The Week That Was – 1st September 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
And in the studio this morning for the COLP, we've
got Billy.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Good morning, Katie, good morning to everybody here, and darn.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good to see you and to be back well his
first time for the week that was the Alps, Joel
Boud and good morning to you, Joel.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
Good morning Cody.

Speaker 5 (00:14):
And they're big tides so I wonder if they'll be
fishermen out Bill, you're.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
Going out, No, not today.

Speaker 5 (00:19):
Today's a big weekend of big tide, so that runs on.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Maybe there's barrow to be caught.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Maybe maybe. And Robin lamblet Leaf of course, the independent
member for hour long. Good to see you, Thank you, Katie.

Speaker 6 (00:31):
It's great to be here, and it's nice to be
here with a virgin this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
First time in here, is not laughing.

Speaker 7 (00:39):
We promised to go easy, we'll go easier.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
He's still not laughing.

Speaker 5 (00:44):
I want to say something, but I'm not sure it
would be palatable for morning.

Speaker 8 (00:48):
Fair enough, and Robin, you know, let's.

Speaker 7 (00:52):
Keep it Virgin. He's a new participant. Participation program is
well seen.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
You many times before, Katy, you know, yeah, but not
for the week.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
That was yet. But you'll be right be right.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Now, let's get into it and I will just start
with well, with a really terrible situation unfortunately that unfolded
at the beginning of the week or on the weekend.
We know that the Osprey crash that did indeed happen
on the Tiwi Islands. The body of three US Marines
killed in that aircraft crash during a military exercise in
on the Tewei Islands have indeed come back to Darwin

(01:25):
and are.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Now on their way home.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
But it has now been revealed as well that the
final actions of the three American Marines may have averted
a catastrophic loss of life, with the Osprey crew heralded
for sacrificing their own lives to save twenty others. So
the families of Captain Eleanor Lebau, Major Tobin Lewis, and
Corporal Spencer Collart have all remembered their loved ones as

(01:48):
heroes following a horror aircraft disaster, of course, on Sunday. Now,
I think it goes without saying that our hearts and
prayers go out to those families, But it was you know,
it is a phenomenal effort that there wasn't more people
taken in that terrible tragedy, and then the response from
Territorians has just been incredible.

Speaker 6 (02:10):
Yeah, it just it's shocking to think that an accident
like that can happen so close to home under such
extraordinary circumstances. And also I was reading in the paper
about the impact on the twe community and how sad
and distress they are. So it's affected so many people,
very very sad.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
And as we've spoken about during the week, Katie, is
it the marine forcer to hear in Darln They're just
not a quick come and go. They're formed part of
our community. They were probably known by lots and lots
of people here in Darwen, active in community groups and
it's absolute tragedy for them, for their families and for
our community.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
But the response, as Robin has said.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
From the Tewe's and the medical people who responded quickly
in the police and of course and then the hospital
and the health professions that stood up here from Darwen
to assiste phenomenal response. But as I suppose to get
more details will come out. We'll probably hear how those
three marines did what they did to say that the
flow twenty marines that.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
We're in the back of that aircraft now.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
That's coming out today, isn't it, Bille, And I think
our thoughts must also go to the one person who's
still in acute cares has gone down to Melbourne and
probably you know, still needing extra special care. But out
of twenty three people on that spray, to have three
fatalities is tragic, but you think it.

Speaker 8 (03:30):
Could have been more. Yeah, been so much when the
response has been phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Heard Landa Taris on the radio the other day just
saying how the Critical Care unit and they continue to
be world leaders that you know, it started back when
the Balley bombing occurred and they've continued to be world leaders.
And it's something that we should be proud of here
in the territory, that the land and his team and
the hospital and you know, I heard the police commissioner
on the radio their response, all the different agencies. It

(03:56):
is great to see everyone band together to respond to
as tragic as that osprey crash.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, and CareFlight as well, you know, all of those
medical professionals, but gee, they do a phenomenal job. And yeah,
hearts go out to everybody involved. But we also know
the Northern Territories defense community will not only that situation
that had unfolded, but also there was seven troops rushed
to hospital after a Bushmaster crash in Darwin as well.
That was just yesterday, I believe it was. It comes

(04:24):
just days after that terrible incident and three Tea Marie
soldiers are in hospital in a stable condition following that
vehicle roll over in Howard Springs. So again, I do
hope that everybody in that incident is able to make
a full recovery and is going to be okay. It's
a it was a rough start to the week, there
is no doubt about that. But we also know that

(04:46):
Parliament did indeed resume this week and that's been.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
An interesting time.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
We know the Country Liberal Party, well, you're push to
give all violent alleged defenders a presumption against bail has
been labeled tough talk. The topic returned to Parliament throughout
the week. We know that obviously the bail legislation was debated,
but we were also in a situation where the petition
for justice for Decklan Lavity was indeed debated as well.

