October 20, 2025 • 37 mins
Tim Benz in for Mark as host. He keeps talking Steelers, and welcomes Matt Williamson on the show to talk more Steelers after their loss to Cincy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
The Steelers' loss in Cincinnati on Thursday was a sobering
reality check. In a lot of ways, there are obvious x's,
and those issues most pressing.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The defense is far from fixed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
After the way that that side of the ball performed
in consecutive weeks against the Vikings and Browns, it was
fair to start believing that the bad defensive hangover from
the end of twenty twenty four had started a lift.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, so much for that notion.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Against Cleveland, the Steelers defense totaled six sacks, sixteen quarterback hits,
and held the Browns to sixty five rushing yards.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In Dublin.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Against the Vikings, Teror Austin's unit forced two turnovers and
racked up six sacks, and those teams converted a total
of just fourteen of thirty eight attempts on third and
four downs. Unfortunately, against the Bengals, since he was eight
to fifteen on conversion downs, they held onto the ball
for thirty four minutes and thirty two seconds. The Steelers
didn't force any turnovers, they got to the immobile Joe
(01:11):
Flacco only twice in forty nine dropbacks, and on top
of all that, Cimcinnati's previously non existent run game, but
of one hundred and forty two yards in the ground
now offensively, the team did enough to win. The run
game was good. They managed to hit some chunk plays
on passes from Aaron Rodgers to DK Metcalf and tight
(01:32):
end Pat Fryermouth. The other three tight ends contributed with
one touchdown apiece, and Rogers wasn't sacked. But they got
tricky too often and failed specifically on their tush push
attempt and that busted flea flicker, not to mention that
they continue to get very little from wideouts besides DK
(01:52):
Metcalf beyond just these on field angles. Though this is
the bigger conversation, there's a slap in the face of
where this team is in the big.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Picture as opposed to last year.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
There was plenty of applause after the Steelers opened up
that big lead in the AFC North at four to
one after their victory over Cleveland two weeks ago. The
Bengals at two and four were the next best team. Now, though,
at four and two, whether we want to acknowledge it
or not, the Steelers have exactly the same record as
they did when Justin Fields was the quarterback. Furthermore, the
(02:32):
Steelers now have to play three straight teams in Green Bay,
Indy and the Chargers that are currently combined fourteen to
five and one and.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All in a playoff spot.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Overall, Rogers has definitely been a plus player at the
quarterback position. He's had a couple of really strong games
on his own four touchdowns a piece against the Bengals
in New York. He's operated at an efficient rate, helping
the Steelers to overcome their shortcomings in other areas. And
when the Steelers acquired Rogers, I always figured that the
(03:07):
quarterback play would be improved enough that this year's team
would never go through another five game losing streak as
it did to end last year. However, for as much
as we try to forget this because we just liked
burying Russell Wilson on the way out the door, the
guy did go six and one with a passer rating
(03:29):
of one oh three, so in his first seven starts
he only lost one game. At best, Rogers will be
five and two against teams either currently in a playoff
spot or in one a year ago, and that's going
to be very difficult to do given how many tough
(03:50):
contests the Steelers have when you get away from Cleveland
and you get away from Cincinnati, and they lost to
Cincinnati once already. Now it's more of a commentary on
the team that it is on Rogers himself. I'm not
coming here to Barry Rogers. In fact, I think he's
played quite well. But it's also a lot of evidence
that a moderate upgraded quarterback isn't this magic elixure we
(04:12):
pretended it was going to be in August. So far
in twenty twenty five, it feels like the Steelers are
being bullied by the receding tide of the division and
the rest of the conference for that matter. It feels
like that's what's making the Steelers look like they're going
to be better this year than the Steelers themselves getting better.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's not so much about the Steelers making.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Major strides forward on their own as it is about
the rest of the conference and the division stinking. That's
counter to what we've been trying to talk ourselves into
as recently as a week ago when they'd beaten the
Browns and it looked like everything was coming together. Now,
Rogers said after that game against the Bengals, let me
see if I can find the quote here exactly he
(04:57):
said against the Packers. That's my former team. I'm not
ride the roller coaster. I know Mike Tomlin is in.
Hopefully you guys mean the media will follow suit. Well, sorry, Aaron,
this is Pittsburgh, these are the Steelers. Every year is
a roller coaster to some degree, and so far this
ride feels very similar to the one we went on
(05:17):
last year, more similar than anybody wants to admit, and
more similar than anybody else is putting into that frame
of reference. The record is the same as the team
that was led by Justin Fields a year ago. Your
record isn't going to be quite as good as what
Russell Wilson's was to start his Steelers career, and the
team still went into the into a hole at the
(05:38):
end of the season. So hopefully this roller coaster ride
doesn't come off the rails again in December and January,
as it so often has over the last eight seasons
for this team without a playoff victory eight three, three, four, one, two,
ninety nine, thirty nine. Those are the numbers to call
if you want to talk about the state of the
(05:58):
Steelers coming off there, which, by the way, also featured
the Packers winning. They're up next for the Steelers and
a game between the Chargers and the Colts where if
you saw it, you had to be thinking to yourself,
how are they supposed to stop these two teams? Daniel
Jones looks reincarnated in Indianapolis. The Chargers got very little
(06:19):
out of their top two wide receivers, and Justin Herbert
just went back to the future with Keenan Allen and
somehow got the most out of Ronde Gadsden Junior at
tight end basically another wide receiver, but tight end nonetheless,
So what are the Steelers supposed to do with that?
Even if the Chargers aren't playing well, like I'm worried
(06:40):
about enough Johnston and Maconkey when they get out there
to play those guys, and now they got two other
guys to throw two and that's to say nothing of
the first two games between now and then.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So I'm gonna boil this down and make it very simple.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'll just ask a very simple question to open up
the three o'clock hour and have you digest it. And
that is coming out of this mini by knowing what
you know about this block of three games against the
next three opponents. What's the Steelers' record in the next
three games? What do they do against the Packers, Colts,
(07:14):
and Chargers. I'm gonna say one and two. What do
you say? Eight three, three, four one two ninety nine
thirty nine. I actually think they beat Green Bay. And
that might sound surprising based on everything that I just said,
But this lines up perfectly, doesn't it. This is exactly
(07:35):
what Tomlins Steeler teams do, don't they. They disappoint us
when they're at their peak. They get to a certain
height where it looks like they've really rounded the corner,
and then they just pull the plug in themselves with
some inexplicable loss, and we say, well, they're back to
being the Steelers again. We rip them for a week,
and then everybody in the I Told you So department
comes out eight days later after the Steelers pull off
(07:57):
a win we're not expecting to see. I expect them
to beat Green Bay. I think they'll beat the Packers.
I think that because it's a primetime game against an
NFC team. The Aaron Rodgers storyline, which I don't think
should be as much of a storyline as it is
because of what the Steelers just did, to themselves. I
(08:18):
think for all those reasons, the Steelers win and bounce
back this week because this is what they do. But
then the next two weeks I think are very much
up for grabs. We've seen the coaching issue between Tomlin
and Steichen, We've seen what the Steelers struggle with when
it comes to dealing with multiple weapons at wide receiver,
(08:39):
which the LA Chargers have. So my hunch is to
say one and two. I think they beat the Packers
and split the next two in what order.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I wouldn't be stunned if they walk away to and
one again, because this is what the Steelers do. But
I'll underscore that point again. They've got what I think
seven games left against teams that are either currently in
a playoff spot or were a season ago. That's not
small time for this team that has as many holes
in it as it does. Let's go to Phil calling
(09:14):
from his phone on the car. Go ahead, Phil, you're
on one to five nine the XS.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Hey, Kim, what man?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What's happening?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So I think the ceiling is one in two, which
is crazy to say, but it would be very steelersy
to go too and one and then lose that three
game stretch.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, they could do that too, because again, this is
the kind of time of year where the Steelers peak
and as send, they're always very good in October in November.
