August 20, 2025 • 28 mins
Agriculture is often at the heart of climate conversations, but not always at the center of climate solutions. Farmers, especially smallholders, carry the heaviest weight of climate shocks while decisions are made far away from their fields.
In this episode of the Let’s Talk Agriculture Podcast, Sharon sits down with Michael Jones, Co-Founder and Lead Architect at AgroReGenerations, to explore what it really means to put farmers first in the fight for climate justice.
Michael shares his journey from city life to co-founding a global initiative spanning East Africa and Indonesia, and why inclusion, equity, and transparency must be at the core of climate action. Together, we unpack:
- Why “farmers first” is more than a slogan and what it looks like in practice
- The tension between climate justice and carbon offsets
- How AgroReGenerations is redefining offsets and avoiding greenwashing
- The role of multiple SDGs in creating a holistic path to resilience
- A vision for an inclusive, climate-smart agricultural future
If you care about equity, climate justice, and building resilience for the farmers who sustain us all, this episode is a must-listen.
About LTA Studio
This podcast is proudly produced by LTA Studio, the media and production arm of Let’s Talk Agriculture LLC. At LTA Studio, we help organizations:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Beautiful people.
Indeed.
That is one of my biggest pleasureis always when I went to my own farm.
So I think it's important to firstunderstand what a healthy relationship
with food is for us to know what it's not.
Not trying to, I can relate.
I can relate selfish.
So you could be your own farmer for.
Who knows.
(00:21):
Trust.
Trust me when I tell you, therewill always be challenges,
there will always be risks.
Seems like we have a lot in common.
Welcome to the Lets Talk Agriculturepodcast show, and of course it's
your favorite girl show here.
Agriculture is often at the heartof climate conversations, you know,
(00:42):
but not always at the center ofclimate solutions, you see farmers,
especially the small holders, theycarry the weight of climate shocks.
While policies, carbon marketsand the big pledges are made
far away from their fields.
So in today's episode, we are exploringwhat it really means to put farmers
(01:03):
first in the fight for climate justice.
And to do that, we are joined byMichael Jones, the co-founder and the
lead active at Agro Regenerations.
So they're working across EastAfrica, Kenya, and Indonesia.
So Michael work challenges the waywe think about equity, inclusion,
(01:27):
and even the so-called solutionsthat sometimes leave farmers behind.
Michael, welcome to the podcast.
I mean, it's great to have you.
We have, we've had so much back and forth.
No, it's great to finally get together.
I really appreciate it and I'm a big fan,so thanks so much for having me, and these
are definitely very key and importantsubjects that are too often overlooked.
(01:50):
Great.
I'm glad you are here to havethis, um, conversation now.
So, you know, let's, let's startwith your journey, really, right?
So,
yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
So we're, we're a globalinitiative, right?
We're focused on regenerativesystems, uh, initiatives using open
source tools specific exactly forsmall farmers and land stewards.
We're trying to measure carbon sink value,nutrition value through regenerative
(02:12):
practices, and kind of a full systemsaudit, while also redefining and creating
a new standard for offsets, I don'teven wanna say carbon offsets, but for
offsets that are always gonna be thecommunities and the farmer, and these land
stewards and the ancestral landowners.
First, whether it be the individualor their community or their
region or their nation shouldbe the benef, uh, benefactor.
(02:36):
And, you know, they're not, it's not aboutgreenwashing at all, and it's definitely
not a license to pollute, um, and whatwe're talking about is the people who
are most at risk uh, to climate change.
So really we need to getinto climate resilience.
We need to understand that food security,uh, relies so heavenly outside of
a few nations, so heavily on smallfarmers and individual farm holders,
(03:00):
not just for their households andtheir communities, but really globally,
and they're so often left behind.
Um, so that's our focus, uh, is thesmall farm holders and we're just doing
everything we can to try to amplifytheir voice and put them first in
everything that we're trying to do.
Alright, thank you for sharing that.
But I think I didn't really get sowhat I was really, uh, expecting,
(03:25):
right so I just wanted to know.
No go Ahead.
What really made you to get rightinto this part of work that you do?
I know why people found.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I grew up in cities, right?
But as a kid, I was always actuallyvery strangely drawn and passionate
about horticulture and got come onmy hands dirty as best as I could.
(03:47):
Uh, but I didn't say I wouldn't, I didn'tgrow up on farms or anything like that.
And then through my journey, uh, youknow, I think it started to really, uh
cement itself after spending significantamount of years in China and, and living
through that kind of air pollution.
And we just kind of naturally createdsome of these natural based solutions
and we created like air purifyingsystems using vegetation and we did
(04:11):
upcycled garden spaces and you know,we did everything we could through
education, um, to kind of tackle theair pollution, what we were living with.
And I got more involved I think withdifferent ways of creating action
and carbon accounting and when thatwas still kind of a new field we're
talking about 10 and 15 years ago.
(04:32):
And then I think when carbon accountinggot a little bit better as far as
understanding your own carbon footprint,I think that realization that a lot
of the world has hit now too, thathow much of our diet and the choices
we make, not just as consumers, butas in our diet consumption, how much
that is our carbon footprint andjust how much power that has and.
(04:53):
Kind of how everything comes backto, uh, the table and, and where that
food comes from and just, I thinkafter being in these big cities and
especially China of just wanting toget back to the source a little bit.
And then just prior to the, the Panton,I spent some time in Indonesia with my
wife and we were working with farmers andcommunity outreach with the universities
(05:14):
and the parks departments, and weare doing these workshops and working
with farmers, and I think I started tounderstand things a little bit better, but
also understand what the pain points wereand why a lot of this kind of innovation
and these farmer initiatives didn'twork and how we can do it differently.
And then just through the course ofdifferent projects that I was doing
with Web3 for good and refi cohortsand things of that nature, and meeting
(05:39):
and working with other people, it justbecame very clear that there was a real
solution that needed to be presentedand I just, all of a sudden, a lot of
the, the locks and the cylinders kindof lined up and it just made sense
that we might be able to offer a bettersolution through the 20, 25 years I've
been abroad and the ecosystem and networkthat I'd already created and my Web3
(06:03):
background and my Web3 for good and myRed Cross background and all that stuff.
