Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
As we have spoken about, we know that this alleged
I'm going to call it alleged carjacking, I may be corrected,
and also stolen cars. The Northern Territory Police have now
revealed that four youths were arrested over this crime spree
that spanned several Darwin suburbs yesterday morning. It is alleged
that they stole a car in Wallagi, then crashed it
(00:21):
a mere head and blocked off the road. Then with
a bicycle. Now, good Samaritans jumped out of the car
to move that bicycle and he's then been threatened with
a machete before having their car stolen and crashing it
in Leanna. Now police and the dog squad hatched a
plan from what I can gather, and managed to apprehend
this group who are expected to be charged except for
(00:43):
an eleven year old who was taken to a responsible adult.
Now in the studio with me this morning is the
acting Assistant Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Sorry I gave you a promotion a little bit earlier
and said you were the acting commissioner acting Assistant commissioner,
but you are going to be acting as commissioner later
in the week, Is that right.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm currently the acting deputy commissioner, Katie. We'll get it
right sometime. It's all good.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I do apologize. I might just call you Martin, so
I don't get that wrong. Now, Can you tell me
a bit more detail about this incident that happened, well,
that culminated I guess yesterday morning in the arrest of
these kids.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So, as you talked through already, the sequence of events
are alleged to have started in will Lagi where a
motor vehicle was stolen. That motor vehicle subsequently crashed in Mewhead,
and as you've alluded to already, another vehicle, a good
Samaradan stopped because there was a bicycle placed on the
road as a decoy, were saying, and as he got
(01:43):
out to have a look at that, that vehicle was
stolen and he was threatened by a group of youth
and they then stole that motor vehicle, which was again
later crashed in Leena and then the youth offenders fled
from that scene. So later that morning, one of our
dog handlers, one of our dedicated dog handlers that was
out actually walking his patrol dog in the vicinity and
(02:06):
he saw a group of sispicious youth in the area,
and he made contact with our Stroke Force Trident who
had already been called on to duty and we're investigating
these matters. He told them that he'd just seen this
group of youth, gave a description, and they said, yep,
that's exactly who we're looking for. And a coordinated response
then resulted in us apprehending all four of those youth.
(02:28):
One of those unfortunately fled and didn't listen to police
commands to stop. He was apprehended by Drax, and the
other three were taken into custody by Stroke Force Trident members.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Now, could I ask, do we have any idea of
the age of the victim, the man who was threatened
with the machete.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm sorry, Katie, No, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I thought i'd ask in terms of then the you know,
the four alleged defenders, so one of them an eleven
year old who was taken home to a responsible adult. Now, Martin,
there's going to be people listening that are quite furious
that somebody of that age firstly is involved in what
(03:08):
I deem quite a horrendous crime. And then you know,
we've got three others as I understand, that are in
police custody. Still, have they been charged.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yet, Yes, Katie, that is the fact.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, the three other youth offenders have been in police
custody that have been charged with a series of offenses
in relation of these solo motor vehicles, and those three
were considered and granted bail. As you spoke about just
a second ago, the eleven year old was taken home
because that eleven year old is below the age of
criminal responsibility.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Do we have any idea how old the other three
offenders were.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I don't have that accurately information, but they are youth Katie,
obviously there over the age of twelve to be charged
by us.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But I don't have that specifics for you at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Now you've been a police officer for a long time.
