December 15, 2025 • 57 mins
**Please Note - this episode is audio only.
We are here with a very special breaking news episode to discuss the shootings at Brown University and a Hanukkah celebration in Sydney, Rob Reiner's death and potential autopsy findings, and the verdict in the Brian Walshe case.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everyone, Welcome the Mother Knows Death.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We've had some breaking news stories over the weekend, so
many of them that we thought we couldn't even wait
until tomorrow's episode. So we're just gonna have a quick
little episode this morning going over some of the major
breaking news stories that happened this weekend, of course the
most shocking being of Rob and Michelle Reiner. But first,
(00:28):
let's talk about what happened before all of that happened yesterday.
There were two shootings over the weekend, one in America
one in Australia that were pretty significant.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, So these two shootings, I just can't even
believe what happened over this weekend. Seriously, it was like
a never ending news cycle. You know. I was doing
the stories for this week too, like changing all the
titles and stuff, and we have over fifty five in
there right now for this week.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, and I didn't even really look for any yet.
So obviously we tell you you guys all the time
that in the gross room we cover the other stories
that we don't talk about on Mother No's death. So yeah,
so let I mean, all right, let's talk about the
shootings first, and then we'll talk about what happened last night,
because that was crazy, but the stories with the shootings
(01:15):
are all so crazy, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So we had these two major mass shootings over the weekend.
So there was one at Brown University which ended up killing.
As of now, they're reporting two students have died. So
last night there was reports that they had taken a
person of interest into custody, but they have since let
them go. And one of the craziest parts of this
story for me is that two of the students who
were at the school that day this was not their
(01:38):
first shooting. One of the girls was shot in a
twenty twenty one shooting outside outside of Los Angeles out
of high school, and another student was at a school
adjacent to the Parkland High School during that shooting in Florida.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, I think that this is going to become more
common because most people, I mean I know older people
go to college as well, but the majority of people
that are that are at college, especially living there, are
are younger people, right, So the chances of them experiencing
this in their school life just because there are so
many school shootings every year or just increasing as time
(02:13):
goes on. That case in particular, I mean listen, like,
I don't want to talk shit because I'm not obviously
I've never worked in law enforcement and stuff, but just
being an average lay person that's just watching the news
and watching how the investigations unfolding, it just seems like
it's a total shit show. And I was actually so
(02:38):
my kids, as you guys know that I was posting
on Instagram yesterday it snowed here, like, I mean, six inches,
wasn't It's not that much compared to people that live
up north, but like it's kind of a lot here
for especially in December. So my kids had a two
hour delay for school today, which means that I let
(02:59):
them stay later last night. So I was just up
later than I normally would be, like listening to the
news and paying attention to things, and I saw that
they were having a press conference for this Brown University thing,
and I guess I was shocked because all day if
you tuned into Fox News or to CNN or anything
(03:22):
like that, they weren't naming who the shooter was that
they had in custody. However, when you're on social media,
this guy's picture was all over social media talking about
oh it was this twenty four year old guy from Wisconsin,
and he had he was I think it said that
he was in the military, and his picture was plastered
(03:44):
all over, and I thought, that's weird that someone leaked
his name. Obviously, every single person on social media, it's
like spreading like wildfire, and none of the news outlets
are actually reporting this guy's name. So I thought that
was a little weird. And then I tune into this
press conference and I was shocked when they said, oh,
(04:07):
we let the guy go and we really just don't
have this person in custody. And so now everyone that
lives around there is like, oh cool, So there's just
this crazy gunman on the loose, and now it's been
it's been days, so who knows if he's even around
there anymore, or if he's in our neighborhood or whatever,
you know what I mean. Like, it's just and then
(04:30):
they just released the footage and there's barely any footage.
The reporters are actually really calling out everyone, which is
kind of awesome because you don't see that often.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, yeah, and they're smart not reporting that person's name immediately,
because if it really wasn't that person, then the press
could have a serious lawsuit on their hands because they're
going to ruin that person's life.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Someone should definitely get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want to say one hundred percent because just
because let this guy go, I mean, I don't understand
how they just were so off. But whatever they let
this guy go, it doesn't one hundred percent mean that
he's not involved. It just means they don't have anything
to hold him. But I'd still say, whoever leaked it?
(05:17):
And I mean, yes, this guy is a young guy
and they leaked his picture, his name, all his information,
his parents' name, everything all over online. How is he
gonna recover from that, even if it turns out that
he was completely not involved. It's just really unfortunate. And
I mean that's just going to be the way it
(05:39):
is from now on, and we're going to have to
get used to that. And I guess the same could
be said with all of the stories that we're going
to talk about today. Honestly, because social media, I found
out so many things. It's to the point where you're
just like, why am I even watching the news anymore?
I'm hearing all this shit online like sometimes hours before
(06:01):
the news even releases it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, but that's difficult because like, for example, like sometimes
we'll see something on Instagram x Facebook, right, and we'll
throw it in the stories, and then when I start
looking for anything backing it up, there's nothing, And then
it turns out some of them are just completely fabricated.
And what you were just saying reminds me of when
that person I believe on TikTok was falsely accusing a
(06:24):
professor at either Washington State University or Idaho where the
kids were killed, of being the suspect, right, And it's
like that that professor ended up seeing that person and
they had every rate because they had no credible claims
backing that up. And now this person's all over with
all these crazy online salutes and their life is getting
(06:45):
ruined for no reason.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Well even right as us recording this episode, I have
gone on social media and see posts still circulating with
the picture of the other guy saying that the shooter
from the Brown University has been caught, And I'm just like,
I don't understand why every single influencer in the world
(07:07):
isn't taking that down now because it's been known that
he's not the guy anymore. But at the same time,
some of these posts have millions of views and maybe
they're getting money from them, so they have no interest
in taking them down.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, but the news might be slow, but it's because
they have not that they're perfect either, because they definitely
mess stuff up too, but they have a more credible
system effect checking and getting credible sources, whereas people anymore
online are just posting whatever they see and then there's
like no accountability for damaging somebody's reputation, all.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Right, So so so yeah, I mean you're right about that.
And anyway with this case, I mean we'll stay on
top of this more. And this is like I obviously
I want to focus most today on the Rob and
Michelle Reiner case, but but yeah, I don't know. I
just watched press conference last night and it just I
(08:03):
just I just can't believe. I almost feel like these
people just like don't have practice in what happens in
an emergency or something. It just seems all over the place,
and I just keep thinking, like if my kid was
at school there, how I just would not feel safe.
Like they're putting out some statement like, oh, well, the
(08:24):
shelter in place thing is lifted, because ever since that
initial call that we got there hasn't been any threats
to the public, and you're just like, yeah, but there
were no threats to the public when a guy walked
in a classroom and shot a bunch of people and
killed bunch of people. So like, your argument is weak,
(08:45):
and I understand that you're in a hard place because
you don't want the public to be panicking because you
have a whole entire area where not only the universities,
but just people who live nearby go to school, send
their kids to school around there, go to work around there,
and as of right now, we don't even know. I mean,
(09:09):
obviously it was targeted, right you don't just go in
a specific university, in a specific classroom and kill specific people.
But like, what was the motivation of that? Was it
a boyfriend killing a girlfriend and it was a domestic
situation or was it like a racial or politically moved thing,
Like like, who's the target and who needs to be
(09:31):
worried right now? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, because who's to say, Like it's very busy out
right now, it's the holidays, people are doing more stuff
out there, going shopping. Like what's to say this person's
not going to go out in public and do it
somewhere else if they got so much satisfaction from that
and weren't caught.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, I really, I don't know. It's just to think
about and listen, Like the police could totally be lying
and telling us that this is the only video that
they have. But in my opinion, if they don't have
a suspect right now, and they don't have they need
the public's help to show pictures. So the public could
(10:08):
be like, we know who this guy is, so it
would be the best for them to show all of
the available evidence they have.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, but I do want to play Devil's advocate with
that for a second, because I do think sometimes they
are so pressured to release information and then things start happening,
like you're ruining a person's life that actually has nothing
to do with it, or you're compromising the integrity of
the case when they should be keeping some stuff close
to their chest.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Just based upon though the press conference, and I could
only go upon what they what they've said directly, like
it seems like they legitimately have no other film of
this guy. And I mean they post that online and
the comments are just so they're so good that just
like ripping these people. One of them showed the little
(10:56):
you know when you go to like the men's or
the women's room and there's the outline of the man
or the outline of the woman. They showed the outline
of the man just in black, and they were like, Oh,
this is the suspect at large because that's like the
amount of information they're giving us a figure of a
person wearing black. Like it's so it's just like, yeah,
that's really helpful. So they're gonna have to find them
(11:20):
other ways, obviously. And this first one they were saying
that they found through tracking cell phone records and things
like that. And then they were saying that they found
this guy and they found these guns and he was
in some hotel. So you're just like, okay, well, is
that the same guy, like what or is that just
another guy that's in a hotel with a bunch of
guns that I have no idea? So and listen, like,
(11:43):
tomorrow's another day, so there might be a ton more
information about that. And I'm texting you know last night,
it's late, I'm texting you and Lauren and being like, dude,
what is happening right now? This is such a shit show.
And then all of a sudden, this breaking news comes
out about Rob and Michelle Reiner and which which was
(12:08):
really shocking. So I guess before we get into that,
just briefly, let's talk about the terrorist. It was a
terrorist attack that happened in Australia too, which is unusual
because they are a country with some of the strictest
gun laws in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, what's really weird about this case too, is it
was a father and son pair of gunman too, so
it wasn't even a lone shooter. But they ended up
killing fifteen people during this honka celebration at Bondi Beach
in Sydney, and at least forty two people have been
hospitalized as of what we know right now. But the
police killed the father who was fifty on the scene,
(12:47):
and then the son, who was twenty four is now hospitalized.
So I wonder if he's going to give the motive.
I mean, clearly they were attacking a specific group of people,
but I wonder what other information he's going to offer
about this.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, and it's and talking about the strict gun laws,
like if you compare it to our country, it's like
when you think about some of the states that have
strict gun laws, Like when you're in Texas, for example,
you could legally openly carry a gun in some areas
and it's not very difficult to get one, whereas in
(13:21):
New Jersey it's one of the harder states to get one.
So in Australia, it's not like, like I guess right now,
if we go over to Pennsylvania or Texas, you could
just walk in a store and buy a gun like
in Walmart or something, right, But in New Jersey it's
not that easy. And it's the same in Australia, like
you have to get a license and you have to
(13:42):
specifically go through a lot of hoops to get a gun.
And I personally believe that that is a reason why
their gun crime is low, because they are very strict
of who has to get it, and sometimes if a
person wants to commit a crime impulsively, they have to
(14:03):
go through hoops and months of paperwork and money and
a process to get it, and that would take too
much time for an impulsive action. You can't just go
to the store and buy one easily like that, right.
