September 18, 2025 • 45 mins
Welcome to the very first episode of What Are We Even Doing? — the podcast where actor and internet’s favorite dad, Kyle MacLachlan, sits down with the people shaping art, film, fashion, and the internet to talk creativity, ambition, and, well… whatever else they stumble into.
And what better way to kick things off than with Kaia Gerber — model, actor, voracious reader, and all-around force of nature. Kaia comes armed to the pod with book recs, Shakespeare burns, and the charisma of someone who once played Tree #2. The two chat about core memories that led her to acting, modeling as performance, and why live theater is the ultimate crash course in fearlessness. Also, Kaia’s obsession with reading and how her Library Science community came to be.
Tune in every Thursday for new episodes of What Are We Even Doing?
Executive Producers: iHeart Media, Elvis Duran Podcast Network, and Full Picture Productions Executive Produced for Full Picture Productions by Desiree Gruber + Anne Walls Gordon
Produced by Ben Fingeret, Nora Faber, and Maia Mizrahi
Editing by Mikey Harmon and Nicholas Giuricich
Research by Kimberly Walls
Music by Yatta
Art by Danica Robinson
Additional GFX by Chris Olfers/Southern Influence
Styling by Dot Bass
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YouTube: @KyleMacLachlanOfficial
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to What Are We even doing? The podcast where
I your host Kyle sit down with actors, musicians, creatives
of all type to discuss their process, the creativity, their ambition,
and how they use social media. Basically, we're going to
get weird here, but in a very good way. Since
this is our first episode, I'd like to introduce myself.
(00:21):
You might remember me from shows like twin Peaks, or
Sex in the City, or even the Internet's Dad. However,
I have decided to embark on a noble quest to
understand the brilliant creativity of youth culture without looking like
I'm trying too hard. Hold on to your hats. Here
we go.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Every great actor starts out as a treat. When I'm
not watching your video as a hot dog or dancing
to Charlie XCX, I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, when you were here, did you think, oh, my
mom's sole.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, it's about me and I chose to do with
my cement and I've traumatized a bunch of six year
olds arowny youth girls. I don't know, why do you
not on the podcast? I was like, you've never read
rom you're supposed to be I don't know if you're
laughing at this. And then there were other times where
it was like stand and do nothing, and then I
was like, I'm bored. At this point, They're like, oh God,
just tell us what we can watch. But from my mom,
(01:10):
I knew it was a big compliment. This is like
the comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What are we even doing? What are we even doing?
Ladies and gentlemen today Kaya gerber is with US actress, model,
and self proclaimed bookworm. Yes, when talk about that, because
I am not well read, and.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I don't have much time. But you went on a
journey when you left school. You left high school, right,
and you decided, you know what, I'm going to go
and I'm going to learn.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
As much as I can.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Everything is it's perfect. Yeah, but I have to ask
you this question first. So do you have a core
memory thinking back about inside out right, a core memory
of when you realize, oh, this is what I want
to do. You do a lot of things, so in particular,
the first thing that was like I want to do this,
I want to be this. Was there a moment or yeah,
(02:11):
you remember, Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I think in terms of literature, my brother is two
years older, and he was covering of Mice and Men
for his class. Okay, and I was probably far too
young to be reading it, but I saw that my
mom was reading it with him, and I was really interested,
so I started reading it with them, right. And then
(02:32):
when it came to do our book reports, I think
I was probably in second grade and you could choose
whichever book, and a lot of people were doing like
you know, Nancy Drew and like the Box Car Children
and stuff, and I chose to do with Mice and Men,
and I traumatized a bunch of you know, six year olds,
and but that I think that was really the thing
(02:52):
that showed me that I really loved that starnback easy
sort of gateway into literature.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, heavy themes, heavy themes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Did you graduate school?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I did, so I went, yeah, graduate to high school,
and then I went to the University of Washington in Seattle,
and I was on the five year plan. I started
with a love of acting, but didn't feel like that
was something I should study, you know, I needed to
go to college and to study get a career.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, is anyone in your family artists other than you?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, my mom liked the community theater and she could
play the piano. By my dad was also over a
piano player. Yeah, she was one of those sit down
and she could play anything. I know it was correct.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I am too. I studied piano, can't play a thing.
But she was the one who encouraged me in the arts.
So tried school. I actually left school briefly to go
back home, and I worked in a factory doing something horrible,
and then I had a summer stock experience and then
I was like, I think this is what I should do.
(03:56):
I think I'm better at this than I am at
anything else that I'm doing. That's how I stepped into
the world. Yeah, you are now fully engaged in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Which is how we met.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I was similar, where like I did a lot
of community theater and was always in school plays and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You were the second Tree? Was tren number too good
research that popped out to me.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That was my first role.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Really, Yes, I also were the tree you were? And
what Yeah Wiley and the Hairy Man. Yeah, children's theater.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Every great actor starts out as a tree.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean you have to. It's crucial, right, I mean,
what is it about a tree that I think is, so,
what did you learn is playing a tree?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What I learned about being Tree number two specifically, was
you still have to go to all the rehearsals. You know.
It's not like, oh, you're the tree, so you get
off easy. And I think this is true for pretty
much every acting job I've had, no matter how big
the part is, the commitment is pretty much the same,
and you know, and if you love it, you want
to bring all of yourself to it. So I think
(04:59):
being Tree number two the act. Actually this is the
part of the story I didn't tell and people don't know.
But I got cast as Tree number two, right, and
I was so committed and I showed up early to
every rehearsal and I knew everyone's line is not just
my one line, and they felt bad for me, I
think because they saw how committed I was amongst all
these other eight year olds who didn't really care. And
(05:19):
they then gave me the role of Anti m like
three months into rehearsal because they were like, this poor
girl is really showing up.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So I got to do a couple performances as Antim.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I would have been happy just to get to be
three number one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I know, well that was what I was going. But
then when I got Auntim, I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I don't know if I see it was Auntie m but.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I yeah, it was definitely a reach. It was a
reach of a role. But I am a character actor.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, you are. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I once had someone tell me that I was a
character actor stuck in a leading actress's body. That's funny,
which is funny and kind of maybe try.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I think it's true because you have a sense of
humor and you're fearless, thank you, and I think that's
a big part of being a character actor, and you
want to take You're more interested in creating the person
as opposed to playing yourself a reversion of yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, do you think that you're a character actor?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yea, because I think leading actor's body. I have a
look and everything, but I've never felt comfortable in that role,
you know, as a leading guy. I'm like, I'm always
I wanted to wonder some difference.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah. I also sometimes find that the leads are kind
of the most boring roles sometimes can be. They can
be where that's like the sort of I guess what
you'd call the secondary characters are really the interesting ones
where you get to play and like there's maybe more
room to create something.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same way. I think you
can be stoic, you know, as a leading man, but
I think you can be one of the eccentrics.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, in the outside, which is Yeah, what was your
first like big.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Role, Well, when I my first role ever was Noah
in the in the Church play, which of course Noah's
ar Yeah, yeah, that's the one. And then but the
one that really kind of turned for me, like speaking
of if it was a core memory was I had
(07:10):
dropped out of school, as I mentioned, and then I
that summer I went to summerstock at the Flat Rock
Playhouse in North Carolina, and I found my way there
through it was securitous. I played the lead role in
Look Homeward Angel, which is a play they did every
year there because it's Thomas Wolfe was from Asheville and
North Carolina. He wrote about that community and it was
it's his personal story. Yeah, and I played him as
(07:31):
a young man Eugene, and he's sort of the lead
of the piece.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And it was with an equity cast and from New
York and I think I did pretty good and I
really loved it, you know, and I came away feeling,
oh my god, I think this is something I can
do more than just in high school.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, and that for me was kind of like, okay,
that started kind of kickstarted me on the gyp.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So you were theater before screen I?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Oh yeah, screen Dune was my first thing.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I'd never been in front of a camera before. I'd
never done anything in front of television before. I look
at it now and I sort of laugh because I'm like,
I'm clearly clueless. Is there what I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
But do you think because you were kind of clueless,
you were fearless or were you?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I was fearless because my training. Yeah, I was still terrified,
but I was Yeah, I had confidence because of my training. Yeah,
you know, I know how to handle this particular character. Yeah,
but that was more of a character.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And the role in Blue Velvet was more like closer
to me.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, which is sometimes scarier.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It can be very scary. Yeah, what's been this? Have
you had something that's like really scared you that you've done.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, I mean I'm terrified all the time, but everything
I do, but.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
It doesn't show they thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
That's all pretty much all I'm focusing on is not
showing how scared I am. But I just did a
play and it was my first one since I guess
becoming a professional actor, and I started doing theater, so
I was more comfortable doing theater. But then I had
spent so much time doing screen acting jobs and going
back to doing community theater, like I did it at
(09:05):
a little theater here that was you know, ninety nine
seats and you just there's no room to lie at
all when you're doing something like that, and so I
think I just it was terrifying, and it was all
the things that I don't do in front of people,
like cry, scream, sing, dance, like just.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
All the things very emotional for the character. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And I was working with these three incredible, like
pretty much strictly theater actors who had done so many plays.
So I've kind of felt like in over my head,
but I was so grateful for the experience because I
do think as an actor that's like the best thing
that you can do for your tools. Like I now
go back and I'm like, how have I been working
(09:48):
this long without having had that experience, like, it's so
nice that you got to do that, and then go
on to do do which is a crazy trajectory like.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
This, and then it was like this, Yeah, I say,
I didn't come for relative obscurity. I came from complete obscurity.
