December 16, 2025 • 32 mins
Mark takes your calls on the Steelers win over Miami last night. Mike Defabo joins for his weekly hit recapping the Steelers Dolphins game.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
See them all with herbig are limited. That ain't good.
It's a short week as well. But at this point
the NFL is a war of attrition. Let's be honest.
They play too many games. It should be fourteen. It's
gonna wind up being probably, I don't know what what
max out as I used to think it couldn't possibly
(00:22):
go past sixteen, and now here we are at seventeen.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Gonna be eighteen? I bet at some point it's twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And to be honest, if the league doesn't care if
the guys live or die, or if they have CTE
or if they can walk at the end of the careers,
well that makes two of us. I don't care either.
You know what you can tell about the real state
of the Steelers, how the fans feel, how the players feel.
Even every win is over celebrated that guy Scarps who
(00:53):
used to work for the Steelers. He pointed that out
on Twitter, chest pounding, overreacting, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Every time they win a game.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I remember the days when the Steelers were supposed to win,
expected to win, and like I said, even the players
like you hear Rogers talking about how the belief is growing. Well,
he's trying to talk you into that. But he's also
trying to talk his teammates into that, and he's trying
(01:24):
to talk himself into that. But how will all y'all
feel when this season ends the same way as the
last day, Because that's the way I would bet I'm
a little more optimistic given than winning last night, having
beaten Baltimore the week before. And if you went out
then yeah, you don't have a two thousand and five
(01:45):
vibe about it, even though these Steelers are old and
those guys were young and on the way up. But
right now it just feels same old sable. I am
impressed that Rogers ain't got hurt yet, except very briefly
with the broken wrist, which he has handed impeccably. But now,
right now, Rogers looks very comfortable out there, very confident
(02:08):
out there. What he says after the game too, I
don't know. I don't know. Things look better. I'm not
quite ready to say that they look good. Here's an
unbelievable number. That's twenty three consecutive home wins for the
Steelers on Monday night football.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
That doesn't mean much, but it doesn't mean nothing.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So let me ask you for calls on the fifteens
should be sponsored. Isn't not my fault? What's the biggest
overreaction coming out of last night? I see references to
Rogers heating up. I saw that phrase in a couple
summations of the game in the media, heating up. He's
(02:52):
forty two. Maybe it's a hot flash, menopause, something like that.
I saw a reference to Kenneth Gainwell being the team MVP.
If he is, it's not a very good team. And
maybe it's not as I've been saying. I like the defense,
especially how well at play without Wat and Harmon. The
numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for you would
(03:14):
sacrifice four sacks, seven tackles for a loss one pick,
physical play, real good tackling. The Steelers have missed a
lot of tackles, but not last night. The defense was
absolutely one percent legit, and that is not an overreaction.
The defense held the game at check until the offense
(03:35):
got going, which took the best part of a half.
But then the offense scored touchdowns on four straight possessions,
which was like seeing a UFO land. It's like what
they scored again. Let me make a big mound of
mashed potatoes. Richard Dreyfus reference way over your heads?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
What movie was that?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
The alien movie? Richard drives the big mound of mashed potato?
Why am I thinking? Call me by your Name? That
was a decidedly different movie and did not feature Richard Dreyfus.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But I watched part of it last night after the game.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And now the Steelers visit Detroit on Sunday, and if
you want to make a statement, win that game. Tom
and I were talking about that earlier. Detroit is eight
and six, same as the Steelers. It's not an unwinnable game.
Detroit scores a lot most points in the league. Goss
very good at quarterback, gives is a great running back,
(04:32):
that Saint Brown, who has a super cool name, Amon
Ross Saint Brown. That's a super cool name that sounds
like a like a religious deity. He's a great wide out.
And Baltimore is still one game behind the Steelers, So
go win.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I feel like the Steelers d might stop Detroit. Might.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want to go past night because I'm just
not that can vinced by last night when Cam got
a sack, and by the way, he's still nowhere near
reaching his bonuses, but when Cam got a sack, he
did watch kick celebration. Kind of not real high. The
Rockets will not be recruiting the whole game. The Steelers
(05:19):
played pretty good and beat an ok team, But can
they legitimately punch above their weight class at Detroit and
in a playoff game. That's the question for me, is
still a long way from being answered. But don't let
me stop your overreaction and let me just say by
way of prefacing, the Steelers very potentially pulling the upset
(05:41):
of Detroit. Detroit's secondary is very banged up. I'm not
sure any of their starters are one hundred percent, and
I'll be surprised if more than one or two of
them plays against the Steelers this coming Sunday. Greenberg on
(06:02):
Get Up Today, he was pumping Tomlins tires, and he
said that certain cities would kill to do what the
Steelers do every year, like Carolina and Atlanta, And I
give Jeff Saturday a lot of credit. Saturday said those
franchises aren't in the same category as Pittsburgh. Huzza for
(06:24):
that bang on here in Pittsburgh with six Super Bowls,
And Greenberg did the thing, Oh that was a long
time ago, the seventies. They've won two super Bowls since
nineteen eighty, and that's true, but they did win those
four super Bowls, and they do have six super Bowl championships.
And ergo and he Steeler fan with a lick of
sense and an outs of pride doesn't give a frig
(06:45):
about the no losing seasons.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I know I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
In fact, I look at his embarrassing that some of
you and you're not that bright and you're young, and
which makes you even stupider. You take that so seriously,
like like what's the new thing? Kansas City is out
of the playoff race, so they will be playing three
meaningless games. The Steelers in Tom Wins nineteen years have
only played one meaningless game. If you believe that's important,
(07:10):
go f yourself because it doesn't matter. The key is
what does not playing meaningless games get you? And since
Tom wins first four years coaching, it's gotten the Steelers
in the city. Bupkus any hoodles uh eight three three
(07:32):
four one two w XDX number to call. We're gonna
talk some more penguins as well. I'm gonna do my
tearful thank you to Tristan Jari in just a little
bit and at the bottom of the hour we did
a switcher route today Mike Defebo joins us at three
point thirty.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Peerre Maguire flip flop in the fourth third.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I believe he's flying to Ireland or Scotland or someplace
shed again one five ninety X.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You're holding up first. You know what's great about European soccer? Well, everything, But.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I'm watching a League Cup game in Angle between Chelsea
and they're playing at Cardiff City in Wales, and I
think Cardiff are a Triple A team or maybe even
a Double A level team right now, but their home
pitch is impeccable.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A minor league team in Wales has a better home
field than these Steelers have.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Although it was okay last night, it was cold. Who
could tell?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It's time for calls on the fifteens eight three three
four one two WXDX.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Let's go to Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Joe, you're on with double M.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Hey Mark, listen. I remember talking on your show recently
about how you were asking whether it was really worth
bringing Aaron Rodgers to the team, right and after.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Witnessing legitimate question, but go ahead, yes, sir, Well.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
What I witnessed last night, the guys last night looked
like a warrior to me.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
You know, it was cold. He's still getting hammered.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh my god, he's cold, and he's still played good.