(05:14):
It's been an interesting week and I guess it's been
really sort of safe to say, well, what's been very
evident to me throughout this week is we know that
we're sort of a year out from the next Northern
Territory election, but the approaches from each party when it
comes to how you're planning on dealing with the issue
of crime, and it became really quite glaringly obvious. I

(05:37):
guess throughout the week you've got the COLP sort of
talking tough on crime and saying that you'll take that
tough stance, and then Labour saying that it is going
to sort of take generational change and going for the
more educative and what they have called evidenced based approach.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Well, it's interesting because the bail stuff, as we've been
bringing this before Parliament for two years now, we've been
trying to bring bail reform before the parliament. The community
have been calling out for that bail reform. Part of
Samara Lavity's petition in response to Declan's death was about
a bail reform and we've bought that and we finally
got it up for debate on Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
And it's quite a.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Simple piece of legislation is if you committed violent events,
you start from a position of a presumption against bail.
You have to fight to get bail to be back
out on the street. It's as simple as that, and
it's no more confusing than that. But the way that
Labor went about it on Wednesday night was really quite embarrassing.
That they tried to embarrass Leah during a consideration in

(06:39):
detail in that debate, just the questions that they were
asking and the way they are going about they were
like petulant little kids, some of the members of Labor,
the way they carried on during that discussion in consideration
in detail, and to me, it was probably one of
the lowest points I've seen in the Parliament so I've
been here in three years.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
It was actually really quite embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
But they managed to beat that, and what happened on
Thursday during question time was probably the largest low that
I've seen.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
But we'll talk about that a little bit later, I think, Katie.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
Yeah, it was an interesting week, Katie, And we'll probably
just go back a couple of steps where the petition
was brought to the Parliament.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Robin and I sit on the pac.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
Once a petition comes to Parliament, it then goes to
the Public Accounts Committee.

Speaker 8 (07:20):
Not everyone knows what that is.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
But then it's put up whether it should be debated
in the parliament. It went to pac we put it
to be debated, and yes it was debated. What we
did do was we change the standing orders. So normally
if someone brings a petition and it is debated, it's
debated for sixteen minutes.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yes, we talking extensively about this over the last couple
of weeks because people were riled up. They were thinking
that this discussion was only going to go for sixteen minutes,
and I tell you what, it was not in line
with the community's expectations.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
So what was then done on the government side was
to change standing orders, so suspend standing orders, bring the
debate on and allow for over two hours of debate.

Speaker 8 (07:58):
Every member of the Parliament was allowed to debate the.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Petition and the issue.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
It was two hundred and fifty minutes compared to sixteen
and so that that went through. I know Samara was there.
We debated and it was a really really emotional day.
I know when I got home on Tuesday, I was drained.
I spoke to a lot of my colleagues, they were drained.
It was a really hard day. I spoke to one
of Samara's support persons who was there in the house

(08:26):
with Tomorrow for the day, and she was exhausted. I
can't imagine what Samara was feeling and how physically and
emotionally she was feeling after that, and I could only
only think that she was drained.

Speaker 8 (08:35):
So it was a really interesting week.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
And then, as as Bill said, we progressed into a
further debate around the bail proposal and there was a consideration,
which is the exact opposite, right, Normally it's the government
bringing young legislation and the opposition asking the questions, and
consideration in detail can take a long time.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
I was a.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
Deputy Speaker which presides over that for a period of time,
and I was the first Deputy Speaker to preside over
consideration in detail who took a comfort break wheel going
that long that we all had to stop your comfort breaks.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean, so this was in relation to the amendments.
So just to sort of, you know, I guess, just
to add it out for our listeners because a lot
of these details, the ins and outs, they're going to
want to know, all right, well, what actually happened in
the end, and what happened in the end, is it
got voted down. Now, so the Colp's proposal that the
amendments to the Bail Act.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
To the memments that we put forward to the Bail
which vil defense you would start with the position of
a presumption against getting bail, was effectively voted down.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, and so then as a result of that being
voted down, what you're saying, then, Bill, is that it
got all pretty nasty.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well, then the next day during question time things got
really really ugly because having a bit of a go
with Jared on Wednesday night about being a defense lawyer
and the Chief Minister and Attasher Files and question time
on Thursday just went off tap. She was out of
a gourd really on Thursday and she attacked her for
being a defense lawyer, for getting people bail and that's

(10:09):
just absolute madness, and the way that she went about it.
That was an absolutely new law that I've seen in Parliament.
And if you look at our society, you look at
our legal system. Our legal system is based on the
premise that everybody gets the chance of a good defens
and that's a democracy. If you go down a ravee
where you don't get a defense and the legal system
is one sided, that's called a dictatorship, and I wonder
if that's what Labor really really want.

