October 23, 2025 • 18 mins
Nicole Angemi and Maria Kane from Mother Knows Death joins us and spills all of the tea of how our every day actions can lead to death...
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Live from the Mercedes Benz Interview Lounge.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Oh thank god, Nicole and Maria they finally made it. Yayay,
I love them. Nicole and Jimmie of course, Maria hugh
Kine Mom and daughter of course, the stars of our
Mother Knows Death podcast and the Oldestring Podcast Network. Man,
I'll just give give you a little business. By the way,
in all of our podcasts on our network, you guys
are one of the best. You guys are doing so well.
(00:25):
You're killing it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Speaking of killing it, your weekly podcast, of course, focuses
on pathology, forensics, death, and you don't do it in
an overly clinical way. You guys talk about all these
incredible fun subjects in a way we understand what you're saying,
and I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Thanks. I feel like when I was in college, I
had a really hard time understanding all of these fancy
medical words, so I had to dumb it down for myself.
You know, I'm a high school drop bell well, so
you know I had to bring it down to my level.
But I feel like that that helps me explain it
to people better.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
But both of you are I feel stupid after a
moment or both because you both are so educated, especially
you know, hyper focusing on pathology, and it's just don't
you feel like you learn something every time you hang
out with.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Them without a doubt. I mean, even if you just
follow them on Instagram or follow Mother Knows Death and
Missus and Jemmy on Instagram, you learned so much about
like mister diagnoses and all kinds of other things.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, Gonda, you brought them to us first. Yeah, you
had them on your podcast. What was it that was
so interesting to you about them that made us go,
oh my god? So you know what we were to
steal them from you.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
I love women in science number one, so that is
always exciting to me. But the stories that they have,
especially Nicole about her time doing you know, pathology assistant
research and pulling things apart. And when she said, everything
that gets taken out of a body comes to her
and then she gets to analyze it and kind of
break like, figure out what happened here, what's going on
(01:58):
with it? I was rivetted, especially when you find out
some of the things that come out of a body.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you would go in with all the pathology team
and after someone passes away, you go inside and try
to figure out why they died. So you're two.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Different There's two different divisions of our job, which is
one is surgical pathology. So any single thing that ever
gets taken out of a person's body goes to our lab.
So that could be something as simple as teeth or
a quarter a kid swallowed. Also really weird stuff people
put in their bodies.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
A lot of guys tripping and fallen in the shower.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, guys landing. One thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What's the weirdest thing like to ever come to you?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I'm sure I've said this before. It's the half eaten pair.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I don't remember what there's a storymind it tell me
half eaten pairs.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh yeah, some woman put a pair in her husband's
rectum and started eating it and it got sucked up.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, they say, ever put things in there that isn't connected.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Or broad based, like a ball and chain.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Wow, okay, but it was eaten and then.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
But what's cool though, is like you know, she was
talking about teeth, but also a bullet. You will take
that and analyze that, right, or a breast implant.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Oh yeah, we got I have gotten a bullet before.
We don't commonly get them because they should go right
to the medical examiner's office with the body. But yeah,
I mean breast implants that fail, penis and plants that fail,
things like and obviously we get other things like breasts,
entire breast if a person has breast cancer, colon if
a person has colon cancers.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So when I had my breast reduced, they said that
they sent mine out to get checked. And that's how
I found out I was higher risk for breast cancer
because everything gets checked and they sent it out when
they take it out of your body.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, so it would come to me and we would weigh,
especially in reduction cases. Sometimes the weight of it has
to do if insurance will pay for it or not,
if it's cosmetic, or if it's actually causing you medical problems.
And we cut it up and we look for tumors
and we have found incentental cancers and those. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
My thought is this, If I go into my doctor
every year for my physical, you know, they scan, they poke,
and prod and that's as bed as far as they
get blood. Of course, blood that helps. What is wrong
with the thought here? I just want to go in
as a somewhat healthy functioning guy. I want you to
put me on the table and just start digging around
(04:35):
in there and try to find something wrong with me.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Is that is that an autopsy?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I want to I want to be.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I want to as like being alive, you want.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I want to be a living autopsy?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
All right, So this is what I would recommend to you.
