Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me on the line is the opposition's spokesperson for education.
She's also the member for Catherine Joe Hersey. Good morning
to you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners. Are very busy day, Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and Joe. We'll get to the education stuff
from yesterday in just a moment. But this morning I've
been keeping an eye on budget estimates and I see
that the opposition leader Leofanocchiro has attempted on several occasions
to ask the Police Minister, Kate Warden, who's in the
hot seat this morning, just how much the police commissioner,
(00:33):
the former police Commissioner Jamie Chalker, was paid out. And
it seems that it's been very difficult to get a
response to that answer.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, question correct, Katie.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's just been appalling. The Police Minister did not give
an opening statement, which is this is a time, Katie,
when the Police Minister can tell towards territory in about
the positive things that are happening in police. The fact
that the chair shut down the very first question, now,
let's what.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Was the reason for that?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
What did he say, Joe, what was the reason for that?
What did he say? Because a lot of our listeners
won't have been watching. They're going to be hearing this
for the first time. So I'm assuming that Lee has
attempted to ask a question about how much is paid
out and Brent Potter, the chair, has shut that question down.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, it wasn't in the reporting period, and he kept
on going back to say that he was very strictly
keeping to the period that we were asking questions on
up until the March thirty. But it's quite astonishing really that,
you know, we are given latitude sometimes to ask questions,
(01:42):
and that's what the whole of a budget estimate is about.
It's not unusual, you know, for the government to give
latitude in asking questions that pertain to him, you know,
what is important to territorient Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I've just got my hands on a bit of that audio,
so we're are just going to play a little bit
of that for our listeners right now.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Take a listen, Police minister, do you know how much
Jamie Chilker was paid out? No, And so if you
don't know how much he was paid out, you have
no idea how it's impacted your budget's bottom line.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
That's incorrect? On this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that I'm not that
was a confidential payout, so I'm not going to discuss
that any further.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
But we were told yesterday by the Treasurer that the
entire payout came from the police bottom line. So that means,
as Minister, you must know what hit your department has
taken to pay for that payout.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
So the Commissioner's numeration does fall under our budget, as
does any CES renumeration within their department budgets, and it
would be totally inappropriate to no line by line around
any separations from any agency. So no, I don't know
(03:10):
the exact figure.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So you just have a global separations budget with no oversight.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I think I've answered the question, Joe.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Do you think we're ever going to get an answer
to that question?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, quite extraordinary from the Police Minister. Katie, the Opposition
leader was not asking. You know, obviously the Police Minister
was saying it's confidential, and then when further questions were asked,
she still couldn't answer that. And just you know, it
has to have make a difference to the bottom line, Katie,
(03:46):
and that is to you know, the operational and the
hard working police out there. Something has to give when
you were taking a considerable which what we are assuming
is a considerable amount to pay out Jamie.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Chalker, Joe, let's move along to what unfolded yesterday, and
we know that things got pretty heated when you'd asked
some questions about the impact that crime was having on education.
Now what exactly were you trying to get to the
bottom off.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, the fact is, Katie, we want teachers, staff, support staff, students.
They all need to be safe in a school environment.
And there's already been eight incidents this year alone with
an edge weapon. Twenty eight teachers have been injured this
year and twenty five in the previous year. So what
(04:39):
I'm trying to ask the Education Minister was about safety
four people in a school environment, and she just went
off her tree. Basically, it was very unparliamentary. She called
me pathetic, which was just out of line, and you know,
quite appalling that the Education Minister. You know, it's up
(05:03):
for me to ask the questions. She's there to answer them,
not sling mud at me for standing up for territory
in and in fact education. I talk to a lot
of people in education, teaches students right across the territory
when I'm traveling, and that you know, even the Education
Union was in support of the line of questioning yesterday.
(05:24):
So I've had a lot of support in the line
of questioning that I had because the first and foremost
it's about people being safe in a school environment. If
people can't be safe in a school environment, you know,
that's what I wanted the education ministers to be over.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, and I mean, at the end of the day, unfortunately,
crime is at the forefront for absolutely everybody. You know,
we don't want to be talking about it in the
way that we are, but we don't want to be
feeling unsafe in the way that we are. And that's
really at the heart of why those questions are being asked.
