenI started this business 10
years ago, but what I found isthe timeline is unknown.
Right For things to happenclick, change, blow up, whatever
(14:38):
.
I don't know what it's going tobe, so you keep going until it
happens Like I'm not a I'm goingto try this and go back to
corporate America kind of guy.
I'm not that guy at all.
Last year was actually a very,maybe the hardest year I've ever
had in business Very hard.
My wife at one point was likedo you think you need to go get
a job?
And I said I will never get ajob that pays what I make now.
(14:59):
That's not an option.
Never say that to me again.
Get out of my face.
We're not doing that Right andI'm wired that way.
Most people aren't, but I'mwired that way.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But let's find a bad offer.
And if you, if you want a 10 toX better return on, like,
create a 10 X better offer,right, and I like the
consistency of the military justreally helps you.
Or having that routine, whetherit's working out or whatever,
getting up to do those things,and you're right.
Like you, you work out forforever.
You don't know when the musclesare going to start showing up,
you don't know when the six packis going to be there, like you
(15:57):
just keep going because you knowyou're doing the right thing
and you're moving in the rightdirection, and certainly some
actions better than no action,because you're definitely going
to be moving towards that goalor away from it.
Now I want to switch gears.
We were talking in thepre-interview about active
campaign, go high level.
So a lot of people that listen,if they're not in digital
marketing, a lot of people thatlisten are in digital marketing.
(16:19):
But there's a lot of kind ofpeople that are taking over
their parents' business or theybought in a business or they're
trying to digitally transformtheir company from the
traditional way to generateleads.
And you got HubSpot advertisingreally strongly.
You got active campaign outthere, you got go high levelaign
out there.
You got GoHighLevel.
Gohighlevel seems to be the hotthing out there.
I remember when GoHighLevellaunched there was no even
(16:41):
manual how to use it.
There was no customer support.
It was really tough, buteverybody that knew how to use
it was just absolutely ravingabout it.
Now I think we've come a longway since then, but maybe you
could kind of set the table asfar as, like I mean infusion
soft.
So on the click funnelsconference they were talking
about confusion soft thatthey're just kind of like
(17:03):
knocking on it, like so like setthe table for like the
different um email marketingtools and maybe what, how you
view what they might be usedbest for, because everybody's
positioned a little differently.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, great, great question.
So go high level.
It's everything ClickFunnelswanted to be initially.
I'm just a straight shooter, sogo high level.
The Calendly feature looksexactly like Calendly they
ripped it off.
The automation builders, likeActiveCampaign, looks a little
older but it's more powerful.
It's an attempt to be anall-in-one tool.
I've never seen an all-in-onetool that I really love for all
(17:37):
reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
But Go High.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Level gives you a lot of potential functionality.
It's very overwhelming for newclients.
There's a big learning curve.
Active Campaign is a competitor.
It is going to be, in myopinion.
I still use it for my business,even though we work in both
with our clients.
Activecampaign is a cleanerinterface, smaller learning
curve.
It's still the king withautomation and CRM.
(17:58):
It just is.
Hubspot's a great one.
Hubspot generally gets veryexpensive, so as people start
building-.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And they lock you in.
They kind of get you indifferent ways and they lock you
in and then you have to do itand I get into people.
I was HubSpot certified.
I get in and I'm like you'redoing an email newsletter once a
month and you're paying forcraziness, you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So HubSpot we lose about 10 clients a year to
HubSpot and they're generallymoving up to, you know,
significant revenue and they Ialmost feel like it's a badge of
honor Like people like no, nowI can afford this.
But so you've got thesedifferent tools out there.
Active campaign is not going tobe the tool you want.
Don't forget about MailChimp.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Mailchimp is the one you want to start with right,
like I don't.
I've never really used Aweber,but MailChimp I think is great
and you can actually set upmultiple accounts in there and
it's a it's an easy to use, fasttool, like I.
Like I said, we use activecampaign cause cause I like kind
of building out the workflow alittle bit and the messaging and
(18:57):
the lead scoring, but I meanyou can get started with
MailChimp in a day and the keyhere is use something.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Use something.
I started with MailChimp yearsand years ago as well, but use
something.
Build a list with a purpose,right?
Nobody cares about yournewsletter.
Nobody cares about your whitepaper or your ebook that
somebody on Fiverr made you,that they've made for 50 other
clients.
Create three videos with two orthree minutes of authentic
screen.
Share value and do somethingdifferent.
(19:26):
Do something your clientsactually care about in your own
style.
There's an idea for a leadmagnet.
Your lead magnets, or youroffer to get a name and email
address, should be worth acouple hundred bucks or more in
perceived value.
Otherwise, nobody cares.
But take advantage of email.
It's a great way to keep intouch with people, in addition
to getting them on your YouTubeor your podcast, whatever else
(19:47):
you got going on.
It doesn't require much effortto be effective.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople like well, I'll get that
done later.
Here's the way that I teachfunnels right.
You've got three pieces of afunnel.
The first piece is traffic.
You're getting attention onlineor offline, directing it to a
page online.
The second piece is the frontend.
It's the pages online.
The last piece is the back end.
(20:08):
Everybody wants to do the backend last.
It's really dumb.
You should do it first.
Have a plan.
What happens when people get toyour list?
Then worry about traffic.
Then do your front end.
You can use Facebook lead adforms, conditional logic, make a
very high intent and pushpeople directly into the back
end.
You can do it with high levelor active campaign.
You don't even need a websiteand you can still get qualified
(20:29):
people on your calendar in twoor three days from now and
people want to argue with mewhile I'm generating leads for
myself and my clients doing thatsame thing.
So it doesn't have to be hard.
The hardest part is aconversation you have with
yourself about why you can't doit.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
No for sure.
I mean, I can tell you that ifyou're even skeptical,
calendarly, which is kind of themarket leader right now for
calendars they send you a textmessage or even email if you
verify in to get people to makesure they show up for that
appointment.
If that is turned off, like, Ican see a depreciable amount of
(21:05):
people that show up to meetingsif they're not reminded about it
.
So, even if there's anautomation, that's that simple
to say, hey, you've alreadyagreed to this meeting.
Like, please come to it.
Like the, the show up rates areso much higher, so email has so
many uses and it's like so, sopowerful.
Like, if you're not doing itright, and if you don't, if
(21:26):
you're not generating an emaillist, that's the one thing that
is your asset, right, that thatthat you have, like, certainly
your website.
But to, to, to reach out topeople, to interact with them,
to communicate with them, even.
Um, you know, I need to take myown advice for this podcast,
cause I have a lot of listenersthat I don't know who they are
and I need to have adownloadable, and there I'm
really kind of shifting fromworking in the business to uh,
(21:50):
kind of uh, doing more of, uh,the the of the teaching and
stuff like that getting outthere on social media.
Let's talk about that.
So how important like.
So, email is like backbone,right, and you got a website and
you got to email to get peopleto that website.
It's a high converting website,you know.
Okay, it's showing up with SEOin, you know, for the different
(22:11):
keywords, so people areorganically finding you.
So you have a little bit of afunnel going.
Okay, where do you see paid adsfitting in?
Because I think paid ads Istarted in paid ads.
I think paid ads is fantastic,like I think it adds, it's a
compounding kind of effect andso kind of okay, a lot of people
are running advertising Almostanybody I talked to.
(22:31):
They're running a bunch ofadvertisers 're spending way too
much money, I think, on onechannel advertising and I'm like
, spread this thing around.
Let's like, let's hit somemultiple channels here.
Um, is is typically what Iadvise.
I mean, how, how do you seethat?
Like, when someone comes to you, what are the issues that
they're dealing with?
And then like, what are yourecommending to them?
And then how do you um paid adsto the mix?
