Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
As I said earlier, I'd love to get on the
show this morning and talk about other things happening around
the territory, but unfortunately the crime that we've seen over
the last week is again dominating headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yesterday in Alice Springs, two senior Territorians in their seventies
were held at knife point. On the weekend, we know
a couple in the Northern Suburbs were held at knife
point and their vehicle was stolen. Our good mate, Matt Cunningham,
well he had golf club wielding youths at his place.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
He says they looked.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Around twelve thirteen trying to get into his home on
Friday night or in the early hours of Saturday morning. Now,
the Chief Minister joins me in the studio. Eva Laula,
good morning to you morning, Katy, Thanks so much for
your time this morning. Now, Chief Minister, to say that
Territorians have had a gut full, I think is an understatement.
We've learned yesterday morning that two senior Territorians in their
(00:50):
seventies were held at knife point in their homes after
five male offenders kicked in the front door at that residence. Now,
police say that the offenders were armed with edged weapons.
They've demanded money, cigarettes and alcohol, with one offender holding
a knife to the female victim's throat as those demands
were made. At one point, the female victim ran out
(01:11):
through the rear door while chased by two male offenders.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
She's called the police.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
The two male offenders have then jumped the reoffence of
the property, fleeing the premises. Chief Minister, how do you
feel when you hear about incidents like this?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm like, I'm shocked as anybody, and it actually makes
me feel very, very sad, not just the old people,
but everybody a matte story as well.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It is just its apporrent behavior.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And you the eighteen year old rolling in the car
and then all these mates leaving him like that's unfathomable
to me as well. It's just yeah, all parts of
this are things that really just make me feel sad
more than anything. I guess speak for the territory. It's
in bar Field, sad but frustrated it as well. That
(02:01):
you know, if there was a quick fix, I'd be
onto it. I can assure territorians you know, this is
hard slogging work that's needed between the government agencies. But
you know, to the people who have been impacted by
any crime, you know, any crime, you know, my heart
goes out to them because I know how it makes
people feel, and I really don't want to see any
(02:24):
crime in the territory. That would be a nice day, Katie,
when I get when we get together on a Monday
morning and we take.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Talking about other stuff, that's right.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It'd be lovely to be talking about renewables.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And that's it or something. But unfortunately, at the moment
it's just not the case.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I mean, small kids held up a couple with a
knife in the Northern Suburbs.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Now they stole their car.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
According to reports in the NT News, before another group
stole the car from the initial group.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Now kids turned up.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Then, as I've mentioned, to Matt Cunningham's place with golf
clubs on Friday night, they tried to smash his doors
trying to break in.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He called Triple zero, was on hold for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
No police turned up because they were under the pump
with more serious incidents.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
To you, is that acceptable?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
No, absolutely not acceptable.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And that's the review of policing that will be coming
out in the next couple of weeks literally and that
will provide direction to government around additional resources for the police.
So we know the issue around that the number of
crimes keeps increasing. You know, some of the work that
Brent Pott has done as Police Minister is around the
Territory Safety Division, so escalating the police numbers. The other
(03:31):
one was the announcement recently around converting palis to constables
as well, so getting more of those paris who've got
some ground level training to be able to fast track
them into constables. So we're doing the work to get
more police on the ground, you know, more boots on
the ground, more vans on the road. But it is
making sure that we can have three or four or
(03:53):
five vans or however many and you know that's up
to the police, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I mean, people don't feel safe in their own homes.