And then had you know, my career has been up
and down. Yeah, you will see journey down this road.
It's fascinating and fun and frightening and rewarding and yeah, yeah, anyway,
so this it's nice to hear about a little bit
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, it is so fun, though I think like it's
for me because there are so many ups and downs.
I was filming a TV show here and I knew
I had to be in LA and I knew I
wasn't going to be working every day, so I just
decided to do a play at the same time, which
was I don't actually recommend that to anyone who wants
to keep their mental health any role. But it was
(10:39):
really great because I had this other thing, so I
didn't feel like sometimes you can feel like when you're
working you're just giving and not it doesn't feel like,
you know, sure, a full circle thing. And and I
think because I was getting the experience of you know,
like film all day and then I'd go to the
theater and do the play. I was like, oh, like,
this is where they will find me out if I'm
(11:02):
a phony.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Basically, well, you make a really good point, I think,
which is when you're working in film or television, you're
working with a group of actors and cameras this receptive audience, right,
but there's no way to really no, I mean you
kind of know and the director it can be helpful
or not depending on the director. Your other cast mates
can be you know, helpful, But it's the beauty of
the theater, right. Yeah, you get immediate feedback. People are there.
(11:25):
You can tell if they're with you, you can tell
if they're not with you.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Oh yeah, It's such a gift though as an actor,
Like we had this one audience that was it was
just a school and they had come on a Sunday
afternoon and also Mattine Is it's just such a different
experience anyways, but it was a group of these teenage
students who were not studying drama. They just they were
all studying different things, so they were it was a
(11:48):
lot of their first time ever seeing live theater, and
so you know, there's the layer of like are we
allowed to react, which you know in theater you want reactions.
I love like the rowdy or the audience the best
for me as an actor. And they were completely bored
the whole time, and it was it was the greatest
gift because I think we I mean we all spoke
(12:10):
about it after they were snoring. Some of them had
headphones on, some were just eating chips, they were playing
games on their phone. But it was like we learned
more in that one performance than we did, you know,
and all the others, because you can't lie to teenagers.
They will find you out when you have kids.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes, there's authenticity.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, And I was so grateful because I was like,
I thought that joke was funny, and I now realized
that I'm not delivering it right like they. I was
so grateful we had them like halfway through and it
really actually changed and impacted the show a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that authenticity is such. I mean,
you know, obviously there's a generational difference between us. When
I was younger, there was you were really always very
conscious or self conscious I guess about how you presented yourself.
You had, you know, everything had to look good and
be perfect. And I still carry that with me. But
I think recently, as I've become more engaged in social media,
(13:06):
I realize that's not really important. What's important is that
you are authentic to yourself, and that's what a younger
audience is responding to or seems to.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Be, Oh yeah, you absolutely. I mean, I think it
used to be you'd only see movie stars or people
either in magazines or in a newspaper or on a
red carpet, Like you didn't see them in their homes.
You didn't see them in their everyday life, right, And
now with social media, there's like this direct access to people.
I think it humanizes and kind of levels everyone in
(13:39):
a way that can be really helpful. I also think
your social media presence is incredible. It's like such a
I mean, I remember when I met you. I told
you that because I had been watching your videos and
I was like, it's so niche and specific and funny
and incredible, and like to see that it transcends en generations,
(14:01):
like you were coming up with things that people might
wish that they had, the sort I remember I asked you,
I was like, please explain to me how your.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Couple are sitting in the room right now and you're
on behalf of all of their they are, and Nora
is out somewhere, She's be hiding, hiding behind the screen. Anyway,
this is this is, this is the brain Trust.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's it's remarkable work. It truly is. It's brilliant. I've
been thinking a lot about because there's so many there's
so much dichotomy on social media where like the other
day I saw a poet and he was kind of
like a Jack Kerouac type of poet, but he was
on TikTok And then I was like, is it immediately
not Jack Kerouac because he's on TikTok, But then I
(14:43):
was like, maybe Jack Kerouac would have actually had a TikTok,
Like we don't know. And so I find it so
interesting when it like transcends these different things.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, I agree, And I also love the platform. I
just love the fact that there are there's a structure
to it, there's there limits to it, and the form
that you get to play with and to be creative
within that space, I think is a challenge and I
find it fun so and as.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
An actor to be able to create and release your
own content is such a gift. It's you know, like
I know so many people who are just making short
films and releasing them on social media because otherwise, as
an actor, you can feel very much at the mercy
of the industry and to sort of wait around for
an opportunity that like may or may not come. So
(15:29):
I think it's wonderful for that reason too, as you
actually can get your own work out there without waiting
for other people to see the talent. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, it's one of the big changes I think in
the business. I remember back in the day when I
was starting, you would you would send in an audition tape.
I mean, I think people still do that. There was
no way to really let people who are casting or
directors or anyone in the film just get a sense
of who you are without releasing your own stuff. And
you can do that on social right now. It's such
(15:57):
a it's like a it's an amazing thing. Obviously, we
talked about the fact that you are incredibly well read.
We started to talk about that. Yes, that is an
interesting journey to me because there are so many books
that I know of that I'm saying oh I should
know this, or even that my son is now reading
at school, and I'm like, oh, you know, And it's
(16:17):
just finding the time, and you know, there is time.
You have to make the time.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You have to make the time. But also I think
because I graduated high school early. I was sixteen, So.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
While I'm not an overachiever by any means, i.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Am, I ever go I was like straight a's. My
school actually came to me my junior year and they
were like, we have run out of classes for you,
but legally you have to do another year of school,
so you can either retake all the same classes or
just get basically the equivalent of a GED. So I
just chose to do that. But I think because I
(16:52):
never I didn't go to college, so I didn't have
the experience of necessarily being forced to read certain books, right,
So I got to choose what I was reading, which
I was very grateful for. So I moved to New
York after high school. I met this wonderful man named
Jonah who now has a library, which is very fitting
and he's great. I got to like go sell books
(17:13):
with him at a book fair last week. It was
that's my dream. I was like, can I have your job?
But he was at NYU studying literature, and he was
sort of assigning his book list. Okay, you take me
to the bookstore, and he would just be like, read this.
So I was gaining access to books I never would
have picked up at you know mcnully Jackson had I
(17:35):
gone by myself. So I started quite pretentious, I have
to say, Like I was reading Plato and Cameu and like,
I remember my mom's a huge reader. Yeah, I was like,
you've never read Rambone. My mom was like I did
that when I was twenty. You'll get over it one
day and then you'll just read for pleasure. But I was.
I loved it because it was like this whole new
(17:56):
world and I got to choose what I was reading. Yeah,
and then so over time I was like, I also
want to read, you know, fiction and like gripping stories.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think that reading can feel really sort of scary
and like untouchable. But there is a book for everyone.
And my favorite thing to do is a sign reading
to people based off what I think they'll like.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Oh good, you're going to have to give me an assignment.
I started with Hardy Boys, of course, Okay, I was
actually a really voracious reader when I was a kid.
I read everything. My parents we didn't have a huge library.
They had like the readers, Digest, condensed books, praise. So
I read like Pepillon and I read all these you know,
I've just'sl I just find stuff, you know, I really
(18:40):
wanted to read. And I had my library card. Incredible,
you have a library cards, the library cards they do.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But libraries sadly are dying and I don't want them to.
And now I just like I'm constantly reading, and I
think I think as an actor, there's so much time
that you're sitting and waiting around, so there's so much
time to read, and like, there's only so much time
you can spend on social media. I try to avoid
it for the most part, unless i'm finding like your
(19:08):
videos basically that actually bring you joy and not leave
you feeling worse than before.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We try to do.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, well that's the that's kind of hard to find
now on social media. So I think that stuff is
so important. And so when I'm not doing when I'm
not watching your video as a dog or dancing to
Charlie XCX, I'm reading.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
A book, isn't she wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Gosh that was was that where we met?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, I think we were. We're in the elevator that
one time saw you and then but I think that
was right at that time. That was so fun and yeah,
she's just a delightful human. Yeah. And I you know,
I just thought she's so talented and then we met
and she's so gracious.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I was with a large group of people and she
took time and said hello to everybody and you know,
very kind. She didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, And she hasn't. I've known her for a long
time and she hasn't changed at all, which is I think.
I mean, of course she evolves as a person, but
like she's been working so hard for so long that
this sort of what felt like overnight sort of success
was so not that, which is I often feel like
true people like to say, oh it was an overnight thing,
(20:15):
and the person that it happened to is like, I've
been working for her, yeah, so long. And that's true
for Charlie. So I think she was really ready and
grounded and knew who she was and it really was
about the world catching up to her, not about her
changing for the world.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and she just she handles it so
so well, and she's such a terrific performer. She comes
out with energy.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, when you see her up there,
You're like, I could never approach this person. I could never.
