December 18, 2025 • 35 mins
Kevin and Casey open Pandora’s glittery, face-tattooed box and unleash GOOBA by Tekashi 6ix9ine. Is it a song? A threat? A preschool fight set to a trap beat? Kevin wonders if rebellion peaked with yelling “Are you dumb, stupid, or dumb,” Casey gets hypnotized by a Dalmatian, and together they ask: is this punk, parody, or paint-splattered purgatory?
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Good morning, give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance,
good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Give it a chance, give it a chance. Just give
it a hie me Heiney.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You know my preschool teacher, I had to miss Dick
and miss Heiney stop. Impossible, I'm telling them possible. Yeah,
I'm not sure if it was miss or missus for both,
but I think it was like miss you know, missus Dick,
missus heiney Opper is what we what I used to
(00:42):
call her them.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Apparently you didn't even know that should be the title
of this app for sure, miss we have never titled
something different than the song. Yeah, miss heiny Opper. Hey,
mister mister whatever, I can't do the risk. I can't
do the risk.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
But I probably as a kid, probably didn't even like
pick up on that one of my teacher's names is
missus Dick, Like I didn't probably understand.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I was just gonna say, I get I guarantee that
at that age you didn't think that was notable. You
definitely thought miss Heinie was notable for sure, having just
literally minutes before this been in an educational environment with
pre kindergarteners and kindergarteners, I promise you that Heine would
(01:30):
be so much more. In fact, this is this is
a legit thing. One of the it connects to chance,
it connects a chancey. I do some early music education
stuff at my daughter's school which we will leave nameless
here in Brooklyn. And just now, in the class I
(01:52):
said I did. It was like the pre k today
and in the kindergarten, and I said in the kindergarten
something was awesome. And one of the students went, mister Kevin,
you said the A word. And I was like, what awesome?
And then he spelled out as N and I was like,
(02:12):
and I was like, I did not say that. I
would not say that in the classroom, and in fact,
I don't appreciate the accusation. And then I went off
on this little kid. I was like, in fact, yeah,
I put them I will not I will, I will,
just so they'll never be able to be found in
(02:33):
they place.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
This is actually really fitting that we are talking about this, okay,
because this is a very controversial artist that we're going today,
and I actually have a pit in my stomach about it,
because it's like I do believe that sometimes we shouldn't
give certain things a.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Platform and a stomach pit holy cow. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And it's not like it's not like Charles Manson, which
is actually maybe a good one too, you know what
I mean? But like as an interesting No.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Guns N' Roses definitely covered that on an album, So
that was that was a cool thing they gave a
chance to. You had platform four tens of millions of people.
But please contind I.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Didn't realize that. I didn't realize that. Oh wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It was on the spaghetti incident. No one really listened
to that, but wow, the Spaghettians.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So this is an artist that is very controversial, Okay,
blew up pretty fast. Was like kind of like hated
even within like the own his own community or his
own genre.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Would you say like he was hated and discriminated against?
Is that a I'm not even sure if that's a lyric.
Oh no, that I haven't been hated to discriminated against.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I have.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've been protested and demonstrated against. Okay, sorry, please go ahead,
I didn't miss is what you do in front of
those kids at the school all day. Yeah, I sit
back with this back is exact. Yeah, yeah, I just
rip it up all right? Please? Sorry? So, yeah, this
is in the rap category. If you haven't picked up
on that, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Is there anyone that you you could guess is like
incredibly infamous of recent.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Recently blown up last ten years controversial? You think it's
like the speed at which they got big. I think
this person is probably a b is a machine gun?
Is it machine gun? Kelly? No, it's not, it's not.
It's not. OK. I like that you took a stab
bona fide shithead is great?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The last ten years blew up in hip hop?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, it's really I'm excited to get your get your
opinion on this because I in my head, I'm like,
why would Kevin even put on this artist? Aside from
just like, let me see what this is all about?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And maybe you don't even know. I wonder if you
even don't even know? If I wonder if yeah, it's
possible you might say something I really expose my grandpais
I think though, once.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I say the name, you'll be like, yes, I do
have some sort of idea of who this who this fellow.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is is it x X ex tentation.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
No, it's not, but you're it's it's a similar era,
you know in terms of like names like that you
got one more guests.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Okay, is it like is it like is it like
you know, little little little Durbin or something little? Yeah,
howdy little. I don't know a little something. It's Takashi six', Nine.
Okay SO i know that person is like has lots
of like facial tattoos and. Stuff, right sort of looks
(05:36):
Aesthetically i'm really gonna come across as like a total
ignorant person. HERE i feel like aesthetically similar to MAYBE xxx,
temptation like like physical presentation, wise someone maybe like the
way it's dressed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Up definitely he's got he's got, faces, yeah not.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Fees not. Feces.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
UH i think LIKE xxx is like a polar rising.
Figure there's a lot OF i, mean he also died very,
young SO i think.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
That's WHERE i.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
THINK i think when people die that there's always like
a fondness brought, upon like like the or the good
stuff kind of comes out more than some of they.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Have become like. Anglicized, yeah it's like there's an angel
wings get painted on, them and it's like actually like,
like you, know we're not going to talk about anybody
in my wheelhouse in this rotten this, arena BUT i
could EVEN i could talk about you, KNOW i will
just say there's a club Called loopos In, Providence Rhode,
island and one of its features is they have a.
Mural and this is like by. NOW i don't know
(06:35):
if they updated every couple of years when new young
rock or rap martyrs, die but like on, it it's
like a wall of like all like you, know it's
like The, jam The Heaven's greatest jam. Band you, know
it's Like Jam's Chopltin Jimmy hendricks AND i Think Kirk
cobain literally has angel wings. On you, Know i'm a big.
Fan but, like let's also like these people do the
(06:58):
things they also? Do do do they? Do do they? Do?
Do Dave? Easy? NO i thought, That BUT i thought
WITH Xxx temptation and Maybe takisi six nine, also wasn't
there like accusations that one of those people like murdered
somebody or. Something AM i getting way out ahead of?
US i thought?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Somebody, Yeah, No takashi six nine has definitely allegations of
like you, know, uh sexual relationship with an underage.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Person oh, Gotcha, okay very.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Cool, yeah but you, KNOW i don't, know LIKE i
haven't gone too far into. It that's Why i'm, like
this is a controversial, thing but it's also it's such as,
zeitgeisty or maybe there was a time that it was
even more. Zeitgeisty AND i thought when sometimes LIKE i
have a running list of like artists that are divisive
like that people hate just BECAUSE i do think it
(07:46):
fits This and this is gonna be a really hard.
ONE i, THINK i think specifically for you not to judge,
you BUT i think this is a tough sell for
you to give a. Chance and SO i tried to
find a song THAT i heard this. Is so it's
hard to, find like what the number one six' nine
song is or snitch nine some people call him because
(08:06):
he ratted some.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
People out, oh see this is like division. Numerous levels,
oh yeah allegations then within like a, certain community like you,
a snitch, like damn he.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Snitched on members Of the bloods whoa claims he's a.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Blood and not.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A blood oh, my god he used blood affiliation even
though he didn't. Have it this is all things that
go into.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
His.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Bag baby AND so i found a Song. Called gooba
all the songs are like titled Things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Like gummo that's. Something, gummo, yeah, Yeah. Yeah gooba i'm
looking at it. Right, now yeah here.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
WE go i think that you should watch the music
VIDEO because i think it will give you because he's
Such a it's an artist that came out in an
era where your image is really tied to.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It. All, yeah, Sure sure and without further of, do
shadow we now Listen to Gooba by TAKASHI Six n
take your grandpa to? Work day, all right here. We,
go okay you've got, some money but you still FUCK OUT.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Stupi i have, One, question kevin are? You dumb stupid?
