July 23, 2025 • 35 mins
On this week's In Service Of, The Black Keys join hosts Steve Baltin and Sage Bava for a wide-ranging conversation on the band's new album, being on the road, collaborations and an insane story of how their music helped fuel the raid that took out Osama Bin Laden.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, it's Steve Balton. Welcome to in Service Hub, where
this week Saves Bob and I sit down with Dan
Wilson and Patrick Carney with Black Eyes. This was a
really fun interview on so many subjects. I couldn't even
begin where to start. We covered a wide range from
their record hangs to touring to a crazy story about
(00:29):
their music being played on the Raid of in Laden.
I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as we did.
Thanks well, congratulations on the new record. It's funny and
(00:52):
this is my podcast host stage and we were just
discussing the fact, you know, it's a wonderful record, but
both of us really gravitated to the last song. It's
so different.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh cool, Thank you. We wrote that one with our
buddy Daniel Tashin, who lives in town and one of
the first people that Pat met here in town. But
that one happened so quickly we almost overlooked it.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You know, isn't that the best ones always happened? Jimmy
Cliff told me, he wrote, you know harder they come
in ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, we've got our buddy Leon Michaels and Tommy Brenneck
playing on those on that track and we cut it
live and it was one take.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Nice. Well, it's interesting, did you work with a lot
of different people on this record again, because when we
talked last year, you brought in a lot of new,
you know energy.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, we continued that to a certain degree. I don't
think we overdid it, you know, I think each song
relied on them, maybe a couple of key people. But
you know, we we find it really fun to do
the collaborating.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We do we like you said, there's an energy there
and we really feed off of that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Well. Yeah, and again you guys have you know, both
produced and you know, worked with other people. Say you're
used to it, you understand the spirit of collaboration.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely, it's more fun for us.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
We really like it. You know.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It's interesting too because you know, I was thinking about
it and it's like, I know you switched. I can't
it's early in the morning here, but I know you
switched management too. And it's funny because any type of
change I have found from talking to bands can bring
in a new vitality and new energy because you're still
now bouncing ideas off new people. Do you feel like
(02:49):
that also? Kind of infused the record with a little
bit of a new energy. You know.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I don't think, yeah, management really comes into play too
much when it has to, you know, comes the creative decisions.
But I think you know, in this instance, you know,
what really was effective on this record was that we
I think that we were really proud of the work
we had just done on Ohio Players. And then we're
kind of aware of like, even though you know, we
(03:17):
felt this is one of our strongest albums, like what
can happen if things aren't all completely lined up appropriately,
you know, and like we can only do so much
on our side, you know, the writing and recording, the
performing live, like the overseeing artwork. I mean, it's like
a it's a picking the band, reorhearsing the band. It's
(03:38):
a and on top of that, you know, there's other
pursuits that we have. We have families, stand as a
family at a label, and you know, so when it
comes to like the rollout of a record, to see
something just kind of like maybe just fall flat for
various reasons. And I think it's just like it adds
a little bit of fire to us to just want
to like I guess just make more music, you know,
(04:00):
And in this instance, for no rinnow Flowers, I think,
you know, it kind of started with the idea that
the last album we'd worked with some kind of heroes
of ours, like Noel Gallagher and back and and you know,
we did a lot of material with those guys, and
I think for this one, I think we we we
(04:21):
wanted to do something similar, but we went right to
the source of these. We were trying to look for
some songwriters that are just kind of you know, stuck
around and been putting out good work for a long time.
And the guy that came to mind first from Dan
suggested we check out Rick Knowles, who when Dan produced
the Lona del Rey record Ultra Violence, you know, he
(04:41):
had noticed that Rick was involved in quite a few
of Lana's tracks, and we reached out to Rick, and
like a week later, he happened to be coming to
Nashville for the first time in his like fifty year career.
He had never been here before, and we happened to
be like, well, do you want to work and he said,
of course, he came to the studio and within two
days we had written four songs and it became like
(05:05):
a really fruitful collaborative component of the album. And you know,
one of the first songs we wrote was the title track,
No Raindow Flowers, and it was great to get in
a room with like this heavy hitter songwriter who was
just there. And the way that song started, like you know,
it was was Rick asked Dan, like, do you have
any song titles? I like to start with the song title,
(05:26):
and Dan throughout the title No Raindow Flowers, and then
from there Rick's like, well, how would you sing that?
And so like in the space of nothing and just
the title, Dan now has the title and the melody happening,
and Rick then just helps us compose it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It was like with chords that we never would have
come up with on our own in a million years.
But it was also very easy and quit and very quick.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Writing with a guy that plays piano like that was
our first time with so the voicings that he was
throwing behind the melody were just something that honestly wouldn't
not be considered by, you know, a guitar player necessarily,
you know, they were they were very kind of different,
which was great, and so like we we we we
(06:12):
didn't really necessarily use some of those parts, but but
it influenced the harmony throughout the whole track.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Very cool. Well, since stage plays both, dude, I really
am liked just this morning and like Brainded stage plays
both guitar and piano. I'm gonna let her take over
for a bit, all right.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, I was curious the joy that you talk about
with collaboration feels so infused in the music, and you know,
within your own dynamic of collaboration, you know, having been
doing this for the past, you know, so many years,
how did that evolve for this new record and was
(06:55):
there anything different that was really interesting to you about
this process first ones in the past.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, yeah, like we said that that was the first
time we'd ever written with anyone on piano. And then
so we thought, who's another piano player we love and
we were like, Scott Storage. We've been fans of him forever.
We've obsessed over videos of Scott in the studio just
playing the keyboard like a mad scientist for years, you know.
(07:27):
So we reached out to him, We talked him into
coming to Nashville, and it was incredible and that was
something you know, we hadn't done that before, and so
you know, I think every decision we made for this record,
none of it like really made a whole lot of
sense necessarily, but it ended up feeling really good.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, like working with Scott, you know, he's you know,
he's like a legendary for some of his hip hop
productions obviously, but there was something in his playing that
was always you know, spoke to Dan and I and
when we finally got him in the studio and we
put him in front of you know, actual.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know, a harpsichord and and all these synthesizers and
actual key acoustic keyboards, he really flipped out. Yeah, we
hadn't said, he really hadn't recorded like this before, which
kind of blew our minds.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And but it became clear this guy's like a really
heavy hitting like musician, like in a way that you know,
he's topped here his feel the way he plays, and
I think, you know, heavily misunderstood. So I think it
was great to kind of like contextualize his playing into
into what we were working on. And then from there,
(08:44):
you know, Scott doesn't really write like it does write lyrics,
and so we were it gave us a cool thing
where we were able to bring in like an additional
collaborator on those tracks, Like we brought in Daniel Toshan
for Baby Girl, and a couple of tracks we brought
in Desmond Child and that was like, you know, the
most odd couple pairing Desmond Child.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
The most eccentric duo is Scotch and Desmond Child at
us in one studio with the studio was about to explode.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But to answer your question back, how they collaborative collaboration
has changed over the like twenty five years we've been
working together. I mean, I think it's always just slowly
been evolving from us not really us knowing what we
kind of wanted to do or wish we could do,
to like getting slowly better at it. And there's there's
a lot of growing parts of that. Like in the
(09:35):
early days, I think we were pretty insular for various reasons.