I was like, you know what?
I'm already doing all theseinitiatives with NGOs.
We're already doing stuff forcarbon literacy and education.
Let's do it, you know, handson more with the farmers.
And we kind of came up with this ideaof agri regenerations and the specific
goals and how we wanted to do it.
(06:23):
And we kind of got started mapping,uh, early last year I took a
parental leave and then since thisspring we've been the same team.
It's me and, uh, three otherco-founders, a brother and sister from
Kenya, and then a, a woman and, and.
FinTech from Bangladesh has also,uh, spends a lot of time in the uk.
And as a founder herself, uh, we, wejust joined forces and just went forward.
(06:48):
And even when I was away onparental leave, they just kept
quietly mapping and growing.
And then since this spring we'vejust taken off, we've really hit the
ground running and it's just beenscale and grow and scale and grow and
it's been amazing, but it's alwayswith the farmer first and working with
them as we're learning and growing.
Thank you so much forsharing your journey.
(07:08):
I think that's really an amazing one.
And then seeing that you have amazingwomen, you know, as part of your team,
you know, when, when women are involved.
Yeah, it's, it's just like you said, Imean, you went on parent to leave and then
they are left with handling things andof course things are still working well.
So I'm really glad that,um, this, um, collaboration.
(07:30):
Of course with a different country,different, um, culture as well
can still help to, you know, growwhat you are building, right?
Oh, absolutely.
I Mean, mm-hmm.
To jump in, I mean, two ofour co-founders are women.
My wife is also a huge, you know,advisor to this and has amazing
credentials and, and water researchmanagement and carbon literacy and the
(07:50):
educational and charity side of things.
But also we just onboarded our systems.
Uh.
And all of our systems alignment rightnow, uh, who's kind of taking over all
the tech side of it, is this superstar,you know, 20 something year old young
woman from, uh, who's just finishingup her master's at the University
of Birmingham Deepa, and she's kindof now taken over all of our tech.
(08:13):
And it's this great to be workingwith these young people, but also,
uh, you know, to have women onthe team that are just, I mean.
It's almost seems silly to highlightthere, uh, because I, you know,
would you do that with a man?
It's, it's very, it's a funny placeto be in, but it's, I'm so honored and
thankful that I've got, uh, we've gotsuch a well-balanced team with older
(08:36):
and younger and women and differentparts of the globe represented it and
different perspectives, but we've got someamazing people really leading the way.
Well, yes, I'm glad to hear that.
I really appreciate the work that you do.
It's really commendable and ofcourse, I mean, you are having
(08:59):
women, young people on your team.
I think it's, it's really a game changerand I look forward to seeing how, how
well our regeneration is just gonna grow.
I'm definitely, yeah, my eyes out now.
I mean, I.
Well, you know, we were meant tostart our one year pilot for the
Autumn Equinox, even though a lot ofour work is on the equator, right?
(09:21):
We're in Kenya and sprawling inEast Africa, and then NTB with
Lambuk and Sumbawa Indonesia.
And we were trialing right now, uh, whilewe're built out our dashboard and we're
ready to do a full one year pilot, uh,starting with the autumn Equinox between
September 21st and September 23rd.
In just the past three weeks, we werehoping to onboard about 40 farmers
to kind of try things out and inthose three weeks, we've jumped up
(09:44):
to, now we're under, our purview is3000 hectares and over 600 farmers,
and we've done that all organically.
And we've got two NGOs that are UDPbacked, two large mangrove restoration
sites that are well established.
We're sprawling into areas thatare doing war recovery zones.
Uh, we've got innovators and experts,but then we also have our farmer
(10:07):
communities that we're working with.
And it's just really gone crazy.
Even though we're small.
Like if you look at our LinkedIn, youknow, we're at like 450 people today.
It's not a lot, but that's threetimes what we were four weeks ago.
So it's really, it's really kind oftaking shape and, and it's now getting
past kind of this proof of concept.
(10:27):
We're ready to scale and we'reready to really, really run with it.
Amazing.
I'm looking forward to it.
I mean, we are now connected, so Idefinitely keep my eyes out for you, So,
uh, you talk a lot about the farmer's bestapproach, you know, so beyond that race.
What does that actuallylook like in practice?
(10:49):
You know, especially with thecommunities that you've worked with.
Well, so we're talking about, uh,for example, like the carbon offset
and you see these, these offsetinitiatives and things like that.
So one thing that's very popular anda way to do that is through biochar.
So when we say farmers first,like what we're doing right now is
trialing out a small biochar kilnthat could be built semi permanently,
(11:14):
like it should last for years withmodest maintenance for individual
farmers that at about a price point.
For most of, uh, east and West Africaof about 10 US dollars per unit
to build possibly less, and we're
prototyping, how we can share thatinformation to have those built and
that we could scale them for allthe farmers that we're working with.
(11:38):
And then they control their own biomass.
They're burning it, they're able tomanage their own, uh, organic waste
on their farms, and then they're alsogetting that biochar for their fertilizer.
For their use, for their treeseedlings, for their gardens.
So when we do initiatives, whetherit be biochar, whether it be we're
doing like a, we're part of a mushroomconsortium, whether we're growing oyster
(12:01):
farms or upcycled mushrooms, you know,we're trying to control the spawns.
We're trying to make sure that that thebiochar that's being produced is all
done at the individual farmer level.
We're trying to make sure that we'recreating opportunities for young people
and for women, and that that's why wesay generations because if you just
have farmers showing up for a free lunchand trying to get a one-off reward,
(12:23):
you're not gonna really create that kindof change or benefit that community.
So we're trying to make thoseresources available for those farmers
and those communities and do it ina way that we can quantify those
results and those results to us.
Those multiple SDGs that we'retrying to track and improve upon.
Those results are always startingwith that farm, their immediate
(12:48):
community, their family, andthen their outlying community.
So if we're helping one farmer,hopefully we're able to equate that
to 10 more people that had a knockon positive effect from the work that
we're doing and the work that we'redoing, the outreach we're doing.
