The Week That Was – 16th February 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it is Friday morning, it is time for the
week that was, and joining me in the studio this morning,
the colp is Bill Yam. Good morning to you, Bill,
Good morning Katy. Great have you in the studio. From
nine News Star when we've got Georgie Dickerson, Good morning
to you, George in morning Katie, good to have you
in here. The Independent Member for Goida, Kezia Puric, good
morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning Katy, and good morning to my Bush people.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
And from the Labor Party we have got the Attorney
General and Minister for various portfolios.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Chancy Paig, good morning.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Good morning Katy. In a shout out to everyone.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Tuned in, Chancey, I'm glad you're back. I wasn't sure
if you'd.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Come back and chat to me this morning after our
interesting interview earlier in the week.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Can't pick up my chance.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
Oh look, Katie, always happy to have a good good.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yarn absolutely Hey, there is so much to cover off
on this morning, and a week is a long time
in politics.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
There is no doubt about that.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
We kicked the week off with the Northern Territory opposition
obviously continuing those calls on the government to provide documents
to show whether Chancey Pake, the Deputy Chief Minister, declared
in cabin that he held shares in a company involved
in the wholesale distribution of alcohol in Alice Springs. So
we've spoken extensively about that today. Well, the COLP facing

(01:11):
questions of their own after Josh Burgoyne, it's been revealed,
is facing dangerous driving charges after a crash involving a
vehicle in Adelaide last August. Now, the ABC last night
reported that mister Burgoyne was involved in the incident. Sources
say that incident involved mister Burgoyne failing to stop at
an intersection and crashing into another vehicle. The COLP have

(01:36):
provided the statement saying that the Member for Braitling was
involved in a traffic accident in August twenty twenty three.
He's currently going through the usual and proper process and
the Member for Braitling has cooperated fully with the traffic Police. Now,
these are very different incidents, very different situations. But you know,

(01:56):
the real sort of glaring irony I guess this morning
is the fact that the CLP has indeed been calling
on the Northern Territory government to be open and transparent
and now we've got a situation where it seems as
though the CLP has hidden something bill since August last year.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones, Old Bush saying.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Well, everyone in politics throws stones, don't they.

Speaker 5 (02:19):
But you're right, okay, it's a two very very different
instances that we were talking with Chancey this week. You're
buying those shares in met cash. A few months before,
of course the stronger futures lapsed and we see those
of course.

Speaker 6 (02:32):
All at alcohol coming into our community.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
So that's an integrity issue around cabinet and decision making.
What we've seen here is the issue with Josh. Of
course again it's certainly a matter of public interest and
it's something that we're working through of course with our wing.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
And I believe there's some further statements.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Well, I have just received a statement from Leofanocchiaro. Now
it says the Member for Braitling was involved in a
traffic accident in well, it says in Alice Springs in
August twenty twenty three. Was it in Alice Springs or
was it in Alice Springs? He informed me at the time,
and my immediate concern was face shavy I'll get through

(03:16):
this statement quickly, he informed me at the time, and
my immediate concern was for the safety of all those involved,
particularly his heavily pregnant wife, who was in the car.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
I was told.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Police and ambulance attended the accident as per the usual
processes for the first time. Traffic police contacted Josh this
week indicating he would likely be charged in relation to
the accident. He immediately informed me there is no further
information regarding charges. Leofanoccio says, traffic accidents unfortunately occur every

(03:48):
day on territory roads and police and emergency services do
an amazing job responding to investigating. This private matter for
Josh and his family will become public if he is charged,
and I will provide him with support through this process
and let the legal system run its course.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
I mean, so, has he been charged, Well, it's still unclear.

Speaker 7 (04:09):
But even if Leo had found out last week, that
should have still been jump on the front foot of
it and let the territories know, because you know, as
we have said, it's been throwing stones at each other
for this whole week.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
It should have been clear cut.

Speaker 7 (04:22):
As you know, we have had this situation let's get
on the front foot before eventually everyone finds out regardless.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, well that's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
My understanding is that I think josh was only contact
by police this week.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
So well, yeah, that's what that statement says. Sure it was,
That's what that statement says. And look, I understand that,
and I understand that obviously safety is of the utmost
concern and making sure that everybody involved in that incident.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is kept safe. But look, the whole point of this
is that you know.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
That you do need to be on the front foot,
be open, transparent, honest, and it goes across the board,
you know, with all of our politicians on both sides.
But for a week where where this CLP has indeed
really been throwing stones at the Labor Party, and rightly
so you've got to be prepared that those are going
to get thrown back.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
What I mean, all that Joshua, the Member for Bratley,
needed to do was to talk to the speaker and
asked to do a personal statement in the house when
there's nothing before the chair and members have often done
personal statements about something. You know, someone said something about
them it was incorrect, so they do a personal statement
or they want to do a personal statement to correct
the record or something that has been said incorrectly, and

(05:28):
he could have done that. He could have done it
at the beginning of days. You look, make a personal
statement to let the parliament know that this is what's
happened and if charges.

Speaker 5 (05:37):
And of course those charges will be will be made public,
will notify the public of what they are, if those
charges eventually, well.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Look, I'm a little bit confused because in the initial
instance of the reporting of this it said that it
happened in South Australia, but now it's saying that it
happened in Alice Springs.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
What do you know this is?