(22:55):
I would just kind of hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean it depends what niche they're in.
I mean we work with a lot ofcapital raisers for real estate,
but high ticket serviceproviders are really our broader
niche.
Typically, when people arelooking for more leads, they're
just relying on referrals.
They don't have a whole lotgoing on.
They might be doing someorganic posting to LinkedIn, but
nothing's really happened fromit.
So if they have a budget,facebook ads as a supplement to
(23:20):
what they're already doing isgenerally where I go first.
It's the quickest way to startshowing them some life, some
blood in their business.
Then, obviously, getting thatnurture set up.
What happens after the call issuper important as well, because
not everybody's going to investor buy on the first call.
Most won't unless you have somereally high pressure sales
tactics, which we don't.
So that's really importantDoing something.
(23:43):
I think guesting on podcasts forme has always been more
valuable than hosting my ownshow.
Your show is really successful.
You've been doing it a longtime.
You probably have a differentexperience, but I love getting
on as a guest.
I've been on I don't know 110,115 podcasts now and it's great
getting in front of newaudiences.
It's fun.
It's a good use of your time.
I like YouTube.
I like getting in front of thecamera and the mic, getting on
(24:04):
stage.
So YouTube's a platform that Ilike to create and totally
unplug.
So I think getting yourself onvideo is huge and a lot of
people don't like it.
But face-to-face is best, butit's not scalable.
Right, it's not scalable, it'sexpensive, it's inconvenient.
But getting on video is hugebecause people can figure out
(24:25):
very quickly within a fewseconds of watching you speak is
this person full of shit or dothey seem like they're kind of
authentic?
They figure out and they make alot of decisions quickly.
So it really can shorten thatno like and trust thing.
So doing stuff with videosGreat, I really like it.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, so to speak out to videos, I mean this is, I
think, a golden error for forvideos, since, like all the live
days, like when everything wasgoing live, was like awesome,
and then now, now, if you're,you know, if you're a business
like, you're not going to getany visibility unless you pay to
play, which I understand that,and I think that there's value
in kind of giving the searchengines or the different social
media platforms a little bit ofmoney to kind of warm up to you,
(25:03):
and it makes a lot of sense todo that.
But I can tell you right now,posting on TikTok, if it stays
around like it's back and forth,I don't know YouTube Shorts and
Instagram is where it's at toget organic reach.
You can set up like a mini chatwhere you have like a
downloadable text me this, sendyou that.
Now you've got the emailaddress right, offer organic
(25:26):
traffic right and you've giventhem some value.
And then you can continue thatconversation, because a lot of
people are like well, I don'thave the right lead magnet.
Continue that conversationbecause a lot of people are like
, well, I don't have the rightlead magnet to your point, if
you get the right video of justyou answering a problem of like
hey, here are the three thingsthat I do.
That do whatever, and you canspeak to it and your authority
on it.
You put that together with thecall to action.
(25:48):
You can put that on yourwebsite.
It will convert.
You can put that on anewsletter.
You can put that on socialmedia.
You can turn that into a paidad.
So, like, everybody has access,now that Zoom is a thing since
COVID, right, or whatever,whatever you're using Google
Meets, whatever it is.
You know Microsoft, I'm sorry.
So there's a lot of problems,but and my mom worked there so I
(26:08):
can say that but I would tellyou that you can get on video
and you can record video.
There's no excuse to be able todo it.
Like you said, you're just inyour own way, figure it out,
what you have value in You're.
You know, know, like and trust.
They pick up so much from youby what you say.
Right, there's so many on, youknow, on things that are not in
(26:30):
the words, right, so there'sthings that are not in the words
, especially text.
Right, things that are not inthe words.
Right, so there's things thatare not in the words, especially
text.
Right, you get text confusionall the time of what's going on.
But if you're an authority,you're an expert, right, and
you're trustworthy.
That's all you need tocommunicate in.
Whatever it is that you'reoffering, put that out there and
put a couple of videos.
(26:50):
The algorithm is going to tellyou if it's good or not, and
then you can pick that up andturn that into an ad.
But, like, you could do thisall in a day and you could start
generating a list.
But I think that, even goingback to the beginning, do it now
.
Do it now like to the beginningof it.
You just gotta, you gotta takeaction.
And, and I think, um, one of thethings that I would love for
(27:11):
you to speak on and we weretalking about this in the
pre-interview is how do youfigure out who to trust?
Right, because everybody andtheir dog can hang a shingle out
and say you know, I actuallywrote so this book.
I'm meeting with a client likeafter this, but I wrote this
book a couple years ago when Ikept seeing like 15-year-old
(27:32):
Instagram, uh, saying they'regoing to help me grow my
business, and I was just like um, and for anybody that listens,
it's called um, how to transformyourself into an authoritative
brand and attract your uh, idealcustomers, build your brand
mania.
So that's, that's a book Iwrote about five years ago.
But I literally wrote this bookexplaining my journey and like
(27:53):
how to do it.
Um, so I say I like, just likeyou, I drank my own kool-aid,
but like you're kids, I like howcan you prove to me that you do
it if you're 15?
Like, how are you a, a businessconsultant?
Like it's just good and like itwas just it was it was too much
and so that that that kind ofperpetuates is okay.
(28:14):
How do you do email marketingright?
It's not like accounting, youknow what I mean.
Like it's kind of a little bitof an art and there's so many
people out there that say theydo it and look, I call it
kissing frogs.
Honestly is I've been doingthis long enough.
I have so many different peopleI've used agencies, consultants
, people that I've known, hired,done partnerships with, like I
kind of have a sense of like whoto use or where to go, but for
(28:38):
somebody that's starting out,it's like I'm running this
business and I need somebody toemail marketing.
Like I can go 50,000 places andget a hundred thousand names of
people that do this.
I mean, I can tell you there'slike I don't know how many.
I think there's like 1800something agencies in Houston
Like okay, how do I know whichones are good?
Like I don't know any of thesepeople, right?
So, like, when you're lookingat email marketing, maybe what
(28:58):
are some questions you can askthem or what are some things you
can look for.
Maybe, like I know the badgesand the certifications are super
helpful as a starting point.
But like, how would youevaluate an email marketing
person if?
If you were trying to hiresomebody today?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's a great question.
I mean, like you said,unfortunately age has a piece to
it.
You know, if you're living athome, I don't really want to
hear your life lessons becauseyou've never got out of the
world on your own.
So, finding somebody that'sbeen doing it for a little while
, but getting them on a videocall, get them on a Zoom call,
have a conversation and if theyoversell themselves with, the
(29:33):
results are probably full ofshit.
Honestly, we've worked withclose to 700 people in active
campaign in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I jump on a call with people.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's a lot, it's a lot.
I jump on a call with people, Ifigure out what they're doing,
what they're trying to do, andif it's not a good fit I want to
say, hey, you know, e-com's notreally our focus.
There's other people that focuson that.
It's not really us.
But let me give you a couple ofpointers to leave you better
than I found you while we're onhere, off you go.
So jumping on a zoom call withthem, uh, asking questions, kind
(30:04):
of seeing what they are.
When people want me to likeguarantee stuff, can you
guarantee leads in a week, wedon't play that game because if
you've been on Facebook oranything long enough, algorithms
change, the market changes.
I don't want to be tied to thatshit.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So, jason, I had a client or a potential client
that, um gosh, I'm venting tothe world here, but I, I, uh,
this was like a year ago, twoyears ago actually, and I took
them, got a verbal.
Um, they were like, oh, let'smeet at the steakhouse, we'll
get you a lunch.
And I was like, oh, I'll getyou lunch.
And then he invited a bunch ofpeople.
