October 19, 2023 • 35 mins
Naughty but Nice Rob Shuter is a celebrity gossip columnist who knew from a young age he was different. Hear him dish all about his life growing up in a small English town, what drew him to the spotlight and crafting breakup announcements for some of Hollywoods biggest couples like Bennifer and Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back. It's another episode of Thinking out Loud.
I'm Elvis Durant. We've got a very very special guest today,
our really dear friend, Rob Shooter. It's kind of funny
how you think you know someone, but there are so
many things about them you don't know. Let's find out
more about Rob today. You may know him as naughty
but Nice Rob. He's a world renowned gossip columnist. I
guess he likes that title. We'll find out. But how
(00:21):
does one get into a world of gossip? How did
he do it? Where did he start? And is there
such a thing as good gossip? We'll find out in
this podcast with Rob Shooter. Let's get to know it.
One of my favorite things about doing this podcast is
I'm actually sitting down with people I know or I
thought I knew. Rob Shooter is here. We've known each
(00:45):
other for how many years?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Gosh, it must be a decade, Elvis, like at least
at least like ten, fifteen, fifteen. Yeahs, It's amazing. Though
you do know people for a long time, but.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Do you really know them? Well? That's the thing that's
what I love about this podcast. I can sit down
with people that I know and ask questions about things
we've never talked about.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I think that friendships and relationships have so many
different colors to them. And what we would talk about
on a night in a bar, if we bump into
each other at a fabulous party, isn't always what you
want to talk about in the day or earlier on
in the evening. And so we can explore different aspects
of stuff that just don't come up in regular sort
(01:26):
of life.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Then let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Jump in.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, So Rob Shooter, legendary gossip columnist, does Z one
of many.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
People don't like the word gossip. So I think in
our business the word gossip is sort of like being
maybe below a reality star, like it's something that people
really cringe about. I love that word. I love gossip.
I've always liked gossip. I've always been nosy. When I
was a little boy at school, I knew everyone's gossip
in the playground. It saved me from being beat up.
(01:54):
I like gossip, I like being curious. I love being nosy,
and I always have been well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Some would say having gossip, having stories about someone is
having power as well. So I know that little Johnny
loves to go behind the bushes with a little coral.
I know this as my gossip. If I ever told
anyone you know what I mean, he knows I know,
so he won't beat me up, right.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely, and people too. People like gossip. When I go
on the morning shows, they're very sensitive about gossip. It's
sort of like a taboo, and so they call it
bus It's the same thing. They call it hot topics
on certain shows. It's the same thing. I love gossip,
and I like people gossiping about me too, And it
(02:38):
doesn't have to be mean. That's the mistake that people
make when they think of gossip. They think of people
saying really mean things about one another. I say nice things.
I do say some naughty things too, but I say
nice things too, and that's a gossip too. I want
to know who you're dating, what's going on in your life,
how much money you are. I love all that stuff.
I love looking at people's fringes. Last time I was
at your flat, your house, your apartments, in your fridge.
(03:00):
I love people's fridges. Fascinating.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Was there anything in there?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's very neat, very neat.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
See it now? All right? So this is rob Shooter.
This is the podcast where we find out more about
our friend Rob. Now I want to go back to Gossip,
but let's just cover a few of the foundational items.
Gossip columnist legendary. Also, you're an executive editor of Okay
magazine and you actually drove up circulation numbers in a crazy,
(03:30):
unprecedented way at the time. I want to find out how.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You did that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Also, publicist, you've been the publicist for several very famous
people that we all know and love. I want to
find out how you got into that and what good
it did for them and for you. Also, you wrote
a great book, Busy Busy, a very busy guy.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's all fun and they're all stepping stones that have
led to the next chapter in my life. To use
a book metaphor, they've all led to the next thing.
So if you don't like the job you're doing at
the moment, I figure out a way to get out
of it and figure out a way to get as
much out of it. Slightly different. They're not just leaving
the job, but how can you get as much out
of it as you possibly can. I fell into publicity.
(04:13):
I was a receptionist when I came to America. I
didn't have a green card. Initially, so I had to
do like these odd jobs. And finally when I got
a green card, I became a receptionist. I answered the
telephones at a big PR company, and it was the
most fabulous job I've ever had because I knew everything
because every phone call was before cell phones had to
come through my little switchboard.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh so you were of the pivot point.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I knew. I was like the center of this company,
probably the least paid person there and the lowest status.
But I figured out really quickly that I had enormous
power being on the phones with these celebrities calling in
or reporters calling in. And I learned my craft. I
learned how the business works from answering phones and listening. Listen,
be curious, be nosy. Let's go backward. Let's go back
(04:58):
to you growing up in the UK. Where are you from? Birmingham, England,
which I like to say is Chicago, but it's more
like Detroit.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's a little time.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It's luck right, it's a second city, part of the
Industrial Revolution, but that was a long time ago. So
now all the canals, all the big factories are a
little sort of any little bit, a little bit of
a Polish and so I grew up in this really
tough town, very working class. I'm the youngest of five.
My dad's a policeman, my mom a homemaker, and so
(05:28):
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.
And I wouldn't have it any other way. Now now
I've seen the nice side of the tracks. I like
by beginning, it was a really fun place, full of
lots of love. Not much else. We didn't have a
lot of money, but we had a lot of love.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Obviously, I'm going to make a guest here. You were
a lot different than most people you grew up with,
including your siblings. How were you different as a kid?
And looking back, that kid, little young robshooter, what do
you see in that young rumshooter? That was the spark
that turns who you are today? Like, how are you different?
But that's it?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
But I mean, I'm day, I'm openly gay. But that
wasn't my story. Early on a birth, my arm was damaged,
and so I was different as a old because I
spent an enormous amount of time in hospital. I nearly
lost my arm, and because of the damage to my arm,
I couldn't walk, So I had a walking stick. When
I was a child, I couldn't crawl because I didn't
(06:23):
have two arms, and I couldn't ride a bicycle. So
I always knew I was different physically, So.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, you so you were forced to be the different.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yes, And my arm was often in a sling, it
was often in a plaster.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
How did other kids treat you?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They treated me like I was odd, and I sort
of and I was, But I learned that that word
was a good word. Now when I see something odd,
I'm quite excited. Like when I find a play that's odd,
it means that I liked it. And so from really
from the early age, I was my mom who taught
me this, because there was no way I could fit
in with these other kids. I just couldn't do the
(06:57):
things that they were doing. And when I dried, I
was terribly sad. I remember once trying to climb a
rope with what arm. It can't be done how much
you wanted to, and I had the will of the desire,
but I just couldn't do it. I remember once on
a school trip, we were in a windboats and I
went round in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
A circle because I know, but listen to these things
as a child. These things can be devastating. Not only
are you worried about what people think about you, but
sometimes they may say things to your face that's just cruel.
But we learned that when you are different and you're
walking marching in a different manner than everyone else, then
(07:34):
you stand out. I stood out, So you were standing
out for maybe you would think at the time all
the wrong reasons, right right, and so did you? You
obviously have held on to that because you're still very room.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I'm different. It's awkward, and the thing is, I'm so
different that I couldn't run away from it. So my
sister everybody feels different as children, if you have a
few pimples on your face, or if you're not the
tallest person, or if you're too tall. I've talked about
how she felt different growing up. You can try to
fit in. I couldn't. I just I was I don't
(08:06):
walk in straight lines because of the way my balance is,
so I'm always banking into walls. So at like eight
years old, they're like, who's that drug kid in the school.
So I knew I was different and there was no
escape in it. So the choice was you have to
just celebrate this or you're gonna have a really miserable life.
And I remember really having that moment when I was like,
this is who I am. And I had an enormous
(08:27):
amount of physical therapy, and it was sort of mental
therapy too, So at a really early age I figured
out who I was.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Was there ever, like a defining moment you can recall
were you actually and you'll never forget it. You actually
remember saying it to yourself internally, or however, oh my god,
this is actually a great thing.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It came from a bad moment, but the good often
in life comes from the bad. I my sister was
very musical. I love music. A house was full of music.
