The Week That Was – 11th August 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, a very good morning to you all and a
very big week it has been.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
And joining us in the studio right now. For the
week that was.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
We've got from Catherine Joe Hersey for the COLP.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good morning, Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
We've got nai Kids for the Labor Party.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
She's indeed the Minister for Multicultural Affairs as well as
corporate and Digital Development and lots of other portfolios.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning to you, Good morning Katie. Great to be here, and.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We've got nine new Starwin's Kathleen Gazola, good morning to you. Now.
Might just make sure you've all got those microphones nice
and close to you so we can hear you very
clearly for the morning, because it's going to be a
busy one. I just want to take you through some
of the incidents unfortunately that have occurred from overnight now. Unfortunately,
a person's died and another has been injured after being

(00:46):
hit by a car on Baggett Road last night. It's
believed the pair stepped directly into oncoming traffic at about
six point fifty pm. The driver stopped immediately. That incident
happened just near Fitzner Road north bound. Police and fires
attended and the mail pedestrian unfortunately passed away. The driver,
as I understand it from what the Northern Territory Police

(01:08):
have said, has tested negative to alcohol and as I said,
did stop immediately. Meanwhile, police arrested a man in Alice
Springs armed with a knife. The Northern Territory Police arrested
that man for weapons offenses in Alice Springs earlier yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
So at about twelve pm.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Police were patrolling near a shopping center on Hartley Street
in Alice where members of the public alerted them to
a mail armed with a knife. They immediately Police immediately
located the twenty nine year old near the entrance of
the center and took him into custody. He currently remains
in police custody and is expected to be charged with
weapon offenses.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Now. In addition to that, and I think.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
That this is probably the most concerning one, police have
arrested eight kids who allegedly stole a school bus in
Alice Springs last night. That bus, well, that bus was
driven through town. According to the ABC, Alice Springs officers
eventually stopped the bus using tire spikes and return the
kids home to responsible adults. As they were all under

(02:07):
the age of criminal responsibility. Now, I say that that
is incredibly concerning because we're talking about eight kids who
are under the age of twelve who are behind the
wheel of a vehicle, allegedly bus.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's pretty frightening stuff.

Speaker 5 (02:23):
That is shocking to hear that, and you know that
a why were those youth of that age out on
the streets at night, Katie, But the fact that the
police had to use tire spikes to pull that bus
up and then they only got returned home to parents
is extremely concerning moving forward, Well.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
It is, like, it's so frightening because it's actually really
bloody dangerous for those kids, and it's really bloody dangerous
for everybody that's on the road. And it's unfortunately an
example of what people are quite concerned about with that
raising of the criminal.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 6 (03:01):
I mean, we obviously don't know the circumstances for those kids,
if they're known to services or not, or you know,
they're their home situations. But I suppose it's just another
incident of several more recently still back in our Springs,
of those issues that we are very well aware of
that we've seen in that town. So you know, things

(03:22):
I should think are probably warming up my hope down there.
I could be very wrong obviously being up here, but
that's the concern for a lot of people down there
is that you know, there is that traditional spike in
summer and the town and residents and you know, the
mayor has already said that they are hoping that the
government is putting in those preparing now essentially for that

(03:44):
summer period because there is a fear that again we're
going to have the same situation repeated twelve months on
from you know when we saw the huge issues down there.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Now, is that something that the government is doing? I
mean with the warms up, it is certainly a concern
of locals that live down there.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Is there additional work that's going to get underway to.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Try and stop this kind of thing from happening, because
we hear so often. You know, you've got to stop
it before it's occurring, but unfortunately it's continuing to occur.

Speaker 7 (04:11):
Absolutely, Katie, So with that incident's waking up this morning
and hearing the story of these young people controlling a
bus is just absolutely frightening. There is no excuse, especially
being so young when I was under twelve. I didn't
know how to operate any vehicle. N these kids have
managed to keep it moving and to be stopped by police.
It's I think it's a good thing that they've been

(04:33):
returned back home somewhere safe. They are under the age
of criminal responsibility. From the first of August, my government
made those changes. They will not get off scott free.
This is about, like you said, Katie, tackling the crime
before it occurs, understanding what led to this, the behavior,
the home life, the intensive family support that needs to occur,
ensuring that those children are safeguarded and that they're living

(04:56):
their life as a child, not as somebody who wants
to control I'm moving us through the city and put
others a danger.

Speaker 6 (05:02):
Can you give an example of what they will then
face that you said that they're not getting off scott free,
So what are the sort of things that they will
face to know that they have done the wrong thing?

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Sure, and that's really important, Kathleen.

Speaker 7 (05:15):
Our young people and every person who commits a crime,
who behaves in a manner that is not fit for
the public, they need to have consequences that are swift
and that are proportionate so that they can learn right
from wrong? So can you give Territory families will be
working with Northern Territory Police. There are programs called intensive
Family Support. So I'm not the expert on territory families,

(05:37):
but I push for this very closely in my area
for our vulnerable families. So Territory families go in and
they work with the family to ensure that there are
parameters in place. Maybe it's getting the kids to school,
ensuring that they are supervised, making sure that they have activities,
or they perhaps don't hang out with other kids that
they're getting into trouble with. So it's supporting the family

(05:57):
to do what they should be doing best, and that
is caring for their children.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Are they not doing that before it reaches that point?
Because I reckon that's what people listening are going to
be thinking to themselves. We'll hang on a sick shouldn't
that sort of already be happening before it reaches the
point where a bus is stolen?

