January 6, 2026 • 37 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by bestselling author Rachel Reid, the writer behind Heated Rivalry and the Game Changers series. The series is beloved for redefining queer romance in the world of professional hockey. What began as a passion project quickly became a phenomenon, earning Rachel a devoted global fanbase and cementing Heated Rivalry as a modern romance classic.
She opens up about the origins of Heated Rivalry, how Shane and Ilya’s story evolved from a side romance into something much bigger, and why readers connected so deeply to its emotional honesty. Rachel discusses why Connor Storrie and Hudson Williams were the only choices for Ilya and Shane, if more Ilya and Shane books are coming, and what we might see in Season 2 of the hit series. She also talks about fandom culture, online communities, and the unexpected life-changing success of her books, as well as what it’s like to create characters that live far beyond the page. Plus, she shares what she’s learned as a writer, what inspires her storytelling, and why romance (especially queer romance) matters now more than ever. And she is answering YOUR burning fan questions!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy di Dario. If you haven't been watching Heated Rivalry,
then you are missing out. You're missing out. It is
so good and the season finale just aired and the
world is morning. Not having any new episodes of the
show to watch is very upsetting. But to tie us
over until the season two comes out, I have the
(00:24):
brilliant brain behind Heated Rivalry on my show today. Rachel
Reid is the New York Times best selling author of
the Game Changer's Hockey Romance series, as well as the
standalone hockey romance novels Time to Shine and The Shots
You Take. Without her, we would have no Heated Rivalry
TV show, no Ilia, no Shane, no steamy Slowburn love story.
(00:44):
And today we are diving into her brain to hear
more about her process and answer all of your burning questions.
So let's see if today we can get Rachel to
say something that she has never said before.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Rachel, it is so good to see you. How are
you today?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I feel like you've been on a whirlwind. Are you sleeping,
are you eating? Are you okay?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Some of those things sometimes yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, it's been wild for you, I imagine it never
feels totally normal, Like where are you with.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It all right now?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It still doesn't feel real. I mean every week when
I see a new episode, I'm like, I can't believe
I'm watching it. I can't believe every social media post
I see, every headline, every thing. I don't know, it's
just none of it seems real.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean, when you're writing a book in a whole
series of course, is this something that you hope one
day will happen or it's just kind of like, well
if it does, cool, but that's not really the endgame.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah. For me, I didn't think it was a possibility
at all. Like I just thought the kinds of books
I write just weren't really like filmable, they were anything
anybody would consider filming. So it wasn't really something. I mean,
it's something you might like dream about, but I don't
think I could have dreamed what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
No, it's cool to see the world in a place
where this kind of content is welcomed and wanted and
so popular. I mean, I growing up in and have
a ton of things like this to watch, so it's
super cool that this is out there and people are
responding in such a big way. And by the way,
all different walks of life are loving this, Like I
have so many friends from all different walks who are like,
it's really good.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, my dad's watching it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's amazing. That's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well, I'm so interested in your mind and your creativity
and how things came to fruition. So we have a
lot to get to and I guess to start, I mean,
let's go from the beginning, like what or who inspire
the characters of Ilia and Shane For you.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I think it was just like I mean, I've been
a hockey fan my whole life, so I mean that
starts in the eighties through the nineties. There are just
a lot of hockey players like over the years that
I guess the Alien Shame would be influenced by or like,
you know, kind of an amalgam of a bunch of players,
but also like just a bunch of fictional characters, and
(03:12):
you know, just in general, like they're inspired by some
of my favorite kind of like enemies to lovers type
stories or like forbidden romance type stories, whether that's books
or movies or anything like that. And then Ili is
obviously based on some of the more flashy, cocky European
hockey players that have existed over the years, and Chain's
(03:35):
more of like the boy scout, good boy, captain Canadian boy,
not a ton of fun kind of player, which you
know there have been tons of those over the years.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
They're come into life in such vibrant ways, and they're
so distinct and so different in many ways, which it's
fun to watch to see where their stories are going.
And you know, the books your baby, right, I imagine
you're protective of it, and this series and all of
the books are personal to you. You poured a lot
of love into them, and you created them and have
an idea of where they should go, where you want
(04:07):
them to go if more installments are coming, all of that.
So to release that and put this into the world
as a show is a big deal. And to find
your characters is a big deal. So what made you say,
you know what, Hudson is great for this role and
Connor is great for this role.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Like what was that moment for you? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I think when I first was on set and I
saw them acting in scenes and I was like, Yeah,
they're They're perfect. This is exactly what I pictured in
my head. So it was a great feeling to see
them the characters really come to life. I mean, I
don't have to tell people how great a job Connor
and Hudson are doing.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah, they're phenomenal. Did you have any say in
the casting process?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Not really, Like I was kept in the loop, and
Jacob was very excited about both of them and very
excited about their chemistry. Read so he told me, you
know all about them, hes like the movie we found Arlia, Well,
I think we had Connor first, and then he told
me like later that we'd found Shane, and just like, yeah,
really really exciting. Right away, I could tell how how
(05:12):
excited Jacob was because we knew it was really like,
it was so important to find the right actress for
these characters because otherwise the whole thing kind of fell
apart because it's it's so character driven and fans already
have such a clear idea of what these characters should
look and sound like. And yeah, I really think, I
really think Jacob nailed it by those two guys.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's so wild to me that you don't you know,
get final approvals or a big say, because that's a
lot of trust to put in a team.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, it is, But I never really felt nervous about
it because Jacob just like cared so much about getting
this right, like right from the very first time I
talked to him. He had so much respect for the
books and the characters, and I just trusted it, and
I think I was right to do so.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, oh, I would say so for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So based on all of that, was there a moment
on set that you remember where you were watching them
together or them individually, where you thought, oh, like, yeah,
we totally made the right call based on what you
were seeing and what they were performing.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean I think everything I saw them do. Really,
I don't know if I saw them. I saw them
in a scene together for the first time at the
very end of the first day that I was on set,
and it was the first time, yeah, that I saw
them together. And it was just a very short scene.
I can't say what it is because it hasn't happened yet,
(06:39):
it hasn't been in an episode, it's not an episode
that's been out yet. But yeah, it was just a
really short, really sweet scene and I was blown away
by how how much it just was what was in
my head and the way they sounded, and the like
the way they looked at each other, just everything. It
was very romantic and very sweet, and I was I
was really excited.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh my god, I can't now. I'm trying to think
what that could be and I can't wait for it.
Is there a scene that you wrote in the books
that you hold extra close? I know, I mean, so
much of what you write is so special, But is
there a scene that you're like, Oh my god, that
one's like a little extra special for me.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah. Again, there's one coming up in this week's episode
that's definitely that. So, but if I was going to
talk about one that people have already seen, I mean,
the tuna melt scene was important and that that happened
in last week's episode, so it was really nice to
see that brought to life. It's it's kind of a
(07:35):
complicated scene because it's it's sweet and romantic, but then
takes a bad turn and all of that has to
make sense, and I think they did a really great
job of it. So I know fans were looking forward
to that one too.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Why do you think he freaked out at the end
of the same.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I think he freaked out because it suddenly started to
feel a little bit like a relationship, even though that
does seem like what Shane has wanted all along, I
think just faced with it, he's just not ready to
take that risk. It's it would be a pretty big risk,
and I think Shane's still holding on to hope that
(08:12):
he can like find a girl and not have to
like have this whole extremely difficult affair with his rival player.
