Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I tell you whatet Budget estimates has certainly provided no
shortage of us of information for us to talk about
over the last week or so, and budget estimates continued
yesterday with the Chief Minister in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
There was a lot to cover.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
From alcohol legislation to the ship lift, health Howard Springs,
the payout to the former police commissioner as well. Now,
last week we heard these interactions around the situation with
the payout to the former police commissioner Jamie Chalker. If
you miss this bit of audio, take a listen.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Whose budget does the payout come from?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
So that budget would the budget would be the police
budget Police?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
And so did Treasury provide additional funding to police to
supplement that money that's now being diverted to the payout. No,
But at this stage that payout to Jamie Chalker has
had an impact on the police budget's bottom line.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, And.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Is it true that that figure is.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
In a of seven figures.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I've got no idea at all about that. I have
had no line of sight around that, which as is appropriate.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Police Minister, do you know how much Jamie Chilker was
paid out?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And so if you don't know how much he was
paid out. You have no idea how it's impacted your
budget's bottom line.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
That's incorrect on this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that that was a
confidential payout. So I'm not going to discuss that any further.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So that was both the Treasurer and also the Police
Minister well answering questions around the police commissioner's payout. Now
joining me in the studio this morning is the Chief Minister,
Natasha Files. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Good morning, Katie, Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I believe that is what you would call a hospital
pass right to you. How much was the former police
commissioner paid out?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So, Katie, I do need to be careful with my comments.
I will say as much as I can, and I
refer to the statement I made at the time when
the former commissioner retired, and I won't read that out
to waste time, Katie. But in terms of the budget,
I can absolutely assure your listeners it is not coming
from our frontline police resources within our agencies.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
He is coming from then, because the Treasurer firmly said
that it is coming from the police budget. So where's
it coming from.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So as I was about to say, within our agencies,
they have a human resources allocation for budget, so that's
for any payouts that they might need to make, any
work safe issues, those types of things. So police have
an allocation for that. It comes from that. But if
police go over that budget this year, I will absolutely
make sure that they get a Treasurer's advance for the difference.
(02:45):
So some agency, so you're prepared to top it up absolutely,
because this is not coming from our frontline police resources, Katie,
and I want to make sure that our police, who
are extremely hard working, know that and your listeners know that.
So there's that hr budget component. Some agencies go under,
some years they go over. But I will absolutely make sure.
This confidential matter and I can't speak to it or
(03:06):
speak to the amount. I do know the amount, Katie,
but I cannot speak to that, but I will make
sure not because Katie, that was a confidential matter that
was settled with the courts.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
But the fact is it's taxpayers dollars. So it is
money that Territorians are paying their taxes to pay out.
And it was bungled. This was bungled by your government
in terms of ending his contract.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Katie, A process was followed. It is a matter for
the courts and I cannot say any more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So what you can tell us though this morning, is
that you are prepared, if required, to top up the
police budget to ensure that they are not in a
situation where they're falling short because of a payout to
the former police commissioner correct now who covered his legal
fees in your legal face.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So Katie, I can't go into those matters. It was
part of that confidential settlement and I can absolutely assure
your listeners that I act in the best interests of
Territorians each and every day. But I am bound by
that court settlement. In the commentary I can provide it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I mean, how much do you anticipate that you may
have to top up the police budget?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Katie, I can't answer that question because of the settlement
of this matter.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Who approved the payout, because I've got to tell you, you know,
it seemed when watching estimates last week that the Police
Minister handballed it to you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So Katie, the only comments I can make on this
matter is going back to the statement that I made
at the time around the retirement of former Commissioner Jamie Talker, and.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Is that because it is absolutely a legal requirement.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, Katie, it's a matter that was settled before the
courts and I can't provide any further commentary.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
So will territorians ever know how much the former police
commissioner was paid out?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Katie? I've made the comments that I can and I
absolutely act in the best interests of territorians each and
every day.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Do you think that the police are going to fall
short budget wise?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So, Katie, we work incredibly hard to make sure that
our frontline workers, police, health, education have the resources to
do their job. We've given police more resources as a
government and will continue to work with them around what
they need to deliver high quality policing in the Northern Territory.
And just to go.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Back to you know, if a Treasurer's advance is required
for the Northern Territory police budget, how is that all
going to play out?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
How are you going to not so, Katie? A treasure's
advance is a process within government departments where government departments
are given a budget allocation and often things will go
under in some areas and over in other areas, and
they'll be able to work internally, but from time to time,
you'll see a situation where a treasure's advance, which is
where that department needs treasury approval to spend more because
(05:50):
of a matter that's the treasury advance process.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
How will anyone know though, you know, like how much
how much that treasure's advance might be or if they
are going to fall short, whether that's as a result
of the former Police Commissioners pay out or not.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, as I said, police within their budget have a
human resources line item and that covers a variety of things.
