May 6, 2025 • 37 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by one of the biggest romance writers in the world. Ana Huang is a #1 New York Times, Sunday Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today and #1 Amazon bestselling author who has sold well over 5 million copies of her books. She is best known for her break-out “Twisted” series that is currently being adapted into a series on Netflix. That series alone has over one billion views on TikTok and is considered one of the bestselling romance books of all time. Ana’s fifth book in the “King of Sin” series, “King of Envy,” is out now, and it is taking the book community by storm. Today, Ana opens up about whether she's finally allowed her parents to read her steamy books, how she went from working a 9-to-5 to becoming one of the biggest authors in the world, the powerful moment when she realized she could turn writing into a career, why she thinks the Twisted series resonates with so many people, if she feels pressure over the casting of the TV series, if she has some people in mind for the cast, how social media has been such an important piece of her career, why she likes her fictional men slightly unhinged, what the most challenging part of writing "King of Envy" was, one of her favorite scenes in the book, if she cries when writing emotional scenes, her process for putting out two books a year, the same things she does every time she writes, how she protects herself from criticism and negativity, if there will ever be another "Twisted” book, which of her female main characters would be her best friends, if there is a character she would use in a spinoff, advice for aspiring authors, something very personal she has never said before, and so much more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy Diderio. So my podcast celebrates the artist that you love, right,
people that are such important and massive parts of pop
culture history. And that is why I am so excited
to have my very first author on the show, because
she is a voice that we all love, and I
(00:21):
think many of us would agree we all need. Anna
Huang is a number one New York Times, Sunday Times,
Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon best selling author.
I could keep going on and on because that's how
many accolades she has. She's best known for her Twisted series,
which is being adapted into a Netflix show that you
and I and the entire world is eagerly waiting for.
(00:42):
We are ready. Her Twisted series alone, it has over
one billion views on TikTok and it's considered one of
the best selling romance books of all time. Anna writes
new adult and very very steamy contemporary romance with what
many describe as delicious alpha heroes, some strong heroines, and
plenty of angst and swoon. That's the perfect recipe, if
(01:03):
you ask me. There are so many books of her
to celebrate, her most recent one being King of Envy,
which is out right now. So let's dive into the
world of romance and see if today we can get
Anna to say something that she has never said before. Annahoong,
(01:24):
it is so good to see you today. How are you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm good, Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
So thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I am super psyched. I was telling you you're my
very first author on this show. Oh my god, my
very first author. And you know, typically we have a
lot of movie stars and television stars and singers, but
when I came across you, I'm like, she is so
relevant in pop culture history. You are the moment. You
are more than the moment. I mean, you're here to stay.
I'm like you just you have to come on my show.
(01:51):
I think what you've accomplished and built is unbelievable. Thank
you so much, and I'm super psyched to have you
so thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you. I'm so honored be the first author. I'm
a good company.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh good, good, well, thank you again for being here.
I have a burning question to kick this off today.
Have you fully allowed your parents to read all of
your material yet? Or certain things off limits? What's the status. Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Absolutely, they're banned. It not allowed. And it's funny because
in my first bill, like Twisted Love, the dedication is
actually like to my mom, and I'm like, Mom, if
you're reading this, love you, but close the book like
right now, like, do not read this. And yet they
don't read my books. They do buy them as like support,
but they don't read them. So they just sit there
(02:35):
on the shelves and if they have read them, they
haven't told me they Okay, what do you think.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
The probability is that they did read them and they're
not telling you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know, I was pretty low. Actually, I would probably
say like maybe ten percent because they don't actually read
in English, which I'm like, you know, this is great
for me.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, so that's really SWEETID they'll show up and
buy it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
They'll show up and buy it. I'm like, Mom, you know,
I can just give you the book, and she's like, no,
it's okay, I want to buy it. Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I love that. Shout out to mom. I love that great.
I think your story is so fascinating. So twenty twenty,
obviously the pandemic happened. Yeah, and I believe at the
time you were working kind of a nine to five
cubicle job like so many of us do, and you
shortly after released your first book. Right, so walk me
through how you went from that traditional nine to five
(03:21):
to becoming this international best selling author, because I need
you to fill in the gaps for me.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, it's been a wild ride, and I will say,
you know, I published my debut in twenty twenty, but
I have always loved reading and writing growing up as
a kid, and I kind of stopped a bit after
I graduated from undergrad just because life got so busy
I didn't have time to read for leisure anymore. I
went to grad school, so all of the reading I
did was, you know, like nonfiction, not as fun stuff.
(03:48):
But then twenty twenty came and I had a lot
more free time on my hands. I was a home
and I really needed a creative outlet, something to give
me an escape that I couldn't get anywhere else. I
started writing again, published my debut series that year, and
then I wrote Twisted Love at the end of twenty twenty.
I felt that a little franchise, little franchise, I don't know,
maybe just a little small franchise, and I published that
(04:11):
in twenty twenty one, and the rest, as they say,
is history. Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Wow, did you always feel like you needed to do this,
like your your path will lead you exactly to where
you are even when you were working that job. Did
you dream of this?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah? I think, you know. I think I did when
I was a kid. And it's so funny because I
remember telling my mom I was maybe eight years old,
and I told her I wanted to be an author.
And back then, publishing is a very different landscape than
it is now. And I remember her looking at me
and when I said I wanted to be an author,
and she was like, hmm, She's like, maybe do that
as a hobby and for your job, do something. I'm
(04:48):
more financially stable, you know, like parents. And so when
I went to college, I studied international relations, very different
and I kind of put this aside in my mind
as a career I could have. But when I started
writing again in twenty twenty, like I said, the landscape
had changed. There's so many more opportunities for authors now
in terms of like marketing and visibility. And once, I
(05:09):
think once I put out Twisted Love and I saw
kind of the reaction to it, I was like, you know,
maybe I could do this as a career. And that
was when I really focused on kind of building this
space for myself and preparing to leave my day job.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow. Yeah, that must have been such a pinch me moment,
like I can actually support myself full time writing and
doing what I love.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, And it's crazy. I remember when, like that very
first time, when I started earning more from my books
than I did for my day job, and I was like, wow,
like this is actually a thing, because you know, for
so long, especially, I think sometimes people there's this sense
in society that feels like creative should be almost struggling sometimes,
you know what I mean, like and they shouldn't be
(05:51):
prospering in a certain way. But when I saw it,
I'm like, this is totally doable, Like it's not just
a far off dream that's reserved for the top one
one one percent of the creative fields, right, And so
that was very inspiring to me.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And that twist the Love series, man, it caught on
like wildfire. What do you think it was about that
that made literally the entire world fall in love with it?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah? It was. It was so unexpected, and you know,
I will say when I wrote Twisted Love. I really
had no expectations for it because I wrote a series
before that and it's like fine, but it wasn't. It
didn't take off the same way, right, So I wrote
the book basically, I wrote what I wanted to read.
So I wrote everything that I liked into that book
and I marketed it. And I do think half of
(06:34):
it is maybe the content. Like that series is about
a group of girlfriends that men in college and it
follows them through their twenties, and I think that is
my core audience, Like there are a lot of gen Zers,
people who are in their twenties and thirties that maybe
resonate with that sort of storyline. But I also happened
to be publishing that at the same time that book
talk was taking off, so I think there was a
(06:55):
lot of synergy there.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
And for everyone wondering what that is, what is book talk?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So book talk is a community on TikTok where basically
it's readers like sharing their recommendations, memes, videos all about books,
and there's a lot of subcommunities. But it's huge and
it's thriving, and there is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And you somehow got in it right, like That's what
amazes me. It's how your book, aside from it being brilliant,
got into this community and then it just was literally
word of mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah right, word of mouth. It's always and people ask me,
you know, I think authors are always trying to look
for the best marketing strategy, and there's all these tools now,
but I always tell people, you know, at the end
of the day, word of mouth is still the most
powerful thing you can do to market anything, and TikTok
is basically word of mouth amplified.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, it really is. It's one of I would say,
one of the most important mediums now for getting your
your creative in Denver out there.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, right, can change.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You always go at TikTok because you know how to,
you know what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Thank you. No, you know, it's funny. I was pretty
resistant to it at first. Realized I was an instant.
