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October 14, 2025 62 mins

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Today, we are joined by Retired NYPD Sergeant, author, and host of True Crime with the Sarge, Joseph Giacalone! We get into the latest news with Ellen Greenberg, Joan Kennedy's death, a man who attempted to smuggle a thermos into jail, a woman arrested for giving a man a fetus in a cooler, and a drunk boating accident. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone, welcome The Mother Knows Death. On today's episode, we
have a very special guest and we're thrilled to discuss
with him some of the breaking news stories from this week,
most importantly the latest on Ellen Greenberg. Joe Jacqueline is
a retired NYPD sergeant and supervisor of a detective squad,
dedicating most of his career to conducting and supervising major

(00:43):
criminal investigations. He was responsible for managing hundreds of cold case,
homicides and missing persons cases. Joe is the author of
two books, The Criminal Investigative Function, a Guide for New Investigators,
and The Cold Case Handbook. Joe frequently he appears in
the media providing expert commentary on criminal cases and investigative techniques,

(01:05):
and he is the host of True Crime with the
Sarge on YouTube. Hi, Joe, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Hey, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Guys, thanks so much for being here. We are so
excited to talk to you about Ellen Greenberg. It's it's
really ironic that this story came out yesterday, because when
we saw you a couple of weeks ago at the
CSI training at Lake Tobias. You were in the middle
of giving your lecture and this woman started aggress a

(01:34):
little aggressively talking, yeah, trying to be nice about Ellen Greenberg,
and so I had I had messaged you later and
said I want to talk to you about this because
this is a good case. So Maria, why don't you
start off by saying the the update and giving a

(01:56):
brief description for I mean, we have talked about it
on the show, but just just to give an.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Update, yeah, I mean our listeners and anybody into true
crime will know about this case about Ellen Greedberg. But
back to the twenty eleven deaths. She was a teacher
who was in our area in Philadelphia. They have been
reviewing her case and deciding if they were going to
change the manner of death, and they have once again
decided it's going to be suicide, which I was very

(02:21):
surprised by this.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Joe, what do you think, Well, you.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Want to see my shock's face, Like, Okay, there we go.
I mean, honestly, I didn't think they were ever going
to change the manner of death. I don't think that's
going to happen unless they are court ordered to. In
that respect, but that's not the job of the court
right to investigate something as a homicide. Here's like the
background on what is supposed to happen. Originally, that death

(02:47):
was declared a homicide right off the bat. The police
failed to do crime scene and all the other things
that go along with it, and when they found out
in the morning that this was now a homicide, scrambled
they run back only to find out that the house
has been professionally cleaned. So they broke a cardinal rule.
I mean, they broke a couple of cardinal rules. And

(03:09):
the first cardinal rule is you treat every death as
if it's a homicide built proven otherwise. And the second
one is you don't get a second chance to do
it right the first time, and when you have an
investigation go that badly from the beginning. This is what
we get. Fourteen years later, we're still talking about The
family is fighting this now for fourteen years different lawsuits
that they have all won. By the way, right, they

(03:30):
haven't lost a lawsuit yet, so this case is far
from over. But I think that they still have a
tough row ahead of them to hoe because this was
another big setback for them because the current medical examiner
is refusing to change the matter of death.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
So I know the current medical examiner. I haven't talked
to her since she was a resident with me when
I was a PA, and so I haven't talked to
her about this case. However, I want to say that
I had X amount of residents that I would consider
to be good doctors, and I really thought that she

(04:12):
was good as as a as a resident and as
a fellow. I don't know how she's been in the past,
you know, twelve years, so I can't say, but if
anyone she's she was always interested in autopsy and she
was always good. I did all the I did so
many autopsies with her, and she was one of the

(04:33):
most thorough people that that I ever worked with. So
I want to say that. And I have some specific
thoughts about this too. I don't and I don't know
what your opinion is on it, but I could go
back and forth. But I'm not one hundred percent convinced
that she was murdered. But I'm also you know, I'm

(04:53):
kind of in the middle, and I could go either
way with it. So I was curious if you had
a very strong opinion of what you think happened in
this case.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
And don't worry, we won't attack you.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
No, no, Well, the best part of your lecture was
that you seem to be agreeing with the lady and
she was getting kind of attenden and you're like, lady,
I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah. Well, and that was the whole thing what she
was saying, or you know, wasn't I out of the
realm of possibility? Right? I mean, she was basically saying, like,
how could this not be? You know, here's the problem
with with what happened yesterday. Let's just talk about that first.
The medical examiner, unfortunately, is behind the eight ball. She's
dealing with a case that the body's not in front

(05:37):
of her. She's just reading from reports. She's just looking
at the old slides and the old photographs. As a
matter of fact, according to the Philadelphia Choirs, she identifies
three more stand wounds, you know, making it a total
of twenty three. So you know, she did the best
I guess she could in regards to the situation that
she's been dealt with. Now that being said, you know, listen,

(05:59):
we could talk about the police, political pressures, and all
the other things that go along with it. The problem
is that I've said this before on other cases when
the police failed to do a good investigation or fail
to do their job, these are the consequences that you
have to deal with. We've seen this now in a
few cases that have been what I refer to as
celebrated cases. Not that because everybody's happy about them, is
that these are the ones that really catch media attention. Now.

(06:23):
Stabbing suicides are not, you know, out of the ordinaries
per se, right, they're very rare, but for women they're
extremely rare, and in the matter of fact, women generally
choose a much less violent means. And she also had
the pills that she had with her. I've said this
before and I've been on the record. The key to

(06:44):
this case is that inside latch, that they have done
a better job in trying to figure out if that
thing was really broken through. That's this thing. The hold
case lies on that, because if she locked herself in there.
They had made statement in the reports that there was
no disturbed snow or anything on the veranda, and so

(07:05):
that there was only one way in and one way out. Unfortunately,
there are no security cameras in the hallways. But the
fiance has a big problem as far as I'm concerned.
He stated that the security guard went upstairs with him
when he broke down the door. The security god has
now since written an affid David and said that never happened.
I wasn't there, So to me, that's a that's a

(07:28):
big red flag. And you know, unfortunately, these are the
kind of things that should have been handled in twenty eleven,
not that Richard trying to handle this out fourteen years later.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, and I think that as you brought up with
Lindsay look re examining the case and everything, I think
a lot of the the media attention is because of
some things that were mistakenly handled at the medical Examiner's
office as well. So there was a thing going around

(07:59):
that that wound that was in the back of her
neck would have made her incapable of doing any of
the other stab wounds, and they said that she was
already dead when she had that wound put to her.
There were also so right there. I have a question.
I have questions about that particular part of it, and