I mean, yeah, so strong commands a whole entire arenas
and then is such a person and such a wonderful,
generous person to talk to. But I also wonder like
when you have moments like that, because I'll have you know,
like we went and saw Charlie and it was like
(20:56):
the whole cast of overcompensating. Yes, And I wish I
journed Old Moore remember these things more because I'm like,
that probably was a moment in your life. Was that
normal at that moment in your life.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
For me to go, No, I hadn't got to a
concert for so long, okay, but it was really fun
to be with friends, like, oh this is great, so
many and the crew and it was there and it
was just so comfortable and so and so nice. And
we got to support a friend.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean she's a new friend to me, but she's
a friend, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh yeah. And also I'm like, well, I have like
kids one day and be like I was that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Charlie sweat that sounds kind of like me right now.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I'm like, this might be that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, so funny. Yeah, my son is like, what, Dad,
what's going on? Well, when you were younger, did you think, oh,
my mom's so cool?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
No, I still don't think she's. I mean I think
she's I think she's a really cool person. Yes, she's
a total dork lady. But I will say the older
I've gotten, the more I can take kind of a
step back and see and appreciate what she's done. And
I remember watching they did this supermodel documentary on Apple.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I remember, yeah, and I watched.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It and I was like sobbing in tears, and I
called her and I was like, I think, you know,
when she's my mom, I'm not asking her, like, so,
why did you decide to do Playboy or what how
did you do the Pepsi commercial? Like I wasn't thinking
about that stuff, And so to actually hear her story
and I was like, I never I failed to ask
her all of these interesting things. I really that was
(22:23):
like a huge moment for me where I realized, especially
because she didn't come from a family in the industry
at all, so I'm like, how did you navigate? Like,
I don't know what I would do without her? Yeah,
So I'm now there's like so much more curiosity as
I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I think it's normal. Yeah, we begin to sort of
look away. You're no longer focus here on yourself, focus
on out in the world.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And there is a curiosity about my first eighteen years
or like.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean there's no me. Yeah, there's nobody. It's about me,
about me, you know, I'm you know, I'm sixty six
and it's still all about me.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
No, I'm just yeah, if you do it right, it's
still it's gonna always be about it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It's just interesting to me, you know, growing up with
someone obviously so successful at what she did. Yeah, that
at some point in time there will be a curiosity.
But and Randy too, just about his success and why
and the choices, and you know, just as a learning mechanism.
And my wife, Desiree is so good at talking to
(23:18):
our son about She's a really good life lesson giver.
So if there's something that happens, she will frame it
for him in a way that's like that I didn't
have that experience. And she just says this is actually
a very good thing. And they will tell you why.
He's got a great mom amazing, So yeah, it's really
(23:39):
it is.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Good to have. Like my mom's quite like that. She's
very She's very much like, let's go through it together,
like this has happened to me, let's talk about it.
And my dad is kind of more of a quiet,
understanding person. But then every once in a while, like
we'll go on a walk or something and he'll say
align to me and I'm like, yeah, I mean, work
(24:00):
of genius.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And you're paying attention.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
But it's like it's really they're they're sort of more rare.
My mom's like very much like talk into therapy, like
has always been that way, and my dad is like quieter,
but then he'll just drop a line that like rocks
my world and I'll think about it for, you know, years.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I want to ask you a little bit about the
modeling world and as you're working through a series, if
you're working with photographer and you're doing a series of
looks and things, and that process of telling the story
and the kind of character that you develop. I find
it fascinating that you actually it is a creative journey
(24:41):
and you are telling a story. I mean, and you're
using movement, and you're using you know, obviously a light movement,
what you're wearing and everything. I would love to hear
your experience with that from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, it's I'm happy that you see it that way.
I think a lot of people don't see it that way,
but I always saw it that way. It's such a performance,
and I think because I had been doing theater for
so long when I started modeling, I kind of had
to view it as a performance. Otherwise I'm so uncomfortable
in front of a camera, which people wouldn't believe. But
(25:13):
like when I do red carpets or like have to
show up as myself, I don't. It's like I've never
had my picture taken before. Like I'm shaking. I get
so nervous. I know so many actors who feel that
way too, who are like they get so nervous to
have their picture taken. So I, even just for myself,
started developing characters so that I was able to go
(25:35):
stand and perform in front of a camera and not
feel so shy because I was really shy as a kid.
And you know, I started modeling when I was like fourteen,
and that's scary of all these grown ups looking at you,
and you're like, if I do a bad job, all
these people's hard work is going to go to waste.
And I think as a model, and I feel this
way about acting to some extent, but really as a model,
(25:55):
like you're there to showcase everyone's art. You know. It's
like the photographs, art, the lighting, the makeup, the clothes,
our art, the hair is computer art.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's like yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And so for me, it was always like I don't
want to let these people down, and I want to
tell their story and like figure out the best way
that I can tell the story that everyone is here
to tell. So I always would come up with little
characters and little things that entertained me on set, and
I would rarely tell people I was doing it. But
you know, like I don't think I would have been
(26:27):
able to confidently or even walk a runway like confidently,
Like that's so not my personality. Like I walk into
a room and I'm like this, but then you have
to you know, you are going and walking a runway
and you have to look confidence. I would come up
with different sort of character characters, which.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think is the journey towards acting, it makes sense
that you would then be drawn into the world where
you're now actually creating a character for a long, longer time,
longer time period.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, And the more that a photographer was like, this
is the story we're telling, this is sort of who
this person is. I would get really excited, Like whenever
I would get to a set and there was a
storyline or there was a very clear sort of idea
of the story we were telling, that would get me
really excited. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was like,
(27:10):
I'm bored and I feel uncomfortable. So I appreciate the
part of it that, Yeah, I think it in a
lot of ways, like prepared me to be comfortable and
to get comfortable also living in my head with a
character for a long time and sustaining that, and like
also not sharing a lot of that process with people,
Like I'm not really the kind of actor that's like,
(27:33):
this is my preparation that I did and this is
And some people do that, and I appreciate when they
do because I like hearing how other people do it,
But I don't know how to talk about it really
like what happens in my mind. And so I think
I got comfortable doing that from modeling because I would
just to entertain myself, like create entire people and then
go be them, and oftentimes people wouldn't know if they
would just think I was being myself.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah yeah in life. Yeah, I also think an editor
a good editor on a shoot, Yeah, it can be
incredibly helpful. I just sort of tell the story. To
help tell the story, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think I'm also curious how you feel about this
because it used to be all film, and so I
felt like there was so much and I've shot a
lot on film as well. There's so much attention on
you as the subject when it's on film, and they're
not obsessing over little things. And now with digital, everyone's
looking at a computer screen and so you're kind of
like up there by yourself a lot of the time,
(28:37):
and they're looking at you, but they're not really looking
at you. They're looking at the clothes or the hair
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So I always found that interesting where everyone was like,
I'm standing up there alone and everyone's like over there
looking at the computer screen.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
You're right, it has changed. Yeah, when I first started
it with film, there was no video village, you know,
was away looking at something. Yeah, and true. When I
started early with taking photographs for certain things, there was
no kind of trying to look at what was already
filmed and shot. It was really about if I felt
like there was and I still is the energy of
(29:10):
capturing something special through the lens, which is the communication
between you, the camera and the photographer. Yeah, and now
it's kind of been I don't know, it's been sort
of weak in somehow. And similar with him. I remember
working with when we shot Blue Velvet with David, there
(29:30):
was no no monitor. He would sit right in front
of the camera, usually something in the dolly or right
there next to it, and he was watching exactly as
close to what the lens was seeing as as the operator,
you know. And I think so he was feeling it
like the photographer would feel and said, that's right, you know,
(29:52):
he knows, you know what.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I mean, an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah. Do you have someone that you've worked with a
couple of times, or someone that you would consider maybe
a mentor or partner.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Or I mean I have I've never worked with the
same director twice, but I've I've worked with Rachel Sennett,
Oh yeah, a bit. And I and my first film,
my first film that anyone saw, was Bottoms. So I
really felt like her and Emma Seligman, our director, and
(30:22):
Iodebris were like especially in comedy, because I never thought
I would ever be in a comedy. They were like
they felt I just learned so much and they weren't like,
let me take you under my wing. But I just
watched them and learned so much from them. And then
I've I've been on this TV show, Palm Royal. We
just did a second season, and Kristen Wigg has been
(30:43):
like just a dream of a mentor, especially in comedy.
I'm so happy to hear She's just like the loveliest
you know, exceeds all expectations, and I just get to
watch her work every day, and that's I'm such a sponge,
Like I just sit and kind of watch. A lot
of people are like, are you okay, and I'm like, no,
I'm just I'm just processing information, learning, And I think,
(31:06):
especially early on in your career, it's wise to just
kind of like observe as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
There's so much you can learn. I still learn working
with different actors, actors and actress is just kind of
the process. And that's one of the things I love
is just watching someone's process. Sometimes it's out of curiosity.
Sometimes it's out of oh, I really like that, or sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, or never do that. Sometimes it's I never want
to be that person on the set, And that's just as.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Valuable, I think completely.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like I'm so grateful to have had all ends of
the spectrum, and I'm sure as you keep working, you
just get even more and more and more. Like I
work with Carol Burnett, who's just a legend. I never
thought I would get to work with Carol Burnett. She's
the easiest person to work with. She's so prepared, she's
so funny, she's so lovely, she's always in a good mood.
(31:56):
And I'm like, if anyone had any excuse to be
a total diva, Carobernet could get away with murder as
far as I'm concerned. And she's the loveliest, So like
that has been such a lesson for me, and oftentimes
the people who are really incredible people that you look
up to conduct themselves in a really kind, lovely way
on set. I found.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, she's a true pro and forever and she comes
with a tremendous mount of gratitude and skill, and I
think she you know, it's one of the things working
on a set like that. The energy of this of
the space, the creative space is so important. It's important
to me, and it needs to be a place where
there is acceptance, there's freedom, there's there's just a creative
energy that flows and anytimes that there's an interruption from
(32:40):
that and it can come into verry different types of forms.
And it hasn't happened to me that frequently it's becomes
not a pleasure and not creative. It becomes work and
an effort and you just can't wait to finish.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I know. And I really, I really don't subscribe to
the belief of like it needs to be a struggle
to make interesting art. And I mean, like, I really
think the best art is created in a safe place.
