The Week That Was – 15th March 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well it is Friday morning, and I tell you what,
after a couple of sick days, I could not miss
the week. That was a big thanks to Sarah Paslik
for us stepping in and playing some great music for
us throughout the week. It's been a very busy week
and joining us in the studio this morning. Well from
Sky News the Sky News bureau chief for the Northern Territory,
Matt Conning out Kati, Good morning to you. We have
got from the Labor Party Selena Rubo, the Minister for

(00:22):
Health and various other portfolios. Good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good morning, Katie. Good morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
We've got Keezier Puick, the Independent member for Goid Good morning, Keezier.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Morning morning, Katie. Morning Bush people pretty went out in the.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Bud certainly, and all the way from Alice Springs. We've
got Josh Bergoing. Good morning to you, Josh for the CLP.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Good morning, Katie, Good morning to the Central Australian listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Good to have you in the studio and Josh, obviously
an interesting sort of week for you this week, kicking
off appearing in court. Are you please that that's all
sort of behind you?

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely, Katie, glad that that has now been dealt
with and obviously the matter finalized.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Now there's been a lot to cover off on this
week and the Prime minister rolled into town. I mean,
do you really come to Darwin when you don't go
on three sixty Because he avoided me. I think it
could be that he was maybe a bit worried that
he was going to have to talk about crime. I
don't know, but there was a lot of money that
was certainly he came to town with bags of money

(01:21):
by the look of things. Matt Cunningham, I.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Wonder if it's an election here. I didn't see any
announcements at about the ruler like you know, the major
water park or well equestrian center, you know, for the
growing sporting industry in regards to horses.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
So you're feeling a bit left out out in the
rural area.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I don't even know if he knows where the
rule area is. Like this labor government, you know, they
do stuff, they do stuff, They do stuff for the
urban people jump over the rule area and then go remote.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well that's because the rural area doesn't vote for him.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
They're going, well, you know why, because they're not very good.
They don't give us anything.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well, look, he did indeed make some pretty massive announcements.
I mean there's this landmark four billion dollar investment into
remote housing to help close the gap. It's a ten
year commitment. It's going to see two hundred and seventy
homes built each year, helping to address overcrowding, with funds
also allocated to maintenance and repairs. Now, look, on the
face of it, a great announcement in terms of closing

(02:22):
that gap and making sure that people do have homes.
But I worked for the then Housing Minister Rob Knight
when the biggest housing announcement of the day see him,
was rolled out, and I tell you what, it's a
bit of a debarkle trying to roll these things out
when you look at the cost of those homes as
well to roll out in those remote communities. It's not
a cheap exercise.

Speaker 5 (02:42):
I remember during the sea hit days, insurance still keeps
you awake at night. But I remember the controversy then
being the fact that one house was costing more than
a million dollars. Now, I know there's been a bit
of inflation since two thousand and eight nine or whenever
that was, but one point five million dollars per house,
and I'd be curious to know how much of that

(03:03):
cost is not going to the construction and labor of
building the actual house, but how much of that is
being sucked up as we saw with c Hire being
sucked up with administration.

Speaker 6 (03:14):
Yeah, Katie, it's a fantastic announcement for the Northern Territory.
We've never seen this level of investment in remote housing before.
It is the fifty to fifty partnership with the federal government,
so it is territory money as well as federal money
that is going into the remote housing investment. But as
you know, and I think many of you listeners know, Katie,
we will only get ahead of the game if we

(03:35):
see housing improve in the Northern Territory when it comes
to health and education and employment benefits, social aspects as
well as economics. So this four billion dollars for remote
housing is massive. And to go to Matt's point, you know,
there is some costs that do need to be covered
on the administrative side. But what we've seen, particularly in
the last six years of a territory labor government and

(03:56):
the pipeline of works that have been rolling out for
remote housing is the efficiencies around the design, the efficiencies
around the headworks, making sure that more land services are
broad online, and all of that back of house before
you even start to build a home is all costed
and will be covered through this next ten years.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
That's part of the money.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Pots you point five million dollars for a home, it's
it's more than most regular jos can even comprehend in
terms of building a home for yourself, right, Like, I mean,
it's a massive amount of money. And I get that,
it's you know, I get that homes, but particularly.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's the materials. It's part of the cost comes from
the materials that have to be used. Now I know
at least three businesses in Darwin that make homes that
part of the periodical contract or period contract with the
NTI government to do homes for picking in the bush.
And some of the materials that they use are top end,
like all the toilet, the bathroom in the kitchen is
all stainless steel. They have to use crimmesh around it,

(04:53):
so they have built very diffresh paint so and that
all adds up and then then when you take the
house out to the community, it has to all then
put back together again and if there's any sort of
things that are slightly missing, trades people have to come
back in.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
So I do not begrudge in any way the local
contractors that are no doubt going to benefit from it
and be building those homes.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
We've seen this in other springs. You know that the
Prime Minister comes in makes an announcement, but today we're
all talking about the delivery, and I've been on the
ground actually wiring up some of these homes in remote communities.
I think it's really important when we look at the
delivery how long are these homes actually going to last
for Because we've seen a lot of transportable buildings used
recently which don't have the same lifespan as block and

(05:33):
roof trust sort of things. So we really need to
look at making sure that with this huge announcement we're
getting the best bang for buck as well when we're
delivering these homes on the ground.

