July 24, 2025 • 36 mins
Kevin and Casey tackle the most successful prank in internet history: Never Gonna Give You Up. Is it just meme-core nonsense, or does Rick Astley actually kind of...slap? Kevin questions everything he thought he knew about white guys with deep voices, Casey wonders if they’ve been emotionally manipulated by a trench coat, and together they ask: is this song a joke, or are we the joke?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come morning, give it a chance. Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Give it a chi Do you want to
give it a chance, Give it a chance, give it
a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Just give it a chance. Welcome you got mail files done?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Best best Dave Chappelle vehicle. Probably you've got mail? Oh
do you know that?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah? I remember that.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was talking to someone recently about that. He's in
the direct support to T Hanks. That isn't that amazing?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
He did a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
He was in a bunch of weird movies like Nattie
Professor R.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I forgot he was in that. I mean half baked
of course, to a certain person, I'm a classy.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So welcome to Chappelle at a chance. We're breaking down
all the little movies Dave Chappelle was in before he
did all those stand up stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Listen's it's a hot property these days. I don't know
if we want to touch the third rail that is
Dave in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's very true, but that is fun that I just
pranked everyone by saying that the name was a different podcast, because.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That has to do with Today's artiste.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh no, okay, it's a prank artist.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, no, I wouldn't. This is not a novelty Are
we doing a Borat song? Yeah, that's I think the
only Borat song is throw the Jew down the Well
from his movie.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Honestly, that is that. The fact that he didn't die
is a minor miracle.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I think that it was like the crowd loved it,
which is also not cool.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, no, it's a lot there, it's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, but yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
All right. So it's a prank thing.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So is it?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Ah? Is this like Nathan Fielder stuff? We're gonna do
a Nathan Fielder thing. I'm doing a full Nathan episode. No,
this is a so this is it's not like a
prank artist. It's not a novelty artist. Okay, but I do.
I think you'll get it. Okay, this is the part
two people to things make No, that's Casey, that's seeing
(02:05):
Sea Music Factory. That's not that's too And what makes
you think that I don't know something about things prank
made me think of, like things that make you go hmm.
But that's more like coincidence than a prank. Okay, And
April Fools. Even April were doing Manchester Orchestra. They have
a song called.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
April the Oh my god, imagine we just put your
friends on blast.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That would be yeah, that would be your relationship ending stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Okay, one more incredible people and we're gonna talk about
poopy about it. Weird al No, I don't think there
is a weird al song that I could put to this.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Not give a chance to Oh, okay, god, I'm in
the woods God. That is a concept by John Lennon.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, God, was that we're doing?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Now?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
What we're doing? Because I think that song is too good.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a good song. I sang that song with her
once with a group of people on stage in the
City Winery, and it was very odd. It was in
the post hurricane son. That's that's the story for another time. Yeah,
or maybe it was a face nice all right, sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Let me see if I can let me clear my throat.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Is it that?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh? That would be good?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
But no, that's like a good that's a great song,
I know, So hold on, let me let me see
if I could I have Oh, actually maybe I should.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Maybe I should show you our our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Do you guys, we do. I do need to know
who our sponsor for today is. It's just good for
me to know that anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, Art thou board snap into a slim gym. Here
you go, here's our here's our sponsor, Kevin. Okay, double
clicked enter Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Oh my god, Wow, Casey stepping into the fourth dimension here.
This is like a whole new thing for us.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
There is.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
My daughter knows what a Rick roll is and she's
nine years old and it's twenty twenty five. Wow. You know,
I don't know the last time I've actually listened, I
wasn't going to get that, by the way, I could
have guessed all day and I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But it's a prank.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It's a prank. It's become prank, It's become maybe is
that a vitology? What does that hat? Can you look down?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh it's I.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Thought it was vitology by Pearl Jam.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Grip, Yeah, that would be cool. All right, So we're
doing Rick Astley never going to give you up, which
I don't even know if I've heard in full right.
Since I was a child.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
This meme has been going since like the early two
thousands and it's really interesting because a banger, isn't it.
Let's see, see that's what's interesting about it, right, Like,
so I did some I did some research on it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and before.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We let you are the research arm of the give
it a chance group, I would say, yeah, yeah, I
like a doctorate in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
In musicology and a doctor intology.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You owe me a.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Kevin Kevin Kevin, so you could talk.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh, thank god, it's really interesting pot actually that maybe
people would have preferred that.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, they don't like I hear you out there.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You fucking haters, sorry Leonard Cohen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So uh or Rick rolling them by not even talking
about the song. But before we play it, I just
want to say that, So this was this started in
like the early two thousands, Okay, one of the they
don't really know why this song was picked there was
it Just like there's a person who reportedly did it
to a radio station and it happened again at some
other point.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's there's a few things that like people caught on
to to make it bigger and bigger and bigger, with
like various websites like four chan and even YouTube was
but like you know, early obviously for like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And switching links you think you're yay.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's how I first got it for sure.
Was like someone sending me a YouTube link to like, oh,
check out this band, we'd like to open your show
or something, and then you click on it and it
was that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And the reason why I kind of chose this is
because it had this especially I think when it started
in the two thousands, like it. It was like something
about the song is corny, right and like it and
just like out of its really it's like the whole
video it's jarring. In the two thousands, the way things
looked like this video, the way it opens was like jarring.
(06:38):
And it's also he's got this deep voice for such
a young lad.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yo. I think the rap I've heard, and I'm only
saying this because I have heard. I can't forget what
it was, but I'm just gonna go on the record.
I think the thing with Rick Astley at the time
in nineteen eighty seven, something like that six seven, Yeah,
I think so he was a redheaded white score where
dude that black people thought was black when they first
(07:04):
heard the singing because he has this like really profound
bass kind of voice R and B voice, and he's
singing that style. And I think that's like the joke
about him.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I think the thing that ended up maybe becoming like
quote Corny is yes, the.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Aesthetics, the visual, but also just his aesthetics and visual
like that just he's like he like looks, he's just
like a kind of he was like howdy duty or
something like that. Yeah, yeah, which I know because I
definitely had times in my life have looked like how
do you do?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
There's a couple of notable people like that that have
that same phenomenon. Another big one is is Bobby Caldwell
which is which is what you Won't Do Do for Love?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, that song is like a nice That's a big
one that like that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
When people found out that he was white, people were like,
well really yeah, yeah I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And of course people thought when teen Spirit came out
of was like, oh is he black?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And yeah, Ivana, there you go, and how you're going
to drop it today? That's how you're gonna drop them
in Well then like.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Also Leonard Cohen because a really deep voice like a
and then honestly with Elliott like it was more.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Like the new one and when Pavement a new one.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Anyway, let's jump into this song and then we'll and
then we'll uh, we'll discuss.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Talk about Pavement.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That's right, Wow overall overall thoughts hit me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I mean, that's a really good song.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I agree, I can to give this a chance.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
No, it's not. And I think it's funny because this
is a phenomenon that I think I might be like
a little under uh, like I know know the song
no him? Was he like a one hit wonder? Or
were there are other hits by him? This was about
the one right more or less? I think so because
(09:04):
I've been aware of this song in the ether, like
since I've been aware of pop music from my like
I would have been eight when this came out. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh he's got together forever.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Oh that's also him. Yeah that's a big hit. Yeah,
I remember correctly those are two because that's what I said.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think I said this a few times ago. You
always get to you always get the chance for the
for the dub.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And yes, they give you a chance.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Even where I said Fred, right, don't right talk just
kids with your own woods and sounds.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And that it's Rick Astley doing it. I know I did.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I also there was a song called cry for Help.
