The Week That Was – 27th October 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was, and joining
us in the studio today, we've got the Member for
Catherine for the CLP, Jo.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hersey, Good morning, Katie, and good morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
And then we've got for the Labor Party the Attorney
General of the Northern Territory, Chancey Pai.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Good morning to you.

Speaker 4 (00:15):
Good morning.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
And we've also.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Got from nine News Darwin, Georgie Dickinson, Good morning to.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
You, Georgie.

Speaker 5 (00:21):
Happy Friday.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I love Friday. I love it when you guys areen.
You get to help me do the speaking for.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Three hours, well an hour at least.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I tell you what, it's been a busy week,
but I do just very quickly want to say a
happy world Teacher's Day. We are going to be speaking
more about this after ten o'clock this morning. So many
incredible teachers in the Northern Territory, and.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hats off is the theme, Katie.

Speaker 6 (00:41):
Hats off is to all of the teachers that do
an amazing job of educating our teaching session.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hats off to anyone that can educate and manage thirty
kids in a classroom in an old time Well, I.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Think you know. I mean, as I Joe and I
were talking about this earlier. Not all heroes where capes,
and certainly our teachers are our heroes in the education space,
and particularly in some of those remote locations where you
might only have a one teacher school and the variation
of ages. So absolutely acknowledge and really want to thank
them for the work that they do create great job

(01:18):
across the territory. Job.

Speaker 6 (01:20):
I just want to put a shout out to all
of the teachers in Catherine that nominated for awards.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Good luck.

Speaker 6 (01:27):
There's some amazing people that have been nominated for the awards,
so I wish them all the best this afternoon with
the awards.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Now, it's been an interesting week, there is no doubt
about that. But Chancey, the rumor is a rife that
there's going to be a cabinet reshuffle.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
And that wasn't the Labor government reshuffle that little quaked.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
I didn't even feel that earth And look, Katie, I
know you love a good gossip, but that's all it
is at this stage. Of course, that's the Chief Minister's
prerogative if she chooses to do a cabinet reshuffle, but
look at the moment, we're just getting on with a
job of livering good government out here in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
So we're not going to get off there this morning
and there's going to be a press conference and a
cabinet reshuffle.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Well, Katie, not that I'm aware of.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
If dear me one though, I mean, do you need
to sort of have a bit of a reshaping do
you think before the Northern Territory election.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Well, look, I think that when you look at the
Territory Labor Caucus, those in Cabinet and our local MLAs,
they're all incredibly qualified and outstanding people, really passionate about
the Northern Territory. So I think again that's the progative
of the Chief Minister. And you know, I know that
people in the Territory love a good gossip and that's

(02:37):
all it is at this stage.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, we did speak to Luke Gosling, the Member for Solomon,
earlier in the week and he said there is change
coming within the Northern Territory government. Let's see what comes
up with it. It's not the end of the year
as I understand it. There is change coming and there
is a mood for change.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
There's some new.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Leadership within the Northern Territory team that are really listening
to the community.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
And saying that they expect change.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Well, look, I don't know if i'd rely on Gozo's
crystal ball, but what I will say is the Chief
Minister's been doing a great job difficult circumstances, but you
know she's absolutely committed to it as the whole Labor
team and that's what will continue to do.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
So you reckon it might be a change up of
the leader, No, absolutely not. You just throw a bit
of a.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Spatter of.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
A ten am so stay tuned on your face too.
I'm not convinced now.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Look, as I said, it's all gossip. If the Chief
chooses to do a cabinet reshuffle, that's her prerogative. But
as I've said, and I said again yesterday, we're just
focused on getting on with the delivery of good government
here in the territory Georgie.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
What do you reckon where there's smoke, there's fire, kde.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Well, the CLP is certainly burning, then.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
What do you reckon? Door does say?

Speaker 5 (03:50):
I guess if people are calling for reshuffle, what does
it do before the election? Doesn't show uncertainty within the
Labor government that people do want change or is it?
I guess just a bit of gossip swelling around the
Darwin circles.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, it's hard to know. It is very hard to know.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
But look, I do think that you've got some you
do have some good talent in your back benches. I
guess you know, some might say, well, actually Luke Gosling
and said that he singled out Mark Monahan and Brent
Potter as being good performers and good performing local members.
I guess that's you know, that's up to the constituents
whether they feel as though they are or not. But

(04:28):
is there a bit of an appetite for change or
is it more a matter of having a bit of
a reset and changing the way in which things are
happening to some degree. I know that there's a lot
of and we'll get to this shortly. There is a
lot of concern, you know, within some of the police
numbers in terms of people leaving and that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
As I said, we'll get to that shortly.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
But is there a need for a bit of leadership
change in some of those areas to try and have
that reset before the election?

