The Week That Was – 23rd February 2024

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it is certainly going to be well listened to
this morning. I've no doubt about it because there has
been a lot to cover off this week and in
the studio with me today for the week that was,
We've got the colps Mary Claire Boothby, Good morning to you,
Good morning Katie, and to your listeners. Well from the
rural area. We have got the independent member for Goid,
Kezia Puric. Good morning to Eu Keezier, God's own country,

(00:21):
the rulers, God's own country and she's a woman. Morning
Bush people. We have got Nari r kid for the
Labour Party, Minister for Territory Families and various other portfolios.
Good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Nari, Morning Katie, morning listeners, and.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
From the Northern Territory News making his debut this morning,
Alex Tracy, Good morning to you, Alex.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Good morning Katie, Good morning all.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Lovely to have you on the show. Now we are
going to kick off. There's been a lot to cover
off on this week. There's been a huge amount to
cover off on in fact, but I am going to
kick off with the situation around Josh Burgoyne now charged
Braitling MLA Josh Burgoyne is going to remain on the
colp's front bench convicted of a careless driving charge. That

(01:02):
is what the COLP leader has confirmed now defending those claims,
the opposition had shown double standards in how they handled
the aftermath of the crash that led to the charges
being laid on Monday. The opposition leader Lea Finocchio had
said that mister Burgoyne would retain his shadow portfolios if convicted.
Now what we know is he was driving a private

(01:24):
car with his pregnant wife Lisa when that crash occurred
in Alice Springs in August. Two remote health workers in
the other vehicle are understood to have suffered broken bones
in the smash. On Monday, well, mister Burgoyne was charged
with keyless driving causing serious harm after news emerged last
week that police were investigating the incident. Murray Claire, it

(01:45):
sounds as though the CLP is standing by their man.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
That's right, Katie, and I think that your listeners would
appreciate that. You know, there was a car accident and
Josh Berglin was involved, and as soon as you know,
John found out that that was going to and eventuate
where there was a charge. He came forward in the
front of the media the following day, Lea, the leader
did as well, and she answered all of the questions.

(02:09):
There were lots of them. But I think, like I said,
I think people can appreciate that it is a car accident.
There is a process that's now going ahead, and Josh
will comply with that process and it will go through
the courts.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Nari, do you think that's good enough? I mean, the
VCLP was incredibly critical of the Labor Party last week
around the Chancey Paike Shares fiasco. They were calling on
you guys to be open and transparent. Do you think
they can continue to do that when some felt that
they were being anything but.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
Absolutely, Katie, and you nailed it on the head. So
I guess it's a case for Lea as a leader
of the opposition, as do as I say, not as
I do.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
So you know, accidents do happen, and we all no
one understand that, and.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
Of course our the entire territory is always hoping that
everybody can come out of an accident relatively unscathed. You know,
Josh has been charged now and the process will be undertaken.
But the fact of the matter is that the opposition
leader has been, you know, directly aiming at my government
to be open and transparent.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
She was anything. But so you know, again, do as
I say, not as I do.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Cazier, what do you make of the whole situation.

Speaker 6 (03:17):
Well, it's a regrettable incident, of course it is, and
I'm glad that the all people involved, including the people
who had to go to hospital, you know, on the
road to recovery, et cetera. Probably, in hindsight, Josh could
have made a public statement or just put something. I
mean he said he led his leader Leah Nakierra know,
and that's appropriate because it will generate publicity potentially.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
But I think let the court do its thing.

Speaker 6 (03:40):
And personally, yes, I don't think he should lose any
of his shadow portfolios. I mean, the incident is not
related to his job per se and how he goes
about his business. But I think the people out there,
you know, would recognize that it has been an accident.
He's going to be held to account for if he
was in the wrong. And people are tired of politicians
talking about politicians. I mean, the police off, just move on.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
The police often say that you know, it's not an accident,
it's a crash, and that is generally because somebody has
broken a road rule for that incident to occur, not.

Speaker 6 (04:10):
Necessarily broken a road rule, because things can just happen accidents.
For every accident that we are involved, if in life,
you should be able to find about six to ten
contributing factors. So unless you sit down with Josh and
find out exactly how he was that day, his wife,
the sunset, the sun, the moon, the shadows, whatever, you know,
there are more than one thing that contributed to that crash.
So it was a crash, but it was an accident.

(04:32):
It was an incident.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Call it what you want. He's car crashed into another car.
And look, at the end of the day, you know,
you're innocent until proven guilty. I guess, aren't you, Alex?
But do you reckon that? It's an interesting situation that
Leofanocchiro is saying that she is going to stand by him,
you know, regardless of what happens through that court process.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Oh look, I'm probably in Kesyer's camp with this. I
think you know, the courts typically treat driving incidents where,
you know, as not that additional level of possible culpability
as in you know, drugs or alcohol. If it's sort
of a moment of inattention sort of thing, I think

(05:12):
the courts do typically treat that somewhat differently. So I
think under those circumstances, it's fair enough to stick by
him regardless of the outcome.