But this so this dad actually had legal permits to
have these firearms for whatever reason that he was granted them,
(14:26):
and just by watching the video, they both know how
to shoot guns, and they both know what the hell
they're doing. And I guess the negative of this in
a place like Australia is that no one has guns. Therefore,
those people were just shooting people targets for over ten
(14:47):
eleven minutes because no one's armed there.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
But there was that viral video right of somebody taking
down one of the yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Which was which was actually so brave and the person
is such a hero. Yeah, I mean, just so brave
to do that, and he's in the hospital he got shot.
I think he didn't. I'm not sure that even realized
if there was another gunman or not. But there's some
videos circulating online that are over ten minutes long that
(15:15):
just show these people with a bolt action rifle just
shooting and shooting and shooting with just like not even
caring to take the time to do it because they
know that nobody's shooting back at them. It's so scary.
So yeah, and I mean, like children, it's just disgusting,
and like, listen, you're never even gonna be able to
(15:36):
get into the mind of a person that wants to
do something like that. But it's even like you were
saying earlier, it's just more disturbing that this is a
father son situation. We always talk about that, like how
do you you understand one person being sick, but how
do two people that think that way get together and
(15:57):
have those thoughts and decide to carry it out. There's
like not one person saying like maybe this isn't a
good idea or whatever. It's just a very it's it's
just weird. You think, like, how does that conversation even
come up?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, I even understand it more in this situation because
it's a father son So you don't know how this
kid was raised, if he was radicalized from the time
he was a little kid, right, But I think that well.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
His mom, his mom was interviewed and said he was
a good boy and anybody would love to have a
son like hers. Well, she's one of the she's one
of those moms.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, there's listen, that could very well be true. Or
there's also I would like to argue more than not
toxic boy moms that say that all the time. Yeah, exactly,
But I think that applies with you know, like on
YouTube live over on Friday, we were talking about this
like crazy international satanic cult that was taking these horrific
(16:52):
videos of children. And it was not just I think
it was in Australia too, but there was also another
situation in the United States where all these guys were
spread around. And in that case, I'm like, how are
these people meeting up between like New Mexico, California, and
New York and then forming this really terrible internet behavior.
(17:12):
I just don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I don't either. So obviously, if more comes out
on that, at least in this case, they know who
the people are and I you know, they're gonna have
to trace it back and figure what happened. It's just
it's just really unfortunate. I mean, like, what else do
you have to say? This is like I feel like this,
(17:34):
and we don't even talk about all of them that happened,
but it just so happens that this was like bang
bang bang. So yeah, so yesterday, so now, you know,
I just had listened to the press conference on the
Brown University thing and was just like, Oh my god,
like what is happening with these police and these press
conferences and stuff. And then I hear, oh, there's gonna
be one on Rob and Michelle Reiner. So first it
(17:59):
came out that there was an emergency call. I guess
the paramedics or the fire department were called to Robin
Michelle Reiner's house, and then the fire department had called
the police to come. So clearly they saw something that
they thought the police needed to be involved. And they
(18:21):
weren't releasing their names at first, but they were saying
that the victims were both There were two people who
were dead, and one was sixty eight and one was
seventy eight, which just so happened to be their ages,
and they were the homeowners of the house. I don't
know why, and maybe it's we could talk about this
(18:44):
a little bit more in a minute about Gene Hackman situation.
I just my first thought wasn't that they were murdered.
I don't know, I don't know why, Like I just
I find I found it to just be like a
little shocking. When the press conference, right before the press
conference happened on the news, they were talking to a
(19:05):
reporter on the ground and she had said that they
were stabbed to death, and I was like, oh shit,
Like well, I.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Think too with Gene Hackman, and I always think of
Bob Saget, like they were just these weird things that happened,
but everybody was so convinced there was a crime behind it.
And even still we have all the autopsy reports and
the investigation everything, and people are just like, yeah, I'm
not buying it's something else happened. And it's like, no
(19:33):
celebrities or normal people too, and things happened to them.
But yeah, this was incredibly surprising. I understand why, even
though it was so obvious it was them, why they
might not want to release that information immediately, because maybe
they hadn't notified everybody in the family yet. But it's
just really sad because it seems like the daughter, their
daughter went to their house in the afternoon and found
(19:56):
them like that, and that's who placed the call. And
then we actually wrote this up as our dissection today,
but the reports coming out now or that she immediately
told the police that her brother should be a person
of interest and that he was dangerous, and her brother,
Nick has now been arrested. He is in custody and
being held on four million dollar bail.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
If you are like the number one suspect in a
Dumble homicide, why is there a ball. Why, Well, we
asked this all the time, and I think somebody on
YouTube actually worked in the field and they said that
some states that's just the way the law is, Like
(20:37):
there's always bail depending where you live. And obviously for
a regular for a regular person, four a million dollar
baill is like, Okay, that's so astronomical, nobody'll ever be
able to come up with that. But when your father
is estimated to be worth over two hundred million dollars
probably and it's probably way more than that, to be honest,
(21:00):
Rob Reiner is like he made some of the most
famous Yes, he's like at the top of the line
of a list, celebrity elite, Like he's probably worth so
much more money. But like, so four million dollars is
like four thousand dollars to regular people. Like it's it's
still a lot of money, but like not really in
(21:20):
the grand scheme of things, So that that's just one
thing that's kind of I mean, assuming he doesn't have
access to that probably and I'm sure if his siblings
think that he killed their parents, they're not giving him
the money to get out. But still it's just like
still a possibility, which I don't like because clearly, like
(21:45):
let's just say, theoretically, he could come up with the money,
so he's allowed to get out when he's I mean,
clearly he's on.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, well yeah, and now all this information's coming out
that he had drug addiction issues since he was a teenager.
Thirty two now, so he had drug addiction issues since
he was a teenager, and he had experienced bouts of homelessness.
I guess I didn't read too much into this, but
what I was gathering was that they tried everything in
their power to put him in rehab and everything, but
(22:13):
sometimes he wouldn't go to the facilities, so instead he
just chose homelessness over that. And then this eerie clip
is resurfacing of I guess when he recovered. At some
point about ten years ago, he and Rob Reiner, his dad,
co wrote a movie that was semi autobiographical about his issues,
(22:35):
and this interview is resurfacing where they're talking about their
rocky relationship. And now when you put it into perspective
of he, I mean, I guess he's not convicted yet,
so we have to say he allegedly killed them, right,
It's just really disturbing to think about, and when you
look at pictures of this guy and videos of him talking,
he's just like not home and it's very.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
He he is like creepy as how honestly, Like you're
you're looking at it and you're just like, yeah, this
guy like looks unstable. And the fact that the sister
had said that he's dangerous, it's like, oh, they've been
having issues with this guy for a while. And you know,
we always talk about that, like when someone's murdered and
(23:16):
the police will remember when we were talking about the
Jodiarius trial and Travis Alexander, or her ex boyfriend, was
found dead and the police went to his family and
his friends and were like, do you know anybody that
would have wanted hurt him? And every one of them
was like, Jody, yeah, there's like the daughter was probably
(23:37):
like I know who did this? Without even knowing who
did this, because I mean, Rob Reiner's like I know
that he's sometimes he's a little bit controversial with his
politics or whatever, but like I feel like he's like
a beloved figure in Hollywood, and you wouldn't really think
that a person of his means and and everything that
(24:01):
anybody would even have access to get into his home
to kill him like that, But it makes sense obviously
that it was his kid.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well yeah, and then there's you know, yeah, I completely
agree with you on that, And then there's like all
this drama over the search warrant they're trying to get,
and our friend Joe Jackaline posted a video trying to
explain it and was saying like, sometimes it could be
an issue if the person of interest lives inside of
the home where the crime occurred, right, so you have
(24:28):
to wonder was he living with them at that time?
I mean even just the night before Saturday night they
were at Conan O'Brien's holiday party and they were seen arguing.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Well, listen, I think the more and more time that
goes on in all these cases, and especially with things
getting leaked to social media so easily and stuff, I
do understand that police forces want to like check boxes
extra at this time because if you think about it,
like it just last week talking about what was going
(24:58):
on with Luigi Mangioni and stuff, and them, their defence
is trying to get them to drop a lot of
evidence because they were saying a lot of it was
found with an improper search warrant and stuff. That's the
kind of stuff that scares police departments to be like,
you know what, We're just gonna take this extra time
to do this to cover our ass because we don't
(25:18):
need to lose this case because we didn't collect the
evidence properly. Right, Oh totally, So, so that makes sense,
So let's talk about So then the police do this
press conference and they don't say anything, which is so
bizarre because before I was listening to that press conference,
(25:40):
I had already seen that People magazine said from a
reliable source that it was in fact Rob Reiner and
his wife Michelle who were dead. It was a double
homicide and their son had killed them. Right, So they're
reporting that in print People Magazine like really had I mean,
I don't think that or like the cream of the
(26:01):
crop news source. But at the same time, they also
are pretty legit and they they have to cover their
ass and they wouldn't put that out there if it
wasn't true. Right, So they have like a very reliable
source that was telling them that, and then they do
this press conference with the cops. The cops won't say
if it was a homicide. They won't say it was
Rob Reiner and his wife even though the reporters had
(26:24):
cited the People magazine article and one of them said,
the mayor of Los Angeles just put out a tweet
about Rob Reiner and his wife being dead. You can't
confirm that, and he's like no. It was like, dude,
it was out of control. And that's why I was
texting you, like, yo, you are missing this, Like wake up,
Like we have a lot to talk about tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I guess like my new pregnancy bedtime at nine pm
is not good for free My god.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I was like, what is happening right now? And this
was like five minutes after the Brown University press conference.
I was just so overwhelmed. I couldn't because I was like,
oh my god, this is so like crazy and exciting
at the same time, Like it just was crazy. The
police also wouldn't say They were like, you're not getting
that information until the coroner goes in and identifies the bodies.
(27:13):
You will get that directly from the corner. They wouldn't
say anything about that it being a homicide. They wouldn't
say anything. So one thing that I wanted to bring
up was that it was interesting that they said that
the coroner wasn't there yet. So when they were doing
that press conference at around midnight our time, the bodies
(27:34):
were still in the house, and I believe that this
crime occurred in the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, they were founding like three point thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So, and he was saying that he didn't know when
the coroner was about to get there or if they
were there yet, like there was all this stuff. So
that was one thing that I wanted to talk about
today on this episode because a lot of people, well
I guess, assume that a coroner or a medical examiner
(28:05):
would goes to every single scene, and in fact that's
not correct. So it all over the country there's either
a medical examiner system or a coroner system, which are different,
and we talk a lot about those differences in the grossroom.
But basically, if you think about it, so many people
(28:25):
die in the United States every single day, it would
be impossible for the coroner or the medical examiner to
go to every single crime scene and look at it.
