Bowl Chat - Special Guest Ben Mandelker!

Ben Mandelker from Watch What Crappens joins Andy and Scott for a special hybrid episode of Bowl Chat!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yet we're rolling live from the Farmland Fresh Dairy studios.
This is serial Killers.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
This is Serial Killers. I'm Scotty b oh yeah, and
our friend Ben Mendelkerr is here.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi. How's it going.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
We met Ben in Austin last month during the iHeartRadio
Podcast Awards and his podcast Watch. What Crappens was up
for was a pop Culture Best pop Culture.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Best pop Culture Podcast, and they won.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
We did not, So we've invited a winner on the
show today because we're just a bunch of giant losers.
And this is going to be an interesting hybrid type
of podcast because we're going to start it off as
a Serial Killers and then I have to get the
hell out here because I have an appointment. So we're
going to turn it into a bowl chat where you
guys will just chat and chat and chat about all
things Bravo that I know nothing about and board games.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
He also likes board games, So down to talk board games.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh I wish I didn't take that limited edition board
game home that General Mills sent us. You know General
Mills made uh yeah, the Lucky Charms mouse Trap game.
But what Yes, it's Lucky Charms Mousetrap and it's with
Lucky the Leprechaun instead of the Yeah, I'm sorry, I
stole it from my daughter Cooper.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
That's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Otherwise you guys could have played it.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It's probably it's probably better to be with Cooper.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, all right, so let's get rolling because, uh this
cereal is well. First of all, what cereals do you like?
You a sugar guy or you were like, what do
you like?

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, unfortunately, I'm at a place in my life where
I have to eat healthy cereal like Cashee, the Cashee
herty O's or whatever it's called, like the hearts. It's
like barely has any flavor and it purports to be
good for my heart. But I grew up eating honey
nut cheerios. That was like my go to. Then I
had a period of time where I ate life and

(01:40):
I've always loved Special Ki plainly. Last week, I have
to say this may be TMI, but I feel like
this is a place for sharing.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes it is.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Last week I had my first baby's first colonoscopy. I
I had to have a low fiber diet and they
said popped ry cereal and I said, I am eating
Special K this week. Congratulat I so much Special K.
I had it for like breakfast, I had it for
lunch because I love Special K.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
And yeah, and me being the big boy that I am,
refused to callon oscy and I just pooped in the
box the call of guard. You know that thing?

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, that's two different. I think it's I feel like
it's two different. Yeah, I guess kind of is.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
When my doctor said it was fine, and I'm all good,
So let's move on and need some healthy, crappy cereals.
So the one that I werelling to do one today
because this is abridged, the one that I chose for
us because you like healthy, is going to be a
disgusting cereal good this is This is one of the
Magic Spoon serials. Have you heard of them?

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Oh no, I haven't, But I like this hot daddy
on the on the front.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
What is that clip art you caught?

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Where's that cana cana?

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, there's like a muscle daddy on the front.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
So okay, So Magic Spoon is a line of cereals.
It started off just being sold on the internet. You
saw ads on Facebook all the time.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Like your podcast never was. So we're sponsored by farm
Lane for Daies think you so much Harmly Fresh dairies.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Oh can you eat cow's milk? Drink cows milk?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Perfect amazing, But like they sponsored a whole bunch of
stuff because they're like they're really leaning into like millennial
focused advertising. So they were on a ton of podcasts
like you want a Healthy Cereal Magic Spoon, but not
Cereal podcasts now. I think it's because we've trashed I
think four out of five of them.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
See, that's the one thing. I don't really think that
a cereal company could sponsor us because we would just
crap on them if we didn't like it, you know,
you know we we like to tell the truth and
tell things how it is, and if it's not good,
we're gonna say it's not good. So anyway, Magic Spoon
started as just internet only. Now you can get them
at Target, Walmart, big supermarkets and everything. And these are
like ten dollars a box.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Ten Well, Cereal has gone up in general, Mike, cos
it has, it has, so you have to that's a
lot of money to spend for not a lot of flavor.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Right, so this this is cinnamon roll flavor. We have
not had very good experience with Magic Spoon. Cereals. This
is probably like the six or seventh one, and I
think only one of them we did not spit out.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Okay, do they all have like some sort of muscled
ad on the front they all things?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, they all have the strange box, aren't like that?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
I don't know if we have any.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
I know, I think one of them has like Ursula,
but like their version of ursula, like a weird.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's ever like a gay that's working on the graphic Yeah, yes, right, yes,
and then it is canvying.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
And the bag is like only three quarters full. So
after all that, it's ten bucks for seven ounces of nothing.
So anyway, it.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Looks nice, yes, yeah, like the meaning like the it
looks like the graphic design person definitely was like they
just got out of college.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
They've got their first job. They're working at Magic Spoon.
They're doing the thing.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, they're trying.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
And I could tell you. The problem that we always
have with Magic Spoon is it it goes. It starts
off okay, and then once you have it in your
mouth for more than about five seconds, it turns to
complete horse craft.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
I've had Zeal do that.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, it has that weird taste.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Because it's grain free. Why are they proud that it's
grain free.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
I guess gluten free people like them or something.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So I'm gonna go back to the formula of Fresh
Dairy's fridge.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I'm going to inspect their their word, their word jumble
in the back.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
It's also too much like I mean, this is unappealing
to me, Like, give me three words, not twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
It's very moonshine. They have moonshine. This is a word here.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
It's a young hip cereal.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh pardner, that's spelled in the dialect version partner not partner.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
I'm trying to see if we have any Andrew.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
He won't let me.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I found moonshine, young moonshine.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, perfect, there's probably a better off with moonshine. But
we're using Farmland, Fresh Areas organic whole milk today.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh so, Ben, I'm excited, don't be Oh you already
milks mine? I milk.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's it smells. It smells a little bit like a
cinnamon roll.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
It's giving cinnamon right. It's looking yeah, it's looking vaguely
like I'm trying to mat they.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Look like fruit loops, but not fruity colored.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
It looks a little bit like you've got honey smacks
in there. Almost.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
But yeah, okay, okay, not bad, right, Yeah, keep chowing.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
This one might not turn.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I don't right right, my first bite is probably fine.
It's nice. It has more flavor than my cashi. I
feel like you.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Failed us on this one, Scott. I was expecting bad.
I got somewhat decent.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
That's fine.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, she's not bad.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
In fact, I like the airy texture.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
It is an interesting texture.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
I kind of like your podcast gets sponsored by Magic
Spoon after.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
We invite Magic Spoon to be a sponsor of Watcher Craps.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I mean, look, it's not spectacular, it's not incredibly sweet.
It tastes healthy, and it doesn't have that that after
Stevia slash bean crap taste that we get usually from
these type of cereals. So it's not horrific.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I would dare to say, I actually like it.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, wow, I like.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
It shockingly decent. I do you know a rating skill? No, okay,
so what we do is a bowl is like a
full star. A spoon is like a half a star.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Up to five balls. Yeah, so I'm simply going to
give it two balls because it's not as bad as
I thought, but I don't love these type of cereals.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
I'm going to give it three bowls in a spoon,
Like it's really not bad for a cinnamon cereal. She's
it's a nice alternative. Yeah, I think I like three
bowls in a spoon. Yeah, I think that's I think
that's just right. It's like, it's not a top tier.
It's definitely no special k No, it's not a honey
nut cheurio.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
And it doesn't have like the indulgent fun of a
frosted flake or like a cover above. I feel you
on that, but it's actually like quite tasty, and I
really do enjoy this airy texture. But would you go.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Pay ten bucks a bocks for this? Or are you
just gonna buy honey nut curios for a dollar ninety
nine when it's on sale you ten dollars?