(08:22):
they said that there was you know, they said there
was no hemorrhage, which means that that she was already dead.
So when I look at this case, I look at
she had stab wounds on the front of her body,
and she had wounds on the back of her body.
But according to the first autopsy, they said that her
cause of death was because of this knife that was

(08:43):
in her heart. That was the fatal wound that caused
her to die. Because a lot of people here she
stabbed herself twenty times. Now you're saying twenty three times.
But a lot of those stab wounds were very superficial.
They didn't even go through her skin. So she had
two wounds on the anterior or of her body that
could have caused her to die. So if she was

(09:04):
found with a knife in her chest, then how did
she stab herself? You know, you would say, Okay, she
stabbed herself posteriorly and then anteriorly. So how how would
that have been possible if she was already dead with
the back wound? Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Well, here's the theory, right you would, as the investigators
that you always is, you know, you show up with
the scene, you develop a theory. And one of the
theories that I think they should have been got with
she was already dead in the apartment. She was already incapacitated,
and there was therefore the lack of blood before all
these other stapounds, and that is something that needed to
have been done with the post morteminival. Now, if you

(09:42):
read that MLIS report, the Medical Legal Death Investigators, they
do a terrible job trying to tell us about the
post mortementival. They said that there's very little, if anything, unlividity.
They don't talk much about the riga mortis. They say,
it started, you know, it looked it was a little bit,
so to speak, but this was going off for over
two hours. He doesn't show up until well over two

(10:05):
hours after this person died, so we would have seen
some sign of the liver mortars. And riga mortis says,
you know, you know, it starts in the body all
at the same time, but it's noticeable in the face.
There's no talk about cloudiness in the eyes. The room temperature,
the NBIA temperature of the room is sixty nine degrees,
so it's kind of warm. She's wearing clothes, but she's
gonna heat it up. So you know, there's no algamortis,

(10:26):
there's no body temperature thing. And I know algamortis is
not the greatest, you know, determiner of the other time
of death. But take the temperature, take the core body
temperature right minus the three degrees, for you have her
based on the amount of time that she's been dead, right,
because it's usually said about a degree and a half
per hour. And then come up with something, I mean,
we have nothing done with the post mortem interval. We

(10:49):
have no long we have really no idea how long
she was dead.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
And then I guess another question I had too was
I don't know if you obviously you've seen the autops
you report, it seems as if there were two different
types of wounds. And it is possible for knife wounds
to look different because a person's moving and you know,
it's it's not a controlled environment. But in theory, some

(11:15):
of these wounds looked like some of them could have
been caused by a sharp weapon or a double edged bleede,
because they had two points on the end, and one
looked like it had a point and a blunt end
on end, which could have been I mean, in theory,
it could have been a different knife. So the knife
that she was in that was found at the scene,
we definitely know was used because it was in her

(11:37):
chest at the time when she was found, and it
had one blunt end and one sharp end, so it
wasn't a double edged bleed. So could that possibly explain
that there was that there was another weapon used as well?

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Well? It could, right, I mean, this is where doing
a proper scene investigation and including you would probably have
had get a search for it because if you suspect
that the fiance was involved in this, right unless you
get consent, which I never liked getting consent when you
think there's a good possibility that the other person could
be responsible. I just we used to say, one in doubt,

(12:14):
fill it out, get the search warrant, get everybody out
of the house. Do you all let anybody in until
they can get the obtain the search warrant, and then
you do a complete search of the house. I mean,
we don't know for sure, but we've heard rumors that
there was a bag pack right like she was planning
on leaving, and all these other things that go along
with it. So once again, if the police failed to

(12:34):
do a proper investigation, these are the kind of speculation, rumors,
or whatever you want to call it, that leave to
exactly you know where where we're at right now.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
I appreciate you bringing up those details, and like you
said earlier, the pills too, because I think a lot
of coverage of this case is completely biased and not
bringing up her history of mental health problems on and off,
all of these medications, her wanting to move back in
with her parents, going to therapy, wanting to quit her job.
And I'm not saying that proves that she committed suicide,

(13:05):
but at the same time, I think it's a huge
detail that's getting overlooked by a lot of people reporting
on this case.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Well sure, I mean, listen, you always try to find
what a motive would be if somebody would harmed somebody.
First of all, we know that we're harmed by people
we know. Most often it's devral around some sort of argument.
And I would say the trifecta, love, money, and drugs.
Those are the three things, you know. Do we even
have a toxicology report? I haven't seen it, but that

(13:35):
doesn't mean there is. And what kind of what was
in her system?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
You know, she had klonopin and ambient and when those
two are both their central nervous system, depressants and some
behavioral psychological effects include sleepwalking, hallucinations, engaging in activities while asleep, agitation,
moods changes, and depression.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Right, So then there that can meet a couple of things, right,
that she did do this to herself. She wasn't realizing
what's going on, or she was pretty much incapacitated about
what was going on also, right, So I mean this
is where you know, the investigators were supposed to shine
and be able to answer all these questions with the
help of the medical examiner. So now the medical examine.

(14:19):
This guy, doctor Osborne, who leaves Philadelphia is in Florida,
I think now right, has been basically forced to re
you know, look back his changing of the certification to
you know, something other than suicide was his response. Well,
I'm like, all right, doc, let's let's go through them.
There's only there's only five of them. For crying out loud,
it's non natural death. It's not an accidental death. He's saying,

(14:41):
it's not suicide. Well, homicide men determined are only ones
we have left, So pick one. That's what I wish
I would have been in the court room, because that's
why if I was a judge or said what because
you know, something other than suicide to me, just doesn't
fit the mold. Should this have been maybe undetermined from
the beginning, I would probably they have suggested that.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
I guess that's why I was so surprised when they
confirmed it was suicide, because there's just been her family
has been fighting so hard, and I just assumed, after
seeing all this excessive coverage between the Hulu Docky series,
Nancy Grace's book, all the coverage at Crime Con, that
they would have at least gone to undetermined. But to
see that they're holding their ground was interesting.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, at this point, I don't think they have much
of a choice, right, I mean, they've already lost two lawsuits,
and you know, as you know as well as I do.
You know, the government agencies involved in is like you know,
the I don't know if it's damaged control at this point,
whether they just look really bad in the eyes of
the public, which they do, you know. And then of
course that leads to greater speculation and conspiracy theories and

