December 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Mark continues talking Pens and is joined by Josh Yohe ahead of Pens and Sens tonight
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Anyway, the Hoffman group needs boots on the grind in
Pittsburgh to spend money wisely, but definitely spend, and especially
when the time comes. I don't know what happens to
sports Net Pittsburgh. That's a good question, because FSG owns
sports Net Pittsburgh and they have no reason to want
to continue to own it now. Was that part of
(00:20):
the sale price? We do not know. But the Penguins
need games on TV and it affects the Pirates too,
And yeah, and this is the thing people are making
the big crux of the sale. This is being talked
about more than anything, and frankly, it shows that the
people who talk about it don't know hockey at all,
(00:41):
don't know what's gone on with the Penguins, and don't
know the priorities of this ownership transfer.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But the big deal is being.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Made about how Hoffman needs to make amends with Mario Lemieux,
and I'd love to see it. Mario is the face
of the franchise of Pittsburgh Hockey. He's the biggest, most
pactful figure in the history of Pittsburgh sports, not just
the Penguins, not just hockey. He's the founder of the
feast several times over. You need Mario there and whatever
(01:11):
capacity he wants, it is imperative. You got Mario, you
got the citizens. It ain't been the same between the
fans and the team Fenway in particular since Fenway got
on the ops with Mario, which was all Fenway's fault,
by the way, But there seems this notion that if
(01:33):
you reconnect with Mario, you win quicker.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, not unless he plays and he wants.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Mario must be reconnected, but it's crucial for optics, it's
crucial for feel good.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He won't be GM, he won't be coach. He won.
Mario owned the team owns owns.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Like the B team was acting like he was involved
in hockey operations. Jason Mackie report, he covers the Penguins
for the Post Casette, that Mario is no longer involved
in hockey operations. He never was.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
He never ever was. He would make the odd suggestion.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The most famous one I remember being in two thousand
and eight, Ray Shiro was kind of lukewarm on the
idea of trading for Mary and Hose at the deadline,
and Mario said, you got to we got a shot
at this, and Ray did and they made the final.
So good decision by Mario, but he made so very
few of them. Him coming back is not a shortcut
(02:33):
to winning. Him coming back does not affect hockey ops.
Him coming back is extremely important, but not for reasons
you think, at least not for one reason. You think
it is not a gateway to winning quicker. In fact,
my worry about Hoffman buying is that for that price,
(02:55):
they're gonna want to win quicker than the rebuild dictates.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And the f's up the re built.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I am trepidacious, more trepidations about this Hoffman group than
most because I understand FSG better than most because of
the Liverpool connection. This is a rookie ownership group. FSG
one with Liverpool when Liverpool ain't one in a while,
Liverpool has the Red Sox consistently competing, and you might say, yeah,
(03:25):
they got the budget, do they?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean, do they got a Yankee budget? Do they
got a Dodger's budget?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
No, they do not, And everybody said, how can they
trade Mooki Betts?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Looks like a good move down on it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Mookie Bets has gone to hell in LA and they
got seven more years of him paying him some absurd amount.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Fenway got that right. Fenway gets a ton right.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I want to see what Hoffman gets right and FSG walking.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Here's the standpoint from which it doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And I've had people with Fenway t tell me when,
like when the Hoffman deal fell apart initially, and somebody
from Fenway told me that, Okay, when the deal fell
apart initially, Fenways said that they weren't looking to just
dump the Penguins. It wasn't imperative to them. They didn't
(04:18):
see it as a losing business proposition. But they profited
by like what a billion on this sales? Something like that,
almost a billion? I mean, how can you not make
that deal? But I do know this. I do know this.
You listen to anybody else talking about this, they're kind
(04:39):
of imagining from a distance because it makes sense to them.
Know the stuff you've just heard during this segment I
know to be true. And among those things is Fenway
thinks the NHL is a disorganized, low rent mess.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And Fenway's not wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Mario F.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Misley called it talked to the devil a garage league.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It ain't far above that.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's just this old school Canadian hockey mentality, and it's
why it's never gotten bigger than it is and never will.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
At this point, that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I accept it as something I love, but I also
accept it it's in a niche. I'll give an example
of how the NHL just doesn't get it. The NHL
sabotages itself with the Olympics. It's something out of their
control that they don't directly benefit from. They do it
because the players want to and it's a bargaining chip
in a CBA. But think about this, The NHL, with
(05:38):
International Hockey, creates an event that outshines their main event,
the Stanley Cup playoffs, the Olympics, and last year's Four
Nations in February, winner hockey season. When the Four Nations concluded,
and when the Olympics conclude next year, it'll feel like
(05:59):
hot ended. I guarantee you there's people out there that
have more memory of what happened in the Four Nations
than what happened in the Stanley Cup final. Oh three
fights in nine seconds and then a minute later, Wait
a minute, I who.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Played again in the final the Stanley Cup Final? Who played?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
The NHL promotes an event that diminishes its own product.
The NHL never seems as good after the Olympics, does it.
I mean, it's it can't. It's All Star hockey played seriously,
not like the NHL All Star Game. So that's why
I'm not in favor of NHL or is in the Olympics.
I would much rather have them do it their own
(06:40):
way with the World Cup of Hockey, which they plan
on doing. I mean, look at this mess in Italy.
The rink's not even done. But I digress. If you
have any questions or comments about the FSG sale to
Hop and what I've just said, feel free because I
know other people they don't know I know. And next
up his calls on the fifteens eight three three four
(07:03):
one two WXDX eight three three four one two w xdx.
It's the Mark Mannon Show on one oh five to
nine and train use second Avenue to the Fort Pitt
Bridge outbound stop and go from the Boulevard of the
Allies out to Edgewood, Swiss Vail, Brandon, Joseph.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Total traffic, I'm told, got told.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Got TX at one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Get your calls in for calls on the fifteens A
three three four one two w xdx, or use the
secret backdoor number four one two three three three w xdx.
I think it's important that Mario has his relationship restored
with the Penguins.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
He was not at fault for the split with FSG.
It was all FSG.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That was one of their few failures as the Penguins owners.
But it's not like you think it could be where
he's going to show up at the press conference tourn
stale of the team and shake his fist and say
I'm back and we're gonna start winning right away. There
is no connection between restoring the relationship with Mario and
(08:11):
winning faster, and nobody's directly drawing that parallel, but it's
certainly something that people are attempting to imply, like Mario's
back and it's time to win.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Uh huh I wish wish it were that simple.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Like I said, maybe if he plays and uh, I
hold him in higher esteem than anybody I've ever worked with,
pretty much everyone I've ever known, But it's purely cosmetic optics.