They have these full body ct and MRIs you can
get as it doesn't have to be ordered by your doctor.
You can go and pay to get that done. That's
as close to you're getting. No one, no doctor's going
to caught you open and just peek around and make
sure everything's.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So why not? What's your problem? We could possibly go wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Anytime you open the abdomen or the chest, you can
cause scarring and adhesions, which is how Lisa Marie Presley died.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Actually, oh what Lisa Marie Presley died because of scarring.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, from surgical adhesions.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Wow. Hey, let's talk about that for a second. Yes, okay,
So Nicole's writing a book about celebrity deaths. This is
going to be fascinating because we're fascinated with celebrity anyway,
but when they pass away sometimes we don't get the
whole story.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, and it's often times wrong. So I've been writing
about celebrity deaths actually for the past five years, so
I have a collection of almost a hundred of them already.
And yeah, I mean it's it's really interesting. So I
started writing the book and I've only done nine so
far because I have till next year to write it.
(05:56):
So I've been just doing it every couple of days
and I start. But I'm doing everyone from really interesting
ones like Gene Hackman that just died, and higher profile
cases like Lisa Marie, but also older ones like Gilda
Radner and al Capone died from syphilis. It's just so interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Wait wait, back up, Wow, al Capone, I can see.
But Gilda Radner died from so civil No, no.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No, she had a aryan kid. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
What about Amy Winehouse? Will she be in there?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Amy Winehouse will be in there. Yeah. I wrote about
her a couple of years ago because she died from
effects of the alcoholism. So it's it's going to be
really awesome. Really, it's it's comprehensive. It's not a lot
of reading, because I'm not a huge reader like that.
You could read one and be done and go back
to it. And start off. It's not a continuous book.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Like a fun little anthology. It's just like notes.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
One of the things that she said that I thought
was so fascinating. I think about it all the time
whenever we hear a cause of death now, is that
cardiac arrest as a cause of death is kind of
a cop out because everyone's gonna die when their heart stops,
of course, but what caused the heart to stop is
more interesting in what they kind of try to analyze that.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Michael Jackson was the most that's what they were saying.
He died of cardiac arrest. But cardiac arrest just meet
your heart stops, so like that's how everybody dies, right,
But yeah, so they just did it with Jane Goodall.
They just came out and said her cause of death
was cardiac arrest. I just saw it. And she died
from complications of old age, which.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, that was your favorite to you, right, because that's
how they said the Queen I died age.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Old age doesn't answer my question, like the body just
gives out?
Speaker 5 (07:33):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, what's the scientific term for the body just gives up?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And there's things that happen as you age like your
blood vessels become weaker, and you can get calcifications and
things like that which can lead to stroke and coronary
artery disease and things like that. But that would be
what you put on the death certificate. That's what would
be the cause of death, not old age.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Old age.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
I love it, and I use it in my lecture
as an example of her actual death certificate. It says
old agent.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's wild in mine too.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And you know, in the hospital and stuff, we always
have doctors that put cardiac arrest and then we have
to go up to them and say this is this
is not a cause of death, like change it, figure
out what happened and be more specific.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So it's funny though, because we had an episode coming
out this week. Actually we had another expert justicine, Scott
Morgan on our show and the two of them are
geeking out about causes of death. And we were talking
about a story where a woman unfortunately was kicked in
the chest by a student and died. And I said,
as a layperson, I'm accepting a face value that she
just got kicked and died. And they're talking about all this.
You know, she could have her heart, could have stopped,
(08:36):
she could have had a clog, all this other stuff,
and I'm just mind blown by the.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Kicked and died my gesture certificate. I wanted to just
to say, just gave up. He just gave up, give up.
