November 16, 2022 • 42 mins
Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today's episode, 23-Time Olympic Gold Medalist Michael Phelps joins Jay for powerful conversation on life. Michael addresses his mental health challenges including nearly taking his life, what he learned from it, and so much more. IT’S A MUST LISTEN!!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome into Unbreakable and mental health
podcast with Jay Glazer, and listen my guests here. I've
been friends with him for a long time, but I
(00:23):
don't have two many guests or one of one, and
I say one of one. He is the most successful
and most decorated Olympian in the history of the Olympics.
I mean twenty eight medals, still holds the all time
record for most gold medals. But he is my brother
in the gray and the blue. And you know what
I thought, and for people out here the first time here,
(00:44):
what I thought when I was going through my battles
with mental health, depression, anxiety, when I got to the
top of you all rainbows and unicorns, and that just
wasn't the case. So I said, you know what, I
want to turn to my brother here, the one and
only Michael Phelps, who again the only similarities between us
is that we battle the same thing, but we use
it to overcome, you know, what goes on between our years,
(01:06):
but also to do greater things. So, man, I'm so
honored to have the one on other Michael Phelps here,
how are you brother? Cheers cheers good? Yeah, just another day, right,
you know, as you were saying, it's it's another day
of us fighting or going through the battles that we
go through. And and yeah, you said it perfect right.
(01:26):
There are days that, yeah, we feel like we're on
top of the world. And there are days we feel
the worst we've ever felt. So the battle how do
we maneuver through those things? And and for me lately,
as you know, I've been struggling with the loss of
my father and and yeah, it's been ups and downs,
but you know, I've the one thing I've tried to
do is stay in my routine. You know. For me,
(01:48):
work out is something that makes me me. It's a
part of my self care. You know. I just got
out of old tub too, so I do that too,
you know. So there there are certain things that I
have to continue to do to make this as best
as it as it can be. So twin your ears,
so let me let me ask you this. And there's
so many ways you you're not to go. And first
of all, you don't just talked about your dada. It's cool.
(02:09):
The bond we have now that we're so hoping about
this because when your dad passed, You've reached out to me.
And I'm always trying trying to tell people, reach out
to your teammates, reach out to people that get your
don't get you. Everybody wants to help you. So I was, man,
I was so honored that you felt safe enough to
come and reach out to me that day. That was.
(02:29):
That was amazing, brother. And I'm thankful and and you know,
some of the words that that you shared with me
that day, I still go back to a lot and
and yeah, I've I've actually screenshot that message just you know,
just so I never forget, because um, you know, there
are there are a few moments that yeah, it just
you know, it helps you just process things. And and
(02:49):
you know, I think that was the coolest thing in life, Like, yeah,
there was. You know, we we've gone back and forth
and played phone tag here and there, and I was like, shit,
I don't know who you talked to. I don't know
who to reach out to, and and um, I just snapped.
I was like, Jay, I'm gonna text j And yeah,
I'm thankful you were there. And again, the the advice
and the wisdom you gave me and thankful for man.
(03:10):
I got goose bumps man just saying that it's cool
because it's we need a team and you need to
be of service, you know, so to be there for
your brother or anybody reaches out and we're going through this,
so I want to ask you this and that starts
being of service, just being there for anybody. But I
want to ask you, this is yours an everyday battle.
Like for me, it's hard for me to get out
(03:32):
of bed every single day of my life. And this
isn't a new thing. This has been around for a while.
Is it that way for you? There are months or
weeks where yeah, it's like that, all right, I guess
I call it seasonal depression. You know, there's a there's
a like a six week stretch from basically like second
third week in October through the middle of November. So
(03:55):
I'm I'm in it. Um. I've had some really large
things happened to me in my life, broken bones, kind
of a bunch of different things. So yeah, so, um,
I just know this is a moment where I need
to make sure I'm aware and keeping in touch with
everything that's going on. You know, if my body is
(04:16):
telling me a certain thing, listen to it, don't stuff
it down. When did you realize you were listen? I
like to say different because I would say different good,
like the fun I'm different? Yeah, sure, When did you
realize you were different? I mean, like I'm thinking like
career wise, like I'm going back to eleven when my
coach said that you could make the Olympic team in
four years, and I was like, I don't know if
(04:37):
him that's just him talking shit, or you know, if
him actually believe in it. Right. So but as a
kid at that point, I was like, yeah, cool, I'm
all in, let's go and and sure make the Olympics, right,
and then sure enough four years later, bang it happens,
you know what I'm talking about. So it's like I
was like, all right, maybe this guy is not crazy
or maybe yeah I am different. But also at the
(04:59):
same time, like I felt that I was normal, you know,
because I was doing something that I loved. Bro, You're
not right. I know that I was thinking, well, make
sure that I was thinking about it today a little
bit like um, like I was thinking like trying to
win eight gold medals, like I was trying to do
something that no one had ever done before. Right, there
(05:21):
was no blueprint, right, like if I want to try
to change the time on my phone or like the
text on my phone, Like, if I don't know how
to do it, I can look that up. There's no
there's no book that says here, this is how you
win eight gold medals. Right. I had to fight, like
basically figure it out trial and air. And I think
that was that's make me that, Like that makes me
(05:42):
who I am. The process of things makes me makes
me who I am. All right, So now when did
you realize you were different mental health wise? When did
you first realize you suffered from the gray that I
accepted from it? Yeah, I probably accepted from it in
like two dozen fourteen, Um, but why did you When
did you know it was? Yeah? That was a few times,
(06:06):
a few instances through my mental health journey, right Like
that was a few pretty big public depression spells that
I had gone through, And I was like, oh, ship,
maybe I need to try to figure this thing out.
Maybe I need to try to not tame it but
learn it right, figure out why I am how I
am right, because it's like it's not gonna change, you know,
Like like you said, right, like you wake up every
(06:27):
day and it's a struggle, you know, like ship like
for me, like my depression, I can't snap my fingers
and have it just go away. I can't just snap
my fingers and have my anxiety go away, right, So
it's like, how do I maintain it? You know? How
do I just be me and be okay with being
who I am? You But you came out early, yeah,
earlier than most to talk about it. That's pretty courageous.
(06:51):
I just didn't care, honestly, Like to the no, I
was just like kind of just sick and tired of
feeling how I was. Yeah, I was still able to
go and swim in train. But I think I used
that anger and that frustration in the pool um, you know,
like I kind of think I helped, like that helped
me become who I was, but maybe not in a
healthy way. But then like in the outside world, I
(07:13):
didn't know how to deal with it. So I think
in fourteen, like that's where I was, just after my
second d U I was like, Okay, I gotta figure
something out, Like what's going on? Why am I acting out?
You know? Why? Am I screaming for help? And in reality,
that's what it was, right. I didn't know how to
ask for help. So at that point I was just like, yeah,
like it is what it is, this is who I am,
and here you go. But like thinking back to that interview,
(07:35):
and it's still crazy because it was Tim Layden who
did the piece and I don't know the question that
he asked me that made me just blah uh and
open up. Um. We were sitting there and doing like
the cover story for the Olympics going into you know,
the two thousand sixteen games, and I just opened up.
And and ever since that point forward, I was just like, yeah,
(07:56):
here you go, you know. Yeah, like today I feel
like a piece of ship today. I want to be
six ft underground. Today. I don't want to do anything today.
I don't want anybody to talk to me. Right, I'm
just in one of those moods and know like sometimes
a hug won't help, you know, sometimes it's me just
taking time by myself, taking that piece and quiet. Right,
So it just depends, you know, Like it's that cycle.
(08:18):
Like I always I used the term riding the roller coaster,
Like if I send the roller coaster in Melogi. I'm
just all over the I'm going to figure you out
to when when they come in. But but you just
said it too, and people don't understand the code. Man,
I get this all the time. How could you want
to be six ft under I mean, look at you,
You're a TV Hall of Fame, You're you've done this
(08:39):
and bawlers and fighting in football and NFL on Fox.
I'm like, yeah, but you know, like my life is great,
but between my ears sucks, right, and people don't understand.
But people are gonna look at you, go, Michael Felt,
how could you want to feel six ft underground? So what?
Let do you know what led to your pain? Um?
I think I'm learning more about it. I think for me,
(09:01):
like there's a lot of compartmentalization from you know, decades, um,
a lot of it. And and to be honest, was
you know, not having a dad, you know, like my
parents divorced very young and and and it's not not
having a dad. My dad's dad also passed when he
was very young, so he didn't have dad, right, so
he didn't really understand how to fully be there and
(09:22):
support a child and be there when he needs to
write and look I can't blame him, but you know,
like for me, like I used that as motivation now
every day for my kids. Right, So just trying to
change that cycle, you know. And and I think part
of it is is obviously it's learning, it's going through
the process. And and for me, I think in two
thousand and fourteen, I was able to have a really
(09:42):
good conversation where I got a lot of stuff off
my chest and we were able to talk a lot
and and and just uncover a lot of the stuff
that we probably were both holding onto for decades. So
I think that was really cool and really special. But
I think it's like now, it's probably it's just learning
how I was raised and understanding it and processing it.
And but it's also not pointing blame too, you know,
(10:04):
like we were raised how we were raised, and it
is what it is. You know, our parents did the
best that they could. You know, if we want changed,
then we have to change. And and I'd like to
see change in in a mental health front. And so
for me, I look at it in a different way
than my parents ever did, and they probably ever could process.