I don't know it take Me to you, Oh, take
me to your Heart?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Is that him?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Take Me to your Heart?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Is that not that song?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think you were just singing listen to your hot.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes, that's what I was. That's what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That that's rock Sette. They had like Rosette had listen
to your Heart, right, I must have been in love
but all great song, that's the one. And they also
had like come on join the joy, right. They may
have had three or four hits.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Wow that Yeah, you're the photology major.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Turns out that I'm the one who's listening to a corduroy.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So I think the only heads out there, I think
the only anti I Chancy I could sort of give
this Let's start is that it's not my exact lens, right,
Like I think this this song. I think this song,
but but if you changed a few things, I think
it is my lens because like they're, like you mentioned
(10:41):
with some of those other prescriptions, slightly off right. There
is twenty forty and you need twenty thirty five honestly,
Like I love the Immaculate Collection by Madonna. I put
it on all the time. I love the way it
sounds right like, and I don't think that's that far
from this, and I don't know if it's like a
female vocalist maybe.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Doing this song, huge difference.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The only thing that Rick, for me lacks a little
bit is identity. It is sort of a novelty that
he's got this deep voice and he's dressed, at least
in this video he is dressed like the whitest man
on earth. It's really amazing, like they really like it's club.
It's like to a t from that time and so funny,
(11:21):
so so like. But if that's what he's showing us,
that's the identity I'm getting, which is like, obviously it's
so intertwined with music, is the idea, right, So so
I think that's the lens that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But even sonically there's.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's so polished, Like there's something about the Immaculate Collection
that like left grit on it and like the Groove
Get Into the Groove has that. But even just the
drums on songs like material Girl, like that drummer just
went for it. It's so like ahead of the beat,
and and this is feels a little bit more stock
(11:55):
in some of the or a little uh, you know,
what's that?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
What's that word for it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Sterile in some manicure very Yeah, yeah, And sometimes I
love that and sometimes I want I think, like, especially
with pop music, I like it a little bit of apid, right,
like a touch of appid. Yeah, yeah, the sterileness is
kind of fun. But that being said, that's like the
that's a reach for the anti chance.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, that's pretty good if that's like your primary. Yeah,
we're definitely not talking about something that's like horrifically offensive
on a variety of levels or whatever. It to some sensibility, right,
(12:40):
you know, I think I think I think the thing
you're you're you're touching on, it's it's it is like
a rich subject. I feel like about his aesthetic and
the kind of I feel like I wasn't there, but
I feel like there's some percentage of what went on
with an artist like Workhastley, where even in like the
genesis the marketing phase, right as they're they knew like
(13:02):
all right, we've got this, like maybe who knows we'd
have to do a dive on Rick Ghastly.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Maybe Rick Astley was like a fucking punk or something,
and they were like, you know, what's gonna be funny
if you wear these Like I don't know, but I'm
gonna take what I'm given at face value and assume.
They sort of were like, oh, yeah, it's it's a
little funny. The song is good, and the song.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Is catchy, and he can sing, and it's a good
arrangement and a strong chorus, but also like they're kind
of playing something right on. It's like a kidding on
the square almost about having a dude with a red
bouffont dressed in like kind of like very like preppy
country school clothes of the time, singing this kind of
(13:44):
like dance R and B song. It's it's really like
this push and pull between the stiffness and like what
you're talking about with Madonna some of it, I mean,
at a certain point, particularly, I think part of what
you're talking about, whether that was her curatorial mind. I mean,
everything it's ever been said about Madonna by like like
with a critical lens that's not steeped in something that's
(14:06):
like misogynistic and like you know, patriarchal and stupid. But
anything that's been said about her critically, like in good faith,
is true to me, in good and bad directions. I
think she's like a prism and all things about her
are true. But what is kind of undeniable is that
she almost like Andy Warhol or something, had this like
(14:27):
curatorial eye for how to surround herself with for a
while until everyone runs out of that particular magic trick,
but for a while with like the exact zeitgeist, like
the best things in a variety of directions, and that
produces things like Vogue or like express Yourself or you know,
even into maybe even like ray of Light. Maybe that's
(14:49):
the last moment where she had it right where she
was like, oh, but if I pull a little from
like what this like Moby and Fat Boy Slim and
whatever stuff like that, like.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You'll get like a you know, like when you yeah,
but yeah, but like a prayer also is like I
think like a prayer is almost closer to you know,
your Tears for Fears or Depeche Mode.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Oh yeah, it is to this depeche Mode, Like a
prayer is like it's like her personal Jesus or something,
not just because of the religious but because the and honestly, dude,
I could talk about Leonard here, but because the sort
of intersection between the sacred and the profane, the sort
of sensual and the religious and the waste. Yeah, and
that the ecstatic space, all of that stuff shares and
(15:30):
seeing that like, yeah, it's like I found God on
the dance floor kind of a thing. And I feel
like that's all operating at these levels where at like
you said, at a level of like pure rapidity. If
you want it that way, you could put any of
those songs on and you're like, this is great. But
then also if you want to sit down and like
dig into any of those Madonna songs, like the snare
(15:50):
sound or the production choices or the cultural things being
pulled from, it might be fair to say that it
has more going for it than even the best thing
maybe like a Rick Astley might bring to the table,
But that's not necessarily that's like maybe Madonna's like the
gold standard for this kind of thing, at least Madonna
(16:11):
from a certain in a certain period of time. I
think the immaculate collection would be what collects.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
That, right, But I also think like we're being fair
because we're not like we're not taking you know, we're
not putting like the Beatles up to this right, like
we're right right, but it is hard. But I would
even give like get into the groove a song that's
not like is it like a prayer against this?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And I would find probably more depth.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Oh, but going back to this, yeah, but going back
to the song and like his vocal delivery, that's cool.
Like I actually think like if you did take away
the video and you know the memes for the last
thirty years, the vocals are great.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Oh, he's a great singer.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I had to.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Like, like when I was thinking about this and I
was like, oh, let me check it out. And I
started playing it and I like, this is it's, you know,
pulling back the curtain. I sometimes listened before WHOA. The
reason why I listened was because I was like, what
is his voice? I had to find a live video
and not like a live video from now. I tried
to like search, I searched for a live video from
(17:18):
then and it's it. I was like, can he does
he sound like this live? And I would say it's
ninety eight percent there. I feel like the recording they
just upped it a little deeper. Yeah, they like they
pitched it, but it was just like in a room contained.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah live.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
He sounded great, and I think it was at like
almost like a big concert because Phil Collins was playing
drums and he was crushing it.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I think he played at one of those things, like
I almost just said Right Aid New York, New Yorker
as a rest in peace. Right is disappearing, like there's
many missing teeth in the bay Ridge store Front community
with Right Aid leaving.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But yeah, yeah, no, I feel like they had Ralphs
on the on the West Coast at the Ralph said.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It was Ralph said he played at Ralph said no,
I think he might have literally played sorry, they're coming
to arrest me as I speed right now.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Oh that's good that Iron doesn't show up for some reason.
