Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's been an incredibly busy start to the year four Corrections.
As we know. Last month, Alice Springs Correctional officers suffered
minor injuries and two prisoners were taken to hospital after
what was described as a riot in a maximum security facility.
At the time, Corrections said no officers were significantly injured
during that incident that involved around twenty seven prisoners. Meanwhile,
(00:23):
prisoners were reportedly busted hiding in the ceiling during a
foiled attempt to escape the Alice Springs Correction Center on
Boxing Day. Now. The United Workers Union said at the
time that sixteen prisoners attempted to escape from Alice Springs
Correctional Center. Joining me in the studio to talk more
about how things are tracking is the Northern Territory Corrections
(00:43):
Commissioner Matthew Varley. Good morning to you. Good morning, Katie, Commissioner.
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I appreciate
you joining us in the studio. Now, how have things
been tracking since the highly publicized incidents. I guess right
at the end of last year early this year.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, kay, there's no doubt we've had our hands full
literally this year, and a busy start to the year.
We're working hard on the ground every day and our
officers are doing a fabulous job, no doubt. We've had
those issues early in the year in our springs that
you've just described, but our prisons are under pressure, but
our officers are doing a fine job. We had those
(01:18):
incidents that occurred, as you say, a couple of months,
a couple of weeks ago. We're working hard to understand
what occurred there. Our intelligence and security folk constantly review
the safety and security of those prisons. They do a
cracking job, and investigations underway in relation to that incident.
But you know, our officers did what they do best
and they respond to that emergency. They quelled it within
(01:40):
about an hour, and from that, you know, further actions follow.
Of course, we refer matters to police, but also there
are immediate disciplinary sanctions under our system for those prisoners involved.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah right, So do you suspect that there could be
any charges.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Late, Well, we gather evidence, obviously, we look at statements
from officers, WI CCTV footage to police. Now the charges
and the investigation isn't matter for them, no doubt. They've
got their hands full too with plenty of other things.
But you know, there's a I guess a parallel process
that occurs, Katie, and that is we have a misconducts
and disciplinary system in the prison. Officers can put prisoners
(02:18):
on what we call intensive management plans that restricts certain
privileges that they have in the system, and then they
can also be put before a disciplinary tribunal if you like,
in the prison system. That's quite separate to any other
action police might take.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well and needed, I would suspect, because you want to
make sure as well, when you have got prisoners in
your care, that they understand that there's rules and regulations
in place, and that if they're not adhering to them,
that there's going to be consequences to that action.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean it wouldn't surprise most people listening, Katie, that
a lot of people don't like being in prison, right
and our job is to make sure that we treat
them fairly and squarely. But there are rules and there
are consequences, and our officers enforce the safety and security
of those blocks every day.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
From time to time, no doubt, things can bubble up
and tensions flair, and our officers respond accordingly.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
But you know. That's why we're constantly.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Reviewing our emergency and safety and security procedures. We're looking
at our upgrading equipment and training. And that's why I
commissioned that immediate security review into G Block in Alice Springs,
you know, because there are infrastructure improvements we potentially can
make to make sure these things are better.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So where's that review at? Has there been any sort
of outcomes that you've been able to act upon?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So we have immediately made some adjustments to locks and
doors in Alice Springs, and obviously welding repairs are made
to the breaches that occurred, and those dorms are back
in action. But we had the very week that that
incident occurred, I asked for specialist engineers and architects to
come to Alice Springs.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I met them there.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We walked through G Block for hours, and they've taken
a tape measure to the place, and we are waiting
on a specialist engineering report to come through to Dipple
and from that, I'll be putting recommendations to government for upgrades. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right, so there will be some upgrades. I mean, I
guess too early to tell how much that might cost
