April 13, 2025 • 45 mins
The influencer marketing landscape has transformed dramatically, with Open Sponsorship evolving from a platform connecting pro athletes with brands to a tech-enabled agency helping businesses maximize content across all marketing channels. Athletes and influencers now provide exceptional ROI when their content is strategically amplified beyond social media posts.
• Influencer partnerships work best when integrated across your existing marketing channels (email, website, paid ads)
• Athlete content can be repurposed for 6 months in your marketing with proper rights agreements
• College athletes now represent a massive opportunity for local business partnerships
• Female athletes and WNBA players have seen exponential growth in influencer value
• Service-based and B2B businesses see surprising success using athletes for humanizing technical offerings
• Testing multiple smaller influencer partnerships helps identify which personalities truly resonate with your audience
• Even "mundane" industries benefit from influencer partnerships that add storytelling elements
• Internal employee engagement represents an overlooked opportunity for influencer collaborations
• Micro-influencers with highly engaged communities often outperform celebrities for specific target audiences
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Alright, welcome back to the Unknown Secrets of
Internet Marketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram,having some technical issues
again, I don't know, but I haveIshveen Jolly with me with open
sponsorship.
It's a influencer marketingcompany from across the pond and
wanted to talk about someadvanced strategies to
(00:38):
incorporate into your marketingstrategy, as it has to do with
thought leadership, reputationmanagement and influencer
marketing.
It's a huge topic.
So, ishveen, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
All right.
Well, we tried to do this againwhen we were having snow vid
here in Houston, so I appreciateyour patience For all of you
local listeners.
You know what I'm talking about.
We're based in Houston, texas,and we don't get snow very often
.
But let's talk a little bitabout your origin story.
I know we did that previously,but I thought it'd be good for
(01:14):
the listenership to understandhow you got to this point.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, absolutely so, I suppose, even though I'm
British.
Our company is based in America, so we started in New York.
Really, it was about sportssponsorship, a 60 billion dollar
industry, a wonderful form ofmarketing that's super
inefficient.
And then, with the rise ofinfluencer marketing, we saw
(01:38):
this opportunity to have areally easy way and effective
way for brands to partner withathletes in their social media
and their content marketing,user generation, all of that
stuff.
So we basically combineinfluencer marketing and sports
sponsorship.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Awesome.
So when you talk about thedifferent industries, just to
kind of set the table a littlebit more, what are you working
across all industries?
Are there specific industriesyou're focused on?
And also, what is the marketlandscape look like with
different influencers indifferent you know, basketball,
baseball, that sort of thing?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, so we kind of work across the whole range of
industries, everything from I Imean obviously we do very well
with like supplements, vitamins,health and wellness apparel
anything that's like veryorganic to athletes, um, but we
also have like western union asa client and, um, you know, like
fintech or crypto or kind ofall these other brands as well,
(02:40):
and then, in terms of athletes,we have over 19,000.
So everyone from like, as youmentioned, like top NFL NBA
players all the way down to kindof peloton instructors, yogis,
olympians and kind of everythingin between.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And open sponsorship.
Is it basically a network whereyou're connecting influencers
with different brands anddifferent industries and they
can kind of negotiate thoseterms and you broker that
through the platform?
Is that kind of the setup?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah well, we started off 10 years ago as a platform
like self-service, a bit like aLinkedIn or like an Elance or
Airbnb.
Come in, put up your campaign abit like a job posting Athletes
agents, airbnb.
Come in, put up your campaign abit like a job posting athletes
agents will apply and youmanage everything contracts,
payments through us.
What we realized about threeyears ago was um, the match is
just one part of it.
What you do with the athlete,the influencer is, is so much
(03:40):
more like and that could bewithin the deal.
So like, are you asking them topost on Instagram or YouTube a
reel or a story?
But then also, what do you do?
Post right, so athletes aresuper effective.
Um, in pr on your website, evenon your amazon site.
So really the the main thing.
It was essentially just like um, let's help our brands be more
(04:01):
successful, and so weessentially parlayed on top of
our marketplace, we, we added ina services business, so some of
our clients would see as moreof a tech enabled agency today.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think that that's a much better setup from what I'm
seeing.
You got to really like I'veseen with the influencer space
and affiliate marketing andstuff like that someone posts on
Instagram, right, and the reellasts for 24 hours or whatever
it is, and then it's gone andthey spent a bunch of money,
(04:33):
right, and that's all they got,and then the brands are going.
Well, that wasn't great, likewe didn't see a bump right.
So even when we do like podcastpitching and stuff like that,
there's a lot of likepre-promotion, post-promotion,
like there's things that have tohappen for it to be effective
and engage.
I've seen a lot of times peopletry new things, experimental
(04:57):
marketing, and then they don'twork.
And so it's maybe that it doeswork, but they implemented it in
a way that might not be aseffective.
So can you maybe talk throughwhat typically goes on in the
marketplace and then what you'veseen work more effectively,
maybe in a little bit moredetail?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah.
So I'd say that kind of whatyou're saying, like the biggest
thing is how do you use thesebenefits?
So, of course, like theInstagram or the TikTok is very
effective in terms of, well,that's how you create the
association, that's what theathlete puts out there, it gets
in front of their organicfollowership.
So that's great.
(05:38):
But really, you as a brandprobably have know thousands,
tens of thousands of emails inyour email list.
Now, when you use that athlete'scontent, their name, their
image in your email and say youknow, let's say it's a college
campaign, and you're saying,like what march madness?
And so it's like, hey, we'rerunning our march special in
(05:58):
collaboration with this athletewho's in march madness.
Like it just adds cachet, itadds, adds a story, it's cool.
And anyway, as brands you'respending so much money on like
content creation andstorytelling and PR, why not
just use this deal that we'redoing with you inside of those
channels?
So, whether that's MMS or, as Isaid, website PR, whatever it
(06:20):
may be, so I'd say, like whatyou get the athlete to do is
important, but what you do withthat to do is important, but
what you do with that, thencontent is even more important.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So with with the agreements you're making, and
especially, I think, in thecollege realm, um, that's that's
really opened up recently.
But the name, image andlikeness type deals, um, is that
more commonplace than just theposts?
And so they become de facto.
They could be your spokesperson, for I don't know how are the
(06:52):
contracts negotiated for Xamount of time?
Or if you were to put them onyour website, you're like, hey,
we did this.
There's probably a time clauseor a relevancy of that person
anyway that you might not wantto keep them on if you're not
continuously engaging with them,or something like that.
Like, how do you frame that upif you're a business?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, it's actually like one of the best things
about doing this stuff is likeyou will pay them pay an athlete
, influencer the rate for like asocial media deal, but then you
get the rights for, let's say,six months, typically to use an
organic and paid, and so youhave got a six month partnership
, but essentially it's costedout like a one month partnership
(07:37):
.
So it is a very, very good deal.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay, so I, I understand like, yeah, let's,
let's like use, like maybe acase study or something like
that.
So I work with some supplementbrands um as well.
Um, the former co-host,actually, of this show, uh
started a supplement companythat's doing quite well and he
uses a lot of influencers andthat's where I get a lot of um,
my experience.
(08:02):
We, we work with some specifice-commerce brands as well.
Um, but like, okay, uh, we talkback and forth a lot about what
he's doing and he's getting ona lot of podcasts.
He's engaging with a lot ofpeople.
People are posting, but there,where's the line, especially
like with supplements, right Ofyou just paid this person to do
(08:24):
this thing, right?
So, like how, when you'relooking at it to find the right
partner, that it it aligns withyour brand and it aligns with,
like, their belief structure,like because just someone saying
something is great, um, youknow they may not do it one
right Cause they got to agree toit too.
Um, you know they may not do itone right Cause they got to
agree to it too.
And so how do you find thatbrand match?
(08:47):
I guess?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I think, um, it's tough because there's so
many factors right?
One is like the supplementspace is really competitive with
influencers as as beauty as isfashion, I mean.
So there's everything nearlynowadays.
Um, I really we like the modelof doing many one-off deals and
seeing who resonates and thatresonate.
(09:11):
That like resonance.
It's many things it's.
One is like well, did you likethe content?
Two, like, did you like workingwith them?
Like, did they deliver on time?
Were they easy to work with?
Like did they get you?
Um?
Three is how was the performancelike in terms of sales traffic
generation?
Like you can have great content, but that person could have all
(09:33):
fake followers.
Now, that's okay if what youwant to do is the content, um,
and you can have shit content,but actually people click
through because you know they'reinfluential.
They don't post a lot.
So we really like the idea oflike doing lots of like one offs
, maybe one offs, or like onemonth partnerships, two
different deliverables, whatever, and then deciding who worked
(09:56):
and then turning those into likeyour little family of
influencers, long term,potentially doing royalty deals
with them, like having themcontinuously.
Like create content for you butcontinue to pick up new people
and the big thing, for that isalso like, as as brands evolve,
um, who's your target?
Demo, like I don't think anyoneever really knows anymore.
(10:17):
Like, is it male, is it female?
Is it young?
Is it old?
Is it college, is it high networth individuals, is it this,
um?
And so I think it's like niceto have like different people
appealing to different things,and I'm sure your former
co-founder, like you know, he'dsay, well, my supplements are
great for this persona and thispersona, and I think influencer
marketing is a great way to havehaving.
