Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as we mentioned earlier, we know that the Northern
Territory AKAC Commissioner has released a report. It was tabled
in Parliament overnight. The report has made, as I understand,
no adverse findings, so it's basically no adverse findings and
said that he would hand down another report relating to
the political activities in the Chief Minister's office during the
(00:21):
twenty twenty election by the thirtieth of June. But we've
really been asking the question this morning. I mean, does
it pass the pub test that we know that in
the leading to the twenty twenty election, members of staff
of the Office of the Chief Minister, as well as
the Chief Minister and in some cases family members had
traveled to Nayu on the fourteenth of August, Galliwinku on
(00:42):
the eighteenth of August, and what air on the nineteenth
of August out to those remote communities on polling days
they say or the Chief Minister of the day, Michael Gunner,
had said that the purpose of that attendance at those
locations was said to be for community engaged. But you know,
let's be really blunt about this. It's on the taxpayer's dime.
(01:04):
During caretaker mode. So does it pass the pub test?
I mean, I would suggest not joining me on the
line right now is the Independent member for our lun
Robin Lamley. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Robin, Good morning Katie, Robin.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Does it pass the pub test?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Absolutely not, Katie, This is fascical. You know, all those
three Aboriginal communities that Gunna went to during the caretaker
period on chartered planes paid for by you, the territory taxpayer,
they were all marginal feats too, So this is no
coincidence there. There's no such thing as a coincidence in politics,
(01:39):
and you're right during the caretaker period you don't. Ministers
are restricted, absolutely restricted in what they do to essential work.
Only community engagement, I'm afraid doesn't fit that criteria. So
even in the IKAK Commissioner's report that was tabled in
Parliament last night lines all the evidence or a lot
(02:02):
of the evidence that absolutely suggests and proves that what
Gunner did was wrong. Yes, he makes no determination. This
is a two and a half year wait for a
report that makes no determination. In fact, it says I
have not made any findings in respective, mister Gunner. So
(02:27):
two and a half years for nothing, Katie.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Robin, should there be rules in place, and tighter rules
in place where parties cannot use taxpayer funds to travel
or the government of the day cannot use taxpayer funds
to travel to remote communities or any you know, like
to take any kind of travel during campaigning.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, of course there should be, and a part of
this report he makes seven recommendations pretty much to that effect,
calling on the goodwill of ministers and members of Parliament
and their staff to provide greater transparency and accountability about
exactly what they do and the resources they use sixty
(03:08):
days out from the next election, which is good advice,
but there's no compulsion for any of us to do it.
I mean, it's it's not a part of any sort
of mandated or legal requirement. Look, Katie, this is an
integrity issue again. We're talking about misconduct. We're talking about
probably corruption using public money to benefit the Northern Territory
(03:32):
Labor Party. That's what this story is about. He's been
caught out. The KAK Commissioner has, as I said before,
included in this report all the evidence that absolutely points
to the fact that Gunner was in the wrong. In fact,
i'll quote the IKA confirmed these trips were quote planned
(03:53):
to coincide with the opening of remote polling boosts. There's
all this evidence within the report that directly points the
finger at Gunner and his staff for misusing public fund
and yet the Commissioner decides there will be no determination,
no findings against the Chief Minister. Work that out, Katie,
(04:15):
it doesn't make sense and to be honest, it is
very disappointing. I think that it brings in to question
why do we have an eyekac at all?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Robin. I know that Michael Gunner has issued a statement
to other media outlets. He hasn't sent one to me,
but it does in this statement that other media outlets
are running, he said. The report tabled in the Parliament
makes no adverse findings. It does include recommendations to give
greater clarity around how travel and engagement with territorians, especially
in remote areas, should occur. Direct engagement is essential in
(04:49):
a healthy democracy. This is a constant challenge in the
territory and we are home to the most vulnerable people
in Australia living in the most remote locations. They deserve
to be heard just like everyone else, he said. While
discussion and debate about these recommendations is best left to
serving parliamentarians. I do agree that greater clarity around guidelines
(05:09):
is a good thing. I wish the Parliament all the
best as they consider and implement reforms for the future.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh, completely offensive, He's lying through his teeth. Look, Katie,
this guy, in the lead up to the twenty twenty
election had been a member of the Legislative Assembly, a politician,
a member of Parliament for twelve years, four of those
he was the Chief Minister. He knows right from wrong,
you know. A part of this report, the commissioner goes
(05:38):
on about the distinction between political activity and public or
official duties, and the fact that there's some sort of
misunderstanding or lack of clarity around the difference between the two.
