The Week That Was – 21st July 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was. I can
hear Kezia Puric yelling out already. Good morning to you,
Kezia Puric, the member for Goid Morning, Monty Caddy, morning
Bush people. We have got Brent Potter, the Member for
Fanny Bay and the Labour rep for this morning.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning Brent Caty go to be back again and we've.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Got the opposition later.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Lea for not Pru in the studio this morning. Good
morning to your leave the morning.

Speaker 4 (00:22):
Let us surprise visit for you.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Got your old seat back yep, and good to have
you all in the studio this morning. And I do
just want to mention, of course, a great win by
the Matilda's overnight beating Ireland one nill. I love a
good game of sport whatever it is now, come on now, yeah,
fantastic stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Now I want to get straight into it.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
And we know that the alcohol restrictions are being extended
of course in Alice Springs. We spoke about this yesterday
after incidents of domestic violence and assault plummeted by more
than a third. Well The Northern Territory government say that
evidence has shown that alcohol related Emergency Department presentations at
Alice Springs Hospital have reduced by a third and domestic

(01:09):
violence as halved since those restrictions were introduced. They say
that along with police consultation, they've also seen a decrease
in alcohol related harm and assaults, and the number of
children protective custody notifications has also decreased.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
The Mayor, Matt Patterson joined.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Us on the show yesterday, as did Daniel Rochford, the
CEO of Tourism Central Australia, and both said that more
consultation should have happened before the extensions were obviously firmed up,
but we obviously know as well or certainly the Mayor
of Alice said yesterday that we do need to look
at other things like wrap around services and also tougher

(01:49):
penalties for crimes committed. He had said, Katie, we've got
to remember that alcohol is not the only issue here
and I know that certainly when things had flared up
at the end of last year beginning of that is
one of the things that we're all saying.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
It's not just alcohol.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
There is certainly other issues as well.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Oh, without a doubt, you know, Alice Springs has been
suffering for a very long time and of course labor
for seven years have eroded consequences for people who do
the wrong thing, and as a result, territories, no matter
where they live, don't feel safe. These were meant to
be emergency, stop gap measures after one of the worst
decisions in the territories history to lift stronger futures without

(02:26):
a plan, and now Natasha Files is on the back foot.
She's basically admitted her failure by having to keep the
SA another year.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Your government is still not admitting that they've taken the
wrong step here, and I think that that's something that
people are finding quite frustrating. Is you know, for me,
I sort of think to myself, I don't live in
Ela Springs, so I don't know what it's like for
those alcohol extensions to be in place, but I could
see that it was a town that was screaming for help.
So I think, if this is something that is going
to reduce the rates of domestic violence, if it is

(02:56):
going to mean less child notifications, you know, then.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Surely it's a good thing. But the fact is.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
You know, at the beginning of the year, we did
have the Chief Minister saying that they were not going
to put in place these restrictions after Stronger futures legislation
ended and that it was race based politics. But here
we are in a situation now where you can't buy
takeaway alcohol two days a week.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I think it's pretty clear they worked. So hence while
we're extending it. I can't talk on to what decisions
were made at the time down in Alice Springs with
Albaneza wasn't there, but I think the numbers speak for itself.
You know, it's exactly right, kay, You said that Alice
Springs resident wanted something, they were screaming out for it.
If it's working, we'd be silly to stop it. I mean,
in terms of the consultation with the mayor, if he
hasn't been consulted in the way that he believes appropriate,

(03:41):
and say with Daniel Rochford, well then that's disappointing.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well Daniel Rochford said he got a text message two.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Days before, Yeah, so he should he should have been
better engaged. Absolutely, And I mean these are key stakeholders
that live in that place, and I understand their point
that necessarily some things are being made, decisions are being
made in darh And and we need to get down there
and have those face to face conversations if we're going
to extend them. But I think the data there, the hospital,
the medical staff are saying it, and police support it.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
So you know, Natasha Phile has made that announcement from
the comfort and safety of dah and she didn't go
down and explain it to the community. There's never been
consultation with people down there. And when you've got major
players like the tourism industry and the mayor, you know,
getting text messages a couple of days before, it just
reinforces that there is no plan by Labor for this town.
And that two hundred and fifty million dollars that Albanezi

(04:26):
flew in on his you know jet to come in
and save the town, not a dollar has even been spent.
I mean, this is a territory that is falling apart
and going backwards under Labor, and there seems to be
no plan from Natasha files whatsoever on how to fix it.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I think it's true about the dollars not being spent
neurin estimates as well, where so.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
That's right what we were told. Nothing has been Let.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Me just talk then I'm going to have my piece
now pre budget twenty three twenty four. Correct, There was
additional money that was already in there in your budget
that has been used, none of the new two hundred
and thirty million dollars. Now we're in a new financial
and that money's moving through those organizations. To say we
don't have a plan for Alice is completely false. Just
because you don't agree with the plan that we're putting
in place doesn't mean there isn't a plan. And I

(05:08):
completely understand why people in Our Springs would like to
see additional measures put in place around families. And I've
said this before in the show. Ok, we need parents
to be parents, you know, that's really how we're going
to resolve most of the problems we see with the
youth in our springs.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well, what the mayor of Alice Springs actually said on
the show yesterday as well, is there needs to be
greater wrap around services, but there also needs to be
punishment for people when they are engaged in different crimes,
whether it's alcohol related or whatever it is.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Extending the restrictions, whatever they may be, for another twelve
months or eighteen months is one thing, but the question
is it's just putting up a legious little process it's not.
I mean, yes, clearly that there has been the fact
that they can't get the supply. It means they can't
drink it. And if they can't drink it, then they
can't create harm to themselves and others. But it's not
addressing the fundamental issue, and that is the excess of