I think he's just hoping for something a little easier,
but obviously that's not what's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Then, well, that's a moment too that I feel like
so many of us have gone through and can relate to.
And there's a lot of moments where I'm like, oh
my god, that like that literally happens to me. And
we'll talk about one of those in a bit. But
that's what's so brilliant about this. It is so relatable
in many many ways, and you feel I mean, I
can't speak for everybody, but I certainly have felt a
(08:51):
lot of the things these characters are feeling as I
watch it, which is really really cool. Is there a
scene that either has aired or from the books that
you wrote purely for your own satisfaction. I'm writing this
one for me.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
There's a short and silly sex scene that takes place
near the end of the book that I'd never in
a million years would have expected to make it onto
the show, but.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It did.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So I'm really excited about that because that one really
was just indulgent for me, and it will be in
the final episode.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Okay, Oh, we can't wait for that one.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And I think people will know what I'm talking about
when they see it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I
already have an ideas. And the fans are so amazing
and energized and excited about this show, which is so
cool and what you see on social and every single day,
it's everywhere and people are catching on. It's very much
a word of mouth thing, and I think that's a
huge part of the popularity.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And they're passionate. They're very passionate.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is there a scene that you think readers or watches
of the show are super opinionated about or maybe would
debate a little bit about.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, I think. I mean, there's always a debate about
you know, who's treating who badly? Like, Yeah, should Shane
have run away at the end of that tune of
Melt scene? Should Ilia have been friendlier to Shane at
the end of the Vegas Hotel room scene?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
These are things that fans have been talking about for years,
and I feel like it's there's so many more people
talking about them now after watching the show. But yeah,
the two characters definitely take turns doing and saying the
wrong thing. But I'm looking forward to hearing what people
have to say about the last two episodes. I think
(10:30):
they're the best two episodes so but I also think
they have a lot of important scenes in them that
fans have been very opinionated about over the years. So yeah,
I'm excited to see what people think.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I mean, those moments of conflict are part of
the reason why the show is so captivating, and you
wonder where it's gonna go. As as a writer, as
an author, do you plan out all of those moments?
Are they very deliberate or do you discover some along
the way as you're writing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, I don't plan much. I pretty much just start
with characters and kind of let them tell me the story. Yeah,
I kind of get taken on a journey as I'm writing,
So ideas often just kind of pop into my head
live while I'm writing, and I just kind of see
where they go. Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So you're not like outlining everything ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, I've tried that, and sometimes my publisher asked for
that in advance, but usually what I end up writing
is nothing like what I sent them, So I usually write,
write out a synopsis, and then never look at it again.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's so cool. That is so cool to be so
in the moment with what you're creating. So how long
does that all take you to create and write?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
How long does each book take?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Oh? Most of a year. I'm pretty slow and I
rewrite scenes over and over again usually, So yeah, I
would say, you know, eight months probably at least.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's so cool. That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
What conversation do you hope people are having about this story?
A lot of people are talking about it, as you know,
So what do you I hope the conversations are.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I mean, I've been hearing really positive ones, like one
of them is about you know, how Romance might get
filmed from now on, which I think is really exciting
that I think Jacob has shown that you can film
a high heat romance and not lose any of the
heat and not lose any of the romance. And I
think it's really brave that he did this, and I
(12:24):
hope it changes the way that romance gets filmed. I
also think there's been a lot of conversation about I
don't know, just like more like respecting romance as a
genre which often gets dismissed. I've heard from a lot
of people that said that they've never read Romance and
now they're interested in reading it because they're so invested
(12:46):
in this show, and it's like they enjoy the tension
and all the things that make people love romance. So
I like, yeah, hearing people talking about romance with a
little more in us in respect maybe as a literary genre.
I mean, I hope the biggest thing I hope people
are talking about is, you know, obviously, the stories that
(13:08):
are joyful, the queer stories that are joyful, need to
be on screen way way more often. And I think
Jacob showed that if you respect the IP and you
respect the fans and the original creator of something, you're
going to get a better final product as well. So
I think there's like a lot of things that people
are talking about that are really exciting all at once.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It is refreshing to see a show like this depicting
love and romance and sex in a way that is realistic.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yes, yeah for grown ups.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, we see so much of that, you know, in
the heterosexual world, and we've grown up with that and
we know it and we see it, and there's been
plenty of content out there that's very realistic, but you
haven't really seen a ton in this space.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So I imagine that was important for you.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, it was, and you know it's important for Jacob too.
I know we had a lot of talks about it,
like there's just not like we found even even a
lot of the romance like let's say queer romance that
had a happy ending. It was pretty chaste where it
was pretty like careful, and I know Jacob did not
(14:23):
want to do that with this. He really wanted to
go for it and like make it for grown ups
and make it you know, not a suggestion or make
it subtext or anything like that. Wasn't going to be
like two guys looking at each other longingly for six
episodes and then kissing at the end, you know, like
that's not what we wanted to make. So Yeah, it
was really exciting for me right from the get go.
That's that's what he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And you have some some moments in there too that
it's a balance between tender and hot and steamy, and
I mean it's real, it's realistic, and you write that
way too, so it very much honors what's written on
the pages.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, I tried to get really messy with funny. I mean,
I think sex is pretty funny, vulnerable and weird and
like there's all sorts of things about it that are
fun to write. And I've seen them all on the
screen too that I think Jacob brought them all onto
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's been really fun to watch. Okay,
let's have fun for a second. What is your favorite
sex scene in the book.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And Heat A rivalry? You know, I do like that
Vegas hotel scene. And I've said this before, that one
actually got cut by me originally because I thought maybe
it was too much or too indulgent, and my editor
was like, you know, it absolutely has to stay so
good for her.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Thank got your editor choice.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
YEA, Yeah, but I do think that's that's probably my
favorite one in Heat. A rivalry.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, did you get any pushback along the way when
bringing the show to life from the studio or executives
thinking like, oh, this could be a little too much.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I mean I didn't. From what Jacob tells me, he
didn't get a lot like he Actually, I think they
were quite enthusiastic about the sex scenes. So yeah, I
think there was just you know, I think there were
some notes about maybe pacing it a bit, like not
having them do everything in the first episode, so you know,
(16:24):
something's got changed to accommodate that, I think, But I
like the way that it was paced. Actually, I think
it was good.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's done really, really well. There's
so much done well in this series. I mean I
also have to give a shout out to some of
those female characters in episode three, specifically that like, we
just as gay men, we have great girls in our
lives and I love seeing that. Talk to me about
your thought process behind some of those.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean, it's really important for me to have
good female characters in these books. Obviously, these books focused
largely on men, and that can often mean that female
characters don't really get much of a role in them.
