Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm joined in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I do just want to there's been concerns raised about
the removal of counselors from senior schools in Darwin, with
a new model set to see them operate out of
the Mitchell Center. Now it could actually see teachers having
to step in to provide mental health support to students.
And I think that it's pretty safe to say that
a lot of people would be quite concerned about that,
(00:22):
given the fact that our teachers already do an enormous job.
But we've got to make sure that our students do
have the support that is required. Now, joining me in
the studio this morning is Tabby Fudge too many of
you will know NT Cogso's chair will actually the president.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Good morning to you, Tabby.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And also joining me in the studio this morning is
the captains from the Casuarina Senior College.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Now let me make sure I've got your names correct.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Catherine and Kesha, Good morning to you both. Thank you
so much for coming in this morning and taking that
time away from school to come in and have a
chat with us. Now I might ask first, why are
the school counselors so important.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Having a school beased counselors makes mental health services accessible
to all students and takes the pressure off of teachers
who are already doing so much for us. I mean,
we know about that pe freeze, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
They do so much.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think we all anybody who's either got children at
school or who is a student like yourselves at school
knows just how hard the teachers work. And a lot
of that work, you know, is all about supporting you, guys, supporting.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Students and teaching you and educating you at the same time.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Now, now there are concerns that these school counselors are
going to be removed from schools tabby and that it's
going to be sort of a universal system by the
sounds of it, where they're going to be operating out
of the Mitchell Center.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Can you tell me how that's going to work.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, quite simply, it's not going to work. They're trying
to implement a triage system where they have all of
the counselors centrally located in the Mitchell Street Center, so
we will not be seeing counselors in schools where they
should be, so they are accessible to our students so
they can make that really vital difference to the social
and emotional well being of our students. They're trying to
(02:17):
implement a triange system, and what that means is somebody
from the school will have to contact somebody within the
Mitchell Street Center. Then that person in the Mitchell Street
Center will determine as to whether or not that child
or student is eligible for counseling. They're going to make
that decision, and then who knows when that student will
have access to a counselor You know, what is the
(02:40):
ridiculous thing about this is when somebody is asking for help,
they need it now, They need it now, and then
they don't need it in a week or two time,
and they definitely don't need somebody who doesn't even know
them to be making that decision as to whether or
not they actually require the service.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Now, ladies, tell me from your at school, you know,
from what Tabby is saying there, it's incredibly important that
when you need that support, that you're able to get
it immediately. Can you talk me through why that is
so important at school?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, honestly, it's really important to be having building on
relationship consistently with this school counselor and now we'll make
a lot of changes within the student if they need
the help right now.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
How would it be if you were, you know, if
you were having to go to the school tell them
that you need that support, and then a counselor is
having to sort of be drawn in from from somewhere
else to come into the school and provide that help.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Honestly, Katie, it's unacceptable. It's putting a third party in
place where it should just be between the student and
the school counselor. Really, if they don't have the timeframe
to form that connection and we're having to delay the
provision of help, I don't understand any benefit to this model,
implementing this model for the school community, for parents, for teachers.
(04:04):
There are so many people who are affected, and this
lack of consultation between us and the people behind this
model just exhibits the lack of respect they have towards us.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Do you know what, it's such a good point that
you make, You know, when you're in a situation where
you do need that assistance, having to have a third
party there that you're having to liaise with to try
to then speak to a counselor.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It seems crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's absolutely nonsensical, and it flies in the face of
all the data, all the inquiries and center inquiries into
youth mental health and well being. There is nothing at
all data or evidence based about this. You know, when
we look at you know, the Little Children as Sacred reports.
You know, when we looked at the you know, the
(04:47):
inquiries that were done at the Department of Education right
here in the Northern Territory. You know, ten years ago,
it showed that we had to increase our number of counselors.
I think, you know, back then in the early two thousand,
we had nineteen counselors and it was determined that we
needed to increase that number. You know, at the moment,
I think we've got a really low number of councils.
(05:09):
I think we've probably got a handful of here. I
think there's only about three counselors in the Darwin region
and there's over ten thousand students in the Darwin region.