Okay, so then we did this lunchand um, and then, uh, he
(30:40):
ghosted me right, comes back ayear later.
Hey, like, actually, like wewant to use you, like we're
we'll talk to some other people,like actually you're the right
person.
And so they're like we're goingthrough that process.
And then then, then that wasthe next thing that they wanted
to do.
They were like, sorry, Itotally vented everybody,
apologies, but everybody hasthose bad clients, I guess.
But I, but you got to look forthose things, right, you got to
look for those red flags.
(31:00):
But they, they say so this waslike a $15,000 proposal.
And they were like, if youdon't get us first position for
SEO in like three months, likeare you going to give us all our
money back?
Like we want that guarantee?
And I was just like.
I was like I can't call Googleup and like guarantee that you
know, like I I'm going to do allthe right actions.
Like I think we can get to thetop three, but I can't guarantee
(31:23):
you the first position, andcertainly like that's not how
I'm structuring this agreementto give you a guarantee.
Now, certainly I can structurea guarantee to give you that
kind of agreement, but I'm goingto, I'm going to cherry pick
the keywords.
You know I'm going to chargeyou three times more than I need
to.
Like you know what I mean.
And then, like I can get youthere and and people pay for
expediality, right, like or Idon't even know that's the word
but people pay for guaranteesand people pay for speed and I
(31:47):
think that that's valuable tosome.
But, yeah, like I, I I'm sorry,I totally vented to everybody
but I was a little hurt by kindof what they were asking, right,
and and you, you, you reallygot to identify those potential
(32:08):
pitfalls early on, cause I waslike this, this client already
shown red flags Like we don't,we don't want to work with this
client.
And so, you know, I, I told him, I said you, you might want to
go with somebody different.
And then they, I won't even gointo even more what they're
asking for, but hopefully peoplecan understand, like the pain,
oh yeah, and if somebodylistening has never had that
pain, they haven't been doing itlong enough.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You'll find crazy clients, potential clients.
So that same guy you're talkingabout, I would say if you want
something to guarantee you thatgood luck with your search, it
isn't me have talking about.
I would say, if you wantsomething to guarantee you that
good luck with your search, itisn't me, have a good day.
I don't want anything to dowith this scenario because we're
just starting and this iscoming off crazy.
You're going to be a nightmareSix months down the road.
I'm going to hate my lifebecause of you.
I'm going to set you free andsend you on your way.
(32:49):
Brother, I have no problemtelling people that I might have
one of those conversationstoday to be honest with you.
So we'll see how it goes.
I'm a nice guy, but I'm notscared to tell you exactly what
I think, and especially if it'sanswering a question.
If you have a question, I'mgoing to give you an answer.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
So well, I think you know, see again, consulting and
giving people advice on on whatto do and how to stay out of the
ditch.
You know, I, I'm happy toprovide that, that direction,
and and I have lots of years ofexperience and lots of campaigns
to be able to say, hey, this iswhat I'm seeing going on and
(33:24):
this is what I really think youshould do, and and and so.
But I can tell you that the,the guarantee business is a
different model, like like okay,well, give me, give me a piece
of the revenue, right.
Like like what we got to getmore involved, but, out of the
gate, we need to step into thisthing, right.
And so there's a lot of thosekind of things that I think that
(33:46):
people, if I'm speaking to theagency owners out there now and
the freelancers, don't pick upthe wrong client Because, look,
I'm always going, I want to hitthis out of the park, I want to
get a good review out of this, Iwant this client to be my
client long-term, I want to getreferrals out of this, so, so I
know what my ideal client is,and if it's not, I try to tell
(34:12):
them that and I try to dissuadethem to say, hey, but they don't
have the budget to do it Right,and so the worst thing you can
do even if it's not a bad clientis take on a client that you
know that, whatever you're doing, they don't have enough
horsepower or firepower todeliver that Right.
(34:34):
So if you're a brand new productand you're doing cold email
marketing or whatever, um, likeyou got to have enough accounts
going, you got to have enoughemails, like and it's a numbers
game to to to a certain degree,but like if you're trying to
rank for a very difficultkeyword and you have big
competitors, hey, like you'renot going to get there on like a
shoe string budget.
So it's really about evaluatingI think for all the freelancers
(34:59):
and agencies out there theright client, because that
client is going to cost you aton of money, and that's how my
agency has been able to scale ismaking sure we're picking the
right clients.
And also that goes back all theway back to email marketing is
making sure the hook.
The hook is right, becauseyou're going to, you're going to
see in the leads what the baitis you're putting out like from
(35:22):
a fishing analogy, and if youtweak that, you can get exactly
what you're looking for in theright messaging solving the
right problem and hitting theright people Right.
I think that that it's you knowwhat.
Is it the right target at theright time with the right
message, or something like that.
Like really is.
I mean, tell me a little bitabout like sequencing, and then
(35:42):
we'll we'll start to kind ofwrap up here, getting close to
time.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah.
So I mean, I always tell peopleit's like any new relationship
in life you're going to talkmore, more often when you first
meet somebody.
And as time goes by by, it'snot necessary, like if my mom,
after me being alive for 43years now, she wants to talk
every day.
I'm gonna be like mom aboutonce a week.
Every day is kind of a lot.
I don't have much to say.
I work at home.
It's not that much going on.
But if a new neighbor moves innext door, at first we're going
(36:09):
to talk often.
You get to know each other.
So it's kind of the same waywith your sequencing.
Uh, you don't want to beoverwhelming, like if I get on
your list, you contact me everyday.
I'm not going to be there long,but that's just my personality.
So, um, you definitely want totake care of the new
relationships and making thosetouch points.
Uh, something I was going to sayjust with, like email structure
, what I use.
I love playing the curiosity.
(36:30):
It's one of my favorite thingsto do with subject lines and
even the beginning of emails.
But, um, subject lines and eventhe beginning of emails, but
curiosity to get it open, littlehook at the beginning, little
storytelling about our real painor our real success or whatever
one actionable question orthing, and then some kind of a
call to action.
I pretty much do that in everynewsletter and it's very
conversational.
(36:50):
If you read my emails theywould say, man, it sounds
exactly like Jason.
Because it is right, I say Ispeak exactly how I write and
vice versa.
And it works well because it'seasy for me to create, it's easy
to consume and it's differentthan everybody else.
So uh, hope there's value there.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
No, I think that that's great.
I I think that many times I'vetalked to people or message
people, and then I've spoken tothem or I've met them in person,
Right and, and they'redifferent, Right and, and that's
so wild, and and you wouldthink, you would think that
across all mediums, you, you,you want to be the same person
and be and communicate that sameway.
(37:29):
I've started to do a lot ofemails where I'm just talking,
right, so, so I'm not typinganymore, I'm just talking, and
then I'll grammar check it orwhatever, and just very
conversational.
You know there's a formula7-11-4 that was put out by a
zero moment of a true study byGoogle that said seven hours of
(37:52):
content.
They got to consume seven hours, whether it's talking to you
live or checking out your stuffor whatever, reading your emails
.
And you know they see yourmessage 11 times and they need
to see it on four differentchannels.
And, uh, if you follow thatformula, you're going to, you're
going to and you're targetingthe right people.
Good things are going to happen,Like I.
I just I don't think there'sany any other way, way around it
(38:12):
.
But, man, if they just know whoyou are, over over that, quote,
unquote, seven hours.
They're going to know I cantrust you and they're going to
decide whether to do this withyou.
Like you're, you're like astraight up, like you know, no,
no, like right, Get right to thepoint.
Kind of a no nonsense kind ofguy, People are going to listen
to this and go.
Man, that's what I want, that'swho I want to work with, Right.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I describe my style as unapologetically authentic.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I like it.
I like it.
Well, hey, we're I.