Speaker 7 (06:12):
And also we would like to think that Katie, and
again I don't have the details of this incident or
the children involved or the families that they come from,
they could very well be engaged with services already and
perhaps it's not working, or maybe they're not known, so
I couldn't make a judgment on that.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
And I get that, But I guess what I'm sort
of trying to get to is we hear very often
from the government like what's going to happen afterwards, and
you know, the Territory Families is going to work very
closely with those families afterwards. And we don't know the
history of any of these kids or any of these families,
but presumably Territory Families is hopefully working with, you know,

(06:49):
with various young people in Alice Springs. And there are
various programs that are already being delivered or supposed to
be being delivered.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
In Alice Springs. So if they are working, why are
we in a.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Situation where it's continuing to happen, and particularly with kids
that are so young. And I'd guess I go back
to again the point that the government constantly makes that
we've got to intervene in the early stages so they
don't go down this path of bad behavior. Well, here
you've got a group of kids that are under the
age of twelve, and they're on that path of really

(07:21):
bad behavior. So where was the intervention before it reached
this point.

Speaker 7 (07:26):
And that's what we can't answer because we don't have
the details of the children or the families. But Territory
Families down in Alla Springs do an incredible job with
police engaging with and through the Youth Outreaching Engagement Team,
engaging with families that they find to be at risk
and the young people.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Which do you see what I'm getting at?

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Even the Minister has said to us before you know,
there's programs in place so that when kids are getting
on the wrong track, they're intervening before it reaches that point.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
O Katie, I'm just on those programs. I'd like to
know what programs NARI are available in Alice Springs and
how do we know? And maybe if the policeman is listening,
she might like to send you a message to know.
You know, those eight children that got returned home, how
do we know that they haven't gone out.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And committed more crimes?

Speaker 5 (08:12):
You know, the fact that they stolen a bus and
they're under twelve is extremely concerning. But I would really
like to hope that those those youth are being dealt with.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Territory families.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
There's some kind of intervention today as a follow up
and you know that we know that they're going to
be on a path to a better future, but what
actually is that program in our springs that they would
be going to do?

Speaker 1 (08:39):
You know?

Speaker 7 (08:39):
So I have no doubt that Territory Families will have
acted on this urgently to ensure that the reach out
to the family was undertaken and that a plan is
being put in place.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
I don't have the details.

Speaker 7 (08:48):
I'd be happy to follow up again, we don't have
the details of the children of the families, other than
the report that we wake up to the spoiling.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, and look again, I will say I think that
a lot of people will be wanting to know. It's
going to be quite the test case, I think for
the Northern Territory government, because you're talking about a busload
of of eight kids who have engaged in really dangerous behavior.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's dangerous to.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Everybody that's on the roads, but it's particularly dangerous to themselves.

Speaker 6 (09:14):
And the understanding of what are those sort of consequences
that they're going to face. You know, yes, they're under
the age to understand the criminal responsibility and stuff, but
you know, when your kids do something wrong in your house,
they get consequences. You know, you go sit in the

(09:34):
corner and think about what you've done and that's the
wrong thing. Like, you know, what are this program that
intensive family agreements and arrangements that's going to be explaining
to those kids that you have done the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
They go pick up rubbish, they go clean up graffiti.
He exactly, do you know that.

Speaker 6 (09:52):
There's consequences for your actions that you're doing something you
don't want to do because you've done the wrong things,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
And we did hear from the Minister for Territory Families
last week. She had said that she'd get somebody on
the show for us this week to speak about those
programs and to speak about how exactly it will work.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
We weren't able to get anybody. Well, yeah, we.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Weren't able to get get anybody from Territory Families on
this week. I'm hoping that we can next week because
the community wants to know, and there is actually they
deserve to know.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
We deserve to know how it's.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Going to work when we are in a situation where
legislation is changing and where a lot of people are
concerned about the impact that it's going to have. I mean,
then when you look at what's happened last night, I
know plenty of people listening are going to be thinking, well,
how is this going to be dealt with? And how
do we make sure that these kids end up now
on the right track rather than the wrong track that

(10:42):
they're obviously you know that obviously has happened overnight.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
But look, yep, sorry Jarther.

Speaker 5 (10:47):
Thing is, Katie, you know what power do the police
have or territory families have to actually have those families
and children do anything. I mean, these are underage, so
there is no criminal responsibility, So how are they going
to be going to do programs or anything like that

(11:08):
if if they're under the age of criminal responsibility and
there are no consequences.

Speaker 6 (11:12):
It's not mandatory.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
No, there's no mandatory, you know.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
So is it just the family says, oh, yeah, well
I'll take little Johnny along to that program and they
don't rock up that that does not pass it. With territories,
they've had a gut full of the inaction and the
crime day in, day out that continually goes on.