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Ten dollars may actually knock it down, spoon.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, look at that. I don't do it by pricing.
But you know the.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Value is not great. But if we weren't considering value.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
I mean you can it's your rating.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I guess you know. I know I'm still gonna I'm
gonna rate it based on you know, because sometimes if
someone were to serve it to you, if you're at
someone's house and they're like, here's some cereal, you're not
considering values. I'm gonna Keep'm gonna keep it out of
three bowls on this moon.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
And this actually was served to us by one of
our listeners, Matt sent this to us, so we didn't
pay for it. So what the hell.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm finishing my entire my entire cup of cereal.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
That's I'm very impressed.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
For a party. Get you actually can take the match, Yes.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Please do, but make sure you guys take a picture first,
so listen, I get a bell. I'm so sorry. This
is a day where I just have a lot of
my plate. I feel like Andrew today were so busy,
so busy, lots of meetings, lots of schedule things. Uh
so I'm gonna go. You guys, do what you want. Yeah,
I mean, hey, feel free to dive into some of
the old rantid cereal. I won't do that, you know,
Try what you want, Maria. Yeah, that's yeah. It's been

(08:52):
sitting there for months and months and months, and it's
probably opened. The bag is ripped open. So just enjoy
the staleness. All right, so thank you so much. Thank
it was pleasure, absolutely pleasure to you.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
And next time he comes back, we'll do a full episode.
But now we'll go into more of a bull chat.
Hey do your thing great, you have a mic.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Now I'm going to take over this mic. Here.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
All I do is press the stop record button.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Well, you just press the stop and then just title
it with this keyboard here, okay, and then enter and
it'll save it.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I'll sunday. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
I take my little cups here for Oh wow, you're
actually taking things home.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
That's a surprise. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Nice, Okay, great, bye Scott, Bye Scott, we'll miss you.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
You guys can just go ahead talk.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
I think I forgot something.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Okay, well great, awesome, okay, So a huge fan of
the podcast.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Thank you very much. Ten out of ten, thank you.
And you've been doing it for ten years twelve years? Twelve? Yes,
oh wow, that is a whole bag of marshmallows, I can. Yeah,
that's wild. Yeah, we've been doing watcher crappings for twelve years.
We started in yeah, twenty twelve. Wow, which is wild.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
I know it's crazy. So, like, what made you want
to start like did you and Ronnie just hit it
off immediately?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Like where'd you guys meet? Yeah, So I used to blog.
That's like my origin story is blogging. I started a
bloger twenty years ago with my friend and the blog
it was called tv Gasm, and we used to write
recaps of TV and at that time, no one was
doing TV recaps and so it was like it became
it really blew up and wound up actually selling the blog,

(10:24):
which is wild. That was really the peak of like
what everyone was like, Wow, blogs, What's this new exciting
thing that's gonna be here forever. So we were able
to cash. So then we were now like official bloggers
and we were like, you know, we were working. We
were bought by Beata Murray Productions, which did like the
Real World and the Challenge and all that stuff, and

(10:47):
so now we needed to like build out our blogging
staff and so we had we sort of like put
out the word like, hey, submit to write, and so
Ronnie he submitted and his sample was really good. So
he started writing for TV gasm. And he lived in
La so I'd met him a few times and he
was really cool, really funny. So that's how we met

(11:08):
and then fast forward to twenty ten or eleven or so,
and I had left TV Gasm, I'd started a new blog,
and that new blog, I had started to blog about
the Real Housewives, and I got hired to host a
web show about the Real housewives called Housewives Hodown and

(11:28):
naturally I love that title. Yes, And so my job
as the host was that I always had to bring
on guests, and so I would bring on Ronnie because
I knew that he was covering the Real Housewives at
TV gasm and he's funny also, yeah, and so I'd
bring him on and we just had like a lot
of fun doing it. And also my friend Matt, I'd

(11:50):
bring him on, and the three of us always had
like really good chemistry. And then the web show, the
network that the web show was on, just went down,
and so but we still really enjoyed doing what we did.
So we thought, like, let's start a podcast.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, you know, and I feel like you were early
to the podcast game, like twelve years ago, like nobody
was doing podcasts yeah, or if they did, it was
like a we don't really know how to get it.
Hope for the best, like maybe we'll find it some
place like there were.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Definitely were podcasts enough that there was you know, the
Apple Podcasts store Ateah that time, it was like there
was a podcast action on iTunes and there were podcasts,
but it was really Cereal that made podcasting like a
thing that like everyone particular like Mainsture, it made it mainstream.
He made a thing that like a viable form of
entertainment for people. So yeah, we were I think maybe

(12:35):
about two years before Cereal. Cereal, Yeah, we started podcasting.
We invented it.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
I think you were actually the first podcast yeah for sure. Yeah, sure, yeah,
we came up with the word wow. Love that. So
what Housewives did you like? Would you say?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Is?

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I know Diamond touched on it, but what's like your
favorite version of the Housewives.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, I've always loved Ronnie. Ronney has always been my
absolute favorite, like number one. Like I just I think
Rony is It's just perfection and I've always loved it.
I don't love the new cast. I just don't think
that they have the right energy.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
The only one I've seen is this new one, and
I have to tell you, I was kind of like,
I don't really know what's going on here.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, I think that Bravo cast it to be like,
look at these these like five fabulous or six fabulous
women that you can be friends with, and like, I
don't want to be friends with my real housewives. Now.
I want to laugh at their delusion. I want to
like see them and say, how do these people exist
in a real world? How do these people go to
a restaurant and act like this? That's what I go.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
For for a real housewife.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Same, I don't go for like this is the real
New York like this is I want to like, Oh
my god, I just want to sit and watch fashion influencers.
I don't, I don't. I curse.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, I don't give a fuck. No, no, no, no,
Like when I watch reality TV, I feel like I
grew up in reality TV, like Flavor of Love, legit,
Like that was my eighth grade high school experience was
Flavor of Love. So for me, I'm like, the more delusional,
the better. So when it's not and you're trying to
make me feel who is coming through on this mic?