And one of the people that taught me that was
Laura Dern.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Like she she's great.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
She is so great about having strong creative boundaries but
also being so lovely to everyone. And I really was like, Oh,
that's where incredible work happens is when everyone feels safe. Yeah,
And I wonder how much of that was learned because,
like you, David Lynch was like one of her big mentors.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, he's so my first you think with David and
that was exactly The environment that he created was one
of safety. I went on and to work with other
directors where that was not necessarily a priority, and I
didn't really enjoy that. You know, you you do what
you have to do, and you create your own space,
you know what I mean. You you adapt and adjust.
But when it exists among the actors, and you know,
(33:48):
David is very specific about his casting, you know, you
create a little family, you know. Yeah, and then there's
a and there's a real connection and joy and love.
That's just just innate. Yeah, that environment, Yes, it's such
a place that I love to work from.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's so funny because like when I did the play,
I was like, God, this is going to be so
hard for my parents to watch. I was playing a
woman who was really suicidal, had a lot of anxiety,
and like, I'm a firm believer of like, you don't
become other people necessarily, it's just like you dial up
or down different parts of yourself. And I was like,
this is going to be really hard, especially for my mom.
(34:26):
To watch because I give like a suicide voicemail to
my mother that's really upsetting. And my first thing going
in I was like, how am I going to cry
every night? And then suddenly I was like, how am
I going to stop crying? After this scene? And on
opening night my parents were there and I was like, think,
I just was, you know, doing the voicemail, and I
knew my mom was in the audience, and I was
(34:48):
just like, oh gosh, my poor mother. Yeah, and we
kind of got off stage and I was like, Okay.
She's like that was great. You're so brave. I was like,
but like, did you cry? And she's like no. I
was like, she's like, well, I knew it wasn't you.
I'm like, yeah, but you weren't moved to tears. She
(35:09):
was like no. But that's why it's kind of fun
to have parents who are not actors, is like they're
just they just think I'm insane for doing what I.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Do, right, But it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, which as an actor coming off stage, you don't
necessarily want to hear that was brave. But for my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment, yes, but from
anyone else I would have been like, okay, yeah, yeah,
that was brave.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, so interesting that you were more concerned about how
she might feel then oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah and she was fine. Yeah, I mean truly, not
a tear fell. She was completely fine.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
To give your mom more credit, it's like, oh, yeah,
she's fine with that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah. But they can handle it. They're pretty they can
handle I think at this point they're like, we can
pretty much handle anything.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah. Yeah, good, Yeah, that's a good sign. You're doing
something right.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, I think they are doing something right all right.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Books to film.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
They're starting to do film first and then write the
book after, which is interesting. Adapting books, especially really Loved
Ip is scary because it can go south, as we've learned, No,
but then there's also like incredible examples and like, I
really think the marker of a successful adaptation is anyone
(36:25):
who hadn't read the book, watches it and then wants
to read the book, Like I think Call Me by
Your Name was a great example of that. A lot
of especially in the US, a lot of people hadn't
read that book and then went on to read the
book after the Luca Godonnino film. So I think I
think similarly about normal people Like I had read that
book when it came out, and then I loved the adaptation,
(36:48):
and then I read it again, and a lot of
people like, just watch the TV show and then read
the book. So I think that that's sort of the
for me, the marker of a successful adaptation. Yeah, have
you done any adaptations?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Well, Dune was my first film.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's a scary one too, because that's like a huge
piece of IP.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
When I went to see the New Dune with Tivioty,
I was part of it. I was with some trepidation
because I said, it's gonna be the only Dune, you know,
and our main Dune is going to be put on
the shelf. And then I watched it. I said, no, actually,
I think there's room for both of these.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
They're so different, different, so different.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And it's the same, you know, it's the same story,
but there they look different, they feel different, the energy
is different. They cover different territory than some of the
territory that we covered the books.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
There's so much in there's the thick book.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It's just yeah, it's incredible and it covers so many
possible themes and yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's one of the beautiful things about adaptations is a
lot of the time it's up to the filmmaker the
writer to decide what lane they want to take and
like what approach, because you can't. I think it's very
rare that a strict adaptation is successful because they're different
mediums for a reason, you know, And so many of
my favorite books are so internal and then you think about, Okay,
(38:01):
let's adapt this, and then you're like, but nothing actually
really happens in the story. A lot is happening up here.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That's one of the problems with doing Actually it's very internal. Yeah,
you know, we try to solve that with these voiceovers. Yeah,
it's a very difficult challenge.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
That's one of I think the traps of adaptations is
that a lot of the great pieces of literature are
so internal and then you go to write an actual
narrative story and you realize there's not really enough to
sustain two hours. But I think, like what I what
I loved about also the New Dune is a lot
of people then went back and watched your.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Dude, Yeah they both exist now, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
They're so different. And also even just with like CGI
now and how huge it is, and like so much.
Your film was so practical, which is I think magical
in its own way, Like I think that they're so Yeah.
I love seeing all the different interpretations.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's sweet. Yeah, different, different, different interpretation and different level
of sophistication in terms of the process. Yeah, tell me
about this The shar Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Speaking of adaptation, I am doing an adaptation of The Shards,
which was like doing a book that I read when
it came out and was obsessed with. It's Brett Easton Ellis,
who I'm such a fan of. I've read everything he's done,
and the book came out like four or five years ago,
and I was obsessed with it, and I just it's
(39:21):
also very la I grew up here, and it talks
it's so specific about like I took some pulvita doubt,
you know, like, and so reading it while being here
was just really like nostalgic for me for a place
that I am. And yeah, and it's a book that
I love. And Ryan Murphy got the rights and is
adapting it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
And did he reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Did you he called me? It was very kind of
like the synchronicity of it all was really Sometimes things
just happen where you're like, this all worked out just
as it should. And so I read the book. When
it came out. I met with Brett about something else,
but we just had a meeting, like a general meeting.
We were talking about this other thing and he was
and I just was like, I just have to say, like,
I love The Shards. I'm such a fan. And he
(40:04):
was like, oh my gosh, you you would be great
in it. And I was like, well, I don't know
what you're doing with it, but if you ever do
anything with it, I will do whatever you want. Yeah,
let me audition. And he was like, okay, I'll remember that.
And then Ryan Murphy, who really gave me my first
job on American Horror Story, called me and was like,
do you know this book The Shards? And I was
like yes, and I was like, I've actually met from
(40:26):
where I was like years ago, and we talked about
it and he was like, well, I was talking to
Brett about it. I'm going to get the IP and
we both brought your name up at the same time,
and it was like, this really incredible. I'm like honored
that they thought of me. I I didn't when I
was reading it, like I just was like, I want
to be in this world, even though it's full of horrible,
(40:46):
horrific you know, serial killers. I was so drawn to it.
It's like one of those books. What's been so touching
to me is when they announced that they were adapting it,
how many people reached out and were like, I love
this book. Even people that I that I don't necessarily
think consider themselves readers or bookworms found that book and
really like just consumed it. So I think that book
(41:09):
kind of like hooks you and just swallows you in
a good way.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I know you like Shakespeare. I like Shakespeare. I have
an idea of something that we can do together that
should be a lot of fun. So stay tuned. We're
going to have a little shakespeare fest here. Shakespeare Festival
you and me.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to get found out.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Here we go. So this is a little segment that
came up with called the I Roast Shakespeare's best insults. Yeah,
so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I don't want to insult you your scroll.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Oh once I hit you with my first one, you're
going to want to insult me. Okay, here we go.
There's no more faith in thee than in a stewed
prune ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
To your best out of my sight? Thou dost infect
mine eyes?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Mean? I thought you were a nice person.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh, it's getting they actually get more evil.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You are as a candle, the better burnt out hurt.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
If I cry, you can cut it out. More of
your conversation would infect my brain. You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Be no, because I agree. Here is the babe as
loathsome as a toad.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I think my ex one said that to me. The
tartness of his face sours ripe grapes.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
That hurts. It's not true, winemaker, your brain is as
dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Comment section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
This is This is Shakespeare on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Wouldn't it be nice if the haters had to comment
in Shakespeare?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
We should encourage them. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
I am sick when I do. Look on me.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Sometimes simple is the best.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
It's sometimes it's about a dry reading.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Oh, thou art a boil a plague sores.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Really mean thou lump on foul deformity.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
No one's ever called me lump lump.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
No one ever called me boil.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Thank you for you are very exkilled in the art
of insult throwing.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Thank you. I think we should do a revival of
Romeo and Julia.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Oh. I think that's a great idea. I know that
play well. Okay. I can't thank you enough for being
my guest here on the show. What are we even doing?
And especially after that last skit? What?
Speaker 2 (43:53):
What are.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Dressed like? This? Your Shakespeare is unparalleled perfection than you.
May you one day do, Juliette. I think that would
be really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I'm going for nurse, but we'll see, We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
The character actor. Anyway, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I enjoyed a conversation. So we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I'll see you whenever Charlie xx is back on tour.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yes, all right, back to the concert. I love it.
