New Year's Attacks, Kohberger, NICU Nurse Arrest, and Wheel Well Deaths with Podcast Host & Reporter, Lauren Conlin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Deeth. We are joined by
a very special guest for today's news episode. We have
reporter and host of Pop Crime TV, Lauren Conlin. Welcome, Lauren,
Thank you so much for having me. This is such
an honor.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Thanks to comment.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
We thought it would be so cool to have you
because we're friends with you and we're usually like texting
back and forth with you about these stories and we're like,
wait a second, everybody might want to hear us talk
about it. So we also had that incredibly juicy dinner
a couple of last month.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I guess you know, it.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Was so fun. It was so fun, and yes, we
do go back and forth, and I wanted to ask you, Nicole,
I mean, we'll get there, but the bodies and the
jet blue wheel, well, I was like, how is this possible?
How is this possible? And you're right, people do probably
want to hear about that.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, exactly, So let's start talking about all right. So
we uncover a whole lot of true crime this week
when we came back from vacation, but obviously the biggest
thing that happened was there was a terrorist attack, So
let's start with that story maybe. Yeah, So, hours after
ringing in the New Year, a ton of people were
still partying on Bourbon Street in New Orleans, and then

(01:28):
suddenly this pickup truck came barreling down the street. He
hit a bunch of people, and then after that, he
gets out of the car and starts shooting as police
are responding to the scene. Yeah, that was terrible. We
were away on our trip where you guys were away too, right, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
You were away. I was in Florida, right, And yeah,
it just it was heartbreaking to wake up to news
like that. And I think that it's very scary when
you just see a couple headlines and you don't know
what's going on on. And to be honest, guys, the
FBI still doesn't know what's going on. I mean, this guy,
we think his name is shamsu Din Jabbar. I believe

(02:09):
he was radicalized for a number of reasons. I mean,
everything right now is pointing to that. Because he was
a US citizen, he was born and raised here. A
year before he carried out this New Year's Day attack,
he was in Egypt. He's spent a few month months
in Egypt, and you know, Egypt is known for having

(02:30):
a subsidiary of ISIS. And we know now that he
was flying an ISIS flag on the truck. And yeah,
I mean it's it's scary. This ISIS subsidiary. It was founded,
I believe in twenty fourteen, and they took responsibility for
a bunch of different kidnappings and a bunch of different attacks.

(02:51):
And he it's called ISIS Sinai. I don't know if
you've heard of this, but and it was actually I
stand corrected. It was formed in twenty eleven and it's
linked to al Qaeda. And yeah, I mean, he also
had a lot of different stuff going on in his life.
He was married multiple times, I believe, you know, two
or three times, and his latest divorce he was going

(03:14):
through that. He owed a lot of money, he wasn't
able to see his children. So I think at this
point it for me to speculate that he was radicalized.
I think that's valid for where we are right now
with the investigation.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, definitely, And I think you can't ignore that the
ISIS flag was in the truck as well. And then
we have to talk about the meta glasses too, and
him going to the scene of the crime in October,
riding around on a bicycle with these glasses which kind
of make him really easily blend in and scoping out
where he's going to plan this attack.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, that just proves that it was premeditated. To me,
you know, this was going to happen, whether whether or
not anybody suspected this guy to do anything. You know,
this was in his head and it's just it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Why do you think the FBI at first was saying
that it wasn't a terrorist attack because there were photos
circulating online very early on of FBI agents taking photos
of this flag that was in the back of his truck.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I think they say that to downplay things at first
and to possibly just mitigate the circumstances so people don't
go crazy. I mean, who knows. I think they're also
thinking of people that might want to just go crazy
on Muslims in general to retaliate who you know, there's
a number of reasons. But it bothered me a little

(04:38):
bit after the fact that they kept saying it wasn't
a terror attack over and over and over. Days later,
after we kind of found out a little bit more
about this guy's history, because I'm just like, you don't
know that yet, especially that the fact that we found
out that he did did the Egypt and he was
flying this flag. I mean, it's like, you got to

(04:58):
stop saying that because you don't you don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I think back in the day, they used to be
able to do that, where there was only news on
the TV and you just listen to what you heard
and that's all you knew.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
But they need to come up.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
With a different way of approaching this because of social media,
because we're all on X and just like looking at
all of these pictures and stuff, and this is how
you lose trust in the government because you're trying to
tell us not to believe what we see with our
own eyes, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yes, I agree. And they also said something like we
believe that he did not work with anyone else, he
worked alone. I have I guess I have issue with this.
For them to go out and say it's statement like
that so quickly after the incident, I don't think that's
right either, because it could take months, it could take
a year for them to actually figure out if he

(05:49):
worked alone or not. He knew there were no barricades there,
and that was a huge, huge point of contention with
the Louisiana State Police and the City of New Orleans
in general, because there should be a barrier a fairly yeah,
and barricades, and somebody, I don't know if it was him,
but somebody had to inform him or alert him that

(06:09):
they weren't there, and it's wide open for him. But again,
I just think it's it's irresponsible to come out and
say things like that. He did not, you know, work
with anyone else. He worked alone. I just I don't
think that it's it's you know, it's it's confirmed at
this point.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Dude, my husband worked.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
He is a firefighter, but he went to school for
emergency management. That was what his bachelor or his master's
degree was for. And I remember years ago we were
on the boardwalk just walking with all these people, and
he's just like this, this is what he learned in school.
So he's just looking around all the time, and he's like,
this is such a soft target. Someone could drive right
up this ramp and just mow down all these people.

(06:52):
And and I never I didn't think of it as
a regular mom walking on the boardwalk with my kids.
But now you're walking and I just was in Las
Vegas the other day. We're walking on that Friedmont Street,
like the original part of Vegas, and they had those
big barricades up that no one could drive through because
people are walking on that street all the time. And

(07:15):
you think like, Okay, if this was just there, this
wouldn't have happened, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh no, I was just going to say. And now
that the super Bowl is happening in New Orleans next month,
they're saying they're amping security. But why weren't we amping
it in this party town on the biggest partying day
of the year.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
That is the question. Why not on New yor Z Eve.
And just to go back to the driving, I've spoken
to law enforcement and just people that served on the
Anti Terrorism Task Force and they said that is one
of their biggest fears is vehicles because they can't be stopped,
right they can, and they cannot be traced as a

(07:56):
terror attack either. And I know that we're probably going
to get into the Lost Vegas attack as well, but
it is really interesting that both of these guys use
the Turo app from what I learned about the Tururo app.
It is a little bit more flexible, a little bit
more lucy goosey than let's say, renting a car from
Alamo or Enterprise and things of that nature, because Turo