Where we're directly working, which isKenyan, NTB, Indonesia, we have our anchor
partners and they're there in the fieldworking directly with these farmers.
(13:14):
Amazing.
I think that's a great, um, approach.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Um, you know, one of the big tensionsthat we see currently is, um, climate
justice and the rise of carbon offset.
Yeah.
So I just wanna know from yourperspective, right, where do
you see offset going wrong.
(13:34):
I mean, and how, yeah.
Yeah, so we're, there's two things there.
I mean, with carbon, with offsets,I think they need to be redefined.
I think they need to be, they'renot a license to believe.
If organizations want to get to net zero,they are a lot of ways to get to net zero
before they start looking at offsets.
I think planning trees and all theworld's arable land isn't gonna
(13:56):
make a huge difference if you'renot looking at a holistic approach.
I think you can't just measure positiveimpact by CO2 per ton reduced that.
It's more than that.
Um, so you do have to reallyincorporate multiple SDGs and how
you're infecting these communitiesand creating opportunities and getting
people, uh, with, uh, social mobility.
(14:17):
Um, you know, giving them access tothe resources and tools and amplifying
their voices and letting them havethe opportunities that everybody else
should be having.
Uh, and is that part of your equationwhen you think of an offset, or
are you just some big extractor?
You know, Kenya right now is a huge marketfor carbon offsets and how much of that
is really going back to the community.
(14:37):
So we are trying to set a newstandard and the way to do that.
I think we are mixing in withWeb3 because of the fact that it's
so transparent using a ledger.
So our idea is that everything is,should be fully transparent and
third party validated, and we havea burn mechanism that's codified.
So, uh, it's very clear what we'redoing and who's the beneficiary and
(14:59):
what, uh, that offset actually means.
And, and again, it's multiplethird party validation, so.
I think offsets there is a place for them.
If people truly wanna achievenet zero, I think an offset is a
possibility to make that happen.
But I think that they need tobe redefined and I think they
need to be much more stringent.
(15:20):
And I think there needs to be, I wouldn'tsay regulation, but there just has
to be a much higher standard and moreeducation around them specifically.
And that.
Above all, if you're going into nationsand you're doing offsets that the
communities, the people within thoseregions are the beneficiaries and not
the ones that are being extracted from.
And then when we talk aboutclimate justice, I think there's
(15:42):
a real huge misunderstanding.
You know, there's, it's very clear,like if you look at, just this weekend
you have these massive floods, lossof life in Pakistan and Pakistan
itself is responsible for 1% of CO2and, and, and the cause of, of climate
change, you know, uh, but yet they're thefirst ones that are getting the impact.
(16:04):
And that's true for so much of theglobal south for so many regions
that are building up right now.
So there's a really strange mixedopportunity if you're in a nation that's
being built up and they're achieving thismiddle class, they should absolutely have
the opportunity to have that middle class.
There's also an opportunity to do it in asustainable way, but not a punitive way.
(16:26):
You shouldn't be punitive to peoplewho wanna achieve middle class and
have the opportunity and the resourcesand all the things that other
nations had previously and abused andcaused so much waste and pollution.
You shouldn't
penalize people who are now gettinginto that class system, whether it be
Brazil or China or East Africa or WestAfrica, anywhere that they're rising
(16:51):
and they're getting into this middleclass and have these opportunities that
all these other nations had previously,they shouldn't be penalized and not
be able to have them because of whattheir CO2 would be if they became middle
class, if they became higher consumers,if they became higher meat eaters
I think there's a way to do and be asmart city builder and look at natural
(17:11):
based solutions that you can make thingsbetter in those nations, but you should
definitely give all the people who wannabe in this middle class or this higher
bracket of a higher standard of living,absolutely deserve to have that higher
standard of living and not be penalizedbecause of one third of the world who
wanted to take and keep all the resources.
So social justice, climate change andclimate resilience, they're absolutely
(17:35):
contextual and aligned and and in sync.
And if people don't understandthe connection between the two,
they really don't understand theproblem that we're facing today.
Okay.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
So do you think that probably we need to,you know, create awareness around this?
I mean, education is always a, a goodstarting point and, uh, you know, there's
(17:56):
great organizations out there that areeither helping you with understanding
your carbon footprint or there's coursesthat you can take, you know, around, uh,
sustainable development or looking at,say, the Club of Rome and Earth for All.
And they do clearly define the factthat if you're not eradicating poverty,
if you're not creating equality andinclusion in your formula for um.
(18:17):
Combating, uh, climate change,then you're not really looking
at the problem completely.
So, uh, education is always, uh, a keyto help unravel and unpack all of this.
For many, you know, when we look atthe, the issues that we're facing,
sometimes it's just all too overwhelmingand there's just too many pieces to it.
So absolutely, education and resourcesare a good part of that, but you also
(18:39):
have to give people, I think, a trackto make action that's more significant.
Then say, planting a tree or reusing abottle or bringing a cloth back to the
sea market, and all those things aregood, but they shouldn't be considered
like a pass that they did their part.
We all have to dig in a little bitdeeper, I think, if we're really gonna
face the root problem so that we'reall facing as a global society today
(19:03):
and this into the next generation.
Okay.
Thank you for sharing that.
So I'm just a little bit conf,um, should I say confused?
You know, so this is not exactlymy field, but I just wanted to get
something issue because, you know, wesee a, a whole lot of, um, planting of
trees, um, saying that this is goingto help us with the climate change.
(19:23):
So you're saying that
um, this doesn't exactly solve theproblem, and there is more to do.
Is that,
um, yeah, I'm saying listen, I, andagain, there's, there's a saying, right?
So when I worked with Jane Goodall, uh,roots and Shoots, and she does her speech
and she says, you know, it's better tolight a candle than to curse the dark.
So it's better to light acandle than to curse the dark.
(19:45):
And planting a tree is a smallstep in the right direction.
Okay?
But I think.
That if you think that you'veplanted a tree and that you've did
your part for combating climatechange and you were absolved from
doing anything else or learninganything else more or participating
in anything else, and you could justbe a consumer and do what you want.
(20:06):
I think that there is a bit ofignorance there and there is a bit
of kind of being, uh, turning a blindeye when you really can't anymore.