I think the main one for artists to be like
that is like they aren't really secure enough with what
they're doing, so it has to be done in like
a kind of isolated spot, Like it has to you
have to give yourself a like enough space to be
able to understand your chops, to learn where your deficiencies are,
(09:58):
and then and then it's really easy to bring someone
in to kind of learn from them, you know, so
it took us years to be able to really get
in a room with someone like and we got Danger Mouse.
I was our first collaborator, get him around and like,
you know, learn from him. And from there it was
just we were kind of off to the races. You know.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So interesting how new energies can elicit new inspiration. What's
one of the most surprising or memorable parts about working
with that core group? And and how did you know,
how did you find the voicings of the piano and
and that different instrumentation like perhaps influence new lyricism, new
(10:39):
ideas of like messaging, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You know the thing about the working with Rick is
he yeah, he's a producer as well, so like the
way that he was approaching stuff. It was cool because
they were they were definitely you know, problems that we
were trying to you know, or like, you know, trying
to figure out how to compose this song, put it together,
and you know, he would hear it one way, we'd
hear the other thing, and we'd try it both ways.
(11:05):
And it was a good process to just kind of
see it through and it was always kind of like
some of his stuff was right and some of our
stuff was right, and it was like you just became clear,
like what you get out of a collaboration is if
you're open to it, you get you know, more than
some of the pieces involved. And so that that's the
(11:26):
magic there.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting. I was going to say, you know,
how gratifying is it at this point that you can
you know, it's kind of like putting together your own
you know, I'm a big basketball fan. It's kind of
like putting together your own all star team. So when
you're sitting in the studio with Scott and Desmond, who
have both done so much, how gratifying is it to
(11:47):
you know, be able to work with these people. And
you know it's funny too because you know, like all
basketball teams, you know, you can put the best players
together and the chemistry may suck. So at what point
did you really like this pairing? Are these pairings you
were doing for this were really coming together?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean instantly with Rick, I think we knew it
was very strong because it just started on such a
high and you know, you know, being in this studio
with Scott and Desmond and like, we mentioned that we
need some strings for this song because it kind of
has a Philly Soul type of feel to it or
something like that, and He's like gets us on FaceTime
(12:28):
with Larry Gold who did all the strings for the
Philly Soul records. It was like incredible, you know, It's
like multiple generations and music makers in the room facetiming.
It was incredible, you know, and the whole experiences with
the collaboration, it kind of just what you end up
(12:52):
hearing is us reacting to the person in the room,
you know.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I think as far as that, yeah, when you
get when you're assembling these guys, like a guy like Scott,
you know, we didn't we didn't know. So we invited
him to Nashville and we spent five days with him
just trying to feel him out and get to understand
where his real strengths were. And and so by the
time he came back, we we knew kind of like
(13:24):
this paramount with Desmond, this paramount with Daniel, and it's
jump off on this stuff. But I think that the
cool thing that Dan and I realized is that, yeah,
it's like if the core of the song is Dan
and I. Then people could come in and and we
can work with them and it and it ends up
still feeling like the Black Keys, you know, because we'll
(13:45):
you know, we're only playing the stuff that we want
to play and stuff we like, because we're editing the
whole thing and pushing ideas through. So it's like getting
to filter your idea through, you know, someone else's brain
and then getting someone else's to you know, to sit
there and show you like how they would approach it.
And it's a you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Such a thrill honestly, and it makes it so exciting
and just the just knowing that every day when you
walk into that studio, anything is possible. And I mean,
you know, when I know that I'm about to walk
into the studio with somebody like Scott, I'm just like excited,
like it's Christmas.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I feel like that that just happens a lot for us.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I also think what we do, we're very.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Blessed in that way.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I think there's an interesting thing though, to a lot
of times bands, like throughout history, they would go work
with a new producer in a new studio, and all
of a sudden, the band would have like has a
whole new sound, Like every sonic element is now different,
whether it's like Nirvana Nevermind to in Utero or something
like that, and sometimes just really fascinate and works, and
sometimes it doesn't work. And I think what's fascinat about
(14:56):
Dan is that we we've recorded our stuff ourselves the
entire time, So there's there's this aesthetic change that sort
of happened over time as we've gotten different abilities or taste,
but it's all rooted in this kind of sonic template.
So as we bring in influences to songwriting and stuff,
it is, it's it's always gonna kind of sound like that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That's interesting though, And that's one more and then let's
say shake over again. But it's funny because you say
then stuff that you like because you're you know, editing
it and you're playing it. But what is interesting, it's like,
you know, I talk about this with artists all the time.
When you hear someone cover your music, you get to
hear their interpretation and it might change something for you
a little bit or give you a new idea. And
(15:46):
so having these new people and do you find that
it also changes a little bit what you like? Or
opens you up to new things that maybe you didn't
realize you like, but when you hear you know, other
great players come into it, you're like, oh shit, that
really works for us.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, I think so, I mean, like I think over
and over again, that's the whole point.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, So were the songs on this record than that
you were really surprised by how they came out, and like,
you know, it's funny because the way we both mentioned Moon,
I also love Baby Girl, I also loves I listened
to everything all the way through. But there's the one
about on repeats.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, absolutely, like song like
No Rain, having that having that synth, that pumping synth
bass on there, that's not really something we've had before.
And Rick played that live, which is which was really cool.
(16:44):
And having the driving piano on Baby Girl. We've never
had a song driven by piano ever, you know. So, yeah,
it's fun to it's fun to like open ourselves up
to this stuff. I mean, I think we have definitely
been heavily influenced also by spinning records, collecting forty fives
(17:07):
and DJing, playing records out and how crowds react to
different records. You know what I mean, I think it
definitely opens our minds to sonic possibilities.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That's been a huge thing is the doing our record
hanging is spinning our forty fives is like realizing, like
what what works? You know, when you're playing music that
probably ninety percent of people in the room don't know
at all, to see how something is going to resonate,
you know, because you know music like this is why
(17:36):
like payola as illegals, Like the more exposure you have
to something, the more you're gonna like it. And like
that's why, like it actually would make sense to pay
a radio station to play your song because it's going
to become a hit, you know what I mean. It's true.