Speaker 6 (05:25):
I mean, there's no doubt there was something that went
wrong because and his car crashed into another car and
two people were seriously hurt that needed hospitalization, and that
would have been very scary for those two people who
are coming back from a bushtom. So that's why he's
probably clearly not a lawyer or a police person. That's
clearly why he's been charged because something he did caused
two other people to get badly hurt, and so he

(05:46):
has to be held to account for that, and he
will be and you.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Know, look, that's the whole point of a court process,
right He's going to be going through that process, and
I'm sure that some of those questions that remain unanswered
at this point in time will be answered. But were
sort of you know, some I've got to say, there
wasn't a lot of you know, like a lot of
our listeners were not as upset about this situation as

(06:10):
what they were with the Chancey Paik shares situation. Now, Alex,
you wrote a fairly strong opinion piece about this on
the weekend, and and you know, I thought sort of
hit the nail on the head that you know that, like,
there's still questions about why on earth he'd purchased those shares.
So I know that they're two very different scenarios.

Speaker 6 (06:28):
But that's why they were recommended for him to purchase,
because he kept saying there was a financial Well yeah, he'd.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Said that the financial advisor had given home advice to
purchase shares. But I don't think any financial advisor would
tell you which exact shares to buy. I don't think
they're allowed to do this. Yes they are, really absolutely.
My financial controller will tell you, by these in met cash.

Speaker 6 (06:48):
Oh no, no, no, by these shares they're going to rise.
This is what's happening to the company.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
But you'd have to ask why on earth you'd be
buying them in met cash right, return return on investment.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
That financial advisor should be fire because it subsequently turned
out that mister Pike bought at the absolute peak of
the cycle, and then the metcash began a sort of
long slow descent, So it was a pretty bum investment,
as it turns out. But look, I think I think

(07:18):
why there's perhaps been a bit more public sympathy or
it's not been quite as controversial with mister Burgoyne is
I think people can see themselves getting in that own
situation in a moment of inattention and you've you've seriously
hurt someone. We all drive cars, whereas not all of

(07:41):
us own shares, and certainly not all of us have
our hands on the levers of power. So I think
that's why the public has sort of taken two different
views of these competing.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Associations jet well. And that's certainly even today what we're
hearing and what we're seeing on the text line, people saying,
perhaps you should mention this morning that Chancey didn't accidentally
buy those shares whereas Josh's car crash was an accident.
It's a huge difference, you know, that's the kind of
sentiment I suppose that people have got two these two scenarios.
You know, no matter what I suppose, they're both going to.

(08:17):
Both of these situations I think are going to linger
for both the government and the opposition throughout an election year, right,
I can see right from the get go, things are
getting messy, things are getting dirty, and we're like, how
many months out, We're a lot from orginally important, Katie.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
I mean later in August, territorians are going to have
a really important choice to make and they will be
deciding the territory's future. And just like Josh and our
whole team, you know, I'm focused on territorians and the
things that they are talking about, because we really do
have the best days ahead.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Of us, and we'll get to some of those things
in a couple of moments before we do. Though. The
Police Minister Brent Potter, well, he's been referred to the
IKAK over comments that he made about that ongoing police
investigation into Josh Burgoyne. Robin Lambley of course making that
referral to IKAK on Monday, confirming that she had and

(09:09):
said she had forarded a copy to the Police Commissioner,
Michael Murphy. So, I mean, I don't know, do we
think that that Brent Potter's comments were Do we think
that he had inside knowledge or do we think that
they were clunky? What? You know, what's the consensus here, Katie.

Speaker 6 (09:26):
I it's not the first time the Member for Aralwin
has referred people to IK. I think she said she
was going to refer Chance. He paid last year the
year before because a relative of his work somewhere and
they got some government funding.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
He's been referred again for this.

Speaker 6 (09:43):
Brent Fodders Potter's been referred to IK for saying something
on the radio about something. You know, it's trivializing the
IKK and what the IK was meant to be all about.
Heck has her own play thing almost is it.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Though, or is it actually highlighting some behavior that shouldn't
be happening, or questioning whether it should be or shouldn't be.

Speaker 6 (10:09):
What's the point of sending a note to the police
commissioner about what Brent Potter said on the police Commissioner's
not Brent Potter's boss.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well, look, I don't know, but I guess the point
is that you know, or the insinuation may be that
Brent was privy to some kind of information prior to others.

Speaker 6 (10:26):
You certainly hope on it's an operational matter the police,
if you know, they're going to do whatever they're going
to do to charge mister Burgenoy, and then for the
police wus to bring up the Minister's office and say
oh this is what's happened with this other member of
parliament that just doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
And then as questioning the integrity of the Police Commissioner.