This is usually the time where the defense coalesces with
the offense before the defense gets run down, tired, battered
by injury and fades. That's been the biggest reason why
(09:54):
they've had these collapses on the back half of seasons,
pretty much going back to I'm not even going to
say Ben Roethlisberger's injury because it goes back the year
before that when they went from seven to to one
to out of the playoffs. The defense fades, the offense
is usually buoyed by the defense can't keep it up anymore,
and they wind up as a wild card struggling to
(10:14):
get into the six or seven seed or clinging on
to a moderate division title as they did, say in
twenty twenty, or when they uh, yeah that was the
end they lost the Browns. So like, this is usually
the time of year where everything's together and they do
great in October and November. So maybe that's what needs
to happen and what will happen against these three good
teams out of division. But you're right, then what happens
(10:37):
after that? They drop another divisional game? We're not expecting
the Ravens have gotten better, the Ravens have gotten healthier.
Nip them when we've written them off. I could totally
see it, appreciate it eight three, three, four one two
ninety nine thirty nine. You could tweet me at Tim
Ben's PGH as well. Matt Williamson coming up a little
bit later on in this hour, I want to get
(10:59):
to something about the officiating that cropped up yesterday. We'll
get to Kenny Pickett's debut with the Raiders, George Pickens
and what he did for the Dallas Cowboys yesterday, Justin
Field's getting benched.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
All that. More than the three o'clock hour, This is
one o five nine the X the Spirits Summer News.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
To join us for the Xers Halloween.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Crews on Thursday, October thirtieth.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
The cup sets sale at eight pm with live music
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and fifty nine cents from every ticket sold goes to
the Mariellamuth Foundation. Jeor Crew for this twenty one hoar
older event and dressing your Halloween best.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
To score prizes. All Night Fuck.
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Tickets are on sale now at Gateway clipper dot com.
The Exes Halloway cru on the Gateway Clipper sponsored by
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Speaker 2 (12:01):
iHeartRadio Alter presented by Capitol Law on Saturday, January seventeenth.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
In this world, unless, of course, they're good enough to
make the NFL the.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Ex A one oh five nine, still going back to
the trifecta that Tommy Radio rolled out there before the
top of the hour, and we can open this up
for discussion two.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Obviously we're talking about the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
If you missed the question that I pose to open
up the show, it's a very simple one, and we
can have a very simple back and forth because it's
a layered response and the question is simple, but the
answer is complex, and that is what are they going
to be three weeks from now? What are they going
to be when they play these three non divisional foes,
all of whom are currently in playoff spots? And how
much was your mind changed by what you saw against
(12:51):
the Bengals. I say that the Steelers is gonna be
one and two at the end of this, I think
they beat the Packers my hunt right now, as they
lose the next two, but I could be convinced that
they might go out to LA and win. That could happen. Yes,
I think that could happen. But right now, if you
made me pick, I'm gonna say one in two.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Eight three to three four one two ninety nine thirty nine.
But because there is a Game seven tonight between the
Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners, and what a series
that's been so far, Tom for his trifecta said, top
three Pittsburgh Sports Game seven wins, top three Pittsburgh Sports
(13:35):
Game seven defeats, and clearly the Sid Bream and David
Wollek losses are one in two. I would put the
Islanders coming back from a three to nothing deficit as
third on that list, in front of the Fitzgerald goal
for the Panthers against the Penguins in ninety six. But
(13:57):
there is plenty of room for debate there, and it
is kind of funny. I'll reiterate what I said before
because I was just going back and doing some reading,
because I went down the nostalgia rabbit hole. Here the
ninety one loss at three Rivers Stadium for the Pirates
before Sid bream ever happened. What a gut punch that was,
(14:19):
and it's just never talked about. It's just remember the
Pirates in that series were up three to two coming
back home and they didn't score.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
They didn't score like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Mike Sullivan tried to get a goal with the Rangers
at MSG. They didn't score for two games. They got
shut out. Their last run in that series was inning
five of Game five that they won one to nothing
behind Zane Smith, and then they lost one to nothing
in Game six, and they lost four to nothing in
(14:53):
Game seven.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Like if that just goes to show how.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Monumentally franchise turning and mind altering that defeat the next
year with Sid Breeve and Francisco Cabrera was that you
could have that kind of collapse over the course of
two and a half baseball games, to lose a series
that you were in control of coming back home, and
no one talks about it ever. Everybody just talks about
(15:21):
ninety two. No one talks about ninety one. But that
was a gut punch and it was over right away
because the Pirates just stopped hitting, they couldn't touch Avery
Smoltz comes out. I take that back, Smolts didn't even
come out. It was the top of the first. They
scored three runs the top of the first, Brian Hunter homeward,
and the series was over. And he just sat there
(15:42):
for like the next three hours watching them makeouts and
practically never even get on base.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It was agonizing.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
It was water torture, and no one talks about it
because ninety two was that damn bad eight three, three,
four nine. The victory's list, I think, is someone's gonna
have to make a really really strong case to supplant
Masarowski's homer flurries save in Talbot's goals to win in
(16:12):
two thousand and nine and the seventy nine World Series,
the Washington games.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, but.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I don't know how you look at those and supplant
a World Series or Cup championship. Even the Tampa Bay
win with Roster, the overtime game with Kunitz, especially because
they had won a Cup somewhat recently, even going back
to two thousand and nine. They're great, They were great wins.
(16:42):
Those Washington victories in the Eastern Conference playoffs were incredibly memorable,
But there were still more rounds to go after that.
Those games, those moments won championships. So I don't know
how you can supplant any of those three despite the
memorable nature of those game sevens against the Capitals or
(17:07):
against the Lightning or the Senators, any of those during
the recent playoff runs, or even going back to the
nineties when they came back from what was a three
to one down against the Capitals and won in Game seven.
There So eight three three, four thirty nine, if you
want to talk about that, or if you just want
to talk about the baseball itself, because we introduced this
topic later in the show on Friday and really didn't
(17:31):
get too much into it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
But you know, some people grousing that.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The Dodgers are flexing their muscles, and you know this
is you buy a World Series.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, of course you buy World series.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Like if if you're not aware, why are you even
paying attention to baseball at all? If you're not aware
of that by this, did you just wake up and
realize that if you're the kind of person that's turned
off by money buying championships, I'm surprised you even care
to know that the Dodgers are in it, you know,
And like I said, when people were griping about how
much the Dodgers blew out the Brewers, that was not
(18:04):
an example of how money wins championships in baseball because
and market size. Because the Brewers did that within a
division that has the big spending Cardinals, maybe not this year,
but usually and the Cubs, and not only they win
that division, but they beat the Cubs of the playoffs.