So like if you're playing something to somebody that they
don't know, then you're you're like at a disadvantage. It's
like it's got to have all these components, and what
ends up work happening is the records that work in
(17:58):
that context are records that have like an economy of
space where it's like it just hits in. There's this
great intro, there's a verse, there's like maybe a solo section,
there's there's these things. No matter it's a real formula.
But what it is is that it never drags, and
when it does drag, the whole room drags down and
you and you see it. And so that was it's
(18:18):
like a nightmare when that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, and you're spinning records.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But you can't make every song like that like that.
That doesn't apply to Neon Moon, Like you know, Neo
Moon is not one of those songs. That's just that's
like a you know, go for a nighttime drive type
of song or something. But baby Girl for sure in
our Rain of Flowers, you know. So it's just it's
kind of it's exciting to be doing something for over
twenty years and feeling like, you know, at least personally,
(18:44):
we feel like we're doing our greatest shit. And I
think that's that's all that matters, and that's where we're
at with it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Was there many unexpected genres or records or artists that
now that your record is done, you can look back
and say, oh wow, this kind of influenced this, and
this kind of influenced that. As far as your pursuit
and uncovering these buried kind of treasures in music.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, I mean a lot of Latin music has come
into our fold over the last five years, a lot
of a lot of a lot of Cumbia and you know,
all kinds of stuff. It's it's really branched our our
world out a lot. And also just the pursuit of
finding these kind of buried treasures. It's like you also
(19:32):
just have to you're just to find like one great
song like this, you might have to listen to two hundred,
so you just end up gett you know, having this
thing where like I know a lot of people my
age who just listen to the same stuff they did
when they were eighteen. And we're here, we are, like,
you know, probably exposing ourselves to like five thousand or
(19:53):
more new songs every six months or something, which is cool.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, man, So as you music geek, I I
asked the one question, the obvious one, what's the gem?
What's the one that you found that like it's just
that burry treasure that gets a room moving, and like
you never would have heard of this song, but it's
like the favorite one to play.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Well, I think if we go way back to early tour,
this is like two thousand and four or five. We
made a stop at shangrilat Records in Memphis, and Dan
bought a bootleg CDR that some guys that weren't there
made of just some really obscure Memphis stuff that we
had never heard obviously, And one of the songs on
(20:37):
there was a song yeah by a group called black Rock,
and uh, yeah, I remember We've gotten a tour van
and we're driving and like Dan popped that in and
it was like what is this? And so that was
like the key that was like the thing that really.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, that mix that mixed CD was called Chains and
Black Exhaust. You can still find it on like YouTube,
but yeah, that, yeah, that messed us up for a minute.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
That was the gateway drug.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Funny. I'm typing in black Rock now onto my phone
because I want to find it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I'm sure it's interesting looking back on all those records,
like having such a distinctive sound, which you do, and
then hearing others who have found that in their own
way as well, And it's interesting to hear those artists
talk about how they are kind of in service of
something larger than themselves and that's a big part of
(21:40):
their journey and really honing the sound and something that
Steve and I love to talk about is how music
is a form of service. And I was curious if
that resonates with you and what it means to be
in service of the music to you.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I think, you know, I think I don't really not answer,
but I will say, like as far as artists and
sounds and these things that like have always fascinated Dan
and I like this is the thing that we've bonded
over a long time ago. Was like, you know, the
mystique of like how does everything that comes out of
(22:16):
royal studios just sound so so good? And why do
all these records done it like easily recorded in Memphis,
like indie rock stuff. It's just there's these there's this
you know, there's this curation of sound that certain studios
or labels have and I think, you know, Dan's label
Easy Eye is a great example of like that at
his aesthetic and like what his pursuit and service to
(22:38):
music is. And and I think that we look to
other people that have done something similar, and that's that's
what we like kind of put an eye to. Is like, okay,
this everything from fame, you know in muscle shoals, like
what like these players, the aesthetic, the whole thing, Like
it's a it's very hard to accomplish, but when it had,
(22:58):
when it has been done in the past, it's those
things that's always been really influential to us. And you
could even say, like even Rizza and like the way
that he you know, you know, pulled the thread through
all the Wu Tang stuff and the solo stuff, especially
those first like six years, like that is that's like
to us, like the coolest, the coolest stuff.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
As you gear up for this massive tour, what's been
the process in like looking back at your whole catalog
now that you have all of these different worlds to
choose from.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think Dan and I are not
to take of the band that sits around and likes
to rehearse. We like to sit around and create new stuff.
So when it comes to this new tour, we're going
to get in a room and we will rehearse for
a week. And we have like made some lists of
songs we want to learn and spons of ours we
want to play. And I think it is important to
(23:58):
us on this tour to you know, to just kind
of get in there and mix it up a bunch.
So that's the plan. Have fun. That's the that's the
real key is like, if you're having fun on the
road and you're enjoying what you're doing on stage, I
think it translates pretty heavily to the to the fans.
And I think part of that is picking the right venues,
you know, making sure that it's an enjoyable experience. You know,
(24:21):
if you're gonna go out of your way to leave
your house and go see a band, it's like, you know,
let's make it like somethinglet's do something memorable.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, but it's funny because it also comes picking the
right openers. And you know, I remember now you're you're
doing you have like a few different openers. Sadly, Gary
is not opening in La Gary is a good friend
of both of ours I've done. You know, I'm one
of the only people to talk to at this point.
Fucking love that dude. How much fun is it for
you guys? Just like go up there every night and
play with someone who's that good, because it's like there's always,
(24:53):
as I've talked about with bands, it's always a fun,
healthy competition of like when you go up there and
someone kicks ass, then you go up there and you're
going to do so as well.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, I've never looked at a concert like a competition.