I indicated what they were before. If that line item
needs to go over this year, that is when a
treasurer's advance would be able to be done, how much
you're prepared to go up to? So, Katie, it's really
important from a human resources perspective across our agencies that
(06:24):
we support our workers and that human resources budget allocation
is based on previous years and sometimes there's more in
one year and next year there may not be as much.
So it's something that those departments work through each year.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Chief Minister. The Police Association was on the show yesterday.
They had said that another revelation from estimates that was
really very concerning was that members have worked one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial
year to March thirty one. The President, Nathan Finn says
that's on average five hundred and eighty hours per day.
(07:00):
If you divide that by an eight hour shift, it
means at least seventy two additional officers are needed each
day to meet the current demand. Are you concerned that
this level of overtime is required.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Katie to answer the question, yes, it is concerning when
you see significant amounts of overtime within frontline agencies. What
I can say and we also heard from the Acting
Police Commissioner Michael Murphy during estimates that around seventy police
are now back at work. So we've spoken before about
the high number of police that might be on leave,
and there's some compounding factors. We saw COVID which required
(07:36):
people to not be able to take leave and work
additional hours. So people have been able to take that
leave in a more normal year this year and catch
up reduce that leave burden. People have been able to
additionally get back to work and that's the work that
Commissioner Murphy's been doing. So we have seen more police
going back to work. But in terms of the question
you asked me around the overtime, that's something I'd like
(07:58):
to work through. I was at a police graduation just
the other week and saw amazing more constables graduating to
work in our police force. But if we can work
through with police how many additional police will reduce that
overtime burden. I absolutely want to do that now.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The new president, though, believes that the review into police
resourcing needs to happen before year's end. The government has
committed to this review. It was part of those EBA negotiations.
When is that review going to happen?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So, Katie, I've had advice that you need to do
the electronic rostering, but he says you doing yes, And
I was going to pick up on that point. But
I've also had people saying, well, actually, is that really necessary?
So I've asked for that work. What can we do
because we just want to get the police out on
the beat, so we need to get them through the
training academy, recruit them and get them out. So I'm
working through that. The electronic rostering was meant to be
(08:47):
completed later this year. But if we can do this
work without necessarily having the electronic rostering work complete, it
might be that we can get some work. I know
that when you look at the territory, you've got difference
sitchuations in Darwin and Alla Springs as perhaps for the
smaller stations. So maybe we can do the electronic rostering
for the larger areas and get an indication.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I mean, the fact is, if we're covering one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime a year, why
not get the review underway and try and sort it out.
I mean that's presumably costing a huge amount of money.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So, Katie, these overtime hours go back to July first
last year and we were still seeing impacts of COVID.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, but when are we going to accept that The
reality here is that we've got police doing a lot
of overtime because we've got a lot of crime.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Absolutely accept that comment, Katie that we need to give
police the resources and have the police officers, but we
can't just simply pull a number out and we need
to have some correct And also this last year, the
nine months till March thirty first, has still been an
anomaly because police officers that were owed leave would have
been taking that leave, so someone else would have needed
(09:57):
to cover for that, and it's hard to belief, but
COVID was still here a year ago it was tailing off.
So they're the factors that we're taking into account. But
I'm determined to get this work so we know those
numbers and we can get those police on the beat
before the end of the year. Katie, I think that
that's not an unrealistic time frame to at least have.
And as I was saying, we know Darwin and Alla Springs,
the bigger, bigger urban centers. Perhaps we can focus on
(10:21):
that because the electronic rostering takes it away from a
paper based system so that we can then analyze the
data quicker and easier, whereas that doesn't have such an
implication for our smaller remote stations.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I guess though, it seems like a real common sense
approach here when you've got such an enormous number of
overtime hours, and I take on board definitely the factor
is that you've said there that have come into play,
and I think that most reasonable people would be able
to understand that. But when you've also got a situation
where the police association they've had those two surveys that
have said that police do not feel there's enough of
(10:53):
them to be able.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
To do their jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
The crime stats keep showing us that the rate of
crime is going up. You had one of the assists
think commissioners last week in est of it say that
we've got more people.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
That have been apprehended than ever before.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
There is a lot of work that our police need
to do, so why not really get that raw data,
get it asap so that you can work out exactly
what services you are needing and how many officers you
need on the front line.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And I think the comments from the acting Commissioner that
a significant number have come back to work, I think
that the quarter of April, May and June might be
more realistic for us to look at. So absolutely just
want to be pragmatic about this and make sure that
we make something happen rather than sitting around talking about
it and waiting for the perfect scenario. So that's my
commitment to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So April May June, if we're looking at that, really
we could get it started next month, Katie. I want
to see this implemented as quickly as possible because for me,
it's about the resources there's more resources than ever before,
but clearly our police need more and that's what is
a government we want to deliver. It does sound though
before the end of the year at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Least, Katie, I would certainly like to see it sooner
than that, but I absolutely think within that timeframe is realistic.