So I don't want to hear that as a reason
why you're not watching baseball late. You know, if you're
(18:25):
a Pirates fan and you're so turned off by the
process of where the Pirates are economically, but you still
like the sport, I don't know why you're robbing yourself
of the ability to just like the sport when it's
being played well in the postseason and you see what
Showay did the other night, and you've got a really
good series on the American League side that's still going
to a Game seven this evening. But I did want
(18:49):
to get to one NFL item before we get to
Matt Williamson, because there's a lot of meat on the
bone with the Steelers. To get into a Matt the
officiating something about theating, and I mentioned this as a
related to the Steelers game and the interception for DK
Metcalf and Aaron Rodgers. And the problem that I had
(19:10):
with that not that the wrong call was made. The
right call was made, but the NFL has to look
at what happened on Thursday night and then look at
what happened in a very widely viewed game with the
Cowboys and Commanders. Tom Brady was on that cause the
Fox Game of the Week, and you had the play
(19:32):
develop along the sideline where Metcalf had the ball wrestled
away from him right and it turns into an interception.
The Bengals get the ball back, and no one made
a call on the field. No one made a call.
If there was one, we never saw it or it
was never said to us.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
They didn't show it.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
But all you heard was that upon conference it was
determined that it was an interception for Cincinnati. Well, the
conference was somebody speaking into the ear of the official
and there was no response. That was a one way conference.
That was a one way conversation that was coming from
New York. Because no one made a call in the field.
(20:13):
They were paralyzed by fear of getting the call wrong.
They didn't know what to do. So by that point,
what are you gonna do like throw the beanbag? Ten
minutes after it happened, like the official was about to
do it, changed his mind and just didn't make a
call at all. By contrast, you have what happened in
the game with Prescott when Dak was trying to escape
(20:34):
from a sack from Washington and one of the Washington
pass rushers got him around the shoulder pad, started spinning
him to the ground, and in the process of doing
that kind of forced his helmet off of him. So
it looked like it was a blow to the head
of the quarterback, which is an automatic fifteen yard penalty.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was not.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
He had gotten him around the shoulder pad and tackled
him to the ground. Blandino was on saying it shouldn't
be a penalty. Burkhart and Brady were saying it shouldn't
be a penalty. Those flags you're supposed to be allowed
to pick up now, and that's what the instant replay
in New York is supposed to fix, and they just
let it sit there. So in one game you've got
conference from New York interfering where it shouldn't because no
(21:20):
one had even made a call yet, And then you've
got one where there's clear ability for them to fix it,
and they didn't. And this is why no one trusts
the process, especially in the gambling era, where people think
everything is fixed the minute they lose their fifty dollars parlay.
This is why people don't trust the process, and they
think every time the chiefs get a call, it's rigged.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Because of tailor Swift. It's because of that because the.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Rest don't know how to follow their own rules, and
the league doesn't know how to follow their own rules.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
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Speaker 1 (22:21):
Matt Williams and joining us right now in the Mark
Madden Show. Tim bens In for Mark. Matt is brought
to us by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop shop dot
Steelers dot com. You can listen to Matt with Myself
and Shirtless Tom on Wednesday nights at Parksocial on Fox
Sports Pittsburgh nine seventy for countdown to Kickoff. You can
also listen on Steelers Nation Radio SNR during the drive
(22:44):
each and every day. Matt are pro and college scout
alum and an X and O extraordinary. So, Matt, let's
start first and foremost with what you saw against the
Cincinnati Bengals. For the Steelers. How come they couldn't cover
Higgins and Chase. I get it, they're good, but that
was ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
It was ridiculous. It's an embarrassing performance. They really did
nothing good on defense pretty much since the second quarter started.
I'm not going to speak for you, but I'm sure
like a lot of our listeners, you know, when early
in that game, I thought, man, the Steelers might blow
them out. You know, they're winning the line of scrimmage,
The defense is humming around, they look good. The offense
(23:25):
is destroying a bad defense, and then for whatever reason,
the second quarter started and everything on defense utterly fell apart.
And I think scheme has a lot to do with it.
By no means am I using this as an excuse,
but I hate Thursday night football, and I think the
road team often crumbles way earlier than they should That's
(23:46):
not an excuse because you got to play them, and
they're not the first team to go on the road
on a Thursday night. But they looked fatigued way earlier
than they should be. They made mental airs, they made
alignment airs, they made coaching mistakes, and frankly, the big
thing I said Friday was I can kind of live
with Chase and Higgins on so many quick hitting routes
(24:10):
putting up the numbers they did. Okay, Chase was the
best player on the field.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I think we lost Matt maybe we can try to
get him back, but where he was going with it,
I agree Chase was the best player on the field.
But at some point then you've got to change what
you're doing against Tim or at some point then you
got to change what you're doing against Higgins, or if
you're getting so much attention on those two guys, you
(24:40):
can't allow yourself to be beaten by Yoshivas, which they
were on that play. That Flacco was giddy about discussing
when he went on the Prime Video postgame show and said, well,
when they doubled those two guys, we were waiting for it,
we expected it, and then they hit Yoshivas over the
middle and got a huge gain. That's what you can't
(25:00):
do and what you have to do then if you're
gonna get torched in the secondary is you have to
apply pressure upfront. And they were unable to apply pressure upfront,
which is where I thought they should have an ability
to win, especially after what we saw against the Vikings
and the Browns. What we saw against the Vikings and
(25:20):
the Browns, I thought was a pass rush that had,
if not gotten fixed, found itself. But then against a
still I thought vulnerable Bengals offensive line, it didn't come through.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I think we got Matt back now.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So Matt, let's pick up where we left off what
you were talking about with Chase, and you were in
the middle of a thought of you could live with
it on those quick hitting routes, but and then we
lost you.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So what was the butt to that?
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Yeah, and I'm not sure how much you got, so
if I repeat myself, I apologize, But it's not Okay.
It was a terrible performance against Siggins and Chase. Okay,
but once in a while, Jordan scores fifty or sixty
points and it didn't matter who you put on Jordan,
he's still going to get his And I thought that
was Jamar Chase. I thought he was a special, special
(26:06):
player of that night, and it reminded the world that
he's one of the best receivers that's ever lived. Okay,
that's bad, but it's I get it. Sometimes people blow up,
and I definitely think the Steelers approach was First off,
I think that there's a misconception that they didn't make
any adjustments. Oh, they made a lot of adjustments. They
(26:27):
put every different player they possibly could on Chase, they
doubled them, they singled them, they played man, they played zone.
But what they didn't do was hardly play any press man.
And I didn't understand that approach because I'm sure they
went into that game saying we got to eliminate the
big play. I mean, we're going to score a lot
of points against the Bengals if we allow them to
(26:47):
have some long drives and complete a lot of passes,
so be it. Our defense will sack the quarterback, cause
more fumbles than our defense will make more big plays
than theirs in which didn't happen, and that's still a
the okay path to victory. But when the ball's coming
out in two point four seconds and you're still playing
off man coverage over and over, that makes little sense
(27:10):
to me. And what I was saying about, I can
kind of live with Chase and Higgins having huge nights,
but I can't couple that with awful run defense by
one of the worst running teams in the league.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Why did that happen?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Were they just losing upfront in individual battles Somewhat?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
They reverted again to being a very poor tackling team,
which was the first two weeks of the year, and
I thought that was rectified, and I'm going to keep
bringing up because I hate it so much. You do
see that a lot in Thursday night games. Again, that's
not okay, but you do across the league. I do
think it's really really hard on the players. But the
(27:49):
other thing that cap happening too was if you look
at just the I don't have eight to ten Chase
Brown run that were substantial. You know that were five
plus yards. They were running right at gaps that nobody
was aligned it. You know that there was no formational
(28:12):
answer for it. And if it wasn't for Deshaun Elliott
cleaned them up eight ten yards downfield, they would have
been much higher. I mean, Elliott played a whale of
a game, but he's making great run plays on the
third level, which say what you want about Flaco, and
it's the same for true with Rogers. They're always going
to get you in the right plays. I mean, if
(28:33):
there's a B gap that nobody's aligned in, they're going
to run it there. And the same thing was true
and Steers had the ball, you know, I mean, just
these smart veteran quarterbacks give you a big advantage from
the neck up and Flacco still has that.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Matt Williamson with us, and I agree with your assessment
and your characterization of the misread by some who are
saying they didn't make any adjustments. They made adjustments when
it came to coverage on trying to slow those guys down.