Speaker 7 (11:30):
So there's a number there's a range of legislation that
ensures that young children are safe and protected like the
Care and Protection of Children Act, and so there are
absolutely ways where police and government agencies can impress upon
families to do better and to hold them to account.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
I mean that would be a high threshold, though, wouldn't
it for some circumstances like.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
That?

Speaker 6 (11:52):
Does that kick in for these for aid, these kids
who have stolen the bus.

Speaker 7 (11:57):
I'll have to confirm that with the minister, but there
would be legal protection forus to make sure that they're
a company, that they're safe, that somebody is legally responsible
for them, because they're not legally responsible for themselves under
the age of twelve.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
I just like I do, just have to ask ask
you know myself, and I guess I'll say it out loud.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I've actually got a son that is this age.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I've got a son that's ten years old, and I
know where he is and if he was not at
home overnight and in the hours of the night, if
he was at a friend's house, well I would know
exactly which friend's house he was at, and I would
be speaking and liaising with that parent to make sure
that everything is okay.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
So again, I say, you know, how are we.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
In a situation where people don't know where these young
ones are. And if you don't know where they are,
why are we in that situation. If there is a
family that needs support, why are we not already providing
that support Because this could have ended incredibly badly. This
could have ended with a ten year old kid dying
behind the.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Wheel of a bus.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
All of so we have a duty of care, The
Northern Territory government has a duty of care to make
sure that that does not happen.

Speaker 6 (13:07):
And I think that's a question that a lot of
people have had during the whole youth crime issue that
we've faced over many years. People have asked what is
happening with the parents, Like, there comes a point that
you have a kid, that's your responsibility. You need to
own up to it and you need to face the
consequences too, because clearly you're not providing a loving, safe environment.
Certainly there are absolutely families where kids are definitely and

(13:32):
kids go off track and that kind of stuff. So yeah,
I think there does need to be also more of
a look at the family.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
I just want to bring up as well, because we did.
We did actually get a phone call yesterday. We spoke
to a listener in Malac who had actually called through
Mark and he told us about some situations that were
unfolding there in recent days where there is kids out
on the street late at night, in the early hours
of the morning. He actually is concerned that they're chroming
as well. That they're is evidence that they are chroming

(14:02):
and finding deodorant bottles and hairspray bottles and things like that.
When he's gone out to check what's going on outside,
he's getting abused. He said, there was a kid that
looked like he was about eight years old, putting his
finger up at him, abusing him. Now again, this is
where that early intervention I think is absolutely required. If
we've got kids that are on the street that look

(14:22):
like they're eight years old in malac, running around, they
might not be engaged in criminal behavior, but how are
we not intervening so that we're stopping it before it
reaches the point that it did in Alice Springs?

Speaker 6 (14:34):
And you're right on that chroming incident. We've done several
stories recently of issues increasing on that. Obviously, the odorant
is behind glass now in shopping centers. I know that
Georgie did a story a few weeks ago that dry
shampoo that she went hard is now behind the counter
and chemists as well, and she was talking to Mission

(14:56):
Australia that there's some pretty horrific things at their movie
into in instead of as well. So there's a major
issue there that we need to be focusing.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Is that your electric nai does that Malac fall under there?

Speaker 4 (15:07):
It does.

Speaker 7 (15:07):
So I look after Malac and Karama and parts of
Marara and Berrima and hearing those stories are very concerning,
and so I have a number of people who engage
with me as a local member and let me know
about problematic families or households. And as local member, I
work with a lot of the agencies and my colleagues
to shine a light on that area and on that home.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
So just have we been told about that in the
last couple of days, you haven't been contact and I
would hazard a guess, and I'd really hope that people
are not just posting on Facebook, but they're.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Actually reporting so that authorities can go on For.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
The concern that Mark in Malac had actually said to
me yesterday is that it's not criminal behavior, so you
can't really contact the police about it.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
They're not going to come out.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
And he said that then when you call, he does
go through the app, goes through the Larakia app, but
then it closes off. I think he said at one
o'clock in the morning, and then you can't actually report
until whatever time it is the following morning.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's not actually.

Speaker 6 (16:00):
An age situation there. If they're underage, I don't think
laraochie A Nation can pick them up because I had
actually seen a young girl chroming in the CBD broad
daylight in the afternoon. After seeing her in the CBD,
Willworth going behind me to get the hairspray and then
saw her literally out on the street on Smith Street
doing it bad daylight.

Speaker 7 (16:21):
I believe you're right, Kathleen, that Larichie Nation won't be
able to transport miners. I think there's parameters around that,
but they're able to engage. So we have a couple
of programs with Larachie Nation that are funded. They have
host programs where they have Larochia traditional custodians going around
and engaging with people from local residents to those who
are visiting the territory and letting them know that they're

(16:42):
on Larikie Lane. And they've got some protocols and they're
doing some work to try and make this place as
nice as it can be.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
So with the situation in Malak I mean, if you've
got kids that are on the streets, then in the
early hours of the morning, what would you recommend.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
Please calls the police.

Speaker 7 (16:58):
If you can't get through one through one triple four,
then you can do an online report.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
It's through the website. It's very quick. You'll get asked
to enter your email address.