We saw musicals on TV. We couldn't afford to get
to the broad theaters, the western theaters, but we saw
them on TV. I started to learn to play the clarinet.
The clarinet with one hand. Well, that was the problem.
(09:08):
Their teachers didn't figure out that after the first hand,
did you have to get to the second. And I
was so damn good at this clarinet that I live
through the first three fingers, and then when it came
to the other hand, I couldn't do it. So I
was a really promising clarinet player who really enjoyed it.
I practiced all the time, I enjoyed doing it, and
I had to give it up because I just couldn't.
I hit a wall, I couldn't learn the clarinet about
(09:30):
the drop it. That's what I did. That's what I did.
So I moved to the trumpet. And that was a
moment when a light bulb went off and I was like,
you know, there is a different road. There's a road
for all of us, and there's a way to get
to that dream on a different path. And I literally,
as a young boy, I cried and cried about having
(09:51):
to give up my clarinet, and it was almost like
a death, like I was so sad about this clarinet.
And within a few weeks the trumpet appeared in my
bedroom in my house. And I'm a really good trumpet player.
I played the trumpet. Now I'm not that rated it anymore.
I don't practice that much. But there's a path. It
might not be your first choice, it might not be
(10:11):
the path you thought it was going to be, but
there is a path.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, when your clarinet disappeared, keep in mind it was
just to have a clarinet that disappeared. You had no
clue about who was it to put that coronet or
trumpet in your my mom.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
My mom so felt so guilty because it was it
was a my almost damaged when I was born, and
so during birth it was a metal fourcep delivery that
pulled me out. I was a huge baby. I was
twelve pounds, which was the biggest baby they'd ever had
in that hospital. And my mom all her life has
felt that she didn't try hard enough or it was
her fault about it, and so I think that guilt
(10:51):
really made her jump into action. So it was my
mom that found the trumpet, and I remember like her
looking because you couldn't there was not the internet back then.
But I remember her like looking through catalogs of instruments
to see what you could play with one hand. Yeah,
there's going to be a guitar. Oh no, we can't
do the guitar. That's two hands.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
The piano.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh no, no, no, that's two hands the trumpet. And
that's how the trumpet appeared.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Wow. So you said you had five siblings and the
youngest the five. Okay, so five of you do you
feel like between us that you had a special connection
with your.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Then would say absolutely, and they think I'm a total
brat about it. And when I go back to Britain
and we have a family dinner, I always sit next
to Mim. I push everybody out the way. I want
to say, next to the barb and yeah, no, definitely
it's a bond. I think if a child has their
mothers love, their unconditional love, you can really go places.
Some of the superstars that I've worked with and when
(11:45):
I would ask them what made you so special, none
of them really said talent. It was about being loved
as a child. And so if you have kids out there,
really love them, really love them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I know I was very loved as a look at us,
look at us and I played the coroner as well.
So as a child, at what point did you realize, Okay,
there is going to be a future of me, Rob Shooter.
I think I would like to be a blank. I
would like to have a career because it looks cool
to me in the middle of something. Do you remember
(12:19):
what it was you first wanted to do when you
grew up.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wanted to be in politics. I thought going to
be I liked that Margaret Thatcher felt like she was
putting on a show. And in Britain we have this
thing called Prime Minister's question Time and it's televised, and
she would stand there in the in the middle of
the houses of Parliament and take questions and she was
so theatrical and so blazingly dramatic. It felt to me
(12:44):
like it was a play. And so I liked theater.
I couldn't act very well. I couldn't sing very well,
or though I was fabulous as model the Taylor in
Fiddler on the Room.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Oh talk about it well as in.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Edinburgh at the time, and you would have thought we
would have done Brigadoo. No, it is Scottish production. A
Fiddler on the Roof Gentiles don't like. So I liked theater,
but I didn't want to get that road. So I
ended up getting my masters in political science, and the
plan was to go to London and sort of be
an mpiece assistant and work my way up in that world.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Do you love me?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Do I? What?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Do you love me?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Do I love you? For twenty five years of clea
your mails and.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Fund your mouth? Is that I think you do? I remember?
Do you love me? Do I? What?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Do, I what what She's just cleaning the house leaving alone.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
A great musical. Okay, So politicians also have this. They
have to be they have to be dramatic, they have
to be show busy.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's so busy it is.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And so I think that's something you have clung onto
to this very day, the need to get your point across.
You gotta be over the top.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, I like. I like to argue. I like to disagree.
I hope I'm not disagreeable, but I like debates. I
like difficult subjects. I think I can find a middle
ground hopefully with people. And I think, like challenge yourself,
hang out with people who don't agree with you. It's
such a much it's much more of a fun night, so.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Uncomfortable thinking about it. For some people, I happen to
agree that I want to disagree.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yes, I love that, and sometimes too, I'm so contrary too.
But as far as like being over the top and
show busy, it's who I am, like I don't like
some of our friends. People we know can be very
flashy when they're on the microphone or on television, and
a little bit dull behind the scenes. Kim Kardashian and
so like, oh no, sorry, she's I had to dinner
(14:49):
with Kim. It's a little doll. Yeah, it's a little doll.
But on the show she's terrific. But I'm as this
ridiculous at dinner. You get it is what it is, Yes,
you are okay.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So jumping from I'm thinking about me a politician to
being fascinated with the world of celebrity. Oh I love them.
How did that bridge happen?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Well, I always loved the Royals, and to us they
were celebrities. So the Royals were a Kardashians. They still
are still. I loved all the glamour of it, and
I loved Dynasty, the TV show, and I liked like
diamonds and crowns and so I loved all that dressing
up stuff. So in Britain it wasn't quite as as
glamorous as American celebrities. We loved the American celebrities. So
(15:29):
I always liked celebrities. I always liked reading the magazines.
I used to spend my pocket money and buy the
Smash Hits, which was a weekly magazine about all your
favorite pop stars. I'd save up my money to go
and see them in concert. Or their movies. And I
remember I got to meet Farah Fawcett, Oh wow, who
(15:49):
had a fragrance. And poor Farah had to come to Birmingham,
England to sell as fragrance at debonums, which she didn't
really want to do, but nevertheless it was her.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
She signed a contract took up legally bound.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Harold's five Paris fight birbing Gum. But she had took
up to Birmingam and I waited it lie to beat
Farah Foscett. I couldn't afford the fragrance. But she signed
a little postcard that they were handing out for AE
and I framed it so I looked at it and
I was like, oh, I want to be part of
this world. I knew I didn't have her talent, but
there there was a way for me to be part
(16:25):
of that world.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I had that Farah Fawcet poster on my well when
I was in the school I was a little kid.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yes, I think it's still the biggest selling poster of
all the red bathing suit.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Do you remember? Do you know who designed that red
bathing suit? Who I used to know? I don't know.
I'll get back to you on.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And she hung up the blanket behind her. Originally it
was just her standing there and she found it in
the back of a car or something. This Indian tapestry.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I do believe Norma Komali design. Was it Norma Kamali?
We interviewed her, didn't we Norma Kamali? I think we
did anyway, Moving on blah but okay, So, but at
what point did you realize you wanted to have a
career that was a part of celebrity. I mean, how
did you make that connection.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I wasn't from the background where I could make choices,
so I think a lot of people in life wonder
how did you make that choice. I had to fall
into whatever job took me, so I needed to make money.
And so if I'd got a first job working at Starbucks,
then I might have took a very different road. I
had a friend who worked at a PR company and
(17:28):
they were opening up a New York office and they
were like, do you want to answer the phones? And
I and I was like, I can answer phones. I
know how to do that, and then I learned the job.
There there's very few jobs that we can't learn how
to do, Like brain surgery is one, and sort of,
I guess flying a plane and being a pilot, although
they learned both of those jobs at some point did learn.