(05:57):
drinking levels in the town or in the territory for
that matter, by a lot of local people of Aboriginal descent.
And that's the problem. And I agree with you, Brent,
it is a family issue. But it's a really sad
indictment on our society that we have to tell parents
how to be parents. I mean, they've had the bloody child,
for goodness sake. They surely don't know how it came about,
and so we're having to teach them how to be
parents to their children. And the other thing too, is

(06:18):
we're in the middle of winter down there, absolutely freezing weather,
and crime does drop in winter. We know that everyone
knows that town, So what's going to happen when they
start to flaw out and we get into the warm word.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
I think this is why we get the provisions, because
we know that some is bad, right, We know some
bad yeah, very bad. And I think when we talk
around parents being parents, I think we look at these alcoholications.
We need to create environment where we can have the
discussion with a person that is that is an alcoholic.
If we need to create the environment where we can
have those discussions to talk to those people when there's
less supply, we know that there's less drinking and caring.
But I absolutely agree with your point that we do

(06:51):
in it and the Mayor's point we need to put
more wrap around services with family. I mean, we did
implement family responsibility agreements in the last set of reforms.
We did, and I think when we.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Do we not.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I don't know, but I'd definitely be interested in finding
it and I'll come back to you on a Katie.
Because if they are being put on family responsibilit agreements
and they're failing to meet that were then the judges
and the courts need to be accountable and hold them
accountable for that. That was the whole reason we implement it,
to bring the families, make them accountable for their kids.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
You know who needs to be accountable, It's the Natasha
Files labor government. Because you people blame everyone and anyone
else for your own failures. You could have tougher laws
that deal with problem drunks, that deal with offending, that
deal with youth crime, and that put the rights of
people to be safe above the rights of criminals. You
could do that tomorrow. You could also quarantine and have

(07:39):
income management for people who are in the child protection system.
That is a law that currently exists today, and yet
no one has been referred to that program.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Something quite a little while back that Marrian scrim daw
it actually exactly as potentially being a good thing. I
know that just Enterprise and flagged it as well, or
certainly is spoken about at different times.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Look, I don't the ability to do that, though, Katie.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Can we the territory government. The territory government has the laws.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Do you think it would be a good idea because
the fact is the Northern Territory government actually would need
to lobby the federal government to do it, because they're
not going to do it off their own volition unless
they're pushed to do so.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I'm absolutely we don't have a look at it. I
don't personally know what Lee is talking about there, and
I'll go and have a look at it now that
I've heard about it. But in terms of what you're
saying about forcing and you call them drunks layer on
the programs, Well, the reality is everyone of from a
pond through to all of your substance abuse organization in
the territory said what you proposed will not work. Now,
I absolutely agree we need to do more in the space,

(08:37):
but what you're proposing, making making them criminals again what
will do.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
What you're doing is definitely not working. So I don't
think you should shoot down a new option for people.
You've been a government for seven years, you're tired and
out of ideas and just not listening to the.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Can Clearly it's not working, not working. So if people
won't help them and they'll be I hear what Li
is saying, and I haven't excused about it in regards
to mandated treatment, but if they are not helping themselves,
then perhaps they have to be pushed into helping themselves.

Speaker 6 (09:09):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
But we've also like I've actually had somebody contact me
here at the station and speak to us on air
who who this was a few weeks back, who actually
said to me, Katie, if you're somebody who wants to
seek treatment yourself and is trying to go through that
process yourself, that it is incredibly hard to get a place.
It's incredibly hard to actually go and try to help

(09:32):
yourself to go through that process. So if it's hard
to do that yourself when there's actually the will there
and the want there, how difficult is it if it's
optional when you do the wrong thing that's right, and
it's taking up inordinate amounts of police time. I mean
this is a police resourcing issue as well. You know,
by shutting the bottle shops earlier and having different days

(09:54):
means it takes some pressure off police. But that's because
our police are overworked and under resource. We have to
properly fund and resource our police.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
I've gone blue in the face calling for a review
into our police force to make sure Parliament then, I mean,
if you hold the end of this government, you run.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
You've got to be very clear, and you've got to
be really clear. You get every one of the Seal
pre members get on here and they say this, they
want a parliamentary review where parliamentarians sit down who are
not experts, And I.

Speaker 6 (10:22):
Don't think we should the experts on.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
I don't think we would have enough time to give
it the time it deserves. Let's get the independent people
to do a proper review, which we've committed to.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
As parliamentary reviews happen into state and in other locations,
don't they good for it here?

Speaker 5 (10:38):
And then.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Good to this point where you know whether like the
party like you guys, sometimes you expect us to take
these pills and swallow them. But it's like hang on
a sick If it's good enough to happen in other locations,
why is it not good enough to happen here in
the territory with parliamentary it's on the police or whether
it's on something else, Like why can't we actually do
these things? I think that's slowly and slowly the Labor

(11:00):
Party in the last six years or seven years, you've
slowly sort of eroded that confidence and eroded that transparency
to the point where you're making it you know, you're
trying to make it seem like it's something normal that
happens everywhere it's actually not.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
I'm offering to you a review that doesn't have any
politicians in it.

Speaker 7 (11:19):
This can put you, which is great, But you guys
have been dragged there keeping kicking this review for the
last well since about to begin with, it was it's
not going to happen.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Worse, we were told by Labor that they could not
do a review until they had six months data on
a brand new electronic rostering system. I mean, what a joke.
And then all of a sudden, after estimates, magically new
advice appeared and they don't have to wait for the
rostering review.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's something else I do actually want to talk about
is potential changes to the BDR. Now, this had been
flagged by the Acting Police Commissioner Michael Murphy throughout the
week and I.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Just want you to take a listen.