Speaker 8 (05:53):
But this is first and foremost leaf Andochiaro and the
CLP are a bunch of hypocrites. They could have been
this is a bit rich to will let me finish.
For over six months, Josh Burgoyne knew of this episode.
In this offense where it is alleged that he potentially
caused harm to another person dangerously driving. If charged, carries

(06:14):
an offensive up to five years. He had the opportunity
to come clean to territorians and say this has happened,
but he has hidden it from territorians for over six months.
He stands up in Parliament and he lectures people about
dangerous driving and about driving offenses, yet he has hidden
this from Territorians for over six months.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Now here's the difference. What I was in the media.

Speaker 8 (06:37):
For this week has been actually open and declared and
on the public record for over two years. Josh Burgoyne
is facing alleged criminal charges for dangerous driving and causing
harm to others.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
So you and Leah and the CLP are a bunch
of hypocrites.

Speaker 8 (06:53):
You cannot talk about being open and transparent when you
have been hiding an.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Incident in Alice Springs cause no credibility in hires criminal
charges or potential charge.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
It is you know, it's it's going to be a
nasty situation politically, and I think that that is what
we have seen this week is that you know this
is they are two very different incidents.

Speaker 7 (07:19):
And he does have a court date though, so he
would have had to have been charged charges.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Understanding is that he has been charged. It did happen
in Alice Springs. I've just had clarification that it did
happen in Alice Springs.

Speaker 8 (07:29):
Trying to cover it up with that statement, if he
is going to court. He is facing charges for dangerous driving.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Katie, think one question, and maybe there's someone who's listening
that can help us, who's in the police. Is the
difference of dangerous driving in charged with dangerous driving versus
being charged with reckless driving? Now they're both serious, but
I don't know which one is more serious. So if
someone's out there listening, police or legal because if you're

(07:55):
charged with reckless driving, that's very serious as well, and
generally from my limited knowledge, as you would the leads
still do is lose your license and have a fine.
So perhaps danger's driving is the higher level.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Well, and look, hopefully I didn't read that statement out wrong,
but it says for the first time traffic police contacted
Josh this week indicating he would likely be charged in
relation to the accident. He immediately informed me there is
no further information regarding charges. So they're saying the Leah's
office is saying he has not been charged.

Speaker 9 (08:27):
So but first of all, who would believe Lea when
she if she heard about this from Josh Berguy, she
should have come out like I did this week front
of the media, had everyone there talked about what had
actually happened that those.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Had been guest to play devils after jo believe you
know who was saying that at that moment.

Speaker 8 (08:48):
To remember for Goid just said Josh had the opportunity
to do a personal statement in parliament. Josh took the
opportunity to do a personal statement in parliament against Iran Young,
the Member for Daily, So he knows the processes. He
chose to ignore those processes and come clean for.

Speaker 5 (09:04):
What he a personal statement on whether or not you
actually said and declared your conflict of interest, mate.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
I've been publicly.

Speaker 8 (09:13):
Yeah, it's been on the record for over two years
my disclosure.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
You want to we will, certainly we are going to
get into the Shares scandal in a moment, but I
do want to get to the bottom of this situation
involving Josh Berglewin because I think that it is incredibly
important that we know exactly what's going on here. It's
incredibly important that all of our politicians are held to account.
Whether you're in opposition or whether you are an independent,
or whether you're in the government. You know, whether you

(09:37):
are the deputy Chief Minister or whatever position you might hold.

Speaker 7 (09:41):
Now, I thought he did have a court date set
for around I believe it was March four. People have
said so he has been charged. So if Leea's statement
saying he hasn't been charged date otherwise, why you're going
to courts.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
I wouldn't believe anything that she says.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Well, you know, if you can check on the court
list for March fourth and supers well, well.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
We'll be able to see whether it's on there. And look,
you know, I want to be quite clear here. I
think that you know, the situation is not that the
traffic crash has happened. I mean, yes, that is very
serious in my eyes, and everybody needs to make sure
that they are following the rules of the law. But
the fact here is that the CLP has been absolutely

(10:21):
you know, giving it to Chancey this week and rightly
so he deserves it.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
And we'll get to that in a minute.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
But the fact is that you know that this has
been kept secret and silent since August.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
Well, there's a motivehicle crash always last year, and okay,
there's motivehicle crashes happened all the time, Katie, but there
was only just this week that police have come back
to Josh and said, yes, said you are likely to
pace charge or.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
So, so only if you do something wrong that you
kind of that you then or only if you charge.

Speaker 7 (10:51):
Even if Leo had found out, she should have the
day after all, the day of it should have been
this has happened. We're going to release the public statement.
Sealp holds topics of the day presses single day. That
could have been one of the topics. So it's not
that hard to pull the media together to then say
this is what's happened.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
It's not that hard.

Speaker 8 (11:07):
I mean, Josh takes to Facebook every five minutes talking
about everything that everyone else does. Would have been really
simple for Josh josh Berg going to be upfront and
clear and say, hey, this is going out, this is
what happened.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
I'm sorry for anything that harm that I've caused. This
is it. But he's chose to not disclose that.