You know, there's twenty four schools. When you consider that
there's middle high schools and of course there's primary schools. Well,
this is not just a middle or high school issue.
(05:29):
This is across the board. We need counselors in every
single school, and for the Department of Education to be
removing these counselors under the smoke screen of a triange
system just speaks to exactly how out of touch they
are with what is actually happening on the ground in
our schools and how they just have no idea of
(05:51):
the need out there, of the context out there. And
this decision is one of the most nonsensical decisions I
have seen in all of my years of volunteering with
Cogso I cannot believe it. I'm just I'm absolutely gobsmacked
at this decision. And to be honest with you, yep,
you know that the cynical pessimist in me would say
(06:12):
it's actually a way of not addressing that recruitment and
retaining of counselors in the Department of It is an issue.
You know, if we can't see an absent school counselor
in a school, you know, if they're not based in
a school, we don't know about it. And I think
that's a big part of the problem here.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And the thing is, though, you guys and the students
at the school can really feel it when the counselor
is not there, can't you.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, And we just don't understand how death might have
improved such endpointant within the students.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, and well being is like, it is such an
important part of your education and of growing up, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Especially in today's social climate. I do recall the EEU
and T they said that mental well being is not
an additional or optional add on to education. It is
the core of one. And I feel like that really
resonates with me as a senior. Both of me and
Katherine are both seniors, and having that on site support
(07:10):
is very important for us. I feel like this model
also assumes that everyone has such a welcoming and strong
relationship with their parents are guardians, and that's.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Just not the case.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
A lot of students just need that third party to
speak to, just a person who's qualified. Mind you, teachers
are not qualified. Just the professional who knows the right
things to say when to intervene. Yeah, and teachers like
they're ready, They're already handling a lot of things, and
we just don't want to add on to that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Now, Tabby, can you tell me have you been in
contact with the education department? Have you been in contact
with the Minister's office. Where is this at because it
seems so it's something that's not only important to you know,
into cogso, but it's something that's really really important to
our students.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I've never been in a situation.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Before where I've had the school caps come in and
speak to me about something that they're so passionate about.
It makes me feel really proud thinking that that's the
generation that's coming up, that you're speaking up for yourselves
when you need to. But like, have you spoken to
those decision makers and what are they saying to you
at this point?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Katie, I'm standing with you right here. I'm so proud
of these school captains of Casuarina Senior College. I am
so so proud of you standing up for yourselves and
your students across the Northern Territory. You know, it's a
very powerful thing that you're doing here, and you're telling
those people within the Mitchell Street Center who are making
these I don't even have a word for it, this
(08:40):
ridiculous decision. Yes, we have spoken with the see of
the Department of Education, Karen Western, and she's adamant that
a triage model is what we need. Once Again, this
speaks to the fact that they're not talking to people
on the ground. There's been no consultation with it. Was
unaware of it, and I would go as far as
(09:03):
to say, I think she'll be pretty shocked when she
hears about it, because, as we know, Minister Law, there
is a long term territory educator, principal, departmental bureaucrat. She
knows about schools, she knows what happens in schools. She's
very in touch with what happens in schools, and she
will be shocked when she hears about this. It's just
(09:24):
it makes no sense and it flies in the face.
You know, we hear the retoric all the time of
wrap around supports in social and emotional well being and inclusion.
You know what, Counselors are a massive part of this,
and they need to be in our schools every day.