Speaker 6 (10:31):
It was an interesting week from my perspective. We're all
clearly in campaign mode, particularly the government. The Government spent
question time belittling and lashing out at the cop dragging
up stuff from a decade or ago, which they love
to do. But going back to the point that you

(10:53):
made just then, Katie about evidence space, the government claims
that their approaching crime from an evidence base. From my perspective,
we've had seven years of labor and the evidence is clear.
Crime is out of control and what they've been doing
is it working. This is where they're digging their heels

(11:14):
in and they they're claiming that all their strategies and
their policies, their settings are just right. They're not, and
blind Freddie can tell you that. So what the CELP
tried to do was tweak the Bail Act to trying
to prevent more people being given the presumption of bail,

(11:35):
which is a preventative measure. It stops people from then
going out and reoffending people with a criminal history. To
shut it down and then go on through the process
of Parliament to try to belittle the CLP for attempting
to tighten up the bail laws really was a bit rich,
but look, this is politics. Over the next twelve months,

(11:58):
we're just going to see this battle intensified, particularly between
the opposition and the government, and of course the place
to do it is on the floor of Parliament.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Well, and look, we might get into some of those
different strategies that have been announced shortly, but what I
do just want to focus on for a moment is
that is that discussion and that petition. Now fundamentally, we've
got a situation where twenty six thousand people had signed
that petition. Now ten thousand of those signed that petition

(12:27):
after the Northern Territory government, the Chief Bitister came out
announced her review into bail legislation, So ten thousand extra
people came and signed that after they'd made that change,
or after the government had made that announcement.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
That sort of shows, I suppose, Katie, how the community
felt after that announcement. I think the community expected far
more from government in relation to bail change and bil
reform and what they got was effectively nothing, and the
community was outraged. And from that we've seen that increase
of ten thousand in just space.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Do you think that.

Speaker 6 (13:01):
People are signing that petition not because of specifically they
want changes to the Bail Act. They're signing that petition
because they're bloody fed up about the level of violence
and crime.

Speaker 7 (13:12):
In our community too. That's all it is. Bill.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
You know, if they've distributed the petition more widely to
Central Australia, they would have had another twenty five thousand
signatures added to that list.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Well, you look at the rally that we had in
Al Springs back earlier, in.

Speaker 6 (13:27):
Three thousand people. We've never seen the lights. It was
like it was, it was incredible.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Ten over ten percent of our population showed out for
that rally. If you put that into perspective in Darwin,
that's like having ten or twelve thousand people on the
steps of Parliament House.

Speaker 6 (13:41):
And interestingly, most people didn't really know what the meeting
was called for. It was called to initiate a class action.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Blah.

Speaker 6 (13:50):
People didn't know that they were there because they were
fed up with crime.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Well, look, we might take a very short break and
when we come back, I am keen to discuss some
of those announcements that have been throughout this week around
the reaction or the response. I guess sh'd say two crime,
including the government announcing their knife crime strategy. Well, you
are listening to the week that wasn't in the studio
with us this morning. We've got Robin Lamley, we've got
Joel Bowden, and we've got Bill Yan. Now, it's been

(14:18):
a very interesting week, a busy week indeed, and the
Northern Territory government did release their knife crime.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Reduction strategy earlier in the week.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Now they said that to help inform the strategy, an
analysis of territory knife crime data was undertaken, which showed
knives and edged weapons make up only five percent of
violent crimes and any strategy must focus on violent crimes
holistically nearly half of all knife crime incidents and domestic
and family violence related, they said, as well as that

(14:47):
individuals sleeping rough carry knives for practical purposes and protection
with no intention of offending. They also found that a
preventative health and social response is necessary to reduce knife
violent crime. Now, I interviewed the Attorney General earlier in
the week and asked who exactly was consulted and from
what he had told me, it was various government departments.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I then asked.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
I had also asked, you know why industry wasn't consulted
the likes of the police association, the likes of the
retail associations, for example.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
He said that was going.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
To come and that would be happening, But part of
he said, while the evidence didn't show a need for
further legislative amendments at this stage. The strategy outlined a
range of short and medium term actions, including culturally appropriate
awareness and educational campaigns, including for schools on the dangers
and consequences of carrying a knife, alternative strategies to ensure

(15:45):
people sleeping rough feel safe without the need to carry
a knife, working with industry to develop a uniform practice
for the security of knives to prevent theft, the safety
and de escalation training for retail and hospitality workers, and
the development of a NT police led action plan to
enhance the detection and prevention of knife crime in public places,

(16:08):
as well as the development of a trauma and injury
informed harm reduction framework. Now, the thing that struck me
throughout the interview with the Attorney General earlier in the
week as well is I'd asked, you know, are we
going to see knives behind counters. He couldn't sort of
say yes or no whether that was going to be
the case. I'd asked what kind of funding is attached

(16:31):
to the de escalation training and who was going to
do that de escalation training. I mean, when we look
at retail and hospitality workers here. Obviously hospitality workers are
over eighteen most of the well they are, I think
they have to be legally. But when you look at
these retail like a lot of retail jobs, and we
did speak to the SDA about this as well throughout

(16:51):
the week, is you're talking about like young, really young
people working in those retail jobs. Now de escalation training
I understand and why that's part of this, but look,
it just did not you know, from our listener's perspective,
this just did not hit them up.