Speaker 8 (11:25):
He's chosen not to do a statement, and Lea Finocchiires
chose to continue to hide that.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well. Look, there is a lot of questions I think
that still remain unanswered. But there are still some questions
that remain unanswered as well. When it comes to the
Shares scandal, Chancey, you and I spoke quite extensively about
this earlier in the week. The question that remains unanswered
is whether you stood up in that cabinet room and
declared those declared to your cabinet colleagues, or whether you

(11:53):
removed yourself from any discussions when it came to any conflicts.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
But Katie, I heard that interview with yourself and Chancey
and it's a long interview. And I not that I'm
defending him.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
It sounds like you might be going to Gizier.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, he was a deputy Speaker and a very good one,
so us presiding officers do need to stick together. I
think chance he's said it quite eloquently that he can't
reveal what was said or done in cabinet.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
And no one's asking him to.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
He can't. He can't even say well, I think anyway,
and the chance you can correct me if I'm wrong.
But I don't think he can even specify what he
did or how he did it.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
And I know that down in issues.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
In my like there's a breakdown then in my humble opinion,
because I think to myself, if you're a member of
a board, it's right at the start of a board
meeting that that disclosure happens you you know you say it,
there would be absolutely no no one's asking, you know,
any information from that cabinet meeting to actually be revealed.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
But you know, like I was just saying about.

Speaker 6 (12:57):
It's fairly simple. It's a yes or no.

Speaker 8 (12:59):
Yeah, well, it's a fairly simple answer from Josh Bergine
yes or no.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Talking to But when we're talking about honesty, you know
it's gonna be hard for some people listening this morning
if they're thinking to themselves, well, hang on a sex
chance he's saying that Josh isn't being honest, but you're
not prepared to say yes or no.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
I did again.

Speaker 8 (13:19):
I have declared those interests on the members registerable Interests.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
I did it the day it happened.

Speaker 8 (13:25):
I signed before question by fronted the media when it
actually happened. Katie, I said it earlier this week. I've
said it on your show. I'm saying it again today.
I have always declared where there is a perceived, a
possible or a real conflict. Everyone knows where I've been
meeting with people around stuff. You always declare that. Again,
cabinet records, a cabinet and confidence they're there, and then

(13:48):
they're released in thirty years. But I absolutely will continue
to say hand on heart where there is possible, perceived
or real conflicts, I have always, absolutely, one hundred percent
declared the Chief Minister spoke about a few things. We
have a cabinet handbook which talks about how you manage conflicts.

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Katie, you had the EYECAP.

Speaker 8 (14:08):
Commissioner on your show this week talking about conflicts and
that there are conflicts everywhere. It's how you manage a conflict,
and Chief Minister this week has come out saying that
this is a clunky system.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
It needs to be reviewed.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Kathleen Roberts, have you seen one of the ways that
we have seen those conflicts managed in the past. My
understanding is that when Nicole Madison had what she saw
as a conflict of interest around the turf club Grandstad,
she removed herself from that cabinet meeting.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
So is that something that you did.

Speaker 8 (14:39):
Nicole Madison absolutely has declared that again, I have always
removed myself where there is possible, real or perceived conflict.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
With this and again I'm being absolutely clear.

Speaker 8 (14:51):
But stronger futures, much strong future was that she removed
herself when it was a problem.

Speaker 7 (14:59):
Diventary it needs to change so that there is you know,
obviously the cabinet documents aren't released for thirty years, but
it needs to be a clearer system so that if
a politician has removed themselves because of X, Y and Z,
it should be public knowledge because then the public knows
that there isn't a complex.

Speaker 8 (15:16):
And the Chief Ministers made it clear that that's what
she's brought that review on to do.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
And again I'll make it one hundred percent clear.

Speaker 8 (15:24):
Stronger Futures was not Northern Territory government legislation.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
It was legislation.

Speaker 8 (15:30):
Which make a great point, great point, and I need
to clear this up right now. Stronger Futures came in
the Northern Territory emergency response in two thousand and seven.
I have lived in the Territory my whole life. I
have opposed every function and every fiber of my body
has been opposed to the Northern Territory Stronger Futures legislation

(15:51):
well before I entered Northern Territory Parliament, and I will
oppose that positioning well beyond my time.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
In these issues though then as well. I mean, can
you look at it from from an objective perspective, if
that's been your view from well before you entered Parliament.

Speaker 8 (16:04):
I have always declared that amongst all of my colleagues
and everyone in the community when I've spoken to them,
knows my position on that.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
One of the issues that was raised with us yesterday
and we have sought clarification both from your office and
also from the Department of Health and the Department of
Attorney Generals and Justice is tenders which have been awarded
over the last couple of years.

Speaker 8 (16:26):
Want to be really clear here, tenders are managed by
departments at operational levels. At no point do cabinet ministers
get involved with procurement, because that is corruption and that
has certainly not happened. All procurement happens at a department
level and ministers have no carriage or say over what happened.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Would you have been aware of any tenders being awarded
and knowing whether you know then the investment that you
were making was going to be a good one?

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 8 (16:53):
Tenders are not announced until they are announced to the
successful person. His ministers have no carriage or input or
say over who gets a check.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Do you have any idea why the information pertaining to
those tenders which was a massive tender in relation to
correctional correctional facilities and also health facilities, and the tenders
listed included met cash and rightly so it would be
completely within their completely within their realm to obviously tender
for that job. But do you have any idea why

(17:24):
they're not publicly listed who was awarded those roles those.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's not been listed.

Speaker 8 (17:30):
Yeah, So to be clear, tenders are listed, they go
through a process of when they're awarded and then when
they get uploaded.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
But Katie, their questions for the.