(14:09):
This is the fun part about these studios. We don't
know how they work. Hey Diamond, I can hear you
in here? Oh, I can hear you in here? No, no,
I can hear you, can hear you.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
She doesn't get it. You're a guest on Serial Killers
at the moment.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Hold on, maybe I move one of these two.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
I don't know about touching these yea.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
So this controls like all of New York in here,
and so I'm just casually like great, yeah, now, oh great,
it's fixed, amazing, exciting, great, Okay, so we're back to
the show. Amazing, show, fabulous, fun, little technical difficulties.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
By the way, should I be like looking at the
camera like well we talk or looking at some times
I look at that and I'm like, I don't. Then
I feel like i'm too It's like NPR, like the
NPR skit on SNL. I never saw that. Oh sorry baby, sorry.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
But yes, flavor of love. I want delusional I love
delusional reality people. I don't understand the trend of trying
to make them normalized, like they.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Are not normal. It's I think a lot of it
is that it's like it's shortsighted attempts to you know.
I think in the past few years, there's been obviously
a lot of discussion about giving terrible people platforms in
American culture and and the and the dangers that come
with that, which is I think a totally important thing

(15:38):
to discuss, and it's also very valid. We do not
want to be giving terrible people platforms because it's way
more insidious than we ever expected the ramifications of that.
That being said, for the Real House delusions, how about
we do more public service announcements like please don't like,
let's watch these people make fun of them and like,

(16:01):
let's not take any lessons from them. Okay, like let's not.
And I think what happened was that Bravo may have
tried to like pivot a little too hard into like
we're not gonna we don't we want to give like
fresh exciting faces a platform. Instead, it's like yeah, but
like make them delusion, make sure they're still delusional.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, you have to cast a delusion otherwise, like why
are we doing a show? Yeah, there's no point.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
We need to be able to make fun of them,
Like I just don't think that I'm tuning in to
to feel like these people are my friends. That being said,
I I have watched Tomorrow Night's Summer House, and I
can't say anything because it's embargoed, but I was definitely
watching along like they were my friends. I was sitting
there like with like my like my chin on my

(16:47):
on my wrist, just like giggling. Like every time Page
Disorbo made a joke, Page, I'm like, you know, you're
she's not talking to you, Ben right. So I can
aspire and I can blur those lives.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
But just once the summer comes around, they tape in
New York. You haven't been invited to a Summer House party.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
A years ago. I went to the Summerhouse in season two.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, So, so Ronny and I would watch for Crappins.
We do live shows, and the very first big live
show we ever did was here in New York City,
and that was during season one of Summerhouse, and we
invited Kyle Cook and so Kyle came with Amanda and
Christina Gibson who was on season one came, and Steven

(17:31):
who was on season one and two came. So the
four of them came to our live show, which is
really cool. And as it happened, after that live show,
I was going out to the Hamptons because my friends
have a house there which is very boogie, and I
was like a step into the boogie life. And so
I told them. I was like, yeah, I'm going out
to the Hamptons this weekend. They're like, oh, you gotta come
to the house. You gotta come house. I was like yes.
So we went to the house and like, were they filming?

(17:55):
They were filming. I'm proud to say I was fully
edited out of the footage deemed worthy. Damn. Yeah, but
it was great. It was so fun to be in
the summerhouse. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
They tried to do a reality show once years ago.
We're good Diamond, thank you the show. They tried to
do reality show years ago, and so like we were
miked for a scene and I was like, oh my god, Like,
where is this gonna go?

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Wait? What was the reality show that you were at? Oh?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
I can hear you again?

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Can I do these things?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
I don't know what that means? What does take out
of Q means? Oh, that's also doctor Brad, the foot
doctor from my feet are killing me. Oh, you never
know who's gonna stop y.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Does he do foot massages? Can I get a message?
Probably it's probably like insulting he's a doctor? Yeah, so true,
so true? Can I get a ful massage? Make it hurt?
Nice to meet you. I hear you do something with me?
Can I get a fit massage? Oh? I don't know.
This is a scary board. Sorry, we've learned things now.

(19:09):
Yeah we should have known.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
I'm not Union. I can't touch the board. Oh okay, sorry,
not a party, sag Aftra, thank you. So yeah, they
micd us. It was supposed to be a whole scene
and we were at a restaurant and I was supposed
to like bring up the scene if it was for Summerhouse. No,
this was for like the reality that they were going
to do of the Morning Show. Oh yes, like we
had cameras filming for like two weeks.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Never when this is a real basically yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
And it was like I just remember sitting in the restaurant.
I had to bring up like the plot because I
was Elvis's assistant, So I had to one of the
people we were out with, like she was planning her
own show, and they were.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Like, you have to say the line like Elvis is counting.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
On you, likely in the middle of like this lunch
that's going nowhere. I had to be like, you better
not mess up because Elvis is really worried about this show.
No wonder why it's on the cutting room floor, like
no drama whatsoever. Commercial break, commercial break.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I should have flipped the table, Yeah, you should have.
I mean it's interesting. So I've I've never been a
reality star, but i have I've like flirted with the
experiences like I was at I was at the Summer House. Yeah.
I did. A huge Big Brother fan even though the show,
I mean it's a terrible show. You're you know, you're safe.

(20:24):
But like Big Brother, what they used to do is
they would have like, uh, it's called media Day, and
they would invite members of the media into the Big
Brother House. This is like a like maybe like a
week or two weeks ahead of the season to promote
the show. They'd invite members of the media into the
Big Brother House and you'd spend the whole day there
and have like the Big Brother experience. And so you do,

(20:46):
like you'd all be in the house together. You do
like a Head of Household competition. You do like a
Veto competition. There's nominees all this stuff, and you're micd up.
You go into the diary room and at the end
they edit together a little episode. And so it was
obviously a dream come true for me to be in
the Big Brother House. I got to go in because
my friend Joe Adallion, who was a TV writer or critic,

(21:09):
he like like sort of sponsored me. He said, like, oh,
Ben's going to write something for whatever the publication was
that maybe it's like the rap I don't know, some
bizarre fine. So I got to go in and it
was so fun and I got to like be like
pretend to be a reality star for a day. It was.
It was so fun getting micd up, you know, and like,
so I did it two years in a row. In

(21:29):
the first year, I did it like as if I
were playing Big Brother, which was I was like pretty chill.
I didn't want to make a splash. And when I
watched the DVD, I was like, not on it. They
had me. I was like for like one diary room
and I was like, that's so wrong. So the second year,
I was like reality star and I was like, this

(21:50):
is how it happens, because you get that bug. Because
I went in the second season and I was like
loud and brash. I didn't care who overheard me strategizing.
I was like and I was all over that DVD
and I was like, I was like, people like I
don't know I was like, I was the bane of
people's existences and I'm in my mind I was Everyone's
probably like, oh man was very nice. You watch it

(22:11):
back and you're like, sorry, excuse me, I'm so sorry.
I just want to make a strategy.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Strategy with you?