Speaker 8 (11:58):
Here we go, and there's a lot of work kind
of way too with the review of the Liquor Act
about how we can do things smarter as well through
the band drinkers register, through some technology tools to help
not just the heavy lifting through police officers, but what
fundamental technology and assistance to reduce crime, especially alcohol related
crime with a territory perspective. But we've also got a
pretty keen focus on secondary supply from inter state, so

(12:19):
we still see some flow of supply from South Australia
and Queensland, so we work with counterparts there to try
and reduce that opportunity as well.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
How do you reckon we might be able to use
the BDR a little bit differently so that you know,
so that it could be more effective. Because even you
sort of think to yourself sometimes like are there people
making a number of purchases across the day and then
going and on selling And I know that that's something
you guys be looking into, but like, give is that
something that we can do more more efficiently.

Speaker 8 (12:45):
Absolutely so, if you've got a person that's going across
the Greater daal One area and to visiting ten bottle
shops and buying six bottles of wine, if somehow we
can detect that and feed into a high risk area
and we can focus our on that person because they're
obviously not consuming that much wine every day. We know
there are secondary supplies occurring across the graded Owen area

(13:07):
and the Northern Territory from people buying alcoholic different outlets.
It's better controlled across Tenant, Greek, Catherine and Alice because
we've got the police auxiliary liquor inspectors who can detect
similar behaviors. But in Darn it's a little bit different.
So technology footprint to identify people who are procuring alcohol
more often than not at what volume will allow us

(13:27):
to sharpen our focus on the harm them.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
So that was the acting Police Commissioner Michael Murphy on
the show.

Speaker 5 (13:33):
Yeah, have a review of the BDR, because I mean
I've I shopped at sometimes a shop at Palmerston and
go to the BWS bottle shop, and I was in
there one time and a fellow came in and he
got half a little cart and of wine and the
attendant said, oh, you can only buy one per day,
and then he off, he toddled, and.

Speaker 6 (13:50):
I said to the lady, I said, are you serious.
He said, yeah, that's the rule.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
I said, but I can buy a dozen bottles of
wine and she said, yes you can. So that's a nonsense,
Like you're restricted to a two liter task of wine.
And it's not just the BWS stores, it's everywhere, but
you can go in and buy six bodels of Bundy.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
Like that's just stupid.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
We've been calling for a review of the BDR for
four or five years, Katie, because of course its capability
could be improved. This government just continues to set and
forget about policy. They put it in and then never
go back and measure whether it's working, whether it's not,
whether it can be improved, and you never know. And
that's part of what's happened in Alice Springs. They put
in place measures, they don't actually have any KPIs or

(14:28):
tangible measure rules around it, and you end up in
these situations. So Michael Murphy's right. The COLP have been
calling for a BDR review for at least four or
five years, and day it's well over.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Jue, I just want to point out there is some
drilling or something going on outside. I'm not one hundred
percent sure what that sound is, but anyway, we'll keep
on track it along. I mean the Yeah, look, I
think that everybody would agree, and we've all been talking
about this for quite a long period of time. There
is no doubt that there could be some changes made
to the BDR to make it more effective.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, listen, and I disagree there will be changes to
the BDR. There absolutely will be. The technology is there,
we can do more improvements, so I think the BDR
is one tool. Now we've made it very clear we'll
keep the BDR. That is Labour's position. We know that
the BDRs previously has been scrapped. We know there are
other members of Parliament that have said that they will
not keep the BDR and they don't believe it works well.
We can make some changes to it that'll actually see

(15:20):
The one thing I would like to raise for your listeners,
Katie is we do have liquor cords and in Prap
we've got a liquor call where you can't buy Alcoho
unless you live in the area and can prove we're
going to drink it now that has seen a reduction
along with private security Surement systems coorn for That's what
I'm saying. We have the processes in place now, so
we don't need to change legislation. We just need to
start using our cords better and do BDR reform and
we'll see a much better impact.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
We're going to take a very short break quality sort.
Now what that drilling is you are listening to Mix
one O four point nine. It is the week that
was in the studio with us. This morning, we've got Leofanocchi,
a o Kezi Epuric and Brent Potter. Now, just some
news from overnight. Police are investigating after five cars were
stolen across Palmerston and Darwin. Overnight officers and the dog
squad works through the night, arresting four people and recovering

(16:02):
two vehicles. It is believed that the group were making
trouble at Mindle Beach before that crime spree, so hopefully
you know they have arrested everybody that was involved. It
is on top of, unfortunately, a terrible situation on Well.
I think it was yesterday I had actually reported on
this on a crime spree through Catherine East. It had

(16:22):
obviously resulted in multiple crime scenes, with the Northern Territory
Police calling for witnesses after Well youths with an eaged
weapon allegedly threatened different residents while breaking into multiple homes.
So look, you know, I've reached the point where you
wish it didn't have to continue to report on this stuff.
And we all understand that there's never going to be

(16:44):
no crime. I get that you're always going to have
bad eggs that are doing the wrong thing, but I
think that it just sort of it's getting like it
is getting heavy for the community to have to keep
worrying about dealing with.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
And you know, criminals are running this this territory now.
Katie under labor. It's just there is so little consequence
for their behavior. I mean I got asked to attend
a street meeting in Jingly this week and there were
thirty or forty residents there fed up. I mean they
have had an absolute gutful of Jingly, an absolute gutful
of what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