So yes, yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Overnight, Samara Lavity, Declan Lavity's mum has taken to social
media to really take aaim at you and what she
sees as a real lack of action around crime. It
follows the opposition's attempt to get some information yesterday during
estimates around your government's response to crime. Samara is questioning
why you're not doing more around bail laws.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Why aren't you acting on urgency with this, Katie, I
again my condolences to Samara and her family and Declan's friends.
This is a matter before the courts, and I know
that that family and those friends what they need is justice,
and I don't want to make commentary that may interrupt that.
But stepping away from that, we may changes at the
time in March on urgency around the presumption of bail
(12:48):
for edge weapon offenses. So we acted immediately and we
have built upon that we are not only reviewing the
bail offenses, we are also looking at the work around
that knife crime strategy, and that has been underway for
some time. So Katie, there is a number of things
happening in this space and there has already been action.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Look. My understanding though, is that she wants to see
a tightening of bail laws reminding people who commit any
sort of aggravated assault with any sort of weapon, because
that implies intent to pick up a weapon and then
use it, and it should be irrelevant as to whether
or not it's your first time or your tenth time.
(13:26):
You should not get automatic bail because it's a first offense.
Why isn't that happening?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So, Katie, we change the presumption of bail for edged
weapons in March. We've also got the work.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
There is still there is still concern around what type
of edged weapon and what that includes.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And Katie, that work around the types of weapons control,
prohibited and offensive. That is the work that is underway
with the Bail and Weapons Review Task Force. And I've
been updated on that regularly and I'll get another update
this week. So we certainly are doing the work thoroughly.
But we made immediate changes at the time.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But do you think that those immediate changes have worked
since the loss of Decline. I know that there's been
different circumstances surrounding the other loss of life that we
have seen around the Northern Territory, but you cannot deny
that there has been further violent crime and violent deaths
(14:24):
following on from Decland's death.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Katie, as I've said before, we'll leave no stone unturned,
whether it's police, health, education, those resources to tackle violent
crime and knife crime, which is something that we don't
want to take a hold in our community.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Can you assure our listeners that if somebody out there,
if there is a person who commits any sort of
aggravated assault with any sort of weapon, they're not going
to get bail.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So, Katie, what I can say to your listeners is
police decide who gets bail. So police are best placed
because they're highly trained, they understand the circumstances, and they
can restrict bail to anyone that they believe will be
a threat to our community. Do you feel that the
government has acted swiftly and effectively enough since Decklan Lavity died, Katie,
(15:12):
we have, as I said, made immediate changes. We are
doing that task force review and that will be made public. Katie,
we are doing a knife crime strategy. We're absolutely doing
everything we can to keep our community safe.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
What do you say to his mum this morning, who
is clearly utterly heartbroken. I mean that post is it's
heartbreaking stuff to read. I can see that she absolutely
wants change, She absolutely wants to ensure that this does
not happen to another family.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh my condolence is my heart. I can't imagine what
her and her family and friends are going through. And
as I said, we will leave no stone unturned to
make sure there is measures to keep our community safe.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And what do you say to the people in the
community who think that you are soft in this space?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So, Katie, I point to the actions, the immediate changes
we made in March, the work that we are undertaking,
the resources we are giving to police. We are working
across government one point one billion dollars in our budget
to public safety. We are making sure there is resources
across our community to keep people safe.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I want to have a look at Howard Springs now.
You had told us on a number of occasions that
the damage out there was wear and tear the Treasurer
said that the total cost to the budget was two
hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars. So far, would you
still describe that as wear and tear?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
No, I acknowledged a few weeks ago that it was
more substantial. The large majority of the evacuees did the
right thing, but for those that did the wrong thing,
it is completely unacceptable when we help them when they've
gone through a natural disaster, that we end up seeing
damage like that. But it is not wear and tear.
It is more substantial, and I have acknowledged that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I understand that there is that they're still reviewing what
work actually needs to get underway out there, in terms
of food, the work, and potentially more work to be completed.