Not now, no noise cancel. I think it's damn.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
That's actually really good. Okay, well then forget that, but
don't cut it out. Leave it in because I want
the people to know like we really are out and
the well.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Pull all the curtains back.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, no curtains. I feel like he might have done
like yeah, live Aid or or or what was the
one no that was earlier than this, though the aid
it wasn't that, yeah, or I was thinking about the
thing Bob Geldoff did where like Queen played and everybody
it's like thought of as the greatest concert ever or whatever.
(18:46):
Oh yeah, but that was that was like eighty five
or something like that, eighty six. Anyway. I what's interesting
too is I feel like I saw him sing this
on television or something inside a UK TV show where
they might have done like a live Rick role. It
(19:06):
might have been like Graham Norton or one of those
kinds of shows. Yes, and he's saying this, and it was.
It was in the two thousands.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
You know. It was a Thanksgiving Macy's Thanksgiving grid That's
what it was.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I saw that in my research. I'm to keep
telling on my research.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You know, resident pastor emeritus, scholar emeritus. I do feel
like he sounded good at that too. And that was
like recently where I was like, oh, this dude's and
that led me into a sight of curiosity about like
the psychology, like where where is he at with becoming
(19:41):
like the Rick Roll guy? And if it's one of
those Taizon Day whatever things where you're like, well, at
least they're still talking about me, you know, although this
song is like hair Salon core, where like I feel
like even without the Rick roll, this would have never
gone away.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I agree fully, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
There's just like a collection of like fifty songs that
you'll probably hear in like yeah, like maybe like a
place where people get like manicures and pedicures or like
a certain kind of like barbershop or salon. They'll have
like one of those light FM stations on. And this
is actually one of the ones with some pep that
comes on between like for sure you know I will
always love you and like Luther V Andross like.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, Hall and Oates, Yes, yes, you know Betty Davis
eyes like like this this era has like all that
that would always be around.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
She's got Betty Davis eyes. That's amazing. I would love
to do that one. Sometimes there's a lot of great
chit cheese precocious.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I actually intentionally was like, I don't think we've covered
the eighties enough.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
No, you're probably right, Well, they know it's Christmas time
at all. Oh, the eighties is riddled with I do
think one thing I also want to say, what you
were talking about about the relative sterility of this, like
it's kind of I also thought it was kind of cool.
I was actually thinking like they trusted his vocal and
the chorus so much that they were just like, the
(21:11):
groove is not dynamic. I mean, this is a compliment.
It's dynamic in it by nature of its existence. It's
a groove, it moves, it's a good beat, but they
don't do anything to it. Like I kept forget I
forgot the whole structure of the song, given that the
chorus happens like eight times. I kept waiting for them
to have one where.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It was like a down chorus where all the drums
go away, or like it's just drums in his vocal
or something key change.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
They never do it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
They I was almost like sure there was going to
be a key change. I know, and I kind of
it's funny. It speaks to the subjectivity and case by
case basis of the chance. There are other instances where
I'd be like, oh, they should have I would have
liked it had they done so. In this one, I
was kind of like, it's kind of cool that the
bridge is just like the background singers throughout some.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Ooze, Like the bridge was like a glide. It was
just like my bridge.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I didn't you. I felt the same way.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm like, usually we're really hard on bridges, and this
was one that would be kind of in a category
that we would fucking rip to shred like shreds and
like just like piss all over and maybe holy shake
a crap on like we.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Always do, and that's what people want.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But I thought today today that I would get piss
on a bridge.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Usually people piss off a bridge. We piss on given
a jetthing.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know. When we were kids, one time my brother said,
I was like, what, like my brother Dan shout out,
an NBA journalist for Yahoo Sports.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I put across from him, Jay Case.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
He did play lacrosse.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
The two things that people know about him.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
He might have been in like second me. I might
have been in second. And he was like, we were
playing Pitfall on on Atari seventy eight hundred and Pitfall.
We were just me and him, and we're gonna go
do something with my dad. And he went my brother
went pitfall, shit fall, And then he also said Huckleberry
thick fuck. Then I turned and I as big brother, shit,
(23:19):
I'm so sorry. You were a younger brother. I walked
downstairs and I just to do whatever with my dad
and I was like, dad, Daniel said, Huckleberry fick like
I just told him immediately, and my brother was like,
what the fuck, dude, And my dad didn't like it.
So I also want to use this as a Rick
Roll opportunity to apologize to my brother for I'll piss
(23:40):
on the page, but I'll never piss on you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
This is why I started this podcast for this moment.
We can end it right now, Rick Rolled. I don't
let a joke go. I have to like punch it with.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I feel like yeah, but I mean I'm I Also
there's I get a kick out of some of the lyrics.
Did he write the lyrics?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Oh that I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I love on the streaming platform of my choice. At
the end of the lyrics, that always says report a
concern and there's a red button. I always wonder if
I'm ever going to do it, what would my concern be?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Please do it?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But I want to count he does do one, two, three, four, five, six,
The course happens six times, yep, should yes, and that
pre course they get right to it. It's really good.
But I want to know what he says, were no
(24:39):
strangers to love.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You know the rules, so do I, which comes back later.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, Oh, I think it's cool. Also the other second verse,
the second verse is great, he brings back as the
third verse.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Second verse he brings back because the third verse.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
It's kind of cool. It's like, I mean, it's unfortunate Marris.
He passed away in a bus accident after the Smiths
broke up in nineteen eighty seven. That's what I like
to pretend. But he did a lot of that in
the Smiths where he brought He would repeat verses in
different places and it would change the way the verse felt.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, panic almost has like some of that or I forget. Yeah,
there's some songs that it does feel so.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Oh he does it a lot. Yeah, Like I'm thinking
right now, there's that one like does the body rull
the mind or does the mind rule the body?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
He brings that back three different times in that song,
and it's not the chorus. Yes, but when it happens
you're like when you, it's the first time I ever
thought of when you, or heard and prompted the thought
that if you recontextualize the same lyric between different lyrics
and a different part in the song. It changes the
(25:51):
way that lyric feels, which then makes lyrics feel the
way like a chord choice can or a dynamic choice can.