Speaker 6 (05:42):
Yeah, and Katie, just to talk to Josh's point, the
modular homes that he's referring to, they do have a
longer lifespan than what was originally thought of. When we're
talking about transportable transport it we mean to move something
in and then you remove it. We're talking about module
homes that are installed prefabricated outside off site, I guess
you'd say, and then in stalled in community. And they
have a very similar lifespan. This is from infrastructure. They

(06:04):
have a very similar lifespan to our brick homes. So
it's still about twenty to thirty to forty years lifespan,
which is what you'll see with the brick home, so
they are comparable.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Katie, My question is, Lena, in regards to the announcement
this week, is it prompted me to go back and
look at the progress of the last deal, which I
think is due to come to an end in June
of this year. And according to your government's website on
the financials, it says that the program's budget is one
point one billion dollars, but the total expenditure maybe this
hasn't been updated, but it says the total expenditi is

(06:34):
only five hundred and eighty seven point one million dollars,
so only just over half of the budgeted money has
actually gone out the door according to what's on this website.
And it also says that there were one thy, six
hundred and seventeen homes approved to be built and the
actual number built at the moment is only nine hundred
and two. Another three hundred and forty six under construction.

(06:55):
I'm just wondering why we haven't delivered on what was
promised in the first deal.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
In to one of the big and there will be
an issue with this current round of money to build
houses for people in remote areas. Is the proper release
of land. Now, those companies are said to you that
are building houses under anti government contract or tendering, they've
got the houses ready to go out, but the land
hasn't been released for them to go and do for
the inessential services to go in. Now that comes back

(07:20):
to dipple because it's planning and lands and everything. And
I'm not going to mention company names, but they have
houses waiting to go out to communities, but the community
people that they are, either the local shire, the local council,
the anti government whichever land council can't get their bloody
house in order to promptly release the land so the
bloody houses can go out. So there's a problem within
the Anti government department.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
So is that is that what's sewing things sound or
what's the go Katie.

Speaker 6 (07:47):
Land servicing is a big part of this money. So
when we are talking about people, you know, averaging just
the amount of houses by the cost that's being given,
it doesn't show the true costs and value around things
like land serving, which is which Keysy is very rightly
pointing out. So in the previous or the current agreement,
I should say over four hundred million dollars just on
land servicing. That's to get your power, your water, your

(08:09):
sewerage connected, like I said, before you even build the home.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
So all of that work.

Speaker 6 (08:13):
Land tenure negotiations with the land council is vital. When
we're talking about average Land Rights Act, which we have
here in the Northern Territory, Section nineteen is to be
able to build.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Government can't build unless we have a lease of land.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
But you're talking about home so for indigenous people with
indigenous community.

Speaker 6 (08:28):
Yeah, but just thinking to Katie, the land councils still
have to go through their process if they are going
through new land that is being released on behalf of
traditional owners to be built.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Bock.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Is it taking way too long?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Though? Sometimes it is so.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
But when you think about last year, Katie, we hit
our milestone. We did one hundred new homes in one
hundred days. That's never been seen before in the Northern Territory.
So we'll continue that work. This ten year agreement means
that is ten years worth of pipeline. Our territory businesses
will also benefit from this great work.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Look, it wasn't the only money that the federal government
was splashing.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
We know.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
The federal government and Northern Territory governments have also announced
a one billion dollar investment to fully and fairly fund
public schools by twenty twenty nine, two decades earlier than
the current model now. It includes seven hundred and thirty
seven million dollars from the Feds and three hundred and
fifty million dollars from the Northern Territory government, with the
funds providing more resources, activities, and support as well as

(09:24):
Korea and job pathways. Now, is it going to mean
more support for those schools, you know, to make sure
that it's actually going towards the kids, you know, kids
that actually need us.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Interesting thing in Alice Springs, and we've already had an
initial investment in our education department. I've been working really
closely with schools on the ground as to how they're
going to spend that over the next eighteen months. The
one thing they're saying to me over and over again
is the additional funding is amazing. This is fantastic for
our school, but they're still struggling to attract workers. So
that's you know, occupational therapists that these are eyses that

(09:56):
come and help teachers in the classroom and especially help
those kids that might have special needs, people that need
the additional help. So the additional funding is fantastic, but
we're still struggling to attract people into the Northern Territory
and retain them here. And that is a key part
of this.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
And one of the things that's been raised with us
actually by students as well is school counselors and not
actually having the level of school counselors that are required
in high schools. It's something that I've had raised with
me over the last few weeks and we've spoken about
on the show we have.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
This came up a bit late last year when our
education changed the model, like to mim in college should
have for the number of students, two full time counselors there,
and for some strange reason they changed the model to
a counselor sort of within a town center who then
goes outlets haven't spoke kind of concert, and that's just
not good enough.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's same in the northern suburbs. Schools too easier. And
I've literally had kids like sixteen year old raised this
with me, like they're really worried about it. You know,
in recent weeks they're saying to me, like, we're actually
really worried. They haven't.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
It's got about twelve hundred kids, one thousand, two hundred.
I'm sure those other schools are just as big, big
colleges schools. Now, yes there's an issue attracting the kind
of personnel you need, like professional psychologists or counselors whatever,
but they changed the model and they never gave even
a good reason why they took the counselors out. And
I had a meeting with the Department Education all going
back about two years now, and they promised that there'd

(11:17):
be a full time counselor. The school can fund their
own counselor if they want to, if they've got the funds,
but they shouldn't have to. So that's one thing if
you guys ever get into POWERLP, you need to look
at that because the schools are desperate for full time counselors.
It doesn't matter where the school is.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Katie.