(17:18):
I've had another street meeting in Malac the same thing.
Of course, people in Palmestan, Castro and Tenant, you name it.
You can't go anywhere without people feeling so aggrieved and
angry and frustrated. Why do they have to barricade themselves
into their home, into their business. Why are the rights
of the offender being put above their rights to live free,
be safe, go to work. You know, people can't put

(17:40):
their kids on buses, they can't go to Casuarina, they
can't go out at night and get an ice cream.
It's too much for people to bear. And there's a
very simple solution, and that is that you make laws
that protect people and put criminals in the justice system.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
That sounds really good, Katie, but it's all talk. So
you've just just let for the last thirty seconds, I
absolutely understand people are frustrated, had a gut full, and
there's some people that want to take matters in their
own hands, and people should feel safe in their home.
But it's not as simple as the opposition would like
it to be. Everyone, And I've been saying it for
a while, okay, And I know we don't like to

(18:17):
compare ourselves to other states, but we're not battling this alone. Queensland,
New South Wales, Victoria, I've all had significant knife crime
issues and deaths. Recently. We've committed to implement a bunch
of changes around the bail strategy, which you'll see.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
In July definitely, you know, like hope, I'm hoping, and
the Police Commission of the acting Police Commissioner had flagged
that hopefully will have some further a.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Just recently yep, next week and I've recently I'm going
to get a brief myself before the sittings. We will
see some changes around the weapons. We'll see some so
we've spoken about wanding previously. I actually think more than anything,
it is a resourcing issue with police as well as
an education process. I've said before, we used to do
a one punch program. I grew up in Victoria with
all the one punch debths with young men and that

(18:59):
programs or runs, we've seen it. We've seen a decrease
in one hit punches. I think we need to be
doing stuff around knife crime with kids now so we
don't have this problem in five teen years.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And I don't think it's just knife crime though, and
I know definitely that's something that we need to be
talking about. But you know, even with these vehicles being
driven absolutely, But.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
In Queensland, so in Mount Eisa about a.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Week and a half ago, there was a situation where
we're a car was literally filled, you know my understanding,
stolen by kids. Well a friend of mine actually my
old touch football coach, and she got basically a car
got rammed by these kids. She's a counselor, but also
was then targeting kids on the oval at the school,
is my understanding.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
So that's in Queensland.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
But let's not pretend that that kind of thing has
not happened in the territory. We've literally had cars driven
at police vehicles.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
Every state you talk about that's having serious crime issues
are all labor governments. And it is a simple solution.
You fix the law at the end of the day,
the courts implement the law, the government sets the law
legal framework, and your government does not meet community expectation. Now,
if you're saying that there's going to be laws coming
into Parliament next week, we certainly haven't heard about it.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
And your government are.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
The ones who said, I'm sorry, but you said the
Bower review would be made public. So where is the
Bower review? Where is the Knife Cime review that you
would be made?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
If it will be made on everyone will see the
review in the bail and you absolutely listen to the
radio the Chief saying in July with makes.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Will those So those reforms are going to be made
obviously in July. That's next week because next week, so
that's obviously going to be happening. But wouldn't it be
the right thing to do for the opposition and the independence.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
To absolutely where is that?

Speaker 4 (20:44):
Where is that?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
As I just said to you, I still haven't got
a briefing, and I'm internal that give mind from Parliament,
you'll get yours. You'll absolutely get a brief We've always
offered you briefs. You'll get one and the public will
get to see the review. As the Chief community exactly
we've got three. It'll get public everyone I get to
see it. I've told you.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
On is meant to be a published bowl review. And
also the where is that it's nowhere? I mean, this
is all just well managing the media, not managing the territory.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Okay. I've come out very clearly on your show in
the last three times and said if it's not up
to stand it, I'll be the first one to call
it out and I've committed to you absolutely it'll all
be made public.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, look, there is no doubt that we'll be talking
about that, I'm sure next week on the show. Let's
move along though, because throughout the week we know the
Northern Territory government did announce that it's growing commercial aviation
services will in an effort to well with with this
new Territory Aviation Attraction scheme. So essentially grants are going
to be available and to eligible airports for the creation

(21:41):
of new routes and to provide extra capacity on existing
ones to Alice Springs is Rock as well as Darwin.
As I understand it, the airports will have the opportunity
to apply for a share of ten million dollars in
government funding to be matched dollar for dollar by the
applicant as co contribution.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Now we caught up.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
I caught up with the CEO of of Bonza, Tim Jordan,
on the show yesterday. He's keen as to come into
the Northern Territory to operate. But I said, what's going
to stop you? He said, well, red tape? Basically, if
there's too much red tape?

Speaker 2 (22:13):
So what is not the government red tape? Katie, let's
be very plea I think it's a bit of bus
so I reckon.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
He said to me that what kind of strings are
going to be attached to this money is what he's
trying to get to the bottom of as well.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
We would love to see there's always strings attached to.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Absolutely love to see Bonzi here. And I believe you
asked you questions in estimates and I think it's very
evident that one of those people would be talking to
is Bonza, and I think this announcement and he would
have said it was welcome to He obviously wants to
how it's going to play out, but I can tell
you this money is there to get that company and
other companies here.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
Well.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
He said that he's meeting with the government and also
the airport over the next couple of days, So I'm
assuming like today, maybe Monday.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It'd be good to see the airport right at the
red carpet as well and meeting. But I'd love to
see everyone make way. Let them in here, let's get
the red carpet out, let's spend the money.