(10:38):
You know, back in the day, yourwebsite could only really speak
to one person, but now, withinfluencers, you can have, like,
the pro athlete who needssupplements, plus the, the, the
mom that you know, the young momwho needs supplements, and you
can get them both.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, no, definitely the different target audiences
and and I I call it internally Idon't know how appropriate it
is, but I call it kissing frogswhen we're talking and you
wouldn't do that with theinfluencers, but, like when
we're hiring differentcontractors, we're engaging
different people you have to A Btest, you have to try out a lot
and, and some people look goodon paper.
(11:15):
You know some people, themetrics look great, and then you
just have to see, like youdon't know until you work with
that person, uh, if they'regoing to be a Prince, I guess
right, like you, you, you don'tknow, um, uh, what's going to
happen, and you have to try outa lot.
One of our workarounds was, uhand we do this with our podcast
(11:36):
network as well is we targetdifferent target personas for
each brand.
So we um DBA, a bunch ofdifferent brands, that kind of
speak to that different targetaudience or that consumer, maybe
with a similar customer journey, but it is a different message,
it's a different pain pointthat we're going after, and so
then everything for that brand,which might have the same key
(11:59):
ingredients, speak in this wayto that person.
We do that also with our oiland gas podcast network.
We build a storyline and topicsaround what the sponsor wants
to see.
So it's not blatant advertising, it's like here's people that
are interested in this type ofthing, let's create that content
(12:22):
.
And oh, by the way, this iswho's kind of sponsoring the
curation of this content thatyou might be interested in.
And I can totally see, you know,trying out so many different
things, like what are themetrics?
I guess, when you're trying toevaluate for the first time, who
should I engage with?
Right, because there's a lot ofdifferent metrics to look at.
(12:42):
As you spoke before, I thinkthat fake reviews, fake sponsors
, you don't know what's realtoday, right, and I've seen also
that like, okay, yes, themillions of dollars for a Kim
Kardashian post or whateverreach a lot of people, but how
the algorithms work, they kindof find the right content.
(13:04):
Now, on social media and youknow, a smaller like micro
influencer with a really engagednetwork could be a great
opportunity to engage withpeople.
That would very much connectwith your brand and, like you
said, kind of bring them underthe tent of what you're trying
to do.
So how do you evaluate that?
(13:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think, obviously, like, there are data points like
engagement rates a big one.
Now again, everything can belike, fake and whatever else,
but engagement rate is a goodone, obviously.
Follower size, like, even if itis like but like, and I think
that's why we also like theathlete space.
You tend to less um, fakefollowing.
Um, they're legit, you know,representative of their
following, um, but that's, Ithink, where, like, the vibe of
(13:50):
their content comes into play alot.
And that's like going back tothe amplification, so you know
what they put out on theirchannel is just going to be a
small part of like the deal.
And so, do you like theircontent?
Do you like who they are?
Do you like their, their look?
Are they overly glossy?
Are they overly this way orthat way?
And obviously today it's allabout videos.
So how is their video?
(14:11):
How do they come across andwhatever else.
So I think it's a combinationof a bit of data and we also
have demographic following, sothat's really good.
We also have a social listeningtool so we can see like, well,
who has actually talked aboutyour brand or your segment
beforehand, like who's talkedabout crypto, who's talked about
supplements, what have theysaid?
What was the engagement ofthose posts?
(14:31):
So I think there is a lot ofdata to lean on.
And then, plus, do you actuallyjust like their feed?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and, and you know, one of the things that I
get asked a lot when, whencompanies come to us and they
just want to start posting onsocial media or they want to be
active online, um, and they'relike, well, we've tried it
before, they've posted a bunchof stuff, depending on the size
of the business, um, there mightnot even be like a mood board
or a brand guide, and they'rejust kind of like posting all
(15:00):
over the place.
Where I've seen companies failis when they pick something out,
they say, oh, this is awesome,this is new, this is shiny, I'm
going to do this.
And then they do it within avacuum and and then, and then it
might fall, fall, fall on itsface a little bit.
So, like, when you look at theoverall marketing strategy of a
(15:25):
company, there's a right time, Ifeel like to add on influencer
marketing in that kind of PRcategory, because it does get
that attention.
But, like, what are the thingsthat you feel a company needs to
have in place?
Maybe it's an email list, maybeit's you know a great SEO, I
don't know.
Maybe it's you know a great SEO, I don't know.
They have some paid campaigns,but, like, this is a additional
(15:48):
step or integration into whatthey're already doing.
So when you evaluate companieson your service side of the
business, when do you decide orwhat do you recommend to a
company when they're kind ofquote unquote, ready to add this
component?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
quote unquote ready to add this component.
I think I think it can honestlybe as early as launch.
If this is what your need is, Imean it comes back to need
right.
So like, let's say, you'velaunched a new F&B brand and you
want customer feedback, userfeedback, taste testimonials for
your Amazon page, for yourwebsite, great Inf, great
influencer marketing is a verycheap way to go get it's like
it's.
(16:27):
You know, it's like the newschool user research kind of
thing.
Right, send people your umproducts and and get feedback
and if they like it, they canmake a post.
If they don't, then you knowyou can cancel the deal.
Um, so it could be as early asproduct launch.
Obviously, the most effectiveis when you've got all your
channels lined up and this likeone deal can slot across them
(16:49):
all.
But often at that timeeverything's quite siloed and so
it's quite hard for, like, theinfluencer person to get the
paid guy to use this in the paidads and the email has already
been scheduled out.
So there is something like verynice about working with very
small companies where you likethey'll do they'll really
amplify it.
Um, but of course, like there'sless of a base there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Interesting.
Can you provide maybe a coupleexamples of like really good
success stories or setups whereyou've just seen influencer
marketing work?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Fantastic One is we're seeing a lot of this at
the moment where brands havelaunched with retail.
So I've just got into Target orWhole Foods, 7-eleven and I
need to drive eyeballs to thatpartnership.
(17:42):
If everyone on my feed knowsthat we're now in Whole Foods,
then that's good for my brand.
But also I want to drive thosesales.
Influencers are a great way forthat because they can go in,
they can pick up the product,they can take some video.
You can promote that in yourpaid ads and, like you, there's
only so many times you can saywe're in target, but there's a
lot of times an influencer, verylike different influencers, can
(18:04):
say hey, they're, they're intarget.
Right, I've gone, bought them.
So I think that is a a key.
I love that.
One like so brands in retail, um, and that could even be like in
starbucks, it could be.
You know, we've done all sorts.
It could be, you know, whereverit may be.
That's one, um.
I'd say two is when you findpeople who are very aligned,
(18:25):
kind of what you were saying.
So you've gone through the painof having like a few mistakes
and um like not found yourperson, and then you find
someone who just reallyresonates like they are your,
you know they're an extension ofyour brand.
Their followership is anextension of your customer base.
We did that with one of ourbrands, kachava and Sean White.
It was brilliant, and oftenthat's if they're already a
(18:48):
customer.
So that's always really nice,like hey, I'm already a customer
and now you're going to turn meinto a brand ambassador, and
it's just super authentic.
So I love that.
Um, another one we do is we do alot of smaller deals.
I mean, obviously the teamloves doing our big deals but,
like we do, 20 of the deals wedo are just product and probably
another 20 are like 200, 300bucks, um, which I think is fair
(19:10):
because you're comping them fortheir time and those are also
great because you know, if, likewe've done stuff with mattress
companies, obviously food andbeverage kind of across the
board, and if you're like, hey,I'm a college athlete, I'm a
smaller athlete, I'm a microinfluencer and like that supply
of like collagen that'sexpensive, and like if I'm going
to produce great content andI'm just getting free product,
(19:32):
like that's awesome.
And I think that's really wherethe tech comes in, because we
can do hundreds of those dealsin one go in a way that an
agency can't.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So I think that's like a point of differentiation
on our part.
No, I love that.
So one of to jump kind of backto something that we mentioned
earlier that I would love tokind of go into a little bit
more detail on.
Can you just talk about themarket dynamics where college
athletes can now do those kindof deals and what's developed in
the marketplace around that,because I think a lot of people
(20:05):
have interest in their differentcollege teams.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So the thing that's really interesting is just like
the way that the world has goneof athletes and influencers.
So we first started we werevery focused on the pro space
has gone of athletes andinfluencers.
So we first started we werevery focused on the pro space,
um, and then college was collegeathletes in 2021, july were
allowed to monetize themselves.
Um, there was a lot of likewhat will happen?
How does it work, and it's justthe same as the pros, um, the
(20:30):
big difference is there's somany of them one and therefore
you're getting kind of what Iwas saying those smaller deals
as well, like the 200 300 bucks,um, so that's been really
interesting, I'd say.
In the last few years, we'vereally seen a rise of the female
athlete.
So WNBA today is, I mean, it's,it's pricey, uh, compared to
what it was like if you'd workedwith us five years ago on that,
(20:51):
um, so that, and then the.
The last thing that we'vereally been seeing is we've
actually extended way beyondathletes, because our brands
were saying to us cool, we lovedoing athletes, but it's the
intersection of being able to dothat plus foodies, plus
finfluencers, plus diyinfluencers, plus authors and
everything else, and so I thinkthat's been really interesting,
(21:13):
which is I, you, you don't likebeauty is its own category, but
like, mostly, where do you go ifyou want just good influence,
like if you're launching inTarget?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
great athletes are great, but I could also use like
a mommy blogger, but I couldalso use like a local recipe
person, and so I think that'sbeen really key for us as, like,
being cross-sectional acrosslots of influencer categories
speaking of mommy bloggers, um,we do the marketing for the boy
scouts of america, which is nowscouting america, but, um, we
(21:44):
started incorporating two yearsago, mommy bloggers uh into, uh,
our strategies and we saw a lotmore traction, um, across the
board, uh, in different areas,because they're very connected
into the community, and itturned into a lot more
engagement and then even likelong-term followership, right,
(22:06):
because we were reaching thepeople that were really reaching
the moms, and that was, youknow, we started to test out
just let's test out everychannel and set like a new
baseline based on the newbranding and based on like what
we're, what we're trying tocommunicate now, and kind of
(22:27):
revamping the brand message.