Speaker 8 (17:39):
Department of Health, we can't to the bottom of answer
from the Department of Health because it.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Was there their tender, but also it was according to
those tender documents, it was through the Department of Health
and the Department of Attorney General and Justice for those
facilities operational.

Speaker 8 (17:56):
I think Keasier and Bill will be able to talk
to this procurement is a process that ministers never get
involved in they are running.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Look, I would certainly hope not and I think that
that would be what the whole community would view as
being the appropriate way to do this.

Speaker 8 (18:10):
Even if a tender had gone through the Legislative Assembly.
When myself and Kizier were speakers, we would never see
it because it's managed by the CEO and they're delegated officials,
no connection to cabinet at all.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Well, I'm really hoping that we are actually able to
just see those tender documents and who was awarded all
of those different tenders. Look, I think it's important that
no matter what, and I think that we can all
agree based on the discussions that we've had this morning,
that openness and transparency is definitely the key no matter
what you are talking about, because nine times out of
ten in every situation, and we're seeing it this morning.

(18:48):
Of course with the situation involving Josh Burgoyne, that it
is better.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
To be upfront and honest right from the get go.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I mean, I do just want to know to finish
up on this Shares situation, though, I asking everybody in
the room. I mean, I sort of I've asked the
question of Chancey obviously, do we really need that clarification
as to whether it was declared, you know, before Chancey
had those cabinet discussions before we can move on from

(19:16):
this issue.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I think so.

Speaker 7 (19:18):
I think it also, yes, something might be within the rules,
but I think it's also about public perception, and so
I think that's where this whole conflict of interest review
needs to be clearer, because yes, you might legally and
buy the book, be allowed to have these shares, but
if you know someone from the public sees this, and obviously,
as we've spoken about all week, it can be perceived
by the public that you would have a conflict of it,

(19:38):
because even.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
If it's been the conduct in the cabin Handbook is
actually quite clear. If you've got chares that could be
a conflict of interest to your portfolios, you should divest
yourself with those shares straight away. It's as simple as that.
And we're talking about tenders and bits and pieces. I'm
not having to crack a chance hey over this, but
if you've got shares in met cash, we know that
met cash supplies to why.

Speaker 6 (19:58):
The Department Health, the Department justs.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
So they're supplying the hospitals and of course the prisons
in Central Australia and up here. Is that also a
perceived conflict of interest? The question and that's what you
were talking about there, k, So it comes back to that.
So the Candahaan book is quite clear on this fact.
If it could be a conflict of interest.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Get rid of them and look and like we see it.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
I think it's really you know, hearing from the Ikak
Commissioner yesterday and him issuing that statement as well. He
joined us on the show. There are going to be
conflicts of interest in the Northern Territory. There is no
doubt about that. The place is so small it's really
hard to not have those conflicts of interests. But whether
we like it or not, people have very high expectations
of our politicians, no matter what side of the fence

(20:41):
they're on.

Speaker 8 (20:42):
Accepting that, accepting there's this review being underway. Ironic that
the leader of the opposition has sold her coal shares
and that the all members of the opposition the start
is interesting that they've now seen as this story has broken.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
As soon as you became Chief Minister, you sold jors
she syms.

Speaker 8 (21:06):
I might have been required to act on behalf of
another minister where there could have been a real.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Proceeding times in your role as the Minister for Town
Camps it may have been seen that there was that
conflict as well.

Speaker 8 (21:18):
I've always declared Katie, and I will continue to do.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
You won't say whether you did in the cabinet meeting because.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Because I can't, I will not break cabinet. I will
not break.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
It from if we heard it from Nicole Madison that
she removed herself in the discussions about the grandstand, I'm
gonna call it it's bullshit that you can't say whether
you did or did I'm going.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
To call it that.

Speaker 8 (21:42):
This situation is completely different and this situation I have
always declared things. This is a situation that we have.
There's a review going underway. This is a completely separate
situation to myself and the Member for Breatley.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I'm not facing every time.

Speaker 6 (21:58):
If Tom is a problem, Lib calls a.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Review, all right, we're going to have to take a
quick break that.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
First criminal charges.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
It has been a massive week and it kicked off
with the Northern Territory Chief Minister Evil Lawla promising a
review of youth justice laws and three new youth detention
camps in a public address outlining her priorities for.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
The year ahead.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
So she spoke to a crowd on Monday morning and
also announced a large extension to the Casarina Coastal Reserve.
Her main focus so was getting on getting all Territorians
who can work well, getting them to work. What did
you think of the Chief Minister's Year ahead speech?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Was it? You know, I did it really give you
that amp up that you need for the year.

Speaker 7 (22:44):
I think it was good With the youth justice in
terms of it. I would like to see how it's
actually going to work though. Obviously the residential facilities, you know,
are kids. Who's going to go there, who's going to staff?
I think the main thing is who's actually going to
staff it because there's always questions around we have not
enough police officers territory for families.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Things like that.

Speaker 7 (23:01):
So working out who's actually going to staff these facilities
will be key. And you know, I think we've spoken
a lot about you know, sentencing these kids and they need.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Skills after it.

