Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australian Senator just
Into Nampa jimper Price and Shadow Attorney General Senator Mikaylia Cash,
they've condemned the NAJA board for the appointment of mister
Hugh Woodbury as the chair despite knowing that he pleaded
guilty to domestic violence charges against his pregnant partner. Now,
you would have seen the Australian newspaper reporting earlier in
(00:22):
the week and certainly we have covered it off the
revelation with that revelation that was made earlier in the week,
and Jacenter Nampa jimper Price has said that the appointment
is unacceptable. She joins me on the line right now.
Good morning to your senator.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Good morning Katie, and good morning for the listener.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Now the Australian made these revelations earlier in the week.
It is absolutely shocking. What was your reaction to the report?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To be honest, I was almost in disbelief. I couldn't
believe that, you know, an organization that's tasked with upholding
justice for most vulnerable in the Northern Territory would make
a decision as detrimental as this one. I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You know, by the look of it, there is still
a lot of questions that remain unanswered by the board.
The board has now issued a statement. They've said that
they acknowledged the public interest in reports about the NAJA
chairman and a historic family related incident. They say at
the time of mister Woodbury's appointment, the board was aware
of the incident and that no conviction was recorded.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean, what do you make of that.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, it's fair enough that no conviction was recorded. It
doesn't take away from the fact that he had pled guilty,
that he had carried out what was reported. And you
know what's so disappointing, Katie, is the fact that the standard,
the standard that is being upheld. I don't know if
you could suggest being upheld, but there's a standard that's
(01:55):
being maintained from the board which isn't allowing for the
organization to progress forward, especially when they are responsible for
supporting again our most marginalized Indigenous Australians who experience the
highest rates of domestic and family violence. You know, it
seems to be an acceptance not just within the community
(02:18):
but also within community organizations. And you know, We're highlighting
this for years and years and years, and this seems
to be ongoing without this understanding that we cannot maintain
this level of standard. We have to lift it in
order to lift our marginalize.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So what needs to happen here, Senator, what do you
think needs to happen? I mean, darwe embarrassed to John
Lawrence sc And he's a former principal solicitor for NAJA
and former head of the Anti Criminal Lawyers Associations, told
Sky News that the board needs to be removed.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Look, absolutely, I agree if they want to continue to
make such destructive decisions as this, and they aren't making
the appropriate decisions that are required, and yes they should
be removed so that this organization can either move forward
or you know, in consideration to it being dismantled altogether,
(03:13):
might have to come into play.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Well. To be honest, I can't even believe that we're
having to have this discussion, you know, like after reading
that report in the Australian newspaper, I'm quite astonished that
this person was appointed to that role in the first place.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, look, you wouldn't get it. You wouldn't get in
the private sector. You wouldn't get it, you know, in
any other sector, you'd hope where there's a service being
delivered to vulnerable Australians, it just should not happen. And
like you and like many others, it was a shock
(03:51):
to understand the circumstances around his appointment. But surely we've
got to do better than that. I mean, surely we
have to do better than that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I know that there's some there may be some people
listening this morning who are not one hundred percent sure
about what the allegation is. So for that reference, we
know that it was reported earlier in the week, as
I mentioned, by the Australian newspaper, the revelations that there
was a you know, that there was a serious domestic violence.
He pled guilty to serious domestic violence offenses. I mean
(04:23):
some of those, like some of what has been reported
is is horrifying. According to that report, assaulting his pregnant partner,
having stood on her stomach, pushed her to the ground,
slammed her arm in a door and yelled degrading slurs
at her in front of their two year old child.
That's according to that report in the Australian newspaper. What
(04:44):
needs to happen here urgently from your perspective, well, I.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Think mister Woodsbree needs to stand down as an immediate consequence,
that is definitely what needs to happen. I think we
need to emphasize the fact that perpetrators should get a
second chance, you know, to ensure that they don't do this,
behave in this way again, to turn their behavior around.