It's funny. I I had dinner my my folks, I
don't see them a lot. My mother tells me earlier
(10:26):
this year, Oh you know I've suffered from anxiety left,
and so did your grandma. I'm like, how about a
heads up here? Like the first time here? It's two right,
thanks a lot now, I mean God, because for me,
it's it's always I don't know any way to not
feel this way, like my entire life as a little kid,
my earliest childhood memory, I've brought upstairs chicken and screaming
(10:49):
and crying and usually punished. And man, I just felt like,
like you said, like the universe, the universe hates me,
Like the world's gonna come crashing down around me. And
that pain for people who who don't suffer from it,
it fucking sucks. It's a it's for me, it's a
victual physical reaction. When you get your tax, do you
(11:09):
feel it physically? Also? At times I think it's just
where my head is, like where mine's kind of specific.
I get on the left side of my gut, behind
my rib cage like having a heart attack, and my joints. No,
there are times I think like it's more of just
like I want to crawl in a ball, like I
just want to just like I don't know if it's
(11:30):
like physical pain, Like I think there were times where
like I like there was once where I was in
such a dark phase and like I haven't talked about
this much, but I actually took like a golf cleat
and hit myself in the head. Like I was so
piste off and this is like this is probably like
six seven years ago. And as soon as I did that,
I was like, Okay, I need to figure something out, right,
(11:52):
like my life has gotten to this point. And it
wasn't like a pleat cleat, Like it wasn't like metal cleats,
but like you know, it didn't feel good. But also yeah,
but like looking back at it now, like I can laugh,
I can laugh about it because like you know, like
I think it's the um but I think like and
(12:13):
and the biggest thing and and you know, going back
to like my parents, like I don't here you go
all the horses that were a great dame um, like
going back to my parents, Like it's the acceptance, right,
Like I love my parents to death, I always will,
but it's the acceptance of these things, these moments, these pains,
these traumas, right, Like you know, like if I like
(12:33):
I don't want to sit and stuff stuff stuff because
I'm not going to be able to grow and learn
from those experiences and then try to teach my kids
how to deal with those things. Right, So I think
that that is the hardest part for me. And I think, like,
you know, thinking back like that golf cleet um, Like
I can think back to certain times like that, and
I can always know kind of the pain that I
(12:56):
was going through, but I can also look at the transformation, right,
you know. I think for me, like I can go
back to what I was feeling when I was at
the meadows where yeah, almost every day I didn't want
to be alive and I hated myself and I couldn't
look at myself in the mirror because I saw a
swimmer and that was it. You know. Now I got
to the point where I'm at the point now where yeah,
I can see this kid with a man bun and
(13:17):
you know, like whatever, Like I can see this, I
can see me for who I am. I can see
myself for a human being. And I think that is
something that you know, because of the growth, because of
the acceptance, because of the things that I've gone through,
Like that's why I am how I am, and like
I love it this way right, Like you know, like
I think back to, you know, points where I was
afraid to even open up and talk about it. You know,
(13:39):
I think that was the craziest thing because now to
the point I'm like whoa, Like, yeah, I'm having a
bad day and like, honey, yep, one of those days
like just giving your heads up, like it could be
a little cuckoo to day, like could be off. You know,
you you just reveal that I've never revealed this, but
when I have those self loathing moments, I punched myself
in head that I've done that, and it's like, man,
(14:04):
you're just so self loathing and that's so I appreciate
you sharing that with me. And then figure out I
gotta share that with you, and I still do it.
And I'm like because I also go, you know what,
I know, I can do a lot of damage with
these hands. There's I'd rather do it to me than
somebody else. And they also look like I deserve it
half time, and we don't deserve We fucking don't deserve it.
(14:24):
It sucks that we go that down that path. Yeah,
like I'll ask like in those times like what have
you found as outlets that help you? Right? Like besides,
have you tried anything else? You know? Like for me,
like I always go to working out, you know, like
you have to get in there, like you know, like
you've hit me mouth all times and like yeah, Jim,
like I hit you right after I'm done. But like,
like what are like what are other things? You know?
(14:44):
Like it's me visit meditation, is it? Right? You know?
I started? So I went to Thailand this offseason for
thirty five days. I told you about that, right, and hey,
they made me really and I sent you some of
these notes. They made me really heal that little kid
in me, right, that that little you know, holding little
Jason's right. But so now every day before I ever
(15:06):
look at my phone and now get up, I do
breathwork for for ten minutes, right, I meditate for five
of the things that I'm grateful for. Then I write
down ten things I'm grateful for from the previous day
that made me happy. And it's hard sometimes for a
lot of them, but you know what, I'll make it.
It could be something materialistic, it could be just something
somebody said. It could be a memory I had, whatever
(15:28):
it is, so I do all that and then I'll
get a ten minute work at in before I ever
look at my phone, and that usually gets me. It
will calm me down. It's a better way for me
to start today than to start today thinking that the
universe is ending and the universe hates me and my
sky is phone. So do you look back at those
things right down all the time. So originally it was
(15:49):
a hundred. They told me to do a hundred grant right,
a grand afew list of a hundred things I'm grateful
for from my whole life. And brother, you think would
be so easy for somebody like me or somebody like you,
Holy funk? Was that hard? You know, because you don't
feel like you deserve any of it, so you don't
want to write it down because you're almost like you're
jinxing yourself or you feel shittier about yourself. But oh,
(16:11):
now you're just bragging, like funk. It's terrible. But then
once I did, it was like God in the universe. Oh,
my son says he loves me. And my son said
this to me one time when my dog gives me kisses.
And when I first adopted my dog, I got the
postal rescue pit and like her first day and you know,
buying houses and being on Fox NFL Sunday and my
whole Fox NFL Sunday crew and walking fighters down to
(16:33):
a cage for championship fights and fuck, there's a million.
It could be a parent shoes whatever it was if
I got a hundred. So I was reading that whole
hundred list every single morning, and now I've expanded it
where every day I write an extra ten and then
I usually still go back to that that hundred when
I'm down. When it when it's when the roommates in
my head are not playing nicely together, I'll go back
(16:54):
to that original hundred and read that. Yeah, that's like
the one thing for me. Like I like whenever I
have like I can out the feedback loop from hell,
like and that like up here just keeps going and
going and spinning and spinning and spinning, and like I
get to that point where like I feel like I'm
gonna blow. It's like how do I get myself out
of that moment? Right? So I always have like a
hunt like not a hundred, but it's like I have
(17:15):
like ten different journals or like little notepads sitting here,
and some of them are the bad days, some of
them are good days, some of them do list like
all this stuff. I am in that moment where I'm spinning.
I try to go back and I look or I
just get it all out, right, because like during those
good days, like you have so many good thoughts, you
feel like you're on top of the world, nothing can
(17:35):
get in your way. But then it's like like for me,
I can I can turn like that and if I turn,
this goes on. So then it's like, Okay, how do
I get back to that living in the neutral, living
in the moment? And it's like I go back to
all the notes that I have and just the memories,
right because and I feel like it's the same thing
you're doing by that, but like by what you just said,
(17:57):
it's like those thoughts and memories are there. Probably for me,
it's like little things that trigger something. It's like, how
do I control that? And the only way I can
control it is either getting it out or like for me,
is looking at something from the past because I want
to calm myself down, right, So I asked just because
in like those moments where you know, like where we
are hitting ourselves like, how can we stop that? You know,
(18:18):
like you know, like my wife says to me, it's
just like all the times, like you can't do that.
I'm like, I know, I can't do like I know
do that, Like I want to be able to stop that,
but you know, like for me, it's how do I
get to that point where I do stop it and
I can control it and I can't help myself. Isn't
it cool that we could talk about these things that
was so openly. No, that's I'm proud of you talking
(18:40):
about it. I'm learning to be proud of me talking
about it. And again I'm still a work in progress
that we can change this world. You know. I had
this thing the other day. It must have been people
or something, and the guy was moderating with He's like,
hold your phone up in the air if you know
somebody or you're going through some kind of mental health struggle.
(19:01):
Seventy percent of the room had the phone stup and
they said, now keep your phone in the air if
you've gone through suicidal ideation. Seventy people at their hand
up there. I was floored because I think, well, I
think for a number of reasons. I think number one
because I was so happy that people were honest and open,
(19:24):
right because what we just talked about, right, Like, yeah,
it's hard as hell to open up and talk about it,
but once you do open up, like that, awareness is
so powerful. So like for me, I was just I
was happy inside because at the chance, like we have
an opportunity to potentially save a life, right, you don't
have to suffer in silence, and and and number two,
(19:45):
I was like, oh my god, the world has changed, right, like,
you know, like people are okay, not being okay, you
know five years ago, like we never would have thought
or nobody would have lifted that mat up underneath their
up up from the problems that were. We're hiding underneath
of them and talking about them. So it's like all
of these things. I feel like it's just so powerful.
And yeah, we're making great progress, but there's so much
(20:08):
more because it's too reactive. We're not proactive enough. Like
people need to do what you and I are doing
for our mental health before the scot's fault. Like even
if they don't think they have an issue, they need
to start doing this, or just when times are good,
get a routine look mental health. They'll go to therapist
after it's too late, or you don't always try, you
(20:29):
don't only swim when your time is off, you're doing
all the fun time all the time, or or I
love it that they're like, uh no, we can't get
a therapy appointment for six weeks, and like six weeks
comes up and like, oh no, I don't need to
go anymore. I'm fine. Actually you're not. You're you're not fine.
My one thing for fine it's freaked out, insecure, neurotic
and emotional and you can only be fine on mondays.
(20:51):
I like that. Holy sh it, I like that a lot.