Speaker 4 (04:54):
Look again, I think when we're talking about this, I
have absolute confidence in every single one of my caucus colleagues,
the Labour Party elected members. Any one of them could
do an outstanding job in any portfolio. We are a
very tight group. We work closely together. Everyone has experienced
to take on any portfolio and I've got full confidence

(05:16):
that the cabinet that are there now are doing a
good job and they'll continue to do that into the future.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, look, let's move into to the police annual report,
because the Northern Territory Police Association does say that it's
deeply concerning. Only fourteen officers have been added to the
Northern Territory Police Force in the past financial year. So
the Northern Territory Police Foreign Emergency Services Annual Report was
tabled in Parliament this week and it's shown one six

(05:41):
hundred and twenty one point three seven full time equivalent
police officers in the nt for twenty twenty two twenty three,
compared with one thy six hundred and seven point five
zero in twenty one to twenty two. Meanwhile, the latest
NTI crime statistics show that year on year to the
thirty first of August twenty twenty three, across the Northern Territory,

(06:04):
assaults increased twenty one point three percent. Domestic violence related
assaults increased twenty five point five nine percent, alcohol related
assaults increased eighteen point zero four percent, Sexual assaults rose
twenty four point eighty six percent. House break ins increased
eighteen point four six percent. Now, you'd have to say

(06:27):
that those numbers actually show that the government's failing and
that we've got some serious issues with leadership when it
comes to you know, those that portfolio.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
I think certainly Katie, let's acknowledge that the document that
was put out by the Northern Touching Police Association did
acknowledge as well that there has been certainly an increase
in the improvement rate of police attrition and certainly there's
a lot of work to be done and continuing to
be done in this space and we're doing that as
a government. You know, the overall police attition rate is

(07:00):
just over nine percent now, which is trending down from
where it has been previously, and there is a review
going in at the moment around how we can support
our frontline officers and make sure that they are supported
better as well as that work that the Police Minister
has been doing with the police around well being and wellness.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
In terms of that review, how long until we can
actually see that because obviously there was one hundred and
seventy five new graduates this year. But they're young. They
haven't got the experience of some of these senior police
officers who are leaving, which is vital for you know,
you don't want to send a young recruit out to
a remote community where he's one of maybe two officers
out there. It's a bit of a shock, I guess
to the system if you have to deal with all

(07:42):
of the levels of crime that are rife in those
remote regional communities.

Speaker 6 (07:47):
And Katie also, you know we've seen crime through the
roof over the last seven years of this labor government
and even as you've said, Nathan finn says just the
other day he said it's fascal that the anti government
express expects police to deal with record levels of crime,
harm and violence right across the territory with just fourteen

(08:07):
additional police officers.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know we're talking about attrition.

Speaker 6 (08:11):
Well, you know there's one hundred and twenty six officers
that have left the force, with an average of twelve
each month.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
The numbers are actually astronomical, but look they're not a
surprise to me, particularly when you look at even towards
the end of last year we were talking about this
with the former President Paul McHugh after the results of
the survey had been released that had shown that police
officers were not only leaving, but they were unhappy in
their jobs. I know that there's been a lot of
work since done since then, and that we have got

(08:40):
a new Police Commissioner, Michael Murphy, and from all accounts,
or certainly from what I am hearing within the force,
is that that change in leadership with the Police Commissioner
has made a difference, that the morale has has been
boosted to some degree. But I do just note in
the Northern Territory News today as well that territorians confidence

(09:00):
in their cops has dropped to its lowest level in
a decade. Is what's being reported, with two fifths of
the population feeling unsafe at night. So that is part
of the annual report showing that perceptions of safety, confidence
in police and their professionalism have all reached record lows.

Speaker 5 (09:20):
I think that also has to do with the number
of triple zero calls that answered. Obviously, if someone's breaking
to your home you're frightened, it's triple zero calls answered
within ten seconds is plummeted to seventy six percent, which
is a drop from eighty percent last year. So I
guess if you're staying on hold, that does place pressure.
We obviously know the police are doing everything they can.
There is so much domestic violence and other situations that

(09:43):
they do have to go to. But if you're sitting
on hold and someone's breaking to your home, and it does.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Make me feel good.

Speaker 6 (09:48):
And Katie, that is what I hear out in the
community when I'm talking to people in Catherine. You know,
we've had the review, you know, maybe the week. We've
got to wait till February for that review. We put
some legislation up. It would have given police more power
to better support each other and keep you know, the

(10:09):
criminals down. It would have dealt with alcohol, alcoholics or alcohol.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Being consumed on the streets.