I want to make sure people knowhow to get in touch with you.
Where are you hanging out?
What are you doing?
I know you got an emailnewsletter.
People have inscribed true,kind of tell, tell, tell
everybody your info.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yep, so company is intentionally inspirationalcom,
so that is also the website youcan go to If you really want to
see Jason unplugged more of this, but even a bit more hardcore.
Our YouTube channel.
We have a playlist called smoke, flow and grow and it's turned
into me reviewing a lot ofcigars and hanging out by my
pool and talking a little bitabout business, but it's a.
(39:12):
It's a great place to to getmore of a feel for me, unplugged
and, yeah, intentionallyinspirationalcom.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Love it.
Jason, thank you so much forcoming on.
So, everybody, if you're tryingto grow your business with the
largest, most powerful tool onthe planet the internet, reach
out to EWR digital for morerevenue in your business.
Also, check out EWR digitalcom,because most people that listen
to podcasts I see in theaudience set so they know about
the podcast but they don't knowabout business, and vice versa.
(39:41):
Um, so, please, just share thatwith somebody you know if
you've got value.
Um, you know, check out MatthewBertramcom.
Uh, I am growing, uh like acoaching business and kind of I
just figure on, on, on on Google.
So that was, that was prettycool and until the next time,
guys, bye-bye for now.
Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of
the Unknown Secrets of InternetMarketing.
For any of you that arewatching, I'm at the office.
My internet just went downright before this, so I'm a
little disheveled, but I have agreat podcast guest for you
today.
Really, one of the things thatI've been talking about and
we've been working on internallyis email marketing and how
important newsletters are.
(00:36):
I have news for you.
At Brighton, SEO Ma spokeemails still convert the best,
and so I thought it'd be greatto bring on a guest that
specializes in okay, yes, gohigh levels, hot right now, but
go high level also activecampaign.
That's actually what we useinternally.
(00:57):
Email marketing is not dead andI can tell you let's get into a
little bit more in this podcast.
Just to let you know, coachingcourse is live at
MatthewBertramcom.
Go check it out.
If you get any value from thispodcast, please share, like,
follow.
Whatever.
We appreciate the engagement.
I am stepping out of the agencyas much as I can every month
(01:23):
because we have a team that cando it all, so I will be doing
more trainings and more content,so hit me up.
I want to now introduce JasonWright.
Jason, how are you doing,brother?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm doing great man.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, so Jason's with internationallyinspirely
inspirelycom.
They do.
They focus on automatedmarketing, they focus on paid
ads.
You know just really what wewere talking about in the kind
of pre-interview and we can justpick up our conversation, jason
of like there's a lot of peopleout there that claim to be
(02:01):
internet marketing experts and Ican tell you that one of the
biggest challenges we deal withwhen we're interacting with new
clients they've been burned bysomebody in the past, right, so
they have this baggage thatthey're coming with and they're
like, hey, either it didn't workfor me or, man, like I just
can't trust anybody.
How do I find the right personto trust?
And so you know, I just wantedto kind of start it off there
(02:22):
what are your thoughts aroundkind of like email automation in
general?
Let's just kind of go thereLike has it died?
And then we can get into maybehow to select the right vendor
and we can maybe talk about somecase studies and some of the
things that you've seen reallyleverage email marketing to
convert clients and customers.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I appreciate the intro.
So when I started my company 10years ago, people were saying
email was dead then.
So I think it's an excusepeople throw out there so it
makes them feel better about notdoing anything with it.
But it's certainly not dead.
It works really well.
I've generated millions ofdollars online with email
marketing so it definitely works.
And I think one of the biggestproblems with it is people build
(03:06):
up this idea in their head ofwhat it needs to be.
And the number one thing thatpeople focus on too much is the
design.
The design doesn't matter atall.
No one's going to remember whatit looked like an hour from the
time they read it.
And the reason why is all of usget inundated with outbound all
day, every day and every pieceof our life.
So they will remember theyheard from you.
(03:27):
They're not gonna remember whatpictures or what colors you use
.
Nobody cares so, and that's notmeant to be negative.
It's just meant to say hey,stop making up excuses for not
doing it, just do it.
It's not hard, it doesn'trequire anything crazy.
So one thing that has changedwith email marketing is DNS
records used to be the exception.
Now it's definitely the rule.
So email deliverability hasbecome more challenging, but
(03:51):
it's not challenging.
Right, there's things you needto do with some of your DNS
records.
All the big providers tell youwhat to do and if you do that
you'll hit more inboxes and ifyou don't, you shouldn't even
waste your time trying to emailmarket, because it's just not
going to work out well, butemail marketing is, you know,
it's kind of the foundation ofwhat we build our business on.
(04:12):
I also really like textmarketing.
I think text marketing iseffective, you get higher
engagement.
Simple, but with all thesethings, man, you're basically
starting new conversations andkeeping them going Same thing we
do in real life.
So that is the simplest waythat I can break it down.
And really you're emailing fortwo reasons from a really high
(04:35):
level.
One, you're emailing to getpeople on a call and I'm just
focused on high-ticket servicebusinesses, so I think about my
own business but you're workingto get people on a call.
Then, after the call, if theydon't buy the thing that you
offered, you're emailing themagain to nurture them and keep
the conversation going.
So if you think about that inyour business, you can see, by
(04:56):
removing that, you're reallymissing out on a lot of
opportunities, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So I want to circle back to something you said
previously that I really want tokey in on.
So I was actually on a RussellBrunson ClickFunnels conference,
right, and they brought on likeNapoleon Hill or not.
They didn't bring him on, butthey showed some videos of him
talking about it and one of hispartners Napoleon Hill's
(05:22):
partners made so much money frommindset and he kept saying do
it now, do it now.
And everybody that worked forhim I could forget who it was,
but it was like he said ahundred times a day do it now.
And he made everybody thatworked for him say do it now.
And then also there's a bookwritten by uh I just got back
from podfest um, uh called startugly, right, and so you just
(05:44):
got to get started, do something, get that initial inertia
moving and then you can perfectit.
And even with podcasting, likepeople fall off before seven
podcasts, right, like you justgot to start that process and
get moving on that.
And I think email is so critical.
Email is just like an addressthat someone has like for, like
(06:06):
mailers, that they don't changeemails for like eight years
typically.
And if the deliverability isgood and it doesn't go to like
spam, you're going to get rightin front of that person that
they're checking every day.
Now text, I think you know 99%like open rate on top of it,
even if it's spam like, why areyou not doing that of it?
(06:27):
Even if it's spam like, why areyou not doing that?
And I, I, I was in a trainingyears ago and it said what is
the relationship you want tohave with your customer, right,
so is it quarterly?
Like, oh, I know who thatperson is Like.
If you send stuff quarterly,you'll probably get put on a
spam list more than if you sendstuff daily, cause they don't
even know who you are, right,like, so it's based on that
relationship.
So, like you know, how close doyou want to be to them?
You know, really, weekly, Ithink, is really good, monthly
(06:50):
is okay.
You know daily if you're tryingto build that really close
rapport with them, like a bestfriend or a family member, like
you got to think about all thatand you got to think about a lot
of different things of howmaybe let's talk about that how
would you set up like a standardcampaign for you know, I don't
know e-commerce business andthen we'll say like a service
business or something like that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's different pieces of it, right.
So for e-com, a lot of whenpeople are coming in is to get
the 15% off right To hear aboutthe sales or if it's a, it's a
shopping cart abandonment typething.
But the newsletters I like oncea week.
If you're emailing me more thanonce a week I don't want to be
your friend.
That's too much right.
But once a month I'm going toforget about you.
So I think the magic is and itdepends on your personality.
(07:32):
If you're authentically likeevery day feels good, do it.