(08:19):
you're actually renting it from another car owner. So it
is a little bit different. Again, I don't necessarily believe
in coincidences, but and I don't know if I'm going
if I'm jumping a gun too far here, But I
just want to point out Matthew Libbelsberger, who was responsible
for the cyber truck explosion and from Jabbar. They both

(08:40):
served at Fort Bragg, and they both served in Afghanistan,
and they both used the Turo app, and they carried
out these crimes on Me Year's Day. Again, it could
be nothing, but I do think it's worth it.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
How is it? How is it nothing?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I know?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Are to ignore the coincidences in this case, with you know,
the cyber truck explosion at the Trump Hotel being only
hours after the New Orleans attack and same exact thing,
Like you're saying, they've both runted the cars through essentially
the same apps. They both were serving in the military.
They did say at some point they were at the
same case base camp, but they can't prove that their

(09:21):
time's overlapped right now.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
So right, I think it'll be interesting to see if
there were connections, right, And.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
It also could be you know, it could be a
little bit less conspiratorial than we're thinking. Yeah, I thought
the other day, you know, I do believe it. And
you know, we've got We've got Luigi Mangioni, right who
shot the CEO. In his writings, he said something like, well,
I was possibly going to use a bomb, I'm paraphrasing,

(09:48):
but that would kill too many innocent people, you know.
Then we have Libelsberger and so by the way, to me,
that indicates that Luigi Manzioni is of sound mind. Then
you have Libbelsburger, who appears to not be of sound
mine because not only did he use explosives, but he
also died by suicide. That would indicate you're not of

(10:09):
sound mine. And then you've got from Sue Jabbar, which
to me, I believe he's radicalized. And I think there
could be a component of traumatic brain injury there with
Jabbar as well as Libelsburger, because they served in the army,
and we know that vets don't get treated very well.
That's my opinion in the United States. They don't get

(10:31):
the help they need. It's also looked down upon if
they reach out to somebody and say, I need help.
My head is not right, especially if they're still serving.
So I think it's really interesting here to possibly dive
into some of these head injuries that these guys could
possibly have death.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
There was this other guy that carried out a mass
shooting a couple years back that had a history of
traumatic brain injury and being in the service as well.
Do you remember that like up in Maine or I
don't know if it was Maine or no, it was
north of us, all right, remember that that he went
in the bowling alley and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah, there's so many of them you can't even keep
you can't even keep on top of it.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
One thing I wanted to bring up was the metaw glasses, Like,
I'm not one hundred percent familiar with what, Like, what
what's the point of those positive?

Speaker 1 (11:22):
I mean obviously yeah, no, I'm kind of with you.
To me, it's like body cam. It's like yoddycam footage.
I mean that's really all it is to me, because
I had a friend that had them, and I'm kind
of like, why are these so cool? It's just kind
of like you're recording in in four D. I guess
everything that's that's around you. But I don't even think
he was recording half the time. But these he was

(11:43):
wearing these glasses. It was only one or two instances.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
What what I don't understand, Like I I just don't
understand why a person needs that, Like whether theread of
that technology in construction, Like a lot of construction workers
or architects will wear them as they're trying to landscape
projects and everything. But beyond at the mall, I just
don't yet landscrafters at the mall. I'm just trying to see,
Like they keep creating this Facebook Live, this, that and

(12:11):
the other, and you think, like, really, what is the point?
They don't ever sit there and say what are the
bad things that people are going to do with this
technology that we're making?

Speaker 3 (12:19):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well, this brings up a good point about this. In
the Vegas situation, he used chat gvt to help him,
oh magically plan this attack, and you know, the the
owners of chat gvt are trying to say basically that
their system is trained to flag these and not encourage
it or anything. But it was just using information already available.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
On the internet.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
So what kind of defense is that.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
That's a horrible defense. And I mean, just going back
to Libelsburger. I don't know if you guys saw, but
there's this podcaster Sean Ryan.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Did you see all of that where he yeah, yeah,
he had someone on his show who got emails from
from Libelsburger and and they were describing him saying something
about drones and just again conspiratorial things. I believe that
some of these emails have been verified, but I mean

(13:15):
they were getting a lot of heat saying that they
weren't real, and I'm just like, what don't they have
to why would they lie about this stuff? It's not
you know what I mean, They're not daining anything from
And I guess if he gets enough clicks and views
that I don't think he necessarily would need this.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, but he just blew up, like why would he
sabotage his his He had a good standing prior to this,
And no, I think the FBI has confirmed that these
are real emails from that guy.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yes, I mean, so again, I don't know if all
of that. There was a bunch of them, and I
don't know if all of them. I mean, you could
be right, I should I should have checked this morning,
but I guess I. He again, like MANGIONI, kind of
spells it out for us and says, this is not
a terror attack. He just needed to cleanse himself from
the deaths of his brothers and from all the people

(14:04):
that he killed while he was serving. And it's just
it's heartbreaking to be honest with you, and with even
more bizarre and it just tells me again, I'm not
a doctor, but he was going through it, and he
did have some kind of brain injury. As he's texting
his ex girlfriend like everything is fine, right, but his
wife had kicked him out. Apparently he's going through all

(14:26):
of these issues and everything's fine when he's texting her.
It's bizarre and sad.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, they can tell if he had traumatic encephalopathy from
having previous injuries, because what happens is if you have
a brain injury, one of them is probably okay, but
then it's something about having multiple brain injuries and then
you start just having almost signs of dementia. This was

(14:53):
first noticed in boxers actually from getting punched in the
head all of the time, and they can't really die,
no sit until autopsy because they have to look at
the brain under the microscope, and obviously you can't really
do without huge chunks of your brain while you're still alive. Now,
the problem in his case is going to be that
he was burned so bad in this particular suicide, but

(15:17):
there might still be viable brain tissue left. Because you
think that he was burned beyond recognition and of so
that makes you think that, you know, he might have
been skeletonized or something like that, but that's just not
the case. If you even if you want to cremate somebody,
it doesn't completely make their body just ashes, you know

(15:39):
what I mean. You have to cook somebody, cook, use
the word cook for a very long time at a
high temperature, for so sixteen hundred to eighteen hundred degrees
fahrenheit for ninety minutes to cremate a person. Right, so
this particular fire was at a high it was a
high temperature, but just he was only in that short

(16:00):
period of time. So not to be gross, but think
about sticking a piece of steak in the oven even
if it's at nine hundred or one thousand degrees, you
stick it in for a minute. It's not going to
cook it all the way through, right, It's just going
to be crispy on the outside kind of and raw
on the inside. And that's what happens in some of
these fire deaths. So that's how they were able to