You're right. I mean he's like he's like a latter
day Rambo.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Well, it's forty two years old, that's the way I
look at it. But basically I see him carrying a
poorly coach team that doesn't stand a chance of winning
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Well, that's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Rogers played real well last night.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I would call it more efficient and spectacular, but that's
what they needed, was efficient. As far as being a
poorly coached team, I mean, I don't know. I mean,
clearly he's assumed maybe not assumed control, but he has
influence over what's going on with the offense. In terms
of play calling. He can, you know, do checkdown and
does quite a bit. And that's okay because he has
(09:49):
vision and thought that that few quarterbacks ever have had.
He's getting mvs and feeling in there. I'm not sure
if that's good over younger guys, faster guys.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So I I think it's a mixed bag.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
With him, and I still think it's in doubt if
he can win a playoff game.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
But let me ask you this, So you think it's
good that they brought Rodgers in, right, Yes, sir, I do. Okay,
what if they don't win a playoff game.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I don't think I'll change my mind still, because it's
the whole picture. Like I said, he can't carry the
whole team himself.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, But if they don't win a playoff game,
which is a low bar But if they don't win
a playoff game, then they've wasted another year with an
old quarterback. And where do they go from there? What's
been gained the Steelers at some point? The Steelers, at
some point have to think past just the next game.
That there's no big picture thinking at all in that
organization and it's why they're stuck in the mushy middle.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Thank you for the call. Good call. It's good to nick.
Nick you're on the Mark Madden Show.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Hey, Mark, I think a good barometer to use is
this upcoming game against the Lions when it comes to
the chances of winning a playoff game, simply because I
know you said the defense will legit. But the Steelers
did exactly what they needed to do and could do
stop the run and let Tua lose it, and that's
exactly what happened.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Golf is no Tua.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So I think depending on how much right and as
good as the Miami run game is, Detroit is even
better with Gibbs.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And you now got to worry about Golf and his arm.
So I think that's a good indicator. But I do
have a question that you brought up with the last caller,
because I honestly don't remember. When it comes to a
playoff game and losing, would you say that it was
more about the defense not stopping where the offense was
able to score. I don't remember from the previous years.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I can make it a lot simpler than that.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, obviously, they gave up a lot of points
in the playoff losses since they last won a playoff game,
and they fell behind early in those games as well,
except a Kansas City where Watt got that scoop and score.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But I can make it a lot simpler. Broth.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They haven't won a playoff game eight years because they
haven't been good enough. It hasn't been failure on one
side of the ball or the other. It's been a
total failure. It's a roster not good enough, a game
plan on got good enough, and certainly coaching not good enough.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You brought up a valid point, though, if Rogers wins
a playoff game, you know wasn't worth it. Well, to
be honest with you, if the Steelers do win a
playoff game, I don't think it's going to be that
telling of the Steelers being better. I don't think it's
gonna be a big deal, but I do think it
would be important. If it was Rogers with four scoring
(12:34):
tds in a row, yeah, then you would say, okay,
yeah it was because of that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But even then, no, right, if he goes out there
and wins the playoff game, then I guess it'll have
been worth it. But my my opinion is that they
winning a playoff game is a really low bar, and
I always think that every team should be designed to
be building towards winning a championship, even if you need
to take steps backwards to go forward, and the Steelers
(13:01):
just won't do that. Let me tell you they they
people can be as optimistic as they want and as
impressed as they want by last night's win. They are
stuck in the mushy middle more than ever. There is
no hope of them winning a championship for like, I mean,
I don't think they have a chance to win a
championship in the next decade, to be quite honest, because
they butchered anything but bringing in old guys to patchwork.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think if they win a playoff game, I don't
think it proves anything, but I do believe they've set
it up to win a playoff game. Like I'm a
fan of the Seelan and Scantlon because regardless how fast
they are, they're comfortable on.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
The field and they know where they fit.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And Rogers needs that because that's a kind of quarterback.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
If your goal is to just win a playoff game
after eight years, not then yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's building building to nothing.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And if they don't win a playoff game, then they
got some splaining to do, Lucy, but they won't. Let's
go to Bartholemew Bartholomew, you're on with Mark, Mark, I said,
good day.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, that's back to back weeks where Mike Commins made
old double M look pretty stupid.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Huh No, that's not true. They're eight and six and
have won a playoff game. You know one will make
me look stupid when he wins a playoff game.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Okay, well he's about to win his eighth division.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Title.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
When I was a kid, we worried about winning super Bowls.
But but I understand, you're young, you're dumb, I dot,
you're full of anything, let alone that. But but the
bottom line is that they need to do better. And
until they do, I'm right, he's wrong. I'm successful. He's
a failure. But a failure like yourself would embrace failure,
so I'm not surprised. Please do go on anything else
(14:42):
I didn't think so, thanks for the call. Okay, Up next,
we talked football with Mike de Fabo one O five
to nine.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Every weekd at ten am is trying to starting your
day commercial free on one O five nine DX and.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Now the super genius Mark Madden. Yes, like wetter to
my ear. The last thing we need is a lot
of loose talk.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
The X at one five nine.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Steelers with a big win last night at home against
Miami and it was cold outside, baby joining me now
to talk about it. He covers the team for the
Athletic and Smike de Fabo, Mike, I thought that was
a convincing win. I'm just not sure quite what we
should be convinced of moving forward.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I would consider it a taking care of business type
of win. I know that the Miami Dolphins were hot
and coming into that game.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I know that they had a really good rushing offense.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
At the same time, people are talking about their head
coach losing his job earlier this year and some of
the teams.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
That they beat up on.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Yes, the Miami Dolphins had beaten the Bills in pretty
convincing fashion during this stretch. You're also talking about them
beating teams like the Saints and like the Jets, and
so the real question is does this get the Steelers
any closer to their end goal, which is to win
a playoff game. It does in the sense that they're
one step closer to qualifying for the playoffs. But still,
(16:04):
I feel like if you're looking for the Steelers to
prove they could stop the run, slow down a really
good offense, and beat a quality team that should be
in the playoffs, you only have to wait six days
because they're about to play one of those teams coming up.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, I feel like Miami is kind of Detroit lights.
Detroit does a lot of the same things, only they
do it better. Commin was aggressive, went for unfourth down.