I was on Instagram for years before that, I didn't
really do video, and when I started publishing, I actually
wanted to be anonymous. Obviously I'm not anonymous now, but
back then I was like, I didn't want to show
my face, and so I was very resistant to TikTok
as a platform because I was like, I don't want
(08:16):
to try. I don't want to learn this new platform.
They're just dancing on there. I don't do dancing. But
I've heard from like a few authors at the time,
right before it was taking off, that they're like, you know,
you can actually do a lot on this platform. There's
a great community. And me, being like a social media person,
I was like, you know, I'll just download the app
and I'll see what it's about. And I actually ended
up really liking it, Like there was a wonderful community
(08:38):
of authors and readers and I just got into it,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, And like you said, it really propelled the Twist
of Love series into the universe and made it partially
what it is. You made it what it is, but
you know, the marketing behind that was just so genius.
And of course Netflix is adapting into a series. I
mean casual. Could you ever have imagined?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Gosh, no, it's so surreal. I think even now sometimes
when I say it, it's hard sometimes because all these
things happen and I feel like I don't always get
time to sit and take in what's happening, you know,
like it's go, go, go. But when the Netflix stal happened.
I was like, Wow. Like when I was a kid,
I used to dream about when I saw those books
getting adapted to big screens. I would think like, oh,
(09:18):
I would love for that to happen one day. But
it wasn't something I ever thought was actually possible, you
know what I mean. It was just kind of like
a dream. And so now I'm like, you know, it's
a big, big goal.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, and I feel like the world is talking about
the casting for it. Oh yeah, do you feel the
pressure to get that right?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes? I think the casting is super super important, especially
you know, and I've talked to a lot of the
people on the team about it, you know, We've had
a lot of discussions, and for me, especially for a
romance casting, I'm always like, you know, yes, we do
want people who look like the characters. Obviously they should
fit like that. But it is a romance series, and
(09:57):
I think what is the most important to me is
that there's a street between the characters, right, Like, that
is the number one goal for me. And while we
haven't gotten to the casting part yet, I think I'm
always keeping an eye out when I you know, watch
media and see things to see if there's anyone that fits,
but I think there may also be kind of an
argument to be made for finding fresh faces as well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So you're pretty involved in the adaptation for Netflix, Like
do you have approvals of casts and all of that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
No, I don't get ftal approval, Okay, I do obviously,
like they'll take my they'll take kind of like my
consultation into account and I can give my ideas and
it's a very collaborative process. We're still in early days,
but I do love the team there, and I'm very
excited for what we can do together.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I imagine when you have a baby, like this part
of you is obviously thrilled this is happening, but also like, okay,
will you handle it with care? And will you make
it what I know it should be? Like right, it's
a lot of those emotions, I imagine it is.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And it's scary, you know, to to kind of give
your work over to someone else and have them make
it into something new, because when you adapt something to screen,
like things will invariably have to change, right in order
to do this to that medium, and especially my fans
are so passionate and they are so excited, but they
also have you know, a lot of ideas about who
(11:17):
they feel should play, the cast or how things should go.
So I kind of have to toe that line of
keeping the story true to the heart of what they are,
but also recognizing that it does have to change once
it gets adopted.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh my god, that seems easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It is. Now come back to me when.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
We're yeah, no, I feel you, because we even I
have a creative project and I have to let people
in or kind of hand something off. It's like, okay,
just handle it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I know, handle it. Well, it's good.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, yeah, Well Netflix is amazing and I have no
doubt that they will. But there's so much speculation out there.
So nobody has been cast yet.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No one has been casting.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You're not hiding that out like people think you have
some information, You're with hell withholding not the case.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, there are so many rumors like scrolling around, and
every couple of months there'll be like a new rumor
that X hus been cast as why and it goes
viral and I'm like, and so I continuously tell them,
I'm like, unless I announce it from my official accounts,
nothing has been set yet.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, when when is this aiming to be out. Do
you know that we.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Don't have a set DAG yet. We're still in the
development process, but hopefully.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, very interesting. Well, we look forward
to seeing how all of this unfolds. I'm sure, and
I'm not gonna make you say, but I'm sure you
have a couple faces in mind that you are interested in.
Uh huh, I'm sure. So we'll see what happens. But
let's talk about this beautiful book right in front of me,
your newest book, King of Envy. Yes, oh my god,
(12:41):
I was telling you. I was. I was reading it
and there were some scenes and words and I was like,
I need to be alone reading this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I do not read in public.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Ooh it is spicy, it is sexy. I love it.
I love the two main characters. So, in your words,
what is this book all about?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah? So, King of Envy is the fifth book in
My Kings of Sinceri, which is a series of contemporary
romances that's themed around the Seven Deadly Since and it's
about Vook and Ayana, who happens to be engaged to
Book's best friend, but Book has been in love with
her for a while, so obviously there's a lot of
like yearning and pining. But what he doesn't know is
(13:16):
that their engagement is actually an engagement of convenience, So
they kind of have to navigate that part of the relationship.
You know, he has to deal with the loyalty to
his friend versus his feelings for her. Meanwhile, there's kind
of a side plot where kind of a more dangerous
part of his past crops up that he has to
deal with, and Ayana is also trying to like free
(13:37):
herself from her agency. So all of this comes to
a head in the climax, and it is a romance,
but there's a lot of action and suspense as well.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And what's cool is it can very much be a
standalone book.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yes it can. All of the my series are all
interconnected stand alone, so while you will see characters pop
up in each book, they can all be read on
its own.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I'm going to read it to you one of my
favorite things I've ever read in my entire Life's right
in the beginning. Oh it's nothing that seeming relax everybody
relax relaxed Cravios PGPG. It's right in the beginning, and
you're right to all the readers who like their fictional
men a little unhinged. This one's for you. So that
begs the question, do you like your men unhinged?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I do fictional Okay, fictional hing there is a difference.
I do love my morally gray characters. I think that
is what I'm known for because that's what the Twisted
series has a lot. But it's really fun to write
them because I can step outside the box a little bit.
Like when I write their characters, I don't have to
think they have to do things in a certain way
that's acceptable to society. Like they can just do their
(14:38):
own thing. And I think we all have that fantasy sometimes,
you know, where you're like, oh, I wish I could
just do this, but you can't. So it's really fun.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I have a confession, and I have played many unhinged
men on the covers of romance novels myself. It is
how I started off in the entertainment business. I'm going
to show you one right now. This is me. Uh huh,
maybe I don't know, God, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes, I was doing a lot of covers playing these
unhinged characters, which I don't always tell people, but I'm like,
I have to tell you. You'll appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I appreciate this so much because you know, Harlequin novels
are how I got my start reading romance.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Really, this is really especial. It's called in the Argentine's Bed,
Oh my Argentine's Bed, Argentine's Bed amazing And I'm not Argentinian,
which might be problematic, but I played one on the book.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So you know, you know what, you look great.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Thank you, great, thank you, thank you. I hope you
have a collection of you, just like they are in storage.
They are not out, definitely not out. But I so
I so love that when I read that when I
opened the book, because you're right, you create a world
where these men don't have to be perfect and they
can have all these different layers. I think that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it's it's the best thing, I think, And I
think that's the best thing about fiction is you can
explore so many different types of characters, like so many
different worlds, and you can make them whatever you want
to be.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So in this book, what was the most challenging part
for you to write?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh? You know, I think for me because this part
does this book does have a stronger suspense subplot than
any of the books in the previous series. So for me,
it was hard in the beginning to actually figure out
how they all tied together. And you know, I was
sitting on it for like months and I was like, Okay,
(16:30):
I know kind of the general shape of what it
looks like, but I can't quite put the pieces together.
And then finally one day, for books backstory especially, I
literally just started the computer and I kind of wrote
a short story, like almost like a biography of like,
this is what happened in his past, this is where
it leads to him now. And it was very helpful.
So I kind of wrote like a mini story before
(16:50):
the actual story. It helped me flush it out.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
That's amazing. Did you do that for everything?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Or no? I don't just put this one because it
was so much more intricate, I think than the others.
