May 15, 2025 • 33 mins
Kevin and Casey take on Hanson’s MMMBop to answer life’s big questions: Is it a vibe? A warning about mortality? A flower metaphor gone rogue? Kevin considers joining the band, Casey challenges the lyrics, and together they decide — bop it or drop it?
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, give it a chance, give it
a chick. Good morning, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance? Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Just give what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know me? Is that y'all know me to the
same LOGI but I've been low key until I've been
low key. Well you got a little basketball hoop going
on right there.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah. So I'm in somebody else's office because I needed
some peace and quiet for my podcast and my listeners
who I love and I'm obsessed with.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Send me money. Oh are you in mister Belding's office?
Are you in by the bell?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm in so much I'm gonna get expelled.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dude, you are you about to get expelled? Like today?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm about to get expelled right now because I want
to focus on my music career with my two brothers.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Wait, I think answers. I think that's a clue. It's
like Blues Clues or not Blues Clues, Door the Explorer,
so chancers, Yeah, I know it, you do, Hanson?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh my god, yo, our minds are intertwined.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I know. It's like it's like it's like a new
episode of Severance. I mean, I'm out of your any
you'r any. I'm Audi. I'm out of your any you'r
any I'm Audi.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's a big spoiler. Guys, very excited for this one
because this is on a lot of like people's lists
of like songs they like can't listen to, and I've
kind of always thought it was a bop.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
They're they well done, You're welcome, well done, Beef Wellington.
I feel like, uh yeah, look, I mean we'll get
into it. We'll get into it obviously before we go
any further. Must it's it's mandatory for me to point
out these three little boys at this point, especially a
lot of like just esthetically teeny bopper Cobanian vibe. So
(02:01):
gotta point out Nirvana within five men, just to point
out that, you know, I do think I used to
see there was a T shirt, like a bootleg T
shirt or some probably some kind of like niche like
skater brand or something that had them on it, and
said Nirvana.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, that's really fun, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, So without bring this is of course system of it, dount, No,
this is this is bop by Hanson. I mean, listen, yeah,
(02:44):
before we get into anything. Holy cow, I just kept
scrolling and scrolling so many lyrics, and the lyrics were
all the same lyrics. I'm not don't we'll get into
the lyrics. These people were eight years old and they
wrote it. You can't really judge it too harshly, but
my goodness, there's two parts of the song. How much
(03:04):
can be said? How many times you gotta say it?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I will say though, that we talk about bridges a lot.
I thought this bridge was very successful. I liked it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I want you to tell me what the bridge is?
What is the bridge in this song? Which part do
you identify as the bridge?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, it kind of becomes several different things in one,
but I think it begins with can you tell me? No,
you can't because you don't know. Can you tell me?
You say you can, but you don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So there's some things I want to talk about about that.
But I feel like it's like really coming at this
the wrong way. If I start with my anti chancy
being the lyrics of a fourth grader.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well here my other thought is, I don't think that
this was written by them. I mean, I think elements
of it what were But if you listen to this recording,
that kid's not playing drums, and then there's a whole
pretty good bass on it that no one seems to.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Do you think it's not them performing.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh no, I mean there's a huge bassline there that
so it's a guitar player, a keyboard player in that
childhood plays drums.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, And then now I was probably thirty one years old,
thirty four years old, it's forty years old. I don't
know how old he is something.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Like that, but I think that that's definitely like studio
musicians playing maybe everything. I even don't know if they
wrote it, because maybe they did. Look, maybe they did.
I give benefit. I want to give them the band.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I mean, yo, look, I'm telling you. It says right
here on my streaming platform of choice. It says Isaac
Hanson vocals, guitar, it says ih Isaac Hanson, Okay. Then
it says thh Taylor Hanson vocals, piano, guitar, keyboards, lead, vocals, drums, guitar,
and then it says z Hanson drums, vocals. The Dust
(04:50):
Brothers produced this, which is.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So crazy because because because the drums make me think
of that I was thinking of Beck. I was thinking
of Beac Boys in the drums. Like the way it started,
I was like, oh, this is a sample. It felt
like a sample. I think he's but he's playing that
and yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Says it's a combo of Taylor and z Now on
my streaming platform of choice, doesn't even tell tells me,
tells me. It doesn't even tells me Z's name, just
as z dot Hanson, what is his name? Their name
is Zach Zach Okay, Zach Hanson, Zachary Hanson, and it says, Look,
it doesn't say like, I'll tell you this. There's a guy,
(05:29):
the mixing engineer who I think was a very famous
and successful mixing engineer. The name always this name always
kills me. Tom Lord Algae.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh great name, great name.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I think he worked. I think I met this person.
I think he worked on this, this songwriter, Rachel Yamagata's
music that I did some touring with. I think, like,
I'm I feel like I met this person. I remember
like being incapable of maintaining an inner seriousness about meeting
a person whose name was Tom Lord Algae. I was
just like that, come on, dude.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
This is impossible for me.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
A name you would make up like in a song
and exactly improvised.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And then there he was, all six two of them.
Don't drink a wabble if my mind remembers correctly. Sorry,
back to the chancy. We don't need to give a
chancey to Tla Tom Lord Alge. We all know he's
got the chancy at the wazoo. Okay, so yours your
contention is because we can get come back to the lyrics.
I love this is already in a beautiful way chaotic.