Speaker 6 (10:18):
But over the last seven years, you know, if I
could just go to the statistics in Catherine, over the
last seven years of the labor government, robbery, extortion and
related offenses seven hundred percent increase in over the last
seven years, house breakings two hundred and ninety six percent increase,
commercial break ins three hundred and fifty percent increase damage

(10:43):
to the property two hundred and six percent. I mean,
I'm hearing this. People send me videos every day of
what they're dealing with. Just yesterday, you know, I got
a video from Venki from the United Service station in Catherine.
It is just unacceptable the length that people are having
to go to to deal with anti social behavior across

(11:04):
the community.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
And people are sick of it. They've had a gut full.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
The number, I mean, the numbers are astonishing and what
people are dealing with is astonishing right across the board.
And I know that government at pains to say that
they are listening, and you know, they're the words that
you hear from the Chief Minister very often that it's
unacceptable and any crime that's committed is is not not acceptable.
We're sort of hearing all the right words, but a

(11:27):
lot in the community are just not feeling like they're
being listened to and like the government really understands. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
Look, and I think Katie, let's just be really clear,
this is absolutely and should never be a bash up
on police because our police here in the Northern Territory
absolutely do an incredible, incredible job. The police, everyone but
the police do it and we need to be clear,
is you know we are doing the work at the moment.
There is a review into policing to assess how our

(11:54):
frontline offices can be better supported. The Northern Territory Police,
Fire and Emergency Services have undertaken an independent review of
its support and wellbeing services and all of those recommendations, Katie,
have been accepted and are being developed and worked through
in those strategies at the moment now, Katie, I think
let's just also be really clear. We know that we

(12:15):
cannot place our way out of some of the antisocial
behavior here in the Northern Territory and that's why we
have to as government invest in areas of reforms such
as what we've done this week by the introduction of
the Domestic and Family Violence legislation, strengthening of the victims
of crime response and streamlining that process.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Are we straw here, what additional are you doing with
the victims of crime?

Speaker 4 (12:39):
So again that's streamlining the processes in which people who
are applying for victims of crime can access and work
through that system.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Is there any additional funding or anything exactly?

Speaker 4 (12:50):
So that's part of the budget cabinet considerations is making
sure that those areas are well resourced. And this builds
on the legislation that we have passed over the last
year around the police wandering, the powers for police wandering,
the pepper spray, the trespassing legislation. All of this goes
to helping our hard working frontline offices, our police, and

(13:13):
our other services to respond to those needs in the community.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Look, I'm going to call it again, you guys saying
all the right things, all the different things that you're doing,
but the community is not feeling it and not believing it.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
When can we see that review?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
Obviously it's I think around March next year was when
they said it might be available, But will there be
a preliminary review in December January to take a look
into what have been the issues that they've found so
far and is any immediate changes we can put into place.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
Look, that is a review that the Minister for Police,
Fire and Emergency Services, Kate Warden, has had commissioned. It's
being done, it's being worked on as we speak, and
that's something certainly that will come back and we'll be
able to flesh that out and look at what those
recommendations are and how we can then put that into
practice to support our line workers.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Look, we are Katie.

Speaker 6 (14:02):
What we do know is that you know, there's been
seven times we put up to do this review. We're
finally getting a review. It's it's fantastic that it's going ahead.
But what we need is not words and empty promises.
Crime has been escalating over the last seven years. People
have had a gutful of it and they want some
action today, not tomorrow, you know, or the next day

(14:26):
or waiting till February. You know, we want people want
action now.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
One thing that I did hear a lot throughout the week,
during during parliament and during question time when questions were
raised about crime. And I get that both sides of
politics are you know, it's the theater of parliament.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I understand that.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
But there was a lot of discussion from the Northern
Territory government and particularly from the Chief Minister saying that
when the CLP raises those issues, that it's talking the
territory down, Chancey, Is that what you think the CLP
is doing when they raise those concerns about crime.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Look, I absolutely acknowledge that there are legitimate concerns from
the territory, from territorians around crime, and antisocial behavior. Absolutely.
What the Chief was making very clear is don't just
come into parliament grandsdwan, throw some mother statements around and
don't back them up. Come in, ask for those seek
those briefings on what government's doing. Bring in those cases.

(15:19):
Don't just raise a situation about a particular individual on
the floor of Parliament. Communicate with us so we can
absolutely ensure that we are providing the resources and that
whether it is a police or a government department, can
respond accordingly to those circumstances.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
So if a territory and raises a concern, or if
they are saying what's happened to them when they've been
a victim of crime, is that talking the territory down.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
What the Chief is saying is don't wait to bring
it into the floor of Parliament, to raise the concern.
The minute any local member across the territory hears of
those concerns, raise them with us and we can absolutely
bring it in.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
I don't think they are waiting though, because I think
constantly you know, I mean, I've tend a lot of
colp presses and same with Labour is constantly talking about
examples and speaking to victims of crime, So I don't
think it necessarily is just waiting to question time to
bring in.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's definitely not waiting.