But now that I've seen how helpful it is, maybe
I'll do it for all of my books going forward.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, it's so cool. Do you have a scene or
a moment that is one of your favorites in this book?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh? You know what, I actually love. So this may
be a spoiler for people, but it's not like a
huge spoiler. So there is this moment where Book gets
a cat and it's it's pet cat, and it's so
funny because he's this like big booty kind of scary
guy and then he kind of gets put in his
place by this like tiny little kitten. And I think
it's so fun to write their dynamic, and you know,
(17:34):
I love cats in general, so I think having showing
the softer side of him was really fun.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love getting to the mind of such brilliant artists
and really seeing kind of a where like the ideas
come from, be what resonates with you. I know. It's
like when you hear like favorite scene or favorite this,
it's like picking your favorite pet or kid. But some
stand out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, some stand out, and you know, some are fun
to write, some are more emotional, and then obviously they're
the spicy scenes, which are like a whole different area,
so different kinds of favorites.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Do you cry when you write emotional scenes?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I do. I do sometimes, And sometimes when I write
an emotional scene and I don't cry, I think maybe
I didn't write this right, really, like, maybe I have
to go back and rewrite it until I actually cry.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, And I think because once you're writing a book
and you really get into the flow of it, I
feel like I am in that world with the character.
So I feel like I am the character. And so
when I write certain scenes, like I, if I'm not
feeling what they're feeling, then I think, you know, like
something's wrong. So yeah, it's a full on process.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Are you like a method actor where when you're writing
you stay in character and can't break character the entire time?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I wouldn't say not break character, but I do have
to be in that flow, and once I get pulled
out of it, it's hard for me to kind of
keep writing in that way and have to find my
way back into flow again.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
How in the world do you pump out so many
books like you have multiple a year.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I published two a year now, Yeah, I mean, how
do you do that?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
That seems very ambitious and not normal.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
It is ambitious. It's a lot. Although I mean, I
will say, because I started off in the indie publishing space. Ye,
and now you know, I'm traditionally published in my books
arend stores, but in the indie space, especially for romance authors,
I am actually probably pretty slow. Like there are some
authors that will put out a book like every two
to three months, And for me, yeah, I'm a bit slower,
(19:32):
but I think it's because I already have a lot
of those characters in my mind, Like I probably have
the next two couples that I want to write already
in my mind. So when I'm writing one book, the
others are already in the background kind of simmering. So by
the time I get to their book, I already have
a very not if not detailed, then at least like
a general idea of what their story is going to
(19:53):
be like. And I think once you've written, once you've
found your voice and you've found your style, it gets
a little bit easier to kind of write these stories, right.
And you know, I have my deadlines, and I'm a
person that I don't like to when I say I'm
going to put out something, I don't like to not
do it, so that kind of gives me the motivation.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So how long is that process typically like for you
to write an entire book.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I would say from the idea process to finishing it,
probably about six months. I see.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That blows my mind. That blows I mean, you make
it seem so easy and doable. I mean, that's like,
I don't know if I could ever do that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's not I think you don't underjudge yourself. Okay, you know,
I will say sometimes it's hard because you don't see
I spend so much of that time thinking and then
the actual writing I actually do in about like six
to eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, a lot of it is
just intellecting.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And do you have any rituals that you do For
every single book you write? You listen to a playlist?
You like candles, I mean, are there must MutS, must
do as on your list type of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I do create a playlist for every book that I
put out, and it when I'm not feeling motivated, I'll
listen to the playlist because when I write books, or
even when I read books, I see them as movies
in my head, and we all know a movie needs
a good soundtrack. So I'm not feeling motivated, like before
I write, I will just sit there and I'll just
listen to the soundtrack and get into the mind space
(21:14):
of that story. But when I'm actually writing, I can't
listen to anything with lyrics, so I'll listen to like
binural beats. I have a brain FM subscription and I'll
just put that on and I'll just type away. And
sometimes I'll do it at home. Sometimes I'll go to
a cafe. But's that's really like my only must when
it comes to every book.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Wow, So the playlist that you actually release is the
one you listen to when you were writing it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Wow, Yeah, that's pretty cool. I thought maybe it was
something that you just kind of did to coincide with
the book or but it's your personal playlist.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah wow. And I mean I'll pick songs that I
think will give off the same vibes as the book,
you know, so it's both for me and it's for
the readers.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's very very actory of you. You know, like a
lot of actors have their playlist to get into character,
and before they go on set, if it's a very
drama scene, they go and listen to something that gets
them in that that little space right before they would
start crying and then they start rolling. So that that's
very very actory review.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I know that. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's pretty cool. I really really like that this genre
is so beloved. I mean, it's it's it's been around,
I don't know for how long, it seems like forever,
and people truly, truly love it. And these books, like
people have parties waiting for them to come out, and
there's countdowns and you know, I don't have to tell you.
So what is it about the romance genre? Yeah, creates
(22:31):
that feeling for so many people.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those genre.
I mean, it's one of the very few genres, if
not the only one, that I think really centers women's
pleasure and women's agency. And I think, you know, there's
also a part of it that's so broad, right, there's
so many different types of romances in there that whatever
you want to read, whether you like romantic suspense or
(22:54):
you like kind of softer rom coms, you like dark romance, like,
you'll always find your niche in that space and your community.
And that's and I also think there is a great
comfort in reading stories where you know a happily ever
after is guaranteed and it's you know, you don't know
what the journey will look like, but at the end
of the day, you will leave happy. And I think,
especially in a world that can be so chaotic and heavy,
(23:15):
there is a lot of comfort in that would you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Ever write a book where it doesn't and like that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Not if I market it as a romance, uh huh,
be in another genre, But for now I am sticking
to the try and truth.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
But that makes sense. People want that feel good feeling
at the end, and we don't always get that in life, right,
So it's such a nice escape.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, it's the escape the fantasy of it all.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah. I think it's amazing that A, you have work
that resonates with so many people, but you've been able
to sustain this career and not let the outside world
or opinions influence er factor what it is you do
and how you do it. Yeah, which isn't easy, especially
when you are so big on social media and you
are on TikTok and fans have opinions and they want
(23:59):
them to be known. So how have you been able
to kind of avoid getting sucked into that whole of
criticism and spiraling and reading all the things. I know,
there's so much great stuff out there, obviously, but inevitably
there's something that will come our way that we'll see
that's kind of like, oh that hurt. Yeah, right, So
how do you protect yourself with your art and the
public yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think that's a great question. I think it's
something that's get easier the more I publish, because I
think when you have maybe one or two books out,
the compulsion is to always check, you know, like every
little thing that someone is writing about you, you have
to like look it up. I was addicted to good
Reads at a point, which is not great. Do not
get addicted to it is terrible. But you know, eventually,
(24:41):
as you have more books out and as your platform grows,
it's actually kind of easier to insulate myself a little
bit because I don't feel quite as I'm attached to
my books, but I'm not like this is the one
book that I have and it must be this thing,
you know. And I will say before I write, now,
I don't go on social media like I I will
just go straight to my desk and I will write
(25:02):
because you never know what you see, Like it doesn't
even have to be about my books. It could be
about anything like in the world, and it will just
send me into a spiral and I can't write for
the rest of the day, right, And so I take
that very seriously, that ritual of not doing social media
in the morning. And also I have to learn now,
especially that my platform has grown, that while everyone has opinions,
(25:24):
sometimes they're just their opinions, and I have to write
my story the way I want to tell it. And
plus there's no one consensus on what something should be like.
People will give me ideas, they'll give me opinions, but
they contradict each other. And I'm like, well, you know
it's you can always give me your opinion, but at
the end of the day, I have to do what
feels true to me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And I feel like that's something probably you've
worked on over the years, better and better and better at.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah. You have to kind of grow a thicker skin,
you know, and especially in a business where you are
kind of a public figure, you have to have a
great support network, I will say, yeah, And you just
have to learn to know what voices to listen to
and when to shut out, you know, all of the noise.