They need to be a familiar face, they need to
be accessible, they need to be able to develop relationships
(09:45):
with the student cohort at whatever school they're in, and
they cannot do that from the Mitchell Street Center. And
they cannot do that on a part time basis, you know,
a couple of hours a week or whatever. It is,
which is obviously what's happening at the moment. If we've
only got a handful of student counselors across the Darwin
(10:05):
region and we've got over ten thousand students, you know,
when the Australian Psychologists Association tells us we need a
minimum of one counselor per five hundred students, you know
it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Kisha and Catherine, can you tell me my understanding is
that casualinga Senior college have now started a petition to
keep counselors in the schools.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
How much support is it? Guarded?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Our campaign hashtag keep our Counselors to all your listeners
out there, follow us on at CCSLT. We have garnered
over five hundred signatures in just a week. We have
the support of other government schools. Yep, we will not
name because you'll see the impact that we make together
in this collaboration that we formed, and we know that
(10:52):
a lot of members of the wider community are very
enraged by this model and that they're doing their bit
to help us in this campaign.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Good on you both for having your voices heard, for
standing up and standing up on something that is really,
really important. I appreciate you both coming into the studio
with me this morning. Tabby, I really appreciate you coming
into the studio with me as well, and please keep
us up to date with any movement on this, but
also keep us up to date and let us know
how that petition progresses on. I'd be happy to have
(11:23):
you back on the show if you want to to
try to, you know, get that support of the other students.
I know they're in class right now so not listening
to the show, but to help you to to you know,
make sure that your cause is heard. I appreciate you
all so much coming into the studio today.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Thank you for having thank you. But just as a
last thing, I THP it's sort of you know, it's
part of that deterioration of those wrap around services, the
retrick that we keep hearing about. You know, school based
constables is another thing that has disappeared off the radar.
You know, there's been talk about nurses as well, so
you know, it's just it's not acceptable. We can't just
(12:02):
let it happen, and it cannot happen well.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And the thing is that there is nothing more important
than the mental health of our kids, of our young people,
particularly when you're getting through school, and if you are
prepared to speak to somebody who is a counselor rather
than going down a scary path or going down another path.
It is absolutely something that's required. And if you have
(12:27):
got those relationships with a counselor who you're able to
see regularly, it makes a massive, massive difference. So I
hope that your voices are heard. I do hope that
the Department and the Minister are listening and that they
have a rethink on this decision.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Absolutely, Sometimes somebody will only ask for help once and
after that it's far too late, and if.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
They are listening, we would just like to tell them
it's not good enough. Hashtag you for counselors.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Thank you, thank you all so much for your time
this morning.
I'm joined in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I do just want to there's been concerns raised about
the removal of counselors from senior schools in Darwin, with
a new model set to see them operate out of
the Mitchell Center. Now it could actually see teachers having
to step in to provide mental health support to students.
And I think that it's pretty safe to say that
a lot of people would be quite concerned about that,
(00:22):
given the fact that our teachers already do an enormous job.
But we've got to make sure that our students do
have the support that is required. Now, joining me in
the studio this morning is Tabby Fudge too many of
you will know NT Cogso's chair will actually the president.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Good morning to you, Tabby.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And also joining me in the studio this morning is
the captains from the Casuarina Senior College.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Now let me make sure I've got your names correct.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Catherine and Kesha, Good morning to you both. Thank you
so much for coming in this morning and taking that
time away from school to come in and have a
chat with us. Now I might ask first, why are
the school counselors so important.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Having a school beased counselors makes mental health services accessible
to all students and takes the pressure off of teachers
who are already doing so much for us. I mean,
we know about that pe freeze, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
They do so much.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think we all anybody who's either got children at
school or who is a student like yourselves at school
knows just how hard the teachers work. And a lot
of that work, you know, is all about supporting you, guys, supporting.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Students and teaching you and educating you at the same time.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Now, now there are concerns that these school counselors are
going to be removed from schools tabby and that it's
going to be sort of a universal system by the
sounds of it, where they're going to be operating out
of the Mitchell Center.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Can you tell me how that's going to work.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, quite simply, it's not going to work. They're trying
to implement a triage system where they have all of
the counselors centrally located in the Mitchell Street Center, so
we will not be seeing counselors in schools where they
should be, so they are accessible to our students so
they can make that really vital difference to the social
and emotional well being of our students. They're trying to
(02:17):
implement a triange system, and what that means is somebody
from the school will have to contact somebody within the
Mitchell Street Center. Then that person in the Mitchell Street
Center will determine as to whether or not that child
or student is eligible for counseling. They're going to make
that decision, and then who knows when that student will
have access to a counselor You know, what is the
(02:40):
ridiculous thing about this is when somebody is asking for help,
they need it now, They need it now, and then
they don't need it in a week or two time,
and they definitely don't need somebody who doesn't even know
them to be making that decision as to whether or
not they actually require the service.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Now, ladies, tell me from your at school, you know,
from what Tabby is saying there, it's incredibly important that
when you need that support, that you're able to get
it immediately. Can you talk me through why that is
so important at school?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, honestly, it's really important to be having building on
relationship consistently with this school counselor and now we'll make
a lot of changes within the student if they need
the help right now.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
How would it be if you were, you know, if
you were having to go to the school tell them
that you need that support, and then a counselor is
having to sort of be drawn in from from somewhere
else to come into the school and provide that help.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Honestly, Katie, it's unacceptable. It's putting a third party in
place where it should just be between the student and
the school counselor. Really, if they don't have the timeframe
to form that connection and we're having to delay the
provision of help, I don't understand any benefit to this model,
implementing this model for the school community, for parents, for teachers.
