Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as you heard on the show yesterday, the Bail
and Weapons Offenses Review was released and recommended no changes
to bail laws. There is a change in definition of
machetes and access, meaning people committing offenses with these weapons
will now be subject to bail laws passed in late March.
Those laws were passed following the stabbing death of twenty
(00:22):
year old bottle shop worker Declan Lavity and mean people
charged with violent offenses involving certain weapons will be subject
to a presumption against bail. But some in the community
felt the bail reform should have gone further and included
other things being used as weapons. Today, a petition signed
by fifteen thousand people is going to be presented to
(00:45):
the Parliament. It was created by Samara Lavity and its
supports further change, but despite community concerns, the Task Force
recommended that no further changes be made to the Bail Act.
Now joining me on the line ahead of Parliament resuming
is the Chief Minister Attasha Files.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Good morning to you, Chief Minister.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now, Chief Minister, why didn't you go a step further
to meet community expectations with the bail legislation.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So, Katie, we acted in March. We undertook that review
so that we could ensure that everything we've done was scrutinized,
and we've seen further changes around the actual weapons themselves,
and also the work that we're undertaking with the Nice strategy,
which should be complete in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Now, it is noted in that report which was released
that data indicates there are a large number of defendants
charged with weapons offenses who are not captured by other
presumptions against bail, relatively few of whom, though, commit new
violent offenses while on bail. Now, according to the report,
this category of defendant therefore presents a low risk of
(01:52):
committing new violent offenses while on bail, and introducing a
presumption against bail for this group would capture a large
number of defendants who pose a low risk to community
safety and could put undue pressure on an already overcrowded
prison system. Now, Chief Minister, if these numbers are low
(02:14):
and the likelihood of someone reoffending is so low that
further changes are not needed, what do you think went
wrong in the situation where Declan Lavity was allegedly stabbed
to death by a person who was on bail at
the time of the attack over an earlier alleged assault.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Katie, before I respond to that specific question, I'd just
like to again acknowledge Declan's family and his friends and
the grief that they are still suffering. In terms of
knife crime, we want to stop knives being carried around
in the Northern Churchy. We want to stop knife crime
before it happens. And so what we are trying to
do is eliminate knives being carried and used in the
(02:56):
heat of the moment in absolutely tragic circumstances.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And look, I'll get that, we will get to that,
but my question is very clear and simple. What do
you think went wrong? And I know that you will
say that it is a matter before the courts. I'm
not expecting you to go into the detail. But clearly,
somehow someone has slipped through the gaps and a life
has been lost. So that is why the community is
(03:19):
calling for further change.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
So Katie again point to the response that I just provided.
It is not acceptable to carry knives around in our community.
We need to make sure that that is not commonplace
and we need to remove those knives so that we
don't see tragedies within our community.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So again I'll ask, if the bail laws are correct,
how did this alleged defender slip through the gaps?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So, Katie, what this review has shown us is that
we've got a robust act, that we've got very wide reaching,
comprehensive bail laws. We have also identified areas where we
need to make changes. And as I said, we're also
working on that knife strategy and we've seen some really
good results from the wanding that has been introduced in
Queensland in both stopping people going out with knives but
(04:05):
removing hundreds of knives from the community. So that's what
we're aiming to achieve through this comprehensive work.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Look, I will get to the ins and outs of
that knife strategy in a moment, but what I'm trying
to ask right now is how can Territorians be sure
that there aren't others who are slipping through the cracks
and putting the lives of innocent territorians at risk.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So that is the task force and that review which
was undertaken by Anti Police, Department of Attorney General and Justice,
Correctional Services, the DPP and Territory Families and they were
looking closely at the data and the evidence relating to
weapon offenses in the Northern Territory, and that's where they
looked at the changes that we made in March on
Urgency and also recommended these further changes.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So as it stands with the acceptance of the report
into bail and the recommendation that no further changes are
required into the Bail Act or the Criminal Code, can
you guarantee that we're not going to see another Territorian's
life lost at the hands of an offender on bail.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So that is what I'm working to achieve, Katie, through
all of this work, because it is an absolute tragedy
when a young person, any person loses their life. But
when we see these heated moments that happen from time
to time, but then when you suddenly have a knife involved,
it can so quickly end in absolute tragedy.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, and we've seen it, and that's where the community
really is screaming out wanting further change. So the review
recommended further changes to the Weapons Control Act two thousand
and one, including adding an axe into the definition of
a control weapon and clarifying the definition of a knife
to include a machete. Now violent offenses involving these weapons
(05:40):
will now trigger a presumption against bail. Why were those
types of weapons not already included?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So, Katie, in terms of the acts, it is as
you've just said, changing it from an offensive weapon to
a controlled weapon. In terms of the machete, the definition
has been strengthened and this was on the request of police.