It's good and it'll get fans more involved, and that's
always a good thing financially too, but it's not a
(08:46):
cure all any hoodles eight three, three, four one two WXDX.
Let's go to a Darian Darien. You're on with Mark.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Supervenius. What up?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I just have some questions. I'm curious, though, what the
everyday fan has to expect with the new ownership. And
I'm curious what impact the new ownership would have on
the front office.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, I mean, I don't know what expect what to
expect in terms of their day to day impact. How
would anybody know that they've never owned a professional sports
team before outside of an East Coast Hockey League team,
the Florida ever Blades, who did win, but that means nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
This isn't wheeling. Like I said.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
A moment ago, I'm curious myself as to how it
input impacts management. Kyle Dubas I think has five years
left on his deal, so I wouldn't think he's going anywhere,
nor would the new owner see the need to not
want him to be the GM. I think he's done
a real good job. But rebuilding has to go at
its own pace. It has to be very organic, and
(09:48):
maybe they'll want to accelerate the process, which would not
be good. And it also worries me that Sid's agent
Pat Posson. He had a hot burst about we need
to win now for SID, and may they get in
ownership's ear and and and and forced like money to
be spent on old guys who will only set back
the rebuilding just to get SID a playoff series. I
(10:10):
think that would be just an egregious error.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Honestly, I have the same fear as Mark. I just
don't want to rush the rebuild yet.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I have a lot of fears about this sale, not
least that they had to go out and find more
money to do it after it fell apart.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Once, let's go to Denny. Denny, you're all in double.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
M Hey, Mark, I guess I just wanted to ask.
I agree with you about Mario has got to be
part of this somehow. What role could he play?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Did you listen to a word? I said? Did you
listen to a word? I said?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The role he would play is to be at games
once in a while and be seen what you wanted
to be GM, you want to be coach?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I mean, what do you expect?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I thought something a title like, you know, special advisor
to the Hoffmann Group.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, that's cosmetic, Like do you want him to do
a job. But like, what, what do you want to
have him do?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I put him in the overspoof and advise the Hoffmin group.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
On He doesn't want to do that. He sold the team.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
If he still wanted to do that, he would not
have sold the team.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
What don't you dumb mfors understand?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, then what just you just want him to come
to gamespoo.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes not maybe his own boxes he still does occasionally.
I want him to be affiliated with the team, to
be close to the team, to be part of what's
going on on a peripheral level, because that's all he
wants to I don't understand what you expect. I mean,
for for F's sake, if he wanted to do something,
(11:58):
he would not have sold the team. He just wants
the team to show him the respect he's due, which
the FSD did not do. That is at a minimum,
and if that happens, everything else is gravy, you know
what I mean? Nothing else matters but that for them
to show him his due respect and for him to
be involved on whatever level he wants. But it is
(12:21):
not to advise them on how to run the team,
or how to assemble the team or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Let's go to our good friend the Hebrew ham or Hammer.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Yuck Shamash, Hey yuk shamash, Hey Mark, this group, this
Offfman group. Only a month or two or three ago,
they didn't have enough capital to make the purchase. That's
what I've been Does that worry you?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, I've said that a couple times since we opened
discussion on it. I was told the deal was dead
a month ago, and it was, and then they went
on got more money. They're reportedly worth two billion. They
paid over one point seven billion for the team.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I don't know. I just don't like hearing that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I hope I'm wrong, but I mean it seems sketchy
and we should not forget that f SG is a
professional sports ownership group.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's what they do. These guys are rookies.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Yeah, I don't like it either. It seems it seems
real Schuestring.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Hey, last I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I don't hate it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I just think there's something there that is open to question.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Yeah, I think the.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Term is hinky, but hey, you keep calling them the
ever Blades. I believe the term is ever Blades with
a G.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
That's the proper term.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right, But the hockey team they have blades on their skates,
hence ever blades.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's your cue way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Let's go real quick to uh sherm sherman with double M.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Hey uh, I just want to make a quick commented A.
I'm happy for Mario to get out of it because
he you know, he went bankruptcy twice and he gave
his whole life to the team, So I'm happy to Mario.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Never Mario never went bankrupt. Well that's what was re married.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
No, no, it's not been reported, you freaking jackass. Mario's
never gone bankrupt. He rescued the Dame from bankruptcy. You
stupid idiots. You're like everybody else talking about this. You
can't get anything right. Shut the freak up. Never call again.
One oh five ninety X.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
It's The Woody Show weekday morning, six to ten.
Speaker 7 (14:36):
So it's that Tommy year Agan, isn't it. It's Bonnie
Diver And yeah, the holidays are here and it's a
crazy time. But you know what the bottom line about
what the holidays are all about connecting with your family, right,
And sometimes it's really hard because we're all over the place.
My last living aunt, Aunt Cookie, lives in Cleveland. She's
ninety years old. She's slowing down a little bit, but
(14:58):
it's really important for us to connect up with her,
and especially during the holidays.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Now.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
AT and T has been doing some really nice things
to try to help out. They're offering digital literacy workshops
that help older adults learn how to use technology to
do things most of us take for granted, like video
conferencing and sharing photos. AT and T is not just
a tech provider, but a community partner, and it's helping
to make our holidays a little less stressful, a little
(15:25):
more joyful, and especially for older adults. Thank you AT
and T for bringing us closer together and happy holidays.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You guys, connecting changes everything. AT and T super genius,
Mark Matt, how you doing good? Mace is always a
component of any nice date. Thank you for making my day.
Yeah what you said the exit one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Joining me not live from Ottawa where it's a tough
place to do that. He covers the Penguins with the
Athletic Keys. Josh Joey, Josh, you wrote about the sale
from FSG to the Hoffman Group. To be honest, I'm
a bit worried the Hoffman Group isn't experienced sports owners,
and they seem a bit undercapitalized.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh yeah, Mark, I think the money is the biggest concern,
and understandably so for all that, I don't think people
felt a strong emotional connection with Fenway. The one good
thing about Fenway was they had really, really deep pockets
and with that come stability. The Hoffman family, mean, listened,
They've been trying to buy the Penguins for months and
(16:28):
from I've from what I've been told that the biggest
hold up was simply that they didn't have enough cash
up front to make the sale go through.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, Josh, I was told the deal was dead, but
since then they went out and raised more money.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Right, so, you know, that's great that they're enthusiastic, but
I certainly worry about the finances. It kind of made
me think of Howard Baldwin way back when, who I
think had a lot of good intentions but didn't really
have the money to keep the early nineties Penguins together
and ultimately could not. And listen, I mean, they just
(17:02):
spent an enormous amount of money for the Penguins and
it's not like the Penguins are profitable right now. There's
a lot of empty seats that they're not really making
a ton of money as it is. So it's you now, listen.