There was also one point two million dollars spent on
private security out there. Two hundred and eighty eight grand,
as I've touched on, is far from wear and tear,
and you now acknowledge that. Many questions though, are now
(17:17):
being asked us how no one has been charged for
that damage, So.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Katie, that would be a question for police. Territory families
run that facility as a welfare response, and police certainly
had a presence and worked in with them, so that
would be a question for them around do you think
it's appropriate though? I think if anyone is damaged public property,
they should be held to account. But that's a question
for police.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But I mean, do you sort of regret I guess
well from the outset saying that it was wear and
tear and sort of having a crack at the opposition
and almost implying that they were being racist by asking
these questions when the fact is there's been an enormous
amount of damage out there. No one is denying that. Definitely,
people who have been evacuated from a flood emergency scenario
(17:59):
should be how and should have somewhere to stay, but
they should not be putting other people in danger or
should not be causing criminal damage.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Katie, I was given the advice at the time and
I acted upon that. But when it became clear, Minister
Lawler visited that facility. But we are working now around
the long term future of Howard Springs. It is something
that has served us as a resource during COVID and
what is its next phase and that's the work that
we're undertaking presently.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Alight, I'm going to have to move on very quickly
because we're fast running out of time. It's being reported
that the Territory's Eye CACK is more than one million
dollars in.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
The red and bracing for a further reduction.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
The Independent Commissioner against Corruption, Michael Riches, as we know,
fronted budget estimates yesterday making that revelation that his small
office has been operating with one point four million dollars
less funding than last year.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Why is the i CACK had a funding cut? So, Katie,
this is not a funding cut with respect when we
established the IPAT then if it's one point four million less,
so Katie, when we established the INDOPA Commissioner against Corruption
in the Northern Territory, we knew that it would cost
more to get that office up and running. So they
were given three years additional funding to get that office
(19:09):
up and running and now they're coming back to making
sure that they operate within their ongoing budget. So when
you establish a new office literally from scratch, you were
getting everything. So that was clearly outlined when we announced
that at the time.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
The commissioner, though, the KAC Commissioner also said that from
the first of July this year he's going to see
a further reduction of around half a million dollars. Are
you concerned that this is going to see a reduction
in investigations?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So, Katie, again, the IKAK was given additional resources to
establish the office. We have a number of independent agencies
that we give them a budget, but if they need
to go over that budget, they do have the ability
to come back to Central Holdings, come back to Governor
and ask But Katie, I need to make it really clear.
We always made that three years of funding as a
(19:55):
boost temporarily to then come back to a normal operational budget.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I mean, some people we'll see this though as an
example of the government wanting to cut scrutiny.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Katie. We made it very clear when we provided this
funding that it was to get the office up and running.
It was three years of additional funding which peaked in
twenty twenty at three point six million dollars. Their operational
budget has never been impacted. This is the initial funding
to get that office up and running, to buy everything,
to fit out offices, etc. Is your intention to scrap
(20:28):
the k No, Katie, We've just reviewed the legislation that
is seen an exposure draft bill go out. There's now
an opportunity for comments on that. So no, we are
the government that bought in place in ICAQ and we
are strengthening reviewing the legislation and we have provided ongoing funding.
But it is a little bit unfair when we clearly
say from the outset we're going to give you three
(20:49):
years of extra funding to get your office up and running,
to get the equipment you need. Yet we're then accused
of cutting funding.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So you think the ICAC Commission is being unfair, Katie,
I just.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Think that we were very clear from the outset around
that additional funding, and people can look to the comments
that were made at the time, But how are.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You meant to do investigations if you don't have the
resources that you need.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
So, Katie, this was in establishing an independent Commissioner against
Corruption in the Northern Territory. We knew that they would
need additional resources to establish that office and that is
what we provided, and then they receive ongoing operational funding
to finister.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
We are going to have to wrap up. I do, though,
I want to say thank you for joining us this morning.
I know that last week was an incredibly difficult week
for you and your family, and that your young fella
has had a pretty extensive operation on a tumor which
he has infused in his spine. So we appreciate you
(21:41):
being in here and I do hope that you and
Paul and your family are okay.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
How's young Henry going. He's good. Kids are very resilient, Katie.
So but thank you, and obviously it's very emotional for us,
but we received very good care and roll Dalen Hospital, Learning, Queensland.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And look, I certainly know that you know people cannot
likely politics, but I think as a human we all
need to make sure that we do give each other
that level of respect. And I know it's been an
incredibly difficult time for you and your family. My heart
goes out to you and Paul and your your little boys.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And I know that Henry is.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
A little he's a tough little bugger, so I'm sure
he's going to be.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And that comes in handy when kids have had surgery.
Certainly does very kind and thank you to the community.