And so where we're going to find you next?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
That's my next thing.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I'm very excited Palm Ral season two okay, with Carol
Burnett and Laura.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And Laura and Laura. I think I should come visit. Please,
it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Please.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Carol Burnet has always been have you met her? I
never met her, but I grew up with her comedy
she and Tim Conway there and Harvey Korman just really
do it for me and it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Still holds up. I have to say, yeah, it really,
it really is still so funny.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
It's a great show. Yeah all right, well thanks for
having Thank you so much. What Are We Even Doing
is a production of iHeartMedia and the Elvis Duran podcast Network,
hosted by me Kyle McLachlin and created and produced by
Full Picture Productions. Yay featuring music by Yata and artwork
(45:11):
by Danica Robinson. For more information about the podcast, please
visit our Instagram and TikTok at wawed with Kyle. Please rate, review,
and subscribe to What Are We Even Doing on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get your podcasts. Exclamation point
Welcome to What Are We even doing? The podcast where
I your host Kyle sit down with actors, musicians, creatives
of all type to discuss their process, the creativity, their ambition,
and how they use social media. Basically, we're going to
get weird here, but in a very good way. Since
this is our first episode, I'd like to introduce myself.
(00:21):
You might remember me from shows like twin Peaks, or
Sex in the City, or even the Internet's Dad. However,
I have decided to embark on a noble quest to
understand the brilliant creativity of youth culture without looking like
I'm trying too hard. Hold on to your hats. Here
we go.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Every great actor starts out as a treat. When I'm
not watching your video as a hot dog or dancing
to Charlie XCX, I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, when you were here, did you think, oh, my
mom's sole.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
No, it's about me and I chose to do with
my cement and I've traumatized a bunch of six year
olds arowny youth girls. I don't know, why do you
not on the podcast? I was like, you've never read
rom you're supposed to be I don't know if you're
laughing at this. And then there were other times where
it was like stand and do nothing, and then I
was like, I'm bored. At this point, They're like, oh God,
just tell us what we can watch. But from my mom,
(01:10):
I knew it was a big compliment. This is like
the comments section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
What are we even doing? What are we even doing?
Ladies and gentlemen today Kaya gerber is with US actress, model,
and self proclaimed bookworm. Yes, when talk about that, because
I am not well read, and.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
You find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I don't have much time. But you went on a
journey when you left school. You left high school, right,
and you decided, you know what, I'm going to go
and I'm going to learn.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
As much as I can.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Everything is it's perfect. Yeah, but I have to ask
you this question first. So do you have a core
memory thinking back about inside out right, a core memory
of when you realize, oh, this is what I want
to do. You do a lot of things, so in particular,
the first thing that was like I want to do this,
I want to be this. Was there a moment or yeah,
(02:11):
you remember, Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I think in terms of literature, my brother is two
years older, and he was covering of Mice and Men
for his class. Okay, and I was probably far too
young to be reading it, but I saw that my
mom was reading it with him, and I was really interested,
so I started reading it with them, right. And then
(02:32):
when it came to do our book reports, I think
I was probably in second grade and you could choose
whichever book, and a lot of people were doing like
you know, Nancy Drew and like the Box Car Children
and stuff, and I chose to do with Mice and Men,
and I traumatized a bunch of you know, six year olds,
and but that I think that was really the thing
(02:52):
that showed me that I really loved that starnback easy
sort of gateway into literature.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, heavy themes, heavy themes.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Did you graduate school?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I did, so I went, yeah, graduate to high school,
and then I went to the University of Washington in Seattle,
and I was on the five year plan. I started
with a love of acting, but didn't feel like that
was something I should study, you know, I needed to
go to college and to study get a career.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, is anyone in your family artists other than you?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, my mom liked the community theater and she could
play the piano. By my dad was also over a
piano player. Yeah, she was one of those sit down
and she could play anything. I know it was correct.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I am too. I studied piano, can't play a thing.
But she was the one who encouraged me in the arts.
So tried school. I actually left school briefly to go
back home, and I worked in a factory doing something horrible,
and then I had a summer stock experience and then
I was like, I think this is what I should do.
(03:56):
I think I'm better at this than I am at
anything else that I'm doing. That's how I stepped into
the world. Yeah, you are now fully engaged in the world.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Which is how we met.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I was similar, where like I did a lot
of community theater and was always in school plays and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You were the second Tree? Was tren number too good
research that popped out to me.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That was my first role.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Really, Yes, I also were the tree you were? And
what Yeah Wiley and the Hairy Man. Yeah, children's theater.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Every great actor starts out as a tree.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I mean you have to. It's crucial, right, I mean,
what is it about a tree that I think is, so,
what did you learn is playing a tree?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What I learned about being Tree number two specifically, was
you still have to go to all the rehearsals. You know.
It's not like, oh, you're the tree, so you get
off easy. And I think this is true for pretty
much every acting job I've had, no matter how big
the part is, the commitment is pretty much the same,
and you know, and if you love it, you want
to bring all of yourself to it. So I think
(04:59):
being Tree number two the act. Actually this is the
part of the story I didn't tell and people don't know.
But I got cast as Tree number two, right, and
I was so committed and I showed up early to
every rehearsal and I knew everyone's line is not just
my one line, and they felt bad for me, I
think because they saw how committed I was amongst all
these other eight year olds who didn't really care. And
(05:19):
they then gave me the role of Anti m like
three months into rehearsal because they were like, this poor
girl is really showing up.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So I got to do a couple performances as Antim.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I would have been happy just to get to be
three number one.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I know, well that was what I was going. But
then when I got Auntim, I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I don't know if I see it was Auntie m but.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I yeah, it was definitely a reach. It was a
reach of a role. But I am a character actor.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yes, you are. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I once had someone tell me that I was a
character actor stuck in a leading actress's body. That's funny,
which is funny and kind of maybe try.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I think it's true because you have a sense of
humor and you're fearless, thank you, and I think that's
a big part of being a character actor, and you
want to take You're more interested in creating the person
as opposed to playing yourself a reversion of yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, do you think that you're a character actor?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yea, because I think leading actor's body. I have a
look and everything, but I've never felt comfortable in that role,
you know, as a leading guy. I'm like, I'm always
I wanted to wonder some difference.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah. I also sometimes find that the leads are kind
of the most boring roles sometimes can be. They can
be where that's like the sort of I guess what
you'd call the secondary characters are really the interesting ones
where you get to play and like there's maybe more
room to create something.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel the same way. I think you
can be stoic, you know, as a leading man, but
I think you can be one of the eccentrics.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, in the outside, which is Yeah, what was your
first like big.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Role, Well, when I my first role ever was Noah
in the in the Church play, which of course Noah's
ar Yeah, yeah, that's the one. And then but the
one that really kind of turned for me, like speaking
of if it was a core memory was I had
(07:10):
dropped out of school, as I mentioned, and then I
that summer I went to summerstock at the Flat Rock
Playhouse in North Carolina, and I found my way there
through it was securitous. I played the lead role in
Look Homeward Angel, which is a play they did every
year there because it's Thomas Wolfe was from Asheville and
North Carolina. He wrote about that community and it was
it's his personal story. Yeah, and I played him as
(07:31):
a young man Eugene, and he's sort of the lead
of the piece.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And it was with an equity cast and from New
York and I think I did pretty good and I
really loved it, you know, and I came away feeling,
oh my god, I think this is something I can
do more than just in high school.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, yeah, and that for me was kind of like, okay,
that started kind of kickstarted me on the gyp.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So you were theater before screen I?
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Oh yeah, screen Dune was my first thing.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I'd never been in front of a camera before. I'd
never done anything in front of television before. I look
at it now and I sort of laugh because I'm like,
I'm clearly clueless. Is there what I'm doing?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
But do you think because you were kind of clueless,
you were fearless or were you?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I was fearless because my training. Yeah, I was still terrified,
but I was Yeah, I had confidence because of my training. Yeah,
you know, I know how to handle this particular character. Yeah,
but that was more of a character.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And the role in Blue Velvet was more like closer
to me.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, which is sometimes scarier.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
It can be very scary. Yeah, what's been this? Have
you had something that's like really scared you that you've done.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, I mean I'm terrified all the time, but everything
I do, but.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
It doesn't show they thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
That's all pretty much all I'm focusing on is not
showing how scared I am. But I just did a
play and it was my first one since I guess
becoming a professional actor, and I started doing theater, so
I was more comfortable doing theater. But then I had
spent so much time doing screen acting jobs and going
back to doing community theater, like I did it at
(09:05):
a little theater here that was you know, ninety nine
seats and you just there's no room to lie at
all when you're doing something like that, and so I
think I just it was terrifying, and it was all
the things that I don't do in front of people,
like cry, scream, sing, dance, like just.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
All the things very emotional for the character. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, And I was working with these three incredible, like
pretty much strictly theater actors who had done so many plays.
So I've kind of felt like in over my head,
but I was so grateful for the experience because I
do think as an actor that's like the best thing
that you can do for your tools. Like I now
go back and I'm like, how have I been working
(09:48):
this long without having had that experience, like, it's so
nice that you got to do that, and then go
on to do do which is a crazy trajectory like.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
This, and then it was like this, Yeah, I say,
I didn't come for relative obscurity. I came from complete obscurity.
And then had you know, my career has been up
and down. Yeah, you will see journey down this road.
It's fascinating and fun and frightening and rewarding and yeah, yeah, anyway,
so this it's nice to hear about a little bit
about your journey.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, it is so fun, though I think like it's
for me because there are so many ups and downs.
I was filming a TV show here and I knew
I had to be in LA and I knew I
wasn't going to be working every day, so I just
decided to do a play at the same time, which
was I don't actually recommend that to anyone who wants
to keep their mental health any role. But it was
(10:39):
really great because I had this other thing, so I
didn't feel like sometimes you can feel like when you're
working you're just giving and not it doesn't feel like,
you know, sure, a full circle thing. And and I
think because I was getting the experience of you know,
like film all day and then I'd go to the
theater and do the play. I was like, oh, like,
this is where they will find me out if I'm
(11:02):
a phony.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Basically, well, you make a really good point, I think,
which is when you're working in film or television, you're
working with a group of actors and cameras this receptive audience, right,
but there's no way to really no, I mean you
kind of know and the director it can be helpful
or not depending on the director. Your other cast mates
can be you know, helpful, But it's the beauty of
the theater, right. Yeah, you get immediate feedback. People are there.