Once a month is not enough.
But somewhere between two tofour times a month is a good
range.
And if you can do twice a monthfor six months, then step it up
, because some people reallystruggle with that commitment.
They make it this really bigdeal and it's not so.
The service-based business iskind of what I said before right
(07:54):
, they could come in through alead magnet or come in through a
program and get some value, butgetting them on that newsletter
list where they can kind of seewhat you're doing, and I urge
this to people all the time.
And I urge this to people allthe time and I'm not giving any
advice here or anywhere everthat I don't follow myself.
It's all based on actualexperience and never theory.
But be yourself, man.
(08:14):
Put your wins and, moreimportantly, your losses out
there, because people don't wantto connect with your brand,
they want to connect withMatthew, they want to connect
with Jason.
So put yourself out there.
Some of the best open rates youwill get on emails are emails
like.
You're not going to believethis massive failure I had.
People are sick man.
They love that stuff.
So why do you think reality TVis so popular?
(08:36):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
No, I just totally agree with you.
I think that really you've gotto think about what are you
trying to do with email?
You're trying to connect withsomebody one-to-one.
And if you're always puttingyour best foot forward, it's
like everybody can look good inan interview.
You know what I mean.
People want to know the realyou.
They want that authentic feel.
And also, if you're notpassionate about something or
(09:00):
you're doing something because,oh, I need to do this, because X
, y, z, but it's not inside you,you're not going to keep it up.
So, speaking to the once a day,like there's, there's things
ritualistically like that, likecertain kinds of news that I
look at, I could easily turnthat into a newsletter and just
share what I'm finding with it.
Right, like, so it's not.
(09:20):
It's not that hard to findsomething If you're passionate
about it, that you have a why toconnect with somebody on how to
do it.
And you know, I think minimumyou have to do it once a month.
Because if you do, if you don'tdo it once a month and you just
start sending emails later,that whole list is dead, I think
, because you're going to get somuch spam off it and and you're
(09:40):
really looking for engagement,right, so you want to constantly
stay in front of them.
Even if they don't even readthe email, they're still seeing
it.
Like, and I would even say likeon LinkedIn.
Linkedin's got a lot better andit's a LinkedIn's job to filter
out all that spam, becausemarketers, of course, ruin
everything.
But I'm going to tell you, evenif you sent that spam email in
LinkedIn, if those people arelocking into LinkedIn and
(10:02):
they're posting, they're goingto see your name, they're going
to see what you do and they'regoing to see that headline.
And when I, when I do emailmarketing which was, it's like
an add on service for for otherthings that we do Um, I, you
know, if I don't, if I don'tknow what the right thing to do
is, I just use the wholealphabet and I test.
You know, I'll set it up, orI'll set up like 26 different
(10:24):
titles and figure out what arepeople responding to.
And then that's the great magicabout internet marketing is you
can continue to optimize basedupon data.
You don't have to just guesslike in branding or traditional
marketing.
So I think it's super powerful.
And the email analytics I meanthat, that should that, and SEO.
(10:45):
In my opinion, that and SEO arekind of like the core of your
business, because peoplecontinuously organically find
you at all funnels of thechannel.
And then email should work fromnot just like cold email, but
nurture existing clients,keeping people up to date of
what's going on.
Like email fits in everywhere,just like SEO does.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
So you said something earlier in the show I wanted to
touch on.
So you really were talkingabout just get started with
where you are.
So a phrase we use in ourbusiness and that I live by is
good enough to get it out there.
Right, just before this podcast, I launched a new Facebook ad.
It goes into active campaignand all that exists there is a
(11:24):
notification.
There's no email.
I'll get to it later today.
Right, I didn't have time tofinish it, but at least that
damn ad is out there andapproved and I'll get the rest
of it built.
I can't tell you the amount ofautomations where people have
hit an email and below it it'sblank.
And I know I have a three-daywait and I haven't even finished
it yet because so many peoplein business this is all parts of
business and in life right, yougot me up in this soapbox now.
(11:47):
So now you got to hear it theywant to wait till things are
perfect.
No one cares if it's perfectand they're not going to know if
it's perfect or not, becausethose are your rules you're
assigning to it, not somebodyelse's.
So if it's perfect and on theshelf, it doesn't have any value
.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's got to be in the game.
So so to even pile on moreright, a social media post on
average has a four hour lifespan.
Okay and like, even if you startlooking at, like all kinds of
like really interesting data,people are more concerned if you
meet somebody with how theyacted.
In that scenario, there's like20% memory in anything that you
even did.
So, unless you did somethingthat hit the um, you know really
(12:35):
bad, really good, you blendinto, like, you know you just,
you just blend into thebackground.
Obscurity is the word I waslooking for, but what I can tell
you is you want to make surewhatever your message is, boom,
you hit that message and thenall all that else that matters
is just that you're availableand you're following up and
you're, you're there, but peoplejust, yeah, I think that
(12:58):
there's uh, people freeze anddon't execute.
Um, now certainly you run an ador something like that and, uh,
the link doesn't work, like,you want to double check and
make sure, uh, but, but some ofthese platforms will protect you
in that.
But email marketing that email,you know, is going to be seen
by people for three seconds orseven seconds and then they're
probably not going to see itagain.
(13:19):
And so you know, would yourather create that touch point
or not?
Right, like, and so you, yougot to take massive action to uh
change like your trajectory aswell as like where you're
currently at.
Like, and that's what I think alot of people don't understand,
is how much action has to betaken to move the needle because
(13:41):
there's so much noise.
There's something like I don'teven know.
I at one point it was like 800messages a day, but it's gotta
be double that or triple thatnow that we get inundated with
it.
So how do you cut through theclutter?
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Inundated with it.
So how do you cut through?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
the clutter.
Well, I think you cut throughwith consistency.
Yeah, that's the key rightthere.
It's just like the weight room.
If you go to the weight roomand have the best workout of
your life once a month, you'renever going to see any change.
It's not going to happen Now.
If you do a C plus workout fivedays a week, you're going to
see a difference in three months, big time.
So it's not my opinion,important than anything.
What's?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
the secret to success .
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Be consistent with something right.
Well, I'm not seeing results.
Do it longer or try somethingdifferent, but nothing good
comes overnight.
Man, the hardest lesson.
I talked to somebody the otherday about this hardest lesson
I've had to learn as anentrepreneur.
I was not a patient person whenI started this business 10
years ago, but what I found isthe timeline is unknown.
Right For things to happenclick, change, blow up, whatever
(14:38):
.
I don't know what it's going tobe, so you keep going until it
happens Like I'm not a I'm goingto try this and go back to
corporate America kind of guy.
I'm not that guy at all.
Last year was actually a very,maybe the hardest year I've ever
had in business Very hard.
My wife at one point was likedo you think you need to go get
a job?
And I said I will never get ajob that pays what I make now.
(14:59):
That's not an option.
Never say that to me again.
Get out of my face.
We're not doing that Right andI'm wired that way.
Most people aren't, but I'mwired that way.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But let's find a bad offer.
And if you, if you want a 10 toX better return on, like,
create a 10 X better offer,right, and I like the
consistency of the military justreally helps you.
Or having that routine, whetherit's working out or whatever,
getting up to do those things,and you're right.
Like you, you work out forforever.
You don't know when the musclesare going to start showing up,
you don't know when the six packis going to be there, like you
(15:57):
just keep going because you knowyou're doing the right thing
and you're moving in the rightdirection, and certainly some
actions better than no action,because you're definitely going
to be moving towards that goalor away from it.
Now I want to switch gears.
We were talking in thepre-interview about active
campaign, go high level.
So a lot of people that listen,if they're not in digital
marketing, a lot of people thatlisten are in digital marketing.