Speaker 6 (17:07):
No, And it puts the onus back on to other
people rather than the people carrying the weapon or the knife,
doesn't it. I mean, you know, my family have had
a shop in Alice Springs for more than twenty years.
Our staff are not young. They're older women and equally
as vulnerable. You know, to expect them to do certain training,

(17:32):
more training around protecting themselves from being attacked by someone
with a knife is not really reasonable. I mean, the
government had an opportunity here to take some affirmative action
around the increasing incidents of crime crimes involving knives, and
they chose not to do it.

Speaker 7 (17:52):
Work that out well.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
There have been a number of areas that have been addressed,
and the most easy one to explain on radio is
that there's been wandering introduced.

Speaker 8 (18:01):
Where police now have the powers.

Speaker 5 (18:03):
One, there's fifteen or sixteen areas of high risk which
are within the alcohol legislation, and so there's those areas
you can actually determine a high risk area just by
the police commissioner making a call to say this area,
for instance, let's just says.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
A beach caasure in a beach.

Speaker 5 (18:23):
Yeah, Casurina itself is actually a high risk area already,
I believe. So Caterina Beach, right, there's been an incident
down there, and so police can go there and then
they can wand people and check if there are knives
or other weapons and then confiscate them. So there's been
a couple of things that have been put.

Speaker 8 (18:37):
In the issue that we've gotten in my view is that.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
We have.

Speaker 8 (18:42):
A very pole community. I don't know anyone in prison?

Speaker 4 (18:47):
Now.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
I was at basketball last night and I asked a
guy friend of mine who works at kantaff, I said,
how many of your students would know someone in prison?
He said, Oh, most of them might be their dad,
might be their uncle, might be their prison Well, Cleinian,
and you're here. And so a lot of people are
saying all these things about knife crime and we we

(19:10):
need actually, so how do we look after the kids?

Speaker 8 (19:13):
How do we grow up a community? How do we
get the village to grow a community that means we
don't have knife crime?

Speaker 5 (19:21):
Everything you possibly can, and the strategy is there to escalate.
The strategy is there for extra about a number of
different areas that we are trying, and if we ever
stop trying, then that's going to be the greatest can
I ask you.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
How many victims do you know?

Speaker 4 (19:37):
I know a number of victims.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
I know a number of victims. But that doesn't mean
we don't stop trying and trying and trying.

Speaker 7 (19:43):
Disagrees with that, and you get.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
The department to give us advice.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Nobody minds like everybody thinks, yes you do need the education,
and yes you do need to try and have a
number of facets that you're you know, a number of
areas that you're sort of making changes to try and
make a difference.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
But there needs to be some action.

Speaker 6 (20:01):
Right now messaging we will not accept people carrying weapons, and.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
That's part of it, whether police can then confiscated weapons
or edged weapons. And there's been a change in the
weapons law where now an action in the machete is included.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I went and bought a stuff.

Speaker 5 (20:25):
It was behind it was behind the glass at one
of the big stores, one of the big chains.

Speaker 8 (20:29):
I bought it to go home and use in my garden.

Speaker 5 (20:32):
Now that was secured, and that was a long time
ago now, but there's been a change to those laws.

Speaker 8 (20:37):
Now we're trying, we're working on these, we're getting advice.

Speaker 5 (20:41):
If we all had the answer, if any of us
had the solution, we would have done it already.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
And this is such a hard problem.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
But look, I think the situation you've got now is
you're right in the sense that it's very like, it's
very polarizing situation right now. So you have got people
that really feel like the government's actions that are being
taken and not enough. And you know, the educative process, yes,
that does need to happen. But there also needs to
be something that sort of stems things right now so

(21:09):
that it deters people from taking this, you know, from
taking this kind of really risky action or behavior.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
The lady in Palmerston putting a kid in the kids
held up with a knife to steal a car and
telling you to get the child out so we can
take the car. Just last week in al Spring is
a little supermarket there's a kid in there with what
looks to be a six or seven inch knife, threatening
the staff. And so they're female staff in that shop
threatening them with a knife. In the community expects more

(21:42):
of government around knife crime, and the government really failed
to hit the mark with this knife.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Crime strategy that they released this week.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
So that bill is unacceptable. It is outrageous, right, we
shouldn't have that in our community. We shouldn't have that
in our society.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Unfortunately, and very regularly. That's and that's I think where.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
The communities sort of reached a point where where they're
not only fed up, but they're actually like they're upset,
you know, even with the situation that had happened with
the women who were assaulted on Tuesday afternoon. So I
spoke to Leah Bennett, one of the victims of that assault.
Yesterday morning, she joined us on the show. She works
at Stomp Shoes. She was walking to go and get

(22:22):
in her car to go home and got rolled by
three girls. One of them was eleven years old, allegedly.
You know, this is just not the town that we
all know and love. This is not the kind of
behavior that any of us think is acceptable. We know
that there are a lot of different issues going on,

(22:43):
you know, even the government obviously announcing the DV strategy.
We know that there does need to be further engagement
into education and that kind of thing, no doubt about that.
But there are there also needs to be consequences if
somebody does something like that that it is not No
body in the community thinks that it's acceptable. Nobody thinks
that it's okay, you know, for somebody to be rolled