But I try to write pretty good female side characters
at least and have them be important. And it's like
(17:15):
important to the story and important to the characters, and
also not just like obstacles or I don't know people
that I mean, or villains in any way, like I
just yeah, I think it's important to surround the characters
with strong female characters. And yeah, definitely the first book,
(17:37):
Game Changer, had quite a few, mostly because Kip has
like a good group of friends, including several women, which
is good. And then with the books that are more
focused on just hockey players, it's it can be a
little trickier to get women into the books, but I
always try to get at least at least a few,
(17:59):
and so we have like Rose and Svetlana and Una
Shane's mom in Heat of Rivalry, and yeah, it's something
that's important to me. I think, you know, I don't
want to have a book that's just men, and I
don't want to have a show that's just men. So
I'm glad that I made those choices.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, there are some really great characters. It's fun to
watch them too, and I'm equally invested in their stories
and I'm like, oh, I hope you see a little
more with them, because it's yeah, it's really nice to see.
Is there an emotional risk you took with heated rivalry
that was hard for you, or like you took a
little while to get there on and this is going
to air after the series drops, so you can feel
(18:38):
free to say whatever you want to say, But yeah,
was there a certain section for you that was a
little more challenging to get through emotionally.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
For writing or for the show?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I guess both.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I think for writing, when you get into near the
end of the book, some of Ilia's pain starts to
get revealed in the source of it, and that was
probably some of the trickiest stuff to write, because you know,
the rest of the book is is pretty light in
a lot of ways. So it's like I didn't want
(19:10):
to really like, yeah, I didn't want this like anvil
of sadness to suddenly emerge in the book, but I
needed to like explain Ilia a little and add a
little bit of weight to it. Certainly in the Long Game,
there's a lot more of that in their sequel book.
But yeah, I would say, like, yeah, Ilia's mom in
(19:35):
particular and how she died is one of the It
was one of the trickiest things to write into a
scene that also had comedy in the same scene, like,
but I wanted to balance it and without you know,
making it seem like Ilia's mother's death wasn't a huge
deal because it's one of the most important finding things
(20:00):
about that character, and so that was tricky. And I
was also kind of like eager and anxious to see
that scene when he tells Shane about his mother on film,
and I think it's really beautiful the way that they
did it. But yeah, it was one that I was
a little bit nervous about because it's important.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
To me, and that must be such a sigh of
relief when you do get to see how it translates
and be like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
God, they did it justice right.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Do you ever cry when you're writing for those moments.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I don't because I'm not like a crier. I'm like, yeah,
it's not something that comes very easily to me. Yeah,
so I guess on the inside.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
On the inside, Hey, that counts. We're going to count
that too. I love that there's a scene that we
mentioned I think briefly earlier, and maybe we did it
yet it's the scene that we recently watched of them
in the club and all the things she said is playing, which,
by the way, I feel like Skyrocket it's a number
one in Stantley on the charts.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's yeah, that's crazy, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, it's a fire. It's on my gym playlist now.
So I downloaded it too. It was like, I need
this remix.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Oh my god. But that scene in the club.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Where they're both dancing and they're with women and it's
both heartbreaking but also sexy, and it's just this really
powerful scene. What does that scene mean to you? And
what do you think about how that turned out?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I love how it looked because, uh, yeah, I was
saying to a friend the other day, it's like that
kind of club scene is not unique, Like I knew
when I was writing it. It's not like we've never
seen a club scene kind of like that before. But
there's two people that are like kind of watching each
other and sort of like longing for each other. Like
like I've read those and I've seen those, But I
(21:45):
think what Jacob did with it is unique, and I
I love everything that he did with every with how
he filmed that. I love the song choice, I think
it was really Yeah, it was really sexy but also
really sad. Yeah. I love the when it goes to
the very end where they're both having their own sexual
(22:06):
experiences separately looking right at the camera. I was like,
that is, like I haven't seen that, So I thought
that was really memorable.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, and a pivotal moment in some ways, because it's
like they're they're coming face to face with their feelings, right,
and deciding like which way are they going to go?
Are they going to pretend that something's not happening or
are they going to honor what they're feeling?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yeah, right, so yeah, we'll see what they decide.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
We will see.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
No, I was joking with my husband, I'm like, you
have no idea. This scene like literally happened to me
growing up when I was coming out Like this is
that was like my seat like in a club with
the guy and the girl. It was I mean, you
just nail what so many people go through.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I saw someone say that, like, no Canadian has not
had their heart broken in a Montreal club.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Probably not exactly true, but.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
That's actually amazing funny point. Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm I'm really blown away by how you tap into
the experiences of the queer community and how you do
it in such an honest and fun and spicy kind
of way. And you know, when I think back to
some of the projects that have come out over the
years and that are in the queer space, there's so
many great female writers behind them.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, I think part of it is just like I mean,
you know a lot of romance readers and fiction readers
in general are women, Like that's largely the demographic that's
reading fiction. So they might just be from reading a
lot having that be informing what you're writing. Yeah, I
don't know. And I think for me, I just I've
(23:46):
kind of had a lifelong fascination with men and masculinity,
and I think these books are away for me to
kind of like really dig into that and explore it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's something that you know, many of us want more
of it. It's like we can't, we can't get enough
of it. They're so good, they really really are. And
I mean, I'm not shock season two has been announced.
It's I was waiting, right, I was waiting for them, like,
all right, come on, when when is when is the
announcement happening. What is one of the number one things
(24:23):
you want to see in season two that you're excited?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a show.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Man, you know What's funny. It's like I had these ideas.
I was sure of what was going to be season two,
but now there's like so much demand for more Scott
and Kip, which I wasn't expecting, and like all these
other things. I'm like, maybe season two is going to
be different from what I was expecting. But I mean,
it's not really my call, but but I wonder if
(24:47):
if you know, the fan feedback will will affect what happens.
But yeah, for sure. I mean, the the characters of
Troy Barrett and Harris Drover from role Model are two
characters I very much would like to see on screen.
Role Model is one of my favorite books that I've written,
(25:07):
so I'd really like to see that one brought to life.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I think there's a lot that you can do in
many directions, and that's probably what's so exciting about this all.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Do you have any idea when filming is going to start?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Uh No, I don't think anybody knows that yet.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
People, you know, people are like, let's get that going
we need.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Tomorrow would be nice. I mean, scripts have to be written,
you know, things like that.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, there's still a lot of things that have to happen,
but you know, I hope it'll be as quick as possible.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, all right, we'll see, we'll stay tuned on that.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I had to ask the amazing fan community what were
some of their burning questions. So I gathered some of
the top ones that I saw like multiple, multiple, multiple
people writing about, and there's about like seven I think
I gathered together. And the first one is, this is
probably no surprise to you, but do you have any
more plans for Shane and Ilia books?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
No? I mean I don't know. I'll say I don't
know because I've said no in the vast but i mean,
just like generally, like I do like writing like little
short stories and things about them, and I'm sure I
will do that. I can't really shake those guys out
(26:25):
of my brain, so you know, it's and this past
year I've been really immersed in them. So yeah, I mean,
if I get an idea for a story, i'll write it.
You know, if that story is a book, then maybe
it's a book. But for now, I don't have that idea, and.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Based off the second book, you feel kind of satisfyed
with how it all wrapped up.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, I do know that I've left it
in a place where people could want more, and I
do understand that, and you know, part of me wants
more as well. But it would have to be good.