(15:50):
everything else that goes along with it. And I'm not
a conspiracy person. I never really was. I mean, I've
been involved in cases where I've been there and then
have seen the newspaper articles about it and Mendel will
these people even have the scene? I mean, like, what
are we talking about here? So things, you know, I
always said homicide investigations are like the you know, the

(16:12):
telephone game. Remember when you were kids would sit around,
you would tell the person. They keep up. By the
time they get to the last person, it's a total
different story. And it happens quite often because it's sensational.
It's something that people are really involved with. But you
have to stick with the facts. And then when you
don't know, I was I don't know, I don't know.
And unfortunately, because you know, the investigation was so limited

(16:36):
into what they did, we may never know the real answer.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
I know.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
And they're I mean, you're you're looking at it at
the police side of the things that they screwed up,
and I'm looking at at the Emmy's side like they
had so they had. Doctor Rourke was supposed to have
looked at the spinal cord and said that the injury
wasn't bad enough that she would have been incapacitated, But
then Rourke had no record or microscopic slides saying that

(17:04):
she even looked at the case, and that lady is awesome.
I've worked with her too. She would she was so good.
So and then so then when they re examined it later,
they're saying, well, there was a cut there through the
spinal cord that would have been capacitated her and there
was no hemorrhage. So that's where she said, Okay, she
was already dead when she got that wound, and she

(17:25):
wouldn't have been able to move her arms anyway. But
when I think about that, I think, well, what that
could have been made by a scalpel blade at the
time of autopsy. If you're talking about a slice through
something through with a sharp a sharp injury, right that
has no blood. That's something we could have done by
accident at the time of taking out the spinal cord.

(17:46):
And that's such a big thing that's been especially I've
heard on the news with people that just are adamant
that this is a suicide, that that this was not
She was not able to move her arms and she
was already dead when she and it's like that could
have been artifact and that could have nothing to do
with anything. And you know, but then you go back

(18:08):
and forth because you're like, Okay, she had no defense wounds, right,
just classic things you would see when a person gets stabbed.
But her boyfriend was also mad, shady and acting I
think weird.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Well, I mean, listen, if you remember what I said
just a little while ago, was she incapacitated before this,
and that would be the lack of defensive wounds, right. So,
and once again, the time of death, if if you
would have been able to put the time of death
sooner than the eighteen thirty three hours phone call, six
thirty three pm phone call, right the half an hour

(18:41):
before that, because based on the changes of the body
and everything else that you see, well, you know, now
we're talking about a whole different story and I think
a whole different investigation at that point. And remember too,
I mean, if you've read the report from the MLI report,
because I actually went to the scene, I went to
Manniyunk and I went there and it was it was

(19:01):
one of the worst snowstorms that Philadelphia has ever had
according to the news that night. And then this snow
had in the rain and the sleet had already started
when this was happening. But according to the MLI report,
the nine one one cool comes at it in eighteen
thirty three hours, and she's pronounced dead by a medic
at eighteen forty hours. So you're telling me that the

(19:22):
ambulance was able to get there within seven minutes and
pronounce her dead in a storm. And I'll tell you
if you have you driven to that location. Philadelphia is
famous for these speed humps, and I mentioned that in
the talk right call a speed hump. I don't know why. Anyway,
it's a bump, folks, for those in Philadelphia, it's a bump,
not a hump. And the issue that comes down to

(19:46):
is like, try to drive this narrow street in bad
weather and do all this in seven minutes. Go up
to get in, take.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Out the the the journey thing, Gerty, thank you, Take
out to Gerty, Get into the building, how the security
God bring the elevator down, Get into the elevator, get
inside in the apartment, and do all this in seven minutes.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
I find it unlikely. I find that that timeline is way.
That's just me, well, Manny younk.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
In particular, my husband works right by the apartment building
and it is horrible the road.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's hell when it's not snowing.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So the timeline, doesn't it
yet that place is awful to get.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
To, awful, awful to drive around on the most beautiful
day in the world. So I agree with you, it
does seem off.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, And he one of the things I thought was
really interesting is when the nine one one call, when
he was like, oh, she stabbed herself. I don't know,
it just it sounded.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah. He actually had the nerve to say that she
fell on a knife, and he has he called it
her knife.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Interesting. It's just weird because I think that if you
found anyone stabbed to death, your first thought would be
that someone did it to them. Why would you think
unless she threatened to kill herself for like, why would
you why would that be your first thought?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
You know, It's just it's just weir And knives are
up close in personal weapons. I mean they are usually
when you when you have them, they usually like crimes
are passion that people know each other very well. I
would say, strangers don't get that. Don't get that mad
at each other. You know, this is not like a
gunshot from across the room. This is something when you
if somebody is stabbed, when not saying that happens in
this case, but it generally means that it is somebody

(21:25):
a significant other that we have seen from time to time,
and that's just based on experience, of course, and there
are outliers.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
So is this guy still involved? I mean, I know
they keep revisiting the case, but I mean if he
was cleared as a suspect, then he he's just kind
of living his life and moved on from this and
doesn't have any real involvement with it anymore.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Right, Well, he's never been named as a suspect, that's
the first thing. And second of all, the police always
say that the person is not a suspect because there's
two reasons for that. One, even if they are a suspect,
you don't tell people that publicly because then there's a
chance of hiding evidence and stuff like that. And second
of all, once somebody becomes a focus of an investigation,
there are mirandaized that kick in and then if you

(22:07):
want to talk to them, you can't talk to him
unless their lawyer is present. So there are legal reasons,
there are investigative reasons, and nobody has ever discounted as
a as a suspect per se. But when you have
something labeled as a suicide, there is no suspect, all right,
it's somebody. The definition is somebody takes their own life
and that's it. There's no crime. So in that respect, yes,

(22:31):
he isn't a suspect. He's not responsible for her death
as according to the official record.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Do you find that a lot of these cases that
are such high profile, like one specific one that Maria
and I were always thinking about was the Karen Reid trial,
that you do you think that they're just there's so
much doubt because of the botched police job in the beginning, right.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well, yeah, and that's you know, when I was talking
about other cases reached leap, That's that is the case
I'm talking about, and I and I've been I was
very vocal on the beginning of that case too, and
I actually I predicted both times that she was going
to be found as a hung jury and a not
guilty only because the police once again did not do
their job that they did starting from the very beginning.