(23:06):
down the street, whether it's an adult, whether it's a kid,
and we can't just say it's not acceptable. There actually
has to be actions to demonstrate that it's not acceptable.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
Haiti, we hear these motherhood statements from the Chief Minister.
She made them yesterday. Any crime is a crime too
many crime is unacceptable. We've just heard that, Joel, say
the same thing. You've been in government for seven years, Joel.
Your government has failed to adequately respond to crime throughout

(23:36):
that whole entire time, and that's why we are in
the position we are in. We watched crime escalate month
on month, year on year in Alice Springs to the
point where the Prime Minister had to drop in in
January and tell the Chief Minister how to fix things up. Now,
these motherhood statements are all well and good, but they

(23:57):
just don't wash. We need action, less handholding and more
affirmative action around stopping people from carrying weapons and using them.

Speaker 7 (24:08):
Wanding.

Speaker 6 (24:08):
The idea of scanning people and wanding it doesn't It
may prevent some people from carrying a knife, but if
someone out in the sticks is wielding a knife and
using a knife to harm someone, wanding isn't going to
make any difference at all.

Speaker 8 (24:23):
No, that's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
It's not going to make a difference if someone's wielding
a knife and using it. But we also have to
do the preventative elements. We also have to have the
wanding in there. So if there's a suspicion of someone
carrying a knife that you can check that acknowledge and
acknowledging it to everything we possibly can.

Speaker 8 (24:42):
We know, well, we are trying to.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
Feel the time.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
It's my old hometown, I was down there recently, I'm
there all the time. And if we ever stop trying,
then you can smack me around the years, because that's
why I'm in this job.

Speaker 6 (25:01):
That you you've always.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Got a robin.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
You're perfectly balance. You've got to chip on both shoulders.
Now accept my community, the labor goverment. If the labor
government ever stops trying to develop individuals, develop the community,
then you can slap me around the years.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
But if we don't address.

Speaker 6 (25:22):
Seven years ago appropriately responding to will in you to
come around.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
You do both things at once, like can't we do
you know what labor is suggesting and obviously educate and
and do you know do everything that that the labor
governments announced within this within this knife crime strategy, But
can't we also be a bit tougher when it comes
to absolutely you know that the legislative change, so make

(25:48):
sure that there is that consequence.

Speaker 8 (25:50):
There have been changes, and there are consequences.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
And let me just give you a where labor has failed.
They haven't done those two things.

Speaker 5 (25:56):
So the consequences are that we have the highest incarceration
rate in the norm territory anywhere in the Western world.

Speaker 7 (26:01):
Thanks to your government anywhere in the Western world.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
So class and like we've heard this estimates, Bill and
I were estimates for a long time. There's six thousand
people in prison. We're using the watchhouse at the moment
in Darwin.

Speaker 7 (26:17):
That's because there's so much crimes.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Because so there are consequences people who commit crimes, who
break the law.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Go, is that government from making legislative changes. Is that
what's preventing you guys in jail.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
It's trillion in the back of government's mind, that there's
no suppace to put people into standing.

Speaker 8 (26:39):
That is not the reason at all.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
But if not the reason, legislative changes need to have
challenges inside knowledge.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
But legislative changes need to be worked through. But let's
look at the fact. Why are our prisons full. Our
prisons are full because labor has allowed a level of
lawlenessness to treat through our communities over the years, and
all of a sudden, the prisons are full, and they're
more than full. They're overflowing, they're expanding the prison Alice
Springs too. I think put in another eighty eighty beds.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
The thing is, I need scaundy.

Speaker 7 (27:10):
Growth industry in Alice Springs.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
There's another sixty staff to manage that increase and they
can't get staff now. So unless labor It gets smart
about what it's doing it actually reduces crime at the
front end, then you're going to see those issues with
full and overflowing prisons into the future.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
To take our listeners from it, I just want to
take our listeners through the fact that the government also
announced TV strategy earlier in the week. The government say
that they are working hard to create generational change and
safer communities with the launch of Action Plan two as
part of that ten year Domestic, Family and Violence Reduction Framework.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
So this next phase is going to aim well.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
It aims to reform and achieve the framework's long term vision.
So essentially some of those deliverables include establishing an Aboriginal
Leads DFSV Prevention Initiatives Fund, strengthening the response of specialist
services and child victim survivors, expanding domestic and family violence
programs and in prisons, while also providing counseling services to

(28:16):
women in custody and expanding men's behavior change programs in
community settings, as well as strengthening the specialist court in
Alice Springs including additional legal supports. How many of these
programs have we currently got when it comes to domestic
family violence programs in prisons but also prior to somebody
getting into a prison and defending in the first place, like,

(28:40):
have we already got those programs running? And are they successful?