It felt it was already in the legislation, but they
wanted it strengthened to make it absolutely clear, and so
that's where we've acted and listened to police on that change.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
But so again, if you offended with those types of
weapons prior, you could get bail.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So this is coming into that presentation.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes or no, like you could get bail.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well on the machete, Katie, the presumption it was believed
that it was against but they wanted to be absolute
clarity and that was a request from police, And so
that's where we've listened to police in this review on
making sure that that is very clear. The definition of
a knife includes a machete.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Can you understand how people listening this morning will be
thinking that is absolutely absurd that it wasn't already included.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So Katie, we have legislation. It's developed over many years.
Things are reviewed and this is what we undertook a
comprehensive review, looking at every element of it. We made
urgent changes in March. This review highlighted that those changes
were the right thing to do. And as I said,
inn of the definition of a machete, it was believed
(07:03):
to be within that definition, but we are strengthening it
for absolute clarity, to make sure that it is a
controlled weapon. And there's that presumption against but.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So rocks, bottles, makeshift weapons, they're not going to be included.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
So Katie that this is a difficult space. There is
a range of items that are in everyday life that
can become a weapon, and so it's important police can
act if someone is using that as a weapon. But
at the same time we don't want to be cumbersome
in terms of.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But if someone uses one of those things as a weapon,
if they use a makeshift weapon or a rock or
a bottle to assault somebody else, is their potential that
they can get out on bail.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So police will make the decision based on the evidence
before them with that particular case.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But the presumption is for.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So Katie, in terms of everyday items that can be
used as a weapon. You know, people can use a
metal water bottle, they can use a phone, and so
police will make those decisions.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But what we want, so the presumption, what I'm really
trying to get to the bottom of for territory ends
to understand, is that if a makeshift you know, weapon
is used, or if a rock or a bottle is
used to assault somebody else, the presumption is not going
to be against bail.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So Katie, police will guided by the legislation and also
the courts will decide if someone gets bailed based on
a range of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But let's be really blunt here.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
The government are the ones you guys, You are the
decision makers. You are the ones that the community expects
to make difficult decisions for all of the Northern Territory
for the betterment of the territory. And I understand that
there's lots of different reasons that can come into play here.
I you know, domestic violent situations where a victim may
defend themselves with something that could be a makeshift weapon.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We don't want.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
People like that getting caught up here and having that
presumption against bail when they are potentially a victim. But
when you are talking about somebody committing a violent offense
with a makeshift weapon, the expectation from the community is
that they're not going to be.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Allowed out on bail.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
But from what I am hearing, that presumption is not
against bail and the recommendation of the review is for
there to be no changes.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So, Katie, the review looked at the bail provisions and
looked quite broadly at them. The review has told us
two things that we need to give police powers to
stop and search to help combat nice crime, and to
widen the scope of what is deemed as a controlled weapon,
and that is where you've seen the changes recommended. It
did look at the instances that you're talking about and
feels the legislation is appropriate, that it is robust to
(09:42):
keep territory in safe, but at the same time be
practical and allow police out on the beat to make decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And are you confident that that's in line with the
community's expectations, Katie, In.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Terms of community expectation, absolutely, our courts, our police make
sure they are part of our community. They understand the
community's expectation. But what this review did was looked at
what we had in place for bail and weapons, and
it has made recommendations. It also reviewed the recommendations we
made on urgency and what we are doing also is
(10:17):
tackling knife crime. It's not acceptable to go out to
think I want to put a knife in my pocket
and go out. This is the issue that we're seeing
with tragic circumstances in our community.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I will ask you again, as it stands, with
the acceptance of that report into bail and the recommendations
that no further changes are required to the Bail Act
or the Criminal Code, can you guarantee that we're not
going to see another Territorian's life lost at the hands
of an offender on bail, Katie.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I don't want to see any Territorian's life lost, and
that's why we're working so hard in this knife crime space.