Speaker 7 (17:07):
You'll then get a reference or a promise number and
if you share that with your local member in your area.
Me and this instance, I can follow it up with
the superintendent first thing. And because it's children, I would
also go to Minister Warden.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
All Right, we're going to take a bit of a break.
There is a lot to cover off on this morning.
You are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was well. If you were
listening to the show yesterday, you would have heard us
receiving a lot of feedback about the code yellow and
some of the streets that is on the Northern Territories
Health System right now. It is the fourth code yellow
for this year. We know that there was another one

(17:41):
as I understand it at the Palmerston Regional Hospital, but
that was caused by an internet outage or by a
technical fault. But we are in a situation where where
both the major hospitals are in a code yellow again. Now,
the Health Department did say that they wouldn't need to
defer elective surgeries this time round. A lot of people

(18:04):
questioning how. But we also learned so Bill Yan joined
us on the show yesterday, the Shadow of Health Minister,
and had revealed that throughout estimates, it was uncovered that
last year taxpayers paid over five hundred and thirty three
thousand dollars buying bed services from the Darwin Private Hospital
during Code Yellows. Now, I don't think anybody would have

(18:28):
a huge concern with the fact that at least there
is the capacity to be able to purchase those beds
to be able to be used.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
When we're in a situation where we're in a code yellow.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
But a lot of people really questioning the fact how
we are so far in you know, I remember when
this first sort of really kicked off. I don't think
i'd ever really heard of a code yellow, and I
worked for the Health Department for a couple of years there.
I don't think I'd ever really heard of a code
yellow until that code yellow was declared the same week
that the grant was given for the grand stand.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
So this is a you know, this is a few years.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Back, but it kicked off and people were like, hang
on a sect, we're spending money on a grandstand rather
than investing it into the health sector. Now we understand
the way in which that's all unfolded. But the point
that I'm sort of getting to is that there has
been a rolling number of code yellows over the years,
and it indicates to me that there is some serious
stress on our health system. There's some serious work that

(19:20):
needs to be done. We spoke to Sushira yesterday from Kota.
She had said that there is definitely people that should
be in aged care beds that are in beds in
the hospital. That's a terrible situation for those elderly people
to be in. And then it really opened a can
of worms where people are contacting us saying Katie, we
can't get an age care space for our parents. You know,

(19:41):
people contacting us that they can't get in to get
melanomas removed, all sorts.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Of different issues.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
So we've got a real I think we've got to
have some really serious investment into our health sector, the
AMA saying, yes, we do certainly need more funding and
that is a federal thing.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
But look, I don't know how we fix this.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's something that's going to it's you know, it's going
to take some time, it's going to take some effort,
but it's got.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
To be done.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, Katie, I agree with you.

Speaker 6 (20:09):
I mean, the code yellows were so few and far
between prior to that day with the Grand Sound announcement,
so we talked a lot about it. I vaguely remember
we might have had maybe one or two prior, and yeah,
when it happened, it was like a huge deal. And
now they come a lot more frequently, and I think
it really does show that clearly there's increasing increasing pressures

(20:30):
that it's kind of just exacerbating, compounding on top of
each other over and over again.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
And Katie, it is a concern that again I think
Natasha Files played it down as normal.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I mean, this is not normal.

Speaker 5 (20:44):
We know that hospitals are under pressure. You know that
clearly there's no plan moving forward. The fact that there
are mental health people and I've spoken to Sushira many
times about the fact there needs to be more age
care facilities. I know in Catherine need age care facilities.
It is not normal to be having code yellows the

(21:06):
way we do.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, it's not it's not normal for us to be
having these code yellows the way that we do. But
it's also it's not normal for us to be in
a situation where we don't actually have age care facilities
or ways in which some of our elderly can be
cared for in a manner that they actually that is
respectful and that they need and deserve, and you know,

(21:27):
and that is obviously when they're in the hospital, they
are getting it one hundred percent cared for.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
But it's not ideal for anybody.

Speaker 7 (21:33):
I completely agree, Katie, and I've had an auntie who's
spent a quite amount of time in bed block as
an age care potential recipient.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
She's now been accepted into an.

Speaker 7 (21:44):
Age care facility which is suitable to be able to
care for her and her needs up at hospital. Our
health staff do an incredible job to care for people.
It's not an age care facility, it's not an agecare setting.
It is a ward in a hospital, and it's very
sad and they do the best that they can and
we need those extra beds. And so I'm pleased to
learn that the federal government is working with our government

(22:06):
on a new age care facility and that will be
in Darwin and the design tender is expected to be
awarded soon our start.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Has that just been announced or when was that announce.

Speaker 6 (22:18):
The process to get a health fest and because yet,
as Natasha has said, in the past, age care is
the responsibility of the Commonwealth, so it's on them to
deliver those and in the past that they haven't. So
the anti government, I understood it had taken control of
sixty positions through that process, so then they're going through
building a facility. And of course, in fairness, there is

(22:39):
also that mental health facility that is currently under construction
at Royal Darwin Hospital. So you do hope that once
those are online there will be an easy of that pressure.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I hope it makes a difference.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
But look, I don't want to I'm not going to
let the government off the hook too easily because there
is actually a situation too where we've got people who
are needing elective surgery. You're needing things melanomas removed, and
it is taking years to be able to have that done. Now,
to me, it goes to the livability of the Northern
territory as well. If you actually can't get the treatment

(23:11):
that you need when you're living in the territory, that's
when people do start to go, well, hang on a second,
do I need to move somewhere where I'm closer to
the care that I actually need and that I require.
And that's not just the aging population. You know, that
goes right back to if you have a child that's
got mental health issues and needs support and cannot get
in to see a psychologist, which I've also been told about.