(16:22):
determine that he shot himself before the fire, because they
could tell that he was hemorrhaging before the fire, rather
than getting shot after.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
He was already burned.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
So he does have some soft tissue left, so I'm
not sure if they'll have enough to be able to
look at it. Do you want to talk about too,
how they identified his body.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I was going to ask you about this about the tattoo.
How are they able if he's charred to a crisp
how are they able to sort of still see a tattoo.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
So a tattoo is actually on where you're looking at it.
Your skin is the epidermis, but it goes deep into
the dermis of the skin and the bottom layers of
the skin.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
So if he had any skin left.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
They would still be able to see it. And we
have a friend, her name is a friend Michelle Miranda,
doctor Michelle Miranda. But she does forensic tattoo. I don't
know if you've ever seen her on Instagram, but she
just focuses and just does research in forensic tattoos.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
It's really cool and wow.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
So yeah, so she would be I mean, you could
talk to her about this for hours, how they identify
people and stuff. But yeah, I don't think that his
whole entire body was so charred that there was no
way to see. It's just maybe especially he shot himself
in the head and then the explosion occurred because of
those gases near his head, so that his teeth were missing,

(17:44):
his facial features weren't recognizable anymore, but his arm or
wherever he had the tattoo, that piece of skin could
have still been present, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Yeah, I was just confused about that because there was
all these reports that he was charred to occur. Then
it's like, oh, we were able to identify him with
the tattoo, And I'm like, oh, no, that's I don't
get it. But also iw.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
You know, and yeah, and that's and and that's what
starts speculating. All the speculation starts online because there's all
of these pictures online of his id was like barely charred, right,
so people and the gun was bare so they're like,
how come the fire was so bad that you can't
even recognize him? But like I said, he and he

(18:28):
even looked this up. He was looking up how to
carry this out, and he looked up how if he
shot himself, how that fire coming out of the gun
would cause the explosion, So that all happened near his head.
So I would say that that's where the majority of
the damage and the fire were from the initial explosion.
But your body's also made with fat. That that's fuel,

(18:50):
you know what I mean, that's that fuels the fire.
Whereas if those things were at the bottom of his feet,
it is possible because there were witnesses, they got him
out really fast, you know what I mean, and he
wasn't in there too long. So that's what I think
happened with that. Were you also freaking out because I
read he was originally planning to take this out at
the Grand Canyon and you were there, right, yeah, that

(19:14):
wad I didn't hear that that was the original plan.
And I guess right now they're trying to figure out
why he made the last minute change. Wait seriously, yeah,
I'm not joking. I'm really happy because I'm like, I
freak out about this ship.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
I would have been like, we're not going there, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Like, well, it would have been around what day were
you there on that day or the day after?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
I was there? No, I was there.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I was there the day I was there on January second. Problem,
So what happened the day before?

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Wow, yeah I was there January second.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
That theory scary, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
But the whole time I was I went to a
lot of these different places with the National Parks aspect,
like the Grand Canyon. We waited in line for over
an hour in our car just to get in. So
there's so many people there, like and of course, now
my husband's got me thinking the same exact way of
just like this could totally happen, Like why wouldn't they
just come here?

Speaker 3 (20:09):
There's all these people. It's it's freaking scary, man.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
People are scary.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Now, Yeah, it's really terrifying, and you know, to think
this his hack could have been so much worse. But
they were saying the cyber truck was actually one of
the poorish choices of cars to do this because it
contained most of the explosion. So if it was any
other car, it could have been way worse and injured
a bunch of people. But at least, you know, only

(20:33):
maybe he intentionally did that so other people wouldn't get hurt.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
I mean, I know that would make him too sound
of mine, I don't know, you know what I mean.
I mean, listen, I you're right, because I did see
that the if he had a different type of car,
it wouldn't necessarily go upward like you had that. It
kind of got his head and it went upward the
explosion and the fire. But just going back to some

(21:00):
of the conspiracies, you know, Elon Musk, he shot down
a couple of conspiracies of people who said, well, maybe
somebody shot him or forced him to shoot himself and
then the car drove itself to the location. But Elon
Musk said, no, you have to be an active presence
in the driver's seat in order for it to do that.
But I do think it it cannot be lost. The

(21:23):
symbolism here, right, you have an Elon Musk car in
front of a Trump hotel. It's just it's beyond me
and this guy was supposedly a Trump supporter, so that
right there, I'm like, well, I've already said I don't
necessarily believe in coincidences, But what does that mean? What
what does that mean to everybody?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
It is? It's so weird. I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
You can't you can't ignore that at all, right.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
So we just don't have answers. That's yeah, there's no.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
But will will they?

Speaker 2 (21:55):
In both cases, with both terrorist attacks, their loved ones
were saying they seemed totally normal and didn't especially with
the first guy in New Orleans, they didn't seem any
there was any signs of him being radicalized until he
started posting all those videos on Facebook hours before the
attack exactly. And which is a whole other thing, because
you know, I'm censored on Instagram so bad, oh, I

(22:19):
mean for years. And I'm just like, if they can
figure out that I'm posting a video of someone getting
open heart surgery or something and they could take it
down within a minute, I just don't understand how they
can't find this stuff and have keywords or something that
triggers the.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
System that gets it off right away. I know they
have it.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I just know it, you know, Well, they now I
think things are going to be a little bit more
lucy goosey, if you will, because he's making changes. Mark
Zuckerberg to Facebook saying they're not going to start putting
those misinformation disclaimers and whatnot. And I mean, yeah, I
get it, because whatever you were doing was really working

(23:00):
for everybody. And you're right, it wasn't exactly quote unquote fair.
I guess it wasn't. There was no balance, if you will,
because why would you get censored but this guy wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, exactly. Well, we can go. We could talk a
whole episode about about that, about everything.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
All right, Should we shift gears to Brian Coburger, Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
All right.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
So if anybody has ever listened to the show before,
we have talked at length about Brian Coburger. So for
those of you who don't know, which has to be
less than one percent of our listeners, he was the man.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Listen. I'm serious.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Sometimes I'll be at a party or something and they'll say, like,
what case is the biggest case that you're interested in
this year? And I always say, oh, Brian Coberger and stuff,
and they're like, oh, if I haven't heard of that,
And I'm.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Wait? Do you that? Like me? My husband told me
other this is so weird, and I'm sorry to interrupt you,
but the exact same thing happened to me. I brought
it up at a party, exactly a party because I'm like, well,
if anybody knows any crime story that has to be Idaho,
it has to be Coburger. And I was shocked, just
like you. I was like, you don't know that, and
my husband's like, not everybody is as crazy as you