I mean an incident like this where you've got them
four youths, they've put a decoy on the road, you know,
a bike on the road. They've then by the sounds
of it, you know, I ambush this person with a
machete to us listeners, sounds that sounds really quite violent
and frightening. I mean you're a seasoned police officer, how
(04:15):
does that like? How do you feel about this whole incidents?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It is quite violent and fridening, Katie, and it's just
totally unacceptable behavior.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It shouldn't be tolerated. We won't tolerate it, and we will.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do everything we can to investigate these matters to the
full extent and hold these youth offenders accountable. And that's
what's occurred in the circumstances we've charged them. What I
will do is just call out the efforts of Strike
Force Troden. They're doing some incredible work at the moment
and they are always onto these offenses as soon as
they occur, and they've got a really really good success
rate with their apprehensions and prosecutions. So just to call
(04:48):
out to the team, they're doing fantastic work and they'll
continue to do that fantastic work and try to keep
territory and safe.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
How is it sort of determined then, whether you know,
the three that were there are obviously of an A
they are actually be able to be charged. How is
it then determined whether they get bail or not?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So bail considerations are guided by the there's two parts
of the legislation. There's the Youth Justice on Considerations and
then there's the Bail Act. So there's stringent conditions that
we have to abide by when we're considering that bail,
and that's what would have occurred in these circumstances. So
I don't have the details whether or not they were
released with electronic monitoring, what the bail conditions were, but
(05:27):
there's strict guidelines that our police officers go through before
they make that determination.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Look, I know I can preempt people listening to the
show this morning going how on earth can you ambush
someone with a machete and then end up on bail?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, I know, and I hear those concerns of the public, Katy,
But we work within the legislation parameters that we've got,
and our guys and girls are out there making sure
that these offenders are held accountable and are put before
the course.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Is it frustrating for you guys, you know, apprehending people
so young? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Look, I've got no doubt there's frustration out there amongst
the whole wider police force, and not just in dah
and this is across the territory. We've got these issues
where we we're seeing young people become involved in probably
more violent crime than we have historically seen, and it
is a problem that we've seen and I'm no doubt
that that's frustrating and it's times it could be disheartening
(06:19):
to our members to see those youth continue to behave
in those manners. But what I can assure the public
is that we're really good at our job. The guys
and girls that are out there investigating these matters do
an exceptionally good job and have a really high strike
rate of catching and identifying the offenders in relation of
this offending.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Look, I think people can you know, like people anybody
listening this morning, certainly you know reading through that pressure
as and I'd read it out earlier this morning, you know,
seeing the links that the police are going to even
when you're not on duty to try and keep the
community safe. I think it's really commendable and well done
to the police on being able to, you know, to
apprehend these youths. I'm seeing across the board, not just
(06:59):
here in the territory but also in Queensland. There's a
lot of coverage at the moment about youth crime and
there's actually a lot of coverage in Queensland at the
moment about some police officers being afraid to go to
work because of some of what they are dealing with
when it comes to youth crime and feeling like, you know,
like their hands are tied in some ways. You know,
(07:19):
I'm not expecting you to sort of get into a
political debate about it, but it's a tough juggle right
now for police, Katie.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I think it's not just limited to the northern territory
in Queensland. We talk regularly with our counterparts in Western
Australia and they've got just the same similar issues and
remote Western Australia with the same level of youth offending there.
So it is a problem across Australia. Our counterparts in
Victoria also have similar issues with regards to youth crime.
So it is it is a national problem and it's
a national strategy that police executive leaders across Australia are
(07:50):
getting together and talking about the issues that we all
face in the jurisdictions of being a similar nature.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I mean even in Alice Springs at the moment, you know,
we've seen the report on the front page of the
Australian newspaper about these youths stealing a vehicle and going on,
you know, leading police on a wild goose chase, you know,
and putting themselves at real risk. I think that's the
frightening part here as well, as you're not just putting
the public at danger in danger, but themselves as well.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And this is the point of this, Katie. It's just
idiotic behavior. It's putting the public at danger, it's putting
themselves at danger, and it's putting our police force at risk.
And it's making work that our police officers don't need
because we're flat out attending other offenses, is to chase
these youth committing these stupid offenses that they just don't
need to be doing with no respect for people's property.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now, Acting Deputy Commissioner, I do want to ask you
about this new surve Pro system. It's something that we
spoke about yesterday with the with the Northern Territory Police Association. Now,
they'd raise concerns on the show yesterday about unlawful arrests
happening due to alerts through the new surve Pro system.
Has that been the.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Case, so, Katie, we've done some interrogation in relation to
that information that was ended by Nathan and I can't
confirm figures that he said. But look, from time to time,
our police force makes mistakes, and from time to time
there will be a matter where there's an wrongful arrest,
and that wrongful arrest can be from any manner of things.
(09:18):
But my interrogation and my information at the moment is
that there had been some occurring in January, but that's
not specifically related to the Royal out of Serpro. That
was another issue in relation to the IIJER system, which
is the Integrated Justice Information System which is owned by
the courts, it's not owned by the police, and there
was some difficulties with the iijer system being contemporarily.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Updated, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So we've got to I'd probably get a little bit
technical here, and not the best at the technical either, Katie.