Or dumb it's kind.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
OF great i know that is sort of, my unfortunately
like my.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
My takeaway the REASON why i picked this Is because
i've heard it BEFORE and i was captivated by. That
chorus you don't stupid? Or dumb is is. The, takeaway yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
IT'S funny i sometimes struggle to separate my macro from
micro thoughts that stuff like this and in WAYS that
i think it can be like that's such an interesting
way to. Describe it there are certain relationships in my
LIFE where i think there are people who really like
that about. Our interactions and there's other relationships in my
LIFE where i know there are people who are like
(09:54):
instantly exhausted by that facet of. My PERSONALITY and i
totally understand it is what, it IS and i AM what,
I AM but i feel like the PRIMARY thing, i, was,
yeah yeah it's strown to the finish because are? You
dumb stupid? OR dumb i feel Like when i'm, Watching
(10:15):
this i'm like THE thing, i THOUGHT what i mostly
thought was like two THINGS before i even get into
anything about the music itself or the quality of to
Whatever degree I'M even, I first i personally feel even
equipped to be an assessor of. Such things it's like
(10:35):
every generation needs it's and. Micro Generations. Two caul there
is this is like five. Years ago now there's probably
five years, in fact, Not probably i'm certain there's stuff
that's five years more, like, saturated fragmented, you know sort of,
like assaulted no, potentially horrifying, pun intended knowing nothing about
(10:57):
this person's actual like whatever, they were allegations exist, against
him and whatever else this is meant to be like
a kind of like the, color schematic the like the
way it's playing back and forth between like literal cartoon
imagery and like, hyper saturated like, you know it's literally
like paint being thrown at like, you know naked women.
(11:19):
Or whatever like it's it's supposed to play at some
very fine razor's edge between like like really taboo kind
of like, HE'S like i, don't know if you see
him for five seconds in the video without his middle,
fingers up he's. Taunting you the whole thing is like.
Fucking taunting his existence is a taunt to the status.
(11:40):
Quo cook and then like but like the ha but.
You know and then also, it's like, you know there's aspects,
of IT like i could see my nine year old
seeing like twenty seconds of the right twenty or wrong
twenty seconds. Of that it's all. Bright colors everything's at
Such a so the TWO things i thought, were like
(12:00):
every generation of microgeneration needs its things that differentiate it
via scandalization from the generations that, Preceded It like i'm
not supposed to watch that and be, like like first,
of all instantly get it or instantly be able to
like think about it the way an eighteen year old
(12:22):
or someone twenty through two year old who watches that thinks.
About it and that's the nature of whatever has been
kind of like at the sort of like spears tip.
Of whatever the next thing, is forever whether it, was
punk whether it was, hip hop when it was rock,
and roll when it was like it's literally there to
define generational divides on some level like either get it or,
(12:44):
you don't you KNOW what. I MEAN and i think
it gets harder and harder to find ways to be scandalous,
or whatever like the rebellion gets harder and harder to
it sort of, like cultivate and that ends up where
you do just like mash all this shit together and
some kind of like post it's post a lot. Of
(13:05):
THINGS but i did also think like this is punk
rock to a whether they would call it that, Or
not like. It's aggression it's like unapologetic in, your faceness
even like the fact that it is kind OF like
i don't even know How, to well maybe That's where i'll,
leave that because then the rest would be getting into
like assessing his like skills as a rapper, Or WHATEVER
(13:25):
like i don't even Know IF i'm i don't even
know IF if i have anything salient to, Say there
but do you KNOW what i mean with, all that
it's just like, it's, YEAH.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah i agree with you with all the heightening of
this music and and these ideas from like punk rock
and EVEN like i remember grunge was like and the
slacker culture was, sort, of oh what are we going?
To do and then, you know obviously even, before that like,
metal culture with like the government wanting to step in
and put, you know parental advisory on like these like.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Literally stepping in, yeah yeah like actually. Doing it. Yeah
yeah and so this is so WILD.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Because i do think to, your point on one side
of me, is, like oh they are they are they
are making this look like it's, For children like this
is the same backgrounds that Like a Miss rachel or
Or like blippy would use like it is they use
a shark that is like exactly like the baby, shark
shark and it's, it's like so it's it's, for children but.
(14:25):
It's not that is not made. For children and he would,
just say and he reads the right, to say it's freedom.
OF speech i didn't say it's. For children it's your
job to not have your kids watch this if that if,
You're CONCERNED and i kind of agree with.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
That TOO so i agree with.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
ALL that i agree with the uh AND and i
think moving next into like his, technical prowess there's elements
here that IS just i actually don't think that this
era really cares about their lyrical prowess in the WAY
that i think our, generations rappers like like, You know
Biggie nas eminem, fifty cent like even going through the,
(15:02):
two thousands LIKE where i.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Like The ghost face. Or. Something, Yeah YEAH.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And i think that these that this this like this
era is really just about making, a splash getting some
attention quickly and, you know effectively and exactly what you
described of just like throwing everything, at you taunting you
is such a good way to. DESCRIBE it i really
(15:27):
you really Cooked and I'm eating i'm.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
DIGESTING still, i mean, YOU know i, feel, like uh
that that is a for better and for worse sometimes
SOMETIMES like i might, be cooking but WHAT am? I
cooking and who wants to? Eat it you KNOW what? I, Mean,
(15:53):
MONEY no i, feel, LIKE yeah i think that's a.
GOOD point i definitely get the sense of part. Of
it seems like an in what's, the word like, internice
scene interna scene whatever, that is like intramural debate in
hip hop is actually about like how hip, hop, artists,
(16:15):
writers whatever, the culture how it how it digests these
artists and how it, assesses them like because there is
a real shift from like someone like the ART like
i think about someone Like ghost FACERS or i guess
like now it's like considered like a generational like old
school like something like clips right or pusha te that
is so like like like Defined by it's like it's
(16:40):
like it they're like. Short stories it's. Narrative prowess it's
like you know these like The ghost face Stuff Like
supreme clientell that shit it's like five four and five
MINUTE like i Feel Like raymond carver stories, or something
but just told through a very specific voice. And lens
this shit is not, about that, you know and it's
not and and so like and then it's not about
(17:00):
like also like someone like nas or Certainly like eminem
And maybe kendrick is kind of like a like more
But even kendrick now is like an old head to.
These kids but like Somebody like kendrick was a torch
bearer for that that was about, like, construction syllabic, interior
rhyme schematics and like how do you Or like andre
three thousand or something, like that that's like ancient compared
(17:21):
to what this, shit Is like eminem or someone, like
that like really thinking about, like WELL if i land,
this here THEN if i land, this here and if
it's like, you know magnetic poetry, or something this is.
Not THAT and i DO think i think It's the you're,
right though, it is but really what it is is,
it's like is this such a funny reference to? Think
OF and i have no, idea why but it's what
popped in. My head BUT when i was, a kid
(17:43):
teenager maybe it was, Late, TEENS yeah I guess i
would have been. Like seventeen it WAS The Mtv music
awards the year, that, like uh what? Was it fucking THE,
big oa The bigger? Oasis record what's? The Story morning
glory was was out and like, you know, they were,
They were they played on it and They played Champagne
super nova and like a pre right Word Turn Fox
(18:06):
News Monday. Night Football dennis miller was the host OF
The Mtv Video music awards and you, know sardonic dripping,
with sarcasm, you know cultural very like uh, you know
high culture engine in that. Guy's Brain And, liam gallagher,
(18:27):
you know Acts Like liam gallagher the. Whole performance he's
kind of like insutionint and fucking and he like spills
his beer on the stage like on purpose while they're
playing she had Made, Super nova and when it goes
Back To, dennis miller, he, goes wow he spilled, his
beer like totally just like mocking the, like, like wow
(18:49):
you're fucking, so cool, You KNOW and i remember it
made like such an imprint on me because he this
guy just was like in, That Moment liam gallagher, Was
like i'm the coolest fucking person in. The world and
then this guy went right back to the guy that
was like you're, a, Loser dude like what the fuck?
