The Week That Was – 26th May 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that whilst joining us in
the studio today we have got Jared Mayley, the Deputy
Opposition Later, Good morning to.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
You, Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners. Fred's PA show
this weekend.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm going to see Keasy as Goats, she's got what.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
What about chickens? I'm interested in seeing.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
That samey I asked her during the week big question,
you know, is she going to do a demonstration of
the chicken resuscitation?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
But she she'll be which chicken?

Speaker 4 (00:27):
That's the problem.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Counseling And in the studio with us, Matt cutting in
from Sky News.

Speaker 5 (00:37):
Finally back mate and how do I follow that wid Chicken?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
And we've got Paul Kirby, the Minister for Small Business
and various other portfolios.

Speaker 6 (00:50):
Good to see you this morning, Curbs.

Speaker 7 (00:51):
How you going, Katie? How are you going?

Speaker 8 (00:52):
Everyone with freshman bass in the grass and looking to
a big weekend of footy, an amount of other things
happening as well as the Fred's past.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, there truly is so much happening. But look this morning,
I am going to start with some sad news. We
know that the state funeral for fey Miller is going
to get underway in just over an hour. She was
indeed a pioneering Territory woman. She paved the way for
many and was a strong advocate for her community. So
that state funeral is going to recognize her decades of
community service and how she meant so much to so many,

(01:20):
and I think it's really fitting that we do start
the show with that. I remember one day when we
did take the week that was to Catherine, and on
the panel that morning was Natasha Philes, Fay Miller, and
Gary Higgins. And Fay was such an advocate for the
Northern Territory and an incredible woman. She did an incredible
job as a well as an MLA and also as

(01:43):
the mayor of Catherine.

Speaker 7 (01:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I knew Faith from back in the day and she
was just a lady who just loved Catherine and if
you said anything bad about Catherine, she'd be on to you.
And then she took the whole terroryonder ring as well,
and when she become MLA. So look, it's a very
sad loss. It's going to be a sad day, and
Catherine is a loss without her.

Speaker 8 (02:00):
It is very sad, and it's appropriate to acknowledge Fay
and obviously our best wishes go to her family and friend,
but they were certainly somebody I met once i'd come
into politics and knowing her history, but she always gave
you a straight up conversation. It was never that she
was an ex member for the opposite party. It was
at Catherine's first and foremost, and as Jared said, the

(02:23):
territory as well. And she did end up moving up
to darn when we saw a little bit more of her.

Speaker 7 (02:27):
In the latter years. But yeah, it is very sad passing.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
She was a fierce advocate for her people, wilfee in it.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Of course, my favorite fem Miller story, and I think
pretty much everyone's, is the day that she stood up
to Greg Hunt and when Greg Hunt had suggested with
some colorful language that the people of Catherine should get
over the p Fast contamination scander while fem Milla was
having none of that, and I think she gave it
to Greg Hunt with both barrels. And she certainly found

(02:56):
herself right in the middle of the national stage there.
And recently we've seen compensation awarded for some of those
pfasts issues, not just for people and Catherine, but around
the country. So I think Faye deserves a lot of
credit for that.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, I generally a nice person.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, she really was a classy politician and a classy
person in general, a really strong woman, strong advocate for
the whole of the Northern Territory. So we will certainly
be thinking of Faye today and thinking of everybody at
that state funeral. Now, there is quite a lot to
cover off this morning. I do just want to make
everybody aware that I have just received information a little

(03:33):
bit earlier this morning, and we have sought clarification from
the Northern Territory Police. Not sure if we've got it
at this point, but sources have rung in to me
this morning to tell us that there was a police
officer who was involved in an incident on Lichfield Court
overnight where she was.

Speaker 6 (03:52):
Tempting to well to stop a vehicle.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm not sure whether that vehicle was stolen or exactly
what had gone on, but has been to the ground,
had to be taken to hospital. My understanding is that
she has not had to stay in hospital. But that
is the second incident that I'm aware of at Lichfield
Court this week in terms of bad behavioral. Actually it's
not only the second one. There was one earlier in

(04:16):
the week where a vehicle was stolen, somebody was punched
and threatened with a knife. But I also know, and
I have been called by a number of listeners throughout
this week to say that there's been some pretty terrible
anti social behavior around that area. An elderly man who
was being harassed yesterday and one of our listeners ended

(04:38):
up driving him home because there was a group of
young people doing the wrong thing and harassing this older gentleman.
So I don't know, we'll get some further detail throughout
the morning as to exactly what's gone on, but a
pretty terrible situation.

Speaker 5 (04:52):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, and that area there has been
a problem for a long time, Katie, and I think
even though there's a brand new police station just up
the road, the problem stay'ts seemed to be abating very much.
You really have to, like, you know, your heart goes
out to that police officer. I think a lot of

(05:13):
us would have no idea of what police on the
ground confronts every single day when they're going about their business,
and they get a lot of criticism, and I think
that this incident probably shows, you know, exactly what they're
up against a lot of the time.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I think the police do a great job on
the front line. Like everyone knows that my dad was
a police officer, and he was for many, many years,
and so I sort of lived as a young fellow
first hand to see how passionate he was. And he'd
be home, he'd get called out, he wouldn't come home,
he would go open above. And I'm sure there's lots
and lots and lots of police officers doing that right now.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
So a big shout out to them.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
I know that their survey says that the government feels
that they're not supported, and you know all that survey results,
and I just thank god that the police Minister didn't
get that sixty million dollar cut was talking about in
her budget papers. So but the police do a great
job and just goes to show that crimes out of
control and the consequences that just aren't there.