This is the concern that we've got. They don't feel
safe in their own homes. You know, even for me,
before last week, I'd have thought if a group of
kids was walking towards me, I might feel slightly concerned,
but I wouldn't be worried that they're actually going to
get up in my face and then try to flog
my phone from me, and I also, you know, I
(04:18):
would not think that they're going to then go and
and have knives and go elsewhere and effectively rob other premises.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Like right now, it feels like there is a real
feeling of lawlessness, Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Absolutely apparent behavior. And when you hear about fourteen year
olds stealing cars off people who have stolen the car,
it's almost comical really, So it is so frustrating. But
to me, as I said, it has to be this
coordinated and the work that's happening now are coordinated between
the government agencies. It's not just police, as we know,
police are doing a damn fine job every single day,
(04:57):
but it is the staff from Territory Families, Education and
you know I've been Education Minister. Those young people, we
need to start early with them and make sure they're
at school.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Let's go through a few of those programs because last week,
obviously we saw the eighty one year old woman who
was rolled at Casarina.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
One of the kids involved was seven.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
At least one of those kids then was involved in
the incidents that well with our running amuck in the
city armed with weapons, do you know what consequences those
kids have faced.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there is a on track program. So that on
track program, it's not the back on track, but.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
If you're on tract twelve, if it's not compulsory.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No so, but that on track program involves the work
with the schools activities for those kids. But there there
are able to and that's territory families taking the lead,
identify the kids, work with their families around that and
if need be, those kids need to be taken into care.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Because so do you feel like in a situation like
that from last week, what do you feel would be
in approb consequence?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, you know I would as a mother, I would
be if my child was brought or a child, Well,
my child wouldn't be in that situation, but as a family,
I would have to make sure that that child had
consequences at home as well. So it would be making
sure that they were at school every single day, that
they are embedd at a regular time, that they had breakfast,
(06:22):
that they had a you know, but some.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Of these these kids said aren't right like this, this
is the whole problem.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So it is about them taking them into care where
that child.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Get it feels like they're being held to ransom by
these kids. They feel like they're you know, we feel
like there is there is no consequence, rightly or wrongly.
That's how people feel at the moment. I keep thinking
to myself, you know, like you said, you're feeling sad
about it. I keep thinking to myself, is this a
place where I should raise my kids? That's how people
(06:54):
That's how long term territorians are feeling.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I don't want to give up on this place.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I understand that, Katie, and you know absolutely as a
government we will continue to and you know, to me,
it's that analogy, as I've used before, you squeeze the balloon.
You're having to tighten and tighten and tighten around these
young kids.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But so when kids are not at school, what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So on Monday, for example, those kids that were roaming
the streets, what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So they're in education, there are you know, whether the
terms truancy officers or engagement officers, there are people in
schools whose responsibility, sorry in the department, whose responsibility it
is to keep an eye on the kids that aren't attending.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
So they see that data.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But in schools, in our own schools, in every school,
every government school, there may be an Aboriginal Island or
education worker, or there may be an assistant principal whose
job it is then to look at their role see
which children aren't turning up, contact the parents. Parents are
supposed to contact the school when they don't attend.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So last Monday, for example, do we know if they're
local kids? Do we know if they're visiting from somewhere?
Do we know what the said suation was?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Still?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, I actually don't know myself. But education would have
that information on that child, and territory families would have
the information on that child. So those children then are
individually followed up one of the schools in my electorate.
Or I have Molden, Gray Driver, I have low socioeconomic
schools in my electorate, and I know in Molden they
(08:21):
continue to follow up with students. Same with Gray. They
have a bus that'll go around and pick up kids.
They'll support the kids through breakfast programs. So the schools
continue to work very very hard to get kids to
school every day, but parents also need to get them
up every day and get them to school.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But so at the moment, Chief Minister, again, I just
want to I really want to nut this out right
because it seems like we are seeing based on the
reports that we're receiving and based on what people are
actually contacting us about at the moment, like there are
kids that are under twelve that are running a mark
and they're not fearing any consequence. Do you think that
(09:00):
raising the age of criminal responsibility has worked?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Well, Katie, that was a recommendation from the Royal Commission, So.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Will you regret implementing it?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, Katie, that was a recommendation of the Royal Commission,
and that we're beholden. You know, that was a federal
government push from the federal government to do that. But
what we need to continue to do is to work
with those families. And that's the work that I've been
talking about and today I'm going to be making announcement
around a skills training center out in a remote community.
(09:28):
We need to do more with that. We need to
make sure that those kids are going to school, that
their families are supporting them to go to school. That's
the long term solutions. Short term solutions is to have
territory families stepping in and working with those families because
obviously those families are struggling to control their kids.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I want to go through a couple of things, the
raising of the criminal age.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Do you think it's working? But you know, Katie, in.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
All seriousness, do you think it's working at the moment
when we see what's going on around the place.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
But Katie, that wouldn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Do you think those kids are going to go, I'm
not going to commit a crime because I'm seven or i'm.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
A I think that kids at the moment aren't worried
about the consequence.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Kids are these kids that we're talking about aren't worried
about consequences because they've had either you know, shocking lives.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Where So, how do we how do we now stop
the rest of the community, law abiding citizens from being
targeted because it feels as though there's a set of
rules for some.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And there's a total other set of rules for others.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Those rules are the same, Katie, whether you're you know,
I don't know if you're you know you're talking about
an Indigenous or non indigenous.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm talking about people that are breaking the law and
those that aren't.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But all that's the you know, that's the legislation, that's
the rules for all of those those kids. But you know,
even if there was a change of raising the age.