Was That and i'm not calling six', nine a LOSER
but what i am saying is there's something about watching it,
where you're like you live enough cycles and you're instantly
(19:11):
able to sort, of be, like oh right like So
You're the marilyn manson figure or whatever that like people
are going to be like Should Or and marilyn manson
was twisted, sister Or whatever and twisted's, sister was Yeah
and gig allen's actually at least like actually. A fringe
character i'm thinking about these people that exist in the
mainstream because, WHATEVER six, nine i know the mainstream has
(19:34):
changed and how we even define that in like a.
Fragmented MEDIA culture but i know who. That person, IS
six now i knew. Who that was i'm a forty
five year old like dude who doesn't even listen to anything.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Like THIS active so I guess what i mean is
He's Closer to jake paul than he, is to, like
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Totally And Right and sid vicious is a great example,
provocateur Like, right but jake it's like there's all so
like a sort of like mollified. Version OF that and
i feel. Like this thing you watch it and you're
just sort of like within very, quickly, it's like oh that's. What,
this is now, it's an iterated evolved. Version of it
and it's four people who are not forty five year
(20:16):
old dudes who listen to. Pavement or whatever but you
can situate it, in a. Lineage YOU know and i
also think there's something, about, the like yeah there is
a moment too where you're, like, you're, like YEAH okay
like i wonder when. The next evolution but also maybe
this is like THIS is where i go TO global
and i need you can LIKE ring or i could,
(20:36):
drop it here drop it off at the. End of
this but it's like there is a thing that there's
like a quote we maybe you've talked about this on,
The show before like there's some social, theorist that says
like the greatest sort of like the greatest dreams or
aspirations of an oppressed class is to. Become the oppressor
like that's the that's the horizon point of your of
Your greatest DREAM and like i think of, Stuff like,
(20:59):
this i'm like what point are we going? To evolve
past like the most radical thing we can have is
like the, most materialistic representation plus like The most like
i've been able to line up twenty, five you know
hot hot women in fucking dental floss bikinis and throw
paint at them or like mock choke. Them OR whatever,
and i know then we get into a whole question
(21:20):
about agency and who chooses to beware And and so
i'm not that those, are treacherous waters but it just
does feel like a point, where it's like aren't, there
greater dreams more liberatory dreams to be represented at some
point than just LIKE the same i have a diamond
shark and look at. This hot. Girl i'm degrading but
maybe that's not for me to.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Say hoping we're going. To get there i'm hoping we're
going to get there with like in time and like
because of. Things like this despite these it's almost like
you sometimes you need a car crash in order to
like total realize you got to drive better or, something like,
That you KNOW and so i don't know that's, a
STRANGE metaphor but i want to switch gears a little
bit and talk about SOME.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Chanceship that i might have and.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
You might have because the reason THE reason why i
sort of Even listened to takashi six stander gave. Him
a chance and it's a very strange reason because it's not.
Really very me but somebody who's a friend of mine
was telling me that he doesn't like like this music
except if he's, in the gym he Will put on
(22:26):
takashi sixty nine or like like this kind, of you
know brutal maximalist hip hop and it's funny because to
even call it. Maximalist is weird very minimal. Actually really,
simple it's yeah but like the ideas that are being
thrown at you and like the, visuals and stuff that's,
where it's like that's why it's.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This, weird scent well that's the punk. Rock of it
it's fucking. Simple and straightforward but it's, also like that
like it's. Hardcore, or, something, yeah, yeah yeah yeah that's
such a good way.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
To describe IT and, so i think like in, terms
like that if there's a, PLACE for this i do
think that it works in a in a, situation like,
that YOU know like i think we've maybe this doesn't
going back to.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
An older episode maybe this doesn't Fit. At, at kerra well
it Depends on. The catholic wedding it depends on that
AND on actually i Would play a. Catholic wedding dog
actually this is there is a Lot of like spanish.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
INFLUENCE in THIS i think i think six,' nine is Uh,
it's definitely speaks spanish so maybe this is at some
continue it probably, DEFINITELY is ALL dude I.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Will i would i will cut off my left pinky
if it is somehow verifiable to me that this has
never been. Played at a kista i'm sure it's been
played at. A fucking bar mitzvah i'm sure it's been
played in some edited Version at like. A CATHOLIC school
dance like I guarantee you some dj, was like, no
(23:56):
doubt poopoo change no. Doubty on, that, One but anyway please.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And in the music video there's, a point, where there
you know there's all these colors and all, these like
you know his, hair is very colorful his face tattoos
are a mix of color, and black and white and
at one Point He holds a dalmatian and then this
is more of a give it a chance to the director,
for like doing that because it's. Such A great moment
the dalmatians a, puppy is so cute and also just
(24:24):
like the black and white with all this color Is,
SO smart that yeah i love that there's a part
where his hair gets. Caught, in, an umbrella yes yes
because all this. STUFF is getting thrown i like love.
That humanizing element, there, this is like really just give
it a. CHANCY for the director I mean it's also
i should, take, away some chances yeah because it's like
(24:44):
mostly just scantily clad women getting. Pain thrown at him
there's also a woman in There who has a takashi six',
nine TATTOO on her chest and i really like it
made me think about what the process, Was of hiring
this person like did did they do a cast and
call of like do? You have a tattoo you or
like did? They already know, this person they were like.
So let's put them on did you? Do it, FOR
(25:04):
the thing it's LIKE I have so many qui i need.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
TO talk to the producers i actually totally had the
exact same series of. THOUGHTS as that, Came, UP i
was like wow i wonder if Because anyone who exists
Like i'm saying this neither i'm saying this for no
other reason than because it, is a point of fact
and it's. TOTALLY batshit crazy to me i am probably.
(25:29):
ONE five hundred thousandth as, i Don't know the math
but i'm not in the same realm of visibility and
popularity and streaming success and all the rest of. It
as six' nine is and there are people that will
come up at shows that have shit tattooed on them,
from like my. BODY of work as a musician i
have no idea how to contend with, that, besides just,
(25:50):
to be. LIKE wow that's insane thank you i never
know what, to SAY to that besides that BUT i definitely,
know that if i have that then certainly people like.
THIS have like exponentially more so i wonder if it
is literally a person that was. Just like, it's all
of that i'm like did they ask that person to get,
that tattoo, and they were like oh right, you know
you only, live, once or, was it like yo our
(26:12):
friend remember she's got a tattoo of your, face on
her upper left breast like let's get her in the video?
Or what the. Story was there but definitely memorable it,
Definitely THE video, deserves a series like, i thought also
the choice again this punk rock juxtaposition of like approachability,
with like, the most it's like you know it's like
(26:33):
a candy store nihilism Or something like he's holding the
dalmatian WHILE he says something about like i. Think that's
one Of the lines it's about like i'm not going
to get the. Lyrics STARTS or won't even try but
i believe that's a moment where he talks about like
in the world created within the song, they're talking about
like shooting somebody like while He's. Like smiling and holding
the dalmatian she's very like that's. A total thing, in
(26:56):
that world i feel like especially in that sort, of
sub world of that world is like it's kind of
like he's, like smiling too the whole time but it's like.