(16:19):
But there's a lot of kind ofpeople that are taking over
their parents' business or theybought in a business or they're
trying to digitally transformtheir company from the
traditional way to generateleads.
And you got HubSpot advertisingreally strongly.
You got active campaign outthere, you got go high levelaign
out there.
You got GoHighLevel.
Gohighlevel seems to be the hotthing out there.
I remember when GoHighLevellaunched there was no even
(16:41):
manual how to use it.
There was no customer support.
It was really tough, buteverybody that knew how to use
it was just absolutely ravingabout it.
Now I think we've come a longway since then, but maybe you
could kind of set the table asfar as, like I mean infusion
soft.
So on the click funnelsconference they were talking
about confusion soft thatthey're just kind of like
(17:03):
knocking on it, like so like setthe table for like the
different um email marketingtools and maybe what, how you
view what they might be usedbest for, because everybody's
positioned a little differently.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, great, great question.
So go high level.
It's everything ClickFunnelswanted to be initially.
I'm just a straight shooter, sogo high level.
The Calendly feature looksexactly like Calendly they
ripped it off.
The automation builders, likeActiveCampaign, looks a little
older but it's more powerful.
It's an attempt to be anall-in-one tool.
I've never seen an all-in-onetool that I really love for all
(17:37):
reasons.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
But Go High.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Level gives you a lot of potential functionality.
It's very overwhelming for newclients.
There's a big learning curve.
Active Campaign is a competitor.
It is going to be, in myopinion.
I still use it for my business,even though we work in both
with our clients.
Activecampaign is a cleanerinterface, smaller learning
curve.
It's still the king withautomation and CRM.
(17:58):
It just is.
Hubspot's a great one.
Hubspot generally gets veryexpensive, so as people start
building-.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And they lock you in.
They kind of get you indifferent ways and they lock you
in and then you have to do itand I get into people.
I was HubSpot certified.
I get in and I'm like you'redoing an email newsletter once a
month and you're paying forcraziness, you know, yep.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So HubSpot we lose about 10 clients a year to
HubSpot and they're generallymoving up to, you know,
significant revenue and they Ialmost feel like it's a badge of
honor Like people like no, nowI can afford this.
But so you've got thesedifferent tools out there.
Active campaign is not going tobe the tool you want.
Don't forget about MailChimp.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Mailchimp is the one you want to start with right,
like I don't.
I've never really used Aweber,but MailChimp I think is great
and you can actually set upmultiple accounts in there and
it's a it's an easy to use, fasttool, like I.
Like I said, we use activecampaign cause cause I like kind
of building out the workflow alittle bit and the messaging and
(18:57):
the lead scoring, but I meanyou can get started with
MailChimp in a day and the keyhere is use something.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Use something.
I started with MailChimp yearsand years ago as well, but use
something.
Build a list with a purpose,right?
Nobody cares about yournewsletter.
Nobody cares about your whitepaper or your ebook that
somebody on Fiverr made you,that they've made for 50 other
clients.
Create three videos with two orthree minutes of authentic
screen.
Share value and do somethingdifferent.
(19:26):
Do something your clientsactually care about in your own
style.
There's an idea for a leadmagnet.
Your lead magnets, or youroffer to get a name and email
address, should be worth acouple hundred bucks or more in
perceived value.
Otherwise, nobody cares.
But take advantage of email.
It's a great way to keep intouch with people, in addition
to getting them on your YouTubeor your podcast, whatever else
(19:47):
you got going on.
It doesn't require much effortto be effective.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople like well, I'll get that
done later.
Here's the way that I teachfunnels right.
You've got three pieces of afunnel.
The first piece is traffic.
You're getting attention onlineor offline, directing it to a
page online.
The second piece is the frontend.
It's the pages online.
The last piece is the back end.
(20:08):
Everybody wants to do the backend last.
It's really dumb.
You should do it first.
Have a plan.
What happens when people get toyour list?
Then worry about traffic.
Then do your front end.
You can use Facebook lead adforms, conditional logic, make a
very high intent and pushpeople directly into the back
end.
You can do it with high levelor active campaign.
You don't even need a websiteand you can still get qualified
(20:29):
people on your calendar in twoor three days from now and
people want to argue with mewhile I'm generating leads for
myself and my clients doing thatsame thing.
So it doesn't have to be hard.
The hardest part is aconversation you have with
yourself about why you can't doit.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
No for sure.
I mean, I can tell you that ifyou're even skeptical,
calendarly, which is kind of themarket leader right now for
calendars they send you a textmessage or even email if you
verify in to get people to makesure they show up for that
appointment.
If that is turned off, like, Ican see a depreciable amount of
(21:05):
people that show up to meetingsif they're not reminded about it
.
So, even if there's anautomation, that's that simple
to say, hey, you've alreadyagreed to this meeting.
Like, please come to it.
Like the, the show up rates areso much higher, so email has so
many uses and it's like so, sopowerful.
Like, if you're not doing itright, and if you don't, if
(21:26):
you're not generating an emaillist, that's the one thing that
is your asset, right, that thatthat you have, like, certainly
your website.
But to, to, to reach out topeople, to interact with them,
to communicate with them, even.
Um, you know, I need to take myown advice for this podcast,
cause I have a lot of listenersthat I don't know who they are
and I need to have adownloadable, and there I'm
really kind of shifting fromworking in the business to uh,
(21:50):
kind of uh, doing more of, uh,the the of the teaching and
stuff like that getting outthere on social media.
Let's talk about that.
So how important like.
So, email is like backbone,right, and you got a website and
you got to email to get peopleto that website.
It's a high converting website,you know.
Okay, it's showing up with SEOin, you know, for the different
(22:11):
keywords, so people areorganically finding you.
So you have a little bit of afunnel going.
Okay, where do you see paid adsfitting in?
Because I think paid ads Istarted in paid ads.
I think paid ads is fantastic,like I think it adds, it's a
compounding kind of effect andso kind of okay, a lot of people
are running advertising Almostanybody I talked to.
(22:31):
They're running a bunch ofadvertisers 're spending way too
much money, I think, on onechannel advertising and I'm like
, spread this thing around.
Let's like, let's hit somemultiple channels here.
Um, is is typically what Iadvise.
I mean, how, how do you seethat?
Like, when someone comes to you, what are the issues that
they're dealing with?
And then like, what are yourecommending to them?
And then how do you um paid adsto the mix?
(22:55):
I would just kind of hear yourthoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean it depends what niche they're in.
I mean we work with a lot ofcapital raisers for real estate,
but high ticket serviceproviders are really our broader
niche.
Typically, when people arelooking for more leads, they're
just relying on referrals.
They don't have a whole lotgoing on.
They might be doing someorganic posting to LinkedIn, but
nothing's really happened fromit.
So if they have a budget,facebook ads as a supplement to
(23:20):
what they're already doing isgenerally where I go first.
It's the quickest way to startshowing them some life, some
blood in their business.
Then, obviously, getting thatnurture set up.
What happens after the call issuper important as well, because
not everybody's going to investor buy on the first call.
Most won't unless you have somereally high pressure sales
tactics, which we don't.
So that's really importantDoing something.
(23:43):
I think guesting on podcasts forme has always been more
valuable than hosting my ownshow.
Your show is really successful.
You've been doing it a longtime.
You probably have a differentexperience, but I love getting
on as a guest.
I've been on I don't know 110,115 podcasts now and it's great
getting in front of newaudiences.
It's fun.
It's a good use of your time.
I like YouTube.
I like getting in front of thecamera and the mic, getting on
(24:04):
stage.
So YouTube's a platform that Ilike to create and totally
unplug.
So I think getting yourself onvideo is huge and a lot of
people don't like it.