It then goes before the courts and what happens is
those kids, they are seven, eight, nine, they need to
be put and you know, in a place with a
family who can actually turn their lives around, put boundaries
(11:03):
in place, get them into bed, get them to school.
They're the things that are seven or an eight year
old needs, not being in detention. That's not going to
fix that child. We know that that's just going to
make a child that's in the criminal justice system and
make that there are consequences you can put in for
a young child.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Do you concede at the moment, So, whether it's the
raising of the criminal age, or whether it's the knife
crime strategy, or whether it's our legislative you know, whether
it's our legislation in place at the moment, do you
can see that the policy settings that we have got
in place right now don't seem to be working.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Not necessarily the policy settings, Katie, it's the resources that
these large numbers you know, well large numbers, large numbers
of territorians across the territory that are complex, that have
additional needs. That's the work that needs to be done.
And you know, that is around additional funding from the Commonwealth,
around education, around health, so that you can assess these
(11:58):
kids young and get them in to a place where
they can be successful, where they if they need additional support,
they can be in a special school or a place
where they need support.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So, Chief Minister, at this point in time, do people
just have to wait and hope that there's change.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, No, there is every single day territory families, and
you know it'd be probably useful to get someone like
we've had them, Emma on every single day. These people
and you know, these people work really hard, just like
the police. Territory family staff, education staff work really hard
to keep these kids on the straight and narrow to
(12:34):
make sure they're doing the right thing. But as I said,
it is the families that are struggling, and that's the
work that we need to do to continue to get
these families so that they have the skills to be
able to discipline their children. And that's also what I
hear from these families is we can't smack our kids
or but it's like, well, you know, it's not just
smacking your kids, it's being able to say no to
(12:56):
a three or four year old. So that you can
say no to a seven year old, so you can
say no to a fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I just want to like, I want to make it
really clear this week in Parliament, is your government looking
at doing anything legislation wise or changing anything in this
space at this point.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
No, there is no legislation particularly around directly around youth crime.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But there is legislation for example, there's anything that there.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Is legislation around things that will support these young children,
and that is that will improve their situation them particularly
around housing.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
What is going to change to support the victims.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So we've increased funding for victims of crime, will continue
to do that. But Katie, it is that work around
the police review, more money going into police, more money
going into domestic violence. Those are the things that will
make a difference to these young children's lives. These young children,
if you're talking about seven or eight year olds, we
(13:54):
need to continue to start earlier and earlier around programs
like families as first teachers. There is no legislation that
you can bring into around a seven year old this
week that's going to identify a seven year old and
change that and stop that seven.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Year old thing we've been hearing from the Northern Territory government.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
We've been hearing from the Northern Territory government that it
is generational change. I mean, a seven year old that's
under the generation of the labor government of the time
that you guys have been in and if anything, those
crime stats are going up, those number of victims are
going up.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But there are plenty of and you know, the vast
majority of seven year olds do the right thing. In
the Northern Charritory, the vast majority of parents do a
really good job with their kids. There will be some
children that for whatever reason their lives have been they've
had a terrible life and that they feel that that's
something they need to do. If the CELP or anybody
(14:50):
thinks there's a quick fix to a seven year old
involved in crime, I can tell you there is no.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Think definitely fixating on the seven year old when the
fact is there's like there is actual you know, a
group of kids under twelve, over twelve, you know, there's
some that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Are older than that.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You know, we saw the situation in Alice Springs where
there's a car crash. One of these eighteen year olds
is dead. Following on from that horrific incident, there is
so much happening at the moment that is that's heartbreaking,
you know, and the public's demanding change and they're feeling
like the government's digging their heels in, rightly or wrongly.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's not digging their heels in. Government is continuing to
work with the public sector, the people that we have
in the public sector, which will be doesn't matter who's
in power, you work with the public sector, the people
in there. So whether that's Michael Murphy, whether it's Emma White,
whether it's all the people in there who have years
of experience of addressing these issues, of working with young people,
(15:48):
they're the people who provide the solutions to government. They're
the people that will step up and suggest things the
victims or ranity.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Do you think that the victims of crime could actually
be involved in that discussion as well, though? Do you
think that, you know, I like hearing from them and
what they are saying at the moment could be useful.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, and I absolutely they are. And I formally meet
with people that have had break ins literally in my
electorate office on a Friday this Friday. Last Friday, I
met with people who have been victims of crime. I
do that every local member does that, so they hear
those stories, let alone when we're out and about informally
(16:27):
having that, but we have formal meetings with people and
I always ask that can you provide me with any idea,
any solution, something that you think that we're missing, what
the gap is, things that we can do, And usually
the suggestions are the things that we are working on.
