Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And as we just spoke to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member
for Lingiari, about we know that Australians voted and the
Voice referendum was rejected by the majority of voters in
every state after millions of Australians back to no vote,
rejecting that constitutionally enshrined Indigenous Advisory Body now joining us
on the line is one of the prominent No campaigners.
(00:23):
Warren Mundine, Good morning, Warren.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Warren.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What does the result from the weekend say to you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, it's pretty simple. We live in a democracy and
people vote and that they're the people who make the
final decision. And they made it quite clear. But I
think in free areas one is they they have made
it quietly that they don't mind having average entistraate on
(00:57):
the people in the constitution as the first people. Well,
they just rejected the Voice and rejected it really strongly.
And also that everywhere and across the country, no matter
whether they yes or no campaign or voters or whatever,
they want practical outcomes now. They want people to fix
things and of course and part of that process will
(01:21):
be okay, let's look at all the money spend and
make and see that we're having a money spent on
outcomes and getting things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Fixed well, and we see it more here in the
Northern Territory then probably anywhere else in Australia. I would
argue some of the issues that you know, yeah, with
some of the issues that we're dealing with right across
the Northern Territory have been really really.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Tough Warren in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Though for a lot of locals they have felt like
we've been used as a bit of a political football.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I can't answer that question. I I don't know
what it is. You know is that the people have spoken.
We live in a democracy and you know, in some
sense I do see that so that they were used
as a political football. What we've got to do now
is come together as a nation. We saw we saw
(02:17):
the vitriolic attacks and comments that have been made during
the campaign and we need now to and the Prime
Minister needs to show this leadership. You need to come
out and start getting us for reconcile and coming back together.
I want to respect the Yesque people in that you know,
I've been on the loser end of a vote and
(02:39):
I know how it feels, and you put your heart
and soul and beliefs in it, so you know, I
respect that they want to have a rest this week
and that, and I think that's only fair to them.
And then but next Monday, we've really got to start
working together to do the things that we have to
do that to resolve all these issues.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
We need an order all those services or of those
different organizations that are out there that are meant to
be working on closing the gap, and it feels like
they're not.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, look at the money that's been spent. We spend
billions of dollars every year. I go further than an audit.
I run a business. We call it a performance review.
That's about Okay, we've got set targets and set expendites
to be done. What are the outcomes of that. Have
we delivered in the end or have we not delivered?
(03:32):
And then we then we work on that and improve it.
For me, we need to do that. Look at all
these programs, look at all the delivery services. And they're
not only ariginal organizations. There are non aboriginal organizations who
get fund funded for this. And also states and territories.
States and territories are in charge of education, they're in
(03:53):
charge of health, and they're in charge of policing and that,
so they need to be held accountable as well. So
you know, let's do it a less work out. You
know where we've failed and what has to be done
to improve that, and people who do these jobs must
be approved that they've got the outcomes and improving. So
if they're talking about education, then they have to get
(04:15):
kids to school and reading and writing and mathematics and
get it done. You're not doing that, then we need
to defund them and give it the money to someone else.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Laarren, I know that you, like I know that you
keep a close eye on the Northern Territory, as a
lot of Australians have over the last sort of six
months or so, particularly as we've gone into this referendum
and right now in the territory, and I kind of
touched on this before. We're going through a really hard patch.
You know, we have got a lot of crime, we've
got a lot of anti social behavior, we've got a
lot of social issues, but also we've got like you
(04:47):
just touched on issues when it comes to education issues,
when it comes to health in so many different ways.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
But do you.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Feel right now that the Northern Territory government is failing
us in the terr try as well.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Look, I don't want to go too much into the
politics of it all. Look because people have failed for
a very long time, uh you know, and look I
see the statistics getting worser. I see things are getting
bad and that I just find it incredible. You know
that the Northern Territory and they talked about lifting the
bands and the castles did bit card and we knew
(05:26):
it was going to happen, and we saw the results
of what was going to happen. The governments have to
get faired ingom. They have to be focusing on resolving
crime within communities across Australia, and they need to be
focusing on those issues of alcohol and drugs and infrastructure
and a whole wide range of things that happen. But
(05:48):
we must be focusing on outcomes and time frames. You know,
we just cannot go and continue the way we are.
What that vote on the weekend did we say to
thements at state, territory and federal level, do your bloody job.