Let me ask you a slightly different version of that question, Matt,
did they make enough adjustments and good adjustments when it
came to their front seven in the pass rush, though, Well.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
One thing I don't understand and never will unless there's
an injury that I don't know about, is how do
you reduce her big snaps.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Especially when you said that you were going to go
in the other direction and give him more.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
Right, I mean, he's playing maybe better than anyone on
your defense. I mean he's rushing the passer as well
or better than everyone on your defense, including why so,
how on earth does that make any sense whatsoever? And
more Sawyer can't be the answer either, you know. I
mean I thought he had a rough game, and he's
(29:41):
clearly their fourth best edge guy, so I don't understand
that all in although we're seeing more Holcombe less Wilson,
I don't have a big problem with that. I did
notice and I'm going to do some research on it
on the splits, but I think their run defense when
Harmon was not on the field was noticeably worse than
(30:04):
when he was, And I don't have the numbers to
back that up, but it really really passes the sniff
test after watching the film, which is a testament to him.
But he's not going to play every snap, you know,
But overall, other than the Herbig situation, I can't be
super critical of their front seven personnel choices, but the
(30:26):
Herbig ones massive.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Up next Packers, Colts, Chargers right now, injuries notwithstanding, over
the next three weeks, what's their record in those three games.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
I think they're better than Chargers. I think they're better
than what they showed Thursday night, especially on defense. I
think the Colts are a real problem, a real problem.
So I think they split between Colts and Chargers. Give
me a couple of days to really dig into green Bay.
Tuesday's Stat's Day and there's so much emotion and all
(31:03):
the things I said about Thursday night. I'm such a
believer in betting and picking teams that have big rest advantages,
and the Steelers have one at home and the Rogers factor,
so that one's probably fifty fifty ishued to me.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think they beat Green Bay. I don't think that's
fifty to fifty that way. I think they beat Green Bay.
I think they lose the Colts, and I'm fifty to
fifty on the Chargers. I'll wait the two weeks and
the Chargers before I really formulate an opinion there, But
I feel pretty good about the other two suggestions.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And one thing that comes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
To mind, Matt, I'm wondering how you think they handle
the Micah Parsons part of this equation, because the easy,
low hanging fruit is to say, just do what you
did against Miles Garrett.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
That works, Yeah, will it?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Or am I oversimplifying that? And will they just ignore
it because they know what we know, and I know
that they know well they do that game for themselves.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Well, one thing I didn't understand from a Brown's perspective
is they lined up Garrett a very high percentage of
the time in the same spot, you know, against Broderick,
which I'm sure they wanted that matchup, even though it
didn't go their way. Parsons will move around definitely more,
and he'll even come up through the middle. And I
really like that Browns front outside of Garrett. But they
(32:19):
don't have a Rashaun Gary either Russia. Rashaan Gary is
a really really good hit at.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Four.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Parsons got there and now's really feasting. So there's another
threat on the other side that's more of a problem.
He's gonna get his I mean, he had three sacks
in this pass game, and he's healthy and he's heating up.
My hunch is they'll just do a lot like with
the Bengals did against Steelers pass rush and get it
out of Rogers' hands really quickly.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Before we go, Matt, I want to get your opinion
on something that Mike Decorsi, my colleague over at the
Trip Live Friday Football Show, and a guest here on
The Mark Madden Show when I was hosting last week.
He said that if you who really make him choose,
he would eschew the low hanging fruit again. Opinion that
(33:07):
the Steelers should go after a wide receiver at the
trade deadline and instead focus their attentions if they're gonna
make a deal on getting a safety. Would you do
that or do you think if there's an opinion that
really needs to be followed, it is get the wide
receiver before the deadline.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
What do you think that's funny? I haven't given a
safety much thought at all because I'm not a truck
cloork guy. I think Thornhill's good enough. I'm still intrigued
with Peppers, but I feel like we would have seen
more from him if we're going to by now and
I guess his logic I'm trying to speak for that
(33:47):
line of thinking is that less Ramsey at safety and
more Ramsey at corner, which means less Leigh at corner,
which I would be fine with. I might even play
Eccos ahead of Sleigh at this point too, which I'm
not trying to get away from the conversation. But a
rangey safety would certainly be of interest more of a
(34:07):
free than a strong because I think Elliott's great. I
still would pick the receiver over a safety, though well.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Part of the reason I would lean that way too
is we still can't get away from the what if
DK gets hurt?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Factor?
Speaker 6 (34:21):
Right, I mean everyone in the media, myself, you have
said that over a million times. That's not a new insight,
but it's still scary as can be.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I'll say this too, Matt.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't want to make this sound like I'm piling
on the Pickens trade, and a lot of people are
doing some hindsight is twenty twenty thinking on this, But look,
I mean like, we don't know that this would ever
have worked out this well for this long through seven
games as it has in Dallas with Pickens.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I can't make that presumption.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
I just know people in the building of all walks
of life are happy he's gone.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And leave it at that, but they don't have a
replacement for him. And I also know this, what we
saw against the Bank was the first true manifestation of
what we were told the tight end position would be.
Big day for Friarmuth. All four score touchdowns. That's what
it's supposed to look like. If that collective acts is
quote unquote the second wide receiver, so be it. But
(35:15):
that's not gonna happen every week. And I feel like
they look at Friarmuth now as like a specialist, like
a guy you play against zone teams or just whenever
you go to Cincinnati, because he riffs the Bengals all
the time.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
Yeah, he's your Bengal killer, right. I don't know what
they think of Friarmuth, but I mean it is odd.
The other thing that happened in this game was Wilson
Roman was clearly the second used wide receiver with Austin
being out. You know that we saw very little Miller
or Scornic, and he did some okay things. I mean,
I guess that's we're talking about on the draft today.
(35:48):
That's either by default. We can't stand Miller or Scornic
enough to put him out there, So let's try this Wilson, dude.
Or he's starting to get it. Maybe he's better. That
being said, I would trade a fifth round pick for.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
A receiver, Oh for sure I would too. Who's gonna
be the better quarterback on Sunday? Lover Rogers?
Speaker 6 (36:11):
Rogers? Yeah, I'm a love fan, you know. I mean,
I think he's got a really bright future, but he
does some dumb things here and there and can push
the envelope. I just think in a game like that,
I'm gonna trust Rogers more ninety it's above the neckloavel Matt.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Thanks to you Wednesday, all right, man, Take care. Matt
Williamson brought to us by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get
it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop
at shop dot Steelers dot com. Listen to him on
pregame with Shirtless Tom. Listen to him with Shirtless Tom
and Me Wednesday nights on Fox Sports Pittsburgh nine seventy
and on sn R during the drive each and every day.