But we've got a platform called our Mobile Data Inquiry Application.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That platform enables us to talk to a lot of
systems in a mobile way, so we can access when
we're out on the road and we can look up
alerts on certain systems when we're out on the road. Now,
there was some difficulty with the integration of MDA and
I that was identified in early January, and that was
(10:15):
closed off and a broadcast was put out to say
that the source of truth when we're arresting somebody on
a warrant is the source system, which is IIS. So
that was recognized back in January, and we put a
temporary measure in place until that link could be fixed.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So from your perspective, that issue has now been rectified,
and you're confident that there's not going to be people
unlawfully arrested.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Look, yes, I am confident, Katie, that our guys and
girls out there are doing as thorough a job as
they can, but they're only as good as the information
that they get off the system. So if that information
is inaccurate, then they're in good faith doing their job
basing their arrest on the information that they're provided. So
I'm confident that that link was switched off in January
(11:00):
and that a solution's being found before that integration is
reintroduced back in so there won't be inaccurate information available
on MDA. But I just is the source of truth
that we go to when we're arresting people on warrants
that are issued by the court.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
All Right, stepping back to Surpro again. One of the
concerns that has been raised is that you know that
I guess when sort of you know, selling the system
as being a good thing to convert to. And let's
be frank, the system that the police were going off,
Promise had been in place for a long long time
and was very old and clunky. But one of the
(11:35):
concerns is that officers aren't sort of able to use
it while they're mobile, so while they're out and about
at this point, is that something that is being worked
on so it can happen.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yes, Katie, so there is a mobility solution being explored,
but I think we've got to remember we couldn't do
that with Promise either. So we've introduced a new system,
so Pro in late November last year, and part of
introducing Surpro was examining and exploring a mobil So now
we've got the ability to take a laptop with four
G and news Zu pro outside of the police station.
(12:07):
But at the moment, it doesn't integrate with the devices
that our police officers use, so mobile phones and iPads.
It's not something that we can update. But we couldn't
do that on Promise either.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Okay, and So are we going to move towards being
able to do that, because I would imagine like it
can be quite burdened, like burdening for the Northern Territory Police.
If you're out on a job, you know you've got
some paperwork to do. If you've then got to go
all the way back to the office or without your
laptop when all of us work off phones and mobile
devices these.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Days, that's right.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So there is work in progress for a mobility solution
into the future and what the best fit that will
be for our officers.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The association said that it is creating administrative errors, is it?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Look?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I think with the introduction of any system, there's a
time that's taken to bed it in. And I'll tell
you a story HARKing back to ninety ninety nine when
we introduce PROMISE, and I remember it very well, as
we went from a paper based information management system to
our first electronic information management system and for twelve months
nobody accepted Promise and said this is a terrible system.
(13:06):
Twenty five years later, we're looking at the same introduction
of a new system and there will be some time
for people to get to use it. We recognize that
more training is required. We're rolling out extra training and
after people have undertaken a little bit more training. Some
of the feedback is positive, But Katie, what I can't
take away from is the fact that it is causing
(13:27):
some pressure to our workforce, is causing some angst among
the workforce, and I'll recognize that.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I'm not going to show away and try and minimize
that at all. We recognize that.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well, look and you know, and I think if there's
some measures in place to try and work through it,
I hope that that does help those officers, you know,
out there working their butts off in different locations so
that they're not having to worry about that admin so much.
It was also claimed on the show yesterday that prosecution
cases are falling over due to electronic briefs? Is that
the case and what's the plan to address spash? So?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Okay, I don't have the information that prosecution cases are
falling over, but what I can say is that the
introduction of the electronic brief has come at a time
of overwhelming pressure on the justice system in general. So
we've got a whole range of the highest number of
people that we've had in custody. Ever, in the Northern Territory,
a huge percentage of those are on remand we've got
(14:21):
very stretched legal services in the Northern Territory and introducing
an electronic brief at a time when they're stretched probably
has caused them some issues in the way that they
deal with business. So we've recognized that and we've accepted
that that's causing pressures to the system. And at the moment,
we're not using the electronic brief anywhere outside of Darwin,
so for the rest of the territory we're still We've
(14:43):
gone back to paper based briefs to hopefully take some
of the pressure off those other agencies that are having
difficulties with it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
One of the other concerns is that some of that
previous data for crime stats that it's not going to
be available. I mean, there has been commentary that you
can't come pay the stats from previous years. But from
what I can see or from what I can gather,
that older data is still there. Is it just harder
to access now.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
That's one hundred percent of the case, Katie. So we
don't own the crime statistics. Agds own the crime statistics,
and there is absolutely no intention to remove or take
away any of the previous data that just wouldn't and
couldn't happen. So that is still available, but there is
some new reporting regimes under sur PRO that I think
everyone's still learning how do we compare that to previous data?