Since when did it become okay to put a steak
knife in your pocket before you head out on Mitchell
Street for the evening. That's the nice going to say.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I get what you're saying, but it's not only knives
that are being used. And I know that there will
be people screaming at their radios this morning saying Wolfie
It's not just knives that people are using. We're seeing
cars driven through shops. You know, you're seeing all sorts
of everyday things being used as weapons. And I've read
(11:20):
the report, like I understand it. I can see this
from both sides. But what I think Territorians want to
be sure of is that they're going to be safe
and that somebody that they expect would not be on
bail isn't ending up on bail and then committing another offense.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And that's what we're working to do, Katie, every day,
is to make the territory a safer place.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
All right, let's talk about these changes when it comes
to knives and the government introducing the new legislation which
will allow police to want people in public places, Chief Minister,
how exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Is this going to work?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Is it going to be anywhere that they can wand
someone who they think may be armed with a knife.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This is based on trials that have been undertaken in Queensland,
and Queensland's recently extended their laws in this space. So
it'll be at transport hubs, transport itself, their public buses
for example, high risk areas, and there's also provision for
police to enact. If they reasonably need to utilize that tool,
they can. It's very simple, it's non invasive. Someone. It
(12:21):
is a small metal detector wand And when you're entering
an area such as Mitchell Street, for example, there'll be
a police operation and they'll be wanding everyone that enters
that area.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And so do police officers need to get approval from
a commander before they sort of set something like that up,
because you know sometimes if there is notice that you're
going to set something like that up, surely someone had
just chucked their knife away.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
No, so not in those areas under and this is
the legislation that will debate today. So those transport public
transport for example, transport hubs and the high risk areas, No,
they will not. They will go in there and at
any time they can wand people. And they have seen
in Queensland people one not taking the weapons out in public,
but two hundreds of knives and weapons have been taken
(13:06):
off individuals which stops them from being there at the
moment that something gets heated. And as I said, when
something gets heated, if there's suddenly a knife involved, it
so quickly can end in a tragic circumstance.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Look, I hope that it makes a change.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I do hope that it means that we see crackdown
on knife crime, But how will this provide more protections
for staff at bottle shops for example?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So those high risk areas, Katie, have also been based
around the areas of high risk with alcohol, so identifying
areas where we do see behavior that is not acceptable,
and that's where that has come from.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Now, one of the other recommendations around it's actually around
education for judges and prosecutors.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Why is that required.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Wouldn't that come down to judges having to work within
the legislation that is provided by government.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So, Katie, this is an issue that has emerged quite rapidly.
We want to stop it. We don't want to see
people having this behavior where they're taking knives out, and
so that's why the task Force has also concluded that
it's recommended that there is an education approach for all
involved in this space to understand the serious consequences that
knives can happen very quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So it's just in relation to that knife crime that
there is that recommendation around judges and prosecutors receiving further education.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So Katie. We more broadly, and we'll be launching our
knife crime strategy in the coming weeks. We're working on
that as efficiently as we can because we want to
have a whole of community response. Coming back to the
point that I was making before, it's not acceptable to
be taking knives out, fishing knives, steak knives. We don't
want people carrying knives. And we've seen this change where
people somehow think I'll protect myself by carrying a knife,
(14:43):
and we've rapidly deteriorated. We want to remove that element
from every part of our society.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Educating the judges on prosecutors, I mean, surely they would
agree with that. You know that you don't want people
walking around with their knives, So why exactly do we
need to be educating them?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So we want to make sure that everyone in our
community understands how serious even the most simple knife, how
tragic the consequence can be.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So quickly chaffinis.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So we're going to have to power through in addition
to the changes that your government announced yesterday, well, the
criminal age of responsibility it's going to be raised on
August one. What programs are actually in place to support this?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
So Katie, we're talking about a very low number of individuals. Presently,
there's no people of that age being held in detention.