And I do think that it's something that is easier
(26:09):
once you have grown more into your role.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Do you think when you have books that are so
wildly popular and that people really latch onto the story
so much so that you are getting a Netflix series created,
do you think it's even more intense.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's so interesting to
me because I do and I've discussed this with some
of my friends as well. I do think sometimes when
you reach a certain level of success, there are some
people that kind of stop seeing you as people and
they see you kind of as like a commoditor or
that the things that they say don't really hurt or
(26:44):
it doesn't really matter because you won't see it, or
you won't have like the same feelings as maybe people
they know personally. And so there's a lot of good
and also like some bad that comes with reaching a
certain level. Right, But at the end of the day,
I it's some that just comes with the job and
you kind of have to deal with it in whatever
way works best for you.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, and we all deal with it, right. I think
people might look at you and think, oh, there's no
way you would ever have to deal with something like that,
but we all do. That's part of life.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, and it's true. And I think sometimes people
don't talk about the cons of success as much as
they talk about the pros. And I think that is
especially hard for people, let's say, if they have like
I don't want to say overnight success. Well, let's say
they have like a book that really takes off, and
they're not mentally prepared for some of those cons it
(27:32):
can be really hard to kind of find your sea legs.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
One hundred percent. I think it's so cool because you
clearly give back so much to your community and you're
so engaged with everybody, which is I think part of
the magic of your whole brand and why people one
of the many reasons why people resonate so much and
so deeply with you. And with that being said, I
love to have artists like yourself on who pay it forward.
And I know there are people listening who have a
(27:55):
draft of something or who want to write something but
don't think they have it in them or it can
never happen for them. What advice would you give to
aspiring authors?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean for me, I say, just get the
draft done, you know, and I know that, and don't
try to make it perfect. And I know a lot
of people, especially the newer authors, I feel like when
you write that first book and it's something they've always
dreamed of doing, I think there is a sense that
they're like, this is the book, Like this has to
be the most perfect book, like this has to be
the best seller, the groundbreaker, and if it isn't, then
(28:25):
I'm a failure, you know what I mean. And that's
usually not true. Like most of our first books are
actually not our best book. Then you probably don't want
it to be your best book because you want to
be continuously growing and improving as you publish. So I
always tell them, you know, like for that first book,
just get that draft done and the magic happens in
the editing, and then you will just continue to grow
and improve, Like, don't let the need for perfection hold
(28:47):
you back from completing something.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Oh, don't let the need for perfection hold you back
from completing something. I might get that tattooed on my body.
I love that quote. That is so good. Wait, well
it's all I was gonna say, can I write that?
But now it's on my show, so I don't need
to write that down. But I really like that. That
is amazing, all right. I couldn't have you on and
(29:12):
not ask some fan questions. Okay, I'm not responsible for these, Okay,
but these are the top five fan questions that I
would I was repeatedly seeing in my inbox when I
announced you as my guests, Number one being will there
be another Twisted Love book maybe years later, checking in
on where the characters all are.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah. I don't want to promise anything. I won't say no,
Like if I do, it will probably be some sort
of epilogue novel where we kind of have all the characters.
It won't be like a romance with one couple. So
for now we'll say maybe.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Okay, maybe we'll take. Maybe, we'll take maybe. Is there
a female main character that you would be best friends with,
like in a heartbeat, if you can only pick one?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Oh? Man, I think this is really hard because I
love all the girls in different ways. I will say,
I think for me because I am such an introvert
in my real life, I do think sometimes it would
be really nice to have someone like Jewels from Twisted
Hate as like a foil, because she is obviously an extrovert,
(30:15):
and if we go out, I need someone like that
to actually interact with other people because otherwise I'll just
like sit at the table and just hang out.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, you need a good like wing woman, Yeah, like
a good wing woman. I support that. I support that. Yeah, Okay,
is there a character that you were thinking about giving
their own book too.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Oh that I didn't end up giving a book too.
And I know I'm going to get so many messages
about this, But there was a point where I almost
wrote a book for Andreas, who is a side character
in Twisted Games. He is the main character Bridget's cousin,
and he kind of starts off like you don't really
like him, but then by the end he redeems himself
(30:54):
and I almost wrote a story for him, but then
I ended up not doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Is there hope for that or now?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Probably not? Okay, I decided to scrape that idea.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean, you're a little busy and booked right now.
It's okay. It's sorry, you have enough going on, all right?
Two more. You're surviving this pretty well. Okay, this is
a hard one. Oh gosh, your top two favorite book boyfriends?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Oh gosh, is this from my book? Wow?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Your books?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
They can't make me choose like that. That's not okay,
I will say, Okay. I tend to have a recency
bias when it comes to things like this, Like right
after I write a book, that couple tends to be
my favorite. So I do love book a lot. He
is also exactly my fictional type, like that kind of booty,
silent type. So I love him, and you know, I
(31:44):
think it's hard to say this without mentioning I think
it's hard to say this without mentioning Alex because he
is the one that started everything for me. You know,
he was the hero and Twisted Love, and that was
the book that kind of changed my life. So I
have very fond feelings toward that couple for a lot
of reasons. But I love all the others as well.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay, that's a good that's a good answer. We'll take it.
And final questions kind of like two in one, so
I'm sorry about it, but here we go. Would you
ever consider a Mafia series?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I knew this was going to come. Never say never again.
I will say I had a lot of fun writing
the suspense in this book, so maybe, but I don't
have any plans to do that by this time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Okay, fair enough, fair enough, And then kind of similar
this came up quite a bit. Would you ever write
a male on mail romance?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh? Like I again, never say never. I am open to,
you know, writing anything, but I think at this time
I have my next couple of years books.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Okay, under contract you survived the fan questions, how do
you feel?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I feel pretty good. Good you for not you know,
just throwing out of left field.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You did good, you did good. Yenah. This, Oh my god,
this has been such a pleasure. I love I love
celebrating people like you who contribute so much to people's lives.
And I don't say that flippantly. I truly mean that.
I think when people read these books, it's such an
important escape for them, no matter what they're going through
in their lives. I mean I saw people who have
(33:19):
sick family members, who just lost the spouse, who have said,
like your books, heal them and help them. And I
think it's such a beautiful gift you give to the
world with your writing and with all of this. So
it's been so much fun getting to know you a
little bit and celebrate the work. And as we wrap up,
the name of the show is called I have never
said this before, Yes, And it was born because I
(33:39):
cover a lot of red carpet premieres and junkets and
you get three minutes with you know, the star of
the movie, and you just don't always have time for
real conversation. It's very SoundBite based and very quick, and
I sometimes see this yearning for them to want to
say something else and it's like, got to go on
to the next. So it was born for giving space
for people to talk about something that matter to them. So,
(34:01):
with all of that being said, is there anything you
can think of today that you've never said before that
you want to share?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah? And I will say this is something that came
to mind because I saw this person recently and it
reminded me of what she told me, and it's that
I feel like I have never really been fondly vulnerable
with anyone in my life ever, Like I think I've
only ever given maybe a total of eighty percent of
myself to someone, which is interesting because I write romance,
(34:28):
which is so much about vulnerability and opening yourself up.
And I didn't even realize that until this friend that
I saw recently. She told me one day, like years ago.
She's like, you know, Anna, we have been friends for
like almost a decade and sometimes I feel like I
don't really know you well. She's like, You're so mysterious,
and she was kind of joking about it. But there
is some truth in that and probably something that I
(34:49):
need to unpack a little bit, but I you know,
as someone who deals in this space with all the
romance and vulnerability, it was interesting for me to kind
of get that revelation. And I've never told anyone that
before because I feel kind of like, I don't know,
I feel like maybe I'll get judged for it. But
this feels like a safe space.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, well it's very safe, and thank you for sharing that.
I think it's very real, right. I think for whatever
the reason, maybe personally people like to protect themselves and
have a little bit of a shield, and that's something
that isn't always easy to admit, I imagine, right, And
the fact that you know that, yeah, and you were
kind of talking about it with a friend, which is
maybe uncomfortable at first. Yeah, then you're like, oh, okay, no,
(35:31):
I want to figure out why it is that way
and maybe get that eighty percent to eighty eight percent, yeah,
ninety five percent, and eventually really give your all vulnerabile,
all your vulnerabilities to somebody, which is scary, I know,
I know, but I think that's really cool, and maybe
that's also why you're such a brilliant writer.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Right, I pour all my feelings into the buddy you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Do they say some of the best actors are kind
of emotionally turned off and then they go into their
work and it's all there. So you know, maybe it's
the same with that little piece of vulnerability for you.