Like I wouldn't want to write it just just because
the demand is there. I'd have to have a really
solid idea.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah. Yeah, well that's respectable.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
You want to put out good content, so I think
that matters more than just pumping out volumes of content
just for the sake of it, you know. Yeah, all right,
fair enough, let's see what else we have. Okay, this
you kind of just mentioned this, but a lot of
people wanted to know if there'll be a Kip and
Scott spin off.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Of the show. That's not my call, but I mean
i'd watch it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I would watch it too. A lot of people would
watch it. People love their relationship. What do you love
about their dynamic together?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I like, Well, the reason why I enjoyed writing it
was was kind of like the this, Like you take
the classic like rich guy, poor guy thing, and it
seems like you know this total dream like kind of
penthouse type apartment in Manhattan and like that Kip now
it gets to live in and have this famous boyfriend,
but like he's kind of trapped there. It's like not
(28:01):
actually a dream. It sort of becomes a nightmare. Even
though he's quite happy with Scott. It's like he gets
lonelier and lonelier I think in the book too, because
the book's much longer than the episode is. It's like
you see kept getting more and more closed off from
his friends and family and and yeah, and how that
changes him. So I enjoyed like just kind of playing
(28:22):
with that trope of like the kind of millionaire romance. Like.
But what I like about them as a couple is
I think they're just they just like they're just good
for each other. Like I think they just give each
other what they each need. And yeah, and ultimately what
(28:47):
Kip gives Scott is like community and he gets to
like be himself with friends around him who accept him
for who he is, which he wasn't really getting in
from hockey. So I like that. Yeah, there's there's for
people who are looking for more Scott and Kip. The
fourth book in the series, Common Goal, has quite a
(29:09):
bit of them and kind of I'm not gonna say,
wraps up their story, but gives them a nice kind
of checks back in with them and gives you a
little more of a happy ending for them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, good call shouting that out too, because that's so true.
I don't know if everybody knows that. So that's another
great place.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
That's kind of the Scott and Kip sequel.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great place to find more content
on them.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Okay, cool, Another huge question.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Huge just maybe like the number one question I saw
was people are wondering if Shane is a neurodivergent character.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yeah, if Shane's autistic, he doesn't know that, and he
might not ever know that, but he is. I think
it's realistic that someone with his life might not not
only not know it, but not even think to look
into it, at least not at this stage. But yeah,
(30:03):
that's how he's been written. Jacob certainly picked up on
that right away. I think Hudson picked up right up
on that right away. So I think we're all we're
all on board with this idea. But yeah, definitely that
is Yeah, that is true, and I think it's like
more clear on the show than it is in the
(30:24):
first book. I would say, I think they did a
good job of showing it.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I agree with you for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I think that's going to answer a lot of questions
from many people. I'm telling you that came in so much, Okay,
a couple more. A lot of people want.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
To know who Shane's crushes from Friday Night Lights.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Oh my god. Yeah, I've been asked that over the years.
I really wasn't thinking of anyone specific. There's a lot
to choose from. That's why I picked that show because
there was so many people it could be, so I
don't know if I want to confirm one. So just
pick your favorite.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Pick your favorite. We like that.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Choose your own option. That's great. Will Hudson and Connor
possibly do the audiobook for Heated Rivalry and re record it?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I mean I'd like that. That's I don't know. I
mean a lot of things would have to happen for
that to happen, but that would be amazing and I'm
sure people would really enjoy the You're all in, Yeah,
if they want to do it. I mean, you know,
there's a lot of pieces, but yeah, it'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Well that's the fan portion of the of the conversation,
so thank you for that. You were very honest and
open about all the questions. I'm like, I don't know
if it's gonna answer all these We'll see, we'll see
my best. Yes, that was awesome. Well, as we begin
to wrap up, I've told you repeatedly how impressed I
am with your talent and your mind, and that's a
big reason why I wanted to have you on. I
have a lot of you know, actors and singers and
(31:53):
artists on this show, and then I invite some authors
on who I really just respect and think have put
something in the world that really matters and says something
that we're all better off having. So I was like,
I've got to get you on the show and hear
from you directly, because you deserve the spotlight, you deserve
everything that's coming your way right now. And one of
(32:14):
the questions I ask on this show at the end,
I wrap up every conversation with which is based on
the title of the show, with the question of what
is one thing you've never said before?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And it was born.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Because I cover a lot of movie premieres and you know,
junkets and one on ones at these film premieres, which
gives you two minutes with somebody, and it's not real conversation,
and half the time everyone's answering the same questions over
and over, and I'm like, God, I want to do
a long format show where people can come on and
just say whatever they want and then at the end
say something They don't always get a chance to say
whatever that means to them. So the final question is,
(32:45):
what is one thing that you've never said before that
you want to share today?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Oh boy, I think the thing that I haven't said before,
I'm going to say it carefully, is that I think
I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of
talk online about my own sexuality and that of members
(33:11):
of my family as well, and some stuff stated as
fact and some stuff is speculated. And I've never said
I don't talk publicly about my personal life for the
sake of my family and my children and you know, privacy.
But the thing I haven't said that I think is
important to me is that I don't think it ultimately
(33:33):
matters because what I'm writing is I'm not a man,
and I'm not a gay man, and I'm not a
bisexual man, so that's who I'm writing about. So I
don't think that the people that I am attracted to
at this stage of my life gives me like any
kind of credibility to write about gay men or bisexual men.
(33:57):
So as much as I know people want to know,
I don't think it ultimately matters. And yeah, I would
not ever like try to use my sexuality as a
way of being like, see, I have the right to
write these books, because I don't think that that that's
how it works. I think it's like you have to
(34:19):
just be sensitive and thoughtful when you approach these books
whatever you're writing. And I don't know that's a complicated
thing now I'm saying way too much, but yeah, basically
those are the thoughts I've had the last few weeks
when suddenly these kinds of questions are being asked about me.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, I think that's really valid. And I think that's
an important point too, because I think everybody has the
ability to create the art that they want and they
can write or you know, sing or direct or do
whatever they want, I mean, tell any type of story
they want. So that's the freedom everybody has. It doesn't
matter at the end of the day, who you're sleeping
(34:56):
with or who you're not sleeping with. So I think
there's become such a focus on that, especially with actors
and artists, and it's like, you know, you got to
separate the work from the human and it's a different thing.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, And I think, yeah, criticize the work, not as
criticize the person making it if they deserve it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
But yeah, the work first. Yeah, one hundred percent. Man,
what like, what a lesson you've had to kind of
learn and face slightly being thrown into the popularity of
this what this book series has become with the show,
You're like, suddenly people are wondering about my life.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
No, it's definitely weird because authors, generally we don't like
to be looked at. So yeah, yeah different.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Oh well, I am super grateful you came on to
hang out today. I like I said, I'm so proud
to put my name behind having someone on from the
show like yourself, who is doing so much good for
the world with This is the World. Because I live
in New York City, it's a very different experience as
a gay man living in New York City than half
(35:57):
the country's out there, right, Yeah, so the fact that
this exists is.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
A really, really, really big deal.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And I think you're writing I've gone back and and
really I haven't read all the books. I'm reading some
now on my kindle at night, and I just I
love the world of escapism you create. So it's really
been a pleasure getting to learn more about you and
talk today and dive into more of your work. Well,
thank you, yeah, thank you so much for hanging out.