We've had a lot of well wishes and appreciate that
from across the political divide.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, absolutely, Chief Minister, Thanks so much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Take care
I tell you whatet Budget estimates has certainly provided no
shortage of us of information for us to talk about
over the last week or so, and budget estimates continued
yesterday with the Chief Minister in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
There was a lot to cover.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
From alcohol legislation to the ship lift, health Howard Springs,
the payout to the former police commissioner as well. Now,
last week we heard these interactions around the situation with
the payout to the former police commissioner Jamie Chalker. If
you miss this bit of audio, take a listen.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Whose budget does the payout come from?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
So that budget would the budget would be the police
budget Police?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
And so did Treasury provide additional funding to police to
supplement that money that's now being diverted to the payout. No,
But at this stage that payout to Jamie Chalker has
had an impact on the police budget's bottom line.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yes, And.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Is it true that that figure is.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
In a of seven figures.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
I've got no idea at all about that. I have
had no line of sight around that, which as is appropriate.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Police Minister, do you know how much Jamie Chilker was
paid out?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And so if you don't know how much he was
paid out. You have no idea how it's impacted your
budget's bottom line.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (01:22):
That's incorrect on this particular matter. There were several elements
of the negotiation and the payout that that was a
confidential payout. So I'm not going to discuss that any further.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So that was both the Treasurer and also the Police
Minister well answering questions around the police commissioner's payout. Now
joining me in the studio this morning is the Chief Minister,
Natasha Files. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Good morning, Katie, Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I believe that is what you would call a hospital
pass right to you. How much was the former police
commissioner paid out?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So, Katie, I do need to be careful with my comments.
I will say as much as I can, and I
refer to the statement I made at the time when
the former commissioner retired, and I won't read that out
to waste time, Katie. But in terms of the budget,
I can absolutely assure your listeners it is not coming
from our frontline police resources within our agencies.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
He is coming from then, because the Treasurer firmly said
that it is coming from the police budget. So where's
it coming from.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So as I was about to say, within our agencies,
they have a human resources allocation for budget, so that's
for any payouts that they might need to make, any
work safe issues, those types of things. So police have
an allocation for that. It comes from that. But if
police go over that budget this year, I will absolutely
make sure that they get a Treasurer's advance for the difference.
(02:45):
So some agency, so you're prepared to top it up absolutely,
because this is not coming from our frontline police resources, Katie,
and I want to make sure that our police, who
are extremely hard working, know that and your listeners know that.
So there's that hr budget component. Some agencies go under,
some years they go over. But I will absolutely make sure.
This confidential matter and I can't speak to it or
(03:06):
speak to the amount. I do know the amount, Katie,
but I cannot speak to that, but I will make
sure not because Katie, that was a confidential matter that
was settled with the courts.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
But the fact is it's taxpayers dollars. So it is
money that Territorians are paying their taxes to pay out.
And it was bungled. This was bungled by your government
in terms of ending his contract.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Katie, A process was followed. It is a matter for
the courts and I cannot say any more than that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
So what you can tell us though this morning, is
that you are prepared, if required, to top up the
police budget to ensure that they are not in a
situation where they're falling short because of a payout to
the former police commissioner correct now who covered his legal
fees in your legal face.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So Katie, I can't go into those matters. It was
part of that confidential settlement and I can absolutely assure
your listeners that I act in the best interests of
Territorians each and every day. But I am bound by
that court settlement. In the commentary I can provide it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I mean, how much do you anticipate that you may
have to top up the police budget?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Katie, I can't answer that question because of the settlement
of this matter.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Who approved the payout, because I've got to tell you, you know,
it seemed when watching estimates last week that the Police
Minister handballed it to you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So Katie, the only comments I can make on this
matter is going back to the statement that I made
at the time around the retirement of former Commissioner Jamie Talker, and.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Is that because it is absolutely a legal requirement.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, Katie, it's a matter that was settled before the
courts and I can't provide any further commentary.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
So will territorians ever know how much the former police
commissioner was paid out?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Katie? I've made the comments that I can and I
absolutely act in the best interests of territorians each and
every day.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Do you think that the police are going to fall
short budget wise?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So, Katie, we work incredibly hard to make sure that
our frontline workers, police, health, education have the resources to
do their job. We've given police more resources as a
government and will continue to work with them around what
they need to deliver high quality policing in the Northern Territory.
And just to go.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Back to you know, if a Treasurer's advance is required
for the Northern Territory police budget, how is that all
going to play out?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
How are you going to not so, Katie? A treasure's
advance is a process within government departments where government departments
are given a budget allocation and often things will go
under in some areas and over in other areas, and
they'll be able to work internally, but from time to time,
you'll see a situation where a treasure's advance, which is
where that department needs treasury approval to spend more because
(05:50):
of a matter that's the treasury advance process.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
How will anyone know though, you know, like how much
how much that treasure's advance might be or if they
are going to fall short, whether that's as a result
of the former Police Commissioners pay out or not.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So, as I said, police within their budget have a
human resources line item and that covers a variety of things.