Speaker 5 (06:07):
You've got an extra yeah, I think I think we've
got an extra forty million bucks. We might talk about that.

Speaker 8 (06:14):
But I had an opportunity to catch up with some
retired police the other day and having a good chat,
and I was wonderful to see them, you know, reliving
some of their times through the territory. But I said
to those guys, if you could turn the clock back
thirty years, would you go into the force now? And
they went, I don't reckon like it is. It's it's
bloody hard work, and we do respect all the work

(06:37):
that they do. We've got to keep working hard with
the police to encourage them to stay in and there's
a lot of that work that we've done through the
Enterprise Agreement and just putting more and more cops into
the into these problem areas.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
And look, we will talk a little bit more about
exactly what's going on in that incident in Nightcliff. We'll
get some further detail throughout the morning, so to our listeners,
we'll make sure that we bring that to you throughout
the show.

Speaker 6 (06:57):
But on this note, while we.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Are speaking about our Northern Territory police officers and the
incredibly difficult circumstances that they face, I just want to
play for you some of the audio from the Senate
earlier in the week where Melandery McCarthy certainly stood up
to Lydia Thorpe, who had some very ordinary things to say.

Speaker 6 (07:17):
Take a listen, Senate.

Speaker 9 (07:19):
Senator McCarthy come to can you let what's happen, Senator
thought I have said that we've invested twenty five million
dollars for those organizations.

Speaker 6 (07:29):
Which gave the nor Territory police that you've spoken about.

Speaker 8 (07:34):
And how dare you when we have first people working
in the police.

Speaker 6 (07:38):
Force you have protecting the police.

Speaker 9 (07:40):
I'm telling you that we also had the first Nations
police who are doing their best. It's still police proved.
The police are police across the no matter what color
you are, not just police. Police brings you, obviously don't
police police million dollars.

Speaker 6 (07:58):
To want to see. Shame on No, shame shame on you.
You're the one who brings to that was killing out.

Speaker 9 (08:07):
But to your own you are an absolute you are.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
So that is just some of the audio from what
had gone down in the Senate. I was disgusted, to
be honest, when I'd heard the way that Lydia Thorpe
was speaking. I thought, good on you, Melanderie McCarthy for
standing up and saying that that is not okay, it's
not appropriate to carry on in the way that she does.
But also I think it just shows a total lack

(08:32):
of understanding from Lydia Thorpe as to the issues that
we're experiencing in the Northern Territory exactly.

Speaker 5 (08:38):
And what you have there is one person with lived
experience in a remote community of the Northern Territory and
another one with none. And it's the person with none
who's trying to sort of say, oh, you shouldn't give
them this money. Good on Maleandari McCarthy because she would
know and understand the important role that police play in
these communities. And I've heard MELANDERI and I've heard Marian
Scrimer talk about it at lengths. I mean, I don't

(08:59):
think if you and did a survey of people in
remote communities and you ask them whether they thought that
there should be policing communities, are you struggle to find
too many people who say no, we don't want them.
Absolutely yeah, out of pamnarty at the moment that they're
actually you know, crying out for more police to be there.

Speaker 8 (09:17):
Certainly, when we go to communities, that's one of the
main things that people raise is you know, what else
can we do to help out? And it's more police
And it's that community based type of policing that they
want to continue to see people that are going to
live and work and be a part of the community
with a many flitty or had been to any of
those communities in the Northern Territory. You know, to say

(09:37):
that fourteen million dollars into policing is not going to help.
On top of the one hundred and twenty odd million
that we've put in in over the last few years.

Speaker 7 (09:43):
We have to invest in that.

Speaker 8 (09:45):
And it's ridiculous to hear people from down south carry
on like that.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Just disgraceful.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
And I mean, remember this is the same person who
once when Selena Eubo was the Attorney General of the
Northern Territory, she got up in the Federal Parliament and
said that the Northern Territory Attorney General was a white man.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, and you think you've got no idea. She's looking
for a headline. But at what point do we go
this is enough. This person should not be able to
remain a.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Set of trying to raise that, Like what point is
what's a bar set at?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Because she's done this on many occasions and you can
go through and church, the socials and you know, like
when she laid in front of the police at the
the mcmarty goes just a behavior which is unacceptable for
someone who's a senator, and she needs to go.

Speaker 8 (10:28):
To be like Jared knows, And I've talked with Josh
Bergoin recently about what politicians cop and how hard we
have to work to try and raise the bar and
make sure that we are, you know, as respected as
we can be, and people doing that just makes it really,
really difficult for everybody because people just think, well, that's
the standard that we said as politicians across the board,

(10:48):
and no one's perfect.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
But she just constantly makes a mistake after mistake, outburst
after outburst, and just you know, our cops do a
great job, the territory is good, and she just tries
to talk it down for aheadline or whatever.

Speaker 7 (11:00):
Certainly didn't look like that was an accident.

Speaker 8 (11:03):
That's a defined creat a moment.

Speaker 6 (11:08):
That's her whole motive, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's to try and get a headline, no matter what
she's talking about, no matter where she is. But I
think to try and take on a senator with lived
experience to use your words there, Matt, is a bit
of a stupid move to make you know you're going
up against another Aboriginal woman, but one who actually lives
here in the Northern Territory. Who knows what's going on.
I just thought, you know, honestly, I spoke.