But Territory Families has stood up within the agency the
program that if someone would previously have been sentenced to
a detention center, Territory Families will now run that program.
That's in addition to the range of diversion and sentence
(15:45):
programs we have for young people across the territory.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Could that be like an out of care home?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, Katie, as I said, there's no one presently, they're
very very low numbers, but Territory Families will make sure
that that young person has a concert quent for their behavior.
But at the same time, we have that intervention and
we don't set them up on a constant cycle in
and out of our justice system for potentially their life.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Are those kids going to be forced to do those
programs though, or are they optional?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
They'll be forced, Katie. So if a young person is
held in detention, they won't have a choice of where
they go. It just will not be in a correctional facility.
And we're talking about ten and eleven year olds, only
very low numbers. As I said, there's presently no children
of that age being held in detention in the territory.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
All right, Chief Minister, We're going to have to wrap up.
But today in Parliament, a petition which has been signed
by fifteen thousand people, more than fifteen thousand people, is
going to be presented to Parliament. It's created by Samara Lavity.
The petition is calling on you and your government to
do more when it comes to crime. Today we focused
on Baio legislation following the tragic deaths of Declan, but
(16:55):
he's not the only person whose life has been lost
this year through violent and tragic circumstances. Many feel that
the announcement that you made yesterday is not in line
with the expectations of the community to keep people safe.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Why aren't you listening to their voices, Katie.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Each and every day we listen to the voices of
Territorians and we act to make sure our community is
as safe as possible.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Chief finisterra I'm going to have to leave it there.
Appreciate your time as always.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Take care.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Thank you.
Now, as you heard on the show yesterday, the Bail
and Weapons Offenses Review was released and recommended no changes
to bail laws. There is a change in definition of
machetes and access, meaning people committing offenses with these weapons
will now be subject to bail laws passed in late March.
Those laws were passed following the stabbing death of twenty
(00:22):
year old bottle shop worker Declan Lavity and mean people
charged with violent offenses involving certain weapons will be subject
to a presumption against bail. But some in the community
felt the bail reform should have gone further and included
other things being used as weapons. Today, a petition signed
by fifteen thousand people is going to be presented to
(00:45):
the Parliament. It was created by Samara Lavity and its
supports further change, but despite community concerns, the Task Force
recommended that no further changes be made to the Bail Act.
Now joining me on the line ahead of Parliament resuming
is the Chief Minister Attasha Files.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Good morning to you, Chief Minister.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now, Chief Minister, why didn't you go a step further
to meet community expectations with the bail legislation.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So, Katie, we acted in March. We undertook that review
so that we could ensure that everything we've done was scrutinized,
and we've seen further changes around the actual weapons themselves,
and also the work that we're undertaking with the Nice strategy,
which should be complete in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Now, it is noted in that report which was released
that data indicates there are a large number of defendants
charged with weapons offenses who are not captured by other
presumptions against bail, relatively few of whom, though, commit new
violent offenses while on bail. Now, according to the report,
this category of defendant therefore presents a low risk of
(01:52):
committing new violent offenses while on bail, and introducing a
presumption against bail for this group would capture a large
number of defendants who pose a low risk to community
safety and could put undue pressure on an already overcrowded
prison system. Now, Chief Minister, if these numbers are low
(02:14):
and the likelihood of someone reoffending is so low that
further changes are not needed, what do you think went
wrong in the situation where Declan Lavity was allegedly stabbed
to death by a person who was on bail at
the time of the attack over an earlier alleged assault.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Katie, before I respond to that specific question, I'd just
like to again acknowledge Declan's family and his friends and
the grief that they are still suffering. In terms of
knife crime, we want to stop knives being carried around
in the Northern Churchy. We want to stop knife crime
before it happens. And so what we are trying to
do is eliminate knives being carried and used in the
(02:56):
heat of the moment in absolutely tragic circumstances.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And look, I'll get that, we will get to that,
but my question is very clear and simple. What do
you think went wrong? And I know that you will
say that it is a matter before the courts. I'm
not expecting you to go into the detail. But clearly,
somehow someone has slipped through the gaps and a life
has been lost. So that is why the community is
(03:19):
calling for further change.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
So Katie again point to the response that I just provided.