Speaker 5 (22:58):
But Kate, at the end of the day, it's decision
and its commercial arrangement. So I thinkful for my limited knowledge,
Anti Airports Corporation they're a pretty tough business partner. So
if there's red tape, is the key issue that could
be red tape to do with anti government but also
with the Komorf government given its aviation.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think the red tape is around the grant funding
because there's absolutely no detail. So he made it very
clear much they were there. You know, they're interested, but
what does this involve? And of course government has stuck
ten million dollars without a plan on how to implement it.
I mean, the fact that they haven't even sat down
with bonds yet and that they're going to sit down
with them shows they haven't been doing the hard work

(23:38):
to get airlines here in the first place.

Speaker 5 (23:39):
And when this money.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Rails, well, well your Minister for Tourism couldn't articulate a
single airlines sat down with during estimates. But ultimately, when
this ten million bucks runs out, so do the cheaper flights,
and the airlines will disappear and what will be left
is a government again without a plan and a territory
going backwards.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
To make it sound all doom and gloom, the reality
of is we've got a great announcement. We've got money
on the table dollar for dollar match. So for example,
if it's about the cost of getting people through the game,
we need to offset, Well, there's twenty million dollars there.
If AGD come to the table, government will come to
the table and will make cost effective. Forget bondsie, I
mean bonds is a great outcome if it comes here,
territoins and get cheaper flights to put pressure on the
domestic market. What we also need to see is an

(24:22):
increase in the low fare international carry into Darance. We
create a demand for the domestic market to fly out
of a capital of cities and come to.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Honestly, we've got to do something. My goodness at the
moment is just insane.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, how hell ten million dollars long?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Every business case is going to have to count us
in the weight up, but there's going to be twenty
million because we're putting ten and ten, So ten from US,
ten from airport develops. It's a twenty million dollar fund
and that'll be for the airlines to figure out at.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
The end of the day, Like you see that the
peace and services works for is there anyway that the
fees and services can be changed in some way? Like
I know that we've got landing fees that are obviously
based on models of I don't know exactly what they're
based on, but is there any way that that can
be changed so that we are a more attractive place?

Speaker 2 (25:05):
It's the interest. So every person that comes through the gate,
there is a cost associated with that individual, and that's
worked out between the airport and the airlines.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And so what makes that call like why is it
that we're more expensive than I guess comparatively to cares.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Listen, I'm not going to share. The best person that
can answer that would be AJD because I don't know
the numbers behind you.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
We can do Katie. It's also about people being on aeroplanes. Now,
I've been traveling a lot Intra Territory lately. And I
can tell you the flight to Alice Springs one day,
it was likely to have twenty people on it. That
plane has been half full. It's so expensive, right, But people,
and we know tourism is down, and tourism is down,
and people are leaving the territory and that's impacting the

(25:44):
number of people on planes. We have to make the
territory safe. We have to rebuild our reputation. People will come,
carriers will fill up, prices will come down. This is
a crime, is an economic issue. They are intrinsically linked.
And ultimately you can have short term salute and hand
out ten million bucks here or there, it's not going
to deal with the problem, which is we need tourism,

(26:05):
tourists coming in and territory and staying and more people
growing our population.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
And again, just because you don't agree with the method
we've taken, we've acted to get more flights into the
territory and to say that tourism down, it may be
down in Alice Springs, but you're about to go to
Catherine and I know your own caucus team were down
there and they've seen how busy it is with caravans.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Saying tourism up this year because right location fifty down brand.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Individual locations, different places in down in my electric there
are hotels that are absolutely bumping.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Are you saying tourism numbers are higher this year than
last year's. You to be a very brave man to
do that.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
What I am saying is it is different in each
individual location. And you're about to go to Catherine and
from all accounts that I'm hearing from down there, it
is bumper a bumper. Now to say we're doing nothing
on the airlines is a complete fallacy. One minute you're
saying we're not doing enough, the next you're saying it's
a short term measure that's going to fall over. We
have to continue to try and put in centicee to
get the airlines.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
There needs to be a very clear strategy, yes, in
regards to aviation, and I don't think we have that.

Speaker 6 (27:02):
Yes, there's tourism strategies.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
But we talked about the fly So I mean it's
six hundred bucks give or take one way to our springs,
so that's twelve hundred return and for twelve hundred you
can get up to Singapore and Balley for two weeks.

Speaker 6 (27:13):
Type of thing.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
So you know, and that's probably just interstate travel or
business people or whatever. But there needs to be a
very clear strategy going forward when it comes to aviation
slash tourism slash business, because.

Speaker 6 (27:30):
I just think we're just going to be here.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
I mean, I can recall probably a silky goverment previously
when money was given I think to Air North to
do the milk run up and down the track, and
that didn't last long because you know, it wasn't cost
effective for the airline. And these these these airlines are businesses.
They can't run. They've got to make a profit, otherwise
they'd be a charity and they're not. But there just
doesn't seem to be a clear path forward in regards
to aviation and the tourism. And I'm not one hundred

(27:54):
percent sure that it is bumper. The tourism is boom.
It's good, probably is, but it's I mean, you can
pick in it. I mean, to Catherine Show, we look
for me.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I think if I'm going to if I'm going to
believe that tourism is bumper a bumper at the moment,
I believe it when I'm being told that by tourism
operators or by Tourism Central Australia or Tourism topic.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Telling me that, but we couldn't get in the restaurant
the other night. The hotels are for what it will.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Be because it's well, because it's the middle of the
dry season, and because we've got events on at the moment.
But I think that to to sort of insinuate that
that's across the board around the territory isn't accurate. You know,
if you go into you are trying to say that
it is. You know that tourism's bumped a bumper. And
I think that any tourism operator out there listening right now,
some of them might say, look, we are incredibly busy,