(17:50):
They didn't doctor Ars didn't wake up being doctor, or
he wasn't born doctor Ars. He learned the craft. And
so I'm a big believer that if you are willing
to do the work, you can do anything. Can I
do the work? And I learned it from all the
celebrities I work for. When you look at these big stars,
you think of them as just so naturally gorgeous and talented,
they're not. They weren't born stars. They became stars.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So here we are working at a PR agency in
New York City, and wow, how exciting.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It was this kid from Birmingham is now living in
New York City. How much were we making? Remember your salary?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think it was maybe twenty five thousand dollars a
year in New York City, New York City, and I
represented every tea and spoon and beauty in the beanst
on Broadway. So it was never lie any big stars.
Michelle Lee from Lots Landing was my first sort of celebrity.
And then this beautiful, beautiful young model who was on
the cover of GQ hired me and she didn't know
(18:47):
at the time, but it was Tyra Banks, and so
Tyra was the one that changed my career a little bit.
And then I went on to work with j Loo,
Jennifer Lopez and Diddy and bon Jovi and Alicia Keys
and Jessica Simpson. It was really really fun, fun life.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
These are a heavy duty names.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
There are big stars, and it was wild to see
to be with them, and I was never jaded about it.
I loved it. I had like a front row seat
watching pop culture history be made, and so I was
always really excited to be there. I felt very privileged
that this kid from Birmingham was sitting next to Jlo
in a fabulous car going to the men.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
You were watching pop history being made, but you were
a part of making it as well. Explain to everyone
what you would do for the Jennifer lopezz and the
bon Jovies of the world.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
When you're a publicist for a big star, you were
inundated with requests, and so your job is to figure
out what is the best request for them. Wanted to
cover glamor would want Jaylo on the cover. So Jennifer
Sell sold magazine she still does, and so she would
get these incredible offers to do all these covers, and
all the TV shows want her, and she only has
so much time, and career wise, you have to make
(19:54):
right choices. And so if you're going to do a
serious movie, you might not want to be on the
cover of Cosmo, which is a very sexual magazine, and
you might want to be on a different choice. And
so if you want to change your image or adapt
to you are a seller product, we would find those
best ways to do it. And then there's a lot
of crisis. PR two, when she broke up with with
(20:14):
Ben for the first time. I wrote the breakup statement
like I was on the phone with Jennifer, right, And
it's always the same statement. It's always like, please respect
our privacy and we're still best friends, none of which
is true.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, So I always find it fascinating when a celebrity
couple breaks up there is an announcement. The rest of
us we would never make the announcement because no one
gives a flying fuck, right, But why does there need
to be an announcement about a breakup with a celebrity couple.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It really doesn't need to be but the reason it's
done is because you want to tell your own story.
It's a good lesson in all our lives, tell your
own story. So we might not put out an announcement
when we break up, but we do call our best friend.
And that's the same thing. Really in the celebrity world,
the audience, their public is someone an extension of their
friendship group, a very powerful group who really afford them
(21:06):
the life they have. And so when when Jessica Simpson
broke up with Nick, I think before she told Nick,
she told me like Jessica called me and said this
is over, and we drafted a statement and then we
worked with Nick's people to massage it a little bit,
and then we put out a statement. And then I
think they enjoy to a certain extent all the noise
(21:27):
and drama that comes around that, but they also to
give them a chance to move on with their lives.
And so I think there's also a great relief too
when relationships are not good. It doesn't you don't have
to be famous for this, want you want it to
be done. There's a relief sometimes when it's over. And
so I found that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
There's still a story there, there's a story and you
know what, that's what That's what keeps everyone relevant. Even
if you're not a celebrity, you always have to have
a story going on. Think about it as you listen
to this podcast with our guest Rob Shooter, think about
where your story is right now. Friends, they're all talking
about you because of why you just broke up with someone,
or you just made this incredible dinner the other night,
(22:05):
and other friends were pissed off they weren't invited. Whatever.
We all have stories. So even in a break up announcement,
that's a story.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Everyone has a story.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It keeps your name up there. What about other crisis work,
I mean, people get into legal problem.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, I did, he during all his legal stuff. Naomi
Campbell hired me after she allegedly hit someone. Yeah, and
so I you know, the best thing to do is
not to make it any worse for yourself. And this
is a good lesson for all of us. When I
mess up, and I do a lot, you want to
apologize quickly, You want to take responsibility, and then you
(22:46):
want to shut up. Ashley Simpson hired me after lip
syncing on SNL. That was a major thing, major because
her career was just exploding, and she went on Saturday
Night Live. It was her first live performance and it
did not go well, and so within a week she
hired me. And my best advice to her was, we
just put out a statement and then we move on.
(23:07):
We try and suck the oxygen out of the fire,
and we don't ever talk about it again. So you
will never hear Ashley say the S word. We don't
talk about Saturday Night Live, and we play role play too.
Is a really good publicist? Your role play? So I'll
ask you questions like Ashley, you know that's terrible, what
happened on SNL? How are you doing? And we would
(23:27):
practice what the answer was going to be, and often too,
the answer isn't words, It's just the noise. H ah
See how long you can be on the phone with
a friend and not speak.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I can go hours? Hmm what really?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And people are so uncomfortable with you would practice making noise,
grunting noises and if you don't want them to move on,
that's hilarious. I know what I charged the enormous about
a body that I'm so sorry everybody.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Okay, so you started in publicity and then you ended
up at Okay, magazine. Now, okay magazine always known for
being a great, colorful way to find out what's going
on with celebrities. But for some reason, when you arrived
there as the executive editor, things blew up there. What
did you do with that magazine that caused such a stir.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
When I arrived? It was not doing terribly well. It
was a enormous magazine in Britain. It still is. It's
like the People magazine of Britain. And then they launched
in America, assuming that their heritage, their name would just
attract an audience. He didn't you have to fight for
every sale here in America, And so they were very
celebrity friendly, which translated into dull. And so I changed
(24:46):
it from being celebrity friendly to naughty but nice. And
that's how I came up with a phrase that's really
changed my life. We're not mean girls, We're not gonna
we're not gonna punch you. We might pinch you, but
we're cheeky. And I think you can tell a story
in a cheeky way that you might not like two
or three of the words in it, but overall you'll
(25:07):
like it. And I've a beautiful picture of you your
look glorious. The headline will be fine, but there might
be a few little things in the story that you're like, oh,
but that's what makes it interesting for readers. So we
just change the tone of the magazine. And I would
argue that's the most important thing to learning life. The
keys in the lock, you've just got to turn it.
People throw out the baby with the bath water. Don't
(25:29):
do that. The magazine's doing okay. It's not a deact, literally,
it's okay, which is also a very weird name for
a magazine. I'm my magazine to be called amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
You don't want ever.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I'm okay, okay, And so you put a little bit
of fairy just on it. You make it a little
bit more exciting. You tell stories that people want to hear,
and ultimately, the stories that do the best are stories
that we care about in our own lives. Breakups, relationships, babies,
all those major milestones in your personal life are also
(26:00):
true with magazines. They really sell well. So we just
changed the emphasis a little bit. We became naughty but nice,
and initially some of the celebrities were horrified by this,
but they came around. They saw we were not going
to take Dick's well, just.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Go back to that. Then some celebrities were horrified. You
had already you already knew what it was like being
a publicist. Now you have publicists calling you at Okay
magazine saying, what the hell, why are you printing this
about my client? How did you work there?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Must have made it easy if Chesier, I could go
in and I knew from my own clients, like often
it wasn't the text they cared about. It was the
picture Jailo. For instance, you got to do a beautiful
picture of Jailo and she might not read the story,
but she would see the picture. And so we always
packaged even the most smelly stories in a beautiful rose
(26:48):
rose fragrance ribbon, and so everything looked pretty. It smelled pretty,
but if you read it, it also told the truth
in a nice way. I can find nice stories there
when anybody you can just change the way you tell
a story. When I tell stories of Britney spears, and
you know, there's some stuff there that isn't that pretty,
but you can tell it in a sympathetic way. And
(27:09):
so I always put things through the filter of optimism.