Who used to say that, My my coach and my
mom and I used to always say that back in
the day. You just said something also like man, I
can't get a therapy pointment for six weeks. That is
a problem, a huge problem. But what we can't do
is what you did recently is like are you struggling?
You reached out to me, like there are we could
be each other's therapists and leaning on each other, and
(21:12):
it gets us like, I don't know, I don't know
about you bad, But every time I've opened up to
somebody and my friends are the baddest motherfucker's in the black,
you know what. They are the most macho people of
all time. It has just gotten us closer together. Nobody
has called me a woos nobody's told me to suck
it up, nobody said, oh stop, jay man, your life
is too great. But it's just gotten us closer together. Like,
(21:34):
there there are a few people that, honestly, like I've
always respected, but I never thought I'd be as close
as I am because of that, right, Like, like, there
are a few random people in my life that I've
become friends with who just send a random text and
I looked out. I'm like, oh, what's up, dude? You know,
like I always put a smile on my face. You're like,
(21:54):
you know, always like I feel safe and comfortable with.
So I feel like that's something that's so special. Yes,
building that brotherhood, building that trust, that bond. It's hard
to put in the words, but it's cool. Here's another
thing I do, by the way, I forgot when I
am struggling, um, I will do what you did. I'll
reach out to four my my boys and say I'm
struggling today, I need some help. But the same day
(22:17):
I'll reach out to four other people and just check
up on them. Yeah, just like you were saying, like, oh,
random text, because that's me being of service to somebody else.
And that also helped me cut through the gray. I
don't want to forget that. And I feel like that's
that's so true because it's like what you do you
get back ten times, right, you know, like and that
right then, like you you reaching out, like you're opening up,
(22:40):
like you're becoming vulnerable, like being a friend to somebody
else that potentially is going to the same thing, you know.
So I feel like that's that's so that's awesome. A
couple of weeks ago ahead on Andrew Wentworth, the captain
of the Rams, right, you know, looks like me except
eight feet taller, so extremely sexy. But man, I'm with
him in the car after they in the Super Bowl,
(23:00):
and he opened up about this on this podcast and
he was in the fucking tank. He just it's the
greatest moment of his career. He wins it all. He's
the oldest person to ever started tackle in the history
of the NFL, much less than to be a captain
in the Super Bowl game. And he's in the front
seat of the car with his head in his hands
and he is in the tank and I am trying
(23:24):
to boost him up, saying, dude, He's like, I just
I don't deserve it. I'm not worthy of this. When
you win your gold medals, are you able to celebrate yourself?
I just heard you already grown. Are you able to
celebrate yourself or do you go through something similar? It's
hard because, like you know, I think once I win one,
I had to be able to like in one ear
(23:46):
out the other, right, because there was six or seven
more that I was trying to swim or win that week. Um,
at the end of the week, it's hard to sit
still because I'm on a whirlwind tour, right like that
first like week, two weeks, you're jumping all over the
place doing different shows. But I think after that it's
kind of like, what's next? Who am I? What's my identity?
(24:07):
And I think that's the scary part, right because I
think you you work so hard for you know, for
me anyway, I feel like I worked so hard to
get to that point and at the snap of your fingers,
it's gone, it's done, it's finished, it's not gone. You
did it. Yeah, But the problem, that's the problems we have, right, Yeah,
I guess, like but I I I never I never
(24:29):
sat and celebrated like I. I never. I guess I
never could. I remember, I'll never forget. You know, when
I won my first one back in two thousand and four,
the very first day of the Olympics, So four and
I am. I went four oh eight and I win
and I, you know, have the medal, share it with
my mom through a chain link fence and she's like, oh, yeah,
that's so awesome. I'm like, yeah, we did it. And
(24:50):
my coach is like, hey, we got a warm down. Time,
we got another race tomorrow. I'm like, oh great, like cool,
like shoving my bag all right, cool, time time to
go to the next one. Like That's basically what it
was my career. I would say I've gotten through two
thousand and eight. I've been able to process everything to
that point. Two thousand and twelve for me, is one
(25:11):
of the most challenging Olympics of my life because I
wasn't happy with the results, but again, I got the
results that I deserved. So it's it's hard for me
to watch those races because I literally was off by that.
But then again, if I don't do that, then I
don't come back for sixteen. So it's just trying to
(25:34):
process all of that stuff. But yeah, it's it's I've
never been able to celebrate, but like to this day,
have you been? Have you since been? I want to
sit back and go, oh man, what do you mean? No, dude,
you need to. You need to. You deserve to more
than anything. You deserve to. You put that work in,
you spilt that sweat, you deserve to. That's something you
(25:57):
gotta work on. Is being able to love yourself up.
Something that again exactly the same thing I was talking
about with when like we deserve to love ourselves up,
we do something that is great saying yeah, like I'm
not saying I'm not proud, I'm not happy at the accomplishments,
but I mean I feel like like also, like I'm
somebody who is so detail oriented, so it's hard for
me to sit and try to really process every single
(26:19):
moment in memory like I want to. Um, I'm in
the process of just finishing a book. I just got
the seconded it's not asshole and uh, I just been.
I just got the second manuscript. We ripped up the
first one and went back and kind of reprogrammed everything
into the right spot. So I'm finishing that and hopefully
(26:42):
that's out soon. Oh you're finishing your own book. I
thought you read the book. That's how I was like,
you asshole, not read my book? Yeah? No, no, yeah
for you super pumped about it, And I think that's
something that that will help me process some of it too, right,
being able to read it and see it all on paper.
I think living it through the pandemic UM was challenging emotionally,
(27:03):
but I think it was also really cool because I
was able to learn and grow through those emotions that
I went through. Right, So I want to get back
to this. You get a gold medal, Ye, we see
you really really happy out there going nuts, but you're
not that happy on the inside. Is that I can't
be because I have to be able to control the
emotions UM and every really everything my physical, mental, everything
(27:29):
well being through those next few days. Because I can't.
I don't well I don't want to say I can't,
but I shouldn't really kind of pour too many emotions
into one event because then I'm draining myself for the
whole entire week. So when when I won eight gold
medals in two thousand and eight. That process started back
in two thousand and two when I was trying to
(27:49):
learn how to adapt to swimming that many races and
clear my lactic acid and swim down and eat enough
and sleep enough, and do all in stretch enough and
make sure I'm doing all the small details. So after
I win a gold medal, what I would do is
typically I get off of the award stand um. It
(28:10):
depends if I had another race or not, if I
was done for the night. I mean typically just get
probably get back in and clear my lactic acid. So
we we prick our ear, take a blood sample. My
lactic acid to be below anything below three point oh,
and I'm good. So I would just swim at my
heart I keep my heart rate about one twenty, and
I would just swim comfortably up and down, up and down,
(28:32):
up and down until my lactic acid cleared. Once it
was cleared, I'd hop out of the pool. I'd hop
on the massage table and get a massage. Once I'm
done the massage, I get a dinner that they have
free made. Typically it's like pasta, you know, some kind
of car a little bit of protein. I jump into
a cold bath. I'm eating while I'm in the cold bath.
I get on the I get out of the cold tub,
(28:54):
put all my clothes on, get on the bus, still eating.
If I'm still hungry, going to the dining hall and
get food. By that point I need to get into
bed because I swim the next morning. Okay, but all
those emotions the day after you win eight fucking gold medals,
are you able to sit and go, oh my god,
I did this. Yeah, but I still had to come
(29:15):
on and do all the interviews with y'all. I'm in football,
let's say you. But were you able to? Was there? So? Still?
There's never a moment even wore you're doing the interviews
where you're able to I mean I and love yourself
up for it, I mean love yourself up really Okay,
since then, since your career has ended, we ran out too.
In Vegas. Was with Sean McVeigh, right, and McVeigh was like, dude,
(29:37):
you're one of one. I'm like, yes, he's one of one.
Are you able to appreciate that love that conversation? Yeah?
I mean and and and honestly, you know, and yeah,
until somebody breaks my records, Yeah, I guess I'm one
of one. Uh you know, you know there's no guessing here.
You're one of one, dude. I guess the one thing
(29:59):
that is crazy, Like thinking about it now, I've only
looked at the medals all at once less than a
handful of times. I guess the easiest way of saying is,
I don't want them to define who I am as
a human, right, Like that's a chapter of who I
am and what i'm you know, what I feel like
I am doing or what I'm supposed to do, right
(30:21):
Like for me, like that gave me the platform to
be able to have what I have today, right, you know,
to be able to stand up and and to allow
let's just scream about mental health. Look, yes, is it? Was?
It amazing what I did? Of course, Like I'm literally
looking at a finish right now above my desk where
I want to raise by a hundredth of a second,
hundredth of a second, you know what I'm saying, Like yeah,
(30:42):
without question, Like there have been a few times and
like ship like that was awesome, like spots, you know,
like I had some great, great memories, some amazing things,
but I think as a whole no, like when like
when somebody reads a bio and they're like twenty three
time Gold medalists, eight times Olympic medalists, thirty nine time
world record holder. I'm like, what, Like, is this a dream?
(31:03):
Like I feel like it is a dream, because like
this is what I dreamt of as a kid. I
wanted to do something that no one else has ever done.
And I'm living a fucking dream come true. You know
what I'm saying. Like that's the reality of it. So yeah,
like there are some things that really hard to process
and and yeah there are some things that I look
and I'm like, wow, like this is incredible for me.
(31:23):
Now it's the mental health. That story I shared about
the cell phones. That story, for me, I will never forget,
and I'll never forget how I felt, you know, I'll
never forget sitting next to a guy on an airplane.