Speaker 7 (23:11):
So how that is actually clear cut going to work?
So once these kids are in the system, do they
have a clear path forward so they don't go back
into that cycle.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
But Georgie, some of these are just rehashes of old promises,
like the promise to do the youth facility in Tenant
Creek I believe was made back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,
and we're coming into twenty twenty four and we're finally
seeing some movement on it. So I think some of
a lot of this is a lot of little too

(23:39):
a little too late, Katie.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I listened to some of it the Chief Minister's speech,
and trying to get people into jobs is very admirable
because there's no doubt about it. Employment of any kind
gives people purpose, It gives them finances to do things
that they wish to do. But the tricky thing is
getting real jobs in remote communities and not just sort

(24:03):
of half baked gammon jobs. You know, Like if they're
going to provide real jobs, then they've got to be
a real industry. And it's right, and I mean there
are lots of jobs in Aboriginal communities and around, you know,
and they basically come from the mining industry, the partial industry,
in the seafood industry and tourism. So they are the
industries that have to be boosted that will allow people

(24:23):
to get well.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
This is the thing I think that when we're talking
about jobs, we don't want to like, you know, you
want to create. You want to create job opportunities in
every community.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
No matter where you are.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
And I know that those different job opportunities are going
to differ on the kind of industries that are around.
But when some communities the only hope of a job
is within, you know, the health clinic or within the
different services that are available, and they are wonderful clinics,
they are wonderful places to work, but there's not a
lot of jobs.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
You know, Yes, I think just a few parts. You know.

Speaker 8 (24:55):
I take bills comments around this stuff, but I want
to be really clear. Ei Lawla is a straight talker,
she's fair di income and she's action orientated in her
political career and her professional career before entering parliament as
an educator. Eva Lawla gets shited done and she's gonna
get it done. I've got absolute confidence in her doing that.
She's made a clear stamp. Georgie talks about these camps.

(25:18):
They're actually going to be run by territory families, so
we know that they're running, and they're going to be
offered to do partnerships with Aboriginal organizations and other organizations
in the community to partner to come in.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
And run those programs.

Speaker 8 (25:31):
Keysy makes the point the address was about getting people working.
It's not about jobs. We talk about jobs, jobs, jobs.
There's plenty of jobs in the territory. Let's get these
mob into these jobs. And you know, the Commonwealth finally
finally come out with an announcement this week three thousand
jobs to replace parts of CDP, which is now going

(25:53):
to enable organizations across the territory health clinics, councils, NGOs
to apply to create persitions where then they can get
people into those positions where they're paying a minimum wage,
wages and conditions. Now that's great news for me, that's
great news for Bill and Namajura because it's about getting
people off CDP, off welfare dependency into a real job.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
But as we all talk about here, it's got to.

Speaker 8 (26:19):
Be meaningful employment, as Keysy said, can't be a gam
and job like a come here and paint a rock
for a week. No, come here and deliver services in
the clinic or in a school or in that So
that's you know, nt members of all political sites, we've
got to see what the Commonwealth is going to do
and how that's going to roll out.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
One particular thing out of the Chief Minister speech this
week was the review into the Youth Justice Act. Now,
it was Labor that played around with this act back
in the day and we're seeing sadly some of the
results of those changes.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
Now all of a sudden, we're going to do.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
A review and go back into the act, which has
been a disaster of their own making.

Speaker 6 (26:56):
Well was taking this long? I think a lot of
people have been calling for a review.

Speaker 5 (26:59):
And angels to the youth justice Zach could try and
turn around what we're seeing, and now you've been winging.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
You're not happy to fix problem.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
What I want to do is take a really quick
break because I do want to delve a little bit
more into the into that review announcement, but also a
little bit more into some of what's actually happening in
Queensland at the moment where they've got a situation where
they've got police who are saying that they're too scared
to go to work because there are youths who are
running an absolute mark and are able to get away
with it. So I do want to just talk a

(27:35):
little bit more about that. In just a moment's time,
you are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
If you've just joined us this morning, we've got Billy
and Georgie Dickinson, Keesy Epuric and Chancey Paiker in the studio. Now,
as we just touched on, there has been announced by
the Northern Territory Chief Minister a review into well a
review really into the way in which we're doing things
within youth justice. So the Chief Minister as outlined the
Territory government's planned to curb youth crime, support victims, keep

(28:05):
offenders accountable and provide a pathway of skills, training and education.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
For our young people.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Now, there is quite a bit to take in on this,
but I want to also take you to an incident
that our Northern Territory Police had to deal with yesterday.
So in the early hours of yesterday, the Northern Territory
Police responded to a report of an incident involving multiple
stolen vehicles in Winnelli. Those vehicles are confirmed to be
owned by local business and prompted an immediate investigation by

(28:33):
Strikeforce Trident.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Now through community information.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Strikeforce Trident then identified the youth offenders involved, all of
whom were already known to police under electronic monitoring device
now utilizing the EMD tracking, Strikeforce Trident with the support
of Dog Operations, that Dog Operations Unit and the Darwin
traffic operations. They initiated several pursuits across the Greater Darwin region.
One pursuit was terminated due to safety concerns arising from

(28:59):
excessive speed and dangerous driving. It included the stolen motor
vehicle deliberately ramming a police car and throwing bottles of
liquor at all police vehicles involved. Now, in a subsequent pursuit,
that stolen motor vehicle continued with that reckless behavior and
rammed a second police vehicle. Despite the daring actions, the
two police vehicles sustained moderate panel damage but remained operational,