And that's still We're only three months or early three
(15:30):
months into the new system, and things may look a
little bit different with our new crime reporting data, but
we're still getting our heads around some of the reasons
for that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
All right, So it does sound like there's some serious
teething issues. I mean, are we going to be in
a situation of an arthern Territory Police is going to
be in a situation that the Health Department was with
their new IT system Acasia, where it's going to have
to be rolled back, or do you think that you're
going to be able to work through with Surpro.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Look, I don't think we're in the same case as
Akasha Katy, and we really don't want to be turning
off a system that we've just introduced that's already caused
three months worth of banks to our officers. And as
I said, the feedback is overwhelmingly our officers had issues
with the system and they felt unsupported and they felt
it was an extra burden. But we've had some releases
(16:15):
and some patches on the system since it's been released,
and that work is going to continue. And my hope is,
and my actual lived experience, is that people, once we've
done some releases, they've done some extra training, are actually
getting some positive stories back. Now that's not overwhelming the case,
but we are getting some positive stories saying things aren't
as bad as they were initially. Look, and I hope,
(16:36):
my genuine hope is that we do get there. But
I just asked the police force out there to bear
with us while we are still rolling out, you know,
and trying to get this system perfect.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Well. Look, I know we do have plenty of police
officers that listen to the show, and I know for
some of our listeners you might be thinking, oh, come on, Wolfe,
why do we care about this it system for the police.
But it's more making sure that our police have those
tools to be able to do their jobs, you know,
to hopefully be able to do them. And it's not
too big a burden. Now, before I let you go,
Acting Deputy Commission, I do just want to ask, and
(17:08):
I know that the police sort of don't. You know,
you're not going to want to go into specifics, But
there has been concerns raised around the amount of time
that it took for MLA Josh Burgoin to be charged
this week. Is it normal for a traffic investigation to
take six months and for people to not hear from
the police for that period.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, Katie, I don't know if it's normal, but I
wouldn't say that that's unusual. And it just depends on
the individual circumstance. So I can't go into the details
of this matter because it's now sub judics, it's before
the court, and I can't talk about the details around it.
But I heard Nathan talk yesterday about some of the
technicalities that have to be considered when we're considering bringing
(17:50):
a matter before the court, and they do exist. So normal, no,
but not unusual, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And I mean, does it sort of demonstrate that there
is quite a bit of burden on the police in
terms of just how much work you've got to get through.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, I think that's that's obvious, Katie.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I think anybody that's been in the territory for
any lengthen time at the moment knows the pressure that
our police force is under.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The amount of incidents.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That we go to has escalator tripled in the last
five years, and that's evidenced by the prisons at the moment.
We've got the highest populations that we've ever had in
corrections at the moment, and our guys and girls out
there every day busting their guts to serve the community
are under a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
They just on the prisons overflowing. We did speak to
the Corrections Commissioner about this, and just a really quick one.
There's obviously there's prisoners in the watch houses at the
moment too, isn't there's correct I mean, is that placing
extra burden on you guys or are there correctional staff
to deal with that?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Absolutely, that's pleasing pressure on us, Katie, it is.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean are they like you said in
alisand here.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
In Darwat Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So in Darwin the Darmon Watchhouse is actually operated by
Corrections now, so it's an additional mini prison that they've got.
The capacity in Alice Springs numbers fluctuate on a day
to day basis, but we get some assistance from Corrections
when they're able to help staff the watchhouse in Alice Springs.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Gee wiez. It just means there's, you know, more work
for the police. Look, I know everybody appreciates the work
that our Northern Territory Police officers do, so thank you
very much for your time this morning, Acting Deputy Commissioner
Martin Dole.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Thank you, Katie, Thank you.