or how long it might take.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, I anticipate that it will be a sizable works program,
but obviously I've got to take those options to the
Minister and to government. I have been briefed on some
of the preliminary findings. And let's remember, Katie, that this
is a prison that was built in the nineteen nineties, right,
So yes, there's always improvements in not only building standards
and infrastructure, but technology and best practice around custodial lops
(04:36):
around the country that we look at, and that's why
I brought those specialist engineers in. But you know, I
think there's a lot of improvements we can make in
our springs and those are the conversations I'm having with
government at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And so at this point in time, where are those
plans out there at the conversations part?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
No? No. I expect to receive.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
The report from Dipple and the engineers this month, and
then obviously from that, I'll meet with my folk and
our specialists and we'll work out what are the best
options to put forward to government. But I anticipate that
I'll be able to take a package of submissions to government,
you know, in the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And so how soon could that work get underway.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, obviously you've got to work through the design works
if there are immediate things that we can do. And
I might add also, Katie, we've got stuff already in
training Alice Springs. You know, we've had design works underway
for improvements to offices posts down there. We've had we've
got plans to upgrade the front gatehouse entry to make
(05:35):
sure that's better, modern, safe, secure, and we're already working
on some plans to provide refurbishment to some blocks. So
I anticipate that some of those works can commence, you know,
from this financial year coming. But you know, we've also
got those modular constructions online coming in Alice Springs and
(05:56):
they're being delivered as we speak.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Okay, so how soon are they going to be and running?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I hope they'll be online KDI by midyear. I'm targeting
June July. And that's a ninety six bed brand new
medium rated security facility. So these and I want to
go on the record here and say these are not
dongas I've heard that word used quite a bit. These
are specialized prison cells manufactured by New South Wales Corrections.
(06:23):
They've been successfully rolled out across that state and that's
what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, we actually ended up catching up with New South
Wales Corrections and speaking about it, and it sounds like
a really good program, you know. It sounds like a
great thing to be engaging those prisoners in New South
Wales to do that work. And from what he'd said,
these have been operational in New South Wales as well
at different facilities for quite some time, or a similar
sort of you know, a similar sort of building, So
it does sound like it's a good thing, Commissioner, I
(06:47):
do want to ask, I mean, the way in which
the other Springs facility is right now, is it safe
for staff, correction staff and for prisoners.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It is as safe and secure as we make prisons
every day, Katie and I meet with the unions, I
meet with our staff. I talked to our managers all
the time I was down there, I think maybe ten
twelve days ago, and I'm going down again next week.
The safety and security of our facilities is my job,
it's the job of our senior folk. And I met
with the unions only last week, and I'm meeting with
(07:18):
more of our union reps again next week. So we're
listening We're working hard, and I take the safety and
security of those prisons very seriously and the staff as
my number one priority. But where there are ways we
can improve our tactics, our tools, our technology, that's my
job and that's what we're doing now.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Talk me through the prison numbers at the moment. Just
how full are our facilities across the.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Territory, Katie. We are full, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Today.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
We have about two two hundred and fifty prisoners in custody.
We have set expanded operational capacity limits for our facilities
and I won't exceed those, and that's why we're managing
some of those new infrastructure projects, and that's why we
do have prisoners in temporary holding facilities in some of
those watch houses that I've spoken about before.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So when you say that these numbers that you won't exceed,
what are those numbers and why.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, for example, in Alice Springs, it's six hundred and
eighty prisoners. So we have done the work with our
I guess, our folk, our staff, our security specialists, our
management team to work through what we think is the
appropriate operating capacity for that prison with the infrastructure we
have and the staff we need to do the job.