And that's really that's kind of cool because I don't
think most people think that way when they're I don't
think most people use lyrics that way.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Saying this is that, but I do like that they're
just like, second verse was cool, let's bring it back
after the bridge.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It almost feels like, since Morrissey in that situation, maybe
here too, is just the singer and not a guitar player, right,
that he just did it or just like, you know,
And then they were like, oh, I love that. Did
you know that I was in the chorus or did
you know I was in the verse, you know? And
he's just like, I just thought it sounded good, right,
And he probably was.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Like it, of course I knew what I was. Don't
ever ask me a question like that again.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Joe and the drummer and the drummer on the bassis
don't get residuals.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yes, exactly, exactly exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, he said that too, which is weird. The practice
in the.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Song and the drama and the dace just will not
be getting residuals. Oh no, Like wait, what did you
just say?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Me and Mar and that is the original name of
the band. Yeah, So what I love in this verse is.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know it's it's what I like first is you
know you know the rules, and so do I write,
that's a great line. And then later he says, we
know the game and we're going to play it. Yes,
you know what I mean, Like we both know how
like sort of did the dating game and just like
the game that like kid, like you know, teenagers go
(27:42):
through of like I don't like me too much or
I'll lose interest, but you know if you don't like
me enough, and like that's the game. And we don't
still play it totally every day, you know, honestly, honestly,
what's cool about you is you play mad psychodramatic games
with your dude, and like, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
She doesn't even know on edge. She's always on the
edge of the bridge and I'm pinin you're me and
Mar and.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
She's the basis of the drummer six feet from the
bridge and on bed. No, I also think look as
you said, what a games.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Have, uhh uh, sportscasters rules and so in the top
of you know, last top top line of the first verse,
second line, you know the rules, and so do I
last line of the second and third verse.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We know the game and we're gonna play it. He's
duck to something. Yep, you know it's not nonsense. And
I mean also I do think he's like he's letting
you know exactly what a full commitment from Rick Astley is.
He's never never gonna give you up, let you down,
run around desert, you make you cry. I'm sure at
(29:01):
some point, if this is a full commitment, they'll be
together thirty forty fifty sixty years unless there's some terrible
accident or something. He's probably there's gonna be some tears.
And also he's probably gonna have to say goodbye, like,
oh goodbye, I gotta go to work or go on tour.
I gotta go on tour. Maybe she'll go with him
on tour. He she they I don't know anything about
her Chelsley's preferences. I know nothing about it.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, and he's gonna tell a lie.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, no doubt, dude, definitely that's all.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Lie even something like which is just like is your
stomach okay, yeah, it's fine, and he got poomed yeoh.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And also because he's British too, so he's like a
stiff upper lip and all.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That in it.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I think I'm fine. I see.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
You know, Rick Castley, but honestly stiff. Yeah it is
what I know how you said, it is exactly how that.
That's what's so funny. That's I think we haven't covered
that enough.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
He is like a really like he's like like a
like a tough like he's like a like a like
a football hooligangain soccer hoodlum football hooligan.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I just want to tell you how I'm faring.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
They'll make you understand, missy.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
But then he sings and.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's like you know, weirdo straight just to love right, And.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Then he's like I heard there was a secret col
Did you ever hear him do that one?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I did hear that by Pavement?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Sorry? Rick?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Sorry?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Rick? I am Rick rolling everybody on this podcast at
all times, and I just send you to one of
four places. That's what my ric roll. Yes, everything starts
with whatever song we're talking about. And by the end
you could feed me Rent Rick Astley one eight seven, seven,
cars for kids, creeds, creed, anything you want. And where
(30:50):
do we come out? We come out it's it's a utero.
It's either roar, it's me on the little fucking bench
and tape world. Listen to Crooked Rain. That's right, it's
elc write about God and sex, the whole thing. All right,
But back to the sorry, back to the chance at hand.
So this was four years before.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Never so I have a So the other thing that
I I read is that when when rick Roll came out,
he was confused by it, but then he was like
totally like open to it. He thought it was you
have to roll around in this, yes, okay, so he
thought it was really funny. Confusion makes sense by the
way he's like what and then people think a few
(31:31):
years later he was like kind of done with it,
Like his his reps were like he no longer wants
to entertain like interview questions about rick Roll. Sure, he
feels like he's answered everything. But when he tours, which
he continued to do in fact, like it kind of
coincided like he had taken a ten year break and
then started picking up as he was touring, so what
it really helped him, But he never wanted to like
(31:52):
redo this song or remix it.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
He did in case you did the work for this
this come on, Come on.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He like he liked how the song was and was like,
that's why people like it, and if I'm trying to
capitalize on it, it might just ruin the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And he understood that and was like, but.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So he has to tour, and he has to do
probably has more than even like you know, Bruce Springsteen
having to do Born to Run, right, He's got to
do this.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
You can't be very ghastly and not play those two songs.
I guarantee you those are in every set list he
ever puts together.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Do you have songs that you feel that you have
to do?
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I mean, the great thing about being nowhere near as
commercially successful as any of the people we would ever
do on this show, including whoever wrote one eight seven
seven Cars for Kids?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But is.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Everyone who has an audience, even a niche public facing person,
you it is probable, if you're fortunate enough to have that,
that there are a handful of songs that your audience
more of your audience likes than your other songs, and
(33:04):
I do. I just think that's mandatory, and I have
like I would say I have like.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
There's definitely I would say four off the top of
my head that I five probably that I think are like.
I would do well to include three of them whenever
I play a show, and you.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Can move them around a little bit, just as you
get tired of them.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
And then there's about ten. And the truth is maybe
because I've never been in a position where it was like,
you have to play that song every night, or yes,
or like you have to play that song for a
year on morning and late night television and a bunch
of radio stations, like I've done this much of that
(33:45):
over the course of my career, but it's never been
like you have to be playing that one song for
a year every time you go on any of those
things everywhere in the world. I think, if you're I
think it's heavy. I think it's heaviest if you maybe
are someone then this might be a pretentious thing to say,
and it might be a pretentious thing to even self consider,
(34:05):
but I think it's why it weighs more on people
who might like have been more on the like, you know,
I think there's a reason why that meeting people is easy.
Documentary about Radiohead looks like they were fucking miserable the
entire time they were having like the biggest moment of
their careers, because they see themselves as artists in the
entertainment industry. Now, whether they are or aren't is a
(34:27):
much more interesting philosophical debate, Like if there's any difference
at all between Radiohead and Britney Spears is for another time.
But I think people like that are like I don't
want to.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Fucking play Paranoid Android again on you know, Like I
definitely we're not going to mention any names, but there's
people I talk about a lot on this podcast that
I know were well documented about how they felt about
having to play there like one song over and over again. No.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
But also it's like, because that never happened to me,
even the four or five that are that way for me,
relatively speaking, I'm still like pretty happy to play I
am most of the time.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Do you know what your least played songs ever are?
I could I could hazard a guess. Uh, maybe a
fun one would be to give maybe something fun we
could do sometime would be to just savage me and
for another artist and to give my ship a chance.