Um, the reality is, is the data saysthat if we planted trees in all the
arable land that existed, it stillwouldn't be significant enough to
combat the climate change and the CO2increase that we're looking at globally.
(20:28):
That's a hard truth.
However, if we target, like forexample, when we talk about planting
trees, what I'd like to see today,I'd like to see urban settings
going crazy, planting trees.
You wanna talk about heatand problems in cityscapes.
If everybody planted trees withinan urban setting and looked at more
natural based solutions in the cities.
(20:49):
Then we have something to look at.
But uh, as far as just filling uparable land with trees, uh, especially
if you're doing it in a monocroppingway and you're not specifically
rewilding, no, that's not enough.
If you have a small community andpart of that community is just
at risk of flood or, or is beingmisused planting trees there
is absolutely a great initiative,but that alone isn't enough.
(21:13):
Like if you have a protected space andyou're doing agroecology, that's good,
but you can't just have one type of tree.
I. Forest a whole region that way.
Uh, so it, you know,it's, it's, it's a layer.
Uh, but yes, I, I would say that Ihave to stick by the fact that yes,
if you think you're just plantinga tree and you've done enough for
the environment that you're okay,no, it's, it's really not enough.
(21:36):
No.
Okay.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
I'll definitely keep that in mind myself.
Right.
So.
So you've said, um, multiple SDGs anda holistic approach are the only real
part to climate resilience, right?
So can you share how agroregeneration is within these
connections together on the ground?
(21:59):
Well, we're trying to eradicate poverty.
Poverty by creating opportunities forour farmers, get them on a higher value
chain with their crops, getting them moreopportunities to resources that maybe they
didn't know that they had, whether it belocal NGOs or government grants or loans.
Um.
Education, financial education,uh, resources within reason.
(22:20):
We don't wanna just begifting or rewarding.
I mean, there is a reward element,but it's not just about rewards,
it's about, uh, resilience.
So eradicating poverty.
Yeah, equality.
Making sure there'sopportunities for youth.
Uh, so they have opportunities,especially in certain regions of where
they were, were working, where it'ssuch a high youth population and there
just aren't enough opportunities.
(22:42):
For them, uh, for employment,for growth, for social mobility.
So is there youth initiatives?
Yes.
Is there equality for men and women?
Yes.
We're trying to encompass that.
Is there a focus on eradicating poverty?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Are we focused on the landand ecology and soil health?
Yes.
So already right there, that's likefour STGs that we're talking about.
(23:03):
Obviously we're focused on foodsecurity, um, and we're focused on.
Um, making sure we're nottrying to be land acquisition.
We, we wanna make sure that theancestral owners of land are the very
least the stewards of that same land.
Um, and we'd like to see thempotentially have that land,
but we're not gonna go there.
We wanna make sure that we're supportingthe small land owners and the land
(23:25):
stewards who are working within theselands, and if we can find opportunities
to get ancestral landowners backto working those lands, then yes.
So those right there is justfour or five SDGs in itself.
So that's how we're doing it, is by theground, by working with these farmers,
but at a community level, um, and notjust saying, um, here's a seed, here's
(23:46):
a tree, you know, we'll get back to you.
Or here's a one-off reward.
Good luck.
You know?
Um, so that's what I say when, uh, we're,we're encompassing multiple s teachers.
All right?
So if we move fast forwardto, let's say, um, 10 years.
What does, what does an inclusiveclimate resilient agriculture
(24:07):
system looks like to you?
I mean, what does it look like to you?
What's one Well,
okay, go ahead.
Permaculture, permaculture, no pesticides.
Food security.
Uh, more biochar, more roads, moreinfrastructure, smart cities to move
more alignment with natural systems asopposed to just trying to conquer systems.
(24:27):
Like a simpler approach, but using itin a way, using that ancestral knowledge
through with technology for advancement.
So we're not just trying toreplace natural systems with
technology, but integrate them.
That's where I see, you know, andthe ones that are most resilient.
I don't wanna see these bigswaths of populations in the
planet just unusable or unlivable.
(24:49):
So, uh, fighting back desertificationand just making sure that the
communities are thriving everywhere.
Okay, so what's, what's that one step thatour listeners can take today, you know,
to help us move closer to that future?
Well, you know, a little bit ofeducation, understanding where
their food comes from, their farmer,you know, like looking at mm-hmm.
(25:10):
Just more simpler techniques.
Alternatives to pesticides for one,understanding that monocropping isn't the
way, you know, if you're monetizing yourfarm or you're involved in offsets, you
know, uh, where is there efficacy there?
Is it just a payday?
You know, basically, I'd say s the hard.
Questions and understand where yourrole in all this is and that we all,
(25:31):
when we talk about food security,we all are connected, you know?
Um, where are you sourcingwhat you're getting?
Do you wanna know?
Uh, you know, so I would say, you know,especially when it comes to your foods and
the choices that you make as a consumer, Iwould say ask yourself the hard questions.
And then two, I would say, you know,reduce, it's not about recycling,
(25:52):
uh, as much as it is reducing.
All right.
Thank you so.
So much.
You know what I love about today'sconversation is, is just how it reminds us
that climate solutions aren't just aboutthe policies or the carbon markets, right?
They're basically about people.
Correct.
(26:12):
Absolutely.
So
yeah, farmers, you know,especially the smallholder
farmers, us, they are major parts.
They're not just the stakeholders,they are, I, I, I consider them
as the heartbeat of agriculture.
Absolutely.
Climate resilience.
Right.
So, and of course your work atRegenerations, um, really just
shows what's possible when inclusionis just, should I say more than.
(26:39):
Buzzword now.
Right?
So, you know when systems are designedwith the farmers at the center, right?
And we hold ourselves accountable, um,against greenwashing, I think it's really
just going to help us go a long way.
So if there is one takeawayfrom today, it's this building.
(27:01):
Climate resilience requires a holisticlens connecting the dots across food.
Equity and justice, and most importantly,it requires listening to the very
people that are growing our food.
Thank you so much.
No, thank you.
I think I got cut off there for a second.