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Can I make strategy? But like I totally could see
how that bug for like screen time, Yeah, takes over.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
For sure for I. Like, so I am a huge
Survivor fan, so r I was like.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I'm two episodes behind.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
I haven't watched anything since forty The episodes.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Are so long right now, Like I watched the first
two episodes of this season and they're both two hours long.
I'm like, we don't, Like it's a lot.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
I feel like that's what fans always wanted, but now
that they got it, it's like, did we really need it?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's just it's hard and like they have added so
many convoluted things, especially in the beginning of the season. It's like,
all right, people are going to go on a journey
and they go up to a mountaintop and one person
gets this, and one person gets that, and then this
there's this type of immunity in this advantage. That advantage
too much. Just let me play what in the movie itols.
That's fine, get.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Do that too too much? I so season thirty seven
and thirty eight, I was actually I made it to
finals casting like I was about to beat on it
and I got cut. But it was like you had
to stay isolated and by yourself for the casting, and
I disliked that immensely.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, they put you in a hotel, right, yeah that's
for a while. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
It was like a full week of just like by yourself.
You eat by yourself, you go to like producers meetings
and you're just there.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
It's like, yeah, what am I doing? This is scary? Yeah,
it's they gotta like get you through that. So that
way the didn't know if you're really My friend went
through that and he got all the way to the end.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
And then yes, Scott bowting, Yes, no, okay, I can
hear you though. Hey Scott, you're on speaker now.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt. I don't know about you guys,
but I now have like a film on the top
of my mouth. I've already had to drink two bottles
of water because whatever this cereal did to me, So
I might have to.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Amend my rating.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Oh okay, Oh wow, so you called into amend your rating? Okay,
go for it. Yeah, sure, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (24:08):
So?

Speaker 5 (24:08):
I'm pretty sure I gave it two balls. I need
to drop it down a spoon to a ball in
a spoon because of the after effects.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's all a film on your mouth.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, it seems a little critical. I'm not gonna lie.
I don't feel the film.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I don't have the film. No, no, I don't.

Speaker 5 (24:22):
Maybe maybe it interacts with my salaiva differently than it
does with yours. But if it happened to me, it
could happen to others, so they lose a spoon.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
It's well, thank you so much, Scott. We appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Take care. No bye, Wow, that's so bizarre. I don't
have any but I wonder I've been sort of sipping
this coffee. Maybe the coffee, the acid in the coffee
is dissolving the film.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I've literally had nothing.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
I really enjoyed that cereal and.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
It's been bad. Like the chocolate one is like not it,
not it? But that was decent. Yeah, I like a
decent one. But anyway, reality people not for me, no,
maybe one day, who knows, But for right now, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
It's like it's fun to visit. It's fun to visit
the world. Like I love seeing you know, I live
in La I love encountering a reality show shoot. I
feel like one of the most special things that ever
happened to me is that I once went to a
bar and Audrina was filming a scene for The Hills, Yeah,
and I was like, I got to be there. I
got to see a scene from the Hills being filmed,

(25:23):
Like that's that was at that time. That was the
dream to be somewhere and they were filming for The
Hills and I got to see her on a date
with Ryan Cabrera and I.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Was that was peak two thousands right there.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh my god, you don't even know what a dream
that was for me. Wow.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
So that one was fully scripted, though.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
So I think it was largely scripted. So from my
understanding of it was that the scenes and the scenarios
were scripted, but they what they actually said in them,
It was it was like it was like not scripted interactions.
I think that like that's a a thing with reality
TV I believe, is that obviously there's a good amount

(26:03):
of scripting and manipulation. But I think like the worst
reality shows are like truly all scripted, where where they're
really like their lines and there's all of it. It's
lines and you can tell and you can tell yeah,
because if these people were good actors, they wouldn't be
doing reality TV.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
So accurate right completely, Like yes, they definitely have. And
this is what I try and explain to people, especially
when it comes to like Real Housewives. There are storyboards,
like they know that point like this character throughout the
season is going through a divorce, So how is the
divorce going to interact with this?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yes? And how do we get from point A to
point B? And I've been told that like like, for instance,
certain shows, there's a show I heard about that a
producer like I think it was Jersey Delicious, Like I'm
so sorry, wow, Okay, it's like they decide they know
where they want the show to go and then they
work back where it's like, okay, how can we get

(26:56):
the characters to get to this place? Got it? And
so there is that, But I think that the best shows,
if it is scripted, like highly scripted, you don't see
the scene. So I actually really think the Real Housewives
are top tier because the interactions often feel very organic,
like some of the stuff they say in the confessionals
like you know it's planned, or like you also can

(27:20):
tell if maybe they said something and the producer said
that was really good. Can you kind of just like
say it like this instead or build tighter Like sometimes
I'll have them re say something.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
It's a show at the end of the day, so
you want the best product.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
But what I don't like is when it's literally just
so obvious that like this has been something that's been
written and these people like got a lot of the
a lot of like a lot of the shows on
E are like that are really high scripted, and they
sit there and they're like doing singsong e. It's like
it's like watching a sixth grade play and they're like
the other day, I was really upset with when she

(27:53):
said that. It makes me wonder, like is she even
a friend? I don't know?

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Okay, wait, so there was a show me and my
friend Miranda love watching one season. Wonder reality shows like
only one season give me the worst of the worst.
So Tinsley from the Housewives Right the Diamond was obsessed
with she had a show one season two thousand and eight.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, it was a highlight or something like that.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yes, have you ever seen it?

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Uh huh? It is so bad.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, when we're talking scripted, like there's just that random
woman Devora God, I forgot about that. Oh I've watched
it at least three times. Like that is we watch it?

Speaker 1 (28:33):
You know. The thing is that it's fantastic. It's the
celebrity reality shows that are the that are the biggest
defenders because celebrities actually have an image that they're trying
to protect and they so they are very like is
always highly high scripted, which is why I generally don't
watch the celebrity reality shows. But sometimes there are somewhere
like despite the scripting, like the weird shit comes through,

(28:55):
like Whitney and Bobby Brown when they had their show
that was like you were you cannot script Whitney Houston
asking Bobby Brown to like wipe off a dingleberry from
her ass, or Paula Abdul like sobbing through her show.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
I never liked either of those, but I do remember
the Whitney Houston one, the scene when they're in I
think the Las Vegas strip mall and they're like trying
on glasses and doing like the head bobbing thing. Ten
out of ten.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Those are both Bravo shows actually, which is the craziest
part really Bravo shows. There was like obviously the I
think the first big or maybe the first ever celebrity
reality show was The Osbourne's, which was such a big
team And I remember when that show ended and they
they did like a bit where it was like clear
that they were like saying lines that were and I
was like, I could not believe it. I thought it

(29:43):
was all.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
I thought, you guys were really doing these things.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
The Osborne's was such a thing. I think people forget
about that it was such a thing.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, it's like an early yeah, the first of its
kind in like the family style reality show that doesn't
didn't really exist before then.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
It was part of the first wave of a reality TV.
It was like you know, in that first from two
thousand to like two thousand and four or five, Yes,
that all those all everything was being thrown at the wall.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
This Surreal Life was my other personal.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Favorite love Surreal Life.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
That one also didn't feel scripted, like I can't. It
just felt like these people truly didn't know how they
got into this house, Yeah, and why they were there.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah. I wonder like, at what point did scripting become more,
like when did it really start to take over? Because
I know for sure by two thousand and five there
was a lot of scripting because I used to be
a segment producer on a show called Reality Rundown on
the Fox Reality Network. Oh okay, and so I'd have
to watch these awful reality shows, like a Ted Nugent
show or like just these random you've seen the worst

(30:43):
of the worst. Yeah, there was a show like Amy
Grant and like not good, not like Three Wishes or something.
It was like Amy Grant's like fixing Communities. I love that,
but just not Amy Grant. I was so happy to
do an Amy Grant show, but it was the show.
And there's like Lisa Lobe had like a dating show,