Whether most or least, I think it's probably I do
(35:21):
have a handful of like songs from proper records, like
B sides or whatever sounds for proper records, and you're like, oh,
I haven't played this in a decade, or.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I would imagine that there's yeah, I could think of you.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
You're good for your You're good for your fan base
because you you will be like, oh, this is the
tenure anniversary of this album.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I'm going to play this album.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Like. I think that's a good quality you have, is like,
because I think I like when artists do that because
at different times people enter their your artistry for certain records,
and it's nice.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
To hear the whole thing. And I think I think
that's good to do that.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, thank you, Casey. I mean I think that it's
cool that anyone pays attention to it at all. Rick Roll,
Actually that wasn't a sympathetic thing.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Play I play the rick Roll at post at the
end of the episode.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
H I do want the second right at the end
there you should ask we should we can tell them.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
But I can't where we're still going I thought it
was gonna it's gonna end.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Twenty seconds, So listen in the last twenty seconds if
you're listening to this and you and you have the
opportunity to edit it. After Casey said that we should
play the funny song right there, Okay, all right, case
go get your child.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Love you guys, love everybody body. Just give it a
sh
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come morning, give it a chance. Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Give it a chi Do you want to
give it a chance, Give it a chance, give it
a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Just give it a chance. Welcome you got mail files done?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Best best Dave Chappelle vehicle. Probably you've got mail? Oh
do you know that?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah? I remember that.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I was talking to someone recently about that. He's in
the direct support to T Hanks. That isn't that amazing?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
He did a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
He was in a bunch of weird movies like Nattie
Professor R.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I forgot he was in that. I mean half baked
of course, to a certain person, I'm a classy.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So welcome to Chappelle at a chance. We're breaking down
all the little movies Dave Chappelle was in before he
did all those stand up stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Listen's it's a hot property these days. I don't know
if we want to touch the third rail that is
Dave in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's very true, but that is fun that I just
pranked everyone by saying that the name was a different podcast, because.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That has to do with Today's artiste.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh no, okay, it's a prank artist.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, no, I wouldn't. This is not a novelty Are
we doing a Borat song? Yeah, that's I think the
only Borat song is throw the Jew down the Well
from his movie.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Honestly, that is that. The fact that he didn't die
is a minor miracle.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I think that it was like the crowd loved it,
which is also not cool.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, no, it's a lot there, it's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, but yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
All right. So it's a prank thing.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So is it?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Ah? Is this like Nathan Fielder stuff? We're gonna do
a Nathan Fielder thing. I'm doing a full Nathan episode. No,
this is a so this is it's not like a
prank artist. It's not a novelty artist. Okay, but I do.
I think you'll get it. Okay, this is the part
two people to things make No, that's Casey, that's seeing
(02:05):
Sea Music Factory. That's not that's too And what makes
you think that I don't know something about things prank
made me think of, like things that make you go hmm.
But that's more like coincidence than a prank. Okay, And
April Fools. Even April were doing Manchester Orchestra. They have
a song called.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
April the Oh my god, imagine we just put your
friends on blast.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
That would be yeah, that would be your relationship ending stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Okay, one more incredible people and we're gonna talk about
poopy about it. Weird al No, I don't think there
is a weird al song that I could put to this.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Not give a chance to Oh, okay, god, I'm in
the woods God. That is a concept by John Lennon.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Okay, God, was that we're doing?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Now?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
What we're doing? Because I think that song is too good.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a good song. I sang that song with her
once with a group of people on stage in the
City Winery, and it was very odd. It was in
the post hurricane son. That's that's the story for another time. Yeah,
or maybe it was a face nice all right, sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Let me see if I can let me clear my throat.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Is it that?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh? That would be good?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
But no, that's like a good that's a great song,
I know, So hold on, let me let me see
if I could I have Oh, actually maybe I should.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Maybe I should show you our our sponsor.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Do you guys, we do. I do need to know
who our sponsor for today is. It's just good for
me to know that anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, Art thou board snap into a slim gym. Here
you go, here's our here's our sponsor, Kevin. Okay, double
clicked enter Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Oh my god, Wow, Casey stepping into the fourth dimension here.
This is like a whole new thing for us.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
There is.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
My daughter knows what a Rick roll is and she's
nine years old and it's twenty twenty five. Wow. You know,
I don't know the last time I've actually listened, I
wasn't going to get that, by the way, I could
have guessed all day and I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But it's a prank.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It's a prank. It's become prank, It's become maybe is
that a vitology? What does that hat? Can you look down?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Oh it's I.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Thought it was vitology by Pearl Jam.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah that's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Grip, Yeah, that would be cool. All right, So we're
doing Rick Astley never going to give you up, which
I don't even know if I've heard in full right.
Since I was a child.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
This meme has been going since like the early two
thousands and it's really interesting because a banger, isn't it.
Let's see, see that's what's interesting about it, right, Like,
so I did some I did some research on it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and before.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We let you are the research arm of the give
it a chance group, I would say, yeah, yeah, I
like a doctorate in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
In musicology and a doctor intology.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You owe me a.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Kevin Kevin Kevin, so you could talk.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh, thank god, it's really interesting pot actually that maybe
people would have preferred that.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, they don't like I hear you out there.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
You fucking haters, sorry Leonard Cohen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So uh or Rick rolling them by not even talking
about the song. But before we play it, I just
want to say that, So this was this started in
like the early two thousands, Okay, one of the they
don't really know why this song was picked there was
it Just like there's a person who reportedly did it
to a radio station and it happened again at some
other point.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh that's how it started.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's there's a few things that like people caught on
to to make it bigger and bigger and bigger, with
like various websites like four chan and even YouTube was
but like you know, early obviously for like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And switching links you think you're yay.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's how I first got it for sure.
Was like someone sending me a YouTube link to like, oh,
check out this band, we'd like to open your show
or something, and then you click on it and it
was that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And the reason why I kind of chose this is
because it had this especially I think when it started
in the two thousands, like it. It was like something
about the song is corny, right and like it and
just like out of its really it's like the whole
video it's jarring. In the two thousands, the way things
looked like this video, the way it opens was like jarring.
(06:38):
And it's also he's got this deep voice for such
a young lad.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yo. I think the rap I've heard, and I'm only
saying this because I have heard. I can't forget what
it was, but I'm just gonna go on the record.
I think the thing with Rick Astley at the time
in nineteen eighty seven, something like that six seven, Yeah,
I think so he was a redheaded white score where
dude that black people thought was black when they first
(07:04):
heard the singing because he has this like really profound
bass kind of voice R and B voice, and he's
singing that style. And I think that's like the joke
about him.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I think the thing that ended up maybe becoming like
quote Corny is yes, the.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Aesthetics, the visual, but also just his aesthetics and visual
like that just he's like he like looks, he's just
like a kind of he was like howdy duty or
something like that. Yeah, yeah, which I know because I
definitely had times in my life have looked like how
do you do?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
There's a couple of notable people like that that have
that same phenomenon. Another big one is is Bobby Caldwell
which is which is what you Won't Do Do for Love?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, that song is like a nice That's a big
one that like that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
When people found out that he was white, people were like,
well really yeah, yeah I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
And of course people thought when teen Spirit came out
of was like, oh is he black?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And yeah, Ivana, there you go, and how you're going
to drop it today? That's how you're gonna drop them
in Well then like.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Also Leonard Cohen because a really deep voice like a
and then honestly with Elliott like it was more.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Like the new one and when Pavement a new one.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Anyway, let's jump into this song and then we'll and
then we'll uh, we'll discuss.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Talk about Pavement.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
That's right, Wow overall overall thoughts hit me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I mean, that's a really good song.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I agree, I can to give this a chance.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
No, it's not. And I think it's funny because this
is a phenomenon that I think I might be like
a little under uh, like I know know the song
no him? Was he like a one hit wonder? Or
were there are other hits by him? This was about
the one right more or less? I think so because
(09:04):
I've been aware of this song in the ether, like
since I've been aware of pop music from my like
I would have been eight when this came out. I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh he's got together forever.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Oh that's also him. Yeah that's a big hit. Yeah,
I remember correctly those are two because that's what I said.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think I said this a few times ago. You
always get to you always get the chance for the
for the dub.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And yes, they give you a chance.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Even where I said Fred, right, don't right talk just
kids with your own woods and sounds.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
And that it's Rick Astley doing it. I know I did.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I also there was a song called cry for Help.