(23:18):
I mean, if you recall in that case, in the
Kara Ree case, the defense came up and said that
basically this was a big conspiracy theory, big cover up,
and then went on in the first three days of
the trial to prove how incompetent the police were. So
to me it was and I was saying this when
we were doing court tvia. I'm like, how could you
tell the world that these people are the greatest conspiracy

(23:39):
theory people but then telling them they are a bunch
of keystone bumbling cops. It just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
It is a really good point.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Well, I try to say, you know, and I kind
of pride myself in being firmly in the in the ground,
you know, in in the realities. You know, Let's look
at what we know and as what I say, we
know us at the public right where not privy to
the police reports and what was at to see. We're
only able to make determinations about what the media tells

(24:07):
us or what the court documents say. And everything that
we say, of course is opinion, right, because that's all
we can say. We don't know for sure. But I
used to do this for a living, and I and
these are the kind of things that you know, you
have to stay grounded into what you know. Let's not
get so far off into the atmosphere. And I'm sure
you know this, right when when there is a homicide.

(24:28):
You know, the detectives get together and they have like
this huddle, so to speak, and you come up with
your theories, and you come up with it, what do
you think happened? And you know, there's always say there's
always one detective that will say, you know it was
you know, some alien spaceship came into it, and you
would everyone would just look at this person and go, okay, whatever.
So and I would say, where do we get cops from.
We get them from the community. So if we have

(24:49):
the spaceship guy in the police department, we also have
the spaceship guy out in the real world too. So
you have to deal with these kind of things. And
I've said this on many occasions. I think it would
be it's very difficult for investigators to deal with the
amount of social media pressure now and the amount of uh,
you know, TV shows and newscasts that are strictly related

(25:10):
to this stuff. Excuse me, especially like you so like
the Brian Colberger case, it's a tremendous amount of pressure,
and I worry about mistakes being made because of that
pressure and people saying things in the public form, meaning uh,
you know, the mayors and the you know, and the
politicians of the police is saying something that they shouldn't

(25:30):
say because they're just trying to answer out what's going
on in the social media world.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
I was just thinking about that with with Lindsey the
the medical examiner who just recertified the death, because I'm
just like her, She's going to get attacked really bad,
Oh my godness. And it's just it's not fair. It's
not fair. Like she she was when that happened. She
was a resident with me at the hospital. I know

(25:59):
exactly where she was. She had nothing to even be
at that office yet, and it just sucks that that
kind of stuff. She was gonna be screwed either way,
no matter what she said, she would be screwed. And
it's just it's unfortunate how things go around social media
like that.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
I think, like take, for example, the woman at the
at your lecture a couple of weeks ago, right, people
are so passionate about this, and I've been seeing on
social media already in the last twenty four hours. I'm
going to look into her background, what's her husband do,
what's her family do, what's her angle? And I'm like,
she's just trying to do her job and do the

(26:37):
proper thing. We don't need to attack everybody.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Sorry if you're talking over there for a second, But
that's why I had said what I said before. She, folks,
Gene is behind the april.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Here.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
She's dealing with an oltappy that was done fourteen years
ago by someone else. She doesn't have the body. All
she has is pieces of paper and hopefully photographs and
slides and all those other things. And let me tell
you something, it's not that easy. It's like how we
would reopen when I was the commanding officer of the
Bronx cold case squad. We didn't have a crime scene
to go to. We didn't have a medical examiner to

(27:09):
talk too, we didn't have any of that. All we
had was photographs and reports, and a lot of times
the people who did the autopsies or did those initial
investigations were no longer alian, So I mean took about
being behind an april. So it's very difficult for this
medical examiner to do anything other than just looking at

(27:30):
the pieces of paper that she has and making a
professional determination. And she should not be attached to that.
She's only doing what she can do based on the
cards that she's been dealt with absolutely.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
This episode is brought to you by the Grocery Room guys.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
As we have been talking about in this episode, Ellen Greenberg,
we have a two part high profile death dissection in
the Grossroom on this case, where we go through all
of the details of the case, the police reports, the
autopsy reports, all of the changes, and all of the theories.

(28:12):
That is really spelled out for you just so much
more than we could even talk about on this episode,
and you could look at the facts from each side
and decide for yourself what you really think happened. And
I am curious to get your feedback to see what
you guys think, so you could check that out. In
the Grossroom. Every week we do a new high profile

(28:35):
death dissection, or we do a celebrity death dissection, and
this week we did psychic Sylvia Brown and it's one
of the most outrageous dissections that we've ever done. It's
really hard to believe that this woman was on primetime
TV shooting out the shit that she was, honestly, So

(28:56):
check that out.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Head over to the Grossroom dot com now to sign up.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Speaking of another botched investigation, Joan Kennedy died this week
and it just brought back memories of one of my
favorite uh deaths involving the Kennedy family. There's just so
many to choose from, but this is one particular one,
and she was semi involved. She was at least married

(29:24):
to Tag Kennedy at the time of this particular incident
that happened at chap Equitics. So would you think about
that investigation?

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, marry Djokob Petney, Right, I mean yeah, talk about well,
if you think about this, this this somewhat parallels I mean, yes,
not at the same kind of thing, but I'm talking
about with the public things as political involvement in political
political pressure. Right. So here you have the president of
the former the United States. He's a state senator from Massachusetts.
He's with a woman in his car that's not his wife.

(29:56):
He makes a specific statement the reason why his wife
wasn't fair. But there are a lot of problems with
his story that Ted Kennedy gave. And for those that
don't know, Ted Kennedy almost became president too. So, I mean,
here's the deal with this whole thing. None of the
story ends up. And the reason is this two stories.
Ted Kennedy tells the police. One story, he tells in

(30:17):
his famous speech to the national audience, a different story.
There are so many things left out of this, and
people could draw whatever conclusions that they want, But there
were a lot of holes and a lot of red
flags in his story.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
That case, to me was so interesting because of the
response from the medical examiner. So I guess there was
a medical examiner for the island of Martha's Vineyard and
chap Equittic and that person was unavailable. So then they
got the assistant who was not a forensic pathologist, not
even a pathologist at all. He was just a general doctor.

(30:51):
He was at a hospital taking care of patients and
delivering a baby when he got called to come over.
They pulled their body out of the water and they
he gave her an external exam, only didn't take off
her clothes, and was like, yeah, she drowned. It's it's
outrageous that that happened.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Well, there's there's other theories that go along with that too, right,
that she was already dead before they went into the water.
Oh yeah, I mean back at the at the apartment
or wherever you were, the cottage that they were at.
Mary Joe's pocketbook was there as long as her keys right.
So I always say, what woman do you know that
leaves the house or leaves somebody's apartment, or what have
you without their pocketbook and keys?

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:34):
How many? Zero? The answer is don't even bother looking
for an answer. So it would be like today what
a cell phone?