(05:10):
Most importantly, it's about protection of victims and vulnerable and
you can't get much more vulnerable than a pregnant woman
and a toddler, you know, to witness this sort of behavior,
it is unacceptable and again I agree, I think the
board needs to be stood down as well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Now I understand that you actually asked a number of
questions about the situation with NAGA during Senate estimates.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
What did you ask? What were you trying to get
to the bottom off?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So currently, this issue hadn't come to light before Senate estimates,
so I would have certainly asked questions around this particular issue.
But what we know is that because of nage's failures,
there have been up to about ninety unrepresented people since
October last year or thereabout who have faced court. Vulnerable
(06:06):
Indigenous Astralians, many whose second language you know well, whose
first language is not English, who have appeared unrepresented before
the court, a great number of those also being held
in remand and you know, this is just not good enough,
it's not acceptable. So if this organization can't get it
back together, and I've only been able to steal one
(06:28):
position out of seventeen in Alice Springs, so that vulnerable
people are going to walk in front of the court
are not being represented, then we need to absolutely consider
dismantling this organization.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
You know. And this is the thing, Senator, I think
you've made a really good point there is you're actually
talking about an organization that's very charter is to is
to represent marginalized and vulnerable people a lot in a
lot of cases, you know, like people, they need that support,
they need that help. So if they're not actually doing
what they are supposed to be doing in some instances
(07:01):
because you know, whatever reason, because of that, they're not
able to fill those jobs.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And we know the other history in.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Terms of you know the court case with the with
the former CEO and also with the with the chair.
So if they're not able to do that, I think
you know, there needs to be some serious decisions made.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Here, look absolutely, and the Attorney General Mark Drevis, needs
to come out and tell her if they have in
fact breached their funding agreement with the Commonwealth, and if so,
then that funding needs to be given to an organization.
And I know that they've been working with the Northern
Territory Legal Service here in Alice Springs, but if they're
(07:44):
providing that service now, well then perhaps they need to
continue to do so and the funding needs to be
redirected to an organization who is going to actually serve
those vulnerable Indigenous Australians going before the court.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Now we know as well that estimates here in the
Northern Territory continued today. Yesterday those hearings revealed that naja's
were fighting the government's attempt to recall two point six
nine million dollars in unspent funding, the Chief Executive of
the Attorney General and Justice Department, jemm Ala, telling the
Legislative Assembly that attempts to recover the money had dragged
on since February as NAJA disputed the amount. So look,
(08:25):
I don't know exactly where this is all going to land,
but what I worry about is you know what's sort
of happening in the meantime, and if we are in
a situation where as you pointed out before, you know,
where people aren't being represented and that the job that
they are obviously funded to do isn't happening.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, look, that's exactly right. And the board of NAJER
need to accept their ongoing failures. They need to do
the right thing by the community. They need to return
that funding and it needs to be provided. That funding
needs provided to service that can actually deliver for those
vulnerable individuals. This is an absolute train wreck. It has
(09:06):
been for some time now. It's not getting better. I
think they've demonstrated their failures over and over and over again.
And how long do we want to keep these failing
on life support? We should not be doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And look, look it does not seem by the statement
that they have issued over the last twenty four hours,
it does not seem that they have any real plans
to you to remove the chairman from that role, despite
you know, despite the information that's come to light.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, look, there's a whole lot of excuse making that's
gone on.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
There's lack of action, there's lack of acceptance of failure,
lack of the ability to actually come out and say
we've made the wrong decision here and there.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Can't be any more excuses for these failings over and
over again. You can come out with a statement trying
to trying to cover up and trying to lay in
a way of the situation, but it's just not good enough.