I can't wait to see what comes next from you.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Season two. Here we go, it will be ready in
like three months. We're ready.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, oh yeah, be ready for January.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Perfect, perfect, We can't wait. Well, thank you so much
for hanging out.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Pivlsi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(37:01):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Didario.
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,
Tommy di Dario. If you haven't been watching Heated Rivalry,
then you are missing out. You're missing out. It is
so good and the season finale just aired and the
world is morning. Not having any new episodes of the
show to watch is very upsetting. But to tie us
over until the season two comes out, I have the
(00:24):
brilliant brain behind Heated Rivalry on my show today. Rachel
Reid is the New York Times best selling author of
the Game Changer's Hockey Romance series, as well as the
standalone hockey romance novels Time to Shine and The Shots
You Take. Without her, we would have no Heated Rivalry
TV show, no Ilia, no Shane, no steamy Slowburn love story.
(00:44):
And today we are diving into her brain to hear
more about her process and answer all of your burning questions.
So let's see if today we can get Rachel to
say something that she has never said before.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Rachel, it is so good to see you. How are
you today?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm great.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I feel like you've been on a whirlwind. Are you sleeping,
are you eating? Are you okay?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Some of those things sometimes yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, it's been wild for you, I imagine it never
feels totally normal, Like where are you with.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It all right now?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It still doesn't feel real. I mean every week when
I see a new episode, I'm like, I can't believe
I'm watching it. I can't believe every social media post
I see, every headline, every thing. I don't know, it's
just none of it seems real.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I mean, when you're writing a book in a whole
series of course, is this something that you hope one
day will happen or it's just kind of like, well
if it does, cool, but that's not really the endgame.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah. For me, I didn't think it was a possibility
at all. Like I just thought the kinds of books
I write just weren't really like filmable, they were anything
anybody would consider filming. So it wasn't really something. I mean,
it's something you might like dream about, but I don't
think I could have dreamed what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
No, it's cool to see the world in a place
where this kind of content is welcomed and wanted and
so popular. I mean, I growing up in and have
a ton of things like this to watch, so it's
super cool that this is out there and people are
responding in such a big way. And by the way,
all different walks of life are loving this, Like I
have so many friends from all different walks who are like,
it's really good.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, my dad's watching it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's amazing. That's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Well, I'm so interested in your mind and your creativity
and how things came to fruition. So we have a
lot to get to and I guess to start, I mean,
let's go from the beginning, like what or who inspire
the characters of Ilia and Shane For you.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I think it was just like I mean, I've been
a hockey fan my whole life, so I mean that
starts in the eighties through the nineties. There are just
a lot of hockey players like over the years that
I guess the Alien Shame would be influenced by or like,
you know, kind of an amalgam of a bunch of players,
but also like just a bunch of fictional characters, and
(03:12):
you know, just in general, like they're inspired by some
of my favorite kind of like enemies to lovers type
stories or like forbidden romance type stories, whether that's books
or movies or anything like that. And then Ili is
obviously based on some of the more flashy, cocky European
hockey players that have existed over the years, and Chain's
(03:35):
more of like the boy scout, good boy, captain Canadian boy,
not a ton of fun kind of player, which you
know there have been tons of those over the years.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
They're come into life in such vibrant ways, and they're
so distinct and so different in many ways, which it's
fun to watch to see where their stories are going.
And you know, the books your baby, right, I imagine
you're protective of it, and this series and all of
the books are personal to you. You poured a lot
of love into them, and you created them and have
an idea of where they should go, where you want
(04:07):
them to go if more installments are coming, all of that.
So to release that and put this into the world
as a show is a big deal. And to find
your characters is a big deal. So what made you say,
you know what, Hudson is great for this role and
Connor is great for this role.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Like what was that moment for you? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I think when I first was on set and I
saw them acting in scenes and I was like, Yeah,
they're They're perfect. This is exactly what I pictured in
my head. So it was a great feeling to see
them the characters really come to life. I mean, I
don't have to tell people how great a job Connor
and Hudson are doing.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah, they're phenomenal. Did you have any say in
the casting process?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Not really, Like I was kept in the loop, and
Jacob was very excited about both of them and very
excited about their chemistry. Read so he told me, you
know all about them, hes like the movie we found Arlia, Well,
I think we had Connor first, and then he told
me like later that we'd found Shane, and just like, yeah,
really really exciting. Right away, I could tell how how
(05:12):
excited Jacob was because we knew it was really like,
it was so important to find the right actress for
these characters because otherwise the whole thing kind of fell
apart because it's it's so character driven and fans already
have such a clear idea of what these characters should
look and sound like. And yeah, I really think, I
really think Jacob nailed it by those two guys.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It's so wild to me that you don't you know,
get final approvals or a big say, because that's a
lot of trust to put in a team.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, it is, But I never really felt nervous about
it because Jacob just like cared so much about getting
this right, like right from the very first time I
talked to him. He had so much respect for the
books and the characters, and I just trusted it, and
I think I was right to do so.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, oh, I would say so for sure.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So based on all of that, was there a moment
on set that you remember where you were watching them
together or them individually, where you thought, oh, like, yeah,
we totally made the right call based on what you
were seeing and what they were performing.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean I think everything I saw them do. Really,
I don't know if I saw them. I saw them
in a scene together for the first time at the
very end of the first day that I was on set,
and it was the first time, yeah, that I saw
them together. And it was just a very short scene.
I can't say what it is because it hasn't happened yet,
(06:39):
it hasn't been in an episode, it's not an episode
that's been out yet. But yeah, it was just a
really short, really sweet scene and I was blown away
by how how much it just was what was in
my head and the way they sounded, and the like
the way they looked at each other, just everything. It
was very romantic and very sweet, and I was I
was really excited.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh my god, I can't now. I'm trying to think
what that could be and I can't wait for it.
Is there a scene that you wrote in the books
that you hold extra close? I know, I mean, so
much of what you write is so special, But is
there a scene that you're like, Oh my god, that
one's like a little extra special for me.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah. Again, there's one coming up in this week's episode
that's definitely that. So, but if I was going to
talk about one that people have already seen, I mean,
the tuna melt scene was important and that that happened
in last week's episode, so it was really nice to
see that brought to life. It's it's kind of a
(07:35):
complicated scene because it's it's sweet and romantic, but then
takes a bad turn and all of that has to
make sense, and I think they did a really great
job of it. So I know fans were looking forward
to that one too.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Why do you think he freaked out at the end
of the same.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I think he freaked out because it suddenly started to
feel a little bit like a relationship, even though that
does seem like what Shane has wanted all along, I
think just faced with it, he's just not ready to
take that risk. It's it would be a pretty big risk,
and I think Shane's still holding on to hope that
(08:12):
he can like find a girl and not have to
like have this whole extremely difficult affair with his rival player.
I think he's just hoping for something a little easier,
but obviously that's not what's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Then, well, that's a moment too that I feel like
so many of us have gone through and can relate to.