So that's why they have a whole entire staff of
people like our friend Joseph Scott Morgan, who are forensic investigators,
and they go out to the scene. They're the ones
(28:47):
that go they document evidence, take photographs, interview witnesses, gather
medical history and all that kind of stuff, and they're
kind of like the eyes and the ears for the
medical examiner, and then they go back and show their
findings to the medical examiner so they could help complete
the case. But for example, when in Philadelphia, the medical
(29:11):
examiner never left the morgue, only to go to very
high profile cases, one of which I recall was when
the Amtrak train derailed in Philadelphia, and that's when they
would go to the scene because that was going to
be a huge case. So something like one of the
most Hollywood elites getting murdered is up there with Okay,
(29:34):
the coroner is going to get in a car and
go to the scene, right because this is like a
huge deal. So I'm assuming that's why they were waiting
for them to get there. I'm sure that there were
already investigators there, just the actual doctor who was going
to be signing out the case was still waiting to
go there, perhaps just because they really, like I said,
(29:54):
they really want to cover their ass and stuff. So
talk a little bit about because I guess I was saying,
you know, whenever you hear of two people dying together,
there's all different situations, And as Maria was saying earlier,
when we were talking about Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa,
(30:17):
obviously everybody in the media first went to like, oh,
this is suspicious and this is a murder, when in
my mind I was thinking other things, because there's lots
of different things that could happen. Of course, in the
case of Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa, they were actually
both deemed to be natural deaths. If you recall, Betsy
died from the rare haunted virus and was the primary
(30:39):
caregiver of Gene Hackman, who was elderly and living with dementia,
so after she died, he didn't have a caregiver and
then he subsequently died, So in that case they were
both ruled natural. But there are other cases where people
two bodies are discovered together and it could be something
like an accidental death, they died from carbon monoxide exposure.
(31:02):
It could be suicidal deaths like it was they both
decided to kill themselves together, or they had a murder suicide,
or it could be like in this case, which is
a homicide. So there's all different sorts of scenarios that
could happen when two people are found dead together.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah. I also wanted to say too with the coroner
thing you were talking about, Like, I feel like that
episode we did about Thomas Negucci, you really see that
in his book, like all the crimes he would go
to because he really talked about that process.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah. And the thing is, though, is Thomas Nogucci's a
good example, like he did rfk's autopsy, Marilyn Monroe, all
these uh Garantate, Scharantate and what was what's her name?
Natalie would right, huge huge cases that that's when the
(32:00):
coroner would go to the scene, but he didn't go
on the average Joe that got shot on the street. Like,
trust me, they don't go to every single one. So
just like high profile cases, it just so happens when
you're in LA. I mean, there's just a higher probability
of there being more high profile cases. So I guess
first let's start with I do want to talk about
like once they take the bodies to the morgue, what
(32:23):
are they going to look for and how are they
going to determine what happened. So we haven't had exact
a release of specific manner of death and cause of
death from the LA Coroner's Office as of this point.
So all of this is just reporting and as we know,
reporters get it wrong a lot of the times. So
(32:46):
as of right now, we're treating it as a homicide
that was a sharp injuries cut their throats. But there's
just so many other things to look for at autopsy.
So first let's talk about they're going to look for
evidence of trauma obviously, and TMZ reports. So you know
(33:07):
how people say, oh, this is a you know, someone
died of a cardiac arrest, right I did. I actually
saw someone posted online that showed a screenshot from the
police or the police and fire department have You know
I should know this because I'm married to a firefighter
(33:28):
whatever whatever that system is that beeps on my husband's
phone all day that.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And you can't even ask him because you don't have
four hours if you're life.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yes, it's a it's a huge it's just a huge
joke in our house because I always tell him that
it needs to be turned off when he's home because
he's not at work anymore. That listening to the radio
or whatever the dispatch you. So they show a screenshot
of it that shows that the that the Los Angeles
Fire Department reported to Rob Reiner and Michelle Reiner's house
(33:59):
for a cardiac arrested. Okay, so yeah, obviously they got
stabbed to death, so their heart stopped. Yet, Okay, thanks
for that information.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Do you but you possibly say that as like code word? Well, no,
I don't think it's a code word. I just think
that or like it's just such a no, I just
didn't realized term for like, yeah, like the daughter called
and it's like, oh my god, like I just got
to my parents' house and both of my parents are dead,
like so they so they just say, you know, the
(34:32):
daughter's not the daughter's not doing an autopsy external exam
on the people.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
She doesn't know how they died. They two people are
down and they're probably dead. They're heart stopped.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Like well, yeah, maybe that's what That's what I'm trying
to say it, Like, maybe they're saying it in the
proper generalized term of like there's two dead people at
this house, but.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
The cardiac arrest doesn't. I mean, technically it means your
heart stopped, but people can be revived from cardiac arrest,
you know, So it's like it's just like the dispatch
doesn't know. They don't know, so all they do is
they know two people are down, and it's like the
ambulance needs to get there quick because they might have
to either try to resuscitate them or analyze what's happening
(35:12):
like someone's in great, in great danger basically, right. So
this is my second most hated terminology that media uses.
So TMZ, Rob and Michelle suffered lacerations consistent with knife wounds,
and LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division is investigating the case. Okay,
(35:34):
So in the gross room, as Maria said earlier, we
did a high profile or celebrity death dissection on Rob
Reiner and Michelle Reiner today with as much information as
we have going over all this stuff we'll be talking
to you about on the episode, so you can really
see pictures of autopsies to see like what this stuff
actually looks like. And a laceration is caused by blunt
(35:57):
trauma like a baseball bat, it's not caused by a knife.
They should use terms like rob and Michelle suffered sharp
force injuries or Robin Michelle suffered incisional wounds, Like I
understand the word laceration sounds gorrier and it sounds cooler,
but like it's wrong. Stop using it. You sound like
a frickin' moron. It drives me crazy. So then I
(36:18):
go into this post talking about stab wounds and what
they look like and why they have a very specific appearance,
and then we're gonna go we go through in this
post every single thing that they're going to be looking
for at autopsy, as long as like what these things
actually look like. So, what did the blade look like,
what kind of knife was used? Was the same knife
(36:38):
used for all of the injuries? How many stab wounds
were there? Was it overkill? There is? So overkill and
homicides is defined as a massive amount of injuries that
far exceed what is needed to kill a person. So
is that a possibility here? Yeah, because they're seen in
cases with family high levels of betray i, anger, jealousy, domestics,
(37:03):
So there is a possibility that they're signs of overkill.
Fourteen percent of cases of homicides are caused have overkilled
in them, and they're very gruesome in nature, so it
would be you know, it wouldn't be out of the
question in my opinion. And then we go through like, Okay,
so we know, we're saying that they have some stab wounds,
(37:26):
right with which one caused their death, because sometimes, like
let's say a person's cause stab thirty times, they're not
going to have thirty things that would have been a
way to kill them. Usually it's like there's a lot
of superficial ones. That's why you're stabbing a moving target.
They're moving, You're not hitting an artery and causing them
to go down, so you're just stabbing wherever you're going.
(37:48):
And most of the time people that are doing this,
they don't really know anatomy, so they don't know the
best place to go to get a person down the
quickest and things like that. And then you have to
think that people are fighting back, so you're going to
look at their hands to see if there's defense wounds
and if they put up a fight. So what stab
wounds caused their death? Non fatal stab wounds. So, for instance,
(38:09):
I show an example of like what it looks like
if there's a stab wound to the stomach right and yes,
eventually a stab wound to the stomach that was open
and pouring gastric contents into the abdominal cavity would eventually
cause someone a lot of problems and would could cause
infection and sepsis that would lead to death. But that's
(38:29):
nothing that's happening super quick that the person's just going
to drop dead from. So you're going to see a
lot of injuries of another one I showed as a
person that has this large incisional wound across their head
that you could see their skull exposed. And although it
looks very gruesome, it wouldn't cause a person to die
(38:50):
on the scene like that. So you're going to have
to look for what was the wound that actually caused
the person to die, And for example, that would be
a stab wound to the heart and obviously getting sliced
across the carotid arteries of the neck. Now, there's been
times where people have been stabbed to death and then
(39:13):
had their throat cut after they were already dead, so
and that would be seen in more cases of overkill
that you would see more stab wounds occurred after the
person was already clearly dead and not fighting back anymore.
So when we talk about neck wounds, and if this
is true, if they were sliced across the neck, that
(39:35):
doesn't necessarily mean that that's what killed them, because you
could have a fatal neck wound and you could have
a non fatal neck wound. And I show the difference
between them and this post. When you're talking about your
neck anatomy, when you feel the front of it, especially
on a man, where the Adams apple is, that's the
larynx or the windpipe. Right behind that is the esophagus
(39:55):
right and then right next to either of those structures
is the uhtid. Are the carotid arteries and the jugular
veins the arteries. Of course, if they get cut, that's
going to be really what causes a person to die
and to bleed out for two different reasons. Number One,
the carotid arteries are major arteries that come directly off
(40:19):
of the aorta. They're very close to the pump of
the heart, so blood is going to be coming out
of that whole more forcefully just because the pump is
right there. And then the second mechanism of death in
that particular case is that those arteries are also bringing
oxygenated bloods to your brain. So if you're cutting off
(40:39):
that line of the oxygen getting to your brain, that
could also cause death very quickly. For both of them.
A jugular vein might they You know, a vein in
general is a little bit of a slower bleed, so
you could possibly survive something like that if you're brought
to the hospital right away. Corotid injury like that, like
(41:04):
you're dying from that. It's a very fatal wound. And
then of course I reference in this post Nicole Brown
Simpson because as you guys remember whoever killed her or
didn't kill her, she was nearly decapitated, so the knife
went so far back to her neck that it actually
(41:26):
nicked and severed a portion of her spinal cord, which
could also cause death as well. So the deeper that
you go in a throat wound at the right angle
could kill someone either by the carotid arteries or by
the spinal cord. But then in this post I show
another really gnarly neck wound. If you remember, one of
(41:47):
our grocery members and also listeners of this program had
sent us in a case of her daughter. I think
we did it on a six Shocking Stories episode. Her
daughter had fell on a can, and the lid of
the can is a sharp it's essentially a knife. Right
when you open a can she felt on it somehow
(42:08):
in a weird accident, and it sliced a huge gash
in her neck. But luckily it didn't hit any of
her blood vessels or her spinal cord. It didn't go
that deep. So even when you look at the neck wound,
it's very gnarly, but it didn't cause an injury that
would have killed her. So that's all different things that
they're going to be looking for during this autopsy. They're
(42:29):
also going to be looking for post mortem stab wounds,
so that means, like like I said earlier, after the
person's dead, that they were still getting stabbed. And another
thing to take into consideration is that they're going to
be looking for other wounds too. So as Maria was saying,
they were at Conan O'Brien's, you've said this right, Yeah, Okay,
(42:53):
they were at Conan O'Brien's holiday party and they were
fighting with their son. I guess I'm assuming that me
is arguing. But when they went home, did that fight
continue and did it turn into a fistfight? Before it
turned into this or another type of fight, they could
have been beaten with an object or something like that.