(08:34):
So we've said that's six hundred and eighty. For Alice
Springs in Darwin, it's thirteen seventy three, and then we
have those additional watchouse facilities. But I've been quite clear
that you can't just keep loading in people on top
of people. We have a responsibility under the law to
make sure that those facilities are safe, secure and humane.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Commissioner. I'm sure there'll be people listening though, thinking does
it mean that we've got people who should be in
prison who aren't well.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
My job is to make sure I've got the capacity
to take the people in the custody that the courts
send us. I don't get to decide who comes to jail,
of course, that's the decision for courts and others, and
we work very closely with the court system. We work
very closely with police. If a police are out there
doing their job, and I'm sure they work bloody hard
for the community every day, you know where they're to
(09:24):
back them up as best we can. But our job
is to make sure we're building that new capacity. That's
what we're doing. We've got the ninety six beds coming
a line midyear. We're commissioning another sixty four bed low
security facility in Darwin. And let's not forget too, Katie.
In the past year we've had some great success opening
up those bail support accommodation facilities with the Salvation Army.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Can you tell me in terms of that prison population
and you know, just how many prisoners you're managing. How
many people have you got like in each cell?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, it varies, Katie, from you know, we have a
range of cells of course, because we have to manage
different behaviors and different security classification. So we have everything
from high risk single cells right through dormitories and some
of our larger dormitories can occupy up to sixteen people.
But those are large rooms with bunk beds built in
(10:16):
and you know, shared bathrooms and those sorts of things,
but all of them at different grades of security combined
to make the system work.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Now, can you talk me through with the watchhouses that
are being used at the moment. Is that just the
watchhouse here in Darwen that's being utilized about at Peter McCauley.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We have two in Darwin, Katie. One is the Darwin
City Watchhouse. We've been in there for I think about
nine ten months now. I'd like to not be in there,
but we're managing that facility as a forty bed secure facility.
It's on fortnightly rotations and we move our prisoners through there.
They're all sentenced prisoners in that facility, and we're also
(10:54):
occupying a specialized small watchhouse at Peter McCauley, which has
got fourteen in it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Fourteen so you know, it must be difficult there managing
prisoners and managing staff at those two facilities that really
are not made for long term sort of, you know,
to hold people their long term. How long are they
staying there?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, as I said, our protocol that we've put in
place is two weeks as a cycle, but the general
manager of Darwin can review that and a person can
be cycled through there several.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Times if that's needed.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We actually, it might surprise you, Katie, but we have
some people who volunteer to go there. Yeah right, yeah,
And these are sentenced prisoners who serve their time and
so perhaps sometimes a change of scenery is not a
bad thing.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But we have.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Done some works to make sure those facilities are okay
for our use. We've added in some exercise equipment into
the watchhouses.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Both have a yard where people can get fresh air.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah. Right, so you've actually had to change, like change
the watch houses up a bit.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, and we've installed you know, simple things like televisions
and DVD machines and stuff. So you know, our job
is to make sure people serve their time and we
manage them safely and securely. But of course I often say, Katie,
you know, all of the services you can think of
that we need to provide to humans.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We provide.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So whether that's health, education, wellbeing, visits with family and lawyers.
There's a complex machine that operates every day.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Now, tell me in terms of prisoners on remand have
we got a lot of prisoners at our facilities that
are on Remand we do, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's about forty five percent, Katie, our total population, and
that's been growing over the last twelve to twenty four months,
and that's probably the primary.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Driver of our overall growth. We're not alone in that challenge.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Other jurisdictions are experiencing some similar pressures post COVID, and
I think in a few years time people will do
studies on why that is. But at the end of
the day, yes, we run a prison system that's a
mix of remand and sentence. Today in the territory, we've
probably got over about nine hundred people on remand.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That is a lot, like it's an awful lot, and
it sort of indicates to me, and please correct me
if i'm but indicates to me that you've got people
that are waiting long periods of time to go through
the court system.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Well, yes, and I guess that's the purpose of remand, right. So,
depending on the decisions of the judge, and of course
bail laws and other things, judges make decision about who
should or shouldn't be in the community on bail or
there should be in remand. And the average time for
us spent on remand for a prisoners around about one
hundred and forty days, depending on the type of charges
(13:28):
that they're they're facing, you know, local court, Supreme Court,
those sorts of things. But at the end of the day,
I think it shows that, you know, there are a
lot of people in custody awaiting their court appearance, and
that probably indicates some of the challenges facing court prosecutions and.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Police as well.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, look, it does seem that way, and I know
that there had sort of been discussion about there being
quite long delays for people to be able to go
through you know, the court system. But forty five percent
of you know, of the people that are in our
jails on remand it's like it's a big number.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely, And it's a challenge because remand prisoners have
different needs and we have different responsibilities of course, and
it's an indefinite amount of time, so our officers manage
you know, I would say between fifty to one hundred
different types of court appearances probably every day. We have
every day at both prisons video links operating to courts.