But face-to-face is best, butit's not scalable.
Right, it's not scalable, it'sexpensive, it's inconvenient.
But getting on video is hugebecause people can figure out
(24:25):
very quickly within a fewseconds of watching you speak is
this person full of shit or dothey seem like they're kind of
authentic?
They figure out and they make alot of decisions quickly.
So it really can shorten thatno like and trust thing.
So doing stuff with videosGreat, I really like it.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, so to speak out to videos, I mean this is, I
think, a golden error for forvideos, since, like all the live
days, like when everything wasgoing live, was like awesome,
and then now, now, if you're,you know, if you're a business
like, you're not going to getany visibility unless you pay to
play, which I understand that,and I think that there's value
in kind of giving the searchengines or the different social
media platforms a little bit ofmoney to kind of warm up to you,
(25:03):
and it makes a lot of sense todo that.
But I can tell you right now,posting on TikTok, if it stays
around like it's back and forth,I don't know YouTube Shorts and
Instagram is where it's at toget organic reach.
You can set up like a mini chatwhere you have like a
downloadable text me this, sendyou that.
Now you've got the emailaddress right, offer organic
(25:26):
traffic right and you've giventhem some value.
And then you can continue thatconversation, because a lot of
people are like well, I don'thave the right lead magnet.
Continue that conversationbecause a lot of people are like
, well, I don't have the rightlead magnet to your point, if
you get the right video of justyou answering a problem of like
hey, here are the three thingsthat I do.
That do whatever, and you canspeak to it and your authority
on it.
You put that together with thecall to action.
(25:48):
You can put that on yourwebsite.
It will convert.
You can put that on anewsletter.
You can put that on socialmedia.
You can turn that into a paidad.
So, like, everybody has access,now that Zoom is a thing since
COVID, right, or whatever,whatever you're using Google
Meets, whatever it is.
You know Microsoft, I'm sorry.
So there's a lot of problems,but and my mom worked there so I
(26:08):
can say that but I would tellyou that you can get on video
and you can record video.
There's no excuse to be able todo it.
Like you said, you're just inyour own way, figure it out,
what you have value in You're.
You know, know, like and trust.
They pick up so much from youby what you say.
Right, there's so many on, youknow, on things that are not in
(26:30):
the words, right, so there'sthings that are not in the words
, especially text.
Right, things that are not inthe words.
Right, so there's things thatare not in the words, especially
text.
Right, you get text confusionall the time of what's going on.
But if you're an authority,you're an expert, right, and
you're trustworthy.
That's all you need tocommunicate in.
Whatever it is that you'reoffering, put that out there and
put a couple of videos.
(26:50):
The algorithm is going to tellyou if it's good or not, and
then you can pick that up andturn that into an ad.
But, like, you could do thisall in a day and you could start
generating a list.
But I think that, even goingback to the beginning, do it now
.
Do it now like to the beginningof it.
You just gotta, you gotta takeaction.
And, and I think, um, one of thethings that I would love for
(27:11):
you to speak on and we weretalking about this in the
pre-interview is how do youfigure out who to trust?
Right, because everybody andtheir dog can hang a shingle out
and say you know, I actuallywrote so this book.
I'm meeting with a client likeafter this, but I wrote this
book a couple years ago when Ikept seeing like 15-year-old
(27:32):
Instagram, uh, saying they'regoing to help me grow my
business, and I was just like um, and for anybody that listens,
it's called um, how to transformyourself into an authoritative
brand and attract your uh, idealcustomers, build your brand
mania.
So that's, that's a book Iwrote about five years ago.
But I literally wrote this bookexplaining my journey and like
(27:53):
how to do it.
Um, so I say I like, just likeyou, I drank my own kool-aid,
but like you're kids, I like howcan you prove to me that you do
it if you're 15?
Like, how are you a, a businessconsultant?
Like it's just good and like itwas just it was it was too much
and so that that that kind ofperpetuates is okay.
(28:14):
How do you do email marketingright?
It's not like accounting, youknow what I mean.
Like it's kind of a little bitof an art and there's so many
people out there that say theydo it and look, I call it
kissing frogs.
Honestly is I've been doingthis long enough.
I have so many different peopleI've used agencies, consultants
, people that I've known, hired,done partnerships with, like I
kind of have a sense of like whoto use or where to go, but for
(28:38):
somebody that's starting out,it's like I'm running this
business and I need somebody toemail marketing.
Like I can go 50,000 places andget a hundred thousand names of
people that do this.
I mean, I can tell you there'slike I don't know how many.
I think there's like 1800something agencies in Houston
Like okay, how do I know whichones are good?
Like I don't know any of thesepeople, right?
So, like, when you're lookingat email marketing, maybe what
(28:58):
are some questions you can askthem or what are some things you
can look for.
Maybe, like I know the badgesand the certifications are super
helpful as a starting point.
But like, how would youevaluate an email marketing
person if?
If you were trying to hiresomebody today?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's a great question.
I mean, like you said,unfortunately age has a piece to
it.
You know, if you're living athome, I don't really want to
hear your life lessons becauseyou've never got out of the
world on your own.
So, finding somebody that'sbeen doing it for a little while
, but getting them on a videocall, get them on a Zoom call,
have a conversation and if theyoversell themselves with, the
(29:33):
results are probably full ofshit.
Honestly, we've worked withclose to 700 people in active
campaign in the last 10 years.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I jump on a call with people.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's a lot, it's a lot.
I jump on a call with people, Ifigure out what they're doing,
what they're trying to do, andif it's not a good fit I want to
say, hey, you know, e-com's notreally our focus.
There's other people that focuson that.
It's not really us.
But let me give you a couple ofpointers to leave you better
than I found you while we're onhere, off you go.
So jumping on a zoom call withthem, uh, asking questions, kind
(30:04):
of seeing what they are.
When people want me to likeguarantee stuff, can you
guarantee leads in a week, wedon't play that game because if
you've been on Facebook oranything long enough, algorithms
change, the market changes.
I don't want to be tied to thatshit.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So, jason, I had a client or a potential client
that, um gosh, I'm venting tothe world here, but I, I, uh,
this was like a year ago, twoyears ago actually, and I took
them, got a verbal.
Um, they were like, oh, let'smeet at the steakhouse, we'll
get you a lunch.
And I was like, oh, I'll getyou lunch.
And then he invited a bunch ofpeople.
Okay, so then we did this lunchand um, and then, uh, he
(30:40):
ghosted me right, comes back ayear later.
Hey, like, actually, like wewant to use you, like we're
we'll talk to some other people,like actually you're the right
person.
And so they're like we're goingthrough that process.
And then then, then that wasthe next thing that they wanted
to do.
They were like, sorry, Itotally vented everybody,
apologies, but everybody hasthose bad clients, I guess.
But I, but you got to look forthose things, right, you got to
look for those red flags.
(31:00):
But they, they say so this waslike a $15,000 proposal.
And they were like, if youdon't get us first position for
SEO in like three months, likeare you going to give us all our
money back?
Like we want that guarantee?
And I was just like.
I was like I can't call Googleup and like guarantee that you
know, like I I'm going to do allthe right actions.
Like I think we can get to thetop three, but I can't guarantee
(31:23):
you the first position, andcertainly like that's not how
I'm structuring this agreementto give you a guarantee.
Now, certainly I can structurea guarantee to give you that
kind of agreement, but I'm goingto, I'm going to cherry pick
the keywords.
You know I'm going to chargeyou three times more than I need
to.
Like you know what I mean.
And then, like I can get youthere and and people pay for
expediality, right, like or Idon't even know that's the word
but people pay for guaranteesand people pay for speed and I
(31:47):
think that that's valuable tosome.