I mean we we we had to show up opening
for Beck and it was just Dan and I down
with a ten inch guitar speaker and me with like
an eighteen inch kick drump and played red Rocks and
you know back at you know, like the heaviest hitter
musicians you can imagine Josh kling Offer, Jay Belaruss, Greg
Kursten and his band. And so it was like, are
(25:27):
we trying to compete with Beck? No, We're trying, not.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Like a competition about Like I said, it's like a
healthy like just when you know, it motivates you and like,
all right, dude, that was awesome. Now I'm fired up
to play.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, well yeah, well that's a good music is inspiring
and so that's cool to get to play with great musicians.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Absolutely, No, yeah, it is inspiring to be on the
road to see somebody somebody kill it or or or
like you know, do something that you that you can
you know, feed off of kind of in the same
way that you do in the studio a little bit
maybe in a different way, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Uh. It was we took a guy named Jay Retard
on tour for US opening and he one time Pete
on the audience and there's like nothing more punk rock
than that, and so it's like, not, that's hard, competition,
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
So what do you do? Do you like you call
the audience then, or how do you follow it up?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I mean, he ended up getting knocked out down the
stairs by a security guard that night, so he just
went down in the books as a legend instantly. So
how do you follow that up? This guy just solidified
his spot in the you know, history books.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
A great story. Hey, by the way, all right, since
you brought up that story, I'm gonna ask you a
fun question. I did a story. I'm doing a story
for the Only Times on the Doors, and I interviewed
a pale and tall digist who told me a great
story about actually listening to the Doors writers of the
story in Patagonia while excavating dinosaur bones, and they would
(27:04):
listen to that song every day whilst ragging dinosaur bones
with horses. And I'm obsessed with that story. And now
I'm curious, what is the craziest, coolest place you've heard
of your music?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Uh? You know, I think I don't know if it's
the coolest, But the craziest is after the bin Laden raid,
we were told like a couple of weeks later that
the that they were listening to Holland for you on
the helicopter on the Blackhawks, And.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's pretty fucking crazy. That's the only one I heard
so far.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That I ended up meeting like one of the captains
because they're based out of Fort Campbell and he verified that,
So that's kind of insane.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, we got.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Very cool. And for you guys, what's the craziest place
you've ever listened to music? Because everybody has the stories
of like, you know, being in the middle of nowhere
and you have your headphones or whatever the hell it is.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, we were always listening to stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I remember walking up on on Pat one time. He
was sat at the edge of the gorge listened to Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Close to the edge.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know, it's funny. Taylor Hawkins was a good friend.
I love that dude. He would always strength convince me
about yes, I just can't get with the prog rock up. Sorry,
never could Taylor to to you know, to the end
fop for that band and you.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Can go to the gorge. Yeah, it's a it's an
interesting thing. I think Fragile's great record, but it's not
something I would Yeah, it's like I have a hard
time with like Steely Dan and a lot of both
proficient musicianship on that level. It just doesn't interest me.
(28:59):
It's right, so like always since since and that's where
Dan and our our sthetic kind of always kind of
you know, from the very get go. It's like Dan
was listening to like Siddel Davis and Junior Kimbro and
I was into like, you know, sloppy indie rock like
you know, John Spencer, Blues Explosion or things like that.
And I think it's always been like there's this you know,
(29:22):
there's a way like if you can hear someone play
an instrument and you just know it's them and it's
something rough and simplistic but creative. That's that's the thing
that I'm into. So I'm never really blown away by Chops.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, though. I fucking love
Steely Dan.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
So we disagree on that one, but we'll disagree forever
on that one. But I.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
But Taylor was a big Steely Dan fan as well,
because I remember running him to him at a bull show,
so you know, least we agreed on that one. But yes, Yes,
it's just funny because he used to talk to me
about yes all the time and I was like, dude,
roundabout to me, it is like the worst song ever written.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I love the way the bass sounds on it though, too.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah, I'm very curious, you know, because I'm very in
love with you know, hyper musicianship, but also like you
the amazing simplicity that you guys. Hone isn't usually a
gut instinct thing as far as finding those musical hooks
and finding the things that feel right musically to support
the song, or is there quite a bit of digging
(30:37):
that goes into uncovering those moments?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I mean, I think we both like catchy songs, you
know what I mean like that we like hooks. You know.
It's just and actually that goes to speak why I
don't listen to much Yes or Steely Dan. I don't
hear hooks there, you know. I mean I hear hooks
in Louie Louie, you know what I mean. Like to me, like,
write a better hook than like ninety six tiers. That's
a hook, that's the that's the kind of thing that
(31:02):
we've always been into, you know, so I think that's
where our our taste levels at. You know, it's not
like my favorite part of Louis Louis is like when
the singer comes in early after the solo. It's you know,
he screws it up and it's like in there like
that's that's right, that's rock and roll to me.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
I'd love to finish it off with. As you approach
this global tour, I mean, the universality of music is
perhaps one of the most gorgeous elements of that. But
I'm sure it's really interesting to see how it reverberates
with different cultures differently. Is there a country or a
(31:44):
place that you're excited to either go back to or
go to for the first time that you know that
you find it really interesting how the music resonates differently.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, we're turing, we have we're touring Europe this summer,
and you know, it's always those are always kind of uh,
those tours are kind of a grind, usually the festival
thing in Europe in the summer, but it ends up
being worth it because you know, the crowds in France
and Spain and you know, in England. I mean the
(32:16):
European crowds, they kind of just seem to get They
get into it more than I've ever seen it, like
an American festival, you know. So we had an opportunity
to go to Turkey and that was gonna be cool,
but it just it would have stretched the tour to
the limit where our kids wouldn't recognize us.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
All right, So we're gonna let you guys go in
one second. But I have to ask, because anybody ever
written a better hook than ninety six years?
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Man? I think there's tons of great.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Hooks, but we haven't found it.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yett. Yeah, well, no, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
And that's funny because I say, to this day, like
the best rock and roll song of all time. I
don't know if anybody's ever I don't know if it's
Johnny be Good, but I do know no one's written
a better song than Johnny be Good.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
M I mean that early, that chuck Berry stuff from
the late fifties is so so awesome you.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Can't top it. It's like, you can write something as good,
but how are you going to write anything better than
Johnny be Good?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Amazing? So I will say satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's because for me, for the stones, I gotta go
give me shelter.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, but as a hook that let the riff, the simplicity,
satisfaction's pretty pretty, pretty fucking awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Nice, Well, this is great. Do you get anything you
guys want to add that I did not ask you
about or we did not ask you about.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
No, man, just thanks for taking the time to talk
to us. You know, Dan and I it's like these
album cycles now lately, like the it's hard to tell
when one starts to win one stops. And I think
that that's, uh, that's a good thing. I think, you know,
we're we're just trying to stay busy and while we're
feeling it, make as much music as we can. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, I agree with you too. It's funny because you
were talking about the best times of you know, we
talked last year as well, and you know, I agree.
I think you guys are making the best music and
you know, you can tell you're having fun with it,
and that's always so important.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I think, you know, yeah, we will. We're on the
same clip that we were at the beginning of our
career lately, like we did six records in eight years
and we're basically on that same clip since twenty nineteen,
and and it's exciting to be deep in a career
and still so feeling the poll to make stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Cool. All Right, we'll let you guys go how funny
you're thinking tonight in Nashville. And I'm excited to go
fucking listen to black rock now because I called that
up on my phone. All right, cool, I've never heard
that song before, so I'm psyched.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
As it turns out, we found out that that song
was the High Records studio band on Acid Record and
that was verified.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Too.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Very cool. Thanks you guys so much, thank you, thank you.