All right, when we come back here on one O
(36:49):
five nine the X. The explanation from Aaron Glenn about
benching Justin Fields.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
It's a doozy. It's next on one o five nine
The X.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
It's The Woody Show weekday mornings at six. Yeah on
one oh five nine The X.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
Eighty four Lumber is Your
The Steelers' loss in Cincinnati on Thursday was a sobering
reality check. In a lot of ways, there are obvious x's,
and those issues most pressing.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The defense is far from fixed.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
After the way that that side of the ball performed
in consecutive weeks against the Vikings and Browns, it was
fair to start believing that the bad defensive hangover from
the end of twenty twenty four had started a lift.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, so much for that notion.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Against Cleveland, the Steelers defense totaled six sacks, sixteen quarterback hits,
and held the Browns to sixty five rushing yards.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
In Dublin.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Against the Vikings, Teror Austin's unit forced two turnovers and
racked up six sacks, and those teams converted a total
of just fourteen of thirty eight attempts on third and
four downs. Unfortunately, against the Bengals, since he was eight
to fifteen on conversion downs, they held onto the ball
for thirty four minutes and thirty two seconds. The Steelers
didn't force any turnovers, they got to the immobile Joe
(01:11):
Flacco only twice in forty nine dropbacks, and on top
of all that, Cimcinnati's previously non existent run game, but
of one hundred and forty two yards in the ground
now offensively, the team did enough to win. The run
game was good. They managed to hit some chunk plays
on passes from Aaron Rodgers to DK Metcalf and tight
(01:32):
end Pat Fryermouth. The other three tight ends contributed with
one touchdown apiece, and Rogers wasn't sacked. But they got
tricky too often and failed specifically on their tush push
attempt and that busted flea flicker, not to mention that
they continue to get very little from wideouts besides DK
(01:52):
Metcalf beyond just these on field angles. Though this is
the bigger conversation, there's a slap in the face of
where this team is in the big.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Picture as opposed to last year.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
There was plenty of applause after the Steelers opened up
that big lead in the AFC North at four to
one after their victory over Cleveland two weeks ago. The
Bengals at two and four were the next best team. Now, though,
at four and two, whether we want to acknowledge it
or not, the Steelers have exactly the same record as
they did when Justin Fields was the quarterback. Furthermore, the
(02:32):
Steelers now have to play three straight teams in Green Bay,
Indy and the Chargers that are currently combined fourteen to
five and one and.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All in a playoff spot.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Overall, Rogers has definitely been a plus player at the
quarterback position. He's had a couple of really strong games
on his own four touchdowns a piece against the Bengals
in New York. He's operated at an efficient rate, helping
the Steelers to overcome their shortcomings in other areas. And
when the Steelers acquired Rogers, I always figured that the
(03:07):
quarterback play would be improved enough that this year's team
would never go through another five game losing streak as
it did to end last year. However, for as much
as we try to forget this because we just liked
burying Russell Wilson on the way out the door, the
guy did go six and one with a passer rating
(03:29):
of one oh three, so in his first seven starts
he only lost one game. At best, Rogers will be
five and two against teams either currently in a playoff
spot or in one a year ago, and that's going
to be very difficult to do given how many tough
(03:50):
contests the Steelers have when you get away from Cleveland
and you get away from Cincinnati, and they lost to
Cincinnati once already. Now it's more of a commentary on
the team that it is on Rogers himself. I'm not
coming here to Barry Rogers. In fact, I think he's
played quite well. But it's also a lot of evidence
that a moderate upgraded quarterback isn't this magic elixure we
(04:12):
pretended it was going to be in August. So far
in twenty twenty five, it feels like the Steelers are
being bullied by the receding tide of the division and
the rest of the conference for that matter. It feels
like that's what's making the Steelers look like they're going
to be better this year than the Steelers themselves getting better.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's not so much about the Steelers making.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Major strides forward on their own as it is about
the rest of the conference and the division stinking. That's
counter to what we've been trying to talk ourselves into
as recently as a week ago when they'd beaten the
Browns and it looked like everything was coming together. Now,
Rogers said after that game against the Bengals, let me
see if I can find the quote here exactly he
(04:57):
said against the Packers. That's my former team. I'm not
ride the roller coaster. I know Mike Tomlin is in.
Hopefully you guys mean the media will follow suit. Well, sorry, Aaron,
this is Pittsburgh, these are the Steelers. Every year is
a roller coaster to some degree, and so far this
ride feels very similar to the one we went on
(05:17):
last year, more similar than anybody wants to admit, and
more similar than anybody else is putting into that frame
of reference. The record is the same as the team
that was led by Justin Fields a year ago. Your
record isn't going to be quite as good as what
Russell Wilson's was to start his Steelers career, and the
team still went into the into a hole at the
(05:38):
end of the season. So hopefully this roller coaster ride
doesn't come off the rails again in December and January,
as it so often has over the last eight seasons
for this team without a playoff victory eight three, three, four, one, two,
ninety nine, thirty nine. Those are the numbers to call
if you want to talk about the state of the
(05:58):
Steelers coming off there, which, by the way, also featured
the Packers winning. They're up next for the Steelers and
a game between the Chargers and the Colts where if
you saw it, you had to be thinking to yourself,
how are they supposed to stop these two teams? Daniel
Jones looks reincarnated in Indianapolis. The Chargers got very little
(06:19):
out of their top two wide receivers, and Justin Herbert
just went back to the future with Keenan Allen and
somehow got the most out of Ronde Gadsden Junior at
tight end basically another wide receiver, but tight end nonetheless,
So what are the Steelers supposed to do with that?
Even if the Chargers aren't playing well, like I'm worried
(06:40):
about enough Johnston and Maconkey when they get out there
to play those guys, and now they got two other
guys to throw two and that's to say nothing of
the first two games between now and then.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So I'm gonna boil this down and make it very simple.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'll just ask a very simple question to open up
the three o'clock hour and have you digest it. And
that is coming out of this mini by knowing what
you know about this block of three games against the
next three opponents. What's the Steelers' record in the next
three games? What do they do against the Packers, Colts,
(07:14):
and Chargers. I'm gonna say one and two. What do
you say? Eight three, three, four one two ninety nine
thirty nine. I actually think they beat Green Bay. And
that might sound surprising based on everything that I just said,
But this lines up perfectly, doesn't it. This is exactly
(07:35):
what Tomlins Steeler teams do, don't they. They disappoint us
when they're at their peak. They get to a certain
height where it looks like they've really rounded the corner,
and then they just pull the plug in themselves with
some inexplicable loss, and we say, well, they're back to
being the Steelers again. We rip them for a week,
and then everybody in the I Told you So department
comes out eight days later after the Steelers pull off
(07:57):
a win we're not expecting to see. I expect them
to beat Green Bay. I think they'll beat the Packers.
I think that because it's a primetime game against an
NFC team. The Aaron Rodgers storyline, which I don't think
should be as much of a storyline as it is
because of what the Steelers just did, to themselves. I
(08:18):
think for all those reasons, the Steelers win and bounce
back this week because this is what they do. But
then the next two weeks I think are very much
up for grabs. We've seen the coaching issue between Tomlin
and Steichen, We've seen what the Steelers struggle with when
it comes to dealing with multiple weapons at wide receiver,
(08:39):
which the LA Chargers have. So my hunch is to
say one and two. I think they beat the Packers
and split the next two in what order.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I wouldn't be stunned if they walk away to and
one again, because this is what the Steelers do. But
I'll underscore that point again. They've got what I think
seven games left against teams that are either currently in
a playoff spot or were a season ago. That's not
small time for this team that has as many holes
in it as it does. Let's go to Phil calling
(09:14):
from his phone on the car. Go ahead, Phil, you're
on one to five nine the XS.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Hey, Kim, what man?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
What's happening?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So I think the ceiling is one in two, which
is crazy to say, but it would be very steelersy
to go too and one and then lose that three
game stretch.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, they could do that too, because again, this is
the kind of time of year where the Steelers peak
and as send, they're always very good in October in November.