There's like a menace to it but it's like it's
like he's like a menacing fucking teddy bear Or something
like he's holding a dalmatian and he's painting, and he's
(27:17):
giving you middle fingers and he's never kind of. Like
jovial and laughing and taunting but, it's Like the ship
being said if i'm glad, you SUGGESTED to WATCH the
video because i think i wouldn't have gotten half or
sixty percent of the intended. Impact just listening to that
song that. Shit, Almost exists TO be visual.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, that's WHY i tied it together because i do
think that there are people.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Who are in your world that now feel that they
need to put a visual.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Element to every song, they, make, LET alone this, world.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
NO dude i think well and. I think that opens,
up conversation it's not even necessarily or maybe this, is
an on ramp to it, or maybe it's for another
time maybe it's FOR a different format even but i
DO feel like that there are i think one of
the things that is a really fascinating series of internalizations
(28:26):
about anybody that would like to try to be a
musician in, any kind of public facing, way CERTAINLY in
twenty twenty five but i would say this has been increasing,
over the last like ten years. Is that you are
now you everyone is kind of, expected to be like
a multidisciplinary multidisciplinary artist who, is also like a you know,
(28:50):
fortune five hundred, level like, entrepreneurs small, business owner marketing
expert and yes everything has to be attached to some
kind of like easily, digestible thirty seconds at a time visual.
And if you aren't Those things the number of conversations i've, been, in,
where it's? Almost like well well what's. Wrong almost like,
(29:11):
not with ARTISTS by the way most artists i talk
to are like horrified that this, is the landscape they've
stumbled into, this, like apocalyptic wasteland of, like yeah it's
all on you, and if it's not. On you weren't good.
Enough it's, REALLY kind of fascinating but yeah i do
think there is a degree to which it's like you
are so expected to be like and have some like mega,
(29:34):
compelling like this is mega compelling and, it's like, not everybody's,
doing this, YOU know, BUT anyway.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
You know i know i know it is such A
strange World because it's Like i release, it's very seldom
i'll release MUSIC and it's really just because i am
always thinking about making music, and writing music and recording
Music and every couple of. Years i'll JUST put something
Out and now i mean like i'm not even like,
looking for, anything that's that crazy you know for it
to become aside from like some friends and people to
(30:04):
hear it and just you.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Feel like nice putting it out but.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It does because the landscape is so like it's so
much else that it's, become, So much else you're like
oh i'm just there's just a tree getting chopped down
in the. Forest and no one's around, anymore like that's
what my like my just putting out an album.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
FEELS like, without, any other COMPONENTS i mean dude it
increasingly i don't mean to be distant to, SAY something
that might seem disingenuous i think it increasingly feels like
that for people existing at like my rung of who
whatever For whatever series of accidents of fate and like
dogged persistence. Have like actually found some audience, Like and.
(30:42):
We have a buddy chris O'Brien He Has. A band
called the high chiefs. Made a Great Record, last year
it's called old bitch but it's like. There's a dog
on The cover it's like an Old they're Like a kind.
Of church of american Song band, it's like guys from
budo's band people from. That stuff playing as his band
chris is always like an irrepressible personality and in many
ways one of THE most. Interesting multi disciplinary artists i
(31:05):
know he's just not For. Whatever series again accidents of
fate he has not had like a public facing moment
of like consequence WITH any of the things. That i believe,
he does well, his comic mind, his writing mind his.
Musician mind is visual ARTIST mind and something he and
i talk ABOUT with SOME frequency is like i wish
i could just like snap my fingers and have it
be that Like fifty thousand, people KNEW who chris O'Brien
(31:27):
was because i think it would. Be FUCKING amazing for
those people but i, don't KNOW how to do that
and i think it gets harder and fucking harder every,
Year for what you're talking about, Like to Just like
be like i'm because i'm saying this to you TO your.
Face because it's what i, think it doesn't have to.
Be it is what it is you're very good at what,
You DO when you do music like i. Really enjoy
the music YOU make and it's also like i have
(31:49):
no fucking idea how to get people, to even hear
my music anymore Let alone, like, ELEVATE people who i'm
like Yo i Wish More people Heard casey or Brian
bonds or, chris, O'Brien or whoever's, Just LIKE dude i'm so.
SORRY like i don't know you. I don't know what
to say the other.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Side of IT is like It's not that, i dislike,
or i'm, afraid of You know making content because like
i've worked on a NUMBER of your music videos and
i love making them and conceptualizing them, and editing them and.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
You know like.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
All this stuff it's so fun but it feels like
when you do that and, you make a lot of
work it makes a small splash and then the stuff
that's just like, really quick and like you know throwing
paint at a woman.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Is always going to.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Do better so that's the funny that's, Like, the hard
THING is like kevi you and i NEED to get.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Some, Paint AND i, Tell me yeah and i mean
i'm not saying we can't, get, Some bad he's either case.
LIKE i'm not saying we can't i. Know you Already Named,
A few, we got brian bonds i. Mean, get him.
IN those, OUTFITS ah that's fantastic i mean i WILL
also just share one thing i did think Of that's
maybe a, little bit i'm the curtain chancy. But not
(33:02):
about us at all, my partner works, in his DIRECTOR,
works in film. Works in tv works in theater and
she was WORKING on a movie and the i think
one of the dp's that she was working with told
A story about WORKING on that kanye video with, i
DON'T remember the other person But i might. Have been
to kashi six Nine it's the video for that i'm
a sick fuck that likes a. Quick fuck whatever that, song,
is and in that video okay and in that video
(33:26):
they're like in these big boxy almost like like rock'm,
sock and robots costumes or something and they're just like
kind of like sexually accosting this. GIANT woman or whatever
it is i. Can't remember the deal, with That it's
something LIKE that and kanye turned because i feel like
a lot of this Stuff exists in, like a. Post
kanye place too like his you could feel like little traces.
(33:48):
Of his audacity in this STUFF there's he said to
the dp, in utter seriousness about the Song which is
his lyrics where i'm a sick, fuck who likes a
quick fuck and where there's like these two dudes who are,
like in rock', soccer robot costumes like you know sexually
assaulting a woman. Or whatever, the fuck, it was he
said you know This song's going, to fix THE chicago education,
(34:08):
system and the dp Was, like and you just with
kanye apparently you just, had, to always be like yeah
totally totally, because if you, Were like. What he'd, BE
like you're fired you know i. GET off the fucking
set anyway i don't know what that has, to Do
with any of this but i'm. Just giving, the the
the chances and yeah we, live in a very fascinating
(34:32):
landscape like like whatever, thought process went into that video
the fact that the, artist, at the helm was like
End it's going. To save, The chicago education system and
meanwhile i'm trying to figure out How to get. People to,
HEAR chris O'Brien's, record it's like i, don't know it's
all related somehow but we and maybe six.' nine is
the point.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Of, Correlation i think to land it ultimately I'M not
going to throw on unless i just really start like
lifting weights or.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
GOING to A boxing Gym or something i don't i.