(29:23):
so that pursuit then concluded in the Palmerston area, where
the tire deflation devices were utilized as a result. So
there is more to it, as in like more work
that the police did. But as a result, three youths
aged thirteen remain in police custody and are expected to
be charged later yesterday. So I'm not one hundred percent
sure whether they have been charged at this point.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't believe they've been charged, Okay, not.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yet, but two other youths have been identified in the offending,
with further arrests and charges expected. So this is the
kind of incident that our Northern Territory police are dealing
with on a fairly regular occurrent skadie.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
The theft of cars from premises is commonplace, even big
wire fences, lock gates, even guard dogs in the premises.
What's happened out at Georgina Crescent. Andrew Johnson's got a
mechanical shop there.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
R and M.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Auto's great shop. Hello Andrew, and he's had to put
all the cars like you put your car in it
takes about three or four days to get fixed whatever,
and usually some of the cars can be left outside
the lock shed. But what is has to do, what
he has to do now is put all the cars
in the lock shed, or he rings you and says
your car is ready, you have to get it today,
because he's got a hold.

Speaker 6 (30:35):
The responsibility of having that's right and tell people that.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
And he's been really disappointed in how the labor governments
responded to this. But they cut through the fence. So
they've got bolt cutters, they've got the equipment, and they
stealing cars, you know, and they let the dogs out,
and so they don't leave the dogs there anymore. Not
not vicious dogs, just guard watch dogs. So they're cutting
through the fences and they're stealing cars. Is a commonplace
out in that Parmesan industrial area and.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
They steal it.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, and then Nick was during the night.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
This doesn't surprise me. And look, I should be.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I think the book thrown at.

Speaker 7 (31:08):
These kids were already they already had electronic monitoring devices,
the reading. They've all got angle bracelets, which I think
is even more concerning. And given their age that these kids.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
By old bloody merry go round and it's it's frightening, right,
it's really frightening to themselves and to everybody else in
the community that you've got thirteen year olds behind the
wheel of a car, you know, like it's incredibly scary.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
And we see the same say the same things in
Central Australia. But what's happening in Central Australia now It
is becoming more brazen. So they're actually stealing the cars
and not using them that night hot So cars stolen,
car stolen weeks ago, it's stashed away and a couple
of weeks later they're out in the car. We're seeing
that reasonably regularly now, So that's that's planning. Yeah, it's

(31:54):
really horrendous and it's so dangerous. We had a death
in l Springs a while ago at the main traffic lights.
Kids in a stolen car run a red light and
kill gentleman. I'm sadly I'm waiting for that to possibly
happen again, and we've got to do something to stop
this because if we don't, we're going to see another
death on our streets, whether it's an innocent bystander or

(32:14):
one of these kids in a stylen vehicle, We're going
to see another tragedy and a fatality very soon.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well and in Queensland, right so I want to just
take you to this article in Queenslander.

Speaker 8 (32:23):
It's important to just acknowledge, yes, this is a real
issue across every corner of the territory that we need
to do this work in and people just throw cheap
lines that we need more engine and mobilizers. That's not
going to solve the problem. What is going to solve
the problem is tackling the root causes of crime. But
I just want to acknowledge a shout out to the
Northern Territory Police who continued the pursuit, who continue to

(32:46):
actually provide to the options to do that pursuit in
a safe manner. But you know, we've got to give
it to our territory police. They continue to work in
day and day out, regardless of the challenge, and we
just need to acknowledge that Katie will go on.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
The work that they are facing at the moment is
incredibly dangerous. So that's the reason I want to take
you to this article in Queensland right so in the
Courier Mail it it's being reported that frontline police officers
are calling in sick. They're refusing to go out in
marked police cars and don't want to walk the streets
at night out of fear of being targeted by young criminals.
Now the officers across the state have opened up about

(33:21):
the ongoing youth crime crisis in Golfing Queensland and they're
frustrations with the revolving door of the Children's Court, which
they claim is doing little to ease the crisis.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
So the fed up police.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Spoke out after respecting Gold Coast District duty officer Aaron
Ottaway was stood down for allegedly authorizing officers to ram
a stolen car that police say was driven by an
armed teened offender on a crime rampage.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
So you know, I guess the thing that people are.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Wanting right now as well is that support for the
Northern Territory police, because if we've got a situation in
places like Queensland where police are second guessing how they
deal with these kinds of situations, I mean, somebody's and
I don't know the details exactly around that one, but
where somebody is then authorized for them to be able
to continue to apprehend a vehicle that's ramming them and

(34:10):
then you're worried about whether you're going to get in trouble.
This is you know, like, this is a really very
difficult situation for police.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
It goes back to some of the stuff that's been
in those police surveys.

Speaker 6 (34:20):
Over the last few years, Katie.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
That the police have lost faith somewhat back in their
executive back in the day, but also with the lost
faith in the government because they weren't seeing that support
when they were doing their duty.

Speaker 6 (34:34):
So that's turning around now.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
I said, we did see some changes in that survey,
but there's still a lot of police that certainly don't
feel supportive, I think, but.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I think it's also if they feel they're not supported.
That's one part of it. But the other part is like,
not everyone is a perfect, really good driver. So you know,
while all these police are trained well and to very
high standard, not everyone is a brilliant driver. So even
in doing the pursuit, they're putting their loan lives at
risk because they've got to watch every We're apart from chasing,

(35:02):
chasing among all kids. But sometimes the police probably are
fed up with their jobs because of the nature of
the job now compared to say ten twelve.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
But also what they're saying is that they feel the
youth justice system there is letting them down.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
And so I think the point that we need to touch opportunity.