And it was.
It was really fascinating tosee the uplift that we were
getting on different campaigns.
It was really fascinating tosee the uplift that we were
getting on different campaignsand these were how are you
tracking that success, like whatwas the metric you were looking
at for uplift?
Well, we were checking the yearprevious, okay, where we weren't
(22:48):
using it first, and then wewere doing it in the Houston
area.
So it was a fall recruitmentcampaign and the mommy bloggers
there was even like differentgroups that this was like pretty
built out, that there's likealmost every neighborhood Okay
Like on the neighborhood levelhas a mommy blogger.
And so, like on the North sideof Houston, for example, we
(23:12):
engaged a mommy blogger where wewere advertising on her website
, in her email and also in hernewsletter, in her email, and
then she was doing some socialposts, right.
So we were like, okay, we'regoing to advertise here and then
in this area we're going to runthe same paid campaign but
(23:33):
we're not going to use the mommyblogger.
And we were looking at theconversion rates, okay, from the
previous year, and so it wasn'tlike a perfect metric on
attribution, but it was saying,okay, well, if these paid rates
are consistent of what they werelast year, we added this
component Are we getting ahigher conversion rate of new
(23:56):
people raising their hand sayinghey, I would like to sign up
for Boy Scouts than we did theprevious year?
So we were just adding thatvariable to it.
That was kind of one of thefirst tests that we were doing,
and we saw click-through ratesgo up, the average costs go down
and we saw more conversions inthat area, and so we were also
(24:19):
testing in different markets,different influencers we had
access to.
So it was kind of hard to seethis influencer versus this
influencer.
But going back to what wetalked about, like how quick did
they respond?
Like what were they willing todo?
You know, looking at how wellthe emails that they sent out
(24:43):
were engagements and the poststhey did, and like what we could
just see on the surface levelwas was certainly helpful, and
that decided the refined listthat we would use for the next
year.
And also each mommy blogger um,you know, if, if they were like
really talked about sports ortalked about recipes, right,
(25:07):
like they're talking aboutraising kids versus rest, like,
so we started to get an idea ofof what that, um, that mommy
blogger that we wanted lookedlike.
So, just to provide some detailin that, sorry, I love this
stuff, so I go down these rabbitholes.
(25:27):
One of the things that I'mthinking about let's talk about
crypto, for example.
We have a client in the cryptospace that's launching a new
service and there's a lot oflike trust issues, like with
crypto in general, right, andthey want to be viewed in the
(25:49):
financial traditional space aswell as the crypto space, right.
So it's kind of two differentaudiences that that overlap as
well as the crypto space, right.
So it's kind of two differentaudiences that overlap.
And you know, we're doing a lotof foundational work for them.
We're doing some press releases, we're doing some authority
posts, we're building out thecontent that people would find,
(26:11):
and then the next layer thatwe're going to be adding is that
influencer base right.
Chatting is that influencerbase right.
And so you know, what are somecase studies that you've seen
where influencers or what typeof influencers match.
This is more of a, I guess, apersonal question for a client,
but I would love to hear that.
(26:33):
I know a lot of people wouldtoo.
And crypto is heating up.
We just had the Trumpadministration announce
strategic reserves andeverything kind of whiplashed
with the pricing, and I justthink that there's probably
another cycle coming shortly incrypto and it'll be the thing
that nobody wanted to talk aboutand now everybody's going to
(26:54):
want to talk about.
So this might uh good, uh, thismight age well.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
So I think.
So there's a few differentthings again, like tying it back
to need so, um, are you wantingnew audiences?
In which case, like, okay, whospeaks to that audience?
So let's say, you're acompletely new brand and you
just need to get in front ofpeople, right?
So therefore, you might picklike athletes with majority male
(27:19):
followers in the us in your agerange of 24 to 35, um, and
maybe you're focused on, likethe miami market or like texas
or, you know, california,wherever crypto is trending more
, so are you going for theirdemographic and their following?
Because you just need eyeballsone, maybe you're already have
(27:41):
that, but actually you needcredibility, great.
So then I would be pickingcredible names.
So I probably go for, likefinancial influencers, like
people who talk about money,markets and stocks and shares
and, you know, doing anevaluation, you could go for an
athlete who's very well regardedin the space.
(28:02):
Maybe they're an investor,maybe they are just smart, so
those two would be there.
Maybe you have the validationand you have the eyeballs and
actually what you need is youwant to do a big event and you
just want someone to turn up andspeak and do like a meet and
(28:22):
greet, because you know you'regoing to sell loads of crypto on
like at that point.
So then you want to havesomeone who's like can make it
to la on the 5th of march orwhatever else.
So I think like there'sdifferent use cases.
So I think like there'sdifferent use cases and
different ways to think aboutwell, who slots into that?
(28:42):
But that's like that's thebeauty of the space.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I love that.
Ok, so let's keep on that kindof thought process and talk
about service based industries,for example.
What are the thought processesthat you would think through
when you're building a campaignfor, I don't know, a service
based business?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
that may be more mundane.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You could say home services, or you could say
financial services, or you know,just something like the average
business right Of of a localsmall business.
How would they incorporateinfluencership?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
No, I love that.
So we worked with like a lawnmowing service once Um so one.
I love athletes for that,because I kind of always joke
that if you're very famous, thechances are you move to like LA
or New York, um, but if you'rean athlete, you uh, because you
have to, and so, like you knowthe most famous person in like a
Pittsburgh or a Cleveland orIndiana, wherever is an athlete,
(29:42):
and then parlaying onto thatcollege because they're in like
small towns that even they mightnot be a pro team.
So I really like athletes forlocal businesses, um, so kind of
the same thing as what we justsaid, right, so like.
And also the other bit is likea lot of like local businesses
or service businesses.
They already have theirmarketing going.
So you probably do a bit ofradio, maybe you take out a
(30:03):
couple of flyers and you postthem through the door.
Maybe you and like youadvertise in your local paper
and then you probably do a biton social, but social probably
not your primary driver, it'smaybe other things and then you
might do some paid ads through alocal marketing agency.
So you need a bit of contentfor that.
I mean, I love the idea of likewhether it's a small athlete or
big athlete, and now that's upto you.
You know, obviously, if you canafford a bigger, go for it.
(30:25):
If can't, then go smaller,that's fine.
And it's like, you know,cleveland native.
We chop his lawn right and itcould be just a cheesy photo or
a voiceover of the athlete thatgoes in your radio ads.
You know, like um, we forgetwhen we live in big cities at
how powerful like local radiocan be.
Um on the.
You know like hey, I, you knowI'm part of the um, the steelers
(30:49):
, and like these are my guystook up my lawn in pittsburgh,
blah, blah, blah and so, um, Ireally love the idea of like.
There I would say it's lessabout scale.
Like you might be in DTC, thereI'd say it's like picking one
or two people and like goingdeep on that relationship with
them.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh, I can see that.
Okay, let's switch to B&B now.
Like, so there's.
There's a lot of big companiesthat have budgets that are
trying to spice up theirmarketing, maybe with digital
transformation, maybe sinceCOVID.
They're like okay, there's alot of opportunity online.
I have a lot of conversationswith sales directors that are
(31:31):
like they thought marketing wasjust like graphic design for
events, right, and then whenevents got shut down, they
started exploring all theseother levels.
And there's this merge betweena sales qualified lead and a
marketing qualified lead, and Ieven have a podcast where I kind
of talk about that integrationof comms and that area.
(31:54):
I think that those businessesthat are like you're selling
something again mundane, maybe avalve or something like that, I
think adding personality to thebrand can really be helpful.
Maybe what's your view on a B2Bbusiness that's maybe not a
(32:14):
sales force or something likethat that's not well known, but
to use it in their marketing?
Certainly, I can see the sportsteams angle, for sure If it's a
male dominated industry, but,like, I don't know, how would
you, how would you approach that?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I think it's all like there is different.
It's all about like gettingyour story out in a way that
people actually want to receiveit.
So one of my favorite dealsthat we did years and years ago
when we've kind of like firststarted, was a deal between
Glassdoor and Draymond Green.
You know, glassdoor was aSilicon Valley based company,
tech company, but quitedisruptive, and they had a
(32:57):
Draymond Green, essentially likeghost, write an article, a blog
, and it was like draymondgreen's like eight tips to keep
your workplace fired up andobviously very on brand for him
and um, it had like a 900percent open rate increase in
like share rates and all of thisbecause obviously even everyone
at glass door was like this isso cool.
(33:18):
Draymond Green knows who we areand they shared it on their
LinkedIn and the emails weregreat.
So I think that's just such agood example, like not to tie it
always back to need, but it islike what's your need?
Right?
If you're a software company,maybe you're doing this as
employee engagement, maybethat's the most important thing,
um, maybe it is because youneed to get in front of your
(33:39):
cios and they never pick up thephone.