Speaker 7 (28:45):
Very thin on the ground.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
Well, the first program, which is fundamental, right is pre
school is before preschool care, early childcare, So early preschool
school fundamentally, if you can read and write, you are
active democratically, socially, and economically. We have to start at
the front end, which is what Bill said before. We
have to start at the front ends to do prevention. Yes,

(29:09):
there are consequences, as you said, Bill, the prisons are overflown,
so there are consequences.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
We are locking people.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
But unless we do everything, and I think there's twenty
million dollars going to be invested in that strategy too.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
I thought we were still calling for needs based funding.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
We need ten times that amount, right, We need needs
based funding. We need more money to invest in our community,
to invest in education, health's special these other services. Because
if we don't get ten times the amount of money,
we're going to continue.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
The industry us to report about the government that there
was X amount of fundy required to adequately address DV,
and of course the government sort of rejected half of
that report.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
And you talked about the courts.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I think that report recommended three million dollars to support
those court outcomes in all of Springs. Well, I think
they got two hundred and fifty thousand. But I'll talk
about corrections. I suppose if you look at corrections as
a whole, I only speak for Alice.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Nearly half of the.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Offenders in there in therefore DV related matters, that assault matters.
So at the moment, it's about six hundred and eighty
so safely say three hundred and forty.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Now, out of that three hundred and.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Forty, they need DV issues addressed. Government hasn't funded the
program to be able to address that amount of people
and never have. There's a backlog of months and months
and years and years for people to get into those
programs to address DV offending. And because of the short sentences,

(30:30):
they never they could go onto the wait list, they're
released before they even get near a program. So those
programs need to be expanded ex potentially across our correctional services.
If we want to see some change in that DV prison,
it should.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
Be about a couple of things. A deterrent but also rehabilitation.
And when you go into prison or you go into jail,
we've got to have programs and services, and that's been.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Some of the criticism. We don't.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
So you've got people going into prison and the prisons
are so overcrowded and so under staff that there is
not actually those reasons exactly.

Speaker 7 (31:01):
That's what I'm here.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
The prisons are absolutely utterly under resource and that's statement
in fact, and I've seen it first hand over the years.

Speaker 6 (31:07):
Katie the Northern Territory News put out a really interesting
breakdown of domestic violence assaults in Alice Springs since this
government's been in power since twenty sixteen, and what it
shows for Alice Springs is that there has been more
than a thirty percent increase in domestic violence assaults in
Alice Springs over the last seven years. So here we
are again talking about what the government's going to do

(31:30):
about domestic violence. They've been in power for seven years
and they've once again presided over this astronomical increase in
the incidents of domestic and family violence. So even on
that score, this government has failed. So how they can
sit and blindly tell us all that they care and
that they're doing this, that and the other when the
statistics the evidence is very clear, Katie. They love to

(31:52):
talk about evidence, but when you break it down, they
don't acknowledge the evidence, and the evidence is that domestic
violence has never been this bad in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
The Current has highlighted a number of these things in
heath findings during the week on DV and one of
the key things was is that the governor doing short
term funding. So rather than providing five to ten years
of funding for a DV related program, they're only going
for two years with no certainty.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
For the Proceshen you look at the rates of domestic
violence so in the Northern Territory that we do actually
need needspace funding. I mean, we do actually need some
additional help from the federal government here because the rates
that we've got in the territory are like, it's astronomical
for all the wrong question.

Speaker 8 (32:37):
Yes, that that is correct. We do need needs based funding.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
To answer Robin's question, yes, we do acknowledge that it
is a huge issue and we are trying with this
second strategy and trying to invest and build your comment. Look,
when we ask for three million and we only get
two hundred or three hundred thousand, the short for the.

Speaker 9 (32:56):
Report next week to go to Canberra next we can't
go to the federal Here's the issues, here's the astronomical
rates of here's the astronomical rates of incarceration.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Please help fund the Northern.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
Territory because unless we've got the funding, we can't address this.
With workforce shortages, with infrastructure shortage, with the ten.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Being strict about education.

Speaker 6 (33:21):
Listening to the domestic and family violence stand in Parliament
and talk about all the wonderful things she says she's
doing to fight domestic violence, and then she turns it
around quickly and pins it on the former CELP government
going back to twenty sixteen for not doing this, that
and the other. When your government has presided over the

(33:43):
greatest increase in domestic violence assaults in the territory's history
and spiking to an all time high level during the
time that these stronger futures. Alcohol bands were lifted for
that seven month period from July last year to February
this year. I mean, the honesty that comes out of
the government and the spin around what's actually happening is appalling,

(34:05):
and Territorians need to know that they're not being told
the truth by this government.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Look, we are going to have to get ready to
take a very short break, and I will just say, Joel,
there's been a couple of comments about the line if
Labor don't get it right, you can slap me around
the ears. Just a couple of people saying that that,
you know, while we're talking about domestic violence, you know,
not wanting us, you know, to sort of talk.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
About it in that way.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
And I know that you you know, you're not you're
certainly not you know, condoning domestic violence or condoning violence
in any way, shape or form.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
More just I suppose, you.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Know, if we ever stop trying, then then that'll be
the time that you should vote us out. If we
ever stop trying, if you can't trust us to keep trying,
to keep working to try to get to get evidence,
to talk to the department, if we ever stop trying,
if we ever put our head in the sand on