(04:04):
There are so many people who are affected, and this
lack of consultation between us and the people behind this
model just exhibits the lack of respect they have towards us.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Do you know what, it's such a good point that
you make, You know, when you're in a situation where
you do need that assistance, having to have a third
party there that you're having to liaise with to try
to then speak to a counselor.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It seems crazy.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's absolutely nonsensical, and it flies in the face of
all the data, all the inquiries and center inquiries into
youth mental health and well being. There is nothing at
all data or evidence based about this. You know, when
we look at you know, the Little Children as Sacred reports.
You know, when we looked at the you know, the
(04:47):
inquiries that were done at the Department of Education right
here in the Northern Territory. You know, ten years ago,
it showed that we had to increase our number of counselors.
I think, you know, back then in the early two thousand,
we had nineteen counselors and it was determined that we
needed to increase that number. You know, at the moment,
I think we've got a really low number of councils.
(05:09):
I think we've probably got a handful of here. I
think there's only about three counselors in the Darwin region
and there's over ten thousand students in the Darwin region.
You know, there's twenty four schools. When you consider that
there's middle high schools and of course there's primary schools. Well,
this is not just a middle or high school issue.
(05:29):
This is across the board. We need counselors in every
single school, and for the Department of Education to be
removing these counselors under the smoke screen of a triange
system just speaks to exactly how out of touch they
are with what is actually happening on the ground in
our schools and how they just have no idea of
(05:51):
the need out there, of the context out there. And
this decision is one of the most nonsensical decisions I
have seen in all of my years of volunteering with
Cogso I cannot believe it. I'm just I'm absolutely gobsmacked
at this decision. And to be honest with you, yep,
you know that the cynical pessimist in me would say
(06:12):
it's actually a way of not addressing that recruitment and
retaining of counselors in the Department of It is an issue.
You know, if we can't see an absent school counselor
in a school, you know, if they're not based in
a school, we don't know about it. And I think
that's a big part of the problem here.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And the thing is, though, you guys and the students
at the school can really feel it when the counselor
is not there, can't you.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah, And we just don't understand how death might have
improved such endpointant within the students.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, and well being is like, it is such an
important part of your education and of growing up, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Especially in today's social climate. I do recall the EEU
and T they said that mental well being is not
an additional or optional add on to education. It is
the core of one. And I feel like that really
resonates with me as a senior. Both of me and
Katherine are both seniors, and having that on site support
(07:10):
is very important for us. I feel like this model
also assumes that everyone has such a welcoming and strong
relationship with their parents are guardians, and that's.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Just not the case.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
A lot of students just need that third party to
speak to, just a person who's qualified. Mind you, teachers
are not qualified. Just the professional who knows the right
things to say when to intervene. Yeah, and teachers like
they're ready, They're already handling a lot of things, and
we just don't want to add on to that.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Now, Tabby, can you tell me have you been in
contact with the education department? Have you been in contact
with the Minister's office. Where is this at because it
seems so it's something that's not only important to you know,
into cogso, but it's something that's really really important to
our students.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I've never been in a situation.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Before where I've had the school caps come in and
speak to me about something that they're so passionate about.