Speaker 8 (11:30):
To MALANDERI the next day. She's pretty calm. She had
calmed down about it. But yeah, I think she was.
You can see by the way she was behaving at
the time. Melander is very measured person and she was
just doing a lot of hard work to try and
control her comments at the time.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, I did say to her on a yes, that
I've never seen her so fight up. But you know
you need to see you need That's exactly what we
want of our Northern Territory politicians in Canberra standing.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Up for the territory, standing up for the territory. Well done.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, hey, we'll take a little bit of a break
when we come back. There is still plenty more to discuss.
You're listening to Mix one O four point nine. It
is the week that was well, it is certainly been
a busy week.

Speaker 6 (12:06):
And I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
The story that's certainly divided opinions. I think you'd have
to say was the one that the Northern Territory Chief
Minister found herself in with some anti fracking protesters.

Speaker 6 (12:17):
Now she was running the.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
West Max Monster when well, when this unfolded, I'll play
a little bit of the audio to give people a
bit of an idea of how it all went down
if you were If you haven't already heard it, take
a listen.

Speaker 6 (12:35):
Some pure artisan.

Speaker 8 (12:39):
Last year.

Speaker 6 (12:40):
It's actually quite ILUSI crated, want I run away from rating.
So look, that is part of.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
The audio there of her. You know, of what she'd
enjoyed while she was on the actual run. So look,
I think when you cross the finish line and you're
at the end of that run, it's fair game. You're
going to you understand that it's a public area and
that you may have people there that are going to
be protesting. But the thing that I found bad about

(13:16):
it is that you are edging towards the end of
a twenty five kilometer run. It is something that you're
doing in your own time. You're up on these ranges
on your own. Luckily the Chief Minister was with another person,
but you're on your own essentially, and then you are
running into a situation that you've got no idea what's
going on, You've got no phone service, and it could

(13:37):
potentially become very dangerous. Luckily it didn't, but to me,
it crosses a line for.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Me too, I think this is unacceptable behavior. And there's
alway the time and place in protests, and I'm not
saying you can't protest, but when someone's out, especially a
politician or ammediate person's out doing something like a run,
like I wouldn't be doing a twenty five k run,
but there I can do my pushbite, right, but you
don't expect and you shouldn't have to up with that
sort of behavior running through there doing that because she

(14:03):
would have been worn out. He's out there in a
beautiful country, and yet it's just unacceptable behavior.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
And I feel sorry for Natasha.

Speaker 8 (14:09):
We do, and we were talking outside about your really available,
and that's one of the good and the bad things
in the Northern Territory, and we do make herselves available.
At Basing the Grass on the weekend, I would have
had half a dozen conversations with people about a range
of different things, and some of them you can quickly
step through, and other times you ask people to give
your officer ring because you know that it's going to
be a longer, more detailed conversation.

Speaker 7 (14:30):
But the trouble is some of these just because you can.

Speaker 8 (14:33):
We do a lot of campaigning, either as elected members
or to get re elected, or to try and get
elected in the first place. Just because you can do
something doesn't mean that you should. Because yeah, if something
went wrong in a remote part of the territory, it
would have been very, very horrible.

Speaker 7 (14:46):
But what people of the public.

Speaker 8 (14:48):
Don't understand is that everybody's got other things going on
in their life. You know, I'm sure Lauren won't mind
me mentioning what she's had a lot going on in
her life, Like if she was accosted at the moment
while she's getting over some of the grief that she's
been through recently, that would be an absolute terrible thing.

Speaker 6 (15:04):
She has spoken publicly about it, has.

Speaker 8 (15:06):
Spoken publicly my family and I have been targeted, or
know that Natasha's family have been targeted. It's really really
hard work, so when you go out in public, you
are always on the edge, and one day somebody will
get a reaction that they're not expecting because we feel
that we're under threat. So happy for people to campaign,
but you just need to be a little bit cautious.
And I think this went too far.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
Yeah, I think it's disgraceful behavior, and I think we've
seen it from this particular group on too many occasions.
They're the same group that you know stormed into Michael
Gunner's office and pretended they were part of a different
group and then sort of took over the place. They've attacked,
you know, Natasha now while she's out running. I mean,
there are ways to have debates, There are ways to

(15:47):
forward your arguments.

Speaker 7 (15:48):
And be interesting to know how many people have swung
to their side, and food and the curves.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I know you said before, you know, I don't give
me a time in terms of replaying that audio, and
people would have heard that, and I understand that, Like
I think to myself, you know, you don't this kind
of behavior. You get to the point where you think
you don't particularly want to give it air time, But
then you also understand there are people with concerns if
they have every right to protest, but there is a

(16:15):
time and a place and a way to do it,
in my opinion, need to be called out.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
It is unacceptable and don't do it. We're just normal
human beings no matter what you do, and it's unfair
to have.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
What do you make of the argument and I know
that we've heard this a few times on our tech
sign and also people calling through saying well, now you know,
now we've got a politician who understands how people are
feeling on the streets at the moment where it's a
dangerous situation for some in terms of you know, the crime.
And I understand what they're saying that, yes, we are
all going through a very difficult situation where personal safety

(16:47):
feels as though it's under thresh.

Speaker 6 (16:49):
But again, I just I.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Don't think that this is the same situation. This is
essentially targeting somebody.