Lindsay lowhands somebody to where we're always like, we're always
rooting for her comeback, and so I don't take I
don't take the low road. And I think this is
a mistake certainly my friends make and I've made, is
that people think being mean makes them witty, makes them
oscar wild. It doesn't. It just makes you mean. If
(27:30):
you want to be Oscar wild, be interesting and nice.
That's really hard. It's really easy to be mean and witty.
It's so easy to get a laugh by being mean.
What's hard is to get a laugh by being nice.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
But you know what, being a publicist and also actually
rolling it into a career as an executive editor in
Okay magazine, that's a sales job.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Sales.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
And you know what, if someone said to me today, Elvis,
you've got to go out and sell, so I would
get nervous and I would crack my pants. But you're
actually selling. You're selling, you're selling talent, you're selling looks,
you're selling this being. You're creating a monster, a great, wonderful,
glorious monster, out of someone who's just a normal human being.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And it goes back to what politicians do. This is
what I was meant to do. I'm really good at
package and stuff. I'm not the greatest reporter, I'm not
the greatest writer, but I know how to package. And
that's what magazines do, that's what celebrities do, that's what
politicians do, that's what the greatest brands do. And that
led me to do my book. And the takeaway from
(28:36):
all those celebrities were that the most successful people I'd
ever met knew who they were, and the really super
successful ones knew who they were in just four words,
just four words?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You was just did you masterfully changed the conversation to
about your book. I was moving in a lot. You're
a master at this. Okay, let's talk about your book.
The four word answer. I love it, and you make
it seem easy. It's not as easy as you think.
I believe in correct me if I'm wrong, Rob. Your
(29:06):
philosophy is you should be able to succinctly describe you
and your talent in fowards.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Look in the mirror every morning and who are you?
In four words? I'm naughty, I'm nice, I'm smart, I'm important?
Are you kind?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Are you cheeky? Who are you? In four words?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And every morning you remind yourself who am I, And
it's harder to lose.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Your way in life if you know who you are.
So talk about the journey through this book. It has
to be more than just that simple principle. Well, that's
the principle that holds the book together. And then what
I did is I took all the celebrities I worked with,
most of the celebrities I worked with, and I applied
it to them or I explain how they applied this
(29:43):
to their lives, and I came up with a word
for all these celebrities. I knew all four of their words,
and it's quite surprising, like one of the words for
Jennifer Lopez was kind. Now, a lot of people would
not assume Jennifer Lopez is kind, and I'm not making
the case that she is Florence night Gale. What I'm
saying is that her definition of kindness is something we
should all think about. Jennifer's kind to herself. She doesn't
(30:06):
call herself names, she doesn't beat herself up, She encourages herself.
And if we could all be kind to ourselves as
kind to ourselves as we would be to a best friend.
I say things to myself or I used to say
things to myself that I'd never say to a friend.
I'd never be that cruel to a friend, So why
the hell am I being that cruel to me? So
there's a whole chapter on kindness from Jessica Simpson. Jessica
(30:29):
was a really interesting one because Jessica taught me that
she's the smartest person in the world. She's as dumb
as a fox, you think, but she's got a billion
dollars to prove how smart she is. And what I
learned about smart is that the only thing that makes
she smart is the willingness to try. Jessica just kept trying.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
She kept getting beat up, knocked down publicly, and she
got back up. Remember this, Really smart people fail all
the time, but they keep on going. So there's a
whole chapter I'm being smart? Did? He taught me how
to feel like I was important? If you think you
are important, you will invest in yourself. You'll invest in
(31:08):
what you eat, if you work out, you'll invest in
your education. And so it's very, very important to feel important.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Where do you see this moving for you next? Or
is it too premature to know? Or are you not
like a one year, five year, ten year plan. Guy
I mean you said earlier that all these things went
into play to move you to the next level, to
a next layer. Where do you think your next layer
(31:39):
could lie?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Or you're right. I didn't have options when I was younger,
so I just had to fall into whatever job came along.
And I'm grateful for the jobs I fell into. But
now I have a lot of options. Now I'm very successful.
But I thought about this a couple of nights ago.
If I was playing a game show and I could
gamble my life today, who I am for the billion dollars,
the million dollars, what I do? And I'd hit pause.
(32:02):
I'm really happy with this. I love my piece of
the pie. I've had opportunities that potentially could have led
to much greater success. I don't know if I want it.
I'm not that driven. I like this life. I don't
want it, and I know really famous people. I don't
want people taking my photograph when I'm drunk in a bar.
(32:22):
I don't want people chasing me around. I'm famous enough
that I can get a dinner reservation and maybe a
free isert particulate Forresco pie Scotts but delicious, But I
don't I don't need any more than that. I like
this life. I would hit pause right.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Now, but Rob, you know that when you hit pause,
that's when the opportunity is just don't they flow your way?
And this is all a pl of.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yours, all a plot, but the nicest opportunity that came recently,
primarily through you too, so thank you was iHeart approached
me about doing a daily show. And so now every
morning I have a twenty minute gossip show celebrity show.
It's called Naughty but Nice and for twenty minutes, we
do all the stories you want to know about it.
Because I do this for a living. It's not one
of those podcasts where we just talk about stories on
(33:04):
the internet. We break stories. We have news out there,
we push stories forward. We know what's going on with
Megan Mark, and we know what's going on with Liza.
I've been in those rooms where crisis happens and what's
going on inside her camp, and we talk about that
and it's become terribly successful and it's a joy to do,
and so that's my big big push at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's fun. Well, Rob, this has been a wonderful time
we could spend together. I learned so much about you.
I thought I knew everything, but I didn't know. But
I will tell you this. I know you don't want
to be one of those people who has your picture
drunk in a bar. But guess what, I've got photos
of you drunk in a bar. But I'm drunk right
next to you, So that's right guilty together. So where
(33:45):
do you find Rob? You find them not a but
nice here on iHeart you also can pick up his
book The Four Word Answer. And where else are we finding? You?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And I have a website called Naughty Gossip Each dare.
There's about twenty of us. It's a really unusual business.
So I've basically given all my friends password to our
reporters or editors, and they just go on and post
their own stories. So where they see stuff out, they
post stuff and it's updated all the time, and it's
a great gig. I feel like a little mini sort
of company. It's amazing how responsible I've become sort of.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You've got lots of MutS going on, but don't be
too responsible, and I know you know that that would
be a big mistake, a mistake. I love you, Robshooter,
I love you.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Thank you for allowing everybody to be deliciously odd, deliciously unusual.
And remember you're not a misfit when you're around other misfits.
Find your tribe. They are out there. I used to
didn't believe that I would ever fit in, and I
found my people. I did find them.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
They do exist. Wasn't that fascinating? He is such a
tremendous friend and a talented and very well connected gossip columnist.
Many many years of Rob Shooter ahead. He's been our
friends for over ten years, and it's I'm looking forward
to another ten years with them. Some great takeaways on
how to embrace your unique identity. I love that part.
(35:05):
If you didn't hear it, go back and listen to it. Also,
Rob talked about how to stand out in a crowd.
We're so thankful for you stopping by. Rob, Thank you
so much for chatting with us on this episode. All right,
more to con We've got a lot of great guests
lined up. You're not going to want to miss them.
Make sure you like, rate and review, and subscribe to
Thinking out Loud wherever you get your podcast, especially right
here at the iHeartRadio app. Until next time, Peace out,
(35:29):
everybody Thinking out Loud is hosted by me Elvis Duran.
The podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive
producers are Andrew Paglsi and Katrina Norvel. Special thanks to
David Katz, Michael kind Heart, and Caitlin Madore. Thinking out
Loud is part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeartRadio.
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
(35:51):
if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
I'm Elvis Duran.