And they all understand that this needs to be consistent,
(16:48):
hard work. There is no quick fix. That's what any
government needs to do to address crime, and that's in
the whole of Australia, not just in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
All right, Chief Best, I'm going to move along. I
know you're for time as am. I Now I need
to ask about the police Minister Brent Potter. Why are
you continuing to support him after it was revealed that
he'd shared numerous posts on social media that was sexist, racist,
anti semitic, critical of labor and homophobic.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, well, Brent, you know they were historical social media posts.
He has said he's an idiot.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I said that very loud and clearly to him, that
he was stupid. But there are plenty of stupid people
out there. That have social media posts, historic social media posts.
I can tell you I've got two grown up children,
and I spent their teenage years saying, you know, my.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Daughter's a lawyer. One day you may want to be
a judge.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Stop putting up social media posts around that you think
that may be totally unacceptable. You know, drinking alcohol, you know,
skimpy clothes, all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So people do post stupid things, but they don't then
become ministers.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And that's the problem. I suppose that that.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Is it is a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But I think a lot of CEOs, the AICD, the
company directors. This is things that we're all grappling with
now from those early years of social media where people
may not have been actually so aware that that their
digital footprint stays with them forever. So I look at
what I can control and what I can't control. I
(18:23):
can control as chief minister, our current ministers, our current
MLA's behavior. Sprent, I think was pre selected in August
or elected in August twenty twenty two. He's assured me
since that time he hasn't done any reposting or any
of those sorts of things. He said he wasn't proud
of it. But those things they don't define him. He
(18:44):
has now been he's now matured. He is a hard working,
very committed to improving the safety issues and safety in
community safety issues in the Northern Territory. And I think
as a police minister, he's doing a good job. He
has worked hard, he's focused, he's working with police. He
strives every day to make our community safe, safety safer,
(19:07):
and that's what my focus is for him.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You're a tough woman, right. I know you're a tough woman.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
There's a lot of people that listen to this show
who've known you for a long time. Every time you
come on, we get people contact us and you know,
they say, I've known either since you know.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
For a long long time. You're a tough lady.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Why are you letting someone like Brent Potter and Chancey
Peg with his Shares scandal really tarnish you and your team?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's actually not that at all, Katie. You know, I've
played a lot of team sports and led a lot
of people. You know, I've probably been a leader and
a manager of people for at least twenty five years. Katie,
What do you have to do as you step through
these things? You bring the people in, you sit them down,
you get someone else who's you know, can investigate and
provide the facts to you. You have a look at
(19:54):
the issue and then you make a decision around that.
But also, as someone who's been a team person, you
also need to wrap around that person because they don't
want to be in trouble. Let's face it, Brent has
had a shocking week. He's ashamed of himself, he's embarrassed,
he wishes he'd never done that. Those were, as I said,
(20:15):
historical things. So as a person who's led a team
and managed people, you're dealing with human beings. Every job
I've ever done, I've had people that have stuffed up.
But it is then how you wrap around them. You
can't just boot them necessarily. You have to actually look
at who and what they're doing now and admit that
probably all of us have made mistakes, said things, done
(20:37):
things that we're not proud of.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And that's the situation here.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Chief Minister, we are going to have to wrap up.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I want to ask you very quickly, what is on
the agenda for you as the Chief Minister this week
and next week when Parliament sits.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So I've got the wagering bill. That's the number one
for me. But also we've got some important people in
town this week, so there'll be some really big announcements.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
So the Prime Minister and others their cabinets.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I've been trying to think.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I think this is probably the first time in probably
the territory's history that we'll have federal cabinet in the
Northern Territory, so a great opportunity. Of course, we're going
to be hitting them up for more cash, that's what
you do in the territory. But there'll be some really
good announcements this week.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, what are you hoping that you might be able to,
you know, to sort of push for from the federal government.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I'd like to well, you know, I've been a passion
for education. I'd like to see that education money come
through this week.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Chief Minister Evil Lawler. I always appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Thank you very.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Elly, And as I said to all of those that
have experienced crime, my heart truly goes out to you.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Thank you. I appreciate it.