Thanks
Hi, it's Steve Balton. Welcome to in Service Hub, where
this week Saves Bob and I sit down with Dan
Wilson and Patrick Carney with Black Eyes. This was a
really fun interview on so many subjects. I couldn't even
begin where to start. We covered a wide range from
their record hangs to touring to a crazy story about
(00:29):
their music being played on the Raid of in Laden.
I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as we did.
Thanks well, congratulations on the new record. It's funny and
(00:52):
this is my podcast host stage and we were just
discussing the fact, you know, it's a wonderful record, but
both of us really gravitated to the last song. It's
so different.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh cool, Thank you. We wrote that one with our
buddy Daniel Tashin, who lives in town and one of
the first people that Pat met here in town. But
that one happened so quickly we almost overlooked it.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You know, isn't that the best ones always happened? Jimmy
Cliff told me, he wrote, you know harder they come
in ten minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, we've got our buddy Leon Michaels and Tommy Brenneck
playing on those on that track and we cut it
live and it was one take.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Nice. Well, it's interesting, did you work with a lot
of different people on this record again, because when we
talked last year, you brought in a lot of new,
you know energy.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, we continued that to a certain degree. I don't
think we overdid it, you know, I think each song
relied on them, maybe a couple of key people. But
you know, we we find it really fun to do
the collaborating.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We do we like you said, there's an energy there
and we really feed off of that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Well. Yeah, and again you guys have you know, both
produced and you know, worked with other people. Say you're
used to it, you understand the spirit of collaboration.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Absolutely, it's more fun for us.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
We really like it. You know.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It's interesting too because you know, I was thinking about
it and it's like, I know you switched. I can't
it's early in the morning here, but I know you
switched management too. And it's funny because any type of
change I have found from talking to bands can bring
in a new vitality and new energy because you're still
now bouncing ideas off new people. Do you feel like
(02:49):
that also? Kind of infused the record with a little
bit of a new energy. You know.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I don't think, yeah, management really comes into play too
much when it has to, you know, comes the creative decisions.
But I think you know, in this instance, you know,
what really was effective on this record was that we
I think that we were really proud of the work
we had just done on Ohio Players. And then we're
kind of aware of like, even though you know, we
(03:17):
felt this is one of our strongest albums, like what
can happen if things aren't all completely lined up appropriately,
you know, and like we can only do so much
on our side, you know, the writing and recording, the
performing live, like the overseeing artwork. I mean, it's like
a it's a picking the band, reorhearsing the band. It's
(03:38):
a and on top of that, you know, there's other
pursuits that we have. We have families, stand as a
family at a label, and you know, so when it
comes to like the rollout of a record, to see
something just kind of like maybe just fall flat for
various reasons. And I think it's just like it adds
a little bit of fire to us to just want
to like I guess just make more music, you know,
(04:00):
And in this instance, for no rinnow Flowers, I think,
you know, it kind of started with the idea that
the last album we'd worked with some kind of heroes
of ours, like Noel Gallagher and back and and you know,
we did a lot of material with those guys, and
I think for this one, I think we we we
(04:21):
wanted to do something similar, but we went right to
the source of these. We were trying to look for
some songwriters that are just kind of you know, stuck
around and been putting out good work for a long time.
And the guy that came to mind first from Dan
suggested we check out Rick Knowles, who when Dan produced
the Lona del Rey record Ultra Violence, you know, he
(04:41):
had noticed that Rick was involved in quite a few
of Lana's tracks, and we reached out to Rick, and
like a week later, he happened to be coming to
Nashville for the first time in his like fifty year career.
He had never been here before, and we happened to
be like, well, do you want to work and he said,
of course, he came to the studio and within two
days we had written four songs and it became like
(05:05):
a really fruitful collaborative component of the album. And you know,
one of the first songs we wrote was the title track,
No Raindow Flowers, and it was great to get in
a room with like this heavy hitter songwriter who was
just there. And the way that song started, like you know,
it was was Rick asked Dan, like, do you have
any song titles? I like to start with the song title,
(05:26):
and Dan throughout the title No Raindow Flowers, and then
from there Rick's like, well, how would you sing that?
And so like in the space of nothing and just
the title, Dan now has the title and the melody happening,
and Rick then just helps us compose it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It was like with chords that we never would have
come up with on our own in a million years.
But it was also very easy and quit and very quick.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Writing with a guy that plays piano like that was
our first time with so the voicings that he was
throwing behind the melody were just something that honestly wouldn't
not be considered by, you know, a guitar player necessarily,
you know, they were they were very kind of different,
which was great, and so like we we we we
(06:12):
didn't really necessarily use some of those parts, but but
it influenced the harmony throughout the whole track.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Very cool. Well, since stage plays both, dude, I really
am liked just this morning and like Brainded stage plays
both guitar and piano. I'm gonna let her take over
for a bit, all right.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Well, I was curious the joy that you talk about
with collaboration feels so infused in the music, and you know,
within your own dynamic of collaboration, you know, having been
doing this for the past, you know, so many years,
how did that evolve for this new record and was
(06:55):
there anything different that was really interesting to you about
this process first ones in the past.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, yeah, like we said that that was the first
time we'd ever written with anyone on piano. And then
so we thought, who's another piano player we love and
we were like, Scott Storage. We've been fans of him forever.
We've obsessed over videos of Scott in the studio just
playing the keyboard like a mad scientist for years, you know.
(07:27):
So we reached out to him, We talked him into
coming to Nashville, and it was incredible and that was
something you know, we hadn't done that before, and so
you know, I think every decision we made for this record,
none of it like really made a whole lot of
sense necessarily, but it ended up feeling really good.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, like working with Scott, you know, he's you know,
he's like a legendary for some of his hip hop
productions obviously, but there was something in his playing that
was always you know, spoke to Dan and I and
when we finally got him in the studio and we
put him in front of you know, actual.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know, a harpsichord and and all these synthesizers and
actual key acoustic keyboards, he really flipped out. Yeah, we
hadn't said, he really hadn't recorded like this before, which
kind of blew our minds.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And but it became clear this guy's like a really
heavy hitting like musician, like in a way that you know,
he's topped here his feel the way he plays, and
I think, you know, heavily misunderstood. So I think it
was great to kind of like contextualize his playing into
into what we were working on. And then from there,
(08:44):
you know, Scott doesn't really write like it does write lyrics,
and so we were it gave us a cool thing
where we were able to bring in like an additional
collaborator on those tracks, Like we brought in Daniel Toshan
for Baby Girl, and a couple of tracks we brought
in Desmond Child and that was like, you know, the
most odd couple pairing Desmond Child.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
The most eccentric duo is Scotch and Desmond Child at
us in one studio with the studio was about to explode.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
But to answer your question back, how they collaborative collaboration
has changed over the like twenty five years we've been
working together. I mean, I think it's always just slowly
been evolving from us not really us knowing what we
kind of wanted to do or wish we could do,
to like getting slowly better at it. And there's there's
a lot of growing parts of that. Like in the
(09:35):
early days, I think we were pretty insular for various reasons.