Speaker 6 (11:32):
Again, this is a fantastic announcement around having the territory
funded in the way it should be. Our kids deserve
to have the resources, and our staff in our schools
also deserve to have the resources and the funding to
match that. We know that if you get educationd right
from an early age, then you will see that young
person and that child flourish in their journey as a territory,

(11:54):
and so we want to make sure that that investment
is utilizing well. And I'd take your point about school
counsel Unfortunately, we don't have enough in the territory.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
We've got one hundred and.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
Fifty two schools public schools in the Northern Territory. I
think there's over forty independent and private schools in the
Northern Territory, so about two hundred schools in the NTA.
We would love to see a counselor and if not more,
one or two counselors in every single school, especially those
big ones. But as Josh says, you know there is
some of the professions that link into schools, some of

(12:23):
those school counselors, so what we've done from the territory
government's perspective is to try and provide different pathways to upskill.
So we've got different programs that provide our current education
staff with the ability to look at.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Upskilling and training in an area such you know.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Can we expect our teachers then to be counseling kids.
I mean, they've already got a huge job on their plates.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
We're wanting to get more people into those roles, and
not just with school counselors, but some of those other
areas that do support and enhance a child's journey and education.
We're going to be able to do that with this money, Katie.
That's the big thing, that's the game changer here.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
But it's not coming in until twenty twenty nine. I
mean that's also the hard part, is it sort of
being rolled out like, look at this, it's wonderful, and
it is wonderful, but we're still waiting a number of
years and in the meantime, you know, kids continue to
sort of to languish in.

Speaker 6 (13:12):
Some ways, and I mean it's about preparing and building
that pipeline of where we can see our schools flourish.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
As Keysier pointed out, some of the schools.

Speaker 6 (13:21):
With our global school budget, the current funding model is
going to be able to continues to allow schools to
be able to identify what's the need for their cohort,
their current cohort not saving for a Randy dough day,
what do they need to spend their money on to
get the best bang for buck for those children that
are in the school system now and the benefits that
they'll see through their journey starting from the school process

(13:42):
for this year.

Speaker 5 (13:42):
So is this extra money going to mean that we're
going to have more teachers in our schools and we're
going to have smaller class sizes, Because that's one thing
I've noticed over the period that my kids have been
going to school, is that they're seem to be fewer
teachers being.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Classes, less support, and more and.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
More often when a teacher is sick or is unavailable
that my kids suddenly there's no relief teacher for them
that into other classes and really they don't get anything
in the way of a meaningful education on that day.
So does it mean we're going to have more teachers
in the classroom and it's more the class sized.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
Well, that's the idea of MADZ that we would have
more resources, but please acknowledge as well, across the country,
across the whole of Australia, we are seeing the teaching
profession decline. We are seeing numbers go down and unfortunately
the Territory lab government can't control that. But what we
can do is create those pathways to try and enhance
more opportunities, more pathways for Territorians to go into teaching profession,

(14:37):
maybe people who are in a profession changing across to education.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
This is what some of this.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
Money will be able to do, is to better resource
our schools so our kids of today will be able
to get that benefit.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
We're going to have to take a very short break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
sixty is the week that was. If you've just joined us,
we've got well Josh Burgoyne Kesier, Puic Selena Rubold, Matt
Cunningham in the studio. Well, mattch One thing that the
Prime Minister you didn't get many options to asking questions
about this and it's the biggest issue I think for
Territorians right now, and that is crime. The crime series

(15:10):
that we saw over the course of the weekend as
well was quite phenomenal for all the wrong reasons. Northern
Territory police are investigating multiple unrelated aggravated robberries and burglaries
over the weekend. Well there was reports of up to
seven adults attending one bottle shop on Dripstone Roads, stealing
and damaging and obviously taking away with alcohol. There was

(15:34):
also reports of three youths armed with knives attending a
car park in Wonguri, threatening a male and female victim
with a silver within their silver Mazda three. The youths
and stole that vehicle, drove it to a servo in
lud Miller where they allegedly threatened an employee with a
knife before stealing the cash and fleeing. Then there was
a situation where that car was stolen from them. Matt,

(15:57):
your house as well, you were in a situation earlier
in the week where there was youths outside your window
trying to get in or outside your door with golf clubs.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
Yeah, I think it's the same night that that doub
stolen car was happening, Katie. Was the night that we
were coup just after midnight and just sort of heard
this loud bang and then looked outside and you know,
we thought something had fallen over or something, and then
looked outside and lo and behold there's three kids, probably
twelve or thirteen years old, with golf clubs who were

(16:27):
smashing our glass door, trying presumably to get inside. Now,
you know, that's a minor incident compared to the stuff
that you were talking about there.

Speaker 7 (16:36):
But I'll tell you what it was.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
The thing is, it's not mine to have kids outside
your door with golf clubs. Well, your kids are asleep inside.
And this is where I feel as though we're becoming
very desensitized to this sort of thing and we can't.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
Actually can't and the impact it has, you know, like
I didn't sleep it all on Friday night. You know,
my wife has struggled since. And then you're always conscious of,
you know, what's that noise, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (17:05):
You know, come edgy.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
And we love this place and I've lived here for
the best part of twenty years. I absolutely love Darlin.
You know, it's it's I think it's the best place
in the world. But you know, we've had that conversation
this week about whether we stay.

Speaker 7 (17:18):
You know, I know a lot of other.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
People are having that conversation about whether you say, I
know an Alice Springs.