Well then, you know, we, we dida an event it was a virtual
event with a security uh sascompany and neil degrasse tyson,
and you know, of course, likethat's exciting.
It was half an hour zoom in themiddle of covid and so I'd say I
think athletes are perfect forb2b companies because you almost
(34:00):
want, you're all, like there'sonly so much you can talk about
what you do.
Um, it's not like a productwhere it's like check out this
flavor, it's like we know whatyou do, but why should I show up
?
And like athletes andinfluencers could be a great
reason to show up, or that storythat they tell could be a great
one for, like the email, andthen at the bottom it's like hey
(34:21):
, by the way, book a call withus, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Wow, so that's something that I I haven't
thought about much, if not atall, um using it from an
internal channel, um.
I think, uh, we we've talked, uh, with a number of companies
about a lot like large companies, about setting up internal
podcasts to communicate from thetop down what's going on at the
(34:45):
company.
If you have a company andyou're trying to energize the
company, that could turn into alot of user-generated content
because it's so cool.
You're speaking internally andand I think that the pendulum in
my mind from from a brandingstandpoint is, with all the AI
right Is is shifting back to whoare we as a brand, what is our
(35:10):
brand story and and how do wecommunicate that.
So when you're looking at itfrom a B2B standpoint, you're
really looking at, like ifyou're an internal marketing
team, you're looking at yourbrand as a whole and say, how do
we develop our brand more, howdo we grow our brand more, how
do we build additional layers?
And to focus on that internalcomponent will have an outward
(35:36):
effect, right, Because they'llbe sharing it in that kind of
cool factor.
I love that.
I think that that's a greatexample about how people are not
using influencers.
When I think influencermarketing, I think of a lot of
affiliate partnerships and stufflike that, just based on
previous experience.
But I think that there's a lotmore refinement and development
(35:59):
of it.
I've even seen the marketplacego from uh like with content
marketing, from kind ofauthority posts and stuff like
that, to really bleed more intothe social media and then that
kind of brand mention is is notcoming from a publication as
much as it coming from a trustedperson or individuals.
(36:22):
I've seen that kind oftrajectory happen, very
interesting.
So what are some other thingsthat maybe businesses should
consider when they're looking atinfluencer marketing?
Because you really opened myeyes to how you could use it
internally.
Is there other things like thatthat might be helpful for the
audience?
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I think one is just like it doesn't have to be
expensive, but it can.
Also, you know, it can be achannel you can spend millions
on, but it can be a channel thatyou can just spend 5k a month
on.
And so I think, like thatvariability is unique and it's
quite cool, um.
And the the ability to scale up, like if it's working, great,
(37:05):
if it's, if you're able tofigure out internally how to put
it into all your channels,great.
So I think that flexibility,that's what you know.
We've seen brands come inspending 5-10k and they scale up
and up and up from that.
Or they could be just doingproduct and you can flex up and
down.
Like you know, if, if you're,if it's thanksgiving or amazon
prime day, you spend more, great.
(37:25):
If it's like another time youcould just do product only deals
, but you can have an always-onapproach.
So I think that's quite key isjust like the flexibility of the
budget, um.
And then I do think likethere's something about like
just the word of mouth marketinglike you are essentially
getting your product like fine,whatever they post on social,
but you are getting your productinto the hands of like
influential people within theircommunities and like that in
(37:48):
itself is a benefit that I thinkgets missed.
Um, like it's pretty cool, likethat you might be being used in
the locker room by an NBAplayer and like that.
Like, like you know that that'skey.
And then I think third is likefor brands to think about, like
what is the message you put outthere?
Um, and there should be a lotof testing around that, like
(38:09):
recently we were working withWestern Union and like at first,
what we were thinking aboutdoing, the messaging, the first
round of deals we was, it wasmore like the app and it was
like Western Union, this is anapp to do this.
And now we're going for adifferent track and we're going
to be a bit more emotive.
Like this is what sending moneyabroad to my family means for
me.
Like I've made it and myfamily's back home.
And so I think like and alsoI've definitely seen, even like
(38:33):
something I've pitched recentlyto someone back to that internal
is like having influencers talkabout the founder story, like
why did they start this company?
Who are they?
So I think like it's kind ofcool to think about like the
creative, not just being likehere's a phone, buy it $3.99.
It's like what's the connection?
And there's so many things thatyou can have that person say
(38:55):
and do for you.
It doesn't have to be like aninfomercial.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
No, I love that.
So you know.
One of my last questions is isaround um well, the biggest
barrier that we run against isif somebody hasn't done it
before, right Any kind ofmarketing.
They haven't done it before.
They're not like a believer yetMaybe they've heard a mixed
stories from different people.
We get that a lot with SEO andour marketing packages.
(39:21):
Hey, I've been, I've tried thisbefore.
It doesn't work, I've beenburned, whatever you know,
influencer marketing, I think,is probably a mixed bag from
that standpoint as well and itand it.
it's a kind of a a new thing toincorporate.
And for people that are gun shyI don't know lack of a better
(39:44):
word on spending budget a lot oftimes, I believe you need to
test, like I look at things froma quarterly standpoint and like
we need to get enough testingthat we get to some kind of
statistical like baseline toknow if this is working or not,
and that I think it's good tocycle through a lot of different
people to see that.
But when someone's doing apilot or someone's doing, you
(40:08):
know, trying to spend some moneyand they haven't done it before
right Influencer marketingthere's probably a lot of people
that you talk to that haven'tdone it before.
And then we're talking, okay, a5k price point where they're
just getting comfortablespending online as it is.
How do you navigate thatconversation and what are the
things that you tell them?
Because there's probably peoplelistening going, hey, like I
(40:30):
want to do this, it sounds great, I don't know if I'm ready to
spend that kind of budget.
And then they end up saying,okay, I'm going to try it, I'm
going to try it for 300 bucks or500 bucks or whatever.
And they try it once andthey're like oh, it didn't work.
Like you know what I mean, like, so how, how do you navigate
that conversation?
And what would you say tosomebody that's listening,
that's on the fence and has beenconsidering it and they're just
(40:52):
not over that line yet?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
I think um, I think you have to be really realistic
about like your objective.
So if we definitely run intothis, so you know you spent 400
bucks and you wanted sales, youwanted content, you wanted the
biggest name, you wanted all ofit.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And it's just like well, that's not right.
I wanted this to be a magicalright?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Exactly so.
I think we do try and do a bitof a good job of saying now we
do, before we probably didn't,but also because we understand
it now even better.
But we say, like you're not,you're not going to get sales
for.
Like, unless you're spendingthousands of dollars, you're not
going to get sales.
You will get content that youcan put in your paid ads.
And if you're like, yeah, butthat's an extra expense, well,
(41:38):
that's what you've got.
And like do you spend a coupleof hundred dollars at least
today producing content for yourpaid ads?
Well, see it as that cost.
Um, you will get someone.
Like you know, if you wantsomeone who has 100k plus
followers, it's going to costyou.
If you want someone who hasless than 10k, you're going to
(42:00):
get it cheaper.
But then when they post, veryfew people are going to see it.
So again, like, what are yougoing here for?
Eyeballs, impressions, comments, likes.
So I think it's just like aboutbeing kind of realistic with
what you can get and being clearon like well, what's your goal?
And then hit that goal and thenscale up.
(42:21):
Like, don't change the goalonce you've got oh, I wanted
good content, I got it, but theydidn't have any followers and
they got five likes.
It's like, well, that's not whywe put that person.
So I think that that's the mainthing is like expectations
being realistic and not changingthe goal.
Yeah, I think that that's.
That's is like expectationsbeing realistic and not changing
the goal.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I think that that's.
That's great.
It's part of your marketingstrategy.
It's not your full marketingstrategy, right?
This person?
is not your salesperson.
This person is going to helpget your name out there, it's
going to help get yourecognition, it's going to help
give you great content, and Ithink you said that at the
beginning of the podcast.
It's what you do with it, right, Once you have engaged that
(43:03):
partnership, what do you do?
So we're about to wrap up mylast question for you, just to
squeeze out any more value outof this podcast that we can.
Um, if there's anything that wedidn't talk about, what is, and
it could be something youyou've said before, but let's
(43:27):
prepackage it, Um, and we'll usethis as a short.
What is one unknown secret ofinternet marketing that, uh,
maybe we've talked about or wehaven't talked about.
That, you think is um worthsharing.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, I think we did talk about it, but I will
reiterate it that like theability to do a deal and I'm not
going to say through everyone,but I know that what we do with
our deals the ability to do adeal for one Instagram post or
one TikTok or one YouTube andget the rights to repurpose that
for six months on your feed, onyour website, in your email
(43:58):
marketing, in your MMS, in yourpage, typically in your Amazon
site, literally on yourfounder's LinkedIn or your CMO's
LinkedIn it's like the besthack for me out there.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I love that.
No, I think social is sopowerful, I think a lot of
people are waking up to thatthat people are driving business
just on social alone, and thisis another tool in the tool belt
to communicate thatstorytelling.
So, ishveen, withopensponsorshipcom, what is the
(44:36):
best way for people to find you,to engage with you?
Where are you posting content?
Where can they find out more?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, so, um, obviously, check us out Open
sponsorshipcom.
Sign up for free.
We'll get in touch, we'll dolike a strategy session and tell
you how you can use us andathletes and influencers.
Um, find me on LinkedIn.
Uh, drop me a note.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Awesome.
So, uh, everyone, hopefully youenjoyed this podcast.