We want things fixed and we want averagal and entirestata
(06:09):
on the people. They have the same opportunities and the
same outcomes that the rest of Australia wants, and we
want it as done practically.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Now, Look, I absolutely agree with you. We need we
need to sort things out in the Northern Territory at
the moment. We've got a lot of issues. I mean,
we did just speak to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member forore Lingiari,
about remote booths and she reconsenting her electorate. A large
number of those did vote yes. What do you think
(06:40):
that says?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Look, the election has been clear. We have been in
a democratic process and the Northern Territory the majority did
and so we've got to accept that and not go
off in some fantasy trips. We've got to accept and
respect the vote of Australians across this country and in
(07:07):
the Norman Territory. And now that has happened. The reality
is it was a resounding no. So I would respect
it even if it was a resounding is. So this
is what our people have got to do. Respect that
and now get on with the job of fixing the
problems and the issues. But also you know, we need
(07:27):
to move away from victorhood and griefs. We've got to
start looking at the success stories that some Aboriginal title
and the people have done out there, and how do
we duplicate that across Australia through all these communities were
on your.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Last reporters, So over the weekend at press conference?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Did it upset you?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, I've asked in question, just a simple question that
you just asked a few minutes ago about you know,
what were the poll what was individual abooves? Results are?
The reality is that it's about constitution. So it is
a majority of Australians and the majority of states that
actually made that decision. And the majority of states and
(08:08):
the majority of people did that and they made it
quite clear what they thought, and even in the Northern
Territory they made it quite clear what they thought. And
that was around resounding no. People have got to get
into reality. And what made me angry about the media?
I was asking this question, well, what about the suicide
(08:28):
rates out there? What about young kids as young as
nine and ten killing himself? When I was nine in ten,
I was looking forward to a really great life. These
kids now see the only way forward is to commit suicide.
You know, let's get real. You know, let's get real
about the crime, and that's affecting community and it's affecting
Darwin as all Sailor Springs and other places and that
(08:50):
as well. We've got to deal with these issues. And
we've got to get kids to school, you know, we've
got to work with the parents, work with the community
leaders to get kids are school. Because they don't get
to school, they haven't got a good started life. That
it's going to be a tough light and we have
to do. One thing about the Northern Territory is that
we've got to get an expansion of all these opportunities
(09:12):
that are in there, you know, like the gas and
everything else in there that would create money for the
Northern Territory so they don't have to live off the
tip of the Southerners. They can actually have it, have
money like Western Australia and Queensland that is able to
build their communities and make them stronger and better and
give infrastructure and everything in there. And that creates jobs
(09:34):
for all Northern Territory territoriums and it helps businesses and
helps things and that's the way forward.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Warren, what do you make of the There has been
some speculation this morning in the Australian newspaper that Linda
Bernie is well, that there's work to sort of try
and get rid of her, I guess as the Minister
for Indigenous Affairs and put Melanderie McCarthy in of course
the Northern Territory based sent What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, look, we can't we can't look away from you know,
and I don't want to make a person. I don't
want it to play politics. But it has been a
failure on her behalf in regard to what's happening at
the moment and in regard to the vote. But it's
an internal issue for that for the Labor Party government
(10:23):
to sort out and what they're doing, you know they
have it. But I do want to say that our
Senator Melanderry McCarthy, she was when I went through my
dark period. She was one of the few people that
run me up and had a good chat to me
and I respect that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, she is a good person, there is no doubt
about that. I mean, all of our Northern Territory representatives
are and.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You know, married and everyone, and they're really great people.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And that's probably one of the things.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I suppose to Warren that for a lot of people
here in the territory, they were sort of going, well,
hang on a sec We've got some really strong Indigenous
voices here in the territory that when things were really
blowing up earlier in the year in Alice Springs, they
weren't actually being listened to, or it felt like they
weren't being listened to in Canberra. So how would the
Advisory Body make things different and would canber actually listen
(11:15):
to that body?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, well, we saw that voted in the Act. It
was the only place in the country that had a
majority years the camera bubble and near one hundred percent. Right,
you know, people like Marrying Springle Enterprise and Manaderi and
that they've become very strongly out when we had the
(11:37):
problems early this year because of the listening to grog
bands and the cash debit card lifting and that. So
they were strong, but they were silent, and so we
need we need those type of strong representatives and women too.