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
What woman leaves their cell phone behind? Or what personally
their cell phone behind? Zero? Many of us who have
forgotten our cell phones have driven like a half an
hour back home to go get so you know, there
are certain things that aren't left behind. Once again part
of the investigation. There are timeline problems. And then even
if when you look and exact in his speech that

(32:01):
he gave to the nation, listen, remember we were kids
and you had to write a story, and they always
tell you, you know, the beginning, the middle, and the end, right,
the introduction, body, and conclusion. When you get a statement
from somebody who might or may have been involved in
a criminal act, you always look at those stories. And
if you notice about one thing about his story is

(32:21):
that in the very beginning of a story, the introduction
is huge, the actual event is really small, and the
after fact is even longer than the introduction, So yeah,
because he was basically, remember in the last half of
it is about how much of a hero he was.
He was diving back to the bottom of the car.
Remember this was pitch black, but he was able to
see that the car had turned upside down, it was

(32:41):
laying on the rocks. He died down so many times
he was able to see all this in the pitch
black in the water, right, yeah, okay, And he also
said this happened around eleven ten or eleven fifty. There's
a sheriff's deputy has said that he saw a car
that matched a similar thing around twelve forty, right, So
there's another hour half missing there. And then when he
gets out of the water, apparently he decides to walk

(33:04):
back to the cottage. Now he tends that he goes
back and he gets two of the guys there to
go back and search, and they would dive into the
water to try to get to marry Jokapecney and that
didn't happen either. The old decided to go home, go
to sleep, get some rest, and then wake up in
the morning. Then he doesn't call the police yet, he
calls the police, not until he calls his lawyer first,

(33:25):
then he calls the police. So this is like a
ten hour delay in all this stuff. And oh my gosh. Right,
so there are all odds of issues. People say this
wouldn't happen today. I say never, say never, never, say always. No.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Seriously, we went to chap Equittic to just I was
just like, I gotta check this out, and think it
is so hard to get there in two thousands. I
went with twenty twenty or something like that. Right, you
have to take you have to drive to Massachusetts, which
just sucks having to do that drive. Then you have

(34:01):
to get on a ferry to go to Martha's vineyard.
Then you have to get on another ferry to go
to chap Equitic And I was just thinking, like, God,
I can't even imagine what this was in nineteen sixty nine.
I personally think that he. I mean, they were there
to mess around with these girls. Come on, they were
all in their twenties and they were all single. The
girls and the men were all over thirty five, and

(34:22):
five of the six of them were married. Like, it's
just that doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
In really incredibly inappropriate to be in that setting too.
And then he wasn't he saying he was dropping her
back off at the hotels she was staying, Well, how
is she supposed to get in without her person keys?
Exactly the point you're making.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, there's like I said, there's so many, there's a lot.
I was say. My line is this so many red flegs,
it looks like China. So you know, and that's just
not that's not all of the red flags in there.
I mean, he goes on to explain about he does
a lot of name dropping. He noticed he drops his
brother John and Kennedy Nath the end of his old statement.

(35:01):
He always he's frozen this Winston Churchill quote about John
Quincy Adams the state of it, and he's thought and
he's named all these people. I always say when people
start quoting Bible scriptures and they stop putting the lookout folks,
this just that you know, it's coven.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Got it, it's and so to wrap it up to
Joan Kennedy again, that's the thing, like, so he was married,
but not only that, his wife was pregnant and on
bed rest because she had had two miscarriages. So what
do they always tell you, like, don't put extra stress
on your wife. Yeah, so just go out and party
with a bunch of twenty year olds. And she had

(35:36):
to go to this funeral and put up face with
him to marry Joe Capeshi's funeral, and he's wearing that
obnoxious uh neck brace, remember that he was wearing that
like the doughnut one around his neck. And she's there,
and she ended up having another miscarriage after that, obviously,
because I can't imagine the stress that that put on her.

(35:59):
And and she had left him because he was an alcoholic.
Like obviously, It's just it just was interesting. I just
wanted to bring.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Up Yeah, I love the history.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Any chance I could bring up chap equittic is good.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the history stuff. You know.
When I when I could tie in the crime to
history or historic eventsive figures, I think it's always fascinating.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
All right, what about this this next case, Ray.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Joe. I don't know how familiar you are with our show,
but it wouldn't be a true episode without a rectal
foreign body.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
We like this.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, I saw your listen, I wis Oh.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
It just happens every week, so we just had to
bring it up with you this.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Well, there's another crappy story, but go ahead.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
So this one is very unusual in all aspects. So
police initially got a call about a naked man in
a park, but when they got there, they said he
was fully clothed. Let him go on his way. Then
later that day, same guy was trespassing on a railroad
was then arrested. So they bring up men shockingly as
meth on him and then when they scan his body,
they find a thermis that he shoved into his anus.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah wow, yeah, Actually I had heard about this because
just something like that that comes over the wire, you
just it's it's like it's a car. It's a car accident, right,
you just have to slow down and take a look.
You see that guy has a service stuck in his anus.
You better read the article. I mean it's a similar
I actually kind of when I when I read the
headline and then I saw a Florida man, I stopped

(37:29):
reading after that. But what the issue that comes down
to is that Sheriff uh Grady jud isn't or Judd Grady.
Oh my god, I love that guy.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
He oh his jokes, I know that was so funny.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
He has the oh my god, he has the best
press conferences ever, and he talked about that he has
this service stuck in an exit only area. I mean,
he was absolutely hysterical. But you know what, in policing,
and you've probably seen this yourself, people do this stuff,
you know. I I've never seen or heard of somebody

(38:02):
using a thermos. But I think the largest object that
I've encountered was a shampoo bottled And this story was
he fell on it while he was in the shower.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
The most classic. Every time we covered these types of stories,
it's always I fell on it. I fell on that hammer,
I fell on that screwdriver.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Okay, So is that if you arrest somebody, how you
wouldn't routinely do an X ray on someone, right like?