Speaker 5 (10:42):
I can completely agree here's here and I think instead
of the Member for Ara Lewin reporting all and sundry
and starting to become a bit of a public nuisance
for the IKAK and I apologize on behalf of the
Northern Territory Legislative Assembly ask for a briefing. If you
want to know the intermachinations of how a department works
at arms length from the Minister for Police, you should
be contacting Brent Potter's office and seeking that. But also

(11:02):
the fact that the IKAC Commissioner and the office had
to send out a reminder to all parliamentarians to say
please do not use us as a bit of a
political football and a reminder that in an election year
a lot of politicians use that as their toy thing
well ports against others.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
That is completely unacceptable.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I know that not everybody, not everybody will agree with
the things that Robin Lamley does, but I certainly would
say that she always stands up for what she thinks
is right and stands up for the community, and I
think that it's fair enough for some of those questions
to be asked. You know, there are questions asked many
years ago of Michael Gunner and the charging of Zach
Rolf at that time, many years ago. So I think

(11:41):
that it's I do think that it is entirely acceptable
for questions to be raised. And we know again I'll
refer to it being an election year that there's sometimes,
you know, some games that are played the people question.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
The reason the Member for aral Lewin has referred to
AKAK instead of say, bring it into a parliament entry
committee or something like that is because every time any
of the parliamentary members try and bring something into Parliament,
the Labor government just shut it down. And so I
don't know the exact reasons as to why she didn't
do that over I CAAK, but that is an option

(12:14):
that is available.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
And on that day when.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
The Police Minister stepped out to do media, he knew
so much more than what Josh had known at that time,
and he made those he made those innuendos and a
lot of commentary. And I believe that questions should be
asked and if Memapharralone feels she can't take into parliament
because then it becomes political, then Ikak is the right
avenue to go down.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Well, look, we're going to take a quick break. When
we come back. There is a lot to discuss, and
not so much about politicians, but more about what is
impacting territorians. If you have just joined us, we've got
Marie clear boothby Kezier Puric, nari ar Kit and Alex
Tracy from the Into News on the show Now on
Monday night, a sequence of criminal events unfolded it across

(13:00):
several suburbs, is what the Northern Territory Police have said,
resulting in the arrest of four individuals by the police
earlier in the week. Now, this incident was initiated in
Wolagi where vehicle was stolen and crashed in Mewrehead. The
suspects intentionally obstructed the road in Meurehead, strategically placing a
bicycle in the middle of the road. Now, when a

(13:22):
good Samaritan attempted to clear the road, the group threatened
the driver with a machete before fleeing his vehicle. In
his vehicle, I should say, leading to another crash in
Leanna Now, an off duty police dog handler, identified the
alleged defenders in Wonguri and collaborated with members of Strikeforce
Trident to develop an apprehension plan. Upon police presence, that

(13:45):
group attempted to escape on foot, leading to a pursuit
through Casarina, despite disregarding instructions to stop. One individual was
apprehended by patrol dog Drax, while the remaining were apprehended
by members of Strikeforce Trident. Among the four arrested individuals,
one is an eleven year old who was returned home
to a responsible adult. The remaining three youth offenders were

(14:08):
expected to be charged. In fact, I've got a little
bit of audio from you for you from Martin Dole,
who is indeed the acting Deputy Commissioner. Take a listen
to wash, Martin Dole told us earlier in the week.
The four alleged defenders, so one of them an eleven
year old who was taken home to a responsible adult.

(14:29):
Now you know, Martin, there's going to be people listening
that are quite furious that somebody of that age firstly
is involved in what I deem quite a horrendous crime.
And then you know, we've got three others as I understand,
that are in police custody still have they been charged yet.

Speaker 7 (14:49):
The three other youth offenders have been in police custody
that have been charged with a series of offenses in
relation of these solomonor vehicles, and those three were considered
and granted bail. As you I spoke about just a
second ago, the eleven year old was taken home because
that eleven year old is below the age of criminal responsibility.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Do we have any idea how old the other three
offenders were.

Speaker 7 (15:11):
I don't have that accurately information, but they are youth Katie.
Obviously there over the age of twelve to be charged
by us, but I don't have that specifics for you
at the moment.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
So they were bailed. He didn't have the specifics as
to whether they were going to have ankle monitoring or
exactly what would go on. But you know, people were
questioning on the show on what I think it was
Wednesday morning. We were talking about it, what do you
need to do to not be bailed? You know, what
kind of do you have to commission how to use?
And that's right, and that's what people started to question.

(15:41):
Now I did go into further detail about how it
is determined whether you are bailed with the Acting Deputy
Police Commissioner, and he said that they are working within
the legislative frameworks which they are given. They have to
work very strictly within that legislative framework. Now, no one
is suggesting that every child under the AA of whatever

(16:01):
is sent to jail, but you are talking about a
really serious incident here where somebody has been deliberately ambushed
with a machete and to the public it's actential for
serious harm. That's right.