What a load of rubbish. I mean, Gunner twelve years
as a member of Parliament, multiple campaigns he's been involved in.
(06:02):
The commissioners giving him the benefit of the doubt, saying, oh,
poor Michael Gunner might not have realized that turning up
to a polling booth in the middle in an Aboriginal
community on polling day isn't official duty, particularly during the
caretaker period. That's called political activity. Look, this is a
fast Katie. It's so disappointing. It's such a waste of
(06:24):
time that we've waited for this report to come about.
I would even go as far to suggest that the
ik Commissioner has taken his time to work out how
he can get out of actually pointing the finger and
holding Gunner to account. He's nervous, he's reticent. He's reluctant
(06:46):
to hold this former chief minister to account for what
is misappropriation. I believe of taxpayers funds used for the
Labor Party to campaign in Whateir and go Galliwinku and
the other community.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well, you would hope not, you would hope not. On
the Ikak Commissioner's partner, I know he's got this second
round of you know, like the second report to come out,
So I guess there's still the opportunity for there to
be sort of further recommendations. I'm assuming Robin in that second.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Report, Katie, that second report, we'll only go to the
current Chief Minister in June, so we may never see
the content of that report. In fact, he gives an
extensive rationale for why he's decided to give it only
to the current Labor Chief Minister of the Northern Territory
and no one else. So look, I just feel completely
(07:40):
demoralized and disappointed by this. I know it's a difficult
job he has. I know that he's probably done his best.
It's an extensive report, it's complicated, it's contentious, it's controversial,
but the AKAK is there to identify misconduct, mismanagement and corruption.
(08:02):
It is there to help us to provide good governance
to the Northern Territory, and I believed, I believe IKAK
has failed yet again, Robin.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
In terms of where to from here, there is obviously,
you know, not in the current not with the current
parliamentary makeup. By the look of it, we're probably going
to have to wait, I'm assuming now until after the
next election. But is there is there, you know, different
things that we can actually do to ensure that this
doesn't happen again. Could there be more rules put in place,
(08:36):
more stringent processes to ensure that this doesn't happen again,
that taxpayers money is not used for any kind of
flights during that campaign period.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, of course, you know, we could legislate the recommendations
that he's put in his report and that's probably a
good thing, but we will not be able to do
that before the twenty twenty four election unless we recall
Parliament and have a lengthy debate and legislation put before
the Parliament. Look, this is a good will issue, it's
an integrity issue. If you can't trust your Northern Territory
(09:12):
government ministers not to do this, then please don't vote
for them again because this is wrong. As you say,
we shouldn't have to legislate at this point to stop
ministers like the former Chief Minister Michael Gunner doing this
and his staff who should have known better, who did
know better, but chose to put their own political interests
(09:33):
above what is right for the Northern Territory. It's just
such a perfect case of what I believe, what I
allege is misconduct at the very least, in corruption at
the worst.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Well, Robin Lanley, I really appreciate your time this morning.
I've no doubt it's going to be a fir in
the interesting day in Parliament. I would hope that this
is really you know that it is going to continue
to be focused on. We're eleven billion dollars in debt
and I know that we weren't at the time of
these flights. But gee whiz, there's some money being wasted.
And the last thing that should be happening is money
being wasted in the lead into an election on what
(10:13):
many would see as as Paul.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Barreling Well Katie the Northern Territory Labor Party. Now, oh,
the people of the Northern Territory around forty thousand dollars
for the charter flights that they use to attend the
polling booths at these three Aboriginal communities back in August
twenty twenty. Will you ever see that money repaid? Not
(10:38):
on your life? And the Aikak Commissioner had a perfect
opportunity to call it out and make them do the
right thing, and he squandered that. And I really don't
understand why. So I'm calling on the next Chief Minister
of the Northern Territory. I won't bother doing it now
because it would be a complete waste of time to
undertake an inquiry into Kak. It needs to be restructured,
(11:01):
it needs the business of ik needs to be done differently.