As we have spoken about, we know that this alleged
I'm going to call it alleged carjacking, I may be corrected,
and also stolen cars. The Northern Territory Police have now
revealed that four youths were arrested over this crime spree
that spanned several Darwin suburbs yesterday morning. It is alleged
that they stole a car in Wallagi, then crashed it
(00:21):
a mere head and blocked off the road. Then with
a bicycle. Now, good Samaritans jumped out of the car
to move that bicycle and he's then been threatened with
a machete before having their car stolen and crashing it
in Leanna. Now police and the dog squad hatched a
plan from what I can gather, and managed to apprehend
this group who are expected to be charged except for
(00:43):
an eleven year old who was taken to a responsible adult.
Now in the studio with me this morning is the
acting Assistant Police Commissioner Martin Dole. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Sorry I gave you a promotion a little bit earlier
and said you were the acting commissioner acting Assistant commissioner,
but you are going to be acting as commissioner later
in the week, Is that right.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I'm currently the acting deputy commissioner, Katie. We'll get it
right sometime. It's all good.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I do apologize. I might just call you Martin, so
I don't get that wrong. Now, Can you tell me
a bit more detail about this incident that happened, well,
that culminated I guess yesterday morning in the arrest of
these kids.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So, as you talked through already, the sequence of events
are alleged to have started in will Lagi where a
motor vehicle was stolen. That motor vehicle subsequently crashed in Mewhead,
and as you've alluded to already, another vehicle, a good
Samaradan stopped because there was a bicycle placed on the
road as a decoy, were saying, and as he got
(01:43):
out to have a look at that, that vehicle was
stolen and he was threatened by a group of youth
and they then stole that motor vehicle, which was again
later crashed in Leena and then the youth offenders fled
from that scene. So later that morning, one of our
dog handlers, one of our dedicated dog handlers that was
out actually walking his patrol dog in the vicinity and
(02:06):
he saw a group of sispicious youth in the area,
and he made contact with our Stroke Force Trident who
had already been called on to duty and we're investigating
these matters. He told them that he'd just seen this
group of youth, gave a description, and they said, yep,
that's exactly who we're looking for. And a coordinated response
then resulted in us apprehending all four of those youth.
(02:28):
One of those unfortunately fled and didn't listen to police
commands to stop. He was apprehended by Drax, and the
other three were taken into custody by Stroke Force Trident members.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Now, could I ask, do we have any idea of
the age of the victim, the man who was threatened
with the machete.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I'm sorry, Katie, No, that's all right.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I thought i'd ask in terms of then the you know,
the four alleged defenders, so one of them an eleven
year old who was taken home to a responsible adult. Now, Martin,
there's going to be people listening that are quite furious
that somebody of that age firstly is involved in what
(03:08):
I deem quite a horrendous crime. And then you know,
we've got three others as I understand, that are in
police custody. Still, have they been charged.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yet, Yes, Katie, that is the fact.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, the three other youth offenders have been in police
custody that have been charged with a series of offenses
in relation of these solo motor vehicles, and those three
were considered and granted bail. As you spoke about just
a second ago, the eleven year old was taken home
because that eleven year old is below the age of
criminal responsibility.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Do we have any idea how old the other three
offenders were.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I don't have that accurately information, but they are youth Katie,
obviously there over the age of twelve to be charged
by us.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But I don't have that specifics for you at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Now you've been a police officer for a long time.