(27:22):
I'm gonna go and I so appreciate itand I wish you the best and, you know,
let's, hopefully we could circle backin a few months and, uh, you know, to
all your listeners, it's great stuff.
I really appreciate this podcastand the work that you're doing and,
uh, let's all just keep, keep doingwhat we can and, and remember it's
gonna, you know, it's a community.
We're all gonna have towork together to get there.
(27:42):
Thank you so much, and to ourlisteners, we hope you're leaving this
episode with a fresh perspective andsomething to reflect on in your work.
Until next time, thank you.
Take care.
I remain you humble.
Bye.
Thank you so much all.
Beautiful people.
Indeed.
That is one of my biggest pleasureis always when I went to my own farm.
So I think it's important to firstunderstand what a healthy relationship
with food is for us to know what it's not.
Not trying to, I can relate.
I can relate selfish.
So you could be your own farmer for.
Who knows.
(00:21):
Trust.
Trust me when I tell you, therewill always be challenges,
there will always be risks.
Seems like we have a lot in common.
Welcome to the Lets Talk Agriculturepodcast show, and of course it's
your favorite girl show here.
Agriculture is often at the heartof climate conversations, you know,
(00:42):
but not always at the center ofclimate solutions, you see farmers,
especially the small holders, theycarry the weight of climate shocks.
While policies, carbon marketsand the big pledges are made
far away from their fields.
So in today's episode, we are exploringwhat it really means to put farmers
(01:03):
first in the fight for climate justice.
And to do that, we are joined byMichael Jones, the co-founder and the
lead active at Agro Regenerations.
So they're working across EastAfrica, Kenya, and Indonesia.
So Michael work challenges the waywe think about equity, inclusion,
(01:27):
and even the so-called solutionsthat sometimes leave farmers behind.
Michael, welcome to the podcast.
I mean, it's great to have you.
We have, we've had so much back and forth.
No, it's great to finally get together.
I really appreciate it and I'm a big fan,so thanks so much for having me, and these
are definitely very key and importantsubjects that are too often overlooked.
(01:50):
Great.
I'm glad you are here to havethis, um, conversation now.
So, you know, let's, let's startwith your journey, really, right?
So,
yeah, sure.
Absolutely.
So we're, we're a globalinitiative, right?
We're focused on regenerativesystems, uh, initiatives using open
source tools specific exactly forsmall farmers and land stewards.
We're trying to measure carbon sink value,nutrition value through regenerative
(02:12):
practices, and kind of a full systemsaudit, while also redefining and creating
a new standard for offsets, I don'teven wanna say carbon offsets, but for
offsets that are always gonna be thecommunities and the farmer, and these land
stewards and the ancestral landowners.
First, whether it be the individualor their community or their
region or their nation shouldbe the benef, uh, benefactor.
(02:36):
And, you know, they're not, it's not aboutgreenwashing at all, and it's definitely
not a license to pollute, um, and whatwe're talking about is the people who
are most at risk uh, to climate change.
So really we need to getinto climate resilience.
We need to understand that food security,uh, relies so heavenly outside of
a few nations, so heavily on smallfarmers and individual farm holders,
(03:00):
not just for their households andtheir communities, but really globally,
and they're so often left behind.
Um, so that's our focus, uh, is thesmall farm holders and we're just doing
everything we can to try to amplifytheir voice and put them first in
everything that we're trying to do.
Alright, thank you for sharing that.
But I think I didn't really get sowhat I was really, uh, expecting,
(03:25):
right so I just wanted to know.
No go Ahead.
What really made you to get rightinto this part of work that you do?
I know why people found.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I grew up in cities, right?
But as a kid, I was always actuallyvery strangely drawn and passionate
about horticulture and got come onmy hands dirty as best as I could.
(03:47):
Uh, but I didn't say I wouldn't, I didn'tgrow up on farms or anything like that.
And then through my journey, uh, youknow, I think it started to really, uh
cement itself after spending significantamount of years in China and, and living
through that kind of air pollution.
And we just kind of naturally createdsome of these natural based solutions
and we created like air purifyingsystems using vegetation and we did
(04:11):
upcycled garden spaces and you know,we did everything we could through
education, um, to kind of tackle theair pollution, what we were living with.
And I got more involved I think withdifferent ways of creating action
and carbon accounting and when thatwas still kind of a new field we're
talking about 10 and 15 years ago.
(04:32):
And then I think when carbon accountinggot a little bit better as far as
understanding your own carbon footprint,I think that realization that a lot
of the world has hit now too, thathow much of our diet and the choices
we make, not just as consumers, butas in our diet consumption, how much
that is our carbon footprint andjust how much power that has and.
(04:53):
Kind of how everything comes backto, uh, the table and, and where that
food comes from and just, I thinkafter being in these big cities and
especially China of just wanting toget back to the source a little bit.
And then just prior to the, the Panton,I spent some time in Indonesia with my
wife and we were working with farmers andcommunity outreach with the universities
(05:14):
and the parks departments, and weare doing these workshops and working
with farmers, and I think I started tounderstand things a little bit better, but
also understand what the pain points wereand why a lot of this kind of innovation
and these farmer initiatives didn'twork and how we can do it differently.
And then just through the course ofdifferent projects that I was doing
with Web3 for good and refi cohortsand things of that nature, and meeting
(05:39):
and working with other people, it justbecame very clear that there was a real
solution that needed to be presentedand I just, all of a sudden, a lot of
the, the locks and the cylinders kindof lined up and it just made sense
that we might be able to offer a bettersolution through the 20, 25 years I've
been abroad and the ecosystem and networkthat I'd already created and my Web3
(06:03):
background and my Web3 for good and myRed Cross background and all that stuff.
I was like, you know what?
I'm already doing all theseinitiatives with NGOs.
We're already doing stuff forcarbon literacy and education.
Let's do it, you know, handson more with the farmers.
And we kind of came up with this ideaof agri regenerations and the specific
goals and how we wanted to do it.
(06:23):
And we kind of got started mapping,uh, early last year I took a
parental leave and then since thisspring we've been the same team.
It's me and, uh, three otherco-founders, a brother and sister from
Kenya, and then a, a woman and, and.