It is not acceptable to carry knives around in our community.
We need to make sure that that is not commonplace
and we need to remove those knives so that we
don't see tragedies within our community.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So again I'll ask, if the bail laws are correct,
how did this alleged defender slip through the gaps?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So, Katie, what this review has shown us is that
we've got a robust act, that we've got very wide reaching,
comprehensive bail laws. We have also identified areas where we
need to make changes. And as I said, we're also
working on that knife strategy and we've seen some really
good results from the wanding that has been introduced in
Queensland in both stopping people going out with knives but
(04:05):
removing hundreds of knives from the community. So that's what
we're aiming to achieve through this comprehensive work.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Look, I will get to the ins and outs of
that knife strategy in a moment, but what I'm trying
to ask right now is how can Territorians be sure
that there aren't others who are slipping through the cracks
and putting the lives of innocent territorians at risk.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
So that is the task force and that review which
was undertaken by Anti Police, Department of Attorney General and Justice,
Correctional Services, the DPP and Territory Families and they were
looking closely at the data and the evidence relating to
weapon offenses in the Northern Territory, and that's where they
looked at the changes that we made in March on
Urgency and also recommended these further changes.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So as it stands with the acceptance of the report
into bail and the recommendation that no further changes are
required into the Bail Act or the Criminal Code, can
you guarantee that we're not going to see another Territorian's
life lost at the hands of an offender on bail.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So that is what I'm working to achieve, Katie, through
all of this work, because it is an absolute tragedy
when a young person, any person loses their life. But
when we see these heated moments that happen from time
to time, but then when you suddenly have a knife involved,
it can so quickly end in absolute tragedy.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, and we've seen it, and that's where the community
really is screaming out wanting further change. So the review
recommended further changes to the Weapons Control Act two thousand
and one, including adding an axe into the definition of
a control weapon and clarifying the definition of a knife
to include a machete. Now violent offenses involving these weapons
(05:40):
will now trigger a presumption against bail. Why were those
types of weapons not already included?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So, Katie, in terms of the acts, it is as
you've just said, changing it from an offensive weapon to
a controlled weapon. In terms of the machete, the definition
has been strengthened and this was on the request of police.
It felt it was already in the legislation, but they
wanted it strengthened to make it absolutely clear, and so
that's where we've acted and listened to police on that change.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
But so again, if you offended with those types of
weapons prior, you could get bail.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
So this is coming into that presentation.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes or no, like you could get bail.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well on the machete, Katie, the presumption it was believed
that it was against but they wanted to be absolute
clarity and that was a request from police, And so
that's where we've listened to police in this review on
making sure that that is very clear. The definition of
a knife includes a machete.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Can you understand how people listening this morning will be
thinking that is absolutely absurd that it wasn't already included.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So Katie, we have legislation. It's developed over many years.