(31:03):
all these weird things.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
Oh, Morosa had a random one on like a public
access channel that people forget about.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I love a Morossa. I love her so much.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
She's a great reality villain.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Again.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
I think she plays it extremely well, like she knows
she has to be a character, but at the same time, like.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
So good at it, Like she's been doing that for
twenty years being Amerosa and I met her once and
like I just felt so connected to her. She was
the best, Like we were just like we liked hugged.
We just became friends and like I don't know if
she still follows me on Instagram. I don't know if
I don't know if she still remembers me. But like
I loved her, I loved I loved Amerosa.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
My question is just say Beverly Hills now, we talk
about like acting being too much, it kind of taints
the formula of the show. I feel like the Beverly
Hills now is just all actresses. Like I don't know
when that started, but I just don't feel like it
has sort of moved into like soap opera.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, you know, I'm okay with that because it does
represent a certain kind of miliea of nice word yeah,
thank you. I invented that too with podcasting.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Wow, the originator of a word no.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
But because there is like what's so interesting about Beverly
Hills is that there's this there is this like group
of people who were all like either child stars or
soap stars or just sort of like this mid pack
tier of actors you know that are like they're not
quite D lists, because I think reality stars are now
the D list. Yeah, but they're like they're definitely not

(32:39):
A lists and they're not really B lists. Like it's
like they do soaps, soaps pretty much, yeah, yeah, and
go back home. And then they're also connected. There's a
they're all connected. There's this an incestuous group of David
Foster and O J. Simpson and they and the Kardashians.
They all are connected. This all they're all really like

(33:02):
bound by that O. J. Simpson murder if you really
look at it, they're all connected to it.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
If there was one person then in the LA circle
that you think could be on that show, Like, so
there is no Teresa, there is nobody moving the plot forward.
Do you think that show needs someone like that there?

Speaker 1 (33:19):
I would like that. I think it needs it. I
think it needs like someone I think it needs a
little bit of an agitator disrupt her. You know, Brandy
was that for a little bit, and then.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
I think she leaned too hard into being an actress
and then didn't work for her.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
For Brandy Landville, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
I think she really just kind of, like I don't know,
fought her own hype and that's kind of what led
to the downfall.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Well, Brandy's downfall is that she's completely spiraling in the
wake of this whole thing going on with the girl's trip, Ye,
with the allegations with her and Caroline, and you know
she we've seen Brandy she's she's a mess, but like
she's sort of Brandy and she's like she's and Caroline
was like, I don't want to deal with that, Like

(34:02):
she's clearly Brandy was doing the Brandy thing and Carolina
did not want it whatsoever, which is totally within Caroline's
rights and Brandy. I think it seems like without seeing
the footage, knowing that Brandy should have just been like, Okay,
I went too far and I'm really sorry. I should
have respected Caroline's boundaries. I thought that, like it was

(34:23):
gonna be funny, but instead she's been out of control
on social media, like going after Bravo, doubling down, and
it's like, oh, Brandy, no, what are we doing?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Like this sense just get over it, like say you're sorry.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
You're sorry, move on, say your save your reality career.
But now she's going to be like untouchable.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Who knows, maybe she'll wind up, does Foctor reality still exist.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
It turned into Nagio. What yes, I'm so sorry, what yes?
It turned into nat Giou in two thousand and seven
or eight.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Well, maybe she'll get a nice dating show. The Naccio
will make a show for her something.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I guarantee that, Like, you know, she's proven now that
she's a liability and now she's I think joining Beth
neew the reality reckoning. I don't know what's nice for Brandy,
but it's fingers crossed for the only fans money. Maybe
that's probably the next up.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Yeah, to feel bad, But at the same time, it's
like I don't know something about I just think that
she just watching that show and just seeing her come
back and beyond these things. It's again it felt like
very much a character, like she knows she has to
be an agitator, which there's a natural way to do it.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
And she was. I don't say she was doing a
good job. I mean she was. She did really good
job on The Traders. She was on Watched the Traders.
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
God, is the Traders that good?

Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's better than you could ever imagine. Really, okay, I
mean better like you don't even investing. Watch both seasons.
Season two was phenomenal. Season one was great as well.
Just go watch season one, then watch season two, then
you will you will never be happier. I've converted so
many friends to it, people who don't watch reality TV.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
I've heard it's like an escape room meets, Like there's
so many fun little puzzles that they do and sort of.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's really like the game Mafia. You ever played Mafia?
I love Mafia.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
That's one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Oh, it's just it's Mafia. It's literally it's like watching
reality stars play Mafia.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
All it is. It's all it is. It's literally like
you have a large cast and you know, some of
them are traders, the rest are faithful, and the traders
are murder are quote unquote murdering the faithful, and the
faithful are trying to find the traders. And that's all
it is. And they throw in competitions. The competitions don't
really make sense because they don't do anything. They just

(36:37):
throw them in because some executive was like, well, we
need to show something for the trailer. We need action,
but like yeah, we need action, but like we don't
need it, Like it doesn't have any consequence to the
strategy or the implications or anything, but like who cares.
The competitions are fun, but they're useless, unnecessary. The show
is so good in yeah, yeah, I'll watch that one.
You will love it.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Okay, So Catan board games, whitch your favorite board game?

Speaker 1 (37:00):
My favorite board game of all time is a game
called Concordia.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
Shut.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Do you know that I love Concordia?

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Okay, yes, Concordia is the love that game. It's all
the best elements of Catan. Yes, where it's like you're
never bored, meaning like you're always picking something up and
there's some so much fun strategy involved.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Concordia is such a brilliant game because the strategy is
deep and the choices are hard, and it's really tense
and the rule set is really small. Yeah, and I
play like a ton of board games, and like, I
love games with tons and tons of rules, like Catan
is often considered a gateway game because that's the first

(37:41):
time you get your bite of like, oh, this is
what board games can be. It's not just monopoly, it's
not just you know.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Sorry, currency, there's strategy, there's so many control and you're like,
I remember So I played Catan for the first time
ten years ago, twenty fourteen, big big moment in my life.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
I played it and I was like, I did not
know a board game could be this utterly amazing. In fact,
I did not know a game could fill me with
these emotions. I was at a bachelor party weekend in
Lake Tahoe, and all I wanted to do all weekend
along with play Catan. I just want to play it
over and over and over, like I just I could
not get enough. It was like can so relate? It
was like the world opened up to me. And then

(38:21):
I started researching other board games and I got into
the board game hobby, and Concordia is like a great
next step. Although you can play, I've played it with
people who've never played real like strategy strategy games, and
that one's so good, but like there is such a
world of games out there you don't know.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Diplomacy is the one that I really want to play,
but I heard it takes an entire day and I
just don't know if I have it in me.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
So I used to be scared of that too. I've
actually never played Diplomacy. The other thing I hear about
diplomacy is that it ruins friendships.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
So I want to play it though, Like I'm into that,
Like I want to watch people strategize, like that brings
me joy.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I'm not I'm still not sure about diplomacy. But what
I will say is when I first heard about diplomacy,
it was like, yeah, it's a game, but it takes
six hours, and it's like, what, that's insane. Now I
will now play a game that will be like twelve
hours long, and it's fine, Right, It's fine because like,
who cares if it's twelve hours. You're to be able
to spend twelve hours with your friends playing a game
where you're all doing something together. Given that, like going