He was done. By the way, you're listening to Mother
Knows Death with Nicole and her daughter Maria Stars from
(09:01):
our podcast every week the pathology, forensics, death and fun
stuff that goes along with it. In your book though,
your anatomy book, Yes, what have you discovered in your
travels as far as pathology about the brain, Like what
has fascinated you?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Well, most people don't realize this, but there's specific you know,
there's specific brain surgeons. Well, there's specific pathologists that just
do brain and spinal quarter or the nervous system. And
so when we look when we take out a brain
and look at it autopsy, we're looking for something that's
(09:39):
blatantly obvious, like they had a stroke and aneurysm, there's
a tumor or something like that, but the very specific
neurological things that could happen to people. We take that
brain and we save it aside and a special neuropathologist
will dissect it days later and look at it and
come up with a diagnosis if it's something like more
(10:02):
specific like MS or als or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes, are you saying you didn't go to class on
brain day?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
People exactly Like, it's a whole other field of medicine. Essentially,
it's just and it's it's very hard to tell. When
they slice the brain, they'll just look at it and say, oh,
this minute little thing is this and this. I mean,
you can't see things grossly with your naked eye, like
schizophrenic or something like that, but you could see Alzheimer's,
(10:31):
you could see CTE. The chronic traumatic encephalopathy is the
one that you associate with football players, you know, hitting
their head in multiple concussions, So you could see that.
But that's their specialty, and most regular doctors don't want
to deal with the brain because it's like a whole
other beast.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Wow, I bet well.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
One of the things I learned from her about the brain,
and our dentist, Elvis, he listened to the podcast and
was so happy she brought it up was how very
closely your mouth is connected to your brain, and if
you do not take care of your mouth, what can happen?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
To your brain. Maybe that's my problem. I'm possitive. I'm
going today, I'll have him do me right. Check that out?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Well, I mean essentially a cavity can kill you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It really can.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Talk about how they can kill you.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I actually had a really crazy case of a young
girl in her early twenties that had a wisdom tooth
pulled out, and then she just got a terrible infection
and we got her whole entire jaw resected that they
sent down to the lab because she had osteomylitis, which
is an infection in the bone, and they had to
(11:36):
remove her entire jaw because of it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
What's up scary? You know? I'm fascinated with the liver
because I know that that's associated with drinking and stuff.
Could you tell right away when you see a liver, like, oh,
that person drank a lot over their lifetime, and what
does that look like?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So first, when you drink a lot, you get your
liver starts to get replaced by fat and it gets
it actually gets bigger than it normally should get. And
it's really cool because sometimes when you open the body,
the liver's so big that you could see the impressions
from the ribs because it's pushing up against the ribs.
It's really I mean, it's not cool for them obviously,
but it's cool scientifically. And then once it has it
(12:14):
so fatty liver is considered to be reversible, so if
you ever get diagnosed with that, if you stop drinking,
it could go back to normal. But once it starts
scarring up, it gets cirrhosis, and then it starts to
shrink and it looks very nodular and it's very striking.
You can tell the difference and it becomes smaller, and
you also get associated things with that. You can get hemorrhoids,
(12:38):
and if there's any kind of a blockage of the
portal system, which is a part of the circulatory system
that goes through the liver, it can make blood back
up into the anus with hemorrhoids, and it could also
do it in the esophagus. You could get swelling in
the legs, you could get your spleen could get really big.
So there's kind of a pattern you see with it
(13:00):
as well.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So as you know, mother and daughter are doing a
podcast together, how much fun do you have when you
say in form of those microphones, both of you talk
to me about a topic or two you've had recently
on the podcast, where you just go on and on
because you're so excited about where you're going.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh yeah, we have fun, you know. We have some
stories where we end up going on tangents where we
start talking about personal stuff. We really love making fun
of my grandparents. They're such easy targets and our listeners
love hearing the stories, so those are always fun. Yesterday, though,
I went on especially a tangent about Kevin Federline's book
for probably way too long, and everybody didn't want to
hear about it. But I get passionate about things, and
(13:37):
I feel bad for Brittany so good yeah that and.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I have a different opinion, are you too? Yeah? So
that was like I was just like, nah, so yeah,
I just look at it like like he he bowed
her out, And this is some of the stuff that
was in that book. If it's true, is like if
that was a person that was living in your neighborhood,
you'd be like, that person's a scumbag. And she have
(14:02):
their kids, right, like, this is the.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Mother of his children, thank you, And she already has
issues that he has said she's help with So putting
this out there is not helping the woman.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And what are the kids thinking?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
How can you do that to your children?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I agree, I think he's exploiting a mentally unwill persus
thank you. And it doesn't matter if the kids are
five or forty five. I just think there's a point
where you don't keep talking about it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
But but she said she wanted them dead.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
How do we know she said that it's not there?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
How do we know she's devolving into hell? Here we go?