I don't know it take Me to you, Oh, take
me to your Heart?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Is that him?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Take Me to your Heart?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Is that not that song?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think you were just singing listen to your hot.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yes, that's what I was. That's what I was doing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
That that's rock Sette. They had like Rosette had listen
to your Heart, right, I must have been in love
but all great song, that's the one. And they also
had like come on join the joy, right. They may
have had three or four hits.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Wow that Yeah, you're the photology major.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Turns out that I'm the one who's listening to a corduroy.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So I think the only heads out there, I think
the only anti I Chancy I could sort of give
this Let's start is that it's not my exact lens, right,
Like I think this this song. I think this song,
but but if you changed a few things, I think
it is my lens because like they're, like you mentioned
(10:41):
with some of those other prescriptions, slightly off right. There
is twenty forty and you need twenty thirty five honestly,
Like I love the Immaculate Collection by Madonna. I put
it on all the time. I love the way it
sounds right like, and I don't think that's that far
from this, and I don't know if it's like a
female vocalist maybe.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Doing this song, huge difference.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The only thing that Rick, for me lacks a little
bit is identity. It is sort of a novelty that
he's got this deep voice and he's dressed, at least
in this video he is dressed like the whitest man
on earth. It's really amazing, like they really like it's club.
It's like to a t from that time and so funny,
(11:21):
so so like. But if that's what he's showing us,
that's the identity I'm getting, which is like, obviously it's
so intertwined with music, is the idea, right, So so
I think that's the lens that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
But even sonically there's.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's so polished, Like there's something about the Immaculate Collection
that like left grit on it and like the Groove
Get Into the Groove has that. But even just the
drums on songs like material Girl, like that drummer just
went for it. It's so like ahead of the beat,
and and this is feels a little bit more stock
(11:55):
in some of the or a little uh, you know,
what's that?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
What's that word for it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Sterile in some manicure very Yeah, yeah, And sometimes I
love that and sometimes I want I think, like, especially
with pop music, I like it a little bit of apid, right,
like a touch of appid. Yeah, yeah, the sterileness is
kind of fun. But that being said, that's like the
that's a reach for the anti chance.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, that's pretty good if that's like your primary. Yeah,
we're definitely not talking about something that's like horrifically offensive
on a variety of levels or whatever. It to some sensibility, right,
(12:40):
you know, I think I think I think the thing
you're you're you're touching on, it's it's it is like
a rich subject. I feel like about his aesthetic and
the kind of I feel like I wasn't there, but
I feel like there's some percentage of what went on
with an artist like Workhastley, where even in like the
genesis the marketing phase, right as they're they knew like
(13:02):
all right, we've got this, like maybe who knows we'd
have to do a dive on Rick Ghastly.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Maybe Rick Astley was like a fucking punk or something,
and they were like, you know, what's gonna be funny
if you wear these Like I don't know, but I'm
gonna take what I'm given at face value and assume.
They sort of were like, oh, yeah, it's it's a
little funny. The song is good, and the song.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Is catchy, and he can sing, and it's a good
arrangement and a strong chorus, but also like they're kind
of playing something right on. It's like a kidding on
the square almost about having a dude with a red
bouffont dressed in like kind of like very like preppy
country school clothes of the time, singing this kind of
(13:44):
like dance R and B song. It's it's really like
this push and pull between the stiffness and like what
you're talking about with Madonna some of it, I mean,
at a certain point, particularly, I think part of what
you're talking about, whether that was her curatorial mind. I mean,
everything it's ever been said about Madonna by like like
with a critical lens that's not steeped in something that's
(14:06):
like misogynistic and like you know, patriarchal and stupid. But
anything that's been said about her critically, like in good faith,
is true to me, in good and bad directions. I
think she's like a prism and all things about her
are true. But what is kind of undeniable is that
she almost like Andy Warhol or something, had this like
(14:27):
curatorial eye for how to surround herself with for a
while until everyone runs out of that particular magic trick,
but for a while with like the exact zeitgeist, like
the best things in a variety of directions, and that
produces things like Vogue or like express Yourself or you know,
even into maybe even like ray of Light. Maybe that's
(14:49):
the last moment where she had it right where she
was like, oh, but if I pull a little from
like what this like Moby and Fat Boy Slim and
whatever stuff like that, like.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
You'll get like a you know, like when you yeah,
but yeah, but like a prayer also is like I
think like a prayer is almost closer to you know,
your Tears for Fears or Depeche Mode.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Oh yeah, it is to this depeche Mode, Like a
prayer is like it's like her personal Jesus or something,
not just because of the religious but because the and honestly, dude,
I could talk about Leonard here, but because the sort
of intersection between the sacred and the profane, the sort
of sensual and the religious and the waste. Yeah, and
that the ecstatic space, all of that stuff shares and
(15:30):
seeing that like, yeah, it's like I found God on
the dance floor kind of a thing. And I feel
like that's all operating at these levels where at like
you said, at a level of like pure rapidity. If
you want it that way, you could put any of
those songs on and you're like, this is great. But
then also if you want to sit down and like
dig into any of those Madonna songs, like the snare
(15:50):
sound or the production choices or the cultural things being
pulled from, it might be fair to say that it
has more going for it than even the best thing
maybe like a Rick Astley might bring to the table,
But that's not necessarily that's like maybe Madonna's like the
gold standard for this kind of thing, at least Madonna
(16:11):
from a certain in a certain period of time. I
think the immaculate collection would be what collects.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
That, right, But I also think like we're being fair
because we're not like we're not taking you know, we're
not putting like the Beatles up to this right, like
we're right right, but it is hard. But I would
even give like get into the groove a song that's
not like is it like a prayer against this?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
And I would find probably more depth.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Oh, but going back to this, yeah, but going back
to the song and like his vocal delivery, that's cool.
Like I actually think like if you did take away
the video and you know the memes for the last
thirty years, the vocals are great.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Oh, he's a great singer.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I had to.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Like, like when I was thinking about this and I
was like, oh, let me check it out. And I
started playing it and I like, this is it's, you know,
pulling back the curtain. I sometimes listened before WHOA. The
reason why I listened was because I was like, what
is his voice? I had to find a live video
and not like a live video from now. I tried
to like search, I searched for a live video from
(17:18):
then and it's it. I was like, can he does
he sound like this live? And I would say it's
ninety eight percent there. I feel like the recording they
just upped it a little deeper. Yeah, they like they
pitched it, but it was just like in a room contained.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, yeah live.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
He sounded great, and I think it was at like
almost like a big concert because Phil Collins was playing
drums and he was crushing it.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I think he played at one of those things, like
I almost just said Right Aid New York, New Yorker
as a rest in peace. Right is disappearing, like there's
many missing teeth in the bay Ridge store Front community
with Right Aid leaving.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But yeah, yeah, no, I feel like they had Ralphs
on the on the West Coast at the Ralph said.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It was Ralph said he played at Ralph said no,
I think he might have literally played sorry, they're coming
to arrest me as I speed right now.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Oh that's good that Iron doesn't show up for some reason.