(24:25):
or as you know.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
What do you mean? This is on mainstream news. It's
not like it's just me talking about it exactly.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
It's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
My husband's one of those people though, that just will
have absolutely no idea. What's like major freaking news last night?
I said, did you see all these? I said, text
your cousin who lives in LA and make sure he's okay.
And he's like about, what, Oh my god, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
The entire city's burning down.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
It's not funny.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
I like, I kind of get jealous of people that
could live in that world, really, because it must be
you know, ignorance is bliss, Like it just must be
so nice to just not be worried at all times.
Like every day you wake up and I'm thinking, like yesterday, okay,
we're going to talk about this terrorist attack that was horrible,
and then you're like, wait a second, LA is burning

(25:16):
down right now, and all.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
This has happened. It's just like all the time it's
turned on.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
You know, Nicole, I'm with you. I say that all
the time. I kind of wish I used to be
very ignorant, and I kind of wish I was back
in that in that place. But I mean I do
when I don't. But it's weird because you go to
bed at night and your brain just starts spinning. For
me anyway, and I'm always just thinking. I always just
make sure to pray and to be I tell my

(25:41):
kids never take an ordinary day for granted, because ordinary
days are the best days. You go about your routine,
nothing's wrong, and I think that's just important to remember
all the time, especially with the climate that we live
in right now.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Oh definitely.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
So for those of you who don't know about this case,
which I could confidently say that three of us are
slightly judging you for Frankoberger is the man Chargers killing
four students in Moscow, Idaho, and he was apparently investigated
in another home invasion a year before that.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yes, well they didn't investigate him until he was the
suspect for the the Yes, the four murders in Idaho
are the four co eds. So yeah, I mean at
first that was a little bit unclear to me. They
looked at him, yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, And I mean, guys,
I have to say, I think that this is going

(26:35):
to help him in his trial. And I do. I
think this is going to help him because even though
they said he's got these bushy eyebrows, and that was,
you know, a huge descriptive element that the one surviving
roommate had described he had these bushy eyebrows. So did
the person whose house he broke into, or the whatever

(26:59):
perpose this is, whoever this guy is, uh, he broke
into this house and they described this purpose having bushy
eyebrows as well. However, there is a big difference in
their heights. Yeah, right, So this Brian Coburger is around
six feet is that right?

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, so he's about six feet Is it possible that
this other person has the height off? Because what grown
adult male is five foot three there's not many of them.
I mean, think about it, like, like I know that
you've seen guys that are that small, but like not really. Ever,
it's very rare to see a dude that's five foot three.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
You're right, You're right.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I mean that's how I don't know how tall you are.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
I'm five foot I'm almost five foot nine, right, Like, OK,
for guys to be shorter than me already is rare,
and that short is every you're like five, I'm five,
I'm five four, which they said that this aspect was
between five three and five to five, So yeah, around
my height. That's just it's I mean not to say

(28:05):
that that's not possible obviously, but it's it's just like
keep that in mind that that's not that cool. The
other thing going against him was he wasn't yet enrolled
in the university, so it's not like the height was
the only difference. I think there are, you know, weird
similarities in the sense of broken in the middle of
the night was silent through the entire exchange, holding a

(28:26):
knife sche mask. You're right that this is going to
hurt him, because if it's definitely not him, then who's
that person that is called that's what.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think it's gonna help him. I think that they're
gonna say, well, what about this guy who has the
same type of m O. However, this guy is much shorter.
Why are you not looking into this guy? Why are
you only a focused hyper focused on my client. I
feel like that's what his team is going to say,
if they're good defense attorneys or public defenders, whatever he's using.

(28:55):
I believe a public defender. And she is good. That's
the thing. She is good and thus far I think,
I mean personally, you guys, I think he's guilty. He
is the guy where there is Unford. Okay, there's no
doubt in my mind he is the guy.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Why just because his mugshot is the scariest freakin' thing ever. Like,
I'm sorry when that when that came out and they
were like, because we were on it was wasn't it
last year around there or two years ago around this
time twenty Yeah, because we usually go away that time
and we're in the car and I hear that they
have a suspect and when that picture came across, it

(29:31):
like scared me.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
When I looked at his eyes, I.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Know he's scary. He is blank behind him. Yeah, he
is blank and that's it for me. I mean, also,
I do think they have a lot of evidence against
him or that they can use against him, just because
they don't have the murder weapon. I don't think that's
going to be an issue. I really don't. I don't
think we've seen all of the DNA testing it. I
mean we haven't. That's just that's factual. So I believe

(29:58):
that he is the guy. But this is going to
be I think this is going to be big or
a big part of his defense. Like why didn't you
look at this guy, this shorter guy who seemed to
have the same features supposedly as my client here. I mean,
you guys had your mind made up already. You didn't
do any other investigating. And that's kind of what Scott
Peterson said, right there was a burglary. Why didn't you

(30:19):
look into this burglary? You had your mind, you know,
made up about me? And I just don't think I
don't think it's it's necessarily going to matter in the end,
but it's something, right.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Think about the people that the woman that was in
the first burglary in twenty twenty one. Also, so you
know this happens in twenty twenty one, in October, and
then they don't think they can't catch anybody who's done it.
And then all of a sudden at the beginning of
twenty twenty three, so they were saying thirteen days after
Cober was arrested, that's when they started looking into him
for this case, this other case potentially. So now you're thinking,

(30:54):
not only did somebody break in my house, but it
was potentially this horrific murderer, and thank god I escaped that,
and then all of a sudden, now they don't think
he did it, and now your case is still unsolved. Yeah,
it's very scary to think about. You know, we had
a similar thing happened in our family when I was thirteen.
Somebody broke in our house when I was home alone
with my younger cousin, and I've been able to be

(31:17):
at peace with that because they caught the person very quickly,
and luckily nothing happened to us. So I'm thinking about
how horrific this entire situation must have been.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I am I'm shook. That is so traumatizing for you.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
It was because I was a single mom and I
was at work, and it was during the summer and
she was home.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
I was working in the pathology lab like.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Normal day, and I get a call that Maria calls
me and she's like, someone's in the house. And I
was like, well, we had just didn't we just move
in and we just moved in that house I think
three months before. So she said she go I said,
what do you mean, and she's like, there's a guy
in the living room. And then I still I didn't
think anything of it because I thought my sister was

(32:02):
still home and was it was like the cable person
or whatever, because we were living with my sister and
my niece at the time. And I was like, oh,
it's probably just the Comcast guy like putting in the cable, right,
And then I said, we'll go upstairs and tell Annie.
And then she told me that she wasn't home, and
I was like, oh my god. And luckily the cops
came and everything, and here it was just this guy

(32:23):
that was like a drifter walking up the street and
he was high on drugs and he just wandered in
the house. There was cash on the table, he didn't
even touch it. Like it ended up working out so fine.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Wait, Maria, you did see like, did he see you
and your cousin?