Speaker 7 (17:22):
This is what's so hard to hear conversation.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
It's so hard to hear. And in Alice Springs as
well as the incidence you just spoke about, Katie, we
had a couple in their seventies the home, the front.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Or the king knife held to her throat, life held.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
To her throat. And this is someone that has known
so well to the community of Ala Springs that my
wife knows personally. And you just think this, this poor
person has gone through this and as Matt says, this
affects you now for the rest of your life. And
I think we need to look at what is actually
being done to combat these sorts of things from happening,
because unfortunately the crime is escalating. These sorts of instances

(17:56):
are becoming more regularity. The severity, that's what's so fronting.
We need to make sure there are consequences so people
don't continue to offend like this.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
We are just being told that a man in a
wheelchair was rob dover and iight in his home in
Saturdean as well. You know, like I think to say
that the community has reached the point of feeling quite
broken over the issues of crime is a bit of
an understatement, to be frank, and I was pretty wild,
I've got to tell you on Wednesday morning when I
was at home sick and heard the Prime Minister of

(18:26):
Australia being interviewed on another radio station and not asked
one question about this very serious issue. It is something
that is raised every single day on this show, every.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
Single more upset at his press conference on the same
day when Georgie Dickerson from Channel nine asked a question
about that and was basically laughed at by both, you know,
the Prime Minister and our Education Minister for asking a
question about well, you know you're giving all of this funding,
but where's the funding to help address issues of CRIDA.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
I mean they promised, as you say, they promised that
two hundred million plus to Alice Springs, and I get it.
You just don't get the money. You've got to put
in like an application to get it and show the
program and where it's going to go. I get all
that because it's got to be accounted for, but I
understand that hardly any of that two hundred millions gone.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Eighteen months on. We're all asking ourselves where is that funding?
And how is it making our town any better?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Like if you want people to come here to service
the resource industry, I can tell you because it's happened
before when major projects when Woodside had a big presence
in Darwin and the main first manager came up and
his wife said, there's no way I'm going to go
and live in Darwin. It's too much. And they're from
Perth and it's too much for a while Frontier and
now that's good ten fifteen years ago. So imagine when

(19:41):
a lot of these people try to get their houses
and their partners and spouses and children to relocate to Darwin.
And let's be honest, a lot of the senior jobs
are men, and then that partners may have jobs as well,
but they just say we're not going. So it should
have been an issue for the Prime Minister because he's
giving money to air a few resources, all good and
stuff that yeah, to help that project, you know, get

(20:02):
up and running, But you won't get the people coming
to live in the Northern Territory. If they're families. The
unit does not feel comfortable or safe. So we will
chucking money out there, but we won't have anyone to bloody.
You usually enjoy them all.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
And you know, the thing is we're hearing, like you know,
every time I speak to the Chief Minister or anytime
I speak to a Labor minister about it, everybody's as
appalled as the rest of you know, as every other
territory and by the issues of crime, but not prepared
to look at anything different at this point. And that's
something that I think more than anything. On Monday morning,

(20:36):
when I interviewed the Chief Minister and she said that
there was not going to be any urgent legislative changes
or anything urgent done after the weekend that we'd seen
with crime, that that's the thing that it was no
longer angering people, it's actually making people feel really disillusioned
that they feel like they're not being listened to by
the Northern Territory government, that you guys are not seeing

(20:58):
this as the same issue they're seeing it at Selena.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
Oh, Katie, I think we absolutely do see it as
a huge issue here in the Northern Territory, and I
don't think any of my colleagues have ever disputed that.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
But the work has to.

Speaker 6 (21:11):
Happen in tandem with a whole range of different areas.
So when we're talking about parliament and legislation. That is
the framework by law where we can put in policies
and programs and the mechanisms to actually make a difference
on the ground. So when we talk about if there's
nothing urgent in parliament, it means that we've looked at legislation,
but we're actually really centered on what is the difference

(21:32):
on the ground, and when we're talking about crime and
the effect on the community. The territory is tight knit,
that's why we all love it so much, but we
feel that impact. If someone, an individual or a family,
a neighbor, or a local business or a cafe experiences crime,
it resonates with all of us, whether we know that
person or not, Katie.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
That's the difference here in the territory.

Speaker 6 (21:53):
Crimes happening all across the country, but here in the territory.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
In the country, other premiers are looking at to do
different things, like the new South Wales premier has Well.
He's ruled out raising the age of criminal responsibility to
fourteen as he in outsweeping new laws that will make
it harder for teenagers to get bail and will criminalize
posting and boasting about offenses on social media. So the

(22:18):
Men's Labor government in New South Wales is this week
they've this week introduced legislation to amend the laws, along
with a twenty six point two million dollar package of
initiatives that it says is going to address youth crime
in regional New South Wales. So you know, and then
you've got a situation in Queensland, in places like Mount
iSER where they've amped up the police presence to a

(22:39):
degree where they have been able to really clamp down
on the issues that they're seeing with crime. We're in
a situation where we don't have enough cops to be
able to do that. We're seriously broken at the moment,
and the government's not even prepared to look at legislative
changes or not even prepared to sort of admit that, hey,
maybe we didn't have those programs in place that we
actually needed before we lowered the age of criminal responsibility.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
And that's the thing I mean with our incident the
other night, Katie, I mean, we caught Triple O. We
were on hold for almost five minutes and then we're
basically told police were too busy to get there straight away.
Two police officers from Strike Force tried and came the
next day, and I've got to say they were absolutely magnificent,
but it's clear that they're absolutely under the.