(28:44):
but I think that there would be across the whole
year you'd be struggling to sort of you know, to
be making the same kind of of money as what you've.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Made because the season is not finished. So you know,
we had a really slow start, but from all the counts,
it's now getting busier.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I mean on the fly, I know we have
We've got hotel operators and others that listen to the show,
So feel free to give us a call or send
us a text. You are listening to mix one O,
four nines.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Three to sixty. I didn't hear what you three said.
Then when we're off air on.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
The track, I didn't get the com.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
But still a bit of drilling going on out there.
There is some work.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Going on just outside the studio and it is Yeah,
it's all happening out here. But anyway, let's continue to
discuss the big issues of the week, and we know
that a well. The IKAK has announced that there's going
to be some changes after a former COLP member was
hired to work in the office of the.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Territory's corruption watchdog.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
That person's been reassigned to a non investigative area following
some public backlash. Now, in a statement on Wednesday, the
KAQ Commissioner, Michael Richards said while that person had performed
exceptionally well, his hiring represented an organizational failure, and the
IKAK Commissioner said, I acknowledge and accept the adverse impact

(29:58):
this decision has had on the repute of my office.
He said, as I often say myself, perception is just
as important as reality, and this was an organizational failure
for which I am responsible and I apologize for it. Now,
notwithstanding the above, the individual involved has done nothing wrong
and nothing I say should be seen as any criticism

(30:18):
of him. Indeed, he's performed exceptionally well. Nonetheless, the IKAC
Commissioner has announced a number of changes which will come
into place, so, you know, so basically prior to applications
being considered further, he's going to determine whether the nature
and extent of any past political activity represents an unmanageable

(30:39):
risk to his office. But I think that what it
actually highlights is that here in the Northern Territory there
is not six degrees of separations.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
We're a small community, Katie. I find it extraordinary, given
the history of the past Commissioner Fleming and all the
staff that he employed who were very questionable in their performance,
behavior and professionalism, that one of the new things in
the new with the new commissioner and a new organizations,

(31:11):
shall we say, would be the recruitment practices.

Speaker 6 (31:15):
So to come out now and say that.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
Oh, well, it's well, if he's taking failure, fine, you know,
he said, yep, yep, I'll take it on at the top, yep,
apologize to people, and that's that's appropriate.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
But to say, now, given all the.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
History that's gone before this organization in regards to recruitment
and outside consultants that somehow this is now a big issue.
I would have thought the recruitment processes of people going
into an IK would be exemplary in regards to filling
in the form have you worked.

Speaker 6 (31:46):
Any political affiliations? Have you got a criminal check? You know?

Speaker 5 (31:48):
Have you got you know, a dog that's going to
get put on a band dog breeders list or something,
you know.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
So to come out now and.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
Say, oh, there's a problem because this dude you know
had political affiliations, I just think, what are the practices
were in that organization and not exemporary as they should be.

Speaker 6 (32:03):
I just find it extraordinary. And the fact that this
story has gone on all week.

Speaker 5 (32:07):
Yeah, public relations wise has been a disaster for the organization.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Look, I guess you know, he's he's obviously done the
right thing in terms of once he's realized what's you know,
what's going on?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
But well, sorry, Katie and everyone in this room got
the same letter I did. So the story gets broken.
Earlier in the week Sunday, we get a letter that
he cesed us onto the sense of the Chief that
basically semi acknowledges the fault. You know, he needs to
be absolutely above reproach, like this doesn't at all meet
any pub test. You talk to anyone in the street

(32:37):
and they go, how could you get this so wrong?
And I don't begrudge the individual that's been high. I
think everyone he needs employment. He's done nothing wrong and
putting all politics aside, that individual has done nothing wrong right,
But he sends a letter on Sunday that says he
wants changes to the Act. You don't need changes in
the Act to look at it, practice to look at
it and go, you were the campaign manager on the
Fanny Bay by election for the CLP, or you had

(32:58):
some involvement on the campaign with him the last year,
and we're going to hire you as an investigator. And
to say the sixty something percent of his investigations that
they do is political. Everything the akak does is political,
whether it's the Liberal Party, of the Labor Party, the Greens,
the Independence, everything is that is political. He has to
be above reproach. And he's demonstrated that his judgment in
this instance wasn't there. Now he's going to have to

(33:19):
work that back at a time and I saw Matt
Cunningham's article in newspaper the other day at a time
when we've had calamity after calamity in that organization, they
really need to start demonstrating people that you can be
confident going to them. They'll treat it seriously and they'll
act when they need to.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Do you think that we're better off having ICAC investigations
go through a national body.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Well, at the time that we implemented the IKAK, and
it was a commitment that we made and we delivered
on it, but at the time there wasn't a national one.
I mean, these are discussions that I'm sure the chief
will be having and she'll be considering, and it's in.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
That but I just can't understand that why that funding
is sort of being reduced.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Well, we actually clarified in estimates that I said to him,
how many of your referrals have already been investigating referred
by another department and he says about a third. So
if you removed a third of those re look at cases,
he has enough resources then to investigate new cases. So
I don't think it's an issue in funding. And we
clarifyed in estimates that the money was a one off
and it's come back down to his normal line funding.

(34:10):
But I do think that if it would be a
different discussion if there was already a national body in
place when we made the KAC, there.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Wasn't I think he could bring There's going to be
people listening though, that are thinking to themselves, well, here
we go. Labor is trying to have these scrutiny for themselves.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
I'm not saying change, I'm just saying, at the.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Time, I.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
Don't think that's the case. Let's be very clear about this.
Our territory IK looks at territory departments. It doesn't look
at commonwealth departments. The federal ICAC will look at Commonwealth agencies, departments,
commonwealth contracts, whatever to do with the KOMO. So, I,
for one, would not support our northern territory IK using
or picking backing onto a national for goodness sake, we're territory.

