November 13, 2024 • 39 mins
On this week's episode of In Service Of, we are joined by rising jazz star Samara Joy. The Grammy Best New Artist winner in 2023, who was just announced as a double nominee for the 2025 Grammy Awards, takes us on a deep dive into the making of her wonderful new album, 'Portrait.' She also talks Philly music, poetry and much more. Join us for this very enjoyable talk with Joy.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, this is Steve Balton.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, I'm Sage Bava and this is in Service of
a new podcast dedicated to speaking with artists and change
makers on how being in service influences their.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Work and their creative process.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We're excited to share this conversation with the incredible Samara Joy,
a multi Grammy Award winning jazz singer who just co
produced an album called Portraits, coming out on Verb Records.
She is a lyricist, a composer, a bandleader, and just
a timeless soul with the most wonderful, warm voice. Here
(00:43):
is our conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We've been asking everyone of late, and I'm surprised by
how much no one talks about this. Every time I
ask someone, they're like, wow, And I don't know why
the hell no one talks about this. But we've been
asking everyone, how do you get back? What does it
mean to you? And how does it influenced your music?
And because so many people grew up with it, it's
(01:17):
a huge part of their music, but no one ever
talks about it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Mm hmmm, yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Well, I guess I try to do it in different ways,
and more recently I've been working on and being mindful
of giving back to my family, and I think the
way that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I do it not only is by.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
I guess, opportunity, whether it be like taking them on
tour with me and kind of highlighting them as part
of my inspiration and giving them the platform to do
what they love as well, since they inspired me to
do what I love, but also with my time, you know,
making time when I'm home, because it's kind of it's
been rare the past couple of years to be home
(02:02):
and actually spending quality time with them. So the past
couple of weeks, I made it a priority to visit
with my grandfather.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
He's ninety four years old.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
And just sit with him and watch Perry Mason and
talk with him and you know, do things that I
used to do when I was growing up all the time.
But now that you know, things have been going so well,
that's a part of things that that that's a part
of life that I guess is easy to neglect because
you say, you're so busy for this and that. But
(02:34):
I can take an hour train from New York to
Philly and sit with him and spend time with him.
I can, you know, take a ten minute drive to
my parents' house and just watch movies that I used
to watch with them growing up. And that's enough, at
least for the moment. I want to give back in
different ways, but I think that that's a way that
hopefully they can understand, you know, how much they mean
(02:56):
to me. And it affects my music because it reminds
me of why I'm doing it, you know. I think
the a lot of reasons why people maybe have blocks
or have periods of, you know, not knowing which direction
to go back next. It can come from a variety
(03:16):
of things, but I think for me, it might stem from, Okay,
now I realize I really need to spend time with
my family because I'm not sure what to do, and
I need to go back to, you know what, doing
what it was that helped me get to this place
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So isn't it funny though? Yet you have like giving
back in air quotes, and I'm sure that you get
just as much, if not more, spending time with your
grandfather that he does, you know. And it's so funny.
Like when I used to do Grammy Camp, I would
have musicians come and talk to students and people would
be like, oh my god, this is the greatest thing ever.
(03:53):
And it's like it means as much of them as
more so, and especially when you're so busy, I'm sure
you really appreciate time. Just shut the world out for
an hour and watch Perry Mason.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Mm hmm, exactly exactly. And you're right, it does a
lot for me. I'm hoping that I'm bringing some sort
of life into his, you know, everyday routine, bringing some
sort of spontaneity. But yeah, the truth is it inspires
me too, you know, and it brings me back down
to earth, and you know, it's like it's almost like
a reset.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Also, imagine hearing those stories though, inspires me as.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
A writer, absolutely absolutely, hearing stories of the fact that
you know, he grew up in Jacksonville. I didn't know
he was in a barbershop quartet up until he moved
to Philadelphia at nineteen.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
I don't know what I was thinking when I thought
that people were musicians, but I guess I didn't realize
that in order to sustain the dream of being a
musician and of being a singer, you have to work
other jobs. So my grandfather, he worked as a cook
in a restaurant, in Philly, he worked as a bus driver.
He would bring back donuts to the neighborhood kids because
(05:06):
the because I think his stop or something like that
was right next to this donut shop. While also sustaining
the dream of you know, of of bringing this message
you know, of of the word, and of of gospel,
of his music, you know, to the world, he also
(05:27):
has had to sustain it in different ways.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
So yeah, having having stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Like that, you know, in my in my family legacy
is very inspiring to me as a writer, as a
as a performer at everything.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I have to ask one more quick question, and I'm
letting say shake over for a long time, but very quickly.
My dad's from Philly and I used to live there,
so I have to ask where in Philly. I used
to live in Spring Garden twenty thirty.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Oh, he lives in West Philly, and I think before
that he lived in North Philly on thirtieth Street. That's
what they always say is they had a house on
thirtieth Street. But now he lives on Haverford Avenue in
West Philly.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Man, there's such a rich musical history there though. Do
you feel it when you're there?
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Yes, every time I go. Every time I get off
of the Amtrak train, I'm like, I love this.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well favorite Philly song and then sausage.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Philly song.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean yeah, there's so much great music to
come out of there, the Philly soul sound all notes.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Like do you my favorite song? Oh gosh, my favorite song?
I don't know if I have a favorite song. Oh no, No.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I was just curiousd because there's such, like I said,
a rich history there.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
I will say that I surprise my parents with tickets
to the Frankie Beverly. Frankie Beverly and May's had he
had his last tour with them, and so I surprised
them with like a private car driving them to really
to go and see that concert. And everybody was dressed
in all white, and so I would say that's a
big part of my life.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Frankie Beverly and Maze.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That's stage after you all you there for a while.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Well, it's really beautiful how you are taking that time
to fuel you know, you're so busy, you travel so much,
you work so much, that having that time to really
fuel you and have you grow. I mean, it's just
remarkable how many hats that you wear. And I think
(07:31):
the evolution of wearing different hats is like an evolution
of just feeding yourself in different ways. Can you talk
about the making of this album and how you were
a songwriter, you were an a ranger, you were a bandleader,
you were a producer, you were a vocalist, like all
of these different hats that you wore. Was this quite
(07:51):
an evolution from the last album in that right?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And I'm I'm pretty amazed at myself for having the
courage and the confidence to do that, because I wasn't
It wasn't always that way, uh, And I think the Yeah,
that's probably the biggest difference that I see in myself
and in my performance and in my involvement from the
first two albums to now. And I feel like the
(08:18):
first the first two albums, I was growing a little
bit in confidence because of but but I feel like
I only had confidence in the music area, you know,
which is still the same. But it was just like, Okay,
this is my repertoire, this is what I want to perform,
this is what I love to sing, and I know
that this will have some sort of connection between me
and the audience because I love these songs and I
(08:39):
love to sing them. But when it came back, when
it came to co producing, when it came to even
listening back to takes to see if I like them
or not, I was like.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
I can't do it. Everything is bad. I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
I just I just kind of handed off everything to
the experts quote unquote and was like, Okay, I don't.
I don't know if I can manage all of this,
because if it was up to me, maybe.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I wouldn't release it.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
But now and I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I've
been on the road since twenty twenty one, and so
I've had all of this time to kind of accumulate
these experiences.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
And.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I guess hone in on what I want my sound
to be, what I want to present to people. I've
had the chance to try things out three or four
different bands and different configurations, and with this process, I
was like, Okay, there's so much more clarity. It feels
like my eyes have opened and my ears have opened
(09:41):
up the more music that I've listened to and the
more I've paid attention to what's around me. So it's
like I want all of everybody to be in the studio.