But, yeah, like I, I I'm sorry,I totally vented to everybody
but I was a little hurt by kindof what they were asking, right,
and and you, you, you reallygot to identify those potential
(32:08):
pitfalls early on, cause I waslike this, this client already
shown red flags Like we don't,we don't want to work with this
client.
And so, you know, I, I told him, I said you, you might want to
go with somebody different.
And then they, I won't even gointo even more what they're
asking for, but hopefully peoplecan understand, like the pain,
oh yeah, and if somebodylistening has never had that
pain, they haven't been doing itlong enough.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You'll find crazy clients, potential clients.
So that same guy you're talkingabout, I would say if you want
something to guarantee you thatgood luck with your search, it
isn't me have talking about.
I would say, if you wantsomething to guarantee you that
good luck with your search, itisn't me, have a good day.
I don't want anything to dowith this scenario because we're
just starting and this iscoming off crazy.
You're going to be a nightmareSix months down the road.
I'm going to hate my lifebecause of you.
I'm going to set you free andsend you on your way.
(32:49):
Brother, I have no problemtelling people that I might have
one of those conversationstoday to be honest with you.
So we'll see how it goes.
I'm a nice guy, but I'm notscared to tell you exactly what
I think, and especially if it'sanswering a question.
If you have a question, I'mgoing to give you an answer.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
So well, I think you know, see again, consulting and
giving people advice on on whatto do and how to stay out of the
ditch.
You know, I, I'm happy toprovide that, that direction,
and and I have lots of years ofexperience and lots of campaigns
to be able to say, hey, this iswhat I'm seeing going on and
(33:24):
this is what I really think youshould do, and and and so.
But I can tell you that the,the guarantee business is a
different model, like like okay,well, give me, give me a piece
of the revenue, right.
Like like what we got to getmore involved, but, out of the
gate, we need to step into thisthing, right.
And so there's a lot of thosekind of things that I think that
(33:46):
people, if I'm speaking to theagency owners out there now and
the freelancers, don't pick upthe wrong client Because, look,
I'm always going, I want to hitthis out of the park, I want to
get a good review out of this, Iwant this client to be my
client long-term, I want to getreferrals out of this, so, so I
know what my ideal client is,and if it's not, I try to tell
(34:12):
them that and I try to dissuadethem to say, hey, but they don't
have the budget to do it Right,and so the worst thing you can
do even if it's not a bad clientis take on a client that you
know that, whatever you're doing, they don't have enough
horsepower or firepower todeliver that Right.
(34:34):
So if you're a brand new productand you're doing cold email
marketing or whatever, um, likeyou got to have enough accounts
going, you got to have enoughemails, like and it's a numbers
game to to to a certain degree,but like if you're trying to
rank for a very difficultkeyword and you have big
competitors, hey, like you'renot going to get there on like a
shoe string budget.
So it's really about evaluatingI think for all the freelancers
(34:59):
and agencies out there theright client, because that
client is going to cost you aton of money, and that's how my
agency has been able to scale ismaking sure we're picking the
right clients.
And also that goes back all theway back to email marketing is
making sure the hook.
The hook is right, becauseyou're going to, you're going to
see in the leads what the baitis you're putting out like from
(35:22):
a fishing analogy, and if youtweak that, you can get exactly
what you're looking for in theright messaging solving the
right problem and hitting theright people Right.
I think that that it's you knowwhat.
Is it the right target at theright time with the right
message, or something like that.
Like really is.
I mean, tell me a little bitabout like sequencing, and then
(35:42):
we'll we'll start to kind ofwrap up here, getting close to
time.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah.
So I mean, I always tell peopleit's like any new relationship
in life you're going to talkmore, more often when you first
meet somebody.
And as time goes by by, it'snot necessary, like if my mom,
after me being alive for 43years now, she wants to talk
every day.
I'm gonna be like mom aboutonce a week.
Every day is kind of a lot.
I don't have much to say.
I work at home.
It's not that much going on.
But if a new neighbor moves innext door, at first we're going
(36:09):
to talk often.
You get to know each other.
So it's kind of the same waywith your sequencing.
Uh, you don't want to beoverwhelming, like if I get on
your list, you contact me everyday.
I'm not going to be there long,but that's just my personality.
So, um, you definitely want totake care of the new
relationships and making thosetouch points.
Uh, something I was going to sayjust with, like email structure
, what I use.
I love playing the curiosity.
(36:30):
It's one of my favorite thingsto do with subject lines and
even the beginning of emails.
But, um, subject lines and eventhe beginning of emails, but
curiosity to get it open, littlehook at the beginning, little
storytelling about our real painor our real success or whatever
one actionable question orthing, and then some kind of a
call to action.
I pretty much do that in everynewsletter and it's very
conversational.
(36:50):
If you read my emails theywould say, man, it sounds
exactly like Jason.
Because it is right, I say Ispeak exactly how I write and
vice versa.
And it works well because it'seasy for me to create, it's easy
to consume and it's differentthan everybody else.
So uh, hope there's value there.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
No, I think that that's great.
I I think that many times I'vetalked to people or message
people, and then I've spoken tothem or I've met them in person,
Right and, and they'redifferent, Right and, and that's
so wild, and and you wouldthink, you would think that
across all mediums, you, you,you want to be the same person
and be and communicate that sameway.
(37:29):
I've started to do a lot ofemails where I'm just talking,
right, so, so I'm not typinganymore, I'm just talking, and
then I'll grammar check it orwhatever, and just very
conversational.
You know there's a formula7-11-4 that was put out by a
zero moment of a true study byGoogle that said seven hours of
(37:52):
content.
They got to consume seven hours, whether it's talking to you
live or checking out your stuffor whatever, reading your emails
.
And you know they see yourmessage 11 times and they need
to see it on four differentchannels.
And, uh, if you follow thatformula, you're going to, you're
going to and you're targetingthe right people.
Good things are going to happen,Like I.
I just I don't think there'sany any other way, way around it
(38:12):
.
But, man, if they just know whoyou are, over over that, quote,
unquote, seven hours.
They're going to know I cantrust you and they're going to
decide whether to do this withyou.
Like you're, you're like astraight up, like you know, no,
no, like right, Get right to thepoint.
Kind of a no nonsense kind ofguy, People are going to listen
to this and go.
Man, that's what I want, that'swho I want to work with, Right.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I describe my style as unapologetically authentic.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I like it.
I like it.
Well, hey, we're I.
I want to make sure people knowhow to get in touch with you.
Where are you hanging out?
What are you doing?
I know you got an emailnewsletter.
People have inscribed true,kind of tell, tell, tell
everybody your info.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yep, so company is intentionally inspirationalcom,
so that is also the website youcan go to If you really want to
see Jason unplugged more of this, but even a bit more hardcore.
Our YouTube channel.
We have a playlist called smoke, flow and grow and it's turned
into me reviewing a lot ofcigars and hanging out by my
pool and talking a little bitabout business, but it's a.
(39:12):
It's a great place to to getmore of a feel for me, unplugged
and, yeah, intentionallyinspirationalcom.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Love it.
Jason, thank you so much forcoming on.
So, everybody, if you're tryingto grow your business with the
largest, most powerful tool onthe planet the internet, reach
out to EWR digital for morerevenue in your business.
Also, check out EWR digitalcom,because most people that listen
to podcasts I see in theaudience set so they know about
the podcast but they don't knowabout business, and vice versa.
(39:41):
Um, so, please, just share thatwith somebody you know if
you've got value.
Um, you know, check out MatthewBertramcom.
Uh, I am growing, uh like acoaching business and kind of I
just figure on, on, on on Google.
So that was, that was prettycool and until the next time,
guys, bye-bye for now.
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