Speaker 8 (16:55):
If people think like we live in the community, we
you know, will talk about the issues in a different
manner because that's our job to try and explain to
people that we understand and promote the positive work that
we're doing. And you know, the opposition and media sometimes
have different roles in that. So people don't need to
think that we're oblivious to it. We absolutely live in
the community. The tiny electorates that we have, we have

(17:18):
first name basis with a big part of our electorate,
so you know, calling out stunts for exactly what they
are and like I said, just because you can do something, well,
they could helicop her into the footy.

Speaker 7 (17:28):
On the weekend. Does that mean they should do it?
Absolutely not.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Yeah, I agree, I just I think it's terrible behavior.

Speaker 5 (17:35):
And I think you know, whether you agree with the
Chief Minister or not on various issues, and God, we
give her a hard time constantly, Katie, whether it's you
on radio or me in the paper, or whatever the
case may be, at press conferences. But you know, to
her credit, you know, you turn the cameras off while
you turn the microphones off, and she never holds that
against you. She's always respectful, she is, absolutely and you know,

(18:00):
I think, criticize her government and her policies as much
as you like, but do it in a respectful way.
Don't harass her while she's out running. That's that's just
ridiculous and it's completely.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Uncalled forepecially in the Miller know where where she was.

Speaker 8 (18:13):
Twenty five ks for anybody to do, but a person
that's Scott on her plate. What the Chief Minister has
to be able to find the time to do the
training for that type of endurance race and then to
be able to do the race and complete it. I
had an ABCD No ask me either the Chief Minister
looked visibly upset at the end of the race, and
I went, yeah, I could cry and do if I

(18:34):
just run twenty five k's. But congratulations SATs and happy
birthday Natasha as well for today.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
Happy birthday you've just outed.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
We are also hearing that now the anti franking protesters
have apparently changed themselves to drilling equipment this morning at
East arm I don't have that footage or anything, but
time and a place.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
That I'm saying, you know, protest if you want to,
but do it respectively, and don't do it we only
get damage to damn each other people's privately.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
I also think we're seeing.

Speaker 5 (19:05):
I think times have changed, and I think the social
media has had a lot to do with it. I
think you see that people on social media feel like
they can say whatever they want, no matter how you hurt,
from offensive, whatever it is. And now I think we
see a bit of that spilling out into real life.
You know, I'm not sure that thirty years ago we'd
have seen a chief minister attacked in public like that,

(19:28):
and now it seems to becoming an increasingly common event.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
You know, we saw at the one.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Of the rallies during COVID where they were shouting out
Michael Gunner's address and basically saying it was a snake
who lies down at this address, And it was pretty
clear that the insinuation was, you know.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
We're going to go and get him.

Speaker 9 (19:48):
You know.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
I just think it's totally uncalled for behavior. It's not
what you know we're about here. And just from that.

Speaker 8 (19:55):
Any other part of ours would we put up with
a school kid being treated like that. I saw kids
chasing another person like that across an oval. You'd go, hey,
if it was happening out in the streets and somebody
was being chasing harass like that, you would pull it up.

Speaker 7 (20:11):
So, yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 8 (20:12):
Social media has changed scenes and post COVID things have
changed a lot, and iun known Natasha tried to speak
through that the other day, But the high little briefings
that we get not just for elected members but even
for senior bureaucrats and people not just here but around
the world, the threat levels have changed, and it's just
something that we don't need to be like that in
the territory.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
Better than that, I've only had that, you know, the
great irony with what happened to Natasha. The other day
is I don't think we've ever had a greener chief
minister in all the territory's history. She's probably been, you know,
the most. She's probably done more than any politician in
this place to sort of put the regulations around the

(20:53):
onshore gas industry and to sort of even try and
stand in their way at times. So you know, the
fact that she's copping it certainly well.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
And look, I am now seeing photos of, you know,
of this protest that's going on this morning as well.
So apparently they've chained themselves to this drilling equipment and anyway,
we'll wait and see what happens with that one.

Speaker 6 (21:17):
Pretty unbelievable stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
And look, I wonder as well, and I do think
to myself, and I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. I
know what happens on both sides of the fence, But
sometimes the extreme left, you know, they do think that
they're okay to say and do what they please because
they feel as though what, you know, their opinion is
the right one, and that when it comes to you know,
fracking and not wanting it to go ahead, they feel

(21:39):
as though that opinion is the right one and it's
the only opinion that should be heard.

Speaker 7 (21:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I know that it's the same on the extreme right,
so I'm not pretending that it's only on one side
and not the other. But you know, most of Australia
sits in the middle. They don't sit on those extreme sides.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
What about the innocent people in the moms and days?
You just want to go to work when they've blocked
this harbor bridge and probably probably doesn't have a toim
I can dark that traffic is not quite as bad,
but they inconvenience so literally millions of people for their
point of view, which is why should they impinge on
all those people just doing their day to day business
for their point of view? I just think they want
to protest, great, but do it respectivelly, Yeah, do it

(22:15):
in a good place and where no one's going to
get hurt or not going to impingeent and affect on
these four moms and days who are just paying the bills.

Speaker 6 (22:23):
Look, we're going to take a bit of a break.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
six eed is the week that was in the studio
with us this morning. If you've just joined us, we
have got Paul Kirby Matt Cunningham.