Speaker 7 (23:21):
Pump and overwhelmed.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
And you know, it was only a week before this
incident that that stolen car was driving past my house
given by a twelve you know, or the twelve and
thirteen year olds in that car, and that stolen vehicle
that was being chased through the streets of Nightcliff at
the same time that kids were walking to school. And
then after police managed to stop that vehicle, we found
out that all three of those kids were on bail.

Speaker 7 (23:46):
And it's happening again again.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
There's a case that was just and I can send
it to you can put it on your website. But
there's a case that was just delivered in the Supreme
Court last week involving a fourteen year old kid. And
it is just one incident after another after another where
this kid who's fourteen is involved in a serious incident
of violent offending and gets bail. I mean, it's just

(24:09):
like literally like six times fourth of August granted bail
and I caught again first to September granted bail, re
arrested four days later, sixth of September, granted bail, re
arrested a month later twelfth of oc October, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Speaker 7 (24:24):
And this puts pressure on police.

Speaker 5 (24:26):
And it also means that, you know, Laura, abiding citizens
are at further risk of being subjected to harm. I mean,
God knows what would have happened if that car the
other morning. You know, he swerved off the footpath onto
the footpath and took out five or six kids, And
that was a real possibility of happening.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
He thanks to be honest about this. These young people
who are driving these cars at twelve and thirteen, they
have no life skills. They have no idea how to
drive a car well. And they have no idea how
to drive a car well under pressure when something comes
out in front. And it will be a matter of
time before that happens.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Last spring, this is already happening. And this is the tragedy.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
It's that fellow who got killed.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Well, we've had Shane Powell in the past, some one.
People always remember that.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
That he was killed the man on the motorcycle.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
Motorcycle when a stolen motor vehicle run a red light
and then just recently we've seen a young person lose
their life in a stolen motor vehicle. The motor vehicle
has rolled and that is still under investigation. But a
tragic incident where the current laws aren't protecting the public
and then not protecting these young people that are being
given chance after chance.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
Well, Katie, it comes back. Well, I think one of
the things apart from why they're doing what they're doing,
that's what that's a separate debate. But the reason they're
getting bailed is because the court can allow them or
the judge can allow them to have bail. So the
bail laws really do need to look at be looked at,
you know, for whatever reason. However, so I heard on
the news the other day yesterday, a fifteen year old

(25:49):
girl has had aggravated robbery. She stole a car, she's
crashed the car, she's threatened people, she's stolen She's got
about fifteen sixteen serious charges. You know, she's fifteen. They're
stealing cars and getting the key to steal the cars
is just it's just it's just rampant. But I think
that the government could have introduced measures in regards to
the Bail Act to stop these young particularly the violent offending,

(26:13):
from getting bail. Then people will say, well, are you
going to put them? I don't know, find somewhere. Well,
there means somewhere.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
There will be.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Somewhere you can find, even if it's temporary, to hold
these kids, to find out exactly what's going it is.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
But also if don Dale is now being rebuilt into
a facility that is state of the art, that's therapeutic,
that is able to educate children and run programs, will
I mean, is it now a safe place to be
able to actually send kids if they are doing the
wrong thing? Or the chiefness has spoken about these secure
facilities that are going to be getting up off the ground,

(26:47):
same as the boot camps or you know, we spoke
to we spoke earlier in the week to the operator
of seven EMU station about the work that he does,
Frank and and you know, the work that they do.
There's got to be some better options and we can't
continue on the path that we're on.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Katie. I'm not sure what's happening these days, but there
is a what's called was called a secure care facility
down Foundation Road on the left of the Highway AGC
before you hit Pine lads. It's what the previous government,
labor government, when Combat Scarlets was whatever minister he was,
they wanted to put it in the middle of Beast
Creek and we stopped that. It was then built and
put at foundation.

Speaker 6 (27:20):
Now.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
I don't know how many beds they've got there. I
don't know who and what looks after these days, but
that's one facility I know where they could house.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
I don't know how much have been there recently. Keys here,
I believe Salt Bush are the ones that manage it,
and this is my frustration.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
We have somewhere to put it.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yeah, we have a facility in our Springs. I've visited
it before and quite often unfortunately they're not full, so
they don't have all the kids, and a lot of
that comes to the courts are not court ordering because
in a lot of instances that the young people are
underage or they can't be proven to have done the
wrong thing under Dolly incapax, So there's a lot of
hindrances getting people into those programs. But I agree those

(27:56):
are the sorts of facilities where you need to be
able to take people and rehabilitate so that they're not
a danger to themselves or the public.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Now, to get it.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I get it. If they're underage, you've got to
get a parent or a guardian or whatever responsible adult
I think the term is these days. But someone has
taken that young person to court. Your fourteen year old
who's through a revolving book, someone has taken them to court.
And when they've got bail, someone's been at that court
to take them somewhere else. Okay, so it was this
fifteen year old, she got bail. Someone took that kid
to court because that kid wouldn't have got any bloody

(28:27):
idea of where they need to go. So there is
someone around that kid looking after them in some shape
or form or a bit badly.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
So you know, well, I think a lot of the
questions are being asked to now about what constitutes are
responsible And I don't know whether I think police are
almost doing this to make a point, but police press
releases are now saying, you know, such and such, you're
committed this such and such alleged crime has been returned
to the care of a responsible adult.