If you are looking to build aonline lead gen marketing
channel where it's managed foryou, so that's really what we're
focused on.
Building for clients is amanaged service where you can
focus on growing your businessand we can focus on growing your
(45:19):
marketing and bringing you inthe right customers.
Reach out to EWR Digital formore revenue in your business.
Set up a free consultationonline and until the next time,
my name is Matt Bertram.
Bye-bye for now.
This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing.
Your insider guide to thestrategies top marketers use to
crush the competition.
Ready to unlock your businessfull potential, let's get
started.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Alright, welcome back to the Unknown Secrets of
Internet Marketing.
I am your host, matt Bertram,having some technical issues
again, I don't know, but I haveIshveen Jolly with me with open
sponsorship.
It's a influencer marketingcompany from across the pond and
wanted to talk about someadvanced strategies to
(00:38):
incorporate into your marketingstrategy, as it has to do with
thought leadership, reputationmanagement and influencer
marketing.
It's a huge topic.
So, ishveen, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
All right.
Well, we tried to do this againwhen we were having snow vid
here in Houston, so I appreciateyour patience For all of you
local listeners.
You know what I'm talking about.
We're based in Houston, texas,and we don't get snow very often
.
But let's talk a little bitabout your origin story.
I know we did that previously,but I thought it'd be good for
(01:14):
the listenership to understandhow you got to this point.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, absolutely so, I suppose, even though I'm
British.
Our company is based in America, so we started in New York.
Really, it was about sportssponsorship, a 60 billion dollar
industry, a wonderful form ofmarketing that's super
inefficient.
And then, with the rise ofinfluencer marketing, we saw
(01:38):
this opportunity to have areally easy way and effective
way for brands to partner withathletes in their social media
and their content marketing,user generation, all of that
stuff.
So we basically combineinfluencer marketing and sports
sponsorship.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Awesome.
So when you talk about thedifferent industries, just to
kind of set the table a littlebit more, what are you working
across all industries?
Are there specific industriesyou're focused on?
And also, what is the marketlandscape look like with
different influencers indifferent you know, basketball,
baseball, that sort of thing?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, so we kind of work across the whole range of
industries, everything from I Imean obviously we do very well
with like supplements, vitamins,health and wellness apparel
anything that's like veryorganic to athletes, um, but we
also have like western union asa client and, um, you know, like
fintech or crypto or kind ofall these other brands as well,
(02:40):
and then, in terms of athletes,we have over 19,000.
So everyone from like, as youmentioned, like top NFL NBA
players all the way down to kindof peloton instructors, yogis,
olympians and kind of everythingin between.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And open sponsorship.
Is it basically a network whereyou're connecting influencers
with different brands anddifferent industries and they
can kind of negotiate thoseterms and you broker that
through the platform?
Is that kind of the setup?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah well, we started off 10 years ago as a platform
like self-service, a bit like aLinkedIn or like an Elance or
Airbnb.
Come in, put up your campaign abit like a job posting Athletes
agents, airbnb.
Come in, put up your campaign abit like a job posting athletes
agents will apply and youmanage everything contracts,
payments through us.
What we realized about threeyears ago was um, the match is
just one part of it.
What you do with the athlete,the influencer is, is so much
(03:40):
more like and that could bewithin the deal.
So like, are you asking them topost on Instagram or YouTube a
reel or a story?
But then also, what do you do?
Post right, so athletes aresuper effective.
Um, in pr on your website, evenon your amazon site.
So really the the main thing.
It was essentially just like um, let's help our brands be more
(04:01):
successful, and so weessentially parlayed on top of
our marketplace, we, we added ina services business, so some of
our clients would see as moreof a tech enabled agency today.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I think that that's a much better setup from what I'm
seeing.
You got to really like I'veseen with the influencer space
and affiliate marketing andstuff like that someone posts on
Instagram, right, and the reellasts for 24 hours or whatever
it is, and then it's gone andthey spent a bunch of money,
(04:33):
right, and that's all they got,and then the brands are going.
Well, that wasn't great, likewe didn't see a bump right.
So even when we do like podcastpitching and stuff like that,
there's a lot of likepre-promotion, post-promotion,
like there's things that have tohappen for it to be effective
and engage.
I've seen a lot of times peopletry new things, experimental
(04:57):
marketing, and then they don'twork.
And so it's maybe that it doeswork, but they implemented it in
a way that might not be aseffective.
So can you maybe talk throughwhat typically goes on in the
marketplace and then what you'veseen work more effectively,
maybe in a little bit moredetail?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah.
So I'd say that kind of whatyou're saying, like the biggest
thing is how do you use thesebenefits?
So, of course, like theInstagram or the TikTok is very
effective in terms of, well,that's how you create the
association, that's what theathlete puts out there, it gets
in front of their organicfollowership.
So that's great.
(05:38):
But really, you as a brandprobably have know thousands,
tens of thousands of emails inyour email list.
Now, when you use that athlete'scontent, their name, their
image in your email and say youknow, let's say it's a college
campaign, and you're saying,like what march madness?
And so it's like, hey, we'rerunning our march special in
(05:58):
collaboration with this athletewho's in march madness.
Like it just adds cachet, itadds, adds a story, it's cool.
And anyway, as brands you'respending so much money on like
content creation andstorytelling and PR, why not
just use this deal that we'redoing with you inside of those
channels?
So, whether that's MMS or, as Isaid, website PR, whatever it
(06:20):
may be, so I'd say, like whatyou get the athlete to do is
important, but what you do withthat to do is important, but
what you do with that, thencontent is even more important.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So with with the agreements you're making, and
especially, I think, in thecollege realm, um, that's that's
really opened up recently.
But the name, image andlikeness type deals, um, is that
more commonplace than just theposts?
And so they become de facto.
They could be your spokesperson, for I don't know how are the
(06:52):
contracts negotiated for Xamount of time?
Or if you were to put them onyour website, you're like, hey,
we did this.
There's probably a time clauseor a relevancy of that person
anyway that you might not wantto keep them on if you're not
continuously engaging with them,or something like that.
Like, how do you frame that upif you're a business?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, it's actually like one of the best things
about doing this stuff is likeyou will pay them pay an athlete
, influencer the rate for like asocial media deal, but then you
get the rights for, let's say,six months, typically to use an
organic and paid, and so youhave got a six month partnership
, but essentially it's costedout like a one month partnership
(07:37):
.
So it is a very, very good deal.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay, so I, I understand like, yeah, let's,
let's like use, like maybe acase study or something like
that.
So I work with some supplementbrands um as well.
Um, the former co-host,actually, of this show, uh
started a supplement companythat's doing quite well and he
uses a lot of influencers andthat's where I get a lot of um,
my experience.
(08:02):
We, we work with some specifice-commerce brands as well.
Um, but like, okay, uh, we talkback and forth a lot about what
he's doing and he's getting ona lot of podcasts.
He's engaging with a lot ofpeople.
People are posting, but there,where's the line, especially
like with supplements, right Ofyou just paid this person to do
(08:24):
this thing, right?
So, like how, when you'relooking at it to find the right
partner, that it it aligns withyour brand and it aligns with,
like, their belief structure,like because just someone saying
something is great, um, youknow they may not do it one
right Cause they got to agree toit too.
Um, you know they may not do itone right Cause they got to
agree to it too.
And so how do you find thatbrand match?
(08:47):
I guess?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, I think, um, it's tough because there's so
many factors right?
One is like the supplementspace is really competitive with
influencers as as beauty as isfashion, I mean.
So there's everything nearlynowadays.
Um, I really we like the modelof doing many one-off deals and
seeing who resonates and thatresonate.
(09:11):
That like resonance.
It's many things it's.
One is like well, did you likethe content?
Two, like, did you like workingwith them?
Like, did they deliver on time?
Were they easy to work with?
Like did they get you?
Um?
Three is how was the performancelike in terms of sales traffic
generation?
Like you can have great content, but that person could have all
(09:33):
fake followers.
Now, that's okay if what youwant to do is the content, um,
and you can have shit content,but actually people click
through because you know they'reinfluential.
They don't post a lot.
So we really like the idea oflike doing lots of like one offs
, maybe one offs, or like onemonth partnerships, two
different deliverables, whatever, and then deciding who worked
(09:56):
and then turning those into likeyour little family of
influencers, long term,potentially doing royalty deals
with them, like having themcontinuously.
Like create content for you butcontinue to pick up new people
and the big thing, for that isalso like, as as brands evolve,
um, who's your target?
Demo, like I don't think anyoneever really knows anymore.
(10:17):
Like, is it male, is it female?
Is it young?
Is it old?
Is it college, is it high networth individuals, is it this,
um?
And so I think it's like niceto have like different people
appealing to different things,and I'm sure your former
co-founder, like you know, he'dsay, well, my supplements are
great for this persona and thispersona, and I think influencer
marketing is a great way to havehaving.
(10:38):
You know, back in the day, yourwebsite could only really speak
to one person, but now, withinfluencers, you can have, like,
the pro athlete who needssupplements, plus the, the, the
mom that you know, the young momwho needs supplements, and you
can get them both.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, no, definitely the different target audiences
and and I I call it internally Idon't know how appropriate it
is, but I call it kissing frogswhen we're talking and you
wouldn't do that with theinfluencers, but, like when
we're hiring differentcontractors, we're engaging
different people you have to A Btest, you have to try out a lot
and, and some people look goodon paper.