Speaker 6 (16:09):
I mean I meet with the police regularly and Catherine,
I go to coffee with a cop. I think that's
a great initiative by the police for the community. I've
had briefings with Minister Warden's office and I'm extremely grateful
for that. They're very forthcoming with information. But the fact
of the matter is every single day Territorians are being

(16:30):
affected by crime, whether it be at their home, at
their business, and they are sick to death of the
rhetoric and we are not talking the territory down. We
are actually bringing the concerns of these constituents to the
Parliament to just say listen, this is not good enough.
On a daily basis, people are being you know, victims

(16:53):
of crime. People are scared to go out of their
own home. Some seniors that I've spoken to in Catherine,
you know, people don't want to go to the shopping
center in Catherine. We only have one shopping center, there
is no choice, but people don't want to go there
because of the crime and anti social behavior that's going on.
And so you know, there needs to be police need
more powers to be able to do their job and

(17:15):
better support them out on a day to day basis.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, look, we'll talk more about that in just a
moment's time, but we're going to have to take a
very quick break. You are listening to Mix one O
four nine's three sixty. It is the week that was Well,
it has been an incredibly busy week. It always is
when Parliament sits for two weeks. And if you've just
joined us in the studio this morning, we've got Georgie Dickerson.
We've also got Chancey Paig and we've got Joe Hersey

(17:37):
and well, the Northern Territory Police Association joined us on
the show this week, as did the Chief Minister Natasha
Files in separate interviews of course, and had spoken about
some of the alcohol legislation and the review, well the
draft report that had been tabled last week around alcohol.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Now, the Northern Territory.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Police Association say that they support the return of the
two columns rule making it an offense to drink near
licensed premises, which means that cops then have the power
of course to ask names, etc. To check if people
are on the BDR if there is a warrant for
their arrest or if there is a DVO order, and

(18:16):
a number of you know, like a number of other
concerns that have been raised over the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
But look, the review I think has.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Been really quite an interesting one to look at, and
a lot of people having their say on plenty of
different aspects of it. I do just want to play
a short amount of an interview that I'd done with
Combat Scarlis, the Lord Mayor of Darwin, a little earlier
in the week. If you missed it, take a listen.

Speaker 7 (18:41):
I know the government's got the Transit Elficer, they've got
a housing officers that come under government control and they
have received some form of training for the government to
let us now say that park rangers they're undercoment control.
They have to receive training, but count rageous to do it.
They have received a training that's not the role of
a council ranger counsel Ray role is to supervise the

(19:03):
community to check the place if they are clean and
report back to control animals two years the book you've
used to overstay your parking fee. I don't have any
person with police abilities because that's clearly a situation where
can put a ranger to be confronted by a drug
individual and from there escalate. I'll tell you what make

(19:25):
all patures of the liquor store by card, not by cars,
So you'll stop these people turning up with five hundred
dollars buying ten bottle of bandy and then go and
selling second supply for one hundred dollars. Itach get everybody
to present idea that says where you live and if
you don't live in down when you can't buy it,
limit a supply per day. If you buy more without
any resion, more than one or two bottles, sorry, that's done.

(19:48):
Fix your BDR. So it can tell you who buys
completely huge quantities of alcohol every week which is happening.
And then apply the same standards of alcohol that apply
to communities to people leave their communities and come here
to access alcohol.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
This is five measure. You can do it immediately.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
That was convat Scalis on the show earlier this week.
I mean, that's his suggestions when it comes to two
ways in which we can deal with some of the
alcohol issues that we've gotten the territory. There is no
doubt that there are so many aspects to this and
so many things that people have been concerned with when
it comes to public drinking, particularly now, I do just

(20:23):
want to touch on the two kilometer rule because Chancey,
you and I have spoken about this before. I've spoken
to the Chief Minister about this on numerous occasions, and
the government has been at pains to say that it
is still an offense to drink publicly. But when you
read through that review, it's not all that the police