When you've got the highest rates of domestic and family
violence amongst Indigenous Australians right here in the Northern Territory
and somebody who has perpetrated that violence sitting in a
(10:14):
leadership position, it's completely and utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well just sint to Namba jimper Price, Senator for the
Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. Thank you very much
for having a chat with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Thanks for having me Katie.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Thank you
We know the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australian Senator just
Into Nampa jimper Price and Shadow Attorney General Senator Mikaylia Cash,
they've condemned the NAJA board for the appointment of mister
Hugh Woodbury as the chair despite knowing that he pleaded
guilty to domestic violence charges against his pregnant partner. Now,
you would have seen the Australian newspaper reporting earlier in
(00:22):
the week and certainly we have covered it off the
revelation with that revelation that was made earlier in the week,
and Jacenter Nampa jimper Price has said that the appointment
is unacceptable. She joins me on the line right now.
Good morning to your senator.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Good morning Katie, and good morning for the listener.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Now the Australian made these revelations earlier in the week.
It is absolutely shocking. What was your reaction to the report?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
To be honest, I was almost in disbelief. I couldn't
believe that, you know, an organization that's tasked with upholding
justice for most vulnerable in the Northern Territory would make
a decision as detrimental as this one. I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You know, by the look of it, there is still
a lot of questions that remain unanswered by the board.
The board has now issued a statement. They've said that
they acknowledged the public interest in reports about the NAJA
chairman and a historic family related incident. They say at
the time of mister Woodbury's appointment, the board was aware
of the incident and that no conviction was recorded.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean, what do you make of that.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, it's fair enough that no conviction was recorded. It
doesn't take away from the fact that he had pled guilty,
that he had carried out what was reported. And you
know what's so disappointing, Katie, is the fact that the standard,
the standard that is being upheld. I don't know if
you could suggest being upheld, but there's a standard that's
(01:55):
being maintained from the board which isn't allowing for the
organization to progress forward, especially when they are responsible for
supporting again our most marginalized Indigenous Australians who experience the
highest rates of domestic and family violence. You know, it
seems to be an acceptance not just within the community
(02:18):
but also within community organizations. And you know, We're highlighting
this for years and years and years, and this seems
to be ongoing without this understanding that we cannot maintain
this level of standard. We have to lift it in
order to lift our marginalize.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So what needs to happen here, Senator, what do you
think needs to happen? I mean, darwe embarrassed to John
Lawrence sc And he's a former principal solicitor for NAJA
and former head of the Anti Criminal Lawyers Associations, told
Sky News that the board needs to be removed.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Look, absolutely, I agree if they want to continue to
make such destructive decisions as this, and they aren't making
the appropriate decisions that are required, and yes they should
be removed so that this organization can either move forward
or you know, in consideration to it being dismantled altogether,
(03:13):
might have to come into play.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Well. To be honest, I can't even believe that we're
having to have this discussion, you know, like after reading
that report in the Australian newspaper, I'm quite astonished that
this person was appointed to that role in the first place.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, look, you wouldn't get it. You wouldn't get in
the private sector. You wouldn't get it, you know, in
any other sector, you'd hope where there's a service being
delivered to vulnerable Australians, it just should not happen. And
like you and like many others, it was a shock
(03:51):
to understand the circumstances around his appointment. But surely we've
got to do better than that. I mean, surely we
have to do better than that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I know that there's some there may be some people
listening this morning who are not one hundred percent sure
about what the allegation is. So for that reference, we
know that it was reported earlier in the week, as
I mentioned, by the Australian newspaper, the revelations that there
was a you know, that there was a serious domestic violence.
He pled guilty to serious domestic violence offenses. I mean
(04:23):
some of those, like some of what has been reported
is is horrifying. According to that report, assaulting his pregnant partner,
having stood on her stomach, pushed her to the ground,
slammed her arm in a door and yelled degrading slurs
at her in front of their two year old child.
That's according to that report in the Australian newspaper. What
(04:44):
needs to happen here urgently from your perspective, well, I.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Think mister Woodsbree needs to stand down as an immediate consequence,
that is definitely what needs to happen. I think we
need to emphasize the fact that perpetrators should get a
second chance, you know, to ensure that they don't do this,
behave in this way again, to turn their behavior around.