I indicated what they were before. If that line item
needs to go over this year, that is when a
treasurer's advance would be able to be done, how much
you're prepared to go up to? So, Katie, it's really
important from a human resources perspective across our agencies that
(06:24):
we support our workers and that human resources budget allocation
is based on previous years and sometimes there's more in
one year and next year there may not be as much.
So it's something that those departments work through each year.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Chief Minister. The Police Association was on the show yesterday.
They had said that another revelation from estimates that was
really very concerning was that members have worked one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial
year to March thirty one. The President, Nathan Finn says
that's on average five hundred and eighty hours per day.
(07:00):
If you divide that by an eight hour shift, it
means at least seventy two additional officers are needed each
day to meet the current demand. Are you concerned that
this level of overtime is required.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Katie to answer the question, yes, it is concerning when
you see significant amounts of overtime within frontline agencies. What
I can say and we also heard from the Acting
Police Commissioner Michael Murphy during estimates that around seventy police
are now back at work. So we've spoken before about
the high number of police that might be on leave,
and there's some compounding factors. We saw COVID which required
(07:36):
people to not be able to take leave and work
additional hours. So people have been able to take that
leave in a more normal year this year and catch
up reduce that leave burden. People have been able to
additionally get back to work and that's the work that
Commissioner Murphy's been doing. So we have seen more police
going back to work. But in terms of the question
you asked me around the overtime, that's something I'd like
(07:58):
to work through. I was at a police graduation just
the other week and saw amazing more constables graduating to
work in our police force. But if we can work
through with police how many additional police will reduce that
overtime burden. I absolutely want to do that now.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The new president, though, believes that the review into police
resourcing needs to happen before year's end. The government has
committed to this review. It was part of those EBA negotiations.
When is that review going to happen?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So, Katie, I've had advice that you need to do
the electronic rostering, but he says you doing yes, And
I was going to pick up on that point. But
I've also had people saying, well, actually, is that really necessary?
So I've asked for that work. What can we do
because we just want to get the police out on
the beat, so we need to get them through the
training academy, recruit them and get them out. So I'm
working through that. The electronic rostering was meant to be
(08:47):
completed later this year. But if we can do this
work without necessarily having the electronic rostering work complete, it
might be that we can get some work. I know
that when you look at the territory, you've got difference
sitchuations in Darwin and Alla Springs as perhaps for the
smaller stations. So maybe we can do the electronic rostering
for the larger areas and get an indication.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I mean, the fact is, if we're covering one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime a year, why
not get the review underway and try and sort it out.
I mean that's presumably costing a huge amount of money.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So, Katie, these overtime hours go back to July first
last year and we were still seeing impacts of COVID.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, but when are we going to accept that The
reality here is that we've got police doing a lot
of overtime because we've got a lot of crime.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Absolutely accept that comment, Katie that we need to give
police the resources and have the police officers, but we
can't just simply pull a number out and we need
to have some correct And also this last year, the
nine months till March thirty first, has still been an
anomaly because police officers that were owed leave would have
been taking that leave, so someone else would have needed
(09:57):
to cover for that, and it's hard to belief, but
COVID was still here a year ago it was tailing off.
So they're the factors that we're taking into account. But
I'm determined to get this work so we know those
numbers and we can get those police on the beat
before the end of the year. Katie, I think that
that's not an unrealistic time frame to at least have.
And as I was saying, we know Darwin and Alla Springs,
the bigger, bigger urban centers. Perhaps we can focus on
(10:21):
that because the electronic rostering takes it away from a
paper based system so that we can then analyze the
data quicker and easier, whereas that doesn't have such an
implication for our smaller remote stations.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I guess though, it seems like a real common sense
approach here when you've got such an enormous number of
overtime hours, and I take on board definitely the factor
is that you've said there that have come into play,
and I think that most reasonable people would be able
to understand that. But when you've also got a situation
where the police association they've had those two surveys that
have said that police do not feel there's enough of
(10:53):
them to be able.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
To do their jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
The crime stats keep showing us that the rate of
crime is going up. You had one of the assists
think commissioners last week in est of it say that
we've got more people.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
That have been apprehended than ever before.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
There is a lot of work that our police need
to do, so why not really get that raw data,
get it asap so that you can work out exactly
what services you are needing and how many officers you
need on the front line.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And I think the comments from the acting Commissioner that
a significant number have come back to work, I think
that the quarter of April, May and June might be
more realistic for us to look at. So absolutely just
want to be pragmatic about this and make sure that
we make something happen rather than sitting around talking about
it and waiting for the perfect scenario. So that's my
commitment to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
So April May June, if we're looking at that, really
we could get it started next month, Katie. I want
to see this implemented as quickly as possible because for me,
it's about the resources there's more resources than ever before,
but clearly our police need more and that's what is
a government we want to deliver. It does sound though
before the end of the year at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Least, Katie, I would certainly like to see it sooner
than that, but I absolutely think within that timeframe is realistic.