I think the main one for artists to be like
that is like they aren't really secure enough with what
they're doing, so it has to be done in like
a kind of isolated spot, Like it has to you
have to give yourself a like enough space to be
able to understand your chops, to learn where your deficiencies are,
(09:58):
and then and then it's really easy to bring someone
in to kind of learn from them, you know, so
it took us years to be able to really get
in a room with someone like and we got Danger Mouse.
I was our first collaborator, get him around and like,
you know, learn from him. And from there it was
just we were kind of off to the races. You know.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
So interesting how new energies can elicit new inspiration. What's
one of the most surprising or memorable parts about working
with that core group? And and how did you know,
how did you find the voicings of the piano and
and that different instrumentation like perhaps influence new lyricism, new
(10:39):
ideas of like messaging, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
You know the thing about the working with Rick is
he yeah, he's a producer as well, so like the
way that he was approaching stuff. It was cool because
they were they were definitely you know, problems that we
were trying to you know, or like, you know, trying
to figure out how to compose this song, put it together,
and you know, he would hear it one way, we'd
hear the other thing, and we'd try it both ways.
(11:05):
And it was a good process to just kind of
see it through and it was always kind of like
some of his stuff was right and some of our
stuff was right, and it was like you just became clear,
like what you get out of a collaboration is if
you're open to it, you get you know, more than
some of the pieces involved. And so that that's the
(11:26):
magic there.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You know, it's interesting. I was going to say, you know,
how gratifying is it at this point that you can
you know, it's kind of like putting together your own
you know, I'm a big basketball fan. It's kind of
like putting together your own all star team. So when
you're sitting in the studio with Scott and Desmond, who
have both done so much, how gratifying is it to
(11:47):
you know, be able to work with these people. And
you know it's funny too because you know, like all
basketball teams, you know, you can put the best players
together and the chemistry may suck. So at what point
did you really like this pairing? Are these pairings you
were doing for this were really coming together?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean instantly with Rick, I think we knew it
was very strong because it just started on such a
high and you know, you know, being in this studio
with Scott and Desmond and like, we mentioned that we
need some strings for this song because it kind of
has a Philly Soul type of feel to it or
something like that, and He's like gets us on FaceTime
(12:28):
with Larry Gold who did all the strings for the
Philly Soul records. It was like incredible, you know, It's
like multiple generations and music makers in the room facetiming.
It was incredible, you know, and the whole experiences with
the collaboration, it kind of just what you end up
(12:52):
hearing is us reacting to the person in the room,
you know.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I think as far as that, yeah, when you
get when you're assembling these guys, like a guy like Scott,
you know, we didn't we didn't know. So we invited
him to Nashville and we spent five days with him
just trying to feel him out and get to understand
where his real strengths were. And and so by the
time he came back, we we knew kind of like
(13:24):
this paramount with Desmond, this paramount with Daniel, and it's
jump off on this stuff. But I think that the
cool thing that Dan and I realized is that, yeah,
it's like if the core of the song is Dan
and I. Then people could come in and and we
can work with them and it and it ends up
still feeling like the Black Keys, you know, because we'll
(13:45):
you know, we're only playing the stuff that we want
to play and stuff we like, because we're editing the
whole thing and pushing ideas through. So it's like getting
to filter your idea through, you know, someone else's brain
and then getting someone else's to you know, to sit
there and show you like how they would approach it.
And it's a you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Such a thrill honestly, and it makes it so exciting
and just the just knowing that every day when you
walk into that studio, anything is possible. And I mean,
you know, when I know that I'm about to walk
into the studio with somebody like Scott, I'm just like excited,
like it's Christmas.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I feel like that that just happens a lot for us.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I also think what we do, we're very.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Blessed in that way.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I think there's an interesting thing though, to a lot
of times bands, like throughout history, they would go work
with a new producer in a new studio, and all
of a sudden, the band would have like has a
whole new sound, Like every sonic element is now different,
whether it's like Nirvana Nevermind to in Utero or something
like that, and sometimes just really fascinate and works, and
sometimes it doesn't work. And I think what's fascinat about
(14:56):
Dan is that we we've recorded our stuff ourselves the
entire time, So there's there's this aesthetic change that sort
of happened over time as we've gotten different abilities or taste,
but it's all rooted in this kind of sonic template.
So as we bring in influences to songwriting and stuff,
it is, it's it's always gonna kind of sound like that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That's interesting though, And that's one more and then let's
say shake over again. But it's funny because you say
then stuff that you like because you're you know, editing
it and you're playing it. But what is interesting, it's like,
you know, I talk about this with artists all the time.
When you hear someone cover your music, you get to
hear their interpretation and it might change something for you
a little bit or give you a new idea. And
(15:46):
so having these new people and do you find that
it also changes a little bit what you like? Or
opens you up to new things that maybe you didn't
realize you like, but when you hear you know, other
great players come into it, you're like, oh shit, that
really works for us.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, I think so, I mean, like I think over
and over again, that's the whole point.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, So were the songs on this record than that
you were really surprised by how they came out, and like,
you know, it's funny because the way we both mentioned Moon,
I also love Baby Girl, I also loves I listened
to everything all the way through. But there's the one
about on repeats.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, absolutely, like song like
No Rain, having that having that synth, that pumping synth
bass on there, that's not really something we've had before.
And Rick played that live, which is which was really cool.
(16:44):
And having the driving piano on Baby Girl. We've never
had a song driven by piano ever, you know. So, yeah,
it's fun to it's fun to like open ourselves up
to this stuff. I mean, I think we have definitely
been heavily influenced also by spinning records, collecting forty fives
(17:07):
and DJing, playing records out and how crowds react to
different records. You know what I mean, I think it
definitely opens our minds to sonic possibilities.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That's been a huge thing is the doing our record
hanging is spinning our forty fives is like realizing, like
what what works? You know, when you're playing music that
probably ninety percent of people in the room don't know
at all, to see how something is going to resonate,
you know, because you know music like this is why
(17:36):
like payola as illegals, Like the more exposure you have
to something, the more you're gonna like it. And like
that's why, like it actually would make sense to pay
a radio station to play your song because it's going
to become a hit, you know what I mean. It's true.