As I said earlier, I'd love to get on the
show this morning and talk about other things happening around
the territory, but unfortunately the crime that we've seen over
the last week is again dominating headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yesterday in Alice Springs, two senior Territorians in their seventies
were held at knife point. On the weekend, we know
a couple in the Northern Suburbs were held at knife
point and their vehicle was stolen. Our good mate, Matt Cunningham,
well he had golf club wielding youths at his place.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
He says they looked.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Around twelve thirteen trying to get into his home on
Friday night or in the early hours of Saturday morning. Now,
the Chief Minister joins me in the studio. Eva Laula,
good morning to you morning, Katy, Thanks so much for
your time this morning. Now, Chief Minister, to say that
Territorians have had a gut full, I think is an understatement.
We've learned yesterday morning that two senior Territorians in their
(00:50):
seventies were held at knife point in their homes after
five male offenders kicked in the front door at that residence. Now,
police say that the offenders were armed with edged weapons.
They've demanded money, cigarettes and alcohol, with one offender holding
a knife to the female victim's throat as those demands
were made. At one point, the female victim ran out
(01:11):
through the rear door while chased by two male offenders.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
She's called the police.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
The two male offenders have then jumped the reoffence of
the property, fleeing the premises. Chief Minister, how do you
feel when you hear about incidents like this?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm like, I'm shocked as anybody, and it actually makes
me feel very, very sad, not just the old people,
but everybody a matte story as well.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
It is just its apporrent behavior.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
And you the eighteen year old rolling in the car
and then all these mates leaving him like that's unfathomable
to me as well. It's just yeah, all parts of
this are things that really just make me feel sad
more than anything. I guess speak for the territory. It's
in bar Field, sad but frustrated it as well. That
(02:01):
you know, if there was a quick fix, I'd be
onto it. I can assure territorians you know, this is
hard slogging work that's needed between the government agencies. But
you know, to the people who have been impacted by
any crime, you know, any crime, you know, my heart
goes out to them because I know how it makes
people feel, and I really don't want to see any
(02:24):
crime in the territory. That would be a nice day, Katie,
when I get when we get together on a Monday
morning and we take.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Talking about other stuff, that's right.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It'd be lovely to be talking about renewables.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And that's it or something. But unfortunately, at the moment
it's just not the case.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I mean, small kids held up a couple with a
knife in the Northern Suburbs.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Now they stole their car.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
According to reports in the NT News, before another group
stole the car from the initial group.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Now kids turned up.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Then, as I've mentioned, to Matt Cunningham's place with golf
clubs on Friday night, they tried to smash his doors
trying to break in.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He called Triple zero, was on hold for five minutes.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
No police turned up because they were under the pump
with more serious incidents.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
To you, is that acceptable?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:08):
No, absolutely not acceptable.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And that's the review of policing that will be coming
out in the next couple of weeks literally and that
will provide direction to government around additional resources for the police.
So we know the issue around that the number of
crimes keeps increasing. You know, some of the work that
Brent Pott has done as Police Minister is around the
Territory Safety Division, so escalating the police numbers. The other
(03:31):
one was the announcement recently around converting palis to constables
as well, so getting more of those paris who've got
some ground level training to be able to fast track
them into constables. So we're doing the work to get
more police on the ground, you know, more boots on
the ground, more vans on the road. But it is
making sure that we can have three or four or
(03:53):
five vans or however many and you know that's up
to the police, right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I mean, people don't feel safe in their own homes.