So they're going to look for evidence of blunt injuries.
(43:16):
Now we could talk about they might have seen lacerations
their favorite word, also broken bones, contusions or bruises and
things like that. And in here I show a case
of a person that did have multiple stab wounds, but
they also have evidence that they were strangled as well,
so there can definitely be two different mechanisms of injury
(43:38):
in these cases. They're also going to look at toxicology
just to see if Rob and his wife were under
the influence or drugs or alcohol. Although I feel like,
who cares, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
If you like to murder them, what's the difference.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
The thing is, though, is that they they they would
use that in court when the son's crying, like, oh
they were alcoholics and they were abuse, you know whatever.
They could they use that information for that because sometimes
that's contributory. I don't see how it would be in
this case. But they also want to check to make
sure that like let's say, for example, they do these
(44:14):
autopsies and they don't see any defensive wounds, then they
might say, well, that's weird. Why weren't they fighting back? Oh,
they were drugged before they were stabbed, and all this
stuff like really doesn't. It matters more for court for
the court case rather than just like for actually saying
that they were just innocent people that got stabbed to death.
And then the lastly, they're gonna look for evidence of
(44:35):
natural disease. Usually if they're in there, they're just gonna
look anyway, and they're gonna weigh the heart, see see
how much it weighed, if there was any evidence of
like heart disease, look for any tumors and things like that. Obviously,
like at this point those things are non contributory, but
sometimes they are. So in cases of a person, like
let's say a person's driving their car and they get
(44:57):
in a car accident, and then a lot of people say, well,
why would you even do an autopsy? You know, they
died as a result of the car accident. But then
sometimes you do the autopsy and you open up the
brain and you see that they have a tumor, and
then you're like, oh, well, maybe that brain tumor was
actually the reason that caused them to have this car
accident or a heart attack or something like that. So
sometimes natural disease is contributory and forensic cases, but in
(45:20):
this particular one, I don't think it's going to be
contributory at all.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
No. I mean this is already what has it been,
not even twenty four hours, and this is already so
much information.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, and I mean like we're gonna hear more for sure,
And it's just, you know, it is it's just really
unfortunate because when you watch and we have all this
linked in the post and the grocer room as well,
but when you watch this interview with the Sun, you
just think like they're being open in this interview about
(45:54):
the struggles, but nobody really truly understands the struggles that
people are going through hind closed doors. And obviously being
such a public, well liked, well respected Hollywood figure, they
don't air nowhere near all their dirty laundry. And I
just keep thinking like this daughter, like just what the
(46:17):
other children who are are more living through this as well,
their whole life have been dealing with this with their brother.
Only for it to end like this is just it's
just like such a huge weight on your heart. You know.
I used to work with a woman who had a
daughter closely with a woman who had a daughter who
(46:37):
had a heroin addiction, and I mean it really, really
really destroyed her for years. It was just constant, like
just not hearing from her daughter for days, never knowing
when she was getting that call. And then she finally
got that call that she was dead, and honestly, she
told me she was relieved. Like that's terrible to think
(46:59):
about your child, but like, I mean, like it's so
much when there's someone like that's so volatile in your
in your family like that, and to think that that
they have to I mean, your parents both dying at
the same time is just terrible anyway. Your parents getting
murdered is terrible anyway, but to think that your brother
(47:19):
did it is just like.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Well, and they're not normal people either, so like this
isn't going away anytime soon, and I doubt they're going
to be able to grieve in private at all.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And I mean every and it seems like, I mean,
Billy Crystal was outside of the house. Larry David like huge,
huge stars just and and listen, like anybody that's close
friends with these people are probably not surprised if they
really know what's been going on in their life. Because
(47:50):
I think the sister's words of saying that he was
dangerous makes me think that there's been threats before, and
there's been situations before that they have and keeping private.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Oh totally.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So I think that's all for today. We could obviously,
like it's the afternoon on Monday, and by tomorrow, who
knows what else we'll know about this case and maybe
we'll briefly discuss it again. But we just couldn't wait
until tomorrow to get you this news.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
No, and it just really quick to wrap this episode up.
The crazy news weekend didn't end there because oh yeah,
like exactly. I'm like, you're like, you're wrapping up of
like we have a whole other thing.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
We I seriously totally texted Maria today the Moreton Salt girl,
like when it rains, it pours, it's just to think
about everything that's happened in the past twenty four or
so hours is just out of control, all.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right, So we haven't. I don't think we've covered this
case on here at all. I don't remember if we
talked about it when it first happened, but I don't.
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
I thought I thought we did because we did actually
because we talked about his text messages.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Well, we talked about him on the YouTube live. But
I don't think we did it on this show, Okay,
So okay, so just really quick because we will be
covering this more at length, especially in the grocery. We're
going to do a whole disection on it too. But
this guy, Brian Walsh, was just on trial for the
murder and dismemberment of his wife, who was last seen
on New Year's Eve in twenty twenty two. So they're
(49:25):
thinking she died New Year's Day twenty twenty three, so
her body was never found and he's been on trial
for her murder. They think he dumped her body in
a nearby dumpster, which was nearly impossible to find. They
didn't find anything, So he's been on trial for the
past couple weeks, and this morning he was found guilty.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah. I mean, and like, listen, how are they not
going to find this guy guilty? Obviously he's guilty. I mean,
there's who else goes to Low's and is on video
buying a half hat, salt.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Buckets, buckets, cleaner and rags for four hundred and a
high vex suit, a tigh vex suit. Yeah, and then
other information came out that she was having an affair
her life insurance policy was worth five hundred thousand dollars.
They had three sons that were really young. It is
extremely disturbing this case, and I can't wait to line
(50:23):
out all the details because it just gets even worse.
Like he had these terrible Google searches, one of which,
for example, for shortness of this episode, is ten ways
to dispose of a dead body if you really need to. Okay,
you're not guilty at all. He also was searching something
to do with porn that had to do with affairs.
But yeah, he was found guilty of first agree murder
murdered this morning and he's facing life in prison without parole,
(50:47):
and his sentencing hearing is set for Wednesday morning.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, so we'll do a high profile depth of section
on this in the gross term at some point too,
just because it's a little bit it's a little bit
different with the Google searches are just like super interesting
to me, and it's amazing to me that there's not
some kind of system. I guess that triggers that. But
I also was saying in the grocery beide jail, Yeah,
(51:12):
I mean, but the thing is is that I feel
like it's quite obvious that we do this for a living,
and some of my searches are because of that. Whereas
if you just have a person that's just like searching
for porn and searching for like how to get to
lows and things like that, and then all of a
sudden they have searches about like how to get rid
(51:32):
of a dead body, what to do with a dead body, this, that,
and the other. You'd be like, Okay, this is a
little weird, like what does anybody want to do with
this information? So, but I mean that's the good and
bad part of the Internet because sometimes, I mean think
about it, like sometimes you'll just be like sitting around
with your friends and talking about something that's like really weird.
(51:52):
And I mean even when we went to dinner with
our East Coast True Crime family on Friday night, we
saw our friend Barbara Butcher and we were like, hey,
we have a question if somebody puts body parts into
a dumpster actually was pertaining to this case, because he
did say that he dismembered her body and put it
(52:14):
in trash cans and it went into a dumpster. The
problem is is that they don't know what day it was,
They don't know there would just be no way to
figure out like where all those dumpsters took the bodies
and find the body parts in the landfill. And but
there are definitely cases of investigators going to landfill looking
for body parts. So we said to Barbara, who we've
(52:36):
interviewed on the show before. She has a true crime
show on Oxygen channel, Death Investigator, The Death Investigator, which
is on Oxygen, and she just told me that it's
streaming on Peacock as well. So we were like, Hey,
what happens if there's a body that gets put into
a dumpster and it goes to a landfill? Like who
looks for that? Is that the cops? Is that the
(52:57):
coroner's office? Like what's happening there? And and like if
we didn't see her that night, we could have googled it.
People are just curious about stuff like that. That doesn't
mean that we're trying to kill somebody and put them
in a dumpster, and like, you know, but in this case,
there's just so much evidence against him. So so yeah,
(53:18):
well and like obviously if we hear more about that too,
but tune into the Gross Room within the next I
would say month or two, because we're going to do
a deep dive on that and all of the investigation
that they found, and because in that particular case, when
they don't have a body, and the defense was saying, oh,
(53:39):
she died of natural causes, and I just was scared
because you know, she was having this affair and I
thought you guys would think it was me. I just
put her in the dumpster and cut her up. I mean,
technically he should only be getting charge with how could
they prove that he actually killed her when there's no
body to see if that's true. Get into all that
(54:01):
because because that defense is ridiculous. But guess what, Like
that defense worked in the Casey Anthony trial when they said, oh,
she drowned in the pool and we just put her body.
We freaked out and panicked and put her body in
the woods, Like when you could when you could give
reasonable doubt to a jury member that that is the
possibility that that happened, because you're not able to determine
what the actual cause of death was.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Dumping a body and cutting up a body or kind
of just like different because like you're taking the extra
effort to totally.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
But it doesn't matter. That's not that that that's not
murdering somebody though you can get in trouble for like
abuse of a corpse, but that's not the same the
same charges as as homicide.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
No, but clearly they had enough circumstantial evidence, whereas the
Casey Anthony case, there was enough reasonable doubt that they
didn't charge her, even though it's like, come on, but yeah,
I mean that could be argued both ways because there
was plenty of substantial evidence there. But all you need
is one person.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
You know exactly So in this case though, they just
like they weren't having it. And it's really sad because
they had three little little kids to the point where
this happened two years ago, and some of them, if
not all of them, might not even remember their parents
even being together, let alone their mom being alive when
they get older, because they're very very young.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Well, we thought we were jumping on here for fifteen
minutes to talk to update you guys about the weekend
headlines because there was just so much I mean, we
just couldn't wait till tomorrow's episode. And not to mention,
there's like fifty plus other stories that need to be
talked about in the next week or two.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Yeah, lots of good stuff coming up, So we'll talk
to you guys tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
We'll be back with normal episodes the rest of this week. Yeah.
I hope you guys enjoyed this episode, so please head
over to Apple or Spotify, leave us or review, subscribe
to our YouTube channel, and if you have stories, comments,
or questions for us, please send us the stories at
mothernosdeath dot com.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Say you guys, thank you for listening to Mother NOO's Death.
As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.
I have a master's level education and specialized in anatomy
and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I
have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without
(56:25):
the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,
and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform
people based on my experience working in pathology, so they
can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.