Speaker 7 (28:54):
Well, how on earth was the.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
Eleven year old kid, or in one case last week,
the seven year old kid? You know out wandering the
streets at two o'clock in the morning, committing crime if
they were in the care of a responsible adult, that's.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
The question people are asking now. I do want to
point out that also this weekend marks the one year
anniversary of the loss of Deckland Lavity and a memorial
walk is being held this weekend to honor Deckland Lavity,
a year on after he was allegedly murdered while working
at the Darwin Airport Tavern bottle shop. We are going
to speak to his mum this morning after ten o'clock,

(29:28):
just before eleven o'clock. But I tell you what to
think that one year on and this situation with crime
across the board really has not improved. It's pretty heartbreaking
I think for the Northern Territory, and that's how people
are feeling. They're at a loss, they're feeling a bit broken.
Like you said, Matt, you know for your family this
week to be having a conversation about whether you stay

(29:48):
and continue to raise your children here. It's a conversation
that's been had in my house as well. I know
that it's a conversation that's been had I'm sure by
a lot of Territorians and it actually upsets me to
even say that, because I want to raise my kids here.
I want my kids to be able to stay and
be good little Territorians and to help, you know, to

(30:10):
help this place down the track, to be teachers, you know,
to be nurses, to be whatever they choose to be,
but to be able to stay living here in the
Northern Territory. But there needs to be rules across the
board for everybody. Doesn't matter where you come from, doesn't
matter how you've grown up. Everybody needs to follow the law. Anyway,
let's move on. We'll take a bit of a break

(30:31):
and when we come back, there's still a lot to discuss,
including the fact that the Ikak have said that they're
not able to access cabinet documents. In the studio this morning,
we've got Matt cunning Have, Selina Rubo, Keezy Apuric and
Joshua Burgoyne, and the Northern Territory i CAC has revealed
that it's been unable to investigate allegations of conflicts of
interest on four occasions as requests to access cabinet documents

(30:55):
were denied by the Northern Territory government. The Commissioner Michael
Riches said he'd doesn't have the power to force the
government to hand over cabinet transcripts under the legislation and
is at the government's mercy now. The icac's latest report
was tabled in Parliament this week. Mister Richards also said
a lack of resources had resulted in three of his

(31:15):
investigations being abandoned. What do you make of it?

Speaker 6 (31:18):
All?

Speaker 4 (31:19):
This has set the standard, hasn't it. I guess Labor
have basically said we'll set up the IKAC office. It
can investigate cases are wrongdoing, but yeah, when it comes
to us look the other way. So, I mean, you
know they've hamstrung the office. They've basically said, yeah, nothing
to see here. But at the reality, there have been
a lot of people that have been impacted negatively by
decisions that have been made by this government. Nowhere more

(31:40):
than in my hometown of Alla Springs, where we had
the Attorney General basically invested in a company that distributed
alcohol made changes so basically the rivers of grog float
throughout our town. Hundreds, if not thousands of people were
affected by domestic violence as a result. God knows how
many people in our impact did Yet absolutely look there's

(32:02):
nothing to see here. Yes, I invested in some shares,
Did I? Did I not disclose that? Was I actually
taking part in meetings around those decisions? Will never know
because basically we've got the Chief Minister saying I can't
even remember him ever say anything about it, and then
the Attorney General saying, I know I definitely disclosed everything.
Don't worry. I'm the good bloke. You can trust me
when I'm sorry.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
But territory, what he said to Katie, I think was
that he wouldn't discuss it what had happened in cabinet
because it was subject to cabinet competentiality. I guess my
question for you, though, Josh, is whether the CLP will
reverse this, will change legislation if it wins government to
allow the IKAK to have those cabinet documents.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
I don't think it's about legislation.

Speaker 6 (32:41):
It's about if there is something answer the question Josh.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
We are looking at right now and what has been
what has been asked Selena is that was was this
disclosed because the reality of this chance, Josh chance he
disclosed at the beginning of the meeting. Did he do
what awast be interesting when you're saying you're sitting here,
you're a minister, you are there, and that's the question.

Speaker 6 (33:07):
Here has been in government and the tradition of cabinet
and the protections under cabinet is something that you haven't
been able to.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Protected.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
No, just relaxed because we're not talking about when we're
talking about what cabinet ministers have a responsibility to do.
We take an open an affirmation, so yes, we are
absolutely bound by the highest level of responsibility as ministers
of the crown. We take that if we take that affirmation,
if we do not do our job, Josh, we can

(33:41):
be prosecuted through that lens.

Speaker 5 (33:48):
Question.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
People are talking about the ie cap and the question
that has put around the processes and the powers that Now.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Then can the i cack actually do his job If
they can't even get the minutes at the start, that
basically says whether chancey you know, like whether he did
disclose or not at the beginning of the meeting.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
They can expect the iq Act and they can't think documents.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
They can't get the cabinet documents. So unless you guys
choose to release them.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
If the IKAK is doing an investigation into potential conflict
of just let's say it's Chancey paper if so, I
think remember for Alwin referred to him like she refers
to everyone else to IKK. So why doesn't the talk
to Chancey Paik directly?

Speaker 5 (34:33):
She calls because he calls Chancey pake In and says, Chancey,
did you declare?

Speaker 3 (34:37):
He says, I can't reveal.