But I'm excited to talk down the line and have
you come back and say I'm at ninety five percent.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Now we'll just track my progress.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, podcast, I'm going to make a little notesapp on
my phone with your vulnerability levels throughout the years, so
we're gonna stay in touch on that.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Anna.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Thank you so much. You are a joy and please
come back anytime, and I am always going to be
cheering you on and rooting for you. I think you're fantastic.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Thank you so much. It is so much fun.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thank you be well. I've Never Said This Before is
hosted by Me Tommy di Dario. This podcast is executive
produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by Me Tommy,
with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've Never Said This Before
is part of the Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeart Podcasts.
(36:45):
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
I'm Tommy de Dario,
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy Diderio. So my podcast celebrates the artist that you love, right,
people that are such important and massive parts of pop
culture history. And that is why I am so excited
to have my very first author on the show, because
she is a voice that we all love, and I
(00:21):
think many of us would agree we all need. Anna
Huang is a number one New York Times, Sunday Times,
Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon best selling author.
I could keep going on and on because that's how
many accolades she has. She's best known for her Twisted series,
which is being adapted into a Netflix show that you
and I and the entire world is eagerly waiting for.
(00:42):
We are ready. Her Twisted series alone, it has over
one billion views on TikTok and it's considered one of
the best selling romance books of all time. Anna writes
new adult and very very steamy contemporary romance with what
many describe as delicious alpha heroes, some strong heroines, and
plenty of angst and swoon. That's the perfect recipe, if
(01:03):
you ask me. There are so many books of her
to celebrate, her most recent one being King of Envy,
which is out right now. So let's dive into the
world of romance and see if today we can get
Anna to say something that she has never said before. Annahoong,
(01:24):
it is so good to see you today. How are you.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm good, Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
So thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I am super psyched. I was telling you you're my
very first author on this show. Oh my god, my
very first author. And you know, typically we have a
lot of movie stars and television stars and singers, but
when I came across you, I'm like, she is so
relevant in pop culture history. You are the moment. You
are more than the moment. I mean, you're here to stay.
I'm like you just you have to come on my show.
(01:51):
I think what you've accomplished and built is unbelievable. Thank
you so much, and I'm super psyched to have you
so thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you. I'm so honored be the first author. I'm
a good company.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh good, good, well, thank you again for being here.
I have a burning question to kick this off today.
Have you fully allowed your parents to read all of
your material yet? Or certain things off limits? What's the status. Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Absolutely, they're banned. It not allowed. And it's funny because
in my first bill, like Twisted Love, the dedication is
actually like to my mom, and I'm like, Mom, if
you're reading this, love you, but close the book like
right now, like, do not read this. And yet they
don't read my books. They do buy them as like support,
but they don't read them. So they just sit there
(02:35):
on the shelves and if they have read them, they
haven't told me they Okay, what do you think.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
The probability is that they did read them and they're
not telling you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know, I was pretty low. Actually, I would probably
say like maybe ten percent because they don't actually read
in English, which I'm like, you know, this is great
for me.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, so that's really SWEETID they'll show up and
buy it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
They'll show up and buy it. I'm like, Mom, you know,
I can just give you the book, and she's like, no,
it's okay, I want to buy it. Oh.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I love that. Shout out to mom. I love that great.
I think your story is so fascinating. So twenty twenty,
obviously the pandemic happened. Yeah, and I believe at the
time you were working kind of a nine to five
cubicle job like so many of us do, and you
shortly after released your first book. Right, so walk me
through how you went from that traditional nine to five
(03:21):
to becoming this international best selling author, because I need
you to fill in the gaps for me.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, it's been a wild ride, and I will say,
you know, I published my debut in twenty twenty, but
I have always loved reading and writing growing up as
a kid, and I kind of stopped a bit after
I graduated from undergrad just because life got so busy
I didn't have time to read for leisure anymore. I
went to grad school, so all of the reading I
did was, you know, like nonfiction, not as fun stuff.
(03:48):
But then twenty twenty came and I had a lot
more free time on my hands. I was a home
and I really needed a creative outlet, something to give
me an escape that I couldn't get anywhere else. I
started writing again, published my debut series that year, and
then I wrote Twisted Love at the end of twenty twenty.
I felt that a little franchise, little franchise, I don't know,
maybe just a little small franchise, and I published that
(04:11):
in twenty twenty one, and the rest, as they say,
is history. Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Wow, did you always feel like you needed to do this,
like your your path will lead you exactly to where
you are even when you were working that job. Did
you dream of this?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah? I think, you know. I think I did when
I was a kid. And it's so funny because I
remember telling my mom I was maybe eight years old,
and I told her I wanted to be an author.
And back then, publishing is a very different landscape than
it is now. And I remember her looking at me
and when I said I wanted to be an author,
and she was like, hmm, She's like, maybe do that
as a hobby and for your job, do something. I'm
(04:48):
more financially stable, you know, like parents. And so when
I went to college, I studied international relations, very different
and I kind of put this aside in my mind
as a career I could have. But when I started
writing again in twenty twenty, like I said, the landscape
had changed. There's so many more opportunities for authors now
in terms of like marketing and visibility. And once, I
(05:09):
think once I put out Twisted Love and I saw
kind of the reaction to it, I was like, you know,
maybe I could do this as a career. And that
was when I really focused on kind of building this
space for myself and preparing to leave my day job.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow. Yeah, that must have been such a pinch me moment,
like I can actually support myself full time writing and
doing what I love.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, And it's crazy. I remember when, like that very
first time, when I started earning more from my books
than I did for my day job, and I was like, wow,
like this is actually a thing, because you know, for
so long, especially, I think sometimes people there's this sense
in society that feels like creative should be almost struggling sometimes,
you know what I mean, like and they shouldn't be
(05:51):
prospering in a certain way. But when I saw it,
I'm like, this is totally doable, Like it's not just
a far off dream that's reserved for the top one
one one percent of the creative fields, right, And so
that was very inspiring to me.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And that twist the Love series, man, it caught on
like wildfire. What do you think it was about that
that made literally the entire world fall in love with it?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah? It was. It was so unexpected, and you know,
I will say when I wrote Twisted Love. I really
had no expectations for it because I wrote a series
before that and it's like fine, but it wasn't. It
didn't take off the same way, right, So I wrote
the book basically, I wrote what I wanted to read.
So I wrote everything that I liked into that book
and I marketed it. And I do think half of
(06:34):
it is maybe the content. Like that series is about
a group of girlfriends that men in college and it
follows them through their twenties, and I think that is
my core audience, Like there are a lot of gen Zers,
people who are in their twenties and thirties that maybe
resonate with that sort of storyline. But I also happened
to be publishing that at the same time that book
talk was taking off, so I think there was a
(06:55):
lot of synergy there.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
And for everyone wondering what that is, what is book talk?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So book talk is a community on TikTok where basically
it's readers like sharing their recommendations, memes, videos all about books,
and there's a lot of subcommunities. But it's huge and
it's thriving, and there is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And you somehow got in it right, like That's what
amazes me. It's how your book, aside from it being brilliant,
got into this community and then it just was literally
word of mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah right, word of mouth. It's always and people ask me,
you know, I think authors are always trying to look
for the best marketing strategy, and there's all these tools now,
but I always tell people, you know, at the end
of the day, word of mouth is still the most
powerful thing you can do to market anything, and TikTok
is basically word of mouth amplified.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, it really is. It's one of I would say,
one of the most important mediums now for getting your
your creative in Denver out there.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, right, can change.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You always go at TikTok because you know how to,
you know what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Thank you. No, you know, it's funny. I was pretty
resistant to it at first. Realized I was an instant.
I was on Instagram for years before that, I didn't
really do video, and when I started publishing, I actually
wanted to be anonymous. Obviously I'm not anonymous now, but
back then I was like, I didn't want to show
my face, and so I was very resistant to TikTok
as a platform because I was like, I don't want
(08:16):
to try. I don't want to learn this new platform.
They're just dancing on there. I don't do dancing. But
I've heard from like a few authors at the time,
right before it was taking off, that they're like, you know,
you can actually do a lot on this platform. There's
a great community. And me, being like a social media person,
I was like, you know, I'll just download the app
and I'll see what it's about. And I actually ended
up really liking it, Like there was a wonderful community
(08:38):
of authors and readers and I just got into it,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, And like you said, it really propelled the Twist
of Love series into the universe and made it partially
what it is. You made it what it is, but
you know, the marketing behind that was just so genius.