(20:44):
have the power to do is tip out alcohol.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Yeah, o, Katie, when you're talking about the two kilometer rule, absolutely,
drinking within a two kilometer radius of the licensed premises,
it's not permitted under the law.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
But not permitted und illegal. Pretty different in the sense
that you're just tipping out alcohol.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah. So again, let's just be clear it's not a
criminal offense to do so because of no no, no,
let's just hear it out, because of decades of evidence,
including a Royal commission into deaths in custody.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Now, you absolutely you didn't say that last time you
were on the Shady You say that last time you're
on the show. So you guys have been dishonest with
territorians about this.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Not at all. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. When it comes to
the two kilometer rule, drinking within a two kilometer radius
of a licensed premises is still not permitted under the law.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
But it's not so you've just said it yourself. It's
been decriminalized. And that was the first that i'd heard
of it this week in Parliament when I was listening
and I heard the Chief biness to say that it
had been decriminalized because of the Royal Commission into Indigenous
Deaths in custody. Now, I think if the government had
have been upfront and said that right from the get go,
people may have felt a little bit differently.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Right now, But you guys weren't.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
It was where and tear at Howard Springs all over
again when we were being told one thing and it
actually meant something else.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
So under Section forty seven of the Summary Offenses is
disorderly conduct which can enable a whole range of measures
to be enacted to respond to those situations.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
And I think the Member for Barkley pointed that out
in Parliament very well this week to the Member for
Fanny Bay that the police all they can do is
ask to tip out the alcohol.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
They can't ask their name.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
You know, they can't find out if they've potentially got
any domestic violence or going on, and you know that
it's disingenuous for the government to come out and say
that it is an offense.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's I think what I found most disappointing is that
you know, that's exactly right. It was disingenuous, and you know,
people were taking the comments from the government on face
value again that it was illegal to be drinking in public.
Everybody can see you're drinking in public and it's able
to happen.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yeah, but again, Section forty seven of the Summary Offenses
is disorderly conduct. If you're found to reach one of those,
that can end up being fine.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
But drinking in publics no worries. So you can sit
and drink in public, so long as you're not doing
something disorderly.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
Again, if you are drinking something public within a two
colmeorators of your alcohol can be poured out.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, so again you've just started again, so your alcohol
can be bought out if you are drinking within the
two kilometers of a license premises, that's very different to
disorderly conducts. So what so you're puching those two things together.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
I think everyone needs to just pause from it and
have a look at what disorderly conduct is the whole
range of power to the police to be able.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
So if you're sitting and drinking in public at that
point in time, the police do not have the ability
to disperse a situation before it gets disorientates.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Again, the police have the power to pour out the alcohol.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
But not to check a license or not to check
whether there's a warrant for somebody's a rest or not
to check if there's a DV issue or anything like
that before it gets disorderly.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Again, that's correct, that is not.

Speaker 6 (24:08):
Remember the Barkley stated that extreme b says something doesn't
mean it's real.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
But you've just said it yourself because you said within
the two kilometers that that you you know that they're
able to tip out the alcohol. But if they're doing
something disorderly, that's when they can then be checked.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Their license can be checked, or they can be a rested.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
And they move.

Speaker 5 (24:33):
If you're sitting at nightcliff two kilometers within the two
kilometor of the beach front and having a wine there
at Nightcliff, then can you tip out your alcohol?

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well, some locations I think it's okaut like it is
there within the you know, like they're ruled out or
there you're able to go and have a wine, like
people are able to go and have a beer, have
a wine, have a drink whatever. But then I'm assuming
chancy and correct me if I'm wrong that then if
it's you know, things get disordered if it's not one
of those idea is like the Esplanade for example, you're

(25:02):
not actually able to go and drink there, and like
you said, within those two kilometers you're not supposed to.
But I think this is the point of contention for
a lot of people, is that what we're then seeing
is that people are drinking. And look, if people are
having a drink and behaving themselves, I don't care where
you're from, if everybody's behaving, But then what we are
seeing is behavior escalate to that disorderly level and the

(25:28):
police aren't in a situation where they can potentially stop
that before it starts.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
So do that license check.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
And that's what the police had asked for, is my
understanding throughout the review which was tabled the week before last.
So is that something that the government will now consider.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
Look the review, is there the chief Minister tabled it
last week. Certainly working through it again. They have their
power to pour out the alcohol and they have the
ability to do a move on direction. Now the Chief
has tabled that. We're working obviously through through that review
and certainly the Chief is absolutely committed to the areas

(26:06):
of alcohol reform and she continues to do that work
and she'll continue to do that peace well into the future.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
I think it is just be clearer as to you know,
if people are seeing in a public place having a wine,
they need to make it clear that they're not going
to be approached by the police. I mean, if they're
being disorderly, of course that's fair enough, disperse and move
them on. But if people are just sitting there, I
think it needs to be point blank as to what
police are allowed to and not allowed to do.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Also, can the police, you know, in terms of them
being able to license check somebody like if they are
drinking publicly, can that is that also an option for
them to be able to check whether somebody's on the BDR.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Well, look again, that review has been done, it's working through.
I absolutely acknowledge that you should absolutely be able to
have a drink and enjoy it absolutely and where there
are places where they are doing it within the two
kilometer radius and the police have their ability to pour
out the alcohol, they have the ability to do a
move on.

Speaker 6 (27:04):
Direction, but they don't have the ability to ask their name.
I can't any other information about them to potentially, you know,
if something escalates or the people might have DeVos or
whatever against each other and they're drinking, which will escalate
causing more harm.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
So that's where prevention of that needs to happen.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yeah, and look like I totally agree.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I think that those discussions absolutely need to be had
and need to be really clear. I do want to
just touch on though, one of the things that conbat
Scarlets had spoken about and it was part of the
review as well, whether we go to restrictions similar to
what we're seen during COVID where people have to show
their license and have to be able to demonstrate where
they're going to be drinking if they go into a

(27:52):
bottle shop to.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Get takeaway alcohol.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I know that it could prove difficult in a number
of different ways, but is that something that we go
back to looking at The Chief Minister didn't rule it
out the other day.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
But Katie also with that. Sorry, chance, you're right with that.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
We do that in Catherine, now, yeah, pretty much in
our springs they do that Intenant Creek.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
They do in Darlotte.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Oh look, if Joe and I want to go and
have a charge together and we entered the bottle, we'd
have to in a tenant. Oh, Katherine, we.