Speaker 6 (22:32):
And Jared Mayley.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Now, Matt a story by you throughout this week sky
News reporting that Northern Territory Police conducted surveillance on the
Children's Commission at Colleen Gwinn's home during their failed attempt
to prosecute her over allegations of abusive office. Now detectives
diary notes obtained by you show that officers cased out
the Nightcliff home where she was living with her children,

(22:55):
and that was all in relation to the investigation into
an emp eployment matter in late twenty eighteen. Follows on
from further reports from you this week, talk us through
exactly what you found.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
Well, I'll tell you what, Katie, the more that I
dig into this matter, the more I am alarmed at
what happened. In with the case of Colin Gwynn. The
accusation against her was that she hired her friend as
the assistant commissioner. Now, it needs to be pointed out
that her friend, Laura Juson, was one of two people

(23:30):
who an independent panel had deemed was.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
Suitable for the role. That she appointed her too.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
She sought the advice of the HR director at the
Department of Attorney General and Justice, who sought the advice
from the Officer of the Solicitor General who told her
she was okay to do this. Okay, I'm not sure
what else she could have done in that situation. That event,
after a complaint was made, has sparked a three year

(23:58):
police investigation that has included her home surveillance on her
home where she was living with her primary school aged children,
her office being bugged, her phone being tapped, Officers flying
to four different states, four senior detectives working on the
case at any one time, flying to four different states
to investigate witnesses over what essentially was a hr employment

(24:23):
matter and which in the end is exactly what the
Supreme Court deemed when they threw the matter out of court.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I just don't understand why that level of resourcing was
used on on that case.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
Well, this is the very good question as to why
such a huge level of resources and such a huge
effort was put into this investigation. Remembering that Colin Gwynn
is a former senior police officer and that she is
the former head of Professional and ethical Standards within the

(24:59):
Northern Tier Territory Police, right, so you have to start
asking the question as to why such extreme lengths were
taken to try and secure this prosecution. And I think
there are questions that need to be asked of both
the police and the DPP about this, and at the
moment we're really only getting standard answers in response to them.
The other thing that we revealed last week is that

(25:21):
those same detectives notes show that there was one crucial
piece of information that, in the words of those detectives,
would mean the whole job is gone, and that was
confirmation from Brian Mappis, the HR director at the Department
of Attorney General in Justice, and from the Officer of
Solicitor General that Colin Gwinn had been given that advice

(25:43):
that she had the legal authority to appoint Laura Jucein
to that position. They got that evidence, they confirmed that
bit of evidence, and they still investigated for another sixteen months,
running surveillance on her home, bugging her offers, tapping her
phone until they eventually charged her, and it takes three
years before it gets to the Preme Court and it
gets thrown out before the defense has presented any evidence.

(26:08):
I just it's just mind boggling to me, and I
can't understand now why the Northern Territory government doesn't take
some action and either call an inquiry or referre to
to ikak because there's a lot here.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
To me that just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
And you go back a step further when I read
the story she was saying that she called into the
Chief Ministers Office saying that we're not going to renew
your contract.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
We want an original commissioner. How is all that involved?
Did that starting thing off? How's that?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
It's just really it's time for the attachment files to
stump up and not just give those standard answers say
I'm not going to comment. She needs to come clean
and say exactly what the government involvement was, what happened,
because this is just a dog's breakfast.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
Well, I think that's why we need an inquiry because
now we have all of these questions about all of
these things, and I think the only way to look
at what's happening in the Act right with the Lerman
Higgins case, the Act government, there's clear the issues there,
there's disagreements between the police and the DPP. They call
a public inquiry. That public inquiry now is allowing the

(27:08):
Act government to get to the bottom of the matter.
But more importantly, it's restoring the public's fund trust.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
In the system.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
And I think that that the public's trust in the
system at the moment is wavering because we've seen cases
like this that on their surface at least just do
not look right.

Speaker 8 (27:25):
And look, I won't make comment, and that'll annoy you
about not making any comment. But you know, Colin is
obviously well known through the territory. Anybody that's had anything
to do with AFL or policing or many other sectors
knows Colleens.

Speaker 7 (27:39):
I won't step into that.

Speaker 8 (27:40):
But the IKAK, for example, well, that's one of the
reasons why we did bring an Eyekak in.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
And so you've seen what I've written, you've seen what's
been reported.

Speaker 7 (27:50):
It don't read your stuff, I'll.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Send it to you.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
But should it be referred to IKAK at.

Speaker 7 (27:57):
Least that is obviously an option for people going forward.

Speaker 8 (28:01):
So yeah, I can't comment about whether it should or
it shouldn't, or whether people will or won't. We don't
get alerted to whether it has or hasn't because there
is that separation. I think the acting could be Commissioner.
Police Commissioner spoke through that yesterday.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
I mean you touched on there as well, like you've
spoken about her AFL background and also you know the
work that she's done as a Northern Territory police officer.
And the thing that really sort of gets me is
I think this is a woman who's done so much
over her career and so much that you could really
look at and as a human feel very proud of
and think, well, you know, she's done a lot in

(28:39):
a positive way, and her name's been completely and utterly
dragged through the march as a result.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Or tax pays money is going to be paid to her,
just like the police commissioner, purely the result of the
bungle by the non Turkey government.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Well, this is the thing or should she actually, you know,
should she go back into the role And you know,
I don't know whether that is even an option now,
but when you actually go back and look at the
work history of what she did as the Children's Commissioner, Matt,
I think you've written about it before. You know, the
number of investigations that she completed, the number of different
things that she had done in that role really stands

(29:16):
to show you that she was doing a very good job.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
Well, and I mean this goes back to the questions
that now surround this case. Did that have anything to
do with the way that she was treated? She had
produced damning investigations that had been critical of the government,
that had been critical of the police.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
You know, her reporting to.