Speaker 3 (32:39):
So this is what happened.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
So we lived in this Victorian house and I was
sleeping in your bedroom and my mom's bedroom at the
time had one door that went into the living room
and one door that went to the upstairs because it
was like a former like drawing room or whatever, the
old setup. So I heard a bunch of noise. We had,
like you know, this was what two thousand in two
thousand and eight, so we had like beads in the

(33:02):
window whatever the style was at the time, and I'm
hearing these beads moving like crazy, and I'm like, what
is that noise? So I opened the door and I
see this like huge man just standing in the dining room.
And you know, I had been asleep, so I didn't know.
I didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Like you, I assumed maybe it was a cable person
or something.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
We just moved in and that's why I called you
and then called Anny to see where you were. And
then it was clear that the person wasn't supposed to.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Be in there.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
So luckily I was able to back into the bedroom,
close that door, go out the other door, and go upstairs.
And then we just like you know, threw a dresser
in front of the door, waited for the cops to
get there. But it was and I feel like I'm
in a really lucky situation because nothing bad happened. I
didn't really have an interaction per se. I just saw
this man that was turned around. So they cops came.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
She described him perfectly. They found him walking up the street.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Then we had to go with the cops and she
had to identify the person in a lineup, which was
it was it was outrageous, but but yeah, and she
one hundred she described them one hundred percent. The cops
were just like, yo, your daughter is like on her shit,
like one hundred percent. And then she pointed him out

(34:19):
and it just was like it was so insane. But
my general point is, like I had I had, I
had a home invasion situation that went pretty good all
things considered. So I'm thinking about waking up three point
thirty in the morning there's a man in a ski
mask holding a knife. I don't know if I'm about
to get murdered, it's actually assaulted or what. And then
they've never caught this person.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, exactly, I'd move I would move far far away.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I'm serious, I would they regardless if it was Coburger now,
which at this point they're saying it wasn't. They still
need to keep that investigation open and try to find that.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Person, especially if he was that much smaller than Coburger.
But Nicole, you bring up a great point. It is
I I don't know. I mean, I don't know the
last time I have seen a man smaller than me.
You're right, I don't go out that much anymore, but
in life in general, I haven't seen like a dad
at school that's that much smaller than me. So I
guess that's what I'm thinking of. But no, that's a

(35:13):
good point. I just I feel like I need this
trial to happen. I would like to move on with
my life some of me that you know what I mean.
I mean, And also I do believe, you know, the
families are are just clearly beside themselves. And I don't
want to speak out of my ass because I don't
know what it feels like. But I would think that
they need him to be convicted in order to start

(35:35):
healing and to move on with their life or or
this part of their life. And again I don't know.
I'm not going to pretend like I know, but for me,
I think I would want that and that would help
me heal or start to heal, I should say, but
I do think it's interesting, and you guys weigh in here.
But the whole death penalty by firing squad, they're saying

(36:00):
that is technically more humane than lethal injection, Nicole, I
mean it is, it.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Is, It is for sure, yeah, because you'll get shot
and you'll die right away.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
The lethal injection is really terrible.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Actually, all the autopsies that they do on those people
have signs of pulmonary edema, which means like you essentially
feel like you're drowning and you're alive for a while
before death occurs. Which, listen, I don't have a problem
if some of these people suffer, to be honest with you,
but yeah, if you want to, if you really want

(36:34):
to get like get the job done and be the
least pain as possible, then just shoot the person in
the head right away and like end it for them
right or the chest, you know, I don't know where
they I think they aim for the heart, probably, I'm
not I don't think that they've met someone in that.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
I don't know. I really don't even know about it.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
I just know that I've always said that, like if
you're gonna it's the same thing like if you want
to talk, I shouldn't even say this out loud, but suicide,
like you definitely do not want to OD on medication.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
You would want to just shoot yourself to take in medication.
It's the worst way to go.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
We had a girl one time that I got some
woman tried to o D on Thailand all, very young girl,
like seventeen years old, tried to o D on Thailand
all and she lived her She had to get her
liver taken out. It was terrible. I had another person
that drank bleach before and she ended up living and
they had to take out her esophagus because the bleach

(37:28):
totally corroded her esophagus. Just like things like that, and
you're just like, shooting is just kind of like right,
it's done, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Women don't tell you that. No. I studied this a
little bit last year. I was I was researching for
the Sandra Birchmore case. Who they did you know that case? No,
she was pregnant and it actually it's a horrific case.
I mean, she was groomed allegedly by these police officers.
He's Stoughton police officers in Massachusetts, and one of them,

(37:59):
who was Mary, got her pregnant. She died by suicide,
but it was so bizarre because they she died with
a It was she hung herself, but it wasn't really
a hanging. She tied one part to the doorknob and
then she opened it or something however that works. But
it was just weird because women don't necessarily do that.
They generally take pills. So that right there was like

(38:24):
a huge red flag, I guess. And then later it
was determined that it was a homicide and not a suicide.
But that's what kind of caused me to look into
females in general and the manner in which they try
to die by suicide. So not to be super depressing, sorry,
but yeah, it is. It's rare for females to use guns.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, So I'm not sure what they're going to do
with him, but I've always had this theory since this
whole entire case started, that there's just more to the case.
And I don't know, because he's a criminal justice student
in a PhD program that maybe he was trying to
carry out this murder so he could write a paper
about it somehow about the investigation and stuff like there's

(39:07):
some kind of spin to it. I don't know, Like
I keep trying to think he is he an intelligent person,
you know, like a super uh what like Ted Kaczinsky
type of person? Or is he just like I don't
believe that he would be so sloppy with leaving the
knife sheath.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
And the DNA. I don't know, you know what I mean, Like,
I'm like, you can't be that smart and in that
program and no, but couldn't he be prepared for the
adrenaline If this was really his first time, I was.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Just gonna say that it was his first It was
his first time, really I believe carrying out murders like this.
And you could say the same thing for Luigi Mangioni.
I mean, he's an IVY league grad. He most likely
planned this for a very long period of time, but
even he messed up. If if you don't have the experience,
I would think that your first time is not going

(40:00):
to be perfect, especially if you're committing crimes of this stature.
It's not like it's your I mean, I don't I
don't want to minimize other crimes and other victims I
guess or other survivors, but your first time, you want
to just stab for people in a house full of
multiple people. And I mean he knew he was allegedly