(11:25):
You can tell if they're with you, you can tell
if they're not with you.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Oh yeah, It's such a gift though as an actor,
Like we had this one audience that was it was
just a school and they had come on a Sunday
afternoon and also Mattine Is it's just such a different
experience anyways, but it was a group of these teenage
students who were not studying drama. They just they were
all studying different things, so they were it was a
(11:48):
lot of their first time ever seeing live theater, and
so you know, there's the layer of like are we
allowed to react, which you know in theater you want reactions.
I love like the rowdy or the audience the best
for me as an actor. And they were completely bored
the whole time, and it was it was the greatest
gift because I think we I mean we all spoke
(12:10):
about it after they were snoring. Some of them had
headphones on, some were just eating chips, they were playing
games on their phone. But it was like we learned
more in that one performance than we did, you know,
and all the others, because you can't lie to teenagers.
They will find you out when you have kids.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes, there's authenticity.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, And I was so grateful because I was like,
I thought that joke was funny, and I now realized
that I'm not delivering it right like they. I was
so grateful we had them like halfway through and it
really actually changed and impacted the show a lot.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that authenticity is such. I mean,
you know, obviously there's a generational difference between us. When
I was younger, there was you were really always very
conscious or self conscious I guess about how you presented yourself.
You had, you know, everything had to look good and
be perfect. And I still carry that with me. But
I think recently, as I've become more engaged in social media,
(13:06):
I realize that's not really important. What's important is that
you are authentic to yourself, and that's what a younger
audience is responding to or seems to.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Be, Oh yeah, you absolutely. I mean, I think it
used to be you'd only see movie stars or people
either in magazines or in a newspaper or on a
red carpet, Like you didn't see them in their homes.
You didn't see them in their everyday life, right, And
now with social media, there's like this direct access to people.
I think it humanizes and kind of levels everyone in
(13:39):
a way that can be really helpful. I also think
your social media presence is incredible. It's like such a
I mean, I remember when I met you. I told
you that because I had been watching your videos and
I was like, it's so niche and specific and funny
and incredible, and like to see that it transcends en generations,
(14:01):
like you were coming up with things that people might
wish that they had, the sort I remember I asked you,
I was like, please explain to me how your.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Couple are sitting in the room right now and you're
on behalf of all of their they are, and Nora
is out somewhere, She's be hiding, hiding behind the screen. Anyway,
this is this is, this is the brain Trust.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's it's remarkable work. It truly is. It's brilliant. I've
been thinking a lot about because there's so many there's
so much dichotomy on social media where like the other
day I saw a poet and he was kind of
like a Jack Kerouac type of poet, but he was
on TikTok And then I was like, is it immediately
not Jack Kerouac because he's on TikTok, But then I
(14:43):
was like, maybe Jack Kerouac would have actually had a TikTok,
Like we don't know. And so I find it so
interesting when it like transcends these different things.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, I agree, And I also love the platform. I
just love the fact that there are there's a structure
to it, there's there limits to it, and the form
that you get to play with and to be creative
within that space, I think is a challenge and I
find it fun so and as.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
An actor to be able to create and release your
own content is such a gift. It's you know, like
I know so many people who are just making short
films and releasing them on social media because otherwise, as
an actor, you can feel very much at the mercy
of the industry and to sort of wait around for
an opportunity that like may or may not come. So
(15:29):
I think it's wonderful for that reason too, as you
actually can get your own work out there without waiting
for other people to see the talent. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, it's one of the big changes I think in
the business. I remember back in the day when I
was starting, you would you would send in an audition tape.
I mean, I think people still do that. There was
no way to really let people who are casting or
directors or anyone in the film just get a sense
of who you are without releasing your own stuff. And
you can do that on social right now. It's such
(15:57):
a it's like a it's an amazing thing. Obviously, we
talked about the fact that you are incredibly well read.
We started to talk about that. Yes, that is an
interesting journey to me because there are so many books
that I know of that I'm saying oh I should
know this, or even that my son is now reading
at school, and I'm like, oh, you know, And it's
(16:17):
just finding the time, and you know, there is time.
You have to make the time.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You have to make the time. But also I think
because I graduated high school early. I was sixteen, So.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
While I'm not an overachiever by any means, i.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Am, I ever go I was like straight a's. My
school actually came to me my junior year and they
were like, we have run out of classes for you,
but legally you have to do another year of school,
so you can either retake all the same classes or
just get basically the equivalent of a GED. So I
just chose to do that. But I think because I
(16:52):
never I didn't go to college, so I didn't have
the experience of necessarily being forced to read certain books, right,
So I got to choose what I was reading, which
I was very grateful for. So I moved to New
York after high school. I met this wonderful man named
Jonah who now has a library, which is very fitting
and he's great. I got to like go sell books
(17:13):
with him at a book fair last week. It was
that's my dream. I was like, can I have your job?
But he was at NYU studying literature, and he was
sort of assigning his book list. Okay, you take me
to the bookstore, and he would just be like, read this.
So I was gaining access to books I never would
have picked up at you know mcnully Jackson had I
(17:35):
gone by myself. So I started quite pretentious, I have
to say, Like I was reading Plato and Cameu and like,
I remember my mom's a huge reader. Yeah, I was like,
you've never read Rambone. My mom was like I did
that when I was twenty. You'll get over it one
day and then you'll just read for pleasure. But I was.
I loved it because it was like this whole new
(17:56):
world and I got to choose what I was reading. Yeah,
and then so over time I was like, I also
want to read, you know, fiction and like gripping stories.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think that reading can feel really sort of scary
and like untouchable. But there is a book for everyone.
And my favorite thing to do is a sign reading
to people based off what I think they'll like.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Oh good, you're going to have to give me an assignment.
I started with Hardy Boys, of course, Okay, I was
actually a really voracious reader when I was a kid.
I read everything. My parents we didn't have a huge library.
They had like the readers, Digest, condensed books, praise. So
I read like Pepillon and I read all these you know,
I've just'sl I just find stuff, you know, I really
(18:40):
wanted to read. And I had my library card. Incredible,
you have a library cards, the library cards they do.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But libraries sadly are dying and I don't want them to.
And now I just like I'm constantly reading, and I
think I think as an actor, there's so much time
that you're sitting and waiting around, so there's so much
time to read, and like, there's only so much time
you can spend on social media. I try to avoid
it for the most part, unless i'm finding like your
(19:08):
videos basically that actually bring you joy and not leave
you feeling worse than before.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We try to do.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, well that's the that's kind of hard to find
now on social media. So I think that stuff is
so important. And so when I'm not doing when I'm
not watching your video as a dog or dancing to
Charlie XCX, I'm reading.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
A book, isn't she wonderful.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Gosh that was was that where we met?
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, I think we were. We're in the elevator that
one time saw you and then but I think that
was right at that time. That was so fun and yeah,
she's just a delightful human. Yeah. And I you know,
I just thought she's so talented and then we met
and she's so gracious.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I was with a large group of people and she
took time and said hello to everybody and you know,
very kind. She didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, And she hasn't. I've known her for a long
time and she hasn't changed at all, which is I think.
I mean, of course she evolves as a person, but
like she's been working so hard for so long that
this sort of what felt like overnight sort of success
was so not that, which is I often feel like
true people like to say, oh it was an overnight thing,
(20:15):
and the person that it happened to is like, I've
been working for her, yeah, so long. And that's true
for Charlie. So I think she was really ready and
grounded and knew who she was and it really was
about the world catching up to her, not about her
changing for the world.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and she just she handles it so
so well, and she's such a terrific performer. She comes
out with energy.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, when you see her up there,
You're like, I could never approach this person. I could never.
I mean, yeah, so strong commands a whole entire arenas
and then is such a person and such a wonderful,
generous person to talk to. But I also wonder like
when you have moments like that, because I'll have you know,
like we went and saw Charlie and it was like
(20:56):
the whole cast of overcompensating. Yes, And I wish I
journed Old Moore remember these things more because I'm like,
that probably was a moment in your life. Was that
normal at that moment in your life.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
For me to go, No, I hadn't got to a
concert for so long, okay, but it was really fun
to be with friends, like, oh this is great, so
many and the crew and it was there and it
was just so comfortable and so and so nice. And
we got to support a friend.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I mean she's a new friend to me, but she's
a friend, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Oh yeah. And also I'm like, well, I have like
kids one day and be like I was that.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Charlie sweat that sounds kind of like me right now.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I'm like, this might be that.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, so funny. Yeah, my son is like, what, Dad,
what's going on? Well, when you were younger, did you think, oh,
my mom's so cool?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
No, I still don't think she's. I mean I think
she's I think she's a really cool person. Yes, she's
a total dork lady. But I will say the older
I've gotten, the more I can take kind of a
step back and see and appreciate what she's done. And
I remember watching they did this supermodel documentary on Apple.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I remember, yeah, and I watched.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It and I was like sobbing in tears, and I
called her and I was like, I think, you know,
when she's my mom, I'm not asking her, like, so,
why did you decide to do Playboy or what how
did you do the Pepsi commercial? Like I wasn't thinking
about that stuff, And so to actually hear her story
and I was like, I never I failed to ask
her all of these interesting things. I really that was
(22:23):
like a huge moment for me where I realized, especially
because she didn't come from a family in the industry
at all, so I'm like, how did you navigate? Like,
I don't know what I would do without her? Yeah,
So I'm now there's like so much more curiosity as
I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I think it's normal. Yeah, we begin to sort of
look away. You're no longer focus here on yourself, focus
on out in the world.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And there is a curiosity about my first eighteen years
or like.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean there's no me. Yeah, there's nobody. It's about me,
about me, you know, I'm you know, I'm sixty six
and it's still all about me.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
No, I'm just yeah, if you do it right, it's
still it's gonna always be about it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It's just interesting to me, you know, growing up with
someone obviously so successful at what she did. Yeah, that
at some point in time there will be a curiosity.