Speaker 6 (16:17):
I heard that interview with the police gentleman, and he
is quite correct. They're operating within the legislation as it
stands now, so that is the BAOL Act and whatever
else he was used, but particularly the BAOL Act. Now,
whether they get an ankle bracelet or not, I don't know,
but I know that the COLP has said on numerous
times they're looking to change the BIOL Act such that

(16:39):
these can't for this kind of serious offense, which is
obviously a weapon. I mean they should be charged under
the Weapons Act as well. Don't forget Katie, because that's
a I think a machete is a controlled weapon because
it's used in farming, so there could be multiple charges
laid upon those children, apart from like you said, putting
a decoy down to deliberately entrapment, you know, offensive dangerous

(17:00):
weapon in public, you know, threatened to harm, all that
sort of stuff, feft the motivehicle whatever. So I think
it comes down to the police have got a piece
of legislation and they've got to work within that and
that's what he's saying, the BIOL Act. And then of
course the magistrates, sorry the judge has to work with
that piece of legislation as well. So really we need
to look at the BAOL Act to see how those
three people, young people, young punks got out and they

(17:22):
are on the streets again right now as we speak.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
You go to Maria, Yeah, and Casier and Katie. I
from what I'm hearing from the community, like there's absolute
outrage about this because what they're saying is what is
it going to take.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
What's it going to take for.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
The Territory Labor government to actually realize that so many
people are living in fear because of this youth crime
crisis that we've got. I mean, these these young people.

Speaker 6 (17:46):
We've already had two deaths excelebrity and the young Bangladeshi
student both killed.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, these young people, what.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Does it take? What more does it take? How many
more have to die?

Speaker 4 (17:54):
Exactly casier? And you know, for all Labour's promises about
programs and wrap around services, I mean, where were these programs?
Then they reduced the age of commund of responsibility? That
what have downe the law so that people just get
away with it? For the eleven year old to be
dropped home to a responsible adult, I mean, what is
the definition of a responsible adult? If my eleven year
old was out with a machete carjacking, then I would

(18:17):
absolutely want to know about it and I would have
to rethink my parenting skills because that is atrocious. Our
community is absolutely outraged and all of the talk and
crap that the Labor government's spin about the work they're doing,
and this is just not good enough.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Well, Narri, I mean, you are the minister that's responsible
for territory families. Can you explain to us what he
is deemed a responsible adult that children are drop time to.
Because we hear this term really very often. It's something
that I think a lot of members of the community
are starting to question.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Excuse me, Katie, Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
And hearing about this serious incident was absolutely heartbreaking and terrifying.
I can only imagine, as we all can, what that
person felt or when they went through this serious situation,
and that is absolutely not okay.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
The fact that they are four young.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
Territorians is absolutely devastating and heartbreaking, and so in regards
to a responsible adult that is deemed by the people
who were in charge at that time to make sure,
like Mary Claire said, if you have an eleven year
old who was out there doing really, really bad and
dangerous things, you should be rethinking your parenting. And that
is exactly what my Department of Terror Tory Families undertakes.

(19:23):
And so with young people, when you're under the age
of twelve, criminal responsibility and I back our work to
raise a criminal age of responsibility from ten to twelve.
A ten and an eleven year old with their baby
teeth should not be sitting in a juvenile detention center.
They should be working. They should be dropped home to
mum and dad or a safe parent. They should be
having those wrap around support, you know, supports that Mary

(19:44):
Clare in a government don't like and don't understand where,
because you need to look at all of the factors
of what led to that behavior.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Because if you.

Speaker 5 (19:53):
Don't understand the behavior, Mary Claire, how on earth are
you and your government going to address it?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
May have the idea I.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Want to I will get to those programs because I
want to ask more about that, Nasik. But what is
deemed a responsible adult?

Speaker 5 (20:05):
So it'll be and I'm not a lawyer, that it
would be as someone who can take over the care
and protection of a young child into their care for
that period, And so with the correspondible.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
I'm assuming there's a check that that person's not intoxicated,
that it's not a dangerous situation that they're going back to,
that you know that they are going to be kept
at home, all of those kinds of things. But also
you know there had been reports towards the end of
last year very different scenario, but after children had been
involved in a car crash where they were taken home

(20:36):
to the creek bed in Alice Springs where a child
was dropped home to there. So that's what I'm sort
of asking, are they've been taken home to residential to
a residential address, like that's the question. I think that
a lot of people are asking at this point, absolutely
and thank you for sharing that with me.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I hadn't heard about it. Ol gone follow that up
to make sure.