I want everybody to be in the room in the studio,
not in booths. Everybody that we're listening to, all of
our heroes recorded in the room, and it sounded natural,
and it sounded organic. That's what I want. We're performing
on stage, we're all close together. We've developed this chemistry.
(10:04):
I've developed this chemistry with everybody. I wanted to be
the same in the studio. I want to choose who
I'm co producing with. I want to choose the photographers,
the stylist, the photocover, the concept everything. I wanted to
be a part of every part of the process because
I felt like now I had the confidence to Actually
(10:24):
it wasn't even so much the confidence, but I just
realized that I had all of the tools all along,
but I just needed time to shape them up a
little bit. And so I think that's what I'm most
proud about about this whole process, and the way that
this kind of came about is because a year ago
it didn't sound like the way.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
The recording sounds now.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
We needed a little time to work things out and
to rehearse and to play through arrangements, change them up
a little bit, try again on the next gig, and
maybe rehearse it and rework it again. And that process
is something that you just can't you can't shortcut. You
have to go through, you know, that process of working
(11:03):
things out in order to come up with, I don't know,
a finished or at least a more finished product than
what you started with.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
So I'm really proud of how this all came together.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
And I guess how I opened myself up to, you know,
learning more about how to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
That is absolutely incredible. The role of a producer is
is such a nebulous term and it means you know
different things in different situations. And I'm I'm curious. I
feel like every every person just finds their own way
in and I think it's really cool how you learned
from the people and the music of before and you
(11:42):
really like stuck to that. And I'm curious more of
your process of finding your way in as a producer
and what it was like to work co producing with
Brian Lynch.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Hmm, okay, oh my gosh. We recorded in March, so
I'm like, all of these things are coming back to
me now and we're monthly at September, so producing. I
feel like the term it's always kind of been defined
(12:14):
at least to me as somebody who, uh, I don't know,
just kind of make sure that the vibe in the
room is good, make sure that the environment is set
and everything is set in order for the music to
kind of flow out freely. And I think in this case,
it already it was already an easy way in because
we had been on the road, we had been performing,
(12:36):
and so it wasn't like I was meeting all of
these musicians for the first time and we had to
create a vibe.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
We had already kind of made one our own on
our own.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
And developed this sort of musical relationship and chemistry on
stage and playing these songs over and over and over again,
that by the time we got into the studio, we
had been pretty relaxed and confident in the material that
we were going to play. And I think that because
of that, I knew that I wanted to make sure
that I was a co producer and had a hand
(13:07):
in how it was going to be recorded, because I
knew how I wanted it to sound already, And in
Brian Lynch, I kind of found somebody who who I
had admired, we had admired because of his musical prowess,
the fact that he arranges for large ensembles, he knows
exactly you know, what to listen for in horns, dynamically, harmonically,
(13:31):
feel wise, you know. But it wasn't like he came
in and was like I am Brian Lynch, I am
you know, like he respected us as equals, and that
was something that I really it's something that to this
day I still really really appreciate. He didn't see us
as young kids who were trying stuff out. Like he
respected us as equals and as musicians and treated us
(13:54):
as such in rehearsals and in the studio kind of
let us take the lead and if we, you know,
we asked him for opinions or advice or he made
a note on certain things. Everything was helpful, Everything you know,
made sense. Everything was only adding on to what was
happening in the studio and only tweaking what had already
(14:18):
been kind of like worked on by us. But it
was perfect looking. I was kind of looking for somebody
who had fresh ears because I, you know, disadvantages. I
have been listening to all the songs and listening to
it being created, So maybe there's some things that I
miss that he could pick up because he's hearing all
this music for the first time, and so it was
really I mean, I had never met him before this,
(14:40):
I had never worked with him before, but it was
it was such a perfect partnership. From being in the
studio to listening to takes back, trying to figure out
which take was better, editing and all that kind of stuff.
We had a crunched deadline all of a sudden, and
he just pulled it together. Him and David Darlington pulled together.
We got it done and we submitted it, and I mean,
(15:02):
he was just he was a perfect co producing, co pilot, partner,
or whatever you want to call. He's an amazing musician
and it was really an honor to work with him
in this process.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
You know, there's so many steps to talk about with
the creation of this, even though you recorded it in
such a short period of time, there's so many different elements,
and one of them is the lyrics that you wrote.
What was that process like to hear this music and
then find your story on top of that and come
(15:45):
up with the words to say.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
It required a lot of time, and I fell in
love with the music first because of the story that
was already being told by the composer through the melody
and through the harmony, and I wanted to make sure
that the lyrics flowed easy as easily as the melody did.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
It's like when I listened to songs that I that
I wrote lyrics to on this album, like Reincarnation of
a Love Bird by Charles Mingus and Now and Then
by Barry Harris, and even my own lyrics to my
own composition. I didn't want it so that the lyrics
were fighting the melody, or that it seemed unnatural. I
wanted to I wanted it to flow as if I
wasn't singing any words, you know, like it was just
(16:34):
you know, that easy, and the story was still as clear,
And so.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
It was a process of first learning the melody and
feeling feeling comfortable singing it on its own, and then
kind of trying to put together a story that went
along with the backstory of the original melody. So with Mingus,
it was the fact that he had wrote the song
for Charlie Parker in honor of him, and what I
(17:03):
love the little tidbit that I learned about him writing
this song is that he wrote this song in dedication
to Bird, but it wasn't necessarily like he was using
He said something like he wasn't using necessarily Bird's language,
like Bird's musical language, Like people write compositions dedicated to
(17:25):
someone and use everything that they've created or whatever. But
he just he wrote this song based on what he
felt about Bird, which I thought was really beautiful. And
the Verry Hairs song that was more of a personal
connection because I knew Barry Hairs and I learned from him,
and I spent time with him, like two years, so
(17:46):
I won't say it's like a whole lot of time,
but enough to realize that this was a great you know,
I was fortunate enough to be able to do so,
And so I wanted to write lyrics honoring him and
honoring mentors in general, because they play such an important
part in our life lives and in our learning, giving
us things to think about, you know, like allowing us
to learn from them and watch them at work. It's
(18:10):
just something that doesn't happen as often because a lot
of our heroes are past and gone now, so we
don't get to see them up close, and so I
want to make sure to always mention him and honor him,
and honor any mentors that I've ever had who have
inspired me, because I wouldn't be here without their work
and without their dedication to the music and their love
(18:31):
for it and them sharing it with me. So it's
a combination of a lot of things writing lyrics, but
it takes a lot of time because I want to
make sure that it flows easy and it's easy to
understand and easy to sing.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's interesting. Do you also find know that your lyrics
you say, it takes you a lot of time stage
and I have spoken to thousands, thousands of songwriters of
the last year, and so much of it is like
there's a channeling that comes worse stuff just comes in.
And do you find that there was that element as well?
(19:05):
And it's also very interesting to write music or lyrics
to someone else's music because you don't get to do
that often, and there is a different responsibility because you.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Want to honor what they were saying exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
And I'm not somebody who has written lyrics all of
their life, Like I just started writing lyrics to solos
at first, not even melodies to songs, but to solos exclusively.