And of course Netflix is adapting into a series. I
mean casual. Could you ever have imagined?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Gosh, no, it's so surreal. I think even now sometimes
when I say it, it's hard sometimes because all these
things happen and I feel like I don't always get
time to sit and take in what's happening, you know,
like it's go, go, go. But when the Netflix stal happened.
I was like, Wow. Like when I was a kid,
I used to dream about when I saw those books
getting adapted to big screens. I would think like, oh,
(09:18):
I would love for that to happen one day. But
it wasn't something I ever thought was actually possible, you
know what I mean. It was just kind of like
a dream. And so now I'm like, you know, it's
a big, big goal.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, and I feel like the world is talking about
the casting for it. Oh yeah, do you feel the
pressure to get that right?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yes? I think the casting is super super important, especially
you know, and I've talked to a lot of the
people on the team about it, you know, We've had
a lot of discussions, and for me, especially for a
romance casting, I'm always like, you know, yes, we do
want people who look like the characters. Obviously they should
fit like that. But it is a romance series, and
(09:57):
I think what is the most important to me is
that there's a street between the characters, right, Like, that
is the number one goal for me. And while we
haven't gotten to the casting part yet, I think I'm
always keeping an eye out when I you know, watch
media and see things to see if there's anyone that fits,
but I think there may also be kind of an
argument to be made for finding fresh faces as well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So you're pretty involved in the adaptation for Netflix, Like
do you have approvals of casts and all of that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
No, I don't get ftal approval, Okay, I do obviously,
like they'll take my they'll take kind of like my
consultation into account and I can give my ideas and
it's a very collaborative process. We're still in early days,
but I do love the team there, and I'm very
excited for what we can do together.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I imagine when you have a baby, like this part
of you is obviously thrilled this is happening, but also like, okay,
will you handle it with care? And will you make
it what I know it should be? Like right, it's
a lot of those emotions, I imagine it is.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And it's scary, you know, to to kind of give
your work over to someone else and have them make
it into something new, because when you adapt something to screen,
like things will invariably have to change, right in order
to do this to that medium, and especially my fans
are so passionate and they are so excited, but they
also have you know, a lot of ideas about who
(11:17):
they feel should play, the cast or how things should go.
So I kind of have to toe that line of
keeping the story true to the heart of what they are,
but also recognizing that it does have to change once
it gets adopted.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh my god, that seems easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It is. Now come back to me when.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
We're yeah, no, I feel you, because we even I
have a creative project and I have to let people
in or kind of hand something off. It's like, okay,
just handle it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I know, handle it. Well, it's good.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, yeah, Well Netflix is amazing and I have no
doubt that they will. But there's so much speculation out there.
So nobody has been cast yet.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No one has been casting.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You're not hiding that out like people think you have
some information, You're with hell withholding not the case.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
No, there are so many rumors like scrolling around, and
every couple of months there'll be like a new rumor
that X hus been cast as why and it goes
viral and I'm like, and so I continuously tell them,
I'm like, unless I announce it from my official accounts,
nothing has been set yet.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, when when is this aiming to be out. Do
you know that we.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Don't have a set DAG yet. We're still in the
development process, but hopefully.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, very interesting. Well, we look forward
to seeing how all of this unfolds. I'm sure, and
I'm not gonna make you say, but I'm sure you
have a couple faces in mind that you are interested in.
Uh huh, I'm sure. So we'll see what happens. But
let's talk about this beautiful book right in front of me,
your newest book, King of Envy. Yes, oh my god,
(12:41):
I was telling you. I was. I was reading it
and there were some scenes and words and I was like,
I need to be alone reading this right now.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I do not read in public.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Ooh it is spicy, it is sexy. I love it.
I love the two main characters. So, in your words,
what is this book all about?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah? So, King of Envy is the fifth book in
My Kings of Sinceri, which is a series of contemporary
romances that's themed around the Seven Deadly Since and it's
about Vook and Ayana, who happens to be engaged to
Book's best friend, but Book has been in love with
her for a while, so obviously there's a lot of
like yearning and pining. But what he doesn't know is
(13:16):
that their engagement is actually an engagement of convenience, So
they kind of have to navigate that part of the relationship.
You know, he has to deal with the loyalty to
his friend versus his feelings for her. Meanwhile, there's kind
of a side plot where kind of a more dangerous
part of his past crops up that he has to
deal with, and Ayana is also trying to like free
(13:37):
herself from her agency. So all of this comes to
a head in the climax, and it is a romance,
but there's a lot of action and suspense as well.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And what's cool is it can very much be a
standalone book.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yes it can. All of the my series are all
interconnected stand alone, so while you will see characters pop
up in each book, they can all be read on
its own.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I'm going to read it to you one of my
favorite things I've ever read in my entire Life's right
in the beginning. Oh it's nothing that seeming relax everybody
relax relaxed Cravios PGPG. It's right in the beginning, and
you're right to all the readers who like their fictional
men a little unhinged. This one's for you. So that
begs the question, do you like your men unhinged?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I do fictional Okay, fictional hing there is a difference.
I do love my morally gray characters. I think that
is what I'm known for because that's what the Twisted
series has a lot. But it's really fun to write
them because I can step outside the box a little bit.
Like when I write their characters, I don't have to
think they have to do things in a certain way
that's acceptable to society. Like they can just do their
(14:38):
own thing. And I think we all have that fantasy sometimes,
you know, where you're like, oh, I wish I could
just do this, but you can't. So it's really fun.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I have a confession, and I have played many unhinged
men on the covers of romance novels myself. It is
how I started off in the entertainment business. I'm going
to show you one right now. This is me. Uh huh,
maybe I don't know, God, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yes, I was doing a lot of covers playing these
unhinged characters, which I don't always tell people, but I'm like,
I have to tell you. You'll appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I appreciate this so much because you know, Harlequin novels
are how I got my start reading romance.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Really, this is really especial. It's called in the Argentine's Bed,
Oh my Argentine's Bed, Argentine's Bed amazing And I'm not Argentinian,
which might be problematic, but I played one on the book.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So you know, you know what, you look great.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Thank you, great, thank you, thank you. I hope you
have a collection of you, just like they are in storage.
They are not out, definitely not out. But I so
I so love that when I read that when I
opened the book, because you're right, you create a world
where these men don't have to be perfect and they
can have all these different layers. I think that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it's it's the best thing, I think, And I
think that's the best thing about fiction is you can
explore so many different types of characters, like so many
different worlds, and you can make them whatever you want
to be.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
So in this book, what was the most challenging part
for you to write?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Oh? You know, I think for me because this part
does this book does have a stronger suspense subplot than
any of the books in the previous series. So for me,
it was hard in the beginning to actually figure out
how they all tied together. And you know, I was
sitting on it for like months and I was like, Okay,
(16:30):
I know kind of the general shape of what it
looks like, but I can't quite put the pieces together.
And then finally one day, for books backstory especially, I
literally just started the computer and I kind of wrote
a short story, like almost like a biography of like,
this is what happened in his past, this is where
it leads to him now. And it was very helpful.
So I kind of wrote like a mini story before
(16:50):
the actual story. It helped me flush it out.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
That's amazing. Did you do that for everything?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Or no? I don't just put this one because it
was so much more intricate, I think than the others.
But now that I've seen how helpful it is, maybe
I'll do it for all of my books going forward.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, it's so cool. Do you have a scene or
a moment that is one of your favorites in this book?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh? You know what, I actually love. So this may
be a spoiler for people, but it's not like a
huge spoiler. So there is this moment where Book gets
a cat and it's it's pet cat, and it's so
funny because he's this like big booty kind of scary
guy and then he kind of gets put in his
place by this like tiny little kitten. And I think
it's so fun to write their dynamic, and you know,
(17:34):
I love cats in general, so I think having showing
the softer side of him was really fun.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I love getting to the mind of such brilliant artists
and really seeing kind of a where like the ideas
come from, be what resonates with you. I know. It's
like when you hear like favorite scene or favorite this,
it's like picking your favorite pet or kid. But some
stand out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, some stand out, and you know, some are fun
to write, some are more emotional, and then obviously they're
the spicy scenes, which are like a whole different area,
so different kinds of favorites.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Do you cry when you write emotional scenes?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I do. I do sometimes, And sometimes when I write
an emotional scene and I don't cry, I think maybe
I didn't write this right, really, like, maybe I have
to go back and rewrite it until I actually cry.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, And I think because once you're writing a book
and you really get into the flow of it, I
feel like I am in that world with the character.