Where did that come from? I'm not sure I expected
that from a guy who plays tip to the vest,
not least at home and not least in cold weather.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I think that was really what set the stage for
the middle eight, so to speak, where the Steelers were
able to score a touchdown before the halftime, and then
they came out of halftime and scored again.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And it started with taking some risks and being aggressive.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
That Connor Hayward push push has been in the playbook
for a long time, and they've really now I think,
started to perfect it, or become very efficient at it
at least, and also develop some different kind of wrinkles
off of it. So as long as it keeps working,
I see no reason not to continue to be aggressive
in those situations and continue to run it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
The one thing I didn't understand is why Aaron Rodgers
is out there. I mean, why not put another blocker?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
When he's just standing there, you know, joking around and
just signaling first down. It doesn't seem to make a
whole lot of sense, so you know, they can do
some different things off of that, and.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I would agree that it would make sense.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Why not put a big, physical guy who can be
part of the pushing back there instead of just someone
who's there for comedic effect?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Right the signal touchdown? They didn't miss water harmon? Why
not the how'd they play around that? Who came through
in their absence?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
I think camp Hayward had a good game, you know,
two tackles for a loss, But even more than what
he did in the stat sheet, I think that he
was part of resetting the line of scrimmage and winning
things there.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And I had an interesting conversation with Peyton Wilson after
the game, and he said that he felt like the Dolphins.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
As much as they're very creative and non conventional type
of rushing offense, they also had a lot of tells.
So it seemed like the Steelers knew which direction they
were going to be running the football when they might
be running the football, and they were able to shut
it down. I also feel like to that might have
been his last chapter as a starting quarterback in the NFL.
(18:24):
He is just so bad that interception that he threw
to Santae Samuel Junior was horrendous. So when you're dealing
with a quarterback who has some pretty clear limitations and
is not playing his best, doesn't want to be out
there in the cold, it does give the Steelers an
opportunity to really hone in on the run, shut that
down and then make to a beat them.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Which he was unable to do.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
How good was Rogers half the time?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
He just swhipped it the game well, but he rifled
in some big throws as well.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, I would agree with that assessment, Mark.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I think that a lot of what he was doing
was taking what the defense gave him. But he also did,
I think, make a really good throw a DK metcalf
fitting into a tight window that high cross the touchdown
he scored to MVS.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I thought that that was a very good throw.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
And so, you know, I looked at Rogers over the
last two games and going into that game against Baltimore,
his play had regressed and over the ten or twelve
previous quarters, you know, his numbers were down in every
single area. He had only completed like fifty two percent
of his passes over the three games leading to that
game in Baltimore. But in both of those cases, he
(19:31):
again took what the defense gave him. But it was
a completely different thing. Against Baltimore. It was a single
high team, a lot of pressman coverage, basically daring the
Steelers to beat them deep, and they were able to
do it. Basically the exact opposite here from the Miami
Dolphins defense. They sat in that two high shell and
they said, you can dink and dunk us all day.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You're gonna have to be incredibly efficient to beat us.
And that's what Rogers was. You know, I know that there's.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
The stats about him attacking the middle field going around
right now. I think about eight or nine of those
passes were behind the line of scrimmage. So there was
certainly the just getting the ball out of his hands
safe plays, But when he needed to make the throws
over the middle, he was also able to do so.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
When did Kenneth Gainwell turn into Ladanian Tomlinson? Is that
no matter of him being forced fan or no matter
of him being legit.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, I mean I think that the Steelers kind of.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Have a good one two punch at running back. I
think did a by committee approach probably is what makes
the most sense now, because I still have a lot
of faith in Jalen Warren and think that if he
was getting the same number of touches and opportunities, he
may be doing similar things.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree, But I think Rogers likes gain Well better,
don't you?
Speaker 5 (20:45):
And more importantly, Arthur Smith likes Gainwell better because the
one area where Gainwell is more well rounded is as
a route runner, as a pass catcher, as a versatile
guy who can split out and act as a wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yards after catch too.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He he knows what to do better after the reception.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I think, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
He's a little shiftier, a little bit of a quicker
first step.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So he's been a pleasant surprise.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
I mean, before the season not to take the old
victory lap, but I'll go ahead since I'm already doing it.
Someone within the organization said when from the minute they
signed him, they said, we think that this is going
to be our Deshaun Elliott.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You know, the year before they had signed to Shawn.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
He was kind of a bargain basement guy, went under
the radar, didn't feel like a big addition, but internally
they had a lot of faith and it was similar
with Kenneth Gainwell, they had believed in him, they watched
him from Afar, from what he did in Philadelphia, and
now they're able to, you know, work around his skill
set and highlight a kind of unique player.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Talking to Mike de Fable of the Athletic here on
the Mark Madden Show, Mike brought to us by Armstrong
We internet you kind of on the people you trust
Armstrong one wire dot Com. Mike, what did the Steelers
change or figure out on offense before they scored touchdowns
on four straight drives?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Because it was pretty grim up till then.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, I think it was just the execution picked up
more than anything else.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
And also I think that they had more balance.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
As much as Rogers played an efficient game, as we're mentioning,
a lot of that was just dumping the ball up
to Kenneth game while creating yards after the catch. And
then they did run the ball more effectively, and that's
really the formula for this offense. When they've had balance,
that's taken some pressure off of Rogers and made him
even better and made him look more like, you know,
the quarterback that the Steelers thought that they were signing
(22:35):
up for. So you know, going forward, I think that's
that's key for the Steelers. They have to they can't
become one dimensional as they've been sometimes this year. They
have to still have that threat of running the football,
you know, to make them a more diverse and more
more talented offense.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What made the Steelers defense come up big and play
more physical than has all year. My god, Mike Patrick
Queen actually looked like a linebacker.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Patrick Queen was good in that game, and I think
his best play was when he shot that gap on
third down to create the negative play and ultimately I
think it led to a long field goal, but got
the Steelers off the field.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You know.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I think that they're becoming more connected to a degree
now that they're.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Established in their roles. You know, now Jalen Ramsey has
been playing safety a little bit longer. They have their
rotations figured out.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
It inside linebacker, where Billie Harrison is typically the rundown guy.
I think that you're starting to see continued development from
guys like Ya Black. Keanu Benton, who's had an up
and down season, I think had one of his better
games of the year. So I think it was just
a little bit of everything and then guys were trusting
each other. Like it's cliche and I'm sick of Like
(23:46):
every time you go in the locker room they play
running team, they say the same things. Guys have to
be in their gaps, Guys have to trust other players.
It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to
do it. And it felt like the Steelers were doing
it last night.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
In the physicality Mike, even on offense. How about DK
blasting through Minca.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, that was a pretty great moment that I think
again shows Minca's continued decline and why it was important
for the Steelers to move on from him when they did.
But yeah, that was a hell of a play from DK.