GOT i'd LIKE for you to do i think, i would.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
BE that would BE fun be fun I wonder if
i could be like, i Want to learn how to box,
but i'll, Never Want to hit someone even.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Insparring, like, I'm like or be hit yeah. Yeah i'm
a conscientious objector for boxing that's a good skit. That,
there's a sketch of. There somewhere yeah THERE is the
chance also is like i do want. TO raise we
have twenty seven seconds i want TO just very quickly
say also like i do nothing about whatever this dude
like maybe this. Dude is like a legit horrible person
(35:31):
and then like there's kind of like, a legit anti,
Chance attached, for, me like right away i'm like oh
but aesthetically every generation needs this punk rock and that's
clearly what his dude Is for some group of. Kids
that i'm not supposed to get but. There are, some
pain on.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Me case i'm serious we're doing it
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Good morning, give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance,
good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Give it a chance, give it a chance. Just give
it a hie me Heiney.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You know my preschool teacher, I had to miss Dick
and miss Heiney stop. Impossible, I'm telling them possible. Yeah,
I'm not sure if it was miss or missus for both,
but I think it was like miss you know, missus Dick,
missus heiney Opper is what we what I used to
(00:42):
call her them.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Apparently you didn't even know that should be the title
of this app for sure, miss we have never titled
something different than the song. Yeah, miss heiny Opper. Hey,
mister mister whatever, I can't do the risk. I can't
do the risk.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
But I probably as a kid, probably didn't even like
pick up on that one of my teacher's names is
missus Dick, Like I didn't probably understand.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I was just gonna say, I get I guarantee that
at that age you didn't think that was notable. You
definitely thought miss Heinie was notable for sure, having just
literally minutes before this been in an educational environment with
pre kindergarteners and kindergarteners, I promise you that Heine would
(01:30):
be so much more. In fact, this is this is
a legit thing. One of the it connects to chance,
it connects a chancey. I do some early music education
stuff at my daughter's school which we will leave nameless
here in Brooklyn. And just now, in the class I
(01:52):
said I did. It was like the pre k today
and in the kindergarten, and I said in the kindergarten
something was awesome. And one of the students went, mister Kevin,
you said the A word. And I was like, what awesome?
And then he spelled out as N and I was like,
(02:12):
and I was like, I did not say that. I
would not say that in the classroom, and in fact,
I don't appreciate the accusation. And then I went off
on this little kid. I was like, in fact, yeah,
I put them I will not I will, I will,
just so they'll never be able to be found in
(02:33):
they place.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
This is actually really fitting that we are talking about this, okay,
because this is a very controversial artist that we're going today,
and I actually have a pit in my stomach about it,
because it's like I do believe that sometimes we shouldn't
give certain things a.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Platform and a stomach pit holy cow. Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And it's not like it's not like Charles Manson, which
is actually maybe a good one too, you know what
I mean? But like as an interesting No.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Guns N' Roses definitely covered that on an album, So
that was that was a cool thing they gave a
chance to. You had platform four tens of millions of people.
But please contind I.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Didn't realize that. I didn't realize that. Oh wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
It was on the spaghetti incident. No one really listened
to that, but wow, the Spaghettians.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So this is an artist that is very controversial, Okay,
blew up pretty fast. Was like kind of like hated
even within like the own his own community or his
own genre.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Would you say like he was hated and discriminated against?
Is that a I'm not even sure if that's a lyric.
Oh no, that I haven't been hated to discriminated against.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I have.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've been protested and demonstrated against. Okay, sorry, please go ahead,
I didn't miss is what you do in front of
those kids at the school all day. Yeah, I sit
back with this back is exact. Yeah, yeah, I just
rip it up all right? Please? Sorry? So, yeah, this
is in the rap category. If you haven't picked up
on that, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Is there anyone that you you could guess is like
incredibly infamous of recent.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Recently blown up last ten years controversial? You think it's
like the speed at which they got big. I think
this person is probably a b is a machine gun?
Is it machine gun? Kelly? No, it's not, it's not.
It's not. OK. I like that you took a stab
bona fide shithead is great?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The last ten years blew up in hip hop?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, it's really I'm excited to get your get your
opinion on this because I in my head, I'm like,
why would Kevin even put on this artist? Aside from
just like, let me see what this is all about?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And maybe you don't even know. I wonder if you
even don't even know? If I wonder if yeah, it's
possible you might say something I really expose my grandpais
I think though, once.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I say the name, you'll be like, yes, I do
have some sort of idea of who this who this fellow.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Is is it x X ex tentation.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
No, it's not, but you're it's it's a similar era,
you know in terms of like names like that you
got one more guests.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Okay, is it like is it like is it like
you know, little little little Durbin or something little? Yeah,
howdy little. I don't know a little something. It's Takashi six', Nine.
Okay SO i know that person is like has lots
of like facial tattoos and. Stuff, right sort of looks
(05:36):
Aesthetically i'm really gonna come across as like a total
ignorant person. HERE i feel like aesthetically similar to MAYBE xxx,
temptation like like physical presentation, wise someone maybe like the
way it's dressed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Up definitely he's got he's got, faces, yeah not.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Fees not. Feces.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
UH i think LIKE xxx is like a polar rising.
Figure there's a lot OF i, mean he also died very,
young SO i think.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
That's WHERE i.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
THINK i think when people die that there's always like
a fondness brought, upon like like the or the good
stuff kind of comes out more than some of they.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Have become like. Anglicized, yeah it's like there's an angel
wings get painted on, them and it's like actually like,
like you, know we're not going to talk about anybody
in my wheelhouse in this rotten this, arena BUT i
could EVEN i could talk about you, KNOW i will
just say there's a club Called loopos In, Providence Rhode,
island and one of its features is they have a.
Mural and this is like by. NOW i don't know
(06:35):
if they updated every couple of years when new young
rock or rap martyrs, die but like on, it it's
like a wall of like all like you, know it's
like The, jam The Heaven's greatest jam. Band you, know
it's Like Jam's Chopltin Jimmy hendricks AND i Think Kirk
cobain literally has angel wings. On you, Know i'm a big.
Fan but, like let's also like these people do the
(06:58):
things they also? Do do do they? Do do they? Do?
Do Dave? Easy? NO i thought, That BUT i thought
WITH Xxx temptation and Maybe takisi six nine, also wasn't
there like accusations that one of those people like murdered
somebody or. Something AM i getting way out ahead of?
US i thought?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Somebody, Yeah, No takashi six nine has definitely allegations of
like you, know, uh sexual relationship with an underage.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Person oh, Gotcha, okay very.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Cool, yeah but you, KNOW i don't, know LIKE i
haven't gone too far into. It that's Why i'm, like
this is a controversial, thing but it's also it's such as,
zeitgeisty or maybe there was a time that it was
even more. Zeitgeisty AND i thought when sometimes LIKE i
have a running list of like artists that are divisive
like that people hate just BECAUSE i do think it
(07:46):
fits This and this is gonna be a really hard.
ONE i, THINK i think specifically for you not to judge,
you BUT i think this is a tough sell for
you to give a. Chance and SO i tried to
find a song THAT i heard this. Is so it's
hard to, find like what the number one six' nine
song is or snitch nine some people call him because
(08:06):
he ratted some.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
People out, oh see this is like division. Numerous levels,
oh yeah allegations then within like a, certain community like you,
a snitch, like damn he.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Snitched on members Of the bloods whoa claims he's a.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Blood and not.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A blood oh, my god he used blood affiliation even
though he didn't. Have it this is all things that
go into.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
His.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Bag baby AND so i found a Song. Called gooba
all the songs are like titled Things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Like gummo that's. Something, gummo, yeah, Yeah. Yeah gooba i'm
looking at it. Right, now yeah here.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
WE go i think that you should watch the music
VIDEO because i think it will give you because he's
Such a it's an artist that came out in an
era where your image is really tied to.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It. All, yeah, Sure sure and without further of, do
shadow we now Listen to Gooba by TAKASHI Six n
take your grandpa to? Work day, all right here. We,
go okay you've got, some money but you still FUCK OUT.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Stupi i have, One, question kevin are? You dumb stupid?