Hey, welcome back. It's another episode of Thinking out Loud.
I'm Elvis Durant. We've got a very very special guest today,
our really dear friend, Rob Shooter. It's kind of funny
how you think you know someone, but there are so
many things about them you don't know. Let's find out
more about Rob today. You may know him as naughty
but Nice Rob. He's a world renowned gossip columnist. I
guess he likes that title. We'll find out. But how
(00:21):
does one get into a world of gossip? How did
he do it? Where did he start? And is there
such a thing as good gossip? We'll find out in
this podcast with Rob Shooter. Let's get to know it.
One of my favorite things about doing this podcast is
I'm actually sitting down with people I know or I
thought I knew. Rob Shooter is here. We've known each
(00:45):
other for how many years?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Gosh, it must be a decade, Elvis, like at least
at least like ten, fifteen, fifteen. Yeahs, It's amazing. Though
you do know people for a long time, but.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Do you really know them? Well? That's the thing that's
what I love about this podcast. I can sit down
with people that I know and ask questions about things
we've never talked about.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I think that friendships and relationships have so many
different colors to them. And what we would talk about
on a night in a bar, if we bump into
each other at a fabulous party, isn't always what you
want to talk about in the day or earlier on
in the evening. And so we can explore different aspects
of stuff that just don't come up in regular sort
(01:26):
of life.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Then let's do it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Jump in.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, So Rob Shooter, legendary gossip columnist, does Z one
of many.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
People don't like the word gossip. So I think in
our business the word gossip is sort of like being
maybe below a reality star, like it's something that people
really cringe about. I love that word. I love gossip.
I've always liked gossip. I've always been nosy. When I
was a little boy at school, I knew everyone's gossip
in the playground. It saved me from being beat up.
(01:54):
I like gossip, I like being curious. I love being nosy,
and I always have been well.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Some would say having gossip, having stories about someone is
having power as well. So I know that little Johnny
loves to go behind the bushes with a little coral.
I know this as my gossip. If I ever told
anyone you know what I mean, he knows I know,
so he won't beat me up, right.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Absolutely, and people too. People like gossip. When I go
on the morning shows, they're very sensitive about gossip. It's
sort of like a taboo, and so they call it
bus It's the same thing. They call it hot topics
on certain shows. It's the same thing. I love gossip,
and I like people gossiping about me too, And it
(02:38):
doesn't have to be mean. That's the mistake that people
make when they think of gossip. They think of people
saying really mean things about one another. I say nice things.
I do say some naughty things too, but I say
nice things too, and that's a gossip too. I want
to know who you're dating, what's going on in your life,
how much money you are. I love all that stuff.
I love looking at people's fringes. Last time I was
at your flat, your house, your apartments, in your fridge.
(03:00):
I love people's fridges. Fascinating.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Was there anything in there?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's very neat, very neat.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
See it now? All right? So this is rob Shooter.
This is the podcast where we find out more about
our friend Rob. Now I want to go back to Gossip,
but let's just cover a few of the foundational items.
Gossip columnist legendary. Also, you're an executive editor of Okay
magazine and you actually drove up circulation numbers in a crazy,
(03:30):
unprecedented way at the time. I want to find out how.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You did that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Also, publicist, you've been the publicist for several very famous
people that we all know and love. I want to
find out how you got into that and what good
it did for them and for you. Also, you wrote
a great book, Busy Busy, a very busy guy.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's all fun and they're all stepping stones that have
led to the next chapter in my life. To use
a book metaphor, they've all led to the next thing.
So if you don't like the job you're doing at
the moment, I figure out a way to get out
of it and figure out a way to get as
much out of it. Slightly different. They're not just leaving
the job, but how can you get as much out
of it as you possibly can. I fell into publicity.
(04:13):
I was a receptionist when I came to America. I
didn't have a green card. Initially, so I had to
do like these odd jobs. And finally when I got
a green card, I became a receptionist. I answered the
telephones at a big PR company, and it was the
most fabulous job I've ever had because I knew everything
because every phone call was before cell phones had to
come through my little switchboard.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh so you were of the pivot point.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I knew. I was like the center of this company,
probably the least paid person there and the lowest status.
But I figured out really quickly that I had enormous
power being on the phones with these celebrities calling in
or reporters calling in. And I learned my craft. I
learned how the business works from answering phones and listening. Listen,
be curious, be nosy. Let's go backward. Let's go back
(04:58):
to you growing up in the UK. Where are you from? Birmingham, England,
which I like to say is Chicago, but it's more
like Detroit.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's a little time.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It's luck right, it's a second city, part of the
Industrial Revolution, but that was a long time ago. So
now all the canals, all the big factories are a
little sort of any little bit, a little bit of
a Polish and so I grew up in this really
tough town, very working class. I'm the youngest of five.
My dad's a policeman, my mom a homemaker, and so
(05:28):
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.
And I wouldn't have it any other way. Now now
I've seen the nice side of the tracks. I like
by beginning, it was a really fun place, full of
lots of love. Not much else. We didn't have a
lot of money, but we had a lot of love.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Obviously, I'm going to make a guest here. You were
a lot different than most people you grew up with,
including your siblings. How were you different as a kid?
And looking back, that kid, little young robshooter, what do
you see in that young rumshooter? That was the spark
that turns who you are today? Like, how are you different?
But that's it?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
But I mean, I'm day, I'm openly gay. But that
wasn't my story. Early on a birth, my arm was damaged,
and so I was different as a old because I
spent an enormous amount of time in hospital. I nearly
lost my arm, and because of the damage to my arm,
I couldn't walk, So I had a walking stick. When
I was a child, I couldn't crawl because I didn't
(06:23):
have two arms, and I couldn't ride a bicycle. So
I always knew I was different physically, So.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, you so you were forced to be the different.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yes, And my arm was often in a sling, it
was often in a plaster.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
How did other kids treat you?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
They treated me like I was odd, and I sort
of and I was, But I learned that that word
was a good word. Now when I see something odd,
I'm quite excited. Like when I find a play that's odd,
it means that I liked it. And so from really
from the early age, I was my mom who taught
me this, because there was no way I could fit
in with these other kids. I just couldn't do the
(06:57):
things that they were doing. And when I dried, I
was terribly sad. I remember once trying to climb a
rope with what arm. It can't be done how much
you wanted to, and I had the will of the desire,
but I just couldn't do it. I remember once on
a school trip, we were in a windboats and I
went round in.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
A circle because I know, but listen to these things
as a child. These things can be devastating. Not only
are you worried about what people think about you, but
sometimes they may say things to your face that's just cruel.
But we learned that when you are different and you're
walking marching in a different manner than everyone else, then
(07:34):
you stand out. I stood out, So you were standing
out for maybe you would think at the time all
the wrong reasons, right right, and so did you? You
obviously have held on to that because you're still very room.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I'm different. It's awkward, and the thing is, I'm so
different that I couldn't run away from it. So my
sister everybody feels different as children, if you have a
few pimples on your face, or if you're not the
tallest person, or if you're too tall. I've talked about
how she felt different growing up. You can try to
fit in. I couldn't. I just I was I don't
(08:06):
walk in straight lines because of the way my balance is,
so I'm always banking into walls. So at like eight
years old, they're like, who's that drug kid in the school.
So I knew I was different and there was no
escape in it. So the choice was you have to
just celebrate this or you're gonna have a really miserable life.
And I remember really having that moment when I was like,
this is who I am. And I had an enormous
(08:27):
amount of physical therapy, and it was sort of mental
therapy too, So at a really early age I figured
out who I was.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Was there ever, like a defining moment you can recall
were you actually and you'll never forget it. You actually
remember saying it to yourself internally, or however, oh my god,
this is actually a great thing.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It came from a bad moment, but the good often
in life comes from the bad. I my sister was
very musical. I love music. A house was full of music.
We saw musicals on TV. We couldn't afford to get
to the broad theaters, the western theaters, but we saw
them on TV. I started to learn to play the clarinet.