(06:34):
Are we chancing? Are we anti chancing? It's hard to
tell right away.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
My question is your contention is that you don't think
they're performing this on the track.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I mean, there's definitely I think it's sweetened. I think
it's sweetened with other studio musicians. I don't doubt that
they probably all played something on it. And I don't
even doubt that they're not good at playing their instruments.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
They're very good apparently at by all accounts, at all
of those things they've aged into. It continued. I have
like there are grown ass people. I know there are
still like active Hansen fans. They like go see them
live and.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Stuff No I and I bet you that they've created
like a whole you know, discography of of stuff that
has been good and in fact, like the chancey I
give this song is that I like it. I even
think that the chorus, which which in a a in
a good in a bad and good way, feels like
when you know, when like dummy lyrics, like when you're like, oh,
(07:24):
I know what the song's gonna be. And I think
if you forced lyrics onto it, which you could have,
I think it like kind of pulls back the curtain
and shows like the process of a songwriter. And I
think it's really fun that they like they whoever decided
this took the risk to be like, let's not just
fill it in. It's so infectious and I give I
(07:44):
give them flowers for it does kind of taste it
like Ellen Apple released as a phone and they're like,
it takes a brave choice to remove the headphone jack
it's brave to put in the thing that's like not
finished totally. And I can't help but get Jackson five
vibes and that's like my favorite era of you know,
Michael Jackson and his his singing is like it's it's
(08:05):
the you know, it's pop music is is always kind
of best when it's like four children by children. It's
the fubu of music for kids.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
This is I want that shit to get aggregated. That
is so good. Pop music's always at its best when
it's four children by children.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I know what You're right.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Though, because it ultimately is a confection, like pop music is. Look,
I don't know what. I don't know enough sort of
like musicology historically or whatever to know about Like, I
don't know, I even I'm not super well versed in this,
like like other people who've made like careers out of it,
even from like the fifties forward, but I do know, like,
(08:49):
let's start with things like Elvis and stuff like that,
you know, like the Big Bopper and Chubby Check or
all that kind of shit, and then obviously through the
Beatles and forward. Pop music is kind of I mean,
these kid kids are even kind of younger than the
demo in some ways. But pop music is a like
it's a confection. It's supposed to be something sweet and
(09:11):
kind of like sugary and kind of like best served
to and digested by you know, young, excitable people. That
doesn't mean that there's not sometimes things that become that
move around in that space that are like a higher
concept or higher quality, or that there's not like relative
you know, better and worse versions of it. But I
(09:32):
do think even for adults, like I think part of
what like the whole like poptimism movement in like music criticism,
with trying to like rest back the kind of like
the way people write about, like writing about Sabrina Carpenter,
the way one might write about like Bob Dylan and
Neil Young or something. I think that was a corrective
to be like, we can actually also engage with texts
(09:55):
like this that aren't just like by like you know,
canonical old white guys or whatever. I think sometimes there's
an over correction with that, where we're now supposed to
talk about Taylor Swift the way we talk about like
Mount Eerie or something like that. I think those are
like really different things. But I digress with this. What
I think the point of this music is is almost
(10:17):
for adults, it's actually to reconnect to that inner child
part in you that like sweetness, that like and so
I think part of why this appealed because this didn't
just appeal to like twelve year olds. There were like
grown ups that like this, and it's because of what
you're saying. It's obviously a Jackson five homage that like
open faced major chord kind of like joyful and yearning.
(10:40):
The quality of the vocal performance, it's totally going for
that kind of like it's a kid pantomiming R and B.
But kids who can like sing and play and they
know the source material. And I think that that's really
You're right, You're right to point out that's its like
strongest suit. This is like infectious inarguable pop music for
(11:06):
kids by kids.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I love the vocal quality of the lead singer Tailor.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
He's singing his ass off, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, And it's like there's like a squeakiness that like
that Michael Jackson had when he was like a kid,
where it's like, really what he sounds like is what
like a woman in their twenties, like like a what's
what's uh?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Who?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Who was Gladys Knight? Like you know what? It's like
these like these like high vocal like it's John Lennon
also wanted like to sound like the.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
The the Cherrell's.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Because like if you look at songs like Happiness is
a warm gun where a bang bang shoo sho. Totally
like that stuff is like all do wop inspired, and
obviously Michael Jackson was and this is you know, it's
it's definitely the next iteration of that. But I just was,
can I read something?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You can? Just I don't know if you can. You
might be under arrest.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, okay, well guess what I'm risking it? So all right,
So this is what the Hansen Bros.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Said.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
What the song talks about is you've got to hold
on to the things that really matter. Umbop represents a
frame of time or the futility of life. Things are
going to be gone, whether it's your age or your youth,
or maybe the money you have or whatever it is,
and all that's going to be left are the people
you've nurtured and have really built to be your backbone
and your support system. I'm laughing because that's so funny,
(12:45):
because like, as much as that is really beautiful, that
you're like, you remember when.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I said boo boop, Yeah, I was gonna say the.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Futility of life is you know, it's so funny, But also.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I need to have a critical question about that quote.
When is the attribution of that quote? Is that quote
that cannot be like nineteen ninety six or whatever this
song gotten before, Okay, because I was gonna say that
must have been for like any a VH one thing
or something.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Like for the interview by song facts like to like
and I.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
What I was gonna say, it's funny. I'm glad it
was affirmed by the writer. I never knew until I
was reading the lyrics along with listening to the song
that umbop was used at one point in this song
as a stand in for the passage of time, like
as a measurement of time. There's a part where he
says he says something done, yeah, and he says something
(13:36):
yeah exactly mbop it's done. Uh umbop they're in an
umbop they're gone, and an umbop they're not there, and
an umbop they're gone, and an umbop they're not there
until you lose your hair ooh, which you don't care. Look,
there's some stuff I want to talk about a lot
of the lyrics, but that being said, yeah, it does seem
they are like there is this thing moving through the song.
(13:58):
I think that's correctly identify by the writer, which might
sound like a funy thing to say because you're like,
of course it is, they wrote it. I think there's
sometimes they hear songwriters talk about their songs and I'm like,
I don't care if you think that's what it's about.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah totally, or like that might
be what it's about, but you did not execute at
the level of writing with like metaphor or whatever that
You're like, there's things someone might be like.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yo, that's supposed to stand in for, like the passage
of time, and you're like, no, it's not what How
explain break it down for me? How this one? I
can see it? I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Sure. The other side of the coin of that is
like chocolate rain, which we discussed, which was like it's
I didn't even realize it was about that, and it's
so to the point it's clearly this is what it
is about, and you're like, oh wow, like they beat
it overhead and I still didn't. Well, the truth is
I never really listened to it, but from like the
memes you see it around, like I didn't put it together,
(14:50):
and it's like got such meaning behind it and it's
very obvious.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But that was almost too, like that was also like
a dare in some way. I wonder about his intentionality
with that too, because it's like that's he effectively wrote
like a hard rain's gonna fall, yeah yeah or something,
or like uh, it's all right, mom, only bleeding. But
then he made it into like a cartoon mimified, like
(15:15):
no one was gonna find the meaning in that, because
it was like completely presented as a I mean, that's
like such an effective trojan horse that like you forget
to push the horse through the gate or something like
you just leave it outside. It was like too good
for its own it's album good. It was too good
for its.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Own own good. And that's the next Hanson song.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It's like no.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
The other thing that's in this is that they said
the lyrics weren't inspired by one one artist in portrayo,
the first music that got into was fifties and sixties.