(34:51):
We're trying to someday in the future before I die,
I hope to see us as a state. This is
a step back. If someone is saying, oh, let's just
get the national ICAIC to come out, Let's be very clear.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I'm not saying that at the time when we set
it up wasn't. He needs to figure out how he's
going to get people's trust back, and personally as a
new person into politics. You know, I'm looking at and going, well,
how do I know that you're going to be completely
impartial when you look in the youths.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I suppose a little bit differently, and I go, Okay, yes,
you know a mistake has been made here, but he's
you know, like he has actually like he's acted on it,
you know, has acted on it.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
He's acted on after pressure that we're four days in,
Like he sent the email on Sunday the latter, he
then made a statement on Monday, and now we're reading
that he's moved the person and again this individual.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
Does your government actually ever said you'd made a mistake
and acted within four days? I think or mistakes industry
with pom poms, and there'd be fireworks. Honestly, this is
I mean, the hypocrisy coming from you, Brent.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Is we established the.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Literally trying to undermine and e road confidence in every
breath you took then, And let's not forget this is
the government, your government, the one that you were an
advisor for badly advising a bad government around having a
secret behind closed door review into the IKAK Act. So
your government has been we're still waiting. Your government has

(36:16):
been busy making sure that it controls the powers, the
funding and the operation of the IKAK. You've never made
that public. We still haven't seen the details. You've got
an eye CAAC commissioner saying he's been reduced budgets over
two years now, in significant amounts of funding, you know,
over to you know, around two million dollars I believe

(36:36):
it is.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
And now you're.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Sitting here saying, oh, you didn't say sorry quick enough.
I mean, what an absolute You are all about secrets,
you are all about control, you are all about a
lack of scrutiny and transparency, and this just plays perfectly
into your hand.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Very interesting because you clearly don't listen to me when
I'm on this show. Every mistake that brand.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I don't listen to you a little bit about doubt.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
The estimates community made it very clear, and you go
out to look at it all your lists, all the
listeners can go and listen and have a look. We
didn't reduce it by two million dollars. And it's very
clear that if some of the investigations they do in
some instance the third time on that same individual case,
which is a waste of resources. And even he said
on record embarrassing.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Let him finish, because just to follow on with what
you're saying, when people talk about resources and the land
councils often do this, oh, we need more resources.

Speaker 6 (37:40):
No, you don't need more resources.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
You just need to allocate the resources you get more
effectively and efficiently. And that may be the case with
the yes if there's been a budget drop, there's been
a budget drop, but how all departments across the Northern
Territory have had to revise their budgets. So sometimes it's
the resources, it's how you allocate them.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
We should be doing third time investigations.

Speaker 6 (38:01):
I'm kind of looking at.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Those and we go, are you surprised that we're doing
third time investigations after what had happened.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Under the previous ICA.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Look, I sort of go, I can understand why there's
things being just done again. It you know, even for me,
like I was named in an ICIC report without anybody
asking me anything about it, without anybody you know, talking
to me about anything, for me to have any kind
of opportunity to say, well, that was not correct, that
is not what happened, So I should be somebody who's

(38:28):
out there going, well, hang on, it needs to be disbanded.
But I think you do need trans like you do
need things to be investigated. We do need to make
sure that there's not corrupt behavior in the Northern Territory.
But we have to make sure that the k Commission
is able to do that, you know, with the with
the correct resourcing required.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
But it also comes.

Speaker 6 (38:45):
Back to the departments.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
If we're talking government departments to the Northern Territory. Government
departments should be rigorous in their own internal processes and
procedures such that things don't fall through the cracks and
ultimately ends up with someone making a complain mismatage.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
And that's a good point.

Speaker 5 (39:01):
Come back to the anti government agencies and the direction
from the government and ministries.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
A lot of these have gone through the agency review.
They then in somethings go to the Omberdsman, then the ombdsman,
then to the IKAK, and then that IKAK is upholding
as he said on the record, you know the determination
that was found earlier. Now, as I said, absolutely agree
with in Nikak brought. My concern is that it's taken
this long to acknowledge that just shouldn't have happened. And
you know, we got to a point where sorry, you
don't need to say sorry, just need to acknowledge it was.

(39:27):
It was a stuff up. You don't need legislation change
to fiction. It obviously you want it and you can
see it.

Speaker 6 (39:32):
Change matter.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
It should have just been identified.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
And look, we're going to take a bit of a break.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Gee, there's been a lot to discuss this morning, and
so much happened throughout the week. Look, I could talk
about the Commonwealth Games, the issues out at Howard Springs,
the you know, the games.

Speaker 5 (39:52):
The government did away with the cool Games.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I'm not agreen that he canceled it, but do you
just jump on a second. Games said it was going
to cost too much. Who's been fiscally responsible? And you're saying.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
By running it out in the regions, trying to win
within the regions, and you go, you've got all this
infrastructure in Melbourne where you could have actually run the
games well, and you know what, you can cancel a lot,
but when you cancel sport, in my eyes my.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Revolting. But looks something I do want to talk.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
About very briefly is vaping because it is something that
if you if you've got kids, whether you're you know
or a grandparent or a cara or an aunt or
an uncle, you'll understand that this is a really serious
issue in fact amongst our youngsters in the Northern Territory.
Right now, we know that the Northern Territory government have
announced this educative campaign to try to really get kids