(39:21):
out to dinner with your best friends, that'll be like
a two hour experience. So to be able to spend
twelve hours with your with your.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Favorite people with that yelling at each other, yeah, hoping
to your best reality villain self without a needing.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
To Yeah, you really can do that, diplomacy is obviously legendary.
I really enjoy a game called Twilight Imperium. If you're
talking about an epic game, I've never heard of this.
It's a game that you have to gather at like
ten am and you're gonna play it till midnight. Wow,
and that's great. That's a big epic space game. I'm
not even like a space sci fi guy. But you
have like your spaceships and you build up your fleet

(39:54):
and you go attack people. It's really fun.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
I've never heard of this game, Twilight Imperium.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
It's a big one in the hobby. A really good
strategy game is one called Brass Birmingham or Brass Lancaster,
Lancaster Great Games or like economic simulators. Okay, I've never
heard of that one. Oh no, this I'm telling you.
There's a in there's so many.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I tried playing. So they had a Catan Settlers of America. Okay,
the rule book was way too big, Like I was confused.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
All right, well you know sometimes well they're I'm sure
there's like a video that might help. I try.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
It's usually the same three people, like they're really getting
off on just one of those three. Someone's making money.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
There's always like someone like sitting on like a wide shot,
a static wide shot, being like and they do like
a sing song any thing when you move your thing.
Now you do this, play a card and then you
take the action. They're trying to They always try to
do like a newscaster voice, and it's like, but what
happens is always the same things. You start like getting
lulled asleep.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
You have a good audiobook voice.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
I feel like you get in. Oh thank you.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, maybe I'll keep podcasting.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
It's great. Listen. If someone wants to pay me to
do the audiobook. That way, I can say I actually read,
because I'm actually be like literally reading the book. Do
you do Audible? Do I do Audible? Audible as a
sponsor of Watch for Crappens, We love Audible.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Also a sponsor of our morning show, So we love Audible.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
We love Audible. So good.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
They're books, chefs.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Good.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Let me think, what other games do you like?

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Ticket to Ride? So I okay, yes, Ticket to Ride
is great.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Europe is the better version.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Europe is the better version. It's also a simple game. However,
that being said, so Ticket to Ride would also fall
under the Gateway game thing. And the thing is with
Gateway games is they're always great. I just played Catan
again like three weeks ago, and so, like, I still
play my Gateway games, and it's always I love playing them,
especially bring new people into the hobby. But what happens
is as you explore these games, For me, my experience

(41:49):
is that you sort of you find games that build
upon those that are just even deeper and richer. And
so while Ticket to Ride is great and I always
will have fun playing it, like, there are is like
a world of train games that takes ticket to ride
and just like it's like on.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Crack and get passengers on the train? How is the
train moving a game?

Speaker 1 (42:09):
There are elements actually and then there's so like while
Ticket to Ride is great, like I want some more
meat on the bones. So and there are these games
I play a whole genre of games that they're very niche,
but I'm making it my mission to make them not niche.
I want to I want to train these games because
I think they're great and I think that they they're

(42:30):
actually more accessible than their reputation is known for the genre.
It sounds to an outside of the genre, sounds wacky.
It's they're called eighteen x X games, which sounds very desultory.
What it sounds like porn in eighteen xx. So it's
it's a series of train games that all seem to

(42:52):
take place in like the eighteen hundred's okay, so is
so like one game is called eighteen thirty one, game
is called eighteen forty one, games called eighteen twenty two,
so they just call them all eighteen xx. Great, So yeah,
it's just it just sounds like porn. It sounds like
barely legal porn. Yeah, but it's actually just a they're

(43:12):
just economic train games.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
And saying it's an economic train game on the box
doesn't sound as fun as eighteen xx.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Maybe get that like.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Random person who's walking in and like, ooh dirty trains.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, but they are like great they take those are
like all day games. They're all long. Some people say
I can play one in three hours.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Google what this box looks like for an eighteen xx.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
They're not like, so let's see what's a good box?
Look up like eighteen twenty two MX. These names are
really they just fly off the tip of the tongue.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Eighteen twenty two MX.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
That's the one that takes place in Mexico and has
a nice, a nicer box.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
Oh this looks fun, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Isn't it? Isn't that pretty? I like it? Well, I
chose that one because I like the color scheme. Which
is so okay, here's my this is the elevator pitch
that I do. I'm now looking at the camera because
now I'm no longer a dressing you. I'm addressing America.
I've been addressing you the entire time I've been sitting
here hiding behind my camera like this. But now, okay,
imagine ticket to Ride. Okay, And for those who don't know,

(44:12):
Ticket to Ride is basically like you have a map
of America or Europe or Europe or many other places.
Actually actually a new Ticket to Ride legacy that came
out that's supposed to be great. Okay, But you're making
these routes. You're making train routes. There's train tracks that
reach across the map, and you're trying to connect like
I don't know, like maybe La to like Phoenix or something,

(44:36):
or like New York to Pittsburgh, and you're just you're
putting these little pieces on and when you put up
enough pieces on the track, you've made your connection and
you get points. Right. That's the that's the gist of it.
And so imagine Ticket to Ride. And imagine if I'm watching,
I'm like, you know, Andrew is doing really well. I

(44:57):
would like to invest in Andrew, and if he does well,
I mean to get a kickback. Like I've just bought used.
I bought us, like you have a stock, like you
have shares. You are a public company. There are ten
shares of Andrew, and I'm gonna buy twenty percent of
Andrew because I believe he's playing Ticket to Ride really well.
And then you do do really well, it's like, oh,

(45:19):
I just got five dollars off of that, because not
real dollars to game dollars. I got five dollars because
your performance was so good. Wow. And now it's like
I'm not only caring about what I'm trying to do.
I care about what you're doing, and maybe I want
to help you do well because I mean to get
a kickback. And that is sort of an overly simplistic

(45:39):
view of what AIGHT and XX games are, which is
that like you are building a map, yeah, building routes,
but you're investing in people and in your stuff and
I love that. The way that the decisions unfold from
that is it's remarkable. It's like my favorite thing.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
I can see a lot of fights starting from that,
because if like I'm choosing to invest in you, but
like I'm not investing in someone else, like I could
see that causing some controversy.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
You can get some controversy there. You can block people's routes,
you can destroy their trains, like.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
I am one hundred.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
It's really like it's not for everyone, but I think
it's for more people than people realize. And there's a
there is like math involved, Like that's where people get
turned off. It's like because you have to calculate, Like okay,
because you get money for the routes, like on my
route from you know, Trenton, New Jersey to Philadelphia is
gonna get me thirty dollars or whatever, and I've got