I mean an incident like this where you've got them
four youths, they've put a decoy on the road, you know,
a bike on the road. They've then by the sounds
of it, you know, I ambush this person with a
machete to us listeners, sounds that sounds really quite violent
and frightening. I mean you're a seasoned police officer, how
(04:15):
does that like? How do you feel about this whole incidents?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It is quite violent and fridening, Katie, and it's just
totally unacceptable behavior.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It shouldn't be tolerated. We won't tolerate it, and we will.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Do everything we can to investigate these matters to the
full extent and hold these youth offenders accountable. And that's
what's occurred in the circumstances we've charged them. What I
will do is just call out the efforts of Strike
Force Troden. They're doing some incredible work at the moment
and they are always onto these offenses as soon as
they occur, and they've got a really really good success
rate with their apprehensions and prosecutions. So just to call
(04:48):
out to the team, they're doing fantastic work and they'll
continue to do that fantastic work and try to keep
territory and safe.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
How is it sort of determined then, whether you know,
the three that were there are obviously of an A
they are actually be able to be charged. How is
it then determined whether they get bail or not?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So bail considerations are guided by the there's two parts
of the legislation. There's the Youth Justice on Considerations and
then there's the Bail Act. So there's stringent conditions that
we have to abide by when we're considering that bail,
and that's what would have occurred in these circumstances. So
I don't have the details whether or not they were
released with electronic monitoring, what the bail conditions were, but
(05:27):
there's strict guidelines that our police officers go through before
they make that determination.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Look, I know I can preempt people listening to the
show this morning going how on earth can you ambush
someone with a machete and then end up on bail?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, I know, and I hear those concerns of the public, Katy,
But we work within the legislation parameters that we've got,
and our guys and girls are out there making sure
that these offenders are held accountable and are put before
the course.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Is it frustrating for you guys, you know, apprehending people
so young? Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Look, I've got no doubt there's frustration out there amongst
the whole wider police force, and not just in dah
and this is across the territory. We've got these issues
where we we're seeing young people become involved in probably
more violent crime than we have historically seen, and it
is a problem that we've seen and I'm no doubt
that that's frustrating and it's times it could be disheartening
(06:19):
to our members to see those youth continue to behave
in those manners. But what I can assure the public
is that we're really good at our job. The guys
and girls that are out there investigating these matters do
an exceptionally good job and have a really high strike
rate of catching and identifying the offenders in relation of
this offending.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Look, I think people can you know, like people anybody
listening this morning, certainly you know reading through that pressure
as and I'd read it out earlier this morning, you know,
seeing the links that the police are going to even
when you're not on duty to try and keep the
community safe. I think it's really commendable and well done
to the police on being able to, you know, to
apprehend these youths. I'm seeing across the board, not just
(06:59):
here in the territory but also in Queensland. There's a
lot of coverage at the moment about youth crime and
there's actually a lot of coverage in Queensland at the
moment about some police officers being afraid to go to
work because of some of what they are dealing with
when it comes to youth crime and feeling like, you know,
like their hands are tied in some ways. You know,
(07:19):
I'm not expecting you to sort of get into a
political debate about it, but it's a tough juggle right
now for police, Katie.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
I think it's not just limited to the northern territory
in Queensland. We talk regularly with our counterparts in Western
Australia and they've got just the same similar issues and
remote Western Australia with the same level of youth offending there.
So it is a problem across Australia. Our counterparts in
Victoria also have similar issues with regards to youth crime.
So it is it is a national problem and it's
a national strategy that police executive leaders across Australia are
(07:50):
getting together and talking about the issues that we all
face in the jurisdictions of being a similar nature.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I mean even in Alice Springs at the moment, you know,
we've seen the report on the front page of the
Australian newspaper about these youths stealing a vehicle and going on,
you know, leading police on a wild goose chase, you know,
and putting themselves at real risk. I think that's the
frightening part here as well, as you're not just putting
the public at danger in danger, but themselves as well.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And this is the point of this, Katie. It's just
idiotic behavior. It's putting the public at danger, it's putting
themselves at danger, and it's putting our police force at risk.
And it's making work that our police officers don't need
because we're flat out attending other offenses, is to chase
these youth committing these stupid offenses that they just don't
need to be doing with no respect for people's property.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Now, Acting Deputy Commissioner, I do want to ask you
about this new surve Pro system. It's something that we
spoke about yesterday with the with the Northern Territory Police Association. Now,
they'd raise concerns on the show yesterday about unlawful arrests
happening due to alerts through the new surve Pro system.
Has that been the.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Case, so, Katie, we've done some interrogation in relation to
that information that was ended by Nathan and I can't
confirm figures that he said. But look, from time to time,
our police force makes mistakes, and from time to time
there will be a matter where there's an wrongful arrest,
and that wrongful arrest can be from any manner of things.
(09:18):
But my interrogation and my information at the moment is
that there had been some occurring in January, but that's
not specifically related to the Royal out of Serpro. That
was another issue in relation to the IIJER system, which
is the Integrated Justice Information System which is owned by
the courts, it's not owned by the police, and there
was some difficulties with the iijer system being contemporarily.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Updated, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So we've got to I'd probably get a little bit
technical here, and not the best at the technical either, Katie.