The clarinet with one hand. Well, that was the problem.
(09:08):
Their teachers didn't figure out that after the first hand,
did you have to get to the second. And I
was so damn good at this clarinet that I live
through the first three fingers, and then when it came
to the other hand, I couldn't do it. So I
was a really promising clarinet player who really enjoyed it.
I practiced all the time, I enjoyed doing it, and
I had to give it up because I just couldn't.
I hit a wall, I couldn't learn the clarinet about
(09:30):
the drop it. That's what I did. That's what I did.
So I moved to the trumpet. And that was a
moment when a light bulb went off and I was like,
you know, there is a different road. There's a road
for all of us, and there's a way to get
to that dream on a different path. And I literally,
as a young boy, I cried and cried about having
(09:51):
to give up my clarinet, and it was almost like
a death, like I was so sad about this clarinet.
And within a few weeks the trumpet appeared in my
bedroom in my house. And I'm a really good trumpet player.
I played the trumpet. Now I'm not that rated it anymore.
I don't practice that much. But there's a path. It
might not be your first choice, it might not be
(10:11):
the path you thought it was going to be, but
there is a path.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Well, when your clarinet disappeared, keep in mind it was
just to have a clarinet that disappeared. You had no
clue about who was it to put that coronet or
trumpet in your my mom.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
My mom so felt so guilty because it was it
was a my almost damaged when I was born, and
so during birth it was a metal fourcep delivery that
pulled me out. I was a huge baby. I was
twelve pounds, which was the biggest baby they'd ever had
in that hospital. And my mom all her life has
felt that she didn't try hard enough or it was
her fault about it, and so I think that guilt
(10:51):
really made her jump into action. So it was my
mom that found the trumpet, and I remember like her
looking because you couldn't there was not the internet back then.
But I remember her like looking through catalogs of instruments
to see what you could play with one hand. Yeah,
there's going to be a guitar. Oh no, we can't
do the guitar. That's two hands.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
The piano.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh no, no, no, that's two hands the trumpet. And
that's how the trumpet appeared.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Wow. So you said you had five siblings and the
youngest the five. Okay, so five of you do you
feel like between us that you had a special connection
with your.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Then would say absolutely, and they think I'm a total
brat about it. And when I go back to Britain
and we have a family dinner, I always sit next
to Mim. I push everybody out the way. I want
to say, next to the barb and yeah, no, definitely
it's a bond. I think if a child has their
mothers love, their unconditional love, you can really go places.
Some of the superstars that I've worked with and when
(11:45):
I would ask them what made you so special, none
of them really said talent. It was about being loved
as a child. And so if you have kids out there,
really love them, really love them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I know I was very loved as a look at us,
look at us and I played the coroner as well.
So as a child, at what point did you realize, Okay,
there is going to be a future of me, Rob Shooter.
I think I would like to be a blank. I
would like to have a career because it looks cool
to me in the middle of something. Do you remember
(12:19):
what it was you first wanted to do when you
grew up.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I wanted to be in politics. I thought going to
be I liked that Margaret Thatcher felt like she was
putting on a show. And in Britain we have this
thing called Prime Minister's question Time and it's televised, and
she would stand there in the in the middle of
the houses of Parliament and take questions and she was
so theatrical and so blazingly dramatic. It felt to me
(12:44):
like it was a play. And so I liked theater.
I couldn't act very well. I couldn't sing very well,
or though I was fabulous as model the Taylor in
Fiddler on the Room.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Oh talk about it well as in.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Edinburgh at the time, and you would have thought we
would have done Brigadoo. No, it is Scottish production. A
Fiddler on the Roof Gentiles don't like. So I liked theater,
but I didn't want to get that road. So I
ended up getting my masters in political science, and the
plan was to go to London and sort of be
an mpiece assistant and work my way up in that world.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Do you love me?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Do I? What?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Do you love me?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Do I love you? For twenty five years of clea
your mails and.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Fund your mouth? Is that I think you do? I remember?
Do you love me? Do I? What?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Do, I what what She's just cleaning the house leaving alone.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
A great musical. Okay, So politicians also have this. They
have to be they have to be dramatic, they have
to be show busy.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
It's so busy it is.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
And so I think that's something you have clung onto
to this very day, the need to get your point across.
You gotta be over the top.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, I like. I like to argue. I like to disagree.
I hope I'm not disagreeable, but I like debates. I
like difficult subjects. I think I can find a middle
ground hopefully with people. And I think, like challenge yourself,
hang out with people who don't agree with you. It's
such a much it's much more of a fun night, so.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Uncomfortable thinking about it. For some people, I happen to
agree that I want to disagree.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yes, I love that, and sometimes too, I'm so contrary too.
But as far as like being over the top and
show busy, it's who I am, like I don't like
some of our friends. People we know can be very
flashy when they're on the microphone or on television, and
a little bit dull behind the scenes. Kim Kardashian and
so like, oh no, sorry, she's I had to dinner
(14:49):
with Kim. It's a little doll. Yeah, it's a little doll.
But on the show she's terrific. But I'm as this
ridiculous at dinner. You get it is what it is, Yes,
you are okay.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So jumping from I'm thinking about me a politician to
being fascinated with the world of celebrity. Oh I love them.
How did that bridge happen?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Well, I always loved the Royals, and to us they
were celebrities. So the Royals were a Kardashians. They still
are still. I loved all the glamour of it, and
I loved Dynasty, the TV show, and I liked like
diamonds and crowns and so I loved all that dressing
up stuff. So in Britain it wasn't quite as as
glamorous as American celebrities. We loved the American celebrities. So
(15:29):
I always liked celebrities. I always liked reading the magazines.
I used to spend my pocket money and buy the
Smash Hits, which was a weekly magazine about all your
favorite pop stars. I'd save up my money to go
and see them in concert. Or their movies. And I
remember I got to meet Farah Fawcett, Oh wow, who
(15:49):
had a fragrance. And poor Farah had to come to Birmingham,
England to sell as fragrance at debonums, which she didn't
really want to do, but nevertheless it was her.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
She signed a contract took up legally bound.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Harold's five Paris fight birbing Gum. But she had took
up to Birmingam and I waited it lie to beat
Farah Foscett. I couldn't afford the fragrance. But she signed
a little postcard that they were handing out for AE
and I framed it so I looked at it and
I was like, oh, I want to be part of
this world. I knew I didn't have her talent, but
there there was a way for me to be part
(16:25):
of that world.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I had that Farah Fawcet poster on my well when
I was in the school I was a little kid.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yes, I think it's still the biggest selling poster of
all the red bathing suit.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Do you remember? Do you know who designed that red
bathing suit? Who I used to know? I don't know.
I'll get back to you on.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And she hung up the blanket behind her. Originally it
was just her standing there and she found it in
the back of a car or something. This Indian tapestry.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I do believe Norma Komali design. Was it Norma Kamali?
We interviewed her, didn't we Norma Kamali? I think we
did anyway, Moving on blah but okay, So, but at
what point did you realize you wanted to have a
career that was a part of celebrity. I mean, how
did you make that connection.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I wasn't from the background where I could make choices,
so I think a lot of people in life wonder
how did you make that choice. I had to fall
into whatever job took me, so I needed to make money.
And so if I'd got a first job working at Starbucks,
then I might have took a very different road. I
had a friend who worked at a PR company and
(17:28):
they were opening up a New York office and they
were like, do you want to answer the phones? And
I and I was like, I can answer phones. I
know how to do that, and then I learned the job.
There there's very few jobs that we can't learn how
to do, Like brain surgery is one, and sort of,
I guess flying a plane and being a pilot, although
they learned both of those jobs at some point did learn.