The senior year of my undergrad and so this kind
of love for writing lyrics to melodies came much later
(19:37):
after I had already been interpreting other people's lyrics and
melodies for some time and still love to. But it
requires a lot of sitting and a lot of like
scratching things out, writing things.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Again. My notebook is full of like just.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Like little ideas, and I have to pace myself, like
I don't have to write lyrics to the whole song today.
You know, I just listened to the song over and
over again. I sing the song. You know, some words
come to me. I write it down. Maybe it doesn't work,
you know, in the end, but it requires it just
requires a lot of pouring out and then and then
whatever comes out on the page, at least for me,
(20:13):
I just try to piece it together.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That's interesting. I think so many people think in stage
would probably agree. People think there's a great mysticism and songwriting,
and there is some element to it too. But it's
very interesting because I got to interview Daniel land Wad,
the great producer, and he was telling me he worked
with Dylan on Time out of Mind, and he was
telling me how Dylan would write a couple of it
and if it didn't fit the song. He would take
(20:36):
the couple of it out and it was like puzzle building.
And that was so interesting to me because I think
everybody's like, oh, it just comes to you a dream
and yeah, So when the lyrics on this record that
really surprised you.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
I think the Maga song well surprised. There were there
were moments both of those lyrics that surprised me. And actually,
I'll talk about the three because right now I'm thinking, yeah,
only Reincarnation of a Love Bird now and then and
then my own composition peace of Mind. There were moments
of each of those that surprised me. And what I
(21:14):
can think of now with Reincarnation of a Love Bird,
I was I was trying to figure out what the
song was gonna be about because the only line that
I had for a while, like for at least three months,
the only line I had was only a dream to
me you were, which is the start of the song.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Holy Dream to Me you Were.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
And I was like, where is this gonna go? Like,
I don't know where this is going after this, And
there's a particularly hard part of the song where the
melody just jumps around so much.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Let me see if I can do it.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
It's like visions of a world of beauty, passions overflowing
and reflections up I was like, what am I going
to write words to that? How am I gonna do that?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And then it just kind of when I've came.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Gradually, I was like, Okay, I'm going to write this
song about you know, love, like the feeling of love
sometimes can be so surreal it feels like a dream.
And so the words are visions of a world of love,
passions overflowing, and reflections of the memories, the questions left behind.
And then following that, it says I wrote reality is
(22:23):
a dream and truth a lie. And I was like,
oh shoot, I feel like I'm you know, I'm like,
I'm trying. Every time I think about writing, I try
to think in a poetic manner. I guess, so maybe
that's what helps it in now. And then I wrote
the a sections while I was on the plane, but
I was still struggling to write the lyrics to the bridge,
(22:47):
and I remembered everybody calling Barry the bebop flame, keeper
of the bebop flame. And I also remember that whenever
he had lyrics to his own, you know, vocal ease.
It was always kind of like storytelling, like a Disney
like storytelling, kind of like that, you know, and he
was very I don't want to say he was theatrical,
(23:07):
but he was, you know, he was a character. And
so I just started the bridge. Once upon a time
there burned a flame so strong and bright, glowing for
the whole world to see. Now it seems the flame
has gone too soon, We'll sing your song, though it's
not the same. Will a spark like yours ever burn again?
And I figured that that was the perfect, you know,
(23:28):
thing to kind of bring the whole song together without
necessarily saying his name, because you could relate, you know,
a flame and the spark of a person, the life
of a person, to any mentor you have that is gone.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But that's my own personal way of saying, you know,
this is for you.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
And with my original song peace of Mind, I was
kind of writing it that came about when I was
just kind of playing around on the piano and I
came up with this melody. And at the time, I
was thinking about my life and how much it had changed,
and how everything around me was constantly changing and constantly moving,
(24:07):
and I wasn't sure of where to be grounded and
where to you know, find my own peace of mind
in the.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Midst of all of this.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
How can I stay stable when everything is pushing me
to the left and right and front and back and stuff,
and so the where do you find your peace of mind?
Was the first thing that kind of came out about
that song, and I continued from there. So I, yeah,
it's just different parts of each song that I write
lyrics to is very special to me. And I'm glad that,
(24:36):
you know, I can recall it and think about it
and think about the moment where it kind of you know,
it did flick on, you know, or one word or
one reminder, one memory caused me to, you know, have
this open minded moment and the lyrics kind of poured out.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I have few more questions than I will. Let's
say it's shake it home. But first, since you say
you want to think poet, Stage and I both write poetry.
I was the English phajor, who is your favorite poet?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I don't have a favorite poet at the moment.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's all right. He's writer.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
As a band.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
But I will say I enjoy reading works by Tony Morrison.
I enjoy reading excerpts of people like James Baldwin and
more recently Isabelle Wilkerson. I enjoyed their writing. It may
it may not be poetry, you know, proper, but I
enjoy the way that they write.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No, that's fair. And also by the way. I mean,
some of the greatest prose writers of all time were
very poetic, but there were prose writers that weren't poetry.
You know, Anne Patch it book called Valcanto. Actually it's
so funny. People don't like to like her because he's populous,
But the original interview with the vampire is it doesn't writing.
(25:56):
Jack harrowac on the road. All right, Now, my next question,
last one, this is a podcast one. What is your
purpose in life?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
What is my purpose in life?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Or as a musician? Mm hmmm, wherever you feel?
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Yeah, oh, this is loaded. I never know what to
say to this one, but I think I'll say my
purpose in life. My purpose in life is to never
stop growing. And I think that that applies in all
aspects of life as a daughter, as a musician, and
(26:34):
as a person. And I think the only way that
I'll be able to not only.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Serve my.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Desire and passion for music is by growing and the
only way that I can serve others and remind myself
that it's not about showing people what I can do.
And all these acrobats and look at this success and
look at here, look at their is to remind myself
to never stop growing and never be complacent with where
I am.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
There's always better that you can do.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
There's always more people that you can help, and there's
always there's always something that you could be doing, you know,
to better yourself and to better others.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So right again, there's no right or wrong answer. We
just started like asking this probably a couple of months
ago or maybe a year and a half ago, and
it's just fascinated to get people's answers. Sorry, I was
just laughing though. Just once I want to hear someone
just yell out to fucking party.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, I you know, I'm really I don't feel like
I'm normal sometimes because I'm twenty four and I don't
think i've really ever, like, you know, partied hard. I'm like,
maybe I should. I should do it one of these days,
just go out, get drinks, party because I can't I
know if my if my bedtime is ten now, it's
(27:54):
only going to get earlier the older I get.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So you're having fun, that's all.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
Yet take it home.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, you're too much of an old soul. And I
think that the purpose question is so interesting because internally,
like you know, you have your your idea, and then externally,
like for those looking upon you, it's it's like, you know,
you bring so much joy in your music, like the
arrangements of these songs and how you use your voice
(28:35):
as a horn is not only mind blowing, but it's
also joy filled. And you know your purpose, like you
just bring so much joy just by the work that
you do. So I think it's always, you know, a
funny question, but I need to ask about about those
arrangements and about coming up with you know, those really
(28:55):
intricate but but really joyful parts.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Oh man, I love this question. So because I was
listening a year and a half ago, I was listening
to and discovering and being introduced to more ensemble recordings,
whether it was more Duke Ellington, more Billy Straehorn, more,
Benny Golsen, more thatd Jones and mel Lewis, and I
(29:23):
wanted that behind me, I was like, I want horns
now want I want that kind of support, and I
want there to be arrangements and I want to be
and I think at first it wasn't even like I
wanted to sing parts necessarily, but I just wanted that sound.