So like if you're playing something to somebody that they
don't know, then you're you're like at a disadvantage. It's
like it's got to have all these components, and what
ends up work happening is the records that work in
(17:58):
that context are records that have like an economy of
space where it's like it just hits in. There's this
great intro, there's a verse, there's like maybe a solo section,
there's there's these things. No matter it's a real formula.
But what it is is that it never drags, and
when it does drag, the whole room drags down and
you and you see it. And so that was it's
(18:18):
like a nightmare when that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, and you're spinning records.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But you can't make every song like that like that.
That doesn't apply to Neon Moon, Like you know, Neo
Moon is not one of those songs. That's just that's
like a you know, go for a nighttime drive type
of song or something. But baby Girl for sure in
our Rain of Flowers, you know. So it's just it's
kind of it's exciting to be doing something for over
twenty years and feeling like, you know, at least personally,
(18:44):
we feel like we're doing our greatest shit. And I
think that's that's all that matters, and that's where we're
at with it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Was there many unexpected genres or records or artists that
now that your record is done, you can look back
and say, oh wow, this kind of influenced this, and
this kind of influenced that. As far as your pursuit
and uncovering these buried kind of treasures in music.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, I mean a lot of Latin music has come
into our fold over the last five years, a lot
of a lot of a lot of Cumbia and you know,
all kinds of stuff. It's it's really branched our our
world out a lot. And also just the pursuit of
finding these kind of buried treasures. It's like you also
(19:32):
just have to you're just to find like one great
song like this, you might have to listen to two hundred,
so you just end up gett you know, having this
thing where like I know a lot of people my
age who just listen to the same stuff they did
when they were eighteen. And we're here, we are, like,
you know, probably exposing ourselves to like five thousand or
(19:53):
more new songs every six months or something, which is cool.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, man, So as you music geek, I I
asked the one question, the obvious one, what's the gem?
What's the one that you found that like it's just
that burry treasure that gets a room moving, and like
you never would have heard of this song, but it's
like the favorite one to play.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Well, I think if we go way back to early tour,
this is like two thousand and four or five. We
made a stop at shangrilat Records in Memphis, and Dan
bought a bootleg CDR that some guys that weren't there
made of just some really obscure Memphis stuff that we
had never heard obviously, And one of the songs on
(20:37):
there was a song yeah by a group called black Rock,
and uh, yeah, I remember We've gotten a tour van
and we're driving and like Dan popped that in and
it was like what is this? And so that was
like the key that was like the thing that really.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, that mix that mixed CD was called Chains and
Black Exhaust. You can still find it on like YouTube,
but yeah, that, yeah, that messed us up for a minute.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
That was the gateway drug.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Funny. I'm typing in black Rock now onto my phone
because I want to find it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
I'm sure it's interesting looking back on all those records,
like having such a distinctive sound, which you do, and
then hearing others who have found that in their own
way as well, And it's interesting to hear those artists
talk about how they are kind of in service of
something larger than themselves and that's a big part of
(21:40):
their journey and really honing the sound and something that
Steve and I love to talk about is how music
is a form of service. And I was curious if
that resonates with you and what it means to be
in service of the music to you.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I think, you know, I think I don't really not answer,
but I will say, like as far as artists and
sounds and these things that like have always fascinated Dan
and I like this is the thing that we've bonded
over a long time ago. Was like, you know, the
mystique of like how does everything that comes out of
(22:16):
royal studios just sound so so good? And why do
all these records done it like easily recorded in Memphis,
like indie rock stuff. It's just there's these there's this
you know, there's this curation of sound that certain studios
or labels have and I think, you know, Dan's label
Easy Eye is a great example of like that at
his aesthetic and like what his pursuit and service to
(22:38):
music is. And and I think that we look to
other people that have done something similar, and that's that's
what we like kind of put an eye to. Is like, okay,
this everything from fame, you know in muscle shoals, like
what like these players, the aesthetic, the whole thing, Like
it's a it's very hard to accomplish, but when it had,
(22:58):
when it has been done in the past, it's those
things that's always been really influential to us. And you
could even say, like even Rizza and like the way
that he you know, you know, pulled the thread through
all the Wu Tang stuff and the solo stuff, especially
those first like six years, like that is that's like
to us, like the coolest, the coolest stuff.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
As you gear up for this massive tour, what's been
the process in like looking back at your whole catalog
now that you have all of these different worlds to
choose from.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah, I mean, I think Dan and I are not
to take of the band that sits around and likes
to rehearse. We like to sit around and create new stuff.
So when it comes to this new tour, we're going
to get in a room and we will rehearse for
a week. And we have like made some lists of
songs we want to learn and spons of ours we
want to play. And I think it is important to
(23:58):
us on this tour to you know, to just kind
of get in there and mix it up a bunch.
So that's the plan. Have fun. That's the that's the
real key is like, if you're having fun on the
road and you're enjoying what you're doing on stage, I
think it translates pretty heavily to the to the fans.
And I think part of that is picking the right venues,
you know, making sure that it's an enjoyable experience. You know,
(24:21):
if you're gonna go out of your way to leave
your house and go see a band, it's like, you know,
let's make it like somethinglet's do something memorable.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, but it's funny because it also comes picking the
right openers. And you know, I remember now you're you're
doing you have like a few different openers. Sadly, Gary
is not opening in La Gary is a good friend
of both of ours I've done. You know, I'm one
of the only people to talk to at this point.
Fucking love that dude. How much fun is it for
you guys? Just like go up there every night and
play with someone who's that good, because it's like there's always,
(24:53):
as I've talked about with bands, it's always a fun,
healthy competition of like when you go up there and
someone kicks ass, then you go up there and you're
going to do so as well.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, I've never looked at a concert like a competition.