But and Randy too, just about his success and why
and the choices, and you know, just as a learning mechanism.
And my wife, Desiree is so good at talking to
(23:18):
our son about She's a really good life lesson giver.
So if there's something that happens, she will frame it
for him in a way that's like that I didn't
have that experience. And she just says this is actually
a very good thing. And they will tell you why.
He's got a great mom amazing, So yeah, it's really
(23:39):
it is.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Good to have. Like my mom's quite like that. She's
very She's very much like, let's go through it together,
like this has happened to me, let's talk about it.
And my dad is kind of more of a quiet,
understanding person. But then every once in a while, like
we'll go on a walk or something and he'll say
align to me and I'm like, yeah, I mean, work
(24:00):
of genius.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And you're paying attention.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
But it's like it's really they're they're sort of more rare.
My mom's like very much like talk into therapy, like
has always been that way, and my dad is like quieter,
but then he'll just drop a line that like rocks
my world and I'll think about it for, you know, years.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I want to ask you a little bit about the
modeling world and as you're working through a series, if
you're working with photographer and you're doing a series of
looks and things, and that process of telling the story
and the kind of character that you develop. I find
it fascinating that you actually it is a creative journey
(24:41):
and you are telling a story. I mean, and you're
using movement, and you're using you know, obviously a light movement,
what you're wearing and everything. I would love to hear
your experience with that from that perspective.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, it's I'm happy that you see it that way.
I think a lot of people don't see it that way,
but I always saw it that way. It's such a performance,
and I think because I had been doing theater for
so long when I started modeling, I kind of had
to view it as a performance. Otherwise I'm so uncomfortable
in front of a camera, which people wouldn't believe. But
(25:13):
like when I do red carpets or like have to
show up as myself, I don't. It's like I've never
had my picture taken before. Like I'm shaking. I get
so nervous. I know so many actors who feel that
way too, who are like they get so nervous to
have their picture taken. So I, even just for myself,
started developing characters so that I was able to go
(25:35):
stand and perform in front of a camera and not
feel so shy because I was really shy as a kid.
And you know, I started modeling when I was like fourteen,
and that's scary of all these grown ups looking at you,
and you're like, if I do a bad job, all
these people's hard work is going to go to waste.
And I think as a model, and I feel this
way about acting to some extent, but really as a model,
(25:55):
like you're there to showcase everyone's art. You know. It's
like the photographs, art, the lighting, the makeup, the clothes,
our art, the hair is computer art.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It's like yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And so for me, it was always like I don't
want to let these people down, and I want to
tell their story and like figure out the best way
that I can tell the story that everyone is here
to tell. So I always would come up with little
characters and little things that entertained me on set, and
I would rarely tell people I was doing it. But
you know, like I don't think I would have been
(26:27):
able to confidently or even walk a runway like confidently,
Like that's so not my personality. Like I walk into
a room and I'm like this, but then you have
to you know, you are going and walking a runway
and you have to look confidence. I would come up
with different sort of character characters, which.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think is the journey towards acting, it makes sense
that you would then be drawn into the world where
you're now actually creating a character for a long, longer time,
longer time period.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah, And the more that a photographer was like, this
is the story we're telling, this is sort of who
this person is. I would get really excited, Like whenever
I would get to a set and there was a
storyline or there was a very clear sort of idea
of the story we were telling, that would get me
really excited. And then there were other times where it
was like stand and do nothing, and then I was like,
(27:10):
I'm bored and I feel uncomfortable. So I appreciate the
part of it that, Yeah, I think it in a
lot of ways, like prepared me to be comfortable and
to get comfortable also living in my head with a
character for a long time and sustaining that, and like
also not sharing a lot of that process with people,
Like I'm not really the kind of actor that's like,
(27:33):
this is my preparation that I did and this is
And some people do that, and I appreciate when they
do because I like hearing how other people do it,
But I don't know how to talk about it really
like what happens in my mind. And so I think
I got comfortable doing that from modeling because I would
just to entertain myself, like create entire people and then
go be them, and oftentimes people wouldn't know if they
would just think I was being myself.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah yeah in life. Yeah, I also think an editor
a good editor on a shoot, Yeah, it can be
incredibly helpful. I just sort of tell the story. To
help tell the story, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I think I'm also curious how you feel about this
because it used to be all film, and so I
felt like there was so much and I've shot a
lot on film as well. There's so much attention on
you as the subject when it's on film, and they're
not obsessing over little things. And now with digital, everyone's
looking at a computer screen and so you're kind of
like up there by yourself a lot of the time,
(28:37):
and they're looking at you, but they're not really looking
at you. They're looking at the clothes or the hair
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So I always found that interesting where everyone was like,
I'm standing up there alone and everyone's like over there
looking at the computer screen.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
You're right, it has changed. Yeah, when I first started
it with film, there was no video village, you know,
was away looking at something. Yeah, and true. When I
started early with taking photographs for certain things, there was
no kind of trying to look at what was already
filmed and shot. It was really about if I felt
like there was and I still is the energy of
(29:10):
capturing something special through the lens, which is the communication
between you, the camera and the photographer. Yeah, and now
it's kind of been I don't know, it's been sort
of weak in somehow. And similar with him. I remember
working with when we shot Blue Velvet with David, there
(29:30):
was no no monitor. He would sit right in front
of the camera, usually something in the dolly or right
there next to it, and he was watching exactly as
close to what the lens was seeing as as the operator,
you know. And I think so he was feeling it
like the photographer would feel and said, that's right, you know,
(29:52):
he knows, you know what.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I mean, an instinct thing.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah. Do you have someone that you've worked with a
couple of times, or someone that you would consider maybe
a mentor or partner.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Or I mean I have I've never worked with the
same director twice, but I've I've worked with Rachel Sennett,
Oh yeah, a bit. And I and my first film,
my first film that anyone saw, was Bottoms. So I
really felt like her and Emma Seligman, our director, and
(30:22):
Iodebris were like especially in comedy, because I never thought
I would ever be in a comedy. They were like
they felt I just learned so much and they weren't like,
let me take you under my wing. But I just
watched them and learned so much from them. And then
I've I've been on this TV show, Palm Royal. We
just did a second season, and Kristen Wigg has been
(30:43):
like just a dream of a mentor, especially in comedy.
I'm so happy to hear She's just like the loveliest
you know, exceeds all expectations, and I just get to
watch her work every day, and that's I'm such a sponge,
Like I just sit and kind of watch. A lot
of people are like, are you okay, and I'm like, no,
I'm just I'm just processing information, learning, And I think,
(31:06):
especially early on in your career, it's wise to just
kind of like observe as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
There's so much you can learn. I still learn working
with different actors, actors and actress is just kind of
the process. And that's one of the things I love
is just watching someone's process. Sometimes it's out of curiosity.
Sometimes it's out of oh, I really like that, or sometimes.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, or never do that. Sometimes it's I never want
to be that person on the set, And that's just as.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Valuable, I think completely.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Like I'm so grateful to have had all ends of
the spectrum, and I'm sure as you keep working, you
just get even more and more and more. Like I
work with Carol Burnett, who's just a legend. I never
thought I would get to work with Carol Burnett. She's
the easiest person to work with. She's so prepared, she's
so funny, she's so lovely, she's always in a good mood.
(31:56):
And I'm like, if anyone had any excuse to be
a total diva, Carobernet could get away with murder as
far as I'm concerned. And she's the loveliest, So like
that has been such a lesson for me, and oftentimes
the people who are really incredible people that you look
up to conduct themselves in a really kind, lovely way
on set. I found.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, she's a true pro and forever and she comes
with a tremendous mount of gratitude and skill, and I
think she you know, it's one of the things working
on a set like that. The energy of this of
the space, the creative space is so important. It's important
to me, and it needs to be a place where
there is acceptance, there's freedom, there's there's just a creative
energy that flows and anytimes that there's an interruption from
(32:40):
that and it can come into verry different types of forms.
And it hasn't happened to me that frequently it's becomes
not a pleasure and not creative. It becomes work and
an effort and you just can't wait to finish.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I know. And I really, I really don't subscribe to
the belief of like it needs to be a struggle
to make interesting art. And I mean, like, I really
think the best art is created in a safe place.
And one of the people that taught me that was
Laura Dern.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Like she she's great.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
She is so great about having strong creative boundaries but
also being so lovely to everyone. And I really was like, Oh,
that's where incredible work happens is when everyone feels safe. Yeah,
And I wonder how much of that was learned because,
like you, David Lynch was like one of her big mentors.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, he's so my first you think with David and
that was exactly The environment that he created was one
of safety. I went on and to work with other
directors where that was not necessarily a priority, and I
didn't really enjoy that. You know, you you do what
you have to do, and you create your own space,
you know what I mean. You you adapt and adjust.