But we've got a platform called our Mobile Data Inquiry Application.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That platform enables us to talk to a lot of
systems in a mobile way, so we can access when
we're out on the road and we can look up
alerts on certain systems when we're out on the road. Now,
there was some difficulty with the integration of MDA and
I that was identified in early January, and that was
(10:15):
closed off and a broadcast was put out to say
that the source of truth when we're arresting somebody on
a warrant is the source system, which is IIS. So
that was recognized back in January, and we put a
temporary measure in place until that link could be fixed.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So from your perspective, that issue has now been rectified,
and you're confident that there's not going to be people
unlawfully arrested.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Look, yes, I am confident, Katie, that our guys and
girls out there are doing as thorough a job as
they can, but they're only as good as the information
that they get off the system. So if that information
is inaccurate, then they're in good faith doing their job
basing their arrest on the information that they're provided. So
I'm confident that that link was switched off in January
(11:00):
and that a solution's being found before that integration is
reintroduced back in so there won't be inaccurate information available
on MDA. But I just is the source of truth
that we go to when we're arresting people on warrants
that are issued by the court.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
All Right, stepping back to Surpro again. One of the
concerns that has been raised is that you know that
I guess when sort of you know, selling the system
as being a good thing to convert to. And let's
be frank, the system that the police were going off,
Promise had been in place for a long long time
and was very old and clunky. But one of the
(11:35):
concerns is that officers aren't sort of able to use
it while they're mobile, so while they're out and about
at this point, is that something that is being worked
on so it can happen.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yes, Katie, so there is a mobility solution being explored,
but I think we've got to remember we couldn't do
that with Promise either. So we've introduced a new system,
so Pro in late November last year, and part of
introducing Surpro was examining and exploring a mobil So now
we've got the ability to take a laptop with four
G and news Zu pro outside of the police station.
(12:07):
But at the moment, it doesn't integrate with the devices
that our police officers use, so mobile phones and iPads.
It's not something that we can update. But we couldn't
do that on Promise either.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Okay, and So are we going to move towards being
able to do that, because I would imagine like it
can be quite burdened, like burdening for the Northern Territory Police.
If you're out on a job, you know you've got
some paperwork to do. If you've then got to go
all the way back to the office or without your
laptop when all of us work off phones and mobile
devices these.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Days, that's right.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
So there is work in progress for a mobility solution
into the future and what the best fit that will
be for our officers.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
The association said that it is creating administrative errors, is it?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Look?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I think with the introduction of any system, there's a
time that's taken to bed it in. And I'll tell
you a story HARKing back to ninety ninety nine when
we introduce PROMISE, and I remember it very well, as
we went from a paper based information management system to
our first electronic information management system and for twelve months
nobody accepted Promise and said this is a terrible system.
(13:06):
Twenty five years later, we're looking at the same introduction
of a new system and there will be some time
for people to get to use it. We recognize that
more training is required. We're rolling out extra training and
after people have undertaken a little bit more training. Some
of the feedback is positive, But Katie, what I can't
take away from is the fact that it is causing
(13:27):
some pressure to our workforce, is causing some angst among
the workforce, and I'll recognize that.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I'm not going to show away and try and minimize
that at all. We recognize that.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Well, look and you know, and I think if there's
some measures in place to try and work through it,
I hope that that does help those officers, you know,
out there working their butts off in different locations so
that they're not having to worry about that admin so much.
It was also claimed on the show yesterday that prosecution
cases are falling over due to electronic briefs? Is that
the case and what's the plan to address spash? So?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Okay, I don't have the information that prosecution cases are
falling over, but what I can say is that the
introduction of the electronic brief has come at a time
of overwhelming pressure on the justice system in general. So
we've got a whole range of the highest number of
people that we've had in custody. Ever, in the Northern Territory,
a huge percentage of those are on remand we've got
(14:21):
very stretched legal services in the Northern Territory and introducing
an electronic brief at a time when they're stretched probably
has caused them some issues in the way that they
deal with business. So we've recognized that and we've accepted
that that's causing pressures to the system. And at the moment,
we're not using the electronic brief anywhere outside of Darwin,
so for the rest of the territory we're still We've
(14:43):
gone back to paper based briefs to hopefully take some
of the pressure off those other agencies that are having
difficulties with it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
One of the other concerns is that some of that
previous data for crime stats that it's not going to
be available. I mean, there has been commentary that you
can't come pay the stats from previous years. But from
what I can see or from what I can gather,
that older data is still there. Is it just harder
to access now.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
That's one hundred percent of the case, Katie. So we
don't own the crime statistics. Agds own the crime statistics,
and there is absolutely no intention to remove or take
away any of the previous data that just wouldn't and
couldn't happen. So that is still available, but there is
some new reporting regimes under sur PRO that I think
everyone's still learning how do we compare that to previous data?