I think we've got enough evidence now to say that
it's a flop, it's failed, It's not working the way
it should to maintained integrity and good governance of the
Northern Territory, and we need to find a better way
of doing it well.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Robin Lamley, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you
very much for having a chat with us.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Thanks Katie, thank you
Now, as we mentioned earlier, we know that the Northern
Territory AKAC Commissioner has released a report. It was tabled
in Parliament overnight. The report has made, as I understand,
no adverse findings, so it's basically no adverse findings and
said that he would hand down another report relating to
the political activities in the Chief Minister's office during the
(00:21):
twenty twenty election by the thirtieth of June. But we've
really been asking the question this morning. I mean, does
it pass the pub test that we know that in
the leading to the twenty twenty election, members of staff
of the Office of the Chief Minister, as well as
the Chief Minister and in some cases family members had
traveled to Nayu on the fourteenth of August, Galliwinku on
(00:42):
the eighteenth of August, and what air on the nineteenth
of August out to those remote communities on polling days
they say or the Chief Minister of the day, Michael Gunner,
had said that the purpose of that attendance at those
locations was said to be for community engaged. But you know,
let's be really blunt about this. It's on the taxpayer's dime.
(01:04):
During caretaker mode. So does it pass the pub test?
I mean, I would suggest not joining me on the
line right now is the Independent member for our lun
Robin Lamley. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Robin, Good morning Katie, Robin.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Does it pass the pub test?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Absolutely not, Katie, This is fascical. You know, all those
three Aboriginal communities that Gunna went to during the caretaker
period on chartered planes paid for by you, the territory taxpayer,
they were all marginal feats too, So this is no
coincidence there. There's no such thing as a coincidence in politics,
(01:39):
and you're right during the caretaker period you don't. Ministers
are restricted, absolutely restricted in what they do to essential work.
Only community engagement, I'm afraid doesn't fit that criteria. So
even in the IKAK Commissioner's report that was tabled in
Parliament last night lines all the evidence or a lot
(02:02):
of the evidence that absolutely suggests and proves that what
Gunner did was wrong. Yes, he makes no determination. This
is a two and a half year wait for a
report that makes no determination. In fact, it says I
have not made any findings in respective, mister Gunner. So
(02:27):
two and a half years for nothing, Katie.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Robin, should there be rules in place, and tighter rules
in place where parties cannot use taxpayer funds to travel
or the government of the day cannot use taxpayer funds
to travel to remote communities or any you know, like
to take any kind of travel during campaigning.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, of course there should be, and a part of
this report he makes seven recommendations pretty much to that effect,
calling on the goodwill of ministers and members of Parliament
and their staff to provide greater transparency and accountability about
exactly what they do and the resources they use sixty
(03:08):
days out from the next election, which is good advice,
but there's no compulsion for any of us to do it.
I mean, it's it's not a part of any sort
of mandated or legal requirement. Look, Katie, this is an
integrity issue again. We're talking about misconduct. We're talking about
probably corruption using public money to benefit the Northern Territory
(03:32):
Labor Party. That's what this story is about. He's been
caught out. The KAK Commissioner has, as I said before,
included in this report all the evidence that absolutely points
to the fact that Gunner was in the wrong. In fact,
i'll quote the IKA confirmed these trips were quote planned
(03:53):
to coincide with the opening of remote polling boosts. There's
all this evidence within the report that directly points the
finger at Gunner and his staff for misusing public fund
and yet the Commissioner decides there will be no determination,
no findings against the Chief Minister. Work that out, Katie,
(04:15):
it doesn't make sense and to be honest, it is
very disappointing. I think that it brings in to question
why do we have an eyekac at all?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Robin. I know that Michael Gunner has issued a statement
to other media outlets. He hasn't sent one to me,
but it does in this statement that other media outlets
are running, he said. The report tabled in the Parliament
makes no adverse findings. It does include recommendations to give
greater clarity around how travel and engagement with territorians, especially
in remote areas, should occur. Direct engagement is essential in
(04:49):
a healthy democracy. This is a constant challenge in the
territory and we are home to the most vulnerable people
in Australia living in the most remote locations. They deserve
to be heard just like everyone else, he said. While
discussion and debate about these recommendations is best left to
serving parliamentarians. I do agree that greater clarity around guidelines
(05:09):
is a good thing. I wish the Parliament all the
best as they consider and implement reforms for the future.
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh, completely offensive, He's lying through his teeth. Look, Katie,
this guy, in the lead up to the twenty twenty
election had been a member of the Legislative Assembly, a politician,
a member of Parliament for twelve years, four of those
he was the Chief Minister. He knows right from wrong,
you know. A part of this report, the commissioner goes
(05:38):
on about the distinction between political activity and public or
official duties, and the fact that there's some sort of
misunderstanding or lack of clarity around the difference between the two.