Speaker 5 (29:33):
The rape of the two year old girl in TenneT
Creek is absolutely devastating and it's gathing of the government
and government agencies, you know. And not long after she
delivers that report, she finds herself under investigation, high level
police investigation over what essentially amounts to a HR matter.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I don't know, files to come clean and not just
give those standard answers. They've got access to all the records,
they know what's going on. Ginis to come through and
tell territories exactly what involvement was and come clean.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, and see, we're not going to get that answer
from Paul Kirby this morning. So let's move along because
there's a few things that our listeners have been really
very concerned about this week, and one of those is
we spoke to the driver of one of the Blue
Taxi mini buses who throughout the week had a knife
thrown at his vehicle. I'm not sure if you've seen

(30:28):
the photos that have come through in the aftermath.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
But we spoke to him yesterday.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
I think it was so the day before on the show,
and he'd spoke about his absolute fear the fact that
he was driving that minibus and had a knife thrown
shattering the window. He said that it's not the only
time that something like that has happened. It was a
pretty horrifying situation. But then on top of that, that
same day we also interviewed Kylie, a lady who lives

(30:54):
in Karama, and she talked to us about some of
the really serious concerns that she's got in the suburb
of Karama, in you know housing, you know, like in
a unit complex there across the road from the shopping
center in Karama, and and you know, she'd said that
at different times there's been gangs of youths in the
car park. She's on a walking you know, she's on

(31:17):
a walking frame. She said she she feels incredibly frightened
to go across the road to get to the shops
to go and do her daily business, and that you know,
even for senior people that live in the same.

Speaker 6 (31:28):
Area, they're feeling really worried as well.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Brian O'Gallagher, the local counselor, had spoken to us on
the show.

Speaker 6 (31:33):
He came up with a bit of.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
A four point plan actually where he had called for
temporary police presence, so to have temporary or you know,
whether it was permanent small police presence, or whether there
could be a small amount of temporary police presence there
to try and really.

Speaker 6 (31:52):
To take some action for what is going on in
that suburb.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
It shows back to you know, issues on crime. You
know the opposition Bang I met this all the time.
We say that the Labor government have putting out this
message up there soft in crime, taking away the consequences
like the two K staff and drinking. It's really time
that territories are sick of it. Something needs to happen
and the Labor government, you know, there's been protests on
the Parliament House.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
I've been there.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Leah our leader, she did a roadside in Crama about
six weeks ago and spoke to his residents.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
She was saying that kids are.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Coming home from work, they ring up their mums and dads,
they say is it safe to come up the street?
So you know, and that's from people firsthand living in
the area. So it just really goes to show that
the territorians are just seeking tired of the crime and
it's time for the labor government to stump up and
do something about it. We can talk all we want
about it, I love government's been in power for six
years and saying oh, it's generational and that sort of stuff,

(32:44):
but you look at the status of the figures, they're
not going down or saying the same, actually getting worse.
So whatever's happening is not working because the crime.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Look at the evidence.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
The crime figures are going up and people are getting stabbed.
We've had unfortunate deaths about it.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
It's just out of control.

Speaker 8 (32:58):
We have had some atrocious incidents and nobody from our
government is denying that. But what we will continue to
do is that hard work with police and will continue
to explain to people we have put one hundred and
twenty million dollars extra in police, not just police security
services to help out with This is something that particularly
Nari Kit has been on the front foot with in

(33:19):
Karama for a long long time making sure that we
have got extra security around those shopping.

Speaker 6 (33:24):
Center security just on the security.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
One of the criticisms that we've had from from locals
and I want to point this out so that you
guys are aware, if you've not already been told, is
that they have got a situation. They tell me the
people living in Karama where sometimes what will happen is,
you know, people will be stealing something from the bottle shop,
or they'll be stealing something from wherever or doing the
wrong thing. You approach the security, they say, we can't

(33:47):
do anything. We actually can't pull them up.

Speaker 8 (33:51):
Well, and I know we're working really closely with the
security guards. We've obviously through the course of just the
last few weeks, put a range of extra initiatives in place.
It's not just if we go back to where the
story started about taxi drivers here, people in public transport,
it is quite often an area where antisocial stuff happens.
So it has been something we've identified, recognized and put

(34:11):
some extra measures in place to try and make sure
that people are safer when they're traveling on public transport.
So there is a range of things that's been done.
There's a range of stuff that will continue to be
done to try and make people say return to country,
and a range of other menasguers like.

Speaker 7 (34:25):
It's really widespread and it's really deep.

Speaker 8 (34:27):
And I'm happy to talk more about it, but I
know we've got a range of things that will get
through today.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
How do you say one thing?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Like the government keep saying they put all this one
hundred and twenty million dollars into the police, but their
annual report last year said there's thirty five less officers.
So you know that's a bit of evidence from the
police and your reports saying it's actually less police officers.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
So how to explain that, mister Kirby.

Speaker 8 (34:45):
Well, you know, Jared, that we've committed to putting extra
police on them, will continue to train police. We know
that when you guys last have an opportunity, you're committed
to train police and then didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
So last year the police and your report said there's
thirty five less officers on the street.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
How to explain that to territorians.

Speaker 7 (35:02):
We working really hard with police.