(14:24):
We send prisoners to court, both local and supreme every day,
and of course that's a huge logistical exercise, so it's
not just about locking prisoners in cells. We've got to
get lawyers to visit their clients and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Now in terms of and look, this may be a
question that's better directed at the Northern Territory Police, but
I'll ask and you know, feel free to direct me
to them. But we are being told that there's a
backlog of arrest warrants that police can't actually action because
there's no room in the prisons to be able to
send people there.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Well, I guess you would have to ask police about
their back local warrants. I'm not privy to the systems
that they operate, but I guess at the end of
the day, if police arrest people and put them before
the court, ultimately the court makes a decision on whether
they come to custody or not, and then we manage
that as best we can. I am liaising relatively regularly
(15:19):
with police. I was only speaking to the Deputy Commissioner
this week. We speak often and we're supporting each other
where we can. You know, police have got their hands full,
so do we, and we make sure we swap notes
a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Do you think that there would be any situations where,
you know, where people are going before the court and
they're maybe not being sent to you know, not being
sentenced to prison because there isn't.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Root Look, I don't know, Katie.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You'd have to ask courts those questions, of course, because
there's quite a complexity as to what a judge takes
into consideration when they make a decision of what to
do with a person. Right there's lawyers who argue those
things out at court, and you know we've had, as
a said earlier, creation of the new BAO supported Accommodation
facility in Darwin and Ala Springs. That's a fantastic solution
(16:07):
with the Salvation Army, and it gives judges another option
to remind people to you know, if someone needs to
be put into some supervision but may not necessarily be
needing to go to jail and they just need a
place to stay, then the Salvos have got eighty odd
beds available for us that we're managing at the moment,
and we've had I think, Katie, some one hundred and
(16:28):
sixty one hundred and seventy people through that service in
the past six to eight months. So again it's about
providing different options for the justice system.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Absolutely, Hey, staffing levels, how's your staffing, how's your recruitment going?
It sounds like you need those staff You need some
wonderful people in there working, which I know you've got.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, Katie, we're working really hard on recruitment. I think
since last we spoke, we've recruited probably one hundred and
fifty odd new correctional officers and maybe at least thirty
to forty new specialized staff, including community corrections folk specialized clinicians.
Today Corrections is an organization of well over one thousand people.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I think we're about oney twenty. We're still recruiting hard.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
We've got about thirty odd recruits in training right now.
We've graduated fourteen more only a couple of weeks ago
in National Corrections Day in January. And you know, I'm
really pleased that we're seeing some growth in our recruitment.
We're actually attracting a lot more experienced correctional officers from
other jurisdictions, about from New Zealand in particular. We've gone
(17:31):
fishing in their pond, to be honest, and we've made
some genuine offers and people are starting to take up
that opportunity. And I think in two weeks time we've
got another eighteen nineteen experienced officers commencing in our springs.
So we're really starting to see some traction on that recruitment.
And anyone who wants to come to the territory and
be a corrections officer, we've got a web page.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Check it out. Apply. We're recruiting hard.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, good stuff. Well, we really appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for joining us and talking us through
you know, some of the challenges that you have got
as the commissioner. But you know, it does sound as
though there is quite a bit of work underway which
I think listeners are going to be really pleased to hear.
Thank you for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Good to check Katie. Thanks, thank you.