That they had amazing incredible women Indigenous women and that
(12:02):
and that, and so you know, we need to be
listening to those voices on the ground and get out
of the canber bubble and start doing the job that
we have to do.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, Laurren, before I let you go this morning, I
know that there are a lot of Indigenous Australians this
morning who are feeling pretty upset.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
What do you say to them?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Look, look, I understand your feelings and understand where you're
coming from, because you know, I've been in that position
when we have been through election campaigns and voting campaigns
where you lose and you put your heart and soul
and strong beliefs into it. Uh, And you know you
I understand the hurt that you have and that you
(12:45):
know you asked for us a week of rest and
recovering that, and I think you should take advantage of
that if you are having some mental health issues and
that please please please call your doctors or call you
the Avisual Medical Service or other service and reach out
for that help because it does help, and it's and
(13:06):
helps you undergrade the recovery. And then of course after
all that, you know, have your rest, let's you know,
let's get together next week and let's get things moving, Lawren.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Do you feel as though the vote on the weekend?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I know that again for some people, they are feeling
like it's a rejection of indigenous people and the recognition
for Indigenous people. Do you think that that is the
case or do you think that this is more a
rejection of the way that the federal government handled things.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Oh well, look, there's no doubt that the government. It
was a rejection of the what the government, how it
presented it. Everyone knows that they broke every rule of
how you win a referendum. You know, no referendum has
ever got up without bipartisan support. You know, they just
presented a package to the opposition and said do you
take it or leave it? That's not about bipartisanship. You
(13:59):
have to sit down and work with people and gave
through that journey of what it's about. And of course
you know the idea when the prime is to come
out and call people chicken middles and everything like that.
You don't insult other people. You actually got to take
people on that journey. And they're the two powerful messages
that come out of how you win a referendum. And
(14:20):
they didn't have a constitutional convention. They should have had
that where they brought everyone together and worked together to
make things happen. So there are some things that the
government have to look at and how they went down
this area. But the good news from the voters was
that they sent a clear message to the politicians and
(14:40):
the people in power that they want practical, strong outcomes
that improved the lives of Indigenous people and education and
health and housing and infrastructure and everything else. They want
it fixed, and they want it fixed now. And that
was one of the clear messages that come out of campaign.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Well, Warren Mundine, I really appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for speaking to me and the people
of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
My pleasure and my honor to have me there.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Thanks so much.
And as we just spoke to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member
for Lingiari, about we know that Australians voted and the
Voice referendum was rejected by the majority of voters in
every state after millions of Australians back to no vote,
rejecting that constitutionally enshrined Indigenous Advisory Body now joining us
on the line is one of the prominent No campaigners.
(00:23):
Warren Mundine, Good morning, Warren.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Warren.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What does the result from the weekend say to you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, it's pretty simple. We live in a democracy and
people vote and that they're the people who make the
final decision. And they made it quite clear. But I
think in free areas one is they they have made
it quietly that they don't mind having average entistraate on
(00:57):
the people in the constitution as the first people. Well,
they just rejected the Voice and rejected it really strongly.
And also that everywhere and across the country, no matter
whether they yes or no campaign or voters or whatever,
they want practical outcomes now. They want people to fix
things and of course and part of that process will
(01:21):
be okay, let's look at all the money spend and
make and see that we're having a money spent on
outcomes and getting things.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Fixed well, and we see it more here in the
Northern Territory then probably anywhere else in Australia. I would
argue some of the issues that you know, yeah, with
some of the issues that we're dealing with right across
the Northern Territory have been really really.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Tough Warren in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Though for a lot of locals they have felt like
we've been used as a bit of a political football.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, I can't answer that question. I I don't know
what it is. You know is that the people have spoken.
We live in a democracy and you know, in some
sense I do see that so that they were used
as a political football. What we've got to do now
is come together as a nation. We saw we saw
(02:17):
the vitriolic attacks and comments that have been made during
the campaign and we need now to and the Prime
Minister needs to show this leadership. You need to come
out and start getting us for reconcile and coming back together.
I want to respect the Yesque people in that you know,
I've been on the loser end of a vote and
(02:39):
I know how it feels, and you put your heart
and soul and beliefs in it, so you know, I
respect that they want to have a rest this week
and that, and I think that's only fair to them.
And then but next Monday, we've really got to start
working together to do the things that we have to
do that to resolve all these issues.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Do you reckon?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
We need an order all those services or of those
different organizations that are out there that are meant to
be working on closing the gap, and it feels like
they're not.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, look at the money that's been spent. We spend
billions of dollars every year. I go further than an audit.
I run a business. We call it a performance review.