I've not heard anything bad about these people at all.
I'm sure their intentions are good, but just financially, Yeah,
I think the fact.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Josh, the Penguins cost one point seven bill, the Google
machine says the Hoppin Group's worth two billion. Those two
figures are a bit too close for my comfort. It
just just seems shaky. And we didn't realize Bob Nutting
was Bob Nutting until he came in and started being
Bob Nutting.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
No, exactly, that's right. So no, I mean there are
legitimate questions. I think that need could be asked. And
like I said, I mean Fenway, for all I wrote
in my article yesterday they were very corporate and that
a lot of people in Pittsburgh didn't love that that
they're not the city. No, and I don't think they tried.
I don't think that's how they do business. But they
(18:02):
also are worth like fifteen billion dollars or something to
that effect. So you never had to worry about the
electric bill not being paid that month with Fenway if
they wanted to spend even though the Penguins don't spend
to the cap right now. Kyle Dubas had complete authority
to spend to the cap if he wanted to. He
just didn't think it was in the Penguin's best interest
right now because he didn't want to tie himself up
(18:23):
a couple of years from now, which I think is smart.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
You clear your roster and you potentially slow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
The rebuild exactly so, And there's so many issues now
that come up. I mean, listen, these people don't have
as much money as spend way. I would imagine they'll
want to start making money on the Penguins right away.
So does that mean they're going to like the Dubas
rebuild plan on how long it might take?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Worries me is that pat Poisson, Said's agent, gets in
Hoffman's ear and says, we need to win right now
for sid don't you want to win right now? And
then it alters the pace of the rebuilding.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Could And that's why so much of the Penguin's fortunes
to me go back to Kyle Dubas because he has
so much power here, but he still deals with the
pressure of pat Erson in his year in the Crosby situation,
and a lot of people say, a screw that, you
got to just worry about the rebuild, but you know
it's not that easy when you're dealing with a living
(19:20):
legend on your roster. That there is a lot to
consider for DUBIS and whoever the owner is is interesting
because hey, that's Kyle. Dubas is one boss, and I
know that Fenway gave him free reign basically to do
whatever he wanted. They were about his hands off as
it could get. I'm fascinated to see how the Hoffmann
family will approach this.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I thought, FST you gotta bum wrap.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean, they mangled in situation with Mario and that's unforgivable.
I didn't like that they re upped Malkin of the Tang,
but the fans wanted that, so again, I can't criticize
FSD too much. Now, the big question everybody's talking about
is Mario. I want Mario back. He's the reason we're
all here. It has to happen, but it won't expedite
(20:02):
winning or affect the hockey at all. He never was
involved in hockey ops. I think he had a phony
asked title at one point, like Director of Hockey ops
like I can recall one time for sure when he
was involved with the move, and that was the acquisition
of Host.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Eight, right, that's where you know he gave it the
green light very enthusiastically. But no, I called Fenway hands off,
but that's nothing on Mario, who was the ultimate hands
off owner. Mario's genius as an owner was two different things.
He knew the right people to hire, and he knew
he had to be around enough that his presence was felt.
(20:40):
And he understood what his presence did the people that
made people work harder. And that's what you need.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Now, you need that presence if that's what he.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Wants, Yes, yeah, And I think that was the one friend.
Fenway didn't even have a person living in Pittsburgh, which
I never thought was a great look and never made
it look like they took the penguins that Seriously, I
don't think Fenway did anything wrong by the way. They
weren't bad owners at all. But you know, Mario had listen.
Mario was Mario, so he was always going to have
an impact that nobody else in Pittsburgh in half. But
(21:08):
I will say this, if I'm the Hoffman family, he's
literally the first phone call at make if PR means anything,
No question, PR means anything at all. Having him around.
He is the Penguins. There's never been an athlete more
synonymous with the franchise in him, so to have him
around can only help him.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Mario rallies the fans just by showing up once in
the while. But it's what he wants to do. And
Fenway didn't mangle with him, and you know it was
on them to repair the chasm, and as it is
with Hoffman right now, but it won't mean winning quicker.
People are out there acting misrepresenting what he did during
his ownership. If he wanted to run the team, Josh,
(21:47):
he would never have sold it correct.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, yeah, I assure you. Mario was not Jerry Jones.
He was not sitting around the draft table figuring out
what they were going to do. That that was never
his thing. As he let David Morehouse run the business
side and he let Ray Shiro or Jim Brutherford or
whoever run the hockey team. He had very little influency.
(22:10):
He always let them spend to the cap and he
just showed up and was Mario. And you know he
would show up to some meetings and do what he
had to do, But anybody who thinks he had any
real influence on the hockey decisions is very sadly mistaken.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And by the way, Mario, who has been at the
home games recently with Sid near his record, but he
is not an outaw with tonight. So I assume if
Sid breaks the record on the road, Mario will be
there at the next home game to help celebrate. We're
talking to Josh Owey of the Athletic here on one
oh five nine the X Josh turning Moore current. Are
these Penguins ever going to win another game? And what
(22:45):
has taught the most wrong in this this losing streak?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Well, I suspect to win another game at some point,
although I will tell you that boy, I was thinking
back to all of my years on the beat, and
I don't recall writing about many wins in Ottawa. They
do not play well in this building almost never, for
whatever reason. And Archer, she loves, is between the pipes
to night. He's lost nine of his last ten starts.
(23:11):
So it sounds a little ominous on the surface, and
I don't want to go to the opera.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It sounds all the way through.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I feel like the foul playing pretty much.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I can tell you that their biggest problem in the
last two weeks has been protecting leads. You already know that,
but to break it down a little further, just the
lack of any situational hockey, which is something that has
plagued them for years. It's really really weird. It's ugly
head to me in recent games, and it's just an
enormous problem. I don't know if it's because there's people
(23:45):
out of the lineup. Not only do they miss have
Anny Malkin, who's missed six games in her own they've
lost all six. I don't think that's completely a coincidence,
But I think a guy like Blake Lazada out of
the lineup has been a really big deal. He's one
of the guys who plays like an adult when you
have a lead in the third period. They don't have
enough with that right now. So just the general lack
of situational hockey, Shooting the puck over the glass when
(24:06):
you're already shorthanded, just kind of those kinds of mistakes
are just killing them. Other than the Edmonton game, I
don't think they've been overwhelmed or overmatched. Now that's what
happened against Edmonton, but I don't think that's been the
case in these other games. That's really self inflicted.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well, the trickle down from Geno and Lozatviiano has been
a real bad bottom six. And I don't think Hughes
has covered himself in glory here either. I think he's
had a really weak stretch, and part of it is
he trusts the bad veterans.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Over the kids.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Like at the end of the San Jose game, he
has Hazy in that line out there, those bunch of
bumps out there protecting the lead against Celebriny and Smith. Now,
I understand if Sid's not you know, if Sid's winded
that line, somebody's gonna go out there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But why do not let the kids try it?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
See if our kids can beat their kids and get
them that experience. Because I kept getting told this year
was about developmental and I see that slipping away.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Well. I was talking with somebody in the organization yesterday
who said to me, you know, why is Kevin Hayes
and Danton Heinen in the bottom six when Tristan Brose
is right there for you and he's ready to play.