If anything. Mbab was inspired by the Beach Boys. And
you can see that, right, and so that definitely I
see that too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Would and it be nice mbomb your hair's gone wood
and it be nice mumbob it's back.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It wouldn't it be nice though, if you lose your
hair and it comes back.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
That's a nice mashy.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I'm actually trying to find some anti chances because I
give it so much of a chance because it's by
children for children and.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
But CDC, Yeah, DC.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's by a c DC. I think it's so lovely
in certain ways, and I can understand how if you know,
I think probably the hatred of it came at the time,
like you know, like it's it's this happens where there's
like you know, whether it's like justin Bieber peaches on
the radio every day or just like everywhere you go
(16:37):
you start to be like, Okay, maybe do we have
to hear that song again, or like a Taylor Swift
song like Shaken or Saturated. Yeah, And I mean it
happens with everyone. It's like it's like the White Stripes
had a like a football game. Now it's like damn
d like every time you're like, okay, it's you know.
But I bet that's where most of that, at the time,
the hatred of umbab came. And I do believe that
(17:00):
people probably now hear it and they're like, oh yeah,
remember this.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh absolutely, I mean I think and I do think
there's a few things I think it was there's a
saturation point that gets hit and then people can't. It's yeah,
it's like anything that becomes ubiquity. People love it on
the way, and then it's the ubiquity and then everyone's like,
I cannot hear this again, And of course there's some
people who never love it on the way. I think
(17:25):
the other thing with them, though, is with something like this,
exactly what is its super strength is it's simultaneously it's
super weakness. These are three like clean cut. This is
like the most vanilla shit in the world. Like it's
like three clean cut young like sort of like there.
(17:45):
It was like the whole tagline with them was almost
like it's like Disney. It's like a disnified kitty pop
thing that you can actually like if you're a music head,
you could stand by it because these kids actually wrote
and played this shit like it's not like it was
handed to them and it's like they're just like standing there,
you know, doing some sort of Corey gra They wrote
(18:05):
this stuff in there.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And that's even more at Jackson five, right, because like
totally they played those instruments and you're so right and
and stuff like this, especially in the nineties and the
mid nineties, like Hanson walked to that Hannah Montana could
run right, it's like that we're.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Still come out what was six? Okay. So the other
thing is they're also serving they were what whatever knives
were drawn at this song when it happened. It's also
a transitional thing, like this was before Backstreet Boys and
the nunk and all that stuff. Just thinking at it's
so it's actually yo in a weird way, they're a
(18:41):
crazy bridge where the two halves of the nineties happened
because they are in a way referencing the kind of
authenticity porn that surrounded like grunge and all that stuff.
Because these kids are playing their own instruments, they're making
music with the Dust Brothers. They're like, it's got to
be post odlay but pre this stuff becoming like a
(19:05):
Dust Brothers go on to do like the Fight Club soundtrack,
a bunch of music in the late nineties. But like
so they're and you know, okay, they are like a band.
They're a band. They're they're three people playing they write songs,
they play instruments. They probably rehearsed in their basement or
their garage or whatever, and they were and so there's that,
but they're they're also becoming What's about to take over,
(19:28):
which is this title wave of like literally Disney sort
of Disney Farm League Pop Sensation. And so actually that's
funny listening to it. It really does. They actually are
some weird hinge between like this is like and I
bet all these kids liked like, yes, the Jackson five
and all that stuff, But I also bet they liked
Pearl Jam and still in Tumble Pilots and Nirvana. I
(19:51):
bet they played those songs too with each other.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I bet you they still got the stigma of like
industry plant, you know, which like gets thrown around a
lot in the nineties. Would even be like Weezer's an
industry plant, and like, uh, you know, because it was
like one guy and they built a band around it, right,
And then obviously Silver Chair was like a big one.
They're like, that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Industry and that's funny. Silverchair is like the grunge version
of Hansen.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Kind of crazy like, and they got a lot, they
got a flak just because they were like coming on
the after Nirvana as he look like he was.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, I also think it's funny you talk about industry plant,
because that does lead me to the one thing I
do need to talk about lyrically. I don't know that
I think they might have bitten off more than they
could chew or gardened more than they could harvest from
this whole plant metaphor this movie. Through the song, I
don't really understand it. They keep talking about like will
it be a rose? Will it be a daisy? You
(20:44):
don't know. You should know you could do their seeds
like it are replanting roses or replanting daisies. It's not
a fucking mystery.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, but you gotta you gotta think, like even
even like Elton John is like, you know, if I
was a sculptor, But then again no, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well then that's that's of course Bernie Taup. So yeah,
you know, we can't even give Elton. We can't hang
the l on Elton for that one. Although that's I
always thought that was kind of conversation. It is funny
that he left that. It's like, so that's a bit
of a day or two. It's conversational, you know what
I mean, he's like fires sculpting, But then again no, yeah,
but no, I feel like there was something specific that
(21:21):
they kept the fact that they kept coming back to
the plant and flower thing. It's like there's like seventy
parts of this song where he's like, I mean that's
give or take. It's not scientific. Which flower is gonna grow?
You can't because you don't know. Is it going to
be a daisy or a rose? You can't because you
don't know. Come on, that's the game. What is that?
I mean like you say it's the good that you're
(21:42):
lost in contemplations about it, but I was. I was
setting off some alarms for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
The thing that I give the most chance to it
with all this is like it's a child and I
don't mean it is like to get away with it,
but it gives me. Like you know, your your mom
plants does a lot of the work for your mom
plants the seeds, and you're just like, what is it?
What's it going to be? Totally like you don't know yet,
like even though she knows, but she's like, let's see.
And it's like it's like from the perspective and you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You're talking about childlike joy and wonder and that's look,
what's what more to give a chancey to than that
that's you're right, But just just for the record, I
do I would be remiss as as the litigious, of course,
the reltigious, the litigi the litigator in our binary.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Here, Rick, come over the coals.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Plan a seed, plan a flower, plan a rose. You
can plan any one of those. Actually, this seed will
become the flower, and a kind of flower is a rose,
so you can't. I mean, it's kind of one. Yeah,
I guess maybe they're talking about the Holy Trinity seed
flower rose.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's what it is. Oh, I think they do. They
are like the Christians now or something.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's probably why they got a little bit of blowback
in that period of time too, from like more discerning
critical people keep planning to find out which one grows.
It's a secret. No one knows. It's a secret. No
one knows. Oh, no one knows. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I could like here, it's crazy though. I could hear
the harmonies even though you're not even singing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I know it's really good. There is no I feel like,
what would you what kind of heartless bastard would you
have to be to be like like unmitigated in your
criticism of this. It's it's it's extremely likable. Maybe the
(23:43):
thing I think what IT got the most flack for
was just it again, it's super strength, is it's Achilles heel,
it's open face kind of like there's actually more kind
of even if I don't think it's it's as deep
as you're going to get for three children, right, although
sometimes of course kids say the darnedess things cases you know,
you know, but I do think there are there is
(24:07):
actually more happening in the lyric than might be evident
through just the sunshine of the chord progression and lyrical
thing and the top of it all. There is actually
stuff there like wrestling with about like what matters and
mortality and whatever in whatever nascent ways. But I do
think like it probably that the things that are it's
(24:27):
most shining attributes are also like yeah, there's probably just
audies of people that were just like this shit's fucking cheesy, dude,
like I can't, I can't get in for It's like
that story. We've talked this probably on the podcast before.