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Or do they Yeah? In New York City, we only
did that if they if they set off the metal detector,
and we don't know the reason why. Right. So if
you basically you took off the belt, you took off
any chains and you know fingers, of course you're always
now you have to ask Ardia hast hearcings anyway that
we can't see, because that's you know, another indication of

(38:50):
a reason why you'd have a hit on the magnetometer.
But you know, so they get to hit on the magnetometer,
and apparently in Florida, in this jurisdiction, they do it
to every perpetrator or every suspect. You know, we didn't
do it unless there was some unaccounted for hit on
the on the metal detective.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Well, I mean, in theory, you could fill a condom
up with drugs and put it up there and that
wouldn't set it off off the metal detector. So I
guess that's why they would check. So the thermist didn't
have anything in it, Like what what was the point?
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
I don't know. I don't know what his purpose was,
but he did. But did sheriff to say that they
saved his life because they when they took them to
the hospital, they had it call and he was trying
to do it with a straight face, but they had
actually called a specialist to come in and take this
thing out because even the emergency room factors were reluctant
to do so, because even the specialists said that if
they didn't come out in a certain amount of time, he

(39:46):
would surely have died from it. But I guess he
might have, you know, maybe the meth had something to
do with, uh, you know the fact that he didn't
feel this thing. But I had a note on this
when we do when we were talking about oh, they
said it was maybe in there for twenty four hours.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Oh my god, that's so painful.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Well, and I'm wondering if they actually had to go
and give him a laparotomy and open his belly and
take it out that way because it's really big. Sometimes
they can't get it out just through the venus, you know,
like he might have to have a major colon resection
or surgery to remove that, which is which is outrageous,
you know what I mean. This is not his first time, okay,

(40:25):
because you just cannot just be like, oh, I'm just
gonna stick something that's six inches in diameter up there
for the very first time.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Like, wait, tell Jim about the one we have on
the website with the World War two artillery the artillery shell.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, the bombs we have. Since we're on the subject
and you've never seen one of my lectures, let me
tell you about my most favorite one I've ever gotten
in surgical pathology. A half eaten pair out of a
man's ass. The wife put it in there started eating
it out. It got sucked up, so it was a

(41:01):
pair with teeth marks in it. It was awesome. It
was one of my fabs. I have a whole collection though,
you know, of course of stories that of that. Surprisingly,
you know.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
When you hear these stories. When you hear these stories,
you know what you say to yourself when you say, well,
this this person's odd. You say, you know, like you
have no idea what's odd that you know?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
You know what's funny. Before I ever started working in
surgical pathology, I was in my young twenties and I
got a travel tooth brusholder and it was from this
eighty year old guy's butt right, And I was like,
this is so weird and I just didn't understand it.
And I found the pathologist and I was like, isn't
this weird? And he was like, oh no, Nicole, I
have to teach just some things. And then and then

(41:43):
like every day, it's just like you just kept getting
these crazy foreign bodies all the time.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I'd have to bore often. Then you know, there's
a guy on I think he's on Instagram. He's a
he's an EMS worker. I forgot his name, but he
does a whole thing on this. He'll he'll like be
in a store and he'll see, you'll see this bottle
of water and he turns to the camera and he
goes like this shake to the head. No, or if
you'll see different objects. Just recently, I think he had it.

(42:11):
It was a Christmas tree. Feels like a twelve. Yeah,
And he picked up the tree and he looked at
the canny one like this, you know, looks like because.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
It's true, you get like like you get I've gotten obviously,
like silos and stuff. Well, because back in the day
you weren't able to discreetly get a white box from
Adam and Eve delivered to your house or whatever. Right,
you can get them on Amazon. Yeah, so today there's
no excuse, there's absolutely no excuse. But back in the day,

(42:41):
we got cucumbers and things, you know, just lots of
different things. And my dad always says, he's just like, listen,
if I ever got a pair of stock up my butt,
I would die with that pair up my butt. I
would never go to the hospital and get that. Well
we're Italian too, so you know, you know the story
when my dad telling that, it is hilarious, all right,

(43:01):
the next story. This another This is a very unusual thing.
I've never should have ended on.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
The last story since I was a little on the
funnier side, because the next two are not or not.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
But this is.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
This one's weird though.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
This one's weird. So this twenty nine year old woman
has been arrested after she even cooler containing a fetus
to her lover after he didn't believe that she was
actually pregnant. Yeah, I don't know what goes through people's mines.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Have you ever heard I mean, I'm sure you doubt
this is the first time I've seen this, right, this
is this is another level. But I'm sure you've seen
crazy domestic disputes. Have you ever had anything that's just
like above the normal people fighting thing?

Speaker 1 (43:43):
I guess you know. Nothing tops this one. I mean,
she has a miscarriage, she puts it in in a
cooler and then holds him up and basically says, I'm
dropping this off to you. Here's your's your kid?

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, oh my wow.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
I mean, talk about a whole other level of psycho yeah,
off the shots kind of thing. I mean, geez, yeah,
this is an awful case. So she gets charged with
first degree I gottagravated harassment. I guess they're not viewing
the fetus as as a person, or it could be
something even worse ready. I guess it depends on how

(44:17):
how old it is in Missouri, because this happens in Missouri.
Every state has a different rule on this. But I'm
sure the cops will like when they got there and
be like a come on right, I mean, because he
was afraid apparently to open it up because he didn't
know if this was gonna be you know what it was,
So he callsed the police and you know, lo and behore.
They opened it up and like, oh geez, it looks
like you know, it looks like a fetus whatever. So

(44:37):
then the medical examiner of the coroner comes and takes
it and says, yes it is. But yeah, I think
this woman needs some help.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, I mean even if she and we don't really
know how far along she was, because I guess the
guy said a month or two ago she had told
him that she was pregnant, but he didn't believe her
because she's a pathological liar.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Amongst other things. Apparently, Yeah, I think her identity problems.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
So it's scary, he said, she showed no remorse or anything,
just yeah, in trouble way.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
I said, yeah. She handed over the cooler and said, bye.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
This is really outrageous that. So, I mean, I think
if you can't really recognize a fetus, really, I would say,
I'm just thinking about things that we got in the lab.
Ten weeks, it could be anywhere from ten weeks to term,
I guess. I mean, she didn't have to tell him
as soon as she was pregnant. She could have already
been six months pregnant when she told them. So, yeah,

(45:35):
like you said, the rules in different states, because sometimes
there was a woman that had a miscarriage in one
state a couple of months ago that we were talking about, remember,
and she got in trouble for like abuse of a
corpse because she tried to flush it down the toilet
or something. It was like really crazy. So sometimes the rules,
depending on how far along she was, can be really

(45:58):
you know, it's either me waste or it's a human
you know.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Right, Well, here's the thing. I mean, So in Missouri,
I had looked it up. This charge is actually an
e felony and which is basically one step above an
a misdemeanor. I mean, it's the lowest level felony that
you can get, and you can get anywhere from one
to four years if convicted for it in New York State.
If this is what happened in New York State, it
is more than likely it would have been what we

(46:23):
referred to as the unloaful disposal of a body, which
is only a B misdemeanor, which is basically one step
above getting a traffic summits. W Yeah, it basically it's
just a tool to hold people if you have somebody
that is, you know, distarting a body, because this now
happens more often than you think, with all these fechtanol deaths, right,
somebody has a party and then doing these drugs, person

(46:44):
drops dead and they leave them on the sunk lawn
because they don't want the person in the house, so
you know, and they just distart them. But it has
to be something to hold them for an investigation until
they can find out. So basically that's that's what you're
dealing with. You is. It's an awful case. It really
is an awful case.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
It's it's really weird, you know. I was just thinking
that if that happens often with the feneryl desks. They
should do something like like they do with the babies
that are not wanted by mothers. At the firehouses, they
have these drop off boxes. They should do it. Don't ask,
don't tell, just drop the person in front of the
firehouse kind of thing. I don't know. That might a

(47:22):
bigger give a bigger box piles of Yeah. God, especially
in the town my husband works out there, they're all
the time. The drug desk. I mean, I guess it's
every city that's happening. All right, let's finish off with
this drunk driving drunk what is that called?