Always remember that science is changing every day and the
(56:46):
opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge
of those subjects at the time of publication. If you
are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or
having a medical emergency, please content peck your physician or
visit an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,
(57:06):
and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Thanks
Hi, everyone, Welcome the Mother Knows Death.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Boy.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
We've had some breaking news stories over the weekend, so
many of them that we thought we couldn't even wait
until tomorrow's episode. So we're just gonna have a quick
little episode this morning going over some of the major
breaking news stories that happened this weekend, of course the
most shocking being of Rob and Michelle Reiner. But first,
(00:28):
let's talk about what happened before all of that happened yesterday.
There were two shootings over the weekend, one in America
one in Australia that were pretty significant.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
All right, So these two shootings, I just can't even
believe what happened over this weekend. Seriously, it was like
a never ending news cycle. You know. I was doing
the stories for this week too, like changing all the
titles and stuff, and we have over fifty five in
there right now for this week.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, and I didn't even really look for any yet.
So obviously we tell you you guys all the time
that in the gross room we cover the other stories
that we don't talk about on Mother No's death. So yeah,
so let I mean, all right, let's talk about the
shootings first, and then we'll talk about what happened last night,
because that was crazy, but the stories with the shootings
(01:15):
are all so crazy, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So we had these two major mass shootings over the weekend.
So there was one at Brown University which ended up killing.
As of now, they're reporting two students have died. So
last night there was reports that they had taken a
person of interest into custody, but they have since let
them go. And one of the craziest parts of this
story for me is that two of the students who
were at the school that day this was not their
(01:38):
first shooting. One of the girls was shot in a
twenty twenty one shooting outside outside of Los Angeles out
of high school, and another student was at a school
adjacent to the Parkland High School during that shooting in Florida.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Well, I think that this is going to become more
common because most people, I mean I know older people
go to college as well, but the majority of people
that are that are at college, especially living there, are
are younger people, right, So the chances of them experiencing
this in their school life just because there are so
many school shootings every year or just increasing as time
(02:13):
goes on. That case in particular, I mean listen, like,
I don't want to talk shit because I'm not obviously
I've never worked in law enforcement and stuff, but just
being an average lay person that's just watching the news
and watching how the investigations unfolding, it just seems like
it's a total shit show. And I was actually so
(02:38):
my kids, as you guys know that I was posting
on Instagram yesterday it snowed here, like, I mean, six inches,
wasn't It's not that much compared to people that live
up north, but like it's kind of a lot here
for especially in December. So my kids had a two
hour delay for school today, which means that I let
(02:59):
them stay later last night. So I was just up
later than I normally would be, like listening to the
news and paying attention to things, and I saw that
they were having a press conference for this Brown University thing,
and I guess I was shocked because all day if
you tuned into Fox News or to CNN or anything
(03:22):
like that, they weren't naming who the shooter was that
they had in custody. However, when you're on social media,
this guy's picture was all over social media talking about
oh it was this twenty four year old guy from Wisconsin,
and he had he was I think it said that
he was in the military, and his picture was plastered
(03:44):
all over, and I thought, that's weird that someone leaked
his name. Obviously, every single person on social media, it's
like spreading like wildfire, and none of the news outlets
are actually reporting this guy's name. So I thought that
was a little weird. And then I tune into this
press conference and I was shocked when they said, oh,
(04:07):
we let the guy go and we really just don't
have this person in custody. And so now everyone that
lives around there is like, oh cool, So there's just
this crazy gunman on the loose, and now it's been
it's been days, so who knows if he's even around
there anymore, or if he's in our neighborhood or whatever,
you know what I mean. Like, it's just and then
(04:30):
they just released the footage and there's barely any footage.
The reporters are actually really calling out everyone, which is
kind of awesome because you don't see that often.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, yeah, and they're smart not reporting that person's name immediately,
because if it really wasn't that person, then the press
could have a serious lawsuit on their hands because they're
going to ruin that person's life.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Someone should definitely get in trouble.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want to say one hundred percent because just
because let this guy go, I mean, I don't understand
how they just were so off. But whatever they let
this guy go, it doesn't one hundred percent mean that
he's not involved. It just means they don't have anything
to hold him. But I'd still say, whoever leaked it?
(05:17):
And I mean, yes, this guy is a young guy
and they leaked his picture, his name, all his information,
his parents' name, everything all over online. How is he
gonna recover from that, even if it turns out that
he was completely not involved. It's just really unfortunate. And
I mean that's just going to be the way it
(05:39):
is from now on, and we're going to have to
get used to that. And I guess the same could
be said with all of the stories that we're going
to talk about today. Honestly, because social media, I found
out so many things. It's to the point where you're
just like, why am I even watching the news anymore?
I'm hearing all this shit online like sometimes hours before
(06:01):
the news even releases it.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, but that's difficult because like, for example, like sometimes
we'll see something on Instagram x Facebook, right, and we'll
throw it in the stories, and then when I start
looking for anything backing it up, there's nothing, And then
it turns out some of them are just completely fabricated.
And what you were just saying reminds me of when
that person I believe on TikTok was falsely accusing a
(06:24):
professor at either Washington State University or Idaho where the
kids were killed, of being the suspect, right, And it's
like that that professor ended up seeing that person and
they had every rate because they had no credible claims
backing that up. And now this person's all over with
all these crazy online salutes and their life is getting
(06:45):
ruined for no reason.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Well even right as us recording this episode, I have
gone on social media and see posts still circulating with
the picture of the other guy saying that the shooter
from the Brown University has been caught, And I'm just like,
I don't understand why every single influencer in the world
(07:07):
isn't taking that down now because it's been known that
he's not the guy anymore. But at the same time,
some of these posts have millions of views and maybe
they're getting money from them, so they have no interest
in taking them down.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, but the news might be slow, but it's because
they have not that they're perfect either, because they definitely
mess stuff up too, but they have a more credible
system effect checking and getting credible sources, whereas people anymore
online are just posting whatever they see and then there's
like no accountability for damaging somebody's reputation, all.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Right, So so so yeah, I mean you're right about that.
And anyway with this case, I mean we'll stay on
top of this more. And this is like I obviously
I want to focus most today on the Rob and
Michelle Reiner case, but but yeah, I don't know. I
just watched press conference last night and it just I
(08:03):
just I just can't believe. I almost feel like these
people just like don't have practice in what happens in
an emergency or something. It just seems all over the place,
and I just keep thinking, like if my kid was
at school there, how I just would not feel safe.
Like they're putting out some statement like, oh, well, the
(08:24):
shelter in place thing is lifted, because ever since that
initial call that we got there hasn't been any threats
to the public, and you're just like, yeah, but there
were no threats to the public when a guy walked
in a classroom and shot a bunch of people and
killed bunch of people. So like, your argument is weak,
(08:45):
and I understand that you're in a hard place because
you don't want the public to be panicking because you
have a whole entire area where not only the universities,
but just people who live nearby go to school, send
their kids to school around there, go to work around there,
and as of right now, we don't even know. I mean,
(09:09):
obviously it was targeted, right you don't just go in
a specific university, in a specific classroom and kill specific people.
But like, what was the motivation of that? Was it
a boyfriend killing a girlfriend and it was a domestic
situation or was it like a racial or politically moved thing,
Like like, who's the target and who needs to be
(09:31):
worried right now? Well?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, because who's to say, Like it's very busy out
right now, it's the holidays, people are doing more stuff
out there, going shopping. Like what's to say this person's
not going to go out in public and do it
somewhere else if they got so much satisfaction from that
and weren't caught.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, I really, I don't know. It's just to think
about and listen, Like the police could totally be lying
and telling us that this is the only video that
they have. But in my opinion, if they don't have
a suspect right now, and they don't have they need
the public's help to show pictures. So the public could
(10:08):
be like, we know who this guy is, so it
would be the best for them to show all of
the available evidence they have.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, but I do want to play Devil's advocate with
that for a second, because I do think sometimes they
are so pressured to release information and then things start happening,
like you're ruining a person's life that actually has nothing
to do with it, or you're compromising the integrity of
the case when they should be keeping some stuff close
to their chest.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Just based upon though the press conference, and I could
only go upon what they what they've said directly, like
it seems like they legitimately have no other film of
this guy. And I mean they post that online and
the comments are just so they're so good that just
like ripping these people. One of them showed the little
(10:56):
you know when you go to like the men's or
the women's room and there's the outline of the man
or the outline of the woman. They showed the outline
of the man just in black, and they were like, Oh,
this is the suspect at large because that's like the
amount of information they're giving us a figure of a
person wearing black. Like it's so it's just like, yeah,
that's really helpful. So they're gonna have to find them
(11:20):
other ways, obviously. And this first one they were saying
that they found through tracking cell phone records and things
like that. And then they were saying that they found
this guy and they found these guns and he was
in some hotel. So you're just like, okay, well, is
that the same guy, like what or is that just
another guy that's in a hotel with a bunch of
guns that I have no idea? So and listen, like,
(11:43):
tomorrow's another day, so there might be a ton more
information about that. And I'm texting you know last night,
it's late, I'm texting you and Lauren and being like, dude,
what is happening right now? This is such a shit show.
And then all of a sudden, this breaking news comes
out about Rob and Michelle Reiner and which which was
(12:08):
really shocking. So I guess before we get into that,
just briefly, let's talk about the terrorist. It was a
terrorist attack that happened in Australia too, which is unusual
because they are a country with some of the strictest
gun laws in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, what's really weird about this case too, is it
was a father and son pair of gunman too, so
it wasn't even a lone shooter. But they ended up
killing fifteen people during this honka celebration at Bondi Beach
in Sydney, and at least forty two people have been
hospitalized as of what we know right now. But the
police killed the father who was fifty on the scene,
(12:47):
and then the son, who was twenty four is now hospitalized.
So I wonder if he's going to give the motive.
I mean, clearly they were attacking a specific group of people,
but I wonder what other information he's going to offer
about this.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, and it's and talking about the strict gun laws,
like if you compare it to our country, it's like
when you think about some of the states that have
strict gun laws, Like when you're in Texas, for example,
you could legally openly carry a gun in some areas
and it's not very difficult to get one, whereas in
(13:21):
New Jersey it's one of the harder states to get one.
So in Australia, it's not like, like I guess right now,
if we go over to Pennsylvania or Texas, you could
just walk in a store and buy a gun like
in Walmart or something, right, But in New Jersey it's
not that easy. And it's the same in Australia, like
you have to get a license and you have to
(13:42):
specifically go through a lot of hoops to get a gun.
And I personally believe that that is a reason why
their gun crime is low, because they are very strict
of who has to get it, and sometimes if a
person wants to commit a crime impulsively, they have to
(14:03):
go through hoops and months of paperwork and money and
a process to get it, and that would take too
much time for an impulsive action. You can't just go
to the store and buy one easily like that, right.