I would understand and assume based on the conversations that
you have with people.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
In your electorate and other electorates.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Joe, So that INFOSO eight incidents for edged weapons this
year alone to April, as well as twenty eight teachers
injured this year twenty five the previous year. Was that
information that you did actually glean from yesterday?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No, we I already knew that you know, going in
and the the the education minister. Yeah we did, we
did find that out, but but you know, it's just
the fact that we brought this information to highlight the
fact that, you know, safety was important in a school environment,
(06:42):
and as you say, crime is on the forefront of
everyone's minds across the territory. So I don't know why
she was surprised. And then you know, to me, Katie,
it just says everything you need to know about this government.
When they get our important questions, they'll shut you down,
so hurling insults, she called me pathetics, and then we
(07:03):
had the chair actually shut down the meeting for a
few minutes so you know the minister could get herself
together and want to carry on.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
It was extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Look in the times that I've been watching estimates, which
is certainly over the last ten to fifteen years, not
I can't recall something.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Like that happening to that degree.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I thought it was pretty extraordinary scenes what we'd seen,
But it was also I thought, you know, out of
character from what I would expect from the Education Minister,
who usually does keep pretty level headed. Joe, I guess
from to play devil's advocate here, you know, she is
suggesting that you should have been asking more questions about
(07:42):
the education portfolio.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Rather than crime.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, I'm assuming that you did ask plenty of
other questions about education as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Absolutely, Katie, we asked, you know, lots of things about education.
About attendance. You know, we have the lowest attend that's
in the country. Not one of our regions is up
to the benchmark of the national average, which is just appalling.
So you know, in actual fact, you know, in the
(08:14):
region of the Barkley, you know, their attendance rate was
extremely low. So there's been an education strategy, an engagement strategy,
which has cost ten million dollars, and this is to
engage students to get to school. And when we still
cannot come up to the national average, that's just appalling
(08:38):
to know. You know, ten million dollars has been sent
a spense and we can't we can't even get engagement.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, we've got I mean, fundamentally, we have to get
it right. We've got to get it right when it
comes to education. We've got to make sure that kids
are attending school. Was there any information gleaned with respect
to kids not attending school who are committing crimes because
you've experienced that in Catherine recently.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
We have. And when I asked the minister that, she
said if those crimes happen outside the school, that is
a police matter. She didn't. She just shut that down.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Okay, Joe, was there any update on the school counselors yesterday,
because that's been a real point of contention for a
lot of our listeners and a lot of you know,
we've spoken to two nt cogso and also to students
who are really concerned about changes to the way in
which those counselors are going to be operating.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, Katie, So the minister said there was some misunderstanding
that wasn't actually going to happen where they are all
going to go to the Mitchell Street Center. Yet we
know that more than five hundred students signed a petition
launched by Catherina Senior College against this new model, and
the Treasurer didn't even respect that response that they've had.
(10:00):
All counselors are a vital part in a school environment,
and the fact that they if you don't have a
counselor in your school, you are not going to be
bringing up someone to then have those that counselor talked
to you over the phone or make an appointment to
see them. They need to be building relationships in schools
(10:20):
with students and so the minister. So maybe there was
a you know, miscommunication there, but I had it on
very good authority from you know, cog So. I spoke
to them about the school counselors and that was the
information that they had given me, as well as other
school council members that I speak to. So maybe that
(10:41):
was a backslip on the government.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Y Look, we've been given the same mail as well.
We've been we've been told the same thing here at
the radio station as well. We'd had both Cogso and
indeed the school on to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
So it was a very real concern from them.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Whether that was perceived or reality, it was absolute concern
for them. But also I think we've got a bit
of a situation right across the territory where it doesn't
seem that we've got enough of those school counselors.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Joe no correct, and there is a big drive they
said that the minister said to get more school counselors.
So you know, we just hope that that actually does happen.
Because all schools need to have a school counselor in them.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Joe, and we are fast running out of time. We
are going to have to wrap up. I'm sure that
you're keen to get back and keep an eye on
what's going on during budget estimates.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
We'll try our best to make sure that we do
during the ad breaks as well. Thank you so much
for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So worries Katie. Thank you, and thank you Listen.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Thank you,
Joining me on the line is the opposition's spokesperson for education.