And that's still We're only three months or early three
(15:30):
months into the new system, and things may look a
little bit different with our new crime reporting data, but
we're still getting our heads around some of the reasons
for that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
All right, So it does sound like there's some serious
teething issues. I mean, are we going to be in
a situation of an arthern Territory Police is going to
be in a situation that the Health Department was with
their new IT system Acasia, where it's going to have
to be rolled back, or do you think that you're
going to be able to work through with Surpro.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Look, I don't think we're in the same case as
Akasha Katy, and we really don't want to be turning
off a system that we've just introduced that's already caused
three months worth of banks to our officers. And as
I said, the feedback is overwhelmingly our officers had issues
with the system and they felt unsupported and they felt
it was an extra burden. But we've had some releases
(16:15):
and some patches on the system since it's been released,
and that work is going to continue. And my hope is,
and my actual lived experience, is that people, once we've
done some releases, they've done some extra training, are actually
getting some positive stories back. Now that's not overwhelming the case,
but we are getting some positive stories saying things aren't
as bad as they were initially. Look, and I hope,
(16:36):
my genuine hope is that we do get there. But
I just asked the police force out there to bear
with us while we are still rolling out, you know,
and trying to get this system perfect.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Well. Look, I know we do have plenty of police
officers that listen to the show, and I know for
some of our listeners you might be thinking, oh, come on, Wolfe,
why do we care about this it system for the police.
But it's more making sure that our police have those
tools to be able to do their jobs, you know,
to hopefully be able to do them. And it's not
too big a burden. Now, before I let you go,
Acting Deputy Commission, I do just want to ask, and
(17:08):
I know that the police sort of don't. You know,
you're not going to want to go into specifics, But
there has been concerns raised around the amount of time
that it took for MLA Josh Burgoin to be charged
this week. Is it normal for a traffic investigation to
take six months and for people to not hear from
the police for that period.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, Katie, I don't know if it's normal, but I
wouldn't say that that's unusual. And it just depends on
the individual circumstance. So I can't go into the details
of this matter because it's now sub judics, it's before
the court, and I can't talk about the details around it.
But I heard Nathan talk yesterday about some of the
technicalities that have to be considered when we're considering bringing
(17:50):
a matter before the court, and they do exist. So normal, no,
but not unusual, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And I mean, does it sort of demonstrate that there
is quite a bit of burden on the police in
terms of just how much work you've got to get through.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, I think that's that's obvious, Katie.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And I think anybody that's been in the territory for
any lengthen time at the moment knows the pressure that
our police force is under.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The amount of incidents.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
That we go to has escalator tripled in the last
five years, and that's evidenced by the prisons at the moment.
We've got the highest populations that we've ever had in
corrections at the moment, and our guys and girls out
there every day busting their guts to serve the community
are under a lot of pressure.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
They just on the prisons overflowing. We did speak to
the Corrections Commissioner about this, and just a really quick one.
There's obviously there's prisoners in the watch houses at the
moment too, isn't there's correct I mean, is that placing
extra burden on you guys or are there correctional staff
to deal with that?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Absolutely, that's pleasing pressure on us, Katie, it is.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean are they like you said in
alisand here.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
In Darwat Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
So in Darwin the Darmon Watchhouse is actually operated by
Corrections now, so it's an additional mini prison that they've got.
The capacity in Alice Springs numbers fluctuate on a day
to day basis, but we get some assistance from Corrections
when they're able to help staff the watchhouse in Alice Springs.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Gee wiez. It just means there's, you know, more work
for the police. Look, I know everybody appreciates the work
that our Northern Territory Police officers do, so thank you
very much for your time this morning, Acting Deputy Commissioner
Martin Dole.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Thank you, Katie, Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!