This is the concern that we've got. They don't feel
safe in their own homes. You know, even for me,
before last week, I'd have thought if a group of
kids was walking towards me, I might feel slightly concerned,
but I wouldn't be worried that they're actually going to
get up in my face and then try to flog
my phone from me, and I also, you know, I
(04:18):
would not think that they're going to then go and
and have knives and go elsewhere and effectively rob other premises.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Like right now, it feels like there is a real
feeling of lawlessness, Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Absolutely apparent behavior. And when you hear about fourteen year
olds stealing cars off people who have stolen the car,
it's almost comical really, So it is so frustrating. But
to me, as I said, it has to be this
coordinated and the work that's happening now are coordinated between
the government agencies. It's not just police, as we know,
police are doing a damn fine job every single day,
(04:57):
but it is the staff from Territory Families, Education and
you know I've been Education Minister. Those young people, we
need to start early with them and make sure they're
at school.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Let's go through a few of those programs because last week,
obviously we saw the eighty one year old woman who
was rolled at Casarina.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
One of the kids involved was seven.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
At least one of those kids then was involved in
the incidents that well with our running amuck in the
city armed with weapons, do you know what consequences those
kids have faced.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there is a on track program. So that on
track program, it's not the back on track, but.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
If you're on tract twelve, if it's not compulsory.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No so, but that on track program involves the work
with the schools activities for those kids. But there there
are able to and that's territory families taking the lead,
identify the kids, work with their families around that and
if need be, those kids need to be taken into care.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Because so do you feel like in a situation like
that from last week, what do you feel would be
in approb consequence?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, you know I would as a mother, I would
be if my child was brought or a child, Well,
my child wouldn't be in that situation, but as a family,
I would have to make sure that that child had
consequences at home as well. So it would be making
sure that they were at school every single day, that
they are embedd at a regular time, that they had breakfast,
(06:22):
that they had a you know, but some.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Of these these kids said aren't right like this, this
is the whole problem.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So it is about them taking them into care where
that child.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Get it feels like they're being held to ransom by
these kids. They feel like they're you know, we feel
like there is there is no consequence, rightly or wrongly.
That's how people feel at the moment. I keep thinking
to myself, you know, like you said, you're feeling sad
about it. I keep thinking to myself, is this a
place where I should raise my kids? That's how people
(06:54):
That's how long term territorians are feeling.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I don't want to give up on this place.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I understand that, Katie, and you know absolutely as a
government we will continue to and you know, to me,
it's that analogy, as I've used before, you squeeze the balloon.
You're having to tighten and tighten and tighten around these
young kids.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But so when kids are not at school, what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So on Monday, for example, those kids that were roaming
the streets, what happens.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So they're in education, there are you know, whether the
terms truancy officers or engagement officers, there are people in
schools whose responsibility, sorry in the department, whose responsibility it
is to keep an eye on the kids that aren't attending.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
So they see that data.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But in schools, in our own schools, in every school,
every government school, there may be an Aboriginal Island or
education worker, or there may be an assistant principal whose
job it is then to look at their role see
which children aren't turning up, contact the parents. Parents are
supposed to contact the school when they don't attend.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So last Monday, for example, do we know if they're
local kids? Do we know if they're visiting from somewhere?
Do we know what the said suation was?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Still?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, I actually don't know myself. But education would have
that information on that child, and territory families would have
the information on that child. So those children then are
individually followed up one of the schools in my electorate.
Or I have Molden, Gray Driver, I have low socioeconomic
schools in my electorate, and I know in Molden they
(08:21):
continue to follow up with students. Same with Gray. They
have a bus that'll go around and pick up kids.
They'll support the kids through breakfast programs. So the schools
continue to work very very hard to get kids to
school every day, but parents also need to get them
up every day and get them to school.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But so at the moment, Chief Minister, again, I just
want to I really want to nut this out right
because it seems like we are seeing based on the
reports that we're receiving and based on what people are
actually contacting us about at the moment, like there are
kids that are under twelve that are running a mark
and they're not fearing any consequence. Do you think that
(09:00):
raising the age of criminal responsibility has worked?
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Well, Katie, that was a recommendation from the Royal Commission, So.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Will you regret implementing it?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well, Katie, that was a recommendation of the Royal Commission,
and that we're beholden. You know, that was a federal
government push from the federal government to do that. But
what we need to continue to do is to work
with those families. And that's the work that I've been
talking about and today I'm going to be making announcement
around a skills training center out in a remote community.
(09:28):
We need to do more with that. We need to
make sure that those kids are going to school, that
their families are supporting them to go to school. That's
the long term solutions. Short term solutions is to have
territory families stepping in and working with those families because
obviously those families are struggling to control their kids.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I want to go through a couple of things, the
raising of the criminal age.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Do you think it's working? But you know, Katie, in.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
All seriousness, do you think it's working at the moment
when we see what's going on around the place.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
But Katie, that wouldn't make any difference.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Do you think those kids are going to go, I'm
not going to commit a crime because I'm seven or i'm.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
A I think that kids at the moment aren't worried
about the consequence.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Kids are these kids that we're talking about aren't worried
about consequences because they've had either you know, shocking lives.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Where So, how do we how do we now stop
the rest of the community, law abiding citizens from being
targeted because it feels as though there's a set of
rules for some.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And there's a total other set of rules for others.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Those rules are the same, Katie, whether you're you know,
I don't know if you're you know you're talking about
an Indigenous or non indigenous.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm talking about people that are breaking the law and
those that aren't.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
But all that's the you know, that's the legislation, that's
the rules for all of those those kids. But you know,
even if there was a change of raising the age.