(17:50):
They didn't doctor Ars didn't wake up being doctor, or
he wasn't born doctor Ars. He learned the craft. And
so I'm a big believer that if you are willing
to do the work, you can do anything. Can I
do the work? And I learned it from all the
celebrities I work for. When you look at these big stars,
you think of them as just so naturally gorgeous and talented,
they're not. They weren't born stars. They became stars.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So here we are working at a PR agency in
New York City, and wow, how exciting.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
It was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It was this kid from Birmingham is now living in
New York City. How much were we making? Remember your salary?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think it was maybe twenty five thousand dollars a
year in New York City, New York City, and I
represented every tea and spoon and beauty in the beanst
on Broadway. So it was never lie any big stars.
Michelle Lee from Lots Landing was my first sort of celebrity.
And then this beautiful, beautiful young model who was on
the cover of GQ hired me and she didn't know
(18:47):
at the time, but it was Tyra Banks, and so
Tyra was the one that changed my career a little bit.
And then I went on to work with j Loo,
Jennifer Lopez and Diddy and bon Jovi and Alicia Keys
and Jessica Simpson. It was really really fun, fun life.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
These are a heavy duty names.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
There are big stars, and it was wild to see
to be with them, and I was never jaded about it.
I loved it. I had like a front row seat
watching pop culture history be made, and so I was
always really excited to be there. I felt very privileged
that this kid from Birmingham was sitting next to Jlo
in a fabulous car going to the men.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
You were watching pop history being made, but you were
a part of making it as well. Explain to everyone
what you would do for the Jennifer lopezz and the
bon Jovies of the world.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
When you're a publicist for a big star, you were
inundated with requests, and so your job is to figure
out what is the best request for them. Wanted to
cover glamor would want Jaylo on the cover. So Jennifer
Sell sold magazine she still does, and so she would
get these incredible offers to do all these covers, and
all the TV shows want her, and she only has
so much time, and career wise, you have to make
(19:54):
right choices. And so if you're going to do a
serious movie, you might not want to be on the
cover of Cosmo, which is a very sexual magazine, and
you might want to be on a different choice. And
so if you want to change your image or adapt
to you are a seller product, we would find those
best ways to do it. And then there's a lot
of crisis. PR two, when she broke up with with
(20:14):
Ben for the first time. I wrote the breakup statement
like I was on the phone with Jennifer, right, And
it's always the same statement. It's always like, please respect
our privacy and we're still best friends, none of which
is true.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Okay, So I always find it fascinating when a celebrity
couple breaks up there is an announcement. The rest of
us we would never make the announcement because no one
gives a flying fuck, right, But why does there need
to be an announcement about a breakup with a celebrity couple.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
It really doesn't need to be but the reason it's
done is because you want to tell your own story.
It's a good lesson in all our lives, tell your
own story. So we might not put out an announcement
when we break up, but we do call our best friend.
And that's the same thing. Really in the celebrity world,
the audience, their public is someone an extension of their
friendship group, a very powerful group who really afford them
(21:06):
the life they have. And so when when Jessica Simpson
broke up with Nick, I think before she told Nick,
she told me like Jessica called me and said this
is over, and we drafted a statement and then we
worked with Nick's people to massage it a little bit,
and then we put out a statement. And then I
think they enjoy to a certain extent all the noise
(21:27):
and drama that comes around that, but they also to
give them a chance to move on with their lives.
And so I think there's also a great relief too
when relationships are not good. It doesn't you don't have
to be famous for this, want you want it to
be done. There's a relief sometimes when it's over. And
so I found that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
There's still a story there, there's a story and you
know what, that's what That's what keeps everyone relevant. Even
if you're not a celebrity, you always have to have
a story going on. Think about it as you listen
to this podcast with our guest Rob Shooter, think about
where your story is right now. Friends, they're all talking
about you because of why you just broke up with someone,
or you just made this incredible dinner the other night,
(22:05):
and other friends were pissed off they weren't invited. Whatever.
We all have stories. So even in a break up announcement,
that's a story.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Everyone has a story.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
It keeps your name up there. What about other crisis work,
I mean, people get into legal problem.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, I did, he during all his legal stuff. Naomi
Campbell hired me after she allegedly hit someone. Yeah, and
so I you know, the best thing to do is
not to make it any worse for yourself. And this
is a good lesson for all of us. When I
mess up, and I do a lot, you want to
apologize quickly, You want to take responsibility, and then you
(22:46):
want to shut up. Ashley Simpson hired me after lip
syncing on SNL. That was a major thing, major because
her career was just exploding, and she went on Saturday
Night Live. It was her first live performance and it
did not go well, and so within a week she
hired me. And my best advice to her was, we
just put out a statement and then we move on.
(23:07):
We try and suck the oxygen out of the fire,
and we don't ever talk about it again. So you
will never hear Ashley say the S word. We don't
talk about Saturday Night Live, and we play role play too.
Is a really good publicist? Your role play? So I'll
ask you questions like Ashley, you know that's terrible, what
happened on SNL? How are you doing? And we would
(23:27):
practice what the answer was going to be, and often too,
the answer isn't words, It's just the noise. H ah
See how long you can be on the phone with
a friend and not speak.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I can go hours? Hmm what really?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And people are so uncomfortable with you would practice making noise,
grunting noises and if you don't want them to move on,
that's hilarious. I know what I charged the enormous about
a body that I'm so sorry everybody.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Okay, so you started in publicity and then you ended
up at Okay, magazine. Now, okay magazine always known for
being a great, colorful way to find out what's going
on with celebrities. But for some reason, when you arrived
there as the executive editor, things blew up there. What
did you do with that magazine that caused such a stir.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
When I arrived? It was not doing terribly well. It
was a enormous magazine in Britain. It still is. It's
like the People magazine of Britain. And then they launched
in America, assuming that their heritage, their name would just
attract an audience. He didn't you have to fight for
every sale here in America, And so they were very
celebrity friendly, which translated into dull. And so I changed
(24:46):
it from being celebrity friendly to naughty but nice. And
that's how I came up with a phrase that's really
changed my life. We're not mean girls, We're not gonna
we're not gonna punch you. We might pinch you, but
we're cheeky. And I think you can tell a story
in a cheeky way that you might not like two
or three of the words in it, but overall you'll
(25:07):
like it. And I've a beautiful picture of you your
look glorious. The headline will be fine, but there might
be a few little things in the story that you're like, oh,
but that's what makes it interesting for readers. So we
just change the tone of the magazine. And I would
argue that's the most important thing to learning life. The
keys in the lock, you've just got to turn it.
People throw out the baby with the bath water. Don't
(25:29):
do that. The magazine's doing okay. It's not a deact, literally,
it's okay, which is also a very weird name for
a magazine. I'm my magazine to be called amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
You don't want ever.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I'm okay, okay, And so you put a little bit
of fairy just on it. You make it a little
bit more exciting. You tell stories that people want to hear,
and ultimately, the stories that do the best are stories
that we care about in our own lives. Breakups, relationships, babies,
all those major milestones in your personal life are also
(26:00):
true with magazines. They really sell well. So we just
changed the emphasis a little bit. We became naughty but nice,
and initially some of the celebrities were horrified by this,
but they came around. They saw we were not going
to take Dick's well, just.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Go back to that. Then some celebrities were horrified. You
had already you already knew what it was like being
a publicist. Now you have publicists calling you at Okay
magazine saying, what the hell, why are you printing this
about my client? How did you work there?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Must have made it easy if Chesier, I could go
in and I knew from my own clients, like often
it wasn't the text they cared about. It was the
picture Jailo. For instance, you got to do a beautiful
picture of Jailo and she might not read the story,
but she would see the picture. And so we always
packaged even the most smelly stories in a beautiful rose
(26:48):
rose fragrance ribbon, and so everything looked pretty. It smelled pretty,
but if you read it, it also told the truth
in a nice way. I can find nice stories there
when anybody you can just change the way you tell
a story. When I tell stories of Britney spears, and
you know, there's some stuff there that isn't that pretty,
but you can tell it in a sympathetic way. And
(27:09):
so I always put things through the filter of optimism.