Speaker 5 (20:57):
So as a Minister for Territory Families, to make sure
that every child who has offended that they can get
dropped home to a suitable adult, after a responsible adult,
in a safe home where they can be protected from
their own behaviors, if that's what that warrants. There are
two types of bail, is my understanding. Police can grant bail,
like Kesey said, working within the Bail Act. The courts

(21:20):
can also grant bail and so there's different conditions of
bail at both of those levels. Every child, whether you're
six years old or sixteen, there are consequences and responsibilities there.
So my job as a Minister for Territory Families is
to ensure that all of the parents are supported to
parent their child properly. And where that does not occur

(21:42):
and they don't come to the table, there's got to
be those provisions in place where they're hell to account.
So Mary Clay has been asking about different support programs.
There's tail end point and family responsibility agreements. But what
my department has been focusing on a lot is making
sure that there are safety plans from the get go,
and that as part of the process about visiting the
responsible adult the next day to ensure that there is

(22:02):
a plan in place, a safety plan so that the
young person can learn right from wrong, undertaking assessment and
get the supports they need to avoid that behavior again.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
So I've got to say, because what very often what
we hear from the Northern Territory government, like what you've
just said to me, then you go okay, Well that
actually sounds quite reasonable. It sounds like different things are
being done to make sure that that kids are safe
and that they are not engaging in criminal activity. However,
it continues to happen, and unfortunately, the level of violence,
the level of brazenness, the level of absolute non care

(22:34):
about the consequence to themselves or the danger that they're
putting themselves in or others, seems to be escalating. I mean,
the issue with the machete and somebody being carjacked is
just one thing that's happened this week. It's been widely
reported in the Australian newspaper over the last week as
well about the incidents in Alice Springs. You know, there

(22:55):
are people questioning what is going to have to happen.
Is a car load of kid's going to die before
the government takes really serious action here. That's what the
community is saying right now. Is an innocent victim going
to have to die? What is going to happen? What's
the benchmark for the government to go? Do you know what?
Maybe we need to recall Parliament, Maybe we need to

(23:18):
actually do something really urgently here to intervene because it's
not working.

Speaker 5 (23:25):
So we're undertaking a whole suite of work that has
all evidence based to ensure we get the outcomes that
we all need and the territory, the safe territory that
we all deserve, and we're looking at the pointy end
and we continue to work that way. We open the
redevelopment of the Alice Springs Youth Detention Center. We did
the walkthrough with a lot of the stakeholders who are
very engaged in that process. It's making sure, like you said, Katie,

(23:45):
that these young kids have a safe home to grow
up in, that they have responsible.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Parents who are caring for them. Where that does not
take place.

Speaker 5 (23:52):
Unfortunately, I still have I think it's close to a
thousand kids in care, so where parents are not doing
their job, And this is the conversation I was really
had to have with Marion Scrimjoys. But in the last
two days in our springs, I meet with Marion most
of the times when I can catch up with her
and she's in town. And there were two things that
we spoke about clearly yesterday Katie and others and listeners.
One of them was where a parent is not doing

(24:14):
the right thing and they are on supplemented income, can
they be targeted income managed? And so we So that's
a very frank and clear conversation that Marian and I
are on the same page, and I'm going to be
taking that up to the Feds to say we need
to look at how we.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Do things different.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
If a parent is not going to parent despite all
of the supports in place, then they shouldn't be afforded
the opportunity for that to continue.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
So how soon can something like that happen? That's the
question people are asked. So it's the.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Federal government who's responsible for that. So I will be
making phone calls after I leave this studio now that
I know that I've got you know the member for
Lingiari who works extremely hard for the Central Australian region
and we're both on the same page. The other thing
is about royalties, Katie and others, and so looking at
how Aboriginal royalties are paid and through the system and
whether or not just federal government it can be deemed

(25:00):
and included as income and there are textans out there
that are setting vulnerable people up for further failure. My
job is to come in for the last seventeen weeks,
have a look at things, operate and fix them.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
I mean, can I just ask, though Marion has said
that the government needs to stop pussyfooting around, do you
think you need to stop pussy footing around? She's talking
about the NT government.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
We are not pussy footing around. We are looking at
this very seriously. One of the things that I need
to do as a Minister for Territory Families is ensure
that our communication is very clear. We are not just
hanging around the tail end of the system where our
young kids are out there with machetes and kajaki.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
If you're not pussyfooting around, though, why is it taken
until now seven years in to go all right? We
need to look at things like royalties. We need to
look at things like income management and how we change
this system to stop setting families up for failure, but
stop allowing kids to go down this path right like

(25:55):
you're talking about earlier in the week and eleven year
old kid. You guys have been talking about generational change
since you were elected. That kid's grown up under your
generational change and it hasn't worked by the look of USh.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
So, like I said, Katie, I came in as a
Minister for Territory, Families and Urban Housing and New Seniors
and Equality back in late October last year, and so
I hit the ground running. I have, you know my
lens that I throw over everything I do. I'm an
almost forty three year old Aboriginal on torost jot Islander,
territory and woman. I get to see things very differently.
I'll walk in both worlds, so I get to understand

(26:30):
more clearly what's working and what's not working, not unlike
you know Mulanderry McCarthy and Marian Scrimjaw. And so taking
those ideas from my own experience around the table with
my government and making sure that we get the mc
Guernsey in partnership with others holding people to account the
right way. There is Aboriginal culture at the forefront of
everything I do, because most of the kids in attention
today are Aboriginal. Most of those kids who are committing

(26:51):
these crimes are Aboriginal. Most of those parents who aren't
looking after their kids are Aboriginal.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
We know that very well, and.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
So some of those really tough conversations have been occurring
for a new way of what do you think?