I must have about Tommy Lee Jones, right, and my
brother got me the shirt. It's that there are people
who are just gonna be like I can't, I don't
give it can be the best version of this. I
(24:49):
cannot fuck with this on any level because it's just
too and to those people I understand there is a
certain kind of person who's just like, I don't care
if bops a measurement of time. I don't care if
it's a rose, a daisy, or an accidental sunflower. I'm
not interested in hand Man times three. That's what I
(25:11):
call hand send hand Man times three, hand Man Montanas.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right, that's a thing, yeah, right right, no, no, no, yeah,
that is a thing. I feel like really like you're
you're in the home. Yeah, you're taking your asylum.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, right, that is a thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Come on, that's definitely that. Yeah. Or like it's like
an improv scene where like one person's off the rails
and everyone has to be like.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yes, yes, and hand Man Montanas and the hand three?
Did they what was it? What did they know each other?
Or was she much later? This is I lose track
of this kind of stuff. She came much later, right,
like ten years later?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think, so, yeah, I don't yeah, I'm trying to think,
so this is this is ninety five.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
This it's crazy that this is ninety five music in
the nineties really was wild, Like what's happening? Oh yeah,
like this was on MTV, but this.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Is also Presidents of the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And is that that different? Actually that's what you're talking. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Remember the plant was the plant Man. It was like
the original drummer of Pavement.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Oh he had a I don't even Steve West, right,
that was that, and.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Then he made this thing.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Do you do not remember the plant plant Man? No? God,
if I know this at all, it's the dude from it.
I mean I remember he was. I feel like he's
no longer with us. I feel like he might have
been a heavy hitter with the drink. Steve West.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Oh, Gary Young? No, Gary Young.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Steve Young was Steve West to replaced the second drummer.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I don't remember, but Gary maybe.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
There was no one in Pavement who's ever been named
Steve West.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, I actually I didn't recognize it. So Gary Young
plant Man is something you need to check out.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Okay, I'm surprised.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You don't remember it, because you actually might once you like, see, do.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You have like a semi hit with it? Like a I.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Think we should we should watch it right now. I'm
gonna I'm gonna drop it in this chat, and I
think we should watch it and then just find the
rest of this to talk about it, because I want
to take people back.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
But I feel, okay, God, he's gonna send it, click and.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
We'll play a very small amount, but then you'll go
and watch it.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
All right, I'll mute it. Plant Man, Gary Young is
his name?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
All right?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You guys watched this at home?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Plant Man?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
No, the plants will go plan the plants. Who yo.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I have zero recollection of that, So okay, that's crazy
because I remember it and I was like a fan
of the band, and like, listen, I know who he was,
like used to stand on his head on.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
The drum, Yeah, throwing at their shows. Was great drummer,
but they had to get rid of him because he
was nuts. Basically.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I met him once in Rhode Island, where I think
he like was living, and and it was yeah, he
was like, you probably want to talk to me about
Pavement or something like. It was like he was like that.
It was he was cool, but.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So you just want you saw him in the wild
somewhere and just went up to him.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I was on tour with Bonds. Yeah by Straanberg and
Joe and Bergio, and he was at this bar that
he I think the bartender was like, yeah, that's carry
young over there. He works here sometimes where he's here
all the time. Whoa, But it was kind of a
it all feels surreal to me now. But anyway, so
that song and music video, it's indicative of the time.
(28:41):
Even the look of it feels.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Like totally like it could be on What's the show?
Yes exactly? Is that what you exactly? Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
It all feels like Pete and Pete, Like even even
umbab feels like it could have been on Pete and Pete.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Like totally happy People. Is not that different from is
not that different from plant Man, is not that different
from presidents of the United States.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like in the Daylight, like you know what I mean,
like totally yeah yeah, but but yeah, there's something very
you know, uh, California about it all too. And I
don't mean like la, I mean like like northern.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, like the weird the good cool weird shit like a.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, but it all nineties like that stuff that's not
like the obviously like the massive you know, Nirvana's and
smashing pumpkins and whatnot. Like aside from all that stuff.
The the other stuff that's like was one hit Wonders
but like weird ones like Presidents, it's in America and
so on. That stuff is so fun I love and
(29:49):
I'm too sexy. It's like these are all such like
what a strange decade of music. And maybe I feel
that way because it was like my decade. But it's
it's really funny.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
No, I think so, And I think maybe that's a
good place to kind of land the plane is it
feels like I do think maybe my biggest takeaway from
this because I don't know that it's changed how I
felt about I mean, I've always kind of felt like
Hanson was of a slightly different character than the things
with which it is often associated, just by dint of
the fact, I think, even the fact that somebody like
(30:20):
the Dust Brothers was involved with this at that time,
not that the Dust Brothers are like I don't know
that the upper echelon of objective taste or anything, but
they made some very cool stuff and worked with some
cool people. I think that the besides money and besides
whatever else changes hands to get people to work with people.
I think part of it is that you know, these
are these what was always the selling point was like
(30:43):
they were actually like good musicians who could sing and
play and wrote their own stuff even from a very
early age. And that's like credible and cool in its way,
but it also really does it's funny they are positioned
in this funny lineage of yes novel t nineties hits,
(31:03):
but also they become this weird hinge between the like
live band early nineties and the like pop confection late nineties,
and that's wild. Actually I'd never really know, And now
it also reminds like makes me I genuinely do mean,
I feel like the biggest chance of all to them,
just from a career perspective, Unlike some of the other
(31:25):
things we've moved through, they still they like really there's
like a love of music and writing and performing with
these people. They still tour. They've had like a like
a rich career of a long discography. I know people
who come to shows of mine that you'll be like,
have you seen anything cool? And you're like, well, I
saw Hanson two months ago, and you're like, really, like,
(31:48):
people still.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Go and so but a lot of ways you are
the fourth Hanson.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mean, I wasn't gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You are though you are, You're Kevin Hanson.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
And I definitely also appreciate that you're on a computer
and I'm on a computer, because not only did you
just say it, but you sprayed it too. That's gross.
You need to clean off the screen.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Sorry, Yes I do, Yes, I do, Kevin putting the
jacket on.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Come on, Hannah's montanis.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Padded walls.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, give you a chance anyway, I saw, I say,
ultimately shouts the Hansen shouts.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You know, shouts of the dustiest thing.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We'll see you next time or if you if you want,
I'll see you in tournaments. I'll come right over.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Praise Kevin will be there.