Speaker 6 (28:18):
Have to show your license and you have to say
where you're drinking about alcohol.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
You cannot say I'm going to drinking in the.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Case everywhere else? Should that be the case in Darlatte.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
Well, look, I think that they are conversations that can occur.
I mean acknowledging that the territory and territorians are not homogeneous.
In different places of the territory do need at times
different restrictions or different requirements or different programs. But you know,
I think that we've lived in Alice with that for
some time, and as people in remember a time.

Speaker 6 (28:49):
When I haven't lived like that where you show your license,
it's obviously a very long time ago.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
One of the other things concerned though.

Speaker 6 (28:56):
Katie is talking about you know, con was talking about
it as well, about security officers or his counsel people
asking people to tip out alcohol that's that is not
acceptable and those people do not have the power to
ask the people to move on or anything, and that
could escalate in you know, some kind of verbal disagreement

(29:21):
or assault or something like that that those people are not,
you know.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Not qualified in some way the police.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
The by laws local government had on here, the by
laws actually allow that particular council to detain. So all
con would need to do is ask for the appropriate training.

Speaker 7 (29:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Right, So you're saying that he should do that or
that they that those councils should be able to do that.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
They could if they had the appropriate training. Councils have
the ability for by laws to be in place for
their area across the territory and how they enact those.
So that's certainly something that if they wanted to certainly
progress and work through that they absolutely could.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
It doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like either the
Darwin City Council or the Palmerston Council. I spoke to
Athena pasco Bell throughout the week as well. It doesn't
sound like either of them are key and that's okay.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
They don't have to.

Speaker 4 (30:12):
But under the Local Government Act and the by laws,
there is the ability. Should a council wish to do that,
that's what they could do.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Just while we're on this topic, I do know that
i'd spoken to the Minister for Police and Territory Families,
Kate Warden a few weeks ago about filming which is
taking place or had taken place as I understand it,
for four Corners now.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
There had been some discussion.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I'd sort of heard in the background that there was
going to be an episode go to air.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
I don't know if it has potentially about security guards
and the Northern Territory government's use of security guards in
terms of some of the issues that we've got around
the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Have you heard much about it?

Speaker 5 (30:53):
Only will Err on Monday, But it was the questions
that we heard. The journalist asked the Chief Minister was
around you know, aggressive behavior from these security guards and
alleged CCTV that showed you know, some being man handled
by the security guard. So I haven't personally seen the vision,
but I think it might probably have something to do
with the landmark situation that happened months and months ago,
which is kind of separate to the security guards.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Etzally understand it, but now we do know as well.
According to the Northern Territory News today that the Northern
Territory Government's complained to the ABC chief over allegations at
Four Corners crews well that a four Corners crew has
breached their ethical journalism standards and jeopardizing community safety while
filming in the top end. That is according to a
series of letters seen by the Northern Territory News. So

(31:40):
the ABC labeled those claims offensive, unsubstantiated and defamatory, saying
that offers to talk directly with the government representatives about
their concerns had been ignored.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Chancey, what do you know of this situation?

Speaker 1 (31:54):
And I mean, I guess I'm just jumping on the
back of the alcohol that discussion about alcohol and officials
being able to tip.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Out alcohol and weather.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
You know that luck whether it could land the government
in further issue.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Look, I think when we talk about private security, and
private security has been contracted by the Northern Territory government
for the last fifteen twenty years, regardless of what political
party has been in private security has been engaged at
times to patrol and traffic different areas of CBDs right
across the territory and they've done a good job and

(32:30):
they'll continue to do a good job into the future.
That's acknowledging the role that they do. In regards to
the Four Corners program that I think Georgie just said
it's airing next week. I haven't seen any footage in
relation to that, and I again haven't been made aware
of those accusations. I know that some of my cabinet

(32:50):
colleagues may have been aware of that, And in relation
to those allegations of bribery or what is being put forward,
that's a matter that would be dealt with accordingly.

Speaker 7 (33:02):
Well.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
The Minister had said to me on that she understood
that they were alleged to be creating hostile and aggressive situations,
and you know they're creating those. I mean, it's a
pretty big call, I guess from the Minister to say
that none of us are going to know exactly what
this is going to look like until we see the
show go to air.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
But it is a big call.