And there's a lot of moments where I'm like, oh
my god, that like that literally happens to me. And
we'll talk about one of those in a bit. But
that's what's so brilliant about this. It is so relatable
in many many ways, and you feel I mean, I
can't speak for everybody, but I certainly have felt a
(08:51):
lot of the things these characters are feeling as I
watch it, which is really really cool. Is there a
scene that either has aired or from the books that
you wrote purely for your own satisfaction. I'm writing this
one for me.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
There's a short and silly sex scene that takes place
near the end of the book that I'd never in
a million years would have expected to make it onto
the show, but.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It did.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So I'm really excited about that because that one really
was just indulgent for me, and it will be in
the final episode.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Okay, Oh, we can't wait for that one.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And I think people will know what I'm talking about
when they see it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I
already have an ideas. And the fans are so amazing
and energized and excited about this show, which is so
cool and what you see on social and every single day,
it's everywhere and people are catching on. It's very much
a word of mouth thing, and I think that's a
huge part of the popularity.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And they're passionate. They're very passionate.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is there a scene that you think readers or watches
of the show are super opinionated about or maybe would
debate a little bit about.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, I think. I mean, there's always a debate about
you know, who's treating who badly? Like, Yeah, should Shane
have run away at the end of that tune of
Melt scene? Should Ilia have been friendlier to Shane at
the end of the Vegas Hotel room scene?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
These are things that fans have been talking about for years,
and I feel like it's there's so many more people
talking about them now after watching the show. But yeah,
the two characters definitely take turns doing and saying the
wrong thing. But I'm looking forward to hearing what people
have to say about the last two episodes. I think
(10:30):
they're the best two episodes so but I also think
they have a lot of important scenes in them that
fans have been very opinionated about over the years. So yeah,
I'm excited to see what people think.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, I mean, those moments of conflict are part of
the reason why the show is so captivating, and you
wonder where it's gonna go. As as a writer, as
an author, do you plan out all of those moments?
Are they very deliberate or do you discover some along
the way as you're writing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, I don't plan much. I pretty much just start
with characters and kind of let them tell me the story. Yeah,
I kind of get taken on a journey as I'm writing,
So ideas often just kind of pop into my head
live while I'm writing, and I just kind of see
where they go. Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So you're not like outlining everything ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, I've tried that, and sometimes my publisher asked for
that in advance, but usually what I end up writing
is nothing like what I sent them, So I usually write,
write out a synopsis, and then never look at it again.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's so cool. That is so cool to be so
in the moment with what you're creating. So how long
does that all take you to create and write?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
How long does each book take?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Oh? Most of a year. I'm pretty slow and I
rewrite scenes over and over again usually, So yeah, I
would say, you know, eight months probably at least.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's so cool. That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
What conversation do you hope people are having about this story?
A lot of people are talking about it, as you know,
So what do you I hope the conversations are.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I mean, I've been hearing really positive ones, like one
of them is about you know, how Romance might get
filmed from now on, which I think is really exciting
that I think Jacob has shown that you can film
a high heat romance and not lose any of the
heat and not lose any of the romance. And I
think it's really brave that he did this, and I
(12:24):
hope it changes the way that romance gets filmed. I
also think there's been a lot of conversation about I
don't know, just like more like respecting romance as a
genre which often gets dismissed. I've heard from a lot
of people that said that they've never read Romance and
now they're interested in reading it because they're so invested
(12:46):
in this show, and it's like they enjoy the tension
and all the things that make people love romance. So
I like, yeah, hearing people talking about romance with a
little more in us in respect maybe as a literary genre.
I mean, I hope the biggest thing I hope people
are talking about is, you know, obviously, the stories that
(13:08):
are joyful, the queer stories that are joyful, need to
be on screen way way more often. And I think
Jacob showed that if you respect the IP and you
respect the fans and the original creator of something, you're
going to get a better final product as well. So
I think there's like a lot of things that people
are talking about that are really exciting all at once.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It is refreshing to see a show like this depicting
love and romance and sex in a way that is realistic.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yes, yeah for grown ups.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, we see so much of that, you know, in
the heterosexual world, and we've grown up with that and
we know it and we see it, and there's been
plenty of content out there that's very realistic, but you
haven't really seen a ton in this space.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So I imagine that was important for you.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, it was, and you know it's important for Jacob too.
I know we had a lot of talks about it,
like there's just not like we found even even a
lot of the romance like let's say queer romance that
had a happy ending. It was pretty chaste where it
was pretty like careful, and I know Jacob did not
(14:23):
want to do that with this. He really wanted to
go for it and like make it for grown ups
and make it you know, not a suggestion or make
it subtext or anything like that. Wasn't going to be
like two guys looking at each other longingly for six
episodes and then kissing at the end, you know, like
that's not what we wanted to make. So Yeah, it
was really exciting for me right from the get go.
That's that's what he wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And you have some some moments in there too that
it's a balance between tender and hot and steamy, and
I mean it's real, it's realistic, and you write that
way too, so it very much honors what's written on
the pages.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, I tried to get really messy with funny. I mean,
I think sex is pretty funny, vulnerable and weird and
like there's all sorts of things about it that are
fun to write. And I've seen them all on the
screen too that I think Jacob brought them all onto
the show.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's been really fun to watch. Okay,
let's have fun for a second. What is your favorite
sex scene in the book.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And Heat A rivalry? You know, I do like that
Vegas hotel scene. And I've said this before, that one
actually got cut by me originally because I thought maybe
it was too much or too indulgent, and my editor
was like, you know, it absolutely has to stay so
good for her.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Thank got your editor choice.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
YEA, Yeah, but I do think that's that's probably my
favorite one in Heat. A rivalry.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, did you get any pushback along the way when
bringing the show to life from the studio or executives
thinking like, oh, this could be a little too much.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I mean I didn't. From what Jacob tells me, he
didn't get a lot like he Actually, I think they
were quite enthusiastic about the sex scenes. So yeah, I
think there was just you know, I think there were
some notes about maybe pacing it a bit, like not
having them do everything in the first episode, so you know,
(16:24):
something's got changed to accommodate that, I think, But I
like the way that it was paced. Actually, I think
it was good.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's done really, really well. There's
so much done well in this series. I mean I
also have to give a shout out to some of
those female characters in episode three, specifically that like, we
just as gay men, we have great girls in our
lives and I love seeing that. Talk to me about
your thought process behind some of those.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean, it's really important for me to have
good female characters in these books. Obviously, these books focused
largely on men, and that can often mean that female
characters don't really get much of a role in them.
But I try to write pretty good female side characters
at least and have them be important. And it's like
(17:15):
important to the story and important to the characters, and
also not just like obstacles or I don't know people
that I mean, or villains in any way, like I
just yeah, I think it's important to surround the characters
with strong female characters. And yeah, definitely the first book,
(17:37):
Game Changer, had quite a few, mostly because Kip has
like a good group of friends, including several women, which
is good. And then with the books that are more
focused on just hockey players, it's it can be a
little trickier to get women into the books, but I
always try to get at least at least a few,
(17:59):
and so we have like Rose and Svetlana and Una
Shane's mom in Heat of Rivalry, and yeah, it's something
that's important to me. I think, you know, I don't
want to have a book that's just men, and I
don't want to have a show that's just men. So
I'm glad that I made those choices.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, there are some really great characters. It's fun to
watch them too, and I'm equally invested in their stories
and I'm like, oh, I hope you see a little
more with them, because it's yeah, it's really nice to see.