Not now, no noise cancel. I think it's damn.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
That's actually really good. Okay, well then forget that, but
don't cut it out. Leave it in because I want
the people to know like we really are out and
the well.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Pull all the curtains back.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Yeah, no curtains. I feel like he might have done
like yeah, live Aid or or or what was the
one no that was earlier than this, though the aid
it wasn't that, yeah, or I was thinking about the
thing Bob Geldoff did where like Queen played and everybody
it's like thought of as the greatest concert ever or whatever.
(18:46):
Oh yeah, but that was that was like eighty five
or something like that, eighty six. Anyway. I what's interesting
too is I feel like I saw him sing this
on television or something inside a UK TV show where
they might have done like a live Rick role. It
(19:06):
might have been like Graham Norton or one of those
kinds of shows. Yes, and he's saying this, and it was.
It was in the two thousands.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
You know. It was a Thanksgiving Macy's Thanksgiving grid That's
what it was.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, I saw that in my research. I'm to keep
telling on my research.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
You know, resident pastor emeritus, scholar emeritus. I do feel
like he sounded good at that too. And that was
like recently where I was like, oh, this dude's and
that led me into a sight of curiosity about like
the psychology, like where where is he at with becoming
(19:41):
like the Rick Roll guy? And if it's one of
those Taizon Day whatever things where you're like, well, at
least they're still talking about me, you know, although this
song is like hair Salon core, where like I feel
like even without the Rick roll, this would have never
gone away.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, I agree fully, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
There's just like a collection of like fifty songs that
you'll probably hear in like yeah, like maybe like a
place where people get like manicures and pedicures or like
a certain kind of like barbershop or salon. They'll have
like one of those light FM stations on. And this
is actually one of the ones with some pep that
comes on between like for sure you know I will
always love you and like Luther V Andross like.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, Hall and Oates, Yes, yes, you know Betty Davis
eyes like like this this era has like all that
that would always be around.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
She's got Betty Davis eyes. That's amazing. I would love
to do that one. Sometimes there's a lot of great
chit cheese precocious.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I actually intentionally was like, I don't think we've covered
the eighties enough.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
No, you're probably right, Well, they know it's Christmas time
at all. Oh, the eighties is riddled with I do
think one thing I also want to say, what you
were talking about about the relative sterility of this, like
it's kind of I also thought it was kind of cool.
I was actually thinking like they trusted his vocal and
the chorus so much that they were just like, the
(21:11):
groove is not dynamic. I mean, this is a compliment.
It's dynamic in it by nature of its existence. It's
a groove, it moves, it's a good beat, but they
don't do anything to it. Like I kept forget I
forgot the whole structure of the song, given that the
chorus happens like eight times. I kept waiting for them
to have one where.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
It was like a down chorus where all the drums
go away, or like it's just drums in his vocal
or something key change.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
They never do it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
They I was almost like sure there was going to
be a key change. I know, and I kind of
it's funny. It speaks to the subjectivity and case by
case basis of the chance. There are other instances where
I'd be like, oh, they should have I would have
liked it had they done so. In this one, I
was kind of like, it's kind of cool that the
bridge is just like the background singers throughout some.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Ooze, Like the bridge was like a glide. It was
just like my bridge.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I didn't you. I felt the same way.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm like, usually we're really hard on bridges, and this
was one that would be kind of in a category
that we would fucking rip to shred like shreds and
like just like piss all over and maybe holy shake
a crap on like we.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Always do, and that's what people want.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
But I thought today today that I would get piss
on a bridge.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Usually people piss off a bridge. We piss on given
a jetthing.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know. When we were kids, one time my brother said,
I was like, what, like my brother Dan shout out,
an NBA journalist for Yahoo Sports.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I put across from him, Jay Case.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
He did play lacrosse.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
The two things that people know about him.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
He might have been in like second me. I might
have been in second. And he was like, we were
playing Pitfall on on Atari seventy eight hundred and Pitfall.
We were just me and him, and we're gonna go
do something with my dad. And he went my brother
went pitfall, shit fall, And then he also said Huckleberry
thick fuck. Then I turned and I as big brother, shit,
(23:19):
I'm so sorry. You were a younger brother. I walked
downstairs and I just to do whatever with my dad
and I was like, dad, Daniel said, Huckleberry fick like
I just told him immediately, and my brother was like,
what the fuck, dude, And my dad didn't like it.
So I also want to use this as a Rick
Roll opportunity to apologize to my brother for I'll piss
(23:40):
on the page, but I'll never piss on you.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
This is why I started this podcast for this moment.
We can end it right now, Rick Rolled. I don't
let a joke go. I have to like punch it with.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I feel like yeah, but I mean I'm I Also
there's I get a kick out of some of the lyrics.
Did he write the lyrics?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Oh that I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I love on the streaming platform of my choice. At
the end of the lyrics, that always says report a
concern and there's a red button. I always wonder if
I'm ever going to do it, what would my concern be?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Please do it?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But I want to count he does do one, two, three, four, five, six,
The course happens six times, yep, should yes, and that
pre course they get right to it. It's really good.
But I want to know what he says, were no
(24:39):
strangers to love.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You know the rules, so do I, which comes back later.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, Oh, I think it's cool. Also the other second verse,
the second verse is great, he brings back as the
third verse.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Second verse he brings back because the third verse.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
It's kind of cool. It's like, I mean, it's unfortunate Marris.
He passed away in a bus accident after the Smiths
broke up in nineteen eighty seven. That's what I like
to pretend. But he did a lot of that in
the Smiths where he brought He would repeat verses in
different places and it would change the way the verse felt.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, panic almost has like some of that or I forget. Yeah,
there's some songs that it does feel so.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Oh he does it a lot. Yeah, Like I'm thinking
right now, there's that one like does the body rull
the mind or does the mind rule the body?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
He brings that back three different times in that song,
and it's not the chorus. Yes, but when it happens
you're like when you, it's the first time I ever
thought of when you, or heard and prompted the thought
that if you recontextualize the same lyric between different lyrics
and a different part in the song. It changes the
(25:51):
way that lyric feels, which then makes lyrics feel the
way like a chord choice can or a dynamic choice can.
And that's really that's kind of cool because I don't
think most people think that way when they're I don't
think most people use lyrics that way.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Saying this is that, but I do like that they're
just like, second verse was cool, let's bring it back
after the bridge.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It almost feels like, since Morrissey in that situation, maybe
here too, is just the singer and not a guitar player, right,
that he just did it or just like, you know,
And then they were like, oh, I love that. Did
you know that I was in the chorus or did
you know I was in the verse, you know? And
he's just like, I just thought it sounded good, right,
And he probably was.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Like it, of course I knew what I was. Don't
ever ask me a question like that again.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Joe and the drummer and the drummer on the bassis
don't get residuals.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yes, exactly, exactly exactly, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, he said that too, which is weird. The practice
in the.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Song and the drama and the dace just will not
be getting residuals. Oh no, Like wait, what did you
just say?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Me and Mar and that is the original name of
the band. Yeah, So what I love in this verse is.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know it's it's what I like first is you
know you know the rules, and so do I write,
that's a great line. And then later he says, we
know the game and we're going to play it. Yes,
you know what I mean, Like we both know how
like sort of did the dating game and just like
the game that like kid, like you know, teenagers go
(27:42):
through of like I don't like me too much or
I'll lose interest, but you know if you don't like
me enough, and like that's the game. And we don't
still play it totally every day, you know, honestly, honestly,
what's cool about you is you play mad psychodramatic games
with your dude, and like, yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
She doesn't even know on edge. She's always on the
edge of the bridge and I'm pinin you're me and
Mar and.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
She's the basis of the drummer six feet from the
bridge and on bed. No, I also think look as
you said, what a games.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Have, uhh uh, sportscasters rules and so in the top
of you know, last top top line of the first verse,
second line, you know the rules, and so do I
last line of the second and third verse.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We know the game and we're gonna play it. He's
duck to something. Yep, you know it's not nonsense. And
I mean also I do think he's like he's letting
you know exactly what a full commitment from Rick Astley is.