Speaker 7 (34:38):
He says I can't because it's a cabinet in and
the question doesn't get euly.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
It's not the end of story, though, is it? You know,
Like that's the thing where people are still going, We'll
hang on a second. Did this like was this the
right you know? Was did he do the right thing?
And and when you've then got a whole body that's
in place, that is the ikag where every other Northern
territory and has to be held to a standard where
they do release all of that information. But then you've

(35:08):
got cabinet ministers who are elected by the people of
the Northern Territory that aren't expected to do the same thing.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Not only do they release the information, they have their
phone searched and seized, they have their phone calls, emails,
So there's their conversations secretly and covertly recorded all of
those things that have applied to people often who aren't
even in decision making roles. On your lorimer, I mean,
why would you secretly record nure Lorimer when what I mean,

(35:35):
for what God's good name, But the government was more
than happy for that to happen. They did absolutely sweet
fa about the fact that that happened. And yet when
it comes to their own scrutiny, nothing to see here.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
A question.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
The question I would pose is, let's say, hypothetically speaking,
there was a conflict of interest and chancy Pate didn't
reveal it to his colleagues, so he was remiss in
a particular duty. Then what what's I going to find?
Then it's let's say that he had a conflict of
interest and he didn't reveal it to his parliamentary, comic
post cabinet colleagues.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, you would hope, you would hope that his colleagues
would then say, this person is en up to the
standard that he needs to be to be able to
hold onto his job.

Speaker 7 (36:16):
Of course, his colleagues already know the answer to that question, Katie.
That's the other thing. They know the answer. Selena knows
the answer.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
She was in cabinet that entire time, but they're using
cabinet confidentiality as an excuse not to answer the question
that would decide whether there has been a serious breach
of the Ministerial Code of Conduct, Katie.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
When we're talking about corruption, we're talking about doing the
wrong thing to get a personal benefit. That's really what
the standard is. So if we're talking about corruption, that's
what it is. So there are the processes through the act.
We were the government, the territory lab of Government was
the one who brought the Aykak into effect.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
But when we're talking about corruption, it's benefiting personally and.

Speaker 7 (36:57):
Intent defending personally.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
And he bought shares in the company, and then he's
in the cabinet where you're making a decision about that
that could have the potential to increase the value of
those shares. Does that not meet the criteria that you've
just set.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
Out, Matt, I think you're going to something that obviously
has been addressed, and we know in terms of the
conversations that chance he has has and the questions that
he has he has answered. When we're talking about to
the level of what Josh is explaining, it becomes we
just want to know what's continet.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
And that's because we keep saying.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
Fell on his sword over a personal benefit, which is
what corruption is.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
So but the thing is Barrio O'Farrell in New South
Wales fell on his sword over a bottle of wine. Right,
So you've got a situation where where what is considered
the level of like what's the threshold?

Speaker 5 (37:51):
You know?

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Do we go all right, well, oh, okay, well it's
okay if you do something as long as it's under
a one thousand bucks, do you know what I mean?
Like people are kind of going, well, hang on a sec.
What's the threshold here? What's considered appropriate and what's not
considered appropriate, and what's considered appropriate behavior or appropriate investments
of what you would anticipate from from ministers, And that's
really or from any member of parliament, any member of parliament.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
I listen and I hear you saying, and I accept
and acknowledge the concerns and the anger that's out there
in the community, because I've had people comment to me
as well. But I've also had a big group of
people cohort and people come to me and say this
is bullshit. Just get on and govern and sort out
our problems. You know, whether it be Ren Potters shares
or Chances or Natasha's shares or whatever, they are just

(38:38):
they just they're just over it.

Speaker 7 (38:40):
And this goes to the inegrity of the government.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
And now this is a government that sixteen of chaos
lost a thirty six page document about how great they
were going to be.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Every people are still I get all that, and so
to a lot of people. But people are just fed
up with politicians banging on about other politicians.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
They want problems, so they want the crime sorted out
for a start. I'll get it.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
There's serious issues, but I think holding knives of women
old women's throats is a far more serious issue on
than whether Chancey declared a conflict of industry.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
If decisions are being made around alcohol policy that affect
the entire Northern Territory in regards to these things, people
need to know about it, and I think that's what
it comes back to.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Look, I do want to move along quickly because this
is an interesting story that was reported by the ABC
a little bit earlier in the week. ABC News. One
of the most powerful trade unions is withdrawing its support
for the Labor Party ahead of the Northern territory election. Now,
the CFMU is normally one of Labour's biggest backers, particularly
in remote areas, having contributed almost twelve thousand dollars to

(39:44):
the party's last campaign in twenty twenty. That's according to
the ABC. But things soured after the Queensland and nt
Secretary met with the Chief Minister recently to discuss training
initiatives for Indigenous people, supporting women in construction and procurement
for local jobs, and a review of NTI work Safe.
Now Union boss Michael Rabbar told the ABC that Eva

(40:06):
Laula wasn't interested in those issues, had no vision, lacked
policy and was leading the party into oblivion. Now part
of me thinks, good on Eva for standing up to
the unions.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
You've said something else, Katie, he also said, and I've
got the quote down here. I've dealt with a lot
of leaders over the years in politics. She's the worst
by far.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
So I think that is a very very non territory
in view of the terror Seriously, I mean, what a nonsense, what.

Speaker 7 (40:35):
Nonsense, Katie.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
This is joking over here.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
This has been the biggest dummy spit I've ever seen
and one of the.

Speaker 7 (40:44):
Biggest eleven thousand dollars. Yeah, I mean they would have
raised Buddy twenty times.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
The Queensland Sea if you fellow, we'll look after.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Is it going to make any kind of difference the
plavor Park to go out.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Into the book stand on the polls and do all
this come election time. So if they're not going to
be there.

Speaker 7 (41:04):
That is that's true.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
That's the big impact it could have, is that that
army of red Shirts that they have on the ground
might not be there.