Speaker 7 (33:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
Look, I think once it does go to air, I
think territorians who live here and know how the territory
works will have a greater understanding and be able to
actually know for sure what it is and if they
are substantiated well.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
I think also Katie, it goes to a bigger issue
that the government is paying security firms to do the
job of police and that is not you know, that's
not their job. That the money needs to be spent
on the police so that we can get more police
out there to better support them and better support the community.
We don't need to be paying security firms millions of

(34:00):
dollars to go and do the role of the police.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
We can't get enough police.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
Isn't a good buffer in the meantime just for that
kind of patrolling and a presence in the police in
the CBD sorry to kind of deter people from conducting
that behavior if they can see of security presence coming along,
and I.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Would say yes, I would say that year at least
there is that buffer.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
We have recruited in twenty twenty two to twenty three
one hundred and ninety new members to the police force.
There's currently forty recruits in training. The member for Catherine
is being gammoned because under the COLP they still had
private security guards engaged working through CBDs across the territory.
This is not a new phenomenon. This is something that

(34:43):
has been in continuation for about twenty years in the
territory and I agree with Georgie. I think having people
in CBDs, even if they're not police, if they're private security,
if they're youth engagement out of each officers that foot traffic,
that policing, that enables us to respond and to be
advising our hard working police. When there is an issue

(35:05):
that looks like it is occurring, or there is activity
that looks like it's going to escalate, we can then
straight away get in there and respond to it.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Look we might tax Katie.

Speaker 6 (35:14):
According to Nathan Finn, who's the president of the Police Association,
we actually only have fourteen additional police officers so chance
you can quote the numbers there of how many have
gone through, but we actually on the ground only have
an extra fourteen.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
That's the bottom line.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
We are going to have to take a quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. I've said it a
few times this morning, but it's always an interesting week
when Parliament has sat, particularly for two weeks. But there
has been you know, amongst uh the RGI Bargie and
you know, the bit of the bit of mud slinging
that we see at questions. Would there has indeed been legislation, Yeah,

(35:57):
there has indeed been legislation passed and also introduced to parliament. Now,
one of the pieces of legislation that did pass was
changes to the way that the Independent Commissioner against Corruption operates.
So the ikak Amendment Bill passed during Tuesday's parliamentary sittings.
It put in place new protections for journalists to maintain
a source's identity and barring the watchdog from investigating some

(36:19):
minor misconduct. I know that there were questions raised about
whether there could potentially be a conflict of interest if
any member of Parliament was potentially being investigated while then
voting on that piece of legislation, But.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
It went ahead nonetheless, and I.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Know the government had said that, you know, as far
as they know, nobody's being investigated, so it was nothing
to see here. But that was a concern that Robin
Lamley had raised, as did Mark Turner. But that legislation's passed.
Isn't a watering down of the IKAK No.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Look, I think certainly it has been a busy two
weeks for all of us and Joe and I are
probably the people who looked the most high in here
today because it's been a big week of lots of
lots of debate. Yeah, I know, look at you. But
certainly we've had you know, the Ikke legislation, We've had
the education bill, we've had the Architects Bill, they've all
passed over the last two weeks, and we've introduced a

(37:13):
whole heat which we can talk about in a moment.
But certainly the Icack Bill was again based on an
important review that was taken place to look at where
we could streamline and strengthen and afford those protections to
people around going to the IKAK. So certainly really happy
to be part of the government that introduced the IQAQ

(37:33):
back in our first term of government. And certainly this
is making sure and Katie, I'm a big believer that
all legislation should be regularly reviewed and contemporized to keep
in line with the best practice standards.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Now, Georgie, did you did you get much of the
IKAK discussion. Did you think it all seems pretty pretty straightforward.

Speaker 5 (37:55):
I was a bit confused at the start as to
who could you remain anonymous into of the disclosure of
the person being investigated. But as I understand and correct
me if I'm wrong, you know, it's to kind of
protect those lower public servants who might be you know,
working for ministers and things like that if they're being
investigated and obviously if something is found to be corrupt

(38:15):
or untoward, then their identity can be released.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Is that look again, importantly, it increases the reporting and
protections for whistleblowers and witnesses and strengthens the journalists shield law,
which are really important. And that was it's the thing
to I think Georgia Megical points, it's that territories feel
comfortable in the IK being able to do its job

(38:38):
and to investigate those serious concerns and breaches.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Particularly if you're a whistleblower.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
I think, oh yeah, you incredibly important. So I mean
that was a bill that did come in for debate.
I think the hard thing with these bills as well
as is acknowledging that as it has been stated, and
the Chief Chief has spoken arliment and clarified a number
of concerns that the Member for Ara Lewin had, But

(39:04):
there is those certain things that when you are under
investigation in accordance with the IKAKE. You're not able to
actually disclose whether you are or not because you're served
with those notices. So again it's important, it's really strengthening
those responses. But it's also I'm very comfortable with territorians
having the confidence that serious breaches and misconducts or alleged

(39:25):
will go to the IKAK be dealt with, and that
whistleblowers are afforded the adequate protections and those journalists shield
laws are upheld.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, look, I don't disagree with you. I think that
they are certainly needed and we do need to make
sure that those laws are strong. I guess the point
that Robin Lamley was making though, is if somebody were
being investigated and then the legislation that you're voting on
could potentially you know, he's changed, like he's changing the
legislation and somebody's being investigated by that very eyecac.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Is that a conflict of interest? And should it have
been delayed?