FinTech from Bangladesh has also,uh, spends a lot of time in the uk.
And as a founder herself, uh, we, wejust joined forces and just went forward.
(06:48):
And even when I was away onparental leave, they just kept
quietly mapping and growing.
And then since this spring we'vejust taken off, we've really hit the
ground running and it's just beenscale and grow and scale and grow and
it's been amazing, but it's alwayswith the farmer first and working with
them as we're learning and growing.
Thank you so much forsharing your journey.
(07:08):
I think that's really an amazing one.
And then seeing that you have amazingwomen, you know, as part of your team,
you know, when, when women are involved.
Yeah, it's, it's just like you said, Imean, you went on parent to leave and then
they are left with handling things andof course things are still working well.
So I'm really glad that,um, this, um, collaboration.
(07:30):
Of course with a different country,different, um, culture as well
can still help to, you know, growwhat you are building, right?
Oh, absolutely.
I Mean, mm-hmm.
To jump in, I mean, two ofour co-founders are women.
My wife is also a huge, you know,advisor to this and has amazing
credentials and, and water researchmanagement and carbon literacy and the
(07:50):
educational and charity side of things.
But also we just onboarded our systems.
Uh.
And all of our systems alignment rightnow, uh, who's kind of taking over all
the tech side of it, is this superstar,you know, 20 something year old young
woman from, uh, who's just finishingup her master's at the University
of Birmingham Deepa, and she's kindof now taken over all of our tech.
(08:13):
And it's this great to be workingwith these young people, but also,
uh, you know, to have women onthe team that are just, I mean.
It's almost seems silly to highlightthere, uh, because I, you know,
would you do that with a man?
It's, it's very, it's a funny placeto be in, but it's, I'm so honored and
thankful that I've got, uh, we've gotsuch a well-balanced team with older
(08:36):
and younger and women and differentparts of the globe represented it and
different perspectives, but we've got someamazing people really leading the way.
Well, yes, I'm glad to hear that.
I really appreciate the work that you do.
It's really commendable and ofcourse, I mean, you are having
(08:59):
women, young people on your team.
I think it's, it's really a game changerand I look forward to seeing how, how
well our regeneration is just gonna grow.
I'm definitely, yeah, my eyes out now.
I mean, I.
Well, you know, we were meant tostart our one year pilot for the
Autumn Equinox, even though a lot ofour work is on the equator, right?
(09:21):
We're in Kenya and sprawling inEast Africa, and then NTB with
Lambuk and Sumbawa Indonesia.
And we were trialing right now, uh, whilewe're built out our dashboard and we're
ready to do a full one year pilot, uh,starting with the autumn Equinox between
September 21st and September 23rd.
In just the past three weeks, we werehoping to onboard about 40 farmers
to kind of try things out and inthose three weeks, we've jumped up
(09:44):
to, now we're under, our purview is3000 hectares and over 600 farmers,
and we've done that all organically.
And we've got two NGOs that are UDPbacked, two large mangrove restoration
sites that are well established.
We're sprawling into areas thatare doing war recovery zones.
Uh, we've got innovators and experts,but then we also have our farmer
(10:07):
communities that we're working with.
And it's just really gone crazy.
Even though we're small.
Like if you look at our LinkedIn, youknow, we're at like 450 people today.
It's not a lot, but that's threetimes what we were four weeks ago.
So it's really, it's really kind oftaking shape and, and it's now getting
past kind of this proof of concept.
(10:27):
We're ready to scale and we'reready to really, really run with it.
Amazing.
I'm looking forward to it.
I mean, we are now connected, so Idefinitely keep my eyes out for you, So,
uh, you talk a lot about the farmer's bestapproach, you know, so beyond that race.
What does that actuallylook like in practice?
(10:49):
You know, especially with thecommunities that you've worked with.
Well, so we're talking about, uh,for example, like the carbon offset
and you see these, these offsetinitiatives and things like that.
So one thing that's very popular anda way to do that is through biochar.
So when we say farmers first,like what we're doing right now is
trialing out a small biochar kilnthat could be built semi permanently,
(11:14):
like it should last for years withmodest maintenance for individual
farmers that at about a price point.
For most of, uh, east and West Africaof about 10 US dollars per unit
to build possibly less, and we're
prototyping, how we can share thatinformation to have those built and
that we could scale them for allthe farmers that we're working with.
(11:38):
And then they control their own biomass.
They're burning it, they're able tomanage their own, uh, organic waste
on their farms, and then they're alsogetting that biochar for their fertilizer.
For their use, for their treeseedlings, for their gardens.
So when we do initiatives, whetherit be biochar, whether it be we're
doing like a, we're part of a mushroomconsortium, whether we're growing oyster
(12:01):
farms or upcycled mushrooms, you know,we're trying to control the spawns.
We're trying to make sure that that thebiochar that's being produced is all
done at the individual farmer level.
We're trying to make sure that we'recreating opportunities for young people
and for women, and that that's why wesay generations because if you just
have farmers showing up for a free lunchand trying to get a one-off reward,
(12:23):
you're not gonna really create that kindof change or benefit that community.
So we're trying to make thoseresources available for those farmers
and those communities and do it ina way that we can quantify those
results and those results to us.
Those multiple SDGs that we'retrying to track and improve upon.
Those results are always startingwith that farm, their immediate
(12:48):
community, their family, andthen their outlying community.
So if we're helping one farmer,hopefully we're able to equate that
to 10 more people that had a knockon positive effect from the work that
we're doing and the work that we'redoing, the outreach we're doing.
Where we're directly working, which isKenyan, NTB, Indonesia, we have our anchor
partners and they're there in the fieldworking directly with these farmers.
(13:14):
Amazing.
I think that's a great, um, approach.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
Um, you know, one of the big tensionsthat we see currently is, um, climate
justice and the rise of carbon offset.
Yeah.
So I just wanna know from yourperspective, right, where do
you see offset going wrong.
(13:34):
I mean, and how, yeah.
Yeah, so we're, there's two things there.
I mean, with carbon, with offsets,I think they need to be redefined.
I think they need to be, they'renot a license to believe.