(11:15):
You know some people, themetrics look great, and then you
just have to see, like youdon't know until you work with
that person, uh, if they'regoing to be a Prince, I guess
right, like you, you, you don'tknow, um, uh, what's going to
happen, and you have to try outa lot.
One of our workarounds was, uhand we do this with our podcast
(11:36):
network as well is we targetdifferent target personas for
each brand.
So we um DBA, a bunch ofdifferent brands, that kind of
speak to that different targetaudience or that consumer, maybe
with a similar customer journey, but it is a different message,
it's a different pain pointthat we're going after, and so
then everything for that brand,which might have the same key
(11:59):
ingredients, speak in this wayto that person.
We do that also with our oiland gas podcast network.
We build a storyline and topicsaround what the sponsor wants
to see.
So it's not blatant advertising, it's like here's people that
are interested in this type ofthing, let's create that content
(12:22):
.
And oh, by the way, this iswho's kind of sponsoring the
curation of this content thatyou might be interested in.
And I can totally see, you know,trying out so many different
things, like what are themetrics?
I guess, when you're trying toevaluate for the first time, who
should I engage with?
Right, because there's a lot ofdifferent metrics to look at.
(12:42):
As you spoke before, I thinkthat fake reviews, fake sponsors
, you don't know what's realtoday, right, and I've seen also
that like, okay, yes, themillions of dollars for a Kim
Kardashian post or whateverreach a lot of people, but how
the algorithms work, they kindof find the right content.
(13:04):
Now, on social media and youknow, a smaller like micro
influencer with a really engagednetwork could be a great
opportunity to engage withpeople.
That would very much connectwith your brand and, like you
said, kind of bring them underthe tent of what you're trying
to do.
So how do you evaluate that?
(13:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think, obviously, like, there are data points like
engagement rates a big one.
Now again, everything can belike, fake and whatever else,
but engagement rate is a goodone, obviously.
Follower size, like, even if itis like but like, and I think
that's why we also like theathlete space.
You tend to less um, fakefollowing.
Um, they're legit, you know,representative of their
following, um, but that's, Ithink, where, like, the vibe of
(13:50):
their content comes into play alot.
And that's like going back tothe amplification, so you know
what they put out on theirchannel is just going to be a
small part of like the deal.
And so, do you like theircontent?
Do you like who they are?
Do you like their, their look?
Are they overly glossy?
Are they overly this way orthat way?
And obviously today it's allabout videos.
So how is their video?
(14:11):
How do they come across andwhatever else.
So I think it's a combinationof a bit of data and we also
have demographic following, sothat's really good.
We also have a social listeningtool so we can see like, well,
who has actually talked aboutyour brand or your segment
beforehand, like who's talkedabout crypto, who's talked about
supplements, what have theysaid?
What was the engagement ofthose posts?
(14:31):
So I think there is a lot ofdata to lean on.
And then, plus, do you actuallyjust like their feed?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and, and you know, one of the things that I
get asked a lot when, whencompanies come to us and they
just want to start posting onsocial media or they want to be
active online, um, and they'relike, well, we've tried it
before, they've posted a bunchof stuff, depending on the size
of the business, um, there mightnot even be like a mood board
or a brand guide, and they'rejust kind of like posting all
(15:00):
over the place.
Where I've seen companies failis when they pick something out,
they say, oh, this is awesome,this is new, this is shiny, I'm
going to do this.
And then they do it within avacuum and and then, and then it
might fall, fall, fall on itsface a little bit.
So, like, when you look at theoverall marketing strategy of a
(15:25):
company, there's a right time, Ifeel like to add on influencer
marketing in that kind of PRcategory, because it does get
that attention.
But, like, what are the thingsthat you feel a company needs to
have in place?
Maybe it's an email list, maybeit's you know a great SEO, I
don't know.
Maybe it's you know a great SEO, I don't know.
They have some paid campaigns,but, like, this is a additional
(15:48):
step or integration into whatthey're already doing.
So when you evaluate companieson your service side of the
business, when do you decide orwhat do you recommend to a
company when they're kind ofquote unquote, ready to add this
component?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
quote unquote ready to add this component.
I think I think it can honestlybe as early as launch.
If this is what your need is, Imean it comes back to need
right.
So like, let's say, you'velaunched a new F&B brand and you
want customer feedback, userfeedback, taste testimonials for
your Amazon page, for yourwebsite, great Inf, great
influencer marketing is a verycheap way to go get it's like
it's.
(16:27):
You know, it's like the newschool user research kind of
thing.
Right, send people your umproducts and and get feedback
and if they like it, they canmake a post.
If they don't, then you knowyou can cancel the deal.
Um, so it could be as early asproduct launch.
Obviously, the most effectiveis when you've got all your
channels lined up and this likeone deal can slot across them
(16:49):
all.
But often at that timeeverything's quite siloed and so
it's quite hard for, like, theinfluencer person to get the
paid guy to use this in the paidads and the email has already
been scheduled out.
So there is something like verynice about working with very
small companies where you likethey'll do they'll really
amplify it.
Um, but of course, like there'sless of a base there.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Interesting.
Can you provide maybe a coupleexamples of like really good
success stories or setups whereyou've just seen influencer
marketing work?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Fantastic One is we're seeing a lot of this at
the moment where brands havelaunched with retail.
So I've just got into Target orWhole Foods, 7-eleven and I
need to drive eyeballs to thatpartnership.
(17:42):
If everyone on my feed knowsthat we're now in Whole Foods,
then that's good for my brand.
But also I want to drive thosesales.
Influencers are a great way forthat because they can go in,
they can pick up the product,they can take some video.
You can promote that in yourpaid ads and, like you, there's
only so many times you can saywe're in target, but there's a
lot of times an influencer, verylike different influencers, can
(18:04):
say hey, they're, they're intarget.
Right, I've gone, bought them.
So I think that is a a key.
I love that.
One like so brands in retail, um, and that could even be like in
starbucks, it could be.
You know, we've done all sorts.
It could be, you know, whereverit may be.
That's one, um.
I'd say two is when you findpeople who are very aligned,
(18:25):
kind of what you were saying.
So you've gone through the painof having like a few mistakes
and um like not found yourperson, and then you find
someone who just reallyresonates like they are your,
you know they're an extension ofyour brand.
Their followership is anextension of your customer base.
We did that with one of ourbrands, kachava and Sean White.
It was brilliant, and oftenthat's if they're already a
(18:48):
customer.
So that's always really nice,like hey, I'm already a customer
and now you're going to turn meinto a brand ambassador, and
it's just super authentic.
So I love that.
Um, another one we do is we do alot of smaller deals.
I mean, obviously the teamloves doing our big deals but,
like we do, 20 of the deals wedo are just product and probably
another 20 are like 200, 300bucks, um, which I think is fair
(19:10):
because you're comping them fortheir time and those are also
great because you know, if, likewe've done stuff with mattress
companies, obviously food andbeverage kind of across the
board, and if you're like, hey,I'm a college athlete, I'm a
smaller athlete, I'm a microinfluencer and like that supply
of like collagen that'sexpensive, and like if I'm going
to produce great content andI'm just getting free product,
(19:32):
like that's awesome.
And I think that's really wherethe tech comes in, because we
can do hundreds of those dealsin one go in a way that an
agency can't.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So I think that's like a point of differentiation
on our part.
No, I love that.
So one of to jump kind of backto something that we mentioned
earlier that I would love tokind of go into a little bit
more detail on.
Can you just talk about themarket dynamics where college
athletes can now do those kindof deals and what's developed in
the marketplace around that,because I think a lot of people
(20:05):
have interest in their differentcollege teams.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So the thing that's really interesting is just like
the way that the world has goneof athletes and influencers.
So we first started we werevery focused on the pro space
has gone of athletes andinfluencers.
So we first started we werevery focused on the pro space,
um, and then college was collegeathletes in 2021, july were
allowed to monetize themselves.
Um, there was a lot of likewhat will happen?
How does it work, and it's justthe same as the pros, um, the
(20:30):
big difference is there's somany of them one and therefore
you're getting kind of what Iwas saying those smaller deals
as well, like the 200 300 bucks,um, so that's been really
interesting, I'd say.
In the last few years, we'vereally seen a rise of the female
athlete.
So WNBA today is, I mean, it's,it's pricey, uh, compared to
what it was like if you'd workedwith us five years ago on that,
(20:51):
um, so that, and then the.
The last thing that we'vereally been seeing is we've
actually extended way beyondathletes, because our brands
were saying to us cool, we lovedoing athletes, but it's the
intersection of being able to dothat plus foodies, plus
finfluencers, plus diyinfluencers, plus authors and
everything else, and so I thinkthat's been really interesting,
(21:13):
which is I, you, you don't likebeauty is its own category, but
like, mostly, where do you go ifyou want just good influence,
like if you're launching inTarget?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
great athletes are great, but I could also use like
a mommy blogger, but I couldalso use like a local recipe
person, and so I think that'sbeen really key for us as, like,
being cross-sectional acrosslots of influencer categories
speaking of mommy bloggers, um,we do the marketing for the boy
scouts of america, which is nowscouting america, but, um, we
(21:44):
started incorporating two yearsago, mommy bloggers uh into, uh,
our strategies and we saw a lotmore traction, um, across the
board, uh, in different areas,because they're very connected
into the community, and itturned into a lot more
engagement and then even likelong-term followership, right,
(22:06):
because we were reaching thepeople that were really reaching
the moms, and that was, youknow, we started to test out
just let's test out everychannel and set like a new
baseline based on the newbranding and based on like what
we're, what we're trying tocommunicate now, and kind of
(22:27):
revamping the brand message.