Or dumb it's kind.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
OF great i know that is sort of, my unfortunately
like my.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
My takeaway the REASON why i picked this Is because
i've heard it BEFORE and i was captivated by. That
chorus you don't stupid? Or dumb is is. The, takeaway yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
IT'S funny i sometimes struggle to separate my macro from
micro thoughts that stuff like this and in WAYS that
i think it can be like that's such an interesting
way to. Describe it there are certain relationships in my
LIFE where i think there are people who really like
that about. Our interactions and there's other relationships in my
LIFE where i know there are people who are like
(09:54):
instantly exhausted by that facet of. My PERSONALITY and i
totally understand it is what, it IS and i AM what,
I AM but i feel like the PRIMARY thing, i, was,
yeah yeah it's strown to the finish because are? You
dumb stupid? OR dumb i feel Like when i'm, Watching
(10:15):
this i'm like THE thing, i THOUGHT what i mostly
thought was like two THINGS before i even get into
anything about the music itself or the quality of to
Whatever degree I'M even, I first i personally feel even
equipped to be an assessor of. Such things it's like
(10:35):
every generation needs it's and. Micro Generations. Two caul there
is this is like five. Years ago now there's probably
five years, in fact, Not probably i'm certain there's stuff
that's five years more, like, saturated fragmented, you know sort of,
like assaulted no, potentially horrifying, pun intended knowing nothing about
(10:57):
this person's actual like whatever, they were allegations exist, against
him and whatever else this is meant to be like
a kind of like the, color schematic the like the
way it's playing back and forth between like literal cartoon
imagery and like, hyper saturated like, you know it's literally
like paint being thrown at like, you know naked women.
(11:19):
Or whatever like it's it's supposed to play at some
very fine razor's edge between like like really taboo kind
of like, HE'S like i, don't know if you see
him for five seconds in the video without his middle,
fingers up he's. Taunting you the whole thing is like.
Fucking taunting his existence is a taunt to the status.
(11:40):
Quo cook and then like but like the ha but.
You know and then also, it's like, you know there's aspects,
of IT like i could see my nine year old
seeing like twenty seconds of the right twenty or wrong
twenty seconds. Of that it's all. Bright colors everything's at
Such a so the TWO things i thought, were like
(12:00):
every generation of microgeneration needs its things that differentiate it
via scandalization from the generations that, Preceded It like i'm
not supposed to watch that and be, like like first,
of all instantly get it or instantly be able to
like think about it the way an eighteen year old
(12:22):
or someone twenty through two year old who watches that thinks.
About it and that's the nature of whatever has been
kind of like at the sort of like spears tip.
Of whatever the next thing, is forever whether it, was
punk whether it was, hip hop when it was rock,
and roll when it was like it's literally there to
define generational divides on some level like either get it or,
(12:44):
you don't you KNOW what. I MEAN and i think
it gets harder and harder to find ways to be scandalous,
or whatever like the rebellion gets harder and harder to
it sort of, like cultivate and that ends up where
you do just like mash all this shit together and
some kind of like post it's post a lot. Of
(13:05):
THINGS but i did also think like this is punk
rock to a whether they would call it that, Or
not like. It's aggression it's like unapologetic in, your faceness
even like the fact that it is kind OF like
i don't even know How, to well maybe That's where i'll,
leave that because then the rest would be getting into
like assessing his like skills as a rapper, Or WHATEVER
(13:25):
like i don't even Know IF i'm i don't even
know IF if i have anything salient to, Say there
but do you KNOW what i mean with, all that
it's just like, it's, YEAH.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah i agree with you with all the heightening of
this music and and these ideas from like punk rock
and EVEN like i remember grunge was like and the
slacker culture was, sort, of oh what are we going?
To do and then, you know obviously even, before that like,
metal culture with like the government wanting to step in
and put, you know parental advisory on like these like.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Literally stepping in, yeah yeah like actually. Doing it. Yeah
yeah and so this is so WILD.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Because i do think to, your point on one side
of me, is, like oh they are they are they
are making this look like it's, For children like this
is the same backgrounds that Like a Miss rachel or
Or like blippy would use like it is they use
a shark that is like exactly like the baby, shark
shark and it's, it's like so it's it's, for children but.
(14:25):
It's not that is not made. For children and he would,
just say and he reads the right, to say it's freedom.
OF speech i didn't say it's. For children it's your
job to not have your kids watch this if that if,
You're CONCERNED and i kind of agree with.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
That TOO so i agree with.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
ALL that i agree with the uh AND and i
think moving next into like his, technical prowess there's elements
here that IS just i actually don't think that this
era really cares about their lyrical prowess in the WAY
that i think our, generations rappers like like, You know
Biggie nas eminem, fifty cent like even going through the,
(15:02):
two thousands LIKE where i.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Like The ghost face. Or. Something, Yeah YEAH.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
And i think that these that this this like this
era is really just about making, a splash getting some
attention quickly and, you know effectively and exactly what you
described of just like throwing everything, at you taunting you
is such a good way to. DESCRIBE it i really
(15:27):
you really Cooked and I'm eating i'm.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
DIGESTING still, i mean, YOU know i, feel, like uh
that that is a for better and for worse sometimes
SOMETIMES like i might, be cooking but WHAT am? I
cooking and who wants to? Eat it you KNOW what? I, Mean,
(15:53):
MONEY no i, feel, LIKE yeah i think that's a.
GOOD point i definitely get the sense of part. Of
it seems like an in what's, the word like, internice
scene interna scene whatever, that is like intramural debate in
hip hop is actually about like how hip, hop, artists,
(16:15):
writers whatever, the culture how it how it digests these
artists and how it, assesses them like because there is
a real shift from like someone like the ART like
i think about someone Like ghost FACERS or i guess
like now it's like considered like a generational like old
school like something like clips right or pusha te that
is so like like like Defined by it's like it's
(16:40):
like it they're like. Short stories it's. Narrative prowess it's
like you know these like The ghost face Stuff Like
supreme clientell that shit it's like five four and five
MINUTE like i Feel Like raymond carver stories, or something
but just told through a very specific voice. And lens
this shit is not, about that, you know and it's
not and and so like and then it's not about
(17:00):
like also like someone like nas or Certainly like eminem
And maybe kendrick is kind of like a like more
But even kendrick now is like an old head to.
These kids but like Somebody like kendrick was a torch
bearer for that that was about, like, construction syllabic, interior
rhyme schematics and like how do you Or like andre
three thousand or something, like that that's like ancient compared
(17:21):
to what this, shit Is like eminem or someone, like
that like really thinking about, like WELL if i land,
this here THEN if i land, this here and if
it's like, you know magnetic poetry, or something this is.
Not THAT and i DO think i think It's the you're,
right though, it is but really what it is is,
it's like is this such a funny reference to? Think
OF and i have no, idea why but it's what
popped in. My head BUT when i was, a kid
(17:43):
teenager maybe it was, Late, TEENS yeah I guess i
would have been. Like seventeen it WAS The Mtv music
awards the year, that, like uh what? Was it fucking THE,
big oa The bigger? Oasis record what's? The Story morning
glory was was out and like, you know, they were,
They were they played on it and They played Champagne
super nova and like a pre right Word Turn Fox
(18:06):
News Monday. Night Football dennis miller was the host OF
The Mtv Video music awards and you, know sardonic dripping,
with sarcasm, you know cultural very like uh, you know
high culture engine in that. Guy's Brain And, liam gallagher,
(18:27):
you know Acts Like liam gallagher the. Whole performance he's
kind of like insutionint and fucking and he like spills
his beer on the stage like on purpose while they're
playing she had Made, Super nova and when it goes
Back To, dennis miller, he, goes wow he spilled, his
beer like totally just like mocking the, like, like wow
(18:49):
you're fucking, so cool, You KNOW and i remember it
made like such an imprint on me because he this
guy just was like in, That Moment liam gallagher, Was
like i'm the coolest fucking person in. The world and
then this guy went right back to the guy that
was like you're, a, Loser dude like what the fuck?