And so the only way that I felt like we
could make it fresh and new was not only by
(29:47):
kind of calling on my peers that I knew who
loved to arrange and who loved to write, but by
giving each of them some of the songs that I
liked and allowing them to have free reign. They asked me,
what do you want on this? I was like, just go,
you know, just create, just write and see what happens,
you know, because I didn't want it to be like, Okay,
(30:09):
singer comes in at the at the beginning, solo horn player,
singer at the end.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I wanted it to be intricate.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
I wanted it to be a statement of each of
their musical personalities because they all come from different backgrounds.
One of them listens to revel, and I think everybody
listens to classic music, but a lot of heavy influences
in revel and you know Mazorski, I think he said,
and then there's a lot of Latin influence and listening
(30:38):
to people like Chuccio Valdez and Eddie Palmieri and you know,
all of these different backgrounds, Barry Harris, and so I
just wanted everybody to kind of pour into the project, you.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Know, in every way.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I didn't want it to rely solely on one arranger
or solely on one one book necessarily.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I wanted to write a wide range.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
Of repertoire and wide cast a wide net for arrangements.
And then as the project grew, whatever backgrounds that they
were writing behind each soloist, I ended up learning just
because we were playing the song so much, and so
I would try to sing along with them, and then
they started writing parts for me, and they started writing
(31:20):
sections for me to improvise. And I don't think that
that would have happened if I had just either stuck
with a smaller band and kind of played looser arrangements.
Which is great too. I think because I took the
step and wanted to expand and wanted to grow, the
opportunity was made for me to grow and to do
(31:42):
something that I hadn't done prior, and to surround myself
with people who were also thinking and passionate about music
and who were interested in learning more and not necessarily
copying or imitating our hero's word for word and song
for song, but using those inspirations to create our own music.
(32:03):
And as a result, I mean, we had a show
at town Hall, our debut at town Hall, and Ron
Carter came, Chris Potter came, Kenney Garrett came, Lenny White
and they all loved it. And I was like, Okay,
this is all I needed. Ralph Slalama, Gary Smullyan, I
was like, this is this is all I needed to to,
not not to that I didn't love it enough before,
(32:24):
but to have people that we look up to who
created their own musical landscapes say that, you know, they're
proud of what we're doing and for us to keep
going was enough for me.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
That's amazing. Is there anything about this album that that
you want that we haven't talked about that you want
to be included in this?
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Hmmm?
Speaker 5 (32:52):
I think, I mean, I guess we already touched on it.
But hopefully this album is a testament to what is
possible when when you trust yourself as an artist, and
when you trust the process, and when you keep your
mind open. And the reason I named it portrait is
because not only because I love visual art and I
(33:15):
wanted an oil painting of myself on the cover. But
when I look at when I look at art, I
see the whole picture, and I see the completion of
the artist's idea. But the more that I admire it
and the more that I look, I see all of
the details and all of the colors and the textures
that were required to make this complete picture. And so
(33:36):
hopefully that's what people will take away when they listen
to this album. Is like, at first, you might say,
this is gen Z Superstar, is Marriatory, you know, this
is Grammy, you know whatever. But the more you listen,
you'll be like, she's a musician. You know, she's she's
a part of the process. She is integral in in
(33:57):
this music throughout every song. You know, her identity is
becoming more and more clear. And uh yeah, hopefully people
get to know me more by listening to this album.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
So, oh, you're muted.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What did you learn about yourself in the making of
this album?
Speaker 5 (34:26):
I guess I learned that that I have what it
takes and the image that came to my mind when
I was when I was kind of on the road Honestly,
when I was on stage in the middle of singing,
I was thinking about how a lot of performances, a
lot of times there's a spotlight on the vocalist and
then the band is under some kind of blue light,
(34:47):
you know, barely kind of seen in the background, and
I wanted I wanted there to be some sort of
collaborative expression. I wanted everybody to be, you know, in
half circles on stage, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I wanted the drummer.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
To be able to hear the piano player and the
bass player and nobody use in ears, and everybody listen
to each other and be able to control our own
dynamics and build our musical chemistry together. And I think, yeah,
I realized that because I wanted that, and I thought
about it and it actually happened. I was like, Okay,
(35:23):
these past four months have been insanity with this project,
you know, and trying.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
To explain it to people.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
But I'm glad that I stuck with my vision, and
I'm glad that I trusted myself as an artist who
wants to be able to enjoy what it is that
I do and have other people enjoy it as well.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I have what it takes, and I'm glad that I was.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
I'm looking back on it now, I'm glad that I
was confident enough to follow through on this vision because
as an artist, I this is what I wanted, and
I'm glad that that had happened.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Very cool. Wait, who doy is the best FAMI leader
You've ever seen?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
The best band leader I've ever.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Seen in terms of sharing the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Damn, the leader I've ever seen in person. Hmmm, I think.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
I'm thinking about all the people that I've seen live
over the past couple of months, and I'm trying to
think of hmm. Well, okay, I'll say I went to
Smoke Jazz Club a couple of weeks ago and I
saw Sullivan Fortner, Chris Potter, Steve Wilson, Steve Wilson, Steve Wilson,
(36:49):
I can't remember Desron Douglas, and Jonathan Blake.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
It was Jonathan Blake's gig.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
But I appreciated the fact that everybody had their fair
share of the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And yeah, that's what I want. I want everybody.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I want the lights to be on everybody, not just me,
and everybody else is back there somewhere you know, you
can't tell if I'm singing the tracks or not, like
I want, I want to this is jazz. I want
to present live music, live art and yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Oh say ja, do you want to ask to wrap up?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Well, I can't wait for these arrangements to be live.
You're going on. You are on a pretty massive tour
right now, and I'm you know, I'm sure it's it
is electric, yes, So I can't wait for everybody to
experience that.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Are you doing the arrangements purely as they as they appear,
or sometimes you're you're exploring different avenues and yeah, you've
got to keep you know, sometimes slow going.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
And what's what I'll say is like, sorry if this
is going a long, but I'll say because we you know,
worked on we have a pretty wide book. But we
recorded these eight songs and we've been playing them already,
and so now that they're recorded, I kind of don't.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Want to play them anymore. I kind of want to
expand it.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
So I've been I've been passing out my assignments of
different songs that I want to be arranged, so that
you know, when I'm doing a ninety minute set, thirty
or forty minutes of it will be the album and
then we have room to you know, explore some new material.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Cool, Thank you so much for your con Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
I hope, I hope I had some forbes Worthy answers.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I mean, what is the forbor the answer anyway, I don't.
I don't know. You know, as long as as long
as it's fun conversation, that's really all that matters. An
interesting conversation. Cool, Thanks great, seeing you again.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
You doo.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Now you make sure you party this week in.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Another one is twenty four.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
You got it.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I know that is our purpose in life, find a
party and go.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
In there. I have done that. I'm good. But like
I said, it's not so much that it just says
a question. I just want to see someone who is
just like honest enough to say I fucking.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
No, not me. You didn't get me this time. Maybe
on the next album interview.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh well, good seeing you, Take care, take care of y'all.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Bye bye,
Hi, this is Steve Balton.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hello, I'm Sage Bava and this is in Service of
a new podcast dedicated to speaking with artists and change
makers on how being in service influences their.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Work and their creative process.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We're excited to share this conversation with the incredible Samara Joy,
a multi Grammy Award winning jazz singer who just co
produced an album called Portraits, coming out on Verb Records.