This is usually the time where the defense coalesces with
the offense before the defense gets run down, tired, battered
by injury and fades. That's been the biggest reason why
(09:54):
they've had these collapses on the back half of seasons,
pretty much going back to I'm not even going to
say Ben Roethlisberger's injury because it goes back the year
before that when they went from seven to to one
to out of the playoffs. The defense fades, the offense
is usually buoyed by the defense can't keep it up anymore,
and they wind up as a wild card struggling to
(10:14):
get into the six or seven seed or clinging on
to a moderate division title as they did, say in
twenty twenty, or when they uh, yeah that was the
end they lost the Browns. So like, this is usually
the time of year where everything's together and they do
great in October and November. So maybe that's what needs
to happen and what will happen against these three good
teams out of division. But you're right, then what happens
(10:37):
after that? They drop another divisional game? We're not expecting
the Ravens have gotten better, the Ravens have gotten healthier.
Nip them when we've written them off. I could totally
see it, appreciate it eight three, three, four one two
ninety nine thirty nine. You could tweet me at Tim
Ben's PGH as well. Matt Williamson coming up a little
bit later on in this hour, I want to get
(10:59):
to something about the officiating that cropped up yesterday. We'll
get to Kenny Pickett's debut with the Raiders, George Pickens
and what he did for the Dallas Cowboys yesterday, Justin
Field's getting benched.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
All that. More than the three o'clock hour, This is
one o five nine the X the Spirits Summer News.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
To join us for the Xers Halloween.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Crews on Thursday, October thirtieth.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
The cup sets sale at eight pm with live music
from the Clinton's playing all your nineties favorites. Ten dollars
and fifty nine cents from every ticket sold goes to
the Mariellamuth Foundation. Jeor Crew for this twenty one hoar
older event and dressing your Halloween best.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
To score prizes. All Night Fuck.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Tickets are on sale now at Gateway clipper dot com.
The Exes Halloway cru on the Gateway Clipper sponsored by
Disaster Restoration Services. We'll see you October.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
iHeartRadio Alter presented by Capitol Law on Saturday, January seventeenth.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
In this world, unless, of course, they're good enough to
make the NFL the.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Ex A one oh five nine, still going back to
the trifecta that Tommy Radio rolled out there before the
top of the hour, and we can open this up
for discussion two.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Obviously we're talking about the Steelers.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
If you missed the question that I pose to open
up the show, it's a very simple one, and we
can have a very simple back and forth because it's
a layered response and the question is simple, but the
answer is complex, and that is what are they going
to be three weeks from now? What are they going
to be when they play these three non divisional foes,
all of whom are currently in playoff spots? And how
much was your mind changed by what you saw against
(12:51):
the Bengals. I say that the Steelers is gonna be
one and two at the end of this, I think
they beat the Packers my hunt right now, as they
lose the next two, but I could be convinced that
they might go out to LA and win. That could happen. Yes,
I think that could happen. But right now, if you
made me pick, I'm gonna say one in two.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Eight three to three four one two ninety nine thirty nine.
But because there is a Game seven tonight between the
Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners, and what a series
that's been so far, Tom for his trifecta said, top
three Pittsburgh Sports Game seven wins, top three Pittsburgh Sports
(13:35):
Game seven defeats, and clearly the Sid Bream and David
Wollek losses are one in two. I would put the
Islanders coming back from a three to nothing deficit as
third on that list, in front of the Fitzgerald goal
for the Panthers against the Penguins in ninety six. But
(13:57):
there is plenty of room for debate there, and it
is kind of funny. I'll reiterate what I said before
because I was just going back and doing some reading,
because I went down the nostalgia rabbit hole. Here the
ninety one loss at three Rivers Stadium for the Pirates
before Sid bream ever happened. What a gut punch that was,
(14:19):
and it's just never talked about. It's just remember the
Pirates in that series were up three to two coming
back home and they didn't score.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
They didn't score like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Mike Sullivan tried to get a goal with the Rangers
at MSG. They didn't score for two games. They got
shut out. Their last run in that series was inning
five of Game five that they won one to nothing
behind Zane Smith, and then they lost one to nothing
in Game six, and they lost four to nothing in
(14:53):
Game seven.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Like if that just goes to show how.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Monumentally franchise turning and mind altering that defeat the next
year with Sid Breeve and Francisco Cabrera was that you
could have that kind of collapse over the course of
two and a half baseball games, to lose a series
that you were in control of coming back home, and
no one talks about it ever. Everybody just talks about
(15:21):
ninety two. No one talks about ninety one. But that
was a gut punch and it was over right away
because the Pirates just stopped hitting, they couldn't touch Avery
Smoltz comes out. I take that back, Smolts didn't even
come out. It was the top of the first. They
scored three runs the top of the first, Brian Hunter homeward,
and the series was over. And he just sat there
(15:42):
for like the next three hours watching them makeouts and
practically never even get on base.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
It was agonizing.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
It was water torture, and no one talks about it
because ninety two was that damn bad eight three, three,
four nine. The victory's list, I think, is someone's gonna
have to make a really really strong case to supplant
Masarowski's homer flurries save in Talbot's goals to win in
(16:12):
two thousand and nine and the seventy nine World Series,
the Washington games.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, but.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I don't know how you look at those and supplant
a World Series or Cup championship. Even the Tampa Bay
win with Roster, the overtime game with Kunitz, especially because
they had won a Cup somewhat recently, even going back
to two thousand and nine. They're great, They were great wins.
(16:42):
Those Washington victories in the Eastern Conference playoffs were incredibly memorable,
But there were still more rounds to go after that.
Those games, those moments won championships. So I don't know
how you can supplant any of those three despite the
memorable nature of those game sevens against the Capitals or
(17:07):
against the Lightning or the Senators, any of those during
the recent playoff runs, or even going back to the
nineties when they came back from what was a three
to one down against the Capitals and won in Game seven.
There So eight three three, four thirty nine, if you
want to talk about that, or if you just want
to talk about the baseball itself, because we introduced this
topic later in the show on Friday and really didn't
(17:31):
get too much into it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
But you know, some people grousing that.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The Dodgers are flexing their muscles, and you know this
is you buy a World Series.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well, of course you buy World series.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Like if if you're not aware, why are you even
paying attention to baseball at all? If you're not aware
of that by this, did you just wake up and
realize that if you're the kind of person that's turned
off by money buying championships, I'm surprised you even care
to know that the Dodgers are in it, you know,
And like I said, when people were griping about how
much the Dodgers blew out the Brewers, that was not
(18:04):
an example of how money wins championships in baseball because
and market size. Because the Brewers did that within a
division that has the big spending Cardinals, maybe not this year,
but usually and the Cubs, and not only they win
that division, but they beat the Cubs of the playoffs.