He's never never gonna give you up, let you down,
run around desert, you make you cry. I'm sure at
(29:01):
some point, if this is a full commitment, they'll be
together thirty forty fifty sixty years unless there's some terrible
accident or something. He's probably there's gonna be some tears.
And also he's probably gonna have to say goodbye, like,
oh goodbye, I gotta go to work or go on tour.
I gotta go on tour. Maybe she'll go with him
on tour. He she they I don't know anything about
her Chelsley's preferences. I know nothing about it.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, and he's gonna tell a lie.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, no doubt, dude, definitely that's all.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Lie even something like which is just like is your
stomach okay, yeah, it's fine, and he got poomed yeoh.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And also because he's British too, so he's like a
stiff upper lip and all.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That in it.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I think I'm fine. I see.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
You know, Rick Castley, but honestly stiff. Yeah it is
what I know how you said, it is exactly how that.
That's what's so funny. That's I think we haven't covered
that enough.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
He is like a really like he's like like a
like a tough like he's like a like a like
a football hooligangain soccer hoodlum football hooligan.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
I just want to tell you how I'm faring.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
They'll make you understand, missy.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
But then he sings and.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's like you know, weirdo straight just to love right, And.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Then he's like I heard there was a secret col
Did you ever hear him do that one?
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I did hear that by Pavement?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Sorry? Rick?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Sorry?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Rick? I am Rick rolling everybody on this podcast at
all times, and I just send you to one of
four places. That's what my ric roll. Yes, everything starts
with whatever song we're talking about. And by the end
you could feed me Rent Rick Astley one eight seven, seven,
cars for kids, creeds, creed, anything you want. And where
(30:50):
do we come out? We come out it's it's a utero.
It's either roar, it's me on the little fucking bench
and tape world. Listen to Crooked Rain. That's right, it's
elc write about God and sex, the whole thing. All right,
But back to the sorry, back to the chance at hand.
So this was four years before.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Never so I have a So the other thing that
I I read is that when when rick Roll came out,
he was confused by it, but then he was like
totally like open to it. He thought it was you
have to roll around in this, yes, okay, so he
thought it was really funny. Confusion makes sense by the
way he's like what and then people think a few
(31:31):
years later he was like kind of done with it,
Like his his reps were like he no longer wants
to entertain like interview questions about rick Roll. Sure, he
feels like he's answered everything. But when he tours, which
he continued to do in fact, like it kind of
coincided like he had taken a ten year break and
then started picking up as he was touring, so what
it really helped him, But he never wanted to like
(31:52):
redo this song or remix it.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
He did in case you did the work for this
this come on, Come on.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He like he liked how the song was and was like,
that's why people like it, and if I'm trying to
capitalize on it, it might just ruin the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And he understood that and was like, but.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
So he has to tour, and he has to do
probably has more than even like you know, Bruce Springsteen
having to do Born to Run, right, He's got to
do this.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
You can't be very ghastly and not play those two songs.
I guarantee you those are in every set list he
ever puts together.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Do you have songs that you feel that you have
to do?
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I mean, the great thing about being nowhere near as
commercially successful as any of the people we would ever
do on this show, including whoever wrote one eight seven
seven Cars for Kids?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But is.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Everyone who has an audience, even a niche public facing person,
you it is probable, if you're fortunate enough to have that,
that there are a handful of songs that your audience
more of your audience likes than your other songs, and
(33:04):
I do. I just think that's mandatory, and I have
like I would say I have like.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
There's definitely I would say four off the top of
my head that I five probably that I think are like.
I would do well to include three of them whenever
I play a show, and you.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Can move them around a little bit, just as you
get tired of them.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
And then there's about ten. And the truth is maybe
because I've never been in a position where it was like,
you have to play that song every night, or yes,
or like you have to play that song for a
year on morning and late night television and a bunch
of radio stations, like I've done this much of that
(33:45):
over the course of my career, but it's never been
like you have to be playing that one song for
a year every time you go on any of those
things everywhere in the world. I think, if you're I
think it's heavy. I think it's heaviest if you maybe
are someone then this might be a pretentious thing to say,
and it might be a pretentious thing to even self consider,
(34:05):
but I think it's why it weighs more on people
who might like have been more on the like, you know,
I think there's a reason why that meeting people is easy.
Documentary about Radiohead looks like they were fucking miserable the
entire time they were having like the biggest moment of
their careers, because they see themselves as artists in the
entertainment industry. Now, whether they are or aren't is a
(34:27):
much more interesting philosophical debate, Like if there's any difference
at all between Radiohead and Britney Spears is for another time.
But I think people like that are like I don't
want to.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Fucking play Paranoid Android again on you know, Like I
definitely we're not going to mention any names, but there's
people I talk about a lot on this podcast that
I know were well documented about how they felt about
having to play there like one song over and over again. No.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
But also it's like, because that never happened to me,
even the four or five that are that way for me,
relatively speaking, I'm still like pretty happy to play I
am most of the time.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Do you know what your least played songs ever are?
I could I could hazard a guess. Uh, maybe a
fun one would be to give maybe something fun we
could do sometime would be to just savage me and
for another artist and to give my ship a chance.
Whether most or least, I think it's probably I do
(35:21):
have a handful of like songs from proper records, like
B sides or whatever sounds for proper records, and you're like, oh,
I haven't played this in a decade, or.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I would imagine that there's yeah, I could think of you.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
You're good for your You're good for your fan base
because you you will be like, oh, this is the
tenure anniversary of this album.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I'm going to play this album.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Like. I think that's a good quality you have, is like,
because I think I like when artists do that because
at different times people enter their your artistry for certain records,
and it's nice.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
To hear the whole thing. And I think I think
that's good to do that.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, thank you, Casey. I mean I think that it's
cool that anyone pays attention to it at all. Rick Roll,
Actually that wasn't a sympathetic thing.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Play I play the rick Roll at post at the
end of the episode.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
H I do want the second right at the end
there you should ask we should we can tell them.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
But I can't where we're still going I thought it
was gonna it's gonna end.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Twenty seconds, So listen in the last twenty seconds if
you're listening to this and you and you have the
opportunity to edit it. After Casey said that we should
play the funny song right there, Okay, all right, case
go get your child.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Love you guys, love everybody body. Just give it a
sh
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