She is a lyricist, a composer, a bandleader, and just
a timeless soul with the most wonderful, warm voice. Here
(00:43):
is our conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We've been asking everyone of late, and I'm surprised by
how much no one talks about this. Every time I
ask someone, they're like, wow, And I don't know why
the hell no one talks about this. But we've been
asking everyone, how do you get back? What does it
mean to you? And how does it influenced your music?
And because so many people grew up with it, it's
(01:17):
a huge part of their music, but no one ever
talks about it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Mm hmmm, yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (01:25):
Well, I guess I try to do it in different ways,
and more recently I've been working on and being mindful
of giving back to my family, and I think the
way that.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
I do it not only is by.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
I guess, opportunity, whether it be like taking them on
tour with me and kind of highlighting them as part
of my inspiration and giving them the platform to do
what they love as well, since they inspired me to
do what I love, but also with my time, you know,
making time when I'm home, because it's kind of it's
been rare the past couple of years to be home
(02:02):
and actually spending quality time with them. So the past
couple of weeks, I made it a priority to visit
with my grandfather.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
He's ninety four years old.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
And just sit with him and watch Perry Mason and
talk with him and you know, do things that I
used to do when I was growing up all the time.
But now that you know, things have been going so well,
that's a part of things that that that's a part
of life that I guess is easy to neglect because
you say, you're so busy for this and that. But
(02:34):
I can take an hour train from New York to
Philly and sit with him and spend time with him.
I can, you know, take a ten minute drive to
my parents' house and just watch movies that I used
to watch with them growing up. And that's enough, at
least for the moment. I want to give back in
different ways, but I think that that's a way that
hopefully they can understand, you know, how much they mean
(02:56):
to me. And it affects my music because it reminds
me of why I'm doing it, you know. I think
the a lot of reasons why people maybe have blocks
or have periods of, you know, not knowing which direction
to go back next. It can come from a variety
(03:16):
of things, but I think for me, it might stem from, Okay,
now I realize I really need to spend time with
my family because I'm not sure what to do, and
I need to go back to, you know what, doing
what it was that helped me get to this place
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So isn't it funny though? Yet you have like giving
back in air quotes, and I'm sure that you get
just as much, if not more, spending time with your
grandfather that he does, you know. And it's so funny.
Like when I used to do Grammy Camp, I would
have musicians come and talk to students and people would
be like, oh my god, this is the greatest thing ever.
(03:53):
And it's like it means as much of them as
more so, and especially when you're so busy, I'm sure
you really appreciate time. Just shut the world out for
an hour and watch Perry Mason.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Mm hmm, exactly exactly. And you're right, it does a
lot for me. I'm hoping that I'm bringing some sort
of life into his, you know, everyday routine, bringing some
sort of spontaneity. But yeah, the truth is it inspires
me too, you know, and it brings me back down
to earth, and you know, it's like it's almost like
a reset.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Also, imagine hearing those stories though, inspires me as.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
A writer, absolutely absolutely, hearing stories of the fact that
you know, he grew up in Jacksonville. I didn't know
he was in a barbershop quartet up until he moved
to Philadelphia at nineteen.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
I don't know what I was thinking when I thought
that people were musicians, but I guess I didn't realize
that in order to sustain the dream of being a
musician and of being a singer, you have to work
other jobs. So my grandfather, he worked as a cook
in a restaurant, in Philly, he worked as a bus driver.
He would bring back donuts to the neighborhood kids because
(05:06):
the because I think his stop or something like that
was right next to this donut shop. While also sustaining
the dream of you know, of of bringing this message
you know, of of the word, and of of gospel,
of his music, you know, to the world, he also
(05:27):
has had to sustain it in different ways.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
So yeah, having having stuff.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Like that, you know, in my in my family legacy
is very inspiring to me as a writer, as a
as a performer at everything.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I have to ask one more quick question, and I'm
letting say shake over for a long time, but very quickly.
My dad's from Philly and I used to live there,
so I have to ask where in Philly. I used
to live in Spring Garden twenty thirty.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Oh, he lives in West Philly, and I think before
that he lived in North Philly on thirtieth Street. That's
what they always say is they had a house on
thirtieth Street. But now he lives on Haverford Avenue in
West Philly.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Man, there's such a rich musical history there though. Do
you feel it when you're there?
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Yes, every time I go. Every time I get off
of the Amtrak train, I'm like, I love this.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well favorite Philly song and then sausage.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Philly song.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean yeah, there's so much great music to
come out of there, the Philly soul sound all notes.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Like do you my favorite song? Oh gosh, my favorite song?
I don't know if I have a favorite song. Oh no, No.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I was just curiousd because there's such, like I said,
a rich history there.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
I will say that I surprise my parents with tickets
to the Frankie Beverly. Frankie Beverly and May's had he
had his last tour with them, and so I surprised
them with like a private car driving them to really
to go and see that concert. And everybody was dressed
in all white, and so I would say that's a
big part of my life.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Frankie Beverly and Maze.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
That's stage after you all you there for a while.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Well, it's really beautiful how you are taking that time
to fuel you know, you're so busy, you travel so much,
you work so much, that having that time to really
fuel you and have you grow. I mean, it's just
remarkable how many hats that you wear. And I think
(07:31):
the evolution of wearing different hats is like an evolution
of just feeding yourself in different ways. Can you talk
about the making of this album and how you were
a songwriter, you were an a ranger, you were a bandleader,
you were a producer, you were a vocalist, like all
of these different hats that you wore. Was this quite
(07:51):
an evolution from the last album in that right?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And I'm I'm pretty amazed at myself for having the
courage and the confidence to do that, because I wasn't
It wasn't always that way, uh, And I think the Yeah,
that's probably the biggest difference that I see in myself
and in my performance and in my involvement from the
first two albums to now. And I feel like the
(08:18):
first the first two albums, I was growing a little
bit in confidence because of but but I feel like
I only had confidence in the music area, you know,
which is still the same. But it was just like, Okay,
this is my repertoire, this is what I want to perform,
this is what I love to sing, and I know
that this will have some sort of connection between me
and the audience because I love these songs and I
(08:39):
love to sing them. But when it came back, when
it came to co producing, when it came to even
listening back to takes to see if I like them
or not, I was like.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
I can't do it. Everything is bad. I don't.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
I just I just kind of handed off everything to
the experts quote unquote and was like, Okay, I don't.
I don't know if I can manage all of this,
because if it was up to me, maybe.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
I wouldn't release it.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
But now and I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I've
been on the road since twenty twenty one, and so
I've had all of this time to kind of accumulate
these experiences.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
And.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
I guess hone in on what I want my sound
to be, what I want to present to people. I've
had the chance to try things out three or four
different bands and different configurations, and with this process, I
was like, Okay, there's so much more clarity. It feels
like my eyes have opened and my ears have opened
(09:41):
up the more music that I've listened to and the
more I've paid attention to what's around me. So it's
like I want all of everybody to be in the studio.