It then goes before the courts and what happens is
those kids, they are seven, eight, nine, they need to
be put and you know, in a place with a
family who can actually turn their lives around, put boundaries
(11:03):
in place, get them into bed, get them to school.
They're the things that are seven or an eight year
old needs, not being in detention. That's not going to
fix that child. We know that that's just going to
make a child that's in the criminal justice system and
make that there are consequences you can put in for
a young child.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Do you concede at the moment, So, whether it's the
raising of the criminal age, or whether it's the knife
crime strategy, or whether it's our legislative you know, whether
it's our legislation in place at the moment, do you
can see that the policy settings that we have got
in place right now don't seem to be working.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Not necessarily the policy settings, Katie, it's the resources that
these large numbers you know, well large numbers, large numbers
of territorians across the territory that are complex, that have
additional needs. That's the work that needs to be done.
And you know, that is around additional funding from the Commonwealth,
around education, around health, so that you can assess these
(11:58):
kids young and get them in to a place where
they can be successful, where they if they need additional support,
they can be in a special school or a place
where they need support.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So, Chief Minister, at this point in time, do people
just have to wait and hope that there's change.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
No, No, there is every single day territory families, and
you know it'd be probably useful to get someone like
we've had them, Emma on every single day. These people
and you know, these people work really hard, just like
the police. Territory family staff, education staff work really hard
to keep these kids on the straight and narrow to
(12:34):
make sure they're doing the right thing. But as I said,
it is the families that are struggling, and that's the
work that we need to do to continue to get
these families so that they have the skills to be
able to discipline their children. And that's also what I
hear from these families is we can't smack our kids
or but it's like, well, you know, it's not just
smacking your kids, it's being able to say no to
(12:56):
a three or four year old. So that you can
say no to a seven year old, so you can
say no to a fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I just want to like, I want to make it
really clear this week in Parliament, is your government looking
at doing anything legislation wise or changing anything in this
space at this point.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
No, there is no legislation particularly around directly around youth crime.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But there is legislation for example, there's anything that there.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Is legislation around things that will support these young children,
and that is that will improve their situation them particularly
around housing.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
What is going to change to support the victims.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So we've increased funding for victims of crime, will continue
to do that. But Katie, it is that work around
the police review, more money going into police, more money
going into domestic violence. Those are the things that will
make a difference to these young children's lives. These young children,
if you're talking about seven or eight year olds, we
(13:54):
need to continue to start earlier and earlier around programs
like families as first teachers. There is no legislation that
you can bring into around a seven year old this
week that's going to identify a seven year old and
change that and stop that seven.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Year old thing we've been hearing from the Northern Territory government.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
We've been hearing from the Northern Territory government that it
is generational change. I mean, a seven year old that's
under the generation of the labor government of the time
that you guys have been in and if anything, those
crime stats are going up, those number of victims are
going up.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But there are plenty of and you know, the vast
majority of seven year olds do the right thing. In
the Northern Charritory, the vast majority of parents do a
really good job with their kids. There will be some
children that for whatever reason their lives have been they've
had a terrible life and that they feel that that's
something they need to do. If the CELP or anybody
(14:50):
thinks there's a quick fix to a seven year old
involved in crime, I can tell you there is no.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Think definitely fixating on the seven year old when the
fact is there's like there is actual you know, a
group of kids under twelve, over twelve, you know, there's
some that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Are older than that.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
You know, we saw the situation in Alice Springs where
there's a car crash. One of these eighteen year olds
is dead. Following on from that horrific incident, there is
so much happening at the moment that is that's heartbreaking,
you know, and the public's demanding change and they're feeling
like the government's digging their heels in, rightly or wrongly.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's not digging their heels in. Government is continuing to
work with the public sector, the people that we have
in the public sector, which will be doesn't matter who's
in power, you work with the public sector, the people
in there. So whether that's Michael Murphy, whether it's Emma White,
whether it's all the people in there who have years
of experience of addressing these issues, of working with young people,
(15:48):
they're the people who provide the solutions to government. They're
the people that will step up and suggest things the
victims or ranity.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Do you think that the victims of crime could actually
be involved in that discussion as well, though? Do you
think that, you know, I like hearing from them and
what they are saying at the moment could be useful.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, and I absolutely they are. And I formally meet
with people that have had break ins literally in my
electorate office on a Friday this Friday. Last Friday, I
met with people who have been victims of crime. I
do that every local member does that, so they hear
those stories, let alone when we're out and about informally
(16:27):
having that, but we have formal meetings with people and
I always ask that can you provide me with any idea,
any solution, something that you think that we're missing, what
the gap is, things that we can do, And usually
the suggestions are the things that we are working on.