(23:31):
All of those things have a real impact on your
life and your liveability in the territory.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
And the other thing, Katie, is that you know, quite
often I hear people saying if in pain, get on
a plane. That should not be what territorians need to
do moving forward. I mean, the fact is, you know,
we should be able to have those services here in
the territory.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
And you know there's been the.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
Role out of Acacia, which is talking to just on
the weekend is a very clunky process that has been
taking I think seven years that's been ongoing, and you know,
that that is causing issues as well. But the fact that,
as you're saying, people, I know a woman in Catherine,
a senior woman who's been waiting more than five years

(24:18):
for her hip to be done and she's an excruciating pain.
It is totally unacceptable.

Speaker 6 (24:25):
I mean, it shows that the issue isn't a new
one that has been getting it's she had gotten worse
and clearly is reaching somewhat in a critical situation.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
What off our listeners had an interesting comment to make
during the week, and she said, Katie, I'd be really
keen to find out what kind of stress is being
placed on the likes of the emergency department by people
fronting up with alcohol, you know, with issues that are
related to alcohol. Aye, you know, assaults, injuries, you know,
various different issues that are alcohol related. And I'd ask

(24:58):
Robert Parker, the head of the about that, and he said, well,
I think all you've got to do, Kdie, is look
at what's happened in Alice Springs since those restrictions have
actually been introduced and the impact that it's had on
the emergency department. So it does make you wonder, and
I know we've got some very serious alcohol restrictions already
in place in the Northern Territory, but it does make
you wonder.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Whether they're working the way that they're intended to. Really.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
But as the Member for Barkley says, prohibition doesn't work.
He says it constantly, we need to address the root cause.
You know, So whilst there has been considerable changes in
Alice Springs with those alcohol hours that have come in,
you know, I don't think it just pushes the problem

(25:42):
somewhere else. And I know, speaking to a publican and
Catherine yesterday, you know some of their problem drunks have
come up to Darwin.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
You know they know that that they've come up to Darwin.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
So you're just moving the problem around, you're not really
solving the root cause.

Speaker 7 (25:58):
So I completely agree prohibition does not work. But sometimes
you need to put in strict harmonimization processes so that
you can save people from themselves. Now, the absolute reality
is nobody has the authority or the ability to control
human behavior. So as a government, we work very closely
with all of the support services. Has do an incredible
job and they're really overloaded with the vulnerable people who

(26:20):
continue to consume alcohol at dangerous levels In levels that
they get to where they can't control their behavior and
they become a risk not only to themselves but to
everyone else. And it's really sad to see. And I'm
always wondering what led to that. Why would somebody pick
up that bottle or inhale that solvent or put themselves under.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Through that process to kind of switch off. It's really sad.

Speaker 7 (26:44):
But when we look at it, we've got to have
measures in place that not only protect people from themselves,
but to give them the opportunity to do better for themselves,
especially if they've got young kids in the household, to
get back on track and to live a better life
and to not cause so many issues for so many
other people around them.

Speaker 6 (26:58):
But then that goes back to the situation that we've
harped on so often as to why the government allowed
restrictions to be lifted in Alice Springs once wronger futures ended.
That's the case that you know, unfortunately people need to
be stopped from consuming these harmful substances because they haven't
improved their behavior. Then how did the government allow that

(27:21):
to happen?

Speaker 2 (27:22):
So there hasn't been.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
That accountability ten years of federal legislation telling Aboriginal people
and remote communities what they could and couldn't do. As
a proud Aboriginal person, I'm always trying to push to
make sure that those responsible communities have the ability to
govern themselves. That's what self determination was all about. And
so ensuring that those who are ready to get back
on track and to look after and govern their own

(27:43):
affairs with the assistance of government and every other layer
of support out there, that's that's what we should be strugging.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
You had, like Marian Scrimjaw, you had others going in,
it's not good, it's not working. You know, Yeah, that's right.
I was strong Aboriginal people screaming for.

Speaker 6 (27:58):
It, saying that there should be a transition from that
situation to the new situation rather than just flicking as It's.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
Not like you didn't know that time was coming to
an end. So what was done in the lead up
to that to talk to those communities to work out
some kind of agreements for them.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
So discussions have been occurring over the ten years of
the intervention and the lasting impacts of that between both
levels of government, and you know, it's still questionable about
whether the intervention should have happened in the first place,
and so a lot of people were really looking forward
to getting out of that control of the federal government.
And so it's really important to hear both sides of
the story and to work with those communities who want

(28:35):
self determination to achieve just that.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
So what do you reckon?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Do you think that these alcohol restrictions realistically should be
scrapped that you know that people should have the opportunity,
and I know that that's what we're sort of working towards.
But at this point in time for Ollers Springs, it's
something that has been extended because you can sort of
see the results.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
But so what do you think.