Give it a chance, give it a chance, give it
a chick. Good morning, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance? Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Just give what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know me? Is that y'all know me to the
same LOGI but I've been low key until I've been
low key. Well you got a little basketball hoop going
on right there.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah. So I'm in somebody else's office because I needed
some peace and quiet for my podcast and my listeners
who I love and I'm obsessed with.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Send me money. Oh are you in mister Belding's office?
Are you in by the bell?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm in so much I'm gonna get expelled.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dude, you are you about to get expelled? Like today?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm about to get expelled right now because I want
to focus on my music career with my two brothers.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Wait, I think answers. I think that's a clue. It's
like Blues Clues or not Blues Clues, Door the Explorer,
so chancers, Yeah, I know it, you do, Hanson?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh my god, yo, our minds are intertwined.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I know. It's like it's like it's like a new
episode of Severance. I mean, I'm out of your any
you'r any. I'm Audi. I'm out of your any you'r
any I'm Audi.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's a big spoiler. Guys, very excited for this one
because this is on a lot of like people's lists
of like songs they like can't listen to, and I've
kind of always thought it was a bop.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
They're they well done, You're welcome, well done, Beef Wellington.
I feel like, uh yeah, look, I mean we'll get
into it. We'll get into it obviously before we go
any further. Must it's it's mandatory for me to point
out these three little boys at this point, especially a
lot of like just esthetically teeny bopper Cobanian vibe. So
(02:01):
gotta point out Nirvana within five men, just to point
out that, you know, I do think I used to
see there was a T shirt, like a bootleg T
shirt or some probably some kind of like niche like
skater brand or something that had them on it, and
said Nirvana.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, that's really fun, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, So without bring this is of course system of it, dount, No,
this is this is bop by Hanson. I mean, listen, yeah,
(02:44):
before we get into anything. Holy cow, I just kept
scrolling and scrolling so many lyrics, and the lyrics were
all the same lyrics. I'm not don't we'll get into
the lyrics. These people were eight years old and they
wrote it. You can't really judge it too harshly, but
my goodness, there's two parts of the song. How much
(03:04):
can be said? How many times you gotta say it?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I will say though, that we talk about bridges a lot.
I thought this bridge was very successful. I liked it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I want you to tell me what the bridge is?
What is the bridge in this song? Which part do
you identify as the bridge?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, it kind of becomes several different things in one,
but I think it begins with can you tell me? No,
you can't because you don't know. Can you tell me?
You say you can, but you don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So there's some things I want to talk about about that.
But I feel like it's like really coming at this
the wrong way. If I start with my anti chancy
being the lyrics of a fourth grader.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well here my other thought is, I don't think that
this was written by them. I mean, I think elements
of it what were But if you listen to this recording,
that kid's not playing drums, and then there's a whole
pretty good bass on it that no one seems to.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Do you think it's not them performing.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Oh no, I mean there's a huge bassline there that
so it's a guitar player, a keyboard player in that
childhood plays drums.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, And then now I was probably thirty one years old,
thirty four years old, it's forty years old. I don't
know how old he is something.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Like that, but I think that that's definitely like studio
musicians playing maybe everything. I even don't know if they
wrote it, because maybe they did. Look, maybe they did.
I give benefit. I want to give them the band.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I mean, yo, look, I'm telling you. It says right
here on my streaming platform of choice. It says Isaac
Hanson vocals, guitar, it says ih Isaac Hanson, Okay. Then
it says thh Taylor Hanson vocals, piano, guitar, keyboards, lead, vocals, drums, guitar,
and then it says z Hanson drums, vocals. The Dust
(04:50):
Brothers produced this, which is.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So crazy because because because the drums make me think
of that I was thinking of Beck. I was thinking
of Beac Boys in the drums. Like the way it started,
I was like, oh, this is a sample. It felt
like a sample. I think he's but he's playing that
and yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Says it's a combo of Taylor and z Now on
my streaming platform of choice, doesn't even tell tells me,
tells me. It doesn't even tells me Z's name, just
as z dot Hanson, what is his name? Their name
is Zach Zach Okay, Zach Hanson, Zachary Hanson, and it says, Look,
it doesn't say like, I'll tell you this. There's a guy,
(05:29):
the mixing engineer who I think was a very famous
and successful mixing engineer. The name always this name always
kills me. Tom Lord Algae.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh great name, great name.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I think he worked. I think I met this person.
I think he worked on this, this songwriter, Rachel Yamagata's
music that I did some touring with. I think, like,
I'm I feel like I met this person. I remember
like being incapable of maintaining an inner seriousness about meeting
a person whose name was Tom Lord Algae. I was
just like that, come on, dude.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
This is impossible for me.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
A name you would make up like in a song
and exactly improvised.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And then there he was, all six two of them.
Don't drink a wabble if my mind remembers correctly. Sorry,
back to the chancy. We don't need to give a
chancey to Tla Tom Lord Alge. We all know he's
got the chancy at the wazoo. Okay, so yours your
contention is because we can get come back to the lyrics.
I love this is already in a beautiful way chaotic.