(40:20):
he was at the house many times before this happened,
and Luigi MANGIONI, I feel like he was watching Brian
Thompson before. That's how he knew the entrance he was
going to come in, and he had planned this and
and you know it was thought out. It's just like
you don't know until you're actually doing it.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
In my opinion, Yeah, well, I mean that's true.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
And you you're taking someone's life, you don't you don't
know how you're going to react to that. It's not
the same as killing someone on a video game, right,
Like there's emotions associated with that, right right. And and
the way Brian Coberger did it was just so it's
not like shot and the body fell down and you
walk away. I mean it was it was engaging and

(41:02):
gruesome and very gruesome and not even expecting how I mean,
if you you saw the blood dripping outside of the house,
I mean it was. It was a scene I can't
even imagine. I can't imagine. I just for first responders
and for forensic investigators to have to walk into that,
I just I can't.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, and it's so personal. It's so personal. I mean,
you're you're fighting as a victim. You're fighting and fighting
and fighting, and at what point, you know, I've thought
about this with other cases I've covered, But at what
point does your body just stop fighting? Right? At which point?
Because you hear about these victims and how many times

(41:46):
they were stabbed, and how badly it would hurt just
for you to be stabbed once, you know, let alone
sixteen to thirty times. I mean, it's unspeakable. It's just
something that I wish I could get out of my head.
But again, go going back to when I lay down
at night and I try to go to sleep, these
are the things that my messed up brain thinks about.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
So yeah, wait till the trial and you start hearing
about the actual autopsy reports and they tell I don't
know how much of that they're going to publicize, but
it's going to be worse than we even could imagine.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Really, right, Well, I feel like this is when we
were watching the Jodyarias trial, which I was way too
young to be watching every single day, but I feel
like every day as the more information came out, and
like you're saying, the stabbing are so intimate and you
have to keep doing it over and over. So her
self defense argument was like, Okay, how many times did

(42:40):
she end up stabbing him, like thirty over thirty times
or something crazy? Right, So at what point is it like,
all right, it's definitely not self defense because most people
wouldn't just keep engaging like that exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I've been covering a case out of Kansas or Oklahoma,
i should say, but I recently returned from the pre
trial hearing and these two women, one of them was
in a custody battle with basically her mother, her ex
mother in law. She was never married to her son,
but the ex mother in law allegedly planned got four

(43:17):
other people to help plan her murder, and also her
supervisor who was kind of like an acquaintance of hers
or a girlfriend of hers, who was a mother of
four and a preacher's wife and the mother of four
she was stabbed sixteen times, who she had nothing to
do with anything right, nothing to do with anything. And

(43:38):
then you have Veronica, who was in the middle of
all this. She was stabbed over thirty times. And I
think Nicole, you would find Gillian, the supervisor her autopsy
really troubling because they and after hearing what I heard
at the pre trial hearing, I believe she was paralyzed.

(43:59):
And the defendant who saw her after she was stabbed,
I believe fourteen times he noticed that she was blinking
and not moving, and so he decided to stab her
in the jugular, and I believe that is what killed her.
But he thought to himself, well, we're going to bury
these women, it's probably better if I stab her then
have her wake up fifteen feet underground in a chest freezer.

(44:22):
And you're like, oh, wow, you're so You're so kind,
How nice are you? But it's the most disturbing and
terrifying case I have come across in a very very
long time justice fase women cannot.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
There's definitely a difference between people who kill people like
that versus.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Just shooting someone, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Right, Oh, totally sorry. I didn't mean to bring it
down that much.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
But yeah, sorry, I'm like, no, you're good. I mean
we're always on our show.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
That's the thing. It's like our show, and it's the
same vibe as yours. Like we try to keep positive
and be and laughing about certain things, but we're also
talking about terrible the most terrible day in some people's lives.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
So yeah, yes, all right, let's talk about this. This
nick you nurse.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
So in the last couple of months at this Virginia hospital,
a couple of newborns in the nick you were suffering
what they are calling unexplainable fractures, which prompted this internal investigation.
So is it common that dead babies get fractures or
in the nicku they would be more susceptible to getting fractures. No,
I mean when the most common injury or fracture that

(45:29):
would occur in a newborn like that is when they're
being born and they're getting either pulled out of a
C section, their breech presentation, or they're stuck in the
vaginal canal. Sometimes, like even one of my coworkers, his
son's clavigal got broke when they were pulling the You know,
when they're using four steps to pull a baby out
that's stuck, right, and it's sometimes they have to do

(45:52):
excessive force to get the kid out because they don't
want I mean, a broken clavigal isn't a dead.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Baby, right, right.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
So that's the most common call of a fracture, and
a newborn like that is accidental, you would say. When
you see fractures in children that are under eighteen months
old that don't walk yet, it's almost always child abuse.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Wow. Oh well, yeah, I just want to know this woman.
I was trying to search her on Facebook. I just
what is your background, like, what is her what was
her childhood like that she allegedly felt the need to
do this. Could she not have children of her own?
I mean I always try to look into to one's psyche. Again,

(46:36):
not a doctor, don't have any type of degree there.
But you got to wonder, she's not just doing this
quote for fun, right, She's got to be telling herself
something that that makes her do this, that makes her
think that this is the right thing to do. I mean,
that's just something that it's so horrific and it's so disturbing.
I'm just trying to make sense of it. I guess, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
And I saw photos her from when she graduated from
nursing school, and it's like, it looks like she has
a supportive family that was there that I think the
same thing. I'm like, what happened in this young how
she's young right like twenty she's twenty six, and it
seems like she's been a nurse for at least five years.
And I guess what prompted this investigation in particular was

(47:19):
three babies ended up getting fractures between November and December
of last year, and then when they started investigating it,
they realized they had four similar cases from the summer
of twenty twenty three. So there are seven potential victims
that they know about, right, so and so, one of
the dads of the victims was interviewed and said that
all of so, all seven babies have the same thing

(47:40):
in common is that they're all male.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
It's so gross. I mean, they're babies. I yeah, that's
that's where I'm just like, no. And when you said
something about people facing lethal injection and some of these
people possibly deserve to suffer, people that harm children and babies, Yeah,
they deserve to suffer. Yeah, I say, yeah, I don't care.