But this so this dad actually had legal permits to
have these firearms for whatever reason that he was granted them,
(14:26):
and just by watching the video, they both know how
to shoot guns, and they both know what the hell
they're doing. And I guess the negative of this in
a place like Australia is that no one has guns. Therefore,
those people were just shooting people targets for over ten
(14:47):
eleven minutes because no one's armed there.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
But there was that viral video right of somebody taking
down one of the yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Which was which was actually so brave and the person
is such a hero. Yeah, I mean, just so brave
to do that, and he's in the hospital he got shot.
I think he didn't. I'm not sure that even realized
if there was another gunman or not. But there's some
videos circulating online that are over ten minutes long that
(15:15):
just show these people with a bolt action rifle just
shooting and shooting and shooting with just like not even
caring to take the time to do it because they
know that nobody's shooting back at them. It's so scary.
So yeah, and I mean, like children, it's just disgusting,
and like, listen, you're never even gonna be able to
(15:36):
get into the mind of a person that wants to
do something like that. But it's even like you were
saying earlier, it's just more disturbing that this is a
father son situation. We always talk about that, like how
do you you understand one person being sick, but how
do two people that think that way get together and
(15:57):
have those thoughts and decide to carry it out. There's
like not one person saying like maybe this isn't a
good idea or whatever. It's just a very it's it's
just weird. You think, like, how does that conversation even
come up?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Well, I even understand it more in this situation because
it's a father son So you don't know how this
kid was raised, if he was radicalized from the time
he was a little kid, right, But I think that well.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
His mom, his mom was interviewed and said he was
a good boy and anybody would love to have a
son like hers. Well, she's one of the she's one
of those moms.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, there's listen, that could very well be true. Or
there's also I would like to argue more than not
toxic boy moms that say that all the time. Yeah, exactly,
But I think that applies with you know, like on
YouTube live over on Friday, we were talking about this
like crazy international satanic cult that was taking these horrific
(16:52):
videos of children. And it was not just I think
it was in Australia too, but there was also another
situation in the United States where all these guys were
spread around. And in that case, I'm like, how are
these people meeting up between like New Mexico, California, and
New York and then forming this really terrible internet behavior.
(17:12):
I just don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, I don't either. So obviously, if more comes out
on that, at least in this case, they know who
the people are and I you know, they're gonna have
to trace it back and figure what happened. It's just
it's just really unfortunate. I mean, like, what else do
you have to say? This is like I feel like this,
(17:34):
and we don't even talk about all of them that happened,
but it just so happens that this was like bang
bang bang. So yeah, so yesterday, so now, you know,
I just had listened to the press conference on the
Brown University thing and was just like, Oh my god,
like what is happening with these police and these press
conferences and stuff. And then I hear, oh, there's gonna
be one on Rob and Michelle Reiner. So first it
(17:59):
came out that there was an emergency call. I guess
the paramedics or the fire department were called to Robin
Michelle Reiner's house, and then the fire department had called
the police to come. So clearly they saw something that
they thought the police needed to be involved. And they
(18:21):
weren't releasing their names at first, but they were saying
that the victims were both There were two people who
were dead, and one was sixty eight and one was
seventy eight, which just so happened to be their ages,
and they were the homeowners of the house. I don't
know why, and maybe it's we could talk about this
(18:44):
a little bit more in a minute about Gene Hackman situation.
I just my first thought wasn't that they were murdered.
I don't know, I don't know why, Like I just
I find I found it to just be like a
little shocking. When the press conference, right before the press
conference happened on the news, they were talking to a
(19:05):
reporter on the ground and she had said that they
were stabbed to death, and I was like, oh shit,
Like well, I.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Think too with Gene Hackman, and I always think of
Bob Saget, like they were just these weird things that happened,
but everybody was so convinced there was a crime behind it.
And even still we have all the autopsy reports and
the investigation everything, and people are just like, yeah, I'm
not buying it's something else happened. And it's like, no
(19:33):
celebrities or normal people too, and things happened to them.
But yeah, this was incredibly surprising. I understand why, even
though it was so obvious it was them, why they
might not want to release that information immediately, because maybe
they hadn't notified everybody in the family yet. But it's
just really sad because it seems like the daughter, their
daughter went to their house in the afternoon and found
(19:56):
them like that, and that's who placed the call. And
then we actually wrote this up as our dissection today,
but the reports coming out now or that she immediately
told the police that her brother should be a person
of interest and that he was dangerous, and her brother,
Nick has now been arrested. He is in custody and
being held on four million dollar bail.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
If you are like the number one suspect in a
Dumble homicide, why is there a ball. Why, Well, we
asked this all the time, and I think somebody on
YouTube actually worked in the field and they said that
some states that's just the way the law is, Like
(20:37):
there's always bail depending where you live. And obviously for
a regular for a regular person, four a million dollar
baill is like, Okay, that's so astronomical, nobody'll ever be
able to come up with that. But when your father
is estimated to be worth over two hundred million dollars
probably and it's probably way more than that, to be honest,
(21:00):
Rob Reiner is like he made some of the most
famous Yes, he's like at the top of the line
of a list, celebrity elite, Like he's probably worth so
much more money. But like, so four million dollars is
like four thousand dollars to regular people. Like it's it's
still a lot of money, but like not really in
(21:20):
the grand scheme of things, So that that's just one
thing that's kind of I mean, assuming he doesn't have
access to that probably and I'm sure if his siblings
think that he killed their parents, they're not giving him
the money to get out. But still it's just like
still a possibility, which I don't like because clearly, like
(21:45):
let's just say, theoretically, he could come up with the money,
so he's allowed to get out when he's I mean,
clearly he's on.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, well yeah, and now all this information's coming out
that he had drug addiction issues since he was a teenager.
Thirty two now, so he had drug addiction issues since
he was a teenager, and he had experienced bouts of homelessness.
I guess I didn't read too much into this, but
what I was gathering was that they tried everything in
their power to put him in rehab and everything, but
(22:13):
sometimes he wouldn't go to the facilities, so instead he
just chose homelessness over that. And then this eerie clip
is resurfacing of I guess when he recovered. At some
point about ten years ago, he and Rob Reiner, his dad,
co wrote a movie that was semi autobiographical about his issues,
(22:35):
and this interview is resurfacing where they're talking about their
rocky relationship. And now when you put it into perspective
of he, I mean, I guess he's not convicted yet,
so we have to say he allegedly killed them, right,
It's just really disturbing to think about, and when you
look at pictures of this guy and videos of him talking,
he's just like not home and it's very.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
He he is like creepy as how honestly, Like you're
you're looking at it and you're just like, yeah, this
guy like looks unstable. And the fact that the sister
had said that he's dangerous, it's like, oh, they've been
having issues with this guy for a while. And you know,
we always talk about that, like when someone's murdered and
(23:16):
the police will remember when we were talking about the
Jodiarius trial and Travis Alexander, or her ex boyfriend, was
found dead and the police went to his family and
his friends and were like, do you know anybody that
would have wanted hurt him? And every one of them
was like, Jody, yeah, there's like the daughter was probably
(23:37):
like I know who did this? Without even knowing who
did this, because I mean, Rob Reiner's like I know
that he's sometimes he's a little bit controversial with his
politics or whatever, but like I feel like he's like
a beloved figure in Hollywood, and you wouldn't really think
that a person of his means and and everything that
(24:01):
anybody would even have access to get into his home
to kill him like that, But it makes sense obviously
that it was his kid.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Well yeah, and then there's you know, yeah, I completely
agree with you on that, And then there's like all
this drama over the search warrant they're trying to get,
and our friend Joe Jackaline posted a video trying to
explain it and was saying like, sometimes it could be
an issue if the person of interest lives inside of
the home where the crime occurred, right, so you have
(24:28):
to wonder was he living with them at that time?
I mean even just the night before Saturday night they
were at Conan O'Brien's holiday party and they were seen arguing.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Well, listen, I think the more and more time that
goes on in all these cases, and especially with things
getting leaked to social media so easily and stuff, I
do understand that police forces want to like check boxes
extra at this time because if you think about it,
like it just last week talking about what was going
(24:58):
on with Luigi Mangioni and stuff, and them, their defence
is trying to get them to drop a lot of
evidence because they were saying a lot of it was
found with an improper search warrant and stuff. That's the
kind of stuff that scares police departments to be like,
you know what, We're just gonna take this extra time
to do this to cover our ass because we don't
(25:18):
need to lose this case because we didn't collect the
evidence properly. Right, Oh totally, So, so that makes sense,
So let's talk about So then the police do this
press conference and they don't say anything, which is so
bizarre because before I was listening to that press conference,
(25:40):
I had already seen that People magazine said from a
reliable source that it was in fact Rob Reiner and
his wife Michelle who were dead. It was a double
homicide and their son had killed them. Right, So they're
reporting that in print People Magazine like really had I mean,
I don't think that or like the cream of the
(26:01):
crop news source. But at the same time, they also
are pretty legit and they they have to cover their
ass and they wouldn't put that out there if it
wasn't true. Right, So they have like a very reliable
source that was telling them that, and then they do
this press conference with the cops. The cops won't say
if it was a homicide. They won't say it was
Rob Reiner and his wife even though the reporters had
(26:24):
cited the People magazine article and one of them said,
the mayor of Los Angeles just put out a tweet
about Rob Reiner and his wife being dead. You can't
confirm that, and he's like no. It was like, dude,
it was out of control. And that's why I was
texting you, like, yo, you are missing this, Like wake up,
Like we have a lot to talk about tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I guess like my new pregnancy bedtime at nine pm
is not good for free My god.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I was like, what is happening right now? And this
was like five minutes after the Brown University press conference.
I was just so overwhelmed. I couldn't because I was like,
oh my god, this is so like crazy and exciting
at the same time, Like it just was crazy. The
police also wouldn't say They were like, you're not getting
that information until the coroner goes in and identifies the bodies.
(27:13):
You will get that directly from the corner. They wouldn't
say anything about that it being a homicide. They wouldn't
say anything. So one thing that I wanted to bring
up was that it was interesting that they said that
the coroner wasn't there yet. So when they were doing
that press conference at around midnight our time, the bodies
(27:34):
were still in the house, and I believe that this
crime occurred in the afternoon.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, they were founding like three point thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So, and he was saying that he didn't know when
the coroner was about to get there or if they
were there yet, like there was all this stuff. So
that was one thing that I wanted to talk about
today on this episode because a lot of people, well
I guess, assume that a coroner or a medical examiner
(28:05):
would goes to every single scene, and in fact that's
not correct. So it all over the country there's either
a medical examiner system or a coroner system, which are different,
and we talk a lot about those differences in the grossroom.
But basically, if you think about it, so many people
(28:25):
die in the United States every single day, it would
be impossible for the coroner or the medical examiner to
go to every single crime scene and look at it.