It's been an incredibly busy start to the year four Corrections.
As we know. Last month, Alice Springs Correctional officers suffered
minor injuries and two prisoners were taken to hospital after
what was described as a riot in a maximum security facility.
At the time, Corrections said no officers were significantly injured
during that incident that involved around twenty seven prisoners. Meanwhile,
(00:23):
prisoners were reportedly busted hiding in the ceiling during a
foiled attempt to escape the Alice Springs Correction Center on
Boxing Day. Now. The United Workers Union said at the
time that sixteen prisoners attempted to escape from Alice Springs
Correctional Center. Joining me in the studio to talk more
about how things are tracking is the Northern Territory Corrections
(00:43):
Commissioner Matthew Varley. Good morning to you. Good morning, Katie, Commissioner.
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I appreciate
you joining us in the studio. Now, how have things
been tracking since the highly publicized incidents. I guess right
at the end of last year early this year.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, kay, there's no doubt we've had our hands full
literally this year, and a busy start to the year.
We're working hard on the ground every day and our
officers are doing a fabulous job, no doubt. We've had
those issues early in the year in our springs that
you've just described, but our prisons are under pressure, but
our officers are doing a fine job. We had those
(01:18):
incidents that occurred, as you say, a couple of months,
a couple of weeks ago. We're working hard to understand
what occurred there. Our intelligence and security folk constantly review
the safety and security of those prisons. They do a
cracking job, and investigations underway in relation to that incident.
But you know, our officers did what they do best
and they respond to that emergency. They quelled it within
(01:40):
about an hour, and from that, you know, further actions follow.
Of course, we refer matters to police, but also there
are immediate disciplinary sanctions under our system for those prisoners involved.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah right, So do you suspect that there could be
any charges.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Late, Well, we gather evidence, obviously, we look at statements
from officers, WI CCTV footage to police. Now the charges
and the investigation isn't matter for them, no doubt. They've
got their hands full too with plenty of other things.
But you know, there's a I guess a parallel process
that occurs, Katie, and that is we have a misconducts
and disciplinary system in the prison. Officers can put prisoners
(02:18):
on what we call intensive management plans that restricts certain
privileges that they have in the system, and then they
can also be put before a disciplinary tribunal if you like,
in the prison system. That's quite separate to any other
action police might take.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well and needed, I would suspect, because you want to
make sure as well, when you have got prisoners in
your care, that they understand that there's rules and regulations
in place, and that if they're not adhering to them,
that there's going to be consequences to that action.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean it wouldn't surprise most people listening, Katie, that
a lot of people don't like being in prison, right
and our job is to make sure that we treat
them fairly and squarely. But there are rules and there
are consequences, and our officers enforce the safety and security
of those blocks every day.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
From time to time, no doubt, things can bubble up
and tensions flair, and our officers respond accordingly.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
But you know. That's why we're constantly.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Reviewing our emergency and safety and security procedures. We're looking
at our upgrading equipment and training. And that's why I
commissioned that immediate security review into G Block in Alice Springs,
you know, because there are infrastructure improvements we potentially can
make to make sure these things are better.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So where's that review at? Has there been any sort
of outcomes that you've been able to act upon?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So we have immediately made some adjustments to locks and
doors in Alice Springs, and obviously welding repairs are made
to the breaches that occurred, and those dorms are back
in action. But we had the very week that that
incident occurred, I asked for specialist engineers and architects to
come to Alice Springs.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I met them there.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We walked through G Block for hours, and they've taken
a tape measure to the place, and we are waiting
on a specialist engineering report to come through to Dipple
and from that, I'll be putting recommendations to government for upgrades. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Right, so there will be some upgrades. I mean, I
guess too early to tell how much that might cost
or how long it might take.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, I anticipate that it will be a sizable works program,
but obviously I've got to take those options to the
Minister and to government. I have been briefed on some
of the preliminary findings. And let's remember, Katie, that this
is a prison that was built in the nineteen nineties, right,
So yes, there's always improvements in not only building standards
and infrastructure, but technology and best practice around custodial lops
(04:36):
around the country that we look at, and that's why
I brought those specialist engineers in. But you know, I
think there's a lot of improvements we can make in