I want everybody to be in the room in the studio,
not in booths. Everybody that we're listening to, all of
our heroes recorded in the room, and it sounded natural,
and it sounded organic. That's what I want. We're performing
on stage, we're all close together. We've developed this chemistry.
(10:04):
I've developed this chemistry with everybody. I wanted to be
the same in the studio. I want to choose who
I'm co producing with. I want to choose the photographers,
the stylist, the photocover, the concept everything. I wanted to
be a part of every part of the process because
I felt like now I had the confidence to Actually
(10:24):
it wasn't even so much the confidence, but I just
realized that I had all of the tools all along,
but I just needed time to shape them up a
little bit. And so I think that's what I'm most
proud about about this whole process, and the way that
this kind of came about is because a year ago
it didn't sound like the way.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
The recording sounds now.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
We needed a little time to work things out and
to rehearse and to play through arrangements, change them up
a little bit, try again on the next gig, and
maybe rehearse it and rework it again. And that process
is something that you just can't you can't shortcut. You
have to go through, you know, that process of working
(11:03):
things out in order to come up with, I don't know,
a finished or at least a more finished product than
what you started with.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
So I'm really proud of how this all came together.
Speaker 5 (11:13):
And I guess how I opened myself up to, you know,
learning more about how to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
That is absolutely incredible. The role of a producer is
is such a nebulous term and it means you know
different things in different situations. And I'm I'm curious. I
feel like every every person just finds their own way
in and I think it's really cool how you learned
from the people and the music of before and you
(11:42):
really like stuck to that. And I'm curious more of
your process of finding your way in as a producer
and what it was like to work co producing with
Brian Lynch.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Hmm, okay, oh my gosh. We recorded in March, so
I'm like, all of these things are coming back to
me now and we're monthly at September, so producing. I
feel like the term it's always kind of been defined
(12:14):
at least to me as somebody who, uh, I don't know,
just kind of make sure that the vibe in the
room is good, make sure that the environment is set
and everything is set in order for the music to
kind of flow out freely. And I think in this case,
it already it was already an easy way in because
we had been on the road, we had been performing,
(12:36):
and so it wasn't like I was meeting all of
these musicians for the first time and we had to
create a vibe.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
We had already kind of made one our own on
our own.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
And developed this sort of musical relationship and chemistry on
stage and playing these songs over and over and over again,
that by the time we got into the studio, we
had been pretty relaxed and confident in the material that
we were going to play. And I think that because
of that, I knew that I wanted to make sure
that I was a co producer and had a hand
(13:07):
in how it was going to be recorded, because I
knew how I wanted it to sound already, And in
Brian Lynch, I kind of found somebody who who I
had admired, we had admired because of his musical prowess,
the fact that he arranges for large ensembles, he knows
exactly you know, what to listen for in horns, dynamically, harmonically,
(13:31):
feel wise, you know. But it wasn't like he came
in and was like I am Brian Lynch, I am
you know, like he respected us as equals, and that
was something that I really it's something that to this
day I still really really appreciate. He didn't see us
as young kids who were trying stuff out. Like he
respected us as equals and as musicians and treated us
(13:54):
as such in rehearsals and in the studio kind of
let us take the lead and if we, you know,
we asked him for opinions or advice or he made
a note on certain things. Everything was helpful, Everything you know,
made sense. Everything was only adding on to what was
happening in the studio and only tweaking what had already
(14:18):
been kind of like worked on by us. But it
was perfect looking. I was kind of looking for somebody
who had fresh ears because I, you know, disadvantages. I
have been listening to all the songs and listening to
it being created, So maybe there's some things that I
miss that he could pick up because he's hearing all
this music for the first time, and so it was
really I mean, I had never met him before this,
(14:40):
I had never worked with him before, but it was
it was such a perfect partnership. From being in the
studio to listening to takes back, trying to figure out
which take was better, editing and all that kind of stuff.
We had a crunched deadline all of a sudden, and
he just pulled it together. Him and David Darlington pulled together.
We got it done and we submitted it, and I mean,
(15:02):
he was just he was a perfect co producing, co pilot, partner,
or whatever you want to call. He's an amazing musician
and it was really an honor to work with him
in this process.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
You know, there's so many steps to talk about with
the creation of this, even though you recorded it in
such a short period of time, there's so many different elements,
and one of them is the lyrics that you wrote.
What was that process like to hear this music and
then find your story on top of that and come
(15:45):
up with the words to say.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
It required a lot of time, and I fell in
love with the music first because of the story that
was already being told by the composer through the melody
and through the harmony, and I wanted to make sure
that the lyrics flowed easy as easily as the melody did.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
It's like when I listened to songs that I that
I wrote lyrics to on this album, like Reincarnation of
a Love Bird by Charles Mingus and Now and Then
by Barry Harris, and even my own lyrics to my
own composition. I didn't want it so that the lyrics
were fighting the melody, or that it seemed unnatural. I
wanted to I wanted it to flow as if I
wasn't singing any words, you know, like it was just
(16:34):
you know, that easy, and the story was still as clear,
And so.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
It was a process of first learning the melody and
feeling feeling comfortable singing it on its own, and then
kind of trying to put together a story that went
along with the backstory of the original melody. So with Mingus,
it was the fact that he had wrote the song
for Charlie Parker in honor of him, and what I
(17:03):
love the little tidbit that I learned about him writing
this song is that he wrote this song in dedication
to Bird, but it wasn't necessarily like he was using
He said something like he wasn't using necessarily Bird's language,
like Bird's musical language, Like people write compositions dedicated to
(17:25):
someone and use everything that they've created or whatever. But
he just he wrote this song based on what he
felt about Bird, which I thought was really beautiful. And
the Verry Hairs song that was more of a personal
connection because I knew Barry Hairs and I learned from him,
and I spent time with him, like two years, so
(17:46):
I won't say it's like a whole lot of time,
but enough to realize that this was a great you know,
I was fortunate enough to be able to do so,
And so I wanted to write lyrics honoring him and
honoring mentors in general, because they play such an important
part in our life lives and in our learning, giving
us things to think about, you know, like allowing us
to learn from them and watch them at work. It's
(18:10):
just something that doesn't happen as often because a lot
of our heroes are past and gone now, so we
don't get to see them up close, and so I
want to make sure to always mention him and honor him,
and honor any mentors that I've ever had who have
inspired me, because I wouldn't be here without their work
and without their dedication to the music and their love
(18:31):
for it and them sharing it with me. So it's
a combination of a lot of things writing lyrics, but
it takes a lot of time because I want to
make sure that it flows easy and it's easy to
understand and easy to sing.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's interesting. Do you also find know that your lyrics
you say, it takes you a lot of time stage
and I have spoken to thousands, thousands of songwriters of
the last year, and so much of it is like
there's a channeling that comes worse stuff just comes in.
And do you find that there was that element as well?
(19:05):
And it's also very interesting to write music or lyrics
to someone else's music because you don't get to do
that often, and there is a different responsibility because you.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Want to honor what they were saying exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
And I'm not somebody who has written lyrics all of
their life, Like I just started writing lyrics to solos
at first, not even melodies to songs, but to solos exclusively.
The senior year of my undergrad and so this kind
of love for writing lyrics to melodies came much later
(19:37):
after I had already been interpreting other people's lyrics and
melodies for some time and still love to. But it
requires a lot of sitting and a lot of like
scratching things out, writing things.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Again. My notebook is full of like just.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Like little ideas, and I have to pace myself, like
I don't have to write lyrics to the whole song today.