Was That and i'm not calling six', nine a LOSER
but what i am saying is there's something about watching it,
where you're like you live enough cycles and you're instantly
(19:11):
able to sort, of be, like oh right like So
You're the marilyn manson figure or whatever that like people
are going to be like Should Or and marilyn manson
was twisted, sister Or whatever and twisted's, sister was Yeah
and gig allen's actually at least like actually. A fringe
character i'm thinking about these people that exist in the
mainstream because, WHATEVER six, nine i know the mainstream has
(19:34):
changed and how we even define that in like a.
Fragmented MEDIA culture but i know who. That person, IS
six now i knew. Who that was i'm a forty
five year old like dude who doesn't even listen to anything.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Like THIS active so I guess what i mean is
He's Closer to jake paul than he, is to, like
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Totally And Right and sid vicious is a great example,
provocateur Like, right but jake it's like there's all so
like a sort of like mollified. Version OF that and
i feel. Like this thing you watch it and you're
just sort of like within very, quickly, it's like oh that's. What,
this is now, it's an iterated evolved. Version of it
and it's four people who are not forty five year
(20:16):
old dudes who listen to. Pavement or whatever but you
can situate it, in a. Lineage YOU know and i
also think there's something, about, the like yeah there is
a moment too where you're, like, you're, like YEAH okay
like i wonder when. The next evolution but also maybe
this is like THIS is where i go TO global
and i need you can LIKE ring or i could,
(20:36):
drop it here drop it off at the. End of
this but it's like there is a thing that there's
like a quote we maybe you've talked about this on,
The show before like there's some social, theorist that says
like the greatest sort of like the greatest dreams or
aspirations of an oppressed class is to. Become the oppressor
like that's the that's the horizon point of your of
Your greatest DREAM and like i think of, Stuff like,
(20:59):
this i'm like what point are we going? To evolve
past like the most radical thing we can have is
like the, most materialistic representation plus like The most like
i've been able to line up twenty, five you know
hot hot women in fucking dental floss bikinis and throw
paint at them or like mock choke. Them OR whatever,
and i know then we get into a whole question
(21:20):
about agency and who chooses to beware And and so
i'm not that those, are treacherous waters but it just
does feel like a point, where it's like aren't, there
greater dreams more liberatory dreams to be represented at some
point than just LIKE the same i have a diamond
shark and look at. This hot. Girl i'm degrading but
maybe that's not for me to.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Say hoping we're going. To get there i'm hoping we're
going to get there with like in time and like
because of. Things like this despite these it's almost like
you sometimes you need a car crash in order to
like total realize you got to drive better or, something like,
That you KNOW and so i don't know that's, a
STRANGE metaphor but i want to switch gears a little
bit and talk about SOME.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Chanceship that i might have and.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
You might have because the reason THE reason why i
sort of Even listened to takashi six stander gave. Him
a chance and it's a very strange reason because it's not.
Really very me but somebody who's a friend of mine
was telling me that he doesn't like like this music
except if he's, in the gym he Will put on
(22:26):
takashi sixty nine or like like this kind, of you
know brutal maximalist hip hop and it's funny because to
even call it. Maximalist is weird very minimal. Actually really,
simple it's yeah but like the ideas that are being
thrown at you and like the, visuals and stuff that's,
where it's like that's why it's.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This, weird scent well that's the punk. Rock of it
it's fucking. Simple and straightforward but it's, also like that
like it's. Hardcore, or, something, yeah, yeah yeah yeah that's
such a good way.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
To describe IT and, so i think like in, terms
like that if there's a, PLACE for this i do
think that it works in a in a, situation like,
that YOU know like i think we've maybe this doesn't
going back to.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
An older episode maybe this doesn't Fit. At, at kerra well
it Depends on. The catholic wedding it depends on that
AND on actually i Would play a. Catholic wedding dog
actually this is there is a Lot of like spanish.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
INFLUENCE in THIS i think i think six,' nine is Uh,
it's definitely speaks spanish so maybe this is at some
continue it probably, DEFINITELY is ALL dude I.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Will i would i will cut off my left pinky
if it is somehow verifiable to me that this has
never been. Played at a kista i'm sure it's been
played at. A fucking bar mitzvah i'm sure it's been
played in some edited Version at like. A CATHOLIC school
dance like I guarantee you some dj, was like, no
(23:56):
doubt poopoo change no. Doubty on, that, One but anyway please.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And in the music video there's, a point, where there
you know there's all these colors and all, these like
you know his, hair is very colorful his face tattoos
are a mix of color, and black and white and
at one Point He holds a dalmatian and then this
is more of a give it a chance to the director,
for like doing that because it's. Such A great moment
the dalmatians a, puppy is so cute and also just
(24:24):
like the black and white with all this color Is,
SO smart that yeah i love that there's a part
where his hair gets. Caught, in, an umbrella yes yes
because all this. STUFF is getting thrown i like love.
That humanizing element, there, this is like really just give
it a. CHANCY for the director I mean it's also
i should, take, away some chances yeah because it's like
(24:44):
mostly just scantily clad women getting. Pain thrown at him
there's also a woman in There who has a takashi six',
nine TATTOO on her chest and i really like it
made me think about what the process, Was of hiring
this person like did did they do a cast and
call of like do? You have a tattoo you or
like did? They already know, this person they were like.
So let's put them on did you? Do it, FOR
(25:04):
the thing it's LIKE I have so many qui i need.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
TO talk to the producers i actually totally had the
exact same series of. THOUGHTS as that, Came, UP i
was like wow i wonder if Because anyone who exists
Like i'm saying this neither i'm saying this for no
other reason than because it, is a point of fact
and it's. TOTALLY batshit crazy to me i am probably.
(25:29):
ONE five hundred thousandth as, i Don't know the math
but i'm not in the same realm of visibility and
popularity and streaming success and all the rest of. It
as six' nine is and there are people that will
come up at shows that have shit tattooed on them,
from like my. BODY of work as a musician i
have no idea how to contend with, that, besides just,
(25:50):
to be. LIKE wow that's insane thank you i never
know what, to SAY to that besides that BUT i definitely,
know that if i have that then certainly people like.
THIS have like exponentially more so i wonder if it
is literally a person that was. Just like, it's all
of that i'm like did they ask that person to get,
that tattoo, and they were like oh right, you know
you only, live, once or, was it like yo our
(26:12):
friend remember she's got a tattoo of your, face on
her upper left breast like let's get her in the video?
Or what the. Story was there but definitely memorable it,
Definitely THE video, deserves a series like, i thought also
the choice again this punk rock juxtaposition of like approachability,
with like, the most it's like you know it's like
(26:33):
a candy store nihilism Or something like he's holding the
dalmatian WHILE he says something about like i. Think that's
one Of the lines it's about like i'm not going
to get the. Lyrics STARTS or won't even try but
i believe that's a moment where he talks about like
in the world created within the song, they're talking about
like shooting somebody like while He's. Like smiling and holding
the dalmatian she's very like that's. A total thing, in
(26:56):
that world i feel like especially in that sort, of
sub world of that world is like it's kind of
like he's, like smiling too the whole time but it's like.