And it's a valid question. Dan muses here for people
like Tristan Bros. He specializes in developing guys in their
teens in early twenties and the good NHL players. And
(25:24):
you watch Hayes and Heinen. Not to pick on those two,
but you watch those.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know, I'm going to stink.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And Heinen has easily moved down to wil because he's
been there before.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yes, yes, just the lack of intensity, the lack of
speed they play with, frankly, the lack of defensive acumen
at times as well. It's hurting the Penguins right now.
There's no question about that.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I know.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
There's only so many guys and books where you don't
want to bring the whole cavalry. At the exact same time,
you got a couple of guys down there that you know,
Bros and Avery Hayes. Those are literally guys who are
supposed to become at bottom six NHL players, that's the projection,
and they're thriving in Wilkesbury and it's turning the Penguins
right now and.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
They're losing that kid energy.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, they still have Kendall and McGroarty in there,
Coyvid and some nights, but they mangled Brudick Brunig's played
like a handful of games in the past eight weeks
and that's stupid.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
They should have sent them back to junior.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And they've just got blinded by having that good start
and being a playoff contention, and it's like they want
to scratch out that eighth seed, which shouldn't be important
at all.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, and there's nothing wrong with making the playoffs this season,
but I think one thing that people have missed like
this isn't as young of a team as people think,
and other than Kendall, for most of the season, it
hasn't been young players really making a difference. It's been
the old guys like Malcolm and Carlson playing much better
than the year before, which is fine. Now, Kendall's been wonderful,
(26:54):
and I think right now, really if you look at
this losing streak, I would suggest that Kendall and Rutger
McGroarty have been two of their five best players. They've
actually been really good. You feel good about them when
those two were on the ice, which makes you wonder
if maybe you shouldn't bring a couple of more old
guys or younger guys up rather, especially Mark with this schedule.
They are playing every other day now with his Olympic
(27:15):
condemned schedule. That's not great for older players. You need
young players in the lineup right now. With the schedule
it's as busy, they probably don't have enough of them.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
What's your first take on Stu Skinner and Bright Kulak?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Boy, it's hard to gauge Skinner after a game against
the Oilers. I don't think many goalies would have done
better when you've got five on threes all night against
that team. He's not a great athlete Skinner.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You can see that just from watching him in practice.
He's a big guy. He's not somebody who's gonna move
side to side the way even a Tristan Jari would
was a pretty good athlete. So against a team like
the Oilers, probably a tough matchup. We'll see Kulak. He
took the one bad penalty on the at the lay
of game. I think he's okay though. I think he's
an upgrade over Ryan Graves. He's a guy who can
(28:02):
really skate, who's got a lot of experience, so he's better.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Than what they had. Put it that way, where does
this go from here?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I don't see them as a playoff team yet because
of the magic of the loser point, they are just
a couple of points out. They have this either the
fewest or second fewest losses. I haven't seen the update
in regulation in the Eastern Conference. It is just a
weird situation that management and coaching could interpret so many ways,
and my fear is they'll interpret it the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's weird. They also have one of the fewest amount
of wins in the Eastern Conference because all they do
is lose an extra time. I wouldn't exclude them from
the playoff race by any stretch. I will say this,
I think the next week is really crucial and we're
going to learn a lot. The schedule's not easy. Three
of their next four games are in Ottawa and Montreal
(28:55):
and in Toronto, three places they historically do not play well.
If they go into the holiday break, you know, having
lost nine out of ten or ten in a row,
which is possible, then at that point you know it's
going to feel like a full on collapse, quite frankly,
So the quicker they can get it together and get
a couple of wins, the better they will be. I
(29:17):
will tell you. They don't feel like a rattled hockey
team in the locker room. They really don't. There was
like a lucy goosey attitude.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's bad. If they're not rattled by this, then they
just don't give a freak.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Well, I don't know. If it's sad. It's the young
guys who just they seem okay like they now maybe
I don't know what that means. That maybe they're happy
their dads are on the dad's trip and they're all
just in a good boot.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh, God death if I forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It is the dad's trip. Yes, so I believe they're
curling as we speak. In fact, so maybe that will
bring some good luck. I don't know. But and listen,
it's not like Ottawa's any good by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
This isn't something and they're lost. Just sucks.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
They were supposed to be good by now and there. Yeah,
and they're not what I think, Josh, here's my prediction. Here,
here will be the time. Here's the time. I kind
of fear, and the new ownership puts even another potential
spin on it. I think if they're definitely out of
the playoffs at the deadline and Kyle does the right thing,
(30:17):
it will turn the season into an absolute excreman show.
I don't know what ownership wants or what they'll do.
I fear what Sid's agent will say. It's like the
best thing would have been if they would have lost
ten straight to start the season, because we all could
have girded our loins.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well. I mean, it's just a confusing season, isn't it.
And I don't envy Kyle do but I don't. But
the fact is, if they continue to stumble, if they're
eight points out of a playoff spot, when the deadline comes,
the right thing to do is to sell, whether Sid
likes it or whether Pepperson likes it or not. And
(30:55):
they've got a lot of very attractive players. And I
would now throw Eric Carlson into that, this mark that
a lot of playoff teams would want. Somebody will take
him the way.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And don't forget his contract was front loaded. You have
to take on his cap pit. But actual cash paid
out is diminishing. Is his contract years.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And is in no? Oh no, they could and listen,
they have fifty three million in cap space next year.
They could even retain some of his money if they
got something really big in return, so listen, it could
turn in one of many directions for the Penguins. We
didn't expect them to play as well as they did
in the first six weeks, but now all of a sudden,
they're looking like the team we thought they might be.
And that becomes a real problem because you're not going
(31:36):
to get some top five pick in the draft back season.
So who knows where it goes from here. But as
we always say, Mark, they are never boring. They're certainly
not boring right now.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Josh and enjoy Ottawa.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I know that's not possible, but give it a whirl
Montreal in a couple of nights, it'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
There you go. That's Josh Joey. I'm Mark Madden.