our springs and those are the conversations I'm having with
government at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And so at this point in time, where are those
plans out there at the conversations part?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
No? No. I expect to receive.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
The report from Dipple and the engineers this month, and
then obviously from that, I'll meet with my folk and
our specialists and we'll work out what are the best
options to put forward to government. But I anticipate that
I'll be able to take a package of submissions to government,
you know, in the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And so how soon could that work get underway.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, obviously you've got to work through the design works
if there are immediate things that we can do. And
I might add also, Katie, we've got stuff already in
training Alice Springs. You know, we've had design works underway
for improvements to offices posts down there. We've had we've
got plans to upgrade the front gatehouse entry to make
(05:35):
sure that's better, modern, safe, secure, and we're already working
on some plans to provide refurbishment to some blocks. So
I anticipate that some of those works can commence, you know,
from this financial year coming. But you know, we've also
got those modular constructions online coming in Alice Springs and
(05:56):
they're being delivered as we speak.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Okay, so how soon are they going to be and running?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I hope they'll be online KDI by midyear. I'm targeting
June July. And that's a ninety six bed brand new
medium rated security facility. So these and I want to
go on the record here and say these are not
dongas I've heard that word used quite a bit. These
are specialized prison cells manufactured by New South Wales Corrections.
(06:23):
They've been successfully rolled out across that state and that's
what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, we actually ended up catching up with New South
Wales Corrections and speaking about it, and it sounds like
a really good program, you know. It sounds like a
great thing to be engaging those prisoners in New South
Wales to do that work. And from what he'd said,
these have been operational in New South Wales as well
at different facilities for quite some time, or a similar
sort of you know, a similar sort of building, So
it does sound like it's a good thing, Commissioner, I
(06:47):
do want to ask, I mean, the way in which
the other Springs facility is right now, is it safe
for staff, correction staff and for prisoners.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It is as safe and secure as we make prisons
every day, Katie and I meet with the unions, I
meet with our staff. I talked to our managers all
the time I was down there, I think maybe ten
twelve days ago, and I'm going down again next week.
The safety and security of our facilities is my job,
it's the job of our senior folk. And I met
with the unions only last week, and I'm meeting with
(07:18):
more of our union reps again next week. So we're
listening We're working hard, and I take the safety and
security of those prisons very seriously and the staff as
my number one priority. But where there are ways we
can improve our tactics, our tools, our technology, that's my
job and that's what we're doing now.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Talk me through the prison numbers at the moment. Just
how full are our facilities across the.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Territory, Katie. We are full, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Today.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
We have about two two hundred and fifty prisoners in custody.
We have set expanded operational capacity limits for our facilities
and I won't exceed those, and that's why we're managing
some of those new infrastructure projects, and that's why we
do have prisoners in temporary holding facilities in some of
those watch houses that I've spoken about before.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So when you say that these numbers that you won't exceed,
what are those numbers and why.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, for example, in Alice Springs, it's six hundred and
eighty prisoners. So we have done the work with our
I guess, our folk, our staff, our security specialists, our
management team to work through what we think is the
appropriate operating capacity for that prison with the infrastructure we
have and the staff we need to do the job.
(08:34):
So we've said that's six hundred and eighty. For Alice
Springs in Darwin, it's thirteen seventy three, and then we
have those additional watchouse facilities. But I've been quite clear
that you can't just keep loading in people on top
of people. We have a responsibility under the law to
make sure that those facilities are safe, secure and humane.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Commissioner. I'm sure there'll be people listening though, thinking does
it mean that we've got people who should be in
prison who aren't well.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
My job is to make sure I've got the capacity
to take the people in the custody that the courts
send us. I don't get to decide who comes to jail,
of course, that's the decision for courts and others, and
we work very closely with the court system. We work
very closely with police. If a police are out there
doing their job, and I'm sure they work bloody hard
for the community every day, you know where they're to
(09:24):
back them up as best we can. But our job
is to make sure we're building that new capacity. That's
what we're doing. We've got the ninety six beds coming
a line midyear. We're commissioning another sixty four bed low
security facility in Darwin. And let's not forget too, Katie.