So I feel like I am the character. And so
when I write certain scenes, like I, if I'm not
feeling what they're feeling, then I think, you know, like
something's wrong. So yeah, it's a full on process.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Are you like a method actor where when you're writing
you stay in character and can't break character the entire time?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I wouldn't say not break character, but I do have
to be in that flow, and once I get pulled
out of it, it's hard for me to kind of
keep writing in that way and have to find my
way back into flow again.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
How in the world do you pump out so many
books like you have multiple a year.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I published two a year now, Yeah, I mean, how
do you do that?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
That seems very ambitious and not normal.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
It is ambitious. It's a lot. Although I mean, I
will say, because I started off in the indie publishing space. Ye,
and now you know, I'm traditionally published in my books
arend stores, but in the indie space, especially for romance authors,
I am actually probably pretty slow. Like there are some
authors that will put out a book like every two
to three months, And for me, yeah, I'm a bit slower,
(19:32):
but I think it's because I already have a lot
of those characters in my mind, Like I probably have
the next two couples that I want to write already
in my mind. So when I'm writing one book, the
others are already in the background kind of simmering. So by
the time I get to their book, I already have
a very not if not detailed, then at least like
a general idea of what their story is going to
(19:53):
be like. And I think once you've written, once you've
found your voice and you've found your style, it gets
a little bit easier to kind of write these stories, right.
And you know, I have my deadlines, and I'm a
person that I don't like to when I say I'm
going to put out something, I don't like to not
do it, so that kind of gives me the motivation.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
So how long is that process typically like for you
to write an entire book.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I would say from the idea process to finishing it,
probably about six months. I see.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That blows my mind. That blows I mean, you make
it seem so easy and doable. I mean, that's like,
I don't know if I could ever do that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's not I think you don't underjudge yourself. Okay, you know,
I will say sometimes it's hard because you don't see
I spend so much of that time thinking and then
the actual writing I actually do in about like six
to eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, a lot of it is
just intellecting.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And do you have any rituals that you do For
every single book you write? You listen to a playlist?
You like candles, I mean, are there must MutS, must
do as on your list type of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I do create a playlist for every book that I
put out, and it when I'm not feeling motivated, I'll
listen to the playlist because when I write books, or
even when I read books, I see them as movies
in my head, and we all know a movie needs
a good soundtrack. So I'm not feeling motivated, like before
I write, I will just sit there and I'll just
listen to the soundtrack and get into the mind space
(21:14):
of that story. But when I'm actually writing, I can't
listen to anything with lyrics, so I'll listen to like
binural beats. I have a brain FM subscription and I'll
just put that on and I'll just type away. And
sometimes I'll do it at home. Sometimes I'll go to
a cafe. But's that's really like my only must when
it comes to every book.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Wow, So the playlist that you actually release is the
one you listen to when you were writing it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Wow, Yeah, that's pretty cool. I thought maybe it was
something that you just kind of did to coincide with
the book or but it's your personal playlist.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah wow. And I mean I'll pick songs that I
think will give off the same vibes as the book,
you know, so it's both for me and it's for
the readers.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's very very actory of you. You know, like a
lot of actors have their playlist to get into character,
and before they go on set, if it's a very
drama scene, they go and listen to something that gets
them in that that little space right before they would
start crying and then they start rolling. So that that's
very very actory review.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I know that. Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's pretty cool. I really really like that this genre
is so beloved. I mean, it's it's it's been around,
I don't know for how long, it seems like forever,
and people truly, truly love it. And these books, like
people have parties waiting for them to come out, and
there's countdowns and you know, I don't have to tell you.
So what is it about the romance genre? Yeah, creates
(22:31):
that feeling for so many people.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those genre.
I mean, it's one of the very few genres, if
not the only one, that I think really centers women's
pleasure and women's agency. And I think, you know, there's
also a part of it that's so broad, right, there's
so many different types of romances in there that whatever
you want to read, whether you like romantic suspense or
(22:54):
you like kind of softer rom coms, you like dark romance, like,
you'll always find your niche in that space and your community.
And that's and I also think there is a great
comfort in reading stories where you know a happily ever
after is guaranteed and it's you know, you don't know
what the journey will look like, but at the end
of the day, you will leave happy. And I think,
especially in a world that can be so chaotic and heavy,
(23:15):
there is a lot of comfort in that would you.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Ever write a book where it doesn't and like that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Not if I market it as a romance, uh huh,
be in another genre, But for now I am sticking
to the try and truth.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
But that makes sense. People want that feel good feeling
at the end, and we don't always get that in life, right,
So it's such a nice escape.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, it's the escape the fantasy of it all.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah. I think it's amazing that A, you have work
that resonates with so many people, but you've been able
to sustain this career and not let the outside world
or opinions influence er factor what it is you do
and how you do it. Yeah, which isn't easy, especially
when you are so big on social media and you
are on TikTok and fans have opinions and they want
(23:59):
them to be known. So how have you been able
to kind of avoid getting sucked into that whole of
criticism and spiraling and reading all the things. I know,
there's so much great stuff out there, obviously, but inevitably
there's something that will come our way that we'll see
that's kind of like, oh that hurt. Yeah, right, So
how do you protect yourself with your art and the
public yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think that's a great question. I think it's
something that's get easier the more I publish, because I
think when you have maybe one or two books out,
the compulsion is to always check, you know, like every
little thing that someone is writing about you, you have
to like look it up. I was addicted to good
Reads at a point, which is not great. Do not
get addicted to it is terrible. But you know, eventually,
(24:41):
as you have more books out and as your platform grows,
it's actually kind of easier to insulate myself a little
bit because I don't feel quite as I'm attached to
my books, but I'm not like this is the one
book that I have and it must be this thing,
you know. And I will say before I write, now,
I don't go on social media like I I will
just go straight to my desk and I will write
(25:02):
because you never know what you see, Like it doesn't
even have to be about my books. It could be
about anything like in the world, and it will just
send me into a spiral and I can't write for
the rest of the day, right, And so I take
that very seriously, that ritual of not doing social media
in the morning. And also I have to learn now,
especially that my platform has grown, that while everyone has opinions,
(25:24):
sometimes they're just their opinions, and I have to write
my story the way I want to tell it. And
plus there's no one consensus on what something should be like.
People will give me ideas, they'll give me opinions, but
they contradict each other. And I'm like, well, you know
it's you can always give me your opinion, but at
the end of the day, I have to do what
feels true to me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah. Yeah, And I feel like that's something probably you've
worked on over the years, better and better and better at.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah. You have to kind of grow a thicker skin,
you know, and especially in a business where you are
kind of a public figure, you have to have a
great support network, I will say, yeah, And you just
have to learn to know what voices to listen to
and when to shut out, you know, all of the noise.
And I do think that it's something that is easier
(26:09):
once you have grown more into your role.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Do you think when you have books that are so
wildly popular and that people really latch onto the story
so much so that you are getting a Netflix series created,
do you think it's even more intense.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's so interesting to
me because I do and I've discussed this with some
of my friends as well. I do think sometimes when
you reach a certain level of success, there are some
people that kind of stop seeing you as people and
they see you kind of as like a commoditor or
that the things that they say don't really hurt or
(26:44):
it doesn't really matter because you won't see it, or
you won't have like the same feelings as maybe people
they know personally. And so there's a lot of good
and also like some bad that comes with reaching a
certain level. Right, But at the end of the day,
I it's some that just comes with the job and
you kind of have to deal with it in whatever
way works best for you.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, and we all deal with it, right. I think
people might look at you and think, oh, there's no
way you would ever have to deal with something like that,
but we all do. That's part of life.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, and it's true. And I think sometimes people
don't talk about the cons of success as much as
they talk about the pros. And I think that is
especially hard for people, let's say, if they have like
I don't want to say overnight success. Well, let's say
they have like a book that really takes off, and
they're not mentally prepared for some of those cons it
(27:32):
can be really hard to kind of find your sea legs.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
One hundred percent. I think it's so cool because you
clearly give back so much to your community and you're
so engaged with everybody, which is I think part of
the magic of your whole brand and why people one
of the many reasons why people resonate so much and
so deeply with you. And with that being said, I
love to have artists like yourself on who pay it forward.