So that's why they have a whole entire staff of
people like our friend Joseph Scott Morgan, who are forensic investigators,
and they go out to the scene. They're the ones
(28:47):
that go they document evidence, take photographs, interview witnesses, gather
medical history and all that kind of stuff, and they're
kind of like the eyes and the ears for the
medical examiner, and then they go back and show their
findings to the medical examiner so they could help complete
the case. But for example, when in Philadelphia, the medical
(29:11):
examiner never left the morgue, only to go to very
high profile cases, one of which I recall was when
the Amtrak train derailed in Philadelphia, and that's when they
would go to the scene because that was going to
be a huge case. So something like one of the
most Hollywood elites getting murdered is up there with Okay,
(29:34):
the coroner is going to get in a car and
go to the scene, right because this is like a
huge deal. So I'm assuming that's why they were waiting
for them to get there. I'm sure that there were
already investigators there, just the actual doctor who was going
to be signing out the case was still waiting to
go there, perhaps just because they really, like I said,
(29:54):
they really want to cover their ass and stuff. So
talk a little bit about because I guess I was saying,
you know, whenever you hear of two people dying together,
there's all different situations, And as Maria was saying earlier,
when we were talking about Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa,
(30:17):
obviously everybody in the media first went to like, oh,
this is suspicious and this is a murder, when in
my mind I was thinking other things, because there's lots
of different things that could happen. Of course, in the
case of Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa, they were actually
both deemed to be natural deaths. If you recall, Betsy
died from the rare haunted virus and was the primary
(30:39):
caregiver of Gene Hackman, who was elderly and living with dementia,
so after she died, he didn't have a caregiver and
then he subsequently died, So in that case they were
both ruled natural. But there are other cases where people
two bodies are discovered together and it could be something
like an accidental death, they died from carbon monoxide exposure.
(31:02):
It could be suicidal deaths like it was they both
decided to kill themselves together, or they had a murder suicide,
or it could be like in this case, which is
a homicide. So there's all different sorts of scenarios that
could happen when two people are found dead together.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah. I also wanted to say too with the coroner
thing you were talking about, Like, I feel like that
episode we did about Thomas Negucci, you really see that
in his book, like all the crimes he would go
to because he really talked about that process.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah. And the thing is, though, is Thomas Nogucci's a
good example, like he did rfk's autopsy, Marilyn Monroe, all
these uh Garantate, Scharantate and what was what's her name?
Natalie would right, huge huge cases that that's when the
(32:00):
coroner would go to the scene, but he didn't go
on the average Joe that got shot on the street. Like,
trust me, they don't go to every single one. So
just like high profile cases, it just so happens when
you're in LA. I mean, there's just a higher probability
of there being more high profile cases. So I guess
first let's start with I do want to talk about
like once they take the bodies to the morgue, what
(32:23):
are they going to look for and how are they
going to determine what happened. So we haven't had exact
a release of specific manner of death and cause of
death from the LA Coroner's Office as of this point.
So all of this is just reporting and as we know,
reporters get it wrong a lot of the times. So
(32:46):
as of right now, we're treating it as a homicide
that was a sharp injuries cut their throats. But there's
just so many other things to look for at autopsy.
So first let's talk about they're going to look for
evidence of trauma obviously, and TMZ reports. So you know
(33:07):
how people say, oh, this is a you know, someone
died of a cardiac arrest, right I did. I actually
saw someone posted online that showed a screenshot from the
police or the police and fire department have You know
I should know this because I'm married to a firefighter
(33:28):
whatever whatever that system is that beeps on my husband's
phone all day that.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And you can't even ask him because you don't have
four hours if you're life.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yes, it's a it's a huge it's just a huge
joke in our house because I always tell him that
it needs to be turned off when he's home because
he's not at work anymore. That listening to the radio
or whatever the dispatch you. So they show a screenshot
of it that shows that the that the Los Angeles
Fire Department reported to Rob Reiner and Michelle Reiner's house
(33:59):
for a cardiac arrested. Okay, so yeah, obviously they got
stabbed to death, so their heart stopped. Yet, Okay, thanks
for that information.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Do you but you possibly say that as like code word? Well, no,
I don't think it's a code word. I just think
that or like it's just such a no, I just
didn't realized term for like, yeah, like the daughter called
and it's like, oh my god, like I just got
to my parents' house and both of my parents are dead,
like so they so they just say, you know, the
(34:32):
daughter's not the daughter's not doing an autopsy external exam
on the people.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
She doesn't know how they died. They two people are
down and they're probably dead. They're heart stopped.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Like well, yeah, maybe that's what That's what I'm trying
to say it, Like, maybe they're saying it in the
proper generalized term of like there's two dead people at
this house, but.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
The cardiac arrest doesn't. I mean, technically it means your
heart stopped, but people can be revived from cardiac arrest,
you know, So it's like it's just like the dispatch
doesn't know. They don't know, so all they do is
they know two people are down, and it's like the
ambulance needs to get there quick because they might have
to either try to resuscitate them or analyze what's happening
(35:12):
like someone's in great, in great danger basically, right. So
this is my second most hated terminology that media uses.
So TMZ, Rob and Michelle suffered lacerations consistent with knife wounds,
and LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division is investigating the case. Okay,
(35:34):
So in the gross room, as Maria said earlier, we
did a high profile or celebrity death dissection on Rob
Reiner and Michelle Reiner today with as much information as
we have going over all this stuff we'll be talking
to you about on the episode, so you can really
see pictures of autopsies to see like what this stuff
actually looks like. And a laceration is caused by blunt
(35:57):
trauma like a baseball bat, it's not caused by a knife.
They should use terms like rob and Michelle suffered sharp
force injuries or Robin Michelle suffered incisional wounds, Like I
understand the word laceration sounds gorrier and it sounds cooler,
but like it's wrong. Stop using it. You sound like
a frickin' moron. It drives me crazy. So then I
(36:18):
go into this post talking about stab wounds and what
they look like and why they have a very specific appearance,
and then we're gonna go we go through in this
post every single thing that they're going to be looking
for at autopsy, as long as like what these things
actually look like. So, what did the blade look like,
what kind of knife was used? Was the same knife
(36:38):
used for all of the injuries? How many stab wounds
were there? Was it overkill? There is? So overkill and
homicides is defined as a massive amount of injuries that
far exceed what is needed to kill a person. So
is that a possibility here? Yeah, because they're seen in
cases with family high levels of betray i, anger, jealousy, domestics,
(37:03):
So there is a possibility that they're signs of overkill.
Fourteen percent of cases of homicides are caused have overkilled
in them, and they're very gruesome in nature, so it
would be you know, it wouldn't be out of the
question in my opinion. And then we go through like, Okay,
so we know, we're saying that they have some stab wounds,
(37:26):
right with which one caused their death, because sometimes, like
let's say a person's cause stab thirty times, they're not
going to have thirty things that would have been a
way to kill them. Usually it's like there's a lot
of superficial ones. That's why you're stabbing a moving target.
They're moving, You're not hitting an artery and causing them
to go down, so you're just stabbing wherever you're going.
(37:48):
And most of the time people that are doing this,
they don't really know anatomy, so they don't know the
best place to go to get a person down the
quickest and things like that. And then you have to
think that people are fighting back, so you're going to
look at their hands to see if there's defense wounds
and if they put up a fight. So what stab
wounds caused their death? Non fatal stab wounds. So, for instance,
(38:09):
I show an example of like what it looks like
if there's a stab wound to the stomach right and yes,
eventually a stab wound to the stomach that was open
and pouring gastric contents into the abdominal cavity would eventually
cause someone a lot of problems and would could cause
infection and sepsis that would lead to death. But that's
(38:29):
nothing that's happening super quick that the person's just going
to drop dead from. So you're going to see a
lot of injuries of another one I showed as a
person that has this large incisional wound across their head
that you could see their skull exposed. And although it
looks very gruesome, it wouldn't cause a person to die
(38:50):
on the scene like that. So you're going to have
to look for what was the wound that actually caused
the person to die, And for example, that would be
a stab wound to the heart and obviously getting sliced
across the carotid arteries of the neck. Now, there's been
times where people have been stabbed to death and then
(39:13):
had their throat cut after they were already dead, so
and that would be seen in more cases of overkill
that you would see more stab wounds occurred after the
person was already clearly dead and not fighting back anymore.
So when we talk about neck wounds, and if this
is true, if they were sliced across the neck, that
(39:35):
doesn't necessarily mean that that's what killed them, because you
could have a fatal neck wound and you could have
a non fatal neck wound. And I show the difference
between them and this post. When you're talking about your
neck anatomy, when you feel the front of it, especially
on a man, where the Adams apple is, that's the
larynx or the windpipe. Right behind that is the esophagus
(39:55):
right and then right next to either of those structures
is the uhtid. Are the carotid arteries and the jugular
veins the arteries. Of course, if they get cut, that's
going to be really what causes a person to die
and to bleed out for two different reasons. Number One,
the carotid arteries are major arteries that come directly off
(40:19):
of the aorta. They're very close to the pump of
the heart, so blood is going to be coming out
of that whole more forcefully just because the pump is
right there. And then the second mechanism of death in
that particular case is that those arteries are also bringing
oxygenated bloods to your brain. So if you're cutting off
(40:39):
that line of the oxygen getting to your brain, that
could also cause death very quickly. For both of them.
A jugular vein might they You know, a vein in
general is a little bit of a slower bleed, so
you could possibly survive something like that if you're brought
to the hospital right away. Corotid injury like that, like
(41:04):
you're dying from that. It's a very fatal wound. And
then of course I reference in this post Nicole Brown
Simpson because as you guys remember whoever killed her or
didn't kill her, she was nearly decapitated, so the knife
went so far back to her neck that it actually
(41:26):
nicked and severed a portion of her spinal cord, which
could also cause death as well. So the deeper that
you go in a throat wound at the right angle
could kill someone either by the carotid arteries or by
the spinal cord. But then in this post I show
another really gnarly neck wound. If you remember, one of
(41:47):
our grocery members and also listeners of this program had
sent us in a case of her daughter. I think
we did it on a six Shocking Stories episode. Her
daughter had fell on a can, and the lid of
the can is a sharp it's essentially a knife. Right
when you open a can she felt on it somehow
(42:08):
in a weird accident, and it sliced a huge gash
in her neck. But luckily it didn't hit any of
her blood vessels or her spinal cord. It didn't go
that deep. So even when you look at the neck wound,
it's very gnarly, but it didn't cause an injury that
would have killed her. So that's all different things that
they're going to be looking for during this autopsy. They're
(42:29):
also going to be looking for post mortem stab wounds,
so that means, like like I said earlier, after the
person's dead, that they were still getting stabbed. And another
thing to take into consideration is that they're going to
be looking for other wounds too. So as Maria was saying,
they were at Conan O'Brien's, you've said this right, Yeah, Okay,
(42:53):
they were at Conan O'Brien's holiday party and they were
fighting with their son. I guess I'm assuming that me
is arguing. But when they went home, did that fight
continue and did it turn into a fistfight? Before it
turned into this or another type of fight, they could
have been beaten with an object or something like that.