And I think that you're starting to see, uh, you know,
(24:26):
like Rogers tap into some different sides of DK.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Like before it seemed like it was.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Just slants, Like slants was the only way they were
getting the ball to DK metcalf And now you're starting
to see some deeper patterns, some posts like the one
that he hit there. He's starting to see them a
pack down field more. And I think that's just so
important because DK is a pretty well rounded receiver. He
can hurt you in a variety of ways, and the
Steelers were really only tapping into one side of that
for most of the year. Now he's starting to look
(24:53):
like more like the receiver that the Steelers paid for.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Can they win a Detroit because, like I said a
moment ago, I think Detroit does a lot of the
same thing as in Miami, only they are better at it.
They got better players, not at least a quarterback, but
they're only eight and six same as the Steelers. I
think they missed the coordinators they lost from last year
that went on to head coaching jobs. And aren't their
defensive backs like all hurt. I mean there's some question
(25:17):
marks up there.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head on all
of those departments.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
I think they're missing three of their four defense starting
defensive backs right now.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
In this game, you.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Know, I think it's going to come down to can
the Steelers stop the run again against Demir Gibs. And
you look at what he's done in wins, he's averaging
one hundred and six yards per game and losses it's
just forty two and in even like week to week,
you're talking about like two hundred and nineteen and one
hundred and forty two yard performances and wins and thirty
(25:49):
nine and thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yard performances and losses. So if the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Honed in on the run and realized that that was
going to be their formula to win last week, it's
even more true. And it's a bigger test against a
more talented offense.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
You know, even though it's kind.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Of wild that the Lions have gone through some dysfunction
and now Dan Campbell is calling the plays, they're still
the highest point producing offense in the league with more
than thirty points per game.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So this is going to be a big challenge for
that defense.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Like if this defense felt like they discovered something and
turned a corner in the most recent game, they've got
six days to prove that they can actually do it
and that that's sustainable. And then, as you're mentioning I
think offensively for the Steelers, I think that there could
be opportunity for Aaron Rodgers to throw the football downfield.
One thing that I think could be a challenge is
they play a ton of man coverage and they also
(26:43):
play a lot of too high coverages, and so you're
talking about teams are going to try to match up
physically with DK Metcalf, try to be in receivers faces
to limit that short, quick passing game the Steelers have
leaned upon. And so ultimately it's going to be up
to Aaron Rodgers to expose the secondary that could be
missing some pieces.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I want to talk a bit more about the Aaron
Rodgers factor because I think it's odd Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
He's either zen or a weirdo. He wants what he wants.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
He's influencing the offense in the depth chart for better
or worse.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm not sure what's really working and what isn't.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
But I do know he's playing chess out there, and
the rest of them appear to be playing checkers.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
I think that you sign up for all these things,
and I'll take it a step further.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Mark. I mean, he said a couple of weeks ago
that he felt like they didn't have good practices, and
he said maybe it was because they were practicing outside.
Mike Tomlin, who always.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Practices outside, practically moved his practices indoors over the last
two weeks.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Now.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
They did practice at Akasher Stadium one of those days.
But I have to think that Aaron Rodgers had a
substantial say in that, and so I think that they're
kind of saying, look, this is the the date that
we invited to the prom, this is who we're going with,
and we're going to dance with them all night. And
they're they're going to go down with Rogers for better
(28:08):
or worse. And you know, Mike Tomlins said after that
win in Baltimore, you know, games like that are why
you sign up for Aaron Rodgers, And really, I.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Think that's going to be what tells the story of
the season.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
He was supposed to be supported by a consistent defense,
He's supposed to be supported by a consistent running game.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Those things have been inconsistent, and.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Now I think that they're going to end up putting
a lot on Aaron Rodgers shoulders.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And I think given the.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Construction of the team and the way that they've allowed
Rogers to influence a number of decisions, I think that
he's going to play the biggest role in whether they're
able to win a playoff game or not.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I still feel like Week eighteen at home against Baltimore
decides the division.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It almost feels preordained. Mike, what say you.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
I think you can go ahead and just pencil that
into a prime time game either Saturday night or Sunday night,
when they typically like to put those games when it's
winning get in.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So I completely agree with you.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I've been saying that for weeks that I think it's
going to come down to Week eighteen, and even if
the Steeler I don't think the Steels are gonna win
this week in Detroit, and even if they beat the
Cleveland Browns, it still is probably going to come down
to that Week eighteen, and it's going to be a
huge game, and I think it's gonna be like a
lot of Steelers games where it's gonna turn out to
be kind of a coin flip that could go either direction.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We know the teams that they could play in the
first round, assuming they win the division. Which would be
the worst matchup, which would be the most favorable matchup?
Speaker 5 (29:43):
You know, I guess the Bills would be the worst matchup,
just because they ran all over the Steelers a couple
of weeks ago. And you look historically like even when
the Steelers defense has been a lot better than spend
this year, they've completely fallen apart when they face to
Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson in the playoffs.
(30:04):
So I think that that would be probably the worst matchup.
I would say the Chargers could be the best matchup.
And I say that knowing that the Steelers went to
LA and Rogers played one of the worst games of
his career, and that defense, I think played the perfect types.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And schematics to shut down Aaron.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
But just as we were talking about what the Lions
dealing with a number of injuries, that defense has been
ravaged by injuries, and so I think they're going to
be getting a different type of Chargers team, and especially
getting them at home.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I think I'm not sure that I would pick.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
The Steelers necessarily to win that game, but I think
that they would have a better chance of winning that
one than they would playing against the Bills.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I like draw a line assuming there's four teams they
could play, barring incredible circumstances, either be Buffalo, Houston, Jacksonville,
or the LA Chargers. I could see them having a
chance against the Chargers in Jacksonville, zero chance against Buffalo
and Houston. Like you said, Buffalo beat him badly here
in Pittsburgh. Not long ago, and I think Houston's defense
(31:07):
would break Rogers in two.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Again, I agree with you. I think that that defense
is dominant.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I think that that defense would give the Steelers a
ton of headaches. So I agree with you, And I
don't know if I would pick the Steelers necessarily in
any of these playoff games, just given recent history and
the way that the Steelers have been so inconsistent this year.
But you could probably say that about most of the
AFC as well.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Mike has always great stuff, terrific work at the Athletic.
We'll talk to Gain next week.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
All right, sounds great, Mark, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That's Mike Defabo, brought twist by Armstrong one wire dot Com.
Up next, got a lot of national media feedback to
the Steelers winning last night, mostly good, some a bit
skeptical like I am. We got some hockey talk at
the top of the hour and again at four thirty
with Pierre McGuire, who does the best hockey talking ton
(32:01):
with me of course.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
One oh five ninety X It's The Woody Show weekday
mornings at six on one oh five nine d X.
This hour, The Mark Madten Show is brought to you
by Bud light probably served a tequila cowboy on a
See them all with herbig are limited. That ain't good.