So I don't want to hear that as a reason
why you're not watching baseball late. You know, if you're
(18:25):
a Pirates fan and you're so turned off by the
process of where the Pirates are economically, but you still
like the sport, I don't know why you're robbing yourself
of the ability to just like the sport when it's
being played well in the postseason and you see what
Showay did the other night, and you've got a really
good series on the American League side that's still going
to a Game seven this evening. But I did want
(18:49):
to get to one NFL item before we get to
Matt Williamson, because there's a lot of meat on the
bone with the Steelers. To get into a Matt the
officiating something about theating, and I mentioned this as a
related to the Steelers game and the interception for DK
Metcalf and Aaron Rodgers. And the problem that I had
(19:10):
with that not that the wrong call was made. The
right call was made, but the NFL has to look
at what happened on Thursday night and then look at
what happened in a very widely viewed game with the
Cowboys and Commanders. Tom Brady was on that cause the
Fox Game of the Week, and you had the play
(19:32):
develop along the sideline where Metcalf had the ball wrestled
away from him right and it turns into an interception.
The Bengals get the ball back, and no one made
a call on the field. No one made a call.
If there was one, we never saw it or it
was never said to us.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
They didn't show it.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
But all you heard was that upon conference it was
determined that it was an interception for Cincinnati. Well, the
conference was somebody speaking into the ear of the official
and there was no response. That was a one way conference.
That was a one way conversation that was coming from
New York. Because no one made a call in the field.
(20:13):
They were paralyzed by fear of getting the call wrong.
They didn't know what to do. So by that point,
what are you gonna do like throw the beanbag? Ten
minutes after it happened, like the official was about to
do it, changed his mind and just didn't make a
call at all. By contrast, you have what happened in
the game with Prescott when Dak was trying to escape
(20:34):
from a sack from Washington and one of the Washington
pass rushers got him around the shoulder pad, started spinning
him to the ground, and in the process of doing
that kind of forced his helmet off of him. So
it looked like it was a blow to the head
of the quarterback, which is an automatic fifteen yard penalty.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
It was not.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
He had gotten him around the shoulder pad and tackled
him to the ground. Blandino was on saying it shouldn't
be a penalty. Burkhart and Brady were saying it shouldn't
be a penalty. Those flags you're supposed to be allowed
to pick up now, and that's what the instant replay
in New York is supposed to fix, and they just
let it sit there. So in one game you've got
conference from New York interfering where it shouldn't because no
(21:20):
one had even made a call yet, And then you've
got one where there's clear ability for them to fix it,
and they didn't. And this is why no one trusts
the process, especially in the gambling era, where people think
everything is fixed the minute they lose their fifty dollars parlay.
This is why people don't trust the process, and they
think every time the chiefs get a call, it's rigged.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Because of tailor Swift. It's because of that because the.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Rest don't know how to follow their own rules, and
the league doesn't know how to follow their own rules.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
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Speaker 5 (21:54):
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Speaker 1 (22:21):
Matt Williams and joining us right now in the Mark
Madden Show. Tim bens In for Mark. Matt is brought
to us by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop shop dot
Steelers dot com. You can listen to Matt with Myself
and Shirtless Tom on Wednesday nights at Parksocial on Fox
Sports Pittsburgh nine seventy for countdown to Kickoff. You can
also listen on Steelers Nation Radio SNR during the drive
(22:44):
each and every day. Matt are pro and college scout
alum and an X and O extraordinary. So, Matt, let's
start first and foremost with what you saw against the
Cincinnati Bengals. For the Steelers. How come they couldn't cover
Higgins and Chase. I get it, they're good, but that
was ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (23:02):
It was ridiculous. It's an embarrassing performance. They really did
nothing good on defense pretty much since the second quarter started.
I'm not going to speak for you, but I'm sure
like a lot of our listeners, you know, when early
in that game, I thought, man, the Steelers might blow
them out. You know, they're winning the line of scrimmage,
The defense is humming around, they look good. The offense
(23:25):
is destroying a bad defense, and then for whatever reason,
the second quarter started and everything on defense utterly fell apart.
And I think scheme has a lot to do with it.
By no means am I using this as an excuse,
but I hate Thursday night football, and I think the
road team often crumbles way earlier than they should That's
(23:46):
not an excuse because you got to play them, and
they're not the first team to go on the road
on a Thursday night. But they looked fatigued way earlier
than they should be. They made mental airs, they made
alignment airs, they made coaching mistakes, and frankly, the big
thing I said Friday was I can kind of live
with Chase and Higgins on so many quick hitting routes
(24:10):
putting up the numbers they did. Okay, Chase was the
best player on the field.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I think we lost Matt maybe we can try to
get him back, but where he was going with it,
I agree Chase was the best player on the field.
But at some point then you've got to change what
you're doing against Tim or at some point then you
got to change what you're doing against Higgins, or if
you're getting so much attention on those two guys, you
(24:40):
can't allow yourself to be beaten by Yoshivas, which they
were on that play. That Flacco was giddy about discussing
when he went on the Prime Video postgame show and said, well,
when they doubled those two guys, we were waiting for it,
we expected it, and then they hit Yoshivas over the
middle and got a huge gain. That's what you can't
(25:00):
do and what you have to do then if you're
gonna get torched in the secondary is you have to
apply pressure upfront. And they were unable to apply pressure upfront,
which is where I thought they should have an ability
to win, especially after what we saw against the Vikings
and the Browns. What we saw against the Vikings and
(25:20):
the Browns, I thought was a pass rush that had,
if not gotten fixed, found itself. But then against a
still I thought vulnerable Bengals offensive line, it didn't come through.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I think we got Matt back now.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So Matt, let's pick up where we left off what
you were talking about with Chase, and you were in
the middle of a thought of you could live with
it on those quick hitting routes, but and then we
lost you.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
So what was the butt to that?
Speaker 6 (25:46):
Yeah, and I'm not sure how much you got, so
if I repeat myself, I apologize, But it's not Okay.
It was a terrible performance against Siggins and Chase. Okay,
but once in a while, Jordan scores fifty or sixty
points and it didn't matter who you put on Jordan,
he's still going to get his And I thought that
was Jamar Chase. I thought he was a special, special
(26:06):
player of that night, and it reminded the world that
he's one of the best receivers that's ever lived. Okay,
that's bad, but it's I get it. Sometimes people blow up,
and I definitely think the Steelers approach was First off,
I think that there's a misconception that they didn't make
any adjustments. Oh, they made a lot of adjustments. They
(26:27):
put every different player they possibly could on Chase, they
doubled them, they singled them, they played man, they played zone.
But what they didn't do was hardly play any press man.
And I didn't understand that approach because I'm sure they
went into that game saying we got to eliminate the
big play. I mean, we're going to score a lot
of points against the Bengals if we allow them to
(26:47):
have some long drives and complete a lot of passes,
so be it. Our defense will sack the quarterback, cause
more fumbles than our defense will make more big plays
than theirs in which didn't happen, and that's still a
the okay path to victory. But when the ball's coming
out in two point four seconds and you're still playing
off man coverage over and over, that makes little sense
(27:10):
to me. And what I was saying about, I can
kind of live with Chase and Higgins having huge nights,
but I can't couple that with awful run defense by
one of the worst running teams in the league.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Why did that happen?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Were they just losing upfront in individual battles Somewhat?
Speaker 6 (27:28):
They reverted again to being a very poor tackling team,
which was the first two weeks of the year, and
I thought that was rectified, and I'm going to keep
bringing up because I hate it so much. You do
see that a lot in Thursday night games. Again, that's
not okay, but you do across the league. I do
think it's really really hard on the players. But the
(27:49):
other thing that cap happening too was if you look
at just the I don't have eight to ten Chase
Brown run that were substantial. You know that were five
plus yards. They were running right at gaps that nobody
was aligned it. You know that there was no formational
(28:12):
answer for it. And if it wasn't for Deshaun Elliott
cleaned them up eight ten yards downfield, they would have
been much higher. I mean, Elliott played a whale of
a game, but he's making great run plays on the
third level, which say what you want about Flaco, and
it's the same for true with Rogers. They're always going
to get you in the right plays. I mean, if
(28:33):
there's a B gap that nobody's aligned in, they're going
to run it there. And the same thing was true
and Steers had the ball, you know, I mean, just
these smart veteran quarterbacks give you a big advantage from
the neck up and Flacco still has that.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Matt Williamson with us, and I agree with your assessment
and your characterization of the misread by some who are
saying they didn't make any adjustments. They made adjustments when
it came to coverage on trying to slow those guys down.