And they all understand that this needs to be consistent,
(16:48):
hard work. There is no quick fix. That's what any
government needs to do to address crime, and that's in
the whole of Australia, not just in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
All right, Chief Best, I'm going to move along. I
know you're for time as am. I Now I need
to ask about the police Minister Brent Potter. Why are
you continuing to support him after it was revealed that
he'd shared numerous posts on social media that was sexist, racist,
anti semitic, critical of labor and homophobic.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, well, Brent, you know they were historical social media posts.
He has said he's an idiot.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I said that very loud and clearly to him, that
he was stupid. But there are plenty of stupid people
out there. That have social media posts, historic social media posts.
I can tell you I've got two grown up children,
and I spent their teenage years saying, you know, my.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Daughter's a lawyer. One day you may want to be
a judge.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Stop putting up social media posts around that you think
that may be totally unacceptable. You know, drinking alcohol, you know,
skimpy clothes, all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So people do post stupid things, but they don't then
become ministers.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
And that's the problem. I suppose that that.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Is it is a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But I think a lot of CEOs, the AICD, the
company directors. This is things that we're all grappling with
now from those early years of social media where people
may not have been actually so aware that that their
digital footprint stays with them forever. So I look at
what I can control and what I can't control. I
(18:23):
can control as chief minister, our current ministers, our current
MLA's behavior. Sprent, I think was pre selected in August
or elected in August twenty twenty two. He's assured me
since that time he hasn't done any reposting or any
of those sorts of things. He said he wasn't proud
of it. But those things they don't define him. He
(18:44):
has now been he's now matured. He is a hard working,
very committed to improving the safety issues and safety in
community safety issues in the Northern Territory. And I think
as a police minister, he's doing a good job. He
has worked hard, he's focused, he's working with police. He
strives every day to make our community safe, safety safer,
(19:07):
and that's what my focus is for him.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You're a tough woman, right. I know you're a tough woman.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
There's a lot of people that listen to this show
who've known you for a long time. Every time you
come on, we get people contact us and you know,
they say, I've known either since you know.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
For a long long time. You're a tough lady.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Why are you letting someone like Brent Potter and Chancey
Peg with his Shares scandal really tarnish you and your team?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's actually not that at all, Katie. You know, I've
played a lot of team sports and led a lot
of people. You know, I've probably been a leader and
a manager of people for at least twenty five years. Katie,
What do you have to do as you step through
these things? You bring the people in, you sit them down,
you get someone else who's you know, can investigate and
provide the facts to you. You have a look at
(19:54):
the issue and then you make a decision around that.
But also, as someone who's been a team person, you
also need to wrap around that person because they don't
want to be in trouble. Let's face it, Brent has
had a shocking week. He's ashamed of himself, he's embarrassed,
he wishes he'd never done that. Those were, as I said,
(20:15):
historical things. So as a person who's led a team
and managed people, you're dealing with human beings. Every job
I've ever done, I've had people that have stuffed up.
But it is then how you wrap around them. You
can't just boot them necessarily. You have to actually look
at who and what they're doing now and admit that
probably all of us have made mistakes, said things, done
(20:37):
things that we're not proud of.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And that's the situation here.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Chief Minister, we are going to have to wrap up.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I want to ask you very quickly, what is on
the agenda for you as the Chief Minister this week
and next week when Parliament sits.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So I've got the wagering bill. That's the number one
for me. But also we've got some important people in
town this week, so there'll be some really big announcements.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
So the Prime Minister and others their cabinets.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I've been trying to think.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I think this is probably the first time in probably
the territory's history that we'll have federal cabinet in the
Northern Territory, so a great opportunity. Of course, we're going
to be hitting them up for more cash, that's what
you do in the territory. But there'll be some really
good announcements this week.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, what are you hoping that you might be able to,
you know, to sort of push for from the federal government.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I'd like to well, you know, I've been a passion
for education. I'd like to see that education money come
through this week.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Chief Minister Evil Lawler. I always appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Thank you very.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Elly, And as I said to all of those that
have experienced crime, my heart truly goes out to you.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Thank you. I appreciate it.
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