It's a short week as well. But at this point
the NFL is a war of attrition. Let's be honest.
They play too many games. It should be fourteen. It's
gonna wind up being probably, I don't know what what
max out as I used to think it couldn't possibly
(00:22):
go past sixteen, and now here we are at seventeen.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Gonna be eighteen? I bet at some point it's twenty.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And to be honest, if the league doesn't care if
the guys live or die, or if they have CTE
or if they can walk at the end of the careers,
well that makes two of us. I don't care either.
You know what you can tell about the real state
of the Steelers, how the fans feel, how the players feel.
Even every win is over celebrated that guy Scarps who
(00:53):
used to work for the Steelers. He pointed that out
on Twitter, chest pounding, overreacting, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Every time they win a game.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I remember the days when the Steelers were supposed to win,
expected to win, and like I said, even the players
like you hear Rogers talking about how the belief is growing. Well,
he's trying to talk you into that. But he's also
trying to talk his teammates into that, and he's trying
(01:24):
to talk himself into that. But how will all y'all
feel when this season ends the same way as the
last day, Because that's the way I would bet I'm
a little more optimistic given than winning last night, having
beaten Baltimore the week before. And if you went out
then yeah, you don't have a two thousand and five
(01:45):
vibe about it, even though these Steelers are old and
those guys were young and on the way up. But
right now it just feels same old sable. I am
impressed that Rogers ain't got hurt yet, except very briefly
with the broken wrist, which he has handed impeccably. But now,
right now, Rogers looks very comfortable out there, very confident
(02:08):
out there. What he says after the game too, I
don't know. I don't know. Things look better. I'm not
quite ready to say that they look good. Here's an
unbelievable number. That's twenty three consecutive home wins for the
Steelers on Monday night football.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
That doesn't mean much, but it doesn't mean nothing.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So let me ask you for calls on the fifteens
should be sponsored. Isn't not my fault? What's the biggest
overreaction coming out of last night? I see references to
Rogers heating up. I saw that phrase in a couple
summations of the game in the media, heating up. He's
(02:52):
forty two. Maybe it's a hot flash, menopause, something like that.
I saw a reference to Kenneth Gainwell being the team MVP.
If he is, it's not a very good team. And
maybe it's not as I've been saying. I like the defense,
especially how well at play without Wat and Harmon. The
numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for you would
(03:14):
sacrifice four sacks, seven tackles for a loss one pick,
physical play, real good tackling. The Steelers have missed a
lot of tackles, but not last night. The defense was
absolutely one percent legit, and that is not an overreaction.
The defense held the game at check until the offense
(03:35):
got going, which took the best part of a half.
But then the offense scored touchdowns on four straight possessions,
which was like seeing a UFO land. It's like what
they scored again. Let me make a big mound of
mashed potatoes. Richard Dreyfus reference way over your heads?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
What movie was that?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
The alien movie? Richard drives the big mound of mashed potato?
Why am I thinking? Call me by your Name? That
was a decidedly different movie and did not feature Richard Dreyfus.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But I watched part of it last night after the game.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
And now the Steelers visit Detroit on Sunday, and if
you want to make a statement, win that game. Tom
and I were talking about that earlier. Detroit is eight
and six, same as the Steelers. It's not an unwinnable game.
Detroit scores a lot most points in the league. Goss
very good at quarterback, gives is a great running back,
(04:32):
that Saint Brown, who has a super cool name, Amon
Ross Saint Brown. That's a super cool name that sounds
like a like a religious deity. He's a great wide out.
And Baltimore is still one game behind the Steelers, So
go win.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I feel like the Steelers d might stop Detroit. Might.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I don't want to go past night because I'm just
not that can vinced by last night when Cam got
a sack, and by the way, he's still nowhere near
reaching his bonuses, but when Cam got a sack, he
did watch kick celebration. Kind of not real high. The
Rockets will not be recruiting the whole game. The Steelers
(05:19):
played pretty good and beat an ok team, But can
they legitimately punch above their weight class at Detroit and
in a playoff game. That's the question for me, is
still a long way from being answered. But don't let
me stop your overreaction and let me just say by
way of prefacing, the Steelers very potentially pulling the upset
(05:41):
of Detroit. Detroit's secondary is very banged up. I'm not
sure any of their starters are one hundred percent, and
I'll be surprised if more than one or two of
them plays against the Steelers this coming Sunday. Greenberg on
(06:02):
Get Up Today, he was pumping Tomlins tires, and he
said that certain cities would kill to do what the
Steelers do every year, like Carolina and Atlanta, And I
give Jeff Saturday a lot of credit. Saturday said those
franchises aren't in the same category as Pittsburgh. Huzza for
(06:24):
that bang on here in Pittsburgh with six Super Bowls,
And Greenberg did the thing, Oh that was a long
time ago, the seventies. They've won two super Bowls since
nineteen eighty, and that's true, but they did win those
four super Bowls, and they do have six super Bowl championships.
And ergo and he Steeler fan with a lick of
sense and an outs of pride doesn't give a frig
(06:45):
about the no losing seasons.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I know I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
In fact, I look at his embarrassing that some of
you and you're not that bright and you're young, and
which makes you even stupider. You take that so seriously,
like like what's the new thing? Kansas City is out
of the playoff race, so they will be playing three
meaningless games. The Steelers in Tom Wins nineteen years have
only played one meaningless game. If you believe that's important,
(07:10):
go f yourself because it doesn't matter. The key is
what does not playing meaningless games get you? And since
Tom wins first four years coaching, it's gotten the Steelers
in the city. Bupkus any hoodles uh eight three three
(07:32):
four one two w XDX number to call. We're gonna
talk some more penguins as well. I'm gonna do my
tearful thank you to Tristan Jari in just a little
bit and at the bottom of the hour we did
a switcher route today Mike Defebo joins us at three
point thirty.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Peerre Maguire flip flop in the fourth third.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I believe he's flying to Ireland or Scotland or someplace
shed again one five ninety X.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You're holding up first. You know what's great about European soccer? Well, everything, But.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I'm watching a League Cup game in Angle between Chelsea
and they're playing at Cardiff City in Wales, and I
think Cardiff are a Triple A team or maybe even
a Double A level team right now, but their home
pitch is impeccable.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
A minor league team in Wales has a better home
field than these Steelers have.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Although it was okay last night, it was cold. Who
could tell?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It's time for calls on the fifteens eight three three
four one two WXDX.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Let's go to Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Joe, you're on with double M.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Hey Mark, listen. I remember talking on your show recently
about how you were asking whether it was really worth
bringing Aaron Rodgers to the team, right and after.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Witnessing legitimate question, but go ahead, yes, sir, Well.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
What I witnessed last night, the guys last night looked
like a warrior to me.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
You know, it was cold. He's still getting hammered.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Oh my god, he's cold, and he's still played good.