Is there an emotional risk you took with heated rivalry
that was hard for you, or like you took a
little while to get there on and this is going
to air after the series drops, so you can feel
(18:38):
free to say whatever you want to say, But yeah,
was there a certain section for you that was a
little more challenging to get through emotionally.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
For writing or for the show?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I guess both.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I think for writing, when you get into near the
end of the book, some of Ilia's pain starts to
get revealed in the source of it, and that was
probably some of the trickiest stuff to write, because you know,
the rest of the book is is pretty light in
a lot of ways. So it's like I didn't want
(19:10):
to really like, yeah, I didn't want this like anvil
of sadness to suddenly emerge in the book, but I
needed to like explain Ilia a little and add a
little bit of weight to it. Certainly in the Long Game,
there's a lot more of that in their sequel book.
But yeah, I would say, like, yeah, Ilia's mom in
(19:35):
particular and how she died is one of the It
was one of the trickiest things to write into a
scene that also had comedy in the same scene, like,
but I wanted to balance it and without you know,
making it seem like Ilia's mother's death wasn't a huge
deal because it's one of the most important finding things
(20:00):
about that character, and so that was tricky. And I
was also kind of like eager and anxious to see
that scene when he tells Shane about his mother on film,
and I think it's really beautiful the way that they
did it. But yeah, it was one that I was
a little bit nervous about because it's important.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
To me, and that must be such a sigh of
relief when you do get to see how it translates
and be like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
God, they did it justice right.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Do you ever cry when you're writing for those moments.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I don't because I'm not like a crier. I'm like, yeah,
it's not something that comes very easily to me. Yeah,
so I guess on the inside.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
On the inside, Hey, that counts. We're going to count
that too. I love that there's a scene that we
mentioned I think briefly earlier, and maybe we did it
yet it's the scene that we recently watched of them
in the club and all the things she said is playing, which,
by the way, I feel like Skyrocket it's a number
one in Stantley on the charts.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's yeah, that's crazy, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, it's a fire. It's on my gym playlist now.
So I downloaded it too. It was like, I need
this remix.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Oh my god. But that scene in the club.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Where they're both dancing and they're with women and it's
both heartbreaking but also sexy, and it's just this really
powerful scene. What does that scene mean to you? And
what do you think about how that turned out?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I love how it looked because, uh, yeah, I was
saying to a friend the other day, it's like that
kind of club scene is not unique, Like I knew
when I was writing it. It's not like we've never
seen a club scene kind of like that before. But
there's two people that are like kind of watching each
other and sort of like longing for each other. Like
like I've read those and I've seen those, But I
(21:45):
think what Jacob did with it is unique, and I
I love everything that he did with every with how
he filmed that. I love the song choice, I think
it was really Yeah, it was really sexy but also
really sad. Yeah. I love the when it goes to
the very end where they're both having their own sexual
(22:06):
experiences separately looking right at the camera. I was like,
that is, like I haven't seen that, So I thought
that was really memorable.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, and a pivotal moment in some ways, because it's
like they're they're coming face to face with their feelings, right,
and deciding like which way are they going to go?
Are they going to pretend that something's not happening or
are they going to honor what they're feeling?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yeah, right, so yeah, we'll see what they decide.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
We will see.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
No, I was joking with my husband, I'm like, you
have no idea. This scene like literally happened to me
growing up when I was coming out Like this is
that was like my seat like in a club with
the guy and the girl. It was I mean, you
just nail what so many people go through.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I saw someone say that, like, no Canadian has not
had their heart broken in a Montreal club.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Probably not exactly true, but.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
That's actually amazing funny point. Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm I'm really blown away by how you tap into
the experiences of the queer community and how you do
it in such an honest and fun and spicy kind
of way. And you know, when I think back to
some of the projects that have come out over the
years and that are in the queer space, there's so
many great female writers behind them.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, I think part of it is just like I mean,
you know a lot of romance readers and fiction readers
in general are women, Like that's largely the demographic that's
reading fiction. So they might just be from reading a
lot having that be informing what you're writing. Yeah, I
don't know. And I think for me, I just I've
(23:46):
kind of had a lifelong fascination with men and masculinity,
and I think these books are away for me to
kind of like really dig into that and explore it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's something that you know, many of us want more
of it. It's like we can't, we can't get enough
of it. They're so good, they really really are. And
I mean, I'm not shock season two has been announced.
It's I was waiting, right, I was waiting for them, like,
all right, come on, when when is when is the
announcement happening. What is one of the number one things
(24:23):
you want to see in season two that you're excited?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's a show.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Man, you know What's funny. It's like I had these ideas.
I was sure of what was going to be season two,
but now there's like so much demand for more Scott
and Kip, which I wasn't expecting, and like all these
other things. I'm like, maybe season two is going to
be different from what I was expecting. But I mean,
it's not really my call, but but I wonder if
(24:47):
if you know, the fan feedback will will affect what happens.
But yeah, for sure. I mean, the the characters of
Troy Barrett and Harris Drover from role Model are two
characters I very much would like to see on screen.
Role Model is one of my favorite books that I've written,
(25:07):
so I'd really like to see that one brought to life.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I think there's a lot that you can do in
many directions, and that's probably what's so exciting about this all.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Do you have any idea when filming is going to start?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Uh No, I don't think anybody knows that yet.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
People, you know, people are like, let's get that going
we need.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Tomorrow would be nice. I mean, scripts have to be written,
you know, things like that.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yeah, there's still a lot of things that have to happen,
but you know, I hope it'll be as quick as possible.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, yeah, all right, we'll see, we'll stay tuned on that.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I had to ask the amazing fan community what were
some of their burning questions. So I gathered some of
the top ones that I saw like multiple, multiple, multiple
people writing about, and there's about like seven I think
I gathered together. And the first one is, this is
probably no surprise to you, but do you have any
more plans for Shane and Ilia books?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
No? I mean I don't know. I'll say I don't
know because I've said no in the vast but i mean,
just like generally, like I do like writing like little
short stories and things about them, and I'm sure I
will do that. I can't really shake those guys out
(26:25):
of my brain, so you know, it's and this past
year I've been really immersed in them. So yeah, I mean,
if I get an idea for a story, i'll write it.
You know, if that story is a book, then maybe
it's a book. But for now, I don't have that idea, and.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Based off the second book, you feel kind of satisfyed
with how it all wrapped up.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, I do know that I've left it
in a place where people could want more, and I
do understand that, and you know, part of me wants
more as well. But it would have to be good.