It makes me feel really proud thinking that that's the
generation that's coming up, that you're speaking up for yourselves
when you need to. But like, have you spoken to
those decision makers and what are they saying to you
at this point?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Katie, I'm standing with you right here. I'm so proud
of these school captains of Casuarina Senior College. I am
so so proud of you standing up for yourselves and
your students across the Northern Territory. You know, it's a
very powerful thing that you're doing here, and you're telling
those people within the Mitchell Street Center who are making
these I don't even have a word for it, this
(08:40):
ridiculous decision. Yes, we have spoken with the see of
the Department of Education, Karen Western, and she's adamant that
a triage model is what we need. Once Again, this
speaks to the fact that they're not talking to people
on the ground. There's been no consultation with it. Was
unaware of it, and I would go as far as
(09:03):
to say, I think she'll be pretty shocked when she
hears about it, because, as we know, Minister Law, there
is a long term territory educator, principal, departmental bureaucrat. She
knows about schools, she knows what happens in schools. She's
very in touch with what happens in schools, and she
will be shocked when she hears about this. It's just
(09:24):
it makes no sense and it flies in the face.
You know, we hear the retoric all the time of
wrap around supports in social and emotional well being and inclusion.
You know what, Counselors are a massive part of this,
and they need to be in our schools every day.
They need to be a familiar face, they need to
be accessible, they need to be able to develop relationships
(09:45):
with the student cohort at whatever school they're in, and
they cannot do that from the Mitchell Street Center. And
they cannot do that on a part time basis, you know,
a couple of hours a week or whatever. It is,
which is obviously what's happening at the moment. If we've
only got a handful of student counselors across the Darwin
(10:05):
region and we've got over ten thousand students, you know,
when the Australian Psychologists Association tells us we need a
minimum of one counselor per five hundred students, you know
it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Kisha and Catherine, can you tell me my understanding is
that casualinga Senior college have now started a petition to
keep counselors in the schools.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
How much support is it? Guarded?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Our campaign hashtag keep our Counselors to all your listeners
out there, follow us on at CCSLT. We have garnered
over five hundred signatures in just a week. We have
the support of other government schools. Yep, we will not
name because you'll see the impact that we make together
in this collaboration that we formed, and we know that
(10:52):
a lot of members of the wider community are very
enraged by this model and that they're doing their bit
to help us in this campaign.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Good on you both for having your voices heard, for
standing up and standing up on something that is really,
really important. I appreciate you both coming into the studio
with me this morning. Tabby, I really appreciate you coming
into the studio with me as well, and please keep
us up to date with any movement on this, but
also keep us up to date and let us know
how that petition progresses on. I'd be happy to have
(11:23):
you back on the show if you want to to
try to, you know, get that support of the other students.
I know they're in class right now so not listening
to the show, but to help you to to you know,
make sure that your cause is heard. I appreciate you
all so much coming into the studio today.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Thank you for having thank you. But just as a
last thing, I THP it's sort of you know, it's
part of that deterioration of those wrap around services, the
retrick that we keep hearing about. You know, school based
constables is another thing that has disappeared off the radar.
You know, there's been talk about nurses as well, so
you know, it's just it's not acceptable. We can't just
(12:02):
let it happen, and it cannot happen well.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And the thing is that there is nothing more important
than the mental health of our kids, of our young people,
particularly when you're getting through school, and if you are
prepared to speak to somebody who is a counselor rather
than going down a scary path or going down another path.
It is absolutely something that's required. And if you have
(12:27):
got those relationships with a counselor who you're able to
see regularly, it makes a massive, massive difference. So I
hope that your voices are heard. I do hope that
the Department and the Minister are listening and that they
have a rethink on this decision.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Absolutely, Sometimes somebody will only ask for help once and
after that it's far too late, and if.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
They are listening, we would just like to tell them
it's not good enough. Hashtag you for counselors.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Thank you, thank you all so much for your time
this morning.
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