(40:57):
away from the vapes. President to in t corg Soo
Tabby Fudge, she joined me on the show yesterday. I
tell you what some of what she had to say
was absolutely shocking in the sense that she'd said she
knows of kidd in.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Grade three that have been vaping at a school.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
She knows that in some school she's had principles say
to her that they've literally had boxes of I don't
even know what you call.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Them, partridges or whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
The product of vapes being taken out like it is shocking.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
But there's also the shocking part is how some kids
are getting their hands on vapes.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Well, I mean, Brent Shirley, you can enlighten us, because
let's not forget the first day of parliament after Declan
Lavity lost his lives at the hands of a criminal.
The first thing the government did was bring in a
parliamentary inquiry into vaping rather than dealing with crime fine
and so a committee was established. You were the chair

(41:55):
of that committee, Brandt. What did that committee do and
how long did it last? Because my understanding is it's
been disbanded.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
You absolutely know. You know it's been dispanding because the report.
Everyone knows that.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Now, why committee a couple of weeks labor.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Question, I'll answer it. The Commonwealth government brought it. They
brought in a bunch of reforms, and the reality of
it is tobacco legislation and the control and importation and
sale of that sits with the federal government. And this
is a tobacco product, make no bones about it. Every
one of the vaporizers that you find, or majority of
them that you find, has some form of nicotine in it,
and also the byproducts like acetain and the like that
they don't advertise it. And I think what the federal

(42:32):
government did absolutely needed to occur. And to be honest,
the data and the responses that we'd already seen the
on the Standing Committee, I was already leaning down that
path and saying we're going to need to treat this
exactly like cigarettes. It's great out coming out. Sure would
I have loved to have known day one of the
committee what the Feds were planning to do. Absolutely, but
at the end of the day, they acted fast, and
we've acted in line with them and this going forward exactly.

(42:57):
And again it's a waste of taxpayers money having a.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Committee just try to create in a committee that's tobacco
was a federal issue.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
You clearly didn't just listen. I said, well, the forms
they were going to make around vaporizeres.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
That's exactly the thing that I was interested in though
through the week as well is that we had the
principle of Duha Middle School on the show. He said
that they've got the detectives in some of those.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
About a couple under grands, but they work really well.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
So we've had other parents get in contact with us,
and basically, so you know, Katie, it's an issue at
my children's school as well. Kids don't feel safe going
into the toilets.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
At lunch time.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
So they funded that out of their own budget, their
their global budget for their R and M, and they've
put that in place. I know Darwin High School has
looked at that as well, and Eva has come out
and said very clearly that you'll work with schools on
how we can implement those if they see them fit
and listen. In darw and High as Doha Middle they
absolutely were needed and they work really well and they're

(43:50):
a low tech solution to a certain very simple problem.
It's like smoking, vaporizing smoking. It's the same thing. We're
treating it exactly the same. I know your listeners like
to hear around how we're funding programs. So we're seeing
a two third one third from Anty Cancer Council in
relation to the education program we're going to do. And
it doesn't just end with the flyers and education we're
doing that we're doing in the schools. The reality of

(44:12):
it is now that we're going to have that packaging
is going to change. You'll only be able to get
a vaporizer from from a GP that's pharmacy grade.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
We're going to be implementing changes to our tobacco legislation
up here.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Well, it's national now, so if we need to we
will still. If we need to make those changes, we
will and that'll come out with the Health Department. But
at the end of the day, the importation and the
sales already been double.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
But in the territory, if we're going to implement the
bit I've read about what Mark Butler, the federal minister, see, yes,
we will need that plane packages and put them behind
the counter like cigarettes, so that will stop a big
chunk of children getting access to It's like, I don't
know whether.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I'll tell you I've been that requests change.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I've been told of kids basically, you know, being on
on places like Snapchat, being able to contact strangers, meet
those strangers in public places.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
To be able to get vapes.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
So this is actually it's not just a health issue,
it's actually a safety issue in my opinion as well.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
It's the same by the police anyway, so they target
a legal sale of tobacco and saying with border force
when they do importation. And one of the issues that
we found even in the very short period of time
for the Select Committee was the way that you can
buy it on eBay and you can send it, you
can import them through the customs model and listen, border Force,
it's an ongoing issue for them around all types of drugs.
And you're right, the kids would use Snapchat and they're

(45:31):
also doing it to get other illicit substances, and police
are aware of that. But I think the very first
steps is just making it really hard to get off
the shelf. You know, you're never one hundred percent, as
we know with alcohol, with all other drugs, you're never
going one hundred percent remove it, but you don't stop trying.

Speaker 5 (45:45):
To regulate it more such young people in particular can't
get excess.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, it is a good outcome. Like I mean, every
parent is worried they want the kids to start smoking, Well,
you don't want them to start vapor and unfortunately we
don't know the long term side effects for people that
are long term vapors, they die.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Very important that we're supporting families. I mean this comes
back to you know, safety while you're online, a whole
range of other things and ensuring you know, it even
comes back to school based constables Keisier, which I know
is something you're very passionate about as am I. You know,
having the right support in our schools and with families.
Education for parents, I mean, you know, I'm a parent,

(46:20):
We're you know, it's it's you don't even know sometimes
what the things are that are out there and so
making sure that families can be in those those positions
to be able to look after their children is just
as important as making sure there's education within schools.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Look, we are going to have to wrap up. It's
just a moment away from ten o'clock. Opposition leader Leafanoki,
thank you so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Thank you. I'm off to Catherine Show now. It'll be great,
but thank you for saving me.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Kezy Puric, thank you. Brunes Potter, the labor member for
Fanny Bay, thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Thanks Katie.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Good to see you all and we'll talk to you
again very soon. You are listening to Mix one O
Fortnite's three sixty.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
It is the Week that was