In the past year we've had some great success opening
up those bail support accommodation facilities with the Salvation Army.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Can you tell me in terms of that prison population
and you know, just how many prisoners you're managing. How
many people have you got like in each cell?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well, it varies, Katie, from you know, we have a
range of cells of course, because we have to manage
different behaviors and different security classification. So we have everything
from high risk single cells right through dormitories and some
of our larger dormitories can occupy up to sixteen people.
But those are large rooms with bunk beds built in
(10:16):
and you know, shared bathrooms and those sorts of things,
but all of them at different grades of security combined
to make the system work.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Now, can you talk me through with the watchhouses that
are being used at the moment. Is that just the
watchhouse here in Darwen that's being utilized about at Peter McCauley.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We have two in Darwin, Katie. One is the Darwin
City Watchhouse. We've been in there for I think about
nine ten months now. I'd like to not be in there,
but we're managing that facility as a forty bed secure facility.
It's on fortnightly rotations and we move our prisoners through there.
They're all sentenced prisoners in that facility, and we're also
(10:54):
occupying a specialized small watchhouse at Peter McCauley, which has
got fourteen in it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Fourteen so you know, it must be difficult there managing
prisoners and managing staff at those two facilities that really
are not made for long term sort of, you know,
to hold people their long term. How long are they
staying there?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, as I said, our protocol that we've put in
place is two weeks as a cycle, but the general
manager of Darwin can review that and a person can
be cycled through there several.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Times if that's needed.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We actually, it might surprise you, Katie, but we have
some people who volunteer to go there. Yeah right, yeah,
And these are sentenced prisoners who serve their time and
so perhaps sometimes a change of scenery is not a
bad thing.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But we have.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Done some works to make sure those facilities are okay
for our use. We've added in some exercise equipment into
the watchhouses.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Both have a yard where people can get fresh air.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah. Right, so you've actually had to change, like change
the watch houses up a bit.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, and we've installed you know, simple things like televisions
and DVD machines and stuff. So you know, our job
is to make sure people serve their time and we
manage them safely and securely. But of course I often say, Katie,
you know, all of the services you can think of
that we need to provide to humans.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We provide.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So whether that's health, education, wellbeing, visits with family and lawyers.
There's a complex machine that operates every day.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Now, tell me in terms of prisoners on remand have
we got a lot of prisoners at our facilities that
are on Remand we do, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's about forty five percent, Katie, our total population, and
that's been growing over the last twelve to twenty four months,
and that's probably the primary.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Driver of our overall growth. We're not alone in that challenge.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Other jurisdictions are experiencing some similar pressures post COVID, and
I think in a few years time people will do
studies on why that is. But at the end of
the day, yes, we run a prison system that's a
mix of remand and sentence. Today in the territory, we've
probably got over about nine hundred people on remand.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That is a lot, like it's an awful lot, and
it sort of indicates to me, and please correct me
if i'm but indicates to me that you've got people
that are waiting long periods of time to go through
the court system.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Well, yes, and I guess that's the purpose of remand, right. So,
depending on the decisions of the judge, and of course
bail laws and other things, judges make decision about who
should or shouldn't be in the community on bail or
there should be in remand. And the average time for
us spent on remand for a prisoners around about one
hundred and forty days, depending on the type of charges
(13:28):
that they're they're facing, you know, local court, Supreme Court,
those sorts of things. But at the end of the day,
I think it shows that, you know, there are a
lot of people in custody awaiting their court appearance, and
that probably indicates some of the challenges facing court prosecutions and.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Police as well.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, look, it does seem that way, and I know
that there had sort of been discussion about there being
quite long delays for people to be able to go
through you know, the court system. But forty five percent
of you know, of the people that are in our
jails on remand it's like it's a big number.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, absolutely, And it's a challenge because remand prisoners have
different needs and we have different responsibilities of course, and
it's an indefinite amount of time, so our officers manage
you know, I would say between fifty to one hundred
different types of court appearances probably every day. We have
every day at both prisons video links operating to courts.