And I know there are people listening who have a
(27:55):
draft of something or who want to write something but
don't think they have it in them or it can
never happen for them. What advice would you give to
aspiring authors?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, I mean for me, I say, just get the
draft done, you know, and I know that, and don't
try to make it perfect. And I know a lot
of people, especially the newer authors, I feel like when
you write that first book and it's something they've always
dreamed of doing, I think there is a sense that
they're like, this is the book, Like this has to
be the most perfect book, like this has to be
the best seller, the groundbreaker, and if it isn't, then
(28:25):
I'm a failure, you know what I mean. And that's
usually not true. Like most of our first books are
actually not our best book. Then you probably don't want
it to be your best book because you want to
be continuously growing and improving as you publish. So I
always tell them, you know, like for that first book,
just get that draft done and the magic happens in
the editing, and then you will just continue to grow
and improve, Like, don't let the need for perfection hold
(28:47):
you back from completing something.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Oh, don't let the need for perfection hold you back
from completing something. I might get that tattooed on my body.
I love that quote. That is so good. Wait, well
it's all I was gonna say, can I write that?
But now it's on my show, so I don't need
to write that down. But I really like that. That
is amazing, all right. I couldn't have you on and
(29:12):
not ask some fan questions. Okay, I'm not responsible for these, Okay,
but these are the top five fan questions that I
would I was repeatedly seeing in my inbox when I
announced you as my guests, Number one being will there
be another Twisted Love book maybe years later, checking in
on where the characters all are.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah. I don't want to promise anything. I won't say no,
Like if I do, it will probably be some sort
of epilogue novel where we kind of have all the characters.
It won't be like a romance with one couple. So
for now we'll say maybe.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Okay, maybe we'll take. Maybe, we'll take maybe. Is there
a female main character that you would be best friends with,
like in a heartbeat, if you can only pick one?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Oh? Man, I think this is really hard because I
love all the girls in different ways. I will say,
I think for me because I am such an introvert
in my real life, I do think sometimes it would
be really nice to have someone like Jewels from Twisted
Hate as like a foil, because she is obviously an extrovert,
(30:15):
and if we go out, I need someone like that
to actually interact with other people because otherwise I'll just
like sit at the table and just hang out.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Okay, you need a good like wing woman, Yeah, like
a good wing woman. I support that. I support that. Yeah, Okay,
is there a character that you were thinking about giving
their own book too.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Oh that I didn't end up giving a book too.
And I know I'm going to get so many messages
about this, But there was a point where I almost
wrote a book for Andreas, who is a side character
in Twisted Games. He is the main character Bridget's cousin,
and he kind of starts off like you don't really
like him, but then by the end he redeems himself
(30:54):
and I almost wrote a story for him, but then
I ended up not doing it.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Is there hope for that or now?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Probably not? Okay, I decided to scrape that idea.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I mean, you're a little busy and booked right now.
It's okay. It's sorry, you have enough going on, all right?
Two more. You're surviving this pretty well. Okay, this is
a hard one. Oh gosh, your top two favorite book boyfriends?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Oh gosh, is this from my book? Wow?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Your books?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
They can't make me choose like that. That's not okay,
I will say, Okay. I tend to have a recency
bias when it comes to things like this, Like right
after I write a book, that couple tends to be
my favorite. So I do love book a lot. He
is also exactly my fictional type, like that kind of booty,
silent type. So I love him, and you know, I
(31:44):
think it's hard to say this without mentioning I think
it's hard to say this without mentioning Alex because he
is the one that started everything for me. You know,
he was the hero and Twisted Love, and that was
the book that kind of changed my life. So I
have very fond feelings toward that couple for a lot
of reasons. But I love all the others as well.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay, that's a good that's a good answer. We'll take it.
And final questions kind of like two in one, so
I'm sorry about it, but here we go. Would you
ever consider a Mafia series?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I knew this was going to come. Never say never again.
I will say I had a lot of fun writing
the suspense in this book, so maybe, but I don't
have any plans to do that by this time.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Okay, fair enough, fair enough, And then kind of similar
this came up quite a bit. Would you ever write
a male on mail romance?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh? Like I again, never say never. I am open to,
you know, writing anything, but I think at this time
I have my next couple of years books.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Okay, under contract you survived the fan questions, how do
you feel?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I feel pretty good. Good you for not you know,
just throwing out of left field.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You did good, you did good. Yenah. This, Oh my god,
this has been such a pleasure. I love I love
celebrating people like you who contribute so much to people's lives.
And I don't say that flippantly. I truly mean that.
I think when people read these books, it's such an
important escape for them, no matter what they're going through
in their lives. I mean I saw people who have
(33:19):
sick family members, who just lost the spouse, who have said,
like your books, heal them and help them. And I
think it's such a beautiful gift you give to the
world with your writing and with all of this. So
it's been so much fun getting to know you a
little bit and celebrate the work. And as we wrap up,
the name of the show is called I have never
said this before, Yes, And it was born because I
(33:39):
cover a lot of red carpet premieres and junkets and
you get three minutes with you know, the star of
the movie, and you just don't always have time for
real conversation. It's very SoundBite based and very quick, and
I sometimes see this yearning for them to want to
say something else and it's like, got to go on
to the next. So it was born for giving space
for people to talk about something that matter to them. So,
(34:01):
with all of that being said, is there anything you
can think of today that you've never said before that
you want to share?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah? And I will say this is something that came
to mind because I saw this person recently and it
reminded me of what she told me, and it's that
I feel like I have never really been fondly vulnerable
with anyone in my life ever, Like I think I've
only ever given maybe a total of eighty percent of
myself to someone, which is interesting because I write romance,
(34:28):
which is so much about vulnerability and opening yourself up.
And I didn't even realize that until this friend that
I saw recently. She told me one day, like years ago.
She's like, you know, Anna, we have been friends for
like almost a decade and sometimes I feel like I
don't really know you well. She's like, You're so mysterious,
and she was kind of joking about it. But there
is some truth in that and probably something that I
(34:49):
need to unpack a little bit, but I you know,
as someone who deals in this space with all the
romance and vulnerability, it was interesting for me to kind
of get that revelation. And I've never told anyone that
before because I feel kind of like, I don't know,
I feel like maybe I'll get judged for it. But
this feels like a safe space.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, well it's very safe, and thank you for sharing that.
I think it's very real, right. I think for whatever
the reason, maybe personally people like to protect themselves and
have a little bit of a shield, and that's something
that isn't always easy to admit, I imagine, right, And
the fact that you know that, yeah, and you were
kind of talking about it with a friend, which is
maybe uncomfortable at first. Yeah, then you're like, oh, okay, no,
(35:31):
I want to figure out why it is that way
and maybe get that eighty percent to eighty eight percent, yeah,
ninety five percent, and eventually really give your all vulnerabile,
all your vulnerabilities to somebody, which is scary, I know,
I know, but I think that's really cool, and maybe
that's also why you're such a brilliant writer.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Right, I pour all my feelings into the buddy you.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Do they say some of the best actors are kind
of emotionally turned off and then they go into their
work and it's all there. So you know, maybe it's
the same with that little piece of vulnerability for you.
But I'm excited to talk down the line and have
you come back and say I'm at ninety five percent.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Now we'll just track my progress.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, podcast, I'm going to make a little notesapp on
my phone with your vulnerability levels throughout the years, so
we're gonna stay in touch on that.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Anna.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Thank you so much. You are a joy and please
come back anytime, and I am always going to be
cheering you on and rooting for you. I think you're fantastic.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Thank you so much. It is so much fun.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thank you be well. I've Never Said This Before is
hosted by Me Tommy di Dario. This podcast is executive
produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by Me Tommy,
with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've Never Said This Before
is part of the Elvis Duran podcast network on iHeart Podcasts.
(36:45):
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
I'm Tommy de Dario,
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