And it was.
It was really fascinating tosee the uplift that we were
getting on different campaigns.
It was really fascinating tosee the uplift that we were
getting on different campaignsand these were how are you
tracking that success, like whatwas the metric you were looking
at for uplift?
Well, we were checking the yearprevious, okay, where we weren't
(22:48):
using it first, and then wewere doing it in the Houston
area.
So it was a fall recruitmentcampaign and the mommy bloggers
there was even like differentgroups that this was like pretty
built out, that there's likealmost every neighborhood Okay
Like on the neighborhood levelhas a mommy blogger.
And so, like on the North sideof Houston, for example, we
(23:12):
engaged a mommy blogger where wewere advertising on her website
, in her email and also in hernewsletter, in her email, and
then she was doing some socialposts, right.
So we were like, okay, we'regoing to advertise here and then
in this area we're going to runthe same paid campaign but
(23:33):
we're not going to use the mommyblogger.
And we were looking at theconversion rates, okay, from the
previous year, and so it wasn'tlike a perfect metric on
attribution, but it was saying,okay, well, if these paid rates
are consistent of what they werelast year, we added this
component Are we getting ahigher conversion rate of new
(23:56):
people raising their hand sayinghey, I would like to sign up
for Boy Scouts than we did theprevious year?
So we were just adding thatvariable to it.
That was kind of one of thefirst tests that we were doing,
and we saw click-through ratesgo up, the average costs go down
and we saw more conversions inthat area, and so we were also
(24:19):
testing in different markets,different influencers we had
access to.
So it was kind of hard to seethis influencer versus this
influencer.
But going back to what wetalked about, like how quick did
they respond?
Like what were they willing todo?
You know, looking at how wellthe emails that they sent out
(24:43):
were engagements and the poststhey did, and like what we could
just see on the surface levelwas was certainly helpful, and
that decided the refined listthat we would use for the next
year.
And also each mommy blogger um,you know, if, if they were like
really talked about sports ortalked about recipes, right,
(25:07):
like they're talking aboutraising kids versus rest, like,
so we started to get an idea ofof what that, um, that mommy
blogger that we wanted lookedlike.
So, just to provide some detailin that, sorry, I love this
stuff, so I go down these rabbitholes.
(25:27):
One of the things that I'mthinking about let's talk about
crypto, for example.
We have a client in the cryptospace that's launching a new
service and there's a lot oflike trust issues, like with
crypto in general, right, andthey want to be viewed in the
(25:49):
financial traditional space aswell as the crypto space, right.
So it's kind of two differentaudiences that that overlap as
well as the crypto space, right.
So it's kind of two differentaudiences that overlap.
And you know, we're doing a lotof foundational work for them.
We're doing some press releases, we're doing some authority
posts, we're building out thecontent that people would find,
(26:11):
and then the next layer thatwe're going to be adding is that
influencer base right.
Chatting is that influencerbase right.
And so you know, what are somecase studies that you've seen
where influencers or what typeof influencers match.
This is more of a, I guess, apersonal question for a client,
but I would love to hear that.
(26:33):
I know a lot of people wouldtoo.
And crypto is heating up.
We just had the Trumpadministration announce
strategic reserves andeverything kind of whiplashed
with the pricing, and I justthink that there's probably
another cycle coming shortly incrypto and it'll be the thing
that nobody wanted to talk aboutand now everybody's going to
(26:54):
want to talk about.
So this might uh good, uh, thismight age well.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
So I think.
So there's a few differentthings again, like tying it back
to need so, um, are you wantingnew audiences?
In which case, like, okay, whospeaks to that audience?
So let's say, you're acompletely new brand and you
just need to get in front ofpeople, right?
So therefore, you might picklike athletes with majority male
(27:19):
followers in the us in your agerange of 24 to 35, um, and
maybe you're focused on, likethe miami market or like texas
or, you know, california,wherever crypto is trending more
, so are you going for theirdemographic and their following?
Because you just need eyeballsone, maybe you're already have
(27:41):
that, but actually you needcredibility, great.
So then I would be pickingcredible names.
So I probably go for, likefinancial influencers, like
people who talk about money,markets and stocks and shares
and, you know, doing anevaluation, you could go for an
athlete who's very well regardedin the space.
(28:02):
Maybe they're an investor,maybe they are just smart, so
those two would be there.
Maybe you have the validationand you have the eyeballs and
actually what you need is youwant to do a big event and you
just want someone to turn up andspeak and do like a meet and
(28:22):
greet, because you know you'regoing to sell loads of crypto on
like at that point.
So then you want to havesomeone who's like can make it
to la on the 5th of march orwhatever else.
So I think like there'sdifferent use cases.
So I think like there'sdifferent use cases and
different ways to think aboutwell, who slots into that?
(28:42):
But that's like that's thebeauty of the space.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I love that.
Ok, so let's keep on that kindof thought process and talk
about service based industries,for example.
What are the thought processesthat you would think through
when you're building a campaignfor, I don't know, a service
based business?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
that may be more mundane.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You could say home services, or you could say
financial services, or you know,just something like the average
business right Of of a localsmall business.
How would they incorporateinfluencership?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
No, I love that.
So we worked with like a lawnmowing service once Um so one.
I love athletes for that,because I kind of always joke
that if you're very famous, thechances are you move to like LA
or New York, um, but if you'rean athlete, you uh, because you
have to, and so, like you knowthe most famous person in like a
Pittsburgh or a Cleveland orIndiana, wherever is an athlete,
(29:42):
and then parlaying onto thatcollege because they're in like
small towns that even they mightnot be a pro team.
So I really like athletes forlocal businesses, um, so kind of
the same thing as what we justsaid, right, so like.
And also the other bit is likea lot of like local businesses
or service businesses.
They already have theirmarketing going.
So you probably do a bit ofradio, maybe you take out a
(30:03):
couple of flyers and you postthem through the door.
Maybe you and like youadvertise in your local paper
and then you probably do a biton social, but social probably
not your primary driver, it'smaybe other things and then you
might do some paid ads through alocal marketing agency.
So you need a bit of contentfor that.
I mean, I love the idea of likewhether it's a small athlete or
big athlete, and now that's upto you.
You know, obviously, if you canafford a bigger, go for it.
(30:25):
If can't, then go smaller,that's fine.
And it's like, you know,cleveland native.
We chop his lawn right and itcould be just a cheesy photo or
a voiceover of the athlete thatgoes in your radio ads.
You know, like um, we forgetwhen we live in big cities at
how powerful like local radiocan be.
Um on the.
You know like hey, I, you knowI'm part of the um, the steelers
(30:49):
, and like these are my guystook up my lawn in pittsburgh,
blah, blah, blah and so, um, Ireally love the idea of like.
There I would say it's lessabout scale.
Like you might be in DTC, thereI'd say it's like picking one
or two people and like goingdeep on that relationship with
them.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Oh, I can see that.
Okay, let's switch to B&B now.
Like, so there's.
There's a lot of big companiesthat have budgets that are
trying to spice up theirmarketing, maybe with digital
transformation, maybe sinceCOVID.
They're like okay, there's alot of opportunity online.
I have a lot of conversationswith sales directors that are
(31:31):
like they thought marketing wasjust like graphic design for
events, right, and then whenevents got shut down, they
started exploring all theseother levels.
And there's this merge betweena sales qualified lead and a
marketing qualified lead, and Ieven have a podcast where I kind
of talk about that integrationof comms and that area.
(31:54):
I think that those businessesthat are like you're selling
something again mundane, maybe avalve or something like that, I
think adding personality to thebrand can really be helpful.
Maybe what's your view on a B2Bbusiness that's maybe not a
(32:14):
sales force or something likethat that's not well known, but
to use it in their marketing?
Certainly, I can see the sportsteams angle, for sure If it's a
male dominated industry, but,like, I don't know, how would
you, how would you approach that?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I think it's all like there is different.
It's all about like gettingyour story out in a way that
people actually want to receiveit.
So one of my favorite dealsthat we did years and years ago
when we've kind of like firststarted, was a deal between
Glassdoor and Draymond Green.
You know, glassdoor was aSilicon Valley based company,
tech company, but quitedisruptive, and they had a
(32:57):
Draymond Green, essentially likeghost, write an article, a blog
, and it was like draymondgreen's like eight tips to keep
your workplace fired up andobviously very on brand for him
and um, it had like a 900percent open rate increase in
like share rates and all of thisbecause obviously even everyone
at glass door was like this isso cool.
(33:18):
Draymond Green knows who we areand they shared it on their
LinkedIn and the emails weregreat.
So I think that's just such agood example, like not to tie it
always back to need, but it islike what's your need?
Right?
If you're a software company,maybe you're doing this as
employee engagement, maybethat's the most important thing,
um, maybe it is because youneed to get in front of your
(33:39):
cios and they never pick up thephone.
Well then, you know, we, we dida an event it was a virtual
event with a security uh sascompany and neil degrasse tyson,
and you know, of course, likethat's exciting.
It was half an hour zoom in themiddle of covid and so I'd say I
think athletes are perfect forb2b companies because you almost
(34:00):
want, you're all, like there'sonly so much you can talk about
what you do.
Um, it's not like a productwhere it's like check out this
flavor, it's like we know whatyou do, but why should I show up
?