(46:34):
to divide that amongst all the shareholders. But you just
got a calculator. Yeah, it's easy, like whatever type it
in and divide. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Usually I'm not the math guy. I leave that to
someone else, but there's always someone at the table does
the math for sure. I'm good at Catan is nice
because I can resource draw, like oh my god, here's
your brick, Like that's easy for me.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
What's the best part about Catan is I think all
the table talk is really fun, like all the like negotiating,
like that's so fun and you know you can just
do it for hours.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, last do you like the expansions of Catan? So
I don't actually own any of the expansions. I'm possible
to play the tabletop version. You always have to play
it on Steam. It is not fun in person.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
What the which one?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Like the city is in Cities and Knights and Seafarers.
So I've done big not fun. I've played them both.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I have. I mean I have that the five and
six player expansion, but I've played Seafares, which was fun,
but it just is like a bigger map, right Yeah,
and the Cities and Knights. I played it once and
I enjoyed it, And some people say that's the best
way to play it.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
It's the only way I play it, really. Yeah, it's
the engine, and it it changes the whole game, right,
like because you're now there's like an extra thing you
have to worry about pirates, which is like what you
have to worry about, like where everybody else is going.
There's tiles that you're flipping over. So much more fun,
way better game.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
That's what everyone says. But I do enjoy the purity
of just Catan for sure.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Sometimes fun to go back to the original the og
And yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I've definitely heard that once you do Cities and Knights,
like you just sort of that like that just becomes
the way you play.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
It's a deeper strategy for sure. And then Original Catan.
I don't know, especially with new timers, it's like I
wouldn't say it's easy to kind of manipulate the game,
but it's a little easier.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah. I mean that's the other thing is that I
like the purity, and I also am afraid that if
I went to Cities and Knights it might ruin the
basic game for me. And then I like having the
base game as like this special, like clean experience there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
My friend Josh who got me into Katan probably literally
the same time as you, he refuses to play any expansion.
He's like, I'm only sticking with Catan. There's way better
games out there than Katan. I'm gonna stick with you O,
like just that keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, And like I play expansions for like literally every
other game, but I just with the Catan. I keep
it classic. I want the classic Catan experience. Let me
think of what.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Other ones I like.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
I know I would love to know what other games
you're you're playing, and.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
There's one I really I own, Like I bought this
one off today. I was so prepped and ready for it.
The rules were impossible, and I'm telling you I tried,
I really tried. But this was supposed to be like
Mafia meets like a Concordia, like it fit all the
things that I wanted currencies involved. There's like a little
wheel something AD some.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Like huh something a D but social deduction? Yes? Was it?
Was it a the box of a camel or something AD?
And it's like, no, it's futuristic like twenty thirty seven
or something. Imperial maybe I don't know. There is a
game called Imperial twenty thirty that one, oh that one,

(49:40):
wait that was that's nothing, But that one has nothing
to do with Mafia, right.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
So the same by this game thinking that it was nothing,
Actually that one's sort of close to Yeah, that one
with the alien wait let me see.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, imperially, by way, there's twilet imperium this one. Yeah,
that's the same. That's the same. Designers can actually no
way mm hmm huh.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
And this game is easy to learn. You've played this
so I.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Played it once many years ago, and I could not
wrap my brain around it. But I think that now
I would because that one's supposed to be like diplomacy
and Catan sort of mixed together. Yes, And that one
so that one has the idea, right that you are
investing in companies and the companies go and they go,
they attack each other on a map whatever. That's the
same concept as the eight and XX game. That one

(50:27):
actually takes from the eight and xx genre and adapts
it to diplomacy because in AH and XX you're investing
in companies and those companies build the rails, and in
that game, the companies do the map stuff.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Wow, Okay, I need to learn this one, Like.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
This is I've I've been meaning to revisit that because
I played it in like twenty sixteen or whatever. Yeah,
but now that I know the eight and xx genre,
I think i'd have a better I would be better
able to wrap my brain around how that game works,
because it's really hard to think, like you want to
think like, oh, this is my company, this is me
as a player, but it's actually no, you're investing in

(51:02):
that company and you want that company to do well,
but you pull out of it. God, it's not doing
well and go to a different company.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
Okay, we'll need to set up a board game night
for sure, because you and I would love to also
like take you to one of the board game stores
and show you the games that you might like.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
I'd love to show you, like bring you into the
hobby in like I know I'm going to go to
when I'm when I'm here in New York City, I
go to the Complete Strategists that's on Never heard of this. Yeah,
it's right by the Empire State Building. It's like thirty
third and like fifth Avenue something like that. And then
there's a there's a place down by NYU, but it's
like very small and cramped. It's called like something grounds Hidden.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
No, it's a coffee shop. We have one in Hoboken.
It's not as funny either. Do you get can you
like bring? Is it like b yo?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Well, the Complete s Tragist is just a board game shop.
Oh okay, great, The one by NYU is like a
coffee shop whatever with board games, with board games. There
a lot of board games, but you can buy board
games there too, But like the one, uh, the Complete
Tragist has a really a huge selection.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I love that. The problem is my apartment. I'm in
a one bedroom. I'm like really trying to find places
to put these board games.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Well, what games do you have? You got Imperial twenty thirty.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, I'm Imperial twenty thirty. I have Diplomacy. I buy
them thinking like, oh, I'm going to set this up
and then nobody is investing with me for you know,
my six hour journey to play Diplomacy.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
I guarantee you if you do like a little bit
of research or you go to board game geek, you
could probably find a Diplomacy game to play. There are
people out here, there are people in Manhattan or in
New York City or Hobo again, that will be that
it would be down to play. To play see, I
guarantee play it. It just seems so perfect.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Like I love the thought that like afterwards, after you strategize,
then you find out like where people are attacking.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
So you like all of that. Do you like attacking games?
Do you like deception?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I love that. That's like my favorite thing because I
like being able to kind of just do your own thing.
Usually it's very for me. I have a very simple strategy.
I usually just go in and very nice and then
like hopefully get ahead and then it's like over and
I'm done.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Right, Yeah, I mean your Survivor fans. Yeah, like the
backstabbing and all that stuff that is miammo. Do you
have you played Secret Hitler? That is one of my favorites.
That's my favorite of the social deduction guys. So good,
that one is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Yes, Quarantine that's how like I got through with my friends.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Did you play? Have you played Dead of Winter?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
No?

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Oh? Dead of Winter is one of my all time favorites. Okay, again,
it's not like the setting is not something that gets
something excited, but it's, uh, it's a game where it's
a cooperative games. We're all playing together and it's a
zombie apocalypse and it's wintertime and we're in like a
we're in like a town. It's being overrun and we

(53:38):
have to like we have to like basically survive, but
one of us is potentially a trader and working with zombies,
not necessarily working with the zombies, but working against us.
Like they have their own agenda. Everyone has a private agenda,
and everyone's private agenda makes them look like they're the trader,

(53:59):
and they're sometimes there isn't even a trader in the game.
It depends on the draw of like your ear agendas,
and so you're trying to work together to achieve a
goal for the colony, but the trader maybe subverting that
and it is that sounds wonderful, so fun. Yes, it's
one of my all time favorite games. It is a brilliant,

(54:22):
super super fun game. I've never had a bad game
of it. It's always been like just just great. I
did the Mansion one where it's like you're in a
mansion mansions of madness. Yes, I never played that.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Got Italian. Not great.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
It's not my style of game.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
I didn't really understand what I was doing. I was
in a basement. Somehow I got out of the basement.
I was very confused, and then we won, and I
was like, I don't Yeah, this isn't connect.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Not my type of game where it's kind of like
trying to like emulate a sort of like movie or
something like that. I don't like that. There's a whole
game like the former number one game Gloomhaven. There are
all these games that are like campaigns and whatever. I
don't want it, no too much. I want strategy, Yes,
strategy always yes, and someone make an argument. There is strategy.