He said.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
She said, are there any celebrities that you look at
or people in general that you look at and you
can tell before you cut into them, before anything comes out,
that person has something going on. They're a little sick
and you know what it is?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah, like that. And sometimes I see certain things like
one of one thing is is clubbing off the fingertips, right,
So it's very unusual, and I could pick it out
on a person if their fingertips, it's the certain way
that their fingernails look on the on the tips of
(15:07):
their fingers. And you can look at a person and
just say, okay, they might have some kind of lung
pathology or heart pathology going on.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
It is something talk about like look at my Okay,
don't look at that one. A nail went through that
fingernail to ignore that one.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
No, yours look fine. They look they look very specific.
I don't think anyone here if you had them, I
would be.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Like, yo, that's good to save your life.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, I will tell somebody if I see something that
I think is alarming and she yells at me, because
I'll just say something to somebody at the mall sick.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I told stranger. Hey, by the way, I do.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
I see people all the time, and especially with the
when I was writing the book, I see such rare
pathology sometimes that I'm like, oh god, I really just
I'm not trying to be rude, like I will. I
want them to tell their story. And I feel like
I feel like I do that because a lot of
times people look really unusual and people are not nice
to them, and they stare at them and they and
(16:05):
they're curious. But people are just curious and they just
want to know. And I think the more you just
talk about all these different conditions that people could have
and just it's normal, they won't feel so isolated.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Do you have any podcast topics coming up that you
are just excited to push play on and let the
world here.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yes, we are interviewing the prosecutor from the Golden State
killer case and that is one of my favorite true
crime cases.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Talk about it.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Ugh, So these crimes took place in California back in
the seventies. For a very long time, they believed it
was three different perpetrators. So one was just a man
burglarizing houses, the second was somebody committing sexual assault, and
the third was a murderer. And through all these years
they were able to tie them to one person. Really
through the help of Patt and Oswald's former wife, Michelle McNamara.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
So she really helped reopen that case and get some
traction behind it, and she unfortunately passed away before they
found the killer. But just in twenty eighteen, I believe
they were able to take DNA from a rape kit
and they found the man and he was in his
seventies living with his daughter and they arrested him. So
that was kind of a groundbreaking case for forensics using
(17:15):
DNA in that type of way. And we are very
fortunate to have the prosecutor coming on our show.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow. It's exciting. Yeah. So next time Nate's out murdering someone,
give him a little tip, what like, what are they
leaving behind? Maybe not your specialty, but I'm sure maybe
you've seen as far as evidence on a body, what
are we leaving behind? It's going to get us thrown
in prison?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Hair is number one. And then in the Idaho murder's case,
he left behind a fingerprint on the knight's sheath. They
were able to extract DNA from that. What else are
people even by? You know, people think they're just such
good criminals, and you would think they would get better
over time with all the access to internet and these
stories we have, but they're just getting worse.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Sloppy, sloppy work, Nate. Sorry, I'll do better next time.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Surely any DNA left behind bad idea?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Who else? Oh we have? So do you remember Gabby
Petito case? Yes? Yeah, So I'm interviewing her stepfather this week. Wow,
and that will be on next next week. We're doing that. Yeah,
So we're going to really just talk about that case
and just all of the trauma their family has been
through a lot of it. I haven't heard really on
(18:24):
the news or that perspective so I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
The podcast of Course Mother Knows Death, of Course Mom
and Daughter. It makes sense to me. You guys are
always so interesting when you come see us. Thank you
so much all day. Thank you, Thank you Nicole and Maria.