Speaker 7 (28:54):
I think we're in a really good position at the moment,
and I'm really happy to support the extension of those restrictions.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
I think, like you.

Speaker 7 (29:00):
Said, doctor Robert Parker and other medical professionals will tell
you that it's having a really good impact on the community.
I think we've still got a way to go, and
I've been really pleased by the results so far.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
So for those who.

Speaker 7 (29:09):
Are being unfairly restricted and they have to go through
a little bit more rigmarole to get takeaway and they've
got their you know, two dry days a week. Sometimes
I'd love to see that in my own little electorate.
I think we'd have a great turnaround. So I'm really
open to all suggestions and whatever works I think we need.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
To stick with. But it's not forever.

Speaker 7 (29:27):
We will always have that way that we can get
out of it and try to work with the community
so that we don't have the restrictions in place forever.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you do wonder, like in somewhere like you know,
in a place like Karama, or in a place like whatever,
any suburb within the Northern Territory, what kind of impact
it would actually have if there was a couple of
days reprieve.

Speaker 7 (29:44):
Absolutely, And it's a conversation that comes up all the time, Katie,
which is really pleasing. So talking to the local licensees
and you know, seeing the harm that alcohol does through
our community and knowing that it is a legal product
if you're over eighteen and you have the ability to
purch so you can consumer as much as you like.
And so it is a concern and there are a

(30:04):
lot of people who need to be saved from themselves
and offered the opportunity to be clear of mind and
to live a better life and we keep pushing that
at the local level, and I do as a member
for Coroma.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
We are going to have to take a really short break.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
You are listening to the week that was, if you've
just joined us in the studio this morning, we've got
Kathleen Gazola, Nari ar Kit and also Joe Hersey and well,
Jacana Energy throughout the week announced that they're seeking expressions
of interest for the supply of up to one hundred
megawatts of renewable energy for the Darwin Catherine region. Now,
proponents are being asked to consider connecting at specific locations

(30:38):
within the Greater Darwin area that are consistent with the
location of the Northern Territory Government's renewable Energy Hub. Now,
I think a lot of people looked at this and
when Okay, this seems like a good announcement. However, we
do still have three of those solar projects that aren't
totally switched on at this point in time, because there

(30:58):
is still this work needs to happen so that the
system is able to actually handle it.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
And then this.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Discussion about whether those whether those solar farms now need
batteries and who's going to foot the bill for those batteries.
So the irony was not lost on me this week
when that announcement was made where we're looking for more
solar farms, yet we've got a few that aren't switched
on properly.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
Yeah, this is my this was my day off, so
I wasn't at the press conference and was shocked to
see that media release and was sort of like, hang on, yeah,
what happened to the current solar farms that we have
that aren't connected new ones?

Speaker 5 (31:36):
As someone who lives in Catherine and just you know,
five kilometers out of Catherine, we have a solar farm
that has been there for I didn't think it was
as long as seven years, but you know, potentially seven years.
I'm pretty sure that landholder still has not seen one
cent of rent from that either, and three of them are.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Not hooked up.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
And yet we saw the minister come out and say
let's have expression of vin for another solar farm with batteries.
When I read the solar farm in Catherine, they were
going to be made to well, the situation is that
needs batteries and it was going to be at a
cost of around forty million dollars, which was not affordable.

(32:17):
I read that somewhere the other day, you know, I
mean it was just for the you know, maybe that's
for the three of them, but they all need batteries
to come across. I I just read that somewhere and
it's the thing is, these solar farms were built with
an agreement to hook up to the grid, and all

(32:38):
this time, every day they're following the sun being worn
out and nothing is happening.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Is what I did wonder a lot, you know, given
the fact that we've got these three that aren't currently
able to be used, what's going to be in place
in terms of this EOI to provide certainty for the
proponents that obviously put their hands up for these new
solar farms.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
But also you know, yeah, if our system can't.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Withstand the three that we've currently got, how is it
all going to work? And I know that the minister
said that there will be batteries required and there's going
to you know, obviously the proponents are going to.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Have to go through that process.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
But why wasn't that agreement in place before these other
solar farms are allowed to be built?

Speaker 4 (33:20):
And also details them that Katie, I'm happy to follow up.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
The other thing, Katie, is you know, the labor continually
talk about listening to the experts, and the chair of
the government twenty seventeen report in Renewables was saying that
this is going to fall flat on its face and
it's an unrealistic regulation. So I just found it very
interesting that the Minister would come out again with expressions

(33:45):
of interest.

Speaker 6 (33:45):
Well do you think it just shows you how unstable
the whole network is, which is why that they're not connected,
and you know, currently going through some of them are
commissioning all the rest of it, so that yeah, once
they are connected, they don't then cause a whole complete
system black which we've experienced in the past, you know.
And the whole thing about the push for people to
take on batteries in their personal homes is because everyone's

(34:07):
taken up the solar panels on their roofs, so there's
a huge influx of power going back into the grid,
which further destabilizes it.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
So yeah, I did see the cut in the solar
tariff as well.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I have just found this article, so it's actually an
ABC article where that forty million dollars is referred to
by Oliver Chaseling and it says that E and I
Australia owns three of the four solar farms which remain idle,
so sorry there is four and the company told the
Utilities Commission that the cost of upgrading and maintaining them
to the proposed standard would be well over forty million dollars.