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Drunk boating? Is another awful taste.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
This is horrible.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
In North Carolina, this guy and his friends were heavily
drinking while driving on a boat on a lake when
they struck a ten year old girl, killing her and
a forty one year old woman whose leg had to
be amputated. And they're saying that they hit them so
hard that the propeller fell off of the boat.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Yeah. And according to what the stories say too, that
they had he had the driver of the boat wasn't
paying attention, he was watching, he was They were pulling
the towing two people like on a float and he
wasn't watching what's going on ahead of them. The people
that are in the boat. I think they said they
threw about eighty or one hundred white clothes into the water.
They recovered I think thirty nine empty cans and I

(48:23):
think fifty I guess full cans. So they tested him
five hours later and he still had I think were
one point seven. Yeah, So could you imagine if they
they did the test in the first hour or so,
that number would have been much higher, but it is
not as apparently it's not his first DWI either, So

(48:44):
and they kept his wife, which was unusual. His wife
apparently he wasn't drunk, but she's on the boat and
the defense had asked to get her bail reduced, and
they the prosecutor said no. She had the opportunity to,
you know, basically what his background, to step in and
she basically like handed them the keys to this thing.
And she's just as much to blame. So it's gonna

(49:06):
be interesting to see how that plays out. But you know,
something that could be avoided, let's put it that way.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
It is interesting because I guess he started once he
realized what he did, he started saying, get rid of
this alcohol, and it was they were helping him throw
it in the water, right, I mean, which to me
means you're trying to cover up a crime. And then

(49:32):
on top of just they were not drunk, some of
the people in the boat. So I understand from that
point of view that they say, well, she wasn't drunk,
why didn't she drive if she's aw But I mean
he probably They say that about drunk drivers all the time.
They do it all the time, and he probably has
done it all the time when she's sober, you know.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
And how aggressive the person could be too. But my
cool story on that too is then don't get on
the boat with somebody who's know is already intoxicated and
is going to be driving the boat. Then don't get
on it.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
It's like getting into a car from the bar knowing
that the person that is behind the wheel to get off,
get out of the car, take a camp home or
an uber or whatever you do these days. So it's
it's incumbent upon the people, your friends, your family. When
you have somebody that you know is intoxicated, to take
the keys from him, boy or you don't. You don't
get in because you become just as liable. And this

(50:25):
case is this case might prove that.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Do you think that the punishment for operating a vehicle
while intoxicated is too lenient because we talk about Okay,
I'm so interested from your perspective about it, because we
always are talking about these people that get in these
horrific accidents, and you know, there's all these studies saying
that by the time somebody gets caught, it's probably they've
probably done it dozens of times already.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yes, I think I think that a lot. And you
watch this kid apparently, like I said, he has a
DWI and he's got to hit and run. So we
and I don't know if it's the same case or not.
I don't recall of him, but that could be two
separate tases, right, or it could be the one. So
he has somebody who's already been charged with this and

(51:10):
is now doing it again, is now caused somebody that
is a young girl at least she's ten, causes her life, right.
But we've seen this time and time again, people who
get behind the wheel and the station is the boat,
do horrific things and then end up with a very
light sentence after the whole thing's over, you know. So
I am a firm believer in the terrets, both specific
and general. Right specific, is it happens to me, I'll

(51:33):
never do it again. Right Apparently that didn't work in
this case, you know, and the general, but the general
is even more important where somebody is made of an
example out of it and then somebody else who's getting
you know what, maybe I shouldn't get behind the whel
because I remember this case where this guy gets twenty
five to life and killing somebody. You know, this is
the only time where you can actually kill somebody with
a five thousand pound weapon and not get twenty five

(51:56):
years to lice if you know why, just because you drunk, well,
you know, the reckless nature over the criminally negligit homicide.
You know, they go for you know, manslaughter a lot
of times in some of these things. Or now we
have these, you know, statues about you know, vehicle vehiculum manslaughter,
which is still not a homicide. We have to start

(52:16):
looking at this in more of an intent kind of
culpable mental state. And I do think that if you
start doing that within the law, you'll see less of
these kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
These things just They really just make me so angry
when we hear about these cases every single day. It's
always seems like innocent people are getting hurt that the
person that's actually drunk driving. I never really, I rarely
think about the boat situation though, because do you do
you actually there are a lot of people on boats
that are I know they're drinking. Oh my gosh, are

(52:51):
there pops out in the water like that or checking?

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yes, but not there's nowhere near enough because you can't cover.
So I grow up on Long Island, I grew up
on the water. I grew up around boats. I even
owned my own boat. And let me tell you something
that some of the people who drive boats who are
sober are dangerous. You know, driving a boat is unlike
driving a car because boats can be very difficult to

(53:16):
control based on the tide, the wind, the waves, and
everything else that goes along with it. You don't have
that on the street. And there aren't any lines. There
aren't any ladies. I mean, yes, you have green buoys
and red bullies right green on your right going out,
red right return going in. But if you go out
either side of those booies you can run aground. But
that's generally where people swim and stuff like that. And

(53:36):
I've seen boats that have a very low what's the
word I'm looking for, you know, I forget, but they
have a very low they can's operating very low water.
And I've seen smaller boats who are worried about the
big wake from the bigger boats that are in the
middle of the shadow tank around those bullies. And unfortunately,
you run the risk of hitting people when you're doing that.

(53:57):
So it's a very dangerous game. Long Island, the South
Jowl of Long Island is extremely dangerous because of the
rocks and the and the real shallow areas all along
the place.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Man. It's just it's a really interesting thing to think
about because there is this whole other world that's going
on in the water. And I mean, I'm sure he's
been drunk driving the boat or boating drunk for however
long and now unfortunately this had to happen. Well, thanks
so much for being here with us today. What else
do you have going on in your life right now?