Lindsay lowhands somebody to where we're always like, we're always
rooting for her comeback, and so I don't take I
don't take the low road. And I think this is
a mistake certainly my friends make and I've made, is
that people think being mean makes them witty, makes them
oscar wild. It doesn't. It just makes you mean. If
(27:30):
you want to be Oscar wild, be interesting and nice.
That's really hard. It's really easy to be mean and witty.
It's so easy to get a laugh by being mean.
What's hard is to get a laugh by being nice.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
But you know what, being a publicist and also actually
rolling it into a career as an executive editor in
Okay magazine, that's a sales job.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Sales.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
And you know what, if someone said to me today, Elvis,
you've got to go out and sell, so I would
get nervous and I would crack my pants. But you're
actually selling. You're selling, you're selling talent, you're selling looks,
you're selling this being. You're creating a monster, a great, wonderful,
glorious monster, out of someone who's just a normal human being.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And it goes back to what politicians do. This is
what I was meant to do. I'm really good at
package and stuff. I'm not the greatest reporter, I'm not
the greatest writer, but I know how to package. And
that's what magazines do, that's what celebrities do, that's what
politicians do, that's what the greatest brands do. And that
led me to do my book. And the takeaway from
(28:36):
all those celebrities were that the most successful people I'd
ever met knew who they were, and the really super
successful ones knew who they were in just four words,
just four words?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
You was just did you masterfully changed the conversation to
about your book. I was moving in a lot. You're
a master at this. Okay, let's talk about your book.
The four word answer. I love it, and you make
it seem easy. It's not as easy as you think.
I believe in correct me if I'm wrong, Rob. Your
(29:06):
philosophy is you should be able to succinctly describe you
and your talent in fowards.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Look in the mirror every morning and who are you?
In four words? I'm naughty, I'm nice, I'm smart, I'm important?
Are you kind?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Are you cheeky? Who are you? In four words?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And every morning you remind yourself who am I, And
it's harder to lose.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Your way in life if you know who you are.
So talk about the journey through this book. It has
to be more than just that simple principle. Well, that's
the principle that holds the book together. And then what
I did is I took all the celebrities I worked with,
most of the celebrities I worked with, and I applied
it to them or I explain how they applied this
(29:43):
to their lives, and I came up with a word
for all these celebrities. I knew all four of their words,
and it's quite surprising, like one of the words for
Jennifer Lopez was kind. Now, a lot of people would
not assume Jennifer Lopez is kind, and I'm not making
the case that she is Florence night Gale. What I'm
saying is that her definition of kindness is something we
should all think about. Jennifer's kind to herself. She doesn't
(30:06):
call herself names, she doesn't beat herself up, She encourages herself.
And if we could all be kind to ourselves as
kind to ourselves as we would be to a best friend.
I say things to myself or I used to say
things to myself that I'd never say to a friend.
I'd never be that cruel to a friend, So why
the hell am I being that cruel to me? So
there's a whole chapter on kindness from Jessica Simpson. Jessica
(30:29):
was a really interesting one because Jessica taught me that
she's the smartest person in the world. She's as dumb
as a fox, you think, but she's got a billion
dollars to prove how smart she is. And what I
learned about smart is that the only thing that makes
she smart is the willingness to try. Jessica just kept trying.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
She kept getting beat up, knocked down publicly, and she
got back up. Remember this, Really smart people fail all
the time, but they keep on going. So there's a
whole chapter I'm being smart? Did? He taught me how
to feel like I was important? If you think you
are important, you will invest in yourself. You'll invest in
(31:08):
what you eat, if you work out, you'll invest in
your education. And so it's very, very important to feel important.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Where do you see this moving for you next? Or
is it too premature to know? Or are you not
like a one year, five year, ten year plan. Guy
I mean you said earlier that all these things went
into play to move you to the next level, to
a next layer. Where do you think your next layer
(31:39):
could lie?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Or you're right. I didn't have options when I was younger,
so I just had to fall into whatever job came along.
And I'm grateful for the jobs I fell into. But
now I have a lot of options. Now I'm very successful.
But I thought about this a couple of nights ago.
If I was playing a game show and I could
gamble my life today, who I am for the billion dollars,
the million dollars, what I do? And I'd hit pause.
(32:02):
I'm really happy with this. I love my piece of
the pie. I've had opportunities that potentially could have led
to much greater success. I don't know if I want it.
I'm not that driven. I like this life. I don't
want it, and I know really famous people. I don't
want people taking my photograph when I'm drunk in a bar.
(32:22):
I don't want people chasing me around. I'm famous enough
that I can get a dinner reservation and maybe a
free isert particulate Forresco pie Scotts but delicious, But I
don't I don't need any more than that. I like
this life. I would hit pause right.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Now, but Rob, you know that when you hit pause,
that's when the opportunity is just don't they flow your way?
And this is all a pl of.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yours, all a plot, but the nicest opportunity that came recently,
primarily through you too, so thank you was iHeart approached
me about doing a daily show. And so now every
morning I have a twenty minute gossip show celebrity show.
It's called Naughty but Nice and for twenty minutes, we
do all the stories you want to know about it.
Because I do this for a living. It's not one
of those podcasts where we just talk about stories on
(33:04):
the internet. We break stories. We have news out there,
we push stories forward. We know what's going on with
Megan Mark, and we know what's going on with Liza.
I've been in those rooms where crisis happens and what's
going on inside her camp, and we talk about that
and it's become terribly successful and it's a joy to do,
and so that's my big big push at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's fun. Well, Rob, this has been a wonderful time
we could spend together. I learned so much about you.
I thought I knew everything, but I didn't know. But
I will tell you this. I know you don't want
to be one of those people who has your picture
drunk in a bar. But guess what, I've got photos
of you drunk in a bar. But I'm drunk right
next to you, So that's right guilty together. So where
(33:45):
do you find Rob? You find them not a but
nice here on iHeart you also can pick up his
book The Four Word Answer. And where else are we finding? You?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And I have a website called Naughty Gossip Each dare.
There's about twenty of us. It's a really unusual business.
So I've basically given all my friends password to our
reporters or editors, and they just go on and post
their own stories. So where they see stuff out, they
post stuff and it's updated all the time, and it's
a great gig. I feel like a little mini sort
of company. It's amazing how responsible I've become sort of.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You've got lots of MutS going on, but don't be
too responsible, and I know you know that that would
be a big mistake, a mistake. I love you, Robshooter,
I love you.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Thank you for allowing everybody to be deliciously odd, deliciously unusual.
And remember you're not a misfit when you're around other misfits.
Find your tribe. They are out there. I used to
didn't believe that I would ever fit in, and I
found my people. I did find them.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
They do exist. Wasn't that fascinating? He is such a
tremendous friend and a talented and very well connected gossip columnist.
Many many years of Rob Shooter ahead. He's been our
friends for over ten years, and it's I'm looking forward
to another ten years with them. Some great takeaways on
how to embrace your unique identity. I love that part.
(35:05):
If you didn't hear it, go back and listen to it. Also,
Rob talked about how to stand out in a crowd.
We're so thankful for you stopping by. Rob, Thank you
so much for chatting with us on this episode. All right,
more to con We've got a lot of great guests
lined up. You're not going to want to miss them.
Make sure you like, rate and review, and subscribe to
Thinking out Loud wherever you get your podcast, especially right
here at the iHeartRadio app. Until next time, Peace out,
(35:29):
everybody Thinking out Loud is hosted by me Elvis Duran.
The podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive
producers are Andrew Paglsi and Katrina Norvel. Special thanks to
David Katz, Michael kind Heart, and Caitlin Madore. Thinking out
Loud is part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeartRadio.
For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and
(35:51):
if you like this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,
I'm Elvis Duran.
Thinking Out Loud With Elvis Duran News
Host
Elvis Duran
Show Links
ElvisDuran.comMore Elvis Duran PodcastsPopular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com