So they're going to look for evidence of blunt injuries.
(43:16):
Now we could talk about they might have seen lacerations
their favorite word, also broken bones, contusions or bruises and
things like that. And in here I show a case
of a person that did have multiple stab wounds, but
they also have evidence that they were strangled as well,
so there can definitely be two different mechanisms of injury
(43:38):
in these cases. They're also going to look at toxicology
just to see if Rob and his wife were under
the influence or drugs or alcohol. Although I feel like,
who cares, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
If you like to murder them, what's the difference.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
The thing is, though, is that they they they would
use that in court when the son's crying, like, oh
they were alcoholics and they were abuse, you know whatever.
They could they use that information for that because sometimes
that's contributory. I don't see how it would be in
this case. But they also want to check to make
sure that like let's say, for example, they do these
(44:14):
autopsies and they don't see any defensive wounds, then they
might say, well, that's weird. Why weren't they fighting back? Oh,
they were drugged before they were stabbed, and all this
stuff like really doesn't. It matters more for court for
the court case rather than just like for actually saying
that they were just innocent people that got stabbed to death.
And then the lastly, they're gonna look for evidence of
(44:35):
natural disease. Usually if they're in there, they're just gonna
look anyway, and they're gonna weigh the heart, see see
how much it weighed, if there was any evidence of
like heart disease, look for any tumors and things like that. Obviously,
like at this point those things are non contributory, but
sometimes they are. So in cases of a person, like
let's say a person's driving their car and they get
(44:57):
in a car accident, and then a lot of people say, well,
why would you even do an autopsy? You know, they
died as a result of the car accident. But then
sometimes you do the autopsy and you open up the
brain and you see that they have a tumor, and
then you're like, oh, well, maybe that brain tumor was
actually the reason that caused them to have this car
accident or a heart attack or something like that. So
sometimes natural disease is contributory and forensic cases, but in
(45:20):
this particular one, I don't think it's going to be
contributory at all.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
No. I mean this is already what has it been,
not even twenty four hours, and this is already so
much information.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, and I mean like we're gonna hear more for sure,
And it's just, you know, it is it's just really
unfortunate because when you watch and we have all this
linked in the post and the grocer room as well,
but when you watch this interview with the Sun, you
just think like they're being open in this interview about
(45:54):
the struggles, but nobody really truly understands the struggles that
people are going through hind closed doors. And obviously being
such a public, well liked, well respected Hollywood figure, they
don't air nowhere near all their dirty laundry. And I
just keep thinking like this daughter, like just what the
(46:17):
other children who are are more living through this as well,
their whole life have been dealing with this with their brother.
Only for it to end like this is just it's
just like such a huge weight on your heart. You know.
I used to work with a woman who had a
daughter closely with a woman who had a daughter who
(46:37):
had a heroin addiction, and I mean it really, really
really destroyed her for years. It was just constant, like
just not hearing from her daughter for days, never knowing
when she was getting that call. And then she finally
got that call that she was dead, and honestly, she
told me she was relieved. Like that's terrible to think
(46:59):
about your child, but like, I mean, like it's so
much when there's someone like that's so volatile in your
in your family like that, and to think that that
they have to I mean, your parents both dying at
the same time is just terrible anyway. Your parents getting
murdered is terrible anyway, but to think that your brother
(47:19):
did it is just like.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
Well, and they're not normal people either, so like this
isn't going away anytime soon, and I doubt they're going
to be able to grieve in private at all.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
And I mean every and it seems like, I mean,
Billy Crystal was outside of the house. Larry David like huge,
huge stars just and and listen, like anybody that's close
friends with these people are probably not surprised if they
really know what's been going on in their life. Because
(47:50):
I think the sister's words of saying that he was
dangerous makes me think that there's been threats before, and
there's been situations before that they have and keeping private.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Oh totally.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
So I think that's all for today. We could obviously,
like it's the afternoon on Monday, and by tomorrow, who
knows what else we'll know about this case and maybe
we'll briefly discuss it again. But we just couldn't wait
until tomorrow to get you this news.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
No, and it just really quick to wrap this episode up.
The crazy news weekend didn't end there because oh yeah,
like exactly. I'm like, you're like, you're wrapping up of
like we have a whole other thing.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
We I seriously totally texted Maria today the Moreton Salt girl,
like when it rains, it pours, it's just to think
about everything that's happened in the past twenty four or
so hours is just out of control, all.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right, So we haven't. I don't think we've covered this
case on here at all. I don't remember if we
talked about it when it first happened, but I don't.
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
I thought I thought we did because we did actually
because we talked about his text messages.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Well, we talked about him on the YouTube live. But
I don't think we did it on this show, Okay,
So okay, so just really quick because we will be
covering this more at length, especially in the grocery. We're
going to do a whole disection on it too. But
this guy, Brian Walsh, was just on trial for the
murder and dismemberment of his wife, who was last seen
on New Year's Eve in twenty twenty two. So they're
(49:25):
thinking she died New Year's Day twenty twenty three, so
her body was never found and he's been on trial
for her murder. They think he dumped her body in
a nearby dumpster, which was nearly impossible to find. They
didn't find anything, So he's been on trial for the
past couple weeks, and this morning he was found guilty.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah. I mean, and like, listen, how are they not
going to find this guy guilty? Obviously he's guilty. I mean,
there's who else goes to Low's and is on video
buying a half hat, salt.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Buckets, buckets, cleaner and rags for four hundred and a
high vex suit, a tigh vex suit. Yeah, and then
other information came out that she was having an affair
her life insurance policy was worth five hundred thousand dollars.
They had three sons that were really young. It is
extremely disturbing this case, and I can't wait to line
(50:23):
out all the details because it just gets even worse.
Like he had these terrible Google searches, one of which,
for example, for shortness of this episode, is ten ways
to dispose of a dead body if you really need to. Okay,
you're not guilty at all. He also was searching something
to do with porn that had to do with affairs.
But yeah, he was found guilty of first agree murder
murdered this morning and he's facing life in prison without parole,
(50:47):
and his sentencing hearing is set for Wednesday morning.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, so we'll do a high profile depth of section
on this in the gross term at some point too,
just because it's a little bit it's a little bit
different with the Google searches are just like super interesting
to me, and it's amazing to me that there's not
some kind of system. I guess that triggers that. But
I also was saying in the grocery beide jail, Yeah,
(51:12):
I mean, but the thing is is that I feel
like it's quite obvious that we do this for a living,
and some of my searches are because of that. Whereas
if you just have a person that's just like searching
for porn and searching for like how to get to
lows and things like that, and then all of a
sudden they have searches about like how to get rid
(51:32):
of a dead body, what to do with a dead body, this, that,
and the other. You'd be like, Okay, this is a
little weird, like what does anybody want to do with
this information? So, but I mean that's the good and
bad part of the Internet because sometimes, I mean think
about it, like sometimes you'll just be like sitting around
with your friends and talking about something that's like really weird.
(51:52):
And I mean even when we went to dinner with
our East Coast True Crime family on Friday night, we
saw our friend Barbara Butcher and we were like, hey,
we have a question if somebody puts body parts into
a dumpster actually was pertaining to this case, because he
did say that he dismembered her body and put it
(52:14):
in trash cans and it went into a dumpster. The
problem is is that they don't know what day it was,
They don't know there would just be no way to
figure out like where all those dumpsters took the bodies
and find the body parts in the landfill. And but
there are definitely cases of investigators going to landfill looking
for body parts. So we said to Barbara, who we've
(52:36):
interviewed on the show before. She has a true crime
show on Oxygen channel, Death Investigator, The Death Investigator, which
is on Oxygen, and she just told me that it's
streaming on Peacock as well. So we were like, Hey,
what happens if there's a body that gets put into
a dumpster and it goes to a landfill? Like who
looks for that? Is that the cops? Is that the
(52:57):
coroner's office? Like what's happening there? And and like if
we didn't see her that night, we could have googled it.
People are just curious about stuff like that. That doesn't
mean that we're trying to kill somebody and put them
in a dumpster, and like, you know, but in this case,
there's just so much evidence against him. So so yeah,
(53:18):
well and like obviously if we hear more about that too,
but tune into the Gross Room within the next I
would say month or two, because we're going to do
a deep dive on that and all of the investigation
that they found, and because in that particular case, when
they don't have a body, and the defense was saying, oh,
(53:39):
she died of natural causes, and I just was scared
because you know, she was having this affair and I
thought you guys would think it was me. I just
put her in the dumpster and cut her up. I mean,
technically he should only be getting charge with how could
they prove that he actually killed her when there's no
body to see if that's true. Get into all that
(54:01):
because because that defense is ridiculous. But guess what, Like
that defense worked in the Casey Anthony trial when they said, oh,
she drowned in the pool and we just put her body.
We freaked out and panicked and put her body in
the woods, Like when you could when you could give
reasonable doubt to a jury member that that is the
possibility that that happened, because you're not able to determine
what the actual cause of death was.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Dumping a body and cutting up a body or kind
of just like different because like you're taking the extra
effort to totally.
Speaker 1 (54:31):
But it doesn't matter. That's not that that that's not
murdering somebody though you can get in trouble for like
abuse of a corpse, but that's not the same the
same charges as as homicide.
Speaker 2 (54:46):
No, but clearly they had enough circumstantial evidence, whereas the
Casey Anthony case, there was enough reasonable doubt that they
didn't charge her, even though it's like, come on, but yeah,
I mean that could be argued both ways because there
was plenty of substantial evidence there. But all you need
is one person.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
You know exactly So in this case though, they just
like they weren't having it. And it's really sad because
they had three little little kids to the point where
this happened two years ago, and some of them, if
not all of them, might not even remember their parents
even being together, let alone their mom being alive when
they get older, because they're very very young.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Well, we thought we were jumping on here for fifteen
minutes to talk to update you guys about the weekend
headlines because there was just so much I mean, we
just couldn't wait till tomorrow's episode. And not to mention,
there's like fifty plus other stories that need to be
talked about in the next week or two.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Yeah, lots of good stuff coming up, So we'll talk
to you guys tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
We'll be back with normal episodes the rest of this week. Yeah.
I hope you guys enjoyed this episode, so please head
over to Apple or Spotify, leave us or review, subscribe
to our YouTube channel, and if you have stories, comments,
or questions for us, please send us the stories at
mothernosdeath dot com.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Say you guys, thank you for listening to Mother NOO's Death.
As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.
I have a master's level education and specialized in anatomy
and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I
have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without
(56:25):
the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,
and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform
people based on my experience working in pathology, so they
can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.
Always remember that science is changing every day and the
(56:46):
opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge
of those subjects at the time of publication. If you
are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or
having a medical emergency, please content peck your physician or
visit an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,
(57:06):
and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Thanks
Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News
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