If organizations want to get to net zero,they are a lot of ways to get to net zero
before they start looking at offsets.
I think planning trees and all theworld's arable land isn't gonna
(13:56):
make a huge difference if you'renot looking at a holistic approach.
I think you can't just measure positiveimpact by CO2 per ton reduced that.
It's more than that.
Um, so you do have to reallyincorporate multiple SDGs and how
you're infecting these communitiesand creating opportunities and getting
people, uh, with, uh, social mobility.
(14:17):
Um, you know, giving them access tothe resources and tools and amplifying
their voices and letting them havethe opportunities that everybody else
should be having.
Uh, and is that part of your equationwhen you think of an offset, or
are you just some big extractor?
You know, Kenya right now is a huge marketfor carbon offsets and how much of that
is really going back to the community.
(14:37):
So we are trying to set a newstandard and the way to do that.
I think we are mixing in withWeb3 because of the fact that it's
so transparent using a ledger.
So our idea is that everything is,should be fully transparent and
third party validated, and we havea burn mechanism that's codified.
So, uh, it's very clear what we'redoing and who's the beneficiary and
(14:59):
what, uh, that offset actually means.
And, and again, it's multiplethird party validation, so.
I think offsets there is a place for them.
If people truly wanna achievenet zero, I think an offset is a
possibility to make that happen.
But I think that they need tobe redefined and I think they
need to be much more stringent.
(15:20):
And I think there needs to be, I wouldn'tsay regulation, but there just has
to be a much higher standard and moreeducation around them specifically.
And that.
Above all, if you're going into nationsand you're doing offsets that the
communities, the people within thoseregions are the beneficiaries and not
the ones that are being extracted from.
And then when we talk aboutclimate justice, I think there's
(15:42):
a real huge misunderstanding.
You know, there's, it's very clear,like if you look at, just this weekend
you have these massive floods, lossof life in Pakistan and Pakistan
itself is responsible for 1% of CO2and, and, and the cause of, of climate
change, you know, uh, but yet they're thefirst ones that are getting the impact.
(16:04):
And that's true for so much of theglobal south for so many regions
that are building up right now.
So there's a really strange mixedopportunity if you're in a nation that's
being built up and they're achieving thismiddle class, they should absolutely have
the opportunity to have that middle class.
There's also an opportunity to do it in asustainable way, but not a punitive way.
(16:26):
You shouldn't be punitive to peoplewho wanna achieve middle class and
have the opportunity and the resourcesand all the things that other
nations had previously and abused andcaused so much waste and pollution.
You shouldn't
penalize people who are now gettinginto that class system, whether it be
Brazil or China or East Africa or WestAfrica, anywhere that they're rising
(16:51):
and they're getting into this middleclass and have these opportunities that
all these other nations had previously,they shouldn't be penalized and not
be able to have them because of whattheir CO2 would be if they became middle
class, if they became higher consumers,if they became higher meat eaters
I think there's a way to do and be asmart city builder and look at natural
(17:11):
based solutions that you can make thingsbetter in those nations, but you should
definitely give all the people who wannabe in this middle class or this higher
bracket of a higher standard of living,absolutely deserve to have that higher
standard of living and not be penalizedbecause of one third of the world who
wanted to take and keep all the resources.
So social justice, climate change andclimate resilience, they're absolutely
(17:35):
contextual and aligned and and in sync.
And if people don't understandthe connection between the two,
they really don't understand theproblem that we're facing today.
Okay.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
So do you think that probably we need to,you know, create awareness around this?
I mean, education is always a, a goodstarting point and, uh, you know, there's
(17:56):
great organizations out there that areeither helping you with understanding
your carbon footprint or there's coursesthat you can take, you know, around, uh,
sustainable development or looking at,say, the Club of Rome and Earth for All.
And they do clearly define the factthat if you're not eradicating poverty,
if you're not creating equality andinclusion in your formula for um.
(18:17):
Combating, uh, climate change,then you're not really looking
at the problem completely.
So, uh, education is always, uh, a keyto help unravel and unpack all of this.
For many, you know, when we look atthe, the issues that we're facing,
sometimes it's just all too overwhelmingand there's just too many pieces to it.
So absolutely, education and resourcesare a good part of that, but you also
(18:39):
have to give people, I think, a trackto make action that's more significant.
Then say, planting a tree or reusing abottle or bringing a cloth back to the
sea market, and all those things aregood, but they shouldn't be considered
like a pass that they did their part.
We all have to dig in a little bitdeeper, I think, if we're really gonna
face the root problem so that we'reall facing as a global society today
(19:03):
and this into the next generation.
Okay.
Thank you for sharing that.
So I'm just a little bit conf,um, should I say confused?
You know, so this is not exactlymy field, but I just wanted to get
something issue because, you know, wesee a, a whole lot of, um, planting of
trees, um, saying that this is goingto help us with the climate change.
(19:23):
So you're saying that
um, this doesn't exactly solve theproblem, and there is more to do.
Is that,
um, yeah, I'm saying listen, I, andagain, there's, there's a saying, right?
So when I worked with Jane Goodall, uh,roots and Shoots, and she does her speech
and she says, you know, it's better tolight a candle than to curse the dark.
So it's better to light acandle than to curse the dark.
(19:45):
And planting a tree is a smallstep in the right direction.
Okay?
But I think.
That if you think that you'veplanted a tree and that you've did
your part for combating climatechange and you were absolved from
doing anything else or learninganything else more or participating
in anything else, and you could justbe a consumer and do what you want.
(20:06):
I think that there is a bit ofignorance there and there is a bit
of kind of being, uh, turning a blindeye when you really can't anymore.
Um, the reality is, is the data saysthat if we planted trees in all the
arable land that existed, it stillwouldn't be significant enough to
combat the climate change and the CO2increase that we're looking at globally.
(20:28):
That's a hard truth.
However, if we target, like forexample, when we talk about planting
trees, what I'd like to see today,I'd like to see urban settings
going crazy, planting trees.
You wanna talk about heatand problems in cityscapes.
If everybody planted trees withinan urban setting and looked at more
natural based solutions in the cities.
(20:49):
Then we have something to look at.