Anyway, the Hoffman group needs boots on the grind in
Pittsburgh to spend money wisely, but definitely spend, and especially
when the time comes. I don't know what happens to
sports Net Pittsburgh. That's a good question, because FSG owns
sports Net Pittsburgh and they have no reason to want
to continue to own it now. Was that part of
(00:20):
the sale price? We do not know. But the Penguins
need games on TV and it affects the Pirates too,
And yeah, and this is the thing people are making
the big crux of the sale. This is being talked
about more than anything, and frankly, it shows that the
people who talk about it don't know hockey at all,
(00:41):
don't know what's gone on with the Penguins, and don't
know the priorities of this ownership transfer.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
But the big deal is being.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Made about how Hoffman needs to make amends with Mario Lemieux,
and I'd love to see it. Mario is the face
of the franchise of Pittsburgh Hockey. He's the biggest, most
pactful figure in the history of Pittsburgh sports, not just
the Penguins, not just hockey. He's the founder of the
feast several times over. You need Mario there and whatever
(01:11):
capacity he wants, it is imperative. You got Mario, you
got the citizens. It ain't been the same between the
fans and the team Fenway in particular since Fenway got
on the ops with Mario, which was all Fenway's fault,
by the way, But there seems this notion that if
(01:33):
you reconnect with Mario, you win quicker.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, not unless he plays and he wants.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Mario must be reconnected, but it's crucial for optics, it's
crucial for feel good.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
He won't be GM, he won't be coach. He won.
Mario owned the team owns owns.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Like the B team was acting like he was involved
in hockey operations. Jason Mackie report, he covers the Penguins
for the Post Casette, that Mario is no longer involved
in hockey operations. He never was.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
He never ever was. He would make the odd suggestion.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The most famous one I remember being in two thousand
and eight, Ray Shiro was kind of lukewarm on the
idea of trading for Mary and Hose at the deadline,
and Mario said, you got to we got a shot
at this, and Ray did and they made the final.
So good decision by Mario, but he made so very
few of them. Him coming back is not a shortcut
(02:33):
to winning. Him coming back does not affect hockey ops.
Him coming back is extremely important, but not for reasons
you think, at least not for one reason. You think
it is not a gateway to winning quicker. In fact,
my worry about Hoffman buying is that for that price,
(02:55):
they're gonna want to win quicker than the rebuild dictates.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And the f's up the re built.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I am trepidacious, more trepidations about this Hoffman group than
most because I understand FSG better than most because of
the Liverpool connection. This is a rookie ownership group. FSG
one with Liverpool when Liverpool ain't one in a while,
Liverpool has the Red Sox consistently competing, and you might say, yeah,
(03:25):
they got the budget, do they?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean, do they got a Yankee budget? Do they
got a Dodger's budget?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
No, they do not, And everybody said, how can they
trade Mooki Betts?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Looks like a good move down on it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Mookie Bets has gone to hell in LA and they
got seven more years of him paying him some absurd amount.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Fenway got that right. Fenway gets a ton right.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I want to see what Hoffman gets right and FSG walking.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Here's the standpoint from which it doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
And I've had people with Fenway t tell me when,
like when the Hoffman deal fell apart initially, and somebody
from Fenway told me that, Okay, when the deal fell
apart initially, Fenways said that they weren't looking to just
dump the Penguins. It wasn't imperative to them. They didn't
(04:18):
see it as a losing business proposition. But they profited
by like what a billion on this sales? Something like that,
almost a billion? I mean, how can you not make
that deal? But I do know this. I do know this.
You listen to anybody else talking about this, they're kind
(04:39):
of imagining from a distance because it makes sense to them.
Know the stuff you've just heard during this segment I
know to be true. And among those things is Fenway
thinks the NHL is a disorganized, low rent mess.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And Fenway's not wrong.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Mario F.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Misley called it talked to the devil a garage league.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It ain't far above that.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's just this old school Canadian hockey mentality, and it's
why it's never gotten bigger than it is and never will.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
At this point, that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I accept it as something I love, but I also
accept it it's in a niche. I'll give an example
of how the NHL just doesn't get it. The NHL
sabotages itself with the Olympics. It's something out of their
control that they don't directly benefit from. They do it
because the players want to and it's a bargaining chip
in a CBA. But think about this, The NHL, with
(05:38):
International Hockey, creates an event that outshines their main event,
the Stanley Cup playoffs, the Olympics, and last year's Four
Nations in February, winner hockey season. When the Four Nations concluded,
and when the Olympics conclude next year, it'll feel like
(05:59):
hot ended. I guarantee you there's people out there that
have more memory of what happened in the Four Nations
than what happened in the Stanley Cup final. Oh three
fights in nine seconds and then a minute later, Wait
a minute, I who.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Played again in the final the Stanley Cup Final? Who played?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
The NHL promotes an event that diminishes its own product.
The NHL never seems as good after the Olympics, does it.
I mean, it's it can't. It's All Star hockey played seriously,
not like the NHL All Star Game. So that's why
I'm not in favor of NHL or is in the Olympics.
I would much rather have them do it their own
(06:40):
way with the World Cup of Hockey, which they plan
on doing. I mean, look at this mess in Italy.
The rink's not even done. But I digress. If you
have any questions or comments about the FSG sale to
Hop and what I've just said, feel free because I
know other people they don't know I know. And next
up his calls on the fifteens eight three three four
(07:03):
one two WXDX eight three three four one two w xdx.
It's the Mark Mannon Show on one oh five to
nine and train use second Avenue to the Fort Pitt
Bridge outbound stop and go from the Boulevard of the
Allies out to Edgewood, Swiss Vail, Brandon, Joseph.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Total traffic, I'm told, got told.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Got TX at one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Get your calls in for calls on the fifteens A
three three four one two w xdx, or use the
secret backdoor number four one two three three three w xdx.
I think it's important that Mario has his relationship restored
with the Penguins.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
He was not at fault for the split with FSG.
It was all FSG.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That was one of their few failures as the Penguins owners.
But it's not like you think it could be where
he's going to show up at the press conference tourn
stale of the team and shake his fist and say
I'm back and we're gonna start winning right away. There
is no connection between restoring the relationship with Mario and
(08:11):
winning faster, and nobody's directly drawing that parallel, but it's
certainly something that people are attempting to imply, like Mario's
back and it's time to win.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Uh huh I wish wish it were that simple.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Like I said, maybe if he plays and uh, I
hold him in higher esteem than anybody I've ever worked with,
pretty much everyone I've ever known, But it's purely cosmetic optics.
It's good and it'll get fans more involved, and that's
always a good thing financially too, but it's not a
(08:46):
cure all any hoodles eight three, three, four one two WXDX.