There's like a menace to it but it's like it's
like he's like a menacing fucking teddy bear Or something
like he's holding a dalmatian and he's painting, and he's
(27:17):
giving you middle fingers and he's never kind of. Like
jovial and laughing and taunting but, it's Like the ship
being said if i'm glad, you SUGGESTED to WATCH the
video because i think i wouldn't have gotten half or
sixty percent of the intended. Impact just listening to that
song that. Shit, Almost exists TO be visual.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, that's WHY i tied it together because i do
think that there are people.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Who are in your world that now feel that they
need to put a visual.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Element to every song, they, make, LET alone this, world.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
NO dude i think well and. I think that opens,
up conversation it's not even necessarily or maybe this, is
an on ramp to it, or maybe it's for another
time maybe it's FOR a different format even but i
DO feel like that there are i think one of
the things that is a really fascinating series of internalizations
(28:26):
about anybody that would like to try to be a
musician in, any kind of public facing, way CERTAINLY in
twenty twenty five but i would say this has been increasing,
over the last like ten years. Is that you are
now you everyone is kind of, expected to be like
a multidisciplinary multidisciplinary artist who, is also like a you know,
(28:50):
fortune five hundred, level like, entrepreneurs small, business owner marketing
expert and yes everything has to be attached to some
kind of like easily, digestible thirty seconds at a time visual.
And if you aren't Those things the number of conversations i've, been, in,
where it's? Almost like well well what's. Wrong almost like,
(29:11):
not with ARTISTS by the way most artists i talk
to are like horrified that this, is the landscape they've
stumbled into, this, like apocalyptic wasteland of, like yeah it's
all on you, and if it's not. On you weren't good.
Enough it's, REALLY kind of fascinating but yeah i do
think there is a degree to which it's like you
are so expected to be like and have some like mega,
(29:34):
compelling like this is mega compelling and, it's like, not everybody's,
doing this, YOU know, BUT anyway.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
You know i know i know it is such A
strange World because it's Like i release, it's very seldom
i'll release MUSIC and it's really just because i am
always thinking about making music, and writing music and recording
Music and every couple of. Years i'll JUST put something
Out and now i mean like i'm not even like,
looking for, anything that's that crazy you know for it
to become aside from like some friends and people to
(30:04):
hear it and just you.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Feel like nice putting it out but.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It does because the landscape is so like it's so
much else that it's, become, So much else you're like
oh i'm just there's just a tree getting chopped down
in the. Forest and no one's around, anymore like that's
what my like my just putting out an album.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
FEELS like, without, any other COMPONENTS i mean dude it
increasingly i don't mean to be distant to, SAY something
that might seem disingenuous i think it increasingly feels like
that for people existing at like my rung of who
whatever For whatever series of accidents of fate and like
dogged persistence. Have like actually found some audience, Like and.
(30:42):
We have a buddy chris O'Brien He Has. A band
called the high chiefs. Made a Great Record, last year
it's called old bitch but it's like. There's a dog
on The cover it's like an Old they're Like a kind.
Of church of american Song band, it's like guys from
budo's band people from. That stuff playing as his band
chris is always like an irrepressible personality and in many
ways one of THE most. Interesting multi disciplinary artists i
(31:05):
know he's just not For. Whatever series again accidents of
fate he has not had like a public facing moment
of like consequence WITH any of the things. That i believe,
he does well, his comic mind, his writing mind his.
Musician mind is visual ARTIST mind and something he and
i talk ABOUT with SOME frequency is like i wish
i could just like snap my fingers and have it
be that Like fifty thousand, people KNEW who chris O'Brien
(31:27):
was because i think it would. Be FUCKING amazing for
those people but i, don't KNOW how to do that
and i think it gets harder and fucking harder every,
Year for what you're talking about, Like to Just like
be like i'm because i'm saying this to you TO your.
Face because it's what i, think it doesn't have to.
Be it is what it is you're very good at what,
You DO when you do music like i. Really enjoy
the music YOU make and it's also like i have
(31:49):
no fucking idea how to get people, to even hear
my music anymore Let alone, like, ELEVATE people who i'm
like Yo i Wish More people Heard casey or Brian
bonds or, chris, O'Brien or whoever's, Just LIKE dude i'm so.
SORRY like i don't know you. I don't know what
to say the other.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Side of IT is like It's not that, i dislike,
or i'm, afraid of You know making content because like
i've worked on a NUMBER of your music videos and
i love making them and conceptualizing them, and editing them and.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
You know like.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
All this stuff it's so fun but it feels like
when you do that and, you make a lot of
work it makes a small splash and then the stuff
that's just like, really quick and like you know throwing
paint at a woman.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Is always going to.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Do better so that's the funny that's, Like, the hard
THING is like kevi you and i NEED to get.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Some, Paint AND i, Tell me yeah and i mean
i'm not saying we can't, get, Some bad he's either case.
LIKE i'm not saying we can't i. Know you Already Named,
A few, we got brian bonds i. Mean, get him.
IN those, OUTFITS ah that's fantastic i mean i WILL
also just share one thing i did think Of that's
maybe a, little bit i'm the curtain chancy. But not
(33:02):
about us at all, my partner works, in his DIRECTOR,
works in film. Works in tv works in theater and
she was WORKING on a movie and the i think
one of the dp's that she was working with told
A story about WORKING on that kanye video with, i
DON'T remember the other person But i might. Have been
to kashi six Nine it's the video for that i'm
a sick fuck that likes a. Quick fuck whatever that, song,
is and in that video okay and in that video
(33:26):
they're like in these big boxy almost like like rock'm,
sock and robots costumes or something and they're just like
kind of like sexually accosting this. GIANT woman or whatever
it is i. Can't remember the deal, with That it's
something LIKE that and kanye turned because i feel like
a lot of this Stuff exists in, like a. Post
kanye place too like his you could feel like little traces.
(33:48):
Of his audacity in this STUFF there's he said to
the dp, in utter seriousness about the Song which is
his lyrics where i'm a sick, fuck who likes a
quick fuck and where there's like these two dudes who are,
like in rock', soccer robot costumes like you know sexually
assaulting a woman. Or whatever, the fuck, it was he
said you know This song's going, to fix THE chicago education,
(34:08):
system and the dp Was, like and you just with
kanye apparently you just, had, to always be like yeah
totally totally, because if you, Were like. What he'd, BE
like you're fired you know i. GET off the fucking
set anyway i don't know what that has, to Do
with any of this but i'm. Just giving, the the
the chances and yeah we, live in a very fascinating
(34:32):
landscape like like whatever, thought process went into that video
the fact that the, artist, at the helm was like
End it's going. To save, The chicago education system and
meanwhile i'm trying to figure out How to get. People to,
HEAR chris O'Brien's, record it's like i, don't know it's
all related somehow but we and maybe six.' nine is
the point.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Of, Correlation i think to land it ultimately I'M not
going to throw on unless i just really start like
lifting weights or.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
GOING to A boxing Gym or something i don't i.
GOT i'd LIKE for you to do i think, i would.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
BE that would BE fun be fun I wonder if
i could be like, i Want to learn how to box,
but i'll, Never Want to hit someone even.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Insparring, like, I'm like or be hit yeah. Yeah i'm
a conscientious objector for boxing that's a good skit. That,
there's a sketch of. There somewhere yeah THERE is the
chance also is like i do want. TO raise we
have twenty seven seconds i want TO just very quickly
say also like i do nothing about whatever this dude
like maybe this. Dude is like a legit horrible person
(35:31):
and then like there's kind of like, a legit anti,
Chance attached, for, me like right away i'm like oh
but aesthetically every generation needs this punk rock and that's
clearly what his dude Is for some group of. Kids
that i'm not supposed to get but. There are, some
pain on.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Me case i'm serious we're doing it
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