Let me ask you a slightly different version of that question, Matt,
did they make enough adjustments and good adjustments when it
came to their front seven in the pass rush, though, Well.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
One thing I don't understand and never will unless there's
an injury that I don't know about, is how do
you reduce her big snaps.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Especially when you said that you were going to go
in the other direction and give him more.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
Right, I mean, he's playing maybe better than anyone on
your defense. I mean he's rushing the passer as well
or better than everyone on your defense, including why so,
how on earth does that make any sense whatsoever? And
more Sawyer can't be the answer either, you know. I
mean I thought he had a rough game, and he's
(29:41):
clearly their fourth best edge guy, so I don't understand
that all in although we're seeing more Holcombe less Wilson,
I don't have a big problem with that. I did
notice and I'm going to do some research on it
on the splits, but I think their run defense when
Harmon was not on the field was noticeably worse than
(30:04):
when he was, And I don't have the numbers to
back that up, but it really really passes the sniff
test after watching the film, which is a testament to him.
But he's not going to play every snap, you know,
But overall, other than the Herbig situation, I can't be
super critical of their front seven personnel choices, but the
(30:26):
Herbig ones massive.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Up next Packers, Colts, Chargers right now, injuries notwithstanding, over
the next three weeks, what's their record in those three games.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
I think they're better than Chargers. I think they're better
than what they showed Thursday night, especially on defense. I
think the Colts are a real problem, a real problem.
So I think they split between Colts and Chargers. Give
me a couple of days to really dig into green Bay.
Tuesday's Stat's Day and there's so much emotion and all
(31:03):
the things I said about Thursday night. I'm such a
believer in betting and picking teams that have big rest advantages,
and the Steelers have one at home and the Rogers factor,
so that one's probably fifty fifty ishued to me.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think they beat Green Bay. I don't think that's
fifty to fifty that way. I think they beat Green Bay.
I think they lose the Colts, and I'm fifty to
fifty on the Chargers. I'll wait the two weeks and
the Chargers before I really formulate an opinion there, But
I feel pretty good about the other two suggestions.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
And one thing that comes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
To mind, Matt, I'm wondering how you think they handle
the Micah Parsons part of this equation, because the easy,
low hanging fruit is to say, just do what you
did against Miles Garrett.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
That works, Yeah, will it?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Or am I oversimplifying that? And will they just ignore
it because they know what we know, and I know
that they know well they do that game for themselves.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Well, one thing I didn't understand from a Brown's perspective
is they lined up Garrett a very high percentage of
the time in the same spot, you know, against Broderick,
which I'm sure they wanted that matchup, even though it
didn't go their way. Parsons will move around definitely more,
and he'll even come up through the middle. And I
really like that Browns front outside of Garrett. But they
(32:19):
don't have a Rashaun Gary either Russia. Rashaan Gary is
a really really good hit at.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Four.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Parsons got there and now's really feasting. So there's another
threat on the other side that's more of a problem.
He's gonna get his I mean, he had three sacks
in this pass game, and he's healthy and he's heating up.
My hunch is they'll just do a lot like with
the Bengals did against Steelers pass rush and get it
out of Rogers' hands really quickly.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Before we go, Matt, I want to get your opinion
on something that Mike Decorsi, my colleague over at the
Trip Live Friday Football Show, and a guest here on
The Mark Madden Show when I was hosting last week.
He said that if you who really make him choose,
he would eschew the low hanging fruit again. Opinion that
(33:07):
the Steelers should go after a wide receiver at the
trade deadline and instead focus their attentions if they're gonna
make a deal on getting a safety. Would you do
that or do you think if there's an opinion that
really needs to be followed, it is get the wide
receiver before the deadline.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
What do you think that's funny? I haven't given a
safety much thought at all because I'm not a truck
cloork guy. I think Thornhill's good enough. I'm still intrigued
with Peppers, but I feel like we would have seen
more from him if we're going to by now and
I guess his logic I'm trying to speak for that
(33:47):
line of thinking is that less Ramsey at safety and
more Ramsey at corner, which means less Leigh at corner,
which I would be fine with. I might even play
Eccos ahead of Sleigh at this point too, which I'm
not trying to get away from the conversation. But a
rangey safety would certainly be of interest more of a
(34:07):
free than a strong because I think Elliott's great. I
still would pick the receiver over a safety, though well.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Part of the reason I would lean that way too
is we still can't get away from the what if
DK gets hurt?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Factor?
Speaker 6 (34:21):
Right, I mean everyone in the media, myself, you have
said that over a million times. That's not a new insight,
but it's still scary as can be.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I'll say this too, Matt.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't want to make this sound like I'm piling
on the Pickens trade, and a lot of people are
doing some hindsight is twenty twenty thinking on this, But look,
I mean like, we don't know that this would ever
have worked out this well for this long through seven
games as it has in Dallas with Pickens.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I can't make that presumption.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
I just know people in the building of all walks
of life are happy he's gone.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And leave it at that, but they don't have a
replacement for him. And I also know this, what we
saw against the Bank was the first true manifestation of
what we were told the tight end position would be.
Big day for Friarmuth. All four score touchdowns. That's what
it's supposed to look like. If that collective acts is
quote unquote the second wide receiver, so be it. But
(35:15):
that's not gonna happen every week. And I feel like
they look at Friarmuth now as like a specialist, like
a guy you play against zone teams or just whenever
you go to Cincinnati, because he riffs the Bengals all
the time.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
Yeah, he's your Bengal killer, right. I don't know what
they think of Friarmuth, but I mean it is odd.
The other thing that happened in this game was Wilson
Roman was clearly the second used wide receiver with Austin
being out. You know that we saw very little Miller
or Scornic, and he did some okay things. I mean,
I guess that's we're talking about on the draft today.
(35:48):
That's either by default. We can't stand Miller or Scornic
enough to put him out there, So let's try this Wilson, dude.
Or he's starting to get it. Maybe he's better. That
being said, I would trade a fifth round pick for.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
A receiver, Oh for sure I would too. Who's gonna
be the better quarterback on Sunday? Lover Rogers?
Speaker 6 (36:11):
Rogers? Yeah, I'm a love fan, you know. I mean,
I think he's got a really bright future, but he
does some dumb things here and there and can push
the envelope. I just think in a game like that,
I'm gonna trust Rogers more ninety it's above the neckloavel Matt.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Thanks to you Wednesday, all right, man, Take care. Matt
Williamson brought to us by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get
it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop
at shop dot Steelers dot com. Listen to him on
pregame with Shirtless Tom. Listen to him with Shirtless Tom
and Me Wednesday nights on Fox Sports Pittsburgh nine seventy
and on sn R during the drive each and every day.
All right, when we come back here on one O
(36:49):
five nine the X. The explanation from Aaron Glenn about
benching Justin Fields.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
It's a doozy. It's next on one o five nine
The X.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
It's The Woody Show weekday mornings at six. Yeah on
one oh five nine The X.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
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