Speaker 8 (35:04):
We did a ranger work through their enterprise agreement to
make things more attractive for people to stay here and
get people that might not have been on the front
line for quite some time back into the to know this.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Obviously, there was this media event that was held yesterday
where the Acting Police Commissioner Michael Murphy was out with
Kate Warden, the Police Minister, saying that the government is
doing more to bolster the police force and are saying
that since twenty sixteen there are over two hundred and
thirty additional police and an additional one hundred and twenty

(35:35):
five million dollar boost to the Northern Territory Police. So
I think that, you know, I get what the government's
saying that there is being additional money invested into boosting
those numbers. But I think that you know, then for
people like those that are living in Karama that are saying, okay,
well can we have at least a temporary police presence
there to try and curb some of those issues, I

(35:57):
guess that it's you know, those numbers and not really
going to or whether they've been bolstered or not, is
not really going to get through to territories until they
can actually see those police officers in the areas where
they feel like they need them.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Even on the ABC this morning, they're interviewing Joe was
interviewing a lady who a business or a yoga I
believe a yoga.

Speaker 6 (36:18):
Studio who'd been in a pretty terrible.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Situation where somebody was either you know, on drugs or
in a pretty bad state, trying to get into their studio.

Speaker 6 (36:28):
It sounded frightening.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
And she had said that they'd called the police and
had tried, you know, like the police had said, okay,
well look has he gone, I think, and yes he had.

Speaker 6 (36:38):
So are you going to send somebody out? Well, no,
they weren't.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
And you know, for whatever reason that is, but that
doesn't to me. I think that the community's expectation is
that when something really traumatizing like that happens, where somebody's
trying to get into your business, or where you're broken into,
or where you've had a really frightening situation unfold, the
community ex spectation is that somebody comes out to them

(37:03):
and sees them. Now. I know that our police are
under the pump. I know they do a bloody hard job.
But the expectation is when something like that goes on,
that you're going to interact then with the police officer.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Yeah, I agree, And I think there was a stat
that the acting Commissioner gave us a few weeks ago
during a press commerce that I think tells a bit
of this story, because we're talking about basically maintaining the
number of police at a status quo level, trying to
try to account for those people who leave and then

(37:36):
replacing them and perhaps increasing numbers slightly. But Michael Murphy
at this press Conrace said that a decade ago they
were responding to ten thousand jobs a month and now
they're responding to thirty thousand, which would presumably mean we
need three times as many police as we had ten
years ago if we're going to have the same level
of response. I mean, sadly, we've seen a huge increase

(37:58):
in the number of issues that are being ported to police,
and as a consequence, because we don't have the you know,
the same level or the increased level of police, were
unable to deal with that.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
And that's why you get.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Situationd with it in the ECLP, you know, with Arthur
inquiries into police resourcing, their survey last year says I
think it was ninety seven percent feel unsupported the same
about saying there's not enough resources. It just goes to
show that, you know, the police do a great job.
But it goes back to the message that the labour
say soft on crime, do what you want to do.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
More criminals can go away.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
With it.

Speaker 8 (38:33):
Catchphrases aren't going to get us through this, Jared, and
I think people understand we are doing that hard work.

Speaker 7 (38:39):
We did that. Yes, there was a police there was.

Speaker 8 (38:41):
A survey went out last year as a part of
the Enterprise agreement negotiations. You know how much that enterprise
agreement got voted up by police by eighty five percent? Okay,
So we did a lot of hard work with police
and really respectful with the Police Association to delvin and
target at what some of the problems are about people

(39:01):
being off or stood down or on sickly for long
periods of time and assisting and wrapping around those police
officers to get them the support they need to.

Speaker 7 (39:10):
Get back to work.

Speaker 8 (39:11):
So that agreement got voted up by eighty five percent.
That gives you some indication there is a level of
confidence that we're working really closely through with our police
and with our Police association.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
And is it right because there's been a bit of
confusion about that.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Part of what was put to police as part of
that agreement was that there would be an inquiry into
police resourcing.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Yeah, absolutely right, So what's happening with that?

Speaker 8 (39:32):
Yeah, that's working its way through there's a range of
initiatives that we need to get in place, and that
broad based inquiry into how many police we genuinely need
through the Northern territory.

Speaker 6 (39:43):
We all do it.

Speaker 8 (39:44):
We're doing the same with corrections offices like it's a
pretty standard piece.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
So is it started that inquiry?

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Has that started?

Speaker 8 (39:52):
The pre words start the work that the information that
we need to gather to legitimately work through and debate
those issues has started, right.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
And when do you reckon? We'll have that. When you reckon,
we'll be wrapped up. And will it be made public
when it's finished?

Speaker 8 (40:06):
Happy to make it public as much of that information
as we can. I can't tell you an absolute finish date,
but I think I know where your questions are heading to.
When it was first announced, somebody announced that it was
going to happen after the election.

Speaker 7 (40:18):
It was nothing about I.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Think I got my hands on yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 (40:23):
But there was never there was never any intent or
assertions from us that it couldn't happen until after the
next election.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
So it's definitely going to happen before the next election.

Speaker 7 (40:34):
That the work will start. Absolutely, we can.

Speaker 6 (40:36):
Finished before.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
You can get it done. Come on, we did one
when I was at Power and Water.

Speaker 8 (40:43):
That was a really intense look at the maintenance of
every piece of equipment and that took years for us.