This guy is probably like mid sixties, white hair dude,
and he was like, so you're telling me you just
talk about mental health and you think that's gonna help,
(31:45):
and you think, he goes, that's a sign of weakness.
And I was like and I literally was like I
was like alright. I was like okay, Like we're on
an airplane, I like, take headphones out. I'm like, all right,
now we're getting serious. Like I wanted to go tyson
on him, like him, how's it called? Michael Phelps's Oh.
I almost went nuts and I was like, dude, I
(32:07):
was like, okay. So I basically listed like ten different things.
I was like, do you or you're a family struggle
from PTSD, you know, depression anxiety at little He goes no,
and I go and how on the do you have
any right saying exactly what you just said to me?
And he goes, I've struck a nerve And I said, yes,
you have. I said, you've triggered something, sir, And I said,
(32:29):
I'm gonna finish this conversation right now. Because I didn't know,
honestly at that moment, like I was so raged, I
was so angered inside. I didn't know what to do,
And the only thing I could do is I knew
I had to be as polite as I possibly could
to shut the conversation down and get out. But it's
like stuff like that, that's the thing that makes me
happy with the fights that I'm doing every single day,
(32:51):
whether it's for me, whether it's for you, whether it's
for somebody else, right, because we're saving a life. I
want you to go back a second here, because could
have both. I want you to to go back and say
maybe the okay, you don't want to say the gold
medals to find you okay, but maybe you look at
the gold medals and go the work that I I put
in for those that defind me. That's who the funk
(33:13):
I am? For sure? Yeah, you out worked the world.
You didn't just don't work. You outwork the world. There's
a question. There's a question somebody gave me once and
a reporter, European reporter goes, do you ever feel bad
for winning all those medals? And I started laughing my
ass off, that's like, excuse me? And he goes, do
(33:34):
you feel bad for the other people? And I go, no,
I go they could have worked hard too, That's exactly right. Bad. No.
The question is that like I did? I like I
earned those things right, right? And there was a so
that that could lift you up? Yes? Sure, like like
I look back and and I'll look and say I
went six straight years without missing a single day. Did
(33:54):
any other person ever do that? No? So I gave
myself a better chance to have greater success with the
things that I did that nobody else, nobody else were
willing to do. So No, I don't feel bad for
winning all those medals. Maybe you could like look at
the medals more though, and then think of that. Right, Hey,
I'm proud of myself because I put in more work
(34:16):
than anybody else, not by a little, but by a lot.
And not only that, Michael, you put in the work
when nobody else was watching. That's what true greatness is,
right that under arm a commercial I did. I guess
back in sixteen. It's what it's what you do behind
the scenes, in the dark that brings you to the light. Right,
It's the things that you do when when you don't
(34:38):
want to do them right That that that brings you
into being who you are, right that, that's what the
greats do. Like, that's the difference between being great and
being good. Great you have to do things that people
aren't willing to do, right, Like, that's the separation. I
asked all my guests or last question, give me your
unbreakable moment, Give me that moment that should have broken
(34:58):
you could have, o can you? And you didn't, and
you came through the other side of that tunnel. Uh.
It's probably the moment of of not wanting to be alive,
you know. I think I was at a dark spot
in my life where at that moment I was I
was prescribed ambient from three different doctors monthly. I was happy.
I only had three pills left. It was a night
(35:21):
of my d y, my second one fourteen, and I
got home and I just remember I was like, funk,
I'm just gonna take the rest of these and I
hope I don't wake up. I mean, like I knew
I was gonna wake up, Like I was taking fifteen
milligrams almost every night, Like I knew I was gonna
wake up. And I was like, I hope this ends it.
And I woke up and for three days I basically
(35:44):
didn't leave my room. I didn't eat, I didn't drink anything.
I just sat there. I was just being And at
that very moment, I was just like, fuck this, I
gotta change. How can I change? And I literally called
two people and I said, find me some kind of help.
Where can I go? Because I honestly like it was
(36:07):
kind of like the moment where I was like, I
can't live life like this. I have to change something.
Has to change, what has to change. So I was like,
I'm gonna check myself into treatment center and figure things out. Right,
unplug all those wires, decompressed fit like, uncover all the
ship that I was going through, why I was going
through it, and kind of reprocessed how I how I live,
(36:29):
and uncover why I am why I am. Look like
when I went to the Meadows, I spent a week
in this thing called Survivors, where it was basically taking
everything that was ever hurting me inside and just unloading it,
talking about the most painful things I must I must
have gone through. I'm looking for cleanexes. I must have
(36:50):
gone through a box of fucking cleanexes every single session,
every session, And right then and there, I was like, okay,
nothing if I was like I am unbreakable. It's like
this stuff literally should have broken me throughout my whole
entire career, right, you know, the ship that I dealt
with and I lived with and you know made me
struggle throughout my whole entire career made me who I am.
(37:10):
And that's what you said to me the other day
in the text. You know you said something along those lines.
You know it made me who I am today, right,
and at that very moment, like, yeah, I could have
I could have been snapped in half, but that's not
who I am and I wasn't gonna let that happen, right,
And that's why I'm sitting here today talking to you
on this podcast. Right. You know, like ship, we all
(37:31):
go through ups and downs, we all we all go
through times that we think are unfathomable, shouldn't happen, darkest
moments you could ever possibly process. Like I always think
like everything happens for a reason, and those moments are
putting our life for that challenge. And yeah, are they
(37:52):
fucked up at times? Sure, of course they are, some
of them. Like I can look back at some of
them now and you know, flick off and and you know,
shake my head, laugh, But you know, those are the
moments that give me the opportunity to be who I
am today. And I think that's the proudest thing that
I can ever look at. That man, you know, it's
like like we got we gotta think about the ship
(38:12):
that we've gone through and the hearts that have gone through,
and we always have to remember that, right, Like you
said it best like that that inner child man that
is so good. I love that you said that, because
not many people have really like dove into that, and
that's something that I I can still go back to
that painting that I drew when I was at the
meadows of my inner child, and and exactly where he's
standing and what he's doing, and and you know what
(38:34):
kind of person he is, and and the attention that
he adores and he seeks. So yeah, I could go
into deeper conversations with that whenever you want. Brother, I
appreciate you. First of all, I'm glad do you only
have three ambient left? Next number one? Because now I
get a battle buddy for the rest of my life
and you and I get to keep walking this walk together.
I'm proud to call you brother, proud to call your
(38:56):
friend man. I'm crowd proud to walk this walk with you. Dude.
If if I was sitting there in your house, I
give you a big gas hug. Man, I will next
time I see you. You got my brother again, Michael Phelps,
one of one. Thank you for joining us here. And
I'm Breakable. If you haven't read the book yet, there's
a book out Unbreakable, How I turned my depression anxiety
and a motivation you can't too. And that's what Michael
(39:17):
and I are doing again. Make sure you like and
review this as well. And Michael Phelps, Brother, I love
you and appreciate you. I'm gonna leave you a one
more thing. This is something I did when I was
in treatment, and it's kind of weird to think about,
but you know, we we have so much talk that
goes into our head every single day. So you know,
I called I called the roommates in my head to
(39:37):
the roommates in our heads. So we have so many
roommates in our heads, so we can control with those roommates. Think.
So the thing that I did it at the Meadows
was every single doorway I would walk into, whether it's
a bathroom, whether it's a bathroom stall, whatever doorway you're
walking in and you're walking out, you say an affirmation
about yourself and one that you believe. And I guarant
guaran guarantee you you do that for a month. Have
(40:00):
a list of ten affirmations you just have to top
your head. Holy sh it, just watch, but positive affirmations,
positive affirmations, something nice about myself, like for me, like
I I never thought like I deserved love, and that
was right there with you always struggled with and I
would always say I can handle love. I deserve love
and walk through and I'm like, oh ship cool, like
(40:22):
like you just better, like you feel happier. So I
feel like you know, like I feel like it's like
I'm always searching for little small ways or a little
small things that you can implement into your life that
don't take too much brain power, right, that don't take
too much space, right, Like, little small habits whatever it is,
right that you can just throw in there every single
(40:43):
day to give yourself a fighting chance, right, Like we're
all just looking for a chance to get through each
day to go to one more So how can you fight?
And how can you fight in a positive way? You
know what? I want to begin this to day. I
love it. I'm starting it today. I'm starting there today.
And that's where I tell people all the time, you
could change your life now if the wait it takes
(41:03):
the tracks ever a second, change your life now. I
will start it to day. And that's what's great about
these like I And you know I hit you up
a couple of weeks ago about being your own hero, right,
start being your own here start viewing yourself as your
own hero. We can make a choice to start loving
ourselves up or make a change about our mental health
or anything in our in our lives instantaneously. So I
promise you, I'll give you my word right now, I
(41:25):
will start doing this to day. And now you bring
me to another point and m choice. We also have
control what's in our control every single day? Right, there's
so much ship and so much stuff, our choices in
our control. Yeah, that's that's like, that's something for me, like,
like I like I have. I have two tattoos, and
(41:46):
the word control is something I'm I want somewhere on
my body. So I look at every single day because
that's something it's like for me. Like I can control
my emotions. I can talk about my emotions, I can
talk about my feelings. I can write down those things. Right.
I can control if I'm thirsty. I can control if
I need to go to the bathroom. I go to
the bathroom. Right, those are things that in my control.
(42:07):
So when I talk about simplifying things in the most
purest form, most simplest way, right, it's control. What can
you control every day? Another one another trick, Let's keep
doing it. Let's keep along. Hey, brother, I don't know
if we're gonna save the world, we're damn sure gonna
improve it together, one person at a time. YEP. I
love you, my dude, Michael Fels, Thanks dude,
This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast
helping you out of the gray and into the blue.
Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome into Unbreakable and mental health
podcast with Jay Glazer, and listen my guests here. I've
been friends with him for a long time, but I
(00:23):
don't have two many guests or one of one, and
I say one of one. He is the most successful
and most decorated Olympian in the history of the Olympics.
I mean twenty eight medals, still holds the all time
record for most gold medals. But he is my brother
in the gray and the blue. And you know what
I thought, and for people out here the first time here,
(00:44):
what I thought when I was going through my battles
with mental health, depression, anxiety, when I got to the
top of you all rainbows and unicorns, and that just
wasn't the case. So I said, you know what, I
want to turn to my brother here, the one and
only Michael Phelps, who again the only similarities between us
is that we battle the same thing, but we use
it to overcome, you know, what goes on between our years,
(01:06):
but also to do greater things. So, man, I'm so
honored to have the one on other Michael Phelps here,
how are you brother? Cheers cheers good? Yeah, just another day, right,
you know, as you were saying, it's it's another day
of us fighting or going through the battles that we
go through. And and yeah, you said it perfect right.
(01:26):
There are days that, yeah, we feel like we're on
top of the world. And there are days we feel
the worst we've ever felt. So the battle how do
we maneuver through those things? And and for me lately,
as you know, I've been struggling with the loss of
my father and and yeah, it's been ups and downs,
but you know, I've the one thing I've tried to
do is stay in my routine. You know. For me,
(01:48):
work out is something that makes me me. It's a
part of my self care. You know. I just got
out of old tub too, so I do that too,
you know. So there there are certain things that I
have to continue to do to make this as best
as it as it can be. So twin your ears,
so let me let me ask you this. And there's
so many ways you you're not to go. And first
of all, you don't just talked about your dada. It's cool.
(02:09):
The bond we have now that we're so hoping about
this because when your dad passed, You've reached out to me.
And I'm always trying trying to tell people, reach out
to your teammates, reach out to people that get your
don't get you. Everybody wants to help you. So I was, man,
I was so honored that you felt safe enough to
come and reach out to me that day. That was.
(02:29):
That was amazing, brother. And I'm thankful and and you know,
some of the words that that you shared with me
that day, I still go back to a lot and
and yeah, I've I've actually screenshot that message just you know,
just so I never forget, because um, you know, there
are there are a few moments that yeah, it just
you know, it helps you just process things. And and
(02:49):
you know, I think that was the coolest thing in life, Like, yeah,
there was. You know, we we've gone back and forth
and played phone tag here and there, and I was like, shit,
I don't know who you talked to. I don't know
who to reach out to, and and um, I just snapped.
I was like, Jay, I'm gonna text j And yeah,
I'm thankful you were there. And again, the the advice
and the wisdom you gave me and thankful for man.
(03:10):
I got goose bumps man just saying that it's cool
because it's we need a team and you need to
be of service, you know, so to be there for
your brother or anybody reaches out and we're going through this,
so I want to ask you this and that starts
being of service, just being there for anybody. But I
want to ask you, this is yours an everyday battle.
Like for me, it's hard for me to get out
(03:32):
of bed every single day of my life. And this
isn't a new thing. This has been around for a while.
Is it that way for you? There are months or
weeks where yeah, it's like that, all right, I guess
I call it seasonal depression. You know, there's a there's
a like a six week stretch from basically like second
third week in October through the middle of November. So
(03:55):
I'm I'm in it. Um. I've had some really large
things happened to me in my life, broken bones, kind
of a bunch of different things. So yeah, so, um,
I just know this is a moment where I need
to make sure I'm aware and keeping in touch with
everything that's going on. You know, if my body is
(04:16):
telling me a certain thing, listen to it, don't stuff
it down. When did you realize you were listen? I
like to say different because I would say different good,
like the fun I'm different? Yeah, sure, When did you
realize you were different? I mean, like I'm thinking like
career wise, like I'm going back to eleven when my
coach said that you could make the Olympic team in
four years, and I was like, I don't know if
(04:37):
him that's just him talking shit, or you know, if
him actually believe in it. Right. So but as a
kid at that point, I was like, yeah, cool, I'm
all in, let's go and and sure make the Olympics, right,
and then sure enough four years later, bang it happens,
you know what I'm talking about. So it's like I
was like, all right, maybe this guy is not crazy
or maybe yeah I am different. But also at the
(04:59):
same time, like I felt that I was normal, you know,
because I was doing something that I loved. Bro, You're
not right. I know that I was thinking, well, make
sure that I was thinking about it today a little
bit like um, like I was thinking like trying to
win eight gold medals, like I was trying to do
something that no one had ever done before. Right, there
(05:21):
was no blueprint, right, like if I want to try
to change the time on my phone or like the
text on my phone, Like, if I don't know how
to do it, I can look that up. There's no
there's no book that says here, this is how you
win eight gold medals. Right. I had to fight, like
basically figure it out trial and air. And I think
that was that's make me that, Like that makes me
(05:42):
who I am. The process of things makes me makes
me who I am. All right, So now when did
you realize you were different mental health wise? When did
you first realize you suffered from the gray that I
accepted from it? Yeah, I probably accepted from it in
like two dozen fourteen, Um, but why did you When
did you know it was? Yeah? That was a few times,
(06:06):
a few instances through my mental health journey, right Like
that was a few pretty big public depression spells that
I had gone through, And I was like, oh, ship,
maybe I need to try to figure this thing out.
Maybe I need to try to not tame it but
learn it right, figure out why I am how I
am right, because it's like it's not gonna change, you know,
Like like you said, right, like you wake up every
(06:27):
day and it's a struggle, you know, like ship like
for me, like my depression, I can't snap my fingers
and have it just go away. I can't just snap
my fingers and have my anxiety go away, right, So
it's like, how do I maintain it? You know? How
do I just be me and be okay with being
who I am? You But you came out early, yeah,
earlier than most to talk about it. That's pretty courageous.
(06:51):
I just didn't care, honestly, Like to the no, I
was just like kind of just sick and tired of
feeling how I was. Yeah, I was still able to
go and swim in train. But I think I used
that anger and that frustration in the pool um, you know,
like I kind of think I helped, like that helped
me become who I was, but maybe not in a
healthy way. But then like in the outside world, I
(07:13):
didn't know how to deal with it. So I think
in fourteen, like that's where I was, just after my
second d U I was like, Okay, I gotta figure
something out, Like what's going on? Why am I acting out?
You know? Why? Am I screaming for help? And in reality,
that's what it was, right. I didn't know how to
ask for help. So at that point I was just like, yeah,
like it is what it is, this is who I am,
and here you go. But like thinking back to that interview,
(07:35):
and it's still crazy because it was Tim Layden who
did the piece and I don't know the question that
he asked me that made me just blah uh and
open up. Um. We were sitting there and doing like
the cover story for the Olympics going into you know,
the two thousand sixteen games, and I just opened up.
And and ever since that point forward, I was just like, yeah,
(07:56):
here you go, you know. Yeah, like today I feel
like a piece of ship today. I want to be
six ft underground. Today. I don't want to do anything today.
I don't want anybody to talk to me. Right, I'm
just in one of those moods and know like sometimes
a hug won't help, you know, sometimes it's me just
taking time by myself, taking that piece and quiet. Right,
So it just depends, you know, Like it's that cycle.
(08:18):
Like I always I used the term riding the roller coaster,
Like if I send the roller coaster in Melogi. I'm
just all over the I'm going to figure you out
to when when they come in. But but you just
said it too, and people don't understand the code. Man,
I get this all the time. How could you want
to be six ft under I mean, look at you,
You're a TV Hall of Fame, You're you've done this
(08:39):
and bawlers and fighting in football and NFL on Fox.
I'm like, yeah, but you know, like my life is great,
but between my ears sucks, right, and people don't understand.
But people are gonna look at you, go, Michael Felt,
how could you want to feel six ft underground? So what?
Let do you know what led to your pain? Um?
I think I'm learning more about it. I think for me,
(09:01):
like there's a lot of compartmentalization from you know, decades, um,
a lot of it. And and to be honest, was
you know, not having a dad, you know, like my
parents divorced very young and and and it's not not
having a dad. My dad's dad also passed when he
was very young, so he didn't have dad, right, so
he didn't really understand how to fully be there and
(09:22):
support a child and be there when he needs to
write and look I can't blame him, but you know,
like for me, like I used that as motivation now
every day for my kids. Right, So just trying to
change that cycle, you know. And and I think part
of it is is obviously it's learning, it's going through
the process. And and for me, I think in two
thousand and fourteen, I was able to have a really
(09:42):
good conversation where I got a lot of stuff off
my chest and we were able to talk a lot
and and and just uncover a lot of the stuff
that we probably were both holding onto for decades. So
I think that was really cool and really special. But
I think it's like now, it's probably it's just learning
how I was raised and understanding it and processing it.
And but it's also not pointing blame too, you know,
(10:04):
like we were raised how we were raised, and it
is what it is. You know, our parents did the
best that they could. You know, if we want changed,
then we have to change. And and I'd like to
see change in in a mental health front. And so
for me, I look at it in a different way
than my parents ever did, and they probably ever could process.