Thank you so much for coming in today. The podcast
of Course Mother Knows Death a part of the Elvis
Drean Podcast Network and doing brilliantly.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
By the way, thank you work. Thanks for having us
Live from the Mercedes Benz Interview Lounge.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Oh thank god, Nicole and Maria they finally made it. Yayay,
I love them. Nicole and Jimmie of course, Maria hugh
Kine Mom and daughter of course, the stars of our
Mother Knows Death podcast and the Oldestring Podcast Network. Man,
I'll just give give you a little business. By the way,
in all of our podcasts on our network, you guys
are one of the best. You guys are doing so well.
(00:25):
You're killing it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Speaking of killing it, your weekly podcast, of course, focuses
on pathology, forensics, death, and you don't do it in
an overly clinical way. You guys talk about all these
incredible fun subjects in a way we understand what you're saying,
and I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Thanks. I feel like when I was in college, I
had a really hard time understanding all of these fancy
medical words, so I had to dumb it down for myself.
You know, I'm a high school drop bell well, so
you know I had to bring it down to my level.
But I feel like that that helps me explain it
to people better.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
But both of you are I feel stupid after a
moment or both because you both are so educated, especially
you know, hyper focusing on pathology, and it's just don't
you feel like you learn something every time you hang
out with.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Them without a doubt. I mean, even if you just
follow them on Instagram or follow Mother Knows Death and
Missus and Jemmy on Instagram, you learned so much about
like mister diagnoses and all kinds of other things.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, Gonda, you brought them to us first. Yeah, you
had them on your podcast. What was it that was
so interesting to you about them that made us go,
oh my god? So you know what we were to
steal them from you.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
I love women in science number one, so that is
always exciting to me. But the stories that they have,
especially Nicole about her time doing you know, pathology assistant
research and pulling things apart. And when she said, everything
that gets taken out of a body comes to her
and then she gets to analyze it and kind of
break like, figure out what happened here, what's going on
(01:58):
with it? I was rivetted, especially when you find out
some of the things that come out of a body.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you would go in with all the pathology team
and after someone passes away, you go inside and try
to figure out why they died. So you're two.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Different There's two different divisions of our job, which is
one is surgical pathology. So any single thing that ever
gets taken out of a person's body goes to our lab.
So that could be something as simple as teeth or
a quarter a kid swallowed. Also really weird stuff people
put in their bodies.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
A lot of guys tripping and fallen in the shower.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yeah, yeah, guys landing. One thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What's the weirdest thing like to ever come to you?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I'm sure I've said this before. It's the half eaten pair.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I don't remember what there's a storymind it tell me
half eaten pairs.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh yeah, some woman put a pair in her husband's
rectum and started eating it and it got sucked up.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Okay, they say, ever put things in there that isn't connected.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Or broad based, like a ball and chain.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Wow, okay, but it was eaten and then.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
But what's cool though, is like you know, she was
talking about teeth, but also a bullet. You will take
that and analyze that, right, or a breast implant.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Oh yeah, we got I have gotten a bullet before.
We don't commonly get them because they should go right
to the medical examiner's office with the body. But yeah,
I mean breast implants that fail, penis and plants that fail,
things like and obviously we get other things like breasts,
entire breast if a person has breast cancer, colon if
a person has colon cancers.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So when I had my breast reduced, they said that
they sent mine out to get checked. And that's how
I found out I was higher risk for breast cancer
because everything gets checked and they sent it out when
they take it out of your body.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, so it would come to me and we would weigh,
especially in reduction cases. Sometimes the weight of it has
to do if insurance will pay for it or not,
if it's cosmetic, or if it's actually causing you medical problems.
And we cut it up and we look for tumors
and we have found incentental cancers and those. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
My thought is this, If I go into my doctor
every year for my physical, you know, they scan, they poke,
and prod and that's as bed as far as they
get blood. Of course, blood that helps. What is wrong
with the thought here? I just want to go in
as a somewhat healthy functioning guy. I want you to
put me on the table and just start digging around
(04:35):
in there and try to find something wrong with me.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Is that is that an autopsy?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I want to I want to be.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I want to as like being alive, you want.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I want to be a living autopsy?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
All right, So this is what I would recommend to you.