(14:24):
We send prisoners to court, both local and supreme every day,
and of course that's a huge logistical exercise, so it's
not just about locking prisoners in cells. We've got to
get lawyers to visit their clients and all sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Now in terms of and look, this may be a
question that's better directed at the Northern Territory Police, but
I'll ask and you know, feel free to direct me
to them. But we are being told that there's a
backlog of arrest warrants that police can't actually action because
there's no room in the prisons to be able to
send people there.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Well, I guess you would have to ask police about
their back local warrants. I'm not privy to the systems
that they operate, but I guess at the end of
the day, if police arrest people and put them before
the court, ultimately the court makes a decision on whether
they come to custody or not, and then we manage
that as best we can. I am liaising relatively regularly
(15:19):
with police. I was only speaking to the Deputy Commissioner
this week. We speak often and we're supporting each other
where we can. You know, police have got their hands full,
so do we, and we make sure we swap notes
a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Do you think that there would be any situations where,
you know, where people are going before the court and
they're maybe not being sent to you know, not being
sentenced to prison because there isn't.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Root Look, I don't know, Katie.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You'd have to ask courts those questions, of course, because
there's quite a complexity as to what a judge takes
into consideration when they make a decision of what to
do with a person. Right there's lawyers who argue those
things out at court, and you know we've had, as
a said earlier, creation of the new BAO supported Accommodation
facility in Darwin and Ala Springs. That's a fantastic solution
(16:07):
with the Salvation Army, and it gives judges another option
to remind people to you know, if someone needs to
be put into some supervision but may not necessarily be
needing to go to jail and they just need a
place to stay, then the Salvos have got eighty odd
beds available for us that we're managing at the moment,
and we've had I think, Katie, some one hundred and
(16:28):
sixty one hundred and seventy people through that service in
the past six to eight months. So again it's about
providing different options for the justice system.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Absolutely, Hey, staffing levels, how's your staffing, how's your recruitment going?
It sounds like you need those staff You need some
wonderful people in there working, which I know you've got.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, Katie, we're working really hard on recruitment. I think
since last we spoke, we've recruited probably one hundred and
fifty odd new correctional officers and maybe at least thirty
to forty new specialized staff, including community corrections folk specialized clinicians.
Today Corrections is an organization of well over one thousand people.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I think we're about oney twenty. We're still recruiting hard.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
We've got about thirty odd recruits in training right now.
We've graduated fourteen more only a couple of weeks ago
in National Corrections Day in January. And you know, I'm
really pleased that we're seeing some growth in our recruitment.
We're actually attracting a lot more experienced correctional officers from
other jurisdictions, about from New Zealand in particular. We've gone
(17:31):
fishing in their pond, to be honest, and we've made
some genuine offers and people are starting to take up
that opportunity. And I think in two weeks time we've
got another eighteen nineteen experienced officers commencing in our springs.
So we're really starting to see some traction on that recruitment.
And anyone who wants to come to the territory and
be a corrections officer, we've got a web page.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Check it out. Apply. We're recruiting hard.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, good stuff. Well, we really appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for joining us and talking us through
you know, some of the challenges that you have got
as the commissioner. But you know, it does sound as
though there is quite a bit of work underway which
I think listeners are going to be really pleased to hear.
Thank you for your time this morning.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Good to check Katie. Thanks, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com