But when it exists among the actors, and you know,
(33:48):
David is very specific about his casting, you know, you
create a little family, you know. Yeah, and then there's
a and there's a real connection and joy and love.
That's just just innate. Yeah, that environment, Yes, it's such
a place that I love to work from.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's so funny because like when I did the play,
I was like, God, this is going to be so
hard for my parents to watch. I was playing a
woman who was really suicidal, had a lot of anxiety,
and like, I'm a firm believer of like, you don't
become other people necessarily, it's just like you dial up
or down different parts of yourself. And I was like,
this is going to be really hard, especially for my mom.
(34:26):
To watch because I give like a suicide voicemail to
my mother that's really upsetting. And my first thing going
in I was like, how am I going to cry
every night? And then suddenly I was like, how am
I going to stop crying? After this scene? And on
opening night my parents were there and I was like, think,
I just was, you know, doing the voicemail, and I
knew my mom was in the audience, and I was
(34:48):
just like, oh gosh, my poor mother. Yeah, and we
kind of got off stage and I was like, Okay.
She's like that was great. You're so brave. I was like,
but like, did you cry? And she's like no. I
was like, she's like, well, I knew it wasn't you.
I'm like, yeah, but you weren't moved to tears. She
(35:09):
was like no. But that's why it's kind of fun
to have parents who are not actors, is like they're
just they just think I'm insane for doing what I.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Do, right, But it's incredibly brave.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, which as an actor coming off stage, you don't
necessarily want to hear that was brave. But for my mom,
I knew it was a big compliment, yes, but from
anyone else I would have been like, okay, yeah, yeah,
that was brave.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, so interesting that you were more concerned about how
she might feel then oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah and she was fine. Yeah, I mean truly, not
a tear fell. She was completely fine.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
To give your mom more credit, it's like, oh, yeah,
she's fine with that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah. But they can handle it. They're pretty they can
handle I think at this point they're like, we can
pretty much handle anything.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah. Yeah, good, Yeah, that's a good sign. You're doing
something right.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, I think they are doing something right all right.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Books to film.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
They're starting to do film first and then write the
book after, which is interesting. Adapting books, especially really Loved
Ip is scary because it can go south, as we've learned, No,
but then there's also like incredible examples and like, I
really think the marker of a successful adaptation is anyone
(36:25):
who hadn't read the book, watches it and then wants
to read the book, Like I think Call Me by
Your Name was a great example of that. A lot
of especially in the US, a lot of people hadn't
read that book and then went on to read the
book after the Luca Godonnino film. So I think I
think similarly about normal people Like I had read that
book when it came out, and then I loved the adaptation,
(36:48):
and then I read it again, and a lot of
people like, just watch the TV show and then read
the book. So I think that that's sort of the
for me, the marker of a successful adaptation. Yeah, have
you done any adaptations?
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Well, Dune was my first film.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
That's a scary one too, because that's like a huge
piece of IP.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
When I went to see the New Dune with Tivioty,
I was part of it. I was with some trepidation
because I said, it's gonna be the only Dune, you know,
and our main Dune is going to be put on
the shelf. And then I watched it. I said, no, actually,
I think there's room for both of these.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
They're so different, different, so different.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
And it's the same, you know, it's the same story,
but there they look different, they feel different, the energy
is different. They cover different territory than some of the
territory that we covered the books.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
There's so much in there's the thick book.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It's just yeah, it's incredible and it covers so many
possible themes and yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's one of the beautiful things about adaptations is a
lot of the time it's up to the filmmaker the
writer to decide what lane they want to take and
like what approach, because you can't. I think it's very
rare that a strict adaptation is successful because they're different
mediums for a reason, you know, And so many of
my favorite books are so internal and then you think about, Okay,
(38:01):
let's adapt this, and then you're like, but nothing actually
really happens in the story. A lot is happening up here.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That's one of the problems with doing Actually it's very internal. Yeah,
you know, we try to solve that with these voiceovers. Yeah,
it's a very difficult challenge.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
That's one of I think the traps of adaptations is
that a lot of the great pieces of literature are
so internal and then you go to write an actual
narrative story and you realize there's not really enough to
sustain two hours. But I think, like what I what
I loved about also the New Dune is a lot
of people then went back and watched your.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Dude, Yeah they both exist now, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
They're so different. And also even just with like CGI
now and how huge it is, and like so much.
Your film was so practical, which is I think magical
in its own way, Like I think that they're so Yeah.
I love seeing all the different interpretations.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
That's sweet. Yeah, different, different, different interpretation and different level
of sophistication in terms of the process. Yeah, tell me
about this The shar Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Speaking of adaptation, I am doing an adaptation of The Shards,
which was like doing a book that I read when
it came out and was obsessed with. It's Brett Easton Ellis,
who I'm such a fan of. I've read everything he's done,
and the book came out like four or five years ago,
and I was obsessed with it, and I just it's
(39:21):
also very la I grew up here, and it talks
it's so specific about like I took some pulvita doubt,
you know, like, and so reading it while being here
was just really like nostalgic for me for a place
that I am. And yeah, and it's a book that
I love. And Ryan Murphy got the rights and is
adapting it.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
And did he reach out to you?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Did you he called me? It was very kind of
like the synchronicity of it all was really Sometimes things
just happen where you're like, this all worked out just
as it should. And so I read the book. When
it came out. I met with Brett about something else,
but we just had a meeting, like a general meeting.
We were talking about this other thing and he was
and I just was like, I just have to say, like,
I love The Shards. I'm such a fan. And he
(40:04):
was like, oh my gosh, you you would be great
in it. And I was like, well, I don't know
what you're doing with it, but if you ever do
anything with it, I will do whatever you want. Yeah,
let me audition. And he was like, okay, I'll remember that.
And then Ryan Murphy, who really gave me my first
job on American Horror Story, called me and was like,
do you know this book The Shards? And I was
like yes, and I was like, I've actually met from
(40:26):
where I was like years ago, and we talked about
it and he was like, well, I was talking to
Brett about it. I'm going to get the IP and
we both brought your name up at the same time,
and it was like, this really incredible. I'm like honored
that they thought of me. I I didn't when I
was reading it, like I just was like, I want
to be in this world, even though it's full of horrible,
(40:46):
horrific you know, serial killers. I was so drawn to it.
It's like one of those books. What's been so touching
to me is when they announced that they were adapting it,
how many people reached out and were like, I love
this book. Even people that I that I don't necessarily
think consider themselves readers or bookworms found that book and
really like just consumed it. So I think that book
(41:09):
kind of like hooks you and just swallows you in
a good way.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I know you like Shakespeare. I like Shakespeare. I have
an idea of something that we can do together that
should be a lot of fun. So stay tuned. We're
going to have a little shakespeare fest here. Shakespeare Festival
you and me.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, okay, I'm going to get found out.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Here we go. So this is a little segment that
came up with called the I Roast Shakespeare's best insults. Yeah,
so go ahead.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I don't want to insult you your scroll.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Oh once I hit you with my first one, you're
going to want to insult me. Okay, here we go.
There's no more faith in thee than in a stewed
prune ahead.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
To your best out of my sight? Thou dost infect
mine eyes?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Mean? I thought you were a nice person.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh, it's getting they actually get more evil.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
You are as a candle, the better burnt out hurt.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
If I cry, you can cut it out. More of
your conversation would infect my brain. You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Be no, because I agree. Here is the babe as
loathsome as a toad.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I think my ex one said that to me. The
tartness of his face sours ripe grapes.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
That hurts. It's not true, winemaker, your brain is as
dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Comment section of my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
This is This is Shakespeare on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Wouldn't it be nice if the haters had to comment
in Shakespeare?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
We should encourage them. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
I am sick when I do. Look on me.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Sometimes simple is the best.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
It's sometimes it's about a dry reading.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Oh, thou art a boil a plague sores.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Really mean thou lump on foul deformity.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
No one's ever called me lump lump.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
No one ever called me boil.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Thank you for you are very exkilled in the art
of insult throwing.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Thank you. I think we should do a revival of
Romeo and Julia.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Oh. I think that's a great idea. I know that
play well. Okay. I can't thank you enough for being
my guest here on the show. What are we even doing?
And especially after that last skit? What?
Speaker 2 (43:53):
What are.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Dressed like? This? Your Shakespeare is unparalleled perfection than you.
May you one day do, Juliette. I think that would
be really wonderful.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I'm going for nurse, but we'll see, We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
The character actor. Anyway, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I enjoyed a conversation. So we'll catch up soon.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I'll see you whenever Charlie xx is back on tour.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yes, all right, back to the concert. I love it.
And so where we're going to find you next?
Speaker 2 (44:24):
That's my next thing.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I'm very excited Palm Ral season two okay, with Carol
Burnett and Laura.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And Laura and Laura. I think I should come visit. Please,
it would be fun.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Please.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Carol Burnet has always been have you met her? I
never met her, but I grew up with her comedy
she and Tim Conway there and Harvey Korman just really
do it for me and it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Still holds up. I have to say, yeah, it really,
it really is still so funny.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
It's a great show. Yeah all right, well thanks for
having Thank you so much. What Are We Even Doing
is a production of iHeartMedia and the Elvis Duran podcast Network,
hosted by me Kyle McLachlin and created and produced by
Full Picture Productions. Yay featuring music by Yata and artwork
(45:11):
by Danica Robinson. For more information about the podcast, please
visit our Instagram and TikTok at wawed with Kyle. Please rate, review,
and subscribe to What Are We Even Doing on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get your podcasts. Exclamation point
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