They have these full body ct and MRIs you can
get as it doesn't have to be ordered by your doctor.
You can go and pay to get that done. That's
as close to you're getting. No one, no doctor's going
to caught you open and just peek around and make
sure everything's.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So why not? What's your problem? We could possibly go wrong.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Anytime you open the abdomen or the chest, you can
cause scarring and adhesions, which is how Lisa Marie Presley died.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Actually, oh what Lisa Marie Presley died because of scarring.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, from surgical adhesions.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Wow. Hey, let's talk about that for a second. Yes, okay,
So Nicole's writing a book about celebrity deaths. This is
going to be fascinating because we're fascinated with celebrity anyway,
but when they pass away sometimes we don't get the
whole story.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yeah, and it's often times wrong. So I've been writing
about celebrity deaths actually for the past five years, so
I have a collection of almost a hundred of them already.
And yeah, I mean it's it's really interesting. So I
started writing the book and I've only done nine so
far because I have till next year to write it.
(05:56):
So I've been just doing it every couple of days
and I start. But I'm doing everyone from really interesting
ones like Gene Hackman that just died, and higher profile
cases like Lisa Marie, but also older ones like Gilda
Radner and al Capone died from syphilis. It's just so interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Wait wait, back up, Wow, al Capone, I can see.
But Gilda Radner died from so civil No, no.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No, she had a aryan kid. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
What about Amy Winehouse? Will she be in there?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Amy Winehouse will be in there. Yeah. I wrote about
her a couple of years ago because she died from
effects of the alcoholism. So it's it's going to be
really awesome. Really, it's it's comprehensive. It's not a lot
of reading, because I'm not a huge reader like that.
You could read one and be done and go back
to it. And start off. It's not a continuous book.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Like a fun little anthology. It's just like notes.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
One of the things that she said that I thought
was so fascinating. I think about it all the time
whenever we hear a cause of death now, is that
cardiac arrest as a cause of death is kind of
a cop out because everyone's gonna die when their heart stops,
of course, but what caused the heart to stop is
more interesting in what they kind of try to analyze that.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Michael Jackson was the most that's what they were saying.
He died of cardiac arrest. But cardiac arrest just meet
your heart stops, so like that's how everybody dies, right,
But yeah, so they just did it with Jane Goodall.
They just came out and said her cause of death
was cardiac arrest. I just saw it. And she died
from complications of old age, which.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Well, that was your favorite to you, right, because that's
how they said the Queen I died age.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Old age doesn't answer my question, like the body just
gives out?
Speaker 5 (07:33):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, what's the scientific term for the body just gives up?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
And there's things that happen as you age like your
blood vessels become weaker, and you can get calcifications and
things like that which can lead to stroke and coronary
artery disease and things like that. But that would be
what you put on the death certificate. That's what would
be the cause of death, not old age.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Old age.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
I love it, and I use it in my lecture
as an example of her actual death certificate. It says
old agent.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's wild in mine too.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
And you know, in the hospital and stuff, we always
have doctors that put cardiac arrest and then we have
to go up to them and say this is this
is not a cause of death, like change it, figure
out what happened and be more specific.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So it's funny though, because we had an episode coming
out this week. Actually we had another expert justicine, Scott
Morgan on our show and the two of them are
geeking out about causes of death. And we were talking
about a story where a woman unfortunately was kicked in
the chest by a student and died. And I said,
as a layperson, I'm accepting a face value that she
just got kicked and died. And they're talking about all this.
You know, she could have her heart, could have stopped,
(08:36):
she could have had a clog, all this other stuff,
and I'm just mind blown by the.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Kicked and died my gesture certificate. I wanted to just
to say, just gave up. He just gave up, give up.
He was done. By the way, you're listening to Mother
Knows Death with Nicole and her daughter Maria Stars from
(09:01):
our podcast every week the pathology, forensics, death and fun
stuff that goes along with it. In your book though,
your anatomy book, Yes, what have you discovered in your
travels as far as pathology about the brain, Like what
has fascinated you?