Speaker 6 (40:49):
That's a bit different. That's a bit different.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
I mean when you're talking about staffing levels and you're
talking about because we had to wait. We were told
that we had to wait for these new rostering system
to come into play yet, the electronic rostering system. So
it's I believe it's is it in place, I don't
know for years. Yeah, but you would the record, Yeah,
so you would.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
You would hope that we're able.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
To get this before the next Northern Territory election because
it is a point of contention. It is something that
people are concerned with, and I don't think that it's
just something that people within the police force are concerned with.
It has become an issue that the broader community is
concerned with, because then when you have a situation where
somebody calls the Northern Territory Police and they're keen for
them to come out after something's happened, and they're told

(41:32):
that unfortunately, you know, they're not available, they're at a
you know, we understand that they're triaging, they're at another job.
That's when the wider public starts to go, well, hang
on a second, have we got enough Northern Territory Police?
And that's where we all end up having a laugh
and thinking that Lydia Thorpes lost the plot when she's
saying that money shouldn't be invested into police, when for
us here on the ground, we're going, hang on a second.

(41:54):
We just want the Northern Territory Police to be able
to get out when required, and we want them to
feel as though there's enough of them to be able
to do what the community expects.

Speaker 7 (42:04):
Yeah, absolutely so, Toway. And that's why we'll continue to
work closely with police.

Speaker 8 (42:07):
And you're alluded to this person that in one of
those initial examples about you know, being on drugs or
something like that, and unfortunately society has changed and some
of the drugs that people use now do some really
nasty things to their brains and they do react and
behave really really poor.

Speaker 6 (42:23):
Which is even more to the point.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Then if it is a situation like that and then
nobody goes out to you know, if like to that's
to that incident where it's really pretty scary for the
person that's the victim.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
And wouldn't you know, all the reason we're talking about
now make it more important to get this survey done, dusted,
find out results out, then go and fix the police
force and give them the resources they need and given
them the police officers they need, because it all comes
back to the safety of territorians, and right now territorians
are screaming out saying I don't feel safe. What's going on.
It's not the same territory that it used to be.
I'm hearing out a lot.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
He's doing the inquiry.

Speaker 7 (43:01):
Now, that's a good question.

Speaker 8 (43:02):
I'll have to go back and have a look at
whether there was big Sometimes when you set those inquiries up, sometimes,
like with the corrections, it'll be agreement between the unions
and the management about who's taking part in that. Sometimes
is an independent expert, As I mentioned the one that
we did with Power and Watar to have some complete independence,
there was an electrical engineering expert came in from into state.

Speaker 7 (43:23):
To assist with that.

Speaker 8 (43:23):
I'd have to double check on what level of independence
we agree to with that one.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Those discussions had with the union and police it about
who's going to do it that does that happen.

Speaker 8 (43:31):
Absolutely, That's why the agreement was signed by and agreed
to you by eighty five.

Speaker 7 (43:35):
Percent of the police officer.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
The independent inquiry you're sorting it started, But have you
had those discussions who are going to run the inquiry?

Speaker 8 (43:42):
I'm saying that the information that we need to get
to gather to contribute towards all of those discussions, all
that body of work's happened, and i'll certainly o'll double
check on that exactly who's sitting on the inquiry.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
We will take a really short break. You are listening
to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is
the week that was. It is nearly time to wrap
up before we do. Though, plenty happening around the Northern
Territory this weekend, and in some good news, a permit
is going to be issued for the car section of
the Think Desert Race. It is subject to the introduction
of a suite of new safety measures. But it's scheduled

(44:12):
to take place during the King's Birthday long weekend. That
sounds a bit funny saying that, doesn't it, rather than
the Queen's Birthday.

Speaker 7 (44:18):
Doesn't roll off the tongue just yet.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
No, no, not yet, but that's on that weekend of
June nine to.

Speaker 6 (44:23):
Twelve, So that is good news.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
But there's lots on this weekend, the footy and plenty
of other events, the Fred's Partialal Show.

Speaker 7 (44:31):
How many soirees on as well.

Speaker 8 (44:33):
We've got a new little Pixar put put down at
the waterfront kids down there.

Speaker 7 (44:37):
That's very, very fun.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Just a quick shout out to the Fred's past show. Remember,
and I's in the rulery but anyone from the city
can come from parmaat Rural Show and the Key is
going to have a chickens there and all that sort.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Of stuff of the baby goats and I'm going to
be taking four kids out there tomorrow morning at nine.

Speaker 6 (45:00):
O'clock to see the baby guys.

Speaker 8 (45:01):
Yitful things the rural shows, the wood chopping, that's always
a big event. Yeah, but now the footy is on.
Good luck to all the territory leads that are playing
in the footy. We know they love coming home and
showing off in front of their home crowd. So hopefully
that's a cracking game on the weekend. Think will be great.
Is so important for the Central Australia and a range
of other things over the next couple of weeks as well.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
We are going to catch up with Daniel Rochford from
Tourism Central Australia after ten o'clock as well and just
have a chat to him about some of those great
events and what it means to the territory and certainly
Central Australia given the fact that the think is still
going ahead. So gentlemen, thank you all so very much
for your time this morning. Jered Malee from the COLP, thank.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
You, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you. Thanks WILLV and
Paul Kirby from the ALP. Minister for various portfolios, thank you.

Speaker 8 (45:49):
The fun ones that major events at the moment as
basing the grass last weekend.

Speaker 7 (45:53):
I'll show you some photos. It's a cracking weekend and
we'll do it again next year.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Well Gin know what I thought. Goodness me, I'm gonna
have to start taking my kids soon enough.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
The first time, the last one we took Laila Dam.

Speaker 8 (46:06):
We took Laila Dam for the first couple of hours
and then took her home.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
And went back.

Speaker 6 (46:12):
On that night.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
We'll wrap up.

Speaker 6 (46:14):
Good on you all. Thanks so much for your time
this morning.