(35:00):
this and say no more, we won't keep working.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
Then that's when you vote a Sam.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Well, look, let's take a very short break. You are
listening to Mix one oh four nine's three p sixty.
It is the week that was. If you've just joined us, well,
there's plenty of people listening this morning, plenty of messages
coming through and we'll get to those a little later.
But in the studio with us, of course, is Bill Yan,
Joel Bowden and Robin Lamley. Now, in a very interesting
story which was being reported this morning by the ABC,

(35:26):
it's been reported that the Northern Territory's Chief Minister, Natasha
Files has faced a motion calling for her expulsion from
Labour's left faction. So the motion comes amid tension within
the Territory labor over environmental issues. And two federal politicians
spoke to the motion at that factional meeting. But as
I understand it, they stood, you know, stood up for

(35:49):
the Chief Minister. So Melanderie McCarthy and indeed Marian Scrimjaw
they attended that meeting as I understand it, and both
of them raised concerns about fracking and the lack of
protection for Water Resources, but ultimately they both spoke against
expelling the Chief Minister from the Left.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Jolie.

Speaker 5 (36:09):
Very interesting, Yes, Katie, and I'm I'm aware of this
report and Matt Garret's got pretty much right. There was
a few disgruntled, grumpy people within the left faction who
wanted to stir up debate, as Matt Garrick has put
it in the report today, because as you know, it's
very difficult to get the Chief Minister to a meeting,
right and so to stir up some debate and to

(36:30):
get the Chief minister, they put up a motion. The
Chief Minister attended a meeting, spoke to the motion. Subsequent meeting, MELANDERI,
McCarthy and Marian Scrims you were there. And then the
mover of that motion withdrew the motion said well, that's
what I was trying to do.

Speaker 8 (36:47):
I wanted to a debate about this.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
This is an emotive issue. I'm very passionate about this.
So I thank you for coming, I thank you for
talking with us. And therefore that was the end of that.

Speaker 6 (36:57):
Crucified Lea for Nookiaro for going through this process probably
around it's revealed the chief ministerians listening.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
Well the Chief Minister to attend a meeting and use.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Factions, Can I just ask so point bigger? Does this
point to a bigger.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Issue though, for for the Northern Territory Labor Party when
it comes to fracking and when it comes to the
development of middle arm Because obviously the Chief Minister did
have her speech that she presented at the National Press
Cup Club where she where she stared down the trolls
and the teals and said, you know, this is what
we are doing and it's a sustainable middle arm precinct.

(37:52):
But it's clear that there are people within the Labor
Party who who do not feel the same.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Well, they're not.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Happy about deep division, certainly within Labor if it's that's
come to the point where they have a faction willing
to throw it, throw out. The Chief Minister over over
a government.

Speaker 5 (38:07):
Says, what I think it spells out is that democracy
is alive and I think it's about we have the
con we have the contest of ideas within the party,
we have factions, and we have even within the faction,
there is a diversion of you. So you can go
to a meeting and you and you're that's your group
and you think, hang on, that person's got a different idea.

(38:28):
You have the debate, You have the argument, and then
we also have a conference which we go to and
have the argument and have the debate, and then when
we leave the room. It's like a football team code.
Once the team has been picked, that team goes out
and busts there the game and play to the game.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
The Chief Minister one Democracy is Alive and.

Speaker 6 (38:56):
Election said that they were against for racking, including the
current Chief Minister and Loam behold in twenty twenty three,
they're fracking the be Toloo basin no wonder, there's a
lot of discontent within the labor ranks around the hypocrisies and.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
The lies of labor cities.

Speaker 6 (39:15):
Absolutely, you were not involved in politics at the time, Joel,
I remember it.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
You tell me when I was and was involved. You
were not.

Speaker 7 (39:23):
You were not a part of the labor chief that ran.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Today you're telling me when I.

Speaker 6 (39:28):
Want hypocrisy around fracking, can I just confirm?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
So the Chief Minister does still have support of the left.

Speaker 8 (39:37):
The Chief miss support of the left and is a member.

Speaker 7 (39:39):
Of the left today she does.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's a little bit evil.

Speaker 8 (39:45):
And Robin, it would be nice. It would be nice
if I was in your shoes.

Speaker 5 (39:49):
You could be an independent and say whatever you want
and not be accountable, but in the party accountable.

Speaker 7 (39:54):
I'm going to do the election between.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
Democracy as we.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Move along, because I do want to talk about about
the fact that a date has now been announced for
the guests and no obviously or for the vote for
the voice to Parliament. So October fourteen is when it's
going to happen. The question for the referendum is going
to be a proposed law to alter the Constitution to
recognize the first peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal

(40:31):
and Torres Strait Islander voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?
And obviously Ossie's or vote yes or no. And I
know everybody's got very differing, you know, very different opinions.
The only thing that I really hope with this discussion,
and we're going to talk further about it after ten o'clock.
We're going to have Richard Fijo and also Helen's secretary
on the show to talk us through you know, their

(40:52):
opinions and yes or no side. I just want it,
I know it. You just want it to be as
respectful as possible.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
It's an invitation. Melanderry McCarthy puts this very succinctly. It's
an invitation to recognize the Indigenous Australians of over sixty
thousand years in our constitution. It's a really simple proposition.
I'll be voting yes. I believe in it, and if
it helps change one life, just one life, I'll be
happy to vote you.