(55:06):
I get it, I get it, I get it. But
it's like storytelling, like I'm good, like well, Dead of Winter.
What's good is that the storytelling sort of comes naturally
and flows into it, which is really good. There's an
amazing game that's out right now. I don't know if
this would be your vibe or not, but it really
blew me away. It's called Hegemony, And basically every player

(55:26):
plays a different class in society. So the one player
plays the working class, one player plays capitalist, one player
plays middle class, and one player plays the state. And
you're all working together to try to like not working together.
You're all you're trying to advance your segment of society,
but you have to rely on each other. So like,
the capitalist class hires people from the working class. So

(55:48):
but the capitalist class has to pay the working class.
The working class needs the jobs, capitalists needs the labor.
Middle class serve in the middle, the state needs to
get taxes. Geez wi.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Fun so fun, Yeah, okay, I'm in. Do you like
Castle Burgundy?

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Of course? Yeah. Castle Burgundy is a classic.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
My friend Josh who got me into Catan, he's like
huge he's I think number ten in the world for
Castle Burgundy.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Number ten in the world. Congratulations to Josh.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
He loves the Castle Burgundy. It love that one. He
tried to get me into. Agricola.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
I like it great too, very intense.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Sometimes I just forget that things are I need to
do certain things.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
That's the fun of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Usually so intense leads to not like I luck myself
into a win, like I haven't. I haven't Castle Burgundy.
I could say, like, oh, I can maybe put some
strategy down, like I can think ahead Agricola, It's like,
I don't know where this is going to go towards
the end.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
It's I have some friends who are super into Gurricola
and like that's like you can play it on like
a super super high level. I don't play it like that.
But I first of all, I enjoy just making a farm.
That's what the game is. You make a farm and
you have to feed your family peace. It's very peaceful
and the most stressful game you could ever play. Like
you're but like and you have little like animals that
you know mate, and they.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Make more vegetables.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
It's like the most delightful sounding thing and it's so stressful,
but it's such a fun game. I just I don't
play it very often, just because my friends are always like,
want to play Agricola and like no, I'm like, I
want to play my train game instead, don't play Agricola.
I'm like, fine, But it's I don't know why I
have an attitude about it because I love it and
I own it and it's a great game.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I need to get into the eighteen xx like you've
you've sold me on it? Yeah, is it on? There's
a website that you can play it on. You can
play it online. Yeah, called h and xx dot games.
Don't add three X.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Don't add the third X. Who knows? Like it's important
to learn the rules. I'm trying to think of a
good resource to learning eighteen xx I YouTube, but there's
like eighteen xx media content is a little rough. I'm
not gonna lie, it's not that is not Like the
best version of Board Game Con had a lot of

(58:01):
like older men wearing like train caps, so it's like,
you know, it's just so you know, like just so
you're prepared. Yeah, I mean, but the board game Geek,
which is the central hub for all board game things
They do a video series called Game Night where they
have a group of people that always play games, and

(58:22):
they did one for a game called eighteen thirty, which
is like considered to be like the king of all
the eighteen xx games. It was like the one that
really kind of kicks hard. This not kicked, it really
broke through because this the first eighteen xx game. Comment
like nineteen seventy two. Oh wow, So it's been around
since the Vietnam War was still happening, it was before Watergate.

(58:44):
It's been around for like fifty years, been around the block,
but eighteen thirty is the one that like broke through
and like made it what it is today. So Game Night,
the video series Game Night, if you want, that's how
I was first intrigued by it. Go check out Game Night.
They play eighteen thirty and they they sort of guide

(59:05):
you through it and you'll get some good general ideas.
There's also this really like fun lady named Amby who
does a she does a video called like board Game Blitz,
and she's like very cheery, love that and she talks
she loves talking about H and XX. So that's a
good resource too. Done. I want to make some at

(59:25):
and xx content for YouTube, but it's like it's not easy.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
No, I mean, then you gotta get the wide angle.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
And then I'm the guy talking about trains on the internet.
Nice little side side hobby like I aspire, I aspire,
I will obviously you can already tell. I'm always trying
to bring people into aight and XX. I am into
this game because it's so fun, and like, the more
people that are into it means that there's more people
I can play with. Yes, I'm very self interested for sure.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
The next time you were in town, please set up
a day I will play eighteen XX.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
I would probably need a third or fourth person.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Done, but I can get it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
And we'll need like a table spit, We'll need some tables.
We'll we'll fix because I will do this.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
I'm in. I'm one hundred percent, and I'm always down
to learn new games. I am ready. I love everything
you've mentioned about this game. It sounds like an elevated
strategy game. I love Concordia. I'm in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah, it's it's not like Concordia at all, but it's.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Not like that one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
It's but it's more ticket to ride on steroids, on
steroids and just like, you will never go back to
Ticket to Ride after it. I have to say it's
just so good in or you will hate it and
you will say I can't believe Ben made me waste
six to eight hours playing this game. Listen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I when a game takes out long to me, I
feel like usually means the game is good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah. Well, one thing that I will warn you about
is that the sort of like the last hour of
it can be a little tedious. A lot of people
just sort of stopped playing. They'll say, it looks like
you're gonna win, so let's just say you won, which
is sort of funny, and it's sort of you sort
of like play the game until the bank runs out
of money, and so sometimes you're sort of going through
the motions. And especially it was late at night, it

(01:01:10):
sort of has a weird, not great finale element to it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
But who's one in the morning, You're like, I gotta go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
The journey through it is so fun and so rewarding,
and there's so much fun table talk, and there's so
much so many fun like negotiatings, like negotiating negotiations, and
the there's just so much depth to it. It just
says it's the best.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
You got me, you got me, I am in. We
will play eighteen.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I never thought that this podcast would start with cereal
and then somehow get to eight and XX. I'm actually
blown away.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
This is why we were award nominated. Truly, just yeah,
blessed the breath.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
By the way, substantial section dealing with reality TV and
Real Housewives. Yes, I'm very impressed.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
I mean that's our Wednesday episodes. It's bull Chat, so
we could just talk about whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I'm so impressed because you really hit like the three
things that I love the most in life, which is food,
reality TV, and board games. Yeah, it's like literally my
three passions. Like I have a food newsletter, like I
do watchracrap Ins, I do a food substack, and then
I have and I do I do co host a
small board game podcast. So this is literally my three

(01:02:18):
my three creative outlets are right here on this podcast, right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Damn wow, bull Chat, we really hit them all. Well,
thank you so much for coming on. I'm sure next
time you're in town will not only play board games,
we'll do a full Serial Killers. Yes, we'll blow it up,
so I'm looking forward to that. Well, thank you so
much for coming, Thanks for having me awesome. Well bye guys,
see you later. This wasn't live, but bye by