Speaker 1 (27:01):
For that reason, it makes a department, It makes some
people scared to actually remove a child from what could
be a dangerous situation because they are fearful that they
are You know that it's going to be deemed as
being a racist thing to do.

Speaker 5 (27:14):
It's a very good question and my answer is no.
So from day one when I came in this portfolio,
I made it very clear to my CEO, senior management
and the entire team who work incredibly hard in territory families,
you do not see the race or of a child.
You find out what led to what the situation they're in,
and you hold people to account, and where it is
unsafe or dangerous, you remove that child. You don't worry

(27:36):
about anything else. I have had strong conversations with a
lot of our leaders and they are on the same page.
And so I had this unique opportunity as a born
and bred Aboriginal territory and woman, to do things a
little bit differently.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And that's what I'll continue to do.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
And what are the things that hold these people to account? Nari?
I mean, I'm hearing a lot.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
Of things, how you're supporting them, and there's all these
people to working really hard to make this happen. Said,
we are no better off in the territory now, are
actually worse off than we've ever been before.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
And the Deputy Police Commissioner told us the other day
that we're actually crime is five times higher over the
last three years, so we have a we.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Have more young children who are in that justice space,
my understanding is than ever before. And so having a
look at everything that's working and not working.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Is absolutely at the top of what we've dow.

Speaker 5 (28:26):
So we support families to better support their child because
if you go worst case scenario, and as a Minister
for Child Protection, if I was to take every naughty
kid into care today, what would that look like. I
would not have the careers. I would not have the
budget and we would have a whole bunch of people
if created children and don't have to take responsibility for them.
And so we make sure there are parenting support programs,
financial counseling, We make sure people are added to the

(28:48):
Bend drinker register. I will now go to the federal
level and work closer with my federal counterparts, with Marion
scrim Dawl support to say, can we look at targeted
and that happened urgently?

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So can that happened urgently? Because honestly, people are just
going to be screaming right now, going why are we
only talking about this now? Catie Cardie. It has been
talked about it, but it's never happened. Hasn't agreed?

Speaker 6 (29:09):
And just to raise on one issue that and I
mentioned is mining rules, mineral rualties, exploration compensation payments, but
particularly mineral rut It's particularly in Central Australia because they
come from the granite' Goal mine and they have been
coming over two people in that area in around Dallas
Springs for decades and they are lumped lump sums, you know,

(29:31):
when it's royalty time, they have their lump some payments
they go in and they buy cars.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
You know, it's a great it's an ultimate consumer.

Speaker 6 (29:38):
They get the money, they pass it out into the
community and we're talking tens of millions of dollars over
the last twenty thirty years that those gold mines have
been operating in the Tanami. They get cash payments. They're
still also getting their benefits or whatever they get from
the Coomorf government pensions, keras pensions whatever.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Those royalties are not taxed.

Speaker 6 (29:56):
They are straight cash advances to ambitional people and they
are being squandered, are being squandered, and it's contributed over
the decades to what we now have as a problem
in our territory. That comes back to the Aboriginal land
rights ack. It comes back to the statutory land councils
and the royalty associations.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Within that structure.

Speaker 6 (30:14):
And that's why someone I don't know if it's marriage
scrimgeal or Chief Minister Lawler talked about the Kate Warden
talked about what land councils are doing in regards to
their role and their job, which is basically to be
representing their constituents and managing the land on behalf of constituents,
but you know, we're talking millions, if not billions that

(30:36):
have contributed to this problem and it's not going away.
So in that package NARI where you talk about the comms,
that's where there needs to be changed in regards to
the Aberginal Land Rights Ack and the royalty associations.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
I unfortunately don't really think there's a quick fix to
this issue. It's it's really been decades in the makking
and so, you know, I ultimately think when we talk
about parental responsibility, having a safe home, I think that's
really at the crux of that. And unfortunately there's not

(31:10):
something you can there's not a wand you can wave
to fix that. You know, But when you have a
secure home where it's a nice place to go to,
when you're connected with school, where you can see a
path through employment, when you have the example of parents
in secure employment, that's that's the sort of thing that

(31:34):
prevents you from roaming the streets at night, from committing crimes.
And unfortunately, I don't think there's a wand you can
wave to fix that. And I'm not sure that you know,
reducing the income of households by you know, prescribing payments
or anything like that. You know, I don't think that

(31:57):
that is going to contribute to wars. It's making a happy,
stable household.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
I got to tell you, I think that the way
a lot of people around the territory are feeling at
the moment is that they're feeling as though the victim's
voices are not being heard. And and you know, this
is a really complex issue. It absolutely and you know
we've heard that time and time again that it's such
a complex thing. But the expectation of the community is

(32:23):
that they're safe. Fundamentally, that is it that that people
are safe? Who was threatened with machine? Well, I don't know,
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (32:33):
Yeah, the old question, but who scooped him up? Yeah,
you know, he's gone home with the fear of God
being put into him by these gumbags.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
But who scooped him up? Why are we talking about that?
And I think the question that a lot of like
a lot of people are starting to ask around the place,
particularly if you're raising kids here in the Northern Territory,
is you're starting to think to yourself, there's a set
of rules for those that are breaking the law, and
there's a set of rules for kids that are adhering
to the law. What you're starting to wonder is when's it? When?