You know, I just listened to the song over and
over again. I sing the song. You know, some words
come to me. I write it down. Maybe it doesn't work,
you know, in the end, but it requires it just
requires a lot of pouring out and then and then
whatever comes out on the page, at least for me,
(20:13):
I just try to piece it together.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That's interesting. I think so many people think in stage
would probably agree. People think there's a great mysticism and songwriting,
and there is some element to it too. But it's
very interesting because I got to interview Daniel land Wad,
the great producer, and he was telling me he worked
with Dylan on Time out of Mind, and he was
telling me how Dylan would write a couple of it
and if it didn't fit the song. He would take
(20:36):
the couple of it out and it was like puzzle building.
And that was so interesting to me because I think
everybody's like, oh, it just comes to you a dream
and yeah, So when the lyrics on this record that
really surprised you.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
I think the Maga song well surprised. There were there
were moments both of those lyrics that surprised me. And actually,
I'll talk about the three because right now I'm thinking, yeah,
only Reincarnation of a Love Bird now and then and
then my own composition peace of Mind. There were moments
of each of those that surprised me. And what I
(21:14):
can think of now with Reincarnation of a Love Bird,
I was I was trying to figure out what the
song was gonna be about because the only line that
I had for a while, like for at least three months,
the only line I had was only a dream to
me you were, which is the start of the song.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Holy Dream to Me you Were.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
And I was like, where is this gonna go? Like,
I don't know where this is going after this, And
there's a particularly hard part of the song where the
melody just jumps around so much.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Let me see if I can do it.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
It's like visions of a world of beauty, passions overflowing
and reflections up I was like, what am I going
to write words to that? How am I gonna do that?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:58):
And then it just kind of when I've came.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Gradually, I was like, Okay, I'm going to write this
song about you know, love, like the feeling of love
sometimes can be so surreal it feels like a dream.
And so the words are visions of a world of love,
passions overflowing, and reflections of the memories, the questions left behind.
And then following that, it says I wrote reality is
(22:23):
a dream and truth a lie. And I was like,
oh shoot, I feel like I'm you know, I'm like,
I'm trying. Every time I think about writing, I try
to think in a poetic manner. I guess, so maybe
that's what helps it in now. And then I wrote
the a sections while I was on the plane, but
I was still struggling to write the lyrics to the bridge,
(22:47):
and I remembered everybody calling Barry the bebop flame, keeper
of the bebop flame. And I also remember that whenever
he had lyrics to his own, you know, vocal ease.
It was always kind of like storytelling, like a Disney
like storytelling, kind of like that, you know, and he
was very I don't want to say he was theatrical,
(23:07):
but he was, you know, he was a character. And
so I just started the bridge. Once upon a time
there burned a flame so strong and bright, glowing for
the whole world to see. Now it seems the flame
has gone too soon, We'll sing your song, though it's
not the same. Will a spark like yours ever burn again?
And I figured that that was the perfect, you know,
(23:28):
thing to kind of bring the whole song together without
necessarily saying his name, because you could relate, you know,
a flame and the spark of a person, the life
of a person, to any mentor you have that is gone.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But that's my own personal way of saying, you know,
this is for you.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
And with my original song peace of Mind, I was
kind of writing it that came about when I was
just kind of playing around on the piano and I
came up with this melody. And at the time, I
was thinking about my life and how much it had changed,
and how everything around me was constantly changing and constantly moving,
(24:07):
and I wasn't sure of where to be grounded and
where to you know, find my own peace of mind
in the.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Midst of all of this.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
How can I stay stable when everything is pushing me
to the left and right and front and back and stuff,
and so the where do you find your peace of mind?
Was the first thing that kind of came out about
that song, and I continued from there. So I, yeah,
it's just different parts of each song that I write
lyrics to is very special to me. And I'm glad that,
(24:36):
you know, I can recall it and think about it
and think about the moment where it kind of you know,
it did flick on, you know, or one word or
one reminder, one memory caused me to, you know, have
this open minded moment and the lyrics kind of poured out.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I have few more questions than I will. Let's
say it's shake it home. But first, since you say
you want to think poet, Stage and I both write poetry.
I was the English phajor, who is your favorite poet?
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I don't have a favorite poet at the moment.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's all right. He's writer.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
As a band.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
But I will say I enjoy reading works by Tony Morrison.
I enjoy reading excerpts of people like James Baldwin and
more recently Isabelle Wilkerson. I enjoyed their writing. It may
it may not be poetry, you know, proper, but I
enjoy the way that they write.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
No, that's fair. And also by the way. I mean,
some of the greatest prose writers of all time were
very poetic, but there were prose writers that weren't poetry.
You know, Anne Patch it book called Valcanto. Actually it's
so funny. People don't like to like her because he's populous,
But the original interview with the vampire is it doesn't writing.
(25:56):
Jack harrowac on the road. All right, Now, my next question,
last one, this is a podcast one. What is your
purpose in life?
Speaker 4 (26:05):
What is my purpose in life?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Or as a musician? Mm hmmm, wherever you feel?
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Yeah, oh, this is loaded. I never know what to
say to this one, but I think I'll say my
purpose in life. My purpose in life is to never
stop growing. And I think that that applies in all
aspects of life as a daughter, as a musician, and
(26:34):
as a person. And I think the only way that
I'll be able to not only.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Serve my.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Desire and passion for music is by growing and the
only way that I can serve others and remind myself
that it's not about showing people what I can do.
And all these acrobats and look at this success and
look at here, look at their is to remind myself
to never stop growing and never be complacent with where
I am.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
There's always better that you can do.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
There's always more people that you can help, and there's
always there's always something that you could be doing, you know,
to better yourself and to better others.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So right again, there's no right or wrong answer. We
just started like asking this probably a couple of months
ago or maybe a year and a half ago, and
it's just fascinated to get people's answers. Sorry, I was
just laughing though. Just once I want to hear someone
just yell out to fucking party.
Speaker 5 (27:33):
Yeah, I you know, I'm really I don't feel like
I'm normal sometimes because I'm twenty four and I don't
think i've really ever, like, you know, partied hard. I'm like,
maybe I should. I should do it one of these days,
just go out, get drinks, party because I can't I
know if my if my bedtime is ten now, it's
(27:54):
only going to get earlier the older I get.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So you're having fun, that's all.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
Yet take it home.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, you're too much of an old soul. And I
think that the purpose question is so interesting because internally,
like you know, you have your your idea, and then externally,
like for those looking upon you, it's it's like, you know,
you bring so much joy in your music, like the
arrangements of these songs and how you use your voice
(28:35):
as a horn is not only mind blowing, but it's
also joy filled. And you know your purpose, like you
just bring so much joy just by the work that
you do. So I think it's always, you know, a
funny question, but I need to ask about about those
arrangements and about coming up with you know, those really
(28:55):
intricate but but really joyful parts.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Oh man, I love this question. So because I was
listening a year and a half ago, I was listening
to and discovering and being introduced to more ensemble recordings,
whether it was more Duke Ellington, more Billy Straehorn, more,
Benny Golsen, more thatd Jones and mel Lewis, and I
(29:23):
wanted that behind me, I was like, I want horns
now want I want that kind of support, and I
want there to be arrangements and I want to be
and I think at first it wasn't even like I
wanted to sing parts necessarily, but I just wanted that sound.