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Well, you know, I think the bill was extensively out
for consultation, and it was a bill to really ensure
that the IKAK has the sufficient powers in line with
those modern best practice standards and the public expectations of
what the IKA can and should do.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Now, just moving along to some of the other legislation
that was introduced, that domestic Violence bill, as you've just
touched on. Now, we hear so often in this studio
and right around the Northern Territory the absolute scourge that
domestic violence is in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
It is horrendous, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I mean, I think we all understand just how terrible
this issue is. But this legislation introduced by you, Chancey,
and some proposals, or certainly some of those changes include
clearer and stronger powers for police and courts, broader definitions
of domestic violence and domestic and family relationships, increased accountability

(40:56):
for domestic and family violence offenders, stronger provisions to consider
the same in wellbeing of children, measures to address coheresive
control in alignment with national principles, and improved access to
information sharing practices in the justice system. I guess the
big concern here is do we have the money to
be able to fulfill these commitments.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
Yeah, Look, I think where we are is I am
really really incredibly proud of where we've ended up with
the bill. We've did extensive consultation. In total, we went
out for about twenty four weeks, so we did two
rounds of twelve week consultations. One of those was including
the draft Exposure Bill. So this is a bill Katie

(41:36):
that has been consulted with and input has been by
the sector on how to best respond to domestic and
family violence here in the territory. Now there's a few
parts to this Katie. One, the bill itself provides us
with a legal framework within the law of how we
can better respond and do those there's the systems piece
which Minister Kate Warden is working through around program and

(42:01):
responding and then certainly no denying that what is needed
in the Northern Territory to respond to this is needs
based funding and that's something that we have heard loud
and clear from the sector, from the community, and there's
certainly something that we're taking to the Commonwealth because how
we get funded at the moment federally is based on population,

(42:22):
not based on need.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
And yet is it like, is there does it look
as though the federal government's going to come to the
table here because you know, I've heard from the government
talking so much about that needs based funding, but it
doesn't seem as though there's much movement from the federal government.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
We're not going to let this go. We're absolutely going
to absolutely continue to knock and harass the Commonwealth for this.
We have heard already people giving evidence in those coronial
inquests talking about how needs based funding could shape the
future of the Northern Territory in a much better way.
What we need is needs based funding because we need

(42:59):
to give continuing to invest in the crisis, and that's
our hardworking, fantastic women shelters, but we also need to
be doing the prevention end. So this legislation, what we've
got is fantastic, it's strong, it absolutely goes to addressing
a number of areas. We do need to continue to
advocate and lobby for the funding from the Commonwealth.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
Speaking to the women, our top end women legal service.
Obviously in the review it stated, you know, almost two
hundred million dollars is needed and around six hundred million
I think it was a year is spent on domestic
violence and obviously the funding is well short of that.
Does the government, the territory government need to be investing
more into that so that you know, obviously it is
funding that's going to help solve these problem and bills

(43:40):
are great, but it needs that funding to back it
so that people and women can have this accessibility to
those services.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Yeah, look again absolutely acknowledging the process in which we work.
Certainly those are considerations that we will take as we
go back into our budget cabinet processes and work that
through continuing to talk to the Commonwealth and certainly working
with Marian Scrimmager, Luke Gosling and Mullenderry McCarthy to ensure
that they are continuing to advocate with their government at

(44:10):
a federal level for needs based funding in the territory
is important because no one is going to let this
one go.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Look, we are going to have to go.

Speaker 6 (44:17):
Sorry, Katie, I was just going to say, you know,
any form of abuse is totally unacceptable. And we have
seen the domestic violence right through the territory.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
You know the.

Speaker 6 (44:30):
Results in the latest the police results Darwin nine, Palmeston
one hundred percent up, Alice Springs ninety seven percent. Catherine
is one hundred and forty six percent increase in domestic violence.
And I know when I speak to police on the
ground in Alice in Catherine. Sorry, that is a concern
that they you know, deal with on a regular basis.

(44:53):
The amount of calls that they go to on a
daily basis is unacceptable, and you know it'll tie back
into the alcohol and you know, dealing with the issues,
the primary issues and.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Not just putting band aids on things.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Looks we are going to have to head to a
quick break. We're very fast, running out of time. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
Well that is it for us this morning. In the
studio with us today, we've had Joe Hersey. Thank you
Joe so much for your time.

Speaker 6 (45:23):
Thanks Katie, and thanks listeners. I've got a busy day ahead.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Oh well, good to have you in the studio on
Chancey Pig, thank you so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Oh Katie, thank you, Thank you listeners, and just again
a big shout out to every teacher across the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Have you well teacher today.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Thanks Georgie Dickerson, thank you so much for your time
this morning.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
I hope you all have a great weekend.