Things are reviewed and this is what we undertook a
comprehensive review, looking at every element of it. We made
urgent changes in March. This review highlighted that those changes
were the right thing to do. And as I said,
inn of the definition of a machete, it was believed
(07:03):
to be within that definition, but we are strengthening it
for absolute clarity, to make sure that it is a
controlled weapon. And there's that presumption against but.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So rocks, bottles, makeshift weapons, they're not going to be included.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
So Katie that this is a difficult space. There is
a range of items that are in everyday life that
can become a weapon, and so it's important police can
act if someone is using that as a weapon. But
at the same time we don't want to be cumbersome
in terms of.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
But if someone uses one of those things as a weapon,
if they use a makeshift weapon or a rock or
a bottle to assault somebody else, is their potential that
they can get out on bail.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
So police will make the decision based on the evidence
before them with that particular case.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But the presumption is for.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So Katie, in terms of everyday items that can be
used as a weapon. You know, people can use a
metal water bottle, they can use a phone, and so
police will make those decisions.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But what we want, so the presumption, what I'm really
trying to get to the bottom of for territory ends
to understand, is that if a makeshift you know, weapon
is used, or if a rock or a bottle is
used to assault somebody else, the presumption is not going
to be against bail.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So Katie, police will guided by the legislation and also
the courts will decide if someone gets bailed based on
a range of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But let's be really blunt here.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
The government are the ones you guys, You are the
decision makers. You are the ones that the community expects
to make difficult decisions for all of the Northern Territory
for the betterment of the territory. And I understand that
there's lots of different reasons that can come into play here.
I you know, domestic violent situations where a victim may
defend themselves with something that could be a makeshift weapon.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We don't want.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
People like that getting caught up here and having that
presumption against bail when they are potentially a victim. But
when you are talking about somebody committing a violent offense
with a makeshift weapon, the expectation from the community is
that they're not going to be.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Allowed out on bail.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
But from what I am hearing, that presumption is not
against bail and the recommendation of the review is for
there to be no changes.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So, Katie, the review looked at the bail provisions and
looked quite broadly at them. The review has told us
two things that we need to give police powers to
stop and search to help combat nice crime, and to
widen the scope of what is deemed as a controlled weapon,
and that is where you've seen the changes recommended. It
did look at the instances that you're talking about and
feels the legislation is appropriate, that it is robust to
(09:42):
keep territory in safe, but at the same time be
practical and allow police out on the beat to make decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And are you confident that that's in line with the
community's expectations, Katie, In.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Terms of community expectation, absolutely, our courts, our police make
sure they are part of our community. They understand the
community's expectation. But what this review did was looked at
what we had in place for bail and weapons, and
it has made recommendations. It also reviewed the recommendations we
made on urgency and what we are doing also is
(10:17):
tackling knife crime. It's not acceptable to go out to
think I want to put a knife in my pocket
and go out. This is the issue that we're seeing
with tragic circumstances in our community.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I will ask you again, as it stands, with
the acceptance of that report into bail and the recommendations
that no further changes are required to the Bail Act
or the Criminal Code, can you guarantee that we're not
going to see another Territorian's life lost at the hands
of an offender on bail, Katie.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I don't want to see any Territorian's life lost, and
that's why we're working so hard in this knife crime space.
Since when did it become okay to put a steak
knife in your pocket before you head out on Mitchell
Street for the evening. That's the nice going to say.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I get what you're saying, but it's not only knives
that are being used. And I know that there will
be people screaming at their radios this morning saying Wolfie
It's not just knives that people are using. We're seeing
cars driven through shops. You know, you're seeing all sorts
of everyday things being used as weapons. And I've read
(11:20):
the report, like I understand it. I can see this
from both sides. But what I think Territorians want to
be sure of is that they're going to be safe
and that somebody that they expect would not be on
bail isn't ending up on bail and then committing another offense.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And that's what we're working to do, Katie, every day,
is to make the territory a safer place.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
All right, let's talk about these changes when it comes
to knives and the government introducing the new legislation which
will allow police to want people in public places, Chief Minister,
how exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Is this going to work?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Is it going to be anywhere that they can wand
someone who they think may be armed with a knife.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This is based on trials that have been undertaken in Queensland,
and Queensland's recently extended their laws in this space. So
it'll be at transport hubs, transport itself, their public buses
for example, high risk areas, and there's also provision for
police to enact. If they reasonably need to utilize that tool,
they can. It's very simple, it's non invasive. Someone. It
(12:21):
is a small metal detector wand And when you're entering
an area such as Mitchell Street, for example, there'll be
a police operation and they'll be wanding everyone that enters
that area.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
And so do police officers need to get approval from
a commander before they sort of set something like that up,
because you know sometimes if there is notice that you're
going to set something like that up, surely someone had
just chucked their knife away.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
No, so not in those areas under and this is
the legislation that will debate today. So those transport public
transport for example, transport hubs and the high risk areas, No,
they will not. They will go in there and at
any time they can wand people. And they have seen
in Queensland people one not taking the weapons out in public,
but two hundreds of knives and weapons have been taken
(13:06):
off individuals which stops them from being there at the
moment that something gets heated. And as I said, when
something gets heated, if there's suddenly a knife involved, it
so quickly can end in a tragic circumstance.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Look, I hope that it makes a change.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I do hope that it means that we see crackdown
on knife crime, But how will this provide more protections
for staff at bottle shops for example?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So those high risk areas, Katie, have also been based
around the areas of high risk with alcohol, so identifying
areas where we do see behavior that is not acceptable,
and that's where that has come from.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Now, one of the other recommendations around it's actually around
education for judges and prosecutors.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Why is that required.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Wouldn't that come down to judges having to work within
the legislation that is provided by government.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
So, Katie, this is an issue that has emerged quite rapidly.