(06:34):
Are we chancing? Are we anti chancing? It's hard to
tell right away.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
My question is your contention is that you don't think
they're performing this on the track.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I mean, there's definitely I think it's sweetened. I think
it's sweetened with other studio musicians. I don't doubt that
they probably all played something on it. And I don't
even doubt that they're not good at playing their instruments.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
They're very good apparently at by all accounts, at all
of those things they've aged into. It continued. I have
like there are grown ass people. I know there are
still like active Hansen fans. They like go see them
live and.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Stuff No I and I bet you that they've created
like a whole you know, discography of of stuff that
has been good and in fact, like the chancey I
give this song is that I like it. I even
think that the chorus, which which in a a in
a good in a bad and good way, feels like
when you know, when like dummy lyrics, like when you're like, oh,
(07:24):
I know what the song's gonna be. And I think
if you forced lyrics onto it, which you could have,
I think it like kind of pulls back the curtain
and shows like the process of a songwriter. And I
think it's really fun that they like they whoever decided
this took the risk to be like, let's not just
fill it in. It's so infectious and I give I
(07:44):
give them flowers for it does kind of taste it
like Ellen Apple released as a phone and they're like,
it takes a brave choice to remove the headphone jack
it's brave to put in the thing that's like not
finished totally. And I can't help but get Jackson five
vibes and that's like my favorite era of you know,
Michael Jackson and his his singing is like it's it's
(08:05):
the you know, it's pop music is is always kind
of best when it's like four children by children. It's
the fubu of music for kids.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
This is I want that shit to get aggregated. That
is so good. Pop music's always at its best when
it's four children by children.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I know what You're right.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Though, because it ultimately is a confection, like pop music is. Look,
I don't know what. I don't know enough sort of
like musicology historically or whatever to know about Like, I
don't know, I even I'm not super well versed in this,
like like other people who've made like careers out of it,
even from like the fifties forward, but I do know, like,
(08:49):
let's start with things like Elvis and stuff like that,
you know, like the Big Bopper and Chubby Check or
all that kind of shit, and then obviously through the
Beatles and forward. Pop music is kind of I mean,
these kid kids are even kind of younger than the
demo in some ways. But pop music is a like
it's a confection. It's supposed to be something sweet and
(09:11):
kind of like sugary and kind of like best served
to and digested by you know, young, excitable people. That
doesn't mean that there's not sometimes things that become that
move around in that space that are like a higher
concept or higher quality, or that there's not like relative
you know, better and worse versions of it. But I
(09:32):
do think even for adults, like I think part of
what like the whole like poptimism movement in like music criticism,
with trying to like rest back the kind of like
the way people write about, like writing about Sabrina Carpenter,
the way one might write about like Bob Dylan and
Neil Young or something. I think that was a corrective
to be like, we can actually also engage with texts
(09:55):
like this that aren't just like by like you know,
canonical old white guys or whatever. I think sometimes there's
an over correction with that, where we're now supposed to
talk about Taylor Swift the way we talk about like
Mount Eerie or something like that. I think those are
like really different things. But I digress with this. What
I think the point of this music is is almost
(10:17):
for adults, it's actually to reconnect to that inner child
part in you that like sweetness, that like and so
I think part of why this appealed because this didn't
just appeal to like twelve year olds. There were like
grown ups that like this, and it's because of what
you're saying. It's obviously a Jackson five homage that like
open faced major chord kind of like joyful and yearning.
(10:40):
The quality of the vocal performance, it's totally going for
that kind of like it's a kid pantomiming R and B.
But kids who can like sing and play and they
know the source material. And I think that that's really
You're right, You're right to point out that's its like
strongest suit. This is like infectious inarguable pop music for
(11:06):
kids by kids.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I love the vocal quality of the lead singer Tailor.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
He's singing his ass off, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, And it's like there's like a squeakiness that like
that Michael Jackson had when he was like a kid,
where it's like, really what he sounds like is what
like a woman in their twenties, like like a what's
what's uh?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Who?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Who was Gladys Knight? Like you know what? It's like
these like these like high vocal like it's John Lennon
also wanted like to sound like the.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
The the Cherrell's.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Because like if you look at songs like Happiness is
a warm gun where a bang bang shoo sho. Totally
like that stuff is like all do wop inspired, and
obviously Michael Jackson was and this is you know, it's
it's definitely the next iteration of that. But I just was,
can I read something?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
You can? Just I don't know if you can. You
might be under arrest.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, okay, well guess what I'm risking it? So all right,
So this is what the Hansen Bros.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Said.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
What the song talks about is you've got to hold
on to the things that really matter. Umbop represents a
frame of time or the futility of life. Things are
going to be gone, whether it's your age or your youth,
or maybe the money you have or whatever it is,
and all that's going to be left are the people
you've nurtured and have really built to be your backbone
and your support system. I'm laughing because that's so funny,
(12:45):
because like, as much as that is really beautiful, that
you're like, you remember when.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I said boo boop, Yeah, I was gonna say the.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Futility of life is you know, it's so funny, But also.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I need to have a critical question about that quote.
When is the attribution of that quote? Is that quote
that cannot be like nineteen ninety six or whatever this
song gotten before, Okay, because I was gonna say that
must have been for like any a VH one thing
or something.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Like for the interview by song facts like to like
and I.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
What I was gonna say, it's funny. I'm glad it
was affirmed by the writer. I never knew until I
was reading the lyrics along with listening to the song
that umbop was used at one point in this song
as a stand in for the passage of time, like
as a measurement of time. There's a part where he
says he says something done, yeah, and he says something
(13:36):
yeah exactly mbop it's done. Uh umbop they're in an
umbop they're gone, and an umbop they're not there, and
an umbop they're gone, and an umbop they're not there
until you lose your hair ooh, which you don't care. Look,
there's some stuff I want to talk about a lot
of the lyrics, but that being said, yeah, it does seem
they are like there is this thing moving through the song.
(13:58):
I think that's correctly identify by the writer, which might
sound like a funy thing to say because you're like,
of course it is, they wrote it. I think there's
sometimes they hear songwriters talk about their songs and I'm like,
I don't care if you think that's what it's about.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah totally, or like that might
be what it's about, but you did not execute at
the level of writing with like metaphor or whatever that
You're like, there's things someone might be like.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yo, that's supposed to stand in for, like the passage
of time, and you're like, no, it's not what How
explain break it down for me? How this one? I
can see it? I get it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Sure. The other side of the coin of that is
like chocolate rain, which we discussed, which was like it's
I didn't even realize it was about that, and it's
so to the point it's clearly this is what it
is about, and you're like, oh wow, like they beat
it overhead and I still didn't. Well, the truth is
I never really listened to it, but from like the
memes you see it around, like I didn't put it together,
(14:50):
and it's like got such meaning behind it and it's
very obvious.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But that was almost too, like that was also like
a dare in some way. I wonder about his intentionality
with that too, because it's like that's he effectively wrote
like a hard rain's gonna fall, yeah yeah or something,
or like uh, it's all right, mom, only bleeding. But
then he made it into like a cartoon mimified, like
(15:15):
no one was gonna find the meaning in that, because
it was like completely presented as a I mean, that's
like such an effective trojan horse that like you forget
to push the horse through the gate or something like
you just leave it outside. It was like too good
for its own it's album good. It was too good
for its.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Own own good. And that's the next Hanson song.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It's like no.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
The other thing that's in this is that they said
the lyrics weren't inspired by one one artist in portrayo,
the first music that got into was fifties and sixties.
If anything. Mbab was inspired by the Beach Boys. And
you can see that, right, and so that definitely I
see that too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Would and it be nice mbomb your hair's gone wood
and it be nice mumbob it's back.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It wouldn't it be nice though, if you lose your
hair and it comes back.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
That's a nice mashy.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I'm actually trying to find some anti chances because I
give it so much of a chance because it's by
children for children and.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
But CDC, Yeah, DC.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's by a c DC. I think it's so lovely
in certain ways, and I can understand how if you know,
I think probably the hatred of it came at the time,
like you know, like it's it's this happens where there's
like you know, whether it's like justin Bieber peaches on
the radio every day or just like everywhere you go
(16:37):
you start to be like, Okay, maybe do we have
to hear that song again, or like a Taylor Swift
song like Shaken or Saturated. Yeah, And I mean it
happens with everyone. It's like it's like the White Stripes
had a like a football game. Now it's like damn
d like every time you're like, okay, it's you know.