So yes, yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Overnight, Samara Lavity, Declan Lavity's mum has taken to social
media to really take aaim at you and what she
sees as a real lack of action around crime. It
follows the opposition's attempt to get some information yesterday during
estimates around your government's response to crime. Samara is questioning
why you're not doing more around bail laws.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Why aren't you acting on urgency with this, Katie, I
again my condolences to Samara and her family and Declan's friends.
This is a matter before the courts, and I know
that that family and those friends what they need is justice,
and I don't want to make commentary that may interrupt that.
But stepping away from that, we may changes at the
time in March on urgency around the presumption of bail
(12:48):
for edge weapon offenses. So we acted immediately and we
have built upon that we are not only reviewing the
bail offenses, we are also looking at the work around
that knife crime strategy, and that has been underway for
some time. So Katie, there is a number of things
happening in this space and there has already been action.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Look. My understanding though, is that she wants to see
a tightening of bail laws reminding people who commit any
sort of aggravated assault with any sort of weapon, because
that implies intent to pick up a weapon and then
use it, and it should be irrelevant as to whether
or not it's your first time or your tenth time.
(13:26):
You should not get automatic bail because it's a first offense.
Why isn't that happening?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So, Katie, we change the presumption of bail for edged
weapons in March. We've also got the work.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
There is still there is still concern around what type
of edged weapon and what that includes.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
And Katie, that work around the types of weapons control,
prohibited and offensive. That is the work that is underway
with the Bail and Weapons Review Task Force. And I've
been updated on that regularly and I'll get another update
this week. So we certainly are doing the work thoroughly.
But we made immediate changes at the time.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
But do you think that those immediate changes have worked
since the loss of Decline. I know that there's been
different circumstances surrounding the other loss of life that we
have seen around the Northern Territory, but you cannot deny
that there has been further violent crime and violent deaths
(14:24):
following on from Decland's death.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Katie, as I've said before, we'll leave no stone unturned,
whether it's police, health, education, those resources to tackle violent
crime and knife crime, which is something that we don't
want to take a hold in our community.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Can you assure our listeners that if somebody out there,
if there is a person who commits any sort of
aggravated assault with any sort of weapon, they're not going
to get bail.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So, Katie, what I can say to your listeners is
police decide who gets bail. So police are best placed
because they're highly trained, they understand the circumstances, and they
can restrict bail to anyone that they believe will be
a threat to our community. Do you feel that the
government has acted swiftly and effectively enough since Decklan Lavity died, Katie,
(15:12):
we have, as I said, made immediate changes. We are
doing that task force review and that will be made public. Katie,
we are doing a knife crime strategy. We're absolutely doing
everything we can to keep our community safe.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
What do you say to his mum this morning, who
is clearly utterly heartbroken. I mean that post is it's
heartbreaking stuff to read. I can see that she absolutely
wants change, She absolutely wants to ensure that this does
not happen to another family.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh my condolence is my heart. I can't imagine what
her and her family and friends are going through. And
as I said, we will leave no stone unturned to
make sure there is measures to keep our community safe.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And what do you say to the people in the
community who think that you are soft in this space?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So, Katie, I point to the actions, the immediate changes
we made in March, the work that we are undertaking,
the resources we are giving to police. We are working
across government one point one billion dollars in our budget
to public safety. We are making sure there is resources
across our community to keep people safe.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I want to have a look at Howard Springs now.
You had told us on a number of occasions that
the damage out there was wear and tear the Treasurer
said that the total cost to the budget was two
hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars. So far, would you
still describe that as wear and tear?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
No, I acknowledged a few weeks ago that it was
more substantial. The large majority of the evacuees did the
right thing, but for those that did the wrong thing,
it is completely unacceptable when we help them when they've
gone through a natural disaster, that we end up seeing
damage like that. But it is not wear and tear.
It is more substantial, and I have acknowledged that.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I understand that there is that they're still reviewing what
work actually needs to get underway out there, in terms
of food, the work, and potentially more work to be completed.