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Well, most people don't realize this, but there's specific you know,
there's specific brain surgeons. Well, there's specific pathologists that just
do brain and spinal quarter or the nervous system. And
so when we look when we take out a brain
and look at it autopsy, we're looking for something that's
(09:39):
blatantly obvious, like they had a stroke and aneurysm, there's
a tumor or something like that, but the very specific
neurological things that could happen to people. We take that
brain and we save it aside and a special neuropathologist
will dissect it days later and look at it and
come up with a diagnosis if it's something like more
(10:02):
specific like MS or als or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yes, are you saying you didn't go to class on
brain day?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
People exactly Like, it's a whole other field of medicine. Essentially,
it's just and it's it's very hard to tell. When
they slice the brain, they'll just look at it and say, oh,
this minute little thing is this and this. I mean,
you can't see things grossly with your naked eye, like
schizophrenic or something like that, but you could see Alzheimer's,
(10:31):
you could see CTE. The chronic traumatic encephalopathy is the
one that you associate with football players, you know, hitting
their head in multiple concussions, So you could see that.
But that's their specialty, and most regular doctors don't want
to deal with the brain because it's like a whole
other beast.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Wow, I bet well.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
One of the things I learned from her about the brain,
and our dentist, Elvis, he listened to the podcast and
was so happy she brought it up was how very
closely your mouth is connected to your brain, and if
you do not take care of your mouth, what can happen?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
To your brain. Maybe that's my problem. I'm possitive. I'm
going today, I'll have him do me right. Check that out?
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Well, I mean essentially a cavity can kill you, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
It really can.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Talk about how they can kill you.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I actually had a really crazy case of a young
girl in her early twenties that had a wisdom tooth
pulled out, and then she just got a terrible infection
and we got her whole entire jaw resected that they
sent down to the lab because she had osteomylitis, which
is an infection in the bone, and they had to
(11:36):
remove her entire jaw because of it.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
What's up scary? You know? I'm fascinated with the liver
because I know that that's associated with drinking and stuff.
Could you tell right away when you see a liver, like, oh,
that person drank a lot over their lifetime, and what
does that look like?
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So first, when you drink a lot, you get your
liver starts to get replaced by fat and it gets
it actually gets bigger than it normally should get. And
it's really cool because sometimes when you open the body,
the liver's so big that you could see the impressions
from the ribs because it's pushing up against the ribs.
It's really I mean, it's not cool for them obviously,
but it's cool scientifically. And then once it has it
(12:14):
so fatty liver is considered to be reversible, so if
you ever get diagnosed with that, if you stop drinking,
it could go back to normal. But once it starts
scarring up, it gets cirrhosis, and then it starts to
shrink and it looks very nodular and it's very striking.
You can tell the difference and it becomes smaller, and
you also get associated things with that. You can get hemorrhoids,
(12:38):
and if there's any kind of a blockage of the
portal system, which is a part of the circulatory system
that goes through the liver, it can make blood back
up into the anus with hemorrhoids, and it could also
do it in the esophagus. You could get swelling in
the legs, you could get your spleen could get really big.
So there's kind of a pattern you see with it
(13:00):
as well.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So as you know, mother and daughter are doing a
podcast together, how much fun do you have when you
say in form of those microphones, both of you talk
to me about a topic or two you've had recently
on the podcast, where you just go on and on
because you're so excited about where you're going.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh yeah, we have fun, you know. We have some
stories where we end up going on tangents where we
start talking about personal stuff. We really love making fun
of my grandparents. They're such easy targets and our listeners
love hearing the stories, so those are always fun. Yesterday, though,
I went on especially a tangent about Kevin Federline's book
for probably way too long, and everybody didn't want to
hear about it. But I get passionate about things, and
(13:37):
I feel bad for Brittany so good yeah that and.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I have a different opinion, are you too? Yeah? So
that was like I was just like, nah, so yeah,
I just look at it like like he he bowed
her out, And this is some of the stuff that
was in that book. If it's true, is like if
that was a person that was living in your neighborhood,
you'd be like, that person's a scumbag. And she have
(14:02):
their kids, right, like, this is the.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Mother of his children, thank you, And she already has
issues that he has said she's help with So putting
this out there is not helping the woman.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And what are the kids thinking?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
How can you do that to your children?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
I agree, I think he's exploiting a mentally unwill persus
thank you. And it doesn't matter if the kids are
five or forty five. I just think there's a point
where you don't keep talking about it.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
But but she said she wanted them dead.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
How do we know she said that it's not there?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
How do we know she's devolving into hell? Here we go?