(33:02):
When is my child going to be in a situation
where a knife's pulled on them? Or when is my
child going to be in a situation where their bikes
stolen from them and they've got no recourse for any
kind of action even though they've been muh and lawns
every weekend to earn the money to buy that bike.
Or when is there going to be you know, when
is my child going to be punched in the face

(33:23):
when they're at the shops? Or when's my grandmother? When's yeah?
And these are the start These are the kinds of
questions that a lot of people are asking right now,
and they're feeling like that can happen and there's not
going to be a consequence to that happening. And again,
I'll go back to I understand, and I do fundamentally
understand how complex this situation is with kids not growing

(33:46):
up in a safe home. And I tell my kids
every day, you are so lucky. You know that you
might not realize now, but you're so lucky to be
growing up in a home where you're loved, you looked after,
you're safe. You don't have to or about being you know,
screamed at nothing dangerous happening in your home, but it
doesn't give anybody the right to go and do that

(34:08):
to other people.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
You are completely correct, Katie, and every single one of
those incidents that you raised, you know we're all sitting
here shaking our heads, very frustrated, sad and disappointed, and
you summed it up wonderfully. My job as a Minister
for Territory Families Youth defending Youth justices to ensure every
young Territorian who commits a crime and those under twelve
where it would be deemed a crime if it wasn't

(34:29):
for their young age, are held to account. That is
my responsibility as a Minister for Territory Families. So we
make sure that we have the provisions in place to
identify who the youth defenders are and that we can
go around and meet with their families support them on
a better path to the future. Now, for whatever reason,
the families are unable to or choose not to play
by the rules and get better, then there are severe

(34:49):
consequences and some of those include removing the care and
protection of that child and being placed into the care
under my CEO and Territory Families.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
We're going to have to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one oh four nine three sixty.
It is the week that was. If you've just joined
us this morning in the studio from the NT News
Alex Tracy, we've got Nari Kit who is indeed the
Minister for Territory Families. We've got Keyes here Puric and
we've got Mariy Claire Boothby. It has been a very
busy morning and well this week we know the Northern

(35:17):
Territory Police their new case management system. It's maybe not
gone down quite as well as had been hoped, with
frontline officers saying that it's put them at risk and
resulted in unlawful arrests. That is what we were told
earlier in the week by Nathan Finn, who is indeed
the president of the Northern Territory Police Association. He'd also

(35:40):
spoken to us about potential unlawful arrests and some concerns
when it comes to prosecution briefs and being able to
process things. There is no doubt that it's not going down.
It's not going down without teething issues, right like and
I think that when you are at effectively changing over

(36:01):
from a system that you've been using for eons to
then going across to something brand new that is very different,
there's always going to be concerns, but you want to
make sure that they're able to be fixed, they're able
to be worked through, and that it's not a burden
to those frontline offices.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
Yeah, Katie, and I think. I mean Nathan Finn was
on your show earlier this week talking at this very
issue of this new system and it's you know, millions
and millions of dollars and a lot of years to build,
and three months on from it being implemented, they're actually
worse off and have more to do now than they've
ever had to do before. And of course our police
are already absolutely stretched. They will tell you that every

(36:42):
day of the week. So the last thing they need
is to have this system which creates more work for them,
of course, and we're also hearing that the training hasn't
been sufficient either. The ways I see it is the
Minister for Police came out and said how wonderful it was,
and it was they couldn't they couldn't actually go back
and get historical data from the new system, so they
couldn't compare results. And yet the Police Association president said

(37:05):
that that's actually not true. They can.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
They can apparently, and I'd also ask Martin Dole about
this earlier in the week and they will be able
to compare that data year on year, I believe, will
be able to go back and get it, which is
actually it is really quite important in terms of being
able to work out with your crime stats are going up,
going down, where the more resources are required in certain areas,
all that kind of thing, right.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
There's I think there's an interesting parallel between what's going
on with sir pro and also Acacia, the NTE Health
sort of big flagship IT system which has recently been
suspended temporarily from use in the Palmerston and Royal Darwin hospitals.
Similar similar words about that about it being sort of clunky,

(37:52):
difficult to use. Katie, I think you're right when you
say these big new IT programs and never quite never
go that smoothly. Obviously shows there's a bit of work
for the government to do in this space to make
sure these really critical frontline you know, department's workforces are

(38:15):
getting the back end support they need. The other point
to be made is I think there's been a bit
of sort of lack of clarity about exactly how much
pro has cost the taxpayer. I've seen quite a few
different figures floated around. I think, well fifty eight million
was reported in the ABC today or yesterday, but I