You're right. I mean he's like he's like a latter
day Rambo.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Well, it's forty two years old, that's the way I
look at it. But basically I see him carrying a
poorly coach team that doesn't stand a chance of winning
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Well, that's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Rogers played real well last night.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
I would call it more efficient and spectacular, but that's
what they needed, was efficient. As far as being a
poorly coached team, I mean, I don't know. I mean,
clearly he's assumed maybe not assumed control, but he has
influence over what's going on with the offense. In terms
of play calling. He can, you know, do checkdown and
does quite a bit. And that's okay because he has
(09:49):
vision and thought that that few quarterbacks ever have had.
He's getting mvs and feeling in there. I'm not sure
if that's good over younger guys, faster guys.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So I I think it's a mixed bag.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
With him, and I still think it's in doubt if
he can win a playoff game.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
But let me ask you this, So you think it's
good that they brought Rodgers in, right, Yes, sir, I do. Okay,
what if they don't win a playoff game.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I don't think I'll change my mind still, because it's
the whole picture. Like I said, he can't carry the
whole team himself.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, But if they don't win a playoff game,
which is a low bar But if they don't win
a playoff game, then they've wasted another year with an
old quarterback. And where do they go from there? What's
been gained the Steelers at some point? The Steelers, at
some point have to think past just the next game.
That there's no big picture thinking at all in that
organization and it's why they're stuck in the mushy middle.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Thank you for the call. Good call. It's good to nick.
Nick you're on the Mark Madden Show.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Hey, Mark, I think a good barometer to use is
this upcoming game against the Lions when it comes to
the chances of winning a playoff game, simply because I
know you said the defense will legit. But the Steelers
did exactly what they needed to do and could do
stop the run and let Tua lose it, and that's
exactly what happened.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Golf is no Tua.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So I think depending on how much right and as
good as the Miami run game is, Detroit is even
better with Gibbs.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And you now got to worry about Golf and his arm.
So I think that's a good indicator. But I do
have a question that you brought up with the last caller,
because I honestly don't remember. When it comes to a
playoff game and losing, would you say that it was
more about the defense not stopping where the offense was
able to score. I don't remember from the previous years.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I can make it a lot simpler than that.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean, obviously, they gave up a lot of points
in the playoff losses since they last won a playoff game,
and they fell behind early in those games as well,
except a Kansas City where Watt got that scoop and score.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But I can make it a lot simpler. Broth.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
They haven't won a playoff game eight years because they
haven't been good enough. It hasn't been failure on one
side of the ball or the other. It's been a
total failure. It's a roster not good enough, a game
plan on got good enough, and certainly coaching not good enough.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You brought up a valid point, though, if Rogers wins
a playoff game, you know wasn't worth it. Well, to
be honest with you, if the Steelers do win a
playoff game, I don't think it's going to be that
telling of the Steelers being better. I don't think it's
gonna be a big deal, but I do think it
would be important. If it was Rogers with four scoring
(12:34):
tds in a row, yeah, then you would say, okay,
yeah it was because of that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But even then, no, right, if he goes out there
and wins the playoff game, then I guess it'll have
been worth it. But my my opinion is that they
winning a playoff game is a really low bar, and
I always think that every team should be designed to
be building towards winning a championship, even if you need
to take steps backwards to go forward, and the Steelers
(13:01):
just won't do that. Let me tell you they they
people can be as optimistic as they want and as
impressed as they want by last night's win. They are
stuck in the mushy middle more than ever. There is
no hope of them winning a championship for like, I mean,
I don't think they have a chance to win a
championship in the next decade, to be quite honest, because
they butchered anything but bringing in old guys to patchwork.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think if they win a playoff game, I don't
think it proves anything, but I do believe they've set
it up to win a playoff game. Like I'm a
fan of the Seelan and Scantlon because regardless how fast
they are, they're comfortable on.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
The field and they know where they fit.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And Rogers needs that because that's a kind of quarterback.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
If your goal is to just win a playoff game
after eight years, not then yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's building building to nothing.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And if they don't win a playoff game, then they
got some splaining to do, Lucy, but they won't. Let's
go to Bartholemew Bartholomew, you're on with Mark, Mark, I said,
good day.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Well, that's back to back weeks where Mike Commins made
old double M look pretty stupid.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Huh No, that's not true. They're eight and six and
have won a playoff game. You know one will make
me look stupid when he wins a playoff game.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Okay, well he's about to win his eighth division.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Title.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
When I was a kid, we worried about winning super Bowls.
But but I understand, you're young, you're dumb, I dot,
you're full of anything, let alone that. But but the
bottom line is that they need to do better. And
until they do, I'm right, he's wrong. I'm successful. He's
a failure. But a failure like yourself would embrace failure,
so I'm not surprised. Please do go on anything else
(14:42):
I didn't think so, thanks for the call. Okay, Up next,
we talked football with Mike de Fabo one O five
to nine.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Every weekd at ten am is trying to starting your
day commercial free on one O five nine DX and.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Now the super genius Mark Madden. Yes, like wetter to
my ear. The last thing we need is a lot
of loose talk.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
The X at one five nine.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Steelers with a big win last night at home against
Miami and it was cold outside, baby joining me now
to talk about it. He covers the team for the
Athletic and Smike de Fabo, Mike, I thought that was
a convincing win. I'm just not sure quite what we
should be convinced of moving forward.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
I would consider it a taking care of business type
of win. I know that the Miami Dolphins were hot
and coming into that game.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I know that they had a really good rushing offense.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
At the same time, people are talking about their head
coach losing his job earlier this year and some of
the teams.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
That they beat up on.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Yes, the Miami Dolphins had beaten the Bills in pretty
convincing fashion during this stretch. You're also talking about them
beating teams like the Saints and like the Jets, and
so the real question is does this get the Steelers
any closer to their end goal, which is to win
a playoff game. It does in the sense that they're
one step closer to qualifying for the playoffs. But still,
(16:04):
I feel like if you're looking for the Steelers to
prove they could stop the run, slow down a really
good offense, and beat a quality team that should be
in the playoffs, you only have to wait six days
because they're about to play one of those teams coming up.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, I feel like Miami is kind of Detroit lights.
Detroit does a lot of the same things, only they
do it better. Commin was aggressive, went for unfourth down.