Let's go to a Darian Darien. You're on with Mark.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Supervenius. What up?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
I just have some questions. I'm curious, though, what the
everyday fan has to expect with the new ownership. And
I'm curious what impact the new ownership would have on
the front office.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Well, I mean, I don't know what expect what to
expect in terms of their day to day impact. How
would anybody know that they've never owned a professional sports
team before outside of an East Coast Hockey League team,
the Florida ever Blades, who did win, but that means nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
This isn't wheeling. Like I said.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
A moment ago, I'm curious myself as to how it
input impacts management. Kyle Dubas I think has five years
left on his deal, so I wouldn't think he's going anywhere,
nor would the new owner see the need to not
want him to be the GM. I think he's done
a real good job. But rebuilding has to go at
its own pace. It has to be very organic, and
(09:48):
maybe they'll want to accelerate the process, which would not
be good. And it also worries me that Sid's agent
Pat Posson. He had a hot burst about we need
to win now for SID, and may they get in
ownership's ear and and and and forced like money to
be spent on old guys who will only set back
the rebuilding just to get SID a playoff series. I
(10:10):
think that would be just an egregious error.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Honestly, I have the same fear as Mark. I just
don't want to rush the rebuild yet.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I have a lot of fears about this sale, not
least that they had to go out and find more
money to do it after it fell apart.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Once, let's go to Denny. Denny, you're all in double.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
M Hey, Mark, I guess I just wanted to ask.
I agree with you about Mario has got to be
part of this somehow. What role could he play?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Did you listen to a word? I said? Did you
listen to a word? I said?
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The role he would play is to be at games
once in a while and be seen what you wanted
to be GM, you want to be coach?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I mean, what do you expect?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I thought something a title like, you know, special advisor
to the Hoffmann Group.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, that's cosmetic, Like do you want him to do
a job. But like, what, what do you want to
have him do?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I put him in the overspoof and advise the Hoffmin group.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
On He doesn't want to do that. He sold the team.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
If he still wanted to do that, he would not
have sold the team.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
What don't you dumb mfors understand?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Well, then what just you just want him to come
to gamespoo.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes not maybe his own boxes he still does occasionally.
I want him to be affiliated with the team, to
be close to the team, to be part of what's
going on on a peripheral level, because that's all he
wants to I don't understand what you expect. I mean,
for for F's sake, if he wanted to do something,
(11:58):
he would not have sold the team. He just wants
the team to show him the respect he's due, which
the FSD did not do. That is at a minimum,
and if that happens, everything else is gravy, you know
what I mean? Nothing else matters but that for them
to show him his due respect and for him to
be involved on whatever level he wants. But it is
(12:21):
not to advise them on how to run the team,
or how to assemble the team or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Let's go to our good friend the Hebrew ham or Hammer.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
Yuck Shamash, Hey yuk shamash, Hey Mark, this group, this
Offfman group. Only a month or two or three ago,
they didn't have enough capital to make the purchase. That's
what I've been Does that worry you?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, I've said that a couple times since we opened
discussion on it. I was told the deal was dead
a month ago, and it was, and then they went
on got more money. They're reportedly worth two billion. They
paid over one point seven billion for the team.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I don't know. I just don't like hearing that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
I hope I'm wrong, but I mean it seems sketchy
and we should not forget that f SG is a
professional sports ownership group.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's what they do. These guys are rookies.
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Yeah, I don't like it either. It seems it seems
real Schuestring.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Hey, last I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I don't hate it.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I just think there's something there that is open to question.
Speaker 7 (13:33):
Yeah, I think the.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
Term is hinky, but hey, you keep calling them the
ever Blades. I believe the term is ever Blades with
a G.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
That's the proper term.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Right, But the hockey team they have blades on their skates,
hence ever blades.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That's your cue way.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Let's go real quick to uh sherm sherman with double M.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Hey uh, I just want to make a quick commented A.
I'm happy for Mario to get out of it because
he you know, he went bankruptcy twice and he gave
his whole life to the team, So I'm happy to Mario.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Never Mario never went bankrupt. Well that's what was re married.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
No, no, it's not been reported, you freaking jackass. Mario's
never gone bankrupt. He rescued the Dame from bankruptcy. You
stupid idiots. You're like everybody else talking about this. You
can't get anything right. Shut the freak up. Never call again.
One oh five ninety X.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
It's The Woody Show weekday morning, six to ten.
Speaker 7 (14:36):
So it's that Tommy year Agan, isn't it. It's Bonnie
Diver And yeah, the holidays are here and it's a
crazy time. But you know what the bottom line about
what the holidays are all about connecting with your family, right,
And sometimes it's really hard because we're all over the place.
My last living aunt, Aunt Cookie, lives in Cleveland. She's
ninety years old. She's slowing down a little bit, but
(14:58):
it's really important for us to connect up with her,
and especially during the holidays.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Now.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
AT and T has been doing some really nice things
to try to help out. They're offering digital literacy workshops
that help older adults learn how to use technology to
do things most of us take for granted, like video
conferencing and sharing photos. AT and T is not just
a tech provider, but a community partner, and it's helping
to make our holidays a little less stressful, a little
(15:25):
more joyful, and especially for older adults. Thank you AT
and T for bringing us closer together and happy holidays.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You guys, connecting changes everything. AT and T super genius,
Mark Matt, how you doing good? Mace is always a
component of any nice date. Thank you for making my day.
Yeah what you said the exit one oh five nine.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Joining me not live from Ottawa where it's a tough
place to do that. He covers the Penguins with the
Athletic Keys. Josh Joey, Josh, you wrote about the sale
from FSG to the Hoffman Group. To be honest, I'm
a bit worried the Hoffman Group isn't experienced sports owners,
and they seem a bit undercapitalized.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Oh yeah, Mark, I think the money is the biggest concern,
and understandably so for all that, I don't think people
felt a strong emotional connection with Fenway. The one good
thing about Fenway was they had really, really deep pockets
and with that come stability. The Hoffman family, mean, listened,
They've been trying to buy the Penguins for months and
(16:28):
from I've from what I've been told that the biggest
hold up was simply that they didn't have enough cash
up front to make the sale go through.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Well, Josh, I was told the deal was dead, but
since then they went out and raised more money.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Right, so, you know, that's great that they're enthusiastic, but
I certainly worry about the finances. It kind of made
me think of Howard Baldwin way back when, who I
think had a lot of good intentions but didn't really
have the money to keep the early nineties Penguins together
and ultimately could not. And listen, I mean, they just
(17:02):
spent an enormous amount of money for the Penguins and
it's not like the Penguins are profitable right now. There's
a lot of empty seats that they're not really making
a ton of money as it is. So it's you now, listen.