That's about Okay, we've got set targets and set expendites
to be done. What are the outcomes of that. Have
we delivered in the end or have we not delivered?
(03:32):
And then we then we work on that and improve it.
For me, we need to do that. Look at all
these programs, look at all the delivery services. And they're
not only ariginal organizations. There are non aboriginal organizations who
get fund funded for this. And also states and territories.
States and territories are in charge of education, they're in
(03:53):
charge of health, and they're in charge of policing and that,
so they need to be held accountable as well. So
you know, let's do it a less work out. You
know where we've failed and what has to be done
to improve that, and people who do these jobs must
be approved that they've got the outcomes and improving. So
if they're talking about education, then they have to get
(04:15):
kids to school and reading and writing and mathematics and
get it done. You're not doing that, then we need
to defund them and give it the money to someone else.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Laarren, I know that you, like I know that you
keep a close eye on the Northern Territory, as a
lot of Australians have over the last sort of six
months or so, particularly as we've gone into this referendum
and right now in the territory, and I kind of
touched on this before. We're going through a really hard patch.
You know, we have got a lot of crime, we've
got a lot of anti social behavior, we've got a
lot of social issues, but also we've got like you
(04:47):
just touched on issues when it comes to education issues,
when it comes to health in so many different ways.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
But do you.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Feel right now that the Northern Territory government is failing
us in the terr try as well.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Look, I don't want to go too much into the
politics of it all. Look because people have failed for
a very long time, uh you know, and look I
see the statistics getting worser. I see things are getting
bad and that I just find it incredible. You know
that the Northern Territory and they talked about lifting the
bands and the castles did bit card and we knew
(05:26):
it was going to happen, and we saw the results
of what was going to happen. The governments have to
get faired ingom. They have to be focusing on resolving
crime within communities across Australia, and they need to be
focusing on those issues of alcohol and drugs and infrastructure
and a whole wide range of things that happen. But
(05:48):
we must be focusing on outcomes and time frames. You know,
we just cannot go and continue the way we are.
What that vote on the weekend did we say to
thements at state, territory and federal level, do your bloody job.
We want things fixed and we want averagal and entirestata
(06:09):
on the people. They have the same opportunities and the
same outcomes that the rest of Australia wants, and we
want it as done practically.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Now, Look, I absolutely agree with you. We need we
need to sort things out in the Northern Territory at
the moment. We've got a lot of issues. I mean,
we did just speak to Marian Scrimjaw, the Member forore Lingiari,
about remote booths and she reconsenting her electorate. A large
number of those did vote yes. What do you think
(06:40):
that says?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Look, the election has been clear. We have been in
a democratic process and the Northern Territory the majority did
and so we've got to accept that and not go
off in some fantasy trips. We've got to accept and
respect the vote of Australians across this country and in
(07:07):
the Norman Territory. And now that has happened. The reality
is it was a resounding no. So I would respect
it even if it was a resounding is. So this
is what our people have got to do. Respect that
and now get on with the job of fixing the
problems and the issues. But also you know, we need
(07:27):
to move away from victorhood and griefs. We've got to
start looking at the success stories that some Aboriginal title
and the people have done out there, and how do
we duplicate that across Australia through all these communities were
on your.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Last reporters, So over the weekend at press conference?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
What was it?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Did it upset you?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well, I've asked in question, just a simple question that
you just asked a few minutes ago about you know,
what were the poll what was individual abooves? Results are?
The reality is that it's about constitution. So it is
a majority of Australians and the majority of states that
actually made that decision. And the majority of states and
(08:08):
the majority of people did that and they made it
quite clear what they thought, and even in the Northern
Territory they made it quite clear what they thought. And
that was around resounding no. People have got to get
into reality. And what made me angry about the media?
I was asking this question, well, what about the suicide
(08:28):
rates out there? What about young kids as young as
nine and ten killing himself? When I was nine in ten,
I was looking forward to a really great life. These
kids now see the only way forward is to commit suicide.