Speaker 6 (41:19):
Why didn't vote yes for the bar laws it went
through Parliament today?

Speaker 4 (41:22):
That could have.

Speaker 5 (41:23):
Changed on the fourteenth of October, Roberts, you can vote yes.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
I think you to take a photo.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
Of it with your post around the referendum, I think
that the Federal Labor government has mismanaged the whole thing
and I think they've given Australians every reason to vote no.
But on balance, I support Aboriginal people, I support Aboriginal
Territorians and I'll be voting yes.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
And every day in Parliament we do an acknowledgment of country.
We acknowledge o Aboriginal people in our parliament every.

Speaker 7 (41:58):
Session before she came that we've been doing that.

Speaker 5 (42:01):
So it's incredible knowledgement of Aboriginal people in our constitution.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Well, have you decided which way you'll be voting.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Not exactly.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Okay, then I'll go to get back to your point
about being respectful and sadly, there's a lot of disrespectful.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Commentary going on about the Voice out there in the community.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
But so I've been out in the Voice talking to
people that I represent, and they're still undecided. There's a
lot of people that are pretty cranky about the way
the yes, sorry, the yes is being rammed down their
throat by certain sectors. They want balance. They will also
want to hear about the other side. So I've been
trying to give what information that I can. So I've

(42:41):
been out there as much as I can listen to
what the people have to say. And what they're saying.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Is is the Voice going to do these things for us?

Speaker 3 (42:48):
And I said, well, they say that they can, and
the people ask me, well how, And I can't give
that information because the federal government haven't been able to
give me that information yet, which is really quite concerning.
So without that information, without.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Them with the constitution, hang on, I'm trying to wrong.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
I'm trying to explain my position and the people I
represents position is that without being able to get that
information and show succinctly how that's going to make a
difference to the people's lives out in the bush. So
I can't support it without that information, and I heap
of people in the bush feel the same way. They're going, well,

(43:28):
everyone's saying all these motherhood statements. The Voice is going
to do this for us. The Voice is going to
do that for us that they're asking how, and nobody
can provide that.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Information to them.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I am going to have to take a really short break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. I can't let the
panel leave this morning without having a quick discussion about
this situation with Quantus. So Quantus has now removed the
expiry dates on five hundred and seventy million dollars worth
of COVID travel credits owed to Australian and international customers

(43:58):
that were issued up until September thirty, twenty twenty one.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Which is due to run out at the end of
the year.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Now, the airline says that customers with COVID credits can
now request a cash refund. This comes as as I
understand it, now, the A triple C is going to
be looking into things. So the Australian Competition and Consumer
Commission alleges that Quantas advertised and sold tickets for thousands
of flights that it had all ready canceled but not

(44:27):
removed from sale.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
There in our world a paid at the moment.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
I've been following this one this week, Katie and Quantas's
reputation has taken a hallary oil a hell of a
hit this week, and the fact that when you look
at quantus petition government to stop Qatar bringing in extra flights,
it's just.

Speaker 7 (44:44):
Absolute man by the federal government.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I might do.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Exactly and you look at how much we're paying for flights.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Robin and I got to come up here on a
regular basis. Alice we used to pay was at three
hundred bucks three hundred and twenty each each way, and
now we're paying over six hundred and fifty bucks.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
We spoke to Daniel Rochford from Tourism Central Australia earlier
in the week and he said that it was it.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Was cheaper for his wife to travel overseas for.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Work than what it was for him, as the head
of Tourism in Central Australia to come to Darwin. It's
like it's obscene the prices that we're paying on flow.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
We need our national carrier to be the national carrier
to well to go and Joyce's moving on very soon.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Rather than the national galgious slate clean and then be
the national carrier.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
Look after their workers, make sure they look after their
workers better, make sure.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
That we get throughout COVID. So they're holding all this money.
They sacked all of those staff, all of those workers
during COVID, and they got government subsidies and now you
still want to give us our money.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Image imagine another business taking money from someone for service
that they're never going to prove that they ended up
being caught for fraudeh.

Speaker 7 (45:53):
Seventeen billion dollar profit.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
I think unbelievable. Anyway, we're going to have to answer.
We are going to have to wrap up. Bill Yann
from the COLP, thanks so much for your time. Ste
Thank you, Joel Bowden, thanks so much for joining us
this morning.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
We'll see you again soon.

Speaker 8 (46:08):
And happy Father's Day for the day.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Absolutely, I'm going.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
To jingly Father's Day breakfast this morning and Oil Primercire lovely.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Thank you for having me. The bacon eggs was.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Sunday and keep us busy. And Robin Lamley, the Independent member.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Friarah Lewin, thank you, thank you all so much for
your time. You are listening to Mix one O four
nine's three sixty