(48:04):
They deserve it. That's that's it's inhumane. I mean a child,
a baby, an infant, They can't defend themselves. My gosh.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
No, we always are bringing up the argument, why are
you going through all of the schooling and everything to
end up doing these egregious crimes And she's only twenty
six year old? Twenty six year old, I mean she's
facing now up to potentially thirty years in prison between
the multiple charges she has. So you've completely ruined your
life and you you've barely just started your adult life.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
What are you thinking doing this? You will get her goal?
I don't.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
There's just more to it, because if you're a nurse
and you have any education, like you know that you're
going to get in trouble doing this. You're It's not
something you could just get away with. You can't just
say any of your patients has a weird thing. You
can't just be like, oh, I don't know how that happened,
and they're not be an investigation. And there's specifically like

(48:57):
orthopedic doctors that specialize in this. They could tell fractures
that happen if they're typical with abuse or whatever, like
they have certain looks to them these cases, certain areas
of the bone if they're broken, they're almost always associated
with abuse cases because they just don't naturally break like that,
you know. So when she did that, she had to

(49:20):
know that they were going to do imaging and they
were an investigation. So it's not like, remember like Charles Colin,
the one that was so yeah, he's just going to
bring that up. Okay, so do you do you know
about that case? My friend Amy, she was in this.
It's the movie The Good on Netflix, but it's based

(49:42):
off of the nurse serial killer who killed they think
up to four hundred victims. But basically, the hospitals knew
he was a problem and knew he was probably killing
these patients, but didn't want the pr crisis, so they
just kept moving him around.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh I do remember, yes, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
But he was like slipping things into the ivy. It
was like a little less obvious that he was doing it,
and then they would say, Okay, this person just went
into a diabetic coma, and then they thought, Okay, that's weird.
But it started like not adding up. But it was
a little bit more discreet than just blatantly breaking a
neonates leg, you know, like it's just so weird.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah. Do you guys watch Dexter Original Sin?

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Yeah? I did. I didn't start the new one yet though,
Oh that's.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
What I mean. So no, No, the new one's called
Original Sin. And there this is not giving anything away.
It's actually so good by the way. I didn't think
I would like it because I love the original characters,
but I love this. But there is the cliche nurse
that you know, harms people. And again this doesn't really
give anything away. But it's what you said, it's very

(50:49):
it's subtle, it's not breaking limbs. And you'd think that
if you're going to do that, you would do it
in a subtle manner if you don't want to get caught.
But I think that, and again, without knowing everything, there's
a difference. Right, you are mentally ill and you're inherently evil?
Could you be both? Probably is this woman one over

(51:10):
the other. I'm thinking maybe she's more mentally ill, because,
like you said, it seems very obvious at this point
that you're gonna get caught if you're doing it in
this manner.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, And it's just it's the same thing as like
I don't know, like maybe teachers that that end up
being that harm children or priests that are children and stuff.
It's like people go into these fields so they have
access to what they're trying to do, So it could hapen.
Nurses and doctors are people just the same as everyone else, right,

(51:41):
So it's like you're just gonna get a bad one
once in a while, right, I don't know. It's just
so disturbing to think about, because you know, your average
baby isn't in the nicku, right, so these are children
that are specially put in there. Yeah, they're premature babies
that have to be in there for because they need
assistance to go out into the real world, whatever that

(52:03):
particular thing is.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
But they are definitely more fragile.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
But the bones, you know, when a fetus is born,
the bones are some of them are softer, especially the skull,
because it needs to increase in size as the child
grows into an adult. But the bones themselves are still
very strong and they don't just easily fracture. I think
one of the excuses they gave to one of the

(52:28):
parents was they thought that the baby's leg broke when
the baby was getting an injection. And I'm like, no, like,
unless there was excessive force, you know what, I mean,
like something wasn't right about that, so they wouldn't just
break easily like that.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Also, she didn't look overly arrogant either, because sometimes these
alleged killers are just arrogant and they think, oh, we'll
never get caught, we can do whatever we want. Judging
from her mugshots, she looks a little bit timid. She
doesn't seem like somebody who would be, you know, over confident.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I guess yeah, she she just looks very she looks
very unassuming.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Right, it's a totally total Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Let's wrap up though with talking about the wheelwll drama.
So we had closed Tuesday show discussing this United flight
that landed in Maui and they discovered a dead body
in the wheelwell. And now it has happened again, this
time in Florida with two dead bodies. So the one
in Maui was on Christmas Day, right, or Chris Christmas
Eve or Christmas Day, So that was only a couple

(53:28):
of weeks ago, and now this one just happened.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
I don't understand. I I mean, this is I was
just on a Jet Blue flight for Laudernal and from Bla,
and that's what I immediately thought of literally a week ago.
But they believe these bodies.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Oh those bodies I was gonna say, these bodies were
definitely on your plane.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
They were there for a long time.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I mean, so okay. They described that they were doing
a routine check. Cool. Where was this routine check before?
For two weeks? Three weeks? Why are we just discovering
that there are decomposed bodies? I mean, I don't understand
this at all. How do you get up there, Nicole?
What would happen to your body when you were going,

(54:14):
you know, across the country on multiple flights here, I'm
my mind is just going crazy.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
So we just talked about this yesterday. The main cause
of death with Stowways is number one. It's cold, so
you could get hypothermia. I mean most of these people
die anyway, Stowways all like most of them. There's a
few documented cases of survivors. But humans can't survive in
that really cold temperature like negative degrees sometimes negative fifty degrees.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Right, they could literally freeze to death.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
In the air, right, Yes, in the air high altitude,
So you can't live in a high altitude either if
you're a human. Lack of oxygen, you could just pass
out right away. And that's what usually happens, is they
go up up, the altitude's too high and they just
they pass out because of the lack of oxygen. And
they're up in the wheel well and when the wheels
come down to land the plane, they fall out onto

(55:12):
the ground and like splat on someone's driveway.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Can't I can't.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
I have a case of it in the grosser room
of a person that just fell on a suburban neighborhood,
like splat on someone's.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Driveway in front of their minivan. I mean, it fell
from an AirPod.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I mean, I know it's more nuanced than this, but
I'm just being silly, but just to not pay for
your flight and to not be I mean, it just
doesn't seem worth it. And I know again, I know
that it's more than that, there's different circumstances, but like that,
it does seem like a death sentence to anybody who
whose brain thinks rationally, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
How are they accessing the wheelwall? I mean, that's that's
the scariest part of it, because if they could get
in the wheel well, then they can get They're hiding
in the bottom of a plane, like if they have
bomb strapped to them that that's that's a problem.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Mm hm. Did you see that really dumb movie on
Netflix with tarn Edgerton.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
I just watched it.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Yeah, I mean it's that too. You're like, Okay, you're
making this seem really easy, and then it's so simple
to just dismantle a bomb on a plane and jump
in there. And I'm I'm thinking of this right now
as we discuss this.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
No, that's exactly what I was thinking about too, because
I just watched that, I think on Sunday night or something.
So mom for this movie on Netflix is basically like
this terrorist group puts this like ear piece in a
TSA agent's ear and they're like, you're gonna let this
bag go through with the bomb or we're gonna kill
your pregnant girlfriend and whatever. It's this whole drama. But