I've not heard anything bad about these people at all.
I'm sure their intentions are good, but just financially, Yeah,
I think the fact.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Josh, the Penguins cost one point seven bill, the Google
machine says the Hoppin Group's worth two billion. Those two
figures are a bit too close for my comfort. It
just just seems shaky. And we didn't realize Bob Nutting
was Bob Nutting until he came in and started being
Bob Nutting.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
No, exactly, that's right. So no, I mean there are
legitimate questions. I think that need could be asked. And
like I said, I mean Fenway, for all I wrote
in my article yesterday they were very corporate and that
a lot of people in Pittsburgh didn't love that that
they're not the city. No, and I don't think they tried.
I don't think that's how they do business. But they
(18:02):
also are worth like fifteen billion dollars or something to
that effect. So you never had to worry about the
electric bill not being paid that month with Fenway if
they wanted to spend even though the Penguins don't spend
to the cap right now. Kyle Dubas had complete authority
to spend to the cap if he wanted to. He
just didn't think it was in the Penguin's best interest
right now because he didn't want to tie himself up
(18:23):
a couple of years from now, which I think is smart.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
You clear your roster and you potentially slow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
The rebuild exactly so, And there's so many issues now
that come up. I mean, listen, these people don't have
as much money as spend way. I would imagine they'll
want to start making money on the Penguins right away.
So does that mean they're going to like the Dubas
rebuild plan on how long it might take?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Worries me is that pat Poisson, Said's agent, gets in
Hoffman's ear and says, we need to win right now
for sid don't you want to win right now? And
then it alters the pace of the rebuilding.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Could And that's why so much of the Penguin's fortunes
to me go back to Kyle Dubas because he has
so much power here, but he still deals with the
pressure of pat Erson in his year in the Crosby situation,
and a lot of people say, a screw that, you
got to just worry about the rebuild, but you know
it's not that easy when you're dealing with a living
(19:20):
legend on your roster. That there is a lot to
consider for DUBIS and whoever the owner is is interesting
because hey, that's Kyle. Dubas is one boss, and I
know that Fenway gave him free reign basically to do
whatever he wanted. They were about his hands off as
it could get. I'm fascinated to see how the Hoffmann
family will approach this.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I thought, FST you gotta bum wrap.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean, they mangled in situation with Mario and that's unforgivable.
I didn't like that they re upped Malkin of the Tang,
but the fans wanted that, so again, I can't criticize
FSD too much. Now, the big question everybody's talking about
is Mario. I want Mario back. He's the reason we're
all here. It has to happen, but it won't expedite
(20:02):
winning or affect the hockey at all. He never was
involved in hockey ops. I think he had a phony
asked title at one point, like Director of Hockey ops
like I can recall one time for sure when he
was involved with the move, and that was the acquisition
of Host.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Eight, right, that's where you know he gave it the
green light very enthusiastically. But no, I called Fenway hands off,
but that's nothing on Mario, who was the ultimate hands
off owner. Mario's genius as an owner was two different things.
He knew the right people to hire, and he knew
he had to be around enough that his presence was felt.
(20:40):
And he understood what his presence did the people that
made people work harder. And that's what you need.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Now, you need that presence if that's what he.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Wants, Yes, yeah, And I think that was the one friend.
Fenway didn't even have a person living in Pittsburgh, which
I never thought was a great look and never made
it look like they took the penguins that Seriously, I
don't think Fenway did anything wrong by the way. They
weren't bad owners at all. But you know, Mario had listen.
Mario was Mario, so he was always going to have
an impact that nobody else in Pittsburgh in half. But
(21:08):
I will say this, if I'm the Hoffman family, he's
literally the first phone call at make if PR means anything,
No question, PR means anything at all. Having him around.
He is the Penguins. There's never been an athlete more
synonymous with the franchise in him, so to have him
around can only help him.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Mario rallies the fans just by showing up once in
the while. But it's what he wants to do. And
Fenway didn't mangle with him, and you know it was
on them to repair the chasm, and as it is
with Hoffman right now, but it won't mean winning quicker.
People are out there acting misrepresenting what he did during
his ownership. If he wanted to run the team, Josh,
(21:47):
he would never have sold it correct.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Well, yeah, I assure you. Mario was not Jerry Jones.
He was not sitting around the draft table figuring out
what they were going to do. That that was never
his thing. As he let David Morehouse run the business
side and he let Ray Shiro or Jim Brutherford or
whoever run the hockey team. He had very little influency.
(22:10):
He always let them spend to the cap and he
just showed up and was Mario. And you know he
would show up to some meetings and do what he
had to do, But anybody who thinks he had any
real influence on the hockey decisions is very sadly mistaken.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
And by the way, Mario, who has been at the
home games recently with Sid near his record, but he
is not an outaw with tonight. So I assume if
Sid breaks the record on the road, Mario will be
there at the next home game to help celebrate. We're
talking to Josh Owey of the Athletic here on one
oh five nine the X Josh turning Moore current. Are
these Penguins ever going to win another game? And what
(22:45):
has taught the most wrong in this this losing streak?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Well, I suspect to win another game at some point,
although I will tell you that boy, I was thinking
back to all of my years on the beat, and
I don't recall writing about many wins in Ottawa. They
do not play well in this building almost never, for
whatever reason. And Archer, she loves, is between the pipes
to night. He's lost nine of his last ten starts.
(23:11):
So it sounds a little ominous on the surface, and
I don't want to go to the opera.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
It sounds all the way through.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I feel like the foul playing pretty much.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I can tell you that their biggest problem in the
last two weeks has been protecting leads. You already know that,
but to break it down a little further, just the
lack of any situational hockey, which is something that has
plagued them for years. It's really really weird. It's ugly
head to me in recent games, and it's just an
enormous problem. I don't know if it's because there's people
(23:45):
out of the lineup. Not only do they miss have
Anny Malkin, who's missed six games in her own they've
lost all six. I don't think that's completely a coincidence,
But I think a guy like Blake Lazada out of
the lineup has been a really big deal. He's one
of the guys who plays like an adult when you
have a lead in the third period. They don't have
enough with that right now. So just the general lack
of situational hockey, Shooting the puck over the glass when
(24:06):
you're already shorthanded, just kind of those kinds of mistakes
are just killing them. Other than the Edmonton game, I
don't think they've been overwhelmed or overmatched. Now that's what
happened against Edmonton, but I don't think that's been the
case in these other games. That's really self inflicted.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well, the trickle down from Geno and Lozatviiano has been
a real bad bottom six. And I don't think Hughes
has covered himself in glory here either. I think he's
had a really weak stretch, and part of it is
he trusts the bad veterans.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Over the kids.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Like at the end of the San Jose game, he
has Hazy in that line out there, those bunch of
bumps out there protecting the lead against Celebriny and Smith. Now,
I understand if Sid's not you know, if Sid's winded
that line, somebody's gonna go out there.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But why do not let the kids try it?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
See if our kids can beat their kids and get
them that experience. Because I kept getting told this year
was about developmental and I see that slipping away.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Well. I was talking with somebody in the organization yesterday
who said to me, you know, why is Kevin Hayes
and Danton Heinen in the bottom six when Tristan Brose
is right there for you and he's ready to play.