And like athletes andinfluencers could be a great
reason to show up, or that storythat they tell could be a great
one for, like the email, andthen at the bottom it's like hey
(34:21):
, by the way, book a call withus, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Wow, so that's something that I I haven't
thought about much, if not atall, um using it from an
internal channel, um.
I think, uh, we we've talked, uh, with a number of companies
about a lot like large companies, about setting up internal
podcasts to communicate from thetop down what's going on at the
(34:45):
company.
If you have a company andyou're trying to energize the
company, that could turn into alot of user-generated content
because it's so cool.
You're speaking internally andand I think that the pendulum in
my mind from from a brandingstandpoint is, with all the AI
right Is is shifting back to whoare we as a brand, what is our
(35:10):
brand story and and how do wecommunicate that.
So when you're looking at itfrom a B2B standpoint, you're
really looking at, like ifyou're an internal marketing
team, you're looking at yourbrand as a whole and say, how do
we develop our brand more, howdo we grow our brand more, how
do we build additional layers?
And to focus on that internalcomponent will have an outward
(35:36):
effect, right, Because they'llbe sharing it in that kind of
cool factor.
I love that.
I think that that's a greatexample about how people are not
using influencers.
When I think influencermarketing, I think of a lot of
affiliate partnerships and stufflike that, just based on
previous experience.
But I think that there's a lotmore refinement and development
(35:59):
of it.
I've even seen the marketplacego from uh like with content
marketing, from kind ofauthority posts and stuff like
that, to really bleed more intothe social media and then that
kind of brand mention is is notcoming from a publication as
much as it coming from a trustedperson or individuals.
(36:22):
I've seen that kind oftrajectory happen, very
interesting.
So what are some other thingsthat maybe businesses should
consider when they're looking atinfluencer marketing?
Because you really opened myeyes to how you could use it
internally.
Is there other things like thatthat might be helpful for the
audience?
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I think one is just like it doesn't have to be
expensive, but it can.
Also, you know, it can be achannel you can spend millions
on, but it can be a channel thatyou can just spend 5k a month
on.
And so I think, like thatvariability is unique and it's
quite cool, um.
And the the ability to scale up, like if it's working, great,
(37:05):
if it's, if you're able tofigure out internally how to put
it into all your channels,great.
So I think that flexibility,that's what you know.
We've seen brands come inspending 5-10k and they scale up
and up and up from that.
Or they could be just doingproduct and you can flex up and
down.
Like you know, if, if you're,if it's thanksgiving or amazon
prime day, you spend more, great.
(37:25):
If it's like another time youcould just do product only deals
, but you can have an always-onapproach.
So I think that's quite key isjust like the flexibility of the
budget, um.
And then I do think likethere's something about like
just the word of mouth marketinglike you are essentially
getting your product like fine,whatever they post on social,
but you are getting your productinto the hands of like
influential people within theircommunities and like that in
(37:48):
itself is a benefit that I thinkgets missed.
Um, like it's pretty cool, likethat you might be being used in
the locker room by an NBAplayer and like that.
Like, like you know that that'skey.
And then I think third is likefor brands to think about, like
what is the message you put outthere?
Um, and there should be a lotof testing around that, like
(38:09):
recently we were working withWestern Union and like at first,
what we were thinking aboutdoing, the messaging, the first
round of deals we was, it wasmore like the app and it was
like Western Union, this is anapp to do this.
And now we're going for adifferent track and we're going
to be a bit more emotive.
Like this is what sending moneyabroad to my family means for
me.
Like I've made it and myfamily's back home.
And so I think like and alsoI've definitely seen, even like
(38:33):
something I've pitched recentlyto someone back to that internal
is like having influencers talkabout the founder story, like
why did they start this company?
Who are they?
So I think like it's kind ofcool to think about like the
creative, not just being likehere's a phone, buy it $3.99.
It's like what's the connection?
And there's so many things thatyou can have that person say
(38:55):
and do for you.
It doesn't have to be like aninfomercial.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
No, I love that.
So you know.
One of my last questions is isaround um well, the biggest
barrier that we run against isif somebody hasn't done it
before, right Any kind ofmarketing.
They haven't done it before.
They're not like a believer yetMaybe they've heard a mixed
stories from different people.
We get that a lot with SEO andour marketing packages.
(39:21):
Hey, I've been, I've tried thisbefore.
It doesn't work, I've beenburned, whatever you know,
influencer marketing, I think,is probably a mixed bag from
that standpoint as well and itand it.
it's a kind of a a new thing toincorporate.
And for people that are gun shyI don't know lack of a better
(39:44):
word on spending budget a lot oftimes, I believe you need to
test, like I look at things froma quarterly standpoint and like
we need to get enough testingthat we get to some kind of
statistical like baseline toknow if this is working or not,
and that I think it's good tocycle through a lot of different
people to see that.
But when someone's doing apilot or someone's doing, you
(40:08):
know, trying to spend some moneyand they haven't done it before
right Influencer marketingthere's probably a lot of people
that you talk to that haven'tdone it before.
And then we're talking, okay, a5k price point where they're
just getting comfortablespending online as it is.
How do you navigate thatconversation and what are the
things that you tell them?
Because there's probably peoplelistening going, hey, like I
(40:30):
want to do this, it sounds great, I don't know if I'm ready to
spend that kind of budget.
And then they end up saying,okay, I'm going to try it, I'm
going to try it for 300 bucks or500 bucks or whatever.
And they try it once andthey're like oh, it didn't work.
Like you know what I mean, like, so how, how do you navigate
that conversation?
And what would you say tosomebody that's listening,
that's on the fence and has beenconsidering it and they're just
(40:52):
not over that line yet?
Speaker 1 (40:55):
I think um, I think you have to be really realistic
about like your objective.
So if we definitely run intothis, so you know you spent 400
bucks and you wanted sales, youwanted content, you wanted the
biggest name, you wanted all ofit.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
And it's just like well, that's not right.
I wanted this to be a magicalright?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Exactly so.
I think we do try and do a bitof a good job of saying now we
do, before we probably didn't,but also because we understand
it now even better.
But we say, like you're not,you're not going to get sales
for.
Like, unless you're spendingthousands of dollars, you're not
going to get sales.
You will get content that youcan put in your paid ads.
And if you're like, yeah, butthat's an extra expense, well,
(41:38):
that's what you've got.
And like do you spend a coupleof hundred dollars at least
today producing content for yourpaid ads?
Well, see it as that cost.
Um, you will get someone.
Like you know, if you wantsomeone who has 100k plus
followers, it's going to costyou.
If you want someone who hasless than 10k, you're going to
(42:00):
get it cheaper.
But then when they post, veryfew people are going to see it.
So again, like, what are yougoing here for?
Eyeballs, impressions, comments, likes.
So I think it's just like aboutbeing kind of realistic with
what you can get and being clearon like well, what's your goal?
And then hit that goal and thenscale up.
(42:21):
Like, don't change the goalonce you've got oh, I wanted
good content, I got it, but theydidn't have any followers and
they got five likes.
It's like, well, that's not whywe put that person.
So I think that that's the mainthing is like expectations
being realistic and not changingthe goal.
Yeah, I think that that's.
That's is like expectationsbeing realistic and not changing
the goal.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I think that that's.
That's great.
It's part of your marketingstrategy.
It's not your full marketingstrategy, right?
This person?
is not your salesperson.
This person is going to helpget your name out there, it's
going to help get yourecognition, it's going to help
give you great content, and Ithink you said that at the
beginning of the podcast.
It's what you do with it, right, Once you have engaged that
(43:03):
partnership, what do you do?
So we're about to wrap up mylast question for you, just to
squeeze out any more value outof this podcast that we can.
Um, if there's anything that wedidn't talk about, what is, and
it could be something youyou've said before, but let's
(43:27):
prepackage it, Um, and we'll usethis as a short.
What is one unknown secret ofinternet marketing that, uh,
maybe we've talked about or wehaven't talked about.
That, you think is um worthsharing.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, I think we did talk about it, but I will
reiterate it that like theability to do a deal and I'm not
going to say through everyone,but I know that what we do with
our deals the ability to do adeal for one Instagram post or
one TikTok or one YouTube andget the rights to repurpose that
for six months on your feed, onyour website, in your email
(43:58):
marketing, in your MMS, in yourpage, typically in your Amazon
site, literally on yourfounder's LinkedIn or your CMO's
LinkedIn it's like the besthack for me out there.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I love that.
No, I think social is sopowerful, I think a lot of
people are waking up to thatthat people are driving business
just on social alone, and thisis another tool in the tool belt
to communicate thatstorytelling.
So, ishveen, withopensponsorshipcom, what is the
(44:36):
best way for people to find you,to engage with you?
Where are you posting content?
Where can they find out more?
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, so, um, obviously, check us out Open
sponsorshipcom.
Sign up for free.
We'll get in touch, we'll dolike a strategy session and tell
you how you can use us andathletes and influencers.
Um, find me on LinkedIn.
Uh, drop me a note.
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Awesome.
So, uh, everyone, hopefully youenjoyed this podcast.
If you are looking to build aonline lead gen marketing
channel where it's managed foryou, so that's really what we're
focused on.
Building for clients is amanaged service where you can
focus on growing your businessand we can focus on growing your
(45:19):
marketing and bringing you inthe right customers.
Reach out to EWR Digital formore revenue in your business.
Set up a free consultationonline and until the next time,
my name is Matt Bertram.
Bye-bye for now.
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