Speaker 8 (35:18):
I mean, even Bill has just acknowledged right here, right
now that with Brent Potter coming in, with all the
work with the Police review involving people being change change
what you just said.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Mate, there's turn around.

Speaker 8 (35:32):
We've got a police minister who backs in our police.
There is that work. You've got the Chief Minister, Evia
laula fared income territory and straight talker, has invited the
CELP and Territorians to have input into the youth system's
reform because she knows she's frustrated. You're frustrated, the community
is frustrated, the CLP is frustrated.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
Enough, let everyone be part of a.

Speaker 8 (35:55):
Conversation and a solution where we can drive changes because
we know that we can all work together to get
a better result.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
In the beers any frustration And you know, I'm keen
to get everybody's perspective on this, but do you think
there's any frustration then when it comes to you know,
the police obviously apprehending these people, you know you've got
a situation in this, in this most recent incident, and
I know we can't go into specifics of that, but
we're they've already got those electronic monitoring devices on their
rainkles where somewhere the system is letting us down.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
But that's why this works happening, Katy, because.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
The court system where is that where.

Speaker 8 (36:31):
This is what this process is going to highlight everyone's
good an opportunity.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
So it's not just people saying, ah, it's just you mob. No,
it's it's.

Speaker 8 (36:40):
Labor, it's COLP, it's community members, it's stakeholders. Everyone can
actually identify where they think there are issues and we
can look at reform that the Parliament can embark on changing.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
If it's legislative or if it's a system review.

Speaker 8 (36:54):
Because we need to stop this cycle of reoffending and
we need to be doing it. And I'm actually thankful
that we've got funding from the Commonwealth to look at
this screening because most of these kids that we're talking
about kids have either ADHD or faz D or some
disorder that we actually need to tackle the little kids,
but they're walking.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
In allow them to continue to write a veticle will
put other people in danger.

Speaker 7 (37:19):
It's frustrating because I think from a community point of view,
it feels like there is always reviews from both parties.
So we've got the police review underway at the moment,
that will still be another few weeks at least before
that's released, and then you know, it's months until there's
action from that. Now we've got the Youth Justice review
months after that, so I feel like it's just a
continuing circle of reviews that frustrates.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
To the CLP called for those reviews for a while.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
We're not going to see the results of this Youth
Justice Sect review until after the election. Choice choice as
Georgie's changes in the Youth Justice Sect that we're implemented
by Labe years ago.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
Jesus, you have no credibility in this space. Mate.

Speaker 8 (38:04):
When you were in government, you caused us to have
a Royal Commission into the Protection and Attention of Young
People in the Territory that costs the territory two hundred
and fifty million. Your policy settings under that four years
then required us to take.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
The credibility issues.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
I'm going to commissions when you're in going.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
To point out that we're now in a situation though,
where the Northern Territory government is sort of picking and
choosing them what recommendations they do move forward with that
Royal Commission, and one of those I know is the.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Changes to the Children's Commissioner role.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Now we understand that the legislation is going to change
that will see the Children's Commissioner, some are reporting, become
a race based role. Now, I want to point out
that the person who is currently in that position has
been chosen well and truly before this legislation has been introduced.
She is an Indigenous woman, but very very qualified for

(39:02):
this job and absolutely deserving of that job. So I
want to separate that very much from the discussion that
we're about to have.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Katie I recall and chance he could correct me if
I'm wrong. I recall that the recommendation was for there
to be two commissioners, one of Aboriginal descent and one
of not Aboriginal descent and some other descent which may
or may be Aboriginal but doesn't have to be. So
that was a recommendation. But to just go forward with
one commissioner who must be that means you're legislating a

(39:31):
kind of person to be in a job rather than
putting a person there.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
On queries, I want to ask, is this going to
open us up down the track to potentially sent Well,
it's a precedent, and I don't understand why it's got
to be legislated, like I don't understand what it needs
to be in the actual legislation.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
What happened when we set up that treaty legislation and
had Mick Dodson as the treaty commissioner.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
They named him.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
In the legislation. That's why they couldn't when he had
to move because of inappropriate behavior. That's why they could
only have an acting commissioner because his name was in
the legislation. And it's a very poor thing to put
names and race.

Speaker 8 (40:07):
Question is to provide some truth to this because we
have brought in we've introduced legislation this week around an
amendment to the Children's Commissioner legislation.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Kesier is right, Love Kesy, there were the.

Speaker 8 (40:21):
Recommendation of the Royal Commission to the Protection and Detention
of Young People in the.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Territory did say that there should be two.

Speaker 8 (40:28):
When we looked at it, eighty nine percent of Aboriginal
people in care are Aboriginal children. We were being fiscally responsible.
There's eighty nine percent of kids in care or in
detention are Aboriginal. Now it isn't that they must be Aboriginal,
it is a requirement.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
But what's the difference.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
There is a difference. There is a difference.

Speaker 8 (40:51):
Okay, So in the legislation it is prescribed in there
that Aboriginal people with the tertiary experience and qualifiations and
practice preferred. But if there's not someone there, they're absolutely
a non Indigenous person who has the tertiary skills and
practice gets the job.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Are we potentially opening ourselves up here though too, if
there's not an appropriate Indigenous Territorian to take on that job,
that we're going to end up with somebody from interstate
who is who does have that aboriginality, but doesn't have
the Northern Territory background.