She's also the member for Catherine Joe Hersey. Good morning
to you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners. Are very busy day, Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and Joe. We'll get to the education stuff
from yesterday in just a moment. But this morning I've
been keeping an eye on budget estimates and I see
that the opposition leader Leofanocchiro has attempted on several occasions
to ask the Police Minister, Kate Warden, who's in the
hot seat this morning, just how much the police commissioner,
(00:33):
the former police Commissioner Jamie Chalker, was paid out. And
it seems that it's been very difficult to get a
response to that answer.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, question correct, Katie.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's just been appalling. The Police Minister did not give
an opening statement, which is this is a time, Katie,
when the Police Minister can tell towards territory in about
the positive things that are happening in police. The fact
that the chair shut down the very first question, now,
let's what.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Was the reason for that?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
What did he say, Joe, what was the reason for that?
What did he say? Because a lot of our listeners
won't have been watching. They're going to be hearing this
for the first time. So I'm assuming that Lee has
attempted to ask a question about how much is paid
out and Brent Potter, the chair, has shut that question down.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, it wasn't in the reporting period, and he kept
on going back to say that he was very strictly
keeping to the period that we were asking questions on
up until the March thirty. But it's quite astonishing really that,
you know, we are given latitude sometimes to ask questions,
(01:42):
and that's what the whole of a budget estimate is about.
It's not unusual, you know, for the government to give
latitude in asking questions that pertain to him, you know,
what is important to territorient Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I've just got my hands on a bit of that audio,
so we're are just going to play a little bit
of that for our listeners right now.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Take a listen, Police minister, do you know how much
Jamie Chilker was paid out? No, And so if you
don't know how much he was paid out, you have
no idea how it's impacted your budget's bottom line.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (02:15):
That's incorrect? On this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that I'm not that
was a confidential payout, so I'm not going to discuss
that any further.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
But we were told yesterday by the Treasurer that the
entire payout came from the police bottom line. So that means,
as Minister, you must know what hit your department has
taken to pay for that payout.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
So the Commissioner's numeration does fall under our budget, as
does any CES renumeration within their department budgets, and it
would be totally inappropriate to no line by line around
any separations from any agency. So no, I don't know
(03:10):
the exact figure.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
So you just have a global separations budget with no oversight.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I think I've answered the question, Joe.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Do you think we're ever going to get an answer
to that question?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, quite extraordinary from the Police Minister. Katie, the Opposition
leader was not asking. You know, obviously the Police Minister
was saying it's confidential, and then when further questions were asked,
she still couldn't answer that. And just you know, it
has to have make a difference to the bottom line, Katie,
(03:46):
and that is to you know, the operational and the
hard working police out there. Something has to give when
you were taking a considerable which what we are assuming
is a considerable amount to pay out Jamie.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Chalker, Joe, let's move along to what unfolded yesterday, and
we know that things got pretty heated when you'd asked
some questions about the impact that crime was having on education.
Now what exactly were you trying to get to the
bottom off.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, the fact is, Katie, we want teachers, staff, support staff, students.
They all need to be safe in a school environment.
And there's already been eight incidents this year alone with
an edge weapon. Twenty eight teachers have been injured this
year and twenty five in the previous year. So what
(04:39):
I'm trying to ask the Education Minister was about safety
four people in a school environment, and she just went
off her tree. Basically, it was very unparliamentary. She called
me pathetic, which was just out of line, and you know,
quite appalling that the Education Minister. You know, it's up
(05:03):
for me to ask the questions. She's there to answer them,
not sling mud at me for standing up for territory
in and in fact education. I talk to a lot
of people in education, teaches students right across the territory
when I'm traveling, and that you know, even the Education
Union was in support of the line of questioning yesterday.
(05:24):
So I've had a lot of support in the line
of questioning that I had because the first and foremost
it's about people being safe in a school environment. If
people can't be safe in a school environment, you know,
that's what I wanted the education ministers to be over.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, and I mean, at the end of the day, unfortunately,
crime is at the forefront for absolutely everybody. You know,
we don't want to be talking about it in the
way that we are, but we don't want to be
feeling unsafe in the way that we are. And that's
really at the heart of why those questions are being asked.