(34:45):
In its final decision, the Commission acknowledged E and I
held significant concerns over the financial viability of its projects,
but it would nevertheless be required to wear costs set
out under the new standards. So the Acting Minister for
Renewable c Lalla said the cost of providing battery storage
was necessary to smooth out intermittent output of solar energy.

(35:07):
But I also note in this article that well, the
chair of the government's twenty seventeen report into achieving the
Renewables Target, Alan Langworthy, said the idle solar farms had
been hamstrung by those strict generator performance standards, and the
new standards were implemented by the int Utilities Commission after
the solar farms were built in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I mean, that seems pretty unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
To me that we're in a situation where we've allowed
these companies or this company to build these solar farms
and then change the goalposts afterwards.

Speaker 6 (35:37):
Correct, And I mean I've had the report that Matt
Cunningham tried to access and then it was locked out
completely except for the opening page. So there are still
huge question marks as to what that roadmap to renewables was,
the cost that was identified to go along with it.
We still haven't had that indication exactly, that answer ever

(35:58):
given to us in regard to that whole roadmap and
how we're going to reach the target. And the government,
we obviously heard through in estimates was well behind its
current target, and now we had this announcement with more
solar farms to try and reach that target further.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
And that's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (36:16):
My government's continuing to move towards a cleaner, greener, net
zero future, and solar is a huge proponent and how
we get there. This one hundred megawatt project would bring
in up to fifteen percent of us to reach our
target of fifty percent renewables by twenty thirty. Some of
the things that Kathleen raised was about the grid capacity

(36:39):
and we need to make sure that we don't have
those systems blacks. So for information that Darwin Catherine grid
is a microgrid compared to the rest of the country.
We know here that we are reliant on our climate.
We have often days or a couple of weeks on
end where during the wet season we won't see the sun,
and then we'll have times where we have only son.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
So we've got to make sure that the grid is.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Hand do that right from the word go.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
And it seemed as though when this happened a couple
of years ago in Alla Springs, it was a surprise,
like it was sort of a surprise to people that
hang on this cloud coverage is meaning that now the
solar is not working and there wasn't that backup system
in place where you know, most people that have worked
I guess in that sector would have realized that you
needed to have those backup systems in place.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
But I've really got a question.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean, is this a situation where the Labor Party
is letting their ideology obviously take over the practicality of
reaching that target for renewables. And yes, everybody wants to
get to that point where we are at the renewables
target that we're trying to achieve, but you have to
make sure that we've got the funding or the finance
to be able to do it, and you've got to

(37:42):
actually make sure that the system's able to you know,
to handle it. So yeah, that that infrastructure is in place.
I think that that's probably what people are questioning is
is it's great to have these targets, and you definitely
need to have something to aim for, but you've also
got to be practical about them, about how much they
get a cost, whether you're going to be able to us.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, and that's correct, Katie.

Speaker 5 (38:03):
You know, we all want to work towards renewable targets,
but we're not going to reach them.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Unless we manage the economy and can attract investment.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
And by changing the goalpost like we've seen with E
and I, how is that going to give people confidence
to come and build another solar farm with the.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Battery you know that the minister was asking for.

Speaker 7 (38:26):
So I think it's important to note that, you know,
work continues to make sure that gorid stability and battery
storage is going to be suitable, and we're looking at
more solar farms in the meantime, but a project of
this size will attract what is likely upwards of two
hundred million dollars investment.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
We've got three.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
We've got four solar farms already that companies have done's
got three. That's a massive investment. How are you going
to attract new investment if these three are not even
hooked up and they've got to spend more money on batteries.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Well, look, I want to actually move on because I
do want to talk about investment into another area, and
that is actually our airlines and now connectivity, because I
think this is an incredibly important one as well. We
know that one of our key international aviation routes, linking
the territory to one of the world's busiest terminals, is
set to return to a daily service, so Singapore Airlines

(39:24):
obviously announcing that it's going to boost it's Star and
Singapore schedule from five days per week to seven.

Speaker 6 (39:30):
Now.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
The minnes of for Tourism was actually really honest about
this on the show yesterday and she said, Katie, yeah,
it's good news, but it's not enough. We actually need more.
We want more international flights, we want more domestic flights,
and she said she's working incredibly hard to try.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
To make that happen.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
She did say though, on a few occasions throughout that
interview that you know that the fees and charges at
the airport obviously do have a part to play in
terms of our attractiveness to some of those airlines. Now
we know we've open to Bonza before the CEO from Bonza,
he sounds keen as to come to the territory, but

(40:07):
he said that what's going to stop them is, you know,
is some of that red tape and some of those
fees and that kind of thing. It's got to stack
up for them. So how do we make this place
more attractive? And I'm not saying that the government needs
to sort of, you know, hand over cash to get
airlines in because that's not going to work. But how
do we make this a little bit more attractive and
more sustainable so that we can have more airlines operating

(40:30):
in the territory, hopefully bringing down the bloody cost of
flights and meaning that we don't have to travel out
at one o'clock in the morning every time you want
to go somewhere.