(54:30):
We did the introduction about some of your history, but
are you working on anything new?

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Well, I'm planning on hopefully writing the third edition of
Mike Coldpie's Handbook, getting that together, and of course I
got the True Crime with the Sage channel on YouTube
that I've been trying to, you know, get get guests
and do those kind of things. And I teach two
days a week and I have papers out in the
law zoom, not like the guy with the thermis. But

(54:57):
you know, I got a lot of stuff going on,
so it becomes difficult to try to, you know, keep
all these things, all these balls up in the air.
How I'm getting old too, so you know, people think, like,
you know, I'm like forty five years older and I'm like,
I'm almost sixty. Guys, leave me alone with this, you know,
and you don't seem.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
That you don't seem like you're a most sixty. Yeah,
you have like a youthful a way of appearance. But
just like your attitude too, is very youthful.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Well, if I had hair, I built a lot younger, right, So,
and if I let my bean grow out, it's all white.
You could see something that we are all white. But
uh yeah, no, I keep myself busy. Like in regardss TO,
I enjoyed doing it. I enjoyed take talking of people.
I enjoy being on all the people's shows like your
own and meet you guys in person was great too.
So you know this stuff with Cheryl, I mean if

(55:44):
if that that kind of stuff for me is really fun.
So I'm enjoying myself for now.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Students think of this that you have this YouTube and
stuff today because you have students that are are they
mostly younger, like in their twenties or you have all ages.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Yeah, most of them are probably nineteen twenty years old.
I don't push this with the students per se. Some
find it automatically, you know. I guess a lot of
time the students because they look for that rate my
professor thing, right. They want to make sure that they're
not getting a complete asshole before they take the class,
so they go and then of course when you do that,
my name pops up at other places, and you know,

(56:19):
then they fight it and be like, oh my god,
you know you have this. You know, they think like
it's Impressible'm like, guys, it's like, you.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Know it's you, Yeah exactly, that's but that's how you're career.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
You could do it yourself.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, it's the only my My younger kids besides Maria,
are eleven and twelve, and it's just like the only
way younger people gauge people anymore. It's really sad. Actually,
I'm just like, how.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Many followers you guy?

Speaker 3 (56:46):
Right?

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Basically yeah, And I'm just like, well, you know, I
was a single mom and I got a bachelor's and
a master's degree. Does that count for anything? Like? No,
no followers?

Speaker 1 (56:56):
You're cool? You know? Yeah, Well, when it's no longer
fun or just things, you know, lights gets in the way,
you know, which happens from time to time. You know,
I'll continue to do whatever I can do. One of
the things I do like doing, and I don't know
if you saw this, but on my channel, I have
on the post section, I do quiz a day, So

(57:17):
six days a week, I gives a multiple choice quiz
on death investigations, forensics, criminal investigations, and in some days
usually a pullbait. And I've found that the audience really
loves that kind of stuff, So I can do that.
I think there's a one hundred and fifty questions up
there right now, and I have features that reach out
to me and saying, hey, can I hear things from
my midterm? Yeah, knock your out? So why reinvent the wheel.

(57:39):
I tell people, yeah, you did.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
The lecture you did was unexpected to me at the
CSI training, and I thought it was awesome. It was
just trying to tell because everyone in your audience. I mean,
obviously you don't know who you're who's in your audience,
but there's a lot of people that just might be.
My mom was there with us, right, And my mom's
a perfect example of someone that, like she was kind

(58:02):
of a stay at home mom, and she didn't really
she probably would have done really well in this field
if it was a different time, you know, and she's
very interested in it, in true crime. So you were
trying to teach people how everyday citizens can help solve
cold cases, and I thought that was super cool, all
the stuff you were going through.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, and actually, to tell you a secret, I won't
tell Cheryl this unless you watched this. I had to
put that presentation together at the last minute because originally
I was just gonna go in there up there and
talk and then they then they said no, no, we
want a presentation, and I'm like, oh boy. So I
was up like trying to just throw this thing together.
But I told Cheryl too, I could hope to talk
for three hours without anything, but you know, whatever you want.

(58:45):
I could talk cases, I could talk whatever you want.
Cheryl's like, go up there. I know you do whatever
you want, you know. And I try to make a
difference for the two nights too. So were you there
the first fight? No, we just yeah, So I had
two different presentations basically, and I went through two different
things to try to keep it fresh to the people
that are forced to be there two days.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Is no, you're you're a really good lecturer.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Like.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
It was very entertaining and kept people engage. And we've
done events with Cheryl before, so we know that she's
just she's she has no anxiety in her body, so
she's just like, yeah, just do whatever. And I'm like, Cheryl,
I need to. Like when I was just presenting at
crime Con, I just said to her, I have to
be in my hotel room for the next twenty four

(59:29):
hours and prepare for this lecture. And She's looking at
me like I'm a crazy person, and I'm like, dude,
I'm not like you. I don't just wing it like
I need to. I need to have like be focused
and whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah, I've done four talks at crime Con. Now, I
haven't been there last couple of times, but I've done
four talks at crime Con and actually I was almost
out one by the slough, right, So try to do
a talk off the cuff and you got this thing
hanging dangling from your head looking at her trying to
reach out and grab you. So how many people can
say that, but they did it. They did with a
slow trying to attack you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
That that was a very unusual circumstance to be standing
there lecturing with a sloth, and you didn't know that
obviously before you got there, so you're just like, oh cool,
this is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, well the alligators and stuff like that, you know,
it was Actually it was. I really had a lot
of fun. I love animals too, so it's it was
good I stayed away from the snakes in the croabout,
but other than that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, it was really interesting. Actually during your lecture, like
I look over in the one crocodile looked like it
was hugging the other one, and I wanted to take
a picture, and I'm like, you know what, this is
gonna seem so rude because the giant flash is going
to go off, and I was just like, I'm gonna
sit here. He's had enough with with the getting the
low grade attacks during this so we loved that. That

(01:00:44):
was fun. Well, thanks again for being here. We hope
you could come back again soon anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
You guys a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Thank you, Thank you for listening to Mother Nos Death.
As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.
I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy
and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I
have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

(01:01:13):
the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,
and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform
people based on my experience working in pathology, so they
can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.
Always remember that science is changing every day and the

(01:01:34):
opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge
of those subjects at the time of publication. If you
are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or
having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit
an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,

(01:01:55):
and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or any where you get podcasts, thanks

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