Like I wouldn't want to write it just just because
the demand is there. I'd have to have a really
solid idea.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah. Yeah, well that's respectable.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
You want to put out good content, so I think
that matters more than just pumping out volumes of content
just for the sake of it, you know. Yeah, all right,
fair enough, let's see what else we have. Okay, this
you kind of just mentioned this, but a lot of
people wanted to know if there'll be a Kip and
Scott spin off.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Of the show. That's not my call, but I mean
i'd watch it.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I would watch it too. A lot of people would
watch it. People love their relationship. What do you love
about their dynamic together?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I like, Well, the reason why I enjoyed writing it
was was kind of like the this, Like you take
the classic like rich guy, poor guy thing, and it
seems like you know this total dream like kind of
penthouse type apartment in Manhattan and like that Kip now
it gets to live in and have this famous boyfriend,
but like he's kind of trapped there. It's like not
(28:01):
actually a dream. It sort of becomes a nightmare. Even
though he's quite happy with Scott. It's like he gets
lonelier and lonelier I think in the book too, because
the book's much longer than the episode is. It's like
you see kept getting more and more closed off from
his friends and family and and yeah, and how that
changes him. So I enjoyed like just kind of playing
(28:22):
with that trope of like the kind of millionaire romance. Like.
But what I like about them as a couple is
I think they're just they just like they're just good
for each other. Like I think they just give each
other what they each need. And yeah, and ultimately what
(28:47):
Kip gives Scott is like community and he gets to
like be himself with friends around him who accept him
for who he is, which he wasn't really getting in
from hockey. So I like that. Yeah, there's there's for
people who are looking for more Scott and Kip. The
fourth book in the series, Common Goal, has quite a
(29:09):
bit of them and kind of I'm not gonna say,
wraps up their story, but gives them a nice kind
of checks back in with them and gives you a
little more of a happy ending for them. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, good call shouting that out too, because that's so true.
I don't know if everybody knows that. So that's another
great place.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
That's kind of the Scott and Kip sequel.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great place to find more content
on them.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Okay, cool, Another huge question.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Huge just maybe like the number one question I saw
was people are wondering if Shane is a neurodivergent character.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Yeah, if Shane's autistic, he doesn't know that, and he
might not ever know that, but he is. I think
it's realistic that someone with his life might not not
only not know it, but not even think to look
into it, at least not at this stage. But yeah,
(30:03):
that's how he's been written. Jacob certainly picked up on
that right away. I think Hudson picked up right up
on that right away. So I think we're all we're
all on board with this idea. But yeah, definitely that
is Yeah, that is true, and I think it's like
more clear on the show than it is in the
(30:24):
first book. I would say, I think they did a
good job of showing it.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I agree with you for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I think that's going to answer a lot of questions
from many people. I'm telling you that came in so much, Okay,
a couple more. A lot of people want.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
To know who Shane's crushes from Friday Night Lights.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Oh my god. Yeah, I've been asked that over the years.
I really wasn't thinking of anyone specific. There's a lot
to choose from. That's why I picked that show because
there was so many people it could be, so I
don't know if I want to confirm one. So just
pick your favorite.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Pick your favorite. We like that.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Choose your own option. That's great. Will Hudson and Connor
possibly do the audiobook for Heated Rivalry and re record it?
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I mean I'd like that. That's I don't know. I
mean a lot of things would have to happen for
that to happen, but that would be amazing and I'm
sure people would really enjoy the You're all in, Yeah,
if they want to do it. I mean, you know,
there's a lot of pieces, but yeah, it'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Well that's the fan portion of the of the conversation,
so thank you for that. You were very honest and
open about all the questions. I'm like, I don't know
if it's gonna answer all these We'll see, we'll see
my best. Yes, that was awesome. Well, as we begin
to wrap up, I've told you repeatedly how impressed I
am with your talent and your mind, and that's a
big reason why I wanted to have you on. I
have a lot of you know, actors and singers and
(31:53):
artists on this show, and then I invite some authors
on who I really just respect and think have put
something in the world that really matters and says something
that we're all better off having. So I was like,
I've got to get you on the show and hear
from you directly, because you deserve the spotlight, you deserve
everything that's coming your way right now. And one of
(32:14):
the questions I ask on this show at the end,
I wrap up every conversation with which is based on
the title of the show, with the question of what
is one thing you've never said before?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And it was born.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Because I cover a lot of movie premieres and you know,
junkets and one on ones at these film premieres, which
gives you two minutes with somebody, and it's not real conversation,
and half the time everyone's answering the same questions over
and over, and I'm like, God, I want to do
a long format show where people can come on and
just say whatever they want and then at the end
say something They don't always get a chance to say
whatever that means to them. So the final question is,
(32:45):
what is one thing that you've never said before that
you want to share today?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Oh boy, I think the thing that I haven't said before,
I'm going to say it carefully, is that I think
I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of
talk online about my own sexuality and that of members
(33:11):
of my family as well, and some stuff stated as
fact and some stuff is speculated. And I've never said
I don't talk publicly about my personal life for the
sake of my family and my children and you know, privacy.
But the thing I haven't said that I think is
important to me is that I don't think it ultimately
(33:33):
matters because what I'm writing is I'm not a man,
and I'm not a gay man, and I'm not a
bisexual man, so that's who I'm writing about. So I
don't think that the people that I am attracted to
at this stage of my life gives me like any
kind of credibility to write about gay men or bisexual men.
(33:57):
So as much as I know people want to know,
I don't think it ultimately matters. And yeah, I would
not ever like try to use my sexuality as a
way of being like, see, I have the right to
write these books, because I don't think that that that's
how it works. I think it's like you have to
(34:19):
just be sensitive and thoughtful when you approach these books
whatever you're writing. And I don't know that's a complicated
thing now I'm saying way too much, but yeah, basically
those are the thoughts I've had the last few weeks
when suddenly these kinds of questions are being asked about me.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, I think that's really valid. And I think that's
an important point too, because I think everybody has the
ability to create the art that they want and they
can write or you know, sing or direct or do
whatever they want, I mean, tell any type of story
they want. So that's the freedom everybody has. It doesn't
matter at the end of the day, who you're sleeping
(34:56):
with or who you're not sleeping with. So I think
there's become such a focus on that, especially with actors
and artists, and it's like, you know, you got to
separate the work from the human and it's a different thing.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah, And I think, yeah, criticize the work, not as
criticize the person making it if they deserve it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
But yeah, the work first. Yeah, one hundred percent. Man,
what like, what a lesson you've had to kind of
learn and face slightly being thrown into the popularity of
this what this book series has become with the show,
You're like, suddenly people are wondering about my life.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
No, it's definitely weird because authors, generally we don't like
to be looked at. So yeah, yeah different.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Oh well, I am super grateful you came on to
hang out today. I like I said, I'm so proud
to put my name behind having someone on from the
show like yourself, who is doing so much good for
the world with This is the World. Because I live
in New York City, it's a very different experience as
a gay man living in New York City than half
(35:57):
the country's out there, right, Yeah, so the fact that
this exists is.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
A really, really, really big deal.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
And I think you're writing I've gone back and and
really I haven't read all the books. I'm reading some
now on my kindle at night, and I just I
love the world of escapism you create. So it's really
been a pleasure getting to learn more about you and
talk today and dive into more of your work. Well,
thank you, yeah, thank you so much for hanging out.
I can't wait to see what comes next from you.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Season two. Here we go, it will be ready in
like three months. We're ready.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yeah, oh yeah, be ready for January.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Perfect, perfect, We can't wait. Well, thank you so much
for hanging out.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Pivlsi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(37:01):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Didario.
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