But I bet that's where most of that, at the time,
the hatred of umbab came. And I do believe that
(17:00):
people probably now hear it and they're like, oh yeah,
remember this.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh absolutely, I mean I think and I do think
there's a few things I think it was there's a
saturation point that gets hit and then people can't. It's yeah,
it's like anything that becomes ubiquity. People love it on
the way, and then it's the ubiquity and then everyone's like,
I cannot hear this again, And of course there's some
people who never love it on the way. I think
(17:25):
the other thing with them, though, is with something like this,
exactly what is its super strength is it's simultaneously it's
super weakness. These are three like clean cut. This is
like the most vanilla shit in the world. Like it's
like three clean cut young like sort of like there.
(17:45):
It was like the whole tagline with them was almost
like it's like Disney. It's like a disnified kitty pop
thing that you can actually like if you're a music head,
you could stand by it because these kids actually wrote
and played this shit like it's not like it was
handed to them and it's like they're just like standing there,
you know, doing some sort of Corey gra They wrote
(18:05):
this stuff in there.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And that's even more at Jackson five, right, because like
totally they played those instruments and you're so right and
and stuff like this, especially in the nineties and the
mid nineties, like Hanson walked to that Hannah Montana could
run right, it's like that we're.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Still come out what was six? Okay. So the other
thing is they're also serving they were what whatever knives
were drawn at this song when it happened. It's also
a transitional thing, like this was before Backstreet Boys and
the nunk and all that stuff. Just thinking at it's
so it's actually yo in a weird way, they're a
(18:41):
crazy bridge where the two halves of the nineties happened
because they are in a way referencing the kind of
authenticity porn that surrounded like grunge and all that stuff.
Because these kids are playing their own instruments, they're making
music with the Dust Brothers. They're like, it's got to
be post odlay but pre this stuff becoming like a
(19:05):
Dust Brothers go on to do like the Fight Club soundtrack,
a bunch of music in the late nineties. But like
so they're and you know, okay, they are like a band.
They're a band. They're they're three people playing they write songs,
they play instruments. They probably rehearsed in their basement or
their garage or whatever, and they were and so there's that,
but they're they're also becoming What's about to take over,
(19:28):
which is this title wave of like literally Disney sort
of Disney Farm League Pop Sensation. And so actually that's
funny listening to it. It really does. They actually are
some weird hinge between like this is like and I
bet all these kids liked like, yes, the Jackson five
and all that stuff, But I also bet they liked
Pearl Jam and still in Tumble Pilots and Nirvana. I
(19:51):
bet they played those songs too with each other.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I bet you they still got the stigma of like
industry plant, you know, which like gets thrown around a
lot in the nineties. Would even be like Weezer's an
industry plant, and like, uh, you know, because it was
like one guy and they built a band around it, right,
And then obviously Silver Chair was like a big one.
They're like, that's the.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Industry and that's funny. Silverchair is like the grunge version
of Hansen.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Kind of crazy like, and they got a lot, they
got a flak just because they were like coming on
the after Nirvana as he look like he was.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, I also think it's funny you talk about industry plant,
because that does lead me to the one thing I
do need to talk about lyrically. I don't know that
I think they might have bitten off more than they
could chew or gardened more than they could harvest from
this whole plant metaphor this movie. Through the song, I
don't really understand it. They keep talking about like will
it be a rose? Will it be a daisy? You
(20:44):
don't know. You should know you could do their seeds
like it are replanting roses or replanting daisies. It's not
a fucking mystery.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, but you gotta you gotta think, like even
even like Elton John is like, you know, if I
was a sculptor, But then again no, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Well then that's that's of course Bernie Taup. So yeah,
you know, we can't even give Elton. We can't hang
the l on Elton for that one. Although that's I
always thought that was kind of conversation. It is funny
that he left that. It's like, so that's a bit
of a day or two. It's conversational, you know what
I mean, he's like fires sculpting, But then again no, yeah,
but no, I feel like there was something specific that
(21:21):
they kept the fact that they kept coming back to
the plant and flower thing. It's like there's like seventy
parts of this song where he's like, I mean that's
give or take. It's not scientific. Which flower is gonna grow?
You can't because you don't know. Is it going to
be a daisy or a rose? You can't because you
don't know. Come on, that's the game. What is that?
I mean like you say it's the good that you're
(21:42):
lost in contemplations about it, but I was. I was
setting off some alarms for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
The thing that I give the most chance to it
with all this is like it's a child and I
don't mean it is like to get away with it,
but it gives me. Like you know, your your mom
plants does a lot of the work for your mom
plants the seeds, and you're just like, what is it?
What's it going to be? Totally like you don't know yet,
like even though she knows, but she's like, let's see.
And it's like it's like from the perspective and you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You're talking about childlike joy and wonder and that's look,
what's what more to give a chancey to than that
that's you're right, But just just for the record, I
do I would be remiss as as the litigious, of course,
the reltigious, the litigi the litigator in our binary.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Here, Rick, come over the coals.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Plan a seed, plan a flower, plan a rose. You
can plan any one of those. Actually, this seed will
become the flower, and a kind of flower is a rose,
so you can't. I mean, it's kind of one. Yeah,
I guess maybe they're talking about the Holy Trinity seed
flower rose.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's what it is. Oh, I think they do. They
are like the Christians now or something.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's probably why they got a little bit of blowback
in that period of time too, from like more discerning
critical people keep planning to find out which one grows.
It's a secret. No one knows. It's a secret. No
one knows. Oh, no one knows. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I could like here, it's crazy though. I could hear
the harmonies even though you're not even singing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I know it's really good. There is no I feel like,
what would you what kind of heartless bastard would you
have to be to be like like unmitigated in your
criticism of this. It's it's it's extremely likable. Maybe the
(23:43):
thing I think what IT got the most flack for
was just it again, it's super strength, is it's Achilles heel,
it's open face kind of like there's actually more kind
of even if I don't think it's it's as deep
as you're going to get for three children, right, although
sometimes of course kids say the darnedess things cases you know,
you know, but I do think there are there is
(24:07):
actually more happening in the lyric than might be evident
through just the sunshine of the chord progression and lyrical
thing and the top of it all. There is actually
stuff there like wrestling with about like what matters and
mortality and whatever in whatever nascent ways. But I do
think like it probably that the things that are it's
(24:27):
most shining attributes are also like yeah, there's probably just
audies of people that were just like this shit's fucking cheesy, dude,
like I can't, I can't get in for It's like
that story. We've talked this probably on the podcast before.