And it's a valid question. Dan muses here for people
like Tristan Bros. He specializes in developing guys in their
teens in early twenties and the good NHL players. And
(25:24):
you watch Hayes and Heinen. Not to pick on those two,
but you watch those.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
You know, I'm going to stink.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And Heinen has easily moved down to wil because he's
been there before.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yes, yes, just the lack of intensity, the lack of
speed they play with, frankly, the lack of defensive acumen
at times as well. It's hurting the Penguins right now.
There's no question about that.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
I know.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
There's only so many guys and books where you don't
want to bring the whole cavalry. At the exact same time,
you got a couple of guys down there that you know,
Bros and Avery Hayes. Those are literally guys who are
supposed to become at bottom six NHL players, that's the projection,
and they're thriving in Wilkesbury and it's turning the Penguins
right now and.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
They're losing that kid energy.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, they still have Kendall and McGroarty in there,
Coyvid and some nights, but they mangled Brudick Brunig's played
like a handful of games in the past eight weeks
and that's stupid.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
They should have sent them back to junior.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And they've just got blinded by having that good start
and being a playoff contention, and it's like they want
to scratch out that eighth seed, which shouldn't be important
at all.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Well, and there's nothing wrong with making the playoffs this season,
but I think one thing that people have missed like
this isn't as young of a team as people think,
and other than Kendall, for most of the season, it
hasn't been young players really making a difference. It's been
the old guys like Malcolm and Carlson playing much better
than the year before, which is fine. Now, Kendall's been wonderful,
(26:54):
and I think right now, really if you look at
this losing streak, I would suggest that Kendall and Rutger
McGroarty have been two of their five best players. They've
actually been really good. You feel good about them when
those two were on the ice, which makes you wonder
if maybe you shouldn't bring a couple of more old
guys or younger guys up rather, especially Mark with this schedule.
They are playing every other day now with his Olympic
(27:15):
condemned schedule. That's not great for older players. You need
young players in the lineup right now. With the schedule
it's as busy, they probably don't have enough of them.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
What's your first take on Stu Skinner and Bright Kulak?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Boy, it's hard to gauge Skinner after a game against
the Oilers. I don't think many goalies would have done
better when you've got five on threes all night against
that team. He's not a great athlete Skinner.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You can see that just from watching him in practice.
He's a big guy. He's not somebody who's gonna move
side to side the way even a Tristan Jari would
was a pretty good athlete. So against a team like
the Oilers, probably a tough matchup. We'll see Kulak. He
took the one bad penalty on the at the lay
of game. I think he's okay though. I think he's
an upgrade over Ryan Graves. He's a guy who can
(28:02):
really skate, who's got a lot of experience, so he's better.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Than what they had. Put it that way, where does
this go from here?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I don't see them as a playoff team yet because
of the magic of the loser point, they are just
a couple of points out. They have this either the
fewest or second fewest losses. I haven't seen the update
in regulation in the Eastern Conference. It is just a
weird situation that management and coaching could interpret so many ways,
and my fear is they'll interpret it the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
It's weird. They also have one of the fewest amount
of wins in the Eastern Conference because all they do
is lose an extra time. I wouldn't exclude them from
the playoff race by any stretch. I will say this,
I think the next week is really crucial and we're
going to learn a lot. The schedule's not easy. Three
of their next four games are in Ottawa and Montreal
(28:55):
and in Toronto, three places they historically do not play well.
If they go into the holiday break, you know, having
lost nine out of ten or ten in a row,
which is possible, then at that point you know it's
going to feel like a full on collapse, quite frankly,
So the quicker they can get it together and get
a couple of wins, the better they will be. I
(29:17):
will tell you. They don't feel like a rattled hockey
team in the locker room. They really don't. There was
like a lucy goosey attitude.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's bad. If they're not rattled by this, then they
just don't give a freak.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Well, I don't know. If it's sad. It's the young
guys who just they seem okay like they now maybe
I don't know what that means. That maybe they're happy
their dads are on the dad's trip and they're all
just in a good boot.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh, God death if I forgot about that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It is the dad's trip. Yes, so I believe they're
curling as we speak. In fact, so maybe that will
bring some good luck. I don't know. But and listen,
it's not like Ottawa's any good by the way.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
This isn't something and they're lost. Just sucks.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
They were supposed to be good by now and there. Yeah,
and they're not what I think, Josh, here's my prediction. Here,
here will be the time. Here's the time. I kind
of fear, and the new ownership puts even another potential
spin on it. I think if they're definitely out of
the playoffs at the deadline and Kyle does the right thing,
(30:17):
it will turn the season into an absolute excreman show.
I don't know what ownership wants or what they'll do.
I fear what Sid's agent will say. It's like the
best thing would have been if they would have lost
ten straight to start the season, because we all could
have girded our loins.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well. I mean, it's just a confusing season, isn't it.
And I don't envy Kyle do but I don't. But
the fact is, if they continue to stumble, if they're
eight points out of a playoff spot, when the deadline comes,
the right thing to do is to sell, whether Sid
likes it or whether Pepperson likes it or not. And
(30:55):
they've got a lot of very attractive players. And I
would now throw Eric Carlson into that, this mark that
a lot of playoff teams would want. Somebody will take
him the way.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And don't forget his contract was front loaded. You have
to take on his cap pit. But actual cash paid
out is diminishing. Is his contract years.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
And is in no? Oh no, they could and listen,
they have fifty three million in cap space next year.
They could even retain some of his money if they
got something really big in return, so listen, it could
turn in one of many directions for the Penguins. We
didn't expect them to play as well as they did
in the first six weeks, but now all of a sudden,
they're looking like the team we thought they might be.
And that becomes a real problem because you're not going
(31:36):
to get some top five pick in the draft back season.
So who knows where it goes from here. But as
we always say, Mark, they are never boring. They're certainly
not boring right now.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Josh and enjoy Ottawa.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I know that's not possible, but give it a whirl
Montreal in a couple of nights, it'll be fine.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
There you go. That's Josh Joey. I'm Mark Madden.
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