Where did that come from? I'm not sure I expected
that from a guy who plays tip to the vest,
not least at home and not least in cold weather.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I think that was really what set the stage for
the middle eight, so to speak, where the Steelers were
able to score a touchdown before the halftime, and then
they came out of halftime and scored again.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
And it started with taking some risks and being aggressive.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
That Connor Hayward push push has been in the playbook
for a long time, and they've really now I think,
started to perfect it, or become very efficient at it
at least, and also develop some different kind of wrinkles
off of it. So as long as it keeps working,
I see no reason not to continue to be aggressive
in those situations and continue to run it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
The one thing I didn't understand is why Aaron Rodgers
is out there. I mean, why not put another blocker?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
When he's just standing there, you know, joking around and
just signaling first down. It doesn't seem to make a
whole lot of sense, so you know, they can do
some different things off of that, and.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I would agree that it would make sense.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Why not put a big, physical guy who can be
part of the pushing back there instead of just someone
who's there for comedic effect?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Right the signal touchdown? They didn't miss water harmon? Why
not the how'd they play around that? Who came through
in their absence?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
I think camp Hayward had a good game, you know,
two tackles for a loss, But even more than what
he did in the stat sheet, I think that he
was part of resetting the line of scrimmage and winning
things there.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
And I had an interesting conversation with Peyton Wilson after
the game, and he said that he felt like the Dolphins.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
As much as they're very creative and non conventional type
of rushing offense, they also had a lot of tells.
So it seemed like the Steelers knew which direction they
were going to be running the football when they might
be running the football, and they were able to shut
it down. I also feel like to that might have
been his last chapter as a starting quarterback in the NFL.
(18:24):
He is just so bad that interception that he threw
to Santae Samuel Junior was horrendous. So when you're dealing
with a quarterback who has some pretty clear limitations and
is not playing his best, doesn't want to be out
there in the cold, it does give the Steelers an
opportunity to really hone in on the run, shut that
down and then make to a beat them.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Which he was unable to do.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
How good was Rogers half the time?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
He just swhipped it the game well, but he rifled
in some big throws as well.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, I would agree with that assessment, Mark.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I think that a lot of what he was doing
was taking what the defense gave him. But he also did,
I think, make a really good throw a DK metcalf
fitting into a tight window that high cross the touchdown
he scored to MVS.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I thought that that was a very good throw.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
And so, you know, I looked at Rogers over the
last two games and going into that game against Baltimore,
his play had regressed and over the ten or twelve
previous quarters, you know, his numbers were down in every
single area. He had only completed like fifty two percent
of his passes over the three games leading to that
game in Baltimore. But in both of those cases, he
(19:31):
again took what the defense gave him. But it was
a completely different thing. Against Baltimore. It was a single
high team, a lot of pressman coverage, basically daring the
Steelers to beat them deep, and they were able to
do it. Basically the exact opposite here from the Miami
Dolphins defense. They sat in that two high shell and
they said, you can dink and dunk us all day.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You're gonna have to be incredibly efficient to beat us.
And that's what Rogers was. You know, I know that there's.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
The stats about him attacking the middle field going around
right now. I think about eight or nine of those
passes were behind the line of scrimmage. So there was
certainly the just getting the ball out of his hands
safe plays, But when he needed to make the throws
over the middle, he was also able to do so.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
When did Kenneth Gainwell turn into Ladanian Tomlinson? Is that
no matter of him being forced fan or no matter
of him being legit.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, I mean I think that the Steelers kind of.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Have a good one two punch at running back. I
think did a by committee approach probably is what makes
the most sense now, because I still have a lot
of faith in Jalen Warren and think that if he
was getting the same number of touches and opportunities, he
may be doing similar things.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I agree, But I think Rogers likes gain Well better,
don't you?
Speaker 5 (20:45):
And more importantly, Arthur Smith likes Gainwell better because the
one area where Gainwell is more well rounded is as
a route runner, as a pass catcher, as a versatile
guy who can split out and act as a wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yards after catch too.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He he knows what to do better after the reception.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
I think, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
He's a little shiftier, a little bit of a quicker
first step.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
So he's been a pleasant surprise.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
I mean, before the season not to take the old
victory lap, but I'll go ahead since I'm already doing it.
Someone within the organization said when from the minute they
signed him, they said, we think that this is going
to be our Deshaun Elliott.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
You know, the year before they had signed to Shawn.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
He was kind of a bargain basement guy, went under
the radar, didn't feel like a big addition, but internally
they had a lot of faith and it was similar
with Kenneth Gainwell, they had believed in him, they watched
him from Afar, from what he did in Philadelphia, and
now they're able to, you know, work around his skill
set and highlight a kind of unique player.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Talking to Mike de Fable of the Athletic here on
the Mark Madden Show, Mike brought to us by Armstrong
We internet you kind of on the people you trust
Armstrong one wire dot Com. Mike, what did the Steelers
change or figure out on offense before they scored touchdowns
on four straight drives?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Because it was pretty grim up till then.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, I think it was just the execution picked up
more than anything else.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
And also I think that they had more balance.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
As much as Rogers played an efficient game, as we're mentioning,
a lot of that was just dumping the ball up
to Kenneth game while creating yards after the catch. And
then they did run the ball more effectively, and that's
really the formula for this offense. When they've had balance,
that's taken some pressure off of Rogers and made him
even better and made him look more like, you know,
the quarterback that the Steelers thought that they were signing
(22:35):
up for. So you know, going forward, I think that's
that's key for the Steelers. They have to they can't
become one dimensional as they've been sometimes this year. They
have to still have that threat of running the football,
you know, to make them a more diverse and more
more talented offense.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
What made the Steelers defense come up big and play
more physical than has all year. My god, Mike Patrick
Queen actually looked like a linebacker.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Patrick Queen was good in that game, and I think
his best play was when he shot that gap on
third down to create the negative play and ultimately I
think it led to a long field goal, but got
the Steelers off the field.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You know.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I think that they're becoming more connected to a degree
now that they're.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Established in their roles. You know, now Jalen Ramsey has
been playing safety a little bit longer. They have their
rotations figured out.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
It inside linebacker, where Billie Harrison is typically the rundown guy.
I think that you're starting to see continued development from
guys like Ya Black. Keanu Benton, who's had an up
and down season, I think had one of his better
games of the year. So I think it was just
a little bit of everything and then guys were trusting
each other. Like it's cliche and I'm sick of Like
(23:46):
every time you go in the locker room they play
running team, they say the same things. Guys have to
be in their gaps, Guys have to trust other players.
It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to
do it. And it felt like the Steelers were doing
it last night.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
In the physicality Mike, even on offense. How about DK
blasting through Minca.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Yeah, that was a pretty great moment that I think
again shows Minca's continued decline and why it was important
for the Steelers to move on from him when they did.
But yeah, that was a hell of a play from DK.