(38:38):
know Nathan Finn on ABC has cited the sixty five
million dollar figure. I think originally we were talking thirty
million dollars. So I think there's just we want to
make sure that taxpayers getting banged for buck, and I
think there's been a bit of lack of clarity about
exactly how much this has cost as well.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I will say that I have been told it's it's
the same system that's being used throughout a number of
other jurisdictions in Australia, or it's certainly being rolled out
in other jurisdictions around Australia. So it is obviously a
system that will hopefully become easier and better to use.
I reckon one of the things that I hope and
you know, I don't know whether I'm speaking on behalf
of frontline offices here, but you sort of you want

(39:20):
it to be something that you're able to use in
a mobile fashion as well, so that if you're out
on a job, you can tick things off and do
things as quickly as possible, so you're not going back
to the office then with so much paperwork to get
to get done. That's in taking you away from your
actual job, which is policing.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
I believe that was the whole premise of it, Katie,
and that's everything that we need to see. So, like
you said, mobile police need to be out as much
as possible and being able to do their jobs out,
you know, not stuck behind the office.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
And so I don't have the figure for SURPRA. I've
asked for it.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
I'll see if I can get that before today's session
is over. But as the former Minister for Corporate and
Digital Development, that is the department that has looked at
all of the government systems. We have looked at the
needs of all of the different areas and how to
better match what are the up to date systems and
for the use and so I take on board what
Alex was saying. There are always going to be teething

(40:12):
issues when people are changing over from a system that
they know and my perhaps feel more comfortable with to
a new one, so they are teething issues. There will
be ongoing training and support and what's been really great
for all of our government systems we've rolled out over
seven and a half years is we've seen a lot
of early adopters, people who are very tech savty savvy
and pro change and so for those who need extra support,

(40:33):
DCDD will be working with police to make sure that
every single one of those officers get the support they
need to be able to use a serpro system.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
With your hat on as Minister for Corporate and Digital Affairs,
how things going now with a Kasha? Is it going
to be re implemented or where is it? Ash?

Speaker 5 (40:46):
So I was a former Minister for Corporate moment now
and so that changed in late October and so Akasha,
my understanding is in the emergency departments of Royal Darwin
and Palmeerson Hospital that's on pause.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
At the moment.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
They're using the old system, which is sufficient to get
them through all of the entering of data and making
sure that patient care.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Is all covered.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
But what we found is after we implemented it and
you give them a trial in the actual setting, and
so there's a lot of training that goes on in
the background. Of course, our emergency departments are very busy,
so pulling people off their desk and undertaking the training
is very very hard to do. But it's been done
quite well. So we're making sure that when the staff
members say, oh, this isn't helpful, this screen needs to

(41:27):
be here, we need to click on it from there.
That's the work that can be updated with the system
right now, Well, look.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
We are did you want to say something Marica one
more again?

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Yeah, just going back to that cur pro I just
find it quite tricky of Labor. The Police Minister is
saying that they can't extract the historical data when we
know that crime is the biggest issue on or territorians'
minds and police do need to be able to deploy
their resources quickly and if they don't have quick access
to that then that's not good enough. But also with

(41:55):
the Police Association actually saying that they can extract that data,
it just shows that Labor have been caught out trying
to be all tricky with how this is all working.
And Nathan Finn even said that he believed it was
a political campaign instead of policing.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Well, look, I do want to say, I accidentally said
the wrong figure. Speaking of figures, a couple of minutes ago,
when we're talking crime stats with Martin Dole, he said
that crime had tripled in five years. I think I said,
we've gone up five times in three so I've got
the number's mistake. Yes, massive figure. We're going to take
a bit of a break before we do wrap up
for the morning. You are listening to Mix one O

(42:30):
four nine's three sixty. It is the week that was well,
that is just about it for us this morning. Of
course I'm still on till midday, but that's it for
our panel guests this morning. Alex Tracy, good to have
you in the studio this morning. Mate. From the end,
it's been really fun.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
I hope i've myself hope I owned myself a second invitation.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
To wrangle with Matt Cunningham, Georgie or Cat from Channel nine.
It's good to have a good panel of Thank you
Nria kids so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Thanks Katie, thanks panel, thanks listeners.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And keezyer Puric has always great to have you in
the studio. Can I do a shout out to someone?
Why not? Because they love your show?

Speaker 6 (43:11):
Oh, who's that the people at empty Link at bearrmar Link,
you know, thanks Katie showing good stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Marie Claire Boothby, thank you for your time this morning.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Thank you. And I also want to give a shout
out to the Parmesan Game Fishing Club because on the
last Friday of every month they do a little club
night and they have meals down there. It's a wonderful atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Head on down wonderful check them out. Marlow's the going
wonderful stuff. Well, I'm also being told good news. There's
tourists everywhere and all the tourists bussive Fuller down Kavanaugh
Street and Smith Street, so that is wonderful to hear.
With that cruise ship in town. Good to have you
all in the studio. That was the week that was
right here on Mix one O four nine