He said.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
She said, are there any celebrities that you look at
or people in general that you look at and you
can tell before you cut into them, before anything comes out,
that person has something going on. They're a little sick
and you know what it is?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah, like that. And sometimes I see certain things like
one of one thing is is clubbing off the fingertips, right,
So it's very unusual, and I could pick it out
on a person if their fingertips, it's the certain way
that their fingernails look on the on the tips of
(15:07):
their fingers. And you can look at a person and
just say, okay, they might have some kind of lung
pathology or heart pathology going on.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
It is something talk about like look at my Okay,
don't look at that one. A nail went through that
fingernail to ignore that one.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
No, yours look fine. They look they look very specific.
I don't think anyone here if you had them, I
would be.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Like, yo, that's good to save your life.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, I will tell somebody if I see something that
I think is alarming and she yells at me, because
I'll just say something to somebody at the mall sick.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I told stranger. Hey, by the way, I do.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
I see people all the time, and especially with the
when I was writing the book, I see such rare
pathology sometimes that I'm like, oh god, I really just
I'm not trying to be rude, like I will. I
want them to tell their story. And I feel like
I feel like I do that because a lot of
times people look really unusual and people are not nice
to them, and they stare at them and they and
(16:05):
they're curious. But people are just curious and they just
want to know. And I think the more you just
talk about all these different conditions that people could have
and just it's normal, they won't feel so isolated.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Do you have any podcast topics coming up that you
are just excited to push play on and let the
world here.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yes, we are interviewing the prosecutor from the Golden State
killer case and that is one of my favorite true
crime cases.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Talk about it.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Ugh, So these crimes took place in California back in
the seventies. For a very long time, they believed it
was three different perpetrators. So one was just a man
burglarizing houses, the second was somebody committing sexual assault, and
the third was a murderer. And through all these years
they were able to tie them to one person. Really
through the help of Patt and Oswald's former wife, Michelle McNamara.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
So she really helped reopen that case and get some
traction behind it, and she unfortunately passed away before they
found the killer. But just in twenty eighteen, I believe
they were able to take DNA from a rape kit
and they found the man and he was in his
seventies living with his daughter and they arrested him. So
that was kind of a groundbreaking case for forensics using
(17:15):
DNA in that type of way. And we are very
fortunate to have the prosecutor coming on our show.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wow. It's exciting. Yeah. So next time Nate's out murdering someone,
give him a little tip, what like, what are they
leaving behind? Maybe not your specialty, but I'm sure maybe
you've seen as far as evidence on a body, what
are we leaving behind? It's going to get us thrown
in prison?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Hair is number one. And then in the Idaho murder's case,
he left behind a fingerprint on the knight's sheath. They
were able to extract DNA from that. What else are
people even by? You know, people think they're just such
good criminals, and you would think they would get better
over time with all the access to internet and these
stories we have, but they're just getting worse.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Sloppy, sloppy work, Nate. Sorry, I'll do better next time.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Surely any DNA left behind bad idea?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Who else? Oh we have? So do you remember Gabby
Petito case? Yes? Yeah, So I'm interviewing her stepfather this week. Wow,
and that will be on next next week. We're doing that. Yeah,
So we're going to really just talk about that case
and just all of the trauma their family has been
through a lot of it. I haven't heard really on
(18:24):
the news or that perspective so I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
The podcast of Course Mother Knows Death, of Course Mom
and Daughter. It makes sense to me. You guys are
always so interesting when you come see us. Thank you
so much all day. Thank you, Thank you Nicole and Maria.
Thank you so much for coming in today. The podcast
of Course Mother Knows Death a part of the Elvis
Drean Podcast Network and doing brilliantly.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
By the way, thank you work. Thanks for having us
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