And I think that you're starting to see, uh, you know,
(24:26):
like Rogers tap into some different sides of DK.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Like before it seemed like it was.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Just slants, Like slants was the only way they were
getting the ball to DK metcalf And now you're starting
to see some deeper patterns, some posts like the one
that he hit there. He's starting to see them a
pack down field more. And I think that's just so
important because DK is a pretty well rounded receiver. He
can hurt you in a variety of ways, and the
Steelers were really only tapping into one side of that
for most of the year. Now he's starting to look
(24:53):
like more like the receiver that the Steelers paid for.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Can they win a Detroit because, like I said a
moment ago, I think Detroit does a lot of the
same thing as in Miami, only they are better at it.
They got better players, not at least a quarterback, but
they're only eight and six same as the Steelers. I
think they missed the coordinators they lost from last year
that went on to head coaching jobs. And aren't their
defensive backs like all hurt. I mean there's some question
(25:17):
marks up there.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head on all
of those departments.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
I think they're missing three of their four defense starting
defensive backs right now.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
In this game, you.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Know, I think it's going to come down to can
the Steelers stop the run again against Demir Gibs. And
you look at what he's done in wins, he's averaging
one hundred and six yards per game and losses it's
just forty two and in even like week to week,
you're talking about like two hundred and nineteen and one
hundred and forty two yard performances and wins and thirty
(25:49):
nine and thirty eight.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yard performances and losses. So if the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Honed in on the run and realized that that was
going to be their formula to win last week, it's
even more true. And it's a bigger test against a
more talented offense.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
You know, even though it's kind.
Speaker 5 (26:06):
Of wild that the Lions have gone through some dysfunction
and now Dan Campbell is calling the plays, they're still
the highest point producing offense in the league with more
than thirty points per game.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So this is going to be a big challenge for
that defense.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
Like if this defense felt like they discovered something and
turned a corner in the most recent game, they've got
six days to prove that they can actually do it
and that that's sustainable. And then, as you're mentioning I
think offensively for the Steelers, I think that there could
be opportunity for Aaron Rodgers to throw the football downfield.
One thing that I think could be a challenge is
they play a ton of man coverage and they also
(26:43):
play a lot of too high coverages, and so you're
talking about teams are going to try to match up
physically with DK Metcalf, try to be in receivers faces
to limit that short, quick passing game the Steelers have
leaned upon. And so ultimately it's going to be up
to Aaron Rodgers to expose the secondary that could be
missing some pieces.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I want to talk a bit more about the Aaron
Rodgers factor because I think it's odd Mike.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
He's either zen or a weirdo. He wants what he wants.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
He's influencing the offense in the depth chart for better
or worse.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm not sure what's really working and what isn't.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
But I do know he's playing chess out there, and
the rest of them appear to be playing checkers.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
I think that you sign up for all these things,
and I'll take it a step further.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Mark. I mean, he said a couple of weeks ago
that he felt like they didn't have good practices, and
he said maybe it was because they were practicing outside.
Mike Tomlin, who always.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
Practices outside, practically moved his practices indoors over the last
two weeks.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Now.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
They did practice at Akasher Stadium one of those days.
But I have to think that Aaron Rodgers had a
substantial say in that, and so I think that they're
kind of saying, look, this is the the date that
we invited to the prom, this is who we're going with,
and we're going to dance with them all night. And
they're they're going to go down with Rogers for better
(28:08):
or worse. And you know, Mike Tomlins said after that
win in Baltimore, you know, games like that are why
you sign up for Aaron Rodgers, And really, I.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Think that's going to be what tells the story of
the season.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
He was supposed to be supported by a consistent defense,
He's supposed to be supported by a consistent running game.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Those things have been inconsistent, and.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Now I think that they're going to end up putting
a lot on Aaron Rodgers shoulders.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And I think given the.
Speaker 5 (28:35):
Construction of the team and the way that they've allowed
Rogers to influence a number of decisions, I think that
he's going to play the biggest role in whether they're
able to win a playoff game or not.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I still feel like Week eighteen at home against Baltimore
decides the division.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It almost feels preordained. Mike, what say you.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Yeah, I would agree with you.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
I think you can go ahead and just pencil that
into a prime time game either Saturday night or Sunday night,
when they typically like to put those games when it's
winning get in.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So I completely agree with you.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
I've been saying that for weeks that I think it's
going to come down to Week eighteen, and even if
the Steeler I don't think the Steels are gonna win
this week in Detroit, and even if they beat the
Cleveland Browns, it still is probably going to come down
to that Week eighteen, and it's going to be a
huge game, and I think it's gonna be like a
lot of Steelers games where it's gonna turn out to
be kind of a coin flip that could go either direction.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
We know the teams that they could play in the
first round, assuming they win the division. Which would be
the worst matchup, which would be the most favorable matchup?
Speaker 5 (29:43):
You know, I guess the Bills would be the worst matchup,
just because they ran all over the Steelers a couple
of weeks ago. And you look historically like even when
the Steelers defense has been a lot better than spend
this year, they've completely fallen apart when they face to
Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson in the playoffs.
(30:04):
So I think that that would be probably the worst matchup.
I would say the Chargers could be the best matchup.
And I say that knowing that the Steelers went to
LA and Rogers played one of the worst games of
his career, and that defense, I think played the perfect types.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
And schematics to shut down Aaron.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
But just as we were talking about what the Lions
dealing with a number of injuries, that defense has been
ravaged by injuries, and so I think they're going to
be getting a different type of Chargers team, and especially
getting them at home.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I think I'm not sure that I would pick.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
The Steelers necessarily to win that game, but I think
that they would have a better chance of winning that
one than they would playing against the Bills.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's kind of weird.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I like draw a line assuming there's four teams they
could play, barring incredible circumstances, either be Buffalo, Houston, Jacksonville,
or the LA Chargers. I could see them having a
chance against the Chargers in Jacksonville, zero chance against Buffalo
and Houston. Like you said, Buffalo beat him badly here
in Pittsburgh. Not long ago, and I think Houston's defense
(31:07):
would break Rogers in two.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Again, I agree with you. I think that that defense
is dominant.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
I think that that defense would give the Steelers a
ton of headaches. So I agree with you, And I
don't know if I would pick the Steelers necessarily in
any of these playoff games, just given recent history and
the way that the Steelers have been so inconsistent this year.
But you could probably say that about most of the
AFC as well.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Mike has always great stuff, terrific work at the Athletic.
We'll talk to Gain next week.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
All right, sounds great, Mark, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That's Mike Defabo, brought twist by Armstrong one wire dot Com.
Up next, got a lot of national media feedback to
the Steelers winning last night, mostly good, some a bit
skeptical like I am. We got some hockey talk at
the top of the hour and again at four thirty
with Pierre McGuire, who does the best hockey talking ton
(32:01):
with me of course.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
One oh five ninety X It's The Woody Show weekday
mornings at six on one oh five nine d X.
This hour, The Mark Madten Show is brought to you
by Bud light probably served a tequila cowboy on a
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