But uh, as far as just filling uparable land with trees, uh, especially
if you're doing it in a monocroppingway and you're not specifically
rewilding, no, that's not enough.
If you have a small community andpart of that community is just
at risk of flood or, or is beingmisused planting trees there
is absolutely a great initiative,but that alone isn't enough.
(21:13):
Like if you have a protected space andyou're doing agroecology, that's good,
but you can't just have one type of tree.
I. Forest a whole region that way.
Uh, so it, you know,it's, it's, it's a layer.
Uh, but yes, I, I would say that Ihave to stick by the fact that yes,
if you think you're just plantinga tree and you've done enough for
the environment that you're okay,no, it's, it's really not enough.
(21:36):
No.
Okay.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
I'll definitely keep that in mind myself.
Right.
So.
So you've said, um, multiple SDGs anda holistic approach are the only real
part to climate resilience, right?
So can you share how agroregeneration is within these
connections together on the ground?
(21:59):
Well, we're trying to eradicate poverty.
Poverty by creating opportunities forour farmers, get them on a higher value
chain with their crops, getting them moreopportunities to resources that maybe they
didn't know that they had, whether it belocal NGOs or government grants or loans.
Um.
Education, financial education,uh, resources within reason.
(22:20):
We don't wanna just begifting or rewarding.
I mean, there is a reward element,but it's not just about rewards,
it's about, uh, resilience.
So eradicating poverty.
Yeah, equality.
Making sure there'sopportunities for youth.
Uh, so they have opportunities,especially in certain regions of where
they were, were working, where it'ssuch a high youth population and there
just aren't enough opportunities.
(22:42):
For them, uh, for employment,for growth, for social mobility.
So is there youth initiatives?
Yes.
Is there equality for men and women?
Yes.
We're trying to encompass that.
Is there a focus on eradicating poverty?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Are we focused on the landand ecology and soil health?
Yes.
So already right there, that's likefour STGs that we're talking about.
(23:03):
Obviously we're focused on foodsecurity, um, and we're focused on.
Um, making sure we're nottrying to be land acquisition.
We, we wanna make sure that theancestral owners of land are the very
least the stewards of that same land.
Um, and we'd like to see thempotentially have that land,
but we're not gonna go there.
We wanna make sure that we're supportingthe small land owners and the land
(23:25):
stewards who are working within theselands, and if we can find opportunities
to get ancestral landowners backto working those lands, then yes.
So those right there is justfour or five SDGs in itself.
So that's how we're doing it, is by theground, by working with these farmers,
but at a community level, um, and notjust saying, um, here's a seed, here's
(23:46):
a tree, you know, we'll get back to you.
Or here's a one-off reward.
Good luck.
You know?
Um, so that's what I say when, uh, we're,we're encompassing multiple s teachers.
All right?
So if we move fast forwardto, let's say, um, 10 years.
What does, what does an inclusiveclimate resilient agriculture
(24:07):
system looks like to you?
I mean, what does it look like to you?
What's one Well,
okay, go ahead.
Permaculture, permaculture, no pesticides.
Food security.
Uh, more biochar, more roads, moreinfrastructure, smart cities to move
more alignment with natural systems asopposed to just trying to conquer systems.
(24:27):
Like a simpler approach, but using itin a way, using that ancestral knowledge
through with technology for advancement.
So we're not just trying toreplace natural systems with
technology, but integrate them.
That's where I see, you know, andthe ones that are most resilient.
I don't wanna see these bigswaths of populations in the
planet just unusable or unlivable.
(24:49):
So, uh, fighting back desertificationand just making sure that the
communities are thriving everywhere.
Okay, so what's, what's that one step thatour listeners can take today, you know,
to help us move closer to that future?
Well, you know, a little bit ofeducation, understanding where
their food comes from, their farmer,you know, like looking at mm-hmm.
(25:10):
Just more simpler techniques.
Alternatives to pesticides for one,understanding that monocropping isn't the
way, you know, if you're monetizing yourfarm or you're involved in offsets, you
know, uh, where is there efficacy there?
Is it just a payday?
You know, basically, I'd say s the hard.
Questions and understand where yourrole in all this is and that we all,
(25:31):
when we talk about food security,we all are connected, you know?
Um, where are you sourcingwhat you're getting?
Do you wanna know?
Uh, you know, so I would say, you know,especially when it comes to your foods and
the choices that you make as a consumer, Iwould say ask yourself the hard questions.
And then two, I would say, you know,reduce, it's not about recycling,
(25:52):
uh, as much as it is reducing.
All right.
Thank you so.
So much.
You know what I love about today'sconversation is, is just how it reminds us
that climate solutions aren't just aboutthe policies or the carbon markets, right?
They're basically about people.
Correct.
(26:12):
Absolutely.
So
yeah, farmers, you know,especially the smallholder
farmers, us, they are major parts.
They're not just the stakeholders,they are, I, I, I consider them
as the heartbeat of agriculture.
Absolutely.
Climate resilience.
Right.
So, and of course your work atRegenerations, um, really just
shows what's possible when inclusionis just, should I say more than.
(26:39):
Buzzword now.
Right?
So, you know when systems are designedwith the farmers at the center, right?
And we hold ourselves accountable, um,against greenwashing, I think it's really
just going to help us go a long way.
So if there is one takeawayfrom today, it's this building.
(27:01):
Climate resilience requires a holisticlens connecting the dots across food.
Equity and justice, and most importantly,it requires listening to the very
people that are growing our food.
Thank you so much.
No, thank you.
I think I got cut off there for a second.
(27:22):
I'm gonna go and I so appreciate itand I wish you the best and, you know,
let's, hopefully we could circle backin a few months and, uh, you know, to
all your listeners, it's great stuff.
I really appreciate this podcastand the work that you're doing and,
uh, let's all just keep, keep doingwhat we can and, and remember it's
gonna, you know, it's a community.
We're all gonna have towork together to get there.
(27:42):
Thank you so much, and to ourlisteners, we hope you're leaving this
episode with a fresh perspective andsomething to reflect on in your work.
Until next time, thank you.
Take care.
I remain you humble.
Bye.
Thank you so much all.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.