It's funny. I I had dinner my my folks, I
don't see them a lot. My mother tells me earlier
(10:26):
this year, Oh you know I've suffered from anxiety left,
and so did your grandma. I'm like, how about a
heads up here? Like the first time here? It's two right,
thanks a lot now, I mean God, because for me,
it's it's always I don't know any way to not
feel this way, like my entire life as a little kid,
my earliest childhood memory, I've brought upstairs chicken and screaming
(10:49):
and crying and usually punished. And man, I just felt like,
like you said, like the universe, the universe hates me,
Like the world's gonna come crashing down around me. And
that pain for people who who don't suffer from it,
it fucking sucks. It's a it's for me, it's a
victual physical reaction. When you get your tax, do you
(11:09):
feel it physically? Also? At times I think it's just
where my head is, like where mine's kind of specific.
I get on the left side of my gut, behind
my rib cage like having a heart attack, and my joints. No,
there are times I think like it's more of just
like I want to crawl in a ball, like I
just want to just like I don't know if it's
(11:30):
like physical pain, Like I think there were times where
like I like there was once where I was in
such a dark phase and like I haven't talked about
this much, but I actually took like a golf cleat
and hit myself in the head. Like I was so
piste off and this is like this is probably like
six seven years ago. And as soon as I did that,
I was like, Okay, I need to figure something out, right,
(11:52):
like my life has gotten to this point. And it
wasn't like a pleat cleat, Like it wasn't like metal cleats,
but like you know, it didn't feel good. But also yeah,
but like looking back at it now, like I can laugh,
I can laugh about it because like you know, like
I think it's the um but I think like and
(12:13):
and the biggest thing and and you know, going back
to like my parents, like I don't here you go
all the horses that were a great dame um, like
going back to my parents, Like it's the acceptance, right,
Like I love my parents to death, I always will,
but it's the acceptance of these things, these moments, these pains,
these traumas, right, Like you know, like if I like
(12:33):
I don't want to sit and stuff stuff stuff because
I'm not going to be able to grow and learn
from those experiences and then try to teach my kids
how to deal with those things. Right, So I think
that that is the hardest part for me. And I think, like,
you know, thinking back like that golf cleet um, Like
I can think back to certain times like that, and
I can always know kind of the pain that I
(12:56):
was going through, but I can also look at the transformation, right,
you know. I think for me, like I can go
back to what I was feeling when I was at
the meadows where yeah, almost every day I didn't want
to be alive and I hated myself and I couldn't
look at myself in the mirror because I saw a
swimmer and that was it. You know. Now I got
to the point where I'm at the point now where yeah,
I can see this kid with a man bun and
(13:17):
you know, like whatever, Like I can see this, I
can see me for who I am. I can see
myself for a human being. And I think that is
something that you know, because of the growth, because of
the acceptance, because of the things that I've gone through,
Like that's why I am how I am, and like
I love it this way right, Like you know, like
I think back to, you know, points where I was
afraid to even open up and talk about it. You know,
(13:39):
I think that was the craziest thing because now to
the point I'm like whoa, Like, yeah, I'm having a
bad day and like, honey, yep, one of those days
like just giving your heads up, like it could be
a little cuckoo to day, like could be off. You know,
you you just reveal that I've never revealed this, but
when I have those self loathing moments, I punched myself
in head that I've done that, and it's like, man,
(14:04):
you're just so self loathing and that's so I appreciate
you sharing that with me. And then figure out I
gotta share that with you, and I still do it.
And I'm like because I also go, you know what,
I know, I can do a lot of damage with
these hands. There's I'd rather do it to me than
somebody else. And they also look like I deserve it
half time, and we don't deserve We fucking don't deserve it.
(14:24):
It sucks that we go that down that path. Yeah,
like I'll ask like in those times like what have
you found as outlets that help you? Right? Like besides,
have you tried anything else? You know? Like for me,
like I always go to working out, you know, like
you have to get in there, like you know, like
you've hit me mouth all times and like yeah, Jim,
like I hit you right after I'm done. But like,
like what are like what are other things? You know?
(14:44):
Like it's me visit meditation, is it? Right? You know?
I started? So I went to Thailand this offseason for
thirty five days. I told you about that, right, and hey,
they made me really and I sent you some of
these notes. They made me really heal that little kid
in me, right, that that little you know, holding little
Jason's right. But so now every day before I ever
(15:06):
look at my phone and now get up, I do
breathwork for for ten minutes, right, I meditate for five
of the things that I'm grateful for. Then I write
down ten things I'm grateful for from the previous day
that made me happy. And it's hard sometimes for a
lot of them, but you know what, I'll make it.
It could be something materialistic, it could be just something
somebody said. It could be a memory I had, whatever
(15:28):
it is, so I do all that and then I'll
get a ten minute work at in before I ever
look at my phone, and that usually gets me. It
will calm me down. It's a better way for me
to start today than to start today thinking that the
universe is ending and the universe hates me and my
sky is phone. So do you look back at those
things right down all the time. So originally it was
(15:49):
a hundred. They told me to do a hundred grant right,
a grand afew list of a hundred things I'm grateful
for from my whole life. And brother, you think would
be so easy for somebody like me or somebody like you,
Holy funk? Was that hard? You know, because you don't
feel like you deserve any of it, so you don't
want to write it down because you're almost like you're
jinxing yourself or you feel shittier about yourself. But oh,
(16:11):
now you're just bragging, like funk. It's terrible. But then
once I did, it was like God in the universe. Oh,
my son says he loves me. And my son said
this to me one time when my dog gives me kisses.
And when I first adopted my dog, I got the
postal rescue pit and like her first day and you know,
buying houses and being on Fox NFL Sunday and my
whole Fox NFL Sunday crew and walking fighters down to
(16:33):
a cage for championship fights and fuck, there's a million.
It could be a parent shoes whatever it was if
I got a hundred. So I was reading that whole
hundred list every single morning, and now I've expanded it
where every day I write an extra ten and then
I usually still go back to that that hundred when
I'm down. When it when it's when the roommates in
my head are not playing nicely together, I'll go back
(16:54):
to that original hundred and read that. Yeah, that's like
the one thing for me. Like I like whenever I
have like I can out the feedback loop from hell,
like and that like up here just keeps going and
going and spinning and spinning and spinning, and like I
get to that point where like I feel like I'm
gonna blow. It's like how do I get myself out
of that moment? Right? So I always have like a
hunt like not a hundred, but it's like I have
(17:15):
like ten different journals or like little notepads sitting here,
and some of them are the bad days, some of
them are good days, some of them do list like
all this stuff. I am in that moment where I'm spinning.
I try to go back and I look or I
just get it all out, right, because like during those
good days, like you have so many good thoughts, you
feel like you're on top of the world, nothing can
(17:35):
get in your way. But then it's like like for me,
I can I can turn like that and if I turn,
this goes on. So then it's like, Okay, how do
I get back to that living in the neutral, living
in the moment? And it's like I go back to
all the notes that I have and just the memories,
right because and I feel like it's the same thing
you're doing by that, but like by what you just said,
(17:57):
it's like those thoughts and memories are there. Probably for me,
it's like little things that trigger something. It's like, how
do I control that? And the only way I can
control it is either getting it out or like for me,
is looking at something from the past because I want
to calm myself down, right, So I asked just because
in like those moments where you know, like where we
are hitting ourselves like, how can we stop that? You know,
(18:18):
like you know, like my wife says to me, it's
just like all the times, like you can't do that.
I'm like, I know, I can't do like I know
do that, Like I want to be able to stop that,
but you know, like for me, it's how do I
get to that point where I do stop it and
I can control it and I can't help myself. Isn't
it cool that we could talk about these things that
was so openly. No, that's I'm proud of you talking
(18:40):
about it. I'm learning to be proud of me talking
about it. And again I'm still a work in progress
that we can change this world. You know. I had
this thing the other day. It must have been people
or something, and the guy was moderating with He's like,
hold your phone up in the air if you know
somebody or you're going through some kind of mental health struggle.
(19:01):
Seventy percent of the room had the phone stup and
they said, now keep your phone in the air if
you've gone through suicidal ideation. Seventy people at their hand
up there. I was floored because I think, well, I
think for a number of reasons. I think number one
because I was so happy that people were honest and open,
(19:24):
right because what we just talked about, right, Like, yeah,
it's hard as hell to open up and talk about it,
but once you do open up, like that, awareness is
so powerful. So like for me, I was just I
was happy inside because at the chance, like we have
an opportunity to potentially save a life, right, you don't
have to suffer in silence, and and and number two,
(19:45):
I was like, oh my god, the world has changed, right, like,
you know, like people are okay, not being okay, you
know five years ago, like we never would have thought
or nobody would have lifted that mat up underneath their
up up from the problems that were. We're hiding underneath
of them and talking about them. So it's like all
of these things. I feel like it's just so powerful.
And yeah, we're making great progress, but there's so much
(20:08):
more because it's too reactive. We're not proactive enough. Like
people need to do what you and I are doing
for our mental health before the scot's fault. Like even
if they don't think they have an issue, they need
to start doing this, or just when times are good,
get a routine look mental health. They'll go to therapist
after it's too late, or you don't always try, you
(20:29):
don't only swim when your time is off, you're doing
all the fun time all the time, or or I
love it that they're like, uh no, we can't get
a therapy appointment for six weeks, and like six weeks
comes up and like, oh no, I don't need to
go anymore. I'm fine. Actually you're not. You're you're not fine.
My one thing for fine it's freaked out, insecure, neurotic
and emotional and you can only be fine on mondays.
(20:51):
I like that. Holy sh it, I like that a lot.
Who used to say that, My my coach and my
mom and I used to always say that back in
the day. You just said something also like man, I
can't get a therapy pointment for six weeks. That is
a problem, a huge problem. But what we can't do
is what you did recently is like are you struggling?