Speaker 6 (41:11):
But look, Katie, I think Chief Minister Eva Lawla spoke
very strongly she is not going to be held for
ransom from anyone, especially not a Queenslander.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
She is born. It would have gone further if you said,
not by a Unionist.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
That she is a tough territory born and bred leader.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
And she's said, you know today, last week, this week
in parliament, you know, born here, living here and will
die here. And I think people absolutely respect he doesn't
matter what side of politics they are.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
You get with Eva.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
What you get with Eva is a straight talker and
a chief minister who will lead us into the next election.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
I wonder if he's called it Johnny come lately and
we've seen a lot of those in the territory. Haven't
we met.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
Yes, we've seen a few of those.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
I agree with what Selena is saying about Eva all
of being a straight talker, and I think that you know,
to be perfectly frank, I think that most of what
she said since she became Chief Minister, and the policy
setting that she's trying to put us on in many
areas is on the right track. I think she's right
when she says we need to get more everyone needs
to be working, and I think that's the biggest problem

(42:18):
that we're facing here. But I do think this blow
up does show one thing, and that is that the
internal ructions within labor are still existing after the leadership
battle following Natasha Files's red That's what you're seeing.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Will there'd be further unions come out and not support
the labor government, like does even not have the support there?
And how will that effect labor going for because we
know that they've been supported by these unions for a
long time. This is how they get all their red
shirts out in the ground. What's going to happen come
Will we have further unions come out and say we're
throwing our support.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Hey, Josh has Leah, your leader put up her picked
up the phone to talk to this question and help you.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Leah asked the question in Parliament was one of her
first questions.

Speaker 6 (43:00):
I thought it was very strange for a country Liberal
opposition leader to ask a question.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
About a union and a union comment was very very odd.

Speaker 6 (43:08):
But anyway, but Katie, in terms of the Bush, we
know that as Territory Labor government, we absolutely support the Bush.
That is the big difference. It's great when we do
have our union friends and our comrades helping us. We
absolutely acknowledge that help in election time. But when it
comes down to it, under evil LAWLA and our Territory
Labor government, we are a party and a team that

(43:29):
govern for Territorians, by Territorians, and not outside Queenland.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Well, look, we are going to have to take a
short break. You are listening to Mix one O four
nine's three sixty Goodness, we're all a bit carried away
in the break there. It is only a couple of
minutes away from ten o'clock, so we don't have time
to talk about too much else. But I tell you what,
it has been a massive week and no doubt going
to be a very busy weekend. It's a futy finals time,

(43:53):
there's the Anti Swimming Championships on. There is a lot
going on, and we're also waiting to see if a
cyclone is on us. Yeah, so it's all go this weekend.
But yeah, that's pretty much it for us this morning.
Josh Burgoyne here from Alice Springs. Mate, thank you so
much for your time, And I do want to just
point out that I know there is some concerning Alice
at the moment about the palis not outside the bottle

(44:15):
shops as well, or certainly the fact that they are
fast tracking through to become constables. That's a good move,
but really people quite worried about the fact that they're
no longer outside the bottle shops.

Speaker 4 (44:26):
Yeah, it's important for people to understand. With the restricted
areas we have in Alice, those police officers ensure that
if you're buying alcohol, you're not taking it back to
a restricted area Without them there, it means that people
can buy our coal and take them back to those
restricted areas. So it's a really important part of the
function of the system we have down Alis and without it,
where operators are hurting at the moment.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, it's tough. It is tough in that way. Well, Josh,
thanks so much for being here this morning. Really appreciate it. Keisie,
if you're at the Independent Member for Goider, thank you Katie. Ca.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Do you also want us to do a shout out
on Sunday there's a Black Dog ride bikes from I'm
not sure where they start, but they end at the
Nunamar Pub on Sunday, so the rides in the morning. Sadly,
over the last month in my elect I've lost two
fellows down the Elizabeth Valley Way, so this is timely
for you fellows and any men listening out there. If

(45:17):
you've got some issues that you know, just please talk
to someone. I even come to my office and I'll
help you. So it was very sad we lost both
jim and and Stevens. So if anyone can support the
Black Dog Ride or wants to take their bike for
a run, come down.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
I've got it starting at the Beachfront Hotel there.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, good stuff and a really really good course, a
really good thing to do. Selena who both thank you
so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Thank you Katie, and a big shout out to my crew.
My electorate.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
I only have two communities out of my seventeen that
I can actually access by road because of all the
rain that we're getting, which is fantastic. We're getting a
fantastic wet season. But if it's flooded, please forget it.
Do not cross our flooded rows. We don't want any
of our territories or visitors to the territory in trouble.
And we know our emergency responders, our first responders, also
put themselves at risk if people make those silly decisions.

(46:06):
So if it's flooded, please forget it and stay safe
on our road, especially in the wet season.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
None of those communities by this time next week, if
the forecast tracking map is right.

Speaker 6 (46:14):
I mean the goal is my you know, out to
Nimboe and Gride Island. That's all in my elector to Arnhem.
So I watched the weather very closely and the emergency response,
and I know we've got some almost like advanced teams
Katie that go into my electorate and sort out that
local emergency management committee.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
So thank you to all those workers.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
There's volunteers, but public servants who do get themselves in
that position to make sure other territories are safe absolutely.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you for your time
this morning, mate.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
Thanks wol for and I would like to give a
big shout out to Sergeant Chris Humphreys and Constable Mlac
from Anti Police who were to us this week.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, good on them. Legends, absolute legends, working incredibly hard
our Northern Territory police