I must have about Tommy Lee Jones, right, and my
brother got me the shirt. It's that there are people
who are just gonna be like I can't, I don't
give it can be the best version of this. I
(24:49):
cannot fuck with this on any level because it's just
too and to those people I understand there is a
certain kind of person who's just like, I don't care
if bops a measurement of time. I don't care if
it's a rose, a daisy, or an accidental sunflower. I'm
not interested in hand Man times three. That's what I
(25:11):
call hand send hand Man times three, hand Man Montanas.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Right, that's a thing, yeah, right right, no, no, no, yeah,
that is a thing. I feel like really like you're
you're in the home. Yeah, you're taking your asylum.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, right, that is a thing.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Come on, that's definitely that. Yeah. Or like it's like
an improv scene where like one person's off the rails
and everyone has to be like.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yes, yes, and hand Man Montanas and the hand three?
Did they what was it? What did they know each other?
Or was she much later? This is I lose track
of this kind of stuff. She came much later, right,
like ten years later?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think, so, yeah, I don't yeah, I'm trying to think,
so this is this is ninety five.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
This it's crazy that this is ninety five music in
the nineties really was wild, Like what's happening? Oh yeah,
like this was on MTV, but this.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Is also Presidents of the United States of America.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And is that that different? Actually that's what you're talking. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Remember the plant was the plant Man. It was like
the original drummer of Pavement.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Oh he had a I don't even Steve West, right,
that was that, and.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Then he made this thing.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Do you do not remember the plant plant Man? No? God,
if I know this at all, it's the dude from it.
I mean I remember he was. I feel like he's
no longer with us. I feel like he might have
been a heavy hitter with the drink. Steve West.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Oh, Gary Young? No, Gary Young.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Steve Young was Steve West to replaced the second drummer.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I don't remember, but Gary maybe.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
There was no one in Pavement who's ever been named
Steve West.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, I actually I didn't recognize it. So Gary Young
plant Man is something you need to check out.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Okay, I'm surprised.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
You don't remember it, because you actually might once you like, see, do.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You have like a semi hit with it? Like a I.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Think we should we should watch it right now. I'm
gonna I'm gonna drop it in this chat, and I
think we should watch it and then just find the
rest of this to talk about it, because I want
to take people back.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
But I feel, okay, God, he's gonna send it, click and.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
We'll play a very small amount, but then you'll go
and watch it.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
All right, I'll mute it. Plant Man, Gary Young is
his name?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
All right?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You guys watched this at home?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Plant Man?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
No, the plants will go plan the plants. Who yo.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I have zero recollection of that, So okay, that's crazy
because I remember it and I was like a fan
of the band, and like, listen, I know who he was,
like used to stand on his head on.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
The drum, Yeah, throwing at their shows. Was great drummer,
but they had to get rid of him because he
was nuts. Basically.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I met him once in Rhode Island, where I think
he like was living, and and it was yeah, he
was like, you probably want to talk to me about
Pavement or something like. It was like he was like that.
It was he was cool, but.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So you just want you saw him in the wild
somewhere and just went up to him.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I was on tour with Bonds. Yeah by Straanberg and
Joe and Bergio, and he was at this bar that
he I think the bartender was like, yeah, that's carry
young over there. He works here sometimes where he's here
all the time. Whoa, But it was kind of a
it all feels surreal to me now. But anyway, so
that song and music video, it's indicative of the time.
(28:41):
Even the look of it feels.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Like totally like it could be on What's the show?
Yes exactly? Is that what you exactly? Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
It all feels like Pete and Pete, Like even even
umbab feels like it could have been on Pete and Pete.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Like totally happy People. Is not that different from is
not that different from plant Man, is not that different
from presidents of the United States.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like in the Daylight, like you know what I mean,
like totally yeah yeah, but but yeah, there's something very
you know, uh, California about it all too. And I
don't mean like la, I mean like like northern.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, like the weird the good cool weird shit like a.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, but it all nineties like that stuff that's not
like the obviously like the massive you know, Nirvana's and
smashing pumpkins and whatnot. Like aside from all that stuff.
The the other stuff that's like was one hit Wonders
but like weird ones like Presidents, it's in America and
so on. That stuff is so fun I love and
(29:49):
I'm too sexy. It's like these are all such like
what a strange decade of music. And maybe I feel
that way because it was like my decade. But it's
it's really funny.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
No, I think so, And I think maybe that's a
good place to kind of land the plane is it
feels like I do think maybe my biggest takeaway from
this because I don't know that it's changed how I
felt about I mean, I've always kind of felt like
Hanson was of a slightly different character than the things
with which it is often associated, just by dint of
the fact, I think, even the fact that somebody like
(30:20):
the Dust Brothers was involved with this at that time,
not that the Dust Brothers are like I don't know
that the upper echelon of objective taste or anything, but
they made some very cool stuff and worked with some
cool people. I think that the besides money and besides
whatever else changes hands to get people to work with people.
I think part of it is that you know, these
are these what was always the selling point was like
(30:43):
they were actually like good musicians who could sing and
play and wrote their own stuff even from a very
early age. And that's like credible and cool in its way,
but it also really does it's funny they are positioned
in this funny lineage of yes novel t nineties hits,
(31:03):
but also they become this weird hinge between the like
live band early nineties and the like pop confection late nineties,
and that's wild. Actually I'd never really know, And now
it also reminds like makes me I genuinely do mean,
I feel like the biggest chance of all to them,
just from a career perspective, Unlike some of the other
(31:25):
things we've moved through, they still they like really there's
like a love of music and writing and performing with
these people. They still tour. They've had like a like
a rich career of a long discography. I know people
who come to shows of mine that you'll be like,
have you seen anything cool? And you're like, well, I
saw Hanson two months ago, and you're like, really, like,
(31:48):
people still.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Go and so but a lot of ways you are
the fourth Hanson.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mean, I wasn't gonna say it.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You are though you are, You're Kevin Hanson.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
And I definitely also appreciate that you're on a computer
and I'm on a computer, because not only did you
just say it, but you sprayed it too. That's gross.
You need to clean off the screen.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Sorry, Yes I do, Yes, I do, Kevin putting the
jacket on.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Come on, Hannah's montanis.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Padded walls.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah, give you a chance anyway, I saw, I say,
ultimately shouts the Hansen shouts.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You know, shouts of the dustiest thing.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We'll see you next time or if you if you want,
I'll see you in tournaments. I'll come right over.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Praise Kevin will be there.
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