You reached out to me, like there are we could
be each other's therapists and leaning on each other, and
(21:12):
it gets us like, I don't know, I don't know
about you bad, But every time I've opened up to
somebody and my friends are the baddest motherfucker's in the black,
you know what. They are the most macho people of
all time. It has just gotten us closer together. Nobody
has called me a woos nobody's told me to suck
it up, nobody said, oh stop, jay man, your life
is too great. But it's just gotten us closer together. Like,
(21:34):
there there are a few people that, honestly, like I've
always respected, but I never thought I'd be as close
as I am because of that, right, Like, like, there
are a few random people in my life that I've
become friends with who just send a random text and
I looked out. I'm like, oh, what's up, dude? You know,
like I always put a smile on my face. You're like,
(21:54):
you know, always like I feel safe and comfortable with.
So I feel like that's something that's so special. Yes,
building that brotherhood, building that trust, that bond. It's hard
to put in the words, but it's cool. Here's another
thing I do, by the way, I forgot when I
am struggling, um, I will do what you did. I'll
reach out to four my my boys and say I'm
struggling today, I need some help. But the same day
(22:17):
I'll reach out to four other people and just check
up on them. Yeah, just like you were saying, like, oh,
random text, because that's me being of service to somebody else.
And that also helped me cut through the gray. I
don't want to forget that. And I feel like that's
that's so true because it's like what you do you
get back ten times, right, you know, like and that
right then, like you you reaching out, like you're opening up,
(22:40):
like you're becoming vulnerable, like being a friend to somebody
else that potentially is going to the same thing, you know.
So I feel like that's that's so that's awesome. A
couple of weeks ago ahead on Andrew Wentworth, the captain
of the Rams, right, you know, looks like me except
eight feet taller, so extremely sexy. But man, I'm with
him in the car after they in the Super Bowl,
(23:00):
and he opened up about this on this podcast and
he was in the fucking tank. He just it's the
greatest moment of his career. He wins it all. He's
the oldest person to ever started tackle in the history
of the NFL, much less than to be a captain
in the Super Bowl game. And he's in the front
seat of the car with his head in his hands
and he is in the tank and I am trying
(23:24):
to boost him up, saying, dude, He's like, I just
I don't deserve it. I'm not worthy of this. When
you win your gold medals, are you able to celebrate yourself?
I just heard you already grown. Are you able to
celebrate yourself or do you go through something similar? It's
hard because, like you know, I think once I win one,
I had to be able to like in one ear
(23:46):
out the other, right, because there was six or seven
more that I was trying to swim or win that week. Um,
at the end of the week, it's hard to sit
still because I'm on a whirlwind tour, right like that
first like week, two weeks, you're jumping all over the
place doing different shows. But I think after that it's
kind of like, what's next? Who am I? What's my identity?
(24:07):
And I think that's the scary part, right because I
think you you work so hard for you know, for
me anyway, I feel like I worked so hard to
get to that point and at the snap of your fingers,
it's gone, it's done, it's finished, it's not gone. You
did it. Yeah, But the problem, that's the problems we have, right, Yeah,
I guess, like but I I I never I never
(24:29):
sat and celebrated like I. I never. I guess I
never could. I remember, I'll never forget. You know, when
I won my first one back in two thousand and four,
the very first day of the Olympics, So four and
I am. I went four oh eight and I win
and I, you know, have the medal, share it with
my mom through a chain link fence and she's like, oh, yeah,
that's so awesome. I'm like, yeah, we did it. And
(24:50):
my coach is like, hey, we got a warm down. Time,
we got another race tomorrow. I'm like, oh great, like cool,
like shoving my bag all right, cool, time time to
go to the next one. Like That's basically what it
was my career. I would say I've gotten through two
thousand and eight. I've been able to process everything to
that point. Two thousand and twelve for me, is one
(25:11):
of the most challenging Olympics of my life because I
wasn't happy with the results, but again, I got the
results that I deserved. So it's it's hard for me
to watch those races because I literally was off by that.
But then again, if I don't do that, then I
don't come back for sixteen. So it's just trying to
(25:34):
process all of that stuff. But yeah, it's it's I've
never been able to celebrate, but like to this day,
have you been? Have you since been? I want to
sit back and go, oh man, what do you mean? No, dude,
you need to. You need to. You deserve to more
than anything. You deserve to. You put that work in,
you spilt that sweat, you deserve to. That's something you
(25:57):
gotta work on. Is being able to love yourself up.
Something that again exactly the same thing I was talking
about with when like we deserve to love ourselves up,
we do something that is great saying yeah, like I'm
not saying I'm not proud, I'm not happy at the accomplishments,
but I mean I feel like like also, like I'm
somebody who is so detail oriented, so it's hard for
me to sit and try to really process every single
(26:19):
moment in memory like I want to. Um, I'm in
the process of just finishing a book. I just got
the seconded it's not asshole and uh, I just been.
I just got the second manuscript. We ripped up the
first one and went back and kind of reprogrammed everything
into the right spot. So I'm finishing that and hopefully
(26:42):
that's out soon. Oh you're finishing your own book. I
thought you read the book. That's how I was like,
you asshole, not read my book? Yeah? No, no, yeah
for you super pumped about it, And I think that's
something that that will help me process some of it too, right,
being able to read it and see it all on paper.
I think living it through the pandemic UM was challenging emotionally,
(27:03):
but I think it was also really cool because I
was able to learn and grow through those emotions that
I went through. Right, So I want to get back
to this. You get a gold medal, Ye, we see
you really really happy out there going nuts, but you're
not that happy on the inside. Is that I can't
be because I have to be able to control the
emotions UM and every really everything my physical, mental, everything
(27:29):
well being through those next few days. Because I can't.
I don't well I don't want to say I can't,
but I shouldn't really kind of pour too many emotions
into one event because then I'm draining myself for the
whole entire week. So when when I won eight gold
medals in two thousand and eight. That process started back
in two thousand and two when I was trying to
(27:49):
learn how to adapt to swimming that many races and
clear my lactic acid and swim down and eat enough
and sleep enough, and do all in stretch enough and
make sure I'm doing all the small details. So after
I win a gold medal, what I would do is
typically I get off of the award stand um. It
(28:10):
depends if I had another race or not, if I
was done for the night. I mean typically just get
probably get back in and clear my lactic acid. So
we we prick our ear, take a blood sample. My
lactic acid to be below anything below three point oh,
and I'm good. So I would just swim at my
heart I keep my heart rate about one twenty, and
I would just swim comfortably up and down, up and down,
(28:32):
up and down until my lactic acid cleared. Once it
was cleared, I'd hop out of the pool. I'd hop
on the massage table and get a massage. Once I'm
done the massage, I get a dinner that they have
free made. Typically it's like pasta, you know, some kind
of car a little bit of protein. I jump into
a cold bath. I'm eating while I'm in the cold bath.
I get on the I get out of the cold tub,
(28:54):
put all my clothes on, get on the bus, still eating.
If I'm still hungry, going to the dining hall and
get food. By that point I need to get into
bed because I swim the next morning. Okay, but all
those emotions the day after you win eight fucking gold medals,
are you able to sit and go, oh my god,
I did this. Yeah, but I still had to come
(29:15):
on and do all the interviews with y'all. I'm in football,
let's say you. But were you able to? Was there? So? Still?
There's never a moment even wore you're doing the interviews
where you're able to I mean I and love yourself
up for it, I mean love yourself up really Okay,
since then, since your career has ended, we ran out too.
In Vegas. Was with Sean McVeigh, right, and McVeigh was like, dude,
(29:37):
you're one of one. I'm like, yes, he's one of one.
Are you able to appreciate that love that conversation? Yeah?
I mean and and and honestly, you know, and yeah,
until somebody breaks my records, Yeah, I guess I'm one
of one. Uh you know, you know there's no guessing here.
You're one of one, dude. I guess the one thing
(29:59):
that is crazy, Like thinking about it now, I've only
looked at the medals all at once less than a
handful of times. I guess the easiest way of saying is,
I don't want them to define who I am as
a human, right, Like that's a chapter of who I
am and what i'm you know, what I feel like
I am doing or what I'm supposed to do, right
(30:21):
Like for me, like that gave me the platform to
be able to have what I have today, right, you know,
to be able to stand up and and to allow
let's just scream about mental health. Look, yes, is it? Was?
It amazing what I did? Of course, Like I'm literally
looking at a finish right now above my desk where
I want to raise by a hundredth of a second,
hundredth of a second, you know what I'm saying, Like yeah,
(30:42):
without question, Like there have been a few times and
like ship like that was awesome, like spots, you know,
like I had some great, great memories, some amazing things,
but I think as a whole no, like when like
when somebody reads a bio and they're like twenty three
time Gold medalists, eight times Olympic medalists, thirty nine time
world record holder. I'm like, what, Like, is this a dream?
(31:03):
Like I feel like it is a dream, because like
this is what I dreamt of as a kid. I
wanted to do something that no one else has ever done.
And I'm living a fucking dream come true. You know
what I'm saying. Like that's the reality of it. So yeah,
like there are some things that really hard to process
and and yeah there are some things that I look
and I'm like, wow, like this is incredible for me.
(31:23):
Now it's the mental health. That story I shared about
the cell phones. That story, for me, I will never forget,
and I'll never forget how I felt, you know, I'll
never forget sitting next to a guy on an airplane.
This guy is probably like mid sixties, white hair dude,
and he was like, so you're telling me you just
talk about mental health and you think that's gonna help,
(31:45):
and you think, he goes, that's a sign of weakness.