We want to stop it. We don't want to see
people having this behavior where they're taking knives out, and
so that's why the task Force has also concluded that
it's recommended that there is an education approach for all
involved in this space to understand the serious consequences that
knives can happen very quickly.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So it's just in relation to that knife crime that
there is that recommendation around judges and prosecutors receiving further education.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
So Katie. We more broadly, and we'll be launching our
knife crime strategy in the coming weeks. We're working on
that as efficiently as we can because we want to
have a whole of community response. Coming back to the
point that I was making before, it's not acceptable to
be taking knives out, fishing knives, steak knives. We don't
want people carrying knives. And we've seen this change where
people somehow think I'll protect myself by carrying a knife,
(14:43):
and we've rapidly deteriorated. We want to remove that element
from every part of our society.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Educating the judges on prosecutors, I mean, surely they would
agree with that. You know that you don't want people
walking around with their knives, So why exactly do we
need to be educating them?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So we want to make sure that everyone in our
community understands how serious even the most simple knife, how
tragic the consequence can be.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
So quickly chaffinis.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So we're going to have to power through in addition
to the changes that your government announced yesterday, well, the
criminal age of responsibility it's going to be raised on
August one. What programs are actually in place to support this?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
So Katie, we're talking about a very low number of individuals. Presently,
there's no people of that age being held in detention.
But Territory Families has stood up within the agency the
program that if someone would previously have been sentenced to
a detention center, Territory Families will now run that program.
That's in addition to the range of diversion and sentence
(15:45):
programs we have for young people across the territory.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Could that be like an out of care home?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, Katie, as I said, there's no one presently, they're
very very low numbers, but Territory Families will make sure
that that young person has a concert quent for their behavior.
But at the same time, we have that intervention and
we don't set them up on a constant cycle in
and out of our justice system for potentially their life.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Are those kids going to be forced to do those
programs though, or are they optional?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
They'll be forced, Katie. So if a young person is
held in detention, they won't have a choice of where
they go. It just will not be in a correctional facility.
And we're talking about ten and eleven year olds, only
very low numbers. As I said, there's presently no children
of that age being held in detention in the territory.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
All right, Chief Minister, We're going to have to wrap up.
But today in Parliament, a petition which has been signed
by fifteen thousand people, more than fifteen thousand people, is
going to be presented to Parliament. It's created by Samara Lavity.
The petition is calling on you and your government to
do more when it comes to crime. Today we focused
on Baio legislation following the tragic deaths of Declan, but
(16:55):
he's not the only person whose life has been lost
this year through violent and tragic circumstances. Many feel that
the announcement that you made yesterday is not in line
with the expectations of the community to keep people safe.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Why aren't you listening to their voices, Katie.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Each and every day we listen to the voices of
Territorians and we act to make sure our community is
as safe as possible.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Chief finisterra I'm going to have to leave it there.
Appreciate your time as always.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Take care.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Thank you.
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