I mean we we we had to show up opening
for Beck and it was just Dan and I down
with a ten inch guitar speaker and me with like
an eighteen inch kick drump and played red Rocks and
you know back at you know, like the heaviest hitter
musicians you can imagine Josh kling Offer, Jay Belaruss, Greg
Kursten and his band. And so it was like, are
(25:27):
we trying to compete with Beck? No, We're trying, not.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Like a competition about Like I said, it's like a
healthy like just when you know, it motivates you and like,
all right, dude, that was awesome. Now I'm fired up
to play.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, well yeah, well that's a good music is inspiring
and so that's cool to get to play with great musicians.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Absolutely, No, yeah, it is inspiring to be on the
road to see somebody somebody kill it or or or
like you know, do something that you that you can
you know, feed off of kind of in the same
way that you do in the studio a little bit
maybe in a different way, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Uh. It was we took a guy named Jay Retard
on tour for US opening and he one time Pete
on the audience and there's like nothing more punk rock
than that, and so it's like, not, that's hard, competition,
that's hard.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
So what do you do? Do you like you call
the audience then, or how do you follow it up?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I mean, he ended up getting knocked out down the
stairs by a security guard that night, so he just
went down in the books as a legend instantly. So
how do you follow that up? This guy just solidified
his spot in the you know, history books.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
A great story. Hey, by the way, all right, since
you brought up that story, I'm gonna ask you a
fun question. I did a story. I'm doing a story
for the Only Times on the Doors, and I interviewed
a pale and tall digist who told me a great
story about actually listening to the Doors writers of the
story in Patagonia while excavating dinosaur bones, and they would
(27:04):
listen to that song every day whilst ragging dinosaur bones
with horses. And I'm obsessed with that story. And now
I'm curious, what is the craziest, coolest place you've heard
of your music?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Uh? You know, I think I don't know if it's
the coolest, But the craziest is after the bin Laden raid,
we were told like a couple of weeks later that
the that they were listening to Holland for you on
the helicopter on the Blackhawks, And.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's pretty fucking crazy. That's the only one I heard
so far.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
That I ended up meeting like one of the captains
because they're based out of Fort Campbell and he verified that,
So that's kind of insane.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, we got.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Very cool. And for you guys, what's the craziest place
you've ever listened to music? Because everybody has the stories
of like, you know, being in the middle of nowhere
and you have your headphones or whatever the hell it is.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, we were always listening to stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I remember walking up on on Pat one time. He
was sat at the edge of the gorge listened to Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Close to the edge.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Man.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You know, it's funny. Taylor Hawkins was a good friend.
I love that dude. He would always strength convince me
about yes, I just can't get with the prog rock up. Sorry,
never could Taylor to to you know, to the end
fop for that band and you.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Can go to the gorge. Yeah, it's a it's an
interesting thing. I think Fragile's great record, but it's not
something I would Yeah, it's like I have a hard
time with like Steely Dan and a lot of both
proficient musicianship on that level. It just doesn't interest me.
(28:59):
It's right, so like always since since and that's where
Dan and our our sthetic kind of always kind of
you know, from the very get go. It's like Dan
was listening to like Siddel Davis and Junior Kimbro and
I was into like, you know, sloppy indie rock like
you know, John Spencer, Blues Explosion or things like that.
And I think it's always been like there's this you know,
(29:22):
there's a way like if you can hear someone play
an instrument and you just know it's them and it's
something rough and simplistic but creative. That's that's the thing
that I'm into. So I'm never really blown away by Chops.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, though. I fucking love
Steely Dan.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
So we disagree on that one, but we'll disagree forever
on that one. But I.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
But Taylor was a big Steely Dan fan as well,
because I remember running him to him at a bull show,
so you know, least we agreed on that one. But yes, Yes,
it's just funny because he used to talk to me
about yes all the time and I was like, dude,
roundabout to me, it is like the worst song ever written.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I love the way the bass sounds on it though, too.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah, I'm very curious, you know, because I'm very in
love with you know, hyper musicianship, but also like you
the amazing simplicity that you guys. Hone isn't usually a
gut instinct thing as far as finding those musical hooks
and finding the things that feel right musically to support
the song, or is there quite a bit of digging
(30:37):
that goes into uncovering those moments?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I mean, I think we both like catchy songs, you
know what I mean like that we like hooks. You know.
It's just and actually that goes to speak why I
don't listen to much Yes or Steely Dan. I don't
hear hooks there, you know. I mean I hear hooks
in Louie Louie, you know what I mean. Like to me, like,
write a better hook than like ninety six tiers. That's
a hook, that's the that's the kind of thing that
(31:02):
we've always been into, you know, so I think that's
where our our taste levels at. You know, it's not
like my favorite part of Louis Louis is like when
the singer comes in early after the solo. It's you know,
he screws it up and it's like in there like
that's that's right, that's rock and roll to me.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
I'd love to finish it off with. As you approach
this global tour, I mean, the universality of music is
perhaps one of the most gorgeous elements of that. But
I'm sure it's really interesting to see how it reverberates
with different cultures differently. Is there a country or a
(31:44):
place that you're excited to either go back to or
go to for the first time that you know that
you find it really interesting how the music resonates differently.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, we're turing, we have we're touring Europe this summer,
and you know, it's always those are always kind of uh,
those tours are kind of a grind, usually the festival
thing in Europe in the summer, but it ends up
being worth it because you know, the crowds in France
and Spain and you know, in England. I mean the
(32:16):
European crowds, they kind of just seem to get They
get into it more than I've ever seen it, like
an American festival, you know. So we had an opportunity
to go to Turkey and that was gonna be cool,
but it just it would have stretched the tour to
the limit where our kids wouldn't recognize us.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
All right, So we're gonna let you guys go in
one second. But I have to ask, because anybody ever
written a better hook than ninety six years?
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Man? I think there's tons of great.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Hooks, but we haven't found it.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yett. Yeah, well, no, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
And that's funny because I say, to this day, like
the best rock and roll song of all time. I
don't know if anybody's ever I don't know if it's
Johnny be Good, but I do know no one's written
a better song than Johnny be Good.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
M I mean that early, that chuck Berry stuff from
the late fifties is so so awesome you.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Can't top it. It's like, you can write something as good,
but how are you going to write anything better than
Johnny be Good?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Amazing? So I will say satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's because for me, for the stones, I gotta go
give me shelter.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, but as a hook that let the riff, the simplicity,
satisfaction's pretty pretty, pretty fucking awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Nice, Well, this is great. Do you get anything you
guys want to add that I did not ask you
about or we did not ask you about.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
No, man, just thanks for taking the time to talk
to us. You know, Dan and I it's like these
album cycles now lately, like the it's hard to tell
when one starts to win one stops. And I think
that that's, uh, that's a good thing. I think, you know,
we're we're just trying to stay busy and while we're
feeling it, make as much music as we can. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
No, I agree with you too. It's funny because you
were talking about the best times of you know, we
talked last year as well, and you know, I agree.
I think you guys are making the best music and
you know, you can tell you're having fun with it,
and that's always so important.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
I think, you know, yeah, we will. We're on the
same clip that we were at the beginning of our
career lately, like we did six records in eight years
and we're basically on that same clip since twenty nineteen,
and and it's exciting to be deep in a career
and still so feeling the poll to make stuff.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Cool. All Right, we'll let you guys go how funny
you're thinking tonight in Nashville. And I'm excited to go
fucking listen to black rock now because I called that
up on my phone. All right, cool, I've never heard
that song before, so I'm psyched.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
As it turns out, we found out that that song
was the High Records studio band on Acid Record and
that was verified.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Too.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Very cool. Thanks you guys so much, thank you, thank you.
Thanks
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