Speaker 8 (41:25):
So when we look at recruitment for commissioners, whether it's
the Children's Commission, of the Anty Discrimination, the Consumer Affairs,
the ombitsman.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
They're jobs that are always every.

Speaker 8 (41:35):
Time nationally advertised. What we're saying is that you certainly,
first and foremost, the safety of children is paramount, and
the qualifications and practice is paramount. If there's not an
Aboriginal person that meets that criteria, and there is a
non Indigenous person who does happy days, they will.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Get the job.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
All right. The big question or the big comments that's
been made this week is Chancey, you've been saying for
a long time that you do not support race based politics,
race based policies.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
But this is based a race based policy.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
Because it's not excluding a race from a job.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
But it's saying that if you are a certain race,
that you're going to be preferred for that role.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
We've got special measures right through the Northern Territory Public Service.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
So is it the same Is it just the same
as that.

Speaker 8 (42:20):
It's basically acknowledging that if there's an original person there
with the skills.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Legislatives, special measures, why not just continue down this path,
like why does it need to be legislated. That's the
question that's being asked, you know.

Speaker 8 (42:32):
Because the way again, it's working through the Royal Commission recommendations.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
And they picking the ones.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
That is one.

Speaker 8 (42:39):
We're working through all of the recommendations that government, the
Northern Territory government can implement.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
Because Katie, the Commonwealth walked.

Speaker 8 (42:45):
Away from the Northern Territory Royal Commission and funding its recommendation.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I know that.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
I certainly I'm not naive in that sense.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
We know that it was called obviously when Adam Giles
was still in power, and hey, we had discussions in
this very studio on the World that was on that.
So I'm certainly not ignoring that. But what people are
concerned about here is that we are setting ourselves up
for race based politics.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
It's not excluding a rape, Katie.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
That sort of happens now anyway with these as chance,
he says. And people in the teaching world will know
this special measures, so and I've known it with my
primary schools. You know, someone will get a job because
of their special measure, which is code for aboriginality and
dissent and still have the stay.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Again, it's not legislator.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
It doesn't happened. They have put people in jobs that
they are not skillful.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
But and the concern here is that legislated. Do you
know what the concern is That it's actually enshrined in legislation,
and that's what people seem to be worried about. But
we are going to have to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. Well, that is nearly
it for us this morning. But I tell you what,
we cannot wrap up the week that was without talking

(43:55):
about the fact that Kisier Puic well, she announced her
retirement yesterday on the show, still in until the August election,
of course.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Still till midnight on the twenty fourth of August, when
the northern churchy people.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Go to the park.

Speaker 6 (44:08):
I think we're talking about yesterday. We'll get your back. Cas.
You're as for dress and deportment, what happened?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
We're dressed nice for people listening. Some of these fellows
in Parliament, not Chancey because he's very dappard he's dressing,
but some of these fellows need a little bit of
assistance with them ties, right, but the ties are not
donemomy hair and makeup. Your tie is not straight, mister
yan Oh, my territory pins a little bit excuse before.

(44:41):
They haven't done the buttons up on the collar to
the shirt.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Somehow we can't.

Speaker 8 (44:46):
You can't just talk about yourself here. Everyone else here
on this panel has to talk about you.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
That's right.

Speaker 8 (44:51):
And there's one thing for sure is Keezy Epiric has
been an amazing and absolutely amazing member of Parliament. She
didn't even pay me.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
To say that. The sixteen years that she's been there.

Speaker 8 (45:04):
I do not know a single person in the rural
area who doesn't say to me we need more people
like Keesiopuric.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Are bloody fight every day on it? Yep.

Speaker 8 (45:13):
I mean I tease there sometimes about it, but you
know this is Kesy has always been a frank and
fearless leader.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
And I love her.

Speaker 8 (45:22):
When she took it up to the Commonwealth when Bloody
Andrews was given.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Us, well, do you know every time she comes on
we get positive feedback for Keziapuric.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
There is no doubt about that. And that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
So you think it's not message team.

Speaker 8 (45:38):
I mean, here's the thing. Don't underestimate Kesi. Epuric will
not be going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
She'll still be around well and you know a Kesier.
I think that no matter what side of the political
spectrum people sit on, they admire the fact that you
speak your mind and you say what you mean. And
I think that that's something that's so incredibly important.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Well, thank you Katie, and thank you Chancey. We'll took
plate about your payment's going to be driving. Yeah, but
it's so bloody hard to get an h on your
drama's license.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
Not allowed to go for right in the back of
the sheep.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
No, you'll be in the you'll be pet uber.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
We are.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Look, we aren't gonna have to wrap up for the morning.
We've got to play the national news. Billy and from
the cl P, thanks so much for your time.

Speaker 6 (46:24):
This week to be here again for the first time
this year.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Katie, great to see you.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Georgie Dickinson from nine News Star and thank you so
much for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Thank you have good bright everyone you.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Too, kezyer Pure Katie and Chancey Paick the Deputy chief finished.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Thank you for your time.

Speaker 8 (46:38):
And Katie Kesey has four sitting weeks left of anti Parliament,
so I hope she's going to stir it up.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the Week that Was