(56:39):
then they show the guy, like a spoiler alert for
anybody else at the end of the movie that they
showed this man just like so easily disabling this bomb
midflight mid air.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Right, yep. It's like Jason Bateman too is the bad guy,
and I actually love Jason Bateman, but he's doing the
same sarcastic voice that he always uses, but he's this big,
it's it's such a waste of two hours. I wouldn't recommend.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
It was hard to believe totally totally, but this is
this is my point too.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
With the conditions being so cold, it's essentially like you're
putting these bodies. I mean, they probably died the first
time they went up in the air, right, just because
of the altitude. Especially this plane went to freaking Salt
Lake City, high altitude and freezing right.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
But the bodies were.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Essentially refrigerated, slashed frozen up there. So for them to
be decomposed, it had to just be a really long time.
Like they can't decompose in those conditions, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
So how long would you think, I would say, I
mean you're saying two weeks, it could be even longer
than that. Like, yeah, just if.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
They're I mean, if the planes landed in Florida and
it's there for a couple of days, then okay, that
could definitely cause advance decomposition for sure. But if you're
saying like they were saying, it went from it originated
in Jamaica, they did say they thought that they were
from Jamaica.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
But I'm like, no, because that was only a day ago.
There's no way it went from.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Jamaica, Jamaica to JFK to Salt Lake City to JFK
to Fort Lauderdale in one twenty four hour day.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
I don't know, or over the course of two days
whatever it was, because.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
I think I just read on it was CNN or
something that local law enforcement had speculated that they were
there for two weeks. But I I don't know. I
just I'm thinking to myself like this, it's it's scary,
Like you said, how do they get up there? And
how are they not discovered? If it's a routine check?
Why are you not doing more routine checks? But I

(58:44):
Am not going to pretend like I know the inner
workings of you know, how airports and planes operate, because
I really don't. But does that affect the way a
plane flies too? I mean, I just I don't. I
just don't understand it. I'm very alarmed.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Yeah, And I.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Don't know how if the bodies are dead up there,
and thus there's a pocket that they can go in
where they wouldn't fall out because they can't hold on
to anything obviously, unless they were jammed somewhere, because that's
another thing. When the landing groes up and down, it
crosses people to death too, because there's like all different
sorts of causes of death. But when they say a
body's badly decomposed, I don't know what that means, because really,

(59:22):
if a person's decomposed in Philadelphia for one day in
the summer, it looks pretty nasty. You can get green
and bloated and smelly, but then completely decomposed or severely
decomposed of me is like skeletonized remains. So there's such
a variety. I mean, it could be months that a
person was up there. I just don't really know. But
was it what they're describing. Was it a routine inspection

(59:43):
or did they start smelling something when they're working on
a different part of the plane and that's what problems
at the inspection.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
They are not telling us that. If that's the truth,
I would be real. I mean, I mean, look, if
somebody else commented on X they're like, what if there's
a serial killer that works at the air and they
stashed the bodies in a wheelwhow Oh, that's actually interesting.
But I don't think so. But yeah, but I love
the imagination there. Look, I think I think I would

(01:00:11):
like to know more as to how this happened, and
I would like to see some Jet Blue sales right
now bookings have their bookings drop. Seriously, I want to
know or more people going to Delta to American I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Is there a way you could check to see if
it was the same plane you were on as well?

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Because you said JFK I flew out of LaGuardia, so okay.
I felt very relieved hearing you say that just now,
because I don't think I read the JFK part, So
thank goodness. I think I think we're good.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Well, Lauren, thank you so much for coming on our show.
Do you want to tell everyone where they could find you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yes? Thank you so much for having me. This was
so fun. You can find me on YouTube at pop
Crime tv or my website which is Popcrime dot tv.
And you can find me on social media at Lauren
Emily Conlin on Instagram and Conlin Underscore Lauren on Twitter
and Lauren Conlin for on TikTok.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Wait, before what about this?

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
I want to hear about this Fox Nation show that
you did to tell because I think our listeners will
really want to watch that too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Thank you so much for bringing that up. Yeah, so
right now, streaming on Fox Nation, I'm part of a
special that it's about thirty three minutes. It's about the
capture of Luigi Mangioni, and it's about Brian Thompson, the
United Healthcare CEO. A lot of what's in that special
is based on my reporting, because the minute I found

(01:01:39):
out that he was killed, I raced down to the Hilton.
I wanted to just retrace all of his steps because
I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe a crime
like this was caught on camera and that we didn't
know more, and that we weren't able to catch him
right away, and just knowing that you can't go anywhere
in Manhattan, you can't go to a coffee shop, you

(01:01:59):
can't go anywhere without being caught on film. I was
just fascinated and I wanted to know more. So, Yeah,
watch the special. I would really love that, and it's
really interesting. It's really well well done. You do need
a subscription to Fox Nation, so I don't I think
it's like seven dollars a month. You can always do
a trial and campful if anything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
But yeah, sometimes you could log like when I go
to my Comcast or I don't know what it's Exfinity
or whatever. Sometimes you could log in through your provider
and have access to stuff for freeing a session or
something for free.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Yes, they actually said that, use your like when somebody
was logging in, use your Comcast or Exfinity. You're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Yeah, so it's awesome. I'm excited for you that you
got to do that. And it is such an interesting case.
So I can't wait for the trial of that either.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Same here, and I think it was just important to
show that Brian Thompson was a human being with children.
And you know, we just we we shouldn't take the
law into our own hands. It's not right. We'll live
in a lawless country if we all start to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Yeah, really, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
All right, Well, thanks for being here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Thank you so much. I'll talk to you guys soon.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Yes, for sure, thank you for listening to mother nos death.
As a reminder, my training is as a pathologist's assistant.
I have a master's level education and specialize in anatomy
and pathology education. I am not a doctor and I
have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or alive without

(01:03:37):
the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website,
and social media accounts are designed to educate and inform
people based on my experience working in pathology, so they
can make healthier decisions regarding their life and well being.
Always remember that science is changing every day, and the

(01:03:57):
opinions expressed in this episode are based on my knowledge
of those subjects at the time of publication. If you
are having a medical problem, have a medical question, or
having a medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit
an urgent care center, emergency room.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Or hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Elvis Duran

Danielle Monaro

Skeery Jones

Froggy

Garrett

Medha Gandhi

Nate Marino

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}New Year's Attacks, Kohberger, NICU Nurse Arrest, and Wheel Well Deaths with Podcast Host & Reporter, Lauren Conlin