Speaker 6 (40:41):
Well, unfortunately, I don't think the Red Eyes are going anywhere,
given that we are on a raft base so it
can operate all year round, and then those planes can
then be used on the East Coast for those extremely
busy flights once their curfews have lifted. But I mean
my understanding is that essentially that aviation attraction fund will
help the idea. Essentially, it will help with those fees

(41:04):
and charges. That's why the airports can then apply to
open up a new route. So then it offsets those
fees and charges for those airlines. But the sustainability angle,
what you mentioned will fee is the big kicker. Once
that fund runs out, is exhausted and the money is
no longer offered anymore, then yeah, do those airlines then
pull out. It's all about keeping those bums on seats

(41:27):
and the freight underneath those seats to make it keep going.
But I mean, Daniel Roschford has said in Alice Springs,
if bonds A were to come through, he says, Alice
Springs will red Center residents alone would be able to
sustain that flight, let alone the extra tourists coming in.

Speaker 7 (41:44):
And that's the important information that we need to make
sure is heard by all of the potential new airlines. Katie,
Alice Springs do deserve more flights in and out, and
so do we up here in Darwin.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
But we do have a small population base. We're not
a Melbourne, we're not a Sydney.

Speaker 7 (41:59):
So knowing our locals and their trouble habits or the
ones that they would like to move to is really
important for selling the Northern territory for those regular flights
by other airlines.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
But also you know, I don't think we've sent any
detail of the twenty million cash splash which has been
offered to the airlines and also.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
To the airport.

Speaker 6 (42:24):
They're not going directly to the airlines. I don't think
the airlines, the.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Aviation to the Yes, sorry to the industry.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
And as you were saying, you know, the likes of
bonds are wondering if it's going to be tied up
in red tape. But we did also hear in the estimates,
you know, the Minister was talking about the social influencers
and marketing harder also to attract people. But we've got
to be able to have that to be sustainable and

(42:55):
attract people here to a safe environment as well.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, we're going to take a really short break nearly
time for us to wrap up this morning. If you
have just joined us in the studio, we've got nine
news Darwin's Kathleen Gazola from the Labor Party. We've got
n Aria Kitten from the COLP. We've got Joe Hersey. Joe,
you were just telling me a moment ago a bit
of an announcement or there was a bit of movement
on a development that was due to happening Catherine.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
Yeah, Katie, there's been a development of a worker's camp
on Lansdowne Road that has got the community a little
bit up in arms with not you know, there wasn't
a lot of accountability and transparency on what was actually
going ahead, and through the residence of Lansdowne Road and
surrounding areas lobbying the Minister.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
I had sent her an email to the Minister as well.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
I heard that this morning at the moment, for the
time being, that is not going to.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Be going ahead, so it's been halted.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
So it's been halted for the time being or I
don't know any more than that at this stage.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, let us know if you get any further detail.
I'm sure the people of Catherine will be keen to
find out any that we're able to get now, Ladies, listeners,
everybody out there tomorrow afternoon, of course, the Matilda's are
going to be playing again. Hell ah absolutely.

Speaker 6 (44:13):
My family's just been screaming at the TV basically so
excited to see Sam take the field and that is
just like the best thing. With the French coming up,
like that's going to be a tough match, but I
think the girls have it in the bag.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
There's a family favorite in my household and that's Mary Fowler,
Young Mary Fowler. My kids just think that she's absolutely awesome.
She's a Cans girl as well, and she wears the gloves,
so we all.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Just think she's amazing. And it's been so wonderful.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I reckon to see the depth of the Australian squad
as well, so everybody sort of knows Sam Kerr knows
that name, but now all of these other incredible female
athletes have become like household names.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
And it's been really good.

Speaker 5 (44:56):
There's been so much sport happening at the moment, but
the two game that I've seen with the Matildas recently
has just been amazing.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
And my daughter has some friends, some people living with
her from Denmark and that they were going out that
night and I'm going I don't know how they came
back probably a bit sad.

Speaker 7 (45:16):
Probably it's been absolutely fantastic And you're right, Katie sam
Kerr is a household name right around the world. But
to see Caitlin Ford and Mary Fowl and the others
being able to step up and shine in their own
they're doing the country proud and we continue to cheer
for them every game and good luck tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Now what do you reckon?

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Is Elbow going to declare a public holiday should they
make it to the finals.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
We had a lot of business people going, oh, wolfy,
this is not good.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
We're going to have to foot the bill for it.
A lot of others that are obviously paid employees. He's going, no,
let's make it happen. So it's a bit of a
mixed bag with just allow people to be a bit
walk in.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
That might just be the nice comprom and you don't
want to jink some matildas. We want them to win
all the way where we don't want to call I.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
Want them to win, but as a previous business owner,
I wouldn't be so pinged. Which holiday which is extremely costly,
But if you want to take the day off.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Good advice. Joe Joe Hersey for the COLP Thanks so
much for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Katie. It's been great to be up here again.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Narri are Kitch for the Labor Party and also the
Minister for various Portfolios.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Thank you for your time this morning.

Speaker 7 (46:27):
Thanks Katie and PADEL members and nine News

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Darwin's Kathleen Gazola, thank you for your time this morning.