You know, let's get real. You know, let's get real
about the crime, and that's affecting community and it's affecting
Darwin as all Sailor Springs and other places and that
(08:50):
as well. We've got to deal with these issues. And
we've got to get kids to school, you know, we've
got to work with the parents, work with the community
leaders to get kids are school. Because they don't get
to school, they haven't got a good started life. That
it's going to be a tough light and we have
to do. One thing about the Northern Territory is that
we've got to get an expansion of all these opportunities
(09:12):
that are in there, you know, like the gas and
everything else in there that would create money for the
Northern Territory so they don't have to live off the
tip of the Southerners. They can actually have it, have
money like Western Australia and Queensland that is able to
build their communities and make them stronger and better and
give infrastructure and everything in there. And that creates jobs
(09:34):
for all Northern Territory territoriums and it helps businesses and
helps things and that's the way forward.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Warren, what do you make of the There has been
some speculation this morning in the Australian newspaper that Linda
Bernie is well, that there's work to sort of try
and get rid of her, I guess as the Minister
for Indigenous Affairs and put Melanderie McCarthy in of course
the Northern Territory based sent What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, look, we can't we can't look away from you know,
and I don't want to make a person. I don't
want it to play politics. But it has been a
failure on her behalf in regard to what's happening at
the moment and in regard to the vote. But it's
an internal issue for that for the Labor Party government
(10:23):
to sort out and what they're doing, you know they
have it. But I do want to say that our
Senator Melanderry McCarthy, she was when I went through my
dark period. She was one of the few people that
run me up and had a good chat to me
and I respect that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, she is a good person, there is no doubt
about that. I mean, all of our Northern Territory representatives
are and.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You know, married and everyone, and they're really great people.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And that's probably one of the things.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I suppose to Warren that for a lot of people
here in the territory, they were sort of going, well,
hang on a sec We've got some really strong Indigenous
voices here in the territory that when things were really
blowing up earlier in the year in Alice Springs, they
weren't actually being listened to, or it felt like they
weren't being listened to in Canberra. So how would the
Advisory Body make things different and would canber actually listen
(11:15):
to that body?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, well, we saw that voted in the Act. It
was the only place in the country that had a
majority years the camera bubble and near one hundred percent. Right,
you know, people like Marrying Springle Enterprise and Manaderi and
that they've become very strongly out when we had the
(11:37):
problems early this year because of the listening to grog
bands and the cash debit card lifting and that. So
they were strong, but they were silent, and so we
need we need those type of strong representatives and women too.
That they had amazing incredible women Indigenous women and that
(12:02):
and that, and so you know, we need to be
listening to those voices on the ground and get out
of the canber bubble and start doing the job that
we have to do.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, Laurren, before I let you go this morning, I
know that there are a lot of Indigenous Australians this
morning who are feeling pretty upset.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
What do you say to them?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Look, look, I understand your feelings and understand where you're
coming from, because you know, I've been in that position
when we have been through election campaigns and voting campaigns
where you lose and you put your heart and soul
and strong beliefs into it. Uh, And you know you
I understand the hurt that you have and that you
(12:45):
know you asked for us a week of rest and
recovering that, and I think you should take advantage of
that if you are having some mental health issues and
that please please please call your doctors or call you
the Avisual Medical Service or other service and reach out
for that help because it does help, and it's and
(13:06):
helps you undergrade the recovery. And then of course after
all that, you know, have your rest, let's you know,
let's get together next week and let's get things moving, Lawren.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Do you feel as though the vote on the weekend?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I know that again for some people, they are feeling
like it's a rejection of indigenous people and the recognition
for Indigenous people. Do you think that that is the
case or do you think that this is more a
rejection of the way that the federal government handled things.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Oh well, look, there's no doubt that the government. It
was a rejection of the what the government, how it
presented it. Everyone knows that they broke every rule of
how you win a referendum. You know, no referendum has
ever got up without bipartisan support. You know, they just
presented a package to the opposition and said do you
take it or leave it? That's not about bipartisanship. You
(13:59):
have to sit down and work with people and gave
through that journey of what it's about. And of course
you know the idea when the prime is to come
out and call people chicken middles and everything like that.
You don't insult other people. You actually got to take
people on that journey. And they're the two powerful messages
that come out of how you win a referendum. And
(14:20):
they didn't have a constitutional convention. They should have had
that where they brought everyone together and worked together to
make things happen. So there are some things that the
government have to look at and how they went down
this area. But the good news from the voters was
that they sent a clear message to the politicians and
(14:40):
the people in power that they want practical, strong outcomes
that improved the lives of Indigenous people and education and
health and housing and infrastructure and everything else. They want
it fixed, and they want it fixed now. And that
was one of the clear messages that come out of campaign.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Well, Warren Mundine, I really appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for speaking to me and the people
of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
My pleasure and my honor to have me there.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Thanks so much.
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