I would understand and assume based on the conversations that
you have with people.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
In your electorate and other electorates.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Joe, So that INFOSO eight incidents for edged weapons this
year alone to April, as well as twenty eight teachers
injured this year twenty five the previous year. Was that
information that you did actually glean from yesterday?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No, we I already knew that you know, going in
and the the the education minister. Yeah we did, we
did find that out, but but you know, it's just
the fact that we brought this information to highlight the
fact that, you know, safety was important in a school environment,
(06:42):
and as you say, crime is on the forefront of
everyone's minds across the territory. So I don't know why
she was surprised. And then you know, to me, Katie,
it just says everything you need to know about this government.
When they get our important questions, they'll shut you down,
so hurling insults, she called me pathetics, and then we
(07:03):
had the chair actually shut down the meeting for a
few minutes so you know the minister could get herself
together and want to carry on.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
It was extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Look in the times that I've been watching estimates, which
is certainly over the last ten to fifteen years, not
I can't recall something.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Like that happening to that degree.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I thought it was pretty extraordinary scenes what we'd seen,
But it was also I thought, you know, out of
character from what I would expect from the Education Minister,
who usually does keep pretty level headed. Joe, I guess
from to play devil's advocate here, you know, she is
suggesting that you should have been asking more questions about
(07:42):
the education portfolio.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Rather than crime.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I mean, I'm assuming that you did ask plenty of
other questions about education as well.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Absolutely, Katie, we asked, you know, lots of things about education.
About attendance. You know, we have the lowest attend that's
in the country. Not one of our regions is up
to the benchmark of the national average, which is just appalling.
So you know, in actual fact, you know, in the
(08:14):
region of the Barkley, you know, their attendance rate was
extremely low. So there's been an education strategy, an engagement strategy,
which has cost ten million dollars, and this is to
engage students to get to school. And when we still
cannot come up to the national average, that's just appalling
(08:38):
to know. You know, ten million dollars has been sent
a spense and we can't we can't even get engagement.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, we've got I mean, fundamentally, we have to get
it right. We've got to get it right when it
comes to education. We've got to make sure that kids
are attending school. Was there any information gleaned with respect
to kids not attending school who are committing crimes because
you've experienced that in Catherine recently.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
We have. And when I asked the minister that, she
said if those crimes happen outside the school, that is
a police matter. She didn't. She just shut that down.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Okay, Joe, was there any update on the school counselors yesterday,
because that's been a real point of contention for a
lot of our listeners and a lot of you know,
we've spoken to two nt cogso and also to students
who are really concerned about changes to the way in
which those counselors are going to be operating.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, Katie, So the minister said there was some misunderstanding
that wasn't actually going to happen where they are all
going to go to the Mitchell Street Center. Yet we
know that more than five hundred students signed a petition
launched by Catherina Senior College against this new model, and
the Treasurer didn't even respect that response that they've had.
(10:00):
All counselors are a vital part in a school environment,
and the fact that they if you don't have a
counselor in your school, you are not going to be
bringing up someone to then have those that counselor talked
to you over the phone or make an appointment to
see them. They need to be building relationships in schools
(10:20):
with students and so the minister. So maybe there was
a you know, miscommunication there, but I had it on
very good authority from you know, cog So. I spoke
to them about the school counselors and that was the
information that they had given me, as well as other
school council members that I speak to. So maybe that
(10:41):
was a backslip on the government.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Y Look, we've been given the same mail as well.
We've been we've been told the same thing here at
the radio station as well. We'd had both Cogso and
indeed the school on to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
So it was a very real concern from them.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Whether that was perceived or reality, it was absolute concern
for them. But also I think we've got a bit
of a situation right across the territory where it doesn't
seem that we've got enough of those school counselors.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Joe no correct, and there is a big drive they
said that the minister said to get more school counselors.
So you know, we just hope that that actually does happen.
Because all schools need to have a school counselor in them.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Joe, and we are fast running out of time. We
are going to have to wrap up. I'm sure that
you're keen to get back and keep an eye on
what's going on during budget estimates.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
We'll try our best to make sure that we do
during the ad breaks as well. Thank you so much
for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
So worries Katie. Thank you, and thank you Listen.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Thank you,
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