(05:10):
Most importantly, it's about protection of victims and vulnerable and
you can't get much more vulnerable than a pregnant woman
and a toddler, you know, to witness this sort of behavior,
it is unacceptable and again I agree, I think the
board needs to be stood down as well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Now I understand that you actually asked a number of
questions about the situation with NAGA during Senate estimates.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
What did you ask? What were you trying to get
to the bottom off?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So currently, this issue hadn't come to light before Senate estimates,
so I would have certainly asked questions around this particular issue.
But what we know is that because of nage's failures,
there have been up to about ninety unrepresented people since
October last year or thereabout who have faced court. Vulnerable
(06:06):
Indigenous Astralians, many whose second language you know well, whose
first language is not English, who have appeared unrepresented before
the court, a great number of those also being held
in remand and you know, this is just not good enough,
it's not acceptable. So if this organization can't get it
back together, and I've only been able to steal one
(06:28):
position out of seventeen in Alice Springs, so that vulnerable
people are going to walk in front of the court
are not being represented, then we need to absolutely consider
dismantling this organization.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
You know. And this is the thing, Senator, I think
you've made a really good point there is you're actually
talking about an organization that's very charter is to is
to represent marginalized and vulnerable people a lot in a
lot of cases, you know, like people, they need that support,
they need that help. So if they're not actually doing
what they are supposed to be doing in some instances
(07:01):
because you know, whatever reason, because of that, they're not
able to fill those jobs.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
And we know the other history in.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Terms of you know the court case with the with
the former CEO and also with the with the chair.
So if they're not able to do that, I think
you know, there needs to be some serious decisions made.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Here, look absolutely, and the Attorney General Mark Drevis, needs
to come out and tell her if they have in
fact breached their funding agreement with the Commonwealth, and if so,
then that funding needs to be given to an organization.
And I know that they've been working with the Northern
Territory Legal Service here in Alice Springs, but if they're
(07:44):
providing that service now, well then perhaps they need to
continue to do so and the funding needs to be
redirected to an organization who is going to actually serve
those vulnerable Indigenous Australians going before the court.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Now we know as well that estimates here in the
Northern Territory continued today. Yesterday those hearings revealed that naja's
were fighting the government's attempt to recall two point six
nine million dollars in unspent funding, the Chief Executive of
the Attorney General and Justice Department, jemm Ala, telling the
Legislative Assembly that attempts to recover the money had dragged
on since February as NAJA disputed the amount. So look,
(08:25):
I don't know exactly where this is all going to land,
but what I worry about is you know what's sort
of happening in the meantime, and if we are in
a situation where as you pointed out before, you know,
where people aren't being represented and that the job that
they are obviously funded to do isn't happening.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, look, that's exactly right. And the board of NAJER
need to accept their ongoing failures. They need to do
the right thing by the community. They need to return
that funding and it needs to be provided. That funding
needs provided to service that can actually deliver for those
vulnerable individuals. This is an absolute train wreck. It has
(09:06):
been for some time now. It's not getting better. I
think they've demonstrated their failures over and over and over again.
And how long do we want to keep these failing
on life support? We should not be doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And look, look it does not seem by the statement
that they have issued over the last twenty four hours,
it does not seem that they have any real plans
to you to remove the chairman from that role, despite
you know, despite the information that's come to light.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, look, there's a whole lot of excuse making that's
gone on.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
There's lack of action, there's lack of acceptance of failure,
lack of the ability to actually come out and say
we've made the wrong decision here and there.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Can't be any more excuses for these failings over and
over again. You can come out with a statement trying
to trying to cover up and trying to lay in
a way of the situation, but it's just not good enough.
When you've got the highest rates of domestic and family
violence amongst Indigenous Australians right here in the Northern Territory
and somebody who has perpetrated that violence sitting in a
(10:14):
leadership position, it's completely and utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well just sint to Namba jimper Price, Senator for the
Northern Territory. Always appreciate your time. Thank you very much
for having a chat with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Thanks for having me Katie.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Thank you
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