And I was like and I literally was like I
was like alright. I was like okay, Like we're on
an airplane, I like, take headphones out. I'm like, all right,
now we're getting serious. Like I wanted to go tyson
on him, like him, how's it called? Michael Phelps's Oh.
I almost went nuts and I was like, dude, I
(32:07):
was like, okay. So I basically listed like ten different things.
I was like, do you or you're a family struggle
from PTSD, you know, depression anxiety at little He goes no,
and I go and how on the do you have
any right saying exactly what you just said to me?
And he goes, I've struck a nerve And I said, yes,
you have. I said, you've triggered something, sir, And I said,
(32:29):
I'm gonna finish this conversation right now. Because I didn't know,
honestly at that moment, like I was so raged, I
was so angered inside. I didn't know what to do,
And the only thing I could do is I knew
I had to be as polite as I possibly could
to shut the conversation down and get out. But it's
like stuff like that, that's the thing that makes me
happy with the fights that I'm doing every single day,
(32:51):
whether it's for me, whether it's for you, whether it's
for somebody else, right, because we're saving a life. I
want you to go back a second here, because could
have both. I want you to to go back and say
maybe the okay, you don't want to say the gold
medals to find you okay, but maybe you look at
the gold medals and go the work that I I put
in for those that defind me. That's who the funk
(33:13):
I am? For sure? Yeah, you out worked the world.
You didn't just don't work. You outwork the world. There's
a question. There's a question somebody gave me once and
a reporter, European reporter goes, do you ever feel bad
for winning all those medals? And I started laughing my
ass off, that's like, excuse me? And he goes, do
(33:34):
you feel bad for the other people? And I go, no,
I go they could have worked hard too, That's exactly right. Bad. No.
The question is that like I did? I like I
earned those things right, right? And there was a so
that that could lift you up? Yes? Sure, like like
I look back and and I'll look and say I
went six straight years without missing a single day. Did
(33:54):
any other person ever do that? No? So I gave
myself a better chance to have greater success with the
things that I did that nobody else, nobody else were
willing to do. So No, I don't feel bad for
winning all those medals. Maybe you could like look at
the medals more though, and then think of that. Right, Hey,
I'm proud of myself because I put in more work
(34:16):
than anybody else, not by a little, but by a lot.
And not only that, Michael, you put in the work
when nobody else was watching. That's what true greatness is,
right that under arm a commercial I did. I guess
back in sixteen. It's what it's what you do behind
the scenes, in the dark that brings you to the light. Right,
It's the things that you do when when you don't
(34:38):
want to do them right That that that brings you
into being who you are, right that, that's what the
greats do. Like, that's the difference between being great and
being good. Great you have to do things that people
aren't willing to do, right, Like, that's the separation. I
asked all my guests or last question, give me your
unbreakable moment, Give me that moment that should have broken
(34:58):
you could have, o can you? And you didn't, and
you came through the other side of that tunnel. Uh.
It's probably the moment of of not wanting to be alive,
you know. I think I was at a dark spot
in my life where at that moment I was I
was prescribed ambient from three different doctors monthly. I was happy.
I only had three pills left. It was a night
(35:21):
of my d y, my second one fourteen, and I
got home and I just remember I was like, funk,
I'm just gonna take the rest of these and I
hope I don't wake up. I mean, like I knew
I was gonna wake up, Like I was taking fifteen
milligrams almost every night, Like I knew I was gonna
wake up. And I was like, I hope this ends it.
And I woke up and for three days I basically
(35:44):
didn't leave my room. I didn't eat, I didn't drink anything.
I just sat there. I was just being And at
that very moment, I was just like, fuck this, I
gotta change. How can I change? And I literally called
two people and I said, find me some kind of help.
Where can I go? Because I honestly like it was
(36:07):
kind of like the moment where I was like, I
can't live life like this. I have to change something.
Has to change, what has to change. So I was like,
I'm gonna check myself into treatment center and figure things out. Right,
unplug all those wires, decompressed fit like, uncover all the
ship that I was going through, why I was going
through it, and kind of reprocessed how I how I live,
(36:29):
and uncover why I am why I am. Look like
when I went to the Meadows, I spent a week
in this thing called Survivors, where it was basically taking
everything that was ever hurting me inside and just unloading it,
talking about the most painful things I must I must
have gone through. I'm looking for cleanexes. I must have
(36:50):
gone through a box of fucking cleanexes every single session,
every session, And right then and there, I was like, okay,
nothing if I was like I am unbreakable. It's like
this stuff literally should have broken me throughout my whole
entire career, right, you know, the ship that I dealt
with and I lived with and you know made me
struggle throughout my whole entire career made me who I am.
(37:10):
And that's what you said to me the other day
in the text. You know you said something along those lines.
You know it made me who I am today, right,
and at that very moment, like, yeah, I could have
I could have been snapped in half, but that's not
who I am and I wasn't gonna let that happen, right,
And that's why I'm sitting here today talking to you
on this podcast. Right. You know, like ship, we all
(37:31):
go through ups and downs, we all we all go
through times that we think are unfathomable, shouldn't happen, darkest
moments you could ever possibly process. Like I always think
like everything happens for a reason, and those moments are
putting our life for that challenge. And yeah, are they
(37:52):
fucked up at times? Sure, of course they are, some
of them. Like I can look back at some of
them now and you know, flick off and and you know,
shake my head, laugh, But you know, those are the
moments that give me the opportunity to be who I
am today. And I think that's the proudest thing that
I can ever look at. That man, you know, it's
like like we got we gotta think about the ship
(38:12):
that we've gone through and the hearts that have gone through,
and we always have to remember that, right, Like you
said it best like that that inner child man that
is so good. I love that you said that, because
not many people have really like dove into that, and
that's something that I I can still go back to
that painting that I drew when I was at the
meadows of my inner child, and and exactly where he's
standing and what he's doing, and and you know what
(38:34):
kind of person he is, and and the attention that
he adores and he seeks. So yeah, I could go
into deeper conversations with that whenever you want. Brother, I
appreciate you. First of all, I'm glad do you only
have three ambient left? Next number one? Because now I
get a battle buddy for the rest of my life
and you and I get to keep walking this walk together.
I'm proud to call you brother, proud to call your
(38:56):
friend man. I'm crowd proud to walk this walk with you. Dude.
If if I was sitting there in your house, I
give you a big gas hug. Man, I will next
time I see you. You got my brother again, Michael Phelps,
one of one. Thank you for joining us here. And
I'm Breakable. If you haven't read the book yet, there's
a book out Unbreakable, How I turned my depression anxiety
and a motivation you can't too. And that's what Michael
(39:17):
and I are doing again. Make sure you like and
review this as well. And Michael Phelps, Brother, I love
you and appreciate you. I'm gonna leave you a one
more thing. This is something I did when I was
in treatment, and it's kind of weird to think about,
but you know, we we have so much talk that
goes into our head every single day. So you know,
I called I called the roommates in my head to
(39:37):
the roommates in our heads. So we have so many
roommates in our heads, so we can control with those roommates. Think.
So the thing that I did it at the Meadows
was every single doorway I would walk into, whether it's
a bathroom, whether it's a bathroom stall, whatever doorway you're
walking in and you're walking out, you say an affirmation
about yourself and one that you believe. And I guarant
guaran guarantee you you do that for a month. Have
(40:00):
a list of ten affirmations you just have to top
your head. Holy sh it, just watch, but positive affirmations,
positive affirmations, something nice about myself, like for me, like
I I never thought like I deserved love, and that
was right there with you always struggled with and I
would always say I can handle love. I deserve love
and walk through and I'm like, oh ship cool, like
(40:22):
like you just better, like you feel happier. So I
feel like you know, like I feel like it's like
I'm always searching for little small ways or a little
small things that you can implement into your life that
don't take too much brain power, right, that don't take
too much space, right, Like, little small habits whatever it is,
right that you can just throw in there every single
(40:43):
day to give yourself a fighting chance, right, Like we're
all just looking for a chance to get through each
day to go to one more So how can you fight?
And how can you fight in a positive way? You
know what? I want to begin this to day. I
love it. I'm starting it today. I'm starting there today.
And that's where I tell people all the time, you
could change your life now if the wait it takes
(41:03):
the tracks ever a second, change your life now. I
will start it to day. And that's what's great about
these like I And you know I hit you up
a couple of weeks ago about being your own hero, right,
start being your own here start viewing yourself as your
own hero. We can make a choice to start loving
ourselves up or make a change about our mental health
or anything in our in our lives instantaneously. So I
promise you, I'll give you my word right now, I
(41:25):
will start doing this to day. And now you bring
me to another point and m choice. We also have
control what's in our control every single day? Right, there's
so much ship and so much stuff, our choices in
our control. Yeah, that's that's like, that's something for me, like,
like I like I have. I have two tattoos, and
(41:46):
the word control is something I'm I want somewhere on
my body. So I look at every single day because
that's something it's like for me. Like I can control
my emotions. I can talk about my emotions, I can
talk about my feelings. I can write down those things. Right.
I can control if I'm thirsty. I can control if
I need to go to the bathroom. I go to
the bathroom. Right, those are things that in my control.
(42:07):
So when I talk about simplifying things in the most
purest form, most simplest way, right, it's control. What can
you control every day? Another one another trick, Let's keep
doing it. Let's keep along. Hey, brother, I don't know
if we're gonna save the world, we're damn sure gonna
improve it together, one person at a time. YEP. I
love you, my dude, Michael Fels, Thanks dude,
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