What a load of rubbish. I mean, Gunner twelve years
as a member of Parliament, multiple campaigns he's been involved in.
(06:02):
The commissioners giving him the benefit of the doubt, saying, oh,
poor Michael Gunner might not have realized that turning up
to a polling booth in the middle in an Aboriginal
community on polling day isn't official duty, particularly during the
caretaker period. That's called political activity. Look, this is a
fast Katie. It's so disappointing. It's such a waste of
(06:24):
time that we've waited for this report to come about.
I would even go as far to suggest that the
ik Commissioner has taken his time to work out how
he can get out of actually pointing the finger and
holding Gunner to account. He's nervous, he's reticent. He's reluctant
(06:46):
to hold this former chief minister to account for what
is misappropriation. I believe of taxpayers funds used for the
Labor Party to campaign in Whateir and go Galliwinku and
the other community.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well, you would hope not, you would hope not. On
the Ikak Commissioner's partner, I know he's got this second
round of you know, like the second report to come out,
So I guess there's still the opportunity for there to
be sort of further recommendations. I'm assuming Robin in that second.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Report, Katie, that second report, we'll only go to the
current Chief Minister in June, so we may never see
the content of that report. In fact, he gives an
extensive rationale for why he's decided to give it only
to the current Labor Chief Minister of the Northern Territory
and no one else. So look, I just feel completely
(07:40):
demoralized and disappointed by this. I know it's a difficult
job he has. I know that he's probably done his best.
It's an extensive report, it's complicated, it's contentious, it's controversial,
but the AKAK is there to identify misconduct, mismanagement and corruption.
(08:02):
It is there to help us to provide good governance
to the Northern Territory, and I believed, I believe IKAK
has failed yet again, Robin.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
In terms of where to from here, there is obviously,
you know, not in the current not with the current
parliamentary makeup. By the look of it, we're probably going
to have to wait, I'm assuming now until after the
next election. But is there is there, you know, different
things that we can actually do to ensure that this
doesn't happen again. Could there be more rules put in place,
(08:36):
more stringent processes to ensure that this doesn't happen again,
that taxpayers money is not used for any kind of
flights during that campaign period.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Well, of course, you know, we could legislate the recommendations
that he's put in his report and that's probably a
good thing, but we will not be able to do
that before the twenty twenty four election unless we recall
Parliament and have a lengthy debate and legislation put before
the Parliament. Look, this is a good will issue, it's
an integrity issue. If you can't trust your Northern Territory
(09:12):
government ministers not to do this, then please don't vote
for them again because this is wrong. As you say,
we shouldn't have to legislate at this point to stop
ministers like the former Chief Minister Michael Gunner doing this
and his staff who should have known better, who did
know better, but chose to put their own political interests
(09:33):
above what is right for the Northern Territory. It's just
such a perfect case of what I believe, what I
allege is misconduct at the very least, in corruption at
the worst.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Well, Robin Lanley, I really appreciate your time this morning.
I've no doubt it's going to be a fir in
the interesting day in Parliament. I would hope that this
is really you know that it is going to continue
to be focused on. We're eleven billion dollars in debt
and I know that we weren't at the time of
these flights. But gee whiz, there's some money being wasted.
And the last thing that should be happening is money
being wasted in the lead into an election on what
(10:13):
many would see as as Paul.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Barreling Well Katie the Northern Territory Labor Party. Now, oh,
the people of the Northern Territory around forty thousand dollars
for the charter flights that they use to attend the
polling booths at these three Aboriginal communities back in August
twenty twenty. Will you ever see that money repaid? Not
(10:38):
on your life? And the Aikak Commissioner had a perfect
opportunity to call it out and make them do the
right thing, and he squandered that. And I really don't
understand why. So I'm calling on the next Chief Minister
of the Northern Territory. I won't bother doing it now
because it would be a complete waste of time to
undertake an inquiry into Kak. It needs to be restructured,
(11:01):
it needs the business of ik needs to be done differently.
I think we've got enough evidence now to say that
it's a flop, it's failed, It's not working the way
it should to maintained integrity and good governance of the
Northern Territory, and we need to find a better way
of doing it well.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Robin Lamley, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you
very much for having a chat with us.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Thanks Katie, thank you
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