And so the only way that I felt like we
could make it fresh and new was not only by
(29:47):
kind of calling on my peers that I knew who
loved to arrange and who loved to write, but by
giving each of them some of the songs that I
liked and allowing them to have free reign. They asked me,
what do you want on this? I was like, just go,
you know, just create, just write and see what happens,
you know, because I didn't want it to be like, Okay,
(30:09):
singer comes in at the at the beginning, solo horn player,
singer at the end.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I wanted it to be intricate.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
I wanted it to be a statement of each of
their musical personalities because they all come from different backgrounds.
One of them listens to revel, and I think everybody
listens to classic music, but a lot of heavy influences
in revel and you know Mazorski, I think he said,
and then there's a lot of Latin influence and listening
(30:38):
to people like Chuccio Valdez and Eddie Palmieri and you know,
all of these different backgrounds, Barry Harris, and so I
just wanted everybody to kind of pour into the project, you.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Know, in every way.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
I didn't want it to rely solely on one arranger
or solely on one one book necessarily.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I wanted to write a wide range.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
Of repertoire and wide cast a wide net for arrangements.
And then as the project grew, whatever backgrounds that they
were writing behind each soloist, I ended up learning just
because we were playing the song so much, and so
I would try to sing along with them, and then
they started writing parts for me, and they started writing
(31:20):
sections for me to improvise. And I don't think that
that would have happened if I had just either stuck
with a smaller band and kind of played looser arrangements.
Which is great too. I think because I took the
step and wanted to expand and wanted to grow, the
opportunity was made for me to grow and to do
(31:42):
something that I hadn't done prior, and to surround myself
with people who were also thinking and passionate about music
and who were interested in learning more and not necessarily
copying or imitating our hero's word for word and song
for song, but using those inspirations to create our own music.
(32:03):
And as a result, I mean, we had a show
at town Hall, our debut at town Hall, and Ron
Carter came, Chris Potter came, Kenney Garrett came, Lenny White
and they all loved it. And I was like, Okay,
this is all I needed. Ralph Slalama, Gary Smullyan, I
was like, this is this is all I needed to to,
not not to that I didn't love it enough before,
(32:24):
but to have people that we look up to who
created their own musical landscapes say that, you know, they're
proud of what we're doing and for us to keep
going was enough for me.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
That's amazing. Is there anything about this album that that
you want that we haven't talked about that you want
to be included in this?
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Hmmm?
Speaker 5 (32:52):
I think, I mean, I guess we already touched on it.
But hopefully this album is a testament to what is
possible when when you trust yourself as an artist, and
when you trust the process, and when you keep your
mind open. And the reason I named it portrait is
because not only because I love visual art and I
(33:15):
wanted an oil painting of myself on the cover. But
when I look at when I look at art, I
see the whole picture, and I see the completion of
the artist's idea. But the more that I admire it
and the more that I look, I see all of
the details and all of the colors and the textures
that were required to make this complete picture. And so
(33:36):
hopefully that's what people will take away when they listen
to this album. Is like, at first, you might say,
this is gen Z Superstar, is Marriatory, you know, this
is Grammy, you know whatever. But the more you listen,
you'll be like, she's a musician. You know, she's she's
a part of the process. She is integral in in
(33:57):
this music throughout every song. You know, her identity is
becoming more and more clear. And uh yeah, hopefully people
get to know me more by listening to this album.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
So, oh, you're muted.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What did you learn about yourself in the making of
this album?
Speaker 5 (34:26):
I guess I learned that that I have what it
takes and the image that came to my mind when
I was when I was kind of on the road Honestly,
when I was on stage in the middle of singing,
I was thinking about how a lot of performances, a
lot of times there's a spotlight on the vocalist and
then the band is under some kind of blue light,
(34:47):
you know, barely kind of seen in the background, and
I wanted I wanted there to be some sort of
collaborative expression. I wanted everybody to be, you know, in
half circles on stage, you know.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I wanted the drummer.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
To be able to hear the piano player and the
bass player and nobody use in ears, and everybody listen
to each other and be able to control our own
dynamics and build our musical chemistry together. And I think, yeah,
I realized that because I wanted that, and I thought
about it and it actually happened. I was like, Okay,
(35:23):
these past four months have been insanity with this project,
you know, and trying.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
To explain it to people.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
But I'm glad that I stuck with my vision, and
I'm glad that I trusted myself as an artist who
wants to be able to enjoy what it is that
I do and have other people enjoy it as well.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I have what it takes, and I'm glad that I was.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
I'm looking back on it now, I'm glad that I
was confident enough to follow through on this vision because
as an artist, I this is what I wanted, and
I'm glad that that had happened.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Very cool. Wait, who doy is the best FAMI leader
You've ever seen?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
The best band leader I've ever.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Seen in terms of sharing the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Damn, the leader I've ever seen in person. Hmmm, I think.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
I'm thinking about all the people that I've seen live
over the past couple of months, and I'm trying to
think of hmm. Well, okay, I'll say I went to
Smoke Jazz Club a couple of weeks ago and I
saw Sullivan Fortner, Chris Potter, Steve Wilson, Steve Wilson, Steve Wilson,
(36:49):
I can't remember Desron Douglas, and Jonathan Blake.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
It was Jonathan Blake's gig.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
But I appreciated the fact that everybody had their fair
share of the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
And yeah, that's what I want. I want everybody.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I want the lights to be on everybody, not just me,
and everybody else is back there somewhere you know, you
can't tell if I'm singing the tracks or not, like
I want, I want to this is jazz. I want
to present live music, live art and yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Oh say ja, do you want to ask to wrap up?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Well, I can't wait for these arrangements to be live.
You're going on. You are on a pretty massive tour
right now, and I'm you know, I'm sure it's it
is electric, yes, So I can't wait for everybody to
experience that.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Are you doing the arrangements purely as they as they appear,
or sometimes you're you're exploring different avenues and yeah, you've
got to keep you know, sometimes slow going.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
And what's what I'll say is like, sorry if this
is going a long, but I'll say because we you know,
worked on we have a pretty wide book. But we
recorded these eight songs and we've been playing them already,
and so now that they're recorded, I kind of don't.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Want to play them anymore. I kind of want to
expand it.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
So I've been I've been passing out my assignments of
different songs that I want to be arranged, so that
you know, when I'm doing a ninety minute set, thirty
or forty minutes of it will be the album and
then we have room to you know, explore some new material.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Cool, Thank you so much for your con Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
I hope, I hope I had some forbes Worthy answers.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I mean, what is the forbor the answer anyway, I don't.
I don't know. You know, as long as as long
as it's fun conversation, that's really all that matters. An
interesting conversation. Cool, Thanks great, seeing you again.
Speaker 5 (38:57):
You doo.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
Now you make sure you party this week in.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Another one is twenty four.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
You got it.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I know that is our purpose in life, find a
party and go.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
In there. I have done that. I'm good. But like
I said, it's not so much that it just says
a question. I just want to see someone who is
just like honest enough to say I fucking.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
No, not me. You didn't get me this time. Maybe
on the next album interview.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh well, good seeing you, Take care, take care of y'all.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Bye bye,
Elvis Duran and the Morning Show ON DEMAND News
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.