There was also one point two million dollars spent on
private security out there. Two hundred and eighty eight grand,
as I've touched on, is far from wear and tear,
and you now acknowledge that. Many questions though, are now
(17:17):
being asked us how no one has been charged for
that damage, So.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Katie, that would be a question for police. Territory families
run that facility as a welfare response, and police certainly
had a presence and worked in with them, so that
would be a question for them around do you think
it's appropriate though? I think if anyone is damaged public property,
they should be held to account. But that's a question
for police.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
But I mean, do you sort of regret I guess
well from the outset saying that it was wear and
tear and sort of having a crack at the opposition
and almost implying that they were being racist by asking
these questions when the fact is there's been an enormous
amount of damage out there. No one is denying that. Definitely,
people who have been evacuated from a flood emergency scenario
(17:59):
should be how and should have somewhere to stay, but
they should not be putting other people in danger or
should not be causing criminal damage.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Katie, I was given the advice at the time and
I acted upon that. But when it became clear, Minister
Lawler visited that facility. But we are working now around
the long term future of Howard Springs. It is something
that has served us as a resource during COVID and
what is its next phase and that's the work that
we're undertaking presently.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Alight, I'm going to have to move on very quickly
because we're fast running out of time. It's being reported
that the Territory's Eye CACK is more than one million
dollars in.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
The red and bracing for a further reduction.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
The Independent Commissioner against Corruption, Michael Riches, as we know,
fronted budget estimates yesterday making that revelation that his small
office has been operating with one point four million dollars
less funding than last year.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Why is the i CACK had a funding cut? So, Katie,
this is not a funding cut with respect when we
established the IPAT then if it's one point four million less,
so Katie, when we established the INDOPA Commissioner against Corruption
in the Northern Territory, we knew that it would cost
more to get that office up and running. So they
were given three years additional funding to get that office
(19:09):
up and running and now they're coming back to making
sure that they operate within their ongoing budget. So when
you establish a new office literally from scratch, you were
getting everything. So that was clearly outlined when we announced
that at the time.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
The commissioner, though, the KAC Commissioner also said that from
the first of July this year he's going to see
a further reduction of around half a million dollars. Are
you concerned that this is going to see a reduction
in investigations?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So, Katie, again, the IKAK was given additional resources to
establish the office. We have a number of independent agencies
that we give them a budget, but if they need
to go over that budget, they do have the ability
to come back to Central Holdings, come back to Governor
and ask But Katie, I need to make it really clear.
We always made that three years of funding as a
(19:55):
boost temporarily to then come back to a normal operational budget.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I mean, some people we'll see this though as an
example of the government wanting to cut scrutiny.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Katie. We made it very clear when we provided this
funding that it was to get the office up and running.
It was three years of additional funding which peaked in
twenty twenty at three point six million dollars. Their operational
budget has never been impacted. This is the initial funding
to get that office up and running, to buy everything,
to fit out offices, etc. Is your intention to scrap
(20:28):
the k No, Katie, We've just reviewed the legislation that
is seen an exposure draft bill go out. There's now
an opportunity for comments on that. So no, we are
the government that bought in place in ICAQ and we
are strengthening reviewing the legislation and we have provided ongoing funding.
But it is a little bit unfair when we clearly
say from the outset we're going to give you three
(20:49):
years of extra funding to get your office up and running,
to get the equipment you need. Yet we're then accused
of cutting funding.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So you think the ICAC Commission is being unfair, Katie,
I just.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Think that we were very clear from the outset around
that additional funding, and people can look to the comments
that were made at the time, But how are.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You meant to do investigations if you don't have the
resources that you need.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
So, Katie, this was in establishing an independent Commissioner against
Corruption in the Northern Territory. We knew that they would
need additional resources to establish that office and that is
what we provided, and then they receive ongoing operational funding
to finister.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
We are going to have to wrap up. I do, though,
I want to say thank you for joining us this morning.
I know that last week was an incredibly difficult week
for you and your family, and that your young fella
has had a pretty extensive operation on a tumor which
he has infused in his spine. So we appreciate you
(21:41):
being in here and I do hope that you and
Paul and your family are okay.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
How's young Henry going. He's good. Kids are very resilient, Katie.
So but thank you, and obviously it's very emotional for us,
but we received very good care and roll Dalen Hospital, Learning, Queensland.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And look, I certainly know that you know people cannot
likely politics, but I think as a human we all
need to make sure that we do give each other
that level of respect. And I know it's been an
incredibly difficult time for you and your family. My heart
goes out to you and Paul and your your little boys.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And I know that Henry is.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
A little he's a tough little bugger, so I'm sure
he's going to be.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And that comes in handy when kids have had surgery.
Certainly does very kind and thank you to the community.
We've had a lot of well wishes and appreciate that
from across the political divide.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, absolutely, Chief Minister, Thanks so much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Take care
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